« Jocko Podcast

316: High Stakes Push-Back and Accountability. W/ Stuart Scheller

2022-01-12 | 🔗

0:00:00 - Opening

0:13:32 - Stuart Scheller

3:22:40 - How to stay on THE PATH

3:49:47 - Closing Gratitude

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is Jacobite gas number three. Sixteen with ECHO Charles and me Jocker willing good evening. Our committee somebody teeth two thousand eighteen general. Jim matters. Resign as secretary defence for Child Donald Trump and that letter, and in that letter he said quote, because you have the right to a secretary of defence whose views are better aligned with yours. I believe it is right for me to step down from my position then clearly general matters did not agree with what Donald Trump was doing or how Donald was doing, what he was doing, and so he deep down and you can read that letter online. The letter nation and its, he did it in as respectfully ass. He could. I think after he did, that things were
got a little bit worse between the two of them. the initial statement was certainly meant to be done in a respectful Two from the front, a of defence to the commander in chief. But it was certainly a statement stepping down when that happened. I was definitely disappear it to see. General matters leaving that position. And because then it then it's a situation where he no longer has any influence over what's happening. And gentle matter siren highly respected marine and leader, in the military, but this Kind thing has happened before. A harder line was taken by Colonel David Hack worth when he's oh gout, against military and civilian leadership. in his interview towards the end, the Vietnam WAR, interview with her new
program called issues and answers Sunday June seventh, nineteen, seventy one hears things. Here's an extra from that interview and whole interviews in the book about face but some of the excerpts from that he's been reviewed by name Mr Talker, Mr Top, nor said, in your view, did poor training lead to higher casualties in Vietnam? Colonel? worth replied. I am convinced of it. I think, our casualties, where at least thirty percent higher, because of or even higher than that, but I'd say just safely thirty percent because of troops that were not properly, reigned. I participated in a study group and the Pentagon and sixty seven and sixty eight. Which considered U S, casualties caused by friendly fires and the group composed of highly experience personnel that it served in Vietnam, and it was our conclusion that fifteen to twenty percent of the community's cause in Vietnam, where there is to friendly fire, one man shooting another man artillery friendly fire from
Artillery fire firing on a friendly element, friendly helicopters, firing on a friendly unit tax strike on a friendly unit, and I could count You in my own case, countless personal examples, for it ample during the battle of DEC two June the seventeenth a rocket ship came into my a company's position by mistake and released its rockets right on top of the company killing the executive officer and wounding twenty nine other troopers. I can all in September of nineteen sixty five. As my battalion was deployed, artillery fire in the wrong place, killing seven men in one of my platitudes. The interview goes on mister. nor says. Did the upper echelons of the army really ever become changed on this war did they learn from our mistakes? Colonel hackers, I don't think so. I dont think
at the top level, ever develop the realistic strategic plan, nor did they ever have tactics to support that strategic plan. And that is why perhaps we who have now Been vocal should be charged for criminal neglect because it is our obligation, it is our spots ability not only the train or soldiers well to lead our soldiers well, but to make sure that there are no mistakes made that they are put acted as well as possible from mistakes in error, and once you make mistakes, they must be surfaced. Critiques identified and remedial action taken. the interview goes on. Then it closes out with this, MR talking or ass colonel. Do you feel it is possible you have become? two emotionally involved in Vietnam. awkward replies. I have become emotionally involved in Vietnam.
I couldn't have spent the number of years. I've spent Vietnam without becoming emotionally involved. One couldn't see the number of young studs die or be terribly wounded without becoming emotionally involved. I just have seen the american nation spent so much of its wonderful, great young men in this country, I've seen or national wealth being drained away. I see the nation being split apart and almost being split asunder because of this war, and I am wondering to what end it is all going to lead to Obviously hack worth was drummed out the army shortly after that, in our view,. hack worth in matters are not the first people to resign in protest or because they didn't agree with what was happening. Another guy that hack worth refers to is general.
William Billy Mitchell, Father the AIR Force World WAR, one commanded. The first aircraft are first american Aircraft world war. One after the war, he started to build the air force and guess what the army, in the Navy Kind of reacting to it, because they they thought that there, ways were better and they He conducted feel tests against Navy ships using aircraft and prove that we needed air power. And there was a Navy airship like a blimp. Called the Shenandoah Crafton crashed in nineteen, twenty five fourteen crew were killed and Mitchell General. Your protested to the press, openly Accusing the war department of Quote incompetence and criminal negligence saying quote: brave airman, are being sent to their deaths by arm chair animals, who don't care other safety Mitchell was called. Marshalled convict
about insubordination and facing a five year suspension. He resigned his commission nineteen, forty nine, the second the Secretary of the Navy resigned as construction of a super carrier- the? U S, s United States was cut pay for the air force, be thirty six long range bomber program. If you ever read the book, dereliction of duty by a german master another highly respected general in one of the things he refers to during the Vietnam WAR that the joint Chiefs of staff. four Lyndon Johnson. He calls them I've silent men because they push back on some of the things. or a lot of things, or all of the things that L B, J and Mcnamara we're doing.
The army chief, Harold Johnson General, Harold Johnson, said after his retirement after he retired He said quote, I remember the day. I was ready to go over the oval office and give my four stars. The president tell him could you have refused to tell the country they cannot fight a war without mobilization? You have required me to send men into battle with little hope of their ultimate victory, and you have forced us into the military and force the military to violate almost every one of the principles of war in Vietnam. Therefore, I resign and I will hold a press conference after I walk out your door, but of course you didn't do but something he said later. General Wallace Green Marine Corps Marine Corps chief. And this is a guy that in world war, two fought the Japanese with a forty five caliber pistol at bayonet.
And he says in that same book in that book by the master key something along the lines of what. If I resign in protest. Ok, I'm in the headlines for forty eight hours, then what can I do and someone else carries on. I don't have an impact and that's a decent point. The legitimate point made by green same thing. I said about matters when you leave again it's a decision, but when you leave got to realise that your influence is gone. nineteen sixty eight Cyrus Vance who is a world war? Two Navy, gunnery officer. He was. He did reside as L B, Jays Deputy Secretary of defence. In protest to what was going on in Vietnam, which initially believed in Vietnam WAR, but as he sought unfold, he said this is not a good idea. Eventually reside.
He also later resigned as secretary of state for cargo for Jimmy Carter in protest of desert. One Because he thought that we should negotiate more He did that to talks I dont think either one of them had a huge impact. Ninety ninety seven AIR Force chief of staff paraded Vietnam, war pilot. Resigned at the perceived punishment that was To be imposed on the commanders on the ground with a crowbar towers were attacked and Saudi Arabia, two thousand six. Guy named Erin. What Tata Army. refused to go to Iraq in believe nor reside. Matthew how a former marine infantry officer. In two thousand nine resigning just as a senior political
civilian representative in Zambia, province in Afghanistan, wrote a scathing letter. Can redoubt online. Twenty twenty one, lieutenant colonel Douglas Hague, Resigned in objection to quote traitorous, withdraw from Afghanistan and all talked about an ideological marxist, take over the military and the United States government at the upper echelons resign. So these things happen And I talked about this and about leadership strategy tactics. I talked about when you should do this, how you make that decision, because when you resign, or even when you speak out aggressively and.
ostracize yourself as a leader. You no longer have influence over the situation. We are gone. Maybe your statement will we bring about enough highlight we're bringing to light on the subject that you can help that that year Resignation can help that's what you hoped for, but. It's not guaranteed and and and you may cause access cod inside the organisation you're trying to help but There are times when things have gone too far, or a line has been crossed in your head, and you feel you just simply cannot tolerate things. The way they are.
You ve tried to use internal methods, influences situation, but it has worked so you step out, and you speak out, and this is happening recent I'm record. Lieutenant colonel Stuart Schiller spoke out about these, disastrous, withdraw from Afghanistan when he did this publicly. And without authorization from his chain of command. For that and for other actions that he, Turkey was relieved of his command. He was a prison Courtmartialed punished required it depart the marine corps without retirement or benefits. Which is a steep price to pay to speak mind on what you're saying- and that is a hard decision to make- and it has consequences that will, Reverberate years,.
Band lessons. Hard lessons will be learned, we have a chance to learn some of those lessons directly from the source as Stuart Shower former lieutenant colonel former United States Marine is here with us tonight to discuss what happened. Stew Thanks for joining Us Jackal, thanks for having me that intro gave me chills bro you let that up real soon, so I'm excited to be here at go. I look for the couch Let's, let's start at the beginning, just to get some background on you as a human, so where'd you grow up. I grew up across the middle my dad was just an insurance salesman worked his way out, so we moved between Missouri, Kansas, Ohio going to high school in college at the University of Cincinnati High School in Cincinnati to then I moved virgin
again accounting degree it yours when you were in high school. What was it? Was your mom? mom, stay at home, so I got two brothers and sisters so forcibly and ass. She was always airforce travellers to soccer practice, baseball's occupier, any good yeah. I was out of state soccer per got forehead, but cop seasons, and I was always a captain. Always a leader enjoyed competitive sports did you make it to the stage where pictures you know in a higher they had, they still got it, but they had a it was called. Odp is like a limp dick development programme so that the trial for these regional odp teams- and I made the team and now the quiver, anything significant. What position did you play? every minute by club, high school college so usually
skinny runner out. I was a lot skinnier back in the day, as probably no one hundred and forty through high school so is usually outside halfback sprinting. But as I got a little more muscle, they put me back to the defense and then I got the college. I was up against smaller, so the necklace back on the outside and we were you in school, getting good grades and all that yes was always company. Easy for me, So there is an honourable by putting the work. I was got three five to four: oh yeah, I mean, if you put in the work here that's a big. I mean out I like to have fun I like to play sports until the school. Wasn't always my focus, but I knew getting a good education and no one to build a good basis important. So, if I put in the work of homework, I always do well, but there were times where I just
do it and then you pay the cost. What did you have interests in the military grown up? I didn't so. My grandfather landed at normally and I looked up to him a lot, but after his army service in one or two he got out was in the federal service and his brother was an FBI Sus. I get my counting degree. They were told me, get your counting agreeing on the FBI so always thought America was one of the serve, but no one in my immediate family other than my grandfather was in the military and so through high school. All I knew was, I need to go to college and get a degree and then a good job would be on the back side and I was getting an accounting degree and I thought maybe I'd go in a federal service, but kind of my thought process, all the way through school were you to graduate Highschool two thousand. I what he does it for college. So,
September, eleventh happened when you're in college its rights was, it was or can impact that have on you like a question, so I was in my sophomore season of soccer and we had hoped for them in the dorms. It was like a sweet words like four bedrooms in the living room, and I remember sitting there with my teammates watch in it and thinking while this is significant. Her lives are not change that analyses, gonna impact me and then, like I said, I just went back to a need to graduate college, has asked us to do so. Even most my peers joined after September, eleventh than that was sector, motivation is different. For me, mine came a little bit later ass. I saw September eleven, back to me, like all Americans, but I continued just going through school still, not even sure that I was been joining military at that time. So at what point? Did you get serious about joining the military? with that kind of sir working as an account and did not? Joint working as an account- and it was to the other four and I was watching the tv
and I saw the Marines moving through Felicia and I thought, hey we're gonna, probably be or for another five. Ten years, I'd love and opportunity to go represent America be a leader on the edge of the empire. I've always liked and competitive being on teams, and I just thought penal unpack. going to any time, but this war may not always be going on, and I want the opportunity to sir my country and so called the marine recruiter. Instead, my ma pass a really was two thousand four for me watching the Marines on tv, I need to get me some. How long were you on accounting for not long? I did it part time as I was going to school, and then I did it for probably. nine months after I graduated Didn Long before Lucia, looked better, did good, looking and spread on her respect its that's. for everybody. So So how long did the recruiting process take in two thousand and so do I
before you talk recruited for versus that's right out, quick. I talked to him. Probably in September and the hardest part was getting all the recommendations, like any college professors reckon I like in Resistance Cincinnati using one be three hundred like none of my instructors knew me, I had a comic opera, the gay you don't know me, but you fill this out. You know- and I didn't accomplish anything at that point in my life other than being a soccer captain Savoy. What did I have of that cause degree and being on a sports teams, will use poster realities, accolades and accomplishments and extracurricular, and so why don't you see what I thought that occasion elected us like me, but I submitted it in my strength- was a photo system, so smoke the p of tea, and that was easy for me. And within two months they selected men, I shipped out in January then where's rigorously us think Quantico how's.
I think for some hundred compared to accounting for some people to bodies. If there's a lot of prior list, two guys go through and I didn't know anything about the military man. I didn't know the difference between officers and enlisted. I didn't know the drill instructors are going to scream at us. I quite honestly thought I'd show up and it would be like a grown man rules and now here's the challenge figured out. yeah. I just I don't know why that's what I thought it would be and it just it was not that into you know the drill instructors I'll start screaming at you and they have you dump your bags and they kick your stuff all over there. At the parade deck and I noticed when they were doing that. All appears had their steffens about bags because they expected it, the one guy who's just laws. So my pennons in my tougher going everywhere course on the last one trying to collect it all up. It's a nice guy like five drill instructors circle and mean I'm like fighting through their chins to get the rest of my staff, and so I tell a story. to say it was illegal from day one that I was lost and any other kind of cap common hard at me. But my strength was, like I said,
racism and then relationships. So I was able a friend all the guys around me. from then, and I quickly went there. We do pure evaluations are two seconds. First, peer evaluation, I was at the bottom was lost, but by the third one I was like in the the top there right, and so that meant a lot to me. So I was able to demonstrate my peers over the period of instruction that, like hey, there might be more the sky than the losses, poppy. We saw on day one and so that this kind of the story of my whole entry level, training, when I was to get rid of guys that are consistently at the bottom of the pure evaluations they do so. The way it works. They do a board system until there's three boards through a sea ice and if you get essentially counseling's so if you're at the bottom they're going to give you a counseling and once you get a collection of them, that you sit in front of the colonel and have to justify why you're there he's Altima one that decides to cut you or not, and then also at us. Yes, you can quit, you can drop on request it, so it's actually pretty high attrition. So we started with sixty five and I think we got down like thirty. Eight
so I mean, but most of it is people are published. and be there anyway, quite honestly, their arson some very talented guys that I had one. That made it to the last day the day before graduation sky graduated from the university Chicago with mathematics degree their member, very clearly because his last name was Sullivan in Monticello, so I'm standing right next to him in the rock the whole time. The day before you just like, I don't want to commission an Tat we just let you re telling so the currencies as it is in he said. I just want to sit back and do so. That's like the type of God you want. You know It's always is blown away by that, and so then this guy made it like he had graduated from extensive purposes and just decided now and so there are some that go through all that and then wave off. But the vast majority that I saw get treated out, probably need to be it that and then you grow from right right from there to the basics or a threat and how How was that six months sought the deuce edges
the baseline of infantry leader ship skills. They say it's not screening. Technically, though I suppose to screen at Osiers yet you my later my career, I worked as instructor at Ozma S, Anti bs, and so I understand like behind the scenes of these two places intimately now too, but TB us is for all the open ground contracts like myself, were they ultimately determine what you're in a less can be or military occupation specialty. So it's a very critical spot in terms of if you want to do something specific you gotta distinguish yourself to be able to get that thing, and you learn a lot. It's more of a college atmosphere, unlike Osiers author Cask WAR, if draughts of course, which is like all fieldwork TB us is like lotta classroom work, you do some fuel exercises. Just two have a baseline of technical. But it's a lot of classrooms using open groundwater that open ground contract So when you come in, you either come in as a law contract, an air contract,
like jagged? Yes, yes, so law, air or ground, those are the three and so check bottom line is when you're a tv s, they can't manipulate the law or air contracts. Those were already pre written everybody else they determine their military occupational specialty at and how did you performance in tv as overall Was the same thing I showed up, I was lost quick story on that there's a transition where you go from sleaze down to sleeves up in the marine corps of loss. Lieutenant. Shall I didn't know that no explained to me how she us, and so we shall work and for the transition happen to be just between the ten days. we have between us. Yes in tv US, so I should to check here and on the whole we all my sleep is downright rose. Dubiously I put on my book so there again day, one and the one that doesn't know anything and was the same thing Harry Thou scene. I hadda like work my way up and I did,
and I was academically, probably in the bottom third, just because all the tests just road memory zation, and I try to memorize a lot of guys. It had been in the marine corps before it was just a little bit easier because they knew the knowledge inherently. But my would what got me up was like leadership. Evaluations are weighted, pretty heavily now always did really leadership evaluations have that work was I'd like you to unifil problem, so many watch noon evaluating how you don't yes, the great break down a tv s is forty percent leadership, thirty percent academic and thirty percent physical and the leadership is built upon different exercises. Rigour evaluated by your instructor, so it's it's fed by things you do, but still ultimately, subjective and even in the leadership score what they do is so if a patent manner has like fifty guys, they have to rank you won through fifty, so they can't give everybody hundreds so to make it fairer, others actually algorithm where they have to stick it in and
That's how you get a leash great. What is it just a typical sort of battle field problem that their put new Ani run in an ambush? Are you running a patrol or is it like? What's it like What a great you on Europe's some of them are leadership russian crisis, where it's like a complex. Is that not complex but there's a problem that you have to solve and typically they're not solvable. Their determining how you navigate the situation. That's not solvable their city she's readers, you're, the petroleum, hey, take your squad and go attack this fire team on this hill and all of our you at your based on that right. There's peer evaluation feed into it, so others that there is quite a few may probably a five or six different things you do mostly. I think the party the heaviest weight is the in the tree line. Here, squatter suitably comes out your squatter you're doing thanks to your doing packs one which stands for field exercise, or they have always feel exercises, and they just make you a leader.
