« Jocko Podcast

234: How to WIN Using Your Mind Rather Than Brute Force. Applying Couter-Insurgency to Life. FM 3-24

2020-06-17 | 🔗

0:00:00 - Opening.

0:09:39 - Counter Insurgency Manual. FM 3-24

1:50:57 - Final thoughts and take-aways.

1:55:35 - How to stay on THE PATH.

2:21:07 - Closing Gratitude.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is Jocapa gas number, two. Thirty, four with culture and me Jocker, willing good evening echo good evening so I was working with some echelon front clients. Yesterday talk about leadership and I was talking about. The minimum use of force. If you're that phrase before you have so we talk about it from sort of camp combativeness attack go perspective, but I was talking about it from a leadership perspective, meaning that you want to lead. You want to lead most of the time we a minimum use of force so I want to do as little as I can to make you do what I want you to do. That's that's a good We ve come to lead with. I was also thinking, and- and this is u my orange- if you're gonna find this funny, you might
I was thinking about leaders being luxuriate of yours. I used the term legit, I use more now you ve required. Have occurred at this end, and we know what it means right weed the term to mean, like that's, cool but a little bit stronger right means kind of approved, but then I was thinking about the only source of that word legitimate, because once again I was talking about leaders. Being legit and actually beyond that, beaters being legitimate leaders. Think about that right thing about the difference in your mind, when you think of a legitimate leader or some that's an illegitimate leader. There is a huge difference. Because, when a leader is viewed as a legitimate and are not respected there, not listen to if someone gets put new position.
Because they're the past his favorite or because they back stabbed someone to get into that to get that promotion they're not going be considered legitimate. A legitimate leader and that hurts their ability to lead. So, as I was thinking about these two things the minimum use of force and legitimacy, and I recognise both those files In my head from the Counter insurgency Manual FM three tat. Twenty four. Now. Here's a little history behind this manual win. I arrived in remedy, The others is that this is the manual that I read when I read Romani. So what happened? Was I The remedy I went to an Intel briefing during the tell briefing there. Is this massive link diagram of all these bad guys, a bunch? connect did how they were connected, who they are connected to some of the bad guys had little slot red sludge,
You may then be killed her a little green Sacho meant they ve been captured, but thing is this massive linked diagram. Didn't really look all that much different as the link diagram that I had left in Baghdad, two and a half years prior. So In my mind, I and realized wait a second if we're still doing the same thing and things don't Look all that different. This isn't good and well. It seems like we're lunatic so I don't know what necessarily thing triggered my brain to go and read. The counter insurgency. Men. I must have seen some. You know. I used to read all these and still do had read. You know these sort of. Military websites in you know military news in those kind of things and somewhere in there I had seen That this new- This new field, man, was coming out,
knew that this new field manual had been written by general fortress and general matters. Both those guys need no introduction. Both grab leaders very, very well known inside the military. When I was in an end now, both of them are well known. By the military and that reading that so I so I went and googled it on the regular internet. And so now this is like may This is may of two thousand and six. I'm trying to remember. I dont think I saw the whole completed manual, I think I saw a brood of either. I think I saw chapters of it and I did a little research and it turns out that they they did. They had sort of assembled the initial chapters and released them as quick as they could just to get, information out there. And when I read it it
police shaped away. I thought about the battle of remedy. It shaped the way that task unit bruiser could operate in the battle of Ramadi and we ended up shaping the way. I think about a lot of different things, about leadership and business and the teams and and life and so I actually dog around the internet- and I found one of these early versions. So when the virgins that I found this, it's it says on it FM three tat, twenty four in it. June two thousand six. That's when this. This is the final draft, so I think the thing I read was probably just a little bit earlier. Probably one of the few chapters release and also When I read that I read what I read and again, I wish I remembered it better. What I read. I read the whole thing:
when you see the whole manual, its two hundred and fifty pages and there's a lot of stuff that gets into stuff that wouldn't have been his person to where I was what I was doing, so I think I probably saw the first two or three chapters of this. And I absolutely know for a fact- I saw the first chapter, which is what I want to dive into today now this is this is this is what made me want to dive into his believe me. This is one of the first manuals that I wanted to cover. I said all your should cover the field. I should cover the counter. Insurgency feel that we should go redoubt. We here's the deal, it is a huge manual, And a lot of it digs into the weeds and kind of gets really granular on. You know how you do: logistics inside so there's a lot of really deep, not deep, not the right word, a lot of very tactical tat, needs that you're gonna use to make things happen inside of a counter insurgency, but
What I find fascinating about this is the way that it relates to? Absolutely everything is the we from a leadership perspective, especially from a wider perspective, because start thinking about things you should think about the way the world is formulated and if you, about it from the insurgency and a counter insurgency perspective. You start, to see things much clearer and the reason is because let's face it. If you, if you want to take a look at things, you say: oh war is comparable everything right. Everything is common, the war. Could is it I will say that ok well it's possible to say that. But if no include insurgency in that and counter insurgency in, that look. Or is not always especially in business, especially insight into inside of a business inside of a team really a war win,
you know I'm trying to get some of one of my support teams to do it. My other suborn team is doing they are giving me resistance, is that war is all out war. Not really. It's me like an insurgency and why I've gotta do I Just go to war with them. If I go to war with them, I want to destroy and that's the goal of war. Insurgency means I'm uniform relationships. I'm gonna bring people on board, I'm gonna get rid of them. That bad actors, like it's a totally different much more new wants thing that's what allows you when you can what we can look at things through the Prism of insurgency and counter insurgency. It gives It will give you some some visibility on how to handle situations, so It's really easy to say we are at war with our competitor. Ok, I get that We are at war with our competitor, weird go to war with our competitors. What are you gonna war with this other team.
But when you say hey, we ve got people inside of our own organization. That don't agree with what we're doing all of a sudden. It takes on a totally different meaning because you got a war with them. What do you do you destroy them? Can you can you effectively and per. We destroy on me the things that you want in a war, no warming, be collateral. Damage means people are going to eat. It's, it's not really, he think so, but in urgency and counter insurgency is more new wants to takes more you have to use a scalpel instead of using a battle axe right, that's what you're doing, and so, when you started seeing things as an insurgency and acting as if you're lies in counter insurgency procedures to try and solve that problem. It's a much more accurate way of saying hey.
Everything in life is comparable to war. Ok, Everything in life could be more. Maybe, but that's not what I'm saying what I'm saying is this allows you to make much better analogies like that? not saying is perfect, cannot say in everything in life is war. Now this allows you if there's a war analogy, if there's a war metaphor there. If there's, to be learned from war. You have to learn from the insurgency and counter insurgency mindset. So let's get into this is and I want to make sure that I I kind of points this stuff out as we go through, so forward. This manual is designed to fill a doctrinal gap between twenty years. It's a! U S. Army published a manual devoted to counter insurgency operations at twenty five, since their marine corps published its last may. You with our soldiers and Marines fighting insurgents in both Afghanistan and Iraq. It is thus a cent
that we give them a manual that provides principles and guidelines for Counter insurgency operations and they call that coin. Such and must be grounded historical studies. However, it must be informed by contemporary experiences. So, what's cool about this is and they d reference, the cow. Insurgency and the insurgency in Iraq in two thousand five like that's how up to date. This thing was and they were trying to get this information out there as quick as they could. This Your takes a general approach to coin the Army Marine Corps, recognise that every insurgency is contextual and presents its own set of challenges. So guess what every little disagreement that you have inside your team has its own little contextual. The things that are happening in its own set of challenges, so have to be able to adapt to that. You cannot fight. Former suddenness and islamic extremists the same way you would fight the Vietcong. The moral
which is a Philippine. Let's call surgeon group. Or the tube morrows, which was in Uruguay. The application principles and fundamental to deal with each vary considerably. When it goes on to say that nonetheless, there's common characteristics of insurgencies, it says a counter insurgency campaign is, as described in this manual, a mix of offence, defence and stability operations conducted along multiple lines of operations so that right there, if you take that thing right there into your mindset because if we just say we're going to war, what is Emmy, it means optimum. We were just going on offsets maybe we say we're going to offer its board have to go on different, sometimes, but then stability like what does that mean
I mean you're trying to keep this whole organization together. Right, you're, not work. You don't word about this, when I'm going to total war with echoes country, not worried about stability for you, I'm we're about just destroying you're goin off. It's me, and in conduct along multiple lines of operations. So It means there's all kinds, not just fighting: it's not just guns. You require soldiers marine through deploy, mix of both familiar com. Tasks and skills more often associated with non military agencies, with balance between depending on the local situation. This is not easy. Leaders at all levels must adjust their approach constantly ensuring that their elements are ready each day to be greeted with a handshake or a hand grenade. What? What does that do? Different howdy I mean just think you're going into a meeting you gotta, be ready to deal with a handshake, her hand, grenades
Would you gotta be ready for to take on missions only infrequently practised and two recent years at our combat training centres to be our nation nation builders, as well as warriors to help re establish institutions when local security forces to assist in the rebuilding of infrastructure, basic services and to facilitate the establishment of local governance and rule of law. That's what you throw military into all that stuff. That's why counterinsurgency so hard yet everything. I just said gonna wars like the easy part, here's the bad guys go, kill! That's the easy part everything else I just said: that's what makes it so complicated conducting a successful counter. Insurgency campaign Voss requires a flexible adaptive force. By agile, well formed culturally Stu leaders, Party, the opposite of what the stereo typical military personnel,
I hope that this manual provides the necessary guidelines to succeed in such a campaign in operations that inevitably are exceedingly difficult and complex. Our soldiers and Marines deserve nothing less in its side. David H portrays lieutenant general. U S Army and James and madness. Lieutenant general unites its marine corps, so there's your introduction right out of the gate you can see, would do something totally different infinitely more complex chapter one, and so the only jabber when a cupboard doing any, maybe they'll look legacy gets into some very grand your stuff. But this is such a good opening chapter one insurgency Counter insurgency counterinsurgency is not just think man's warfare. It's the graduate level of war, special forces officer in Iraq, two thousand five, and this is what,
What's really cool about this is the battle over body is seen as a model of counter insurgency, and I was lucky enough to be there at lucky enough to sit in Brigade Brigade borders and division of borders and to sit with the that the Britain indeed, commander and listen to what his thoughts were in here. What the input wasn't here I mean it was, I was so lucky to be a part of this to be there so starts off overview. Insurgency and counter insurgency are subsets of war, though globalization, Technology and technological advancement have influence contemporary conflict nature of war in the twenty first century is the same as it has been since ancient times a violent clash of interests between or among organized groups, characterized by use of military force. Success in war still depends
on a groups ability to mobilise support for its political interests and generate sufficient violence to achieve political consequences. Means to achieve these goals are not limited to regular armies employed by a nation state at its core war the violent struggle between hostile, independent and irreconcilable wills, attempting to impose their desires on another, it is a complex interaction between human beings and is played out in a contain he was process of action reaction and adaptation war. This Manual is available for free on the internets, Google, it a mockery. The whole thing today hits.
