This is Jack podcast number seventy echo, Charles in and me Jocker willing good evening echo good evening,. Now I was gonna start off tonight. With a warning that tonight's episode is gonna, contain things that are Appropriate for children. Then, as I as I put together, the notes, I realise that may the opposite is true in that Maybe this is an important episode that children do need to listen to. But I would say, listen Two, it alone by yourself. First, without your children,

And then decide if and when they are ready to listen to this. And unfortunately I will tell you that I think the time is likely said than you think- and it is, most definitely sooner than it should be. Now normally Talking about war and in that light. I have covered some. The most heinous. In horrible things that have happened in the world, evil things evil people. And the things that I'm talking about.

Or things that happen on a large scale in in war. Battles between. Nations in armies, verses armies and men against men, and In those Situations on that global stage of war, as I always say,. We see the best of human nature, We often see the worst. But sometimes the worst of human behaviour, the most evil of

Human behaviour does not occur On the battlefield. And it is not driven by war. It's not brought on by the madness of combat. It's not the result of men trying to kill other men. Sometimes most evil side of human beings. Sneaks around in the dark working waiting preying on the weak, the scared.

And the defenceless preying on children. And often it isn't some arctic of evil the picture you have in your head of some sneering predator with a sadistic look. It can often be trusted neighbour. Poor frame we friend or even a relative. Then to talk through some of this with me tonight

to have a special guest on an amazing person. That. I admire for Her toughness and courage, Incredibly, strong woman, loving mother. An extremely hard working in highly productive farmer last, but certainly not least,. In incredible wife to one of my very close friends Is done, multiple combat tours overseas, leaving this wonderful woman on the home phone to handle the business at home. And her name is iris. In my first solid memory

I wrestler I'd matter before this, but you know I didn't really think too much about it, but was driving out to see her bend out on a farm out on, therefore that they live on, and I I pulled up my vehicle, my minivan quite sure, And I'm looking across the span of land and out there in the field. Fully nine months pregnant. Guiding a horse drawn plough right on top it looks like it. Seventeen twenty nine out their horse. On plough- in the field in the summer time and in the valley in the in the inland of sir in California, so it's hot in dusty and she sees me and she looked ties off the the horse and

She comes walking over to me and she's wearing the actual burst. Like you see in a western movie that jingle jangling an oak, and she's a small frame woman you know Took off she had a pair leather gloves on that look like they were down from the Marlborough man ages all worked. And she took one of those, often gimme handshake in her skin, Basically, as tough as the leather gloves, she was wearing and chief, you know, said: hey pointing towards or house where I'd find her husband who was in their lives and tv or something in the air condition and Then she turned round walked back and headed back outfield again. She was nine months straight up nine months, pregnant. And I thought to myself day What a. What an awesome woman so.

Years later,. I would say, maybe five for five years later. I was. Extremely moved and angered and disturbed and thank for an odd all at the same time, When she posted. Article on line about, something she had experienced as a child, and here is an extra of what she will. I was only five years old, the first time it happened. I wasn't feeling well So while everyone else.

Down the hill to cut firewood. I stayed Get the cabin in bed. I remember him coming back coming through the door and telling me he needed to get chain saws file. He then came over to the bed. Hold me to lay still and pulled my pants down. I was a shy. Child had would never Or have questioned and adult at that age. He inserted his fingers into my vagina and I remember it hurting and I was just petrified. I had no idea what to do Said things to me like, doesn't feel, good and

you like this right. I was unable to say anything or I don't No, I may have even mumbled agreement with him, because that's what I thought I was supposed to do. I just remember that it hurt and I was scared and I was confused. The sound of my parents truck pulling up the driveway stopped him any carefully. Hold my pants back up and when Over the sink, and why his hands. As if washing away the evidence. He then pulled me close and told me that This was a secret. Just between us. It was so cliche. It amazes me now.

That's what he said and how well it worked now. I have faced fear faced. Horror I faced evil, but I face it as a full grown man who spent pre much my entire life being trained to fight in the kill and prepare. To die. And furthermore, when I was in those situations. Not only was I have full grown man. I was with my brothers in arms to my left and to my right. But the face

this kind of evil as a child. As a little girl- and I have three daughters as a little scared Defenceless and alone. This is almost Impossible for me to comprehend. And I know that can learn a lot from the type of person that can survive this kind of abuse, I know we can all learn a lot. From a person with the strength to confront this evil and overcome it,. And then put together, an amazing.

In beautiful life, with an amazing and beautiful family. We can all learn from this and, with that mind, Iris, welcome to this Oh thank you so much for common on allow thank you, Jacko thrilling honour to be here And, like all of our guests now, I have to tell us about it. are you came from what was going on in your life. And your your life is is very nor I remember when your husband first met you, and he was tell me about this girl he had met in. I was that you know when you hear your story, just think that that's awesome

and so tell us a little bit about that about your childhood, you had a lot of very cool experiences in your in your childhood and grew up in a in a almost completely unique way that I don't think I've ever met. Anyone else. I grew up like you did yeah I I never realized. It was really unique until I was an adult got on the world little bit more and realise that most people anywhere near my age did not grow up the way that idea, so we lived in in the matter in northern California, my dad was initially a minor gold minor. And he would go And to all mine, shafts and bring out or that would crush enough Small mill and then refine the gold down into bars that they would sell. And eventually he became timber foller in a locker back in

one thousand eight hundred and eighty seven. I was seven years old, there's a huge forest fire that burned through northern California, and I remember it vividly because one night there was just wall of fire rolling down on our house and luckily our house was spared by a lot of our neighbours lost their homes and after that a lot of logging came into the area because there was so much burned, but under so a lot of people have parents It might be working in mines, it might have parents that are working as you know, Loggers or lumberjacks, but they still might have things in their house like power, then heat a hint electricity. So you guys we're like off the grid right yeah that the whole area, so so this place is probably one of the most rural places in this country. Still, unless maybe you get up into Alaska, its

in California in the mountains, there's gorgeous River Valley there and it still doesn't have electricity, the people that live. Still just use solar now or generators, but no one had that back. When I was had so yeah. We grew up with no power, no telephones, no television and we used the old school. Kerosene lanterns with a little thin glass globes and he would carry those from room to room if you needed light. We would take him to bed with us at night and read by seen lantern and we had a wood cookstoves that we cooked on just to get hot water are, would cookstoves had coils that ran through it that the water would run through

And warm at so, you would have to start a fire in the stove to have any hot water took too warm in. So yeah I was told it was, it was interesting. I I take power and things like that for granted now, but back then it was, just normal, the outlaws per se. It becomes normal for kids. I know them. For instance, where my kids were little. They just thought that everyone did. You did so because we did you down for this area would deem it doesnt everyone deal. You did you all the time, but just No, no power and that's gonna, be there. It's hard for people to even imagine that nowadays, when you're a kid And you don't have on Ipad too, retain you. You dont have a tv to entertain you. With a creativity has to be. The right has to develop. Salute legs where'd, you do for fun.

Well we're rocks yeah. I know what you know. I will know that good everything every stick. You could find turned into a machine gun and every you found turned into a grenade and that's what we did Did you even? How would you even know what a grenade was or how do you know what a doll was yeah we had we a few toys, but you know I see the toys that gets now an imperfect, definitely them is very different. We had a few a few old toys, but mostly we just lived outside we just now, side was are that was our playground or toys. And then, where are you guys get fruit from we? I always had a big garden. My mom through grew, he threw huge, and canned and froze or Weldon freeze, we didn't have elections. For a freezer, but can't and dried food,

and we had her on melt cows. We raised pigs which that that was kind of interesting to my. We handle a lot of pigs, my sister and I use asleep outside in this in the summer's when the weather was nice. There is this old stone route seller with, like a lofty, had been, and we would sleep up there whenever the weather was a little bit if he and it was right over top of the page pan. So We essentially grew up in a bar and we would wake up in the mill night with pig squealing in turn, our flashlights on and shine lie down there and watch like letters of piglets being born and these weren't even normal pigs. They were like wild where's the had caught Brad, and so they are all Harry and long snouts and they weren't, like your fat, pink pigs that you get the most people raise and did you was Erika kind of school up? There was

tiny little school that we went to when I lived there. It was sort of the height of the population, there is less people there but there was the mining in the logging had brought in few more people and so the school that I went to had about twenty five kids from K through a so there's. Maybe a couple of kids per grade, and we were all in the same man who was the rose like two rooms, the big kids room in a little kids room and we were is. So close, because there are just a few of us and we were every all of the kids that I grew up with had- very similar up, bringing to the way I did so. There are at least twenty five other kids out there in the world who grew up exactly the same as I did, but we're this pack of just fair. All. Children relay digital

lived in the woods and swam in the river and and did everything I have wonderful memories of bad, which offset alot of did not so pleasant things that happened in that same time did you you're? What books did you have a ton of books? Did you read sort of your one escape from the rear. There was around you, yeah we didn't have television and in the summer. We are mostly outside in the river and the woods. We would go down to the river in the evening and watch the bears catch salmon sounds worker. You know pretty normal after the five year old by in the winter, when it was cold and rainy, we read a time and I've got the best big sister in the world she's a couple years older than me and

he was reading these just ridiculously age, inappropriate I remember her reading these huge novels when she was like tat years old, because we didn't have any money and it wasn't like our parents went out and bodice the the newest. Children's books or anything to read. We just read whatever happened, to be lying around and oftentimes. That was not what you would typically give a ten year old hurry, but so she would she started reading to herself and then she would read to me. Before I was eventually I became in very avid reader to bite. You That was, that was a big part of her life, in fact, Cormac Mccarthy. I also one of my very favorite authors. If not my favorite author, I think I I read all the pretty horses in the crossing I was like fifteen I'd red blood meridian by the topmost. Sixteen

them all numerous times I remember this wonder: Old neighbour lady that live down the road from us gave me this box of a big car. Box full of old Llewelyn, more insane gray novels, which vary when he's not familiar with those there, there westerns they're, all westerns and That was, you know the way you talk about being a kid and sort of wanting to be a soldier wanting to be in the military, so bad, and that was like you are focused on that and that's all you are. That was me, but with horses. That was the only thing I cared about, and so I I just got hold up all of these old westerns and live, in that world of imagining myself, Being like a cowboy writing across the planes with my bed role. And but I didn't,

have a whore who sell me. You know I lived in the woods as much as I could I we we forage. We found we hunted for wild mushrooms, all the time, which is still one of my very favorite things to do, and I used to read mushroom in plant field guides. Like other kids married you now, see novels or something so it's definitely unique and a lot of really. I mean that's just an unbelievable experience it. It sounds like you, you definitely lot. Positivity. You know there's so much positivity to that the way you grew up. It was a very idea, a childhood. I would say that I have a lot of time Thus, in that same time, but I wouldn t Trade, the way that I grew up for anything. So let me

talk, a little bit about that that darkness and I kind of talked about in that that opening of of do this. This abuse that you suffered Happened to you this this, abuse that you suffered. Now I'm going to go back to this article that that you wrote- and here we go. Again, this is this is the this is from us, five year old. I was confused mostly I don't, It ever crossed my mind to tell my parents I just knew that I had been instructed not to tell anyone. So that's what I did really didn't understand what he had done or why but I definitely knew that what had been done was wrong and it might be something that

I would be punished for. From that moment on my life. One big game of cat and mouse. Tried to avoid him and he passed me and took every opportunity to get his hands on me. He had plenty of opportunities because He was a beloved and trusted family friend. Even right in front of my parents and other people. He would regularly slap my butt and pull me onto his lap. I would always scorn away as quickly as I could I remember, left home with him out. Throwing fits and begging to go along with my mom and my sister, my mom thinking. I was acting out being brat.

