Krystal & Saagar are the hosts of Rising, an American daily news and opinion web series produced by Washington, D.C. political newspaper The Hill.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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by my area were Rowan without good to see the cage out its own weird to meet somebody. When you watch allow the EU to contact or actually be continent, then you like you're a real touch, I feel about you, but we all feel about each other. It's very Edison announced I am guilty. I love you guys. You think you are saying we felt the same pressure, You guys are honest, we're we're talking about that. Only like it so rare that someone is just calling it like. It is like what you see, and obviously don't agree on everything and no one does but right. We all have varying opinions, but you say what you feel, and that is solved You will today it's so unusual. It's such a weird
partisan time it is a weird, partisan time like it's never been harder to. Actually just do that thing and I can't say mean we don't get it right all the time, but the whole idea was to try to have this conversation between kind of the new left in the new right that wasn't happy. Got any anywhere in a way that was valuing people's humanity. That trying to deal in the land of the honest, not sure leading a team or the other, but actually trying to lake be straightforward about what we face. In evaluating the facts as we find them, and I mean I have to say, like you somewhat created that space, where that can happen, so I think were in part, indebted to you. Yes, absolute Lee, and you know it's crazy. I think the reason it works is because we, both kind of came up in clause. I traditional ground bright, like crystal came from MSNBC World like I was a White House correspondent like I will to the lot of these traditional reporters- and I mean I would you fox NEWS and and always a things and you just always so frustrating when you're on tv, you get three and a half minutes to talk. Rightly
wants to the segment on internationalism, which was to two and one slash, two minutes with three people on a on a panel. That's how are you supposed to get your point across? and so when year, when you're doing that- and you see like you- can make an entire career DC just sticking to the party line, no matter what these people believe in you spit out. The talkers literally send you they will send you talking points they do. They all run. Is that my portfolio going to pull it out for what is what is that like? What is the good of the talking book? You get a sheet would like you to ask us: what would it messenger the day? Here's the message of the day here. You're talking point stop by the Eagle: U turn on Fox news. You can hear it come out of that much better. On word, for word, an eternal eminence NBC. You can hear it word for word from the Biden campaign to their surrogates. It's all planned man like it's all from serve it. Nobody actually things for themselves and that when we came together like we were Hosni, show that would set us apart. I mean, I think, that's why it's caught on. What's the incentive, like is it the incentive access money for you,
stay with the party line with. However, if it's a lot safer, I mean you know it's: not easy to sort of beyond their on your own yet, and I want to paint just sort of trying to be honest as more noble act than it actually is by very safe if your within the party structure, if you're saying the things that they want, you to say: there's a whole system set up for that. There's a career system set up for that there is a system of protein so you're allowed to be. Dramatically wrong on things like the Iraq war? Are things like the financial crisis if you're wrong in the approved ways right if you're wrong in the non approved ways, then you can get destroyed cancelled all of those things, so it's a lot safer to stay within, abandoned and look like we're living man in real time. Right now, it's never been just with health for wrought. You know you have panda
bank or people are dying. You have great depression, so it's like the spanish flu and the great depression, and then you layer, on top of that, like all the chaos of the sixties, lines have never been more drawn, at least in the time then we ve been doing the show, as they are right now, and so it's it is, it's not an easy dynamic to navigate, because most of the country is just completely coming apart. You know what I mean picking up, you're like. Why do you do it? If you do it, you hop on establishment campaign to establishment campaign campaign cycles over you go work at a think tank, which is all your former bodies from the campaign. Then you go and you do the talking point. You will always the job, you will never suffer you'll. Never if nobody likes what you have to say, even if republican those are democratic voters have rejected your message: six out of seven popular vote elections does matter because the money is there and the people who have the money have an interesting propping up that infrastructure. So when you get your
walking points. You know that if you say them here and access good graces and then that person has to hire you throw you consulting contractile, throw you this, though, put your name for whenever time to staff up and administration. That's the system of the rift in the city actually works and that's how they keep descent voices in their own party down, because how do you, you can get on tv, or how do you even become an authoritative voice in your party? You need credentials right. Everything is credential ism. Why do you get those credentials they control who enters the programmes and they control who they push? They control who they push forward, and so that's how they try to keep people who have dissenting opinions out and it's like we set its beak.
Was of the space the you opened up, where nobody knew that somebody wants to listen to a guy talk about chimps for three hours and millions and millions of people. Did you know that letter and like that happened that created a space where significant lot of people who are fed up with this shit? But can I say also it's not just that like direct career, Griff trajectory, it's also that we're at this point in the nations history, which again has never been more obvious than right now, where the stakes feel really existential, and you know, and that's that's a real thing. I mean before trumps election. There was this flight, ninety three essay or that the argument was look if you're social conservative, if you're, not sure that this Trump guy it's for you, this election is existential. You have to grab the controls, or else our way of life is going to die. Now I don't agree without US assessment. I think that is hyper Balikh. I think it's over the top. You know the conservative way of life is going to continue in their turn
and people can do what they want to do- but that's the that was a legitimate sense among the Trump base. And of course we see it with the Democrats in the left right now- and I would say at this moment it has probably never been more true in terms of that access stench all nature, as we see in the president calling for potentially military activation in Marrakech cities, and we see em YO using cheer gas and rubber bullets on peaceful protesters. So the fact that the stakes feel so existential on both sides make it very very difficult to engage in a way that is thought full on non hyperbolic and where everyone not just basically mad at you all the time, how did you know, studies show- or I mean so- it's crazy stores, okay so was co hosting previously, and this for Canada shows on you too many, I think, First, it was more like standard, less or more of a standard left right kind of dynamic are we are we didn't have? This was just you know, one to two years.
So I started to honest, took on the show last year, yet about a year earlier Euro yeah, so before that for about a year before that I've been co hosting another guy, great guy bucks extended, and we had sort of a more standard left right, dynamic, troubling reports too, What do I love your low volume Baxter there were anyway, I used to fill in four Bach right of when he was gone and crystal nigh like we may. We found like we would click on certain issues especially on this. These are things you see on the show like on economics, on the indictment of the economic system, whereby, even on trawling, I'm not a trump toady right like I'm, not I will, if, if they give italian ones. I if I see I mean if I think something is good I'll say its golden everything gets. Something is bad, that's bad and gets me into trouble. He gets crystal into trouble to define trouble. I mean people are pissed off away, say: they'll tweeting. How dare you do you read that stuff? You are really does depression. Lyrism single approach
I would refer of it. It's not that I am like smarter to not readjust. Unlike have kid monsieur le doesn't need, are now that actually helpful rate satellite internet and its silent really hard. It's actually great, so we re irregular and it has always had still helps if you're trying to upload something it's virtually impossible. Fox ass, your eyes at the start of accidents at work, even so that we are putting something really would think it was cancels out at times for the bank really sometimes I think it over our. So so, yes, I went back wanted to, beside his radio show, and you know one of the one of the expectations of the hill witches. You know both were corporate news brand and sponsors us is that this will be a left right show by let's do it left right show in a way that no one has done before where normally the consensus, the sort of left right consensus is like this. We're all moderates we're all core
pretend we believe in unity, we believe and like low taxes. We believe in free trade deals, that's the in wars and those sorts of things the sort of standard by partisan consensus that you're allowed to have. So we thought what, if we did it in an indifferent left right, may I make where we actually have more overlap on some of these economic issues, and dissent is around more of the cultural issues and dumb, and what is that look like, because that's actually more representative of where the two parties are headed road? If you look at where young people are its also more representative of where more Americans are
I mean you know soccer says, and I think this is true. There is very little representation and has been historically at least for people who are like economically, more left and culturally, more right. All of the elite conversation is this fairy, like Economic Lee Liberal, but on social, cultural issues, economically, more conservative like bounds, the budgetary, low taxes and stuff, but on social, cultural issues. More liberal is more the elite conversation that is commonly happening on cable news, even though that's reflective of like teeny tiny portion, idealism of America, that's ten percent of the population and they all living like New York City Ella San Francisco, like the like work Amerika, is, I would say, cult pretty culturally right not like super ripe, likes centre right and economically, you could say Cultural laughed I mean little bit laughed depends on high. Define those things, but one of them main
Those are the show a crystal actually said. This, I think to the times was what, if we hated each other less and the elites more and I but had a bad that's without lifting now we evaluate that's kind of how we boil it out and generous become sorting conversation before he started, working together. Yea we tie down. How do you? How do you feel about this study feel about the year we because he'd filled in before and in mean you know when you have gas on when you were someone, especially in a media space, you can you get a vibe right away and you can tell right away. You know number one. Is this person like ready to hold the chair ready to do this thing? Do they have the sort of fully formed coherent ideas or things they want to explore? That's gotta make sense, so just on that, like surface level is not going to work,
you also get a real vibe for not even where are you ideologically, but are you willing to be honest when your team is fucking up and look? Everyone looks at cable news, even if Who are you know, a kind of standard down the line, democratic standards, Trump Republican? No one believes that these people are really shooting straight with everyone, sees the parson? Surely saying that is going on in the normal cable news networks, and so it was very easy to see right away. That sorrow was a person who was willing to you know to be honest, his own team of concern to me that was kind of the most important be your eminence same right like, which is that it's, when you are talking to somebody or on cable or just even in argument, has just standard talk what you and you can catch him in one of those like him going? What about isms? Just so frustrating issues, and it's so unproductive and that's the thing I hated the most about my time when I was
the White House Press Corps, it was very much just like the court. You could predict every single question before the brief even began M single one, and it just rooster drive me knots because you'd see these people and they care a lot more about it. Cable news contracts and all that than they ever do actually asking legitimate, quite or like real questions about what you think of this programme are what it's all in I mean just to standard issue crap and like it was a every Google Dame with crystal was fine, like somebody's going to call out the problems on their side, and I, going to do the same thing. I I've always been like that and that's that's where we were like. We have something air and I mean the end, then it just started to take off. We I mean it was like we just put it out into the ether and All of a sudden, you just started like catching Jesse you'll actually really, although this is the first thing that really caught was we didn't interview with the entry, arab and I've actually now I've known Andrew for a law
TAT great guy, just you now say it like trying to be honest journeys like really figure things out in his answer, may not always be my answer, but I feel like he's, really trying to figure it out and come to a good place and see the best and people of Europe, and so we did this long form interview with him. Where I mean there was nothing crazy about it. We adjust actually asked him policy focus sub, two questions for a thirty minute. Yes, things like thirty and it blew up and people was dead and we're like, This is no time for that we're getting like hundred views. I mean I, when I looked at some use dive, slacks thought we were on the ground We got a thousand views on our right and an answer. We posters Andrew Yang Video- and it's just like blows out than we thought wow. This is really really interesting. What now? Because the questions ass. It was like you were asking them about. Not just you be I've, which is what is known for about like Medicare, for all and-
and I was asking valuable as a dragoon invitation, I asked him of the China Trade deal about intellectual property and tariffs and people loved that we just ass, the willing to ask here yeah, and then it was an end that they weren't stupid. I mean that's the thing to at that point, his campaign from really basically except you. It was getting these really stupid questions about. Like I was just white nationalists who are supporting YO and it s really skinners you, oh yeah, white Nationalist, picked up Yang as like a meme thing like an heroic. I dont, even really remember, with context was but I may he obviously disavowed, but people were picking it up. Why All these white national support, their odyssey, trolling dude, like that yeah While these crazy, though that you can get in trouble for the people that, like you like you, can't we a problem of public figure, you have no control over. How can we know that this white nationals that even have mother radar but its and it's not even that, like you, see this,
any candidate who comes from outside the sort of established channels, I mean you see the same thing with with tall seas. Are the same thing with areas are the same thing in some ways with tromp is like they use? Who is supporting new? They final the worst person that reporting you and then they use that to dismiss the whole thing like that way that we have to engage with your arguments are your policy. Ideas are who you are. What you are doing is a personal leg. This person, associated with with you, is bad air. Go, you are bad Erika we don't have without it all? I think some of that has to do with this this. This quality of posting things. Social media, one hundred and hundred character, forty character now to eighty character, quality of twitter, where you're just kind of condensing things in this reductionist, view of staff and then just put it out there. Oh he's racist. Oh he's sexist, oh he's, supported by White nationalist and then that's the narrative stick with,
there's no new wants run. I hadn't think about that right. The cause they d, just like the sheer amount of arrogance it takes to just some up somebody in like two eighty characters and spent this person is a racist I think I don't even acknowledge the mean, do they know, it means to call somebody right. I don't think it's a real statement. It's like you're, saying right, but it's one person talking to the ether right, there's no one's saying like says who the keys handwriting is not a fuckin white national. What are you talking about man like you, need someone in front of you go with a fucking time, you're lucky he, oh, he knows those guys are supporting him, so he's going out of his way to the court them. Zaire sank right right, stupid, but no one gets to say that to them, so they get to put those tweeting is one of the worst ways to get at information right it's the worst ways to have a dialogue, because it especially when you're, defining something or so one and I feel the same way about sometimes occasionally about really self righteous blogs and read it
an evil blog about someone that person is going. Has to respond right. Oh you just sort of saying it out there, your perception of that person and you can make all these whore well distortions with its about Andrea, or Tarsi Gabardine, whoever yeah you can make these horrible distortions and then someone reads it and Europe You're putting out this distorted unchallenged perception of someone as if you were having conversation with them or someone who all You know as a more rational point of view, they could say both that's not really true, because she asked actually said this rise is what she meant and it's the greater context, the conversation at we're concept,
We are trying to draw lines around like who are the good people and who are the bad people, unlike where's, that bright line in which side of the line or you on and you're not allowed to associate with the people on the bad line, and I think, like social media, obviously exacerbates all that makes a million times worse, no doubt about it, because this also simplistic. It's also like sensationalist, driven, it's all keys into euros or like basic instincts, and you drawing a line in your dope Amene response and all of that, but there is also been a sort of strategy from you know that the political and media leads in the country where, if you pit people against each other- and this is something that type of use in Vienna? We have this great got you out of here. It's fantastic news, a morose, this great book hate hate ink and his thesis is essentially that once the cold war ended- and we didn't have Russia to be the bad guy
that the new ratings innovation was to make each other the bad guys. And what is that deal? First of all, its great ratings he's got an easy villa, and you know on Fox its people, be on Amazon? Easy, as we would like soccer raises, are easy villains, easy ratings? You can find stories all day long that support that narrative, no problem, but also saves any sort of accountability from the people that are in power, because if you know people who are out there, the country. If the voters are the problem, if they are bad, if they are evil, if they are deplorable, then it's not the fault of the people in power that things are going wrong. It's not our fault that these terrible evil sexist racists, horrible p, both voted the wrong way. It's those peoples fall, and so it saves them from ever having to do any self reflection or make any adjustments in what they are doing, and I think it's a bit part of why we are where we are yeah. I mean that's just such a huge part of the show, which is just trying to draw compassion people trying to understand what mode