Of whatever you're doing the defence, build the defence order and brief at last, going to be a big party or leadership great her yes shootin blanks at each other, you may, are you using miles gear. Some equivalent really highlights we have miles is now called I'd. Has actually I test to now same thing, but doesnt work very well the tree line. What it does do, those it provides, let graphical overlay. So if you want to debrief it like, you can show hey, there is the Lp O p. There is the sport by far to quit on soon when we use it it's more for after action purposes, doesnt, we just doesn't work very well, the tree of blanks as we found to be better, and then what did you want it? So where did you graduate in the class when it came to undergraduate so weighty bs works as they put it in two thirds, and so they do that. that's so that one MOS S isn't overloaded with all the talent, so if you're in the top third, you get your first picture in the top of top. Second, third, you get the second pick if you are in the top of a third get get third pixel.
came the sting of everyone wanted to be like the top of the third their numbers up, like I said I started in the bumper, but because my leadership grades, I moved up to, I think, the top of the second third or ended up. Isn't you get to pick so what you bear? I I actually I wanted to be infantry Oh yes, I said to my jewel instructor. I wanna be enough tree officer. In fact, when I was going to recruiting pipeline, I I also even told me they got. Does my recordings, I got an air contract and I was like no. I want to be on the ground effect on me. No watching the Tv Marines Blue, Jose guy might be on the ground, leader bios, yes- and I told him I was like be enough to be, and they just like every trail So shall I, like you, know we're gonna lie. Why were they rooted out about the Irish? They dishes are powerless to shirk the song and dance rage. I just want to comment knock you down. In fact, some of them are still friends with me, but I had the time you just don't really fully approve
and so it those were cast about around they had. So when I got the tv ass, I actually had infantry number three. So I put- I'm an engineer and intel officer above it one two and three in my they come as pc staff would take manner to captain using trouser Hitherto music Schiller. It would be a fuckin eritrea that's right now, but I was joking remittent resolution of waiting for him. The delay until after coming to gyrating after out now size and about by Eu Jargon is like now. I told you You ve been having ever jobs in you know Looking back, there is no way I would have made it as long as I did had. I had any os other than infantry officer. I just didn't know what I didn't know them and it's by far probably the best choice, and so in a lot of ways like I shipped my life and career and honest early gratefully did them. So then, get in future. This is often very office and how long is at three months, but how when was it so I
through us, yes January and March of the five Tb Us April two September of five and I'll see September December of off so rapid Father. A lot of time serves because basin went schools, pick up, people have two or three month breaks but for me, just worked out were in eleven months from showing up those. Yes, I will stand in front of my potential by mid December. I was I was there and you. I been getting guys that were common, fresh from the actually come back from pollution that you watched on tv, where your new doktor is better than that. What I said the one thousand eight hundred and eighteen was the center battalion of that attack that I watch on the tv. In the first speech I gave my platoon was like having your new platoon commander. Half of in sweats inside participating. Sergeant aside, the fact of the Heyward weren't they in the proper informing us, so they all have doctors knows because they all have shrapnel stoner body from the push through. that was like the moment from yours, recycle this is real from AIDS
like the waiter world? Had she had? The responsibility is so yes, it was very real when I should have to how was your office for that. Is probably one of the best schools Barnett, I mean they really do a good job. Parry new in the ammunition, three months of intense, intense infantry training. And I really felt prepared shown. I prefer my button. I mean that the report does a great job of putting a product of little button in terms of all search now. Are you gonna get some slip through the cracks? Absolutely there is no perfect system, but I'll say holistically from I just wanted to learn and wanted to be a leader it that are really good job of preparing sure they set up. Are you in a petition in your basic? We taken turns as leaders you're going out run and operations at the time the hotel in energy ass. Her course it's a lot more current,
eighty peace as well, where is the basic schools, the fundamentals and green side of building a defence? Very conventional type stopped the timeless principles, whereas if droughts or courses like this is the new So this is the idea that in Romania, right now so on and so forth, This is how we do patrol and five and twenty five right now So there is still a lot of time a stuffed the goes on I see, but it was really nice to get a lot of current Tt Peas commented at school house and then the instructors to add I'll see if you're a captain in your instructor your hand selected in most of these guys go on to become generals. Quite honestly, so you get the criminal Cramond terms. the young captains, that of just come off their first tour like the ring for pigs, thought best, Dakota, TB, us and then from TB ass. They pick the best at a tedious to good I'll, see it's a? U really just get greatest treasures. I had Branshaw Tosh, who was yes, oberstar, had Marcus mines who he got relieve recently is obtained manner, but in terms of like deep thinker, war fighter,
there was no better. I too have had a group of its quick quite funny when you get my instructors a lot of burnt out like the shot touches in the mines, but I dont however, ran into a group of officers that maybe were more outside the box thinkers and war fighters than that instructor Contra that I had there when you look back at that time is Ernie lessons that stand out to you like, oh yeah. That meant let that operation. We have a huge impact on me. I I think, just the mental toughness that the instructors oppressed upon me every single day is what I left with mean. I walked away with an impression that these infantry officers are the real deal. There were five here and there and they know their trade, and it was
a clear to me that I had to step up my game and I couldn't fake the funk because people can see right through it, and so I think the teepees always change, but the the third. the foregoing and opening the pub and making sure that you knew more than everyone else, making sure that in tough situations, you were there, They were looking to to have the direction to have that mental toughness that they might need you guys doing lie fire blanks both mostly live fire policies. See life are obviously you're, not shooting life at each other. So in the situation where we did for some force, it was blanks, but it was a tunnel IFOR did you learn anything about like the amount of pressure that you're gonna face today, do a good job of stimulating the the pressure we re facing combat situations yeah. That was the whole stick when Arizona What eyes were deep and maybe even swung too far to the other direction? He is
one time we're getting close to graduating and we had gone from the Desert of Mojave up to the mountains Bridgeport, and then we were coming off the mountains Bridgeport and they stopped its. Like Rinki, dink, casino, just let us get drunk those like the no nowhere were probably no one would get in trouble. as it were. Let him go nowhere at all the director guys still the Marine corps Regimental Commander her probably moved on by now, but he got to his. So he was the major he just got. hammer drunk and started scream and at the lieutenants that they weren't ready for combat right- and I am now is like one of the few times- were they Yeah, I'm still young and the curtain had been pulled back. Remember thickened, like I get it, you got more experiences me, but I'm not tonight. the fuck out, like you wanted me to lieutenant major like you don't talk to me like that, and so yes, they did a very good job of preparing us. But sometimes I felt like almost to the point where I was A little unprofessional times, you know, there's a line on high,
treat a man all right occasion when given opportunity, but I don't wanna be denigrated, and from there it sir, it's that's when you went to one day, that's right up, so in fact, most of the guys, because we ve graduated read before Christmas. Most, my fellow students took Christmas break in and showed up in January when I was deployed so fast at the bottlenecks are actually came. A dial c and took me in my six peers are gone when it said. I need you now we're Goin Ap Hill right after Christmas, and I want you checked him with all your gear meter, proteins and then you can take in a week for Christmas, internship greatly helped us, and so we did have an and you already talked about meat near balloon for the first ass I have said there is that and then I went into a united and have a house. I saw my personal life. I was My my girlfriend at the time and I had gotten engage, I got engaged at Christmas that week that I had often actually I take it back. I got engaged before it s yourself,
when I she was Workin Richmond. When I went down to one age, she stayed in Richmond, and so we live in. Unlike this shitty apartment babies, I knew I was going to point six months. My plan, all long was just do the first tour and then go up to rich men get out in and be with my wife. We got married in between Tv S, uneasy in fact Marcus minds that was telling about such a good instructor who see they caught combat endurance test. This is like their screening of it. It's like two doors of a marathon sex sixteen miles and they got like little stations like eighty four. Do they d for radio? Do the radio and then an imbalance? Ten miles in one of the stations is ground fight, Marcus minds as a college, wrestler and so yeah you work
exhausted. To this point, and this guy, I guess it is beat up on fired little lieutenants right leg per job. Do still doesn't he does in in now I'm trying everything I can to fight him and out. I thought I was done pretty good, nothing, because I've done pretty good he's argument but more violent and he elbowed in the eyes and gave me a black eye, and I got married that we see in our home pictures, but both black eyes wasn't there. So you want size of April Ap Hill in January and March, and we actually, we went on the planet in not universities and work. At the moment to so at that time everyone was corner rack. So that's all we train for mark that January to June was like we're gonna right. There is no question about it, but when I can fly there we're gonna get on, but we call
MU marine expeditionary and get on three Navy ships and you sail over their back on that day. No six, it was, it was a much bigger footprint back. Then the naval group had a submarine. They had destroyers of the a whole entourage back then, but over time and just navies degradation. It's not just the three ships, so we got on the ships we sailed across the Atlantic. We went to the Suez, which you know like a million a ship, so that would just fiscally. You know what you cross sooner and saint com I came on, but when that happened, Israel and Lebanon got into a conflict. This isn't my June or July those six, and so they actually turned round set us back to the Suez. And then we did a NEO noncombatants evacuation operation. We took american citizens out of Beirut. We set up a tune in there to secure the embassy, and then we took on Cyprus.
And then we sat there and stared at Beirut for like six weeks like I just did push ups every morning like there's Beirut, awesome, you know, and all I want to do is go to Iraq and so then, after, like two months into staring at Beirut back across the Suez, got into Kuwait. and then the saying you don't have the legs that appointment, because when you put people on a deployment there's like ye es cutoffs and to extend that would have caused more trouble than it was worth. They did take our sniper platoon out up Italian and sent them up north because of anal sex. It was such a sniper fight. We actually had unfortunate couple. Snipers were killed, so we end up coming back in time and had a memorial for the snipers, and it was so weird because most of us hadn't even gotten into Iraq and then we're at this
memorial. That was the first appointment and then you certain you will ride into another workout, that's right! So I mean we went so when I got back in December and we deployed to Ramada by September so like sixty seven months later, and I this is kind of the longest duration on going all that, but I ended up having to go to winter. Mountain leaders course from January and then I got back. We went to Fort Pickett all the April, so I mean I was only home and then we end up going to Mojave. Viper was what it was called back then, which is a two month deal I mean I was only home, probably for about six weeks, and I and I my wife quit job to come down and live with me in between that, and so we had bought a house and it was like you, I guess I'll see after the next climate cause, I'm just not home right, and so they ask for. The reason I didn't get out of the second appointment is just that she quit her job and had came down
when I was in Iraq and I'll just worn out, issues have already Do, as I pointed out like the Spanish, what's the plan after what figure that out, she's like weeds, bought a house please taken on the point of all, so we can see this out, but so yeah, the personal life was was tat the data. So when you came home from that deployment, will you went to Lebanon? You get back from that. And you immediately going to work up, but on top of the work up you gotta mountain leader, school you're, just gone the whole time, your wife, who had clear jobs. Now, sit in the house filled with boxes that you never unpacked failure of bad husband promised. I would paint the house and they appear to have done this girl before Jeffrey done natural before move to Virginia Beach, and I was there for two years and in that time I did too opponents Anna work up so much my wife. We never even took some stuff out of the boxes in the house that we buy it s so yeah. I did that drove the bathroom never got painted,
Neither does anything else until until when, until we're getting ready to sell the house, then I then I got a bunch of stuff done. I can beat that I've done moved to move where the stuff was still in the boxes. From the last move in the movers to take it out of the box is because we can't use other people's boxes. Unlike you only take almost on how the boxes are. You put a new boxes area This amount leaders course up a bridgeport. It is and how that was asked you wanna go just because my wife had clergyman came down and there had limited time this whole thing right, I put my neck, the happy they didn't know. My wife was quitting on the first deployment of a name in the hat. When I came back, though it you're going and at the last second, after my wife it quit. I promised him who launched. I felt like ok, you're, going why you know like flippin tables? How long is that course three months, and so it is very challenging the so called to mentally really takes a tall, but I'm a good skeer, a group skin and in ski resort, around the Midwest, and so that was
and back then they please don't do this anymore back then for weekends. They gave us a six in passenger ran and let us, as the students habits, that we had a gunny who didn't drink he just travesty Taormina, very weak and some of the pharmaceutical over the last came to San Diego was on that bridge portrait I'm so me, my body took a flight to San Diego and I had a guide who had an apartment in the gas lamp District in Minnesota, Moore and then you you go and deployment and now you're working up. You do know you're going to Iraq this time. Yet we believe a nerd going straight to a rather odd taken a ship, and but this is now two thousand and seven, seven by your work as in two thousand six. Now the work up. The work was January to lie those hamburger, but still Do you know where you don't? You know you're going to remedy the whole time? Yes, and-
at that time, still two thousand seven. You started work on promoting still pretty freakin hot. At that point, Romani was very hot. In January, O seven, there is a thing called. The cow am bar awakening. And so it was almost like too sharp pivot like right as we were getting, and so do you The we ripped with two five I mean they had just. It was like gunfight, gunfight gunfight and then in the last two months of their deployment and almost like somebody just hit stop. and so I created a lot of weirdness for us because it was like we were still operating under TT piecework was like gunfight, gunfight gunfight and it it really wasn't that by the time we showed up, so. Where are you wearing remedy? Where you see I was coming, So now and we I was on the South West Corner, why started a place called J assess iron and we had the two platoon outposts so as a company so
consolidating the patrol rosters, like the name of the game, then was always have patrols and about spacing- or we do not manage to get him to read so dislike, just saturate the battle space with presence, And so, as an ex so a lot of my role, which is making sure that we had good perimeter security of our positions that we had our gear and that the operational plan was like the optional. If you will at the company level, and then a bout three months into the deployment they moved us could we're at that time, trying to move out of the city to further up post, to allow the iraqi police to have more control, and so we base Built a far from the ground up, those called chairs a sewer, and this is also in the southwest out of the city now and It was caught circus. It was literally, I think, built by a sewer There is nothing there and you know, even though He had been in Iraq since what Oh three, it was
like we had never been arrive before so's I baby I've showers, no chow hall me was awful, it was bad, and so we did that we finished unemployment. and what was the eye things had settled down lot when you, when you had patrols out my city where they taken any contact with. Yet we had one turn that got and some context to the prom then was almost alone, don't say more dangerous, but it was like you'd get lulled into a false sense of stability, and then there be a suicide s attack and you lose guys. Oh my best friend, so I I did the first planet in broader company has behaved. Manner is when we get back. I was still a patent manner. Bravo coming, they moved me over half accompanied Exo, so I still have a lot of good friends or pretend commemorative. Bravo company, one of em, guy's name with day burden, he's two ways to make their views a piss burst. Yours,
Bengals fan. So we always have like rivalry games together with my wife, and he got. He responded to a sniper threat and a suicide vest came up to him. Guy wearing suicide, vests stand in detonated and killed, one of his Marines and and Blue Dave UP lost his leg, and so there's just an example of you know. I'm sitting there for two months with like nothing happening, and then I got Alyssa. Radio, to my body being evacuated out, lost a marine and there now and so yeah. So we had one platoon that all God combat action, ribbons from doing patrols and get in the fire fight, but they didn't really kill a lot of people. It was more than that. The plan was more just about like census. Patrol stability- building shit and try not to get blown up. I mean there was a there was the agenda Templeton. I might get the unit wrong without people two eight and one nine. They were doing the rip towards
about deployment, and this is still a story told in the Marine corps. While they were seen at the easy p, a huge tillers like to companies and because there are going to get a huge dumptruck blue to the e c p with a bunch exposes and all the Iraqis ran in these two young marine stand of these p from different units didn't know each other stood there and killed the driver and got themselves killed in all the Iraqis, we're talking about how brave the Marines, wherein we move almost believed that they were probably exaggerating at a little bit after this huge explosion, one of the key rose. Even look like it was was broken still had the footage and they went back and proliferation of eggs I feel like they said these two young marine stand at the Ecp. Noah never die, not knowing each other like in that instant realize what was happen saved embryos on that basis that to me that story almost describes what remedy was when I was there, I, like you, who can be standing on that b, p for seven months without a single thing,
all the sudden in a second visit dumptruck flying at you know, you're about to die so in an in so far me as yet. So I As always, it was like. I am not exaggerating out. Those like twenty all worked is constantly, and you know you go back and you ask why we working twenty our work days I can't put my finger on exactly what it was to seem like. There is always something that required like immediate attention and the ice container that I lived in was with my company commander in our one term, so it seemed like people were awakened set like somebody always needed. One of the three of us. I was stupid us move in hindsight, putting us during the same sleeping facility lego if Saddam and so like, when I came home, from remedy. I mean
started. Heaven chest paints a real chess, visible chest pins and I assume you are caught up figure out there with anxiety and that I didn't experiencing society during the planets like when you're working twenty our days. Yours go, go, go on it hit me like once I try to chill out, but I tell that just to say that I think I'm gonna go in so far ass. It is afraid some of the wires brain there for the benefit of some while tore through some of that, so you get home, you get home from that deployment and then what's next yeah. So let's get Ford the earlier, so I had planned on they. Now I didn't get along with my betraying commander on their deployment, whose very dictator is almost like verbally immensely abuses. I just didn't care for him. I didn't. I don't know. If I have agreed with the mission,
Romani. Like I said, I join because I wanted to be in combat, but I found myself as my company commando read the contracts and as yet so I was what was known as the page and I go to Camp Ahmadi need filled my book bag like two hundred thousand dollars cash and I run around and just give it to like these mafia figures, and I'm just thinking like. Is this what we're doing like this? Just I don't know if this counter insurgency, though this is what we do is like. I don't know this car preserves the because all the general talking about like how great it is but like even as a young tenant like I have a lot of questions. So thick tat was was influential. The mix of unthinking, like there's gotta, be a more effective way like these, I said I'm given the money to Renato of anyone else sees us, but this guy's not gonna, build stability here and erect discuss gonna. Take it you money. worse for the local Iraqi So anyway, I left I thought about getting out, but my wife's very much
some stability, I thought, but she deserved it, and so, instead of getting out, I took school. Every tree is accompanied me it was in North Carolina didn't have to move, and the goal was to do three years there find gonna, get a masters NBA and then go on next thing when I got to the school every tree. Very busy, was go, go, go schoolmasters, Vikas right, there was Iraq and all my instructors were Iraq veterans and all their fans these are willing to put their problems on the shelf when you're at war, but it's like they had an expert station for their husband when he got home that they would address some of those problems, and then those poor structures were workin, dark too dark, and I was like every single one of them were. Contrary divorce, like up Like my senior Lester, like everything one I was brain and chaplains bringing workshops the biggest struggle there was just the personalized and my guys they all had drinking problem sale had marriage problems. We are all working through there,
demons and then trying to teach three hundred per that's how to be infantry men without losing their cool, not flying off the handle, and so that was a most more emotionally draining than I thought it would be, and I did it for about a year and a half and toe I write about. Then it was so. Is it s this s? Oh I from oil tat if you go back over the noose around eight thousand nine, the camera, the Marine corps and Conway was saying you weren't to get the Marine corps out of Iraq and into Afghanistan. So was right when they were It is a pity I thought: hey you're my Romani deployment, and it wasn't the combat that I thought it was gonna, be it was there. Emotionally draining, but it was you. I wasn't shooting another time. So am I love to get in Afghanistan and then maybe get out just have that experience
so. I contacted my monitor and I found a deployment through an organization called joint id defeat, organization chaitow and they seems like there's a joint requirement for an infantry captain. He's like this is perfect. It'll get you there look at every volicon you want and you all you need is two years at Soi, not three. So after two I can cut you order to get your commands endorsement. We can make this happen, so I went and talked to my boss and my boss. Want me to do it. He was very reluctant. He wanted me to be the obsolete or the agent company commander Commando, just like the your bowser like he liked me were you instructing at all? When you read the ESA, why, or were you more just like all in management positions Jaso. They you get three hundred privates. So s alive is in two camps. So there's t, and I t be so all marine enlisted Marines that are not infantry, gotta and city and they get it
its evolving now at the new forest, but back then they got two weeks of effort retraining and I tb you got one month so is essentially like your father. School. So I got it and see tee. If you're gonna be a motor t driver you'd empty for two weeks, then you got a murky school. I gb they just get longer. in their effort remains, and they go into their fallen unit, and so again it its changing now, it's I think up like ten weeks for I d, but back then it was only for weeks and so that's outstanding. It is areas, So they gotten so we would get three hundred privates and we were divided into four patterns. The platoon manners were either ass, orange or and then each putting commander. had two or three instructors? So you never had more than three thousand two hundred and forty four, I don't know, do the math like seventy five guys, Such a law that the instructors dune ratio is not good and there is no other officers. I had a first Argentina gunning than theirs the young captain, and that was the stuff
so you're not doing a lot of destruction. You're not tie me not of what's going. I there were most of the instruction comes from. They have a separate cadre of instructors at the instructor group. It's almost like the staff that you have is almost like, facilitating and the after hours in the watching, and though the day to day leadership, now they're still a lot of clauses that we give out the field or or once they get back to the house and sometimes even scheduled platform instruction, but most of the platform instruction comes from general support instructor. So the question was: how much classes did I give? There were probably two or three programme company commander classes in the refugee impromptu hate it you're goin on Birdy this weekend under manner and uncontrolled. I I was very lucky in my career, wasn't structure which is strong, word used when back in the day, the day will use that's your team. There was just start there is. There is training, incited shield him. So Why doesn't he five? I was teaching
a bunch of stuff- and it really put me agreed position cousin, you're you're having to learn- better and then your teaching, it then you're seeing how it works and seeing the mistakes it people made. So I always felt like I learned a ton doing that and then later in my career when I was running training which, was our training, which is freaking outstanding, and but I got again watch, observe teach I learned so much when I was in those positions and that's why I wondered if you were the organic actively teaching and what you got out of their homes are at the the people that learn the most are the teachers and because you can't fake the funk when you're the teacher. after there's your five six seven hours, a prep for any one hour and instruction that you get at a minimum and saw how to prevent a grab worked at a bunch of form of co houses, and we we learn that abundantly the people they teach a really, though
learn, in my opinion, the I think I learned seventy percent of what I ever learned in my life. While I wasn t five instructor cadre at your team Wonka because I too that's a thing like a young single guy, so it was what watch my gone on Oliver. I teach diving to teach, diving warfare, gonna teach you see mouth at majorities in everything and back recon cool, I'm going on the spec recon trip. So really discuss the teach everything and then you can watch and your de facto detached from what's happening to you watch we used to teach the new guys that came to seal team one. We would put than through their nor financial course a training. So then, I'm watching the young officers- and I was I wasn't unlisted guy now watch these young officers and seeing like oh this guy,
he's gettin told you he's be spent in all this time. Shootings weapons are not make any calls. I never gonna do thou, never gonna make that mistake, and this guy over years imposing his plan on the rest of his squad, so they're all pissed at him. I'm not gonna make domestics or I got to learn like I said I might even be more than seventy percent from just being a young e five teaching at seal team one and then also you had these senor, guys that were super knowledgeable and their teaching you access frequent. a good way to learn. But then you get picked up for this jade ability. That said, the giant o billet was asked. I mean it was awesome, so I had no training, so I mean you have heard my story. Let my training in terms of ideas, so in Yogi Guy goes a school for sixty nine months depending on what branches service and what they did was they put me in Crystal City Hannah Help,
Lobby Conference Room, and then they had a fake name for the conference shut, lock the doors they like some old Idee maker, and he was like a crash course on how to make a circuit essentially and then how the explosives work and so did that for three days, they ship Maiden range, and that was that. Neither is crazy when you think about it, and I love you are the ideal expert level. I dont think they ever expected me to be the idea expert. They wanted you d, we see the expert, but what the bill it was supposed to do was be the infantry interface to have enough knowledge of ideas, but to think like employment of infantry stuff and connect the rout, Clarence, platoon and the ear d and then be able to translate that into whatever is important to the botanic manner. So you get your three schools and then You deploy writer, Afghanistan at my house. You how's your wife on this whole scenario.
my watchdog machine, so did I we got used like oh, your home, you're gonna have a normal job like a big. It's almost like a night and I got a pregnant. She was three months pregnant and then I want that gonna stand right out, story it just gonna illustrates the stress on a military family, so we were going crib shopper. She doesn't want Afghanistan, the child. Again, I was that we knew I was deploying when she was three. Throwing crib shop in women and, like, like the third storey, look I hate shop and to remind the third store- and I see a craven like this one. I want this. Let's get this one she's like I'll, keep look. around and, unlike what honest can stand here by this group that I like- and you can keep walk around and I'll be right here and then she just broke down cry.