And would tell me to stay with him until they got back. The fact that no one realised what was happening by simple Observing the situation still bewilders me. So this guy, like you, said here, guy had full access to your house, for trust of your parents,. Why is it that you think span can talk about a little bit, but what is it that makes a kid hold that information in when some Bad is happening like this, so

oh, I think, is started happening with me when I was so young that I just I didn't understand it. I did not understand what was even going on. No one had ever told me that something like that, my happen and. I was told not to say anything by an adult, and so I didn't and I think I definitely had a feeling that I knew something was wrong and that this was not what should be happening, but I was A lot of it was probably just my personnel, Type, I was a shy, quiet kid and I wasn't inclined to. Express my emotions out much any ways, and I you know, I think people who do this sort of thing. They look for a specific type of kid

they are not stupid, they know how to. Single out just the right kid, and that was me and in that time and. I just had? I had a lack of understanding of what was even going on. I didn't, really know that it was definitely something that I should tell other adults and I'm thinking that in Europe in year situation in your upbringing you're, seeing You see in nature right your understanding that pigs are having babies in your see in this kind of thing take place, but it was. Something that your family talked about the birds in the bees or anything that just didn't, come up, you're, not really, and definitely not, and I think that it's hard for people to believe bad there

Best friend or close family members would ever harm their children, and so I don't I suspect that my parents fell like they kept up pretty good eye on me and that I was fine because they didn't look where they needed to lock I think, that's it. I'm echo has some kind of biased ecological bias for this, but you know any time you're in a situation where there's something that you simply could never imagined. I couldn't believe it and, if that If that's it, I that you could never imagined and couldn't believe happening and you're, not Being told about it, what would when that, in your mind, you know to make you think that is going on from your parents perspective. You know that Like me, look one of my close friends I would never have that fought.

And so, where would come from well, when I see how it would not any Shropshire belief. Think that your kid would let you know if there was a problem right you and me like well, I would be able to tell if something was wrong because my kid would let me know somehow, and that's not necessarily the case go back as you continue this back to your writing here. We moved into our own house, and I would have some moments of peace, but Who is always around always visiting and even part two trailer on our property to live in for periods of time, stopped me like. I was his prey ever ever, safe from him.

He would watch me constantly. I would look up from playing with toys and see him standing in the doorway of my bedroom staring at me. I would wake up to him watching me When I would have friends over, I would suddenly jump up and announced that we need to go outside and play right now as I would notice him watching us through a doorway or a window. Again, I can't even I can't even imagine what that add to feel like for a five year old, a six year old, a seven year old and again I picture my own children and fair her innocence they live. In, thankfully,. And I guess I can't I'm in this- is like a horror movie. You know you

kid you're, looking up and in your playing with your toys in your reading, your book or never look up, and you see this predator. You know just just stocking you all the time. In the discomfort that you had to just fuel constantly. In no way to escape. Do you think there's was there anything else that you that you can think of that you try to do or tried to send out a signal or was it Jim or you just so, Sort of enveloped by the situation that you didn't you just, I was talking about. Maybe your parents couldn't imagine what happening. Is it wasn't like you just couldn't imagine this not happening yeah, pretty much. I think big This started when I was so young. It just was part of my life.

Was so consistent. It wasn't like something that happened and then didn't happen from it was just like it daily part of my life and so All some friends and my parents came and visited, and they had a couple girls a little bit older than me. They came, and I remember the one girl who is probably twelve at the time- they came, and I remember the one girl who is probably twelve at the time: I'm telling me they spent the night they slept outside, and she told me that when she woke up in the morning this my abuser had Crawled up on her bed and started touching her leg and she like jumped up and told him no and ran away. And she also didn't, go, tell a grown up. She came and told me that this would happen and I remember telling her what happened to me.

And that's the only time as a child, that I ever told anyone and. Number us. Sitting there kind of discussing this. I was. Probably aid may be at the time. And were like well yeah. I don't know why he does this. That's that's weird. I know you know and we just kind of discussed it. And then never told anyone, even though she was even older and patent grown up with me, and I dont know if later on, she told someone, but at the time she definitely didn't go tell her parents or my parents, or anyone which reaffirms the fact that your kids aren't necessarily going to tell you. I know I know with my kids if they do something that they think it's gonna get him in trouble, especially an at five.

Six year old seven year old they're, not gonna, tell you, they dont volunteer that information if they think it's something that they did wrong or think it. So so that's another little trap that occurs back to your writing. Here he was old and was missing all of his teeth. He Or dentures sometimes, and sometimes he didn't member him pinning me up against walls and counters and kissing me with his soft toothless mouth and fingering me with his dirty hands. I wanted to vomit. I would never tell him no, though, never To get away from me never acknowledged that he was doing anything to me.

I would just slip away from him as soon as an opportunity presented itself and mumble that I was going outside to play or die. You'd. Follow me to the top of the trail. Saying things like come back, you like what I'm doing follow me to the top of the trail. Saying things like come back, you like what I'm doing or I don't think your mom wants you to go down there while she's gone. But he never followed me down into the rock piles. It was my safe zone. It was the place I could cry with no one seeing me. I remember someone accusing him of molesting, another little girl. My parents talking about it and then dad pulling me aside and asking me if MIKE had ever touched me out,

caught off guard and totally unprepared to deal with? What saying yes would mean so I said no. As soon as it was out of my mouth, I wanted so badly to change my answer, but no, Never asked me again I'm fenced that if I had had a little time to think and had been Again, I would have, build it all. Remember that it's important, but at the time I said no and the woman who made the accusation was discredited as being crazy or drug addict and having ulterior motives, and that was that.

So there is a clear example, and I could I could see now. Going from the perspective of apparent. Who is all uncomfortable to go up and ask this question in the first place you know it was probably the weakest form of questioning too you know like has MIKE ever made. You feel weird. And you know you know: ok, he's gonna get now dad's. Like ok, see. I told you. This is no issue. She's, a liar she's, a drug addict They want that answer. They wanna hear. No, any parent wants to hear no when they asked that end, And yet you gotta ask again: you gotta it probably in multiple different way. Of asking the question not just as he make you you feel comfortable. Does he touch you? Do you gotta ask out in so many different ways to get to open up the,

the kid Obviously, without asking leading questions, you know that that's going make put somebody you know in another weird situation. How do you ask your own kids? So I think that you have you have to talk about it casually, hopefully before something happens, make them aware of the fact that this does happen and people that their protecting their kids by not telling them that horrible stuff happens, they they feel like their protecting them. Shielding them from this and meanwhile their kids are being molested and don't know how

to tell anyone, because no one's talk to them about it. And so you can start here, in them when there really young use simple terms, an ex brass that sometimes people do bad things and there's something I tell my kids that there's something broken in some people's brains. That makes them do something that normal people don't do, but that they're out there and When you, I think, when you question a kid about this, you have to ask it once and then give the taught that give the kid time to think about it. And then bring it up casually again a couple days. Later hey you remember that thing we talked about the other day. I was thinking about it. Some more. Do you have

nor is there anything else. You want to talk to me about with that and do that a few times especially, if you have any, if you suspect anything for sure, but even if you don't bring it up once bring it up again, a couple days later, bring it up again. A couple days later, give their little brains time to process what my and then make sure to tell them that, if anything Then even if they're not telling me anything, did they are not gonna be in trouble if they feel like they want to tell me now, some kids are just so and we'll talk fine, but other kids and that's the kind of kid that you have to seek out. And if you think about this, you could actually develop a pattern. With your kids, where they ve done? talking about molestation if, when they tell you something,

you punish them because they told you the truth, because they put took a cookie drop Cookie jar spilled milk and they could after the secret, but they told you and now you punish them, yeah, you do the same thing: you're setting them up fer to keep secrets and keep things inside. I always tell my kids that they'll get and more trouble. Telling me alive than for whatever they did, Sport is smile at my kids, absolutely no that and and that's the same with that non nevermind. Kids, when I was in the teams, that's standard, yeah, we're here tell me what happened Don't lie to me what happened tell me something you did some wrong. Here is an incident. Some bad happened will handle it, but one thing we can't do is if we try and cover something up and we get caught now now, there's gonna be held a pay. So yeah, that's it

Other thing that I do with my kids is: I got there some great books out there about talking to your kids about abuse and staff, and there is one that I read too. Sometimes- and it's not those looks are meant to just read once and never pick up again. They are a perfect opportunity to bring it up casually in conversation, theirs

book, it's called, I said no and it's written by sack and Kimberly. King and Zack is a little boy and his mom Kimberly King and they wrote this book together and it's really great taught it talks about people and being like red flag people and those people can be the sort of people who just give you a strange feeling named they unsubtle you they make. You feel a little bit odd and it doesn't necessarily mean that they ve done anything wrong. Do you, but you should be able to pick out those red flag people and then talk to an adult about what is making a monk, people now knows. That is that, because the this red flag person did something that that gave them right, whereas Lang things that I told my kids, especially now that my daughters are older, you know that when my daughter's going on a chip somewhere. And I was given her the talk. You know: listen, you need to watch out

and- and my daughter said something to me like dad I'm not going to be Juno going and rang and around with some weirdo, and I stopped right in her tracks, and I said it's not the weirdo guy. That looks weird: it's not the guy that looks like a predator that you need to watch out, for that, guy that you need to watch out for is the It seems like a nice guys, guys, I'm just gonna help you with your luggage is the guy. All of them. But you need to watch out for them. If you look at some of those serial killers, you know, I think it was I act like it was TED Bundy, but he had the whole thing where he had his arm in a cast and he would ask someone to help him you'd ask a woman to help hey. I need to get my groceries in the car or whatever, and they see this, and if you ever saw picture me, looks like a nerd and He has his arm and a caste and he's got a colored shirt on. He looks like a white collar guy and he's got a car and