AIDS sixty five- and I don't know the numbers adding it succeeds in something million to pull the lever for tromp. What happened there? right- and this is something that the media has not spend any introspection trying to stand what would compel a person to do that. What would compel a person to vote for Bernie Sanders its Mean YO, that, like oh Bernie, brows assault. Why I mean, if you look at the data which we talked about shalt constantly, it's just absolutely false, and it's it's in that way that you can, again to understand and actually even respond right and that's The thing I love the most about the show is sometimes I friends you know like on the Rhine. Those someday monolithic the laughed thinks this would like. No man, like I love cause and like that's not what she says her. Sponsors x Y, see I'm sure the same thing happens with crystal, which is that in a lazy with twitter, condensing our rhetoric in our politics, two hundred eighty characters and chronic condense hyper complex and multifaceted ideas and multifaceted discussions. Indeed,
conversations down to that level helps no body and actually all it does is helps. But people apart for a pretty explicit reason, which is that part things that we talk about a show is the reason why you know the elites the call really to right and left kind of want. Everybody split is cause. They dont want people to have the uncomfortable conversation on how the economy a structured. They don't every day that we talk with some real cultural debate, The country is every day that we're not talking about how many million people in this country are unemployed. Right now about the politics choice the political, voice and something I talk a lot on the show about to allow people to be forced off their payroll and go on unemployment to allow businesses to fail to allow people to suffer when we have the explicit choice of allowing them to keep their payroll, and it is something we ve been focused on so much because the implications of that when you
also making the explicit choice in order to cap the amount of money neither goes to a small business programme. We are doing in a big checks in order corporation already out too airlines which are firing people any way, despite the fact that they got like fifty billion dollars you and have a conversation about that that They will never want to have that one, because they want people to each other more yap. I think there's something about using social media that also facilitates mental illness and disease what I mean. We all have varying degrees of right. Some days you run down sundays. You feel great some days you're, you come and with a cold some days, you're in bed with the flu that we all very. I think that there's thing about. The kind of interactions of people are having when their arguing with shit on twitter that you can make real. I think you could draw graph. On human beings and under their mental health area, and how much Are you using social media and how many
actions. Are you having where you're arguing with people? How do you feel? Well, it's via that actually happened to me. As I look I spend all day on Twitter. I absolution. Hours and it s an internet lifestyle- nice not myself from getting into tweet, I saw myself I'm getting into most twitter fight at least stay off of it. The few days after this part does items can soon yes common euro, but I didn't. I took a vacation right before I came out certain of the show I spent like ten days afterward, that's when the Mulder report came out and it may I was I'm not no twitter and I Read it in the paper or re actually went found the link read the whole. It was me in the main fields. I right I mean I had all these new on starts like this as well. The Mahler bore the shows this This person was bullshit the whole time, but you only do other untreated. Whereas event, if I'd been my office around like this eighty, yet you know, but I lose. It was great and I should probably go back to that. I've incorporated some of it. I broke my phone once on vacation
I was in Hawaii, and you know if you want to order a phone it took like. I ordered from Apple too late three days to get there something like that, so for four days, no phone right, was amazing. It was amazing. I was like I feel so much more relaxed. Now, I'm not like shit there, like skin areas like get out. Reflex devising and light word Skinner like the push, the lever get reward. Bulgaria- and I mean you see with like I see with my kids, to if I let them have the device too much, they get all irritated and agitated, truly because it's the egg is exact same neural pathways, those like dopamine response systems. As with any addiction I mean it's, you have and years who are making their living, trying to figure out how to program your brain to now ever get off twitter not ever get off whatever it. Is that your obsessed with on your phone or your device and like that's what you're up again so Sri Lanka, humble about Titus, held only friends of the problem? Wardrobe, sometimes
ex them. Then I'll get back a green bubble, and am I did you which to Android governments, wish to flip thought we'd myself actual leg, I mean we, we don't have good broadband access where we live and it sort of pain in the ass sometimes but it. Please it like on the weekend, I'm sure it's growing, I hat like I have to be off of it. I am forced to, and I wouldn't have the willpower to do that myself and it is. It actually really is great news for my where my friends Judy Vance, he wrote the spoke hillbilly algae and one of the things you talks about him he's like you know why our best scientists, neuroscientist, always other people in the world, trying to figure out how to make you and I spend more grow and milliseconds and kids on their phones then try to change the world or invent met us like that. Is out of the prophet incentive right for so many these. That's something I'm this The big like new right conversation. Actually, like senator Josh Holly introduce legislate, I'm he got. It took a lot of shit for because they're, like he's, trying to be the product manager of the internet, like this something there rightly there's something: there's something about how these
systems or design and the people who are working try and spend you'd make all this time on the phone yeah, I don't know I mean that's, that's not greatly where the surgeon general on our Shoney's, I am very concerned about, would not only is it not great, but it's also really difficult to avoid like I once you get to doing it, it's a harder, than sugar. It's it's right up there with caffeine and nicotine snakes. You feel like you're. Really and something tat makes you feel like you're, really the best we this one, you enemies are not really you now and you watch the numbers go up and it makes you feel like you are engaged in some sort of like minor battle. Caesar minor victory grow to SAM. True, please Instagram page and pull the thing that he said what why people feel like and they virtue signal is- is an amazing photograph this this this to me epitomizes and embodies the feeling that I, get when I see silly people tweet things here.
Khaleesi from dealing with wrong being carried by all he's a good man, Jenks added the hits that it's this thing where people just Emmi virtual signal is a fucking fantastic phrase. Is it really is what it is now just perfect, and you know it's a little over used, but I like it, I'm gonna keep using it well, important term too, has it explains a lot of like the ineffectiveness of our politics made its all rhetorical needs all like rhetorically signalling, which side your on end, these sort of illusion of disagreement in Washington when actually very unanimously passed things like this four trillion dollars with big business and push everybody mass unemployment, math and my favorite example on that is there was a brilliant ten year Birthday Party for HIV which, as you know, the big insurance, China. We build on two thousand eight
in the committee room for the house, ways and means which is the Eddie in charge of taxing in the United States or in the committee room. They held a birthday party for the company that they bailed out, Democrats and Republicans all showed up man they internationally. Fucking specialty cocktails. At this thing, when I was a kind of Personally, I don't even know who I am sure I don't even know where I was I was like this is in the committee room in the very room to decide to where they deserve debate, these companies out to the tune of billions to out enduring Wall Street in so much more, birthday party limits all remaining around the open. We were trying to figure out how Nancy Pelosi made our money. We're like. What's her husband right, I think, is something so how'd. He argues money after bad it has to be sidelined, were dad was like us and against all were mayor, something, but with just the out of money. That's involved in these days visions the amount of money, that's involved in an influence and sharing influencing and getting getting people
so like your perspective and then the really things when they leave office. When politicians pursuing the President leaves office and then they get these fantastic, pay days. I speak here, then I anybody really want a patriarchal Hillary Clinton speak just fuckin, imagine being the tab person. It's like. I got some fucking fifteen hundred our tickets to hear only when all fifty grand right, my ex ample of this we covered recently the former U S Ambassador China MAX Bokkis, he was on also Seneca Banking Commission is now on the board for Alibaba. Would one of the biggest chinese companies and then in the middle, of all this stuff around chinese tariffs and krona virus itself is they're on CNN and on chinese state media being like trumpet Hitler like do what he's doing here, the ambassador to China and now paid by one of the largest chinese companies I mean which in China there's no such thing, really right: private business government and its like it's just the it's out in the open
I mean Obama's another great example: Obama, sittings of former annex c, director foresight. Security, went to go work, City, which the chinese technology I mean for cyber security when you a lobby, is now lobby on behalf of Z, tea out its name. We ve had it. We were time back what we and our during Ukraine gate when we were talking about. You know Hunter by an earnest, page acts on this Ukrainian. He deserved natural gas is a natural gas exports. I mean I can grandmothers nothing, no saying that this is illegal, but that's like exactly the points we have cars and TED Lou on his democratic or California or leg. You know is this: ok, like people sit on they earn money. This is why this is they really about it. That way, this is just the way that the town operates and it's you know it's easier look at these individuals, examples and be disgusted by them? But the bottom line is it's a much deeper problem in that way? We covered a pole recently that was actually done by that,
and here's acts because other number one political issue was corruption like beyond climate change or healthcare, whatever the one. The number one thing that they are most concerned about was political corruption and you look at what is happening in the country right now, and the fact that our institutions have no credibility that there's no expectation that you could affect change through traditional channels. I mean that feeds into exactly the rage. That's exploding across the country we covered before or corona virus right and forty million plus Americans unemployed and hundreds of that? A hundred thousand plus dead and before riots broke out and before George Floyd was killed in before? All of that we covered this pole where forty percent of Americans Athens, forty three percent, said when they think of our cultural and social institutions. They just want to burn it all down. Forty percent, like what does that mean in a car,
except the democracy of the all come to that phrase, was it like last year it was reported that they are. You are you are you I mean I just re, get that seems little leader is naked, mommy and we're just so there's only pc agree with, but think of what are the options, but we would like to see any choice other by think politicians give your money in question, or it is good that the whole of Europe, on the other hand, when you consider the fact that the largest pool of citizens in the country aren't trump voters are Hilary voters or Biden voters or whatever there, our voters and these people have side like this isn't worth that. This does not reflect my. This is not going to mean Jack shit for me in my life and if you look at that number, and then you consider what you see happening across the country where people again they feel like they have are so disgusted with what's going on and their restless and masked in like have had
all of their normal tools of being numbed. Infotainment in sugar and all those things in sport sort of taken away from them. You start to understand what we're saying: it's really a perfect storm. I gonna. Lately we ve never experienced anything like this before its fastening to see how the thin viz veneer of civilization can be chip through and You just see the really deep pool of despair. That's underneath it is there so much man s going on in the streets today and its hard to get a bead on how this is all playing out like how it's all being organised. How these cops feel that they can just shoot people with rubber bullets and tear gas out in the open source of everybody. When people are, I mean, you know in the death of a guy, was murdered by a bad kind, where it's on coming on CNN, where we live peaceful protestors
porters getting shot, reporters getting shot, get getting arrested us an end to think low is just Robert. Was I mean, have you seen these wounds? Indian, like this? Is hair ass, Roger Hell? It's a flashback, grenades people losing has now he hurled if a journalist so let's inherent she's actually friend of mine, Linda, really lost or are yeah blind and that I respect any and just a bead on her because she's the issues actually really important voice. She came to prominence because she wrote a piece about the struggle that she had experienced as a low income working class person like just really wrong honest and that went viral, and she from that was able to write a book and become a journalist or she's one of the few journalist voices who, actually has any connectivity to what regular people go through day day. So you know, I mean just like awful to see that sort of thing happening to her and to so many
others here and I mean you're one of the things I would appreciate. Your commentary was about about Tajima human violence and, like the propensity to violence and how thin kind of a veneer of social order and so much like what that is and what it actually means. So I live in a society where whenever you see something like that breakdown and I've just been thinking bout that so much like in the context of what we see right now, because I mean it's also crazy, like to see footage of people just like they feel like they can just loot with impunity right. I mean you last night in New York City, total destruction, I mean there's there is at least giant failure under bloggers. Part right he's incorporating this angel strategy of letting people burn out. This is there's a strategy that they employed in the nineteen sixties and eventually awnings just talking about this in an interview, the difference between the way when he ran New York City. You can say what you want about Giuliani, but one thing he did do as he made it. So,
for he made New York City a safer place to bay, but probably neo criminals. They go down across the country and all studies that are not just in New York during that time. That's good! Let in New York, particularly there was a crime written city and it went down while he was that I'm sure across the country had helped as well But what happened in New York City was he's letting these people loop he's telling the truth. To stand down so these business, is that are all supporting the mayor, supporting the tax with taxes supporting the police officers they're watching their business. This gets smashed and looted Fifth avenue, destroyed gas Sixth avenue destroyed hundreds and hundreds of buildings with smashed windows and all their products gone, and there now you see, but then you also see leg. You now police suvs, driving into protesters than you know, here gassing indiscriminately. So to me, it's not a question of those of big deal harder or more aggressive policing. It's the tactics of being made no sound years, work
discreet, protesters should be allowed to protest right, there's a giant steam what those people are doing when they're saying this is our ages. We need change. We need a radical overhaul of the this damn right because others, too many corrupt cops. Let those people do what they're doing, but they're not moving see I have the languages are different people is in. This has been the hardest thing for crystalline cover, like it's funny cause we're coming on here, and we were like, and we know all the attention is kind. It's like this. There is nothing else that, where the fat the lines are so drawn, where, frankly, there's probably the biggest difference in our philosophy. On this I agree with you Joe. I mean, I think, and I told us, tourism which is that the beacon was sent out when that many apples mare, let that target go and they let the affordable housing complexes, Berne and they let the policing burn. That was it and it will just all across it. Indeed, this was an intentional choices. Is out of political correctness. There like we, don't want to deploy the police, because that would see
like where impugning upon these protesters and where we know where and they allowed. I mean they allow this target in this n eat just went in caught fire and that's. Why, like, as he said, look if people want people should be able to protest in this country and if their piece of shit cops, who kick him in the face and I've seen terrible videos? Some of these are some of the things they doing awful, but he can allow looting you can allow, whereas businesses I mean- and this is the thing I am emphasising- these look people are like. Oh, you know it's just property, but something to score property, but sometimes as a whole, guys life. You think that hasn't jurists, but you know here's the thing and why that, where their such hypocrisy, not from saga has been consistent on this, but from the right and general is like the response occur in a virus lit forty percent of small business is on fire and give a fuck right thinker its opportunity, caring about it now, mostly from the right and there's. Also look if you like about, if you think about rule of law, re, think about law and order
and how do you get to a place where I disagree with you? I don't think it is all different view is very easy to be like. Oh, it's all in t far out FIAT shares and whenever I don't think that's all true, there are certainly criminals who are opportunistic early using the breakdown of the moment. To you now to loot to vandalized to do whatever that they're going to do, but I think what is harder to recognise reckon with is that you have actually courting quote ordinary, typically law abiding people who feel like the the moment has broken down to that the extent that they would also engage in those kinds of acts. That's a harder thing, too you'll with, but when you think about the moment that we're living in like vous the rules and the laws that have been set have never been that far from like that, disconnected from what is moral and what is just-
you, look at four trillion corporations and everyone else. Mass unemployment and small businesses destroyed with when you look at the fact that of those officers, murder, George Floyd, only one of them has been charged. The other three are still free. Men arrested I'm in charge in anything and meanwhile you ve got. You know four thousand protesters you. Journalists on tv who are being charged if you go back even further than that, like the financial collapse and you're allowed, if you're rich to collapse the entire economy with zero consequence, and so again this isn't like morally justifying things that are morally unjustifiable, which is what you're talking about. But you so have to understand that that doesn't happen in a vacuum, theirs of systemic breakdown of the gentlemen sea of rule of law and law and order that leads to knock.
