This is Jacko Podcast number two. Ninety five with ECHO Charles and me Java, willing Goody yeah good evening on November. Fourteen two thousand one, the troops of General Fushien Con rolled into Kabul and liberated the city from five years of despotic rule by the Taliban over the past dunes in the south and begin operations against the Taliban, the coalition plan to insert to odious near the city of Kandahar, major an old bull dog was a member of special operations, command and control element, fifty two which, tat control of it odious, bolder explain, the mission quote. Basically, from November two thousand one until complete, we were able to provide see too and conduct unconventional warfare in order to advise and assist Huh

Cars I and grew shares. I in organizing anti Taliban forces, which was what they were called at the time and too, doktor, combat operations against the Taliban and Al Qaeda forces. End quote bolder: further described the key tasks that the odious had to accomplish with their afghan partners quote. We were secure, Kandahar City, develop a plan to stabilize Kandahar City and operate from a secure base. In concentric, we improved Security from Kandahar City, which was considered the cultural and religious centre of gravity out too, Provinces in the south and the on order actual. The operational area. Coalition leaders also understood that they could not simply leave the area once can't Kandahar was out of the Taliban Taliban grip, but had

set conditions for the next phase. The campaign. Major bulldog asserted that the end state for the odious was creation of a quote state safe and secure Kandahar City ready to transition to more formalised humanitarian assistance and nation the building operations and not right. There is a excerpt from a document that was written by the combat studies Institute, Press, the? U S, army school at Fort, Leavenworth, Kansas and the document is called a different kind of war the United States Army, operation enduring freedom from October, two thousand and one to September, two thousand and five. And when you think about that, that's

meant that I opened up with fourteen November. That's just over two months after September, eleven two thousand one sixty days and in that minimal amount of time a man go, went from peace, Relative tranquillity to war into chaos and men in the military who had been. Planning another standard day at work. Or preparing for another training, exercise, planning to take a bill it where they could go, get some more time with their family suddenly These men were at war the open peace. I read mentioned major dawn bowl duck. He was obviously one of those men.

Shipped off to Afghanistan. To begin trying to sort that place out and that first appointment in two thousand one was just the beginning for him over the following years he would deploy to Afghanistan and over and over again, and also to Iraq and other parts of the world that were under threat. And that major would finish out his careers of brigadier general and it's an honor to have him here tonight to show, some of his experiences and lessons learned General Baldock thank you for joining us you for having me it's an honour to be here. You know, as I was reading that and just saw that date of November fourteenth two thousand and one- and I was in the military at that time, but. To think of the radical transformation that was about to take place and how come key. We went from this sort of

he's time military tool. Or time military and all that that entails. It's better! That's a heavy situation, Let's do this, let's rewind a little bit and learn a little bit about you, where you can from how you grew up and no sort of how you ended up in a situation that you're in right now so we're so, let's start at the beginning. So the beginning, I was born Laconia New Hampshire Bene. Of the state of New Hampshire for fifty nine years and I'm fifty nine years old, learn my work ethic on our family Farm and Guilford New Hampshire. We had a dairy farm, we had a that bill farm maple syrup. The farm is burning in existence in seventeen. Seventy nine are and we as the second owner of that farm, my grandfather bought it in eighteen, my great grandfather body.

Eighteen, ninety nine coming down from Canada and my my grandfather had thirteen children and my dad was seven of the thirteen and what spoiled extent. Was we worked? Farmers we learn? Rightly we planet guard. Chopped, would you know back in the day we d deep snow my brother and I like we, are harnesses and we would pull the sleds in. We would dump the the maples Open to the into the container, now it's all done by by gravity through through plastic pipes right into the sand. Ass before it was done by good old fashion. Grandchildren Right Europe

and so I wouldn't trade that for anything you got me toughen the winner toughen the summer toughen the fall. I built stone walls- and I need to do so. Moving rocks from point a to point B was never problem. I went to care School and get my butt kick by dinner by nuns on a regular basis. And so when I went to basic training. Eighteen, eighty one after high school, putting a do to me me up early yell at me. I don't know how many times my dad told me I was about as useful as a snowball and help. You know what I mean, but you you know you love me right. He was just trying to prepare me for the world. You notes, not going to. I gotta use your head right. What made you and list in the army, grandfather on the baltic side. Had a policy nor baltic males will serve their country, heating care, It was a national guard, reserves active duty of what service it was, but you will sir, and if you don't serve you not welcome.

And he never served because when he got here he was too old war. He was too old for world will one, but he Nonetheless, my head uncles, it served one were to Korea, Vietnam, every conflict, the Morlocks event, since since world war, two right- and we didn't get here until eighteen, ninety nine and so my grandfather established some some children and some grants before he could distort population the the? U S military, but when I, when I went into the I went into my recruiter in the eleventh great cause. I knew I had to do it so I went in and eleventh great and at that time they had the delayed entry programme where, if you joined early, you get credit for that service plus.

You went in as a mosquito wing private instead of just a slick, sleep, private rights, which was like five dollars more a month. Back then, it will double your basic graduated back. Then it was two hundred dollars a month. So I was very happy right, so good and- and you know Before that, though, in high school joined the police, cadet programme in Laconia, New Hampshire. So funny story how that started right. I am always in tenth grade And we were walking over from high school was asked after Sir. But before we had to leave for a football game and it was an away game and I was walking over the group the guys over to the to the little store to pick up some some child for the bus ride.

And an idea. There's a cook can set up perfect we run on the curb of the road, and I thought man, I'm gonna, go kick that so I started talking about. You know five seconds left in the game of work that kick that ball. I kick that can and it hit the side of a police cruiser fact at the wheel and so I know now Sword Vienna's jumps out of the car and he is still alive Everybody get on the grass railway and on the ground is like who did itself is my hand I go. I did it. Cern puts me in the back of the cruiser and yelling at the other kids in the

my friends and they ran off and I'm sitting in the cruiser, and he goes so? Would you do that for tonight? Explain on that? What I was doing- and you said alright sounds like an accident to me. Because you ve heard of the police, get up programme. I go no sir. He goes while I think you'd be a good kid That programme right, because you had enough falls to own up to it. You know no said Nora, so I did it I got selected night and I started, and I really loved it. So in nineteen, eighty here before I graduate from high school, I I had the opportunity to go through the the part Time Police Academy Programme, and so I did it and I ended up qualified as a police officer. So when I went into my senior year at eighteen years old, I was a qualified police officer working full acone, a police car, and I did that.

A year before I went into to into the army and what in the army from eighty one, eighty, four and we and were you active duty. I was active duty. Ok, it's basically a little bit like a break for you cause you're, not how Honda dare you farm rhetoric it's a huge breaker, while it's a huge break because it's not can you can imagine being a police officer while you're in your arrest senior high school? Mr Popular, that's right, Mr Popular Evereve, every party that got busted up was my fault. I did not I'll obviously had inside information that I passed on to the police and done work. That way. Right I mean we don't care about parties. But your neighbours do, particularly when it gets too loud right. So they call and Just couldn't get that point across, but none the less. You know after serving as a police officer- and you know I mean you Know-

my dad was a taskmaster right. I mean he was strong. Good man who is no longer with us, but nonetheless, serve thirty five years as a as a City, council, men and mare for our City School board, just a great or the community. In addition to being a you know, That would do it would do anything for anybody and so on, I learned all that stuff, but workin on the dairy farm you know hey, hangs worst thing you can do in the world. I mean I hated hang season. One July rolled around, I prayed for rain, ok, we didn't you, can he can't hay and rang I it didn't happen right. I had a guy who was a new guy came to work for me when I was at school team, seven.

And he was a hard working kid up. Ready to move sandbags feel sandbags moves the around didn't, dump ammo pick up ammo, whatever name to. Finally, after weeks, not to impress you have to really hard worker to impress me and after a few weeks, Thomas had he been here. Could he give confidence shown up at my platoon eating? Go through our work up anything use a new guide. You showed up in Iraq, showed up in Iraq and he's working his ass off. And I'm looking to one. I said: Hey Year, Europe worker where you from any set. I grew up in a dairy farm in Minnesota and I said well. I appreciate your hard work. He said, sir, Do whatever you want me to do as long as it doesn't have anything to do with cow was told me his gadget. What are you up at four o clock in the morning? Every day to milk cows get

get home in the afternoon after wrestling practice milk, cows- and it was- I don't know what he had for three hundred four hundred cows he had to milk, so the dairy farm seems to breed some hard work. You know it was baseball or football or whatever happened to be. My dad said I'll see you at the farm, and so I would jog from High school up morals to the farm and yeah whatever he asked me to do up on a farm and self. When I got to be training and met sordid mules via my basic training draw instructor, Now you want me to make my bed. You want me to do this one they do that. You know I was. Before he threw the trash can down. I, because that is the way it was Bryn yeah. He would certainly ball it. You don't sleep. I go and I say, love drills.

Right. I do sleep, but require much you know so the other kind of hard work did it and then the discipline that the nuns instilled in me I mean come on racist, sister Lucille right remain. She sound scared, he s here. She was aflame and red headed nor none just scared the hell out of me and dumb, and she got her pound to flesh out of me, but we were unanimous in high school. I was your: what sports sport surgery? I played the football baseball. Basketball and I was told, you're too small to play for but why sophomore year I was. I was starting on the varsity team society to play basketball. But I was starting guard on the basketball team. I was they told me I couldn't pitch.

But I ended up being a pitcher because my arms were to shorten and I wasn't tall enough and I couldn't get a good stretch off mom. But you also. I think the farmer and me you know, don't tell me, Yet do something kind of thing: Rikers try and prove me wrong so anyways. Well, when you and listen the army, did you do it? We did you plan on. Was it a career? Was it reserves or was it act? If not? Actually it was active duty of care about. My plan was to pursue on enforcement. So, I was coming out of the army and nineteen. Eighty four, I was a sergeant and I was going to our tc green Gold programme not to go on active duty, but it was through the National Guard, and gonna pay for my education, and I was gonna get my commission through our ROTC. The beauty part about.

Prior services. You don't have to do the first two years of our tc because you got basic training any idea about. So you start your junior and senior years right and I I didn't debate, making it a career at all. I wanted to be Law enforcement, but called down. My company commanders office and my first sword was therefore soaring. Kingston in and Captain Jeffrey L aims was there and he reported damn position of attention and he said Charlotte, Can you get now but I wanna talk to you about it because I think you should stay in. I think you should reinvest tonight. You Came down on drill, shorten orders and you shall be a drill short what are your plans. So I just explain, Omar explaining Yoni Cigar I don't see you being successful. As an officer said, journalists

Material Europe you're sergeant major in the making. Just stay on and you should fall that track because you can have the most success. Would that again, little white and back my did you just tell me. I can't do some kind of thing and my you know I took advice and I said thank you, Sir very much, but I followed the different path, while certain sorry Kingston calls me out whose office he puts me in a frontline arrests position any such account loud to fifty. Down real close to my ear, he goes fatalism goes you take and you got aren t see and then When you get commissioned, you find wherever this captain is states Army and you take those bar you put it some way the sun doesn't as recently and I go yes restored. As

now? Twenty two twenty three and you know he's so he's like you get up. So I get up many dismisses me, I am the first lieutenant in special forces, training at Fort Bragg North Carolina and who, the command. Certain major, the sixteenth military police brigade sergeant commands our major Kingston. So here I am the first lieutenant and training, and call his office, and I told you I was, and I asked if I could come overrun and have meaning with them. So this they did that and I went over and I met with them. And he was so happy to see me right Have you found captain aims and I go. No any. You know a lieutenant colonel now and I go now. I didn't know it. Didn't I practice. Career but anyway see He goes. I remember that day that was hilarious, negroes, I'm glad you do and while you're special forces training sets really great, and so we, you know it's just

I didn't plan on going back on active duty, but I did well in our ROTC and I qualified for an active you. No regular army commission and I said you know what this is nineteen eighty eight and it does not look good for jobs after right, so I I'll just go. Normie will see how that goes, and I really didn't anticipate staying too long. As an officer fulfil my requirement, you know and perhaps get up. Ass time, went on and went no special forces. We were so what was your job as an officer we don't have to answer. I will I got commissioned into the chemical core, which was another thing I was like, the heck graduated number one from northeastern universities, Liberty, battalion I was number one and the the explanation. I got is well, you know,

he's gonna be spread out across the army in its based on needs. The army saddling. Ok, sounds like a guess: what was it should Chemical officer chemical off nuclear, biological and chemical option, but you know what when I was looking to get out after my requirement. Wow, good I'll put your big box great opportunities. I was like well The good Lord was smile and on me, because you know and I went to Ranger School and I did all those things that you supposed to do so when I showed up at the combat arms units right- and I had that- you know- I wasn't just a support- guy riding- you know, okay, this guy, prior unlisted ranger school graduate. You know airborne school. You know the whole nine yards and so just give you more credibility and as an enlisted guy served in the fourth idea in the second airborne. So I had that my background it and so, was all good but dumb, but you know yet chemical cool.

Get put on the battalion staff, and you have to do that. You know you You get all the You know nobody's really interested in doing nuclear, biological and chemical, so get over all the interesting assignments, and I did those with a smile on my face in the best of my ability and then you know. I was the first chemical officer to make it through special forces, selection and training. So you were at? What point did you learn about special forces? well. I learned about special forces in nineteen sixty eight when I watch the Green briefly with my grandfather and and so like all while John Wayne, the Green bridge, and also it was always something in the back of my mind and then in Korea, my first lieutenant assignment and dumb the dreamer Recruited showed up when I went, and I said, I'm gonna do that answer

that's what I did where were you in the First Gulf WAR happened In ten special forces group, ok. So we did that there then we rotated over to provide comfort the humanitarian assistance thing up in northern Iraq, which was great experience with the Kurds. And yes, and God just kept open up these look doors for meat and like scoot through an before I knew it was some you know, I was major on my way to command staff collagen. Halfway to waited retirement. You know twenty years I have few extra years because it was the time so I was like you know if I may, lieutenant colonel I'm gonna, be don't pretty damn good. So I was pretty happy potter

so the so you went through special forces in what year through through the selection. I want your selection in nineteen. Ninety two February Eighteen. Ninety two was how, that was a challenging for you did you enjoy. It was what you expected it to be your eyes. Back to the smoke show in that right right and I really like the special food selection process because. Nobody said anything tat. You re all your shirt were written up on board and you had to. Conscientious enough to check that board frequently because they would do things like change it right and then try to catch a right, not pan attention and it was athletic. Of that. You know that you had to do was like right at my Alley: rights those like. Yet good quality smoke show nobody all data, they sleep too,

again and they gave you really good. I called it dumb. I building Barney Rubble machines right because it has like oh his a trailer with only one tyre and here's some straps and here's some poles and You know you got a move at ten kilometers you know they would set up these tat and yet to build, I suppose, gonna farm, like our farmers, like oh, should nightmare. You know. We really believe in over fifty has offers a huge safety hazard right, and so you know of the fixed for for the tractor for the for the the hey bail or when it went down or such like that was, you Know- was all my dear, I then you know my dad's like it. We don't have we don't have time and we don't have the money to go for this machine. So what's you some nylons traps in figure this out right and so that's what training was training was about. You know like hey here's,

bunch of pieces of equipment, figure out how to get it. Ten, kilometers good luck right in work as a team and support each other. So you know? That's what farming's all about and not one person makes that farm run its a collective team. That's my grandfather at thirteen kids, that's why he has over you know five grandchildren up to make it work, you bring everybody together and you just make it work. So that's what I like about you, no special forces training and I like the idea, but not everybody could make it right that there was this. Huge, attrition rape, and so I thought that was cool too, because it was. This was the special thing right, not everybody can get through and only only assert. Type of person can get through. It doesn't make you any better than anybody else just make sure different right and that's what America's

Was there anything that was hard for you or especially hard for you? anything that required height because I'm sure at five foot seven, so you know these things that required height and then keeping up with. Eyes would long legs on the rug March. I would it was Iraq Jog for me to keep up. Because these guys had justice meant credibly long stride and it was like Bless America, you know come on that's Dryden half you, but you know they. They move at their pace and they can't they can't be slackened. Does you know, the instructor Caesar slackened from me up but John? So that's where we did it, and you married when you're gone through special forces. Turning right, yes, yeah yeah, I got married as as a second lieutenant I met. I met my wife Sheridan in College we were both in your ROTC programme. Together,

She was studying nursing and she was. Join the army at seventeen years old had to get her mission. She went into the medical field right down, forts in use and dinner training and she's US cheeses, she's heart is woodpecker lips. I always like always liked to say YO. Surprise for me. Is it in I married a woman that war combat boots? So I was always there was always a cool thing, but yeah she, she was great and you know, and she understood or an army and understood the army were going through, and I always astor right that I want to do this right. Can I get your support You know I mean it's not going to be easy for the family and that's why you know leading up to two thousand one. We had nine eleven. We were gone a lot because during the Clinton years, redounds-

as the conventional forces, a lot of the engagement and stuff felt a special ops. We had to go deploy on all kinds different things out there, so we were gone along and so when we were gone alot after two thousand one, my wife just took stride right, and so when she started here, people say while you know, never home anymore, and she it was she would. She would be to use her experience to explain hey you know this is this is what it's all about right and so she was very, very good inside them inside the family, readiness groups and very very supportive, particularly during deployments, and when we had casualties and sheet. She had that frame of reference, and she was always there. We ve been married for over thirty two years now and I have never she's, never ever faltered

even when I even you know even one. I wasn't a very good version of myself because a post, traumatic stress and traumatic, brain injury and- and you know, pain, management issues, no I mean that negatively affected my personal and professional life to run. You weren't before we get into that when you are talk call the ninety scenario. What's what special forces unit you check into when you got on with special for school fits, forces group for Campbell Content, and then you were doing lots of J sets had never overseas build these relationships, films. The gaps that were left by the downsizing conventional forces. When and what was your, would you did you do platoon commanders, you do a team. Did you do a company command like what was your bill? Is there? So I was a detachment commander, Oda, five hundred and eighty two and third battalion fifth group and are you guys doing like regular deployments?