And you know next thing: you know as soon as they did. But the groceries boom the arms outcast him he's he's abducting them in so so. What are you, how do we identify like the red flag, people more about your you got intuition if there's something that just makes you feel a little bit weird if they say some, you know it's listen! It's about listening to that internal voice. That might be telling you some things a little weird, but he's really nice guy, you know he's an learning how to us. I doubt if I that and listen to it because yeah, that's like I said, pedophile sexual predators, they're, not stupid people. Most of them. Are you stupid people there very calculating and they look further right opportunities, so you yeah you ve got it

teacher kid specifically that you'll seems like you need to cheat your kids specifically that the ice had no part right, because even you kid you dont know how to say. No, you dont know how to scream. You dont know how to tell someone to stop and also how do I identify what you know? Kids, don't know where the Linus, if you dont, teach them what's right and what's wrong. Terms of physical contact with them, then how are they going to know? How are they going to know exactly that's a good point. Now. You you'd want to scold the kid for making a mistaken in how you hold lying is in higher regard as far as violations go where if this environment is kind of created that what you say, mean that much so be careful with what you said. But if the environment is hate, you can come to me with anything and demonstrate that, don't you say like once, I'd, say: hey, you can come to me with anything next Eric

come with something: you're like hey, I'm busy or hate grown ups are talking If you actually provide that environment consistently, don't country with anything leaving that's all bilbil! I mean. What's this here there's a rabbit in the backyard saint, even something that small, so some weird or some red, like person comes, and there in something strange out of the ordinary they're gonna- Humpty way. More likely. You know, you know we talk about inoculation when it comes to training for combat- and you know you you knock, yourself, distress and unwanted things as our about, like with self defence, for especially for women is. If you try,

Jujitsu you get inoculated to the fact that some what's gonna, be grabbing new, touching you grinding on units and so you're over that you're over that. But it seems like this is the same situation. You do with kids, where you and knock you ate them to the uncomfortable conversations. So they're, ok, talking about stuff that, let's face it, you know that that your kid is not could be comfortable talking about some things unless you unoccupied them and you get them used to and they understand what's right, what's wrong, I think its correct on what you said it parents are typically the one's gonna, be more uncomfortable like the key surprise what kids or just talk about gallic weird, if, unless you made it uncomfortable for them, they ll talk about some weird stuff specifies six it, but if it is the parents, hey. You know in your scenario, where they'll ask you something you can answer, they say good, that's the answer. I want lids, don't talk anymore, they are uncomfortable and it's on the parent too.

She ate these conversations, it's not on the little kids to come to you and tell you something big, as happened. It's on you as apparent to initiate these conversations my daughter is she's she's shy and she doesn't express her emotions very well she's. Not the kind of kid who comes in just tells you stuff, And I don't I don't want this sound, like em beating the stuff into my, kids heads every day and terrorizing them with the thought of scary things in my happened to him, because I'm not you know, I talk occasionally enough? I think that it gets through to them, but she Choosing kindergarten and she had a little issue and she told me A boy has been coming up to her on the playground. She. I always use correct terminology because that's another thing I want, I feel like kids, should be comfortable talking about their bodies and

she told me, and it was hard for her to tell me she didn't want to tell me- and I could totally see it because of her personality. She came up and she's. She told me that a little boy was coming up every day on the playground. Like poking her in the vagina and then asking her to do the same to him and cheese. I I've she told me there and I was like ok what I'm doing is working because knowing her personality, she didn't want to tell me that by She did, and so is the area that was also the perfect experienced it sort of teach like. Ok, call not a big deal, these five years old, you know they kids do that. They don't know what they're doing, but let's go talk to your teacher and make sure you know, and I immediately took action and showed her that I wasn't gonna. Let anything happen to her if she was uncomfortable with it.

Without blowing it out of proportion. I was gonna say because a lot of times do what kids or embarrassed about from aid, whatever may to see eyes, they don't want to tell you cause you ve turned. My seventeenyearold will do that as well. My seven year old, dad dad told you know so I think that's another thing is: how do you make sure that they realise that you're gonna be without blowing it out of proportion which, which I Do you not a five year old kid? It's a five year old boy there doing, like you, said they're talking about stupid stuff that they don't understand and are doing things that they don't understand. Yeah, that's like ok, but but let's now each them again let them learn that yeah and I gave me a lot of confidence if something, because I because she dealt with that in a great way, if something bigger were to happen, I now feel like she would be more inclined to come to me. But what you're saying about not wanting to make a scene? I think, as I got older and and

understood what was happening to me a lot more than I did when I was little. I didn't want to make a scene This is somebody who was my parents. Best friend was deeply involved in our life had been with us for ever and imagine what telling would look like. And that was in something that I was prepared to handle even when I was a teenager and I knew exactly what was going on. I knew exact how wrong it was the scene that would ensue if I said something was not something that I was willing to deal with, such even harder for adults to do, any kind of confrontation. That's gonna cause. These big ripple is like man. I got all this No they're like can strengthen mice, up verses, you know, create this big

I'd rather deal with strengthening myself up and either they don't know. You have no idea in your mind, you probably made it even the bigger crazy, so you're, probably thinking that they would have to make a choice between you and this guy. You know, maybe, in your mind, that's your best friend admit you know. Now you got to convince people. You don't say anything you don't know if they're gonna believe you you dont know. If he's gonna go to jail, you don't you just don't know what the consequences are going b and its much easier to just be like I'd. I've dealt with this. I can keep dealing with this. I'm not gonna cause any rebels. So as you go back to your writing here,. As I grew older, I got better and better at avoiding him His hounding of meat did not decrease, but I rarely let him get his hands on me. I was capable,

Just telling him to get away from me if he got me cornered. I'm not sure how to explain what this is like this car in pursuit and hounding that you are unable to avoid. When you were a child, When I was twelve years old, we moved it was over seven years of stress and fear and pain finally replaced with an empty discomfort. A weight was lifted from my shoulders. I got a horse and felt more freedom. Than I ever had. And then he followed, he bought a pizza. Property just up the hill from us, and that was the beginning of dealing with him as a teenager, I never let him touch me again. Tolerated is crude comments and eight dinner next to him at the dinner table, I laughed

is jokes and I dutifully road, my horse up the hill to check on him every couple of days at the inside of my parents. Always come out of his trailer layer. And on my five invite me to tie up and come inside, I couldn't look him in the eye. Still couldn't tell me to fuck off instead I would just change the subject and ride off with a hollow pit. In my stomach So you move away and then he follows you there and. You know you talk about how hard it is to explain this in this hounding that got in your trap. You can't

you don't feel, like you can say anything to your family. You can't get away from him and this is it's gotta be mean you, you say a hollow pit in your stomach. And this is gonna- be eating it. You yeah. And you find Finally, some comfort in horror- switch has already your dream, and now you finally get you find the get your first horse yeah. That was on the best thing that ever happened to me up until that point, at least maybe ever

There was a neighbor lady that lived close to us who had this horse that she didn't have time for and she let me bring home and start writing it, and I didn't my family never had horses. We knew nothing about horses other than my just insane desire to have one and so I just started writing in this horse was half broke it best and I would fall off constantly. I I just with smack my head on the ice and get back on and fall off again, and I remember my dad one time standing there and just Telling me you gotta, stop you can't you can't you see, I'm not gonna. Let you see here and kill yourself trying to ride this horse, and you know of course back then I didn't. I didn't, have a silly thing like a riding.

Mad or even a saddle ideas I decide this, Desired arrived this horse and if it was gonna kill me, it was gonna happen and so I did I just kept after it and finally war the poor horse down, and he he gave up and he ended up being. You know the by my side for for many years and so that they gave me this whole different level of freedom. I wasn't constrained to my feet, any more I could go out and get it miles and miles away from it all again. No home, was in it wasn't a comforting spot for me to be so. I was much more comfortable being out in the mountains by myself with my horse.

And some people might have an issue with this, but by the time I was twelve. I was carrying a thirty thirty rifle on in a scabbard on my saddle, And I had a little rigour: twenty two that I carried with me. You know one or the other. Usually when I was writing because my parents felt like I was safer. With a gun. Then without again, even though I was twelve years old, I. Grown up around guns and was comfortable with them, and since I would, Had out in the mountains- and I think that the only rule I had was that I had to be back by dark- and you know when you're on horse and you leave first thing in the morning. You can cover a lot of ground and if something had ever happened to me. I had on honey. Anyone would have even found me so I was

I had to be responsible and self reliant to make sure that I was the safe as I could be up and I give my parents a ton of credit for. Allowing me that freedom, They had a daughter who had this passion to be doing what I was doing and it was dangerous. And they let me do it, and that is a large part of what built me into who I am today and so that you know that's something that I also try to do for my own kids. As much as I can you know you know, I'm I'm pretty,

cautious with them, but I still try to always allow them a lot of freedom. I remember one time I was, I think it was fifteen. I was writing away from home a little ways and I was down in this creek by. Had a deer downtown and the creek bottom endows what I went through my went through my head and I noise wise, and I thought there were neighbourhood dogs who would chase dear, and I thought that the dogs had a deer downtown and the creek bottom and those what I am. What, through my through my head, and I ran my horse down through the brush into this Craig bottom think I was gonna scare, the dogs off this. Here and I came out of the brush literally from me, you, like five feet away from this mountain lying. There was just in full snarling crouched attack mode, and it was squared off with I didn't. I didn't know this. When I had left was riding by one of my dogs had followed me and I had seen it and it was.

Down in the creek bottom, with this mountain lion and they were face to face snarling crouched down at each other, and I I came out of the bushes right on top of em and No, I didn't feel any fear at all. I just reacted and I just knew I had to get a little space between myself and the lion and I spend my horse round and got up the hill just ways and then stopped to watch the situation and the dog was a big wolf. Ciao cross? It was a big dog, but she she got scared and she cut and ran. She decided she had enough and she turned and to run from this, in the second. She turned around the cat, Hatter edges through an arm over back reach under bitter throat, and she just went lamp and then the catches picked her up in character

well yeah- that's cause you're, not supposed to turn your back on the eye. I don't ever even when you ve kind of rode away Scot I own I and the reason I did. That is because the cat was indeed a strap Edward. I wasn't a threat to the cat. I was aside. Then the threat was this dog and thing goodness, my horse was just a rock and didn't dump me right in front of this kind, because had not happened. There is no doubt in my mind that I would have been attacked. But you know things like that. That was that was my life. Things like that happen, and I was young and I had to be able to deal with those situations. How old were you at that point? Fifteen And there's not there's also this really really still on dichotomy. Here is that you're out in the wilderness on horseback pack, and he you know Confronting mountain lions.

And even with all that didn't confront this abuser and an that's another, you know, is sign an indication to people of how hard it is psychologically for some that's a strong as you were ass, a teenager. That's out there on your own, like I said riding around the mountains, with a pistol on a rifle ready you know get after it, and yet this This point, condom old man is still has This level of control over you in your own home, yeah just dumb. And I would say then at this point maybe to fill that hold order, release some of that tension. You stop going down a path, debts

a good path for you to be going down in life yeah. So when I was also fifteen, I met someone that lived a few miles away from us. He was I think he was in his thirties. He is an indian guy and he rode around the mountains on his horse as well, and it was I do. I developed relationship with him and you know it was He was not the kind of person that you would want here, fifteen year old too, dating back to me. He was there was just this romantic thing and it was this escape. It was it was something different and with someone that pay. Attention to me in a time when I was really struggling with my home life and and who I was

think that the molestation abuse stuff got harder for me as a teenager, as I even though wasn't actively happening any more, really physically it was messing with my mind, a lot more because I understood it better. And so I start The dating this guy, who you know. Was a distraction to me, from that and you know in the way. Keen year olds. Well, I just became Madly in love with him. And. You know you can make your own conclusions about thirty, some Your old man dating a fifteen year old eyes,

only feel a lot different about it now than I did than he was he told me that he wanted to marry me like it was. It was very, serious in my mind and Then one morning I was riding away from home down the stairs. Road and I remember a neighbor rancher pulled up alongside me and asked me if I heard what happened, and he told me that this man that I was in love with had been shot. What was what was the genesis of him being shot and killed. It was like said he wasn't, he wasn't the most upstanding person and it had to do with marijuana and guns and it it was.