Outside aged hairs are white nationals are rush hour anti far. Whoever it is that people are pretending that this is doing all of this to where you have regular citizens who are like fuck this I am going to be out there that and I'm gonna be defacing. Our walk. You know in DC out by the Department of the Treasury, has got black lives matter scrawled I write intentionally going the high and parts of telling this is actually, in many cases very political and very specific. I think that's a harder thing to have to reckon with that that dividing line between these are the good law abiding ones, and these are the bad ones and luscious crackdown on the bad ones. That wine has become very blurry and that's why it such an incredibly hard situation. I agree with a lot of what you said yeah, but when we're talking about protestors and the cops shooting and attacking protest. You really talk about people just standing their protest yeah. What I'm talking about is people actually in the act of looting,
when they cross that line no just creating ocean aviary smashing into someone's business and stealing their good. I understand that people are upset that for trillion dollars went to these corporations. I think the logic from the right about this was it you, find the corporations and keep them running veil, employ these people and keep the society running as smoothly as possible. During this on, scented pandemic. Let me pick up on that job, because what it is that you're right. That was a philosophy, but it's often mistaken one and that there is actually a better option, which is where we talk about so much in what crystal said, which is you right from the right there's a lot of concern trolling around small businesses when, let's beyond they allowed. A cap too the White House. I mean advisers, we're Senate Republicans. Now a cap to be put on the paycheck Protection programme, which was for small businesses. They allowed that to go capped and allowed to go dry and had political fights, There was always been an option to put. This is a right left thing, Sandra Josh, always on record gardener, and I think it's com,
someone PAMELA J appalled. They have plans to put America and on their payrolls had the federal government subsidies that payroll up until now the end of this great depression, and in that way you keep businesses together right. Uk businesses you have, they have the Patient Protection programme of the workers, the ongoing on employment or anything, and you can scale that up and no business has to go out. They don't have to fail. They don't have to do all this. So for me, this need arises forty million plot of formulating the unemployed. We had an intentional government policy of unemployment. That was, our policy was like. Let's have millions, Nath outcome, I know where you are and what would you rather them do if you have a pandemic that look when it turned out to be was a big difference from what we thought it was going to be. I was very different. We thought was gonna kill. Ten percent of people without gonna be a devastating pandemic that was going to sweep through the country in our friends. Are gonna die we thought right turns out not be the case, we're lucky, while in some ways when you ask but others when they were trying to figure out a way to me.
Get this situation yeah they d I'm going to shut down society right because we want to protect lives over money right. What would you have done? Well, the alternative look. There was always gonna be pain. There's no doubt about that me. Can you not legislate away from that, but other countries that are much better than they spent less money where they essentially nationalize payroll, so people stay attached to their jobs but they don't they aren't going in. It is still shut down or countries in Denmark it s much more countries for years but our chanters their percentage EPA and all. But I mean bachelor clause, Ireland only yet it could have been that it could have been done much much you, but they did it with airlines, so the airline bail out, which was custom, written included, a provision that you have to keep your workers, and so we're gonna. Give you this money, and basically backstop payroll and
I'll look I mean they're messing around and and as soon as the sends, they want us to lay people off. But if you backstop, the payroll, essentially nationalize it, especially in our country where your health insurance is tied to your job. So now not only to have people are unemployed but they're losing their health insurance during a pandemic. That just compounds everything in this is absolutely unconscionable mean, while you know go out to big corporations, got like customer in legislation for themselves, and forty percent of small businesses told the Chamber of Commerce that day will be closing their doors. The next six in terms of the cause, I'm I am fairly certain the privileges one over three months with six hundred billion, so that's a lot of money? But you briefly two point: three trillion was the first one extra couple hundred billion for the Patient protection programme. In the scale of what we did, especially we include the Fort the Federal Reserve the money was that the problem monies are? These is an issue of political will. Is this something that could have been agreed upon by both parties is something that I have come through, having harboured by the corporate laughing and, moreover, right now, why so
Would you have done so if you have a magic wand and near the President like how to how do you mitigate does? Are you? This is my biggest frustration with the White House, which is that you have this populist president, who, like actually understands like very much? Why elected, but you have so many of them, if I was crystal, doesn't like she's Ronald Bob S got a lot amendment lot of movement. You has all of these people who work for him from a kind of old regime, basically was allowed to stand up, and those are the people who were like, let's cap the paycheck Protection programme, who Ok, you know we just passes through this. Two point a trillion dollar plan or what this well. Let's look, wait and see how it goes as the echo of the unemployment numbers began to take up mass our business failure. All these other things in that the fundamental tension on the Trump administration. That there was no like there were no professional populists, so to speak. Right like there was no professional apparatus of people on the right who actually help
and understood why Donald was presently states, and this is like this is what gets back to where I talked about earlier about the incentive structure about that system. The think tank, the revolving door, the, It is an effort to maintain power over the policy sphere because if you control that it doesn't matter what the people think I mean matters. What happened cares? Here's? Why, as being isolated, because I mean look, he's the president and he makes his own choices and if You understood like that. There was this need to go more economically left and do it. Then you could take a do it, but the reality is he spent his whole. Most of political capital is first term like giving them away tax cuts to corporation the same thing anyway. Republican would have done. So that's why I sort of Rome. I I you I don't know he cares about anything outside of like a winning the days new cycle. I really don't think he gives a shit about anything other than that I mean This is this is the thing though I may I met trompe. I've interviewed him a couple of times forefront four times. I thank and what does it work exactly? We see exactly what you see on doing same guy do feel it
you got through the layers to talk to a human noack, as is always better than they have. No, they don't think you're. My favorite thing I ever asked trot. I was like what are people going? Marie Foreign hundred years and is veterans choice now like go on land is that's probably not it gradually. I'm like sitting there. I heard with new Trump, like I'm in the overall and like you're, like Manna Kissinger sitting like stay of k, picture and dies in our lives and then he thinks about any. What did he mean by veterans choice that he knows the veterans to know that he was taking care of veterans through, like veterans wealth later I have only just started rattling off like why he would like all his basically like the talk and points like Weisgerber, but I realized my trumpet lives completely in the moment and they doesn't We have that, like he doesn't really think about things in that Oracle contacts. Will this is a kind of faster in the briefings, pays attention if his name's brought up thro his name in their every now and again,
it's Saturday, namely data they that we are getting it he's, like my feeling. We deserve em I would urge for a man with an air of M M, he's the perfect present while this time, vigour but think about I've. I think you're so right and to make it like I'm not a partisan, Fang or politics are so shallow. Hollow theatre, cable news base their like twitter politics and you can see it not just with tromp, whose, like the ultimate incarnation of that, but during this pandemic Andrew Cuomo, like this, Celebrity governor Democrats are like we gotta get him in. There is amazing. Is your New York had the worst outbreak of in the state and thus all on him. But it is partly on him. How was it him, though, because there is no, because there are limits to the cities. Let me tell you a couple of eggs: yes in part: yes, but also they shut down later right than other places like Washington, California, which have much lower
break. He mandated that nursing homes take back in forty three percent of current virus. That's our nursing homes knows is a nursing home, Panama mandated that they take back in recovering covert patients, and he happens that he got a new, no million dollar plus campaign check before his re election through affiliated committee. Before you got re elected, and so he also put made too short to put into place a why ability for all their executive sooner if they don't do a good job, they can't be held liable and that data shows is correlated with increased covered death and infection rates, because they know that there can be held responsible. So there's a lower threshold they're, so there were very specific decisions that were really bad and fuelled the worst outbreak in the entire country, but because he can get on tv and gave a commanding press conference. That's all p
Oh really care about even alligator percent river rating has spoken about the recovering covert patients being readmitted to the nursing homes. Now my no cause his, brought us on. Cnn is primetime anger, Chris Cuomo, and they do these ridiculous interviews where they like joke around about how biggest knows is, rather than asking questions like that, and look it be one thing: if you're gonna have your brother on once or twice like I get at volume, you know, but no night after night after night. It's the show of that. Two brothers coming up while people, or dinosaurs apologists you supposed to be held to account. That is, these will erode fucking around with his brother Jochen about the size of their nose and swab, where there are, like literally thousands of all elderly people who died because explicitly because of this decision now we're not seeing new win but the decision, but like there, spasm, like scrutiny and accountability of that, nobody CNN must touch it cause crisp. Almost anchor Nobody'D MSNBC wants to touch. It. Has the economic crises that big as democratically all live in New York and I'll probably have dinner with each other
Of course I mean people on the right or talking about it because he's a Democrat, but that is no mean outside of crystal and a few others on the left and on there their total hypocrites to Fox NEWS, picks it up with this like liability story and how he gets this through. Meanwhile, Mitch Mcdonald proposing the same thing at a national level, and there like a ok with that. So I mean this gets back to the sort of central com concept of the show we're just hurry. How do you do? I'm gonna die growler gonna like New fucked up on the rotating like. Let's talk about it if its Republican, we're gonna do this same thing, and that's way. I mean on a basic level. That's always was to be in it. It's a big big problem again going back to this moment that we're living in because no one trusts having one reason. Even if you are an MSNBC water watcher- and you know it and you love it and you love Rachel Matter. Whatever you know, you're getting Spock you know that you are taking certain stories that are gonna like peak your interests there, nor that the end of every the lesson
every single news story cannot be arrogant. Trumpets bat, like cannot be the conclusion of rudder, only every new story and over on vital issues. The end in conclusion of every new story: financially Erika Democrats, our evil and on American re everywhere. We all know that No people are not that stupid. No, do not and could not agree more and that's one of the things I find very refreshing about your shows that you guys don't exhibit that kind of partisanship you to say what you think you think people are fucking up. You say it rise. You have no idea like. I said how much push back we get from the institutions,
I've read and yet nobody he's a Paypal account number. These are like engine number powerful people. Management are very similar cyclical, silent. You said about the silky. Real jobs can move. Should that's how you get round extra mp from all that, I'm just saying I will change their respective nothing and strategy. I have one old phone, the Czech really for five days. My phone and connect with friends that fuckin thing moves around he says that Smart very wise. I just think that you have to develop strategies to protect your consciousness. You know you really do especially your level. I can't imagine it's some manageable, so I will manage it I found it out just keep moving, keep moving, stay busy, stay busy and don't take itself seriously and keep moment. I feel like there's a real movement towards what you guys you're doing. I feel like it's the future that Philip people are fed up
that Chris Cuomo Shit there fed up with that Rachel Man, our shared no disrespect either? One of those those people but like I was, was crisscross doing some think of the day, and I was watching and worse basically justifying riots near and I was like how man did someone write this for you. Is this how you really feel? Did you think this out? Cuz? I think that's all I could get from that is Trump. Needs to be removed from office. So let's come up with some sort of a reason. Why he's responsible for these rights? These rights are good and these rights I've been historically done when people feel Power Listen, we that's all true. I look it's it's a terrible position, the young person right now- and this is what you see when you seeing looting- you see a lot of these fucking young white kids that have probably not have political thought. Their fuckin dopey heads and it is right to give free, Nike Shoes- and that's really what's going on. Watch
about a hundred videos of people looting, I might have seen for black people saw its white kids Dylan Sneakers, that's kind of amazing right, and this is I mean this is what really gets me, which is that this approach, George Ploys family has come out and said: please stop violence. Cavies I mean how many times you see that when you're never run the king of gas, Sources will go you. Can we get along Riah here personally, and I think I think that's like that peace under standing who why it is important to understanding what to do right, because if it's just what I have seen hasn't just been you in terms of losing out on us, specifically, but I think it's very easy to say. Oh it's just this type of person, it's just that type of person and to take out of it any of those sort of like more radical, not just smashing up stores in that kind of stuff, but like graffiti and more, you know defying curfews in those sorts of things
And so, if, if you view, the problem is just like violent protest like the problems violent protesters, we have to deal with that than that merits one response and ass. The direction that Trump is going on is like call and military, which I think is fucking scary, like calling in active duty military in every city. In the country like we saw with the protesters, who, God you know the tear gas and rubber all its in front of the White House or peacefully protest. I mean that shit to me scary and frankly, the fact that Democrats in quarters journalists on tv have acted like the world is ending every time. Trump does anything when he does do something like invoke the insurrection act and say we're looking at sending me military into american cities. There is no moral. Language of this is unprecedented. This is outrageous. This is u no different than what we ve seen an impasse left because they that kind of thing that that Trump has ever got. They have quite that's exactly the case because I
I think that this is a very different and very dangerous and volatile moment, but if you think that the protests are about, the the structure of a system that doesn't allow any redress for you. No problems are people living peacefully protesting about for a long, fuckin time and you're. Not a thing has been done. If you think the protests are about political system. They will offer you the court and quote choice of down tromp whose, like the central park, five dude and red lighting with his daddy and denying black people, housing and Charlottesville fine people on both sides verses Joe Biden, who wrote the ninety four crime bill is unrepentant for it was justifying ends with Charlemagne just recently in saying Hilary Wrong, apologize, it forward, etc, etc, who, as part of this whole thing went out and said you know: police should meet shooting people. My heart said they should should shoot him. The leg live train about him that, like when you look
those do jointly, though, a lot of other choices is right. If you understand that adds the legitimate part of the protests than your response is going to be very different, then it's just like. Oh, these are bad people. These are pushing demons terrorists. We have to crack down on them. Let's call in the village, Harry that should ultimately never works because look at me Nineteen, ten years and Afghanistan? What do we learn? Tat? You can take the ground, you can't hold it. You can hold a society together with an aggressive, militarized response: that's not gonna to work overtime. So if that's your only strategy like ok, then what then, what gonna your. We I'm curfews at one p m every day, militaries holding down American Citys every day, because you have a significant chop, a chunk of the population that will no longer consent. So I think that I think on this particular one disapproval where we disagree the mouse because- and then she pointed this out, which is to me it's about the restoration of law. Order, and- and look I mean this- is why