I whites says this. Also its scale and complexity should never this tunnel counterinsurgency its scale and complexity should never be underestimated by leaders and planners. Indeed, the possible scale and complexity must be understood before the big. Any of any such operation business. We seem to make over and over again, you think, you're the big. Bad ass american military where to go in there and squash. These is enemy soldiers and the peasants will be on board of local people we'll be on board when they see the freedom and we just under I made this thing all day long you asked me how hard it is to do this. How hard it is to actually executed a counter insurgency talks about a couple. Different aspects of insurgency. Couple from kinds are revolution which describes an unplanned spontaneous explosion of popular will another one
the coup data, which is a small group of plotters that replace state leaders with little support from people at large and in certainty as an organised, protracted political military struggle designed to weaken government control. Insurgencies normally seek to either overthrow existing social. And relocate power within the country. About internal wars as the name internal wars implies. These are primarily conflict within states, not conflicts between states, and they all contain at least some elements the war, that's why I think so much of this is pertinent to being a leader because so much of being a leader isn't about how you're taking to fight the enemy? It's how your handling the people inside your own country, that's! What's heart. Handling the people inside your own company handling, set the people inside your own organisation. Let me tell you something:
Add echelon fraud We do leadership, consulting we spend at east as much time helping saw of the problems inside the company. As We do helping companies figure out how to solve what they do to beat their competitors because if you dont have a squared away, organise situation inside your team, you're not gonna beat competitors you're, not gonna defeat your enemy. So this counter insurgency, these these Cameron. Certain tactics are what you used to help your own team stay unified and if you do utilise incorrectly. Guess what you get you get an insurgency at worst, it rich your team apart, but even if it rip your team apart it has you rowing in different directions and when you re in different directions
go where you're supposed to go, so you needed you needed. He brought check on that one possible exception to this. Rule involves what could be termed a liberation insurgency where indigence elements seek to expel or over for what they perceived to be a foreign occupational government such a regime. Its movement could be met by a legitimate government in exile, as well as elements competing for that role or another thing that happens in business. Businesses get bought This escaped bought by bigger businesses, businesses have people get inside and take over years, hostile takeovers, there's all these kind of situations, and then you get a little insurgencies inside companies inside businesses inside teams Also we can be outside actors, get involved fast forward in all cases of a long term, objective for all side remains acceptance of the legitimacy of one side claim to political power by the people's data reach so
if you're a leader any you are in a company and you're not considered legitimate! You had your dear. Basically, the gate. Your progress be deal. Insurgency does Justin how it's happening, it's gonna, be rough. Another little section here, the scale and complexity of coin should never be underestimated. The effort requires a firm polluter who will and green patients on the part of the government, its people and countries providing its support, widespread security requirements also limit flexibility, again, seeking to seeing the initiative to insurgents, there's all kinds of reasons that the insurgents have an advantage right out. None other court here, contest. Ivy internal war is not fair. As most of the rules favour the insurgents. Most of the roles favour the insurgents they absolutely did do
Indeed the insurgents in Iraq care if they wound its friendly civilians, not one bit, did they. If they kill each other, not one bit did they use torture, Absolutely did they use terror, absolutely do they do that this brutal and savage things to local populous. Yes, they absolutely did and they didn't care at all, so they have a complete advantage when it comes to the rules. Any, whether you're talking about the technical rules or the actual rules of engagement or the law on complex. They don't care about any that. The insurgent can make exhaustion. Promises and point out governmental shortcomings caused by the insurance so yeah, so you make a mistake for In and surgeon seek they're gonna use their vanished. You you kill civilians by accident. Oh that's, gonna be near national NEWS World NEWS, global news there.
Take advantage that they want that to happen, fast forward. Coin is not an approach to war that can be classified. Simply as foreign internal defence. It features a full spectrum of operations, including stability operations, like any other campaign. In all cases, however, insurgencies will not be defeated simply by killing. Insurgents since the insurgents, since the insurgent begins with strategic initiative they have an advantage. The counter and surgeon is usually involved initially in more defensive than often of operations. That's the way it can. Kicks off their attacking you. You never know who they are. We cannot begin until the people accept the legitimacy of the government. Hunting coin and stop actively impassively supporting the insurgents that right there. A smiling. When I read this because
that's one of the quotas that I just completely ripped off from this when I read it for the first time and I started use not all the time. I started Saint well When my boss would ask me, you're. When you try to get done of Serbia, we're trying to we're trying to stop the passive support that stopping for the insurgents and all this and sounded smart story stolen stalwart from them because that's what there was a lot of in remedy in remote there was the lock, populous was so scared that isn't, it and came into their house and wanted to use their windows due to their sniper rifle from. They would just like to get out of the way bread. I we do want to bother you you do it. You gotta do without when I hear the cause they they provided passive support that happens inside companies. Do you know you get there? ever that one element that used to be here, that can I help you Give me your hand if we target rat you out because they see that
Legitimate leader that whatever stepped in do this want to keep their jobs, the term YAP exactly they want to any waves right, I'm equally. This gives us good section: that kind of talks about the histories of insurgencies. That's why it's worth poured out this book Each insurgencies unique, although there may be similarities among them. In all cases, the insurgents aim is to force political change, and this is important to to read my note here. Force political change, but actually, sometimes, especially in business. The goal is to prevent change right. They don't want some new system. Want some new procedure, so they have a little and urgency to fight against their fighting against change, spit.
Four types of insurgency here, some things that you're supposed to try and figure out what the root cause of the insurgency. How important is that right, if you're in a team in you're too business you're, new leadership, position, and there's some kind of an insurgency happening. You feel that find out what the route of it Where is this coming from next extent? which it enjoys support both internally exert an extremely who's who who's on board with us Bases on which insurgents appeal to target population, insurgents, motivation and depth of commitment where they are like. How much does this mean likely insurgent weapons and tactics operational environment which insurgency to initiate and develop their campaign there's some things to look at and in this way, This again, so I think this is important because If you just look at your own team- and you just think over against me, I'm at war with them, it's a problem
The way you fight that war is not going to be correct. If you look at it. Insurgency say: ok, how do I actually assess this, and this becomes? This? Gives you such a strategic advantage several different types of insurgents. Some of them seem to completely change the existing political system anarchy. A gala, tyrians traditionalist, pluralist. They got good little definitions for all these it in their some. Do I seek total political power to state. These are secessionist reform, as prevention is commercial lists and you're gonna try and figure out what it is that you're insurgents are seeking. Insurgent strategies you ve, got conspiratorial conspiracy, conspiratorial strategy involves a few leaders and a militant cadre or activists party sees
control of government structures or exporting a revolutionary situation does its end. Resting. Such insurgents remained secretive as long as possible. Emerging only win. Success can be quickly achieved. That's definitely something think about because you think everything's gonna call right. You hear a little bit a murmur here, a murmur their someone's talkin about this method that we use in someone's against some way. Some change that we want to make your little whispers. Then, all of a sudden one day boom you get hidden face with it we're ready for You gotta watch out for that military focus. These are ones that are going to use military force to try and make things happen.
Organizations like the Irish Republican Army and latin american groups have pursued in urban warfare strategy approaches, terrorist tactics, cities too so disorder and create government repression both objective. I'm not generate much success without wider world support, Also got the protracted popular war, as it did suggest an ugly short term, protracted war. What does that mean? It's come last and what sir? Texas, from a psychological standpoint like if you and I are going change, you did you and you know that I'm just a guy that just gonna go protein
Did you like? I do not want none of that right turn that hate will let levies that say you set up the clock. The timer and you put five minute rounds honour and then I walk and- and I just turn it off- there's no time limit it. Just give me a protracted war were gone. I don't care how long it takes I was thinking of doing a is there still? Is there a jiu, Jitsu tournament right now? That's no time limit submission. Only does one exist right now. I don't know. We ve had some variations of attempted, but there anyone that's doing now time limit. Noise emission only think this certain ones that have like those types of matches, but there I think their specific, like special matches like no time limit matches or somebody like that, not all of them, but it actually pretty rare. But
I've seen that what if we do a Jujitsu tournament called protracted war, the thing. Is you gotta be ready? You gotta be ready think about this. As a competitor as a competitive Europe, I gotta hydrate cause. I might be fighting for the next nine hours. Well, that's what the Euro see. What's rounded survey The first ones were what how many, how many before they made the time limits dean minute time limit with like a overtime, sir, is one in two and three somethin like that. So you'd have to do this I had an idea you do because you gotta figure most matches are gonna last week, like nine hours very few matches would last nine hours. I think I think very few matches would go over an hour, but occasionally you would get to just really evenly matched humans.
You know how hard it is to submit somebody, that's good, but if you had three mats running at the same time and they were all had an no time limit, protracted war on each one of them So that way, if you have an audience that wants to see this, they can watch whichever one is it because that's phrase it someone's gonna get. You know that guy going to get a position and he's gonna start grind it somewhere down, but it might take two hours. I mean if I got. If thousand. If I was going against you in this parliament, and I got across side, it would be a long time. I would for a long time, I wouldn't rush it. I would cookies for a while. Yet Why would I rush yeah? No reason the in Those the whole thing about Digital to begin with Macao, Hale Ito, health crises,
Even smaller guy, you know in the he lets that you know he can put himself in safe position for listening to minimize David, all the stuff in then the guy gets all tired and then he can use Israel leverage whatever like there's a lot of on his batches old school over one hour there and then time limit, but you gotta be ready for that you as a competitor, but as far as tournaments go as audience. Member to you, gotta be ready for that yeah. Well, that's why maybe you're doing it with multiple match is going on at the same time, and that way you can see you know you can kind of highlight the big the match. Withers action happening, I watched a everything. Was not never meant limit, but it was one of those ones that I think is like a thirty minute time limit was like a super fight and one of the early tournaments edited, and they were. Super good, they're, both really good. So there even end like not only the score too. Wait on each other and after a while I brought this is I like Jujitsu a lot
boring. That's that's! You know what the problem is there the time limit the time limit because when you have a time limit, you like a well, I was doing yesterday I was like there was something like forty seconds left. I could see it on the clock and I was fighting ass wrong with Andy and I was like fighting to keep him from passing my guard, and then you know, there is a thirty two seconds left now like payment, even best my guard right now you know he's chances are he's not gonna finish so I'm not saying I let him pass cause. He definitely past it, but you look good I kind of like within lot lock my hands and I can see that there are no like you don't even know he knows it knows it he's loudly you like, smiling or whatever his idea so that in your head, so