A mass- and there was some tragic scenario- yeah. He wasn't a drug addict bud. He lead a life of well I'll, just say it. He would steel people's marijuana plants from them and sell them. And got him into trouble And I looked back now on the road that that relationship Could have taken me down and wall. It was this horror really tragic event. For me at the time, this sent me into an even deeper tail span. Now as an adult the way, I am, I'm almost thankful that it happened, because I think that had that not happened, who knows where my life of gone. It's a what

In others is first of all. I can see how fifteen year old Iris, whose deal with this stuff at home and needs. This. That's do no thirty one and you no thirty one year old is I don't You refuse a total idiot. He can manipulate the hell out of a fifteen year old all day long, but but regardless. Your end. Up you're in just a super vulnerable situation because of your mindset- and you end Here the ito in this relationship with this guy now he gets murdered and you go it's a. U you end up just going even worse. At the time he had Alice. Tat was a hard thing for my fifteen year old brain term process, and shortly thereafter my parents separated not

In an amiable fashion, my sister went off to college, so I was especially on my on because she was in all my raw. And I just really went into a cycle of depression and misery and by the time I was sixteen, I was dating a thirty two year old cop, which again you know. I have very different feelings now, on what a thirty two year old com is doing dating Sixteen year old, but he was this safety zone for me in a big way, he was his strong brave person

He wasn't gonna. Let anything bad happened to me and I really latch onto that when I was just trying to find something in life to hold onto And that ended up being a long on and off again relationship, which definitely was not healthy for me and at that point time, I started self mutilating. I started cutting and burning myself. I was definitely very depressed. And it was not something that I knew how to communicate to anyone. I just was sucked into misery and self pity really

and when you start hurting yourself is that. At that moment, is it just so much anger and frustration that, it somehow feels good to feel that pain or inflict pain on yourself or it more of a say, hey everyone. Look here, I'm doing this to myself Maybe you should pay some attention to me and help me, or is it a little bit both or is there something that I dont know and understand. I would say it's definitely both its definitely. It's a funny thing. It's hard to understand it, sort of an addictive behaviour- and you know I've read about it. Some and they say there's chemicals released in your brain and stuff. When you feel physical pain

That makes the emotional the dolls emotional pain and things like that, but it also for me. I will absolutely say that yeah I think it was. It was a cry for help. It was like. Somebody realize what you know and. As all teenagers. Do you think that year, some rare exotic creature, That's no one else has ever experienced anything you ve gone through and nothing anyone says to you MA. Hours because they don't know what they are talking about, but. For me a lot if it was, was a cry for attention to have some.

And an I got it the thing is I got the attention that the cop that I was dating told my parents that I was doing ass and people kind of freaked out and everybody thought did It was really something the matter with me and I was really depressed and I wouldn't, even though I was getting the attention and people were actually asking me like what going on. What's why are you doing this? I wouldn't say I would not tell anybody I just was. Shot off and it's like. I wanted the attention, but then I still wouldn't say what and may be part of it is, I didn't even know, but I think what we talked about before of not wanting to make a scene. I was not going to make a scene this. At this point- my abuser was pretty old, but was still alive and you still in our lives. He still you know all the time

and people were asking me What are you doing? Why are you doing this and I was not going to say: go back to your writing. By that time I was a damaged by so many years of abuse, heartbreak and death. Painful destructive relationships my parents were too forced and angry. My sister. Moved away. I was in a spiritual hours in a spiral of self destruction and self pity I had taken a cut. In burning myself scars that I still carry to this day to remind me of the way my life could have continued and that's what you just talked about. And then at this point, your seventeen or eighteen years old.

And your abuser, who you just said it was now in old guy. He dies. Their number continue. Sure, exactly when I woke up. When I shut off the self pity fountain and realise that I was strong and indestructible. Somewhere in my early twenties. My twenties was a slow rebuilding of my life, the way I wanted it, I travel. Wandered were Does a horse wrangler around the west had relationships with men who were kind and decent got married, goddamn first made friends built up a reserve of strength. And found myself little by little so,

You know one of the reasons that you're sitting here today. One of the reasons that I know you is that, despite all that darkness you got didn't you. You somehow in some way at some point, realised that you were going in the wrong direction and you you turned around and started do, and I know we know we ve talked about it before it wasn't like you woke up one day and said today I M going to change my life. You you transitioned you transformed over a period of time. You can't put let you know if I can put a day on it, you didn't have a a Eureka moment. But you slowly started seeing yourself from a different perspective and realising that the.

If you are on wasn't a good one, so as soon as I graduated high school, I left to start working on ranches. I went to Montana and I remember clearly I was eighteen. I guess he and I was working on a ranch in Montana and some one had left lying around this dusty old copy of the age Lawrence Book of poetry, and I read this little palm and it just stuck with me and I'll read it here. It's I never saw a wild thing. Sorry for itself a small bird we'll drop frozen dead from a bow without ever having felt sorry for itself, and I read those words and they just they just hit me in the right

place and I'm not saying that in particular is what really started to make a change. But I read some more things and you know is growing older and I was thinking about things differently. He and my abuser had died, and that was probably the biggest way that I've ever lifted off of me, because now what I realized is, even if I did choose to tell someone it wasn't going to cause the kind of seen that it would have before, and I still didn't really choose to tell anyone, but that in itself not having him Ashley B President was was a big thing for me, and I realise that I had just been damaging myself and I really been hurting people in my life, my my parents, my sister, they were

Just confuse they didn't understand why I was where Why was doing what I was doing to myself. And I realized tat- I was just in this- I was being selfish- and self centred and just feeling sorry for myself and I stopped. I just gained a little bit of perspective and made myself bet that perspective pieces so important. What's grazing to know. We all have seen in everyone's seen people that are. In the downward spiral they're just the downward spiral, whether its relationship, whether its booze, whether its drugs, whether its behaviour, can see it and when you're on the outside of it, it's so obvious,

and you want to grab that person and I'm sure everyone I have literally grabbed my friends that I've seen in that downward spiral and shaken in Saint get out come out. Come here. All you have to do is come over here step over here with me and look back and see where what situation you get your in and your did the direction you're heading. And unfortunately, you can, pull them out, you can pull their head out and let them look back at themselves they have to step out. They have to come to that recognition themselves and that's one of the hardest things. As a friend or as a family member to watch that person, like watching a train wreck it and you know all you can do you know you could press the brakes you you realize how easy it would be. Just eight press, the brakes press, the brig stop, and yet we can't We can't do it. We can't help people can't

you have to help yourself in, and so I mean obviously that pole You know seeing that was a form of you start to take a look at it started. Look at yourself from a different perspective Maybe your abuser dying helped. You start to look at that from a different perspective. Ethnic was, it was a long, slow process for me, though it didn't just happen overnight I mean I, I think, I'm the made a very conscious decision. Not her myself if any more, but you have to teach yourself how to think and feel- and that takes time to teach yourself to have the right kind of thoughts and feelings about things. And one thing that I wanted to say, while I'm here talking about this, is that. Just because I'm sitting here saying that I did this, that I ice woke up and stopped

doesn't mean that. Everyone whose experienced something like this should just get over it. If you have, nurse? If you have a girlfriend or a wife for assist someone who has been through Something like this or maybe after listening to the show, will confess to you that they ve been through something like this. Maybe they ve never told you before. And and maybe they'll tell something that doesn't even seem like got big of a deal. Maybe it's not years and years of abuse or violence Maybe it is something that you happen to them when they are young and its of such

He situation, but it's not it's horrible. It's a horrific, she still feels violated and it's this personal process that you have to go through and and friends and family and people that no someone is struggling with. This definitely need to support in every way they can. But you also don't become a crutch. Just because someone has through something like this doesn't give them the right to drag every one else down with them. In into their pit of depression and misery. So you support the best you can, Without enabling be bad, hey fear, because that's really what it is: it's bad behaviour theirs

people who have gone through. Much more horrific things than anything I have ever been through. That have come out. Fine. And it just getting your mind in the right place and taking control of fear. Your thoughts. No, you know you obviously, experience being being married to a military member, and I would say Along the lines of what you just said is that people are gonna, handle things differently, Then you can have two guys that were on the same exact, combat deployment and did you know pretty much the same things in their decision to deal with in a different way, Maybe one guy gets over pretty quick or maybe one guy barely even react to it be one guy really hurts him and it takes them some time and it sounds like it's the same thing with with. You're saying we have to be. Open to hey. This may take some time, and it may take a different course and.

The exact again to mirror what you just said. There's there's guys that, just because they had some rough combat that doesn't give them the right You number one drag them, drag themselves down the wrong path, a number to drag their family and friends down the wrong path, and- and I think definitely- you know said: hey, look I'd, dont claimed understand what you ve been through. I do know this year. Behaviour is not going to get help it right, the the boy, I wasn't gonna help it. The self abuses and gonna help at the Skippy work isn't gonna help it. So I those are those are those are fairly similar. Again, I don't I'm not trying to say the same thing. I'm just saying that there's that dealing with them has a lot of similarities, both guys combat trauma and people have suffered this type of abuse. It seems like there's some similarities in the way that

that there's varied ways that the added handled there always has to be accountability for your own actions. No matter what you ve, been through you can't just say I've been through something horrible, so I can act like this. Oh you know a case in point before we pressed record today you and I were talking about colonel reader who came on the show and who was a w and he was amazing it and you just think, that guy, you know just has been through he's been through hell and then he Sits there during the cast and says the same thing at you. Just said which is look, I had it But there's plenty of guys had away worse than me an end I think I don't. I can't think of anything worse than a two foot tall bamboo cage in the middle of the of the the jungle with rats eating my wounds with my

shackled into a bamboo shackle. You know that it's just that unbelievable and point. He comes on and says you know number one other people that it rougher than me and number two, Happy for I've got. Move forward, so it. Really wasn't until my kids were born. That I mean this was this was in my mind all the time. I probably, I would say in my mid twenties this prevalent. It was, I probably thought about the abuse at least once every single day. It was always in my mind. And eventually I learned that I didn't need to waste my thoughts on that and learn to spend less time.

Think about it, but it really was until my kids were born. I think, and my daughter was five years old. She was just a little girl. This little girl, And she was the same age should I was when I was already dealing with abuse. And that just made me burn with rage, and I realise that I felt that I had an obligation to speak about this. Did it happens to so many kids so prevalent in not you know. Girls, but also boys. It's not just girls. This is happy happens in higher number two girls by it happens to both, and I felt like.

What I've been through and what I had you know, I think I've come around and am a pretty well adjusted person. Now, and then I had an obligation to talk about this because it something that does you talked about a get swept under the rug and even people who have to happen to get treated like there's something wrong with them and theirs and their impact. Rest and they don't want to talk about it it's time for that, to stop it's time for us to start talking about it, and I am, I feel like I'm resilient. I grew up with this really close proximity to me sure and I've seen animals suffer horrific wounds that should kill them.

