This is Jack. Podcast number sixty three with ECHO job was in me, Jocker willing good evening echo good evening. I am an american fighting. Man I serve in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared give my life in there I will never surrender of my own free will. In command. I will never surrender my men while they still have the means to resist. If I am captured, I will continue to resist by all means available. I will Every effort to escape. I will exe. Neither parole nor special favours from the enemy I become a prisoner of war. I will keep faith with my father

low prisoners give no information or take part in any actions which might be harmful to my comrades. I am senior I will They command. If not, will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way when questioned Should I become a prisoner of war. I am bound to give only name rank service number and date of birth, I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability: we'll make no oral or written minced disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause. I will never forget that I am an american fighting. Man response

possible for my actions and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in God, and in the United States of America, and that is the nineteen fifty five version. Of the code of conduct for the armed forces of the United States. And it was written in Greece. Spawns to the brutal treatment. Of the seven thousand one hundred and ninety Americans captured by the enemy during the korean WAR, nurse who were subjected to torture in Dr Matian brainwashing enforced confessions, in that version of the code that I just read, is almost exactly the same as the one.

I learned in the military. When I joined in ninety ninety. They did make some changes to it. They change it to include men and women, they changed two words to give some flexibility to, increase survive, I've ability and psychological recovery from torture and so the little changes that were made it a change from the prisoner. Being to give only name rank and service number and date of birth to the point You're being required to give name, rank service, number and date of birth, small changes, but the spirit of the code didn't change at all. And that code is what we as military fighting men and women were and are expected to uphold

Should we ever be captured and help His prisoners by the enemy code of conduct is simple and clear and straightforward, but the code of conduct Gets tested, unlike any other document in the world,. When our american service, men and women are somehow captured in this prisoners of war face absolutely ruthless levels of torture pain suffering disease, starvation, humiliation and perhaps the most devastating hopelessness,

and tonight it is my absolute honour to have one of these men here. One who, during almost a full year of horror upon whore the hands of his captors and Vietnam. Man, who persevered and fought with, ray ounce of his soul. To survive against the worst possible condition, I imagine about a man that not only learned the code of conduct but lived it retired Army colonel William Bill reader. Sir, thank you so much for being here tonight. Thank you, Jack Odin. It's my

on to be here and participate in this podcast as well. Thank you. I want to just before we jump into the book. If, good. Just talk a little bit about you grown up what you did what you are like. Where are you oh boy, ok, I didn't notice- was going yeah. Essentially kid off the streets, LOS Angeles was born in one day. I'll grew up for a time in the San Fernando Valley, which is in the opening prologue today to the book, yeah, I had a tough childhood. I guess I would say God some trouble as it is a young guy sports help me at least survive to graduate from high school left com. And I went off to college universe. Riderhood study forestry left college less than that an esteemed academic terms. After only want one here worked for

as a year? I worked all the time as a kid with various small jobs. Newspaper routes and sullen magazine stood door. Detour then did struction workin and my early teens roofing work via after I college. I worked at Aransas for a I work for the: U S. We're service for a time out millions of firefighter I on the other fire Susan went back home to LOS Angeles and found a job with southern California Edison in Santa Monica Club, paralyzes Apprentice Lyman and did that and the outbreak of the Vietnam WAR and then found my real nature when I walked into the army, Recruit Santa Monica California and and sign on the dotted line, will use that nineteen sixty five. So why are the talk and Gulf answered occurred? That's where they hear that you have just wars were attacked and writing sixty four, and we put, means ashore denying in March of nineteen sixty five. So I started talking to recruited First, has grown in the marine corps,

but somehow I ended up in listing the army in August nineteen sixty four, and there was a transition to becoming a pilot. That was so I started out to enlisted. I went to basic training and advanced individual training and ait. I was in case you can't can of Cannoneer member of a cannon crew in an artillery in it and then applied Sir Candidate School, and they took those with the highest test scores to pass a series of interviews, but they were looking for officers and Firstly, Arturo lieutenants, and so I went or Tory Officer Candidate School six months of training with some degree of harassment and then get commission in August of nineteen sixty six as a second lieutenant artillery how long? How long did you artillery for before he became a pilot what about a year, I didn't think I was going to be able to fly, and that's really why I didn't go in the marine corps. I wanted to be a pilot throwing to services. You can fly without a college degree, so this college dropout had hopes and either the Marine corps or the army

when I once saw them re recruiter. He gave me a battery of tests. Can we can guarantee you a flight, training or cable towards these issues? Go analyzer pacified visible, as just go. Analyzer pacified, visible, you're good to go so I could sense. There was something put here so before I went in and I went to a flight, Santa Monica Gimme, the same flight visible. The military does and tell me if I could pass it, the physical and said: no, you wouldn't pass it. He said your right eyes about twenty twenty five to twenty thirty years earnestly but terrorism. They require perfect twenty vision. You couldn't pass the fight physical So I rode off: the Marine Corps was going to do that and I went into the air and the army, and instead thinking I would never fly after. I want to ask: Average Roy Commission. I was working in an artillery assignment of Fort Carson Colorado.

And went in for an annual physical and when I get the physical came back, twenty slash twenty both eyes. So I was I was in like Flynn took that down in the flight surgeon put my application in and when lights, go, awesome, awesome and so. I'm gonna jump into the book here you are spend your first torn Vietnam. I think your first horn, Vietnam, your fine that the mohawk right, ok, so first torn Vietnam in by the way talk about for the park ass, about how much risk you guys talk in Vietnam as pilots, its it She crazy we're getting more that, but one things that struck me as a bridge between the beginning, your book, your talk about you got shot down on your first deployment of Vietnam as a pilot, so so here

Here's you tell that story, dear your crew, when you go in your second deployment that you said yeah the first couple operations we ve done here, they ve been pretty exciting, but nights and good ones. On my last deployment, why do I got shot down? And so here I would go to the book here. This is what happened when you got shot down, but first I took a thirty seven millimeter millimeter antiaircraft hit the right wing attack king of Fuel Depot he hidden under the trees, classified mission and louse overload chemin trail. I pulled from a rocket run, WHAM bowl right side. The aircraft seem to explode, we tumbled out control the right wing shattered and was on fire worked hard guy back some ability to fly got the fire out. We were descending fast. Couldn't hold altitude gave the com and to reject the observer went out. I pulled seed handle right after I had a very short perish. You ride only partial shoot deployment before hitting the ground with a thud we're crime.

Through the tree tops by the time I pointed out so so for those but don't know what all that means right there. That means you're when you pull an ejection handle on a on a junior in a plane if he checks you out just do it with some level of altitude, not when you're hitting the tree tops so you're, hidden three jobs that in the canopy not opening all the way, That means that the food usage of the parachute. Isn't there it's just sort of getting opened it and foam hits the ground by women took a picture of my shoe down site and you can see the the parachute is just all strung out and plan their dinner, the pursuit of agreed. I never got a single oscillation. I get a partial Should deployment in the ground. Glad we consider laughing. I offended you by laughing at this. I am not at all. You know, I mean you made a comment about you not taken the hits another potentially come and it was. It really was, but there's some

then crazy about young men, and at that point my life. I was a kid live in a dream and I got blown out of the sky. My first tour, yes, I survived it and somehow, in my crew, he twisted mind. I couldn't wait to give back over on a second tour flank over attack helicopters by the way. So this is what happens once you get on the ground. If we go back to the book, then I was newly captured. I ran through the jungle. Forty five minutes, while my wing man put down suppressing fire. That earn me. The nickname, Lightfoot got plucked out of the go by near foresaw a copper from the Twentyth Special Operations squadron. Thailand called the call sign pony Express spent some time in the hospital there. Eventually I returned to the unit back to flight duties. This incredible. We lost Fifteen aeroplanes at that point out of eighteen the crew members shot down? Not many of them have recovered. I was one of the few lousy odds. I scared, then I'll tell you if you don't

scared and combat you're a liar or not only after a tense mission, is over Does the real fright com, it's time to sit and think you watch play out your mind and wonder how the hell you live through. Something like that. So again, we were talking before before we pressed record about the view about how protective it is of its aircraft right now I can even imagine guys had fifteen out of air eighteen airplanes at were shot down. That's that's insane and that was a sophisticated, expensive aircraft for the army at the time load. The mohawk was pretty much top of the line: technology army, aircraft and very yeah. That's that's a debt totally different mentality that than we have

totally different mentality and was a special unit. We had five Mohawk companies in Vietnam that time of them more for each of the four. A core tat goes zones inside of South Vietnam. They flew missions and supportive of those areas. We were there a company, the bastard company, full our way through by the The time we saw selfie anonymous, we're take US landings. Oliver allows or up off the coast of North Vietnam, and then I had one highly classified what I had to deploy down to constitute at Sagamore going to Cambodia I don't know what that was all about. It was really hush hush at the time that was in Advance of the year began. Cambodia incursion into the basis of the data fell up the mohawks for Vietnam, good it's in the inner resting aircraft, its side by side rain, its proper place Point twin turboprop has built purely for reconnaissance surveillance Grumman Grumman aircraft.

Biogas. When had but missiles on a Moroccan. Only put we put rendre Zuni missiles, Vibrio Iraq, as required by the machine guns that yeah that to my cobra experience, because I really that was my favorite mission- were the gun missions in the, not all of which are, but I like the gun missions when I came back my first tour, there was a spat between the army in the air force and the result of the spot was we had to take all the armament off them alive. So when I went back and talking to her, I wanted to go in a gunship, not something without a gun. So I've got me in a Culver's I get bureaucratic. It happening decisions like it back. It made that's really disturbing so right. Didn't hear your second tour right, animated jump, this peace here back the book in April fourteen we received a radio call that fire base. Charley was under attack by two regiments three thousand soldiers the three hundred and twenty infantry division and a hundred thirty million meter artillery shells were pounding the position, so you guys get.

This call this this from me bases being overrun basically and here. You show up on the sea now you'll find a cobra which, for those either don't know a cobra a gunship, as you just said, did stolen Service today, skinny space on a huge right, yeah and- very narrow, skinny space on a huge right yeah, it wasn't. The other Huey was designed, and I want to Vietnam and that most of us, Molly or the hearing the Huey took on a gun mission, though, that that Vietnam, we saw the utility of guns on aircraft the cobra, then was designed specifically and only as a gunship, and they took the Huey design narrowed down. Thirty six inches pilot in the actually co pilot gun on the front seat. Two points five rockets on the wing stores. Any gun and forty millimeter grenade larger and a movable nose turret, and there was one killing machine and it still appear

We brings giant smile to your face. When you talk about that which is lovely, I don't I don't seem to us. Did I mean I said at the time I was when I was a kid live in a dream, and I was but I do want to take away from the horror of combat, and it was scary is crap on every single mission, but there is still something about a young guy going to war at least a certain type of non guy and those that did when the two units I served in that yeah. We were dedicated what we did and I think we did a well I'm still smiling about who, like it so far, every guy brought in to this podcast the exact same attitudes, Europe, friends and mercury some go now. You guys are you guys? Are there? He shouted here with your Cobras Baxter, we made several passes on enemy guns, bullets stream, past our cockpits, as the envious gunners tried to bring us down rolling in on a fifty one position is always dicey. So this is a fifty one caliber, it's a disco, its

an entire aircraft washing and any actually had those when we were, they stand still had discus and they use them against us razors come at you and miss by a few feet. You try to get get on to him before he gets lucky and blast you out of the sky. We Small arms hits my knees vibrated like a sewing machine, but I focused on controlling the helicopter lining up the gun sites in shooting. I was scared. But had no time for it Dan radioed dusty, cyanide, Panther one three pattern: three be advised running low on fuel out of ammo were breaking station for real. Arm refuel, Roger one three foregone crews taken out good work, hurry back Do you re doing to the guy on the ground whose There is an american adviser on the ground with a bunch of Sal feed me soldiers, there being overrun. You come in your taken,

the fire but you're, giving back fire. You tone, hey, we gotta go and gets more ammunition. He said good job, hurry back. And when you do show up back the end, attack is now more. Intense and here the call that you get when you your backup Panther. That's you by the way Panther Pink Panthers is your. Is yours calcite, as your calls on his panther? Here's the call you get Panther the battalion commander is dead commander, wounded, enemy, broken through on the South West. Put it there first, then, all around us but real, Close so people. I don't understand what this means when you, on the ground, calling for fire. It's it's I've talked about a lot of At your side and blew on blue situations, I've I had him on my deportment and it It's a very scary thing. In its even scarier.