It had nothing. This is the first baby. He, as is the first course kid. This is a bad that doesnt our story, like even my mistake of people, can learn from it. That's right, burger walk around books. Written groups are not out of it in so that's what she said she ass. She cries the I'm just gonna. Chiefly by this, would you go looked around come back when you are ready. I got it. I gotta building relationships is all about oh bad, move on my part. So then we had a sure I'll she's crying. I felt bad. We got the car we drove. Holland was, I wonder, is really awkward and tense situations. Weena bind the crib online costs, we couldn't rigour look for a again and and the I right, so I tell a story: to say yeah. I really wanted to go to Afghanistan, but come to these things come at a cost right, so I got a pregnant wife is trying to be very supportive. She was, What are the new standards even support of a meagre Afghanistan, but
does it mean that it doesn't come with some type of personal cost. so she's three months pregnant when you leave for Afghanistan, hello, the deployment of Afghan a year and a half You come home for the birth of your I when you get once a year to already too long, but you get two weeks. But I missed, I missed the birth, but I was able to come home like right issue check for days after the birth or right after she gonna hospitals. I d get two I with them, but I mean having to each with a baby you after you ve, been in combat every day for six months, knowing you're going back to that same place for another six months, it was Ill Harding, Stab Bush, any emotional connection cause egg, I mean that's just it was out almost have rather not gone home. To be honest with you Thank you when you're with them your minds there, when you're there you're minds at them, and so. Yeah some ways it was good but other ways. It was very hard
So you go on deployment. Who are you who you with? Shall I got just like a solo operation. That's right! You just stay. Shall ever I got to bottom, Airbus that's. Where giant is task. Force was ass, they call Testword paladin in Afghanistan who had two taskforce paladin headquarters, and they decided in good. Most Marines are familiar with Southwest Helmand in Kandahar, but they didn't send me there. They sent me to Rc East to support the hundred First Army division, and so I got out in the first unit I got to was a battalion called three thousand one hundred and eighty seven and they were in Eastpak Tikka Province and the fob I got to was or goon and their company fobs were also dispersed that any time we had to take them logistics, it was like.
one day: road trip throat, clearing, Splatoon, an eod and anytime. There was an EOD response way the fly out on the fly line when I say that just stay was very distributed in my most people or Marines. Picture of Afghanistan is just like desert wasteland. It was like the rocky mountains where I was at. I mean it was not what expect running out there. This is this is not the desert, so you could see Pakistan from where we're out of assist. It was cobbler country, and then what were you doing Well, I guess explained a little bit more detail, so you get there's a logistics supply that needs to go to surmount station of all illustrate with with one more story from that time frame. So
one of the company fobs hadn't been resupplied in a while, and so they planned this because in the July August it was raining a lot until when it rains the the aircraft couldn't fly, the logistical supplies and just because they, with all these jingle truck, says, he's easier to move logistics. So we took the shoes patrol, so I went with Ud and Route clearance patrol and all these logistics trucks out to this company fob and dropped it off, and then we got there. They said hey, we got this platoon outpost over here on the border near Pakistan and it just hasn't had whatever and so many days. If we really need you guys to stuck out here we hear the company five, don't have the assets to call back to battalion or like yeah. If you cannot be great, so we do so next day, then we go from this company fallout to the platoon father. We left at like eight a dot m because we re with it so you got a rough estimate. Rob clearance. Bassoon is probably a dozen you get. The EU detract in there.
you ve, got three dozen m wraps. Were you in the earth I remember I was out Emerson Jail, TVS Mix, but they also had lots of logistics. Trucks were jingle trucks you on that is ask any flatbed. Then you ve got the Afghan national Security force there. All in there s one fifty pickup troubles, and then you got probably if intrigue, platoon or come for extra security that may be unjust, hum these and so it's disk. So this is a big com or long collection of different players. Damn ensue. We drive through to get these things on the border. You there's not roads, you're driving through, like the creek beds of the mountain crevices, and we get to their at like. Let's go one or two of them, ass, others, fifteen vehicles, twenty vehicles, I Taylor, forty forty vehicles to go out and resupply. Opportune, yes, which by the way has forty eyes? Yes, So is there his legs already
you can see where this is like a crazy shit. Yes forty or so a forty vehicle convoys every type of vehicles? Mad max is driving out to resupply forty duties that are out on the edge of the world. They were on it. They were on the edge of the wilderness and so maybe like two o clock. When we come out of the creek bed- and this is relevant- the story, what came out of creeper divers like five Afghanis there? I think they're Orange Cross staring at us and when I must look at these- various characters like one of these guys. Gonna do enough in half and we were all- can I am in the relevant later. So we go into fogged. We drop of supplies off like three clock in the calls made like what we do is three caught minnetaki. This flow do the math eight three to get here. Do we want to go back to be asleep your nine again, forty vehicles, like the opportune outpost or like so probably
bad call me the hindsight twenty obviously tobacco about time Dismayed says he watches, go what we all get Beckley copyright we start drive back now. We're going back in that creep out with us, so now nighttime. Now it's like three clockmaker. When we leave it did it gets dark soon, so Womack indiscreet bed and were those guys were standing. They had piled a bunch of rocks up to them the creeper. Obviously this is gonna, be an ambush piled a bunch of rocks as marking mechanism or as a blocking mechanism, great question, Jack Jack. Hence we didn't ask that very intelligent. Why should we just immediately assumed ambush because that's that that had happened? Those before so we're like our discussion, ambitious, see there yet your eyes open you around nothing happens and
it's like alright. Well, let him trigger the ambush ever to go through it and we went through it and nothing happened, and then we just didn't think through anything else and we just started going so we get now it's dark. How will we eight a cock or the Afghans? your night vision cause. I know you're on the afghan to the jungle restaurant on night vision. I can't remember we're so far back that if their lights wrong, I didn't care. Did you question so. We were now like eight or nine o clock. It's dark and started raining, and I can't it's hearted ascribed it's almost as if somebody had broken a damn cause. It wasn't like the creek started slowly filling up, it was almost like a wave came down and hit the tires is like flash floods scenario desert and so with, but still only at the tires and Emerson in the jail tvs go through it stop
Easley. What do I get? The call on the radio that one of the jingle trucks have gotten stuck, and you know I can't see it it's so far. Back guy and your job in all? This is like an observer you're, not a charge of anything or non charge of anything, but it's weird because I ought rank everything here to me. So you kind of orange arch, moreover, the errand jargon in a way, yes, and so we stopped here waiting for the jingle truck to mess itself and then all the sudden it was like another I'm broke, and then the water hit right to our grills, like almost immediately oh it's a situation where you can't just get out of the car, and so we the little backstory we had killed Taliban members. Taken there I comes, and then we keep. This is on. The same operations is on previous worker. So
stories of the understanding we kept. I comes in the patrol and we put it on scan and when the Taliban started talking, we catch it on the scan than when handed to the term determine interpret it, and then we pass over the radio whatever was being set So when we were in a flash flood now we're like read about the water. It comes across radio like hey. The Taliban sees that we're stuck in the water and their maneuvering to ambush on us. Yes, now? You're not you're in a situation where it's like, I was your poison like us, machine guns are all hooked up to the trucks, but at a certain point you might drown. If you stay with the truck, you might drown just trying to get to the shore. So it's like what well. We all got up on the roofs of our trucks and the waters kept coming up. And finally, I was like I'm gonna die from drowning before I die getting shot with it.
Tom Atto lamenting the chances are. I slung my weapon, and I I was first with Japan I jumped in I swam ashore current was ribbon, but on the frigate swimmer I got over there and then I started making rope bridges so tied to move up to a tree through to the truck- and we start having guys shimmy and from the trucks over to the shore and so that we pass us down all the truck start doing it or what happened was one of the soldiers in the back got on a rope bridge and he, when he but the weight of him when he got in the water he panicked and he let go and he didn't like clip anything, and so he ripped down river. So then the call comes on the radio hey? We lost a soldier. He's t done, he's gone when the soon afterwards order, I'm assuming nor tonight American American American Soldier and the afghan. So he would, he floats downriver
one of the S S seat, the inner self seem to the Afghan national scary forces, so they all start talking about how they saw and he basically from our last vehicle they spot him flow by him. So we know he still written down the river right scenario in a situation where people struck it, not the trucks. We know that Bans maneuvering, we'll just lost this guy down the river. It's like ours is getting messy quick. This is a little beyond getting my. So we try to call in air support you're, getting a guy one of the river all the stuff and they deny it because it's raining and it's it's red aired. So they say no So I grab a bunch of guys in unlikely. For me, we're gonna go, do patrolling and try to find this guy in its it's weird, because I'm not really my guys so gonna like plate diplomat and they can. I have some of your guys to go do this, but I had good relationship I was able to do that, and then it gets even weirder. So then the Taliban past
for their radio that they had captured the american soldier. So we got. We picked up chatter, that the Taliban has the American soldier, and so they were like, maybe get a visit. The acronym was just one for like we had a dust, one situation so we call it over the radio and previously they said they wouldn't send aircraft. But this time now that if right there on the border, Paxton Wind turbines confirmed that they have one of our men do like we're. Sending sport, so they send a section of Apaches patches immediately and it was ass. I mean there is female sexually analysis in order to on the radio, and she must have killed like twenty days. Issues like stoical killed. Five secondary, spoken, arpeggio he's dead and like we were just watching her just like sweep this hillside, lay in waste and on elsewhere, End of the story. What happened was the soldier window fine and the next morning he
Stan River in he drowned and we ended up actually haven't. We thought he had been rigged with explosives, and so my you detect put his bomb suit and walked up to him in the river and cut him. Now too many footed floated downriver actually caught him and pulled him out and out of ever seeing on this on, but like their stomach expands and they get all these veins and what had happened. the Taliban, even though we were listened to them, they were monitoring that a UNICEF radios and wind as ever saw the soldier flow by got on their radios. The Taliban heard that and then they path We were listening to them past me, information to get an our loop. But you know life when our flight back on it, them doing that trigger? the Apaches which ultimately killed all of them, so it one of those situations that I mean, so U S we like? What did we do like theirs
Story of like yeah, you leave that what we're doing a resupply for a platoon fob and you just walk away from like tat- was a lot on packard, so did their water, eventually recede and goals were able to drive after that the next morning, went down and we were able to get all the vehicles actually brought from external sources. Some wreckers to help us post about but they've made us go up and down the river looking for the soldiers rifle and images which we worked out, fine, but we spent probably until lunchtime the next day, just walking through the water acting like we were going to find that I. Finally somebody made a decision to stop, get back on track and and what's the optimal like for you, So there's one mention that takes two days three days what you do and after that, so then you go back to the company fog, maybe spend a day Risa than you drive back to the time Bob
I'm all myself in the battalion, batter rhythm, the meetings. I continued offer advice, but everytime Rebecca the Battalion Bob, anywhere in the battalion. Battlespace were an id is found in my ear. Detex fly out there I would go with them. I mean I can just keep going for stories all day, but we we here's an example. In that same space, there was a helicopter that was flying a iso container of machine guns out to one of the outpost and it pickled it which means it. I don't know what happened, but they decided to drop the price of container the motor mounts so that I can we need you to go up there check. San Diego declares, might be explosives in it. So we fly up there. We get to the things see if we can riesling load, it be cancer that we're going to blow it up for like now, you can't blow it up. It's got machine gunned the stuff. You need a qoute all burnt like it doesn't matter he got carried out. So I was literally caring like two hundred and fifty Cal receivers like through the mountains
dinner is all unusable, but they didn't want to leave it there and we were supposed to fly out that night. So I didn't bring. This is such a stupid move. I didn't bring like warming layers or things for the next day and, of course, because it took us so long to carry all that stuff and it got dark and then the aircraft didn't want to land in the mountains. To spend the night up there and I almost froze to death? I remember the only thing we had was a body bag and I slept in the body bag spooning. Another man so that I wouldn't freezer turnout in your hand, Would you like in the body bag right as you're doing these operations. What are you oughta year? You know you you mentioned that earlier when your remark in your hand and out on you know thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars to various people and you're starting to think from us four digit perspective. This doesn't seem like maybe the greatest idea in the world when you got
forty vehicles go out to resupply forty soldiers out and out station somewhere the risks involved and now you lose a soldier, witches, freakin, horrible. and now you're going to a mountain top to recover, destroyed weapons. Cause you're not allowed a bold place. What what just what are your thoughts, this now you're how long you been enforced this point here yeah, so that was one thousand one hundred so seven hundred and sixty seven years, so you've got a little bit more maturity of it as a human and as a military officer Are you start? No wonder what the hell's Goin on absolutely unease Ellen, really good pleasure. There I think, would eat me the most when I took that forty vehicles so that forty amplitude I could see Pakistan, I could see their bases, I could see where they shot mortars at us from and we could do anything
So when you talk about strategic problems, they does America really want to win this war like I can see the fucking home base right over there. Why can't I? They kill them, and so I mean when I look back at the afghan war. Makin read my brain around that if I was gonna put service members lives at risk under do whatever it takes to win the war we're not gonna be there, but there was just a ton of things that we didn't do from a form. policy standpoint to allow the service members to win the war, its criminal, almost and so yeah standing there at the border, Pakistan, I'm looking at their home bases into second this crazy and then how long you this deployment is a one year deployment and in the middle of it you go home. You miss the birth of your son after first son, but you show what two three days but after is born.
and now you're going through this transition of one day. You're said they're waiting to get blown up by I d and the next and now you're sitting not looking at the new crib holding your son, and I agree. I know it's horrible disable, like the mindset of Wanting to be apart, that kind of, while you are still trying to work, I never you know the dinner in the Navy. We go on six month, maybe seven months, maybe eight month deployments and I never went home from one of em the of the army would send guys want because they beyond appointment. God bless him for twelve months. Fourteen months so Eighteen months, though it was mandatory that they would send guys home and even even like battalion. Commanders would go home for two weeks to give is break and give guys rest and let them see their families but you go home, it's it's two weeks at home I mean our
you able to adapt at all, or is it just? How much just send me back? I think. Maybe, if you're home life was consistent, there might be smooth Italian, it, but when my home life had changed so much like my wife couldn't even stay at her house cuz. She just had a kid. She was bedridden. She was at her mom's now there I am not able to take care of her she's having to have her mom. Take care of her. So I've got to put my two weeks: go stay at my mother in law's got a new kid. I mean I just it was like. I was living somebody else's life when I came home and again all you can think about is the constant combat you're gonna go back to, and it was just a lot. You're back over there and its maintain this September for the year that you're there, the two men Why, in the random operations. Tag along on random operations wise, I moved
In October or November Irish I moved out of eastern petticoat moved into a provenance called gascony nor the district called candour, and so we built a base from the ground up called and are far beyond our, and I moved to support one when eighty seven, so I went from three one, eighty, seven, the one one, eighty seven and back then so. This isn t a dozen ten. The polish had run that air for, like two or three years in the polish dont fire. Unless it's in self defense, don't do anything aggressively. So that's why they put Americans there. And so again we ve been at war for at eight years that in those almost like uncharted territory in the middle of Afghanistan in Gaza is like the economic centre. You know I'm maybe a set of Kabul and so Fer. You know sword. Romani we're like I went to see what we ve been it in remedy for six years and also an amusing baby wipes, and we have no infrastructure. That's like, like. We ve, never been there before. I felt this.
At the same thing happened with too far Bandar. They were built from the ground up and its even the the kinetic threat. It was like no one had done anything and that that area was different than the first one I described, because the first one is much more distributed. Energy, like these long day, patrols that one was very much like day in day out day in day out, like foot patrol from the base or right click It's too just that adjacent little block over there, and so so you were out. You actually move through that out station to that fog and how big is therefore how many people are. There was like a company. Father was a battalion its headquarters, but all their companies were in company outposts. I mean there's only probably two hundred people in it. A company there that they were utilizing for that ale. I was run and operations for them. As I understand the question, I think I think potentially one of the companies was in the battalion far because obviously somebody on that battle space, care remember and answer then you're there,
and you're doing the same thing: you're goin on patrols, whoever's gonna patrol trying to capture the idea, information centre that idea information back up the chain of command. Yes I'll call my stories to illustrate that kind of what I did. One time one of the companies found a house full of it. Looked like propane taxpayers, like aluminum tanks filled with powder sound like a hundred. I just didn't know it was so, through a mall in a well. Then they took a picture of it. Put her story board. Where does so the balloon down a patrol, yet they find a hundred aluminum tanks filled with random powder, yet they don't to do this and each of them in a well. That's exactly what I did. I not mistake and can then you know young captain sellers reviewing the story words I felt like it. That was the right thing to do again and have a boss so was like now is in general. Sports betimes really could have done nothing.
I chose to, but I every day with the story was with realistic acts went off stuff like was really trying myself, that's three right there like I could I do so bad look at what am I prefer graders, like ok tell them that we, so what you do, what wisdom and you hawk them all in the well and they were so ignorant they then took a picture of fundamentalist or what you say that you do Somethin Lilla raises an irony. Like I don't know, I should have done that. You don't included on this new wars it. So I put it in the story. It's one of those things were, I bet Upload Commander can articulate you know what we do know. What to do. We could carry out. We don't want the enemy to use them the well. Deep need to call sir. That's ok, Roger that I'm having fun this up the jailer demand, but I got your bag so it turns out it was aluminum powder, so in that area, so in the first one I was, I was up potassium core. It there's a match: factory, hemp and Pakistan to all the ideas were protesting Korea, but in this new EO, though, aluminium
powder with ammonium nitrate, so called that anal actually what they had in those containers was alumina powder, that they would mixed with the fertilizer to make ideas and so on Then, if I pulled patrol together. We went out we got into the house like I'm literally holding this powerpoint pronounced the scoreboard, it's gotta pick your house and it's gonna well in it in, unlike walkin around there's, no well on the way home sky, dark. What had happened as they the Taliban and come behind the soldiers and put like I would over the well and in covered it and dirt, the basically hide the aluminum powder that those soldiers had all thrown in there, and so it took me like forty five minutes. But finally, our signal now this is the house at this- has to be like. Here in the east are kicking so there we we ended up Disposal
all that, I'm so there's one example of like what is it kind of id team leader do their thing. I just caught that little thing I usually did was I walk the rails so as a tree guy, I would pull probably six or seven soldiers out of clearance and unknown routes. Where we found a lot, I guess the the time I got my brown star where we were walking down route, I'm on one side. There are another side and you could see guys messing with something the road proper, probably an idea right. So we know try to close a distance this guy. Runs away: circles around he's gettin chased by my other guys on industry, and so he crosses the street one run at the other side and lives like one of the century, like you, both come around a corner and you like face to face new book just like trying to get your guns and somehow you both miss each other for my three feet away in the Algarve, corner killer.