They don't have doctors, they'd medicine, but they. A fire in their hearts and they don't feel sorry for themselves and they survive. And I created a lot of my resiliency to my upbringing in nature and observation of nature and how its cruel, Annie, it's beautiful and creatures survive in the most difficult and challenging servants situations and they flourish, and if they can do that, so can I That's that's awesome. That is, Just ass, a man you kind of wet

talking about your kids right to talk about your daughter, You up, you know as you. Got out of that add time in your life. You ended up meeting you of your husband, my four and your husband- and my note here- is that you meeting your husband was the best thing that ever happened to him and and now that's another reason why I will let you know I really wanted to bring you on. And have you share. Some of your experience is obviously the beat, They abuse in your superior survival and you're attitude. About all that, bringing also that strength to in people boys asked. If I would bring my wife- and you know my wife, she's, wonderful, she's, wonderful does not comment on the planet is not her deal. People always want to know because there's a lot of young military families out there and you Norman.

I'm going to say this right now, I'm talk about military families and background. I just want everyone to think. First of all that also applies to you know jobs first responders and an firefighters- maybe not to this end, in fact not to the same degree, but also just normal. You know hard working, Americans, men and women who know you ve got someone that's working hard and gone a lot, dedicating a lot of their job, so that and applies across the board, but being said, you know: you're a military wife, my wife's military, wife and. You. You ended up in a situation where you met your your current husband, whose, like I said a good friend of mine and and I was on my foot. My very first deployment ever back in the day had to fit that when it was, he was on deployment as well, and I think it was his second deployment and yeah. We met and headed off immediately. He gonna grew up,

they grew up and California group on the EAST coast, but we grew up. The similar kind of background, in that we are both kind of in two. Hard core music in metal, punk rock- and we just into the same kind of stuff, and we recognise that immediately about each other, and so we became friends back any we then we spent many years at different teams, and but we we ended up being together at he'll team. Three was indifferent tasks. Than me, but anyways. You got a guy, you ended up being married to a great guy but whose, after a guide to point all the time you didn't come from a military background. You have no turn your life. What was that like ours, it like being welcomed into the military family and the harsh realities of a

married to a military member during a time of war. You I I definitely not from a military family. I don't. I barely knew what a Navy seal was- I wasn't impressed, particularly with the fact that figure with the Navy see ha ha. I think, I'm. Fairly well suited to the lifestyle, because I'm pretty independent and I'm I dont tend to be someone who frets a lot over what might happen. I know that he loves his job and he's is well trained, as he can possibly be to do the job that he does. And so you know that's.

Really, that's really all there is for me, and you know, Worstered moments where you feel a little bit sorry for yourself and thing gosh: what if something happens, what if he comes home without his legs? with half his face, trap, an older something bud. You know I don't. Any more that stuff doesn't get into my head: much And so I don't, I just dont really worry about it when one of the new top about being independent- and I know, have easily your independent first, you could get along by yourself and my wife's. The same way very independent in terms of her. Databases doesn't need me to actually do anything for her, but I wrote down a note just to talk about another level of independence and that's emotional independence, which I think is very important. I think it's something that you know spouses need defined for each other because

think their spouses that become emotionally dependent on each other and that works in a day to day relationship if you're, seeing each other all the time. But if your husband or your wife goes on deployment and leaves you for six months to fourteen months to eighteen months, if you're, in a long deployment cycle, You're not gonna have that emotional short or to lean on it's not going to be there. And so you have to learn how to emotionally, independent now. What scary about this is that Obviously, if you it's so much emotional independence that you're no longer you can lose connection right and so that's what you have to watch out for and I think what you see with, especially with younger married couples, the emotional independence from one person we up to leave through some kind of emotional dependence on some other person that they meet next thing. You know we have a bad situation, so I

Link that emotional independence is something if you talk about with each other, and you say no my wife was one of the best things about my wife is I would I want to talk to my wife: go just not You know I wouldn't send an email he'd be a week two weeks, three weeks, no email, nothing, because I'm over doing my job. And she wouldn't think to herself oh he's talking and send me an email wire. Do emailing me: seventy eight he's busy You know she wasn't dependent on me for her emotion, so I think that's another important peace, that you need to talk about with your spouse. If you're in a military situation, yeah I my husband's pretty good, actually about staying in touch with me and communication on deployments, but it's not because of emotionally being dependent on each other.

Not just the way he is. He values my opinion on things, a law and we talk about things and you know so so we do communicate quite a bit, but I e, I completely know what you mean about The end as as being a wife sitting at home with your husband gone like you, can't just sit there and pine them being gone and wait for them to come home. That's you have to have your own life. You have to carry on while they are gone and that's the best way you can support them. I think if your. Get up cap making them feel bad for not calling you every opportunity you get and laying a gilt trip on them about. You know the fact that

they're, not giving you enough attention and stuff when they've got. You can't do that. You've got to you've, got to just take charge of your own life and and do that. There were now when their way. Obviously that's things you deal with their way and then you have other is that you have to deal with when they come back home, especially during, being a during it hard deployment. Now I know a lot of civilians. Listen to the show was well and it's important to recognise that there are different types of deployment and even during the same time period exam same deployment cycle with two Groups of people of the hundred groups of people, there'll be some people that are in an area in an era of operational will have a mission set that one

allow them to completely coast and and and enjoy themselves now play free diamond, and that can happen and then the other in the spectrum is you can go on deployment and you can think the EU can end up in total violence and chaos and mayhem, and I just thought of this- my first deployment to Iraq we did a lot of operations, it was cool, it was There are really good operations and I got back when I was there was a good man. I wish I were brought my guitar because, You know I had some time and I d like maybe I could apply, play guitar fur. Half hour day, maybe forty five minutes and a couple of the guys what brought their guitar. We could add some jam sessions right and I we were working on your optimal was I we work and we're probably gonna we're doing a probably emission every one, two or three days we were out so next appointment.

I said to myself cool you don't bring us. Are you deal with time? Get work on the work on the rifts sure go back there This point was to remedy and I think life life, and I played guitar so much time we played we break at all. One time when there was like three days left and deployment we broke out of a target area is another task in it there. Now we were turning over but that shows you the difference and we we literally did not have any do any that an and obviously the depressed of combat, oh, my second appointed to Iraq was a thousand times more dance and know that your husband done mould. But the point is well and they varied in stress level, nay, varied and amount of combat and amount of direct combat and his leadership situation. But I know that you know not too long ago he went on department, that was definitely high stress and they they saw a lot of hot, combat end

when he came home from that. What was that? What was out like what did you notice and why Do you think other people should look for So the way first night. He was home from not deploy men. I Woke up in the middle of the night and he was standing over the bad holding a gun and that sort of shock me a little bit and made me realize that I was dealing with something a little bit different. I talked to him on deployment and over the course of the deployment I could hear his voice changing. I could tell that he was. He was changing. It was. It was. Strenuous than there was a lot of engagement and when came back. He just you know when he up. In the middle of the night, his me

response. He just heard a noise dogs barked or something he just jumped for a weapon he just startled easily, and that was his reaction. He had definitely ashore. Tamper little things that he should have been getting mad about, were setting him off you now, just just dumb staff. Somebody would say something or do something, and you would get so mad about it and it was like in I'll take it a notch he started. I want to make it sound like he was doing this in a terrible way, but he definitely started some self medicating with alcohol. You sleep relying on sleeping pills to get. Leap he has never been much of a drinker, I'm not a drink or at all, and so, when I noticed him drinking

more than he normally would every single night. You know that immediately was a red flag to me and then the sleeping pills. You know this, this Ambien is powerful, stuff and and can really be a bad a bad road to go down. Your guys. Definitely get on that. Ambien road and I've seen guys go down that road and just like all the sun, they can't sleep without ambient me out in a mess up. You sleep cycle and everything else. Avenant lay and- and I I I guess there's times when people need it, but I think I think guy the military slip real really easily from a guy that needs it to a guy. That's just doing it because they're starting rely upon it yeah for share in it. Weird that you talk about a mood. You said the old Dame Berkeley but he was on the ground lesson remedy for, however deployment and saw,

air control or on the ground, with with my dad, did a lot of work with my task unit in Romania and user use everything pilot. He was, you know, top gun echo. Just thanks, you straight up Tom Cruise, but he was on the ground lesson remedy for, however deployment and saw a lot of stuff and any in some very intense direct combat an exam happy what you just said like couple things you he said when he would he was to when he got home and he got the car with his wife in There's mom he's in there ten minutes, and they were having a normal competition already yelled at me, like his temper, was just short so there the temper, the increase, tempers, that's one thing, people definitely get and the other, thing the startle response, which was which Dave talked about as well. As you know, he heard air gun for putting the put no war. Not a car use walkin by a garage and semi fired off in Aragon and grab his wife and ground right. He was

he's a while. He was doing he already realised what am I doing, but it to lay action, so those are things to watch out for and then what about? What about the? I know you talked about the sleep pattern normally and so you know I started to see the stuff. No, it's like this. Isn't this isn't a road that we want to go down, and so I told him that I thought he really needed to go, see a psych and luckily in the seal teams, there's good access to that and also portion ITALY My husband listen to me. Luckily, for hair behemoths cheap. Values my opinion and if I say something is amiss, then he believes that something is amiss

and so he went and saw the site and I think, Doc parsley. I think you ve talked about him before he robbed helped him to get on to just a healthy, asleep cycle, cut out all. The medication he doesn't take any medication at all, any more, never never any sleep pills or anything started, taking like some herbal supplements and stuff, and Dixon Alpha brain now. An end. It didn't take long. He will he do. You know him If you appointments with the site that definitely help them to realise that guy he was was acting normally because I don't think when these There's come back, you don't you ve, already been used to war operating on Elevated level for a while and you don't realize You're, not you don't home with your rife in your case

the ten year still trying operate on that level. It's like dancing about the boil, a frog thing. You know where the use that's normal to you, it's normal. You dont sense it. When you overseas you just are getting wrapped up in wrapped up. In your stated, this heightened state all time and everything is. Intense. All the time but you ll notice it. You come home. You notice that it's an couldn't be liked her right now. Yeah, that's words are really important fur family, spouses and stuff to keep an eye on these guys and hopefully channel them in a good direction when they get home. As opposed to a you know, I had I not stepped in and I mean my husband's he's he's been so for a long time. He's he's been through a lot of stuff, but you know he. He definitely could have gone down a road that wouldn't have been healthy for him or his career,

No doubt about that one. I just remembered this one I think It was either right after you met here. Bed What right after you moved down here. I think, outside drunk as our talk about where you guys were living. You know out, then you guys had proper and Bob Property epicurean property, and you had horses and everything else that we know what what made you move out here in offices is awesome and his idea, My wife told me she wouldn't come down here unless I got her a property with horses on it, and here we are like awesome. That's killers. Yeah. It then you know. Talk a little bit about your kids and how that how that helped you but you in the meantime, as you were, having kids when you got down here, you started straight up farming yet I mean I thought I was a kid. Mission to him, how in me was that I was not going to put my horse

in a stable and goes then, once in a while, they were going to come with me and we needed land for them too. Be horses, wild horses, like they re used to being in Sao, could be seen. Hickey may that has more, but he made a day daddy may to happen, and we got a great eighteen acre piece of property and we ve got five fat horses now out in the field. Every time I look out and I never farmed before. I had always been a horse wrangler and. I started just growing a little garden now, like I love this and I heard about a cs, a programme which is basically where you grow a like you a bunch of stuff and you sell a box of whatever your farm is producing every week to people who pay. You know they'll pay to get their box of fruits and vegetables, and I was like all I can do that I could get a few p.