Would you go on deployment so yeah when in the nineties, when I was in a sealed teams, we would go on a six month appointment. Maybe we go to Asia May we gotta Southwest Asia? Maybe we don't wanna ship, but you're doing work up and you're goin on along deployment. You guys are scattered like that, exactly like that, exactly like that, but would fit group to one or two places. It was either Eastern Africa normally Kenya war, it was in the Middle EAST, and we had an ocean. Wait. You ve Oman Saudi Arabia. Jordan places there. We must

Ross path itself toward a log which we had to Lord redrawing exists. I did a bunch of shipboard deployment in the nineties and one where I wasn't on board a ship or yet we are costly, Poland, all those places and doing whatever kind of exercises DIS. He's always over there, one of the one of the interesting deplore, What's that we went on that, I thought which was really really good to work on your trade craft was some J T F. Bravo, the drug interdiction missions We did on the southern border and we would we deploy four hundred and twenty days to the southern border, and we worked from the Texas border, New Mexico Border Arizona in California. We culminated in California in Cleveland National Forest search. Four marijuana field in and getting scared to death by

Booby trapped right Keziah, they were everywhere and- and He would track somebody and then we find out there actually track and us and also was like wholly crap right in America I mean and so, but we would get into our spider holes and we would you know we would you know I mean we would practice I remember, given my betraying commander briefing, say we're gonna I'm going to be in these holes, guys going to be in the holes for seventy two hours and then we're going to under the cover of darkness, rotate them out, get them back to the to our. You know mission support site, yet a debrief and we're gonna send back the phoenix to recover and wholesale right, clearly kid: we we had this whole process and gonna, be we we made are spider holes and all our camouflage out of people,

She pipes in Ireland that right and we break it all down U pack and then you set it all up and you dig your own hole and that's what you're going to be in right and we we even came up with You know different exercises in spike, as it could get out spiral so he got so what you gonna do them with the human waste, while we're gonna carried out without any goes up and carried up once again, when carried out with us. I'd like to see that So I delivered to him ass, a hefty bag full of excrement repeated- and I put it run on his desk and as a dirty, sir I'll, never forget the look on his face. Certain major commence, our major pulled me sign. You said that was either the most did you ever did at the time.

Commander or the dumbest time will tell. Let's do it as soon as you said, I'd like to see that I said all that he didn't. Oh yes, he did so yeah. Those were interested. I never did those missions, but I remember platoon gettin sent out to determine its basically do and reconnaissance of drug trance roots coming across the border law across the southern border. We went away and we would do a radio it in to the police and they would do the interdiction and it was just ass. It was just just a great mission as we knew too in some for our country and We knew we were also train in the hell out of us was with these these. You, no special reconnaissance techniques that a bit they see a they compromise. You done so I mean. Is it was good. So where were you when September eleventh happened? I was.

Operations offshore for third battalion or second battalion fit special forces group and we were getting ready to go to Jordan, for what was The largest socks you. No special operations command sent com, joint chiefs of staff missions. They basically took about five joint Chiefs of Staff Picture combined em all we're gonna be headquarters. Jordan and include each oh man, you ve Kuwait, and it was all over that geographical area, we're gonna, be doing all kinds of decentralized missions and stuff in these countries, and- airborne operations and we had a at a ranger company with us, and it was, it was also right, put us all. The first time they were ever gonna. Do something like that and I really like

because it was a regional approach to solving problems right instead of a country by country from the focus was really great I'm a big, big believer in this regional thing. I think it works out better when people get together and try and help each other solve each other's problems, as opposed to just focusing the one country. At a time when aways I do want to die so we were getting ready to go over for that mission. I'm sitting in my office day before getting re, deploy nine eleven it and I down the hallway to my boss, his office and I put on the television. I go, Sir check this out. A time. I turn it on. The second plain hid it in- and I said sure I think we're under attack and I said it looks like we're. Gonna hit every single one of our national parliaments, power and Pentagon gets it in the plane, goes down in Pennsylvania, obviously headed, probably towards capital. Wherever that was

usually, they hit the economic. They just hit the military they're on their way to the political and army o crap. President of the United States cancelled every single exercise, except for the joint next because that was so important to the king of Jordan to have this thing tat this exercise because it was, he was the hub country right and so we deployed and we did it, and it was shortened from forty five days to thirty days and nights in a we went directly from Jordan to his Uzbekistan Mission planning and then and then into were into Terry Afghanistan cars. So you complete this training operation in Jordan, which have been strange doing this freak in training operation when you know that the world is like a ticking time bomb right, it was

for watching the news all time and in our work I'm actually getting messages from higher headquarters get ready. You gonna go usually sore. We go the. Why guys and ops guys nobody planning to move us from Jordan to Uzbekistan, but at the same time we have five hundred and sixty thousand moving parts for this five country, operation and people doing airborne operations live fires, you know, seek you be. You know I may just all kinds, a high adventure trading right and you know we're doing joint and combined airborne operations? So you got picture this. He had Americans Jordanians in depends on the same plain, get ready to jump out. Ye ha right, as you know, is far as I'm concerned. That's a you know. I mean

we train them, but then on a surly, follow an arch up in the way some of them exit the aircraft was like a crab. Are you kidding me so It was like a lot of the sirens lookin at me, going to kill me I, like. Okay, I hope not yeah we're, not that's, not the intent right, but I'm like hey. We got to do this right. I mean that's what it is and they would they would make sure it was great and it went off without a hitch, but so then, from there you go to Uzbekistan, Pakistan, and and now are you guys gettin? You guys got the tasking. Ok, your own Afghanistan! You gotta go to Uzbekistan STAR Planet right because how many guys though it was Missy fifteen of us And and Colonel Fox had to pick em PLO, he picked them fifteen of us one off and then each turned over the battalion to the actual,

in the actual stayed in place and in Jordan and then slow, but surely he would rotate the teams in two Pakistan has space opened up so what you get to Uzbekistan. I mean, what's Dear Mamma, what's that atmosphere with the team how much do you guys know about Afghanistan prior to that? Nothing nothing absolutely did you. Did you learn a language as a special forces officer? I did. I learned egyptian Arabic. Okay now I passed the Lange, tat. We were not always you want or horse, encourage our dna with the lowest score of that you could get on the defence language aptitude battery test. Apparently God didn't give me the ability to learn from it.

And I did I struggled through what spanish in high school in college, but I struggled through and I get through it anyways, but nonetheless so The lowest score qualifies me for a romantic language like french and spanish and italian, and what are they send me to fit special forces group with languages is egyptian arabic category. For language, and- unlike really you want me to fail, is that it You know like anything else- test scores yeah they mean some. But they don't test. You don't test your will to do your best right, so I ended up graduating with the two plus two plus and and got language seventy five dollars a month and

And I was just you know: I called two plus two plus just being dangerous enough to us. You know, use a foreign language, you know it's like it's like being a first level black belt, martial arts right you're, just danger enough to get yourself hurt, but it looks cool rang Nonetheless, it is what it is, and I am. I did that, but the gyptian Arabic does you absolutely no good in Afghanistan, Would push to in urdu to you, Can we back them so you're back a stand. You're coming up with a plan and and whose giving you direction at this point. What do you guys get in for a mission tasking? Are you getting clear directives? or is it more hey go start to put something together so too of our seniors everything

moving so fast and everything was coming out of the Pentagon in the National Command Authority so quickly so rapidly that you know we weren't get anything right, and so basically we had two teams- and then a command and control element. That had to be led by a lieutenant, colonel and that came directly from the sector. So might So it's not even the standard way that we would deploying into a theatre of operations. She get two teams with obtain common. Or in a very small staff that were see to it now. Third, Torreon had the north second battalion had the south and first battalion head in all the the Kabul by growth area,

and so when we got there was like our eye. You got the south medical link up and harm it cause. I you get these two teams: one's gonna come from the south. One's gonna come from the north, can't figure it out. So we did, and I was happy to figure it up, because it was good how'd. You guys get him so we went image. One excuse me empty one. Thirty, to tackle the bad Pakistan in this this is really. It is really funny because we were told, ok, you're gonna get there. And you're gonna go, find the special OPS Airforce unit. They're, the ones that are going to fly. You win to current cow Afghanistan where you link up with a group of Afghans and then I'll? Take you to Harvard College so that

That was the plan. That was a point. That was a point and where did I find the air force guys in the metal, because I looked all around Jacobus Bed hormones in my boss is like I got, sir. Let's go metal of good cough, and so there they were there in the metal. And so they bring you open, like tables sometime. Yes, that's exactly an image. Fifty three, we won't run it. We took fire goin in one of them was hit. They still brought us in. We did her what I the Collie control. Crash landing. I mean it a hard landing. We off fellow, the place inside the damn thing we jump out. The one advantage we had was nice night vision, goggles, we didn't know where, were or who they were, but I had worked on. I had worked on one pashtun sentence. Please take us to Hammad cars. I worked on that over and over

and we land. We hit the ground ass, their rywhere, a few minutes for the dust, the saddle we get into a v formation The planet we had was a go, Colonel Fox. I go sir. Will move forward, once we see him well said: insecurity walk forward with my were her sentence and will go from there. You guys point you weapons, I'm not gonna point my weapon out, but I'm gonna have it at the ready. Just in case I need it and I can see him there all all these ads about ten Afghans and they're all pointing their weapons at up at me and I'm walking up- and I look at him- and I got these ok. Forty servants right in my face and all could come out with. Was armoured cars that's only they could say well, her sentence gone gone and they gave me

good good to go, and you know I called up as we came up, they put us in trucks and Twenty minutes later we were meeting on the cars I in a mud hut and then we D started doing mud hut, diplomas for what mud hut diplomacy of work. It looks take a bunch of afghan sitting on the ground with us in front of a map and we're telling them. You know what we're saying from our aircraft and the sky and are they bad guys? Are they good guys and then we're coming up with intermediate place on the ground to go to in our food convoy that we did. This was a disaster Little did we know that that they would all huddle around harmonised vehicle. Consider one anything happened to him.

Had cars I in the wrong spot, so we had motorcycles and Toy Oda corrodes and pickup truck. We lost complete control of this convoy, and then we stopped to pray. Right in the middle. Is this really safe place to stop brain? But it didn't matter it's time to pray, gonna. So we did that. So what we did was we figured out on the next one that we would put our guys up front for security And we put cars, I back there. And nobody would pass car xyz vehicle. So we maintain now. If you turn around and looked at that gag back there, it lacks earlier mad max yeah, really that's a great way to us to explain it and but it and so that's what we did and as we move forward, we got

more and more village, elders and tribal elders in the meetings and then, of course you know, people are talking about concerning what, if someone comes in, opens up and said, the Place- and I said, wild chance, taking a minute. Just part of the part of the Part of the operational by you you can't mitigate all risk. You can't write best your best, but there's gonna be some risks that you're gonna have to take to achieve your mission and they weren't in the mood for us to disarm. They weren't mood for us the search him they were in the mood for any of that right. We to prove ourselves to them. And then they had to get comfortable with us. And we just had to trust you, no cars I and trot the CIA, guys that, were there cars. I would just as nervous as we were just as concerned as we were because slang we wanted was was cars. I do to get hurt, cause he's on the phone with all of the news outlets right.

In the middle of a briefing would get a call hey, you know, you know whatever his name is Dan. Rather whoever wants to talk to him right you, take an interview right there and then you have, Bon Committee. That was meeting to figure out. You know the government and who's going to be the interim prime minister and, of course, Karzai's at the top of the list. They want to talk to him that they call up. They want to talk to about stuff aegis and to sit there and listen to it. He was really good. He was really knows he did really rule good job- and I had a lot of hope right, but beyond things get politicizing things happen and you no longer things go on. He AEGIS

just you know. I really thought he did a great job, particularly the beginning there and the way he manage risk and the way he made decisions in the way he handled and then the respect that he got. It was right guy at the time and and so it was. It was just a very, very interesting to see that and of course, in subsequent the point, I had a personal relationship with cars lie, so I could average that pretty easily as a result of that very first rotation. To explain something that had looked like in Kabul had gone wrong. But there was a lot of things in between where it happened and what was being told in what was being put out by the Taliban. It won't true

and I was able to get communications to him to be able to say that the way it went down, sir. Please please man, my heart in the right place, and he would now knows You know things go wrong, weren't you involved in Asia You know a fratricide incident where a bomb was dropped on here on your location. Rivers on that one I myself that what a day so we were at shall, while we call twenty kilometers north of Kandahar, which was our our operational objectives. We had to take an from tell them. The religious centre of gravity was more important to take Kandahar. And it really was to own Kabul or harassed or Emmi ass, your mother sharif because of the significant

and we had one presidential mission and that wish to. Determine whether the cloak of Mohammed in the mosque in Kandahar was still there, because it was a huge concern in the in the muslim community, All in all, we back the MECCA right with Saudi Arabia me. This is big deal, and so you know We we would do and combat operations for three days north. Here I mean we had to go through a pass and this passion I ground was a bridge, it was, it was watered. Front, and it was very well defended by the Taliban and Al Qaeda and they given this ground up variously And we were doing an operations leading patrols tried it wrapped him. We were, we were engaging onwards. You know

if fifteen's and so on so forth, and it was gone. Pretty it always gone real well, and we were getting people that were, Switching sides, Afghans who comes which side and they were given. Rate until and stuff which is always shocking for Americans to hear about people, switching sides and at its very common, especially in the arab culture- and I that there is a question I want to say this is an Osama Bin Laden quote that you know that the people gonna bet on the winning horse. So basically, if you're strong and your winning people like ok, that's her were put in our money on, and so this is what you are seen on. The ground was as the coalition grew and as cars I got more people, people are looking around on, he's, got more people and they it's almost like a mob mentality of join in joining that team. Absolute, absolutely and in it you know, required flexibility and adaptability on our part, not enough. I know colonel,

ox which has never really comfortable with it. Are I don? Where did people come from, and I said well, sir, they came, they came from overnight they came from over there? And he goes these guys? Nor can I go. Oh yeah, the furnace and now there with us, and we got the m you know they're all vouched for, because in all this is my cousin. This is my brother. This is Megan, and so hey are right and we get the sword major telling us. You know it's. Ok, we got you know with scorn. Thank you very much. I like very much, and also he. And he goes and we're gonna arm. Given bullets and everything- and I said well, yes, where we are and any use so he was never really quite comfortable with it and he goes because you you're good with this, and I said sir, I don't know if we have a choice of one but yeah I'm good with it. You know I grew up in a small town in New Hampshire.

And I can see the same thing happened in there. You know people sitting on the fence? You know his historically, it we ve seen. You know where the passive people start when, in the people that are winning- and you know before their passive Mather active and vice versa. So yeah, I think I think, will be ok right. And it s all right. When for you, though, if you wrong in our right up, that's that's for sure so anyway, as we are, we're doing this and its body thirty in the morning, and we get some good Intel and you know we get cars? I would get a good decision from him and we start we start operations up while very, very good process for clearing our fires, we had a great s, a guy on the ground, and we have.