when you, when you're in these things, you have a time limit your item. Whatever I can, I can. I can hang out for another seven minutes. Not just don't expose anything, but if there's no time limit different minted having an italian, so You're going into those protracted wars, if you're the, if you're the insurgent bro you live there, you live that life now so so you don't care how long you know when we, when we fought Vietnam, When we fought in Vietnam, the Vienna. Is there not going anywhere there, not there at home, We have to go over there fighting in Iraq there at home. The insurgents. Are there they live there. There was foreign fighters, of course, but. Afghanistan same thing, so they have this weapon on their side, which is time the protracted war he's got some kind of off, but
in this. He was like a wonder. It wasn't a document you, but you know the kind words like on like discovery or one of these, and then they they propose like what. If this happened, how, like there's the show called what of humans disappeared or something like that. You ve heard of that where gay after ten years, the city, would start girl after and they have it's pretty cool. So there is one where it said what if aliens took over- and how would we beat them because of aliens took over there? That's what they would be. They wouldn't be like oh Let me just come and live with you guys that that's what they're saying chatters arches other they're not benevolent, yet not to help people they're here for earth. You know like them, you think about it. That's every living thing. It's kind like brow! I live here now kind of thing we gotta play anyway. Saying, how would we fight the aliens in theirs
they're breaking down this, what the aliens would do first, is what they do. Second, this would they dish? Third, they just totally breaking now thinking, but they're saying at the end of it at the end of the day, the best way we could win is through. I think they call the gorilla warfare, or maybe I can insurgency- I forget what they called it, but that's what they would say that we live here. So we have that advantage of like we can hide for months an attack and then go hide again. You know cause we live here, Meanwhile, there here thoughts. I again you ve gotta run supplies from their own you, whatever alien species, and they gotta make moves and data that your act me into a protracted conversation about are you. Innovations are used, is one over here home. It's too it's the exact metaphor, though you know like where, if like aliens are coming over whether to take over or to get some alien, done
where we live here, we don't either we can take. Kids were eleven years. Is the thing that's ridiculous about this argument? Is what level of competence does the alien do? The aliens half will say varying levels of carbon. Ok, so if there let's face it, we get invaded by aliens at world, not that advance, and we would just kick your ass rockwork like on district, nine or something like that. I don't know, but I am not familiar when: where did that battle take place, South Africa? What was who? Who the insurgents alien? Although the insurgents were. I guess that's not really! No movie situation. Yes, oh yes, I you're talking about actual wartime situation that I was unaware of. Oh yeah, the aliens came down. The add on that movie. I guess you know designated was not about any kind. Insurgency at all is more that. Their competence. What was their competent alia? Basically, you,
aliens Avenue, I forget why they were they are known, really knew whether there, but it is essentially the ship, didn't you didn't crash, but it's sort of got jammed up in their swords. There is, though they would they fire after a few months or a month or whatever they they were. The human people went up and with their helicopters, because the aliens, kind of cane. Didn't crashes! Hovered stayed there, didn't open, didn't nothing, so they go up they explore. They open the alien craft, pretty good good. Anyway. They open it in. It means are starving freakin you know their messed up like their desolate bureaucratic and so like hey, will they're not style. So what do we do? Just leave innocently set up these caps form. You know they ve helped PAL Bomer whatever, so the aliens were kind of quarantine. There going a lack of food lack of food, so they can shuffle supplies, but that sort of aliens- you know I don't know what are you doing? You can't just let them live with us, because there cannot whatever
Those kind of that situation shows about fighting is less about. That is more about some other issue. I guess You'D- have to figure that if an alien element- maybe here they're pretty advanced, they got some technology startled think would be coming up against the J G team. No bread that's what that shows. The J B team gonna show up on earth How did they get here? They designed some kind of a spaceship yeah. Here these the use of Isla mosque level? Smart? Well, then again taken glee sure that, but that does that indicate or does that, does that prove that they're, gonna be squared away in all ways. You know: maybe they just have this new technology can do stuff by union mania spaceship that can get here and you had a good fight to get here. This was not easy. It's a different kind of fight when you think about it. This insane, it's gonna like oh, maybe they're, just people that of net imagine if they
didn't even have the concept of violence. Yeah just was door, which was totally foreign too. Bakery show appear and one that your tries to do something Somebody's head somewhere with a bat, realized all Sharia computer, but is that impossible that there's a group that just has no comprehension of violence. If there is you know what they'd be they'd be aliens, Does he have assumed Saint things? Work differently seems a whore You know how I got every once in a while, like you you'll give situation. Where are we now turn underground? Bigness open, like ambiguous, actually know, but let's say with a Europe Europe, the alien you gotta distant planet, you like we're gonna, take over so we're gonna weakened Bring this poison is poison, is like the most with lethal poison ever created here so willing to take this forward. Exterminator all like the top
we're gonna go and then you go to this distant galaxies go to their planet, whatever perfect, for you no perfect, just like earth whatever, and you go you. Spring this poison, and then yeah they're, like all my gosh, it solves like a bunch of their problems and make some superhero it's like that in a situation, I'm just saying It does not prove that because they know how to travel through dimensions or whatever I mean they're gonna be successful in everything seemed to be, it could be. The opposite ran on our well protracted war, that's where we're out is now theory of protracted war outlines three phased politico military approach, strategic defensive this, where the enemy- and in this case your foot them fourth and whose the enemy but the enemy, meaning the government has stronger forces, so you're in defence then stalemate where doing guerrilla operations and
often it is when you actually have beat down the government forces enough that you can actually perhaps real war from almost like a conventional war, admit it but how you can go. These data, go you go through on stage. You can skip a stage and come back to the stage so that happens, we're protracted war, it's very hard to speaking up Frankly, war is very hard to get the submission on the insurgents cause. Every time you get him get him in it. Well, they slip out little boy right now. You can't, go and find him because they said and with the local populace. So you you ve, got a kind of veto check for that self. That's protracted poppy the war. They got traditional, many contemporary insurgencies. Furthermore, traditional approach based on clan, tribe or ethnic group such insurgency,
Typically, has an entire community join the effort as a whole, bringing with within their existing social and military hierarchy,. The primary struggle in an internal war is to mobilise people in a battle for legitimacy. And I think that word legitimacy and legit is one thing that made me start thinkin made us. Do the cameras urging mental because think about how off that happens in an organization. The leader is either legitimate or not. And if York, if you're not considered legitimate, everything is hard and if people think you're legitimate everything is that much you're. So when you are acting as a leader and you do things that negate
or detract from your legitimacy, you're doing a whole lot more damage than you think. You're. Every time you use your authority and abusive way your legitimacy goes down every time you tell a lie. Your legitimacy goes down. Every time you do the right thing, your legitimacy goes up. Catholic you'd want people will say I demand respect You mean like that thing. You automatically just lost respect. Your kind of re guy is because the It's not really. I do what you mean. I have to say that You can just act like that. Just act like you demand, respect liked. Call me, Sir kind of thing, I'm nothing leaving recalling from sir whatever? But you know that kind of stuff, like the harp on that kind of stuff,
you can tell someone's reaction when their reacting to this detail where's our beggary, you know like us what you doing Anna it dear me if we say like, I man, respect, I'm not gonna, I mean me earning it. That's a whole different thing, you see insane, but you do you just better give it to me. I don't think so. It's like, Those you know if you're illegitimate, that tends to be like what it looks like if your legitimate it tends to not be what it looks like it's just a good little framework to think too, to filter your actions through. Does this make me more or less Ass, legitimate mobilization means there are five means to mobilise popular support, persuade in colors in reaction to abuses, foreign support, apolitical motivations, a mixture of them may motivate anyone. Individual, so persuasion. Political security and economic
benefits entice people to support one side or the other swear you're like a we're. Gonna. Take care you coercion. This is the care in the great persuasion is the carrot. Cohesion is the stick you either on board. What we're doing already give you be down right. Action to abuses, this one as important a government that abuses its people or, as is tyrannical, generates resistance to its rule. Think about that from a leadership perspective things all those three things from a leadership perspective you can either he's persuasion, you can use court, so carrots stick and then reaction to abuses, so if you're abuses, if you abuse- but, as a leader they're gonna have been injured. Maltreated victimized, dishonored or had close friends relative killed by the government, particularly by security forces, may last back at their at her at their attackers. So when you're abusive, two people, it's gonna, come back at you. It adds You ought to the insurgency fill you say
insurgency will use that oh yeah, Yes, that's how you get people to come on board. If I share your house knows: ok, echo, I'm real sorry to hear about your brother, I dont, really sorry to hear about your brother can't believe that they did that here. I can't leave the government security forces. Did that to your brother? Do you want to fight back here's? What we're doing use your ruin us so that what does that mean? That means that when you're fighting, and insurgency, you can't add fuel to the fire. You have to be very careful and how you act towards the populace, because the pie Phyllis, because the insurgents will utilise your abusive actions too Ulster, their cause? foreign support. Obviously you can have people on the outside that like to see that that want to support some insurgent inside it
Audrey, a political motivation, Caesar. Here's crow most mercenaries, people attracted by the Holy WAR, romantic status and others yourself, images of being a warrior and a fighter for a cause might also join inserts. If you could be so long that nicest people that were just criminals, I just wanted to go, get get crime on. I wasn't like they were promising a whole bunch of my stuff in in the islamic state. What other than authorized rape of you know: women, children, girls and boys. There was you know, I'm not can say how I saw this, but I saw some ISIS promo videos like promo, like there I don't know that they were recruiting videos or no some others too, but an it was like a promo like
casement for this cool, like club kind of their assets and await where they ones that were like insane? violent, nor are they were just kind of real positive. Yet in the EU would show like yea, thereby there is, there is a whole bunch of em and yes, insanely violent one that we're kind of like produced a little bit. You know that was yeah that was kind of odd. It was like weird cuz, I don't know who they were marketing to I mean I couldn't relate to the audience that they were more to all say that, but rather in the other one, the nice one was odd, because I like what everything else been putting out then also almost like this utopian commercial yeah, that's the that's crazy world of. I guess social media might have do term for this, so media, yes, emotional, media, it's not only for social media, it's actually all money, because every meteorite now just emotional media. How can we make everyone hyper emotional way?
story. Can we show to make everyone freak out? Let's do that? What video can I tweet or share on the ground Make people get super crazy. Let's do that with one can we can people retweet, that's a big one where their black ok. This is like super irretrievable. Could you gonna get off fired up and bringing it to say some along lines in your head in system along lines of? Can you believe this I said this boom retweet well, who agrees with your ball negative feel the same way hopefully retweet to prevail. It's also actually some people at work really thinking about it, see that legal weight earlier they get emotional, yes, and then you get home, millions of people next little sections is about costs This causes a prince bore movement. Militant we defended, are supported in sir.
May create artificial contradictions using propaganda and Miss formation Insurgents have much to gain by not limiting themselves to a single cause. Insurgents employed deep, seated strategic causes as well as temporary local causes, adding or deleting them as circumstances demand. So you get this sort, whatever you Whatever your problem is with the government like, if you insurgent Iraq, people people you know. Not only do they say well well in Iraq, it was you that the ban the submitted charge forever Not only that, but we don't have whatever No, we don't want there. What's our oil, we don't we don't get enough money for our oil whatever grievance. You have becomes part of something that we adopt and that can happen side. Any team right. What starts offers You have you're mad you're Anton America's we're using a new method and you're mad cows waiting.