And start to do that. So I did. I start out with like ten families that I'd do boxes for hand. Realize that I really liked it and gave me a lot of focus when he was deployed me, a lot of something to really throw myself into and focus on. She wasn't a picnic needing playing? Listen, I'm gonna run a may like that, and then you know we. We had kids kind of right right, around the same time and so Thou hast Thou is little challenging itself to be trying to like get this farm up and going in being you know. In the beginning, you talked about me being like nine months pregnant out. They are working in gas turnouts. What I read your buddy was awesome. You know I loved it and I've I've managed to build up a pretty decent, though business, and

There is nothing that I find more rewarding in life than growing good food. There's something about it. That's and for my husband to like I do most of the technical farm work he's more of my farm boy Maybe maybe yeah it's very therapeutic for him. I think when he comes back from deployments and stuff and he will he can just kind of let all that go by. In in this natural surrounding with physical labour. To do every day you don't need. I think you ve talked about this before you. Don't need sleeping pills when you work yourself.

Hard, you all the sleeping, your buried. I will go to sleep at night. I don't think I set my us my boy out there, like we're friends on the pointed out some my boy out there to do slave labour after the variable. Let him learn about an honest day's work sweep outside its up. You know One of the things you you written- and this is you know different topic- different the different article that you'd written and items can a readable a little a little chunk of it because I love it here we go This is about you know, being on the farm with you. With your now this, You said your your one darted here we go. My garden. Helper turns one year old this week. I remember one life was simpler when I could work in the garden all day uninterrupted. When I could

weep when I wanted to be out of the house by the early morning. But I didn't laugh nearly as much my heart in his large. I was more selfish. These days are slow, this baby and I there are so Many little breaks, we take things we get distracted by things them be learned. I feel lucky to accomplish one or two small tasks in a day now. That is enough, though we age? There is no where she would rather be than in the garden. Makes me happy to see her dirt? Red face smile gotten past everything having to be clean, child be a little wild letter x. Periods, the taste of dirt, the few

Of leaves mud and water. At her grow in the garden like an artichoke rim bumptious and beautiful. She laughs out loud, throwing her head back. To pointed the birds she squeals with delight when she gets hold of the cat and crawl, like mad to get out of the way of the sprinkler There is nothing that can be replaced by toys, nothing Can be learned from books or videos, parks or playgrounds. This is my sweet child sweet as Honeysuckle blossom dirt and all. That's good stuff, bringing those kids up on the on the farm. And you know.

Continuing down man, you gotta bring it up to through the present Europe Does the article that you wrote about abuse? Can you kind of talked about where right now. I'm gonna hit that the person that I am now, I'm fine really proud of considering. I carry very few scars from my past other than the physical ones that are key into my skin, I am come. We'll talking about abuse. I can look at pictures of my abuser in. Very little I mean Married to a kind of courageous hero of a man, I've built up beautiful farm, Our two amazing young children, who I will protect with my life. Which is really where the story begins. The children.

Look around you. Please look at your own children and other children that you see. Look at your friends and relatives and watch their interactions closely. We fear so many ridiculous things in life. But we do fear the most common dangers to children, nearly enough. We like think of child molesters strangers, not the people we know and love into our lives daily, stay vigilant, trust. Your gut instinct. If something seems off remit, or even very young children can keep tremendous secrets. This is uncomfortable, but sometimes on Double things need to be handled head on until they no longer have the power. That's Greasy and silence gives them thanks for listening,

Pre share and keep the children safe. And then- and we know we ve talked through some of this but kind of wanted. Just you you kind of laid out and you ve. About it already know just do it, we discussed so far, but I think it's worth covering again from Europe Active yours, on on how to keep children safe and some other things to watch out for in some of to do here we go. I think, best answer is talk about a comfortable topics early and often just have the talk with kids talk to them on a regular basis about their bodies, sex predators, consent. If they never hear you talk about it, it's to be harder for them to bring it up to you. I communication is difficult. Many families remember it's not up to the kids to do it as an adult,

You have to initiate hard conversations regularly don't, ever assume your kid is too young for something to have happened to them. It can literally happen in a few minutes with a friend or family member when you are out of the room. Asked them, if you ve ever been touched inappropriate and we're in a way that made them feel uncomfortable, then, ask them again and again, a few days later. Bring it up casualty. The second time hey. I was thinkin some more about that conversation. We had the other day. Give them time to process and decide if they can handle telling you do not. Kids to hug and kiss people if they are resistant to it, even family members. This is it. But that they should be familiar discussing with you, everyone, what's it like it's this our secret, that we can't talk about that kids feel like they can't talk about it either.

Take every opportunity to bring it up in conversation, a new story, a Facebook post, a friend dealing with issues, talk about what's going on and why may think that we are doing our kids a favour by keeping this horrible stuff from them, but the city Sticks and Women who have spoken out here prove that most likely Your child or grandchild will have to deal with it alone. If you Proactive. If you have for female children or grandchildren, her nieces chances are at least one has or will be molested. Some kids just one talk no matter what be observant. And if anything ever seem slightly off, follow your gut instinct. If a child Our team tells you they haven't been touched, her molested, don't take there word for it

It can be amazingly good at keeping secrets and that's I think it's just a great list for people to think about to put put into action and really I'm getting a great example to live by, so that you can. Be aware of this stuff ever happens, I want the subjects to be normalized a lot more than it is. You know, yeah, it's a horrible thing to talk about, and it's hard to talk to your kids about it by We have to make it more normal, not only for kids, but for the

millions of adults that are out there who ve been through it and still don't talk about it. When I first posted what you read, I posted on Facebook and I had a ton of people send me private messages telling me their own portable story People that I knew people that were friends of Franz people that I didn't know it all and I was shocked by a few of them. Well that I knew who had whore Bull stories, kids that I went to high school with that I knew during the time that their abuse was also going on, told me some things and everyone just deals with it and doesn't feel like they can talk about it and that's it.

It's not right, and so I hope that my coming on here and an bringing this to lie in being the In that. I am. Saying: hey. Let's have a honest conversation about this, help someone else, even if one or two other people decide that they can change their life for the better, because they hear someone addressing this honestly or one or two other people look at their aids and the interaction that their neighbour or their brand or there. Grandpa uncle somebody how with their kids and realizes that there's something not quite right. Then everything that I've been through is worth it because I will have used my experiences to help someone else.

Well definitely appreciate that we focused a lot on that today and again, I you as a as military wife I also wanted to take up moment to recognise all those. Military wives out there that hold the line all their husbands, oars deplore, Overseas harm's way and I wrote something for one Daughters. At this point One of my daughter's was quite frankly, not treating my wife with the kind of respect that my wife deserves. You know it typical teenager stuff a role the eyes, a flippant comment. Basically,

young adolescents girl with young adolescents attitude what you talked about earlier. No, no one can tell me anything. I know everything. And in her mind You know my wife was just some lady that. Did the laundry got the groceries and cook dinner. And that's how she treated and. So I wrote this: for my daughter, But I wanted to read it for everyone: and I want it, they created not just to my wife but all the military wives. Out there. Holding the line on the home front, This is what I wrote my daughter. Your mom

I wanted you to know a little bit about your mom. Your mom was achieved. Be in horse rider. He wrote Cross country, races, show jumping and she did Fox hunting. She cared for our horses every day, clean them, train them and took care of them. She won, many victories. Your mom worked since she was little starting in restaurants. First peeling potatoes, then bussing tables, then cleaning than wager sing to make money your mom went to an extremely good college. Her parents didn't pay for it. She through college is a waitress to pay your own way. When your mom got done with college. She took the money she saved and back around the world

You went to Thailand, Malaysia, Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand and a bunch of other places. While do that she worked as a waitress, another odd jobs. So she could make money. In pay way. When your mom got done. Travelling the economy was bad and she couldn't find a job. So she went overseas and worked at an airline. As a flight attendant which is a hard, thankless job serving on For passengers on planes she didn't like it, but she did it. When I met your mom for the first time she was the most beautiful girl I had ever seen. When I talk to her she,

the nice is person, I've ever met. And she was funny and sassy and sweet, and I knew immediately that I wanted to marry her. So your mom picked up everything and left and came to be with me in America we moved into a tiny one. Bedroom apartment with me she was wonderful. She was adventurous, she served with me and she trained. You did with me every day and worked out with me. Every day gotta Bluebell Jujitsu. She worked as an executive assistant in a real estate office and got a real estate licence. With skiing and hiked mountains and camped under the stars in the mountain, and we were dancing at night. She was amazing.

I got orders to move to Virginia. She instantly packed up everything we had and quit her job and moved across country when got to Virginia should gotta talk, job working for an insurance company, Course I was in a sealed platoon, so I travelled all the time and was gone all the time and she never complained. One day she told me she was pregnant, That was you. Was so happy And the day after you're bored, I live Dont appointment for seven months she did everything by yourself- I was gone. She now. Complaint. Did you say: a picture every day of you. When I got home from the point, she was already back in shape and looked amazing. The navy gave me orders back to California without

Word your mom pact away, all of our stuff quitter job and we move back to California. I worked went to school. I never got up in the night to help. They carry you. It was always your mom. Every time. She changed. Every diaper made every meal tried every tier read every good night book. I work Went to school and trained jujitsu, she never complained one single time. Soon she told me she was pregnant again. That was your first sister. When you first sister came now everything that your mom did for you. She had to do for your sister to every day. Every meal every tier, every little book red. Was working and going to school and training she Walked you both

to you and took you to parks and play groups, dancing lessons in swimming lessons and craft fares. She did everything for you. She didn't get to surf anymore, or do you It's you any more work out or hike with me any more. She devoted all that time to you, her kids, who she cherished. She never complained or wind or asked for anything. Then she got pregnant again this time it was your brother He kept doing everything for you when she got her morning, sickness, throwing up dizzy and carrying around a baby in her belly. Sheeting complain ever she was in the bathroom, sick and throwing up. She would apologise to you and you said you and your sister that you girls had to see you like that.

Then the war started I went back to the seal teams. Went to Iraq for six months. I was working so much that I barely got time to write. Your mom always wrote me here we're complained about anything She did everything by herself everything I was taken care of my seal platoon and she took care of you three little kids. She cleaned everything made every meal changed. Every diaper dried, every tier took Two lessons and parks and doctors, appointments and read to you every night and major lunches and got groceries. She did is all by herself. No in was to help out no grandparents around just her alone.