So what we know errors in we are we need, a build up our four structure going into f. Going into Kandahar. So we took this point. We took this point in time to bring in some additional argument, is right and was about twenty four hours. Before this had happened? So what we did was we we did a good transition with everybody, we had attack peek a man and he did good transition. As two years and learned all the recipes and earth and like that and. Our esteemed sky in the Tec, P had changed over So just so everyone knows these. These are the guys that call for fire there was also an attack by a nasty ass. These are individuals that are trained, that's what they do. It's I mean. Obviously it's a really hard job. One mistake can be deadly and death

focused on in its great to have those guys because that's what they do for a living right answer, you had a transition taking place where you're going from one guy. They ve been with you now you're York for growing you got, some extra guys are going to be able to help out they're, just showing up so there, quite opposite to up to speed. Yet that's correct, that's correct, and- and so they did their transition. We had got- a male and for the first time so guys were now it weren't directly involved in doing anything, we're opening up their mail- and you know I had done, a walk around are sensitive area, which was an old soviet mortar pit right up in the high ground. And had walked around had gone down the hill. Just

to the bottom of the hill and is big explosion out of nowhere and I don't know how much time had passed be honest with you, but I pick myself above the ground. I had pieces of body parts. All over me blood all over me, I'm doing a quick assessment of myself. I got a real bad injury. Would my leg and uh yeah dazed walkin around and it is utter. May we get Afghans down with Americans down legal grounds, cookin off we get our peaches cook him off On all over the place, I start walkin around, I start grab our guys. Are we

down to where cars I was, and we made sure he was okay and he was with his CIA guys and they had secured him. And the guys that were with him securing him, I asked them if they would go out and reconnaissance place to bring in helicopters, because I knew- you're gonna have have to of back here and out two hundred metres. We had casualties right. It was was a mass all twenty of the. U S guys on the ground were injured some way or another, some more than others and we had. Designated a casualty control point and I got my coms guys and we had to find some. We had a kind of like girl. Take coms equipment

Cannibalize it from other stuff to make to reestablish comp communications will hire headquarters. I found colonel fought and he was he was dazed and confused just to the point where you would just not coherent about what was going on so make sure that he was taken care of and went up on the hill. We started pulling bodies off right with all these rounds cooking off I didn't get guys off the top of the hill getting him down and we knew we had to get complete. Comparability of everybody. We did that knows mission and went back up on the hill to where his position was, and that was

ground zero of the impact of the two thousand pound bomb from be fifty two thirty five thousand feet and I searched everywhere. I found his hat and I took. Hat and I started picking up bits and pieces and I put it inside the hat and put the hat inside a bag, and I parked it and that's how he was identified. But there was nothing to sent home. Absolutely nothing and another. One of our guys, it was killed, was completely torn in half

I found him under a vehicle. His chest was still heaving. His legs were over here, just Lahti was separated from it and I start doing CPR on him and some finally grab me on the shoulder. No sir. No good work, his torn and have so many ways we get him in a body bag and we get him off. And then we had one guy that was not gonna, make it but was still alive and we kept him alive and we got em Eve ACT when the moon had coordinated e back. We got a b team special forces company and in an odious to commend back fill that came in from our heads

waters. We got all the guys out and then we started doing me they after action in regrouping, because we still have this was five December. We still had to go and take Kandahar so me my assistant s, three, the Baton commander and Como guy. Despite our injuries, we state on the ground in order to be able to coordinate the pushed again are so we did that Regrouped, we got is many Afghans out, as we possibly could, that were injured that wasn't something that higher wanted to do, but we talked him into doing it because it was the right thing to do so. We got our afghan partners in fact out

we helped with the casualties for them as well in the village, and everybody came out and help from the different areas around the village, and we just said screw it. We're gonna, we're gonna hit that we're gonna hit that bridge- we're gonna hit that pass and we're gonna knock em out of there and we went through the wheels there right. This was eight December and we went right into Kandahar and we took- can harm the after action on that, though I blame myself to this day.

Transition between the s- yes, an attack p was really good, but the Tec P had changed batteries and and those old soft lambs that we use to target designate when you do that. The grid resets to your position so before you send anything or confirm anything with the aircraft got to make sure that you have your grid system swear and that was the mistake that was made and eyes. I go over this in my mind, over and over and over again, even to this day, I think to myself

I should have been there to make sure that that I should have got an in person briefing from the TAT p that he knew all those procedures. I should it got there and I didn't get there and because I didn't get it I'm because of wearin combat and because of all the things that you talked about earlier. You know a mistake with me and I was in charge of those operations on behalf of Colonel Fox. I was my job and I didn't do my job, in my opinion, to the best of my ability and we had that amount per, and you know why I learnt the lesson and I'm sure a lot of people are big lesson, but at the end of the day

it's dumb, you know, there's not to keep talk about it, and you know in your in your book, their extreme ownership, the fog of war and Clausewitz and his explanation of the fog of war, and I mean it's all there right and you what you can do. In some cases, Can only do so, much is lost things going on. But in retrospect it becomes clearer and as you say, you gotta take extreme ownership, Right not only on those things, go well most important on those things that don't go well,

at what point did you realize it was a friendly bomb? It wasn't until I was talking to the Tec P, who is seriously injured and he was apologize and he said I but sir. I mistake. I dont think that I I cleared that grid like I supposed to do, and I said hatless mistakes happen. These things happen, please, you need, you need to focus on keeping yourself and he was seriously in. You need to focus on keeping yourself alive, so you can get home to your family. You think that.

The boys of now I noted the stake. Is I've spoken to him quite a bit in the burden that he carries, but at the end of the day you know For the war snakes happen so leadership, bonds. Billy. But it wasn't until then that I realized crap. We get if we get from fires in here and so many investigation team came down to investigate. We were already and canned on it. We were already set up, but we had already written our statements and you know I had a pretty packet form, knowing anticipating what was going on, and I think you do but that your book as well, you know one one, the fire and it ok. Let's.

We know a whole bunch of ships. Gonna come raining down on us, so let's get ahead of power curve and let's make should find out what went on and we tell the truth and we get the accurate assessment. What went on and we came down and and it was breeder gentle barford. He was the young jeopardy commander for you, a special operations command he's one that came down and let the investigation sat down with it So this is what we can. We got him out to the spot, so we could see a man. You know we gave em we gave em up in all good briefing on that what we were doing and how you doin it and we had taken softly him and we had isolated it been damaged but nonetheless wouldn't be Newsday more and so had everything for him in a nice reaction and I go ahead. This is

that environment we don't want. We don't want to have them come down here and have to expose themselves to danger here, while they're doing the situation, but at the same time we want to make sure they get to where they need to go to a thorough investigation and the most important thing is lessons learned. Soldiers never ever happens again, and I You weren't, nine more rotations, never happened to me again. Never happen in a unit that I served in again, because we made sure that you know This kind of lessons were applied and over and over and over again right there. When I over the training for the West Coast sealed aims at the tactical pre deployment training. I would put those guys impositions all the time and they would every single group. Everything up to every single troop. Every single task they'd, get a blue ombu and Sit down and say I want this to happen here, so you realize how it happened, so it doesn't happen overseas, like it did to me

It's the best thing you can do is take those lessons learned in and spread the word. So it doesn't happen again. I can tell you that there still- still guys on our road there's all three of them, That we lost. Still- boy must still boy in the chain of command from it and that's. Ok, I take that responsibility fully, accept it and I understand where they come from, and that's just Hopefully it has made me a better leader as a result, and no one else am I gonna do right, except acknowledge it, and in a move forward, because my responsibilities in leading demand as result of that Yeah I mean even to those those guys it were lost in

God, rest their souls, but at least here, the lessons that we learn from that horrible, as they may be, at least theirs. We know, as you said, no operational you oversaw after that ever had another incident, so there likewise save lives, and I know that some horrible and one way, but it's the truth of the matter- It's also true. Send yeah never had another. Blue blue incident in me, I'm commanders, siege, sort of fake manner and as a general offs level commander in Afghanistan and combat never ever had another one and Tom. We tribute that too, of course the experience of the guys as we go through, but most Fortunately, you know. Leadership and learning their indispensable right, and so you gotta go to move forward and that's what we did so

So you guys Roland Kandahar in its. Pretty much no factor but but resistance level Rowan and account arc the resistance level was minimal. We got ambushed going in and we took care that we kept going. We get to the more or Mars compound, and it is there, are vehicles everywhere, covered with mud, because that's what they did to try and hide from our aerial observation they covered there circles with mud are predator right. So we we sit and I was a way for us to identify if they were. If they were bad guys. Good guess is bad guys worker under cars, with

but here it is again. I looked a jerk. I looked at colonel factionists at Acer. Look the parking for the bad guys another on our side, and he goes. I don't get shot. And then we went to the jail and we brought John Mohammed John that was a very very close friend the cars and he had been imprisoned by the Taliban and tortured very very long time and he became the governor of Horrors God and he up there and he met with cars. I and. And this is a guy- that I developed very good friendship with over the years- no matter what job I had going. In the Afghanistan in his mine. I was the commander of all special forces. If I just what's not- and I will tell my dont- hey- listen, I'm just for the tank manner here. I just got these guys, you go so no! No! No! You are the commander of all special forces and he would tell me,

to that end. It would get the news right and I get a phone call and I got I didn't tell him right. So I lose your job is like a commendable special. While he was, he was a wild. Always had been while manner. If there's one guy that you wanted implicates oarsmen province was you know, I mean it volatile man, it was full allocated. We needed a guy like that, go up there and you know Queen House The way he was clean and house in the way that you know it was accepted when the international community was two different things. And so we have very close eye on that, but nonetheless he gets there and he goes, I'm our need furniture so starts going in the wrong and he starts going. I want that. I want that. I want that, And he goes in a more all Mars office.

And I wasn't with them, but one of the guys was in there any concern over many good you're gonna get over here. He goes the guy that we just let out of jail, he's gone. Bathroom on top of moral or Mars desk I got a wife and I go in there and he left. A mess on top of that desk, and that was his. Would he felt he needed to do He told Karzai, I'm on my way to ORR's going to province. When I get to Tarin Kowt I'll, let you go I'll, let you know and we'll start clearing that place out and cars. I put governors in Oregon. Provinces of all problems for our products numerous province, Helmand Province, helmet wisdom, one that we got the largest number of Taliban Al Qaeda operational russian equipment out of

and we had to negotiate that right and negotiate that way Oh man later there did. You know he, wouldn't you know you'd be. Rita go off into every wanted to do in cars. I said I don't care and sharks. I was the governor of Kandahar now the gun of Kandahar. Is the senior governor in the south that just how works will delay power even though you have governors and all the other provinces, so he pretty much lay down the law and order as things and But surely you know started seeing security in southern Afghanistan just shape up and then and how long did you stay in Afghanistan for that first rotation from November two march in them

the z left in March, two thousand and two right had the govern has been put in position yet: oh yeah, their opposite, showing assembler. So that point, there's a pretty good, looks good. Looking pretty good at this point, it looks real good, looks, real good, one of the afghan way and and the Airfield in Kandahar was something that we wanted to you're so that we could use it to bring in and bring out in supplies and stuff like that. So. General matters. One sturgeon at the time the Marines got that mission, and so- their operational area, which was really confined to camp airfield, and then we had the

see just sort of north up in Uzbekistan and then. Then Commodore Harwood came in to do so sort of South Kandahar any side by side with, with general matters. And we were in Kandahar and our soul vice and assist responsibilities centred around Sures. I at this time, because cars I had gone up to take to be the interim prime Minister bankable, and so everything that we did we did through within by cars. I urge shoes, I in

would nation with she'd sort of north. Who was she doing us and then Commodore Harward? Who was she doing a separate direct action unit on a candle out of the cannot airfield? and we got this task list from from Sif like right, the com, forces, which was the three star headquarters sites and so it was about a hundred navy different places they wanted to go to, and that was our task. Two to go do that we had to get that done so when you go to remain go to they do not. They thought it was places that had intel or had bad guys in it and under hundred eighty of evermore dry, who, like towns, villages are like actual target packages targets round without the target judges who just a lot of Saint Andrew. I always think there suddenly, but the

she's dead. All hundred medium were dry holes, but the places that we got all the Peters and all the stuff that that some of them learn was working on and with whom my was working on were given to us by the Afghans and were underground hake. They worked out They worked out and out there were others and, and We would get a calls, and here we got ok, then she that's. Where became tricky, because Taliban were Afghans, so you get them and they either switch sides. They didn't switch that right if they didn't which side. While you know you know, Afghans, would do a deal them to Afghan war right and custom. Whatever Al Qaeda different story, they were Arabs and oh, we had to be very, very careful,

because it was only one fate for them if they got in the hands of the Afghans who had been family, said: men, killed, tortured and so on and so forth, and I don't have any real love for them. Right so that was a whenever we gotta report in San Volcano certain suspected allocate a guy. We would go home. And we would take- we would take them into what I would a protective customs right and then we would move them by our own means to be interrogated and by you know, coalition side of the house right and so not. Sir he's got a difference between the Taliban and Al Kate at the time. On the ground and how they were just you have dealt with differently. We ain't really worry about the Afghans. Cosette

switch side, but it was the it was the out. It was the allocated because they were from mine, they were from Saudi Arabia, they were from Pakistan. And they were from some other place right and not what but did not. They will not work, and you know one of them, worse places to go moment. First got there was the soccer field, because that's where all the hangings headings in the stoning of women place. I mean stoning, women and in killing a children for flying a kite. We handed out thousands of courage when we get down there because their huge kite flying folks, they have competitions now, whether tat each other with Kate. You know it's a sick. This huge think anyways they loved right. We got them their music without them things to play with them as equals.

Business is one of the one of the first businesses that we establish was a woman's on laundry and then we use the clean our own stuff, because by the time, strategic thinking, rather for the time we get to Kandahar, we stop dry. Armenia was pretty bad, so anyways we did that, but I'll never forget I was on. It was forty four clock in the morning. I was up on the Kandahar Governors Mansion and I was doing my had my night vision. Goggles and I got my afghan partners and to keep them awake. All you can do is give him the goggles cuz. It was like It is amazing that right it was amazing. Him see that technology could seek as they job. And then you go back downright, and I know you can see me on the radio, but I mean it, you know, just is what it is, but but there and I see the bakery that we had established, and the guy goes in for work and he gets in there and he starts opening up. That's what we got our bread every morning and that man,

bread, football, shaped bread, it was warm, it was the wishes. At that time we were getting peanut butter. Jelly sent to us. My wife's sent me a tub marshmallow because on from New Hampshire, fluff motors, really good right, but a marginal sounds. So I was looking forward to it. But I'm watching this guy not go there. He is going to doing his thing. He starts against the bill all done and he gets in the butt. With his feet and starts needing. And I'm like, I did not just see their you, you unsee unseen like, and I know what his feet look like a grey and I'm thinking to myself. It's done I can't bread again right We go, get the bread and I'm sitting down and battalion commander sitting there and watching

Can I go arc, as I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you. This is what I saw tonight I gotta share this worthy. I hope I don't ruin for anybody. Morally obligate azure lawyer I gotta share and I did and they looked Nay, nay, guy occupation. I'm eaten his bread and use the brick oven, burned it all off, and I go for our kids There I can't get their rights, are gonna ruin for me, but anyways biscuit so by the time you leave for the first time in March. Do you know it? like things, are going pretty as good You can want them to go two thousand to it when you get there again. So I was interesting. Get selected to be these fits special forces group S three, so I get bumped up. The Thai and go up to the group level and,

were now, of course sustaining operations while it had gone to a different group, so we didn't have to worry about Afghanistan, anymore, fiscal when we there there, because it was third group but then we got the warning order form I rack, so we start planning Iraq and then I get called into my group commanders office. MRS Hake, you just got by name, requested to go, do an interview, to be the secretary, the army's eight joy. I go, sir. I just got the job that I've always wanted. Group s. Three I mean did then get a bird madness, but in a special forces- and in my mind anyway, as like sir, I I don't want you that Ngos will you have a choice, and you better not blowing, because we need an nice guy at that level. It's never happened before

so we need you there right we need you there. So you go there and you do the best you can. If you dont get picked, don't worry bout but dont sabotage. So I go there and Tom White is a secretary and I do my interview and I'm sitting at home and I get a call Tom White Dog You gonna be my aid, we get to it getting. Can I go home crap, so I come boss. I tell him many go Jack. Graduations, it's great gonna be gratefully! Yes, if we blow up a sloppy because. The entire time. I was aid there. I never got a call from the US if it happens, but I did what I was told to do and I went there and I was the aid for Tom Light and what a great expert

Why don't you do it for what a great one year saw you get right and then you move on and then so That's what you year that that you were the aid, two thousand June, two thousand to two June, two thousand three got it right and then I went What did you before you jump in a way I went next? What did you you know? You said it was a great expense. I was fortunate enough. You know it's working as you can get would become an ear. I was fortunate enough to be the aid for for the seal, admiral, ammo Maguire and, definitely levels was he's great guy, great guy, but I was very lucky that I was able to do that job, because I've got to see a lot and got to understand what was happening and understand how these high level decisions were made and see little bit into the future. What was it? from your experience, what did you see that? Would you learn that was important? Well, what you just learned, but

more importantly, I learned How do you know how these decisions are made inside the the political level right from the top and all these things that are done so when I got back to tactical level I explained the guy's what's goin on at the strategic level and although although they may not like it at least I at a familiarity and an understanding and be, although explain on, what's going on in the whole process, and why were sitting here? You know waiting, be ordered to go, do something or what what have you. But, learned how the army worked sitting alone. A lot of us go through hell There's a lot of guys that get promoted to general officer and they don't even know how the army works right, they ve never been in a job that taught him have. Army works just a matter, so you know there, I am you know you know, I'm the battle body, the sector, the army. You know- and

He depends on me for everything right and dumb, and it was a phenomenal opportunity to learn how the army works and how the We fits into the larger service and how, joint Chiefs of staff works and you know, now how all these things go in, and so you know I did not want to leave the group three job at all. I just didn't want it one. I got asked a question by victory white. You know. Do you want to be late? You want to stop My answer was shrubby honoured to serve as an aid, but I'd rather be The special forces group S three. And I was told later that's why get the job cuz but he also interviewed, wanted to be day- and I didn't gave it to the guy that Denmark and

What they're gonna give hope hundred ten percent like? I would, do any job. If they made me the floor, sweeper be the best. Man slept for an army right, that's just the way. It goes right. You just go, do whatever job, they give you and do it best of your ability. And then you know, no good things will happen, and so I did that and then I went over to get picked up. The lieutenant colonel and I got picked up for tying command first time through group and I have do some joint time. So I went over and I worked for, I was, second of offshore for the assistant secretary of defence for special operations, wantons conflict? So then I got to see how the always teamwork and right and how Oh that one and I always like to say how it works and doesn't work right is Wilson so right, but it is good excellent experience. And I met some really great people, air that I

ships with to this day, but that was three. June two thousand three, and then I went and took command of that special forces. Group first battalion third special forces group, the desert eagles. Did to back to back towards to Afghanistan, air and That was so. That was also one of the only battalions it ever did back to back towards it just await worked out, so we want they're for nine months came back for six, my back for another nine months, and then I went up to use a soccer worse than the amount of continuity. Is one thing that when you compare, it's a world war two with either the end of green war or the Vietnam WAR?

where you have guys come on towards they're gonna do a year and then going to leave, and that's that's that. That's almost continuity will, when you do nine months there, six months home in the nine months back there, you start to get some real continuity what did you see in that department or the Two deployments you get to see like a bigger arc of the story, yes with with a better herbs thread through it, so we really saw the sea Reemergence and the resurgence of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in two thousand five away there may of two thousand five is when we got there now now obvious two thousand and three, I think I might cut you off when Europe opposite as before, but to fail three things are looking. About as good as we could hope in Afghanistan. The war kicks off in Iraq. That means people are american soldiers, Resources are now porn into Iraq, that sort of becomes the focus.