From the heir to the ground? Aids is hard for people to understand this when you're in aircraft, it's very to see what's happening on the ground? It can be very easy: get confused and so it or to bring fire very close to your position unless you are just in a terrible situation in Sudan you get a call that saying put the are all around us close is you can you know? This is a desperate scenario. And so I go back to the book right, you're dusty, we ve got him after of cobra attack, runs Duffy called Panther led. This is dusty cyanide. So that's the guy on the ground as his calls. I does he sign at you, Can the enemy attack for now hundreds bodies in the wire, maybe a thousand but cannot hold after a short break, he continued. We are leaving fire based Charlie. Now, stop them following us. Whatever it takes put your stuff

on top of the fire base. Now and again. This is something that the aid just. To explain what that means, if you don't understand what you never in the military to explain your calling for people to drop fire onto your own position, so that You can get away, it doesn't get any there's nothing, it doesn't get more intense, it does more dramatic- get me more sketchy than that right. There was one hell of a fight and joy. Joseph Duffy was Visor, the american Visor on the ground- and he is a true can hero Army special forces, Austria, those adviser duties, battle, the battle last for two weeks, the died. The climax of it was a couple days with that last night that is described in the book four hundred and seventy man south we enemies, airborne, paratroops battalion at the end of that fight the next morning,

the american visor John Joseph Duffy and thirty, six of the south. Vietnamese were raw that survived be picked up. When they got offer that far base and enjoy Virus wounded five times in wounded american adviser The absolutely and seventy a new European here and their wounded american adviser. They absolutely We want a new European here that your Duffy was recommended for medal of honor and they got the distant service cross for his actions. If you don't know what that is its, it's the second highest award underneath the battle of honor yeah in you actually talk about, possibly writing about that the deep. That's my that's my next project in doing this book and there's a there's, a statement at the beginning of the book, and I wrote this some forty years after I accept these actions and some things we're still perfectly clear my mind? Other things were a little bit hazy than I thought they would be when I put penned paper

the process of writing? I not only just done down in my mind and relived every experience as detailed as I could to get over the correct. I content, to those who were also involved in and the actions to get their versions of their view, their recollections to be sure I had this, is right, as I could John Joseph Duffy was one that I got ahold of major Duffy. I had never met him and never talked him since that battle until I was able to track him down with the wonders of modern communication of internet, and ensuring the details about that fight. He dropped a cup Hence he said you know somebody really ought to write the history of the battle of fire. This charter. This is one of the most extraordinary fights the entire Vietnam war. So I think it was after about the past a dozen times he said Uncle John I'll. Do it, so yes right now, I'm I'm working on doing my research and getting everything in order to to write the story of that battle in more detail than I give on my. What couple of pages are in my book,

that's one of the most? The most interesting things for me about doing this podcasting weird again, nothing we're talking about us, so many you know I don't know about that battle at I'm. A pretty decent student of Terry history, I don't know about that battle and didn't know bout, major John Duffy- I absolutely should in we all should any. What you realise is that battle that man. We will never be held to account for all these heroes. No, you just can't do it so again, This is fast forwarding a little bit through the book in and by the I did mention name of the book. It, though, the name of the book is through the valley, my captivity in Vietnam by William Reader and get this book. So at this point I am jump,

I had a little bit too. A situation where you ve got in I'll go to the book tanks in the wire at Poli cling, launch now and call me en route for them your freak hawks claw will get up later be covering him to you tail numbers, euro, five, three and six eight to go so that right, there is- something that is happening, and gotta go now and what was interesting now I'll point this out for a guy, and people had aren't the military by the way lot of guys it lists of this are in the military, lot alone, Foresman, but there's a lot of civilians that don't know everything that I'm talking about that word that you're talking about. So what like about this. Is that what you're too what they're telling the car. The deal is

launch Eurocopter GO, get an aircraft and launch and start heading in that direction? We'll give you were frequency when you get up there will tell you what's gonna happen once you get up there, but go so again. This is in. And extremism what we would do. That would be some order. This it in this teams as we would go on cure, F, quick reaction forces where they would come their did happen to me with a carpenter- hey some what's going on here at this location, go and I'd say who's we don't know, yet any freedom What's what radio frequency are we don't know yet will get it to launch? We get our vehicles watch well at the situation and rude and then, when you lay eyes on when you get there and start talking to evokes exactly back to them, I stopped a small emergency radio into one of the pockets of my survival vest note. To perform the normal check on the radio I had to include that there is a less were there. I had to include that. It's you know.

The radio will always work if you test it. At best it is the one time that's lesson. Check, all your survival gear be and ordered, regardless of how hot that mission is now, you're having to a place called Ben Head, I'm going to the book had it been hat as we crossed the last ridge line entire valley before us was filled with smoke. Tracers streamed outward from defensive positions inside the camp and tracers replied from outside to jet fight. Has bombed next to the camp, Enviers Rockets artillery and mortars exploded in the camp enemy. Take breached the perimeter one inside and poor way up the hill look like it had been killed already, I couldn't be sure an easy one. Thirty on airforce force, one thirty spectre: gunship was leaving heat.

The area over with twenty Millimeter Vulcan Gatling guns and forty millimeter canning, cannons, prom, we hitting the tank Enemy Infantry move through openings in the jungle canopy. I could see assembling to join the attack there was It was one heck of a heck of a battle. This whole situation were getting too in the book occurred during the Easter fancy of nineteen. Seventy two When I arrive back in Vietnam, then two hundred and seventy one it seemed like the war was over. In fact, I was afraid that maybe I'd missed my chance for combat in a cobra, because things were so quiet. Many american that most american forces about withdrawn in the central part of it. The central highlands roused operating. There were no american ground forces left at all. Just some special forces eyes, army aviation, unison and smear fortuitous. That was it. How that

phase? Is we got into the spring of nineteen? Seventy two because the enemy had been building up their divisions across the border and allows in Cambodia, and in the spring of do they launched an attack from the democracies zone and attack gambling, toward Saigon and then, finally, all attacks across the central highlands where we were there were a lot of enemy. This day had been hat. Courses is gonna turn into the they take the day there were getting to hear but yet elements of to north vietnamese divisions with artillery with anti aircraft weapons, galore author with armor, going into the The cap, and there we showed up with our took over, is to do do what we can live with that period was on the twenty. Fourth, as this is a night the May, on the twenty fourth of April, the enemy attack, the the twenty second what the fuck is. This is a night the May on the twenty fourth of pull the enemy attack the year, the twenty second Aravind, that's army, Vietnam Division headquarters of TAT can, which is a little bit further to the east, from been hit us on the twenty fourth of April. They attack

can't cannon and defeated and overran that NBA division with a number of tax. So that was the first time I saw tanks in battle Then we come out of the night, the main I'm saying, tanks again hold of her body, For the guys on the ground- yes, he did this Guerrilla war suddenly turned into a very conventional war. Fighting You don't northward amazed divisions now, but once again you, you had some time on station, you did a bunch of shooting and running gone and you had to go back to reload refuel and I'm going back the book now on our way back to Ben. Had we could see the battle continuing at polite to Polly, clinically clang view these air force, a one sky, raiders Dove, dropping bombs. We pass close enough to see one as it trailed, smokin flame and went into the ground and awful explosion. I saw parachute and made a call came over. The radio emerges. Radio frequency I called heads,

to tell them. I was diverting for a few minutes to help cover the downed v and after serving enemies, airforce pilot, negative pair three ex permission denied procedure. To bend hat out. You try to in same results, so you saw with it are safe for you to me. Air force pilot, get shot down right and you call back to base diameter go cover for this guy when they try to rescue men. They tell you know right now. So you do what you're told here Decision Academy, there's pluses minuses, the other guys on the ground have been held in serious trouble, then help or to vietnamese Ranger battalions, so probably four or five hundred people at the most by four four, people on the ground, a ban hat with two american eyes to America, the ground they are under attack by elements

to north vietnamese divisions, which means thousands of industry with the tax Sartori, everything attack and so yeah. They wanted and dire store. Though, I really hope Wicked briefly stop over and help get this Vienna the enemies or force pilot victim yeah. No, that's a tough decision for Command maybe but free from my position. I look at it like here. The command has a better overall view. The battlefield right now tell me to proceed on. The bed had got it even though you we see as a pilot. You have a little good, I'm glad you Heather perspective, because I didn't have that at the time. It also was easy for me. Right now said in an air conditioned space with my head on much in Vietnam and and warfare is different today, and I think things were probably more planned out there and you go to a according to a set of. Rules and procedures more than we did. So many of these combat missions with cobras in Vietnam and that day and age we would get launched out of our base and we do not make contact.

People on it was very much up to the point Commander the emotion commander decide where he would go and how he would support what was the hottest fire in town at that needed, help so we always- and some of it was just like us, our pompous attitude to we always well. We had a better handle on what was happening than the guys in the headquarters of made some of those decisions. In fact, when we first saw tat, in the area before that ballot tat can on the twenty fourth of April, we saw TAT, reported them back through headquarters, and there was a great deal of reluctance, So the poor of anybody headquarters staff to believe that there were tanks the guy that if this is another interesting situation at Vietnam in that time, the scene commander and two core that area that I was operating in was not a military guy, there was a civilian named John Paul Van and Mr Van made all the decisions that keep things legal here to store Army general officer working for him so often

Terry orders came through the army general, but Mr Van was making the decisions and when we reported we had seen tanks in MID Mid April France and there's not tax that I fly out there all the time of their tax. I do see enemy, so what you guys are probably elephants in the jungle. So that's that's what we dealt with with which our headquarters. That's interesting there definitely was written. When I was in Iraq. There is very tight control over air to ground support. Is Firstly, in the cities and remedy is very difficult to get drop bombs dropped, but you who had really good decent. Wise command was the tanks in the tanks that we work with they would they will when they had pretty good control of what you are talking. The tank commander, at least at the company command level. We have company commanders, that would just get after it and they would make stuff happens? We felt really comfortable working with attackers and in

they supported us over and over and over again really like said with a lotta decentralized command. You know they couldn't daddy you some, they obviously use discretion, but they have a lot of authority out there, which was what greater, which we did as well, which was really get so area. You left me I'm going back from wood, rearm, refuel, decanter, we're heading back up were denied permission to deviate over to Polly Clang, and when we get back to have been at one more time Now, what you're doing when I'm we're gonna pick the story. Back up here. There's a Huey! That's got resupply, so he's got. You know, bullets problem, bullets watered food. Maybe at this point just bullets and they need to get that gear, down to the guys on the ground right, the guys on the ground. The base had been pretty much completely overrun, the friendly so consolidated at a command bunker, complex or defensive, Dugan positions at the top of the hill, which was their fire base They were when we got the call to cover that Huey we were told

but the guys on the ground were completely out of anti tank ammo and were almost small arms ammunition, and could we cover this union for the reply? So here we go back to the book the huge came into a low hover near the command bunker. The crew kicked out there, boxes. The helicopter hovering turn and took off I began. A sharp left turns like continue. Shooting suppressor fire for him. The enemy opened up on our to cope. With everything they had. My view left right and above and below was filled with tracers TIM continuously and TIM was you're, TIM was. Tim was my front cedar my Copilot Gunnar in the front seat. Working that knows her. While I was firing Rockets TIM, continuously on those firing at us. We took large caliber hits all over the aircraft The ones like I talked about and fourteen point I've millimeter round came through the cockpit It's from small arms always felt something like Jiffy pop popcorn popping again

Its tinfoil cover these. Like jackhammers slamming into the aircraft beginning in the rear, working, the side and then into the cockpit the tale, Roeder were shot off and the engine was shot up every system on the helicopter was damaged in some way without the tale Roeder the aircraft began to spit, Few lines ruptured and we were burning. I keep the microphone this three six, taking far from four o clock, taking fire everywhere, taking fire taking hits going down Panther going down the engine, quit Motor R p M caution, light flashed. The audio warning sounded announcing that my rollerblades were turning dangerously swell, I say the collective down hard to auto rotate under two more conditions. This is a controlled emergency descent under these conditions, only hope to lessen the severity of the crash. We corkscrewed flames as I wrestled be aircraft. I really

but my wing man flame, you get in here and get us out quick. There was no answer, they were waiting for their lives. I look. Years later that, when I called taking hits flame had begged his coat, bread fired rockets onto the position shooting at me as did so a big ugly. Fifty one round came through the cockpit and torn to his chest, high on the left side. Bob controls and headed for help flying from the front seat. Mike. We're came down spinning and burning, the ground hard. Knows low. On the left side it bounced. Back into the air spun another turn and a half and crashed settled nearly upright firing gulf, the cockpit. So pilots are known

For maintaining their composure right- and I have heard pilot to do it in and clear, You know, you're saying we're taking heads were taken. Fire from everywhere were going down, Panther going down. Are you so tracking on control aircraft that you you just complete we focused on that that the restive what's happening is a little bit blocked out or what Are you kidding yourself? I gotta survived this crash. Are you not worried about the fact that when you get on the ground, hey now to be surrounded by enemy. Your none of those thoughts hurt or taking place as I said earlier thing that you read everyone who is not totally insane is, is scared and combat, off times that feared comes about after the missions over at the end of the day, when you think back on, which had been through that day. Thank goodness, we get a drink

a holiday Vietnam, the amount of how people survive and ward error. I don't we got drunk every single night and then went back out the next day and did it again as others, at the end of the day. There is also fear and terror the nation to agree when you first going like the one I described, camera cross, he'll, see with a battle of been had look like tracer stuff all over the place on when you get butterflies, your stomach in your anxious, but once you going on that mission and start those gun runs its others. There is theirs. Time, there's no metal space for any that other thought. There's no mental space for that fear. You just focus on what you have to do and you do it in the pool, we just radegund shot down, though still I mean all these years later. I'm said here with a red emotional flushed. My face reliving this yet one more time but no, I don't. I don't recall thinking of anything in those moments but doing that mission controlling that aircraft dealing with that emergency situations best I couldn't and going through the whole process.