you saw these saint joy red right. I mean these people were putting out conspiracy theories that acts. So if one hears that is something on will begin with the timeline, which is that the timeline was. You know at first at last, the target got looted. The affordable housing complex, went down every decided, ok, violence, looting! Everything is fine, so their basically justifying it on cable. Then what as a second night happen, a lot more violence and protest, work, police and firefighters visible. So Minnesota Authority started lying about how actually every ngos person arrested without a state, not true local news went in. Found the polar mayor. Saint Paul, Mary sat down. Cameron said every one of the people that was arrested was did not have a Minnesota Roger, I thought was a blatant fucking. Eighty percent of them war from the town and here's the so wise wisely, because then they start laundering through joy, read at MSNBC that it's actually winter, Russians and white nationalists. What are the watch? I shit? You not! You can pull union, although I was
lady still anti, especially their blog posts, but the real dismayed at it. It that's the thing again. If you are wrong and re way than ok. Laying reason I'm burning up reed is because the legitimacy for the use of force for these people. It only applies if its Russians or white nationals you're allowed to crack down on that. Whereas so look on the military front, Lessing about our history, Eisenhower, nineteen, fifty seven com, in a hundred first airborne division in order to forcibly two great little rock high school to stop to allow the Little Rock nine tend to that school because a white supremacist violent mob and the local authorities could not be trusted to do so. I think that's a legitimate use Nineteen sixty seven s, elbow J calls in the military to quiet race riots. In Detroit, I think that's legitimate Rodney King George Hw Bush, in the Marines, nor to restore order. You have to restore and crack down exactly the people were talking about these criminals, Lattimer Sociopath Income
just taking advantage of the situation and from that port we have to move and act within the political system. Crystal seems to think. I think that acting within the political system, is just not a choice at this point, but I disagree with I mean, even if you're on the left, like Joe Biden out today saying endorses this Hakim Jeffreys Bill on banning police chokehold right. Why? But why is anyone paying attention right now I don't think it. Let us at least under way to sell at exactly do not buy a much hanging about violence and, by the way, maturing violence Ivan saying has been coming from the cops and there's never as much focused the example of Our concern is the designer I mean I've seen some stuff do diversifying anything, but I have also seen some unconscionable tactics from the police onwards, and there's no focus any time on that I've seen police inciting and creating a dangerous situation. Do I have any confidence that given what we saw on tv with that
military police coming in and cheer gassing and rubber bullets peaceful populations that this is going to they're gonna go come in as peacekeepers in these seated cities, absolutely if you bring the military anywhere starting a war you're, not ending violence, your escalating violence and that's the thing gloomy us through those desktop looter here for griping local on four. Man I mean we're not going anywhere, is if the city's aren't up to find they can call on the National Guard, but without stability war that before the president, bring in the american military into cities across the country without local consent. I think it's inside and saying that if they don't use the National Guard, I think about the context of if you saw this happening in other countries right. It's easy is hard like look at our own country through you now neutral ones. If you looked at a foreign country, and you heard that their president was bringing in the military to quash protesters, would you be like
she's gonna go great. No, but only what added value on hold on lose our brain in the military squash protesters spring the milliner start outlined unhallowed. How can you say that France, but how can you say that when we see the notary always not be used to shooting rubber bullets into your gas at peaceful protests born when sport in them? we're talking those going on New York City. You stop people from Breakin in to law, abiding people showers do that and absolute lead us we're we're saying so are in agreement that the military but we're agreement, and even though it using the National Guard, isn't trained to do that. That isn't what then other, why have they aren't? Eridu local law enforcement me one of the big problems of local law enforcement has actually been the militarization which occurred after nine eleven, which occurred under Barack Obama's. Well when you roll tanks into american streets and you treat the citizens like this is a war. You escalate the violent. So my point is: if you are opposed to that
I once spending in the military is exactly the wrong thing to do. Yes, peoples and what's people should have their property protected, but you're you're, not saying what the right thing to do is better police. But that's not me right. Bag media programmes are going to have to do the same thing that the National Guard with due arrest people. First, gnashing windows and breaking the buildings. They might have the resources to handle something on the scale that you're seeing in Manhattan see. I think this is where this is. This is the issue which is that, when people like you and I who are against police violence, we are against an acknowledged this action we have. Solution. These people should be fired and shrink resolve that do us, but there is no solution that I hear from the left on. How do you stop riding and looting when the governor of the state of New York refuses to I'll give you a solution and ok, but there's money in the immediate term. There's no snares, meaning all it stop looting. What d you can de escalate the situation all tromp is doing right now. By calling for the military, create greater strain as in a war zone, is escalating
violence and radical deals. So, for example, and I the sounds hokey, but this is true if he had come out last night instead of having military police shoe hang tear gas and rubber bullets and Flash Bang grenades and crushing these protesters. If he had come out with that same cast, characters billboard arose was with them and taken any for eight minutes and forty five seconds. The amount of time that you know, George Floyd had that knee on his neck until he died or throw the future and then, if he had instead of saying ominous and the military and crush these protesters and by the way he's deeming them. Terrorists right. Our fellow citizens are saying these are terror if he had instead offered actual like no one can solve this. Overnight, but you can offer a few pieces of legislation, or at least an olive branch menu start to de escalate, rather than radicalizing, rather than rather than going the police state military state way which never ends. Well,
Let me give you an example oversight. When does this ever and well, you never told you give never had this before we ve never had people smashing windows all down Manhattan. You look at fifty, The new is insane right now looks like a bomb went off and shadow every window within five cent. I block I go back to our history, Joe because we have done this before I'm, ok and you see called in thirteen thousand troops in order to remedy the national LAW of Bush, but I'm sick. It has. What like we used again like the military does law whenever these local authorities refused to do it and look in the immediate term First of all I mean I don't make and the left wing government every credit whatsoever if he did do any of what was just suggested there, but second, which is that this is just the fund difference conservative and liberal disposition, which is that there are some bad go out there who you can show them as much compassion as you want there still gonna Luton they're, still gonna lose this sudden criminalize there. No such thing as like d
escalation in the in the most near term, when people are actively, as you said, looting the streets of New York, and so The governor of the state of New York refuses to call these are if these states these, like, I said, police onward governors, the mayor it so the mayor- and I think the gardener option has to move the May. I saw display Bavaria Fuckin enemies. This is the thing about, may you know the Minnesota, the Minnesota policing and all of that, which is that they refused out of political correctness, in order to crack down immediately upon people who work the very small group of people who are violent criminals. That's what allowed this thing to go. National and now people are- and this is it's part of our history- we have died of or again, Libert. Look after the after the El Paso shooting, I heard all all from the left. All this We need the FBI nor a crackdown on the, and I agree. I think that these violent white super, sister organizations should be taken down and, if their out their marching in their committing violence, they should absolutely be knocked out, and this is the point
which is where I pointed to why they start to blame Russians and White national because they realise this is going against them. They only it is legitimate whenever there using force to quash aside, which is not, which is that they agree with and that they don't do it whenever its political cause, they do see, I think so I think the house is that thing is happening because right now, which is the one second is. This is so active application of justice, and this is exactly what they are worried about, which is that I have a better idea. You enforce. The rules law and law and order against violent white supremacist and against violent looting criminals who taken me, judge of a legitimate protests against the horrific death of without, I think, that's part of where the breakdown in our views occurs, because I think it's fantasy. I think it's fantasy to imagine that you could trust this precedent to deploy
force in a responsible way, and we ve already seen like that's, not, is debatable point because we have already seen him abuse that force with peaceful protestors and the way. The first amendment is also a sacred right. That is part of why I love this country that should be protected, which is being overwhelmingly quashed by force right now in this country by bad policing by you, know this president and what he did with those peaceful protestors, in the idea that bringing the military and is going to de escalate is going to solve the problem. I think that's just a fantasy look. I don't know that you know. I don't know that the response to the ripening king riots or to those sixty eight rides is really the thing to emulate either, and the question again is not: is it good to loot as good Of course not. No one is saying that my question is what that lets. You bring me question, unlike you put what then
what that life is there's. No, there is no plan. Or how do we ve had these debates. We have had these marches, we ve had the outrage we ve had all of it, it never ever changes, and so you got a lot of people out there doing shit that they shouldn't be doing, but they feel like finally on our planet and yet we know that leaders tree in the entering statistically, it is changing statistic- is less people getting shot and killed by cops and ever before that? That, statistically, I believe that all these programmes and all the people on that have more. Let I'm not just talking about police brutality, because I see the the policing issue as existing within a much larger problem, which is a society that dehumanizing, which is a society that is cruel. I mean it sort of liked what we're talking mountain on socially, the good people in the bad people and we ve divided society like the worthy people who are treated like human beings. People like eyes ever needs cater to and are like
swaying but Gleich COD Old and all of that and people who are treated like less fan and those people are disproportionately black and brown, but that's the underclass of America. That is more when I'm talking to and policing system that we have is to protect this group and to police. That group and that's the part that has not changed. Only we see We see the vast inequality, we see the people who are now laid off, who don't have hope in their life that things are going to be better for their kids than it is for them and that the peace that armed talking about so yeah bring in a military clash and put a gun to their had, you know put a curfew at one p m locked down the country you might solve problem of leading the Gucci outlet right. But what then where'd you go from there and that's the point, an article on the peace with with trumpet. There are like he's doing the same thing in terms of say
this is all anti and they're all terrorists. And that justifies these kinds of actions and to me that is what is truly scary, because if you re we were saying: let us go after the bad ones, and you had some of that. You really are the K. Maybe that's one thing, but that you're trying to paint every one who is involved in these protests, as essentially other as essentially terrorist, that To me, as what is terrifying, why thank you actually addressed it saying that these people that are protesting that have a legitimate concern, and this is a real issue and Robin that happen and wants people to stop the lawless behaviour right where it has nothing to do with George Floyd smashing windows and stealing things honest split screen where, like he sang those words, honest split screen with military police cracking down on regular, peaceful hundred percent peaceful? protest or likely you out and mobile units are in agreement with peaceful protest yeah. We all in agreement protocol actual to actually do something is anything wrong with it. I think it's a great thing and I think that just a high price,
found nature of this- should re awareness and hopefully these police. Ministers and the people that are in charge, gonna get your shit together and get rid of these bad cops right. When you see this guy, who did this is George floor? You realize this guy's had a decade ago. Why satellite complaints against under similar shooting people assaulting people in this. It lets, let's think about this too, which is that from the very beginning. I think the left his bonus so badly. Sean Hannity, rush, limbo and Donald Trump, all universally agreed that what happened in George Floyd was that that cop, the criminal. I haven't really smart one person saying exactly and get a meat ITALY devolving approach and in protest, fine proto, because that counting prosecutor did not file a charge against George Floyd, the cop who killed George Floyd immediately, and that is what sparked the initial Thus there is absolutely nothing wrong with that protest, but then the line became less justify
the rioting and the looting. Let's do you wear. It went on silly, okay with it, but as part of a broader systemic democratic and then, of course, America voted against that right now, at Poland, just came right before here, fifty eight son of American say they support using the military to supplement police force this enough, I'm a populist one of the things I think about so much more in my politics, fifty plus one solutions, water, fifty plus one solutions that we can get to on economics that we can get to our immigration system about trade, about the way, the order, our society and am against the elite who pushed down upon the majority and use their corporate influence in order to Basque, gets out fifty eight percent of Americans right now or ask are basically completely support using the military in order to supper police effort because they are. Your stand, that what is happening right now is unconscionable and even let's pick up purely working class issue of this, which is that I saw a video of a car
buying elderly, american, black, elderly, black american woman. Talking out these protesters burned down my group restored, they burn down everywhere, our shop shamans I would rather be were Georgia's right now talk about George Floyd because of what happened to her we have seen these homeless homeless man in Austin, whose mattress was just needlessly burnt by these criminals, infringes to taunt him just ass. We ve seen both in business owners who have been beaten, savagely beaten by looting criminals, with no police presence. That is not that this shows you that list abolition of law and order and keeping on Where is a ban? If is one of the ways that we protect the most vulnerable in our population and the this vulnerable in our population are working class Americans there We have to clean the shit up by the way. Like I drove through your DC use. I ride my scooter going around there through the- and I see all these working classmate with the they have to take the glass they have to put the board's up, who are they
people who are not being able to go to work right now after we just had the worst economic crisis are still in the midst of the worst I'm a crisis since the great depression so justified. Asian of rioting and looting of the destruction of the small businesses and not having away in order to deal with is anti working class. But beyond that crystal Ass, a great question which is ok, it's like after what we do- and this is where you right, which is the right- does not agree the right there I just wants to soften the net down, and that's that, but no fifty percent of black Americans right now do not have a job in this country because of the explicit choice made by Senate Democrats and Republicans not to it the payroll programme. We are right now it's never been better time in America to go and to look at that payroll. Pretty the programme, and I really encourage people in you're going to look at that proposal because I don't think it's gotten nearly enough attend and not enough Republicans and Democrats are being pressed on, whether they support something like that Here's my solution. Yet we have the euro
we were shore order in America and then we need to make sure that people are taking care of not through just distributed non unemployment benefits, but through actually having putting these businesses making them whole through a paycheck the action programme using no the Holly plan in order to eighty percent of American Workers Payroll, so they can go back and remain intact and then we can scale that up with the reopening because Joe, I think you're time. Let us here on pockets like these restaurants right, restaurant businesses, even in the best of times, Hunter percent capacity, is fuckin harder on a rush out right, think about it by the party limited. The problem is that it's not gonna happen. I'm images MRS Redondo sorry like we're, not gonna that we're not doing anything else. I mean that an that's really, where worse
doc like I'm, not try to justify like that. That sort of stuff is absolutely unconscionable, like smashing up some small business that they ve worked on absolutely onyx up violence. Anyone against each other absolutely unacceptable. I dont want to ignore the fact that much of the violence I have seen has come from cops, which is why I think bringing in the military only increases the level of violence, but that's where things are so stuck. I think doctor or now asked her are you had on. I love that programme by the way that you do without you love him. He said we are living in America's failed. Social experiment has failed to provide for the economic, health and dignity needs of its citizens, and so yes figure out how to deal with the violent elements in and yet it peaceful etc. But the idea that you're gonna crack down and take the pressure off and then the change is gonna happen. That's not gonna happen and it's why we are truly stock because you