In a pay, raise guess what now we move both on Madame on both now immediately adopt your damn right. We need more money and that's how the insurgency squirrel sort adopting all these different problems. If it causes unifying into one giant cause year, so it like this They defies the like enemy, the enemy verses. Any country ruled by a small group of that brought without broad popular participation, provides a political cause for insurgents, exploited or repressed social groups by they tire clapped, be they entire classes. Ethnic groups are small elites, may support large. Costs in reaction to their own or narrower grievances. So again, as a lead, When you're. Looking at your team internal
that you might be getting multiple causes turned against you. Next sections about mobilizing resources and obviously, insurgents while resort tactics such as guerrilla warfare and terrorism, not only because of their disadvantages Manpower Organisation, but also because they usually begin with limited or in adequate resources compared to the counter insurgency So that's why you end up a guerrilla warfare. Asymmetrical warfare. About money. They talk about insurgency and crime statement requirements, often DR insurgents into relationships with organised crime or into criminal activities themselves. Absolutely true, I know the Agnes had all kinds of crime goin on earth, so the insurgents had all kinds of crime going on smuggling in blackmail Gets in the whole nine yards to try and pay for what they were doing and then you know enough,
then the guts massive drug trade to support the insurgency. So that's definitely something that can be problematic. Means of insurgency leaders, combatants, political cadre, auxiliaries and mass base leaders control them sergeant movement. They are the idea, people and the planners, the usual exercise leadership through course of personality, the power, revolutionary ideas is met. Interesting the power of revolutionary ideas in it, kind of interesting, like yours, always hear talk about how I was a rebellious kid at I'm, even I'm, was rebellious in my Navy career without a doubt, was rebellious. I always have that kind of rebellious thing, but this the idea, that the power of revolutionary idea. Of revolutionary ideas, their second natural human kind of
There is a natural human draw to that, and you know what my best example of that, which you, my friend, will give me a full salute and credit for. Do No, that is what is the. What is the insurgency that you think of that everyone is drawn to an everyone supports surgeons. Every just about every human being supports one The insurgency individual responsibility now one star wars the moving get movie worthy What's the name of the rebels right there, revolutionary that's what's happening wide is why do these revolutionaries whitish shake Varro, your hat this t shirt devil as he's a revolutionary right, people like that this is some weird. It's like
guess it can. Kind of like rooting for the underdog. Maybe there's some kind of some kind of attraction to that. That just naturally exists that's? Why, when we watch star wars, no, no one says air hope the empire winds right to know one thing and that even the name, the empire. I see, I see what you know what's going on, there I mean it did the American Revolution. Pollution ideas, Sayer people like that kind of thing, yeah under I mean that's kinda, while I guess you know warmed as thinking through psychologically. You know what you're about you know what's naturally attractive about it. You take all your grievances in life bright. I dont, don't make it. Money. I didn't get up where I wanted to end up my girlfriend dont me, my boyfriend dump me I d Like my house, I don't like my car. I dont like my apartment, whatever grievances, you have, you can pack
all those things up and you can point a finger at him and you can say those draw wrong. I'm the revolution, we over here yeah need identify with that aim. In back to the movie thing, Were you identify with divers, I really hope of dies. You are the ones that star wars, so you ve think. What are they called just the rebellion where they called the rebels, the rebels here, rebels, rubble based in the same year this year support under the underdog versus the emperor yeah, but that's more than that. It wants a most movies conservancy, most movies, but that's a lot movies the underdog browsers for it can t be. I seemed like Oliver bureaucratic kid freak in Britain. No, no name ramble Vernal. Whatever moves you watch whenever there, the underdog, so those leaders, they're gonna capitalize on the power of revolutionary ideas, is even in marketing even
Marcie people like this revolutionary new pair of sneakers are found. Whatever I do, everyone is attracted, I'd map remember on Rambo, first blood, pardon to miss that time where he was In the war, the area, today was the. Why was the mud? Is the mud wall? Essentially in the Vietnam? Whatever and like he opened his eyes? You could only see his eye and then you'd like under his fingers. First, you know and it comes out and killed. That at the time was a revolutionary idea. We hid in the mutter that those candidates of we did it receives a bribe. The duties it is nailed, but they is captured in discussions were less become romance, do the actual fighting and provide security? There is the political cod dray, the contrary is medical cord, the insurgency, their actively gauge the struggle to accomplish insurgent goals.
Auxiliaries are active sympathisers, sympathisers who provide important support services, and then you get The mass base- and these are followers of the insurgent movement supporting the pockets and again so inside your organization inside your team you can identify coup. These people are when there is the insurgency going on right. There's the leaders of it Krajina Casper, this advantage of their state and up the man right there revolutionary. They got a little advantage. There's combat instead are actually going to try and make things happen. There's this contrary. That's out they're gonna veto to run their mouse and sowing the seeds of discontent there's than theirs but Pfizer's and the mass basis. If you can identify who these people you can realise what you need to do to disrupt this insurgency from happening. That. Isn't it weird that, as we talk about this, I just had this instinct right now.
Even in my own head, been right now, as we have this conversation, Even I sympathise with the insurgents in like talking about my thinking about all, I got this new. I the man and all that stuff. That's real! That's real stuff! that you feel be ice. You think it's cause were american or is it a global like? Are we can it will raise hate? Your were where Americans were revolutionary, we rebelled against King Lear, maybe later own country, we won't stand for this kind of you to remain that's America, letters but the thing is its universal. I feel like its university yeah, because it's gonna, like the our need for balance, so You get like someone, who's just starts out their study point as an underdog, whether bein a movie Orton Life or just any The situation that you presented with, if someone feel like an under
I just feel like an imbalance of some sort power imbalance, whatever kind imbalance, so we kind of part of mine. I think it is what it feels like when it into the experience it part of your mind, Kinder wants it? to be more balance, we want him to get out of that. Underdog situation saw when, It's like it's almost like a feeling of satisfaction. You know some slack feels like just desert something it's like. It feels so unfair, unbalanced at this empires we just like seeing along with yeah. That's it that's what it is. What why it is, I think for it. I guess that's right. That's the traditional heroic! That's what it is like these traditional it's one of the traditional whatever there are four heroic journeys. One of those Rog journeys is no David in life. The little guy stands up, the big We all appreciate that rocky for Morocco is our area from allows drew Don't
seven insurgency, you got leadership, objectives, ideology, environment, geography, external support, sanctuaries, phasing in timing, leadership, we all about- I want. The USA's extreme decentralization results in a movement that rarely functions as a coherent body. So you, The insurgents insurgencies are super decentralized, which means they have a hard time. Sort of coordinating mass mass movements together objectives. They gotta have clear objectives. They got their ideology, narrative, narratives, a word that gets thrown around all the time. What's the story that were telling right and how do we fit everything into the story that were telling. Ideas are a motivating factor in insurgent violence. Insurgencies gather recruits in mass popular support through ideology, go recruits, are often young men suffering from frustrated hopes and on
Well, to improve their long life, it's what I just said the insurgent grew, provides them identity, purpose and community, and additional fiscal, economic and psychological security. I mean how just blatantly obvious is that the movements. Ideology explains its followers tribulations and provides a course of action to remedy those ills. Mammoth again back to that valets thing: you know where we kind of On that, like think what this too, where ok there's a place, are unaware Ireland was in Ireland. Are it was somewhere where you get like criminals, criminals. Murders like rapists, type guys whatever in the jail and it's not even called jail. I don't think it's is essentially a rehab center, but in the ribs, and it is what you get you get like pets in It's a like it, but for therapy to rehabilitate em.
So there's punishment and then there's rehabilitation right that they focused No punishment is just rehabilitation and apparently from when I read or whatever it's like pretty successful. Here's the thing, though, with that it super unsatisfying? Could you get a guy who raped in all lady killed her, and then does been or something like that, for example, he goes no punishment. He to this place where he gets Patsy its he can have girls. He can hear me. Friends he gets like he learns like stuff. Skills and stuff, like that. You know- he's not locked in a cell these at a look like a little resort kind of thing, even either. Murder, even murders, yeah yeah. Two percent, so yeah there's no punishment, part of it so where's. The no satisfaction comment, if that
the person. The victim of this criminal is like your wife or something, and this guy gets to go to a resigned you're saying they. The victims have no satisfaction at seeing this rehabilitation take place. I want to go blood for blood, yet seems like that. Imbalance still remains because this guy gets to improve his life after he, killed my wife, meanwhile, shirts, murderers and everything yeah. That's what I read: that's why to areas that are automatic, our know how that would work here yet yet some you gets inventions going down. Oh yeah, but here was the thing in the point of the article, was that there was like the what you call it when you go back to like you. Gentlemen. You get out, then you go back to jail. Nobody's it had gone back to jail. Terrorism requires a relapse, Canada. There rate was so astronomically good. Then no one went back to jail like that is, like you so effective at rehabilitating the person. But me
when you think about it. Men are still this massive imbalance, so people when it Beaver Happy with that seems ain't but as a society like as a whole as far as groups as far as criminals getting rehabilitated, which I mean, how can you be against criminals, Beanery militated hard to be against that post, talk that satisfaction, we need that ill. That imbalance learn ballot. Well, I I just to back to this. Here, just this idea that you have and it'll it says. You know young men here That's it! That's what we're talking about we're talking about young men that are than our own able to improve their lot in life, and this is how you end up with these people get drunk then these super, usually extremist type, organizations most powerful ideologies tap Layton, a motive concerns of the populace. Such the desire for justice, religious beliefs or liberation,
from foreign occupation, The allergies provide a prism, including a vocabulary and analytical categories through which situation is assessed. Thus, ideology can shape the movements organization, operational method. It was interesting, you start racking on that. Would they called here vote just vocabulary what they call it, but you know you track any sort of organization. That's out there Sport has a year some some things you have got to get a weird colchi. Feeling too, is one of the main things that give something akin to feeling is. When you hear the vote, happy Larry, that's all being used in its all, not just you. But it's used as like this weird kind of way to answer any questions and circular arguments and always comes back to these things in your like, is getting kind of funky earlier,
very strange environment, geography, external support sanctuaries. These are all just really getting it. So the teachers are. I will stop at this. Will no phasing and timing insurgencies, often passed through common phases of development, not also insurgencies experience such phase development and progression through all phases, not a requirement for success so. Different phases that you can go through in, like I said earlier in this way pay attention, you don't have go through every face, not started phase. One gonna faced you than phase three, and then you defeated Three, no, you can t go back to face. Two you'd feel Do they go back to phase one, then you, I think we're under control. Then they go to to again the next day they go back and forth pay attention to that. About insurgent. Networks need here's some others insurgent vulnerabilities secrecy because they gotta keep a secret. Sometimes I have trouble get
the word out their mobilization. It can be hard for them to to mobilise support for for a couple reasons- one of the things they talk about. Here's to mobilise their based sport, insurgent groups, use a combination of propaganda, intimidation and they may overreaching. Both counter insurgents should be able to use information operations to ex effectively exploit inconsistencies, in the insurgents message, as well as their excessive use of force for intimidation, so definitely in Iraq. The insurgents went overboard in train to intimidate people and it pissed off the local populace and it definitely pissed off the shakes in the battle over body like they got pissed and some of them left fled. Someone got scared, but someone got mad and the local populaces saying as soon as they saw that there was enough American presents an Iraqi.