Four guys and some machine, no fire. When often one point we're like I just kept chasing people- and I found myself like two hundred metres away from even like the guys I was worth- maybe like no half kilometer away from the patrol. Unlike panic, start setting my gosh it like I'm separated here, I was able to re up and link up and they got some orders done ranch in the takeaway from the story is we uncovered seven ids on the route that day and render them all safe and we were trying to do buck's ambush rate with others ideas and we were able to push push him off but like there's an example of light, great tactical success, what the fuck did that do in terms of the overall picture, like I'm, not really sure like on a tactical level dinos,
With an awesome play that we ran, but he's got some examples of that now, then I started studying the operational strategic level, some of my words the the connection to what do their work where they still coming from Pakistan. What is my political leaders doing? What are we trying to get rid of the Taliban with laughter? Ok, a nice so make what so you wrap up that deployment. Yet you come home our common home now that you're homo. Yeah. So when I got from Afghanistan again I was gonna get out, but they are, For me, formal schools called exhibition warfare, schools, captain a major schools a year, and I just thought man. This deployment has taken a lot of me emotionally, spiritually, like a year in school, with a bunch of other war fighters of my peer Group party, really good for me rather than trying to jumper the corporate world, and so I took the Eu S shop
instead it get now which is in Quantico you, oh time after that, right right, lecture monster, polemic yeah, so they can to that is there's a two year requirement on the backside. So by taking the lead, U S job. I then was required to go serve two more years, the company. And this is gonna, get you out to war, how many years really if we were to occur to us, but yeah taken here a ten or eleven years, ten or eleven years, at which point a lot of guys say pay only got the drill. What is it you look at one only got eight more years, and really how many towards is that positive momentum that last towards a twilight tourists are really only have sixty is so people start negotiating and rationalizing Stayin, and even if maybe it's not on represent what they're into at the time the threat, which is is interesting as it you're almost the whole time you ve been saying: you're gonna get out, you're gonna get out, you're gonna get out, we're I'd. Never I
actually never thought it was ever going to get out until I got out the whole time. I thought I was staying in forever, I'm like I'm, going to do fifty years. Watch this and then it, was a very abrupt for me. You know when I was like. Well, you know what I'm actually gonna get out and So? I always thought I was gonna stay in, which is which was I guess it was very easy for my decision making process because ok, what do you guys know me to do we women who may go to Congo that whatever let's go but you're, always color. I think it wasn't like. We started with a beginning story this I never had ambitions to go in the military, and this was never what I thought. I would end up doing the reason I can t need to stay and is because I found a lot of purpose and being a marine officer and a truly enjoyed. It truly enjoyed being around the service members. So it's one of those things were. I guess my self image was never to be a career military officer, but I continued doing it because I found
fulfilment, and yet there there's also something beneficial about someone: that's not considering that all I wanna be yachts. I was joke about the seal teams, cousin the ceilings. If you ask a seal officer, a young seal off sir. Why, They came in the seal teams. They what what what? What what job you want to do? I get anti. What they're gonna say is only a particular. I wanna be a soup to grant it. That's the that's. Which, by the way, is like three years into your career. You an army officer white, they want to do a lot more say. Oh, I want to be a battalion commander. I wanted brigade commander. I want to be a division. Printer, that's actually in their head seal officers, do not have that in their head, mostly offers don't than in their head and there's something that's kind of nice about someone? It's in the army that just as hey you know, I want to be I want. I don't have this big aspirations of being a general or they just want to go and do the job. There's somebody
Let's do it. There's also summed attractions do because once guys, the seal teams get done without partook mandatory alot of go again. did that and we in this house try to extend the operational tourism. The longer you know you can, you can extend, you can go a little bit longer and still do work. but eventually it's gonna drive. For you and you don't get to be a battalion commander. Leave us you'll, teen commander, but that's not the same as a battalion commanders really not same as a brigade commander, cool jobs, but not what people come in for so the fact that you are sort of all They can maybe I'll get out means to me in a positive way. You try to maneuver for your career cause, there's a lot of guys. It oh yeah hears I need to do this bill, I'm trying to get this award I'm trying to get this deployment, so I can get promoted. There's some people that that's what's driving their careers and its it's never its whore will the turrible to see what they do and there's guisando. Certainly
guys. The seal teams are like that. That's their that did have the goal of of the two committees just a step, just a stepping stone They really want to do as they really want to make out more or whatever same thing can happen in the army as well since taken up in the marine corps, but few you're gonna, like playing a by which means you're not making decisions based on hey. I'm gonna look out for my career, which is a good thing. in many cases, gather. I see that Marsoc to what you're probably describe with guys doing what they want to do. Cuz. I don't got marsoc guys want to be a team leader want to be a company commander commander the pinnacle, where they didn't believe her father talent, because the company commander and Marsoc is a major and then they don't stick around to be the battalion commanders that they need them to do. But I also see you then General Infantry, a lot of the counter to what you just said. There's a lot of guys that come in that have aspirations for being tank man
have aspirations for being in general and the new economy alluded to it. There may be some positive to that in terms of big thinking and in speaking, good about the system and figure out how to navigate the system correctly, but I honestly think the focus should always be on this Airbus, member and what's best for them, and I understand, as a leader of been doing for seventeen years, the responsibility to organization versa, responsibility to this, whose members are not saying in all respects a leader, or we should just be looking out for the service number, but I think when you get focused on how to navigate your crew, it does cloud your perspective on how to strike that balance. So none the less you take the deal and you go. Okay, I'm going to go expeditionary, warfare, school and then I'm going to owe them two more years. So that's going to put you at eleven years, twelve years your probably like call at least this
I might be gone a lot, but at least you got a job in its we're gonna paycheck am I so much sooner. They got back from Afghanistan. She got pregnant, sang kid, so much shorter boys of fourteen have months apart. That's like yeah before Afghanistan than my first time getting home from Afghanistan, and then it was like I saw, could vary, quickly within nine months. Behalf in Afghanistan went from like no constitution and also as a lifeless changes in the way we waited and a couple years had my thoughts on in between my next to deployment so How is expeditionary, warfare, school, alighted, Now the anxiety that I had ever body came back full fledged after Afghanistan started having different symptoms are, haven't my face, numbness, whom I met my view. Started getting blurred and everyone wants a limp it into PTSD, which I knew it. It was a struggling pcs yet, and I like bad dreams, I don't feel bad about anything. I did. I said tony soprano wish like real physical symptoms.
Anna, just people, then the Buzz phrases PTSD, and I don't think you understand that anxiety was when I try to work through that? Until I I really understand what what you're talking about so Ptsd would be like. Oh I'm, trouble sleeping. I'm will hyper alert. No matter what what's the anxiety peace, what's what's goin over this.
and is it no, it is illogical its both, so it part hereditary its part, nurture nature so also in part experience. So I think the simplest way, as you said, is once your fighter flight gets burnt enough. Your brain starts producing different chemicals that it may not be if you're, not honoured, high stress all the time and for me it just took a while to recalibrate I had to get into yoga had to get into meditation. I do know the best remedies workin out, so being worked out. Stay healthy, stay fit for the problem is not a guy's. After these deployments fond of the false trap of like alcohol and alcohol is who sings where you know it can suppress them those anxiety or things for a little bit, but they don't realize it comes back. Twice has forced the next day and so either of you as one of those like false hopes for me or I was like coming back, I hadn't been drinking for a year and I was like drinking beer and onion. at night and the next day about our white paper,
I was also getting older to run in the thirties. Now, not my twenty anymore, and so every part of it just learning my body learning all the physical reactions that took place in unemployment and not allowing myself to just be banned in a PTSD category. That may not apply to me, even though that's what I think everyone was to label someone when they get back from something what I had gone through and you and I worked out- I figured it out, but he took me bring a lot of books talking a lot of people, probably more than I needed here tonight. Let me ask you this serve. Get these like anxiety, type situation. caused from some trauma situation that you ve been through, and now this is post the traumatic situation. Isn't it like what you're talking about what I don't understand it green PTSD and what you're talking about anxiety? I think the
the where it way I distinguish it is PTSD from what I've learned from the psychologist typically manifests itself in two, guilt, shame, emotional, struggling with some of the things that you went through that may have psychological and physical impact on you anxiety to me. Think of it like you're, about to do public speaking Everyone has butterflies but like a severe case of anxieties almost like debilitating right and that those fears manifestations, Meda, I said I'd be tied to a trauma they may just be tied to the way, like you said, physiologically are built or made b, because you have experienced so many things that your brain is producing chemicals and balanced manner. Now, I'm not a doctor somebody needs to check the stats on this. But I can tell you, having talked of many psychologists, there is a in the
whatever. That manual is a major differences between the two and then you as your workin out and you're doing yoga, and you start to give that the deck come after you through the drinking phase of trying to get through it. I always worked out sometimes worked out and drank, so how does it do drink in vague arranges focus our work it out, and this is all happening while you're at it- w S inaccurate, Learn anything go to eat up EU us when you run it Eddie WS either you ass a little bit more like operational level. I love tat. I went to two former schools. All I want to commend staff letters made my staff is very varsity level, treat you like adults, cures or the reading. I read it and we'll talk about it like I was adult either the. U S is somewhere between you're still like in the basic training pipeline in Europe that getting close to an adult, but we're not really sure he had so it's
your treated as such, and there are a bunch of captains at our cursed. Yet the probably need to be treated like that, but I think it's generalised who must have. The times rose like I'm, a professional unbending, multiple wars, like don't fuckin, talk to me like that, What's he doing ass, it stands for expeditionary. Were it's like the cap into major pm me so so you don't have to grow the resident, but you have to do the school. So there's a box of books reading it sent the books and for that way, there's seminars we can go to like night school for it to every captain has to go through it to become a major, but they select the top ones to go to the resident one year course. That's it that's where you got selected for us, so your crews going pretty good at this point. Actually it was an indicator that I was on the right track, and what what do they say one year school? Where are you at the end of that where'd you go into that. I went to third, the tie and Second Marines. As a company commander ourselves, a headquarters company commander where we are dependent was
Another mule is ten months get on ships. Sailor emotion and be ready to respond and as a whole company commander on a meal I had, I have a very competent had an engineer and then I had like all the supporting the battalion was just kind of is carbon eclectic group of individuals and then they also use me as like the future operations plant or if you are so as the those on the ship did send Munich, Egypt or they'd, send me to wherever there is a planning for what a bilateral lies, so that was my maternal deployment of those are ten months yeah. I was long shipboard department right after the two thing, and the Benghazi dying and like the and because of that thing the mute deployments had gotten like backed up something happened that messed up the deployment cycle because of that operation and soda like fill the gap? Might a planet was ten months because they always want overlap, and so I don't remember, Parfois
understand why it happened, but they told from the very beginning like this can be a long one and that was a shipboard to plug. So you live on a ship which is good times but that's where it s almost like for me, because I came in before the war that that's like up normal deployment that we'd better did back down to two deployments with the Marines on the arts on out here on the West Coast, but who's pay. sail around, go to wherever we're goin like I went to Egypt, I went to Oman, went to these various random places. An did whatever exercise we're doing people get spot up about whatever their again spot up about you, probably Did you create any powerpoint? Briefs worry on that enough? I did it all right. So that's another deployment and what what comes after that? So then I get back,
actually, I was still a captain and they try to make me the operations officer and I did the battalion operation Russian. So I had actually gotten the top company commander finnish report as the hecklers comic marriage, gonna rare. So to speak to my betake made. A really like me thought give me until we try to make me the operations officer, and I wasn't selected that you're, so I was going to be in town the next year and regiments like brother. We got like five major sitting on the deck up here that need key bill. It like, if you're, going to make the captain the science liked it up,
to give you a major, and so he came back to me in a case like this is what happened so you're not gonna beat up so what're, you gonna do do you want to stay in the battalion and you ve already done your company commander to her or do you want to go somewhere else and in my community headquarters, company commanders like one of those weird ones where you can hide somebody there and so is not always the best sky and so like in terms of ST credit, my community, I didn't want people to think I was just a headquarters. Nobody can write and says: I'm not gonna. Now I'm gonna stay here and I'm gonna go be the weapons governing their sovereignty. Weapons come
which is like the probably the best company commander, usually in battalions at sunset. I did so. I was out of his coming commander finish here and have did you do to parliament has no, I did so. We did a deployment caught a unit, a planet programme, so we went to open our and the purpose of strategically is to be involved in the war plan. If North Korea were to be do somethin, but all we really do is try to prevent our marine from getting drunk in getting an fights and then all taken into me up going to Tokyo. We went in the South Korea deadline and that's a six month born in six months what number two point it was after the event, including on one of us was one year upon year one was a year was ten abroad model seven then the first me with six and the U Depew six. It all comes out to demean before you our supper, after that, what's next now much gratitude to those two planets like that was middle of fifteen. Then I got them
the major and I never to police took, whereas the all of that when it was through my captain time, which is what made crazier. So I got promoted the major and the monitor at the time was actually the company commander of my platoon commander body, who get blown up. Romani guys name was AIR Clark, and I know well, and so we have a special relationship and he had selected me for a place called p p, announcing plans, policies and orders in the marine corps. It's a very prestigious bullets like one of those boats that if you do well, you go and be a general sir. So if your guy, that is plain keep game like you described like that's the job you want, then I at this point I had decided it was going to be a career. So after thirty two I was like this is I'm going to go to twenty and I just had no desire to sit in a basement cubicle and the Pentagon and new design, a new helmet or whatever I was gonna, do right. I just I couldn't do it.
And like you said earlier, like I love teaching and I loved idealistic young officer, so I asked him if I could go to the basic school and he obliged because he had a lot of people that to do piano. So he cut me off This is going it as I tell a story, but I knew him cause. It's not use you that easy. They just talked your modern say no. I don't want that once this and have it worked out, but in that situation it did, and so he got me understood the basic school and I got back from the udp in July 15th and then I off cycle moved in October fifteen and I bring that up just to say my kids and I have three kids at this point. They're the two older ones are in school and I didn't want to pull them out of school. So I actually go batched this again more more distance right to get back in that appointment and then I went and was living in a condo in DC and driving back to know,
Carolina on the weekends for nine months until the following someone, a move them up, arts or the basic school this time, you're. On the other side, watching people go through their good to me, that sounds like a good learning experience, seeing people how they react. from a leadership perspective and from a psychological perspective through its great, the basic school is all taught by officer. So, unlike school, every tree, where the instructors presently enlisted at the basic school, the primary structure is off So even as a major they sent me the through a pretty good training regimen and I had to get qualified into train every single thing. So its idea of different qualification for each subject that you attempt to teach and so the do a really good job there. I got to be the operations officer Accompany Commander in the war fighting director operations Officer in war footing, director typically territorial billets, but I just got the opportunity because at that time
They did have a lieutenant colonel's and they chose me to fill both those bills. Two different times of my three or to others. I mean I really gotta a great run out of that and matter. kind of like focus on this. You haven't really brought it up a little bit, but just a kind of because, where this story ends up here, your career like going really well at this point, ya mean, as you mentioned, you are the number one platoon commander. I didn't should it as the weapons coming to commander. I got submitted for the left, which award wishes best company commander in the Marine corps and didn't when obviously, but just to have my botanic manner. Smite me up through the regiment vision, for that was honor and then yeah the basic school like the moderate or try to submit a piano and gave me that's what I wanted to basis cool and when I got to the basic school they made me the op. So. Brand new major which ignore me Lieutenant Colonel Spilett, and then I did a company.
manner to her, and then there was a new ceo and New CEO hand shows me to be the wharf writing director and so yeah. I mean I think I was very competitive. Now Your fit reps look a mark. This whole problem, all top I mean if we must get forward that the judge in my case is like I've never seen a record, so example are exemplary and also high marked, so there's an impartial god. Oh god, I'm a report like this is the best have ever seen so, but you gotta keep mind like I said earlier at the basis for the best captains went to TB us or went icy. When I was a tv s, I was a major, the best majors and always go to tv S. Best. Captains do so with a little off track and went out bid through it is coming out a remedy number one. I didn't have any one that used to be in the military. There's a lot of you, or in a military. Today they nepotism is, is prevalent like a general sons or Please a regimental father and they didn't get a free pass, but they understand the key billets that they need to go to
and they understand the relationships that need to be harnessed, and in and developed and so these small advantages in the beginning turn into bigger advantages over time. So I guess my point is when I went to school of every tree is a young captain that didn't help me at all as a profession and probably even going to Afghanistan on an eye billet where I didn't get a report from a marine didn't help me at all in terms of career progression, like that whole three years, where it was very important to probably separate yourself. I just didn't do it, but going into my three to company commander time, because all those experiences I had it made me a very effective leader. I was able to really shine is accompanied commander and those reports are really what stood me got me sternness up
from the pack and then as a major at the basic school again same thing. So in those six years it was like, I think, that's when people started look at my records and who's this guy, but I think most of my other peer said nurse, a lot of peers that I have that her. I will admit much better than me being smarter than me more talented, and so I look at some of these to my peers and I'm just always impressed, and I just always few don't want to inspire to be like somebody's guys, but some of those guys were put on tracks early, can hand selected for things early that I just don't think anyone about me until later in my career, probably similar stories to acquiesce in tv S right, I sure hope one day one and I'm lost in by the and people like what would this guy, maybe he's not so we thought it was. I think my career is almost the same stuff so you you get on with being the basic school instructor and then it's off to them. Then design when you can went to command staff college. Yet here and
So now you're in it to win it. He was, I gotta, be squaws it so. went to command staff cuts looked for school where those nice, because area up in Quantico is it hard to get selected for school is not it. two things, one you gotta be competitive, so probably in the top forty percent much release and that much but tough workers, and then you have to be the time hasn't, has right. So there's a couple factors approach, not always the best. Sometimes spot timing And how long is this? How are you go therefore, classed as a year, a solid year and as this again now you're gonna go time, but you don't care at this point. You raised right, you're, doing a career at your wife's on board with tuna career, for she loves the stability. Should you lookin at retirement? She's equity for a wife she herself than anywhere else. She amid a kid you're all in school now, so my youngest is now preschool three kids school. They're, still young enough, that we want some stability and my
goal actually was to go back to Lejeune. To when I was there a cat I had bought a fifty acre piece of timberland that I've got four and stuff that I keep on it and then we still on my house and Jacksonville so I had to property still North Carolina when we were up and you goal after Commandest staff to get back to North Carolina just remain there to retirement, and so those kind of my play Now, some of the. Some of the more conflicted thoughts you had when you were in Romania. when you are in Afghanistan, are those are? Are you? Are you kind of is doing those as in like hey that's weight is sometimes you know. I can do a good job. I can try and mitigate that stuff in the future when you, commanded staff college in your talking about now, more senior level, strategic level things Are you having. Considerations round? Most things? Are you haven't discussions around those things you feel like you, ve sorted
accepted that that's the way the system works and there's some benefits to it in their some negative steward, and you can ask. Get more senior. You can focus more on the benefits where you have mentally yes, great caution, so at command staff. You can do a masters, it's part of the cricket. Now when I went there was a student, it was like an option. You didn't have to do it because it required extra classes and a thesis to write on her own times as some people. just one of the downtime chose not to do it, but I wanted the masters I wanna do challenge myself and most instructors there, I implore almost like they drive you towards writing something about like the tactical level small squad unit level like insightful novel idea. I wanted to write about foreign diplomacy, how is broken and I have been working on the small technical level, the basics for three years- I was the wharf
director for the your previous, like they're, probably no one more qualified to write some type of these twenty page paper easily on how to do that, but it just it didn't interest me, and so I will I was reaching for foreign diplomacy in my my instruct. My Phds told me like every year there somebody that comes in here and talk about how the cold water Zack. That needs to be revamped. It just the same often you my counter. That was what hasn't fuckin been text. Yet has it in that probably nothing more important when we're still losing wars and so Despite all the push back on it, I wrote it was right. Twenty pages in the parameters of the paper were a minimum of twenty papers. No more than eighty pages, so I wrote sixty five pages like I just can't stop writing and I gave it to my instructors and they just handed it back to me like a meeting, and I sixty five pages- I'm not going to read this-
You guys assign eighty pages, and I have read eighty pages and I I just spent months writing this and you can even give me the time to say these parts of your paper dont- add value that you won't even like red. It does make it less So that's what I was up against those like. I felt like as officer. I wanted to be challenged academically and I just didn't give the Phds, so I did I made it. Thirty pages got my masters check in the box, and nobody ever read the paper again Did you learn any good information campaign? Is that count was helpful earlier? I do think the molecular sane- commands technology is their value in a hundred percent. The real question is: could it be better and yeah? It absolutely could be better, but there is always easier to find ways for it to be better
think from like thirty years ago. What they have now is a world better than what we used to have liked to have small groups. They facilitate good discussions. They really cheap, my thinking on the wars, and then we went back to life Frederick the great I pressure all the way through Napoleon and civil war in modern day. I think they did a really good job, but they didn't go to deep on it anything and they challenge Man like a Henry Kissinger's booked up, Missy. I had never open it up and they really put a lot of their that challenged me and I'm a reply. Levin realism and I don't take american foreign diplomacy- is really gotten to that level and spin like export a little bit. But again they just exposed me to a lot. I think it's really incumbent upon the student that wants their exposed to something to been really get the education on their own and it takes independence to be able to do that. If you just go through the What the school ask you'll get very little out of it was any
paradigm shifts in your fought. While you were there no my problem in an education system is, I always start to get a little frustrated because there's a system to the education system and they ve figured out about me I'd like to challenge and a certain point people don't want to hear it should become a pain in the ass. A line that its different for every person every boss, I've ever had says I went on a seed back what for What does that mean? You, like, I guess I'll find out to try and air of giving you honest feedback, and there should be a certain point where I can either. through your face through your emotion or what you're saying to me that I've got far and now I'm starting to annoy you, then that's when you know you got it back off, and so I always find myself in the small group discussion like I can dominate any conversation with my opinions, but there's a time you got read the room understand you need to be a passive listener, and so Thankfully my struggle with it, I just felt eczema. My views, webcam
to what they were trying to teach and if I was to get to aggressive with it soon to be counterproductive, vice discussed and so a law that has to do with counter the outstanding. Is it either be less like I just the way you win the way you fight a counter Are we fighting? This urgency is to not get involved in an insurgency, and that requires deeper thought on operational strategic levels and we just celebrated his generals, the last twenty years that have wrote the small wars manual or reinvented the small World wars Manual, counters Emanuel's and there's a time and place where we is military. Tacticians need to understand how to do it. Absolutely Harper Centigrade read all the books got it, but it just continue to engage them for multiple decades without like real metrics of effectiveness or exit strategies. Afghanistan withdrawals just a perfect example, and it couldn't be a better historical example of how that
was just terribly executed and it just a symptom of a much larger problem, and so what these opinions. I had in command staff solidified through my paper. I left there. I told the story about me hand in the paper to the pieces as just another example like no one really cared they were there to expose you two things if there are exposed to, but they didn't look like first do Schiller was academically and say: how do we get Stew Schiller individually to be? were challenged and developed to where we need him to be, and maybe they don't have a ban with the do it. But if you look at the great, cereal mines of history like consulates he had a guy named Sharon Horst there was a Terry Professional, that sat there and she knew where Kosovo was met, him there and then challenged him specifically, and I just I sometimes wish I had that. so you wrap up that's cool and then, where you off to and then
so I told a story. If I weren't you back North Carolina ass, I told my minded differ: are now don't have but this guy, and so I see them on to road shows which is like yearly the miners around and you get to shape to your shape, what your desires or can be. When your mover, it's only two previous our north, I don't care No one really wants camp Lejeune. So usually, when you say Camp Lejeune, so I can park right, got it but United spent my whole time and camp Lejeune and Quantico. I've never been out to the West Coast or anywhere else, And so I knew there was a chance that marine start say say brother, you be the homestead too long. So then, I saw near before same thing, and so he said I ll tell you what to do. If it's not North Carolina I'll call you, and keep in mind, I didn't do my Apso bill. It fits my story. I told him as a major you got to do is call key billet and fern temperature outside that's ops or exo. becoming a command staff. There, like you, have to be an exercise to remain competitive, and so I mean everybody got orders.