The thought of life am I gonna, make it or not make it any. None of that was even arrows. It's you do what you have to do and and get it done, and then, when it all settled down and then TAT spun Well then, crash smoke flames everywhere. The thing begins. Exploding then even then there is not time for that fear factor then, because any start dealing with ok what I do not acted survivors and get out of her answer crafts on fire, and I guess you're not round pondering much when your aircraft on fired you're stuck in their try to get out you why you get now by the way I did so you you get out. You make it away from the bird a little bit and you you end up

getting some distance away. You lot, you lost your wing man right or is. Are you lost your mind? My way, man took the fifty one hearing as it took us. If you know but TIM He got out of the aircraft to and took off in another. Actually, my phronsie TIM country in a cobra that there's two canopies one for the Phronsie one for the back. The frenzy Canopy opens to the left. The backseat canopy opens to the right. So we we hit. We had our intercom conversation. I said Let's get out of this thing, that's it that's good enough for any any Roger that call and and then he got out his way I got up by way of you had a little vignette of what happened when I was hanging upside down at the aircraft me I didn't. I was moving on to Martin drew her the idea adviser on the ground there go ahead if, if you

yeah inside band had one of the american advisers Mark Treuhand watched us get shot down a crash. He saw TIM exit, the aircraft. He saw me hanging out of sight of the cobra head down with my feet, stuck in the cockpit the helicopter burning, heeds in a truck driver die in agony and a blazing semi wreck years before and it scorn He would not let that happen again. He is the sight of his m16 rifle to my body as he began. And to squeeze the trigger to put me out of my misery, cloud of smoke, billowed from the exploding aircraft, it scared me from his view when the smoke cleared. I was gone. And that's something that you found out years later. He got in touch with me. I gotta be caught dead man and said. I think it was a letter

and said I was one of the visors on the ground at Ben Hill when he got shot down. I can give you some information about what happened if you'd like to hear. If you don't, I understand if it, if you just don't want to even go there, tell me what you know. So he shared that story with me. Unbelievable, so I'm going back the book, your ear, is the state Europe, the pain in my back was intense. It was broken. The fight burn the back of my neck. I lesser burns in my face, my hair with singed I'd pulled El fragment out of my ankle superficial lacerations covered my face and forehead deleting badly. I was a mess but I was motivated. I wanted to get away. I staggered from the crash item headed southeast towards quantum can't to consume. It was getting dark. I had not On far when I heard helicopter is approaching. Co came in low shooting and add your little strobe and so

we go. I held the light over my head pointed toward the aircraft. It flashed a few times Gunnar in the lead cobra opened up on me with as many gun a stream tracers came right at me, which is this something we learned in Iraq as well when you fire off strobe. If someone is expecting arisen, looking for it, it just looks like me: or flashing anybody that sees it we'll shoot at it. A blue covers. We put on supposedly changed the color of its. I wouldn't look like enemy fire. Without a fact, I ran into that different cedar, their open up, I'm a years later, Bentley Hill and eighty surety, Syria, we rather flyin admission that sure look like enemy fires or about them so Erica the book. It does you a little bit about your attitude. I was capture renewing survive this. It was me I boy scout, though I was one of the trouble makers in my troop I've learned a lot. I backpack sixty five

miles through the mountains in five days. In practice, revival skills, my troubled you ve, got me suspended from school a number of times, but it all so tell me lessons. I learned the street fight take care of myself. I had boxed play football and run track. I made it in forestry worked cattle branches Road Bronx. In small rodeos fought forest fires worked construction and was an electrical linemen for supper. California, Edison. I remembered a little did he. My mother had taught me the Lord helps those who helped themselves. I knew could depend on it. Absolute truth to get me through this, the Lord. How helps those who help themselves? God I'll do that do, all I can muster, bit of what's inside me I'll, do my part I'll, do all. I can to help myself so please Please do you course. I need your help.

I said it again to myself drawn comfort and strict The Lord helps those who help themselves out. Heated often has I set my mind to doing all. I must to survive. This is this is interesting going through this and all this detail again, because what I want, I wrote the book I had to revisit everything in. Detail like I had not done since it happened to me. I had never gone to this depth of reliving those experiences yeah. It's tough to think back on that Indeed, when I was writing this I'd sure some of the right you with my wife and I come to bed late at night and after I get a few chapters into this, I told her when I said Molly. What am what am I doing? This whole thing is a series of unfortunate events. Who's gonna want to read something like this and she

was a bill. I know the whole story. She said stick with. It finishes book because I think that in it there is there inspiration, there's motivation for four people: it's not just your story if it can help others, and so in that when I say that, because it is getting a little emotional, we reduce that's fine, but I We hope that some of this is useful, unhelpful for others and there I grew up going. Church as a kid, but I wasn't overly overly religious guy and somewhere around college I quit going to church altogether and in the army. The only time I can remember that I've been going to church was for memorial services, for you guys, and that was about it. But if you end in a situation like this or I would say any really of. If you think the situation, your life is stressful and is about to overwhelm you, you need some help beyond yourself

no matter what it I'm not selling any religion, but I would say whatever your religious beliefs are. You can find a lot of strength in and your God and get get close to. And he ll help you through it. We certainly, I could not done this by myself. I grabbed all that duty that my mom gave me. Read all the twenty third Simon. What stuff got really close to ban to Smithereens a few times while you're. My of that point SAM was not over and over again to my mind to so yeah that selling any religion, but whatever your spirituality, as you best get comfortable the worth of european going dire straits like this in its its. It's interesting that you're you're say look on and do everything I can but am needs melt, and you know certainly you know when you when you say that other people, you know we'll be able to find. Absolutely I mean just me, read this. I found all kinds of not just.

Inspiration but practical guidance, which you know, one of the things you just said is practical guidance on someone else. Been through what you ve been through. There's so much that everybody else take away and learn from and beyond That's one of em right there do you can do everything that you can then have some faith on the things that you Can't control are gonna work out your way. You gonna think that's important tourism, He knows we're talking and I don't know if we going to get to that specific part in an in the book or not but her well. One thing was the first night I get be. Fifty two strikes almost landing on top of me and I'm beginning to feel What am I going to survive this or not? And I think the answer is I don't know But in that answers I dont know, and so what I mean that that, doesn't matter, that's not import. I may survive a may, not survive. I meant to do all I can to survive, So I got to the point where this fear.

Being blown to smithereens, kind of went away, I just settled into Ali either survivor won't survive, but I can't worry about that. All I can worry about is what can I do to trial and set the best conditions to make that survival password. The war. I won't be ordered a similar thing that I was felt. Was you don't I One of the biggest threats to us was ideas and the EU. Their random there, hit, you were there, not gonna hit you and when, every time you go outside the wire theirs There is a chance that it's your day and you know kind of what I told my guys in the way I felt myself was ok, no they're out there. We ve on everything we can to mitigate the risk? We ve done. Our planning we done our drills, we gathered intelligence. There's nothing else we can do to control. It saw I'm not to worry about it and I've done

I can but, like you said, of of help them at myself as much they can and then after that it's out of my hands in them org. You worry about it. If, like you said, but does it does really matter. I consider your worry about it, but doesn't matter got it gotta move forward exactly here's you. You do a couple days three days worth of evasion of the enemy and now you're out. Hiding you here voices, you crowded your hide. You know their people, and here we go back book a lotta crashing around came from the direction of the voices I looked up and saw uniformed envious soldiers pointing eighteen, forty, seven rifles at my head shriek? Something emotion for me to stand up. I did. I was captured hope, indescribably sick in the pit of my stomach as the world, fell away. I've been struggling for three, to stay alive. I was

miserable shape, but I had been free and I had options. No more. My soul was awash with anguish. I was no or a free man in that it didn't I become a captive of Communist North vietnamese Army, a prisoner of war, another American P W and the long Vietnam conflict. I had no idea how long they might let me live, or if I was about to die. A couple of them were shaking we stood in order silence for a moment they glared at me. I glared at them? For that tents, instant, I didn't know if I'd be riddled with bullets or be allowed to live one barked, something at me. I could not understand another job Indian, then a third I looked

right into their eyes. I was an American, I would show them the best american fighting man that I could in the pitiful state that I was in it that's the best. I could do describing captured it. It's it's impossible to really convey the full feeling of losing your freedom and being a captive. It's just indescribable, but I did that the best that. I could. I was miserable shaven when you read about the wounds that I had, Those I picked up some leeches that I've been pluck and offer my body my by face was covered with blood, three day growth, a heavy beer was was sticking through because of my back injuries that I didn't even know like release that I had badly broken my back,

Control of my bowels were bladder for those three days I smelled. I was just an awful mess when those guys captured men took me up at him, they finally get you to sort of like a camp saw the first interrogation. Every word that I mean the capture made the jungle so that they were only a few yards away when I stumbled upon them in and then they and they I've been down to the stream feeling canteens. These five young guys are captured me and they took me almost an equal distant up. The hill opposite and I came into a open area, still have the canopy of the triple canopy but the bottom was all opener. Hundreds of north vietnamese soldiers supplies defensive positions. Was a major staging area for this ballot was taking place, as I was to get away from the battle and get towards can't? Do my stumble right into their stayed here and you start getting

concerted and soft interrogation is, when I put down here guy says You know we found pictures of a pretty later lady with your children, your wallet, obviously your family and you say yeah, I know you miss them and are very worried and they are very worried about you. You follow the rules and you will be home soon. You'll receive humane and lenient treatment. You will be allowed to go home and I put that in their cause. That's a refrain that we hear quite bit humane and leaning batteries. That was a refrain. They would say it all the time and during the whole captivity you you do you do what you're supposed to do and cooperate. You get the humanely new treatment a course. You work fully coercion. At all with them and what they are asking you so there there from that idea so they start stepping up on you, and you know here is an example of the things that they said you. You are a war, criminal and the Geneva in Geneva

agreements do not apply to you. You have no rights, but we will see give you the deserved humane and lenient treatment. All I have to do, is cooperate with us and acknowledge your crime. Snip It goes back. Your reading of the code of conduct that started this off to our code of conduct was different, we are. We are bound to give only our name rank Service number data birth and in the end, the way that was taught in the way we understood that that was all we could give was name rank service number date of birth, and if we gave anything else we had, we had caved in and we're cooperating with the enemy So that was my stance that was all I was going to give them was my name rank Service number data birth get into some of the things that they took place. I would just like to comment that there is not, heroic going on all I guess a couple things were going on. I was trying to abide by the code of conduct

and I was in a state where I had been near. Death for days was very near death. At that moment and was numb and and just almost didn't care. It's hard to, understandably, but almost didn't care at. That point then I get so angry aggravated. The son of a bitch that ended up in my interrogator from his Social soft cell is, you said, but but his first words he showed up his own guys spoken English, since I was captured or ask me about myself by condition. But what if I was hurt- and so I open, with them about some of that. But then, when he got into what was clearly an interrogation, then I climbed up I would close these comments now with the fact that he didn't break me and that interrogation speaks nothing to my heroism or ability to resist interrogation. Anyone can be broken and if this would have continued overtime, that you know that I'm I'm sure that he could have got me to do something with his brutality, probably not

would have given many useful intelligence, but he might get made a due to do something. So I was for that for that Those moments of those days with initial interrogation. I was what they able to stick with my name rank service. Our data were awesome, here is an example of that is back. The book, here please sign this. He had me one of the sheets of paper and a pen. I looked at the paper. It was typed in English. Began to read. The words by it interrupted. This is simply a form that acknowledges your status. We need its weak. Begin to process you for release, so we and send word to your family of your status. Please just signed. I read the words. Not believe what I was reading. There was a blank A place for me to fill in my name, the text that I was an american war criminals who had been conduct illegal acts against the vietnamese people included bio side, genocide and eco side I had dropped.