such a large percentage of the population which does feel that nihilistic, which does feel like the choices on about you know, go vote like President Obama's or they don't move of like we ve been doing that and it hasn't really changed their material outcomes, rather a wife, ass. A part of the show thy three more or less agree on his leg, how little choice is offered to people in terms of actually improving their mere material well being and having their interests looked out for by Washington, DC and so yeah. When you push people that far were forty percent say burning all down, it's it's! You are asking for exactly the tinder box that we're thing around forty percent of people willing answer pulls out a kind of people at the bottom. More that's. Where was almost reads as like this poor. Most people work, I'm busy ever should to do, but the boy
but then availing myself of another one. One thing I do think it then nihilism that I see some so much of that element of the laughter, particularly corner where the fails or to expand it. Just ignores like that extraordinary things can happen through political change and even if they do want political change, look a friend Our show Zat Dulany, I'm a heat side of these studies coming out of nineteen sixty eight, where you can see. Explicitly that nonviolent pro has dramatically increased support for the civil rights movement and that one ever return violent, that it would turn again Some ends in one study in particular showed that it led to the election of Richard which is something that I want to see, that the protesters are violent desire. Is that, as I said earlier, and I met a vile like that of the association of the violence, the protest movement, I think it s just opportunities that are tonight. I think there's a giant percentage of what's going on as opportunities taking advantage of this movement in the K. I totally agree I feel like,
what corner western saying? One of the reasons why resonates as if they have so much money for the bail out they have so much money to take care of people during covert for these operations so much money deal with, is why didn't they invest? that money and fixing all these problems that have happened in these large cities that have had a long, deep history of economic problem yeah like I'm, not all that it already is. Just I mean in our lives in Kentucky and Appalachia Lake Shore like make it universally everybody buys end, but that's exactly and we had to hold democratic primary every debate. It was like what are you gonna pay for it, but then one moment that the stock market crashed. It was like years four trillion dollar good. Sadly, though, AEGIS exposes that's it. That's part of the moment that we have to understand that just exposes the fact that all of this idea that we can do anything I'll, be I'm so sorry, there's not money and that the system is fundamentally fair has been completely exposed as a lie
This system has never been fundamentally fair, but people of tried their best to make it as fair as possible why supporting the special interest groups to put them into power while trying to keep up with the demands their constituents, It's a mess. One of my favorite things I talk about is what Christendom I really want to try and do, or especially for me I want to make it the cynical choice in order you do the right thing. That's the hardest gaming politic, whose that's with especial interested right like you to its decision, gold choice in order to pass the subsidy or do the bail out for acts and offer why because you know, you're gonna get a job out on the other side, or you know that you're gonna benefit politically. That's what we need to do. We need. Make it so that its this cynical choice to show up for working class people and right. Now I mean that's one of things I really took note of which this Holly plan talk him out. Corey gardener from coal Morocco is the most vulnerable Republican in the United States Senate and he signed onto that plan now he's running for real action.
He was he was vulnerable for all this even happened, and I with that's him, that's what you can try capitalize on. You can show people, even if they're the most cynical act, I don't know anymore Coronel I sent out by swimming and clear by like if you can make it so that its the cynical choice, to try and show up now. That is an extraordinarily hard thing to do. That is how can I sit here and pretend, as if I don't talk about every single day about system is rigged in the political system in particular and who owns who, but it did. This is part of what I think we're onto about what you like, what the heterodox kind of speech, which is that there is an extraordinary support for efforts like this If you can show these politicians, if you do something like this, you will get praise from crystalline soccer. You will get in electoral benefit. You will have. The media is what this is the case. You need to build alternative ecosystem centres of power. Which are able to elevate that so that they know that they have somebody who's gonna have their back because right now, if you go,
The standard line you're always gonna, have right or the left to back you up in a time of crisis. You'll have the money people will fund rays Do you have to show people that by doing the right thing that that's where the best politics are and that's what we focus on in comes the economic solutions, and so much of what we advocate for on the show is too show people like I said. Fifty plus one solutions exist. There is political opportunism to be had by just doing the right thing. This was Trump. I trumps like innovation, more than anything was running again standard g p ideology in the twenty six the primary run running on trade, saying no may be traced on always a good thing running hard on immigration, which is something GEO. Pe voters have always wanted those too she's in particular went completely. Paul Ryan and so much but they were advocating for. Will you could never say it, because if you set it knocking on Fox, if you still, if you set it, you're, not gonna, be in leadership the air, they Republicans, our cannot fund raise money for you, you don't think tanks.
Dollars right, fake studies and fake pay, where's my how your liar that's exactly what he is. Suppose that there's opportunity should be had there. Will we got it? whose build up media and alternative innovations which show people that there is a cynic, there is a way to be cynical there's a way because people are cynical. Peep politicians in particular there is a way to act in your own self interest and to do the right thing, and I think that that's why I've look at it as much more vote I don't look at it in nihilistic way. I look at them. More positive way, which is that with this did happen, I mean something broke through and I don't think it's been perfect, but it something which we can capitalize on and build over decades, because I think God knows, I mean people need it right now. It's the worst economic crisis is a great depression. Why? were you and I agree- is a law and order needs to be re established endeavour? The reasons why I think that it needs to be re, establishes it there's a fire of consciousness, and this fire is you're allowed to loot and smash, and steel and people are doing that now and I won't take their due
when it in the member of George Floyd, and I think you gotta put that fire out, because one you allow people to do it like the plaza. Did New York City and forced to police to stand back. People know and get away with it? I've seen some horrific things, people running over people with cars and matching in the buildings and it's fucking madness when madness happens. You have to crack down. You have to do something about that swear I support whether it's the nest guard or if the police have the resources used the police, but something has to be done. When you saying, like President Trump D escalating on television. That is not going to do a goddamn thing about those kids. Smashing windows is not going to change their attitude there, not watching the news there not paying attention. They know they They have a very simplistic perspective. George Floyd. This is bad black lives, chaos smash that window take that shit, they're, not
say hey, you know one trumped Gunnar s knees. I was gonna, loot Gucci, but I'm not gonna. Do that and I do not think like that. This there's bolt fake bullshit on both sides yeah, but here we gotta do something to stop the fire. You gotta put that fire out then de escalate, but first the fire ass to stop this visit, it's an obvious mob mentality thing because no never seen this before no one of em there's Santa Monica was got running around with a gun, twenty people, people driving into fuckin people and knocking them over it's crazy It is not something that anyone expected seven days ago an end. It is a sign of like a breakdown of a society which, like their storm, there's no despair from three months of not working is unprecedented. You ve never at us I'm where, through no fault of your own, you are broke, you can't paved for food. You can't pay your mortgage. Can put your ran a you're fucked Anders no job lately had it's not like there's anything. These can go out in due to better their possession the amount of jobs that existed just three men
so go, it's drastically reduced, so their opportunities which are already slim did not have. That would mean we're talking, people getting out of college in two thousand twenty that how bad their economic opportunities are before all this. Harrison to the Hamas Tibet. If you're coming out of high school and in aren't gonna go to college, I mean total of most people, don't go to college right and sell penalizing smilingly. My only point is that the military is not us What is the solution that will the solution is, to actually do something of how the material condition all little goes. But right now there's a solution about the fire. How do you put out the fire, because there's a fire When these people are smashing windows, all down Fifth avenue, that's a fire right, but I've gotta talk where we view it differently. Is that, in my view, the tactics that grass of tactics that the police have used have only made that war? No, no
will you go you rightly on, though my view is, if you bring in the military. First of all, I find it. I find all of I've. I think we are getting far too comfortable, and this is partly part of the perfect storm with the pandemic, like we ve, become very comfortable with all these extreme limitations on our actions, behaviour wearing the mass in public, which creates a level of anonymity, like all of that, goes into this, so when, when we have a curfew imposed of one p m or five p m or six p m, or just good to go with that, but that should be taken in and of itself very seriously as infringe bent on first amendment rights. I grew so my point is that if you bring in the military it is frightening and in terms of our liberties, our ability to protest. Our first amendment rights, which are incredibly important- and I think ultimately only leads to additional violence- I think we're going round in circles here, because I agree with you on all those things and I, I am a hundred percent in support of the people protesting that a walk
this tree with signs about George Floyd and black lives matter, I'm a hundred percent and in favour of that. It's the looting. So how do you stop deluding you ve got to do something to stop deluding. If you don't stop deluding, it is two fucking containing start now. Where's your gassing protest startled at its ends that aren't Loca thing on their settings. I don't think so. I don't think they darted tier, gassing protesters after deluded after all, that shit go crazy, when they started cracking down on the protest. I think it's a mistake because I don't think they're connected. I think the people that are doing all deluding smashing are not the people at a peaceful protest and there's a ton of videos of people who were screaming if there's a one video of this girl whose yelling, at these these girls in front of a Starbucks into spray painting black lives better in african american girl and his white girl. Those operations like you want to fuck. Are you doing to last Signa blame on there's gonna say I mean she's? Why that look? That's a huge part of this whole thing, which is that airspace
middle class white liberalism and their inability to mean just as a whole element of white guilt and so much or there's an entire industrial industrial complex, set up to make white people in upper middle class. Why people in particular field, comfortable condemning looting and violence. In this particular scenario, even though everybody agrees with you, I mean pretty much. Everybody is like yeah protests. Refine looting is bad protests in great Britain, what happened to George, for it was fucked up. That's like one three at ninety five percent of people in this in this country would agree with something like that, and so that's why I think that that I mean look that that shows that? There is a man, a political way to be forged here, which is like, like you said, nobody thinks that this is no when he was defending. George Lloyd, no one, but I mean like Wash Limbaugh shocked. I saw this open with John Annie was like the marked as Marshall artists like putting his. His order sounded neck fright. He don't say that, don't you
Marshall. Besides, he said, as I know, I shouldn't rocket I'll. Have you decided events? No better talk calling me a basketball pillar play basketball couple thirty's like I've, been studying all seven years, since what would you recommend for kids wanna get into regions too? judges because there's no had trauma we're very little Is there a city like a thing is for sure? miles functional loud, you have you ve been hidden ahead, a bunch of times you most likely have it. I mean from the tunnels fifteen. Do I was twenty one twenty two us hidden. They had almost every day, there's I'm getting around it. You gonna get some form of brain damage. Chapman, there's not like a backlash against it, like with the NFL. Well, there is
I mean it's more internal. It's like, I feel, like the NFL, it's it's more prevalent and I think that the impacts are more devastating. When I want, so's huge super athletes running at full co but slamming any, which are that it's a fucking car accident and its a car accident multiple times a week and these guys are doing well, they were taking those big hit. Training as well. There was a study on football players. It found that between they they tested high school all the way up to NFL, and they said there was staggering number of people that heads eighty eight, including high, school kids like if you had a son, would you let me know fucking way, but I'd let him here. I have let him fight as a teacher modify correctly. I would say that you want to do. This is as dangerous as fuck, but you can do it in this. Benefiting knowing how to fight, is a giant Bennett if someone's trying to assault
and they don't know how to fight new. Do it's you just now you have seen fighter who is going, who is like helping out with some of the looting nurse was also on job. Yet he was like rate as John Jones grabbed these fuckin dipshit. Kids, that we're about to spray pay Gimme that all we need to reflect its prey breaking their just like us are sorry dove, dupe, evocative white kids and you just snatch third scraper camp at Johns out their boarding up, smash windows he's really trying to help. You know you see that guy. That is a european reporter, something Chris Palmer who was cheering on looting and rioting and then like worse, like right after you with issues like our neighbouring gated communities being targeted now get the fuck away like a perfect thing on Twitter, like the right, and that is its end. Look that gets what I because I live like that. Why ass light liberalism, this is like someone, these people. Would we be freaked out call the police of ending this thing ever? Have
but I feel happens in an affordable housing complex in Minneapolis than we think What has been interesting is that these rights have not just been in, the poor neighbourhood, or in the black, never I mean they have been all. I think, that's part of why people are so freaked out, as they ve been sort of intentionally in the wealthy parts of town as part of what makes it so unsettling for everyone across the board, and so you now look. I my only point is in Yes, looting, bad violence, bad, absolutely! All of that, but you can't imagine that the military is an answer to this situation. Yeah. I don't know what the answer is, but when people see the chaos in the world, the randomness of it all, that's what's really frightening. When people saw what was happening,
happening in Minneapolis as a direct result of a bad cop, killing a man grab that was handcuffed and not a threat whatsoever that then people say? Ok, I get these people write em when you see them smashing windows in Beverly, hills like what the fuck does. This have to do with George Floyd, like what is going on here, and how are you justifying this and they're? Not, but that's it. But that's the thing is it's not just a bad one, bad cop or even just policing, and we must remember right. It wasn't just one bad gather three the guy's a stand alone over some of those national do leave it on shore. But what I'm saying is that's why the spread across the country is because the grievances arts So that was the damage that last point we become. Prevention is not the large unaffected out. One thing marches in protest, not smashing the windows of target. In only did they did it. You're right industry from here with what the fuck does that have to do with anything else. Do nothing else, do it lawlessness and as do with people taking it Vantage of this situation and escalating also public signing
People of unilateral up in board is Fuckin Allison. I got something like it is: many ways similar to war- and this is why? Because when people are, they have a real cause and when war is going on, there's a lot of people there no, that of have served overseas and one of the hard costs. Jerry truth. Is it some of the best times their life gap Sebastian younger wrote a great book about a called tribe spent fantastic Dick book. There really gets the psychology of it, and you know this is a guy who was over there for long periods of time is a journalist when you are involved in this. You feel like you're fighting the good fight, and you like for corporate Amerika, like you know, you're fuckin. Twenty years old, you believe that shit, you know my friend Brigitte fantasy she's she's about Ryder Writer and she's, really hilarious, and she she was talking about some papers that she found. She wrote when she was twenty four and she's. Like those regions like holy fuck like I was,
doesn't like. I was such a radical insurance. I was like a sea, I settled, but I'm looking back back at it now grown grown ass woman go fuck was I do what was I thinking? I think that's what you're doing a lot of these idealistic kids. They think you're, going to tear it all down and burned to the ground, but they don't know where the fuck, their cell phone comes from, didn't know who makes their sneakers. They don't know what it what it cost. You the electricity on they have no foot, they have no machine.