Like January February March and when I got to like the inn, marge we're Talkin, like you're gonna, move in June, assigning talk to the sky like all the school registration is. Unlike January my wife, Ask me every day, I'm like you, I don't tell you pay, I dont so Colleagues, I knew this guy's real busy, but violence broke down and I call nuts I came in in March, everyone in my commandest outclasses. except for me told me. You would call me if it wasn't campesinos I'm assuming I'm still going to. Can you confirm and he He's like no cabbages filled piece of good news. We have availability and twenty pounds or San Diego and I'll. Let you pay so I got off the phone with them. I am I manoeuvres. Agora was upset. Para analysis. writing my master's thesis at the time. So I was like I used to go to Panera just right, and so I'm sitting Panera just mad and-
about all of property. I got North Carolina and how, like I've been tell my wife would be no account for two years now, so. I wrote him an email emails or the easy for me to it not be as emotional second can, edit it, and I wrote But I want to put in writing off of came in and putting this in writing for you, I'm going to for gokey billet there's got to be a sexual assault officer or some other thing in North Carolina that you can give me it's in writing, make it happen and I have said and like you yet understand, like help husky areas to do some like that, because I got, I essentially said my crew. over here in the pen era. But I want what you're a lotta, and so they call me that This is what he said. He said I got your email, I'm gonna, get you exactly what you want and then I thought up by John, I was like a man. I see, I'm gonna be the sexual assault. Answers secondary innovation like this is endemic,
to go back and look at all my peers and they're all talk about where they're going to be botanic says, retain officers or wherever it amount to tell him what crap job I just got because of what it did to myself and nobody did then cause a manner as to responsibilities. He's got a responsibility to the marine corps, is responsible use person and the job responsible and recourse to keep competitive officers competitive. So then he went. He didn't know me from Adam. So after that he went through my record and as he was going through. My record, you probably came to the realization like shit, this guy's pretty good. If I bury him in a staff job in second marine division. Didn't I ended and he had a responsibility to keep me competitive, but he also knew that I had like dug my heels in, and I wasn't going to California without, like probably no scream at table mountain, so I can no one situation and so that's I ended up at Marsoc, so he wasn't
advertising a morsel support, battalion exile and he had that kind of hidden on the shelf, and so he called me back and he's a K. I've got a morsel support, botanic, so there actually asking for infantry officers. I haven't made it book, not really key, but maybe it is kinda cause it still battalion Exo. Just now effort, Ruby, tiny. That would you be interested in that Fucking North Carolina, Marseille for This all worked out. Thank you, you know, and so that our how it happened. So I took second Marines, immoral, be marine rate or support battalion, so it was called and said. The way it works is more sucks got three battalions, and then they have three support. Betimes sport battalions have their logistics, common intolerance and they basically just do a six month. Work up just in the Emirates, be, and then they aggregate them to the MRI be unit, and then they do six more months and then
a full year of training and then they deploys that aggregate team- and I was the excess all I did- was facilitate the teams on their time, but I was only there for a year, so went on a sound. I saw like one full cycle and in other cycles in state of growing department or no, So, while I was there because they have three battalion commanders they actually the betancur manage. This perpetrators are actually batched, Marseille, guys, and so they have. In that sense, they have six battalion commander Summer Stock has at any time come six what did the and so the soda downrange they have a cycle of when those guys, but on their in control command that unit they. Actually, while I was the extra took my betake manner to be in charge of the surf, so he doesn't apply with the time and he lay deploys with like me.
Five key guys and then some other people from across the regiment until I was essentially the battalion commander fur majority. The time was by this, but I never deployed so I just set therein courthouse bag with my battalion, but I am, but I was acting and is really good. Time are already we ll enjoyed it and why that below me a year because I got cited lieutenant The question I would state of Marseilles until they until I retired, to be quite honest with you, but I got selected to attend a colonel and I actually went to the map Armenia's acting ceiling and in the manpower, meaning the saga her from the horses mouth like we don't have were filled up with Lieutenant Colonel are badge like we can accept any non badge, lieutenant colonel. So you got to go
So I was your wife during that year was everything going cooler, yeah new she's gonna Stoke she's, a nor airline, its advice? We had a very sweet spot, then you must go back to North Carolina. We were in her house. It was familiar Tori I was happy, with my job in Marseille, kids are in school now, especially as a little bit of like profanity yeah, it was good. Things will go on home phone. At that point, I told them what happens when you make lieutenant colonel? Where did this, and you saw me- and I knew I got I found out- I got slighted, unlike October's I'd only about more socks, like three months, like within three months, had taken a job I was looking for. The next job and so I had some bodies that were up in division secondary and vision, which is still local it. So I basically started, but now feelers knows I came at the move. I'll take a staff job up their got my exo job being the exo at a more socks work times. I don't need keyboard anymore. I don't think so. If you could
If you guys could take me, I'd appreciate it and then I finished the year at and that in that sprang the chief, of staff of MAR socks or an o six talk to the chief of staff of the division, whose no six, which have a staff both of those gentlemen, are generals now, actually and between that conversation they decided to make me those six Marines up. So I don't know how that shook out. I don't know if it was because they just thought I was a talented or because I hadn't done key Billiton, the tree battalion that they wanted to give me the regimental up so to make me more authoritarian, that's right, but either way I was having pretty important job, two regiments and the division and should be that the operations officer of one of them was a big deal so that I did that for the next year before I suggested Betancur man, and they will have more to your appetite mount soda, If the Baton Command shortly get into the regiment, ops job so, but the region,
also job just a picture gone into the story about to tell a meaningless that Marseille job is awesome, fulfilling manageable up hours, good work, the regimental op. Sir John was like twenty our days, we spent two months at an eye tax which is now Mojave Desert, where it is just expected that, like I don't eat, I have tobacco and I just drink energy drinks. It's almost like I'm looked down upon it. That's not how I conduct myself in it It took a lot of me and my boss was not very appreciate have most of the time and I got in the sun like this is cow at the point. career, where I started really pushing back. So I guess first lieutenant as a- so in Almaty. What my commander manner was can, verbally and even at times physically abusively Scott took it and in my head was like this is wrong. But as a regiment, also as a forty year old man, if you
Tellin me like I'm gonna to I'm gonna put, he say. I'm going to fucking fillet. You I'm going to fucking cut you in half, that's what I'm like bitch fucking come bring. It will fuck you going to do now. These are the conversation we would have as in its like injurious right, because and I had this with multiple sixes like I don't know what it is about- regimental commanders, but they they just felt like they, talk to me like, like. I was a piece of shit and I got to a place in my life and my career. I just be talked like that, and so it we did this unhealthy tension and then, when I would, push back on some of these conversations. You would think that, after like a couple days, it would actually be like a stimulus, but it almost like It almost was seen as a threat ever almost Greece to pressure were then they would come back and one alike reassert dominance, which would then one
Cause me to leg, reassert bike, fuck you and it just became unhealthy. Everyone could see it in he's got understand that, like that's what I came out of after a year of just being overworked, took like almost like fist fighting a couple times and the going into my tank Battersea, Sir, you here: you're having clashes with regimental command idea and. As this is happening, are you thinking yourself like alright? Maybe I need to maneuver a little bit here. You know I spent a bunch of time at expeditionary, warfare, school learning, about maneuver warfare and not to attack. You know harden positions had on, and here I am engaging in verbal battles with my boss,. do you ever think like well. Maybe I should take a different act. So
Will you have certain people a certain expectations, so you can just not, back and try and do an artful way, but that type of person is still going to expect you to work twenty two hour days and beyond appreciative when you do get the bust, your ass, to get the product to them and then the follow up question what you finally get that product is worth next broad And so some times you get a boss that just no matter what you do with her soft diplomacy or whether its verbal fighting back you're, just not gonna, possibly change that person. So the point you're making as a picture battles and be smart. But the point I am making is at a certain point in my life I just refuse to be talked to a certain way and so was that good for my career was could for my mental health pado now but like I just I cut us, but a fighter who I was what I was capable of and how I was gonna- be treated now
the bottom line, and I certain values that I wasn't a compromise and I care. What about my career when I get a couple stories were like. I basically try to throw my crew array a couple times this is important me. I guess Important to me- and you know, you can think about what you want, but when I think so, in his right, like I just dont back away from what kind of thing you put your cause, you know draw a line in the sand on in terms of like regimental, commander recycling. Oh, I d, I'm done with this. There was. One time she's, in time it I t, x and so of culminating event nor in the service for the marine corps at I, Texas called MW ex move or for excise and one regiment gets two battalions and then one, but I and given hyper, enable capabilities. It's free force on force. Now it's supposed to be free, but there's a lot of rules that almost drive the skipper, maneuver
I mean it's the closest thing we get in terms of like eyes, a regiment officer with to retire with ellie- are with artillery and with a whole exercise force it determines who got killed and who done it to build a plan, but it's also like ice. Dress, and so most of our c c was back in the rear where I thought the better. The regiment manner should ban, but old generals and colonels think that they need to lead from the front and in so actually probably put a lot more risk on the system and they're not comfortable sitting back. and ass you see that has probably the capabilities that we need, and so what that caused was him coming out with Ford capability that I had And in signature management, when you're trying to like not turn on certain things or turn them all in a systematic way that disguises you're digital footprint. He and I were sitting in this tiny little seals
that I made out of the back of a trailer. It was just one of those situations where I got like six computers, I'm typing on all of them. I'm trying to control the tylenol to his differently, our platoons I'm trying to worry about my signature management and he's yelling at me to do something and I'm like quickly answering him while trying to do all these different things, and there was just like one situation where he snapped started you mean for everyone, and I looked at him And that was a situation like your time. I'm even warfare, I didn't say anything I just walked out just like I'm we're going to fight so I walked out. I took twenty minutes and I came back and then he like, he also like. Maybe if you just chill and get some sleep now is his way of saying like maybe he went too far like trying to offer me some sleep, and course I'm stubborn, and I know I don't Define- and I got talk to some of my guys actually did it in front of everyone and Komegashi like I can't believe you didn't hit him like. I can't believe you had the balls to just walk away like I would have done that
so there were times, but I guess it is giving those examples goes like man, just your exhausting me, so it it is so you're in that job as regimental opt for operations officer when the Afghanistan Afghanistan where job was done? Is I write? yeah. So Another relevant pieces story is eighth, We used to have three regiments, the division and ate the Marines dissolved, and so one eight actually got aggregated industry. Brains. So I was already regiment. Obsolete, took one eight re, aggregated them and then maybe They had all the supplies that they needed to go out on the planet, so I was working with their upso next week on the daily and so on. Very familiar with that unit, the God of the media that ultimately responded to the Kabul Incident, and so that's part of a right one. with my first union. If you remember my best friend, I heard the suicide thus and then, when I was in my
regimented eyes that eyes kind of man trained and equipped as much as a higher headquarters to send the mountain that a planet. And then I was selected to Betancur man. So in June, when overdose school between took advanced, if it retraining battalion I was in MID June in August. Twenty sixth is one NEA S. First attack occurred, so junior going to school, you went to school night. I commanded a battalion, those at a school, so called audit Advanced Africa training battalion and so that's stood I swear if you wanna go to sniper school to go to later school? If you wanna go through advanced mortar school, all the advanced infantry schools are housed under that instructor cadre of the battalion that I commanded. All right so to get in Afghanistan a little bit. Does it get while not get into a little bit but to put him context around it February, twenty twenty trump it's a conditional deal with the Taliban that were to withdraw
September, twenty twenty the afghan government? The Taliban hold talks in Doha. The talks breakdown Do not make any progress, but America still continues this. withdraw plan for where twenty twenty one you ass, an afghan government officials worn. Everyone that the Taliban is not abiding with agreements there, their due in office. If things are making maneuvers, four Fourteenth Biden changes, though, withdraw deadline. from my first two September: eleventh witches Let's face it. You don't pick the date September temper Eleventh out of a hat there, so you know some kind of a symbolic gesture that that The B administrated administration wanted, which is Hey September, eleventh, is things over. April fifteenth.
The Taliban says up you guys reneged on what you said you were gonna do setting about by May now, you're saints September working. a counter measures may the Taliban stars doing exactly what they said. They start increasing attacks increase. in scale their tax increasing in frequency, their attacks sixth U S, contractors begin pulling out and when you our contractors, now the afghan forces- and this is where you really start to see someone problems that are gonna works in you pull out these american contractors that take care gear, and supply replacement gear All this I know, that's gone. And this includes you know, vehicles planes aircraft, drones helicopters, everything that they ve got all the sudden they dont have the passively or the know, how to keep it. To keep the running.
July First Erica closes Burger airfield like in a really kind of weird way of just leaving just just kind of up and left without telling on didn't mean, tell the afghan that that was going happen, the afghan that was gonna happen. Just did it. And by the way backroom boardroom is, is a great logistics hub. It's a big massive airfield too well supplied well supported. How long has it been there for twenty years? You know of nineteen years, some incredible amount of time, so it's in a relatively secure area, fully functional and he just kind of leave. It. July eight Biden says, he's confident the ability of the afghan military too. Ward off, did the Taliban, Fight the Taliban and defeat the Taliban July, twenty third, the Taliban starts applying pressure,
Present Ghani. Is now just asking, but also. The begging? For? U S, assistance. there's a conversation that. Biden had with Johnny did he He says of them nail the quote, but he saying that the perception is in the world that things are going well and Bind says: hey whether it's gone well or not. We need pretty. The different picture. August sixth Taliban takes For control of their first province, and now this is indirect violation of what they said. They would do in the deal with America. August, fifteenth taliban- takes control a bargain resistance. They just walk in their day There is a prison there if they free a bunch of these highly prisoners from various die afghan government and anti american forces.
They also enter couple that day present gone Please else out, apparently with a bunch of money, and I will never get over the irony of the fact that President Ganny was this kind of academic individual that had written a book called fixing failed states, a framework for rebuilding a fractured world. And in that book He uses examples like Oregon. Eight of organ in America, a first world country at that We talked about using examples of how do how to fix failed states. August, sixteenth Biden comes on and says you happy. Well, you know the Daphne motors fallen apart, as are cowards and their political leaders, are we weak August. Seventeenth, Al governments complaining about Lack of communication,
coordination from America, so they start their own rescue missions and we're hearing a lot about that August. Twenty third, the director of the CIA,. William Burns meets with the Taliban leader, border to discuss the evacuation. We're trying to sort out. Save what we can pieced together some kind of extraction plan. that's on August, twenty third on August. Twenty six suicide attack. Levin Marines, One soldier, one, eighty corpsman killed the Marines, apparently they There are reports that they knew that this attack was coming there, even some sources David the Marines war, Saint, hey! We gotta put up a stronger perimeter. We push the perimeter out, they got told no.
so that happens that's on August, twenty sixth, and that is when you re. The point where you felt you need to speak up about that yak up other events in their timeline families. My perspective So as the service members were watching all that play out real time in social media on the news every was given very upset. Rightfully so, and so one day you didn't mention was seventeen or eighteen August, a comment on the Marine Corps released away letter. That said, hey, I know a lot of you are struggling, but I want you to know your sacrifices were worth it and if restructuring go see the therapist Google, that's I just summarised the whole thing and I read that and thought this guy doesn't get it the reason people are upset
it's not because they think they're sacrifices are worth it. The reason their upset is because the leaders have failed in this withdrawal and that is undermining all their sacrifices, and he didn't is that at all in a hand, wave of going to the therapist is not good enough. So you understand, like I read that and it just just kind of started eating at me. And then the other thing we have to know is I've heard from the generals without naming names. I've heard this story many times following Vietnam. There's two nonsense: Cabinet Wilson and not bearer in what they did was in this is was told today fix the service. They focused on cleaning up the draft class, the drug,
users and making sure they could fix the failures from Vietnam. Never does anyone talk about the operational strategic failures that occurred at the general officer level at Vietnam that never got addressed was happening right now in the least the Marine corps, with the shift in the tactical focus- and I understand I think, there's actually a utility in the new force design, but we didn't do, was taken knee and addressed the operational and strategic failures that happened in the last two decades and I feel like the narrative is gonna. Be told again that the generals have to fix a service, because this current g, what generation is incapable of fighting on the technical level. So I'm struggling with these two problems, like senior leadership, isn't addressing the failures and I and I have a couple examples of that- and then yes, that takes us two August, twenty six, I'm sitting in my office as a battalion commander- and I am literally I have people texting me pictures of the Marines and had got killed, select.