I or bombs and chemical bombs. I'd killed old men, pregnant women and babies, bio side, genocide, eco side, what a bunch of crap I raised my head and looked into his eyes. No, will not sign this. There I had spoken. You must, I will not his agitation return. Now you must, I glared at him I got up and came at me. He smack me across the face. You must turned to his side. Kickin spoke quietly and the man got up at his direction. Guards drag me up against a tree abroad. Trunk of a tree, I've been bent over since the crash unable to stand erect. They forced me up into a straight sitting position and tied me to the tree it hurt like hell. I couldn't keep my feet. From contorting in anguish. Now you sign no more orders. They pulled on the robes to bring my arms closer together behind me, the pain in my

back: increased You pain was introduced in my shoulder joints more damage. And to more refusals the ropes tightened further They moved my elbows closer together. More demands, more refusals ropes, ever tighter more pain. I was uncontrollably, grimacing and cursing. I would Not sign, I could ever consider signing anything like that brutality made me angrier and more firmly set against giving in. I could have broken and made the sign eventually. There's. No doubt no man and can resist forever, but this interrogator would not bring me to breaking point on that day. His demands continued and so my refusals the ropes tight, more and more pain, scream through me. My anger swelled against this asshole. I began grunt inaudible attack against the agony. The guards gave

the ropes one, huge last pool which brought my elbows together behind me. I felt a pop as each shoulder dislocated page through my torso up my neck, into my head and down my back my drawing and into my files. I've never felt such pain, my vision, narrowed and I nearly passed out side. I could only grown and shake my head the interrogators scowled, angrily, turned and left me to continue on. This is

A little bit further on, then he saying that these, given you one last chance to sign this paper and one last chance to cooperate. Will you go back to the book now. My head hung down partly inexhausted, partly an intentional rudeness, not paying in him any attention. I looked up when finished. I saw his sadistic minion standing a few yards in front of me holding in eighteen, forty seven at the ready you. Last chance. Assistant, raise the rifle and pointed at me. I stared ahead and said nothing No heroism was involved. I was wrung out the end of everything I had to give I've been so close to them for so long with angry and so absolutely drained. Faint spark was all I had left. I felt Numb Data

from what was happening not resisting. I was just give into the flow of whatever was destined to be that might be death. It might not I'd seen army training film at our meeting. Film years before, showing the mock execution of a korean war, peel w Remember that seen the action of the trigger pulled went over and over in my mind, click click click bad. I flinch. Does a soldier jerked the trigger back, but nothing happened, no shot! No loud. Bang, no bullet ripping my scholar chest. Nothing!

The soldier laughed my interrogator smiled. I am done with you. You will be taken away from here. That was three days of this three horrible days, losing my freedom going through Interrogation being thrown down into a pit night is where I stated

are there old, abandoned bunkers at about six inches of mud and grew in the bottom end, and that cause me big psychological issued at first night clothes in the darkness. That night, I really had to fight to just keep my cool down there with a bunch of there were centipedes spiders rats and it was, it was a mess I spend the night down. There come up in the daytime for interrogation back down that whole nights, backup retaliation. So what we read covered a prey to three days before he finally gave up on me. The I'd I had no idea what was going to happen. I just end even thinking back on. It is going through all that very much and just a numb state with with with that treatment,

yeah. My shoulders today still cause me problems. I had a son that ended up playing football for University of Washington many years ago. He's going to turn fifty here in April says. The number here is go beyond high school, like I throw that two passes, that was it for my shoulders. Can't play can't play horses you know, so it's something that definitely I've experienced Do these readings and knocked about it before You know when I read something in my head and a kind of I go. That's that's power but then, when you read it aloud, when you hear it, it's it's even more of the same thing with no. I know I sent you Jody medics. The pot gathered Jody Mademoiselle India and he said the same thing you know he said to me said: you know when you're reading it. It's like

it's like I'm here in my own thoughts or something you know it's just I just it brought it back and. Yeah, there's something there's something about that. It's ok, It's like winced, when it's when you reading it it sorted detached from real. Quality origin, one step further, detached from reality and an obviously sitting with Jody sitting here with you and in knowing that this is? U you want with that. I make all the time when I cover these historical books? I always remind people that cause guilty both in this day and age, were used to see movies were used to see watching tv. And I would say that this guy that I'm talking about is the person you know Guy World WAR. You is a person this guy World WAR, one. This is a man and so to have you sitting here knowing This is: u it's! It's I don't even know what to say to describe

Jack Odin and this this has become an emotional experience for me, but it's important and I think this is going to be an important pod cast. I wrote that book. I finished it. It was published last April. I'm not read that book since published. I mean it was something to go through and relieve all that to get a written end, and so it's been almost a year I haven't read: the books are worth going under and end the detail, but this is. This is good, so Do you get turned over to some other similar? guards bright and they start taking. You gonna walk me you're, walking somewhere else, And you know you talked about the conditioned by the way you have a broken move cross vertebrate this point riots or babbling. Badly broken back one verbose were completely gross damaged.

Two other part of your leg, swollen and you got all kinds issue and now you're not gonna, walk in. Go I would know that yeah they gave me my boots back after those three days were interrogation. No sacks, no laces boots bare feet. We ETA old Vietnam Seal when I got the seal team one in ninety ninety. And he would run barefoot all the time, and you know one day was hey, hey, Sir, why you why you run barefoot This is the first thing the goose do. Take your shoes, gotta have our feet Guess I'm gonna barefoot. Now I was thinking because what shut up. It's you'll. Do one always joke about this. I thought I was going to Vietnam WAR. Ninety ninety one, when I got there, I thought I'd mom go to Vietnam. Now you got that now you are, but I was a little off directly. So

That's a situation here and go back to the book. They ve been seen a phrase, sir, your marching with these guys. They been a phrase for the past few days that I couldn't understand. I thought it was vietnamese dockworkers die we pushed up the road. They walked behind me poking the rifle barrels into my kidneys, my ribs shouting. Increasing urgency, go look. I got a in the and after a while for the first I understood what they were saying: go quick or die I've been taught one short phrase in English. All they knew and they'd pronounced it so poorly that it took me to day. To figure it out. Moved as fast as I could, but I was at the end of everything I had, I struggled on I'm just notice in this. You're going to reach the end of everything you had Let me you already. Were there many tons, you're gonna reached again you just reached it. It's it's

random, had some amazing thing about human beings. What we have inside the wicked dig down and grab a hold of when we have to that. We don't think we ever could have done it, but it's there. Can hear something that helped you back. The book I found myself meant we reciting what I could recall of the twenty third song the third som came to my lips, yet though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death. I will fear no evil for Thou art with me. That wasn't the only time, during my captivity that the twenty third som came to my lips. No, after. And please forgive me for like

already cover three days of misery. Now we're talking about and I'm doing it in three minutes. Now. You ve walked from multiple days suffering the whole time and I'm gonna fast forward through it. It sorry in That's why I mean that's why people there d be replaced by a hundred dollar so you arrive at a camp. Now we arrived back we stopped in front of one page in the door opened a guard pushed me and my stumbled over someone lying inside and fell tumbling into the ground pain shot through me, the cage about twelve feet wide and twenty four. Or so long could not have been more than four feet high twenty six. Prisoners were stuffed inside all south free me soldiers heat. In a cage, heavy and steal the air smelled of filth and putrid wounds. People moaned and constant dough rumble

the occasional whale was met with sharp shush and guard guarded whispers. The doorway, was shot and secured I lay there thankful survived the journey of the past three days. What would become of me now that was my first, that was my first prison camp. The jungle camp it was in the jungle figure somewhere, northern Cambodia, where the? U S was not ready anymore, was a cap of many cages about three hundred prisoners, nightcap all south vietnamese- that capture this offensive one other the American would meet later put one of those gauges back. Book my broken back screamed every time I try to lay down to try to lie down with my feet in the stocks, so they put it feed in the stocks wooden bamboo stocks. There was no way

lay on my side. I couldn't lay straight back, so I sat upright in the dark in agony. I thought of my family thought of my day of I'd been where I was now and what might lie ahead. I heard badly still, I had hope I can live this way. I can do I can survive, I will survive. I sat there. Faults lifting across the landscape of my life shaped by these extraordinary circumstances. Eventually, fell asleep, sitting up right. That night dream. Of what might become of me. I jolted awake something's airport across my legs. Something was on I feel something small cool and wet touched. My arches and souls little rat noses. Pope did sniffed at my feet. Tiny too, if not my pulverized raw flesh,

my arm swung without commanders batted a large round. Off my lap, others, hurried away, I screamed inside lips press tightly shot a muffled shriek of terror. I thrashed my legs flailed, but went nowhere. I wiggled my. Feet as well as I could in the socks and got there. Hats off. They fly into the night only were to return when I fell back asleep, they would return, The torment me new. Every night in that jungle parisian. I dont like rats this day, some of my kids just mess with mail, does bring up rats or lament rats. I hate rats from from that experience, and that's not the beginning or the end of the rat experiences and in prison One thing you did mention, though, that I'd like to highlight is is hope,

There is a phrase in there that I wasn't going to give up. Hope hope is such a powerful thing is there for all of us. We just It a grab a hold of it and hold it tightly. Hole was all I had for much of my time in captivity, hope of of of surviving and in that survival of getting back to my two young kids. Those two kids really played such a role and having may survive. My son when I went over, there was four and a half years old. The lower for my daughter was newborn, but when things are good, really really tough, I think of those kids and how Rebecca was I had to endure it to do my best to survive and get home to those kids Yeah that I definitely that's one of the things I specifically highlighted you know was, I can

this way. I can do this, I can survive, I will survive. I still I had hope in, I read it just the way you just explained it hit me that hard back to the boy, We sat for a few more hours. My cage meets all the enemy. Soldiers appeared a ragtag crew. Almost everyone had been wounded. Some gravely filth cover their tattered uniforms, the whole place. Stock of sweat blood infection feces in Europe. We were all hurting and some would die. Some cautiously whispered to their neighbour most. Like me, just and stared that's what I did. I sat stared at them sitting and staring at nothing. I want If I would go crazy here, would die here. What would happen first insanity or death, I snapped back to what

we'll grasped by had on reality, hold it together. Focus spent in Vicki, we'll hike will way, get back home for those kids, you can do it. You can endure. I couldn't allow my thoughts to drift in dark directions. I feel First myself into logical, structured thinking, I began a hiking trip with my family, a Bactra backing trip into the woods, I plan the route, the equipped it loads for each day be featherweight for Vicki, a little more for spent and Amy I'd carry most of it. We d d I dreaded food around a small, campfire, delicious What are you dehydrated food then sell awfully? Is that was a good meal and- and I did that I got

from my captivity, spent some and maybe go to this later and I won't get all the details of hospitalization metabolic, but when I got release The hospital finally took my I'm on vacation, guesses. On what the first thing I did on vacation tell me draw the Olympic Peninsula, and my family backpacking your hard man. I love glad that I did. I'm always enjoyed the wilderness in the woods and would have been much worse shape in captivity. If I, if I hadn't, but since then, I love the woman said the words even more. I mean I love every day, every beautiful day on gods, rain earth, love the wilderness in the woods where side of Panama for a time I don't know if you've been down there at Connellsville and when one thing might my older son a little four and a half year old boy was it was an adult by then we backpack when we

three days journey across Europe as a Panama somewhere, where nobody ever did. We just pick some place one from the Atlantic, Sir, the pacific side. We did mountain, I first then we backpack stand in the jungle until it. After the real Indio and it was dry, she's winter planet very well, cuz. We had to hike way down the Rio Indio for the of water to hire a guy in a car. Yoga canoe to take us out of the ocean even now, just before retirement, but I've always loved the wilderness, love the jungle I don't know how we got on that thing, but, okay back back in the book. Well, that's awesome in one of the things that I again, I specifically highlighted was the fact that you know you would be drifting in these dark directions and you'd force yourself, and I talk that too. You know I'd, I say mind, control, not mind. Control like hey we're, gonna control your mind, but control your own mind and put your own thoughts in there. You can do that

people just need to learn how to do instead of what you start drifted off in the wrong direction from control. Your thoughts get mind control and I love the fact that you did that with such with such. Authority in power over what of what your brain was thinking the I think that in a port messages are much overused phrase. Are you have glass half empty or glass, half full gonna? Guy I really would advocate, for you- have to be a glass half full kind of guy too survive and I think the argument further view. Gonna have a happy full, enjoyable life. You damn well, better, be a half Glassfuls caught a person. I mean there's enough problems and difficulties in life. If you want to go for the dark side, it it's it's there, you can go to it, but there's enough positive, wonderful things the de grab that beat of hope and and go for it. Absolutely

back into the care. But back through the book, the care provided a miserable existence on the edge of madness all was and disease and suffering moans in Wales of pain and anguish. Cried from the enclosures as we walked by I caught a glimpse, is of sick and wounded man inside cage after cage their eyes, white orbs of desperation, peering grimy faces through the din of the grey world inside. Now you're back in the stocks sitting there wounded in stocks in a bamboo cage in an unknown jungle prison camp with death. All around me, I begin to wonder how long Can I endure this my voice said out loud as law. Long as it takes incredible. In here you meet there.