It presents to say: ok, thank you for being here will help you get these back, get bad guys out. They were on board financial weakness, it's tough for them and funding. Internal divisions. This is an important one to pay attention to count insurgents must remain alert for signs of divisions within insurgent movement. Again, when you are dealing with a group of people, and they're all mass against. You look for those crimes look for ways that they're not sort of in unison- and if you can explain expand those cracks offers and you can break down that their unification, which is a positive thing, and it is now Again, I have this little guilty thing in the back of my head a break down the other. The rebels excitement pro my star wars to support the rub
and by the American Revolutionary WAR. That's why a debt, if I with we identify with the rebels european example that you ve lost them, tricks, and I know this is a normal. You know he heavy, yes, vote, I've watched you I like saw at one time in the theater, so I dont remember much about it. So there This guy, I forget his name from bad boys. Anyway, you know these actor here. I deafening owners who is listening. Epoch, anyway, doesn't matter so basically he's- so you know the matrix- is about rare and plugged in the matrix and then meanwhile Morpheus our fishermen Morpheus saves all these people for from the matrix right and there The real reality you know, the only thing I remember this whole movie is when I think the main character says judges,
I know you gypsy. Unless I remember this review is gonna. Get that download get that for sure, so Morpheus blood everyone out of the matrix matrix is like everyday life, and you don't just look at a job in whenever you're living life over there. When you get locked out of matrix, the real reality is a straight up. Dystopia straight up, running everything you living and you know in a post apocalyptic types. So this one guy, it's The way I M apparently any like products like does it gonna like do better in the matrix, been ignorant, so he. Ends up teeming with the agents which is like the agents of the major gravel arise at roller r m in betraying the rebels thats. What that is rather than when, when you got u fine little slight divisions, and then you exploit on mineral and in any he he ran the risk of bringing down. The whole team seems a very rich to Morpheus and the team
but he wanted to do that right. Yet, yes, radiant run the risk he could have year. Was arrested him. He wanted your yea I'm so, whereas it is eat it. Does you take the blue pearl? Is that right? No, he wished he said, and this is what indicates that there is a fracture in it just a little bit of a division when he leaves one of the early scenes with them. He was talking to Neil. That means one than the main character and he was like you're thinking this long and I'm paraphrasing he's like why didn't I the blue pill you'd like saying, like all, I know what you're thinking you thinking that Meanwhile or north? Those were. The blue pearl is like you stay in the major bright red pills. You see so basin where he was indicating that he was sort of thinking of like that. He regretted it. A little bit kind of thing does like the little fracture that they showed in the story got in we have also enables loss, but you know matrix earth Morpheus meal and problem powerful burial to keep
oh this is the Hollywood podcast with ECHO Charles and ECHO Charles aspects of counter surgery. This is so all that kind of it. I hate to say those like the introduction, but this where we get into aspects of counter insurgency, this said this is how we actually overcome the insurgency. In almost every case, the counter insurgent faces a populist containing an active minority, supporting a government and a similar militant faction opposing it and they kind of lay out o eludes premature, a bell curve. Water the cause? There will be an active minority that totally ports, the cause they'll be neutral or passive. That's the majority people are just a. We don't really care, and then you ve got an give minority against the cause, which this is something
think about in life, especially in while like right now, America that you could. Hear from you from the two way for extreme ends of the spectrum ever noticed just hope you just trying to live a life and do the right thing and feels Your considers things sort of as a group near like all premisses. It hey. This is this yeah. This makes this doesn't make sense. This is small this isn't smart and then there's people on that spectrums, I mean on the outside of the spectrum that are jumping up, announced screaming and getting crazy. They are not the majority of humans, their small number of people. The boy they make a lot of noise. They call him what the vocal by Nord yeah yeah, the silent majority yeah, I think so silent majority was Nixon originally said that. Upon assuming COIN mission,
Soldiers and Marines must not only be prepared to identify their opponents and approaches to insurgency. They are applying counter answer, we must also understand the broader strategic context which, within which they are operating. So you need to think about the bigger picture obviously historical principles, number one legitimacy is the main objective. The primary objective of any counter insurgent is to foster the development of effective governance. Legitimate government all governments rule through a combination of consent and coercion, nothing about african leaders, perspective all leaders, just think of us at all leaders, rule combination of consent and coercion. That makes sense right, coercing people do and there can and finger Saint ok, we'll do it. Governments
described as legitimate rights, primarily with the consent of the government, while those ruled as illegitimate tend to mainly rely on coercion like making enforcing people do things which You probably heard me say this: it echelon front events, you know when I am using, I I never really had to order anyone to do anything. We would just kind of talk about it and things would happen why because I was legitimately in these positions. I wasn't there just I got I I have the rank and that's why I'm a specific? No, I have some experience. I listen other people like that's, what's good citizens obey the state, Talking about the illegitimate, so few, an illegitimate leader the citizens obey the state for fear of the consequences. Doing otherwise, rather than because they voluntary voluntarily accept its role, a government that,
Wives. Its power from the governed tends to be mixed. Did by the citizens as legitimate. So if you're, if you are elected right, if that's what you got, power from the is usually considered legitimate. It still He's coercion, for example, against criminals, but the bulk of the population voluntarily accepts govern governance, In western liberal tradition, a government that derives its just powers from the people and bond desires while looking out for their welfare is accepted as legitimate. So that goal as a leader in any I that you rely on a leader on your rank. Your authority on your power, any you're doing that you're taking away from your legitimacy, Legitimate legitimacy makes it easier for the state to carry out its key functions, which include the capability to regulate social relationships, extract resources, an appropriate and appropriate, or use resources in determined ways.
Governance that is not legitimate is inherently unstable because as soon as the states coercive powers disrupted, the population ceases to obey. This is when you Hear me talkin about hey, you might unified if I'd barking, if I'm your boss- and I say you better where your gloves, when you're in this compound going to fire you right you're gonna do it, but when I'm not there you're not gonna, do it, So so this is why that type of leadership doesn't work. Coercive leadership, threatening people, That's? Why doesn't work? It's not freaking legitimate new. Five indicators of legitimacy can be used to analyze frequent selection of leaders in a manner considered just and fair by us.
Stand for majority. The population than that includes pop promotions if people are getting promoted, good reasons that makes and then they are considered to be more legitimate, a high level of popular part, dissipation ends or support for the political process, a low level of corruption, when you as a leader do things that you are right when you, make little maneuvers that you shouldn't be making guess what your love? of legitimacy, goes down you to maintain high ground, a culturally acceptable level or rate of political, economic and social development level of regime acceptance by major social institutions. The governments that score high in these categories probably have the support of an adequate majority population as as leader
That score well in these areas are also going to have a high level of support. Military action can address these ships symptoms of a loss of legitimacy. However, restoring legitimacy can only be accomplished using all instruments of national power without the host nation government achieving legitimacy coin, not succeed, so you can beat people about all day long that doesn't give you legitimacy you can solve tactical problems. The military might, with brute force, done help you do you when you can't win with that in a crazy. Think this big military manual. You cannot win with just military force. You cannot beat some indecision. It doesn't work
no, it doesn't work on a long, long term scale. Couple other things here, unity of Effort- is essential. That's true with any leadership political factors, primary. One of the generals from mouth They Central Committee once stated revolutionary war was eighty percent political action and twenty percent military action. Eighty percent of it is political action. Eighty percent of it is maneuvering, understand the local environment. You have to do this. Here's a couple, the local cohesion is critical centre of gravity of an insurgency, successful com, of Counter insurgency operation depends on thoroughly understanding the society in culture within which they are being conducted soldier. You must understand the following about the population area in the area of operations, how
the groups of society are organised relationships and tensions, above them ideologies and narratives, resonate with the groups. Interests, and motivations means I, which groups communicate the societies, leadership system and, what's so funny about this, is an actual on front when we go and consult with a company visa, the things that were trying to figure out during our assessment face we're trying to figure out. Ok, we we forget how their task organised. What's there, what are they set up like then? We stuck on one of the really ships where the tensions, then what narratives resonate with the group with the different groups right, you got it from my meters that are said all they never do that. You got the senior leadership that ain't all will what would they Oh, you Suzanne their narratives at which are groupings some motivations. You gotta know what those are means by the groups communicate. Well, how do they actually talk to each other? Is there an open minded communication? So these are all
things that we look at two figure how we fix leadership inside of a company, do you do you do that? Because like did you get that great from here or d just happened to do that and boom is apparently what we don't just happen to do that in order solve the problems inside of a company. You have to understand these things, re read, but you you know. You know that for sure yes yeah. So what did you say? from where I get where you say. No, I didn't get a snatch, but when you know the way are you see an observer as I worked with companies, you start Haymow how's. Your relationship with it but over there you know hooker in, and he soon so explain to me what you think, where you think the companies going right now. What was the narrative lines up, because you have to figure these things out. Dude go in Canada, good cop, copy, or will you don't have to? U? Dont?
you know. You're, not bar gap is because everybody knows that we are there to help right, there's we're not try to bus them. We're trying to help re shells to people tell us everything the day. You know they did their very open and honest with us do the ever do like little sly things like- and I guess sly, because you know how like, if you're, really trying to ask this question, but you can't just come out and asset question. Could you can expect them had just come out and give you that street don't answer so you can ask these other questions to kind of get her, for what you want to know is: are their interrogation tactics are being utilized, wonder interviewing the personnel that we are consulting? Does Russia is, of course, but I mean it's not there. You write that they're, not sly. It's like we're getting information from people that they want. You tell us it's not it's not! We don't have to set them,
or rulers and to say things or we'll have to we talk to you. Here's what the advantage that we have as people want their company be successful, and so, when you ask him hey what works well, tell you when you say: hey there, any issues they tell you, because they want they want to have those issues fixed, is the easy part of the job is gathering this information. Knowing what information gathers important, but the easy part of job is Having this information is people are over there. Just there were more than happy to tell us was going on accidents. Couple things that are required of soldiers and Marines at every echelon. When you're. When you need to know about the cultural context, you gotta have a clear new ones, and empathetic appreciation of the essential nature of the conflict. So you
here and listen to both sides, wouldn't that it does it makes sense in And essentially, like have some understanding Yang us like hey and empathy, we're like, I can see how you'd I get. That argued very sorry. I guess you, where you're coming from That's good Do you have in your head for life for learning living room for being a human? It's true like the idea that, like someone just doesn't Get where that person is coming from it's almost like by that's just cuz, a lack of effort. You know the oak and here's the deal you're missing Your mic you're missing out. I argue with you and I don't know what you're saying and I don't see what your viewpoint is. There's no way I can do for you in an argument. I dont understand you. How can I defeat you environmentalist? I understand where you're coming from an end, not necessarily even defeat you how,
find a solution. If I do understand, we are somewhat looking defeat. You in an argument, that's what you do when you're twenty, that's what you do you're. Twenty three defeat: people in arguments when you're, hopefully by the I'm your forty eight like me, you actually do defeats defeat. Someone you want to find a solution, there's a lot of arguing. That happens just broadly I mean right now, we're seen it all day, long every day in the emotional media, social media, mainstream media, it's just a total. No listening. All talking no perspective empathy, it's! Why In no case there are a lot of people that are actually listen, trying to figure out what the solution is, but but many People they don't want to try and figure out what the solution as they want to defeat the personally argument, which is so pointless.
So then, you need to understand the motivation, strengths and weaknesses of the insurgents. That's obviously important you want to conduct elegant drives driven operations, meaning we want to actually pay attention a what's going on when I gather good until isolate insurgents from their cause and support smart move. Establish security under the rule of law. The cornerstone of any coin effort is security for the civilian population, and this is probably the number two line that I stole from this thing. General matters. Thank you, John. Precarious because I had to start discussing up the chain of command. What we were doing. Why were doing it? this line right here, the coroner, stone of Amy Counter Insurgency effort is security for the civilian populace.
Because what we were doing task in a browser was going out and killing bad guys in order to protect the civilian populace. That right, there is the cornerstone of, counter insurgency. So we were able to just get all of our missions approved up the chain of command, because what we're doing was in support of the cornerstone of of of Researchers. Thank you for getting those chapters out early enough tat. I had this to lean on. It would you limit actions. This is some illegitimate actions by government officials, security forces and multinational part partners are Those involving the use of power without authority, Oh wow,. Power without authority.