In the game. I don't get their lot, I mean, but a lot of a lot of those young people, though I mean look, what is their life bed and knew their gradual, improvised graduate from college? I know very well what what the cost is and what the rent is and what it looks like for them in their life going forward, and that's exactly what, where that hopelessness analysis comes from, and that's what's that's really scares me there's this idea. I mean we're like. I know it's easy to say, but it really is true. We never seen any anything like this moment were living through with mass unemployment, great depression with pandemic, with these polarize politics, where nobody feels like any any hope of getting anything really accomplished through Washington. You add to it the chaos in the streets, and then there is no sign that this is all just gonna snapped back to normal and doesn't seem what instruments that back at all in this all happened like a snap. That's what's really fucked so quick because it seemed like ok, things were getting sort of off the rails off the rails off the rails and then all of a sudden, it's just
from memory has a from March when they shut down to earth suited, is shut down LOS Angeles first and then it was like holy fuck. We're locked down. Home. But we were worried about a disease and you know I was actually encourage during the early days because it seem like people, although scared where at least it's they are being nicer to each other and all the bullshit on Twitter seem to a six subsided, because people are dealing the real live pandemic and they were really worried about their own lives and the lives of their loved ones. Then as time dragged on as the pandemic was going into the second month, and people are really desperate now to work economic despair, kicks in anxiety, fixing and then people get shit you than ever people were mean, and you said suddenly be in nineteen. Eighty four you fuck had itself is now that we have it ready up to a higher level than it was I who is. This goes beyond just the way the lockdown was all handled right.
Utah exactly it's like. There was never any benchmarks, there was never any real understanding, Anita, it's funny cause. If you go back, we were one of the only people to be like sympathetic to the lockdown protesters. We were like a man like some. We still surgeon like all the artillery did your jobs as you can't work in all this and then not us? giving you the economic benefits that you deserve. That was something that we were very compassionate about me like I'm, nothing. We agreed at the time- and we really know, but it was like extent, that level of compassion to people who are put in situation, I think it's really port, and after some in the media I mean this is The thing we just talking about before is Kronos over right. Like nobody is talking about or maybe it's not. I don't know, but, like I haven't seen, anybody on cable news be like these durable programmes. A break in our current? You shut the fuck up. No one cares little over. It happened like that. The sense of threatening the story, the day, shifted and changed that quickly and yeah I mean. Where do we go from here
think. That's the thing that no one knows- and we have this presidential election looming in November and politics is never felt, serve more irrelevant and livelihoods. Romani really cynical, whose Arnold and eurobonds got a solution to this and Joe Bush Fuckin Beer, opera, just to make sure these, a solution- is already forgot it, and this is the problem with the way that the coalition's have broken down between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party is basically, the Republican Party has this affluent portion that they cater to, and then they have white working class that they serve culturally signal to the Democratic Party
Has an affluent portion like they're the pussy hat, like women's March type, suburban, affluent white women like that's, who they cater to along with sore a business interested in Silicon Valley interest, and then they culturally pandora and signal to the black and brown working class and the incentive is always to keep everybody divided, because if you actually had like a multiracial working class put together, then that's where the real power would be so it's you know it's. You have two parties, basically, that don't are very much invested in things. Staying as they are look riots in the streets pandemic, mass unemployment and a stock market goes up like that's that's where we are that the people who already have wealth and power in position benefit no matter what happens right if there's a pandemic, they benefit. If there is
mass unemployment they benefit it other than just show you the horse of what the stock market as though criminal acts are sure to grab a ritual peoples have always loved a brilliant quiet. I wanna take randomly on twitter, outwardly, wrote the brilliant value, that's the thing about Berlin, they feel good. I mean, if you look at that this is where I want to try and reclaim some level of positivity that's coming out of this thing, which is that look We are in the mid it's only in these huge mom, that you have an opportunity to actually do something right, like great Lenin quote, which is like some but like in a week ten years can have ten years can feel like a weakening week. Ten years where change can happen, I'm butchering it Somebody can look around you, don't let it good cried only arises whereby there is somebody grave there's something to be said for that, and I think that this is why more optimistic from like the right and the left. The left us may this, like a kind of explicit decision to like you know like
the Bernie Sanders Movement realign around the white with a white upper middle class. Suburban I'd, like Joe, Biden is doing Joker events like literally yoga events for women. Why who pay like at even a page somewhere out one found last pay money to item? Do yoga he's doing the ogre insight of that? Do you have a thousand, but on a ride like like where things are still very like the air right, like you still have people who are like people, I call it we're like frozen. Its trump is the populace present and, I mean look. I have my. I have a pike ass called the realignment with my friend. Marginal costs live like this is literally what we try and do like we're working on a few, interesting things here, but like what we tried to park as his work? The? What are the actual policy positions that, like a populist right, would will look like, like a new trading relationship with China, ruins, like, oh dear Doubling like we got a softer trade which I will go with MAX you mean or like on immigration, like what is actually mean to restrict immigration in America like what levels like wow does it doesn't, even
wages like, I would say yes and that something that a lot of people I very hard to prove otherwise, but it's about working away. It's about. You can real line. The republican party to not just have the white Working class, but you can have a significant portion of the black and brown people color all working class Americans? That is a huge winning coalition for the rights in order to move forward? It only requires them to, I wouldn't say, move left on on economics, but to move back to where, in order to the centre on economics. Away from this, more libertarian minded right and around using racist rhetoric, citizen, but that that has The large do it is because it's always there always gonna call your racist. They can't say they can't move right, or can I can't move right on culture? which is cause to them. They like shit. Let's ride like you, have to have the cultural issues. That's what stops at only one includes the term. You ship it's a biblical term like it's like
I saw no West Wing episode that shows our deasey are you? I was more depressed, I guess, during the phase of the pandemic, when it just seemed like everyone was crushed, and everyone was apathetic and everybody was just like in their base manner in their apartment, wondering how they're gonna make rent next month, or they were one of those frontline workers who was shot. You knows out on the front lines: Megan, seven, twenty five arrests through life, its bed, Nuno at sea, vs or whatever. It was the fact that people are in the streets
especially, of course, that the people who are peaceful and who are enraged and who are actually taking matters into their own hands in that way like I actually find that to be the most hopeful thing like imagine. If, if someone's life could be casually snuffed out, like George Floyd's was and there was it a reaction- and there wasn't rage like to me- that would be a profound only more troubling state of affairs, then, frankly, what we're saying right, I know its most troubling about that footage is that he knew whose being filmed milk the bystanders are they are saying what are you doing like? Does he have all send its so called hands in his pockets? Just so casual and he's going to be using years him like this yeah yeah black gloves, I look at his hands in his pockets, hard to tell but The point is, he was nonchalant about having his knee on this guy's neck, also he's in like a drain, so there's a debit there. So there's like an edge. That's pressed against his neck so he's got on one side.
Got a knee on his neck. On the other side, he's got this cement drain. The whole thing is if it means the fact that those three copses sat there and let him do that and didn't I dont understand mean I don't know the men had been charged that doesn't exist Readjusted also means that they pro We do that shit. All the time. Do you? Usually we actually looked at the data and the reality is they do do that shit all the time and three slash five of a time that they use. That particular hold to unconsciousness three slash five of the times with african american men. They use that when they d on your neck to unconscious. Not I think, I think it's chokehold us what chokehold to unconscious spoken. There was any kind of thing over and over five years, two hundred forty five times to unconsciousness and three fifths of them were african american men. So yeah it's it. Should the cat the video itself and how casual it was and how standard it was. The guy passed to forge twenty dollar bill like
That's it it's insane and with people's work, because a covert right and if people didn't feel something from that moment, and were in the streets wrote. That is what to me would be more troubling Well, it's one of the worst videos we ve ever seen, because it's like this pro law press vaults, completely unjustified right. It's not disguise in a fight for his life against this guy. Now, no evidence at all that he was doing anything to to merit any brutality. There is nothing I mean even is too walking like their lead him across the trees, not resisting he's trying to run away. I don't know how it got to the point where that guy was on his neck, but the fact that those other copses sat there so fuck and what is happening sin- and you know this is probably a tank Amy quote Bashar chance everywhere. If we did all with this kind of crazy because a wide and it just vetted her for VP and then all of a sudden out of nowhere, this happens, it turns out two thousand six that fucking cop was doing that shit. We're
Then she didn't do anything about it. He sat at many many civilian complaints against I care I dislike seventeen or nineteen different civilian complaints against someone, nothing arab and there so many good so. There are so many good cops and when you see one like that, it's just there's a great video and have talked about this before, but I say it again of a Flint sheriff from Flint Michigan talking these people saying. Look, I'm gonna put the baton down we're gonna, we're gonna March with you, but see you. I want you to have their eyes. That is the rather than to military, has that that in what it that leads you, that D escalated that lead to. Let you ride, I gotta have route that doesn't this wilder's looting he's he's immediately, but for the rest, all those of that approach rather than crackdown, tear gas rubber bullets in the hundred tenuous us versus then in the end, the militarization. All of that that approach lead to less viable, I agree
you! But all that approach that the crack down to your guest happened after the looting. That's that's the impetus for it. It's not like. They saw these people protesting that you're just gonna start shooting tear gas into the protein feed that effort, but that's where we saw here. As always, I hear the first people we saw were burning down things in Minneapolis and they allowed that and Cyrus. Talking about it. That's that's really were all took place. Seeing people get away with shit like that is like ok, now, there's a fire of the mind yet and that farming and to be playing at people understand is in a war contacts. Rightly, fires like that's why we have very like strong rules and engage like people understand that the way the psychology of taking on this can happen and that that Minneapolis looting that target it was a beacon. It was message, any any shit has a you're talking about. We can get away with it and the night after night after night after night, that's our fifth Avenue mean use, I am sure the same videos. I did you like organised gangs like people with car getaway cars, lookouts posted on the coroner
all that we're where's he Nypd. I'm in that vat is, though, that breakdown is a very poor. Just stay, and this is not on the right front. I mean look Baltimore, two thousand fifteen. They had these level of riots. What happened massive economic destruction but worse That is that police and many others have took a much more sk averse approach to the way that they were going to a community. The key screaming for police persistent perfectly. For this reason, which is that in the aftermath we know from, Many these rise from M K Times and after Baltimore it cause massive economic destruction to these cities. It is not a noble thing to allow this to continue its actually. Your job. As a city, I mean it. The whole move, I mean underground. Nobody wants to say this: a lot of capital eleven cities now because of what we are fortunate all lock. I live in eight hundred square foot, a party of Fuckin, terribly ITALY, locked down an eight hundred square foot apartment and the only thing you do, they go to the grocery store. I can't go out to eat or doing
and now I got shit like being blown up in the streets like couple blocks from my house like I don't really know. If, if that's the city life is, all that enticing out their crystal yeah. They go out from the sky, but I had a lot of people were thinking that, which is that? Hey? You don't fuck! This, why am I saying all this rant living soul, this box and then maybe get you know my shit get working remotely. You know, there's a dismal good good argument for that. Now to so many people realize I mean maybe there's one good things going to come out of this as it people won't be stuck in cubicles, maybe, can work from home more often, I am concerned for the future, but I think that there needs to be some. National address, that is about law enforcement and about the rules of engage, and about the way we treat people that are says there are citizens that our committee I especially with non violent crimes like a fucking fortune, gorge dollar
and that's where it's mom I mean those individual cops, should be accountable hundred percent- and you know the fact that the three that just stood by like nothing, has happened. Also, they haven't been fired, know they were far there yeah, but but I mean To me, that is just unconquerable, but its aid also speaks to the fact that it was casual the pact that was repeated. The fact that there were these complaints and nothing was ever done. It speaks you, a larger systemic problem that that the data backs up, and so part of you know. The challenge of this moment is also the fact that we are essentially leaderless like there is no trusted national there's, no trust in our institutions. There's no trust in the media. Theirs. Trust invested in any sort of a national unifying figure, and so it's Another reason why this moment is so incredibly fraught because who would even give that address that anyone would really listen to near it some
so that is the usual you gotta. Do it that's real things, you're off the fear factor guy handle everything. That's all my mind. It would be a parental guy did so every apprentice do no fear. Guy he's. GonNA is going to help us through the regular talking through things. Might I was like you're fucked me swears a lot right. That's right! That's rather allow shit. I mean there's theirs gotta, be some sort of gigantic change, the way an you're talking about There has been some change in Baltimore because of the rights had happened there and there has been a response and has to be some sort of national response, and you know one good one thing to come out of it is: there needs to be a better system for vetting people for law enforcement. It can't just be you want the job.