In this perspective you meet. Wait, wait, wait fetched the other American who sell prisoner even captured, marching for many months before me and you weighing the crew. Now you again the report on a long march. They say: remove you out of this prison camp. Do you know you're gonna, wait, there's, no, no, that they they put me. They pull me my cage, and I found myself in the center of the cap with a group of twenty five south vietnamese prisoners. Think they're. All they were all officers I myself and win they told us they were going to move to a new cap and ended in commerce. Cap commandos, run out of the mouth. One of the south in disasters was translating forest they're gonna, move to a new cap, workin. Since we believe it would be better. I mean in this camp were dying almost every day with conditions How do we get medical care would get letters from home, but we are very difficult journey. It could last for as long as eleven days, and we should try

very hard to make it that's what we were told now the driver part of that eleven days, I guess was registering whereby the try very hard to make road and fully register until we you set up marching This time my ankle wound was very infected. My leg was very swollen. It was so painful just to take a step, and yet I was having to take step after step after step and, as I got into that march, I was wondering how I was going to get through the first day. I didn't think I could do it. I didn't know how I could possibly walk for for a day through the jungle they year they had tied loosely together. Had our arms titles divide our backs no shoes ass time. This was barefoot and off we want somehow I made it through that first day and the day after that and the day after that, the trip turn out to be not eleven days to a new camp somewhere in Cambodia or even Laos, or back in a bit on that trip took over three months, and I did end up in Hanoi at the end of that trip that jerk,

cost the lives of six of the south vietnamese prisoners in in the other American died before we got to annoy, and I damn near died of number times that stall in the book, but by the grace of God, I survived in and made it and got all the way he also. Got to know some of the vietnamese subsidy me. Soldiers are one of EM lieutenant when been Zan That's very good son. San Sun and you Obviously you found a really good relationship with him. Yes, here we go back but we try to resolve it and how does it wont? Let me reject one thing: Cosette. This is fascinating to meet to me. It's always been. Why are well

come back to. Let me see where you gonna go with Congress a year to get to my relationship with him in the act of OPEC, absolute We trudged out of the Valley up arising richly there wasn much talking when we began to climb up the steep long trail. I was already exhausted. I had to push hard to make every step my swollen infected ankle, throbbed with pain I will is anyone else having this much trouble? How long I might be able to keep going? Only there did the words of the lead I really hit me as long as eleven days try very hard to make it my being revolted, my being Revolted eleven days this, how the hell am I going to be able to do that in two seconds I answered got to as long as it takes reached down deep gotta, go keep going. God help me Wayne was stoic. He was in better shape than I was, but still it had

tough for him. He just bored and put out what was needed to keep on going somewhere the purchasers did is well many, like He had trouble a number, plain and a few cried out prisoners paraded them. A couple of them fell down and whimpered and the guards yielded them slapping kicking and hitting them with rifle butt, till they got up. I thought this gonna be along eleven days, and this is just continuing. Way past eleven days, you're now, just beyond that contain when, with the story as the days continued, I became we. You're in lost, wait. Fevers followed waves of shivering chills be malaria. I suffered from diarrhoea, probably dysentery, my festering eaglewood heard more. The swelling grew worse aggravated by the journey leeches plagued me. So king, my blood and adding infections are their own. My right leg

became a heavy painful mass that I dragged along the trail. I'm to build a site, though my wounds? Place me in a worse situation. Wayne was sick and deteriorating to hear some sort of jungle, fever and law does appetite he quit. Regular Rice- preferred only the crispy layer that form right next to the surface, the cooking pot, what the Vietnamese! old com, J or fire rice zone was having troubles to injury from his shoot down decline. For months in captivity. Poor diet Disease than the daily toll of this horrendous marsh North every the way or personal demons threatened our physical ability and pain and suffering, took its toll one suffered. We look like the walking dead struggling to survive each agonizing. Mile of that March, most a stoic. We face the challenges that beset us, sometimes

EL fitness and self pity erupted in tempers flared pain and suffering, took its toll, the sea, Ranking prisoner in our group was Pham Van Dam. Major in the south vietnamese army. He tried it best to be a leader for the twenty five south vietnamese officers in two american helicopter pilots under the most trying conditions, the enemy gave him no authority to lead I had a lot of respect for what Tom tried to do. I felt the full duration. He had to endure morale, sank, lower and lower bigger grew rapid prison he died down with senior but dismissed his efforts as they struggled to survive Now, there's a prisoner that goes down on the trail, the guy Jeanne back and forth at each other. They ranted at the prisoner lying on the ground. They barked orders, The rest of us, I didn't understand any of it

Zalm said softly, but earnestly to win in me, keep walking no stop. We continued on guard, stayed with the prostate prisoner where he lay we walked on. After a short while Bang one shot some time later the guard guard caught up adults. Of disbelief and shock overcame me. I had no doubt what just happened. I kept walking as I cried. It was clear. If you could not march, you would die And that message really subtle into my mind at that point than I knew if I ever get to the point where I couldn't march anymore, that that would probably happened to me as well. The aside that I wanted to say about son

Was it and it was mentioned sign- was a vietnamese airforce pilot. He young and and and strong at my mind, was a lot bigger than he was still a short stature. Fear the maze. He was the only one. Pilot that I saw shot down on my way to Ben head that I asked for permission to go, help rescue. We put that together. She we have to start that March north of real what he was why, where he was when he was shot down ass, my god that we were shut down the same day, the that's right! That's what the reasons are included that peace, because it was such a such a coincidence or fate that you guys were that was in are. You were any turned out to be such a good friend, and I owe my while my life to several people Wayne fits and song, especially for what he did for me.

Back to the book. The journey was a nightmare, a horrid so wrenching nightmare. They grew worse. Others fell out and died each step every day, racked my body with pain. My infections, worse disease was taking me. I knew I was sliding closer to death, but he kept in his heart, as I could to keep my spirits up, Two we fought continuously thought of my family of things, I would do Spencer Becky when I got home. Thinking of those two kids gave me strength, always bolstered my hope My leg was now swollen twice its normal size dark Lord filled with POS long splits formed in the skin pass and bloody stinking fluid oozed from the cracks dragged along like a sudden club, every move, movement last me with searing pain that kept my face contorted the silent cry within pain, burdened blackened scar, deep.

The centre of my soul game Green said in my bloody, Listen tree worsened. I had to And fevers out found out later that I had three different malaria. Each morning I fought a battle to stand. And with all that Norway Non on tried to maintain a sense of humor. There was hard, but it was necessary spirit. Is the most important factor and survival a sense of human humor. Even under the worst conditions, helps me in Spirit and in spirit, lives, hope, determined to survive. Still I owed so much to Wayne and they helped me during the through the wood. And were always concerned about me. They did all they could to help me Zog, especially help me remain positive to be hopeful as bad Everett as things ever got

I never gave up hope. I must our constant companion, stopped us waiting for us to give in to its relentless Then I fought hard for the remainder of the day to keep going moving along the trail. I could barely walk, but somehow I did I say each day to open my eyes in the morning to the gift of one more dawn, The realities of my miserable world were clear. Deaf, our constant companion stopped us waiting for to give in to its relentless temptation. That would be the easy to do in normal life. You have to take some overt action to die. You have to kill yourself as a prisoner, war. Under these circumstances, that is reversed. You have to reach deep within yourself and struggle each

day to stay alive dying is easy. Just relax do nothing give. Then peacefully surrender. Stop gagging down food, stop struggling to walk, stop fighting and you will die. Many did so. That's incredible paradox that you point out there, but it's it's something that I did I saw it is I mean if you give up, then you just die, you stop eating and then you die it's hard to stay alive and you need something to motivate you to stay alive and I had it. I mean I can't talk enough about those two kids and when they,

listen to this at its often hard to keep from getting very emotional, but to those two little kids are probably the single most important reason that I that I survived along with a lot of other other things that helped That little for years, forty five year old boy collaborators fiftieth birthday in April be there whether my beautiful. The figure of a low point here. The worst day of my life came a few weeks into this trip. I fought to continue the march, but I faltered, I dug deep, side myself for strength. There was nothing there. I don T, I staggered on and faltered again I struggled more. I reach deeper yet

I prayed for more strength. There was none. I collapsed got up and stumbled along. I collapsed again and again, and I got up again and again I fought fought with all I had in my body, heart and soul- a collapsed and couldn't get up I could not will myself up. I was at the end of my life. The guard looked down on me. He ordered me up. He yelled at me. I could not. It was done, you my life was ended here on this miserable muddy jungle trail. It was over. Would my family ever know? What had happened to me then zone? Was there looking worried bending over me? The guard yielded him to stop

Undeterred zone reached down to help me the guard yelled louder. It sounds face was set with determination, in spite of whatever threats the guard was screaming zone raised me up, turned and pulled me onto his frail weak back. He wrapped up arms around his neck and class. My wrist together in front of him the rest of the day. He pulled me along my feet, dragging on the ground behind. Part of the time he was helped by Lieutenant home. Now, only a big impish brute helped briefly but it was on home who carried the burden. That day. It was on who risked his own life to lift me from death. It was on who carried me and cared for me until we completed that. Days struggle at

but wayside camp. Therefore, you owe him my life absolutely absurd. You end up falling into a river as well yeah. That's the next day when we tried to set out my couldn't get back up My ankle boy was so infected. I could barely move that leg and three kinds of malaria, dysentery and three kinds of intestinal parasite smell absorption syndrome. I was just a bad badly. You found this river back. The book is on and weighing came off the log and down the high steep. To my rescue. They waited into the turn, pulled me back onto the bank, with Wayne shouting in English inside and Vietnamese. They pleaded for a group to stay at the camp. Until I was able to travel again, they were. Ordered away. They wouldn't leave me guards, drag them away and for

across the log bridge at gunpoint. They marched with the rest of our prisoner group. Everyone believed I was left at that camp die. So you get left by that group. I do and. You go to another camp with a kind of. Let you recover a little bit alive. Stayed in that camp and for some reason the decision was because I had that any medical treatment to that point at all four for four months and at that camp with me light up, there you ve got the camp Medical came over and I got some shots of penicillin. I guess the only reason for this decision was. We were along the trail and head north and they wanted to get me to annoy if at all possible, so they did give me penicillin shots for about five days running and as soon as I could see, and I began to put any weight on my leg it all off. We went back the trail and now you're on the tree.

The big you with one guard. At this point I write one me and one gardening on going North, don't going to do less easy, you and your again your hiking again challenge terrain and going act. The book we continue day after day after miserable day the journey was tat. Its toll, stretching my the press on again. It's like you just keep owing to the bottom, in finding more unbelievable each day, Track demand more than I thought I had to give. I was we'll go on only by scraping up the few remaining bits of grit that remained in the most obscure recesses of my heart and soul. I prayed I commanded I will myself to take step after impossible step that. Itself, FED and agony festering within me, which swelled and not at my core as weak, followed, wretched, weak.

Malaria attacks and bouts of bloody dysentery tortured me. The pain of my broken back seized me every day, the soul. My feet were: mosaics, have raised Welton and open bleeding gashes in punctures, previously brow, can toes throb as I broke them again and as always, there was the pesky we should leeches, but I was still alive and for that I thank God, and not only did you think God. You also still tried to escape in that That was one of those stupid things I did in my entire captivity, but, yes, I knew tat. I had that the code of conduct escape escape escape. We had planned, even in that first jungle camp had planned an escape their with Wayne, but

because of my poor condition that Wayne said let's what we're going to wait till you get some strength through this isn't going to work and then, of course, they took us off on the on the trip that Wayne survive GSO the day that I finally did. I mean I had the opportunity you you mentioned. I was with one guard. We don't have to travel with groups of other groups in north. Maize, going up and down the trail, and we travelling with one such group. This day I don't know where you going to pick up three or so you can't just tell L part, but so my guards, who is talking to some other north vietnamese guy and they were all in a big group and so they fall behind and I'm still with the mini group. But I'm slow down. The group is moving away from me: came around one third of the trail. One quarter nodes, behind me. No group front of me. So just in that instant, I said this is by chance. Plus I knew about where we were near the door. Dr Zone, we're only several miles from the coast saw that's the back, my man, I think I could make it so. I just took

if the trail and held up the side of a hill with migrate escape, which only lasted a very few My original lasted two minutes, but very few few moments before I was right ass. You re going to read some of the others. What happened you do get recaptured. Here's your thoughts, I'm dead, it's all over zoo, hovered over me, his age. Forty seven muzzle shifting from the centre of my face to the middle of my chest. He shriek you you why you his face burned, read his eyes, wild and rage spit sprayed, as he screamed at me. This is it. His fingers on the trigger he's, gonna, kill me and then you The trail I got lost. He didn't you when his rifle away in a sullen voice. He commanded get up. You do very bad. You have big problem now. He was shaking enraged, He motioned down the hill and said go nothing more. That was ever done to me never heard about the incident again.