When you use power without authority or you abuse power. You? U illegitimate yourself. Every action by counter insurgency leaves a forensic trace that may need to be used in a court of law, Cameron, searches, document, all their activities to preserve wherever possible a chain of evidence and, more importantly, as a means to insurgent propaganda. This Epic and I'll, tell you why? Because inside businesses you make some little move. Makes some little move and you think no one's gonna know it, but it leaves a forensic trace. And that's just a different way of saying you know I am always telling people everyone's watching you
and if you try and lighted them they know. That's what's happening, one hundred percent what's happening. You try modest somebody, they know it I make a manoeuvre, somebody there's a forensic trace and they know it don't do your little maneuvers to try and take care of yourself prepare for a long term commitment back to that protracted war idea, Some contemporary imperatives of counter insurgency manage information and expectations achieving steady progress towards a set of reasonable expectations can increase the populations, tolerance for the inevitable. Convenience entailed by ongoing countered, Zog counterinsurgency operations. So- just setting good expectations. In good, realistic expectations and then moving towards them sleek and look around at the team and say: hey, look: we're making profits,
this work on- and this is our getting there- were making progress both ie- Third buffer countered, surgeon and host government ensure that their deeds match their words. Do what you say say what you do. Here's the other thing triggered me into talking about this use measured force. Any use of force generates a series of reactions. There may the times when an overwhelming effort is necessary to intimidate an opponent or region. The populace, but the type and amount of forced to be applied and who wields it be carefully calculated by a counter insurgent for any operation. Operation that kills five insurgency, counter improper counterproductive if the collateral damage of of the Creek of blood fuels or the creek A blood feuds leads to the recruitment of fifty more This was a little bit strange because
there were some of that idea that. Oh every time you kill and insurgent you create five more. We I've. I would definitely here that I didn't see it. What I actually saw was the opposite when we children insurgent. The local populist would be like ok It was. It was d gotten bolted. They got braver, they got tougher. They gave us more support. What did they say? the war or what was there thought of thought is hey. You know an end. If you kill it, they see you kill you some kid, some some some are. Some family member some family member gets killed think: ok, what we just created, nearly five brothers there, and now they're mad but actually offer times it was like, hey, don't follow what Freddy did We know what we know. He was doing. Bad stuff got killed and they kind of God
and I'll tell you what they also to go to a huge extent, understood collateral damage the local populous understood? collateral damage. So if we blew up a building or blew up a door, and we entered Building, and it shall the windows, and it turns out that wished. You know it was either the wrong building whatever and we'd say. Ok, you know what hey here's a bunch of we'd get a bunch of money. We'd apologize retain, would happen, explained to him and they would be like While you are at war, you know they end they and this is how I know that this is real. Is they give us information? They say. Oh yeah, you, I know you're looking for you looking for that, guy yeah he's he's been gone for two weeks and then we'd say yeah thanks We owe our here some money. It's weird highlighting here. You know because you know Ye D get wet
reports or like a useless from someone, someone who has a different onawandah agenda necessarily, but you know like sounds like get the word something like that's kind of their there? There deal you so they're kind of trying to input not impair their China, convinced that- and I don't want to paint this. You know beautiful picture because obviously there's there's others obviously times where you know the theirs those brother gets killed, and one of the other browsers says I'm going to. But you know what you think about in a family right. Mom and dad theirs our brothers, one of them one of the brothers out doing insurgents stuff and he gets killed. The mom and dad are looking at the other brothers going. Hey do. Go and do what your brother does, that help all time. No, not all sometimes the Jove Dad says. Well, then you don't work, go Avenger, brother, not usually yet so, and then
The other point is too: were you you from the out? side. You can hear someone's argument any economic one that makes me. I just think I may say where we were. It's like the brother got killed. If your brother, I killed you at the very least, have some feelings of vengeance. At the very least not to mention people live in a war zone who are down for the fight a lot of the time riots in the sea. There brother, you kill, they will. I tell Ya Montgomery, come avenge that that does they seek out as a lie. So- and it is true, the problem is its very simplified yeah regulators, because, what's really happen, What's really happening is the dad is going hate. You member Saddam Hussein, He was horrible. These american came and kick his ass and got him out of here and and now we're moving in the right direction. There you wanna go fight them what's wrong with you and then that means of getting killed in the gears legs brothers that you see what happens. Yeah yeah and see, and when you explain that your country, a lot of really easy, just to stare
type and Thrall everyone with a broad brush and say: oh there, they everyone, things like this year, totally not true man, navigator family, there be some peep kids would be insurgents, some kids wouldn't and that's not. Mention like some the terror that these normal families have been absolutely inflicted on them, and then it's like yeah. Ok, when you say they understand, collateral damage is kind of like you, the waste that is almost like and which is actually correct. From my perspective, where It sounds obvious. Everyone understands collateral damage given that it understands that box would we assume that they don't like one should exactly when you say that you like will not quickly and we we dehumanize yeah humanize, that global party, this thing with the other just they're here, a common emotion you bill,
my door, I mad rallying you're right. You know when it's really when actually dealing with human beings. We ve people forget that we're dealing with human beings that are smart and they think you broke their door now, they're gonna wanna plan a roadside bomb. No, she would evolve there. Don't you say, hey we're, for this guy, and he wasn't here. Do you is he's been gone for two weeks Sorry about your door here, some money by the way, work send a team out here and be hang a new door for you, which we did they go. Be appreciated it you please Let your friends no, but there's no bad guys. It live here and by the way that the only problems we ve had on the street. Is that building down there there's people in and out of their you might wanna keep an eye on cake. Will thank you and seeming hearing that Cyprus. That makes are in fact, that's More likely, you are in a situation that is below that's what I'm saying so this idea that every time a one you know you kill a person, you kill a bad guy that now five more totally untrue and not not too much
There's something I oh she's, gonna wanna go get involved. That right I mean that's. That's it there's a high deterrents level, a very strong deterrents level, because what what people miss out on is just a like. You said and the way I was explained. Iraqi families Go you on Norton iraqi families like there like a family. Like a family and there's be the dad got this new mom's got this going on in the kids and they you know, there's gotta, rebellious kid right, you're going to one of the war drums there's like weird pictures of whatever you know: Iraq movie stars. I mean your music stars and like it's there, just there just people We just paint them with this broad brush of how you think, They will react or how we ve been told that Thou react and it's not true gotta, learn and adapt
for I go there, who wields force, who wields forces? Also important, providing the police have a reasonable reputation for competence and impartiality. It is better to police- and these are police that are local police hand. Urban raids rather soldiers Marines, even if the police are not as well armed oars capable as military units since the populace is likely to view that apple, and a force as more legitimate? So you want the IRA keys to handle that all problems now in reality, there is what what made it He is a lot of the iraqi Army soldiers we're shia and alone. Poppy us in Almaty was Sunni. That's why, as quickly as we could we got the sunni policemen. I write He policemen that we're from her body to start doing these kind of things, because it was more some cases, not in all cases. In some cases there was more tension between the shoe. Soldiers and the local people. This was between the Americans and local bodies.
Learning, adapt and effective counter insurgent force is a learning organization right back to our podcast. We did with Dave Good guilty in power. The lowest levels, mission command is the conduct of military operations through decentralized execution based upon mission orders for effective mission accomplishment. What does that mean It means higher commanders empower subordinate to make decision with commanders intent. They leave deals of execution to their subordinates and required to use initiative and judgment to accomplish the mission, be central command. Thank you support the host nation and one of them The point I wanted to pull out of this support. The host nation thing is american forces committed a crime Are there to assist a host government, the long term goals to leave
host that is capable of standing on its own two feet? Two feet? In the end, the host nation has to win its own war. Achieving this requires the development of vile, viable local leaders and institutions. U S It is an agency's could help the host nation elements must be able to accept responsibility to achieve real victory and it goes on the war that you can't you, really easy, but when something needs happening it's, ok, well, we're Americans. We can make that happen. No, you need to actually not be easy button, and so one of the last section two year, It's called paradoxes of the counter insurgency which I would have named this sector would become been called I caught a means of counter insurgency, but you know what we're sand principles Imperatives discussed above reveal that coin presents a complex and,
often unfamiliar set of missions and considerations for military commander. In many ways, the conduct of the counter insurgency is count. Intuitive to a tradition, american view of war and that right there. That statement is why I'm saying if you're gonna start overlay more fair principles in your business. In your life, you need to also include counter insurgency in their because some times- are counter intuitive, sometimes there different than traditionally the way you think of war, and I think this attitude this. Whole attitude is so important to be able to take war, fighting and- overlaid into other scenarios. If you only know how to fight a conventional war of attrition UK overlay, you're those principles over the rest of your life. They won't work all the time there now new US enough, they dont understand it, understand the complexities and Those complexities is theirs. Paradox
and there's dichotomy, sir. Number one, the more you protect your force, the less secure you are. What does that mean? You have to take risks and when you take it asks when you, when you get outside the wire when you go work with a local, populous, the more secure you'll end up being So as a leader, if you stay locked Up in your office, you feel You're safe in their cause, you're not out there you know, get. Engage with people not to ask tough questions the less secure you aren't, you need to get out there. Next, when the more force used the less effective it is bomb. Barking orders when you're, you know yelling, people. Would you when you're saying you better do this are all fire you would have whatever those things are. The more force you uses leader, the less effective is when you use the minimum force required.
That's the most powerful The next is the more successful coin is the less force that can be used and the more risk that must be accepted. So as you perceive down the path, unity is less and less force and you have to take more more risk, which is crazy. The initial reaction to the counter insurgency pushing Romani was enemy attack. Sure going up. An american casualties are going up and guess what was true, so some people up the chain of command, not not mine. Well, yes, all up the chain of command. Everyone was saint, wait, there's more what's happening there's more enemy attacks, there's more american casualties. This isn't, No, actually that's exactly what's gonna happen. Sometimes doing nothing is the best react.
Often and insurgent carries out a terrorist or guerrilla act with the primary purpose of enticing the counter and surgeon to overreact, or at least act in a way that can be exploited. If it carefully That's none of the effects of a course of action. Concludes that more negative them positive effects will result in alternative should be considered, potentially including a decision not to act now this is, you know, what default aggressive! This is not default. Aggressive, biased fraction It is not taking action but default aggressive why Bracken buys by what them recourse as they raised act. They want them to have a biased to actually do something they want to buy us to take action. Default. Aggressive is echelon front. This is, telling young junior officers in the seal team. Eight, your default, it's gotta, be go! Take action! Make something happen, but both by as for action and default aggressive, neither one of those say what, hundred percent Gulf. No, it's default, meaning
so your default is, but you might have to adjust it by for action does mean you take action means you lean towards taking action. Sometimes you need to look at the situation and say you know what can help here. Nothing the best weapon with the best way, four coin do not shoot counter insurgency, Chief, the most meaningful success by gaining populism, fort and legitimacy for the host government, so how and is it that you as a leader, can make more progress, instead of. Telling someone know we're going to do it my way, instead of shooting them in the face of that you say, ok, you're way sounds good. You make you increase your legitimacy as a whole, to decreasing it when you fire one often their face. The host nation. Doing something. Tolerably is better than us doing it. Well,
hey as leader when you gotta suborned leader, you know you, you're better than your subordinate, but it's off times better to let them do it good enough. If a tactic works this week, it might not work next week if it, if it works in this I it might not work in the next. You gotta keep an open mind. You gotta change. You got to adapt The success guarantees. Nothing When Colonel Harry Summers allegedly told a north vietnamese counterpart in nineteen, seventy five, that quote You know you never defeated us on the battlefield. End quote the rope Why supposedly was quote that may be so, but it is also irrelevant and Whoa military actions by themselves cannot achieve success in COIN Tactical ACT,
It must not only be linked to the operational and strategic military objectives, but also to the essential political goals of coin tactical success guarantees. Nothing is perfect, is irrelevant in court. According to this north vietnamese colonel last one most of the important decisions are not made by generals. It's the competence and judgment of soldiers and Marines at all levels. Senior leaders must set the proper tone for actions by their organizations with thorough training and clear guidance and then trust their subordinate to do the right thing pro
creation for the tactical level leaders requires more than service doctrine. They must also be trained and educated to adapt their local situation I understand the legal ethical implications of their actions and exercise, support its initiative and sound judgment to meet there. Your commanders intent, you add a company in an organization as the Sea EEO as the c o o as the President, as guy in charge most of the important decisions are not paid by you. There may, by someone out there on the front lines better, led them correctly little section on successful practices and unsuccessful practices. I'll read some of the unsuccessful practices place priority on killing in capturing the enemy not earning. Aging population was at me
That means when you have a problem inside your team and all you do attack, like whoever you think is doing it. That's where your priority is instead of building relationships with the group you're wrong. So, when you're a little kid and Someone, I know, broke the water heater and no one wants to face up. So when dead, dad comes and says someone tell me or it's your Europe, you all get that sort of thing That's collective, punishing and it's the item I thoroughly agree with collective punishing There are times were used, for instance, in teen building exercises like seal training, yea and all your without all day, long or ya want makes a mistake there and make everyone pay and they're doing that actually to create some sort of friction right. What's wrong with you, Keep your about women!