And that allows over in Afghanistan, where we had a big presence. Now of sudden that's drawn down now the sudden, the Al Qaeda and Taliban start to see opportunities yet, and so, when you roll back in its now two thousand five and now they ve taken advantage of some of these opportunities. They have taken advantage of the opportunities and I'll, never forget September. Eleventh too, thousand five. I was on a hill top with Charlie company commander and in the Kandahar Province and their. Or fifteen hundred way after wave of tat

Ben fighters common ass. It was unbelievable September. Eleventh two thousand fought: thou snows. I've been in autumn two thousand and eleven a meanness eleven two thousand one one that longer right and you're right I mean we had it look good in two thousand to two, on three and four. We. Didn't have the resources that we needed, but we still doing nation building, we were still building an army were still building the police were putting together their justice system. We are putting together, their constitution saw and so forth. All that was working, but there wasn't any body to keep the pressure on em and so they were searched, and so we saw the brunt of that in Kandahar, provinces in two

thousand two thousand and five September 11th operation. Medusa and you know what's a big operation, and it was just we just unbelievable what was going on during that time frame and terms of you: no enemy, Cape, military capacity, strength, numbers- and it wasn't just southern Afghanistan which is worth my bow tie. It was it was in the north. It was in the east in prominently at that time in the east, we're on the border, Rhine LAO credible right, so we're goin on all over the place right. You know why When you talked earlier, you mentioned that you know we re open and we were right in a constitution, we were set up their government, we and there's a no night. When I talk about leadership, a lot I do,

I talk about what happens when you try to impose your plan onto your support, that's onto your team. You impose your plan onto them. Look you can kind of get away with it, sometimes, depending on the authority to that you have, depending on the amount of leadership capital that you have depending on how much oversight you're allowed. The kindest sit there and if you're impose their plan, a plan on them, and then you have the tenacity and the and the beauty, that sort of concrete you to put the pressure on them. Then, maybe maybe you can pull it off, but it's much better from a leadership perspective to say, hey Doc, here's this mission? How do you do it and kind of let you come up with a plan. It seems, like America, has a tendency to want to impose our way onto countries whether it's the homeless, there's the the Vietnam thing, the way that unfolded in the way we try to sort of impose- what we wanted it to look like

and the Vietnamese don't like that. They fought against that for ever and they ve never been beaten, and so they weren't gonna, be beaten and, and it was that they didn't like what we were saying. It's just that they wanted to say what they wanted to say so so you know here we are with the Afghans doing a little bit doing some imposition on them. And in the way that turns out and sore like from a leadership perspective. If you don't have the the count, the pressure to say not know why this is exactly what I want you to do, and I have the tenacity and the leadership cap on the resource tat kind of make you do it, which again is an ideal. How do you think we find ourselves in a situation where we, We seem to make that that seems to be our tendency to want to impose. Are our way, our plan onto other on to other people. Well, to your point I mean it

it doesn't work out? Well right and in the way we had set it up? There was the? U S was doing them Monetary Joe. In so doing the police, the attacks we're doing the justice system. And then there was this collective body. That was writing the constitution and we factor it out one of the most important things that goes in a constitution or aid or a document whatever they choose to call it. That establishes there their government and how their government is gonna govern in a Muslim. Country, and that is, they dont, separate church and state right, and that was one of the big mistakes that document in then, name, the government for them as well, which you know they didn't like either so one once they got it turned over them. They made you no cars, I land they made. They made the change, try and

a building a top down western gum, police and military force, which isn't ultimately the way they do things decentralized, very decentralized and then we're China. Centralizing was trying to centralize it from boil down and they Do that either you know their political system is very. Socratic to begin with its its sure. As in Germany, in its local and its consent. Among the tribal elders in the village elders, which are which are different right, Could you have the tribal elders and they may not be the elected village elders right, but still work together and they understand, and then they have a pecking water of the tribes. So once stuff goes. One stuff is available the tribe yet their fair share based off of where they in the pecking order in their okay with this. But we don't like that a lot of time, because we want thee, the minority want to get the stuff

they're, ok with the stuff they get, because it's good enough rang so we went in, and we must all that right, because we would not familiar with the tribes and they don't have like right to or idealistic about the way we think things are going to be. I remember very similar example. We had these young iraqi soldiers and the the office we're skimming their paychecks and You know my guys economy have you got there scheme and the page actually showing unless the guys. So us Talking to my interpreters, ably, what's going on, you help us data, I dont understand template. Of course they are but the soldiers know that that's that's! That's your boss and he's gonna take a little piece. That's the way it works, just fine. So ass, going and trying to impose what we have this ideal of the way things should be doesn't always match up culturally and it turns into a problem. Yes, exactly what I mean, the same thing happened in Afghanistan right and we were obligated to fix it

which puts us in a position. We don't of any real authority to fix right, listen unless the still gonna score the still gonna do that damages figure out a different way to do it and although we see that bet, that is bad, I'm not saying it's good, I'm saying it's just the way it is right and more time. These things will change like we saw in afghan and right now ambassador to the United States in afghanistan- is a woman. Never would have been that way in two thousand one or five or ten, but in twenty it's a woman, that's good That's progress, they'll figure it out and they have a, university system that they figured out not one of the things we really didn't get involved in and it works right and I don't mean that everything we did was terrible because obviously it was but.

When you start getting involved in a country's institutions and you start getting involved in their culture and society in Europe outsider, it's never never gonna be received. Well, you're, probably gonna. U know try, Olaf or something that you should just you know. Just away from, but the good things happened as they you know continue to move forward and another thing that allow people in the villages they didn't want. To go from the seventh century to the twenty first century. Writing they didn't want it. They were very happy being in the seventh century. You know one of the things that I would always tell folks. That would would come to you. Do Mediterranean, Workin Afghanistan, I say: don't give him coats, don't give him shoes, they don't want that all they're gonna do they're gonna smile at using they're going to you so much. The leaves have kids runnin around with the stuff but as soon as you leave kids taken off and put on their sandals

They were sandals, you know even, one or two right there, put on winter boots. They just not going to do it, but they're gonna take those winter boots and put him on trucks in there. Go to Pakistan and they're gonna, sell em and then going to come back home because They don't have any use for They have used force, paper, pencils and school. Eriksson things along those lines that they that they would and they won't go sell because they want their kids to be able to draw. They want their kids to be able to write. They wanted to build in also stop giving them converse sneakers. You know it's they're, not gonna. Do you know that could. A worm. You're not gonna, see basketball which break out. You know they want soccer and no play soccer barefoot. And they outrun us right in their bare feet. So, let's just you know, I think it's you know too right I mean it, you know what It's gonna is what it is and

and our guys would see it as our guys would stay there and all the boots in the shoes and the jackets you you know they dont, where hooded sweatshirts, given blankets, they're, not gonna sport who did jacket with a hood on it in the middle of the afghan villages. They stick like the sword, thump, it's not what they were right. So you know they like cooking equipment, give cooking Quinn They make a great stew, yeah pay for for her tat is, if you eat it, on our stomach and the others that we were doing was. We were introducing medical supplies were causing more harm than good because we need the medical supplies because The way we grow up and live in America are immune system is much different. Them

Look I used to tell stories I used to tell a doctor. We get an afghan in with a head injury right, nut bullet. Through the head and the guy he's expect and I go. No. I wouldn't be so sure, please don't column expected. This is an afghan have incredible healing the way it is get a call from the doktor the next day: hey Don, you're not going to believe the guy sit up. Sputnik hundred things in Euro POSH do- and I will of course he is he's an afghan you know that might have put down an american soldier, but not asking that's just the way they are so please and I we used to go over one hour when our afghan partners would come in and I would make sure Please and I'd have my medics, they're gonna take just watch Guy Cosette, gonna, say expected and

We know that he might not be sometimes yes most the time now and you know they just heavy. Different constitution because of the way they have to you know operate if we bring in all of our amenities, we weaken them. Make them more susceptible to getting sick and and die yeah. It's not learn their way of life and not arrive in, and they don't want it right. You know, I do have their idea of of local care, so don't exceeded right, just come up to bring it back, bring the Mr Brok, that bring the nurse back, bring those skills back that the Taliban head, put it down and nothing and that's what they need so those so those two deployments back to back. That's thousand was was

Two thousand and six slash two thousand and seven show it with a two thousand and five two. Six hundred and sixty seven those. So what type of operations were your guys doing? because now you you're the appetite first battalion commander of third special for what what operations, where you guys we're guys don't so we were doing wheeler assisting the Afghan national army at the time with you know, shaping in clearing operations right and then a weed wanna put we'd want a whole that area in a way that we hadn't been holding it before. So we introduce kind of the hold cause it used to be shape. It go clear it and then leave they'd come back in so, let's hold it, which figure out a way to hold it, and that's where the first ideas about bottom up security came into play in thousand five, six and seven year, Sir you're setting up. Ah what was an afghan

Police with local police idea of afghan local police right there and at that we were just call him the arbitrary right and we had the support of the and arbitrary means like security, local security yea, it means their local security so like back in the day when they were fighting alley, and the great Genghis Khan and the bridge and the Russians thee Kabul, the king of Afghanistan, wouldn't send down national troops to deal the problem. He would organise. Local archives and the village elders and tribal elders they go and they get their weapons out of there. You know their huts innate mud huts and they would come in, they would report and they would defend Afghanistan, that's how they would do you.

Are there so many similarities? You know from from my experience in Iraq and and in two thousand section in the city of remedy the will win The army came in looked army, worked hard. The windy iraqi Army came in, they worked hard. They they sacrifice greatly. They fought hard. They were about your sheer going into a sunni city. That right, dear you're, already started off on the wrong foot. I mean that's not even putting that's putting it extremely mildly, to say you start off the wrong for you. You do with people that have it History of killing each other, and so you got that strong. She army coming into the Sunni City and look The sudanese inside Romani realise look the thereafter Al Qaeda thereafter, these insurgents thereafter, these foreign fighters, so we were able to through it- but it wasn't until the the the

sons of Iraq and the iraqi police, the local, the low sunni tribesmen, tribal leaders this you know what we want to defend our own city. Let us put our trial, let us put our tribesmen in the police force, that's what we did and then it was a game changer, because now you had the local tribal leader had, tribesmen, police uniforms on authorized by him, saying yes, we don't want bad guys here. And the local poverty is going up. That's that's our tribe and their several tribes, their multiple tribes, but they all agreed that that's what needed to happen. So this idea of you decentralized command, but also this idea of hay the people that are on the ground that are from there. They know good and whose bad and the go populist are going to support the neighbourhood kids that are now neighbourhood police, that's just its it. We were lucky enough to kind of watch that unfold. I was lucky enough to watch that unfolding and see those that

they called the sons of Iraq and was interesting to because in Iraq there had been there'd been out. Now came the Marine Corps had pushed through Alchymy and when they did it, there was a bunch of locals, go neighbours, bad guys now building over there does that, and so that Marine said hey. You know what let's organise these guys and they made this. This thing called your protector, which was your local, when you wanna help us out cool, you can join this program called desert Protector, and they started, isn't it was working pretty well. Well, A leaky got elected all the sun. He looks out an alarm bar province and they got all these desert protectors out their earnings wait a second now I got a bunch of random rogue. Security forces runnin around I can't have that. I can't I can't have that, so he shouted down, even which, which was not a great move, but you can see from his perspective. You don't want a bunch of rogue paramilitary units run around.

But we re able to convince the the shakes in remedy because they were asking we wanted you just protector. We want to do that. We are look at what we can to desert protectors, not around anymore, but you can be iraqi policeman. You can be local and will help you train and that's all. We did so what you're talking about very similar? Very some! Yes! Well, you know, I mean, as you pointed out the cultures, you know very similar and the way they approached thanks and there's the principles that really work and apply from one place to the other, the techniques and tactics and the approach require adjustment, but nonetheless standard principles same in that and that's what you're talking about- and I think that one The biggest things that we saw, two thousand five to two thousand seven, was that this brought about. Approaches merit over a top down approach right, although

aspects of the top down approach that you still need to apply, but real. If you're talking about security and safeguarding a population in May that area in air that the enemy can operate in. That's gonna be the way that you need to go and from two thousand seven five to seven. We learn that, but the other thing that we learned was this timeframe? You know the? U S transition the mission to NATO and that's when it became a full fledge NATO operation. And a very good friend of mine, Dave Frazier, whose written a book about Afghanistan about it, I'm there during this time took over that's when they went from oh sixes, kernels. And in some cases may be captains commanding the regional command, north, South EAST and West enough,

understand too general off shore Level Headquarters and Dave came in. He was a canadian special OB sky HU. I had had a relationship with really really good. Guy and when we got into Afghanistan. He said: hey, I need you to come over here. I need to talk to you about. You know what we're going to do and how we're going to do this cuz. We got a problem and more. We came in here to do peacekeeping operations and although its not popular thing to say my assessment is, as it were: fightin insurgency and a deadly one, and he knew that that was our assessment as well- are until guys and heard Mary, but he had the same assessment going in there from first time. Third group and our group headquarters up north soap, anyways called me in and

Well, I think we can come up with an operation using the Afghan national security forces, to come up into this district passed way and. Over this stronghold of insurgents right, and so we went back. We did some planning, we came back and breathed him and so what Charlie company? First, by tying got the mission and it was a in that are coming at them from you know: Kandahar Province, you know directly poor, helm and province where they expected to come. We went off lay down south into the regular hazard, which is the red desert. Now, when you fly in southern Afghanistan. In your flying. You know east west or west to east? There's the rag desert that heads always?

in Pakistan, in it's nothing but desert and then there's a distinct line that goes into the built up areas in the green areas, doing so forth and it just so blame nobody goes down there. Only better ones go down there. So we did our infiltration in the Panjwai district. That way it took three days. We did vehicle recovery operation. I mean it was ugly right, but we got there and completely surprised the Taliban in Pangea Way and it was a huge victory. So we routed the up and then my guys were up for over ninety six hours. Straight My comments are major. When, in once, we took pathway district. And this is where I told you really- we get up on top of the hill it saw- saw all the Taliban come, whose unbelievable

Why was once we got control that situation arise? those guys had slept for ninety six hours and I called my headquarters and sit amateur state sir major, not gonna stay here overnight, so cancel the siege. Forty seven come and get us, and so we did that and I knew if I had told my eyes that the sword major and I were gonna pull the entire night shift, so they could sleep. I wanna get a much push back right now, Sir you're not gonna, be porn guard our so I just kept my mouth shut and I said: Hale take first Watch they go. You dont have to go now. Take first work All these guys went down hard and the sword major, not just stay up all night while about two o clock. In the morning, my company commander, jeered Hill comes

because on two o clock in the morning I was supposed to have shift. You know I slept through what I'm sorry. I got no, no! No, we got this collective, it we'll get aid and arguably went back to bed and None of them had to pull shift. Me and our major We did radio watch and did the whole thing called in all the all the times right and then that was that, and these guys got up not only Then I have that, but I also had the helicopter come in with hot chow hopper right, and so I said you guys get you hot breakfast in sword. Major, I will hand back over to you and you know you got it right and.

It was just amazing what these guys had. None. General Frazier and workers rights today, but our and he says they save the NATO mission, because if we did, Have these special ops guys to do this. We would have Rounded by the Taliban, and it would have been a huge political nightmare for NATO first potassium third group, my guys got awarded for the first time the, equivalent of the canadian presidential unit citation the only fair. Foreign military in the history of the canadian military to get that award, got that awarding it sits in the battalion headquarters at Fort Bragg proudly, and you know they sent down there. There are equivalent to there.

Chairman of the joint Chiefs of Staff to Fort Bragg and all the guys got pinned on it, took him for years to get it approved, but he didn't quit found a got approved, and I was I was just getting out of the war college at that. Time was two thousand nine when one knave and when they did the award and I was just so proud to see these guys get the award and do do their thing. But yeah was. I mean in and that that will really what kind of got us thinking, and you know who got thanking gentlemen crystal. He came in and two thousand tend to take over. He was all about bottom up, all about it, and then one general portrays came in and take over for him. Ah he loved village stability operations and afghan local police and

So when when you before, we get into that, sir, you get done with your battalion. Commander, tore two thousand seven something yet July, two thousand some any change command and then you go to work out. By go up to use a sock headquarters for from from sickly August, two may of two thousand eight. And I get selected for the war college and I go after the war college, but Another great opportunity when I went to our three star headquarters, which place? Nobody wants the girl, but you go there. I got put in the the deputy g, eight and the deputy J does not headquarters. Is they do they do all the com developments in resources in the budget and all that stuff, and so I learn that And then I learned how uses sock not only

its into so calm and how we compete for resources there, but also how we compete for resources and the army. Our tier one guys. They get all their resources, how the Rangers get all their resources and everybody and so that was huge right, and so I was right in the middle of that process, because we were right in the middle of of, we all know that for them five years- and I got put in charge of of thee movement of seventh group from Fort Bragg to destined Florida for their new headquarters. In setting that up and what that would look like and although not perfect, we really really did create an optimal special forces group headquarters.