My psychological assessment is, he was so berossus. It would have been somewhat worried. I think you know how do you lose your profile? Talking about this is that you know what we're gonna covered up when he was out of all the guards ran counter. He was about the worst. The meanest despise me the most. I think of almost any one that I encountered. Key me. I get stuck with him beyond my one single guards. It was moving away after your service. Was he with you that original group and he stay out here. You have one. I've got to the first jungle camp living in the cages. He was our interrogator there. I almost actually felt sorry for the guy. His English was so bad. It was as bad as my high school level. Spanish wasn't. He just could barely speak English and he's trying to interrogate us some propagandize. This and all this- yeah. So he was the only guard. The words spoken in English and also when I had to be separated the group

they assigned him to be the one to stay back within movie North and now again fast forward. You now to talk. Here, you are now moving in vehicles ok we got in the north. We walked all the way up across the north or to the northward amuse border on foot sore. All just north of the d militarized zone. At this point and then they put us on trucks to move us in a north Vietnam and inside North Vietnam, with some nights move and trucks some days and nights would would would march, depending on the threat from american airstrikes and, of course, the trucks of these old soviet era. Things had no shocks and by the way you ve broken back at this point and is not like the roads in North Vietnam or in any kind of condition so either when we first got to trust him, and after all, this death March North my life. My attitude was all frocks, this wonderful God, God had got on the better that truck it took about em,

a half of driving down the road and a truck with no shops, no springs slam slams Lamb, too have. You literally had a broken back at this point. I had generally an end, of course, as you said, Thank you describe this to your wife is a series of unfortunate events. So Yes, now, you're out there you see a flare the sky denies mediately, you know. What's coming, you know it's every level. First tour fly mohawks up off the coast. We would pick up gets on rate are neither the convoys moving along highway wanted side, North Vietnam and we turn it over to four fighter four fighter. The four nineties. Second, ninety cell, fighter wing out of Thailand and they were called the night fighters drop flourish than strike the targets we ass? I knew exactly what was taken for so you ye, allow air strike and then

here we go back to the book. The first afore screamed down from altitude bombs exploded nearby envy. I aunt Enviers Anti aircraft responded the the next for screech toward us more Bob's, more anti aircraft. I begin repeating. The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death. I will fear no evil for Thou art. If me for Thou art with me, good God. The earth shook our truck banged about as if in an earthquake. Yours, yelled from other trucks, says some were hit. The world shudder. Explosions in flames. Then it was done. That was our first there. First a night on trucks out we got into within I've, yes, not only to have the unpleasant bouncing around was extremely painful,

having a measure that book got a horrible case, a heartburn at night to regardless sour belts is going on and on, and then we get that the air strike again that wasn't the first or last airstrike that I experience, but that was pretty horrific and they hit some of the vehicles that limit damage resulting from the enemy so's out. And I was at this point when I get right to the border- just forgot trucks. I was married up with a second Group of south vietnamese prisoners, senior officer, south enemies pressure, so our Prisoners was on one track, but yet other trucks and a convoy got hit. People killed, and luckily we didn't. Now you're into another camp. In I'm, going back to book the guards ass to a small hut with posts in enough to tire hammocks. Fasten the door shut in place, local militia guards outside we settled in getting comfortable unresting the door opened. Guard, came in and said something a sound

vietnamese prisoner, entered behind him. Lieutenant hung, my god. I knew it was away who had died in this camp. Captain Wayne Fitch Wayne was dead, my God hung stared, as if at a ghost astounded to see me live. He cried. I sat slumped devastated at the realisation that Wayne Finch was dead. My friend Wayne who would help me cared for me my friend Wayne who I owed so much. He was dead, shocked disbelieving used home to the others. He told us how everyone thought I was dead. How the group suffered on the March with after they left me how to tall american pilots join them. How we continue to get sicker lost, hope and grew weak. I fell into sad

ass, twisting it into melancholy self pity sinking to the lowest point I had known it would be devastating. It was we ve, been separated and what I got this camp with the new group of salary enemies. When we arrived at the camp, the camp commander gave a speech in hear him say fin fin and the South one itself enemies officers translate for me to do. You know if the fin there was an american finding that died in this camp, and I said I don't know any fin, but what I did. What I should have put together with the bad pronunciation, was fence and hung had been one of the guys. Help dragged me through the jungle with with the sun and as soon as I saw hung, I knew that that it was it was fence. Now they took me to see the grave where he was where he was buried

him and at least that rough idea of where we were help me when I came back to ten my debriefs to to get that location to the Americans and eventually took a few years for several years when his body was recovered in and brought back that was that was a low morale point for me on the trip that was so devastating unity on the potato story. Now tell the potato ok I'll tell the potatoes, because this is another gather their there too vietnamese. I mean a lot of people help me out. I survive yes of telephone data. Storing then I'll wrap it up, for you can t tell the potatoes or ok how we do our to attack were to go and work good right song and help me as we already described, but in the second group of prisoners I came to know one lieutenant colonel Cadmium, who today lives in San Jose California, cylinder but k when he was captured had a gun. Old cross per annum in real goals is a very valuable pen. I want you. Can

play hit in the lining of his of his uniform. He was gonna traded for something for his own benefit, one when it got to wherever he was going to get to so I'm in the state that you describe unjust, physically erect now, mostly mentally and a low we're being held it up in a hut. There's a local militia guy, guarding and outside K goes to the wall. That won't talk to them. And I see him hand his pen out to the guy in the guide, disappears. Flowers later the guy returns with a small bag and passes it in in the bag were six potatoes, so K had traded his valuable crop gold cross pen for six potatoes and a potato cooked each day for the next six days. For me, and I ate it, K wouldn't take any potatoes and none of the other Vietnamese the senior officers will take any of the potato. They were from me and just I'm. Both the physical

the potatoes gave me, but even more important is the mental lift that that his sacrifice gave may really brought me out of my oh. My doldrums earn and gave me the spirited who, on the unbelievable, the one more thing that happens with K Europe. You're, getting ready to leave the camp to go to a new camp and K Tap. My arm look, he said the curious militia guard who had been so interested in learning about South Vietnam in America, who'd fetched my potatoes stood there. Looking like a kid with a new puppy, he came close to the truck, and I lean again the state side good bye. He said grinning his simple humanity made me smile, and I said good bye case. All my astonishment. He want to learn to say goodbye to you. When you leave, I teach him he good man. Yes, I thought. No doubt he is

there are good men everywhere. It's the governments, the systems. Leaders that are bad. It's communists but socks, not the people of North Vietnam. They are not so different from the south, not so different from me. I learned a lot of lessons on this trip. I learned a lot lessons about humanity and people am, I do honestly believe we are all gods, children, you and I had to fortune to be born where we were born in this wonderful country of ours. Others have had the not so good fortune B, I came across good people in Vietnam, and he, though he was my enemy was, was one sometimes people ass,

if I eat. If I have any hatred for those guys in the treatment that I got and I and I and I don't- I don't- I think they were human beings not so different than you and me had there of their news controlled by their government, their propaganda plus they were suffering airstrikes, nothing else. They behave the way that they they behaved is the one guy still don't care much war was too, but we probably get over the fire. If I regret the guy No, I don't have any hatred, Deirdre, there's people like you and I There is even times I mean we're walking through a village and now you're now Vietnam, where what you're just talking about they'd, been bombed. They lost their sons and you're, trying to basically attack you to throw rocks at you and the guys regarding you, actually, our biggest shot don't, but they fight over the ridge out over their heads, Dick to protect you all, which I found to be missed Alpha enemies runs mean that you'll talk to people have expressed in the Vietnam WAR in Iraq has a different opinions of the South

The means and good if was whatever and in, and they over all of Friday's like we are. There are some that fought valiantly. Bravely like the guy's, a fireplace Charlie people that I was with us A prisoner war work were great human beings and when we get attacked the first thing they put me they ve come his guards took me in them But then the Sofie enemies willingly would form perimeters around me the guards on the outside firing is necessary. Also to protect me one time going. The book the guard start screaming. Be norm. Hey be NOM, hey the bottom line. I barnum high one of her, which visitors Bobby five height and for those that don't translate that real, quick, that's be fifty two, the mob drop hundreds of bombs fell All around us big bombs, nearly on of I knew there was little chance of living through a be fifty two strike, but by the

God no bombs fell in our creator. The earth well that shook it. Rupture d and heaved waves, of crushing pressure blasted through a squeezing hurting my head and ears, the suffering pressure was painful, awful frightening, it stopped all was quiet. I was dead, I knew it. I felt ringing in my ears throbbing in my head be alive. Ecstasy. The officer sat up and holstered his pistol by the way you'd like the guy, but his pistol and held it to your head. Menelik does your as yet during the recent district K was moving, Others began sitting up days but alive. No one could hear no one spoke. We crawled out behold started walking in direction. We ve been traveling, wasn't in North Vietnam. We come upon area a lot of bomb creators of embalm, frequently in them the enemy shot. Two erika rounds that seem to be their signal to arouse was was an airstrike then the other stars.

Bottom line all hell broke loose upon us. Now you get to annoy right and you get a bed aboard, ok boy. You there's a blanket, though there was a blackberry is pulled her and french bread that is called it. Ralph was here it's like a small piece of French read as what it looked like, but it was just a minute was kind of half rotten and pieces of rock and strict and jacket owes its evil in the book because the food you first talk about the fridge redwood, you fridge, bread, admit a club run tears to my eyes a couple paragraph. Maybe a couple pages later you're saying there is bugs and when you first got their fridge, bread, the first I was put solitary confinement, my first prison and has brought a meal and now the whole time I was captured down in the jungle. We got a ball of great Magritte, precise ball rice in the morning, grapefruit size ball rightly evening for our food. That's all we got hiking up, though

men trail, we would in the evenings. They would. They would cook rice that the Communists would and we would get about that- say, mcquillan about a ball size of rice and then we would roll up a ball, during the year. The journey on the next morning so is the same thing to do grapefruit, so balls Rice a day. That's all that I had with an account. Or piece of manioc yeah, maybe some man what that guy shoot occasion, also just right. So the Hanoi. I'm in solitary confinement. They bring me a meal, it's a plate of bean sprouts played bean sprouts, piece of french bread on the side and I'm sitting for a lot of reasons I mean I knew that I was in Hanoi. I knew that this horrible trip of walking we single day and not no house going to survive through that day? All that was over. I'm here, I'm in Hanoi, o plus had given me a bath and give me a prison, uniform and shave me.

And I had not shave the whole times. I've been a prisoner for months of this huge beard, sat. They brought their food and I did I cried tears rolled down my cheeks I'd I'd new for the first time since I was shot down. There was no my mind I was going to survive. That was no longer question I had to was got out those last. How rely was gonna be in Hanoi. They give me this wonder: or food of being throughout this piece of crappy, french, rare, but It was wonderful, that's the beautiful And here's. As this continues you're in Hanoi. I'm going back to book, I stood and sell about twelve feet wide and twenty five feet. Long. Six bunks lined up to my right head and against the wall to us lay lengthwise against the wall to my left. The banks were three by six, pieces of wood resting on saw horses of the same with each was come with a bamboo Matt, a blanket neatly folded on one end between them.

Long, so my left, I saw two buckets just like the one in my son ones, my solitary cells, of three small windows: let's six by H niches opened high at the back at the top of the back wall. Seven sets of eyes fixed on me. One approached and put out his hand I'm John Murphy, Captain Airforce, how you doing Americans. A room full of Americans who God bless you and that's year, you're with these other prisoners, and I had seen another American Sis. I split up from that group all that I'm a girl on the trail. It was a glorious moment. Come out of solitary confinement, in a room with seven other guys, and you. This is one of the things that I talked about you as we were getting ready to record. I said: look

I want to read your entire book on this part: can cause it's nobody's, gonna wanna, go by. EL, it is heard the whole book read red and in one of the decisions that I made was one of the things that you do, and here is this: is Talk about you, you do a wonderful any beautiful job of describing and detailing the stories of all these other heroes- that you're within a matter of fact, you call this chapter chapter twelve, company of heroes with all these other Americans. It. You know you. You told me on the way over here and you talk about in the book. You'd been in, You are therefore at this point what six months for you there at this point seven months, some like that. Some of these guys had been in cap Thirty, four, three years, five years, seven years having until one guy taught by their Jump Thompson, had been a prisoner for nine years. I felt I needed

do that in this book. I've had some real mixed feelings about writing this book. I didn't want to do a book focused on This happened to me story and I did all this great stuff. I know I suffered, but there are so many other prisoners from the southern experienced. That's a story wanted to tell this. This different southern experience is different than the prisoners were shot down a capture in the north So many of these guys many many of these guys suffered so much more than I did spent so much more time in captivity than I did I do share those stores of those guys in the cup. If he rose when I got the boy got in the fridge, plantation gardens. I met these other guys and they had the truly incredible heroic stories to share in and you a phenomenal job in the book of of describing real them who they were, what they ve been through bill gone I'll crowbar off