When I came home, things didn't get any better. I just started getting ready to go back to Iraq. Again. She didn't complain. Some guys had to worry about their families, their wives, who complain and cry and file for divorce and fight over the kids. I never worried about that at all. Mom took care of everything and never made me have to worry about you, kids or her or anything else. Last appointed to Iraq. I was gone almost seven months, left, your mom alone again with you, three kids. Some of my men were wounded and killed. Your mom went to the hospital to visit the wounded men and went to the funerals of my friends.

Your mom knew at any time. It could be me that was wounded or killed, She never complained She cried with the moms of my friends. She gave Support where she could, but she never asked me to stop or come home or leave early or even be safe, never. She never asked me to give anything to her. She knew. I had meant to take care of. She told me not to worry about her or all you, kids. She only told me to do my best at my job and take care. My friends on the battlefield. Most seals get divorced. Almost ninety percent there is too much

pressure and separation and distance and too many challenges and many women can't take it. So they leave. Your mom never wavered. She four had an issue or a complaint, no matter what happened or when I came home or when I left for what I did. She supported me always and she took care of you kids every day, every night, every moment. Every need you had with her responsibility. She never asked for thanks or appreciation, and when it was her birthday or our anniversary, she would tell me not to get her anything. So we could save money. When I got home from my last appointed to Iraq, your mom got pregnant again,

That was your youngest sister and she did it all again morning, sickness die diapers, sleepless nights puke in the bed, peed on the floor, chicken pox, lice tears, scrapes, bumps and bruises teacher conferences, school lunches, everything. She never complained about it. I was still working preparing. And for war and travelling all the time and she continued to take care of you, kids. So I could do my job. Your mom is stuck with me through hell has been hard. Your mom has been married to this hard headed frogman for seventeen years, been through multiple war time deployments she's Me when I was sick or injured, and she has done the same for you- she is-

it, because she is strong and determined and she loves our family more than anything in the world. Your mom is an incredible person and amazing woman and I warship her is everything I ever wanted, so. Will you get the chance, you should tell your mama, you love her, that you know how much she has done for you and for our family and that you appreciate everything that she has done for us and for you, I hope, You grow up and have some of the same qualities. That possesses strength. Honor Intelligence, dignity

Selflessness respect determination and kindness. That's your mom. And I hope you realize how blast you are to have her. And that's the note that I wrote to my daughter and the others. Some people that say per woman, can do anything that a man can do. But I don't know if that's true or not, but

can tell you this. I dont know of too many men back and do what my wife has done and what thousands Other military wives done when I want to recognize how blessed we are as a nation to have these women out they're holding the line on the home front. Job and yes, it is a job that is under way. Nice and overlook all the time in Iris Like my own wife, I think you are a stellar example of this thinking. No thank you for

What you have done for your family, but also what you have done, Our country is supporting your husband in your family and and obviously thank you for coming here today to to teach all of us about a subject that we all need to know? More, about not just abuse but, of determination, and on top of that, Determination to overcome what you experienced in your life, but the determination to keep a family together and protect the protectors it's been

it's been an incredible honor to be here and and thank you guys for stepping out of box a little bit with me and getting this out there and and talk him out some of the stuff. And I love you know what you wrote Turning to your daughter and your wife is still stunning a beautiful and very kind. She is indeed- and it's you know, Haven't you on a par gas, was a no brainer high. I Probably we did three or four months to broach the subject with your husband. I was waiting for the right moment in he said something to me about. It knows I cannot Hey if she ever just have I wanna come on. Let me know- and he answered me in thirty seconds- it wasn't his answer. He said I just doktor, she's gonna go get Alzheimer S. The progressive everyone daughter! Thank you guys.

Speaking of the pod Gaston. Echo Charles, I mean if somebody wanted to support this podcast. Is there any way they can do that there is actually is. Can we talk? These heavy things this candidate the time to decompress little bit little bit, We can talk about supporting the pod, that I agree that the heiress yeah, I think so most it. Let's talk what supporting or self now, look good, actually a lot of it like being like a strong military wave in August up. Even just a normal, And you know this, I want to say this to you. I didn't say that There's military husbands as well, definite and and they're they're doing all that stuff. I talked about I was talking about wives, because that's what I deal with I dealt with my wife. You know an and you're a military wife, the guys

after holding down the fort and also those guys that are married to police officers, I know that that gets foot sometimes and and respect respect the equally challenging for anybody? That's that's holding down afforded home. So yet the concept yes you know like especially when you're dealing with kids and that responsibility is on me or whatever, and I thought I'd mention this before, where it's easy to fall into that kind of mindset where you're making it about yourself. Now you know where you have kids, and he I got a chance. I changed the last time you know, but if you notice talking about yourself. The diaper gotta get changed regardless, but you're like focusing on the fact that you had to do anything so not that you're wrong, but you chose to make it a voice. So the less you make it about yourself and more about the mission, the family, the shortened whatever it is, it you're doing the straw

Are you going to have the like the capability to beat unique and like solve the problems in accomplished? So that being said, make it, but our selves for second by supporting ourselves, so this kind of a fleet in Iceland. You know how like in the in the airplane, they say, support yourself before we support the kid I put the ox Europe has led the oxygen mean because where yourself you have more capability of supporting others to anything. You story right, This white, like the strong Ngos, all excited, he's, got iris oversees the greens he's like blown, you look at it. I wish now, because you know she mentioned up our bright. All these things and I said taking more bring by the way. I noticed that today you are sharp what your crisp with the thoughts yeah yeah. I felt like a bit distracted, not necessarily here but just in life, I couldn't like focus on

the thing that like make videos or what and I ve been making videos, but I have noticed a skirt zammit. We like them anyway, if you're working out You want supplemented action, not some soup. In the work out which actually em down for now. I wasn't a supplement percent before, as I said before, but now I am cause they're supplements, like krill oil,. No Strongbow Strawn bone is that for lake bones to It might be, but I guess I don't Oh my bones seem strong. I dont breakin very often, but my joints want help. So I take it further dig over the joints. Could you figure does usually one like your tend in detail like our written Sadly, however, the tending ripping off the boat. So figure joints struck. Maybe that's the strong bone.

Is that the parties I won't make homework do sorry search get back to me anyway. If you want the good supplements crude oil your joint, that's a big one, in my opinion, in Jockers opinion, my opinion Myers, whose opinion many essential sorry whether working out or whether you are actually working on the fortieth. All of it. That's a good one, but is for supper. Let's go you know, you get the good ones when you get on at once, you ve gone ten percent off on it, doc, unflushed Jacko, my joints. Here's a thing like the offered US bustle, krill oil, whenever its applicable in my mind and we were. We always talk about real oil now, but the idea, An indicator indicator always on my mind, because Ok, I'm talking to regulate the other day Griggs on the cruel

we're talking should be its afterward. He should be there we're talking we're talkin a while about stuff or whatever those it's time to go, we get up Greg it was like tat. Now I understand you didn't have to make that noise, but he made that noise is an indicator. Indicate very exacting is currently somebody order that may prolonging the horizon exactly what I thought I'd say nothing, but that's what I did. Anyone Leave me be maybe you'd like while you're right, I don't want you to fresh, so let us make this just for this whole advertisements for greater and greater given the real ill. You and you won't. Less about making that kind of noise or not making the notice the feeling that compelled him to make a noise. That's the important point of great wanted. Ten percent off. Now then

they help this along love. It! Ok! If he chose to get ten percent on a dot com, Slash Jacko the Flash Jacko that support they give you ten percent on all your stuff, even if you like protein powders and whatnot with which is good too, whether look there see what were you know because it depends your lifestyle is using. Does you get it my drift. Ok, the overdue that's a good way to support yourself and the pod guest and, ultimately everyone around you. Actually everyone in the world he regained the world will be more support and ultimately, like the butterfly affecting our like us talking it'll effect. China later Amazon click through that's a good way to support you better way. So what that does? Is you know before you? Do you shopping? You click to the website. Jocko podcast com duck the tab on the top banner and the bottom line.

With the banner I'm only saying this because people like me up about it and the say: hey, I don't see that their your banners not there on the website. If you have an ad blocker, which is running out by the way. Just generally speaking, you given ad blocker it'll block certain like things and sometimes that then it will fall within the confines of things that the ad Hocker blocks, will you know what We can also change our whole attitude here and make the full focus of the podcast in the website and everything we were doing to get people to get into the give us money. We're not gonna. Do that right so, like now that I'm thinking in talking egos about him like man, should really go change it. But when I go home, oh, you know other places and thinking about getting after you think about making what have you? So you remember so maybe the good thing. Maybe that's a bad thing, but nonetheless those are the facts as of right now, but

matter because there's a town on the top, like I said, click on our growing support takes three seconds: small action I support that that one's been giving big reaction. And in some other supports China, you can all, as is the butterfly thick looking it's like it. It's real through You can subscribe to the pot gas in this. On any podcasting providing platform. Google play Itunes, of course, sticker Yeah you can write or of you to which I've some I've read some alive reviews on here of of Kuwaiti, but I might do that with the particle together. Some, can go on there too. I was actually Do your facebook live and reading the comments on a picture that Joe Rogan posted to me

because there are some forty cabinets, yes report pro comedians out their rovers, and I want to make fun of my head but they're worth reading. You know there was a member that video that we made longer even might have been better for the first part, guess you maybe out anyway, made it and it was about martial arts train earlier in your email. What's: the best harsher self defense all this stuff right. So I revisited. Then this is a while ago, there's like millions of this over a million views on that right so with he's, come comments like that and typical yeah. You know it's usually no reproductive to spend much time in the comments section on Youtube, but later, use a lot of comments. Let's see what and it's not like people who ve necessarily follow Jocapa. Guess that's the thing random. So you get a poor little like variety of people. The other some interesting ones in there,

quote any or nothing save any by Saint chose begins interesting. Nonetheless, back do so drive into the progress on Youtube. Yet we have. To tell if you like, the video version of this spot gas, something like people know what you look like there. And I were, but a smaller percentage of people know what I look like. I'm not encouraging. You don't watch the video to see what I look. I'm not saying that Echo doesn't look like when he sounds like you death penalty, different than you sound. Did you have you ever seen him before today? I've seen pictures that online, and I was surprised when I did, because you sounded sort of well now they would you sound like hidden, sound away. I wish you luck, will assume the debts, something like that one day a mixed white and latino, not hipster skating ass. Something

a real specific, MRS Kuhn, I'd. I dig it while the. I guess it's because you have a weird background: Bina Hawaiian. What are you half black half white guy yeah me not to split hairs, but there's some native American in their native lawyer sides, but see none of that has nothing to do with the way you talk that way. You tar less well dark someone northward yea, it does but you're gonna be quiet and then leaving here and then all the time. All this John, Bulgaria me anyway, after the. If you want to see what he looks like a jack, very interested in something like that. If that interests, you subscribe to you too, gentle might facilitate Gus. Conversely, I look like what people think I'm gonna to look like what I look like so either. You do also also, looks aside

what we do now is, and we ve been doing this for a little bit is take a little excerpted of the little less It will put em on theirs. Wealthy can sheriff. You know, easier than sharing the whole podcast having people receive it, because you can't just listen to two and a half hours on a whim. You know, but three I'd have to kind of schedule that you got a schedule. It s exactly three minutes, so no schedule. Nowhere does give us play right now. The lesson herb the individual life approved good girl, you rock n roll. Yes exactly! So that's really the goal there, and you know I gotta like people have said Joseph people been asking me if one person, in my case people have been saying, like that's good dab those ones. Because some people they don't listen to the bikers like the first day there are like ice, the kind of a schedule even living somebody, even we allow commuters, listens car, but you know happened our commute

to take you in a few days to hear the whole broadcast, but you might have been a little nugget you needed for work that money to actually right yet there some people say that helped me that day like the college, one that you talk about how to approach college there, yet but I wish you had that when you approached college. I wish I had all this really what I approached. Thing in life, but yes, the college. So yes, read the you two men, that's that's good, that's a good way to support and that's another with spare yourself in a way can indirectly and then, if you weren t shirts at any point, you wanna represent a little bit that some cool tee shirts. I think the vertical approved their approval quite literally all approve and without a new t, shirt out which you are wearing at this time. I like it, it's real complex its