illness until Charles gets his head under the boat monarch, I'll try wet year Kaliko too little pronged great one. You you wanna, put more heat on that guy cause like Letty, the team down a lot of times, there's more punishment, then letting yourself down social in they're all right there and then the other part is here that Fritz some stress on everybody is addressed in every area. Stew, it remember football, the we theirs like? Ok, so anyone you ok in football, easy said in say: what's gonna cadences a set down hut or go or whatever right the quarterback says it. So if you jump you start before the actual count offer for all sides are dependent on this defence people living things sometimes so anyway, There are certain drills like to drill that in your head and it's always
like an ongoing drill anyway. So if so, if we're gonna do like sums conditioning or something it'll be in the conditioning, so there were no line up licit wind, sprints they'll, be like ok, the counties on three. So little sat down hot hot hot on the Third Hut Nigger some people still jump off sides during the conditioning seem saying it's like a drill that constantly goes so if and I jumped off sides every He pays work inside sometimes the guy who both sides doesn't pay for it. So we are going home out, be like you just go and sit down Charles yeah or basically in a windscreen situations. The common thing in our situation would be like. Ok, let's states of a fifty are widespread. Rang started the debt, the dear Old guard line, and you run to the fifty or whatever. Only the of the council to set down how long I jumped off site echoed ECHO jumps eyesight. Who stays there? Everyone else goes five yards back
So now they have the fifty five yard when Sprint only ever fifty, I do it again. They go five years back again soon saying so it like puts way more pressure on you to get it right. So you see Dude learn, I think, but some people can get into this weird down downward spiral because they're so stressed about everyone Madame enough now, so they don't even think so they can't like get there get their act together. It's funny, but it's a good where luxuriant stress, Some are successful practices. The other on successful practices are, you know, very sort of military conduct battalions Ized operations as the norm. That's too big concentrate military forces in large basis for production. We know that that's not gonna work focused some operations forces primarily on rating like hey, where to go Africa, bad guys, that's not where you want to put the focus you could do you need to do it for sure, but it can't be the focus
so that is so then the sun, the successful practices are emphasise. Intelligence focused the population, their needs and security folk, on the population focus on the people. And establish an expanse security areas, isolate insurgents from the population, so those kind of things that help out place police in the lead with military support. We we absolutely try to do that. We put the Iraqis, we brought the Iraqis with us, we we put them in the lead, so those are some solid, Successful practices and here's the summary from this first chapter counter insurgency is an extremely complex form of warfare, truly war at the graduate level at its core countenance Gee warfare is a struggle for the support of the population. The protection and welfare. Is this two of gravity of friendly forces and.
The decisive terrain. Something that I saw. What do? I think this is the third like big thing that I stole from there to sort of start soon, being counter insurgency up, my chain of command was the idea that the centre of gravity the decide if terrain in this fight was not air filled, it wasn't a part of town, it was the people. If we got the people like you, no one when you on a beach? Once you get the beach head, you know, what you get a foothold. That's the that's the decisive terrain or fear taken an island. You wanna get the high ground. Here the high ground it wasn't. The the the beachhead was the airfield. It was the people.
Gaining in maintaining that support is a formidable challenge there, a host of non military agencies who efforts must whose efforts must be synchronized and coordinated with those of military to achieve these aims, and this think, closes out insurgents are also fighting for the support of the population, but are constrained by neither the LAW of war nor the bounds of human decency do anything to preserve their greatest advantage? The ability to hide among the people, these amoral enemies, Sir I've by their wits? Constantly adapting this situation to defeat them It is essential that counter insurgent forces develop the ability to learn and adapt rapidly and continuously so
Learn and adapt rapidly and continuously seems to be a common theme here on this podcast in the books that we review in the people that talk to the lessons that we learn. We seem to hear it over and over and over again as one of the primary and most important attributes of winning. So I think it's pretty clear that you need to take lessons like this and, if you can learn to apply them. You can't universally applied right and it says in the book it says you can just universally apply these things. You always have to be smart enough to pay attention to run a feedback. Loop see what's actually happening and adjust only do that by the way, if your humble enough to do
actually listened to the feedback loop, everything is related. Everything is connected and you can overlay these things into whatever part of your life. You need two to counter whatever insurgency that your facing, whether you're on the battlefield. Whether gear in business, your leader, you're you're, facing insurgency in your own family, and we also have to pay attention the fact that we might have an insurgency going on inside of us and insert see a weakness and slough turn bring us down ECHO Charles.
Do you have any recommendations? How we could fight the internal insurgency that we are facing every single that roads there hundred percent there? Can anyone you know when you gotta work up planned. And then boom. We feel the battle going on inside all the reasons why tradition actually in what I think about it today should be arrest that's the one side. You know the other side is like nope. Should it be a rest day, in fact, you're you're weak right now and let's get stronger. Let's push, it is a lot of physical benefits and if you we're come this feeling of not wanting to do the work out and you do it anyway. That's even now you're getting stronger mentally too, and now you know, but meanwhile,
poor little battle the other sites like, but you got that other stuff. You could be doing that you need to do. You got the stuff to do if you get that done, boom you'll be way better off and saying you gets a recovery for like two battles: goin on insurgents or in their oil and there to end its like that. When you said the insurgency and then said it's that it's the weak part of it happened to me before I go ahead, good, let the cat out of the bag right there. So if I'm we're working on something right, whatever it? Maybe and it's it's time for the workout or whatever, like that part of me to be like at just, do it tomorrow work tomorrow. Could look you got this thing that you're in the middle of getting that done, is actually better right. Now we're its beneficial. You know that in surgeon is trying to win the hearts and minds of my whole actions. Susie like showing me the benefit you know of like skipping the work out, that's kind of evil
in a way you know, but you fight against that anyway. So, yes, so what are we doing? working out dear for sure must get the work up and ask if you're injured, skipped orca today was today this very day. I want a new look at my weak ahead, because what is the day of the week is Saturday right now, so I looked at the weekend and looked at tomorrow, I'm pretty booked up tomorrow and the whole week is kind of crazy, and I know that we needed to get this done. Oh my first thing: you know I always wake up early morning work out, but I knew I had to prioritize this and I actually got on pretty quick up. You know I had already read its allows going through making notes and whatever and I, but I woke up and did that first.
Where the worker, before the work out, because I had prioritize next year- is understood. So now it's like. I spent like three or four hours finishing the reading. Look in a couple things up in that I was going through highlighting so now it's like ten thirty or something like that. Had little food and I had all kinds of excuses: locked and loaded so so what I did was you had a little emergency going on and then I just text you in today, one let's do it myself as soon as I see if he he's, I don't care if he responds or not undergo get after it before I eat
legitimate food rip. Wait did I've got a little work. Olives went knocked out to work up here. Just a sort of combo work out took me forty minutes. You know what I'm saying still found both by just how to get it on knew how to get it had overcome that boy. Insurgency situation goes on. Close insurgents can make. The points are made. They knew they know what they're doing days. Have you really know what they're doing that's why you gotta be able the camera and are seeking Let's face it, insurgencies our successful often yet he had there not don't count on you to be in trouble big term. What sauce, this yesterday, when I was working out same way. You were that one time your teasing me about squats or whatever you were like war, wonder vehicle Scott remember use in a case this tendency in inverse reverse whatever scenario, whereas, like I wonder if Jack, who could do this work like what, if mean Jackal Trade, work out whatever Niemann Day and we
to do the same work out same weight. Everything if you can do it, There's an indicator. You can't do it kind of thing right, so he can it's an indicator that you get there. That's the purpose of trading workarounds. Yet I, like you, always wonder like I want, if I could do that, guy's work. I wonder if I could do that. Do you know that that football players or whatever you know you can't wonder that everyone's so. You you see guys working, not hard. I come under other enormities cross, it guys and whatever So that's what I was thinking like a wonderful. I wonder how it would fare with jocose work, because this too kind can kinds of lake roadblocks. If you will one, like, if I just can't do the weight like let's say your squad is just it's a bigger squat than me, and you know so, if you got freaking a set of twenty instead of in the seven nine and a set of how does, however, that those in your
you're, gonna get to use your same weight, and I simply can't get twenty wraps with that way. I just physically can't do it is come. Ok, there's that that's one, then The other one is like this is like. I got a tap others too hard for me, I got a rest more or I gotta like not you ten sets. I can only do like five or whatever you seem saying. There's that too so both of those in problem is also do is like you, under how would I fair in that exact workout seem mean? Oh wait like work now works similar wait before his body weight or whatever so like. I was wondering that I wonder if then Elles Ike, four cells when they are what if I could do jackals? Who knows what that our thinking, I wonder if he could do mine, I don't think I could do yours. I think that there has been a Van diagram whither, in overlap in the middle, where we could both
each other's work out that I have some work out, so you and build a do. You have some organs that I wouldn't be I'll. Do it because of our special Dese right there, the met cons, I feel like I don't know cause, yours are more extended. Right met their ear, meccans there, they probably like what fifteen twenty minutes or something or more yes, so but they're gonna be less intense, though, depends whatever. Nonetheless, I was wondering maybe one day within a sea. We should treat straight up? Have the worker I've rest periods built into that's that's one is yours, seems more structured. You know, I guess not re, I guess not really cause, but I just basically I don't have rest periods Generally most my work, I don't have like a rest time where you're like three minutes arrest island and we have that
for sure, because robbing it has some other exercise during that period, which is yet another type of like. Look you know like stimulus, free because little ITALY, you just Ok, let's go basic example. If you go five sets of twelve, would you say, there's a whit theirs, huge difference with not only the way you can do, but just over what you doing to your body for that work up, if you go, one minute resting between those it in three minutes in between the sets you doing like. Essentially you doing two different things to your body, so it's like I its work. I am I doing then that's what that's why rest is is kind of set in there, but then, there's no rest in between the sets and you program like. Oh, I need to get five hundred pull up. I don't care I get em, we just gotta get em. They can, I guess- or whatever word just you just gotta- get five hundred pull it's kind of that. Part of the work out to you know. So it's like it's almost like it's
doing a specific thing to your body. There, too, you know so it's like that fits you know you don't have to have rest periods and I program in for a reason, I'm saying to you specific purpose, but nonetheless Nevertheless, I forgot the eminent people. How can stay on the path to effectively healthy and effective help yourself. When you can eat meat fuel, you eat good, The G20 is good. Eighty percent clean twenty percent freedom. Eighty percent discipline thrives on freedom. Interesting wool Diet. That's recommended, unite in ten nineteen, you start when seventy thirty, then you that's a slippery slope retract. That's what I think, nonetheless not supplement taken through joint
for your brain for even proteins elements boom. We got you jackal. Few supplements. Joint warfare rejoined us, Z, krill oil, omega three all day and antioxidants by the way. Also, the plan and discipline go, which are essentially same thing: different delivery systems, cans and powders, strew on the back and pills in power. Called caps capsules, because at all I dont be little at the beginning. Started. Making discipline ass it hey man is a really good stuff. This is exactly what I. This is what we want right. I said, but I will I talk for long periods of time for live and if I have to drink this, to get my get that hitter survive during this before I go out and start talking
and then I got to go to the bathroom. I said I need a pill. I told him I said I did put the stuff into a pill. He was okay and he made what is it called its a compressed not a capsule, but like a rustling, whatever I don't really like those offer cylinder How do you send him back row, illegals recent you he said you said Bill and I said I thought that the accounts that is a big netteke appeal right. I do know that appeal was whatever that best thing is a capsule was something different. Yes, but if you need that little like you needed bomb, Didn T go up, the capsules or discipline got a pill Jill CAP, which actually this stem from. So I forget what happened in the world but there is controversy about veterans and drugs,
and someone was saying something like you know. What do you expect to happen when these put all these vat on drugs? Put one amphetamines- and I said I said we're not only improve Feder means because pilots take amphetamines- and I said I texted day Burke good deal here and, as I said, do you did they give you guys amphetamines to take and he goes No, this is all of within this. This on twitter, his pride two years ago. He was no cycle battery. I got. No, they never give pilots amphetamines and then I get it. As I tweeted that they work good deal here, he goes back yours, RO. I just screwed your approval. I screwed you like what, because he was they definitely Give it to us now- and I was like an Herzog roger- was eight, which I was wrong, but guess what they call him go pill.