Okay, can you do tension chin ups? Do you have a criminal record of your soul? Heroin? No, ok, your cup! It can't be that it's gotta be very difficult to be a cop, because it's one most difficult job, it's an insanely, difficult job. It's crazy that some of the most difficult jobs that we have are the least paying the hey the less like, like teacher right leg. They paid then at sanitation asian working? It is people who literally meant that we're all diem central now during the pandemic like who literally allow the country to function, make the least Many one entered treated like they art human. I mean nazi of a thing like their fungible goods to be fired, indisposed with an thrown onto the front lines in a pandemic and not given any production like that is the way
that they are treated data day and I know about the one hundred whirlwinds right government will be raising labour illustrious face it. We're gonna replace with slight yeah. Let's get out, there is actually one thing we have implied. I haven't body enough which is password pay that unease. That is something that I cannot believe that it hasn't gotten done. I mean actually Mitt Romney propose twelve dollars extra per hour to end The patriot pay me around in a halt, but he's a very reasonable guy. I'll, try and think about, like the workers are not poor. Processing massive outbreak said well. You know it's crazy, a lot of those people, a symptom thrilling, it's really weird yeah yeah in also presents You know, there's a lot of prison outbreaks and they found that there are some dramatic and contrary to the way in. Actually I talked about this with car kalinowski. We he was saying. Well, you look at it this way, like those of the people that have a strong immune system, because their constantly on top of each other
it's true pay browsers. I mean it's also. We that's also how it spread through them mean these but I think high stress, terrible diet. You locked in a cage boy how the fuck of these people are symptomatic, but this is a rare disease. That's also part of the problem is that this is a novel grown of our that's right gets me about issues like I don't know what the fuck do believe about right, like all this in. For me, oh, these studies been debunked. Actually, no animal everybody's got antibodies know nobody has antibodies what antibodies so now the mortality rate is one percent point or what but like I don't know what to trust I mean I didn't want to be: You brought up, which I thought was great points at Y know. We talk about immunity here, like out a boost. Your it is not a single rules are very small, began to dig zones where a mask ran away from everybody, but not vitamin D. When their dealing with these people in new orleans- and there was a study in Indonesia, the church
I and percentage like more than eighty percent of the people there. In the I see, you have a vitamin d deficiency Four percent didn't write. Four percent of the people who live in icy, you had sufficient levels of vitamin d and how many people in general have a vitamin d to massive. Yes, seventy percent and count it just in this in this country, not noncom for no motorways, I'm just trying to keep people in country have insufficient vitamin d and twenty nine percent are deficient, meaning and dangerously low levels. Now, when you add covert Something like that. I think that speaks to one problems will deal with this mortality rate, obesity, people of insulin, resistance people like real underlying health problems? And you could say that? Well, you know we had. It was set up to protect those and that this is the reason why we locked down the country. Ok, maybe, but you didn't do
we think about immunity. You didn't tell anybody to do things differently. There is no public service announcement telling people hey. If you cut down on sugar and cut down on alcohol and take cigarettes out of your life, you have a radically increased chance of beating So I can tell you: how are we supposed to survive in quarantine with alcohol out? We did during the zero with a crazy, a liquor stores were deemed essential businesses and alcoholics. Anonymous was not they. They shut down, colleagues and but they kept liquor stores open. I mean many people fell off the wagon during this time alone, I told you I'm sure you're in anxious, but I saw some study about the number of Americans who are showing signs of anxiety and depression during Moyo I mean it's completely. You been cut off from all of your coping magnets ethically and if you ve lost your job, you ve lost. You know a central point of meaning in your life and ability to provide for yourself
your family. It's it's on real ends. You know the fact that basically a herd of early on who was it? Was it somewhere in the house, who was like we'll come back and work some more if there's an emerge, a national in case of national emergency only combat girl, there's a pandemic and millions of people lost their jobs. What are you type, but that's been the bloody attitude because there was an foreigners career does not their money. Money thought Pierre Jabba Newsome Mark our governor one of the five more ridiculous quoth. He said. If we keep our mass, I wouldn't get back some of our freedoms. You fuck you, mother, Fucker hey, fuck you and allay to his first. They were like three months now and then they just like took oh and unlike wheat, why? How did you learn something my aunt JANET? Who owns this fantastic restaurant in Venice? They just Felix just told her out where you reopen, but no, nope regulation.
Immigration. She could only ten days issue goes like gonna fuck, and I are all these people back said everything all of a sudden. We know warnings that just now, but I think we are dealing with this unprecedented economic despair where there in someone's like hey. You know you ve only. Two thousand deaths in the whole state. There's forty million fucking people how many people have died, a heart attacks during a tap more, how many people die of cancer more? How many people died of obesity and other than interrelated helped did problems that come with that a lot more there's a lot. A fucking people dying gripe to thousands of good number. It sucks that those two thousand people died of this disease, but you can't just shut down. On the whole country. You can't shut down the economy because there is a direct correlation between a dip in the economy and an increase in deaths due to suicide due to drug overdose is due to all sorts of problems, starvation that we ve been living like that now for ten years you know, since two thousand- and eight basically like will wipe out
home owners, are actually black, homer, sharp wealth, black wealth and black homeownership under President Obama's presidency- and it was during- at time that when the economy was coming back, it was all under employment. It was all like in the gig economy. It was all like in a way that just it was oh, not in some more secure way than it was before the crisis, and that is actually part of why this makes this economic crisis so bad right because even gets rid of those types of job seekers going to the great recession, we lost a majority middle income, jobs and coming out, we gain majority, lower income jobs and that's when the gig economy crops up, and so people are pushed even more to the edge than they were before and you know, may not have health insurance, don't have savings, lake or peace in it together with a couple different, gig jobs, and that there is an author who calls it the precarious that group of of workers who, in other piecing together they don't have
any sort of net below them, and then you layer, on top of that, like that's a group of people who is either on the front, lines- and you know the processing plants are delivering. The packages are doing in the everyday fur. Lucky folks like us who could just order and no problem, don't worry about it or they lost their job altogether and or just slake, wouldn't know, sir that it's ever going to come back. How am I going to? How am I going to make rent this month like the the a lot of rent forbearance, is ending right now and nothing, been done to help and it's all gonna be in full total chaos after this rioting and no one knows what they have, and I want to ask both you guys this, If you had a match, Kuan Yew, the king, the world, how did we come out of this house to start with? You, what do you mean how do we all of How did we come? How did we come everybody's wondering Riah. The big question everybody has right now is how does this and how do we come out of the economic despair caused by the pen?
Denmark? How did we come out of the riots? How did we come out? All this I mean, I think you have to do. B. I and you have to do some sort of mass federal Jobs programme to get people back to get them back working to get them back. On their feet to to rebalance the playing field, I think you have to do those too, thanks and, I would also say universal health care. How many those twelve hundred our church one did the only once Zeit of them once they are ones that does fucking preposterous, get one time that was it like a k born, I suppose, keep doing. That was now that we ve never part of the hello is that so How do we get out of this whole riot thing? I mean, I think these things go together. I also think that you have to have some said some sort of systemic policing reform like what you're talking about in terms of the training in terms of chokehold being illegal, in order to for people to feel like. There are some real progress. I don't think I'm gonna throw illegal. I think if you try,
If someone's trying to kill someone someone's trying to stop, someone would have you if you're a cop and you're in a fight for your life, against someone. Who's done something horrible. You should be able to use Jujitsu one of the best techniques and jujitsu choking people unconscious, and it's not that dangerous, it's not is. Andrews is beating someone it's not as dangerous his head trauma. What that guy did was just torture yeah- that's what he did- it has nothing to do with utilizing a good Marshall, our technique to subdue some sort of which one hears the other piece set as a whole other can of worms by you know. A lot of this policing has to do with the drug war. I mean a lot of the militarization and the racism within policing comes back to the the drug war in the way that we handle. All of that. For sure yeah, maybe, but you know, to do with PTSD as well. I mean, I think, there's a ton of cops out their running around with just unmanageable PTSD when he served in the military, jazz
it's a lot of citizens out there PTSD for sure, but they're not point people over the pillar getting pulled over. I rise brain can people over every day with PTSD leads to terrible choices. I think there's a lot of these cops, too much violence. It too much death. I was actually talking to friend of mine, about it yesterday and someone who she grew up with who had ozarks different front. He grew up with had and who lives in a small town in nine thousand people and thought that, where they lived, was you know it's fine normal place and became a cop and over the course of ten years of being a cop has a completely jaded and fucked up attitude about human beings now because it walked in on people with brains, blown out, stabbed death and raped, and just every fucking day I find some new reason to hate everyone and they're just broken and then- and I think this is a thing that hops, and they evidently parsimony over. This could be the last day of life. This guy's gonna tinted window.
No one who knows what's going on inside this car. Who knows this is of a fugitive. Who knows what and that's it that's a deeper question about our society is not like that everywhere I mean it's not. First of all, you don't have the level of violence everywhere that we have here. You don't have the level of cop to citizen, animosity and violence that we have here I mean that's it. That's a really deeper question about what we're doing in society. Led to those outcome. Loud have all the answers, you wrote the others, it's it's it's an effect that has accumulated over time to and to bring it back in the other direction to have some sort of a positive relationship between the police officers in and the communities. They serve. One thing that my friend immortal technique brought up about it, sheriff in Flint. He said: Flint has a very unique relationship with the with the police and the people in the community, because they're all dealing with that water problem there on it together and speak in a lot of the people that are please
officers. There also live in the community, with an eye in their kids were poisoned shale gas. I think people living in the community, the police is also wasn't. It has been very proud of their LOS Angeles that there have been the day like a lot of the cops I didn't actually live in a way that was very much like a tramp, yeah they're, all unseemly, rallied dont go Robin House and see a lot of those things Blue, I'm your marriage and flowers, the problem in New York City, as while you're here on, because it so expensive that it makes it impossible single source or last people to be able to live in a city that they are actually policing. I mean look, there's a an ugly history around policing in America. If you go back to a lot of the police departments in the south were put in place to enforce Jim Crow style laws, I mean there has been a long history of basically there being a community that is protected and a community. That is policed, and so those are our deep problems to solve you're not going to solve them overnight. You're not going to pick one piece of legislation, that's going to fix it like that, but I think of you have that
Dixon, that understanding and let your not just saying: oh it's just this one bad person or that one bad person that we have a bigger structural issue than you can start to move for people. People just need to feel like progress can be made. I mean I think that's One of the biggest problems in this moment is there's. This sense of nothing is going to change. Nothing has changed, they had body cameras, they didn't have em on, you know they were being filmed and they didn't fuck and care it didn't matter, it didn't make a difference, and so, if you can at least give people that sense that no the political system can work on your Half then you start to move in the right direction is an amazing. The one person in one horrific act, one part of Minneapolis and start this explosion about that lights, the whole country, far unbelievable protests their protests overseas to adjourn. I am right
a man, is weird in New Zealand as our protests in New Zealand style Bender was, in the protests, same question to you how to fix this so on the rock star with rights, because I think my views, clear, re, establish law and order. Agree, we re you use that opportunity to seize upon again the fifty plus one things, what we all learn through this pandemic, it's pretty stupid that our corporate elites and our political elites allow many of our most critical jobs and industries nor to go over to China. That's an empirically stupid there, yeah. Reassuring american supply chains makes us safe, in the long run, both from an economic respect from national security perspective, health perspective, etc. Like eight, the China thing is like a ninety ten issue and right now and make sure I call this out, which is that there are elements in the White House, more corporate, friendly ones who are trying to quash a by american order that was put forward in a within the trumpet illustration that doesn't even call for mandatory, like on shoring of medical supply chains, but just like
wants to use the substantial tax rebate on stuff to encourage over ten years. I think it's pregnant fashionable at something like that. Ninety ten issue, after something like this hasn't been pass. I think on trade It's the same thing as the broader question of so much of what we have such as China. I mean this overwhelming thing in our trading relationship, but it's like a great nation makes things worse self, there's a great essay. I read, it was like make America a target again. An all, is like making everything here Am I saying that knew all the libertarians in a very upset about mean start sending these comparative advantage means, but, like There is a real benefit to be able to make things in America and that, if just because it's cheaper the the altar of globalization, the altar of cheap prices has made us make her political choices over the last forty cage and going on man and praying towards. Alter has me it so that we are less safe. Last of less robust,
less, I mean socially know if the two to live in a town and to have a factory which is produced seeing something and to feel pride in your work and get paid a good wage and to know that at the explicit decision of Congress or to let China do join and double or China joined the deputy o, restoring to permanent norming relation checked permanent, normal trade relationship with China. And watching that factory go away like this. You know why that went away and people made that choice, because they said fuck you you're better off, if cheaper tv they fed not GDP will go on GDP to grow at a dead, and it was great for a few people. I think that you have to acknowledge that there is like a deeper wrought in the society where the fundamental promise has been like. If you have cheaper staff- and you can buy more like cheap chinese crap you're gonna be happy right, that's gonna, be the key to happiness
and so everything has been used to justify those ends, and it hasn't made us happy. It hasn't made a satisfied hasn't brought us any sort of spiritual, nourishment or community and community as something that we have completely sort of dismissed with and dispatch with India valued in the country as well, some of this is not like easy. Here's, a law you can pass on your good to go. But I think it does start with this phenomenon all idea, which comes back to kind of the core of our show that human beings are worthy, that they have dignity, that they have rights that should be secured, and if you can take that kind of Fdi
economic rights model and actually implemented into place, where people feel that they are valued and seen and heard and have agency in power in the society than you are not going to have to call in the military to american cities. You're not gonna end up with a situation like we see right now that spiralling and spiralling spiralling out of control. That's another thing in terms of what I would do it's like we have to. We have to reorient our economic life and our economic policies in order to incentivize the building of communities in the building of institutions that exist outside of just the outside of just a direct check from a government or direct check from your workforce, its needs to be about the way that America was like probably most united we ever were was around like in the ninety six now look, I know arrangement. There were terrible things to happen. There were exposed.