How can it says get after it? Technically it's a charcoal, Heather but It is what it is. Is usually more to him kind of meets the eye. We call that Larry. Tropical sense, but yeah. You know if you want to support that way, that's a good way and you get a t, shirt They were very wearable. That's the thing they're, not the cheap. Part giveaway shirts there, like good, very wearable, multiplication peoples. My favorite you're too, where because of the fifth people, are telling you that people every single day and all day, yeah, I'm telling you women's on that women stuff on their shirts patches, rash guards I'm gonna put out an escort here pretty soon, not that that's like supposed to get everyone a benevolent Dems, yeah, it's good

cities are on. There is well- and you know if you like any this stuff I'd say: that's it just look at it. If you choose to support, be Felix aboard if you like, representing get somethin. A good way to support and also this. What am I were about to tell you, could very well border on essential. Now, it's like one, things were ok, so psychological warfare, doc lemme go into it, so you know how, like, let's say, getting after it I'm gettin after I'm getting after it, I started increased oil. I start thinking. Grill oil jacket, there's nothing in crude oil. Maybe someone outcomes in based are getting after. They started meanwhile urine taking the grill oil. We're gonna go ahead of you know. You said a little soft jive conceptually, that's a big deal. Some cycle dick warfare. What that does is gay psychological dwarf is an album with tracks with jock on their put simply joy.

Go on helping you through any moments of weakness that you may have on you're getting after it, Waking up early in the morning every day, sleeping on the diet, crashed in all these things. They do you're, saying tat: if you got just the procrastination, one procrastination is one of those things. It's a massive problem with people right people all over the world have a massive problem with procrastination. Think of how easy it is to overcome that it The easiest thing is the easiest thing to overcome psychological yeah you do just go. Do the what yours procrastinating, it's already, what you want is not like. You have to work over procrastination, just just crush it. Yeah go is back on the other. Or blossomed whatever, when I said like either.

Which it to manual just an for progress nation you just can switch to manufacture. Like literally two secular, want to pull me, then you then, who isn't your starting right, yeah you're doing it. There were no longer progress in here. You know by it Don't you see battle to win and were what a battle that so many people face and lose and lose its yet one one of like psychological things, You gonna go to declare war on and, in that case, engaging in psychological worth Nonetheless, this, the a good with okay, so back to my point about whenever one starts getting after then you're, not so I'd want to. That agreements are due regard. Warfare cause me, you can listen to it in, like I want to make our own oppresses news. You can't listen to wake up one of restructuring. You get listen to that end, then now we got beat you can't. You build the faces of the on those things is like that strong

play everyone's doing that your kind of left behind. If you're, not that's how I feel like. If I'm not doing it, you know I'll, do it, even if I feel like working at all still listen to it, give you a little kick little. Kick psychological warfare Jacqueline. I did at the very outset, audio books. Yesterday, it still number one by the way number, one on spoken word I want you getting on it Yemen's been that way. Since it came out the zero every one of your telling me get after it they're getting after part of my point: eight their lives, you gotta, do it. Also on cooking you're clicking through Amazon You can also get jock await tee and ears. A bottom line we They did that left more. Yes, right, don't play around? If you order you doc away t you're gonna boost your dad left to approximately eight thousand And ass, they rather than you think, eight thousand pounds is heavy, in another. You know,

Units of measurement is four tonnes. Europe, you, I think, that's good man, that's really good! You wanna do way the warrior kid by the way it's not even pre order, any more it comes out. May second right, xo common out soon boom. Order it now and save a child. Smasher bully save yourself smashed ups. That's that's your normal Sweden as the portuguese history and so does the playground there in the kids are disk. Running a mark! You let him this parents in there and One Katy was big o any that look on his face. I'm nothing is a bully Walker and he was like grabbing another gallon of his brother- I don't know if he was bullying them or helping them or whatever, but you could tell

like within all the little kids, because you know there's some people, there like there's a line for this little thing and the kids get on it like it is not a merry go round its a thing sitting so. Some kids are real assertive they'll, be they all? my turn cutting the line not realising this align. Whenever then there's some kids will stand in line and they'll just sort of let people rise cut and then there's some kids were like always and though explain. There's a line in only can see the different levels for people so like something like this. That's gonna turn you into another person. Who's gonna, like the leader gonna turn your to move leader. Kenny. Williamson might have been out. Burke anyone's is a bully content out, interestingly I'm doing there's a lot of asked questions. Who should read the audio for this right, cause it I was thinking I will read the whole thing. Then some people said a you know: Jacko you're, not a kid. And its kids voices in the first person of force kidney mark so I couldn't red brick

sport, I decided you know what a mockery the whole the kids part, but does it character in their named uncle Jake. Now Uncle Jake. He was a seal, he's good common, how bout and I decided. Maybe I could read Uncle Jake parts I did things again and then we got a kid reading. The kids part- and I think you find out who that is- and I think to be some layers behind that that part so yeah, way the warrior kid. You can order that now you can also get discipline, equals freedom field manuals coming out, what's a field manual, something that you allows you to take, information and put it into action. That's it that's a discipline, because freedom feel Minos. Gonna do comes out October. Seventeenth, my You might that's a long ways way, but so did may second, but this things going on around the corner. So The few manual its

sickly vis podcast in a book. You can't bring this progress into the field with you. I guess you can put it on your headphones. You can't begin, but sometimes you need visual Jews. So. That's what it is. The faults the things from the past, but that it also has very specific additional information like work out. Sleep the strategies- Marshall. Arts you everything, that's cool in world? It's all about! You or you can do that stream ownership? You can by the way. Why is extreme ownership? still one of the top books on Amazon, an Itunes, an audible a year and a half after came out. Why is that is because the big advertising campaign that we did know it's not because of its purely because award a mouse over this? Listen this right now, that's bind it for other people and spread. The word causa you. That's all some appreciated three Motor ship Amazon.

Why is it not our on paper back yet? Do you want to know why you know why It's not our own paper back, because people ask me wisely on paper. Bag is not repaper back yet because Books come out on paper back when they are selling the hard governing They re release a perversion here, doesn't paper back now, it's only nine. Ninety five. They haven't done that with our book. Yet why people still want the hard? red still selling, and the reason for that is because, because it work because people get a lot out of it. So if you don't have extreme ownership or if someone that you know. Doesn't have extreme ownership. Just like that. A tell Gregg TRAIN, he needs gruel. Tell you tell your subordinate leader or your superior leader or members of your team. Tell em a ban on mutual somewhere. Forty opium ownership And if you need. Some more extreme ownership,

your team company contact whatever year, you can contact our company echelon front life Bab and myself Dave Burke, J, p d, no leadership, amendment consultants, gonna bring us on board contact info on echelon, front dot com, And also along the same vein, if you dont know, we have the muster coming up: number zero, zero too in New York City at the Marianne Grand Marquis your leadership on you will become a better leader period, waves gonna be there maybe he's gonna, be there David he's gonna, be there was to be there ECHO Charles is going to be there in a tone of people in the past and that we work with are gonna, be there come and get it will see there and until we do get the muster. If you want to

communicate with us. You can find us crossing on not enter webs. Now. First of we're on twitter we're on Instagram. You can also find us on the facebook you can find us there so iris. Yes, for Facebook, where you out you can follow my farm on primeval its primeval gardens on Facebook. Instagram. Then I'm on twitter Only iris gardener- and I just told Iris, sign up for that, the sporting nodded to an urban. I will I'll I'll bet. Sweet terrorists did to me to use it If you sign up for twitter, no Beyond then, bunch people were like asking. The question is whether there that's what makes it cool you can communicate with all these different people and they can give you good information. They can t what books to read in their day. What speeches to listen to- and I can tell you what you two biggest check out- they can tell you what you did scripts awesome.

Is a great way of communicating with a bunch of people saying I declare twitter down because you're not like tat, can t they sent messages with what pigeons right now in recent years carrier the will to do it. So it's like when you send someone a message: it's called the tweet younger ones that have to imagine without tweet. I don't know the details of the birds, tweeting messages, that's what twitter is passing through it, the birds and messages the rights which we have an animal expert, they ready to change the name of twitter tonight. Well, yeah we'll know they have to change the name of tweet tweeting, the active tweeting too. To that noise, yeah cooing between us, but the fullest messages interests that we scenario.

Nothing else for us today, yeah you sing. You dad made gold bars there, big were the bark because you know you little. Maybe there a second stuck with the You know that little like I should like like crop gold, can crumbs right. First, You get your little frank relax pieces when you crush up- or Yet, if you like, going in there streams increase you'll come out with golden targets which are naturally forming larger. But when you're crushing a bore, you just get little tiny flux of gold and then you will find it down into a bar and out remember, I think you know they do a minute. A few ounces to whatever ISIS makes sense to sell you. The word gold bar you thinking you know like on the movie, your watch, three I not like. Now I got ten pounds.

Iraq or whatever it is, but yeah smaller bars, sprinkle that your firefox does it also IRA anything else you want to close out with GOSH now, just thanks for thanks for doing the same. Forget me on Heron Loveless, the ship why I listen to I'm out working get after it. I need to get after it sure, though I was like going over your house cuz, do you and your husband, you wanna, expand. The conversation in port stuff out to me and ask about this always awesome. Tabby guys, listen, but thank you anything else. I think we'll get well Obviously, thank you for coming on Thirdly, having its awesome by the its Korea. You, some brave and really helpful for a lot of people. I hope so and

Thank you for that. Thank you for giving us a warning that. That evil can hide anywhere, under our noses and link around and trying to corrupt those that our closest to us. So thanks for telling us to hug our children to hold our children and to watch our children. Closely and also thank you for reminding us once again that in the end. Evil cannot win if We decide that we will not let it.

Because if we confront the darkness, if we stand up with courage, and we ve look upward toward the sky. The white will shine on our faces and wash out the darkness and bring us warmth and hope that happiness. And thank you for showing us once again that even with the evil in the darkness of the world, And even with this, Scars that they can leave Even still. Even with all that.

This life. His sweet as the Honeysuckle blossom dirt and now so until Next time this is iris and ECHO and Jacko out.