Find it out, but within minutes that's the gossip on the inside. The company commander for all the Marines it killed was one of my s, pcs, a tv s, meaning is one the puts one Potemkin manners nominal BC. He was, he was a teacher tv s. I knew Jeff Ball real well, and I knew someone rain so and I have long history with one eight such jitters. There was no one. There was more personal to than I felt like myself from that moment, and so I sat there in my chair and thought I dont think senior leaders get it. I think they understand the failures, all these conversations about how well it's going. I can't think in no time- history, at least over the last thirty or forty years, where there has been such a monumental failure in not one person, has acknowledged it, and I just knew with Sir can t that following this event, no one can be how complex I had enough experience and education to be able to foresee
they're going to wash right past this and you can't make up for the lives that were lost, but we can absolutely get ahead and prevent the next stupid decision by starting to hold people accountable, and I felt the way to do that was through what I wanted to be just the one video like. I did not plan it to be anything other than I thought I make one video I'll explain some of the things that I think they should have done and I'm gonna demand accountability, because that's what I think we deserve because remiss in it, and so that was what Add to that first, video, and even after I made it a guy. I articulate in that first video that I knew I was. Potentially, my job, my retirement, my family stability, like obvious, I had thought through that particular in the video and after I made the video I didn't poster right away. I went back to my house and was like pacing.
Deciding whether or not to hippos cuz. I knew as soon as I hit the button it was going to change the trajectory of my life, but again I spent my whole adult life experiencing studying thinking living this and I just got to a place where I didn't think anyone else was going to say it. I felt any. Videos about above. A half minutes or something like that, your kemys, so that's something so you're you're you're. Definitely not sign away from who you are you You know you stay you, but you say in the video you been in Amerika for seventeen years. the one thing that I reflected when I saw the video for the first time is up I myself, your entire career. We ve been at war and I spent More than half my career, we weren't war. We was of the nineties the dry years, but I'm thinking man
This guy's been in the marine corps for seventeen years, the marine. Or an America's been a war for that entire time. You as you mentioned, you said you know you got a lot to lose. You know what happen, you knew you risk in your battalion command You know family stability, the whole nine yards you up that letter from the move from the commandant that he wrote and. You know, you mentioned that anyone throw their rank on the table and say we shouldn't give a bargain. Ouch again, you know going back to the silent five, which is what my master called the joints. staff that work for L, B, J, and you can even here, you know that I read in the beginning of guys that reflected back and said. I should have said something I showed us. I should have stood up. You talk about the fact that
people that died dying in vain, if we don't, you say you said: if we don't own up and say we did not do this well in the end, and No, I always look at that when someone gets wounds- killed and combat at a bare minimum bare minimum. Least, we go ok, we can learn from what happened in the situation. We can pass it on. We can make sure it doesn't happen again in That's what you're talking about and You kind of close it out by saying I've been fighting for seventeen years, I'm willing to throw it all the way to say back to sustain to to my senior leaders. I demand accountability and that's it pretty simple, straightforward message you hit post. I had. Thus you hit posts
How long did it take before you know you started getting text from your friends and you're Senor leadership, a concussion, no investment, washing answer, Walkin House didn't say anything go upstairs and I was sitting in my bedroom on the bed. A wife was generative bed. She had text said: did you post a, I sure, did. I wanted. It goes namesake Sancho. My friend texted me saying you're one thou right now I don't want viral or a girl so that you should probably watch the video to my life so she washed it she's, like you need to take this down. This is we're going to get in trouble. Take it down, and I was like babe it's already up, but you can't you can't put the lid back on the bottle and even if I could, I don't know if I'd want to answer this. Is me saying this in this moment as a kite, I really believe
and what I said in a video like, I feel very strongly about it, and so my wife then started feeling the gravity of what I had just done. Sturdy stress now, and so then I went downstairs sit on the couch, was just kind of thinking, and that did all my friend started. Texting me. One of my friends have Marsoc actually texted me and said it's do everything you said not videos correct, but it's going to come at way to hide a person cost and you're not going to change anything if they take it down this is the hell I'm going to die on, I'm not taking it down, and then I had one of my instructors from a Itv2 texting me is Gunny is section leader in awesome, dude he's like a sir. I watched your video and I agree with everything your video, but our adversaries could take. Video and use it against us and I think you need to think about that. They use take down to him. I said you know there, there's probably even some truth it out, but if we can't fix it
Finally, what we're doing right now with this conversation and I'm trying to start, then it's all for nothing, and so I guess those are all three true story is rose. I know from my loved one, for my friends people that work for me we're on tonight- and I was like ten other examples right to my phone pull up- that no one in my chain of command contacted me that night. So just people that knew me and you know I've. Never my wife and I never like slept in separate rooms even were angry. Like early my marriage, those I come, never never making me sleep. On the contrary, this is our We sit together until stuff like that night. I sought on the couch and I bring it up as illustrate like that's how stress what was originally Will she mad to space progressive? She were view or airing your own career. Yet I said
We had stability like in those three years, probably for the first time in our lives, and she thought she was going to be there. I just taken the tank mettersi, so she knew I was going to look for at least another two years I only had a year after that, their retirement She knew she had other three years in North Carolina. She just started a new job as a teacher or the kids are all in the same school for the first time, Finally, had always to build that she wanted, and then this took her by complete surprise. you knew that are polluting and have this job much longer. So every all stability. She thought she had. I took from her. some people ask me about that When it was happening- and I was again social media- or something like that- and I got asked of actually not because getting interviewed on a news channel but. you know my response was I guess I drew subconsciously from what course says when they say, or do you think you become emotional and he's yes, I have become emotional cause. I've
watched so many. men die and I am emotional and that sort of what I said, I said, listen there's, Here's a guy, that's been at war. for seventeen years, who I guarantee loss Marines and he's in here. Look at the situation saying this is a map I'm not taken us anymore. When did you hear from your chain of command the next day? So This attack manner. I was always the first one in the office and adjust, so happened that that day, my wife had a medical appointment and I had agreed to drop the kids off at like at school. Like all caught a clock, it was like an abnormal occurrence who's that one day, I didn't job, and so I take the kids until now I dont get in a word.
Can I get Tina as a blank matter? You don't tell people when you're coming in and just show up at a normal time, but I had texted my option: Xli Cameron late, So I tell you that, just to say my seo had stopped by my office and called like three times and might also called mammals. Like hey Sir Sio's really for each public on, and so when I drove an, I got it. I think I, like eight thirty, that morning seal was actually walking because his buildings must say two minute walk from my building. Who's actually walking between the buildings- and I saw him- and so I said man at the window is like you want to take them back to your place. His ignited, meaning in your office subatomic when park my truck and went off as a user is sitting in my office waitin for me, then what is it? The first conversation between colonel One I am he came off, is actually very carrying
they give a mind. This is a career, Colonel Command selected. That doesn't know me very well. I've never met him before my betancur man, so he's had about six weeks of meetings, maybe Alex seven in with me. He so just imagine, having he's another profession on professional doesn't know. Maybe it's not. I can drive and working for from upper years were and a guy that knows a guy that I know really like. I don't know anyone that really knows any. Now. We just don't know we shall win, develop, much relationship so, as I say, put a video you, sir, and he didn't really there My small talk is I wish you would have talked to me first. If you would have talked to me first, we could have worked through some of this and that's and he's right and that's the appropriate way, and I said yes, sir. I understand any psych icing that this v might be used to run messages that may not have been your intent. I wish you would have thought of that and again he was right and then he just stated look there's gonna be an investigation, that's gonna, take place and then based on the invest.
Negation grinning determine what to do. I'd like you to go home. take the rest of the day, and I will text you on Monday with where we stand and like all that was very reasonable right, very reason was tat. Was this already like on Fox NEWS in in the news outlets and all that at this point. No, so this still sort of you know your facebook friends, you know and then like always it. How, because our I mean, I think, you'd probably had received like ten. Thousand chairs, so mine by the end of the night. It was picked up by all the major new station, so in the morning like the cabinets office knew about it. I mean it we knew about it, but it you know it hadn't been picked up by mainstream media, but it does by the end of the day for like it wasn't like everybody knew hey when your friend, your gunny and your wife or all like, hey dude, take take it down.
yeah lovers. Gosh, I mean everyone knew here and so My seo loves my exo came in and I turned over the the time to him, and then I went home Then, when I got home my You called me an hour later and said: hey, I need you to come back and I'm started Ricky round. Eared need me at my office like no need me in my office Ok, so I meet him in his office and he just looks at me and says enhancement these beverages, you ve, been really for cause basin, Lock, Indra, trusting Covenant, giving questions. Yes. What do I do now? I need you to come in tomorrow. He's a what
will they happen is, though, will be an investigation, and I don't think they're gonna keep you here he's like the problem of Europe to Quantico and General offered ass to maintain the investigation so that he can take care of you. So I tried to China reconcile out of my mind and put them on a day like I kind of new I'd be relieved over it in I just said: o kisser until I signed the piece of paper that I'd been relieved I walked out and I actually made a post like immediately after it still up on my page is my my facebook and like that, and just now he's very appreciative. I said I think effective. One thousand four hundred today I've been relieved and in my command, is doing exactly what I would have done. I'd like to thank them for the opportunity of getting a service, ATV Patang Commander, and I look forward to next chapter. I'm so sorry,
appreciative post. Obviously, some changed for your regimental commander. Somebody documents that right, here's what we're doing yet. I might just to everyone to civilians, know what you're talkin relieve your commandment. You just got fired. Yes, are you fired and battalion command is a huge stepping stone and its reactors. possibility. The ramifications were I wouldn't. Get promoted again and the issue worth reading your mind. I had been relieved. I've been fires, I knew owner be promoted again, but I knew that there is still potential for legal action right. So I best case I just like a disgrace to ten a curl cubicle somewhere limping towards retirement, but your worst case was, I could be separated out the illegal action, and so I didn't know out which is unknown at that time,
How many days was it until you posted your next video so that occurred on a Friday and then I went into I haven't gotten all this in the story. So is his new stuff. I went home,
and my wife now had Conor wrapped her head around life was changing and she was still doubtful cause at that point too. She was thinking they may be. We go down a Florida, my parents, a vacation, rentals and micro, manage the vacation or animals, and I had had a try to do like a Father Sundays with my kids and I already had a pre planned one of my oldest kid down on the outer banks. She's gonna cancel the thing with Paul nor the sun had asked. Now. I think I could probably use a day away with just one of my kids. She said we need to talk to the boys and girls. Like aren't gonna FUCK Indo, China has been fired. Why don't we gimme the night, and so I went to bed? I was the last night, actually some of my wife that night some of my Saddam Hussein both know I've got the next morning got. The three
ways in the couch, and I told him hey guys, your dad was fired, but I was fired for doing something that I thought was right. I wasn't fired for doing something bad or nefarious. I once you those two here for me, because you are your friends at school, probably Anatolia and nothing is going to. Change for you, you're gonna get to keep living here, and I may have to go to Quantico to work that three years, but you he'll get there remain a school. That's what I believed at the time so total. Then I took my or the sun and while we were out spent the day in the boat. All I was thinking about was what do I do, and it did conscript over this to go back when I made that poster just think command. When I was on my social media, I read a public comment from what my previous bus.
Who knows it s eyes a captain, the lieutenant colonel, if my betancur manner that he did a lot for me, he retired, as there are six he had gotten on my social media and said if Stuart Schiller was honourable here, resign needed state that he was my previous boss, that he was a comment. Two made an email me than text me and I felt like a minute really was like a stab in the back to me, because a lot of general officers around linked in a day day prefer linked in not facebook. So that's why, linked into a lot of the senior officers knew who he was and suffer. Him call me out like that. so I'm struggling with one with my kid on the boat and striving with them. Leave me without even an investigation like I knew my job as a risk when I posted a video but like I feel it tolerant organisation, would have been like hey we're. Let investigation play out. Let you see, calm down? Obviously this personal, but you ve broken some rules and what's left investigation,
play out and will see whether chips while it that's the reason but the day they are. See, fired me within it our recent prized, when you got reliefs, I was surprised and modernization tapers thoroughly was no. I didn't expect like when I was calculating what would happen. I thought I might be bunched one on this occasion took place, but I do think it be relieved immediately, but. even that probably wasn't enough to push me. It was that next comment from my old boss. Where then I like Why was sitting there? My son I planted the seeds of I don't know this organization cares about me as much as I care about it And so I just was struggling with this, and so within a came back to like what do I want to do like if they, if none of them care about me, do I want to limp torture twice time for the next three years cause that's best case. And I just came to the decision like now. I can't live my life like that. Like was never supposed to be a career? This was
supposed to be something that was fulfilling. I don't care about the money as much as other people might have really done, I'll be fine and I thought I need to get ahead of this and I'm not gonna. Let them just dictate the term I'm gonna resign and I'm gonna tell them that cause. I still believe in what I said and they haven't addressed any of that, and so after I spent the whole if my kid on Saturday night Cocky that conclusion Saturday night and so on. We slept in not out there on the beach. A hotel and then on Sunday morning I took him back to the house, I'll drop them off of my wife and I'll just you know, had been fired on Friday. So I said: hey can I go out to the farm and I will go out there every once in awhile, just kind of like anytime and she was like absolutely I get it and I went out there to all my fifty acres. I've got to Bandon School is that I put out there it's kind of like trailers and we actually, I at least it to a nonprofit called a he
and we do suicide prevention, fur like outdoor treatment for veterans. So that's why I haven't. I I've had it. I've had retreats out there the veterans, but when I went out there that Sunday I essentially on went to school buses set up a video and the men on the second video was fired me. I don't think you care about me. I'm resigning effective immediately. I don't want any money and when a benefits in the night I posted it and that's where we really quickly became an escort. a series of events between the Marine corps, myself young. You know all this. even your original message, you were taught in about what you I was accountable. Anyhow desire, wrote a book called extreme ownership, and this is the very that's what it is right and that's it that's what you're saying. Even after this video comes out still. No one responding to anything in the video and they also did some things where
they're like they put they put some they made some pr maneuvers on you on you saying: hey we're gonna, make sure that he gets there, They knew something along those lines are so after the second video came out now. Again. This was Sunday I was fired on Friday, I haven't been work yet so it's Sunday night, Well, after my second video, I mean it's forty five minute drive. I posted from my farm is a forty five minute drive back to my house. By the time I got back my wife, thirty seen it this very upset and you hadn't pre breathed your wife on any less. Now, that's why she was justifiably very angry. An hour ago and all the details of that, but that's where the that's where the path started diverged between my wife and I and
so I ended up going and staying in a motel, so I was in a daze in for the rest of the week and my yes, the question you asked was this tournament, as the Marine corps piano off as public Affairs Office released a statement that was all over the media has now these videos working picked up. Second, video that I did was the banner of Fox NEWS like if you want a Fox news, dot com that day, like that was the first thing was mine. The plot my face on a school bus right and so the Marine Corps AIR was trying to get in front of it and they released a statement. That said, we are trying to locate lieutenant colonel shall or to protect himself to protect him against himself and his family. What I had my phone on me. tire time and I had even talk to my battalion itself. Like twenty minutes, I was texting my friends and I like if the Marine Corps was really trying to find me. I didn't think too ex me. They didn't think to call me if you like,
tensely, potentially the public Affairs office arm, just wasn't too king till I could never should have calling me. I just got out ahead of it first, but like the other, if it is maybe like they really just didn't care about me at all, and they just put that out, but like again, I'm having all these indicators of the sector's escalating thing like me, feeling like message right right. You should show some sympathy and they're like no I'm going to poke you interested what you did was broke. The rules and I might well know, come back and let us know what I'm saying like Oh you're still breakin arose and make a worse remain. So each one of these is just an example of unlike if they cared about me, they were called. One thing that I notice- and I heard you talking about it- you know at the end of that sector- video you're getting emotional, and you're like.
the asking for accountability and then kind of renting a against everything a little bit not- and you say you know, follow me and will bring the whole fucking system down sooner. You know, go and hard, and I heard you I heard you later say like me. I didn't choose the best words she s in that? So people have asked me a lot. Do you regret it? Because my life is dramatically changed lost a lot gained a lot though one the thing I've come through this with the understanding is I wouldn't change my original position or the events at all. I don't apologize, but there are certain ways that I delivered the message that I would ask We know that can tweak and the one shining example Izzie organ bring whole fuckin system down in that second video, and even in the third video I say a couple thing is it like? Could it or restrict at a context and so yeah
could understand. I mean in that second, video, like that emotion was a fake. I knew I was given up everything I've I I was terror and I was emotional and I didn't take multiple takes. I was like one take Jazzy get other MIKE drop, it posted like there was no editing about video and so I wish I could go back because it allows the media just paint me as this violent extremists, and I don't think I ever came. You are close that, like obviously in my Mackenzie, obviously in my head, I was trying to community that the system has centralized power, powers cropped and it needs to be fundamentally changed. But in the emotional outpouring of the moment. I said I wanted buck, insist mad, but- and I went back and clarify that like three years later in a post, I put in a constitutional manner with one voice, but like no one reads the follow up, you know I mean, do you get
one shot. That's right, especially when it comes to like a viable type, knows that are going to get out there to one's follow developments following up with that. You get home from that video and your wife is like in preparing your wife. Now your wife is just like now This isn't isn't gonna happen, attract damage and to our probably not going to develop much more of the story with my wife and I, but I will say you know I still like this past Christmas. After all, this was done and I got out on Christmas Eve. We spent as a family all Christmas together little water park together, like I still very much love her, we are still into a divorce situation, was very challenging and there's things that we both would have done differently and there's a reason The reasons I didn't say anything is good. I knew what she would say and again this was very important to me, but I think more
I think the reason we're going through a divorce- and we didn't decided to reconcile- is because what this sitting mission did was illustrate the trajectory of my life and how I'm always gonna be on the move, and I think one comment: she summarised it worth. I just in retirement want to learn how to play golf, and you are a fundamental change of government- does are two very different things in the store I just painted you for the last seventeen years. I'm in this woman has stuck by me. suffered through a lot and like she deserves a little butter, She hasn't had her her whole adult life, and she justifiably, deserves that annual She stood mother, my charge, I'll, never everything better say about others talk. but the virgin ever change, there's absolutely things. I would a changed with how I handled my situate, with her others, things that I still it back on it and it makes me sad. the end of the day. You can't look back, he's gonna, look forward and try to do,
Right thing, I obviously hit some minds wall moving forward, but I kept moving forward and you know she still a big part of my life, and so that is what it is, I was a rebellious kid and I like was rebellious kid. I listened a hard core music. I didn't listen to my parents, I didn't like school, I didn't do good and school. I didn't. I was like a Rebellious kid you can just trace that streak all the way back to my birth, When I look at you you're from you what we talked about today from your birth, on up its I I see that streak and in all of a sudden, it's gotta manifests itself. I get it look, you're talking about when you're in Ramada you're giving away money to these locals, and you think- and this doesn't seem like the, but I am saying that you're doing the same thing, I'm in your body do thou six were former leisure for people. I'm thinkin. Ok! Well I guess this old movies in one direction, but sitting. There is a
beady and you know slave as to what I'm being told us, what you're being told do do it. I always forced back on my leadership throughout my career always had the rebellious streak. and this just kind of what do you do when you look back in your life? Do notice things along the way that our indicators that you had sort of a to what you take me. Let's move removing reference. What's the movie reference with a guy is like an accountant or something, and then he kind of loses its falling down. Yeah. Am I right because I never saw that movie, but I remember Michael though that's what happens right he's a normal guy. Something happens here, gonna. Take it anymore, you nothing really happen. He just reached his point in general. At the beginning Like there wasn't like any indicators that was the beginning of the moving on early yeah, everything traffic? So what do you think's do? Are you do see indicators in the past where you you're thinking like man? I always had this now,
diverse basic. Suicidal rampage. I don't think that the comparison I think. Yes, dear boy, I didn't always push back minister. Did you give some examples there with my regiment? manner to kind paint a picture here at a certain point, I started to solidify who I was what my values were and its work A lot of people have asked me this, which I suppose surprised by the question, what I've actually been surprised by a lot of their question. People give me, but one of the questions was why now. you ve, been in you remarks in o seven. You did all this your whole life. Why now and they were asking that question, almost implying as if there's a Democrat and that's a president in like I use my platform to exploit now to become popular. The truth is, I think, people grow, develop and appreciate.