With all the ranges and all the things associated with, so they could do all their levels of training right there, and what you learn about working. Communities and briefing communities, because there's noise things, noise studies in this that housing issues it you know be enough. Housing houses all going to amuse just unbelievable right. So that was another part. You know, like I told you before, with the Secretary of the army and in working in a city and then the staff and all at all together real, gave me tremendous insight on, on how you suck You know United States, army, special operations, command works and again a lot of guys that make very senior ranks don't have any idea how that works, because they don't get the opportunity to go there, and that was because not a baton command. I get selected for the war college and dislike on. Alitalia do they had no place for me right and they said

report to use a sock headquarters and they'll have a job, and I originally was gonna be in the J, the G three? But then I get that I got moved over to the G8, because an old boss, a mine, was the one the useless Archie eight Jeffrey puts and he goes on. I want him right he's a farm boy go work. Is s off for me right in the end, you may not like it, but he's gonna. Do it and so boom. So I went there and yeah was great great, really great experience, knowing how and in what you study or work college, and so I went to work out and I just studied. Then you know their curriculum and you get a masters degree in strategic studies saws like on the screen. So I I've. I've worked at the strategic level right in three different assignment and I've worked at the operational level, and now I'm gonna go and I'm gonna get an education.

In the end and strategic studies, and so it really it it brought together the job experience and then in education and culture, that together. For me, I gotta business degree. When I went to command staff college, because I, like you, know one when I take over unit it it can shoot, move and communicate like nobody's business. But god- he socket admin budget soon, all that stuff that nobody likes to do in there the balloon it saw. I ended up business degree, because I thought that that's what I should do right and so learning how to run a business. I said: that's gonna help me out did ride so had the business thing go, for me and then I had got you know get to the war college.

Carlisle And- and that was just a great experience there as well and But I learned one thing at the work: all it is not necessarily the war college and what you learn their its winning the gym. Thorpe. Ports are that where all the war colleges come to the Army WAR College and you compete right in a variety different sporting events and. The army is only lost it twice, who they were in their history of they. Usually you lose it to the Navy WAR College Thee what are the events, the National WAR College there? Teams are so small right because the schools so small they get their butts, kicked all time, but

the Army WAR College and you know you got the army. The air Force Navy the coast. Or to carry me, you know you're, all those guys come down and it's amateur It's three days of feats of shrink, I loved it. And and you you play all these sports right during the war college, only Let the coaches of the different teams in the gems, Thorpe Sports, competition, can draft their athletes and then you start training. In January after the first the year you get put on a team, then you train all the way up. Two may When they have see event, well what what? What event did you do? I I was in the eight hundred metre relay

and the five miles run and we want both those events. We add a ringer, we, some guy with a three fifty seven miles out than we had a a guy on on our team, using marine on our relay team, who was a division, one relay national champion the on a team right. That's not fair in and coach was in the nineteen seventy two Olympics as an eight huh, meter real and so the king. Ouch. It also, he taught us, you know how to run. You know an end and had a page yourself and how to do it, It was a blow out, it was pretty cool, but I, The link that I

I had the first like I had to: firstly even knew how to set up people for what rags and there you know, and he stood right right at the place and he said turnaround so, as I ran biogas, turnin I've had it with was you had so much left in you right? even though I was last, I picked everybody off and that was the whole idea, because people don't get trained and how to write they just go. You know in two jobs around a treasure, yeah yeah. I feel in it. You know. No, I the eight hundred which I never did. But I was reading an article about her somewhere along the way and the eight hundred they say is like the most painful movement, because you know, you're running a hundred yards it over. Here you run, you run a mile or a sixty or even a marathon. It's at a lower level of intensity

and this this article that I think are traffickers in article I read, but it pointed out the fact that there's zero recreational eight hundred metre around or set it don't exist. There is massive. There's people run, verifies Doolittle, spread travel on, there's no one. I just got three eight hundred meters online for font doesn't happen. I too, we rap with the Jim for in future a terrific. It's time for you to go back to work and your neck, Your next thing is you go back to your back to Afghanistan again, I do I go back for Afghanistan again, what proved to be twenty two months and this is what two thousand ten two thousand ten and I go back to Afghanistan, as an adviser to thee, our sea, South commander, and at the time it was a Dutch commanded by the name of major General De Croys use dutch guy.

And we were having some John John, Mcchrystal was concerned about the problems with soft coordination. So me said: hey you can command of seed sort of a soul, so the siege zone, if that's the The combined joint special operations taskforce, Afghanistan. This is the person. That's gonna, be in charge of all special operations in Afghanistan. That's correct and you get you get tasks that outside of the detail right you're one guys not included himself. Anyway, we're to take command of that. That's gonna, be my brigade level command opportunity, and I couldn't have been more excited I have had more often in general currently to thank for that. They are the ones that pick me. So I was

had a great relationship with admiration and General Kearny. General Kearny was then the deputy, the depth of our so calm, but before that and during my time as obtained commander, he was the sock spoke operations command central commanders Batista. So that's I built that relationship with him and a general rules. She's me admirals and developing a good relationship with him, and so they pick me for that command. But there was time there so. I went to I said: Hale I'll just go early, and now you know do whatever you need me to do our work on a staff I'll, do whatever you know, staples onto the rugs. I don't care just just get a narrowly and get myself. You know ready for Leah the command and they said hey.

Go Mcchrystal wants to go down south and be special operations LEO, on two general decoy who is not very happy about the coordination with his headquarters in our sea south and the ISAF guys so I went down Erin. I got myself stand motion did that, while the interesting thing is Johnny crave went to the army workout and there's twenty seminars in the Army WAR College. You get a sign in seminars and there's a first one and that's for sure, all the guys deploying out of WAR College whose family stay right, so my wife was in some of our twenty one. When I left she stayed their, which was great continuity for her and kids because they were there.

My kids wrestled so one of em rustled for the high school. So they were. I was Good continuity, we thought it was only gonna be for a year It ended up being for twenty two months, so then, stand, or almost three years, which was really good finance but General De Gaulle, went to the war college, and he was in seminar. Eight I was in seminars, and we called her Elsie April. And so, when I went in to introduce myself- and he said we come from, a national army were called because I went to the army were college too, and I go. Really that's Sure I loved, and he goes, I loved two thousand seminar eight and I go well. So was I and he goes no in, and we had to say instructors same guys there. So we re the share that we're would assure stores Bob in an equal rights, and automatic you know really ship establishment reward everything and

all. I did was good morning meeting be available for him whenever he needed. Whenever those operations coming up, I made sure that it they would be conflicted, and I ended- Travelling with him everywhere he went in Afghanistan monoplane everywhere he went the self. That's what you want me to do, and it was it was like simple and. General Mcchrystal was happy because he was not getting any more complaints from your she self command, and you know and they were valid complaints. I might try right, I mean yet how that goes. Just so much going on right and everybody I want to do the right thing and are trying to do to try to get it done, and you know things slept so to get those six colonel ETA, make sure that doesn't happen and if it does happen, He got one got a blame me. Nobody else so was good and

are we just take me up, and you know It wasn't just saw you know conventional side. It was all kinds at everything's going the state Department what they are doing and then the visa. Things going on so just war. Then how long did you do that, for I did that for six months from June to June two December, so months and then after that you took over the sea just sort of yeah. I went home for two weeks for taken, his vacation up to it to its one. One for two weeks came back, took command and stating command foam of these. Special operations there. You know the siege survey until may of two thousand and eleven And this is minimal, and this is when you started or at work.

What pointed the did the vs o the village to body operations start at it this time, yes, so cause. I remember I was getting ready to Why retired two thousand ten hours I was running training and ass. I was running training we start and have guys do training missions based on vs L based on go now and do in tribal engagement in key personnel engagement in going to meet people and villages and have on em how they're gonna set security and all that stuff. We started doing that in two thousand ten, so I ought to know exactly when it came. Came to fruition, but from what? When did it? so it would have been about April of two thousand ten that it. Started coming to fruition because I got there in two thousand nine. I did that. Then. I took command Junot thousand nine and- and I didn't leave until May of two thousand and eleven right, so it was

It was about that time frame and you know it there was a call. Action of people that were putting this together, but I happen to be the commander that did the bulk of operational, rising it which is the hardest thing to do right, the first guy and a breach right yeah, it's it's hard because you got people pushing back against it. You got people that are all for it and you know. Even though general crystal wants it to happen, you know this is many people there with him. They don't want it to happen, and you got the national community and and even my own community right, they were sceptical of it because They saw it as a special forces mission, so bringing in Marseille and bringing in the seals do this kind of mission. It will I k that

not their mission, and this is a bad precedent and it's any other thing and I'm like hey, but you know okay, so give me more odas right, I mean you know, came up with term and the joint staff everyone was using the word fungible right and I have be given somebody a brief frightening and it was Using special option. You know we're better when we work together right because we have just we just off. So anyways I said, then you know special opt puts the fun fungible Euro Cosette was the big strategic word at the time right in the more you could show, you were fungible, the better off you were so we're. Fungible was held right hand and that's what that's what we do so so many ways we yeah. We we just dumb. Came together and did it and every

Single, where there was more what it was when it was. Some their teams order Navy seal teams of the special forces team these platform, did really really and just give us a brief on the idea of other vs out of the of the village debility operations, what was so if I was an odious eighteen leader of a seal platoon leader? What was what was my mission? Worlds are gonna look like, so your mission is to go is to go in to say it's. You know, Kandahar Province in its district acts and you're gonna go in there and you're going to figure out what is the best village to start a which stability platform, which consist of your team and additions. Augmentation of Intel guys and in other things that you're gonna need in order to be able to operate there go in you're, gonna talk to the village, elders and tribal elders, and you get

figure out where you need to be now they're going to tell you where you need to be and you're going to go with it and if it's the wrong place, don't worry about it. We can change it. So just would flow schooner therein charge there the guys that tell us where to go and for time you'll figure out if it's the right place now and then working with them. If you got to change the place you want, because what's going? happiness there of this top down. Mindset. Ok U S is common in and they're gonna come in with a whole bunch of good stuff. And we're gonna build take advantage of it. Well they're gonna realise over time, but will not come in and they would jack. He disco, targeted, odium zeal do out there that I will try, and so some Tesco barriers and african sack tat. I have found boys, I will not come in with with a big bag of money and a whole bunch of things that they're gonna be able to. You know, take advance

and then you gonna realise, while the current right and But what we are going to do is we're gonna come in with the ability to be able to prove to them that they can secure themselves and well developed this afghan local police programme and they in charge of nominating the people for this programme. So we we get the fingerprint their thumbprint on that guy and so that guide the sun. It discredits the village elder and tribal oil, So you're not going to really get back now. Did we have some problems? Yes, we did, but the problems were my new and we started. We start clear and these in clearing and holding these areas and with the afghan local police programme and yet based more on relationships at you form with the locals more than its based on imposing you're,

we'll on a local, which you can only do that if you ve got to strengthen the consistency and addictive that all the time right, which is it's impossible, its impositive passports impossible in system. The challenges that I was presented with was a? U putting these guys in. In harm's way than any all get killed, one night the tell bandages can overwrought em and I said well, I don't think so. Our guys are smarter than that. They're not going to allow themselves to be over one they're, going to keep your finger on the pulse on the until we're going to use the relationships that they have in the Pashtun Wally Code and people can laughed when I said pashtun Wallack open. But but it is strong, you know, and it consists of you know, supporting strangers. It consists of revenge right and that's what they basically operate off and they accepted a sin and we became

their responsibility and as a result of becoming their responsibility, help nor guys now we get guys injured and the guys get killed yet, but that was in combat operations in they died right along with us right. The chest combat operations are combat operations, but did we ever get overrun know now in this was in the middle? The time will you saw conventional, post being overrun right. You know all over Afghanistan and MRS conventional units that put themselves in valleys in places that they should not put themselves because they were operating independently of the the afghan cultures, some protection right, and so we ended up by two thousand eleven when I left,

at ninety locations, and none of them ever got Ronald. None of them ever get attacked the Afghans all over I mean they knew they never wants to fight against the Taliban they there protecting their families and they took a chair and when they saw the progress they were making in this big bang Taliban guy was defeated and they saw they were like. Then they get the will to fight. And they had mission, and they realise that that their freedom Destiny live life, the where they want to live, was in their hands and that they We need the american military or international forces to secure their freedom, for I could do it themselves, but we need your help. A little bit right. To help a little bit, but when we got it we got it and that's where the position peace came in it's interesting because

you know. I was saying that not only can we as Americans impose are we alone every village in the country? Guess? Who else can't do that? The Taliban and the Taliban? That's right? So so, if you got it, you gotta make those connections as decentralized command its building relationships and had a pretty positive. I mean a very positive impact on what has happened in Afghanistan. Two thousand was a two thousand ten two thousand and eleven in the two thousand twelve and thirteen things are moving in the right, in the right direction right and you know, like I said Mcchrystal put in place- he was replaced by general. He is in general. Portrays became a huge, huge advocated and one of the things that General portrays did was he said Don. What do you need to expand.

And I said well or kind of limited, sir- would just our special operation forces. But if we could get augmentation from the conventional forces, then we could expand right and we could. We could use the conventional forces to augment And not as guards for our basis, because we don't need those. We get the afghan student but justice additional people in we can train them on on how to do it, but in then we expand ourselves, because we have. We have a bit more people, but not too big. We can't get to big because in that that gets out about so he went to the army and got us at the time, and we used at the time to to augment not every team but certain teams in certain areas and allowed us to expand fast and one of the one of

areas we need to do. This was corner right and we brought in a guy by name a gym, Gatt who had relations with the tribal elders out there, both in Pakistan and in and in Afghanistan, and we gave him the village stability operation mission now get worked for me when I was tank manner He wrote a paper, the general also or admirals really loved and so did betray us and so did others, and they asked Scott Miller, who was my boss, one star than to star Major General Miller, Who was my boss during this whole time and who I worked through in order to get in a village stability operations in afghan local police started and he was pretty brilliant in and you know how he got that approved for cars. I insolence of

because everybody was in the international community was very concerned about all you're going to arm all these guys and then they're going to create all kinds of humanitarian violations going to kill people with you know, cars, was worried that they would get too strong and take over the government You know when you go down there at that level, they didn't have those they didn't have. Aspirations to want to control their village. They just wanted the live controller village have their family, get their fans educated, bring their crops to market and, let's ride not have anybody bottle. They had. They hadn't heard this is having to take over Afghanistan because they saw Kabul, is a big as big a promise. Anything out right, so yeah but there's people that live in Montana Wyoming that don't

We care what's going on Washee Betty and they certainly don't want to move their didn't want to move to New York. They don't want to move to allay they. They just want to live in rags, exactly and so saying prince. Applies and so early. Here. We are we we took advantage of that and it cost us one. The amount of money that it costs make an afghan We saw sir or military officer and police officer or army, and need, Bulgarians right and they walked to work so there's no infrastructure right and the ultimate decentralized command right. It really is at an end and it you know it was workin and they could sustain it. You see It wouldn't anything they couldn't sustained in the long run. So in every place was You know if you saw one,

which stability operation and one afghan law police in a village, while the only saw one because they're all different right and their different, because different people or are made at work right and the tribes are different. Ideas of different. You go up north to go to the Marines different X rays and they're, making a living as different. Yes, everything is different, so you ve seen one you ve seen what southern there's there there isn't this there is in this like magic formula where you, you know you got one Take that one in you impose it over here now all different right.

And what I really liked was we carpets up into Marsoc territory into naval special warfare territory into special forces territory, and I would get the same guys back all the time they would get would come in for their six months. They will not rotate out near six months and we got that kind of continuity right and we weren't reinventing the wheel where you Juno special forces accommodate It happened every once in a while, and I remember when I commander siege sort of way and we will come up. Let's see this was April, I said: hey, listen! I can this headquarters, and I see all these wikis enshiu ease in all this all these condom mention scream and all this stuff- and I go here fuck eyes on the ground- can have this one on an initial weight is right and let's look about Thanksgiving.