John Parcels Build Thomas Bill, Henderson Dave MOT, just you go through the guys, Those are the guys, my cell, and I don't know if I don't know if you caught in or out of the egg guys in the self four of us were named bill. That's just crazy, eight Americans, in a cell and four of his name bill, so I became new bill. There was a built in AIR force pilot, but six thousand four hundred and sixty five. He was big bill. There was a marine war officer who some prehistoric, elderly gentleman. Poor guy was thirty, six years old, we we could leave each survive, but he was old bill and then we had a year and air force will be ten pilot. Who became young bills. We had four bills out of the other, guys be other than the others and aid guys at all suffered too. But then there are other guys in the camp, shoot, Dennis Thompson Harvey brand to spare

the forces guys capital long way, their experiences, so many others, five five guys with tv station Way Habsburg and TAT. You would think that a tv radio station tv station crew would get capture, but they have all of their trials and tribulations then the other most was was Jim Thompson. In his nine years of suffering as a prisoner of war, The guys I do want to highlight is Colonel TAT guy. Go to the buggy, our senior our senior ranking officer in someone's briefing. You kind of tone you what's going on in here's, what here's? What Dave says Dave mob. He says the S oral, that's the senior wrecking officer for the camp is Colonel TED Guy. He's in the shed up on top of the camp. Where they ve segregated the senior officers and answers from the rest of us he's an air force, Lieutenant colonel who must In promoting the full bird by now down over louse in an effort in nineteen sixty eight

the good leader and a real hard ass, he runs it. I'd ship doesn't allow making any propaganda statements. No one. And accept early release. We live by the code of conduct, he's taken- a lot of beatings and torture for us. We call him the hawk how crowbar jumped in immediately yeah and we're hawks heroes. Just like Huggins here on the tv show only we don't have it much fun. He added she'd eating grin on his face. He also look like crap, oh that's right. I was up it's one of them. You know you you, go through all these guys, what they ve done, and you also talk about it. About some of those heroes that that held the line? And you also talk about another group who out to hear something. I could hear a lot of noise from the other side of the wall separating our road cells from those on the further end of our building. I could

the top of a basketball hoop an occasional, are we ball arched high over and out of sight net? What's up with that, I asked that's. The peace committee came the answer: what's the Peace Committee, eight guys who collapse rate with the enemy they ve been ordered to stop, but they won't they communism do propaganda make radio broadcasts, even rat. Other Americans for that they get packages, get to write letters and can go outside whenever they want and play games. We call them the ducks the way they followed follow. Large around and do their bidding them, rotten hell. I said that they will. The collaborators were, but a Small but significant minority among us there, hundred and seven prisoners at plantation gardens and except for the eight peace committee all were

a loyal Americans who resisted enemy interrogations. Propaganda and pressure to side statements and make right radio broadcasts. We risk did with everything we had and then no, you don't want time those guys back. Girl guy, can't say enough about girl. Guy unease is passed away several years ago now, but what it a strong leader in We talk about military discipline and the requirement for it knocks resistance is at what are in prison camp discipline, was so essential and so sought after by everyone, and we were lucky to have come, guy as our senior ranking officer, he was so tough and in and by the rules and the code and, thank goodness, We all needed to hear and to have that standard to work to live by just a great and one for human being. When we get back

there were several who would have strangled sellers these committees, especially somewhere special forces, guys, were captured with the girl, I put out an order and he said this is a direct order. Everyone stay away from the Peace Committee, I'm gonna take care of this. I got it, don't you do anything and colonel Guy Press charges against peace committee. Again, again was overridden charges were never brought against them, but what did happen is colonel guys. Career was was curtailed, far basalt before it, it should have been, but I have the deepest respect for him, as are as our senior officer any Ghana monopolised say this again: you go through. Stories of of some the other heroes you just mentioned, Dennis Thomas Perhaps a beggar Thomson, hard brand, bill. Marie I mean you just you go through these stories and then they're just

call phenomenal any doom, such such an honor calendar stories. So by this book so that you can read these stories because I don't have time to go through them all here when the One thing I want to point out, though, is going back to book. We also try to keep our humor going within the cell. And our me as central culprits telling disgustingly bad jokes back and forth. I was getting a lot better: nausea was subsiding as usual. His naughty were subsiding in his boils healing some of the guy exercised to fight the deterioration of their bodies, couldn't even lie on my back, let alone trying to do so. Ups. What I Do we get was tried it into a position. Try pushups I tried once in the jungle and failed. I couldn't raise myself up off the ground now I was able to push all the way up once and halfway through a second pretty said,

a guy who could do a hundred pushups before I kept at through at it, for we until I was able to use several as part of my daily routine enemies point that out his goes. I always say local people get injured. People come with sickness. Do what you can't yes and Do what you can and that's exactly what you are doing so important decision, right now, you're 18th, one thousand nineteen. Seventy two, after many weeks of quiet we got bogged like none of us had ever been bombed before there sirens, wailed, barrages Of SAM's fired and bombs poured down American be fifty two's. It arrived in force over away bombs, close and plantation in shock We lay on our bunks hooping. Our bombers knew where our camp was still. We fell back into mindset. We'd all developed in captivity. What will be will be

no sense in warning about something you absolutely have no control over witches. They were soon. I'm gonna stop a bomb landing on her head, and I was Christmas bombing in nineteen seventy to the next. In order to finally bring the Communists to earn a bargain clear, and I I had put the part of Europe, had to read it So after those after that massive bombing precaution. So there's a guy, that you'd that you'd nickname repercussions repercussion a guard so named because of his violent outbursts and threats against prisoners stood again the wall as we milled around the water trough. He's some english old. Old Thomas walked over dooms him and said you think those air strikes or bad. What the guard asked you Those airstrikes were bad last night bill said again: yes, bad bombing. Well, you ain't seen nothing yet waiting

a drop in a bomb on your fucking ass. I gasped good, smiled old bill, proud Marine he'd, been pretty quiet guy, but not any more we all glowed inside after the bombing was a key morale boost the bombing when all night after night, not without impunity, be fifty who's got shot down their ghastly giant carcasses. The following. We wondered, sadly, about the fate of the crews. We lost aircraft, yet they kept coming quietly. We cheered them on. That was a huge a boost and bill towers, boy, blesses articles whose eyes gonna require gravity. Just let it little all out that morning. So awesome, ok, now work that had in the hull, oil, the infamous yeah, they moved us in the middle of all at bombing attacks. They loaders up one night on trucks at the plantation gardens drove around our seem like for a couple hours they their industry. The disorder, as with other, take us out the country because the bombings, then they came to a stop

and we're gonna the trucks and found out we're only a few blocks several blocks where we started at the Hanoi. And now they set up like a little movie night for you guys for the at the Hanoi, my little movie night and this They set you down for the movie night. You guys are making fun of it checked her operator in finally tell you quiet, no talk and then the man he starts backed the book. The film was of Jane Fonda visiting North Vietnam. We, on american cavorting. Among the enemy leadership, supporting their cause scenes appeared of her climbing it Gunnar C. On an enviable. Anti aircraft gun wearing a clean white blouse. Smiling broadly laughing D running? A north vietnamese army helmet with live ammunition atrophy that later shoot down american planes in the field.

She sent a message to american servicemen calling us war criminals, She said we were following the orders of other war criminals We're like the leaders of Germany and Japan in World WAR, two who were executed for their crimes. I was stunned. We didn't dare speak loud, but we had plenty to say to each other. We got back inside our cell. He's later. They showed us some news, clippings for american newspapers and magazines, the all NEWS of war protests one one was former: U S attorney General Ramsay Clark demanding that American Stop bombing, nor fear me sit dykes. He had been turning general under President Johnson during the build up of american forces in Vietnam, now he was making statements from annoy that it was inhumane to bomb dikes and that we should never do it again. A photo, showed him standing beside a dyke with a single

I'm crater. I knew we did not have an air campaign to destroy the dikes. This was an errand bomb. The war protesters at home never bothered me. In fact, I took pride. In fighting communism in this far corner of the earth. So Americans could have the right to protest in the streets. It was sacred honour to defend them. Of other Americans to disagree with me or anything within our american system of government. I do believe that so strongly the core of our democracy is not that we all get in line and in fourth march. Fourth, will Nineteen. Eighty four, the strength of our american democracies. We can have different views and people disagree and the health of the democracy is when

disagreements can be argued in disgust, and then you reach a solution. A damn are a democratic solution, and and- and you go forward that sets the beauty of our system so yet never buy. During the war. I come up. People's addresses the horrible these guys and now what is it That's what I said there I am fighting is an american soldier to defend the american way of life, which is democratic, disagreement and argument. So damn out of guys want to protest fuel protest beautiful now at you. Some groups can go to the book. We join the rest, rest Marcel Mates and pressed close you Jose, Angela ends or doer, torrent rosemary, a tall marine corporal capture couple years before he quietly related what he'd gathered from the brain

castle. He was a translator. He was ease. Dropping this innovation as one of the guards on the quarry are playing a radio which in never did I never. But obviously there was some important news coming says: Guard had his red, a radio out in the courtyard listening and whose I heard what was said on the right, and he says it sounded like a piece of it nothing for propaganda. The love that he's just hard till the end backed the book. That afternoon we were taken in the courtyard with our fellow plantation garden prisoners from the cell next door. Film crew stood behind a couple of big old funky cameras set up on tripods. We see, in rows as instructed waiting for whatever might come and all were passed through. The ranks HAWK says. Good news, no reaction, no smiles, no shouting, nothing for propaganda, that he's just hard till the end and dark who's. The compliment the camp commander. He he says

He looked up and says the peace agreement aside. You all go home. He waited for us to cheer nothing. He looked at college adequately at the film director, then back to us, with a hint of the skull goes through the hall, the whole, points of of what the peace accord pass in it right in. As you read the remaining highlights all faded into a dull drone. I'd heard them important one to me, the war's over we're going home within sixty days. I made it. Thank you, God. We went back to ourselves. Help that was that was made well as well. Do I getting the heads up and then we can front of the guards in the next morning and they denied no, no, no, no and then put you out in that afternoon. We got let out the courtyard and get the agreements read to us, what a what a tremendous feeling but a tremendous feeling and then stop just

short there, because we worked home. Yet we weren't gonna believe it until it happened and still at sixty days. Sixty days, and they actually consolidate other prisoners now right, they started doing releases earlier on or was supposed to be. The longest held and most seriously injured the got out first and then that is the releases were going to be spaced out several groups over a of sixty days back to the book here after the new group joined US we'd here God awful shrieks in the middle of the night. I thought it might be tat. Gustus an regions after capturing at way in nineteen, sixty eight he'd been hung from ropes, denied water severely beaten for extended period, its bashing in the head, with an acre forty seven and kicked in the stomach and an effort to gain valuable intelligence. He never revealed God It was now a physical wreck, who'd been driven to the

recipes of insanity, sometimes dangling dangerously over its edge, but it wasn't TED who is screaming in the night. There was Jim Thompson, Jim kept to himself, he was hurt. Get to know, but in time. He began to open up to me and share some things about himself. He was the thirty nine years old and God he looked like hell, he'd, been through more shit for a longer time than any other american soldier in history. In nine years, and you do a beautiful job of we counting the story that he told you so this Is the first person the first person report of of what happened in again. It's incredible incorrect

bleep, horrifying and heroic story that everybody needs to read about And when he finishes telling you the story of of of how what he'd been threw up to that point, I'm going back book. I looked into his eyes and saw a troubled soul. He'd survive I've captivity for nearly nine years longer any other american soldier in history. It had taken a lot from him, my God, Jim, that's incredible. I said he smiled weakly and looked down. Prisoner releases began a few days later, your genome is truly run some american hero, most Americans, don't even know of him longest held american prisoner military prisoner of war in history,

those most people. They don't know much about the Vietnam WAR anyway, there's not very much talk and in our history books or classes. But those who do know something about the Vietnam more. If you ask them who the longest held prisoner was, they will respond Navy, lieutenant of Alvarez Lieutenant Alvarez was the longest held prisoner, shot down over North Vietnam. He was not the longest held prisoner from the Vietnam WAR, Jim Thompson has several months more time and kept to reason that I've Alvarez. So I don't to take anything away from ours, but Jim never got the recognition. Really amazing mention here and there, but but as far as people realizing and giving him the honour that he deserved

never received that is being the longest held american military prisoner in in history and he's passed away. Now I regret well, we will do our our best to spread that word on here and I've actually ordered a book about him, and I will I will. I will make sure I spread the word to the best of my ability about his service and sacrifice in there and heroin and the way you do it in here is an incredible tribute to what he went through his well now. The days go by they finally pack get you to pack up your gear. Give you some new clothes, put you on a bus and take you out and here we go back the boat we mailed around for half an hour talking amongst ourselves and getting no information from the guards. The staff returned and We were soon back on the bus, afraid We're heading back to the Hilton boy.