right as a young first lieutenant I want to go serve my country meal. When I look back on George bushes philosophy to export democracy. That was obviously stupid, but if you have twenty three year old story, teller or watching the Marines effluvia? All I could see where the Marines Brent of I used to love the movie black hawk down, and you maybe it is legit glorifies it. If you look at the operation, of failures in Somalia that led to that event, but, like I didn't, have a deeper appreciation for that. So the question I ask, is like. Why did I get to that moment? I had just at that point had enough education and sperience is, and I was in a What position of authority that they're just wasn't many other people like me, at that moment in time willing to say what needed to be said, so as time goes on after this, when do they actually like arrest, you do get arrested right here so I put that second video a week goes by
now. Did you do a September eleventh video to write a third video still not arrested yet, and I haven't with video in my Charlie's, where I basically my second third video was like just kind, outpouring of emotion when a second video is very angry. I resigned my third video was. We just talked about violence, and I was trying to like take the sharp edge off and video, but I still don't really go back to accountability, but aftermath video now all my friends are texts me, a man like. Do you look great? you and so an keep in mind like after my second video, even though the piano office put that message that they are trying to find me. Then, when I went in the work they command direct mental health evaluation to my mental health was being attacked from all these different angles and it so hard to defend
though health, because you really are crazy. Anything you say as marginalized, because you're crazy re, just like you're crazy, I'm like know not why I grasped the crazy person. You know: that's that's catch twenty two rival, as your boat was twenty zero runs crazy. You dont think your kindness right That's why you defend it so anyway, I did you start wondering you know what you're laughing about like when everyone tells you do. You start to question like Everyone in this room is crazy, like what does that make me in there and the only sane honour? Maybe I am crazy one so after the third video. They actually offered me a deal illegal deal. I couldn't just taken at now than that, but I was like man there's a lot of talk of me being crazy. Not in help myself at these two videos I the end and bring the message back, So that's what I made a fourth video. My Charlie's, like gentle Mackenzie, is like I can't think in Milton. History, where someone is so obviously culpable like it's just clear:
the emperor has no clothes, you have to see it in go through all the details as to why I think that, but that was the fourth videos trying to bring the message back to accountability, and so after that with video is when they gave me a gag order, and just and in the game, was crazy. I don't think I've actually released the verb agenda, but it was like, if you talk to him and he talks, him and they say that you said that you're gonna jail, like anything you like online chat rooms at any email if you communicate? This was because they offered you deal, but then you made another letter. I tried to nodded. What to do now. Now, I'm moving faster than their legal deals are moving faster than the investigation and they haven't The charge me with anything so they're they're starting to get scared because now of scares right where, but they did know how to handle their know, how to address it. There's a guy that's not taking the deals and he still make Statements and they and everything they ve done up. This point has been effective and stop in it.
so they hit you with the is this when they arrest. You know this is its after the fourth Vienna Gimme, a gag were so I'm still not in jail. Yes, and I are not allowed to talk to anybody attract year, not allowed to post on social media, nodded it Munich in any form you're. Just on locked out my luck, couple points number one: I constantly say to clients and people and friends. We don't make good decisions on our emotional, like don't try, this started as a joke, and also young. Unless a guy like we would go out drinking and make decisions, you know, and you ve ever joke was hey, don't make decisions to make life changes, as I would volunteer for Paul tunes and do stuff like that this is a good example right. You take a step back and and say, okay, what? Where am I a b strategically? This is another thing at our old timers, take a back
saint. Ok, where does it? How does this play out strategic from a strict is your perspective, where I'm going to end up just just things to think about which you're clearly like four hundred and thirty some morning, I could have changed here, I think that what I helped out my released so there's always things that can try and take a step back. They're gonna be beneficial to you. Almost. Indeed, the risk to that is time the risk. That is time also the risk that is you can rationalize too do any here you can rationalize to get to a point. Where you say you know what it's not, with it and and again, is it smart to do that? Calculus? It probably is because- my feeling, I don't know you, but my feeling is. If you would run the calculus you still came to the same conclusion. You might have executed your plan a little bit differently, but it's Horton too, if you can take a step back, run the calculus. So that way the course that you pay
will be the most effect of course, in what you're trying to do, and this just general you I've got some friends, and they know who they are. Who call me from time to time. Promotional and I gotta talk and through like what strategic perspective is what it looks like over the long term and and how to make the next step forward. So good good lesson learned and again: from my from just talking you today. I think still would have made the same. You'd come to the same conclusion that this is something that. I want to use the word passionate than other, that just that you are passionate about it, but you were you are convicted you had conviction about what you were saying and you know. something else from my perspective, in it, in an ownership and in a car, ability perspective that think people don't understand, as leaders is
If you make a mistake and you, take ownership of the mistake that you ve made there What you can do is you can fix them, stick and you can actually change things and just because you say hey, this was my fault doesn't mean you necessarily get fired or have to resign. You know any these senior leaders could say hey. This is what we fought we're not I'm not perfect, I made a mistake. I you know I did. I did that with thy. I made a speech coming from President Biden. If I was in President Biden, choose what I would have said, and we like cake I made this mistake- we undermine we underestimated. That means I under estimated that mean I thought that the afghan forces were stronger. That means I thought that the Taliban was weaker. I miss this assessed miscalculated how this unfolded, here's, what we're doing to fix it and
This is the thing that I think a lot of leaders don't understand when a person does that, when a leader does that the the team doesn't think all you see. That's right. You messed up. No, they think ok, european, Stop, please humble enough to take ownership and we're gonna get effective. We and will support him now that my vote, friggin career was taken on it when things go wrong, and so I think just again to some of these senior leaders When you take ownership of something it's not, the step forward? It's not a step backward. It is. True stepped forward, and by the way when blame other people- or you deny or you act like a didn't happen, vat. is a step backward. That's what people are sent as leaders on Russia, that our stand, that say what wasn't. It was the afghan people's fault. It was the afghan militarist vault, that's not a step forward. It feel like one, but it's not it's
backward because every single other person knows people know the truth about what's going on, they consented. and I think that one of the reasons why you're videos were, why be sure because people thought this guy. He knows what is he believes, what he sang and he Keep speaking from a perspective of truth, but people, people solid, people were like all he's trying to blame the leadership what's wrong with that guy, no people, a guy, he's gonna blame leadership. Leadership is wrong. and they should admit that mission take ownership of it so you get gagged guy What comes, then? Why do you wear what point you can arrested right so. Got gagged on let's call of Friday, I went through a sad, they Sunday, Monday Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday Friday snout it's gone into the next weekend and that follow
in weak on the Tuesday Wednesday. I knew that the secretary to fence the chairman of the joint cheese and german Kenzie, regrettably testifying to the house and the senator, and so I calculated if I violated the gag order, they might have a disproportionate response and that that would bring attention to hold less. It said I was Tryin, owes so I made another post. That was this. One is probably my most in sight for you know. Is it had some like insightful language of knowing revolutionary insightful, but I'm in a hurry. All attacks on people, like I attacked on public glass. What president's you know attack general officers, and I didn't see anything that was untrue but, like I said so, my carved stuff to hear wasn't very let it wasn't like a united message. It was Jessica, a fuck you to everyone,
and again I even put in the post, I'm ready to go to jail, but before I made the post I read the entire. Seemed J Mania for courts, martial I knew what the requirements were to send me to jail, and, quite honestly, I didn't think that they had the criteria to send me to jail. I was kind of prepared to go to jail, but I didn't think that they had the legal ability to do so for violating a gag order that I thought was illegal. and so now is item and I wanted to go or was that one time and then I showed at zero on Monday and they had payment waiting for man. They sent me to jail and the way they did it was there wrote on the document that I was a flight risk which was like just our line. I showed up at zero it on Monday right. I've been work every day, on time. The full time answered every phone calls to like it, just a lie and no one will be held accountable for that, but that was what it was gotta show that Monday morning, and but my calculation was cracked all
The generals had to answer questions Goku, the Secretary defence, about why I was in jail cuz. I went to jail on that Monday and they started their testimony on Tuesday and Wednesday, and then I was out and six days I have a total of nine days so you end up getting charged with article eighty eight contempt towards our officials go eighty nine disrespect towards superior commissioned officers article. Ninety Wilson, we disobeying so your commissioned officers article. Ninety two dereliction in the performance of duties, article, ninety two failure- obey a order or regulation article, one hundred thirty three conduct, becoming an officer and a gentleman how long to take for that trial process to come about usually takes months. They did mine five days after I got out of jail spreads. Neither do I need to and what we do in India to Sidney.
I was in a solitary cell. I honestly all I did was right. So the first two days I didn't have anything any right, gear books and then, by like day three, my lawyers ever drop off like all these legal pads pens books and giving my command investigation that just head them away now everyone, but I mean all these statements from these. Other officers are just like we're. Just lies drain up personal attacks, So I was like writing on the latest example of, like oh he sharply to work. That kind of thing I ever saw he was smiling as in his command photo. We don't smiled command those. I knew I didn't like him when you, when I saw that another one, this one guy. They use it in a court of LAW against Europe, These aren't like. I don't like people it's my reader. I agree with that. Just like you know
side of the mouth comments user on statements that they sign right of initiative. most data, this one guy I was at the beach with his family Are we previous? I went to his house for dinner to its previous with our families, the hang out, When I was in that motel were like me, I M Miller, light can scattered mile I've fallen apart, like probably really cool used a front, and he was texted me as a case. Do I do and man just one issue right and then we can talk about like why you do in us heathens. green shouted those and brought them to the that's a getting officer, unsolicited to say look. I was trying to figure out what Mozart. Like you, the stew, shelters to fucking nefarious character should have a bit of a tank manner. Am I who white man does that blood in the water was gone? Waterman sharks going pounce here, but they didn't realize it. I wasn't. So you ain't, gonna trial and try the judge you said looking, I reckon was like Heyward where the
for a judge. I dont think wanted me to plead guilty so wasn't you all the charges you read on and then there's like all these findings of facts. The only there's only one choice except guilty for all them: that special court martial or plead not guilty too, than the general like, so that, given the weeds about what any them said, there was almost irrelevant. and so refuted are not not guilty. What would happen how to run a general commercial? they remained in jail for another forty five months, while they prepared on pretrial while they prepared the General Court martial procedure, and then I would have gone and tried to plead not guilty to all them at general. Jack and then you you pay. Guilt it all over again there's no like. I want to plead guilty of these two and at these three, as it is, if there's no point in line with the details of it was, do you plead guilty too? All of this community It's too do you plead guilty to all of this at special misdemeanor, yet a the lowest characterisation
ization discharges general under honorable, which they'll determine later or you go to general plead, not guilty, and if you get found guilty of one of any of these is a felony and yoga dishonorable, and no sitting here from the four month And I'll tell you what even without choice I thought very strongly about doing the general because Gonna say Bro Europe this before my god. I've got a surprise. I know I almost did that and I think to the judges sentiment. I really think I could one but you got what I ask myself. What was the most important thing? The most import thing. The reason I gave all of this up was not to beat them. It was too serve the message of accountability, and if I felt d inside that I had broken some of the rules for me to beat them based on undue command influence and legal loopholes. I felt like what of marginalized my message of accountability it for me to plead guilty for breaking the rules and then look at them and say look
apologizing, but I'm accepting accountability. I felt it strengthened. My message also expedited my exit so that I could come on your job. Was podcast and talk about how gentlemen continues to be fired right. So for all those reasons again, I made more sense to plead guilty. so. I was kind of an almost anticlimactic I'll bet you malta- you, though there was some german so like I said the fastest court martial from exit of jail in agreement in the history, the marine corps. Also those charges. Like eighty eight, I think I was the first officer charge since Vietnam, like sieges they're, just like throwin stuff on the war it, but they were least the command? estimation with all those like it's just crazy things that those officer said to the media with my medical masturbation, so that selective art, those could be written about. Like, however, of violent extremists urges blatantly Falstaff I'm still on the fence of whether I should super Libocedrus like move forward but
once they believed that investigation. To your point, the judge, the judges like if That's true like this is criminal like those people should be brought to court, not Lieutenant Rochelle and so the Marine corps was forced to doing their commander investigation on the lead command investigation. So they didn't their command investigation, and so then I for that other commander message, because it had to do with me now. You gotta go to freedom of Information ACT as I've. Let me get this straight. so you had an investigation that was about me that you leak through the improper channels. Your scolded The judge you created. A new investigation still buy me about your improper handling and the only way for me to get that is to go to the problem problem the proper freedom of Information ACT, like that's correct and, as you know, have you That has now been avenant recovery because tolerating burned to the ground and we actually- but I probably also going to probably will soon for libel. This one publication and probably freedom of Information ACT to add that I pursued, but
Like right now, the most important thing again is the message I can show that people understand I'm a nurse fundamental breakdowns are not being addressed a politically that's what I want to change. Like do I have grievances that I can legally pursue sure. But us, like, I said earlier money is really not that important me. So we'll figure it out, and so you party red part of the deal was you resigned and you are done. You're done. Rigour, that's right at seventeen here's, maybe ten years now seventeen seventeen years and then you gotta what just before Christmas Christmas Eve Christmas, it is right that was it. where were you when you were out What was that might, like family came down actually yeah, so a pile of my family just acted like it wasn't happening, ah said, Anthea techniques right now, some of the show or taken this in early January. But after Christmas with my family,
I ve started doing all these munitions. I've been on a gag water for the last four months, so I don't think the reality of his actually hit me. It's gonna come when I'm done doing on this media and I'm sitting in my place by myself, with nothing to do as probably going back out shit. instead too busy for her to be really so what's So here your area, I this is only friggin weeks, a threat. What's next, what are you doing? I short of what is the new mission. This I want to illustrate like one so upset with general Mackenzie until the second talk about that. Now answer your question through that soap The reason I and that fourth, video try to prefer charges against Germany, which is my legal right to explain why I didn't touch on that. Explain what you did. You explain what you did that In the manual for core marshals rule, one thirty, seven clearly state
that any member of the you seem J can prefer charges against another member in the? U C amp J now that when you prefer, that means that charge sheet has to be rounded up to the first general officer with General Court martial authority. May it sometimes it's at it. the colonel level and so this strategy there was, I general offered was trying to hold me accountable. I knew he would never have the courage to refer charges from my prefer, but then he would have to publicly declared that he wasn't going to seek accountability against the general and he was seeking accountability as me. So I was using that tactic, to illustrate the hypocrisy of the system, but they denied me the billion even route. It was my legal right to do immune system in illegal and my, but does it matter so they don't allow me to do that. The reason I was trying to prefer those charges is because general Kenzie. Is these CENTCOM com, combatant commander? He works directly for the Secretariat offence, who work directly for the present What happened was in the other, the story,
You gave in their withdraw from Afghanistan Jerome Kennedy and I know the operational planners had developed a plan for the withdraw. They submitted the National Security Council for five plants, most of them included keeping Bach Airbus, but they needed twenty five hundred troops. If you go and watched him on the Kansas testimony on the backside, he says I tried to say that we need a twenty four hundred troops. Why that's relevant is because they determined that that number, what was what was capable of maintaining Bagram AIR base? When President Biden in the National Security Council said no, you got to go below two thousand five hundred, then General Mackenzie was at a critical moment right. So as a as the senior military adviser, you have a responsibility to convince your boss. Why you should execute your plan and you can't force your boss to do that. But ever staff officer knows how to get ammunition operations officer, there's an art to making sure that my boss does the plan that I think is best please. I know better than he does in a lot away. So it's it's artful, but he failed to do that for once
failed to do that, then he looked at the restraints that were imposed upon his plan. If he didn't feel like he could execute the plan effectively without undue loss of life he had a moral obligation resign. He did not do that once didn't resign. At that point, he is accountable. He doesn't get to go back after the fact and say no, I told you an Oscar Council, twenty two hundred, they listen to me. It doesn't matter the Union convention and you didn't resign. You're the senior military advisers. So, for all those reasons I think general Mackenzie should be held accountable right now, just as I've started this media tour. Two hours ago, the White House released the chair. Mackenzie was being replaced in the spring by a new sitcom combating manner, and I don't think it's a coincidence to be completely honest with. You could have been hit the media pretty hard that guy is going to undermine his whole career? If he doesn't raises hand to say he should be accountable for he exit? So that's one thing I think would operational level of war, which is at the combat commander level linked to the
political policy, strategic love of war, which the National Security Council executive branch is where we're failing. Wars we, Vietnam, it's where we failed to do watch racing and how you do that as you hold leaders accountable at that level and right now Congress and the executive branch aren't holding their into the bargain, I'll. Give an example of what I think is wrong Congress when I went to type placed myself in jail and waterways to illustrate something- and I underestimated: I guess I over he congresses ability to do anything because by partisan took turns with their sound bites of anger, about fail, Afghanistan, withdraw and guess what nothing congresses. Even by the founding fathers leverage over the deity is the budget and what was not in the news is six days previous. They unanimously approved a seven hundred forty billion dollar. Twenty two fiscal, your budget and not one of those vocally outraged. Can national representative said hate you,
two percent Ahern, forty billion dollars. The cannibal from Afghanistan. Withdraw. Show me, tricks of effectiveness for the twenty one budget, because to do that would require courage to do that would get spawn is potentially in time, military and that would go against self preservation. So why one going forward. I want the operational level for combating commanders to start being held accountable in the same manner that they were more were to look at how many generals Lincoln fired, forgot to grant and cry wasn't a good tacticians, but he had operational foresight me. He knew how to to stick with it. This way thing, I think, is we need leaders, not politicians, so I've got a website, often take americans dot com, where you can see some of my political views, but ultimately its where you can support me- and I have also got to website votes for vet dot org, because I think we need leaders, not politicians. I arrived in the four months that I've been on it, I gotta gone out and organised a bunch of people running in the twenty two. so that five senators and twenty congressional representatives in all eyes,
embody the leadership and Kurds that we need in politics and some of them think ever Ruby not a winning. Some of them are more of a longshot, but it's have the ability right now, the platform I built to raise money bring in media to some of these races, bring indifferent innovations to support some of these leaders. I think, need to be up in nice and easy and is that also linked through authentic American Stockholm? Further for the people that are running For the vets at a running votes for that's, ok, number, four subverts for that's dot. Org is really we can see most of those candidates My website, authentic Americans? Really? You can go need to the disabled veterans pack through authentic Americans and that money ultimately will go to support the coalition that are built, but there are separate, Authentic Americans is really my Brandon, my thinking- and I don't not gonna, run most likely in the twenty to raise our planet just support these other veterans. I've been through a lot like, I said I think I need. Stabilize a little bit. In reality,
the landscape before just continuing to spread, but I do think you're. My whole life is. America, love America and I love foreign diplomacy and I think the federal port scam is where you really make that those changes and saw. I see myself run for something better, probably won't be till twenty enforce. So that's what you're gonna do. You're planning to go into politics are now in the future in the future. Right now, I'm probably and write a book probably in a figure out where my, She's gonna be at so normal. if couple years, getting mine foundation stable until I see something that I think makes sense. the lock on all matters of our continent, I believe you only got out of a month ago, that's gonna, crazy. I it seem like longer time had passed, You're on social media, beer,
on Facebook, honest around toward her. If you go to my website all my social media linked at the bottom set, we just got authentic Americans die to find on webpages. It's all at Stewart Shower S C, H, P, L, L, E R seems like we're at a decent place to close it out been over three hours, echo Jaws any questions, don't actually I was going to say I didn't want to write a book or something, and you are gonna danger in right now these social media, personal, swung, I contacted me, though it is used, he's gonna be. Nice was a hasty ever thought about writing a book and set a slowly writing a book overnight. You haven't got a happy at its always booking seems to be like your primary will. The results from you, I mean Instagram, unlike Tik Tok, or whether the new generation, but Facebook allows long, written, post and so really now, if you look at it linked in half of his, has a smaller character limit.