So that's what I was saying to to be little else said: hey man we need go. Pills. No, we don't need an feather means and in fact, do not want amphetamine no servant, but we do want the feeling that discipline and and the deal the discipline powder gives you little cognitive. Kick your little little get up and go yes, So I would call this book anyway. That's little information behind that we adopt. You got Mark strawberry, chocolate four kids. We got meant peanut butter, the whole nine yards. And all the stuff is available, divided with job or its available at origin, main dot com. Speaking origin me. In other things on their besides juggle feel like these inrush guards Digital one we go back to do if we haven't already were kind of getting back their boom. I underground movement was deafening. People training,
That's me, straining taxes is open, yeah, yeah, others, I think I heard a thing that gyms are opening June fifteenth or something like this they opened with a bunch of restrictions, so yeah, but we're getting there. Coming out from underground for sure, so, we need a newbie, yet portuguese, best one factually in the world by the wind and fully in America, of course, DNA in America, of course, which is kind of important right now, because you want to get your stuff, that's made in America not made in China yeah. That's what recommendation. Anyways, don't forget about genes. Dont forget about boots, don't forget about tee shirts, hoodies and don't forget about joggers? Unless your me, if you're me, don't get jobs, forget about me, I don't know, there's a whole a whole. Just
Ok, there's a whole just plethora reasons why? If your name is Jacko dont get joggers, they just don't Why don't you know not meant to be a don't put em on just give you David, ECHO. Charles, are all dead, all their augurs. Yes, ornament, dotcom. Also, if you wanna show massive support in the Amazon shopping is what you do go to juggle podcast our competent click through one, the books in the front, age or the book section click through their ticket Amazon. That's where he on coming. You really want to get clever. We live on Amazon, save that link to your bookmarks and then shop. Through their from now on. If you want, she wondered. If you want support that way. That's a good way to do it also talk was a store. That's called Jacko store. Three can get your shirts custom shirts.
Maybe use stretching that word custom forward, but nonetheless you can represent a swimming with freedom good to Cairo diagram. Take you get after it, so good, one in church that war, report you can represent on the path while you're on its mouth from other cool stuff Leah. You like some and get something we have an email list. Here's the thing feel could odd for our competitor, saying, hey sign up on four hour. Email listed. It feel you're saying that. Well, that's because you been condition in your life that every time somebody told you that you did it, you got a bunch of junk. Yes, by. Don't want once see spam necessarily, but yes one. Things were in all I'm down, I'm down for the email is hundred percent. If Oh wait. I do want updates on this stuff right here I come down. I'm not condition
necessarily against it. But here's the thing I have felt the sting assigning The email is hoping that I'll be up dead. With like new cool stuff that they offer whatever. But meanwhile, they're sending me like, oh happy Valentine's day from X Y, see dotcom, say Brown on care about wishing me happy Valentine's day. My email inbox, which, with our email embarked for most have, for some of us will say, I think, most of us, but whatever inbox, it's kind of sacred frosty out of there If, if you don't have something that way, it should be so, anyway. My point there is, if, if you sign up for so you're saying all this not gonna tell when they asked aunt em for nothing. Anyone should do anything ever than ever. Nothing in this case, but I'm saying we do have an email list. If you do want updating hears what are we send out is like if there's a new design or new facility or new would have let it very much for the store
with the occasional, and when I say occasion I mean very occasional exception where, if there's like some important announcement and important is like, it has to be very important. What's an example of an important announcement, that's come out on the list because I must come out yeah, none, ok, regarding the import, sometimes disabled, Bilbil none have been, but I'm saying if there was like hey freakin, no podcast for one month or something that, like I wouldn't debate. A bunch of people any email me are you about, then maybe, but I mean I can't think of anything off hand specifically, but it'll be a real important. I think I will firmly believe that simple Anyone otherwise you're. Just gonna get new stuff every what one some month, maybe once every two three months. Yes, maybe later I'm not gonna, be that's what I'm saying. I realise that it would. Inbox is sacred wherever they are women.
Where do they sign up for this email address listing on chocolate, store dot com at the bottom, Should I make some kind of an email hey, out of things: don't leave everybody alone as like what people are going to like all use. Yeah? You know, and I dig it if its that's, like the Woody call it a bureau got an email from somebody. That's like like you. For the list and then get an email, but it says, is from the person. You are it's from someone so, but there is a mass email. Well, because sometimes it is from that person, but it is a Massey mail, but somebody From like their marketing, companies whatever they want, and I go come on man by felt all good, but This one is good cause is actually from meat there. So I shall try to make look cool in official being followed. On their but but yes, it is coming for me
I have friends that you don't kind, have email list right and and I'm on their email list, but then I'm also have dinner will exchange personally males right about whatever topic and I'll get an email from like an email will show up another. Oh that's cool Sancho, and then I open up units. Why did I ordered a bummer here? What I mean like some errors, the throughout Your name. I signed up for some heiresses email is what it was have happened to be at the same time we're a sword like metal in order, like Norman, that I seen it like from summarised like as serious as Emily, and then it's like his by casting, as I felt that who I signed up for reasons are excellent. That expectation that it's actually him emailing, you be like a great to meet. You are somebody like this about no idea. I hereby yet. You know quite a few friends like that. Where
and you know I don't I'm not a big Munich Gate and I don't have a ton of friends anyways. So when I do get emails from my friends dollars, because I get a lot of business emails, obviously, but then, when people email my personal email, you don't I go up, and then I see that it's a form you MAC not quite safe, but sometimes it has spurred me to email them right, I've got you know I'm. Then they email me back and we have a cool Santa reminds me. I say why what gave me that feeling, like all that's cool, to hear from this person or that person, Maybe they were thinking the same thing, but I am not a email memorable whom I suppose not the token initiative here is an unsafe some initiative and say: hey. I listen you last park after I saw you do that thing and they go
cool you. Don't I mean if so, it's a little indirect prompt to candidate relate to people reach out. Then I can pick up the phone It's true. I well done the less there. You go see, calmness role. The stuff is also if you want to subscribe to the past. Cast on Itunes and sounds kind of work, as you probably earlier subscribe, Maybe maybe not I leave the youth of mean to jump off, but even that subscribers subscribe boom. Let me remind you that that option is available, for you, We also have some other podcast. We have a pike ass, formerly known as the thread which I was this close to renaming, and I and I didn't like it, and then I found that I found the ultimate new name for it already another podcast, which I can't even believe exists with this name. I can't believe has already been taken. So I'm sorry,
in the midst of finding out a new name. For that what was the name? I can't say it, because it's just a magazine, breeds of stuff? You were so let down. I was not the name just wanted and also I want to see if there's a way that I can still manipulate the name enough to use it Ray rare, it got your body, but I don't wanna, give it away. I'll be park ass, where we talk about Jujitsu, which we talk about juicy sail anyway, so but talk about it even more and we talked about life and we talk about everything else on the ground of progress. We got a warrior kid broadcast for you or your kid. We got warrior kid soap, Irish Oats Ranch Stockholm, a young warrior kid making Hope said: everybody out there in the entire world can stay clean we a Youtube Channel, which is where echo takes videos and he puts him on there,
privacy puts modifications. I said last time that he shouldn't be should put enhancements into just the podcast. So when I talk, counter insurgency but weapons, something Should happen, In this you didn't do it whatever. Total lack of initiative, but it's all good. I'm sure there's someone out there that would love to modify these things here. To me, the jury is still out whether now that's a good idea, so you're only going to think about it. Why don't we test it? we see at a time when we do this park ass? You know you make your notes yonder, I little did I do you read me I go when I talk about all. There was a massive explosion. You can a little. No, I guess, as one hour and thirty Sarah S, here's the thing John
for somebody that freaking just puts explosions everywhere. Yes and I'm I'm an explosion advocate this, whereas video goes hundred percent, but here's the thing hissing with that. So Let's say I put a cool machine guns out explosions. You know what everyone, whatever we put in One single person on you too, with what are those ghost accounts that, like you, don't know, profile picture? One of those guys says: that's corny, prelates gonna like devastate me. I think ass. We can do it, that's the indicator along their hardener, I'm just a little bit off and also we got psychological warfare butcher raw meat. Talking about your moments, a weakness, little psychological hitters. We have flip side, Camus, little visual, hitters, footsore, canvas, dot com supported hold a minor while you're at it. We got a bunch of books, code. Revaluation of protocols, leaders extra
Jeanne tactics, field manual way, the warrior kid one: two and three Mikey in the dragons desponding for freedom, few Manual. Extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership check out those books. If you like what we talk about on here, echelon, that's our leadership consultancy. I talked about it a couple today, we solve problems through leadership. That's what we do good echelon front! Doc, and by the way, if you want me to come and speak to your company, dont go to speakers Bureau and dont Google Jacko speaking discretion in front doc. That's what we do. We have e online, which is revamped common check it out its mine courses its online, not just all my courses online might interactive. You want to talk to me if you want to. If you want hang out with Mademoiselle meeting.
You get on that. You have all my dark comp and you will tomorrow. I will be sitting there answering your question. Muster our leadership. Seminar, event gathering Phoenix out Arizona September. Sixteen and seventeen we're doing it. Dallas since December. Third and fourth, we're doing it big, we ve ever done, has sold out extreme ownership doc if you want to come to that, and if you will need? Leadership in your organization. Go to e f over watch dot com. We got military, prior servers, military personnel that understand the principles we talk about in their ready to come to work at your team. Also, America's might! warriors dot. Org Mamma mark these mom, she's out there on the grind, helping in Malta to two different ways. So, remembers active duty, their families go
star families around the world. That's what she's doing you can go to America's mighty warriors dot org to either get involved or just donate, and if you haven't had enough of my protracted discourse, or you need more of echo's arbitrary tales you can find us on the interwebs on Twitter, on Instagram and on Facebook back without a adequate rules. I Jocko Willink and thanks to everyone out there in uniform right now trying to keep order from becoming chaos in your doing it voluntarily. For us any massive thanks to police, and law enforcement out, their fire fighters, paramedics, empties, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol secret service. You do
some of the hardest work in the world. You don't make a ton of money, you do it with massive risk for yourselves. You do it to keep us safe, and we thank you and to everyone else out there. There are lots of insurgencies going on lots of insurgencies happening in your life in your business, in your relationships in your family. In yourself,. It's really easy to say: hold the line Releasing. I said I'll die, but you gotta remember all these complexities, you gotta remit, that more than just brute force, yeah after use your mind, you can't just out laughed out, think you have to give and you have to take. You have to think strategic and you have
play the long game and it's not easy, but that's how you want to go out there and get after it. And until next time this is ECHO and Jacko out.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-17.