Came to a row of derelict hangers. We knew we must beyond her noise. Guy, Lamb, Mozilla G Alarm airport used by enemy make fighters jets throughout the war. The boss turned at a shabby hangar with a rickety concern tower at his side beheld one of the most wondrous sites I had ever seen before us was a big shiny, beautiful see one forty one met a vat plain parked on the ramp american flag and a Red Cross repainted high on its tail. The words who s air force were printed boldly on use a large just behind the cockpit. I cannot describe the emotion that filled me. I can't even imagine and you guys load up take off. But here we go back to the book

was happy yet anxious. As the big jet rolled down the runway once airborne He remained silent absorbed in our thoughts we seem to be waiting for something, but none of us knew quite when it was until the pilot came on the inner com thought. You would all like to know that we have just passed beyond SAM missile range. We are up in, didn't spontaneous cheer. I was overwhelmed with joy, it was real. We were free, we were going home, nothing Could stop that now. We really, even though we didn't consciously noted, about. We didn't have the feeling that we were home free until that moment, when the pilot came on said Keziah

the missiles couldn't she just down we're on our way had to the Philippines I'm going, again skip through or almost were running a little long on time and but one The things I wanted to point out in here you got back you're going through your. Hospital you're going through some of your recovery, and you get asked to talk about a can. You come talk to this group. Talk that reproduce know. I don't talk to you, it's going to talk to you, but you don't want to talk to anybody and finally You get asked one more time and I ll go to the book. I just want to ask you please to consider one last time. This group is the baton regular survivors Association and they really want one of the returned. Vietnam Pew double use to talk to them at their gathering tonight, you're the only one still here I was blown away,

wait a minute. These are pure w who survived the baton, death March of World WAR two, and they want to hear about me after what they ve been through course. You agree to do it. And this is the part that I wanted, especially the SK as a lot of that's listen. This. By giving me an opportunity, I couldn't refuse. They made come out of my shell and speak publicly about what I've been through this when the door to what would become the greatest there'll be possible to help me deal with. All tat had happened to me, Many of my friends who have not been we'll talk about what had happened to them, have not readjusted well Several still have major: psychological issues, haunting them. Couple of days later, I got an invitation to speak to high school assembly, which I accepted in the weeks. Months ahead, I'd be asked at the various groups, and I agreed to do as many as I could

I strongly believe that the opportunity to share my experience has been one of the principal reasons I've been able to readjust and deal with life as well as I have that, coupled with faith in God, love of family and my inherently optimistic nature. Yes, yes, yes, I can. That is probably the greatest bit of advice that comes out of this book. I mean I came up. I didn't want to talk to anybody. I didn't think anybody could understand what I what I had to say- and I think many Let's have the same feeling just leave me alone. I will get through this and plus You don't know what I would have experience and you can't understand if I tried to tell you about it first, All they can understand to a degree. No one will ever be able to understand everything you ve been through, but they can understand or degree, and they do want to listen. The receiving it for you to be.

Able to share your experience for me over the years to share my experience again and again and again and even took to write. This book is it follows. As that process was, is a therapeutic price. It's a healing process to be able to talk about what you have expressed Do you think you have demons in your mind, share those demons to talk about it it it. It certainly has helped me I I'm doing well. I've been through a lot I'm doing well, and I think a huge part of that reason is is thank you, sir. Drivers of atomic regular because couldn't say no to you and by doing that, it got me started talking about my experience totally agree. I totally grades are beautiful advice. And to close out story here, saying the book that you greet your children at the time

new greet your children every day with good morning. It's a beautiful day. In you explain why you do that in the book. I quote. I truly believe that, day God. Given me on this earth, since I can home from captivity, is beautiful day. It doesn't matter if it's raining or snowing windy, We're com, hot or cold, sunny or overcast every day is a gift. Every day his beautiful And that is certainly something that I learned in war Not is vividly as you did by any stretch, but definitely something that I

though to be doing something that I talk about all the time here. That. When you see that darkness, the light is much more beautiful. And you know you put together in this book some eight the steps to survival the camp is in and those I wrote right after I go shortly after I got back, I mean the book was written just in the last several years, but those eight steps for survival. I put those two papers shortly after I returned and what I love about. These is as as I read through mere there, not just first a arrival in Appear W camp. Therefore life, therefore wife, the Been tested in the absolute harshest of conditions, it appear w camp, but they can be applied to life and in its action we things I talk about all the time.

It's amazing that that, They are so much alignment number one, sound simple, doesn't it but we you ve got a forced down nothing. The plane boiled rice day after day month after month, eating becomes a difficult chore. Some found death easier. The. How does that apply to life? For me, eat eat the right food eat healthy foods boom. You stay healthy next, one, Act is personal hygiene when you're, sick, and starving it's hard to motivate yourself to keep your body and surroundings clean. Do the best you can. With what you have filth leads to disease and disease leads to death.

And again for me to apply this to life. This is about discipline, and this is about routine and this is about pride and Maintaining those things in it, even though we ve taught at one of those stories I talk about here. Is the the Russians fight the Chechens and one of the things that in the de in it, most operational, be when they lost that first pushed down there. They said you know what The guy stop shaving wrote than they stopped it, you're, the weapons that go everything goes down hill. So what to me one other thing This applies to me, you're Talkin, about it from a also A pure health perspective, obviously also psychological factor. Yes, yes, number Free exercise set up We exercise period do something even

you are in stocks in chains. You can at least flex a few muscles and do some deep, breathing. Ok There is no more excuses ever ever for not working out for not doing something physical, even if you are in stock aids in chains. Not nor replied her with a tv. Unbelievable do give up the fight to stay alive this number, or do not give up this fight to stay alive. No matter how sick you are, how serious your wounds or how hopeless situation is, there's always a chance. You can make it take that chance with your deepest courage, fight for it. Then again you apply this. Every day. Look the opportunities you have. I mean the opportunities that a normal person ass. We do Take advantage of those operators that we have

we will fight for those fight. For those. Number five established communications with other prisoners, use your initiative. And imagination to make contact with others and then develop a chain of command, build relationships of people just build relationships with people. Number six follow the code of conduct you, no! The code before you find yourself in a prison camp. Then you should here too, the articles as strictly as possible that doesn't mean it here perfectly rise. No one can adhere perfectly, but it here as close as possible you waiver come back to it dont waiver and think that you ve failed and then just came in and give in and that's one of the thing again. We are talking on the way over here. That was the changes after that, the experience-

that you all had is what initiated those changes in the code of conduct to give it some flax nobody right, so that so that people could Back from its brutal yesterday didn't make it is a new day exactly, and I think that attitude is perfect for everyone. You fall off the wagon on something. Ok, there doesn't get back on it number seven, keep the faith,

faith in your family. Your religion and your country may be all that. Keeps you alive insane. Hang in there. You are not forgotten. That needs no explanation and number eight maintain a sense of humor. This is difficult, but both possible and necessary. A bitter humor helps keep away fits of total depression and remember, depression can kill so yes rights in practice. Road preached by my poor, family and close friends know my my crazy six cents a here, but I do have one and I did threatening

couple examples the book words very dire times. I would come up with a stupid, his humour, but well I've. Talked about that as well, and we would be in a worse situations possible, and always somebody be laughing about something, and that's what I like. You said. We'll keep the Spirit going in and keeps you on. The on the same side of things is to have fun with it it is very anything that any points that I missed. I mean again, I don't just missed. A lot of points else that that that you recommended. You wanted one to bring up. I dont think you missed anything job, are you covered the book very thoroughly? that that the title is through the valley, my captivity in Vietnam, and I'm saying that because I hope that this book will be of benefit and value

do to others, and that's really what drove me to finish the book. I started it and I was wondering why I was writing it, but I think when the whole thing is put together, it's is a story of hope and the power of hope. In how anyone can face very adverse conditions, challenges in life, be they guys come back with PTSD from from from combat be it just a single mothers somewhere. What with problems, others with difficulties, I think, and reading this book you can come out of it whip, what with hope and and hopefully motivation to word overcome those difficulties and and have a year have a full, wonderful and beautiful life, because it is a beautiful thing. If just grab behold the beauty and go for it and not dwell on whatever negative aspects. There might be There is no doubt and even I did it may have done a thorough job. I read blessed in ten percent met. Look much less,

in ten percent theirs much more that you went through that he experienced in the other. But you talk about who went through what they were through. It's a phenomenal book. It's a phenomenal book through the valley, my captivity in Vietnam there'll be a link for it. Yes, so you can go, go to the website and get right and get it ordered you guys know the deal. Do a quick, so you get a guess. I should add one thing to, because we talked about a lot of the negative stuff in the book. It does have a happy ending. The happier at the end of this book is Melanie Ross, reader, my wife and and that little love story is in there and how came together but she and then the two younger kids. We talked about Spencer Vicki, but also were Chad in Chelsea have brought such a joy to my life and brought this whole journey to her to a conclusion, so either the power of hope if there is also the power of love that comes out at the end of this

it's absolutely it beautiful. It's a girl is a great book and I can even begin to express how appreciative that we are for you come in here and sharing the story with a sneer determination in your wisdom. I can literally sit here and listen to you indefinitely and sir. Thank you know. You have work return to- and I dragged out here when you're already working hard thanks to you thanks, Your cousin Ryan Summers who actually com acted us through the entire webs and linked to sub together. So thanks to wine for doing that appreciate and actually echo. Speaking of the entire webs. If anybody wants to support this

I cast. Is there any way that they can do that? Yes, but actually one question Roquat what party or back was broke? You like your lower back de L won T twelve, to all, and there are few I had while waiting to get on my surgeries after he left, but I'm I'm all fuse together. Where did together my boy, I was asked: what would it eat the whole time. But this rice, what time did I get an oil and thereby said the bean sprouts was read what I read what I found as they keep their diet for about three weeks run its way, another but being scratch for three weeks. Then we get pumpkin soup, cabbage soup karate Yeah, then, probably something I don't really care for, since I came to love Rice Ashley, but that was partly psychological cuz. I had to eat it, so I don't. I do truly love rice today, Marion Diet that more or less

my role, was worried: no ugh, ok, yes, inner whips, so. We talk about on its implementation, real quick. Best supplements the world on it. You want percent off on a dot com. Less Jacko. If you joints. Are killing you or, if they're degenerating, whatever degenerating, whatever crude oil. I recommend also buncher performance stuff, which is like I said before, supplements A lot of time can be junk these ones, you know how to preserve their goods on a dark and less Jacko, get temperature off Not a good way to support. Is the Amazon click through that we always talk about its basically radio Amazon Shopping click through the wood Say: there's little Amazon Shop Banner click through their then do you shopping and then that it supports our real good

subscribe on Itunes, if you have an already, I think most people have, but in the event of you not having subscribed already To that end, we review the moon and we have a u to channel. If you didn't know that post some We both some videos from Jacko Mcnuggets little excerpts of the of the pot gas in a little lessons if they dont listed, are all thinking in two hours or whatever they can listen short short little nuggets. If you will other inspirational videos, but some music to people seeking to injure by ethnic that you too, Jacques S future subscribe with Yemen already. We do have a store you're into t shirts, rashguards other stuff anyway check out that stuff, it's Jack door, dot com, a little bit more efficient of a process. Now with that, so basically you get something now

you'd see way quicker, long stay but it's it's solid now, so you yeah it'll, be a good experience, not that it wasn't good experience before, but we'd better explained closer quicker, about that- maybe not necessarily better worst liquid chuckled that come see if you like any the shirts whenever you don't get one of those who can support that way? There's some women, often there is some patches rush guards. Hoodies Costa discipline equals freedom. That's the thing psychological warfare if you're running into trouble. If you're getting you know, you're trying to work out in your. You know he feels weakness at Allman Skip today or I'm having trouble waking up in the morning or just maintaining discipline one day two days whatever what you do is you go search, Itunes, rights, psychological warfare by Jocko Willink, Whenever get the album it'll have any weakness you have read: the Jack will help. He threw it every single time squashing

every single time hundred percent effectiveness effect, in this area and those are key ways to support while your clicking through Amazon, again pick up this book right here. There go pick up this book through the valley, my captivity in Vietnam by William reader. It's on unbelievable book covered a cover it, unbelievable book so get it get yourself a copy of extreme ownership. If you dont have it by it. If you do have it, if you don't have it. If you do have it by one for all your subordinates, your boss and your boss, his boss, do it immediately and John Kuwaiti you get on Amazon. You can also pre order if you want Where the warrior kid order, it now

order now, so you can get a copy of it when it comes out of the wagon, be waiting for it and that's not gonna, be fun n, Ass, if you haven't signed up for the Muster New York City may fourth and fifth: do it this week, price you're, gonna Friday, so so soon after it comes the muster, and if you want to give us feedback or comments or continue this conversation, you can find us on the inner WEBS twitter Instagram that face bookie. We are there. Are you social media answer? I am so why things women junior? Is the Facebook page nice so friend or follow William Reader Junior and you connect with the colonel here echo,

Adequate Charles, I am at Java, willing echo, do you have anything else to add Thank you so much honour, sir, anything else you you want to add. No. Thank you both for what to do with this wonderful podcast, and indeed it was. It was my honour to be here and be a part of this. Well, sir, that's I don't even not responded that thanks again to Ryan Summers for linking this up, it s been an absolute honour. Thank you for coming on they give writing this book. Thank you for talking to us today, but more important. Thank you for your service to this great nation. Thank you for stepping up and going forward into the fray over and over again

Thank you for your incredible determination and discipline and you're on relenting will. Not only to survive, but to do so with honour and with dignity and with humility, and finally thank you for giving all of us all of us an example to follow, and for reaffirming to us that this the darkness and the evil in the world, and despite the discomforts and the hardships we face and the challenges that all people must confront them.

Spite all that thank you for making sure that we remember without question that it doesn't matter. If it's raining or snowing windy, your com saw me or overcast every day is a gift. Every day is beautiful, every day is beautiful and we will remember that

And so until next time this is colonel, William Reader, an echo and Jacko out.