And so what I've done now as its the same post on Facebook and linked answer really the linked in character limit is like the exact character, along with those guys. I usually right like two pages, and then I tried a pair them down for the character limit, but just those two I think the attention span of our current generation they has to be in just chunks get one of your books in its lot harder to get them not just, but if you hit him with like five posts separated by three days, you gotta, I think, a much higher chance of getting them to digest similar, What do you hear from the Marine corps right now? on consumer rights that they have. A lot of articles have been written on me since I got out started down the media and the sea. Statement. Is we're not gonna? and on a civilian that used to serve and Rank Lorenzo, then got like one common: So when I can comment about it and so will see, though, I'm hit them with a lot of media, so that might change but gillig, you said so. I ve been like one week's pose a Christmas day been MAX. Who knows
What are you? What about your friends in the marine corps? What do they say? Nothin I mean the dollar tat cry. How's that were closest to me in the best that I've made I've got a couple interviews: unjust, illustrated what they said they vavasor on to come silent all these, their guys, it I know have come online line like that bullshit they did that, and so I think they're probably have a hard time cut of reconciling what they did was I? If I were them and I can speak for them I can't say I've had a lot of guys speak up and say I can't believe they did that, like that's so snake in the grass dish yeah, I mean you said: you'd, listen this part gas little bit. I I am. fan of the marine corps. In fact, my My family says that whenever I talk about the Marine corps, I quote
Melville joke about it. I said a marine course Freaking squared away. That's what I tell whatever reason. I'm with my family in the Marine corps comes up I'll, be I can drink was freaking squared away and it's the truth. I I love. The marine corps worked alongside the Marine corps, pretty much my whole career, and just if I think the marine corps is outstanding and This is the rough rough. watch this unfold. Bartleby Clare. I love him granted the marine corps as prescribed away, but that comes from the individual is high calibre person politically in the Marine corps, the problem the centralisation of power over time and cut. It puts the blinders on so there's some fun many things that need to be addressed, but everything I'm doing is not from contempt or or hate it from it's a love. I am. I hold high regard for the Marines and- and I still think highly of them. over three. What do you take that that sixty five page
draft they had to get rejected and then what you, what you could have done, two hundred and thirty, so that other thirty five pages. So what you put in your book, we all what kind of one here, but I heard him say right on still you gonna, causing thought before you shut down now I'll, just echo to your audience as I watched my saga unfold in the media. Them stream media. So polarized right now was very hard to get a true assessment of like how people even felt watching the news, because I almost highlight like people are taking my statements in trying to them into whatever their narrative was insured. Like yours, pockets like yours, Youtube channels. I was actually It is much more accurate feedback from what people thought. Then mainstream media so I really believe going forward. If the mainstream media can't figure out how to reconcile kind of their own polarized views that platforms like yours or even more important scientist. I encourage you to continue
your brother? Well, I will never recently Information came out about Joe Rogan and he's just annihilating the mainstream media, which is awesome. the total destruction I mean, maybe two three four times what the mainstream media has. Four listeners Rogan has so and he's one of you know he's the leader view that the head of the pack, but there's a lot of other another, a lot of other people out there, that are doing the same thing. Trying to get the word out and trying to talk in a new wants way about things, and you know you're a perfect example of a guy. That's gonna, get interviewed and have they're gonna interview with questions for sound bites that they can make headlines that people will click, that's their goal and so you haven't you on here to actually give your perspective of Europe
perspective, say whatever you want, like that's the goal, so people can actually hear and understand where you're coming from and it s important well up thanks. Commoner man appreciated thanks for travelling all the way out here. I know you were never made it to camp. lt in or twenty nine palms for aid to be stationed, but you find the gutter visited the eagle at least for a little bit. Thanks for sharing your story. They should Your concerns, thanks for sharing your lessons, learned I know what you did and what you are doing is not the easiest path but you're standing by what you believe to be right and what I believe to be right. These people need to take ownership when things happen, that is commendable. I hope that, despite the negative impacts that this has had on you on your life, I hope it eventually has a positive impact, for
the marine corps for the military are large and, of course, for America, while that man, better service, absolutely you're down the road, bring me back on the shelves in Burma Ozma. Thank you. they had with that Stuart Schiller has left, the building. Definitely she'd, have common on an interesting journey, but he's been on. Yeah, just thinking about some other stuff that he talked about, especially at the end start talking about the the medical ramifications of things that happen again. These are all things that. I talk about these things and we should try. You give up your influence, but this in time like David hack worth,
get to that point where you're not gonna. Take it anymore, you're you! When you talk about Mackenzie one thing: that's it resting. Is he and I just want father. This is read or write, his do love, but you ve met in that you're, not position President says no to your plan. Did it your duty to turn your rank, that is one way of looking at it for sure but also you're? The other way I talk about this leadership. Charging tactics. that's one thing to do, or is it your duty to Meda, the risk of the planet being utilized that's another way to look at it as well and PETE But here's where we either of those two options. Here's that the point that I think is important- and this is stu would agree with this. the outcome, you all
that's the difference. This is something that you know when Napoleon said. If you, if you follow, orders even if you know they're wrong and you follow orders your culpable. So that's the point so where I might disagree with stew that the duty of someone to turn in their rank, if they, can't convince their boss or turning their resign from your job if they can't convinced her boss, That is one way of looking at it. I would see it's your duty to execute the plan to the best, your ability and the take ownership of the fact that you didn't we were able to convince your boss, take ownership of the fact that the plan that executed was one that you agreed to execute and you did and it failed, and it's your fault so just to again, I'm sure you know, will be able to talk about this more in the future, but I wanted to, as I was walking back upstairs after after walking out stew,
Just thinking about that fact of look, it. again, one way to say it is your duty to turn your rank in my opinion. it's your duty to either turn your rank or take ownership of the plan and take ownership of the outcome of the plan. That's what you do so. Hello, nuance on that matter appreciate him. Common on and Again, trying to trying to be able to- allow someone to share their entire perspective. So. Peter. Do writing Roger. I do the right thing we should be trying to do the right thing. I think so too, and I think that start with you know improving ourselves miss, trying to do the right things in our own world strew, ex something we all should be doing this.
Any recommendations on how we might do that this will swell okay. So my recommend, mendacious are It is these forty four things is actually eight, but these four things and they divided into two, each one. Does it for its recommendations to do to improve yourself, sleeve relationships to prince relationships, wiping or that can be categorized? I think there's health incapability to think you're money and what you do with your time and your worldview and spirituality the Forthinketh centrally. So you want improved that, if you feel, like you're lacking in any one of those pay attention to improve it, good news about the about that in the bud this whole. Thank goodness, we have things that will help you improve all these things.
Let's start with the physical, actually, the physical part of it. I think it is a big one, and so will you want said earlier on this project report asks that. The physical one will positively influence all yes and factually fat truly, and what I didn't save, which is equally, is true. The physical one will negatively impact all look at that slide telling my I actually wrote about both those things in leadership or no in despite freedom feel man. Oh yeah, and you know we will hurt your head. If you don't have your health, you don't have anything like I'm going to like that whole thing I mean yeah, I think about it's like. If you're like okay, let's say you have the best, you just landed the best job. And it pays a lot any blood, doing it's what you can't, let us their sale locked up or you now our guns are at risk of X y, see terminals diseases yet known takes up. This
good situation, regardless of how much money you make or what to give great great relationships, intimate family friends great, but collected your health now you're on the path to them eyes does help you relationships and after the hurt you really. I am very sad, including you, but either way you see where I'm going is so, let's take care of our physical health with improve off his glass like never too late start my opinion. Well, after dead little bit, but realistic. Wherever were we're alive and we're doing it good news, we have some, sir Lamentation help you on this path. Physical and mental born. We go ok, so a big one that I actually, I don't say, didn't pay attention to two. They do take it every day, but it disorders, just you just take it as the vitamin D. Three, that's immunity. That's all it's a lot of things! That's a big one! I feel like when I got Miss Rona. You know factor really
actually cause vitamin D. I'm thinking so many give you. The exact same story saw the first time we caught it. That was left twenty twenty round. Eyed. all tight! I don't know and test positive technically, but here look, we wit and twenty twenty right, that's that these are ya, know symptoms at all not even like the or, actually I don T know tat. I lost my sense of smell right, that's it no fever, a no cough Nineveh, half Millville you're, no craft. No, never answer! No factor didn't miss a worked out, nothing! My cuts as I reviewed I notice that my work out were a little bit weaker the norm, but I thought I was over training or something like this. You have a bad name, suitor after all right what they see with your fever. You shouldn't work out, you can
a cold, but if you don't have a theory store capture, everybody will still. I respond correctly. That's what I hear so so this. Written kinder recently will say and undisclosed time members of my family took up her virus test tested positive, so took the test quarantine. This very many good reasons to believe, that I, whatever they had not my family member, had. I got it to good reasons why I'm gonna go into how or why others to the net after that, the real I'll come back positive way. from my family test. Does it say of course I got it. I had to have got it technically illegal ticket tests and has positive swat on foot square. So again, no symptoms, Nilsen not even a coffee were no factor, look off no factors.
In fact. So technically I got corner virus on paper this. What I got not in real life, not in the field there was no corona buyers to be seen or heard or felt is only on paper. I truly, That too, I think, anyway, the care that I took up my immunity, but indeed three cold war by the way called, whereas in every day they called, whereas they can see somebody on the horizon, the boom called world. They were pre emptive strike on that since avidly, yep. So we got all that Jacko Fuel, cold war, vitamin d, three got stuff for your joint joint warfare the theme everything is war against this bad. This kind of mirrors. Surprisingly enough, our theme is war, a war against weakness, organs, disease or robots organs about by the just in case you actually like robots intended. Nonetheless, ok are also, if you like energy drinks,
or, if you would like energy drinks, but you'd want to health. The ramifications that some traditional energy drinks provide for like a we get something free to just lingo energy drink, all healthy, so good, no preservatives all natural no sugar, all natural All natural monk on all natural wait a minute wait, a minute, vitamins, six electrolyte so good for you know you're only ninety five milligrams of caffeine enough to get a little, but not enough to give you the severe on this path and your Dumford Energy drinks scenario. This is hundred percent the one on key beyond the path, not off go energy drinks you're paying off the path? Assisi? Not this one bump on the mark, don't worry about monk in look. You're gonna get situations where your life in your life, where you have a
in the past, you feeling good yesterday and disciplined, and you just eight of again salad, in breast Braille, a lawyer earlier. Anyone know some afterwards is we got gotta get em oak than you do. You have deserved the seventy percent good for you we're so So we had a scenario: accession even sake, they can fell off the path of Luanda scenario, a friend of a friend daughter birthday scenario. Cake was involved too big to anyone, like a cupcake but whose like way bigger, but it wasn't as big as liquor. a regular size, chaotic cakes, not that tempting to me, because I only like the frosty out of those good road. This one was a chocolate, is frosty. Denoted actually is what is its word, what came but butter lot of butter in it. But sugar flavouring,
like a flavouring of some sort of chocolate frosty, MRS Butter, sugar and chocolate. It might cream. I think that's freedom the report. I like there's a lot of lake parental, like that's where cupcakes, not really my thing brought the exact opposite in their six often can their huge so you know the kids eat some, it's a birthday. I get him. Let it slide, but brothers, big, cupcake, lotta leftovers, understand say that lot of have you know but here's the thing that I only one meal that day so technically but it was. It was weakness. What is more, we should add a mark, a lot animals at home or whatever filled the whole. Him totally think here's the thing it was an opportunity was like what you call it. One like bad days come in at an appropriate opportunity. Exactly rang a cup of Molly S, brow you got beat by african copycat brightly. The opportunity of doing so mean indicator in theirs
could contain renew the leftovers. You know how people in your younger you gonna go out with a friend, drinking and you do like, we're gonna pre game. Yes, Sir Henry Pre gave him no him from it let's say you're going to her What's the UFC at see your friends house, more you're, goin to you know your wife's got a friend ass, some part, whatever you gonna some unknown realm, we're not sure. What's gonna be eaten. pre game of the mark. Remember them all go away, they show up. Look they show up with you, know, pizza, and instead of eating nine pieces of pizza, you set a more you're, so courage so maybe have peace will be socially rupees appeared the taste good, whatever oil, so I get back Back in the day long term I get or decision in sure some people in the room, don't really are really antisocial and very much
and I get it one. I'm like super hungry. Next officious, why does it is placing it milkshakes everyone's right, get a milkshake, too If you drink some of the milkshake before the sushi, it's like you're, not even that hungry for the sushi anymore, counterproductive. Yet because it's not only is your colleagues for sure, but it takes. We know. You know what an axiom rain I gave you accidently pray. I pray gained with the wrong thing. With lower line. Is its Ets absolutely true. Freedom with the milk or gonna go out to dinner words like hey we're going to this place. It's not necessary italian. Through s, yellow I'm gonna get the chicken part which is kind of were borderline were brush up again. Spear still gonna have some pasta with it. So no pre game pregnant say both hit for the world rather too did actually really good at what man I've got all the type. The other thing you gotta watch out for you, you you,
go. This is another situation: hey we're gonna Dinner party ever go to it like one of those people, Ah, here get on top of things right, so you show up at five you tell me we're going to a dinner party. That means would be eating. We all bear five next thing. I know its seven o clock that we have any now, I'm not happy about the scenario right, because guess what that you're, not eating cause they're put now freakin ships ran whatever yes pre game brigades That's what I'm saying programme with the monk and wanting it technical than other its realize it does. Its actually kind of the opposite is a premium technically, but does the opposite of a drinking preaching I've always heard of pre game. As the during clear on the web for the drinking pre game, you drink tea, yet more liquor, liquor it up you during the milk to get more her full the areas.
kind of its positive pre game that order Supreme nonetheless, very constructive programmes. Animal national everyone must have got to talk with you about come if subscribed to its shipping is free. If you want to pick up some of the energy drinks, that's actually good for you. Gonna walk when a pick up any of other stuff go to vitamin shop and you'd get better better life or better healthier. Your backup, he'll, also origin origin USA of American made stuff. Now, I'm isn't just any kind of sick merkin made Denham genes boots Leather, stuff, I would say it gives a clear find a little bit more without going through a list of stuff to America made stuff that you actually need right. This is done that you. Actually, this is the what what you need! Well, you need. You need genes unique, words, you need a sweatshirt guinea t shirt. Beanie in this is that we need any boats, unity.
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It's a big deal. We didn't have that reforms since in the future I gave her a Nobel peace here and now it's a good thing to have the good old man of a big deal. You put release of a news article about that available. This leads to say it's a big tucker. Was you see what I'm saying they are restored accompaniment represent the check, if you like something something also, grab to this podcast. We also have the unravelling broadcast. We have the ground I guess warrior could kid podcast. We can also join us at the underground, jock underground dot com there's weird things happening out there. people being banned shadow banned there, videos being censored, which is easy, like talk about China and the fact that they ban parts of the internet and social media? They do. You are not allowed and here happening here in Amerika. Oddly enough, what
what do you think is like the above board, not even above board, What what is the motive? You think tat someone? driving a narrative? I feel sorry man, I feel like someone who's response, I mean I'm sure, there's a group people who are responsible for that and they're kind of running the banning. But what is it like? What is the conclusion that they come to be like in what we should really just stand for his driving a narrative, driving a narrative and here's your what socks is the worst thing you can do to try and drive a narrative is not let people talk, because if Ankara has a dumb idea, the best thing the let him talk about their dummy ds. We can say: hey here's your, why your ideas, dumb scary and we let ego get involved and instead of me saying you know what echoes gotta opinion I'm not sure if he's right or not, but I think, he's wrong. So therefore, I going ban him we like, while echoes, got an idea if that idea actually has merit which brings out the open, we should talk about and see if it's right or wrong or
maybe not necessarily right or wrong, is worth this with this. What scared, not necessarily right or wrong, everyone's everything to be black or white science, sciences in black and white site, its changes. So when you say something is wrong, how many things are actually wrong. Not to many especially when you have evolving situations, whether their political situations, medical situations there, these, things evolve, and so did you say you know what we're not gonna. Let you talk about. Your idea is really crazy and it's happened, That's why we made the job underground Ground, Jock underground our com, it's a place there! control we control platform, are you listening to read almost your on the ground? So if you wanna help us out in the underground, have a little sanctuary a freedom. You can
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like. I was very impressed. I know you're trying to say that I have low expectations, but I have the highest of expectations. You made some really good stuff in the past, this one- and you know what to be honest with you. I wasn't releases, and director on this will come about me out, created that little bit better pointers. They could added you love plot lie criminal, but you know up, but from a graphics perspective the amazing, so none of you want to check out some of those videos that echo Charles makes in his head and then makes him in actuality. Subscribe Origin, USA has called channel to subscribe. To that I mean you, don't I made I made a mp3 album, yes, the lawyer, psychological warfare from worse ones. This album you talk like, does have tracks on it. Each track.
is literally the solution for any moment of weakness. You might have common one, apparently any to make room for cupcakes. Were you gotta, endorsed by a complicated about it? Was those like it, like too fast for me to be like Olympie pop in Truchen psychological warfare. Don't even think I am, I found you got Amber's. I got a look easy in what used to be a hundred percent its effect. There is now no longer wise and put in if I put it in, and I still shows to eat the oversized cupcake, which had a big large front end benefit by the ban would not have been hundred percent, but you know why I chose not to too you know to put it in, but nonetheless, you put it in hundred percent effectiveness will get you pass these moments, these common mom's, a weakness, skipping the workout nope. You must keep the worker protection
I do I wasn't about two skipped or none at all, but you know over them when you you talk about like oh yeah, when you wake up and it's cold, but it war in the bed. Today was literally like that this morning's chile, denuded of italy- actually even took took a cold shower proved yourself. I got the cold tub, didn't break the contrary and how they say one of the benefits is like it. It exercises your mind to do something. You really don't want to do so that way, like Mental Erin, everything up seems like an easier or whatever I guess even though, You really don't that's not First thing you want to do, go in a cold, shower or cool down when you wake up. Usually but when you get out, you do feel like Daniel some others. I've got a weakened in your body, of whatever good way to wake up. Strew
folks, I gave a stock armed go to my remain closed off. To hang on your wall check that out two books, final spin, somebody's posted Last page of final Spain, which we gotta admit that is gonna, but so I was like It looks so cool to see that last page posted cause the weights laid out and stuff final spent. check that our leadership strategy and tactics, field, manual, cold evaluation, protocol, discotheques, freedom field manual, waiting? where you get one two, three: four: can you kids on the path get the neighbours on the path making the dragons about by hack worth quoted from it today, extremely amateur economy of leadership that arose with abundantly famine? Also, we have a leadership and solvency echelon, want leadership. Is the solution to your problems on what your problems are, but in a leadership, is the solution inside your organization, guru, echelon fraud, doc,
for details on that. You can also check out my wife events that we have. We have the muster to day conference. We have you'll training exercises, which are two days you spent the field and learn how to maneuver and then led in simulated, combat missions, You will feel your leadership improve? Battlefield, will we go on walk historical, battlefields and Tom about the lessons learned from the good and bad calls made by leaders surgical. that stuff out additional front darker. We also have in all my draining academy, for you too, is is you in taking ownership of your life. the various skills in life. That will that will make you better don't put in a better position. Help you overcome scenarios that we all face. So
wanna take ownership of your life groups cream ownership, dot com, I'm on there too. Three times a week live. You asked me a question good, go in there and asked me a question: you wanted you wanna dive a little bit deeper into extreme ownership. Go on there. We have courses that you can go through when you want to go your team, through Extreme ownership training go on there your team, unified behind the same principles. Three: martial law com- if you wanna help service members active retired, their families, Goldstone fairly, check out Mark leave my Mama Lee she's got a charity organization that does incredible things for them. Europe and their families, if you I don't really want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors dot. Org. and if you want to hear more from me,