We must talk about Thanksgiving right now, it's April, if they dont get Turkey, we don't get Turkey and we have the technology. We had refrigeration units we could put out there not not tax anything we had stuff that would run off. What are those panels? Why my solar panels solar panels and we had all kinds of stuff, and we could you know There was all kinds of innovative ways we can get Turkey out. Some guys get the floor but a ball put him in the freezers and good to go. But what about those that we can get that stuff up to? While I had this I looked at RON Reagan, my my

a guy, and I said: hey you don't make the sap and who goes aren't. We were gonna happen, so Julia Farmin at the time of young lieutenant log off shore comes up of this plan and she go sir. We gotta think we're gonna build to meet your intent for Thanksgiving and I go right. Well, let's get operation, Turkey drop and our our guy. Figured out how to drop live. Turkey's in and I said, ok, it's gonna be cost prohibitive and what an honour its great, we do it with the normal runs, but we just you know got our own huge pack, our own stuff. We ve done several rehearsals. We haven't any misfires, so

I'm not going to get in trouble with PETA by dropping in a turkey and the Turkey and all the parachute. Doesn't you know I was just kidding of course, and so we did it. We did operation he dropped. We got em out there in September on Turkey's because we had to drop green and feed and all we had told him how to take care that Turkey's, and so they did it and on Thanksgiving Day I got kinds of story of these guys eat near Turkey's everyone's happy, our guys, a happy because they get Turkey and all the fictions went out there with right. I mean axis of rum stove thought stuff. You know all that good stuff right, and so these guys are eaten. That's enough! Well, come January when a roll out to our work marine detachments out there at the time, the young, captain. There was the son of the commandant of the Marine corps and I was going to going out to see him in I lay on the ground and dust settles next thing. I know I got these two

mom gets Turkey's each side of us and I go with the hacker. These guys do not here and goes. Does all those? Those are our turkey's. You know. I go these same turkey's that we dropped IA any gotcha and he wants to get off the subject as fast as I possibly can, but these turkey smuggling up right next to me, and he told me what their names were. Your marriage, rude guarantees and I we continue to walk the closer we get to the range of Turkey's break off and they go into this tent. That's got and I walk over that and they go nano search this way and I go now, I'm going to see what the certainties and doing a farmer and me is now very interested So I go over to see these turkeys and they got this like they got their hooked up. Hey and you're not placed eat drank in table. That they jump up on and all these things Michael, what's goin on, he goes He was I, sir,

looking down at his videos the guys you get to Turkey's out here. They named guys just fell in love with you couldn't kill and I go you steely I'd marine special operators couldn't take, take tutor he's down for thanksgiving, we couldn't do it and I got this is great and I should it you know: I get it and He goes. The Afghans are waiting for the day. They are waiting for the day, Yorks right, and so special forces, Ogier, which I was getting my point is you didn't always have the floor: ability of replacing Marines when Marines and so on and so forth, but ass if ogier gets out there and that next Sunday

I got a story board and their eaten the teacher. They didn't have the same connection with those two readings and the Afghans. The cooks there smile and you know that you are all happy, but anyway, they're, not sir, you are in that tour for twenty two months, you're over there in Afghanistan and then what what what happens when you know that so I get done with that. And they say, hey you're gonna- go to the joint staff and you're gonna, be the deputy deputy. Special operations guy in the joint staff and workin for general, my gotta. Now that the the visa so idea seem to have faded and lost some of its. Team, not so much from what was happening, the field, but it seems like we went in a different direction

What causes? Well, when I got back so went to the joint staff reported there in June of two thousand eleven worked on the staff and there was emphasis taken off a village stability operations and afghan local police from two thousand eleven or twelve, but I got told hey, you know, general admirable Craven was how the so called common. Poor and General Allen was the commander in Afghanistan and they wanted more emphasis placed on visa. So I get told that I would be Goin back in June, two thousand twelve to June two thousand maybe a year anyway, and they said Anne and Tony Thomas was gonna, be the commander there to start manner, and I was gonna be

one star, sip suck a commander with the portfolio for Visa, so ale, P and I'll. Think of his name. Is we got but air force one star. I was still a colonel. I am, I am come out on the oh, so seven wished yet, but the one star was gonna work as deputy for General Thomas and he was gonna, do all the direct action stuff so to portfolios. One commander bringing soft under one command, and you know Tory Thomas got that and so We went in there under that construct in and I was told get this on line it expanded. So we did that. And by the by June of two thousand thirteen. Ninety percent of the ninety percent of the

rural area was in the control of he half afghan government and it was due to village to Billy operations, afghan local police and we started doing transitions, so we were transitioning to the act They had put a general homage. I became my battle buddy and was in charge of afghan local police for them, minister of Interior, and and so he was my battle buddy, and I worked with him to ensure that he could he understood and could implement this mission. Everything from you know making sure they got the training, make sure they get the weapons and make sure they get the,

recite make sure they got. You know the Golan, everything they possibly can and it was integrated in the afghan government fully and one percent were out. And we had this on a timeline that took us out about. You know two thousand and fifteen, maybe two thousand and sixteen, and we would have had completely transition, didn't buy that time. Nearly one hundred percent of Afghanistan would have been fully under the control of the of the afghan government. The Taliban at the time were saying we're done. El Kato now they were completely ineffective. Again, something always talk about earlier. They don't have the data the resources to be in every single village and get down to some go village with two hundred and eighty people in it, and put the resources against it to get control of its neighbour, always their will on it. And meanwhile, the locals

obviously they lived there not going anywhere in there's more them. Then there are the Taliban ability bill to do it. So it was. You know it was just there- is heading in a good direction. Was hurrying in a very, very, very good direction, and so you know by by the mill of by the middle of a twenty thirteen and in everything, was falling into place to wear the Afghans and in none of the things that they said, I wasn't a perfect, perfect programme. But what program is perfect? It was good enough right and it was working and a lot of the things that people really had a problem with. Just in Hap thee humanitarian. You know, incidents didn't occur to the extent that people said they were going to occur and Andy

of cars, I was not concerned. The afghan local police, we're gonna form. You know huge militia and assault couple it just one can happen, ran all these things. That day political level, they were really nervous about, did happen, and so a minute I mean it was good right in and then you notes its twenty thirteen and people are wondering haven in one. We gonna get out there, and so you know the political stuff started during in Afghanistan and and you know the ideas of pulling out and so on so forth by by twenty fourteen and transitioning new non combat operations coming out of the villages and stuff like that, and so we try to influence that the best we could with you know, Rand studies and showing them that hey. If we just keep this for a couple more years, you know

it's gonna be solid and the chance for resurgence will be way low. When I mean I mean look what we done in terms of the dropping, actual and Loring casualties, record, blows, record highs and security, the Taliban are pretty much slap on the table and defeat AL caters like we can operate here anymore and What do with the top down stuff going on to because you needed that right. So you know the tier one guys weren't involved in in the village, to bility operations, afghan local police, but what they were doing to take. The senior guys was obviously compliment complementarity right, so this was good. This was a good bound. And it was soft, was in a good place where we are all working together and we were doing. A variety of front missions along our very broad mission continuum, and it was way less expire.

Than sending over vision or brigade to do it right me. Oh did it keeps off busy at keeps off busy, but You know I mean in a productive way, guys SAR right. I mean not everybody, even our guys, weren't in love with the mission. First, you know I mean you about a new book. You know about having to explain the guys that it's gonna have to be an iraqi solution of this right and we're gonna have, and it was the same challenges. I had right. No, we're not gonna, be kicking endorse. The Afghans gonna kick indoors prom but you're not gonna kick in any doors and if you do well that's an extreme right, but you work through within by these guys, they're the ones that have to own at the end of the day, what did the same thought process, but the guys? I realise that this was still a combat mission, that this was not a man, be pamby, kinder hand ring in humanitarian thing. It was

combat mission, and, and so we can all they got a mainly they really favourably made at work without them, no way wouldn't have happened, and so yeah. Please start here and listen. We're getting concerned. And the concerns about draw down common draw down, come right. Changing combat operations to on combat operations coming out, the village villages tourmaline handing. Program lock, stock and barrel over the Afghans, at the senior level too early and

You know we gave him the warnings we said hey likely, the security situation is likely, the they'll be a resurgence and Al Qaeda will come back right, while nobody thought that ISIS would but by twenty sixteen we had a complete reversal as we did with they made. The decision is left to table. We came out of the villages, we went strictly top down. We put all our emphasis on The Afghan national army and police to fight and gain security, didn't support? The afghan local police programme anymore? It fell in fell apart, and I think it could have been avoidable. I think a lot of other people who have done assessments on it. Not it could have been avoidable but nonetheless you know our guys on the ground regardless

what mission you give him still do it with honour integrity and get done what you want them to get done. But at the end of the day we saw ISIS come back, we saw Cato emerge, we saw merged, we saw the Taliban come back and full force. The security situation was reversed. And we had an all time- high and casualties and twenty nine, So here we are in twenty twenty one, and you know President drum, I think, had the right idea, let's figure out how we can come

with Afghanistan, while nobody game plan right when he asked for two years and new administration just an airplane to come up. So you know hey the political situation you know overcome. Everything right going into a presidential election year big Year for the Congress. You know and that starts driving decision makers, staunch driving decision making and really instead of the guys on the ground right exactly in so we go, and you know the president was response of new current president know: who's gonna make a decision I mean it is what it is, but he was also in charge of when he was vice president. You know coming out of Iraq and into die eleven and go into your own, you know he he just you.

I think what he learned there in the experience he had therein applied it to Afghanistan and in or out lock, stock and barrel, and we. Although I am an advocate of You know figuring out how to come out of there a more of an advocate, a commoner there the right way, and there is a lot to lose their budgets. Really I mean I'm signing a lotta letters today Twenty years of working with people there in Afghanistan, interpreters and workers, barbers it'll guys in gardeners guys that really put their life on a line to arm two supporters and help them in their families and now they are left there, and so I think I got forty five better sign. Right now- and I said everything I do too congressmen

Aunt, Shaw and Tom Cotton, because there you know they're, putting together some sort of process to expedite getting these guys are there. But you know it does gods, everything's political rights and and we know we just where you know we're at a point in time now. Are you know, strategy and policy, purity inside our country and outside our countries. Is, you know I mean I think, issue. I think a lot of Americans, She was an issue right. Yeah. Well, especially when we see other no nation states that are making moves, big moves and play long playing along strategic game in which Going to the next election, that's a long to teach a game. Sometimes it's not right. Now, two thousand and twenty two is I long for Tuesday game right. I mean how we going to change the house and how we going to change the Senate and how we going to get the majority they're not

watch and how we gonna do with China and how we're going to deal with a potential invasion of Taiwan and how we going to deal with Russia and their encroachment on the Crimea and Europe in and their pipeline issues. And I ran and then in their path, see war and what they're going to do, can see Israel and North Korea's gonna follow. China everywhere goes, and now it's working more on its nuke your programme than it ever has ban, and we got you know visibility on that and in those mix. Those are some existential threats that we really gotta pay. Attention and the real than in their help, and we got Africa right. Twenty eight countries in Africa getting eaten alive by China and Russia to get eaten alive by terrorist organizations that are taking advantage of the ungoverned spaces and that's dangerous for Europe. You know the French and the British

in the Dutch and the Germans and the Italians, the fur line for the for the worse. Against violent extremists. Organizations is in Africa for them. You know it's Molly, its Libya, its Tunisia and it's it's Kenya, in its Somalia, in its Nigeria and Senegal and Mauritania, Morocco, It's all these different places right- and you know I mean I that for years and in U S Africa and two years, twenty Montana was commanding special operations command in Africa, and we had twenty eight countries over two thousand special arch troops on the advising assisting training and conducting operations through within by our partners to get after all, Chaba small ISIS smaller right out in the eastern Central Africa.

What Resistance Army and now ices is there in Nigeria with Boca her arm and ISIS, West Africa and and and add in Cameroon and Burkina Faso in Mauritania and Senegal and and all of the affiliates of allocated are out there wreaking havoc right, french of over four thousand troops on the ground in you know, from Molly to Nigeria, because it's their war on its their front line right and you have a huge coalition of of european partners, I'm I doubt more with our european partners than special operate since Command Europe they are fighting in Africa right and so I was always you know, coordinating, would mark Schwartz a mark. I'm goin going to Denmark. I'm going here go in there and I went to France five times right to talk

to the highest levels of their government about you know what was going on there and you know So what was going on and in Africa, as is something that America has taken its eye off and one point four billion people by twenty fifty it'll be two point: four million people and credible resources. This incredible amount of resources huge what goes through South America into the United States in South America is not very far from the African West Coast and you get all those traditional lines of illicit trafficking. Through Europe Iranians have multiple have been able to establish multiple places where they have full traded Africa all over Africa to move men, weapons in resources at a drop of a hat if they need so

I mean we're gonna, the problems are ready. You know we have to keep our eyes on it. Afghanistan. We shouldn't be tied to one country, but we got That country. That was a good way to go out, but move to a regional perspective. Everything going on in that region as a whole. Have lot smarter, and you know just need to start considering that, but we I still We have some responsibilities to Afghanistan that we cannot overlook dinner in energy and our exit there You know you were looking at the global perspective in the global issues. Clearly, that's that's all stuff we have to think about, but I know that this one more issue that youth dealt with personally and you ve tried to help out our troops with it and that,

What's going on what happens to our troops and what's happened to our troops? Well, I guess as long as we ve been around, but we ve deftly noticed it for sure. Since these wars kicked off the war on terror, kicked off and that's post, traumatic stress, and then the dirt brain injuries. What was your how did you addressed that how'd you experience that what was that like for you- and I know I ve been talking for a while- but I want to cover this because I mean this is something that a lot of people are are dealing with. Yes? Well, I think it's the number one health issue that we have in the United States military today and I believe it's the same when you look at our veterans in its leading to the significant amount of suicides in both on active duty in the reserves, national guard and again in better income

right, then I think it's all has do dismantle injury issue, an physical injury and spiritual injury, and it's that try add that I think is hugely important- that we have to work on strengthening all the time in the military, because you know as well as I do, if your physically hurting you need that taken care of and mental injuries right, need that taken care of, and we know by studying all the way back to two Sparta right- that the traumatic brain, injury and post traumatic stress was during the day. Looked at any call it that right, but they knew that a cock on the head create problems right anyway, and they manifest themselves in the inside there. There there there units their military units and they They realized they had a an object right in an age. Spotter there's only two people, they get their name on a headstone, a mother

who dies and childbirth and a warrior dies on the battlefield. Everybody else's buried spotter with no name, no, nothing but the birth of a child and the sacrifice on the battlefield, the ultimate circulation, a battlefield are recognised and in that way culture. So when we look back, and we see everything that we ve done and what we ve called it throughout the years and I was one that Didn'T- have an appreciation- forty, the right, I thought it was a sign of weakness. I there's no way right. I mean you know you think about Patten, and you think about you know the way our society a shapeless, and I thought weaknesses well. Until it happened to me- until I saw it happened and others until I realize was pro

and you know well educated milaness, my wife she's a nurse she started studying it. She started seeing she started, seeing how I changed every time I came back and when you get more come bull being away from your family and deployed and combat zone, and you do at home with your family. Yet a problem- and that was me and it was affecting my relationships with my family- was affecting relationships in the military. I was saw always you know, wired for sound, go high and right really quick, lose my temper not want to listen people in it just negatively affected areas, and she started noticing around two thousand eight and she was talking to me about getting help However, there was no gettin calling for help. Two thousand eight non military data are now in two thousand ten austerity programmes and they were starting to deal with traumatic brain injury.

I'm telling you we have all these programmes. But what I learned was our approaches wrong. Our approach, our approaches, punitive, take the opportunity to take you away from the people who love the people. You want to be with every single I'm gonna put you ll, be here and we can say: ok, you're, not gonna. Do your duty to do your job and and oh by the way, we'll take Clarence away or suspended whatever and If you don't get better and a year where we're going process. Your log, genteel de policy right. I thought that was insane won't bite thirteen I just and promoted Brigadier general. I just gotta: U S, Africa? U S, Africa, just I did my job as the operations oftener and guess what my wife came to me and she said we can handle anymore. I can.

Analyse kids, can handle it I can handle it Klondike our husky at the time she goes. You get you some other draw why she was then. I said you're right Europe and she's, talking about losing your temper, being around socially isolating myself stay in it. Till ungodly hours just avoiding voting social events in the my biggest fear was having to go to a social event, and I would look for every single excuse, Under the sun yep, I'm going I'm going I'm going until I call her and say: hey something came up at work. Are you staying

Jack and I would go home right after the event was done so and she's not done. She knows exactly what I was doing right and dumb, but she knows delicate and and do you know I wasn't screamer at home. I would just not involved myself just come home and my own damn business not get involved, and that was that- and you know, if something came up, I would exit state right and avoid deal with, and then I would look for every opportunity. I could go deploy somewhere right well want to: U S, Africa, that ability to deploy went away

because, as the operations officer use Africa, the only place I was deployed do was my off. How was it so? Twenty thirteen she got me to go. But I had heard about this nurse ceramic Mary who had Stop it launched when she really innovative and so on and I had a meeting with her and I said: listen, you know I gotta do this under the radar right I mean this is not something that would be accepted by the chain of command if I'm goin for pity herself, so she understood and she um. Put me on a program I went up and it was easy for me to get away right. We had african units up it launched or

Ramstein near launch go, and I could. I could always find a way to get up there if I needed to go for an appointment or what have you. So it wasn't a big one, big stretch and it didn't put a lot of life on what I was doing. But I went up there and three days gotta die would have postmark stress TB. I sweep disorder, pain, management issues, neuro toxicity and there was up I mean all the malaria, medications and vaccines and all these

we ve done all our career. All I know is my kidneys, my other organs. The way your brain thanks sought so forth. All that positive p s posit more point mega put on their programmes, and so I took advantage of this and I did it religiously, from twenty thirteen. Through twenty fifty. I managed to go through this and then I looked at myself from a mere awarded the therapy programmes consist of so the sex. It down talk when someone is this: what are they give you a bunch, a test for pity s right and they figure out exactly which you know what's wrong with your. You know what your brain and you know what you're thinking in and how Social isolation is impacting you and you know, and they

put you with a therapist and they work on those. No thank you. You talk about it. You come up with straw used overcome at you, you, my wife came with me. That was hugely important because you know she's got, does a quote, but my doctors on my doctors office there in launched or my wife was with me and he asked me a question- I told him my answer and she goes that's a bunch of bullshit casino. So he goes what's the real deal. Right- and so I realise the utility in because sometimes were embarrassed by our actions right and we don't want to fully disclose them. While, if you not fully disclosed, People are gonna really understand how to help and.

And when I had to travel- and I had a appointment, I did it by Skype and choice, the tv I had serious balance issues I my eyes were out of focus in is a machine that they tested on animals, sheep so my eyes got back in about and my bound scope they put on a balanced machine it. You know you feel like an idiot, and I did all my bounce exercises. My balance get good. You know those I'd go for when my wife we'd hold hands, and I would you know, after then she's like saying you're, killing me right and to push me back over and so on and so forth. And so they just have all these strategies to future now think about you got traumatic brain we have special operator. Annual balance is in your eye, focuses on and you gotta do a you know, high risk. C H, MH forty seven infiltration into a village and and-

and then you know fashion. Born to a building and then use a ladder to cross from one building to the other end, balanced sucks right, These things we need to fix, but were not until the fiction for not aware of, and so I started thinking about what a fricking coward. I. Doing this under the radar and not leading the way, and so on so forth, so I went back and I talked to my boss about it as the operations officer in Africa. I say this what I've been doing, and I am a different matter my wife's sees it my kid see. My dog see I'm different, perfect, but I'm a better version of myself and gosh. I notice you been shown up to our role to our social events on Fridays. Fear in Africa and I got an idea. He was before you won't come nearer one coming and he goes eagles. That's good

I said, I'm an open it up, two guys in the in the J three I didn't. I got them all together and I talked to him and I laid it all out, and I told him what I was doing and I said I'm the Freaking coward, but I tell you what I'll do right now. Is you won't to get taken out of your job? You won't get taken. You won't lose your clearance. I will back you up one hundred percent. I don't care if it is DOD policy, they I don't care, it's not the right approach, so I get you back, we did it and I'm telling you a lot of guys. I carried that over when I took command a special operations Command Africa on twenty four April, and I got window unbelievable

twenty six months. It that's what I thought were in discipline. Issues with alcohol and drugs was self medication, disguise trying to figure out how they're gonna be able to leave ate their pain, deal with their issues and still be to do their mission, the best of their ability and ends in South Africa. We put even the deploying troops, it came over, we put him to programme and it was huge Navy seals marine special operators, S F, Airforce, guys we get testimonies from wise marriages were saved. We decentralized the the program, like I'm, a browsing new share which we're up in orbit witches. In the middle of nowhere. It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from their enormous and

I did my skype. You know meeting with my therapist right. I mean I still see a therapist right To sum up, I decided to continue, but I'm very high functioning person, and that was my point. These guys are still high functioning in their even more high functioning. If we give the treatment any it's just a mental injury. Fifty two people we we diagnosed with Peter four hundred and seventy one with with traumatic brain injury, four hundred and seventy one and there's only one guy And you believe how many people would pay management issues? I mean and sleep issues or the definition of a sweet. You know sweet problem, we are, and- and so we got him- the machines are the mile thing, whatever they wanted, and That was unbelievable. You know, if you,

If you get less than five hours a sweep your boy it operates like it's got point one: zero percent, alcohol on legal. Made of driving under the influence. So for I don't know twenty five years or so I was shit faced it Without taken a drop of alcohol, you know in Think about your decision making and stuff like that, and so. The New York Times came into the unit, said: hey we're gonna, do an article on Africa and then we started talking to people said that's not distort the story is how we're dealing with post, traumatic stress and tb I and getting zillions and running this back. Any of that story, you should ask him about them: she asked me about- and I told her that became the story. I wasn't a popular story, but botanic man not a popular story and

I was told to stop talking about it, the more we talk about it more problems. We have said why. I don't agree with that. I think the more we talk about it. The more we understand it and least problem we get guys in therapy and we can do it without degrading the mission. I did I had ninety six nine, six missions and special operations command and eight hundred and forty six associated tests, and I had zero zero detriment in mission and guys got better. I mean drug and alcohol abuse in all incidents went way down. I went to zero in misappropriate. Ah, you know Miss behaviour in the in the workplace, zero right. They sent a team from deal d to investigate what we don't write and I said, hey it's just or taken care of mental physical injuries and spiritual

so calm had a great program that they brought in with that in agree, the families, and we had that and we created in our headquarters, and that was something that I had nothing to do with, because the rules are that nothing gets reported the chain of command, and I'm ok with that right now. No right guys there with their families, Workin out problems It was really unbelievable. After twenty six months of me in all of this, and uh yeah. You know it was for me- was a whole price source of leadership and learning and understanding and then being able to say you're strong, not weak if he asked for help and I had three suicide. My unit, I enough shorn first class in Kenya, six month, rotation, Canyon,

combat operations with the kenyan special ops rangers against AL against AL, should Bob and ISIS Maya s great work, packed up all his gear cleanness quarters that he was standing.

But you know they before his redeploy went out to the range sat in a chair and shot himself a man. There was more painful help for him to go home at that point time in his life and his two to make process, then so he took his life. I tell you what I took a knee on that one. I mean a big me right, and so I said we can. We can allow a dab bad enough, the loose somebody a new unit combat but suicide and, of course we missed all kinds of warning signals. Everybody must warnings in Albany family now, but the family was afraid to talk because they were

aid. If they say anything, then it's gonna hurt their hope, their husband career, and so we need to be better, make sure done her career make sure they get to help, because we can do it. We get a lot of white space on account of guys come back, we can make it work in taking these health assessments and gonna walk. You gotta have take these programmes, and you at that, Antonia, rich, but greasy. Who was my senior unlisted adviser, Navy seal rake? I love rich. I know Richard! I had the same issues and we would further unit and we would talk and we would share a personal experiences and we had an everyone's back. The only person that didn't they get taken off was certain major of are shifting you know our direct action team and that's because he took after we talk to me took

forty five in disguise. The next day over, launched all ran up to the programme, when he was getting his mri to see. If he had any traumatic brain injury, they found a tumor about the size of an eraser on his brain. He got met a back to them to Walter Reed. They took the tumor off, they said, hey, You know if this had gone another year, you would have been figuring out an end, the life plan, and they replaced his left him that he had been. Ah, you know dealing with four years and he was a new man, right and an advocate of this whole programme, and you know after he left the team. Went off to our training and has been in, advocate for this and in promoting it ever and this is what you get you get guys with a better understanding of bottom up, but they gotta have that,

Down cover and Fraid still not, there needs to be there. We gotta put it there. And- and you know, I went through. Though, you know what everyone else goes through. Hell, I'm weak some wrong with me. I am less of a man, and that's none of that. True right. So that's that was your last tour was. Was that right. That was it. You know it's funny. I joined the army. Twenty nine June nineteen. Eighty one. And I gave up command my retirement ceremony on twenty nine June twenty, seventy

I didn't retire officially until two August twenty seventeen, but in all idea came home and went on terminally them started, helping veterans put together a business called truth. The power which, on which I was doing really well with at about four speaking events a month which was good just bring it in the money that I needed when I got hired to be an associate professor at New England College and I just got laid off, I was trying to find a job I got laid off in May trying to find a job, so I ended up, applying to Hampton Police Department, and I am now a fifty nine years old, a police recruit in the New Hampshire Police Academy on the platoon later and

my the youngest guy in a class of nineteen years old and unlike wholly crap and so graduate November November nineteenth, and it was because a nineteen eighty I was in class number fork is member. I know you're buying a police officer, and I am now in class, two hundred and eighty one and so yet, most work and working at Hampton Police Department, which is the town right next to stratum where I live now in New Hampshire, its Seacoast. So it's right there on the beach and a majority of the the work there is patrolling the Hampton which is which, be cool and it's gonna be a high venture you have your baywatch yet right right. You know I mean I've, always look where

Can contribute- and I at fifty nine years old, when I it's quite a process to cause, I applied, get my test Dave of three may and I went and took my test. With twenty seven other young guys- and that was the standardized test right, So I am taken a standard. I test no forty years vows nervous about their rights and I took the time. But I passed much to my dismay in surprise and set up for my oral interview and I had the lieutenant sergeant and petroleum patrolman and they go are we know we'll. We all voted for you right. Lastly, we are, we know we are and we know what you ve done for our country. Why the hell do you want to do this? and, I said, edges looking for a way to contribute, and you know

there's no more to it than that and Ngos. Ok, sergeant start to ask me questions and it gets to the patrolman egos we don't have any experience ass. You like wishes, and I suggest you do. Your police officers will bring it on, but none the less. You know you do the polygraph and you do the physical fitness test and you do that. You. Do the psychological test Then it was like going through special article, nine in all those things that led up to you gettin in get a qualified physically and mentally. You know: get a pass. The the the full physical task- and I have two prosthetic kip- and three prosthetic discs because of combat injuries, and that was The thing they were worried about the most right and I said: listen I've jumped out aeroplanes for these things. I can certainly him patrol nigger fuck, that's ok. I guess you can write and

and so my wife thought I was not so that might seem like knots and what it seems like even more not to me is you entering the political arena? Yes, that what brought that about, I was asked I was asked by I got a lot of emails texts and letters. Phone calls, from people in all ten counties in New Hampshire, all fifty states to include- cross russian alter ask a meter. For office. And I thought well with people, think I can help him. I don't have all the answers. Certainly not a politician I think there are many people in a military would attest to my my lack of Portugal. Human, because it's just not there to straightforward blah blah, but nonetheless, You think I can help you. I'm gonna try

So that's my why for running, and and so you know- I I just wanna help our country, economy, help us become more fiscally responsible and help us be able to improve the state. Insecurity of American, so that we can all live the american dream. That's all I want to do right. We also took a notary still valid, I still believe in and and The american dream and the greatness of this country- and I have a tremendous amount of it- of exposure to what other people and other places across the world think and feel about American, the promise of Amerika and I think that, regardless of your political beliefs or spectrum that you fall on, you know, God

family, community and country, is going to appeal to everybody and that's my platform. Nuts. And that's what you're doing right now. So what is it you're running for right now to serve, but he knows United States Senate. In New Hampshire, where were you ve lived for fifty nine out of fifty nine, where you ve been a resident of yet another? Fifty matters, that's right. I've been a Republican in that state for forty two years, nine eighteen years old,. First present I voted for was thrown rig what's the winds that election time one so the primary in New Hampshire. So if I get another Republican, that run is gonna run against me, which there isn't one yet the primary elections in September of twenty twenty two and the

the general election. If I win the primary again, the Senator Maggie has, in a Democrat who's been our senator for one term now will be four November. Twenty twenty two I dont have a political machine behind me. I gotta get my name recognition up and raising is huge. So gotta start earlier than those that have already established politicians, and so I'm out now campaigning were raising money were getting our message out there being very well received. Ass Paul. You know months ago when they did a pole. I was at thirty percent, I'm now up at forty five percent, so moving in the right,

people want to how bout where today, where do we find you? Would I go to help you out. So my website is W W w dot dawn baltic dot com, and you know you can go there and you can either you know with you to help the campaign out if you're in New Hampshire. It's easy to do You just sign up. You know everything right there on the website, my positions there on the website. So if your interested now, I feel in the second amendment or whatever its there and of if you want to donate its You know I start pretty low. I ask folks donate twenty dollars and twenty two cents, twenty twenty two to my campaign,

I get a lot of people to do that. I get a lot of money in its you know, anything helps by dollar ten dollars, twenty dollars and twenty two cents thousand two hundred twenty two dollars that helps to, but everything helps and and I'm just gonna go there to serve point three million people in New Hampshire and I'm going to serve every single one of them, not just the republic. Party, but you gotta serve everybody. Once you get in that office right declare office. You know my my political beliefs, line up as a Republican, but That doesn't mean that I don't. I won't work for more card for everybody in New Hampshire, regardless of whether an independent, democratic, libertarian right- and I think that's what we ve lost in this country with the political divisiveness. We can't

come together on three very important things: our economy, fiscal responsibility and safety and security of Americans. We used to be able to do that. I'm a big fan of J F K. I mean big fan. In all and he would not even be recognisable. Today. Right has my backing. More of Republican than a Democrat today. So we got to come together and we need people that I think I've had the experiences in life. It realised that were stronger. If we work together, then we and we are apart and are we gonna? Have our differences? Yes, but today differences are just too much too Jerome, what's really important, God, family community. Also, do you got social media to write? Do yeah we're a yes, sir, we're we're on social media of everything.

Be remiss though, if I didn't didn't dumb didn't mention a fact: it everybody that ff not. I was coming here to talk on your shows like out of there and it was across the political spectrum. That way, which is which is which is really neat and no no one more excited than my son Zachary, who serves New Hampshire National got, he was speechless, I mean like they got the jackal. You just can't speak right pinnacles. Why did you tell me- and I go I don't know I mean I just you know, but where we have. I worked together with the National Guard extensively. My deformity Romani. They were there when we first showed up, and they were just complete warriors and professionals? and was non reserve with those guys so hot

nothing, nothing but love for the National Guard. Our sir he's coming up on his six years and he's going to become a veteran he's already made that decision, but nonetheless proud that he served his country and my youngest boy mad a senior at Purdue and he just finished his his loose and training so so their uphold, the tradition, he'll be a second lieutenant on active duty. Look out another ball ex common values. Also, probably probably good places stop echo you got anything yet quit going back to the marijuana fields. Phone the slightest go deep yeah and you mentioned booby traps. Yes, like woken up would be trapped in the mill that there

The marijuana growers back in the day would put booby traps around their marijuana feel so people wouldn't sneak in steel them that are growing lie. What kind of booby too, so you would get a booby trap. Will you came across it and it would be just day it would do. Would kick off like em, like a ditch of like napalm? fire would come up also a violent brute booby trap farms, the old ones with like you, Do you not know that era stuff where, but you won T stay hundreds Dixon in that they would. They were spring loaded kind of things and they would come and ages hitching a fire the leg or what have you up body, though those kind of thanks is always there were serious. Stuff back and workers on Klein in this back in the day to one when it was legal but

data booby trapped, but it would be, they wouldn't be violent, booby traps they just like alarm tightly, and I have heard one where they had just like. In cases of a mouse traps movements like a b c, if you stepped on ever you not delay. Would anyone like let you like a bunch of birds taking off or whatever but louder? It be something like that, like that kind of study and those two islands, early early warning, Devise yea have that and they also had the closer you got. The worse off. It was voyage and that's why the the the forest rangers were always You know they were very appreciative of us going in there because we take it very slow and all our guys were trained very train very well and we had, you know we had some technology to help us out as well. So

but yet there was there. It was ugly and we're lucky that we didn't set any of em off able to either go around them, or you know neutralize and different way. Was you know or fashion way, with with the. The rope in our grappling grappling out watch what happens. That was a good show where we weren't around that run on any closing thoughts. Well, I think the only closing thought that I would have- and since this is you know, you focus on leadership. A lot is a like the let everybody knows it. Throughout all this I realise that I was imperfect leader. And that, as long as I remembered really three things

to remain humble thankful and grateful, and that I never let my ego gettin away and I was always self aware of my weaknesses- worked on those and what my son be what they are better off for me and everybody else around me and these type of ship, those are the things that you do and to show, does for anyone who listens to it is she is is hugely important for America. Right now, but we more than anything else is effective leadership. It is, it is a huge, huge issue and something that I my experiences teaching in college and being around my own kids and being around others, his death, thriving for before a leadership, and these examples that we have seen

in the past and- and you represent that here we just show- and I just want to thank you for this opportunity- and I'm I'm humbled and grateful for it, and- and so thank you for do unthankful. Let me tell my story well better. I thanks for joining us more imports. Thank you for your leadership Your service to our great nation, your sacrifices overseas been along war for America. You were there for most of it and that saying a lot and you are still continuing to fight for America. We appreciated. Thank you. God bless you. Thank you very much and with that general on bulldog has left the building deaf. We are seeing a lot. Always looking to improve, haven't got some we can therefore take away

maybe we can all look to improve. Maybe that's good idea echoed Charles is sir. Any suggestions and where we can start to improve ourselves. What we got well he didn't mention. How he's hidden use, the oldest one cadet in the past is it safe to assume he's the? I assume that only a United Europe but he did imply that you enough, but the fact that the point is he's out there, staying capable talk about jumping out of planes with him, a certain way to the extent where they're, like all you pass just, you can do, you can still do this can stuff you were this capable urine? The hips pass muster the We re going to get member there there like come! Oh you would you know they are concerned about his whenever any there can jump on the plains of these ships like and then you can patrol boat right point is,

very capable high levels of capability, fifty nine twenty nine. Nineteen years old, whatever we're maintain in it. The clock is ticking carcass I heard about that one. So we keep ourselves capable mentally physically, of course, through this path of cable the capability chasing were chasing capability, of course, through democratic. Some beatings, underwear Take it from me, you do some jujitsu beating something! ten thousand back yet sometimes is gonna get squeezed on our saw tee in a hot, like I said here after world with you that one day in, like manner like I feel like I've got hit by talking you're like Aleph, full body dams, nowhere, its women

for body. Dont psychological gets an emotional damsels you out for men and that's that's real in all these. It does just one of the many examples of the beatings you can take on this path. No problem. Sometimes you need some supplement nation help through those beings. In fact, you get through these beatings. That's when the capability searched emerging, since, in addition alone Of capability anyway, that's some supplements for aid help. You help us so far. Supplement own talk about is a new era of energy drinks straight up to the old, new category new Category category new paradigm shift through three Romeo discipline girl. He saw. No sugar is a healthy energy drinks straight up that actually taste good. Yes,

want someone wrote a I thought: Joggled didn't drink energy drinks, I heard him say he didn't drink them unless he really needed, and why is that? That's true, as the fact is before this came out we're gonna wanna drink, one of the other. The energy orbital would you want to drink those unless you had to get here, I've got a nineteen hour drive fourteen hours into it. I'm fading, I need than a boost me up for the next three hours. Ok, go overdose. Would caffeine get your jitters on, but you get there. So that's I used to do for sure, now. The suddenness I oh I've got something that I can drink. Actually healthy for me, and it gives me the benefits of energy. Will right is a no writer stirs up Do I drink traditional old school poisonous. Energy drinks, the answers. Now I dont are you

Occasionally, if I needed to now do never need to do that again because we have an alternative, that's functional and works so he's good Dietrich come Boucher. No, have you ever tasted it I've, probably it might have almost touched my lips, but Agnes smell stuff and I don't like animals come come, which is no exception in that regard. Bright, taste, junk despair, I know p. Including people are unrelated to that are so down with computer again get again or females like computer than male. I dont have those numbers in my family. That's what I'm going out with my family. Females are drinking, can butcher com butcher? What does it get Campbell? Computer drinking females, males, not drink my father and my freedom makes it straight up process its offenders, who rejects it Yes, sir, he dug, but In my experience, yet more females are into coming

Males, but that's not the point, the point is: if he ever tasted it you're like cool computers, so healthy the deep talks and whatever they say, welcome, which item on other day or its healthy will just say, brought a daisy alike. Are you all ensure that taste for the health benefits he's insane, but there's no reason to do nothing more than a thing. So this one especially the mango flavour, you drink down, you're like wait, a second taste good and healthy and gives me energy No no lose situation after so everybody knows that the. The mango flavour, no difference other than the flavor. Yes, you can, put it over here on a pedestal of whatever it tastes the best. So in your opinion, yes- yeah. I think any of the consensus still didn't being formulae because new, which is another

can a novel, Thurston new flavour. So you know what you're gonna get down. I always go back to old, faithful dog. Upon her. I can't I can't argue, tat right legitimate. Yes, Sir J P D now pointed out that upon her tastes, good, whether it's like room temperature are whether it's called yet where's. Your good. You got oranges later to measure. So you get your oh, it's called chocolate discipline go if you didn't know already, which most of us do no, but we do want a kind of reiterate these things about it. By the way, it's available in while all right now and we're working on a bunch of other convened. Stores. You ve seen it, but everyone has been going out to Walla Endless cleared shelves. Thank you because that makes the other that you're actually helping everyone in the in the nation ping fm uneasy because other Convenience stores look a wall on thing. How do they know how to do in a row? Yeah you're, so a lot of stuff so that other community stores guy. We want it to.

And they're saying that, so we appreciate EAST Coast troopers out their clear and shelves in Walla, yet does sense right, if you're sick convenience store owner right, I got to make some decisions whatever and you can be like way too. Healthy energy drink he's going to be thinking, Kombucha or something like this, where it's like cool it's new. These are good whatever. But why was aware demonstrate neighbour in the seventies good too awful illegal? I get it now another kind of connecting the dots little bit. That action is all this dad Zambia utterly and has been great so again, sincere appreciation. Everyone, that's Barone, Alta to Walla and is getting it prescience. That's awesome and you're helping America because now The rest of other convenience stores are getting on board and then other people will have access to this wonderful, nutritious. As as jobs Mill said, nutritious and delicious interest in Indonesia, I am fully

also other items that things that do help us on the path is. We got some joint stuff, joint Wherefer Super the oil Did the every joints daily and the thing is that the big deal- and this is like we always say that is one of those things where, This really pays for itself in a way, That's like invisible, because you're not worried about you joints. You'll feel the difference. When you don't have an oyster, here's inheres interesting. We have massive amount of subscriptions to those two so Yes, yes, sends me every month because they want do not miss out on that goodness yet and then, when I was just worried, they don't worry about that. Ten. If you want to subscribe to it, you get shipping by the way, which is cool. We don't have to pay for shipping. You can not pay for shipping. If you go to a vitamin shopping, get all the stuff of vitamin shop they ve. Also, supportive

It has been supportive, rowan and vitamin shop buying stuff, so very cool. We appreciate it will keep making bulk will keep making things. It tastes good and are good for you thus order Jackal fuel dot com, Neil also. Or genuine, say darker, this is where you can get american made. Denham shoe or boots some, all the coolness of the beaten thinks up working pants got some Judea, stuff on there as well. So if you join in Digital Viet or maybe, if you do have a key, origin and always come now. Some new keys new yeah I said that kind of it, but let's face it, the geese it at origin. I put put have the floor like one of the first refugees I have as one it yesterday where were you yesterday of toy summer, while where's training on the massive justice, Sir, I was wearing the first, a dish, white risky sings, afraid

I believe it is like a whole new thing era a paradigm shift their as you said that you have that either there the best that the only downside is that you will potentially spoiled in no way throw away your other, or at least marginalize am I had I put on one to see. Oil is still fear and in a few, if any feeling you like, but I would never wear this- I'm cool respect of one of the old one old ones and is it gauges and simply went out of the rotation, and possibly you know it has bad karma. Why? because it was made by a slave where China,

What school too is in you here you can see, is on the origin. Youtube channel is like it's. The opposite of slave labour: it's like it's one thing to be like ok of slave labour. Ok, they want to be there the kind of in a way like obligated or forced in one some way to be. Then they gonna make the stuff. Ok, that's terrible! Obviously, but then you have like maybe the Koran could standards like hey? That's the job, they're gonna go and then going to do it. But origin. You go their brothers therewith every single one. You see em all men, they hire the crank air about that stitch. Zooms and they care about like the whole deal than they make their giving you get to where it has been positive. Com is karma with that around back with those genes loyal working pants, supporting american economy as well. Part of the whole gig amazing. So when one way across the board- origin, USA, dotcom cool stuff on there miracle- also we can of course do Jack was a story called

Jacko store. So he has this political freedom, shirts, hats, some rash guards on their duties on their short on their ownership that's good. With or without chocolate face. You got the option now. You are some good stuff on there today. If you look at that stuff, you like something get something we do have a subscription situation on there as well couple shirt, locker, cool designs. Depending on your very good, Sir But we think they're called general consensus there, cool designed to fund in a little bit different, simple, say: creative I've heard the word creative thrown around. Unless you can check that out is, what's all at Java Store, Doesn't scribes subscribe to this part gas. Wherever you subscribe to podcast, you can also subscribe to unravelling Jacko unravelling we Darrell Cooper. We ve been making. Some of those lately is grounded podcast, which we haven't made lately, There need to be revived from the ashes possible

a warrior goodbye gas is another one manner from. Look here of new that one question for Uncle Jake Wednesday, we're pocket kid podcast coming out, I'm only made our thirty seven own recent, like that. But they're they're, gonna kid get back ass? We also have Jacko underground dot com. We handle that's a little by little sovereign area of the inter webs that we built to make sure that we can remain free, out here and because, These people do and are all kind of weird stuff. With these platforms out we're on sulphur, Things been corpuscle repression, but contingency eyes. You can't just. You can build your house on someone else's bland because they might come round and kick you off right through me in her own land. I'll Jacqueline around dot com. If you want to help us support that land,

She went up if you want maybe little room on that land, maybe one or plot we'd get you. Because a dollars needs as a month, if look and if you, if you need to come onto the land, the sovereign land of the Jackal underground and you can't afford it's. Ok, we want you, there is longer in the game. You can email assistance at dark underground back home. That's we preach again for real. If something or sideways on these platforms, we're gonna be there and as a appreciation. We do another little podcast juicy about an hour we talk about some other subjects. We answer Q and a questions that have been sent directly to the underground. Then we hey. What's up, that's that we also be you too general and a lot of people correctly identified on the latest release of the mayhem movie that ECHO Charles, made a lot of

I recognise that there was some powerful assistant directing on solving the garments strong. Eighty two and eighty presents I'm laces and director and and also in a kind of supporting role in that what do you think so? Actually, you might have been the leave alone, but are not. I had zero lines. Workers they were powerful. Though that's the thing you're zero lines, could you hold performances as big shocker actor Backhoe made a movie and eat the star of it? That's kind of the feeling that most people got Ty meantime sent me like The clear was talking about it or whenever in HOLLAND, You know that the time your your clicking on the cat or whatever in the end they have video whatever Agus meat. I guess at the end of the day, has given you props for that, however, and I feel like

everyone, including meantime, is kind of disorder. Recognising you straight up, you're the eighty. System directly and I signed on when I still feel like I'm eating shadow of the star the person with all the lines yes and the most camera time. If you are I know that you do Yes, are you do agenda? We do have on top of given this system director, we do other video version of all the stuff. You see what General Don Bulldog looks like income on here, yeah and needed over you to jail. Youtube is one of the things. Now, it's not just the video thing anymore. It's like some people, it's their preferred method to like watch tv, listen upon guess, whatever side day it in we got you. That's will that this whole thing, I think, I'm well. I was yet I mean anyone worth TV, Ike actual tv like a show that happening some Dvr

I don't know, people still watch it live like live. I don't think so might be very low numbers, unelected commercials and stuff. So commercials or a kind of a non starter for me at this juncture. We live it's weird, my kids kind of the same way is like I like light commercial, not all of them, but what phosphor throne? But if I see one that I'm not gonna, let me see that commercial, like it's kinda, there's no commercial, there's like us. It consumes commercials, there's little story within the commercial good I feel it with. So yeah anywhere near? The point is whether you do tenable subscribe to subscribe, to say other your of psychological warfare. If you don't know what that is an album, go out with joggled tracks on their telling us how to get. Past or moments of weak, this one we have them. They have them from time to time

But you don't worry about it can stuff with the hotel you why you should get over one hundred percent. Success on the one hundred percent Fiona Hank, something cool on your wall. Why, make it something from flip side, canvas dot com that my brother, Dakota Meyer made owns, He is the make phone. How do we make fun of it here? creative artistic director of that. Dakota creative artistic director. Total he's always wanted. I've done it good title, that's Dakota! one of my heroes and if you want to get some stuff to hang on your footsore canvassed our camp got a bunch of books. I've written a bunch of books, but the one that's coming out next is called final spin. We

oh, it's a novel. We don't know if it's a palm, we don't know if it's a manuscript. We know what it is, but a tells a story story with some lessons. I let my eldest daughter read the book final spin and she got on reading it, and she came out the kitchen and. But I could see that you just got on reading and I know what you think and she started except to me what she liked to watched in like and she started While she was explaining when I set myself, ok looks like I found it, we got it got. What we wanted that's funny that which is to have some kind of an impact right. That's what we want year that thing to leave a mark a little bit. You ever think about that like. Why do we? Your cried during a movie now come on.

Zero near. He never cut your honour. When you did say when I was young ever the only Non you're young. Rather whenever the woman, I'm pretty sure e t, you know it's axes. I watch DDT with my daughter, whose wish she was eleven when I watch to whether this is the second this year, have you seen eighty lately Nellie Steven Spielberg no offence? That movie did not stand the test of time I went to the theatre when I was a kid. Is all that movie I was with a friend of mine and we were kind of you know, move tough guys. We fight ten, some like that. Little tough guys. You know, and we were boy. What's this movie wolpert remedy the end of it or something I don't know he goes home. I mean event right, that's like wolves and was to be there. So I watch it with my daughter and sort of bracing for her and I'm thinking all the school. She she just

there was bad, didn't stand the test, it I've, never jaws As you know, I mean jobs, one of my favorite movies that Steven Spielberg good job credit. That's needs a test, a time and then some now we go back, maybe see GM, some shark activity and probably good. I guess I don't really want him to do. You want him to know you like an old school so keep. The way it is right, but you're not gonna, beat quaint and Chief Brody rights, not happening I mean hooking who's gonna do better quaint, let's face it so steepest. I just stood the test. I'm gonna go credit. However Atbara wait. Why cause the story or discuss this present all things the whole thing the whole thing it was. I can ok movie, but I don't like ok movies. You know that doesn't do it for me. They had a blow you wangwana get. I want to get something to take an hour and a half to watch movies. Maybe two hours moves are not an This juncture, my life. If something is not good to go,

I don't know that when I watch and I will leave a theatre, how will leave my watch industry? We already know actually do sleep damn straight. I get some rest, oh yeah, if I'm with my wife, my kids and there's a bad movie, we want saw ok, Have you ever heard of a horror movie? That's called it it so the first one came out my kids really like that horror movie. My wife doesn't even watch one millisecond of arm the first version of the first of the new ones, because it is old, scrubbing the new once it is no good with the current phase in what here. That's all patent penny wife there. That's always the destroyer. Ok, so I watched the one of them and it was ok, Then make his raw attempt, so we actually went to the theatre to go see The second version of what I urge you to love does whatever we rowan there. It is so bad

I just was I I watched may be seven to twelve minutes of it. Maybe maybe- and I was out so got up from the other call upon some sleep, he woke me up. I saw the last the last seven minutes of it. It was so bad. And we are locked out of him like is not a matter of routine. Ok, let make sense ever Oak is Ducky Numbered kind, deviating, better care, tumblr, it's cool. I've never seen the new ones, and I saw the old ones like their super along to end quote Yet what they're doing in the good, but it the Newt, not check Or to like the first one of the new ones so thing I didn't see anything, but there they have a trailer for that really good trade there are a few of them, but it's the one where it's ok, Georgie than older brother forget, building our sleeping in his like hey your floaty like. If you come down here,

or everything floats down here with the ghost kid says, everything falls down there. I think that's what counts head first against EVA so is like come down here. You're float too and then like this This horror gonna, be like sir speaking. Avenue goes you'll flow to health It's really really well done China alone well, must be embedded in the movie I think so and remember will long term or when we're talking you're like all. Why did you start video or whatever and the whole phenomenon that some some movies actual lotta movies? I mean I can name a lot of movies at the trailer. Is that ETA, though movies like watching the trailer, provides better like experienced and watching us to return, so that phenomenon is kind of what made me like wanna. Do it is it one of them, you have to say the tea distinctly. It did so final speech

We don't really know what it is, but it will do withdraw some emotion, some lessons learned some thought provoking material final spin. You can pay order now that way, get the first, a dish, it's gonna, be kinder, ran down the first, a dish of that meetings and the extra cool subject our leisure tragic tax field manual. The answer to all your questions is actually in that book leadership questions The answers are there because the evaluation, the protocols disciplining, was freedom, field manual waiting, your kid one, two three and four in making the dragons about faced by hackers, which I wrote the forward to extreme ownership and the dichotomy leadership. I got s long fraud, which is a leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through leadership. Go to ask on front dot com for details. Swear you can find details for our live offence. We have the muster. We have feel training exercise we have ye have battlefield next muster is in LAS Vegas October.

More than twenty ninth the next. Taxes in September September. Twenty four. And actually sold out. So you we sell things out if you want to come and go to echelon, front door, com and click on events in you can find all the stuff. We also online training. The Extreme ownership academy got lately ship is a skill You need the practices of perishable skill, you don't take wanted you to class. Now you can kick people's asses, you don't take one leadership book, read it and now you're good to go. No, you actually have to train that's why we meet made extreme ownership academy online of course, is the leadership Jim for you to go through. We have lived sessions, I'm on out there. All the time answering questions go to stream ownership dot com. For that, you. Wanna help service members, active and retired their families, gold, star families, check out Mark Liese, mom Mama,

she's got a charity organization America's mighty warriors dot org. If you want don't you want to get involved and if you want one of my anticlimactic climactic anecdotes or you need more of echo's yeah uttering yarns, you can find us on the what's on Twitter on the ground and on Facebook, echoes adequate ass. I magic awoke and again general dawn bold can be found on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at gin. G and Don T, o n bolder B, o l B, you see, sir, if you wanna, check out what he's up to where we want to support his campaign. You can also go to dawn, bold duck, dot, com dealing, be oil d. You see and thanks once again to General Baldock for joining us today and

or been out there from the beginning holding the line to protect our way of life, and the same goes for the rest of our service. Men and women out there right now, also holding the line to protect our way of life and the same goes to the police law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, E M, tease, dispatchers correctional officers, border patrol secret service and off responders. Thank you for holding the line here at home to keep us safe and everyone else out there on symptom, tenth, two thousand and one we were at peace and the next day September. Eleventh two thousand one we're out war. In one day, everything changed. And that's the way life can be two things change things happen get sick people get hurt. We lose jobs, we lose our loved ones. Anything and everything can change in

one day and when it does not call back on your heels. Instead go forward, go The attack and continue to fight until there's peace again then, until next time, Zayigo and Jacko out.