In the civil rights are and all that, but you know broadly what was it was like unions, it was about higher wages and it was about the strength of the american family and that something I mean every data we see Lois marriage rate on record in two thousand and eighteen, because, and what's the number one reason that people cited not being able to get married doesn't well under way. Thanks! It's not going to let no man, people still want to get married issues if they can afford to marriage is lost. We order now, like honey, is released last week. That TAT just cannot allow Yang. I am, I think I think we need to reorient our economic life in order to bolster the american fan and this this. This is something very much part like the new right movement. There's a new organization called American Compass run by a friend of mine or cast historic from it Romney and now he's trying to do. Is you move the european, these issues towards central economic, like restoring, like economic conservatism from economic libertarian,
in his arm, and what I mean by that is free market fundamentalists at the free market is always good. Look like the free market Is it a good thing once again that we couldn't make ventilators in our country when we thought we needed them like ways it a good thing that we, manufacturers and medical supplies and then by look in the terms of the immediacy. What I would do its this payroll plan, it's so critic that we restore Americans payroll and that we. Try to make it so that these businesses don't become failed, distressed assets that get rolled up into these huge private equity conglomerates at by them all offer cheap that fox over workers, fox businesses and just make em
do you want to live in a highly in a world where there's no mom and pop businesses or no dive bars anymore? That's where we're headed right. We have to make sure we prevent, I think, to people will put up with a lot of shit and they will persist and they will invest in a community invests in their lives on vaster, productive, civil society. If they feel that they have they, they believed that life will get better for themselves and their kids- and I really think that's kind of the core breakdown- is that people no longer have that confidence that for their kids, it's they're going to be able to have it better than they had and when you lose that sense of hope, that's when things go off the rails, I think there's also a real problem with this election in the US our approach, Trump person, which you're happy trumps gonna run again, but if you're a Democrat you're
really settling. We all know, you're really really saddling again. You're, making me right now, Jack up speaking everyone whose on the left has any seventy and well and also that you it so clearly highlights the people that are full of shit, that are just supporting the fact that you know you You gonna vote left no matter what an EU here. This thing, like I'm, just voting for the cabinet on voting for One thing that I keep hearing over and over again is am voting for a woman's right to choose and, unlike ok, the, I agree with a woman's right to choose, but is that the number one thing for running the country is a person's We too aboard a baby. Is our really what will exert really what it boils down to an and I'm not? I'm not saying that lightly, but what its it's very sad that weren't position in two thousand twenty that we we to say I'm just footing for the cabinet. I just want to vote left voting for the Supreme,
hopefully on a matter here, because automatics banks that are leading the boar week, we cover the comical chamber. There was an end. This was Democrats made fun of Trump voters for being culture s last time round, trunk came out that I could shoot someone on Fifth avenue, they'd silvo for me and you're, an idiot right, that's ridiculous. A woman, Phoenicia writer at the Masion just wrote disputes peace that she started off. If Joe Biden boiled and eight babies, I would still vote for now look issue being hyperbolic, of course, but the central concept of like it doesn't matter or what he does it doesnt matter. I will justify it if it's just a hair s breadth better. In my view than Trump
and look I mean ultimately, maybe the election is that existential, and maybe things are going author- that Europe, like ok, will at least Joe is gonna, be now somewhat normal, induce nothin ordering arm all presidential things by that type of politics is deeply destructive, because if, if everything can be justified, if Europe, slag slow lately better than the other side of the lesser of two evils. Dynamic is hell that you can never escape from. Isn't he? U? Seventy yeah, so he'll be eighty six wait a second seventy eight or seventy seven. I think you, seventy seven gas. It was before the fuck. You ever saw him right here at the end of the line becoming bony with seventy eight years Ernie. He seemed much more vibrant. Whenever mean fellow is head does in the middle of his chance reason in it. Just feels like he's falling apart, and the idea that he's gonna be here in eight years, causes of the problem. Your vote,
for him, not just for now your voting for him if he wins you're, hoping you last two terms also here I sell your also voting for whoever its vice premier is, who not only maybe you know, will be the next democratic nominee, and then you know eight years of them, but also because of his decline, have a lot more influence and power may be pulling the strings depending on who it is and look he's already said. He wants to pick some ways consulting with Wall Street as to who we should pay. His donor class is like having a lot of say over who we should pay is going to pick. Someone is basic, just like him ideologically so you're looking at may be twelve years of essentially being like. While I guess this is got some voting for the Now I, as vice president, is gonna, be like a democratic. It's gonna be some sort of a dictator
situation? We have heard that my favorite quote from buying, as you want to make the Democratic Party a bridge to Peat Buddha judge those like the real thing. There's people like peat and those who I'm so comfortable right, that's the bridge I was ready to right, MR is up yeah- I don't know, if he's a nice guy, but he just seems so plastic it seems so reaffirms it's an empty. It's just about is a young guy too, which is part of the problem. Urea thrusting some of the national spotlight. There was the mayor and running while he was a mayor for that. Doesn't I dont understand that when you
mayor, isn't it really fucking important to cure your city? Well in his wasn't pseudo as well? How does it work? Do you remember the only peoples in the principle in the primary who even covered how the city of South Bend itself felt about piano judge there is that there is this, like celebrity culture around politicians. Now, if I go to tag moderately like Cuomo as it does a great press conference, and that's all that matters there's this Stacy Abrams he's also been talking about for a vice presidential pick there. She sort of created this brand image of being very much on the left, very progressive, a very different sort of politician? But if you actually look at her record in Georgia, she was going to win. This is not like. Maybe, if you're a centrist, this is a good thing. It's not my politics, but she was very centrist corporate friendly. That was the type of halo,
can that she was, and no one ever actually covers her record was kind of fundamentally disrespectful to her she's politician. She did things she has a record instead, its this light, car dashing type coverage, church, all the diversity boxes, that's exactly you. I was, the marriage cargo. When I was there, I was like she's woman, she's, black and cheese gay. If she just was transgender and a Muslim she would have all the infinity stones lay the work ever existed. Red locks with global. She can't every blocks covers not seen a video where she's talking about. We interviewed people, women who reads she's, been I'm sure, there's a video. What she's talking about the new world order? This is video, this being passed around and conspiracy. Theory twitter I'm not seeing, as you know, the video Jimmy Jimmy confined the video, I think Eddie. Bravo put it on twitter page. That says, luck, Instagram page
but is essentially she was talking about picking leaders that will comply with the new world order. I know what the context of what she was saying, but then I got passed around like luxury the new world order, Shell guy, like all the tenant. Oliver, that's all uneasily world. All these illuminato need five g cover. Your had slackened, five GMO. It's everywhere, be careful, yeah, she's, she's, You know a very popular politician for a lot of good reasons, but it's also one of those things. Where, when someone says something like new world order, you say just that phrase alone, like that's a hot button phrase for other conspiracy people. I rely when you have cargo, though, when you have no one whose trusted in the media. The sort general societal breakdown in
general than not stuff flourishes more than it would. In normal times as offices echo, chambers of conciliation furious and left wing people were pundits and right wing people. This echo but some of the most disturbing parts of interaction with people online, because you can find someone did agrees with you, and you know a few a person that likes to challenge your thoughts and ideas. You can just bout so far, and things around with all these other knucklehead to believe the same shit you do that definite out. I found a look, and I just now it's been fact check to be out of context choruses course. I just want to know what the hell she say. Otherwise, this work so eliminated. Players in Jamaica Mandate, and then you to training particularly in the sea. Common licensing departments wonders zoning, Buildings housing obey, impact by applying, certainly at its annual, and you picked up,
upon a run was agencies and the deputies in relation to the new world order and good governance. You have inspector general participants I get was used to say, I think, which is like a new era of city government? Is that I sat with no actually saying Lord Vader sang Fledgling Vader open your eyes are not just a desire to charge ill everywhere. You five g, see he's covering for them. Member with a bill gates. Is the devil, get your microchips fuck you bill, gates the bad guy. Now, how did that aben? Did you see trump than from church hold net bible- is a dirty diaper. He's like look after my arrival in my hand, TAT what really while they doubtless gray, is hilarious first, while they tear gas or the fuckin protesters to get em off the street nuclear
ST out and then Trop walked across the street like there's, never been a president, so bold to walk, he's walking, sidewalks streets is boarded down church, it's a Larry us. I mean they probably at snipers all over the room Della dirty diaper he's holding that thing like like look, I've got my Bible, mother, Fucker. Read me. One passage. Look at me ass. If it was, his bible is, like a boy say, rights by all its ay ay. By thanking fair, I got it hotel. I was Dan YA mean what what what is it Why Mozilla looted by? What then, is the most ill conceived? Pr stunt that I've ever seen, I mean maybe yet I actually thought about this too, because look, I mean their main reason. The main reason like Trump has such a solid hold on the on the right like on the republican base, so to speak is because actually of the judges thing of the Supreme Court thing, which you were talking about, of collecting MIKE pants, who has a lot of credibility in the
even Jellicoe community, so I think that I mean a lot of people were outraged. I saw this. This was a very like right thing. When that you know Saint John Church that church that you are saying that was set on fire and so I get was set on fire, and there was a lot of people like. First of all, there I think was Brian stellar over at sea and end was actually know it's not on fire. They delete. Twenty Santiago was Bush as adorable he's a horrible little. Shell is e, something else, but so like that There was all that and they look. There wasn't a lot of outrage around the fact that the church guts on fire, so I get what he was signalling to look. I agree I told Christmas morning the show Kyrgyzstan protesters in going out there for the photos. Up on like that, I don't think it was the best move. Can you imagine being so in secure that you're, the President of the United States, like you, have nuclear arsenal and the full Merrick military at your disposal and your so in secure that you have to show your strength in that moment by walking across the park.
And reportedly he was upset because it had come out that they had like had to go down the bunker on Friday or say at another night or whatever, when there are protesters, and so this was his way to reassert his manhood. But I think that's why I say I don't think that he has like a real. I think he has stinks. I hope he has a real ideology. I don't think he s like a goal or a mission or a project he's trying to accomplish. I think he's just all it. I think it's all just about like how do I reclaim this new cycle? How do I win the day? Actually interviewed him back before he was an official candidate at the White House, correspondence
I was doing like. I was like on the rope line during linked the celebrity interviews like sticking MIKE and peoples if a threat of ridiculous, but so he comes in, and this is at a time when airlines, like others, just publicity, son he's not gonna, run riot and comes out with morning. It wasn't that want. It was maybe the one after when Brok Obama one of em like that, and so he comes up to me- and this is what I was at MSNBC end not like particularly prominent. There was one of four on a panel show any walk size of meaning like crystal. Oh, my God is so great to meet you like. Even then, this it was like Aryan having torrent. You guys are so great together on the cyclic. He knew the show. Clearly he was here Rudy able obsessed with cable news and all the ends and cable news any region. Oh my god. I can't believe I get to meet Crystal Ball MIKE.
Y know, who I ever bizarre we're, but with such a little insight into his whole wiring, and so he knows more than anyone like what is going to be provocative to these stupid. Talking heads on came what is gonna capture their attention? What is gonna be outrageous? What's gonna win the day and I dont think that there is much beyond that thinking of like how do I win this new cycle? How do I change the topic? this new cycle. So there certainly part of that. But the thing is that wouldn't explain why Trump has been sceptical of the global financial system since, like nineteen, seventy eight right like there's that old clip of him on Oprah unlike night a lot of talk about Japan and carried a mean he's a he's. Even I've heard this from a friend. He was citing light one of my friends, Michael Land, whose, like very nationalists on trade policy in the mid two thousand was like Michael Lynde, is right about trade like he was he's clearly been. Thinking about this for a long time and our Migration in particular, I mean
that's another one. Where he's always kind have been there he's always had the instant I mean his real genius was looking at. What did the base of the Republican Party actually want? They want better trade deals and they want less immigration and for decades now all the professional right has been able to give them we'll cut your taxes, that's a priority. It'll never actually happen, and then that is now and then the eldest son. Both force because we're good on abortion and were good on guns. And that wasn't enough for a lot of people- and you can see- who, in this, what I meant about making it the cynical choice when you would asked your position on immigration and on trade. You in all of these Obama Trump voters all throughout the MID West anyway, On the present I mean, and even in the USA was enough, there's still a lot more work. Don't, I think, needs to realign more to the issue what I'm talking about but to say that it's all just eight is just I mean that's not his his driving force like if you see the way our having interacted with
just like Howie how he reacts. A certain things are either isn't condensed ideology and what he is otherwise, you wouldn't have run away way was: wouldn't have had those positions for such a time on the core issues that actually matter to why he was elected and so the real issue, and I think the criticism of valid criticism is he wasn't able to enact those political instincts into the actual. Staffing of the White House in the White House, personnel policy and there's a great, is a great book called the years of Lyndon Johnson in history of L, B, Jays for volumes and all that Robert Carolyn, that's biographers of all time, any closer guiding, Tommy Corcoran, who was after years of right hand, man he's like what is a government garments out, one man, governments a first hundred men first thousand. They all have to be united in a common purpose, nor to actually get shit down and bureaucracy. The truth is we have two thousand- is that on the right after trumps election, The orange seen all these professional right, wingers,
conservative establishment. They were the thousand, and so that's why you get something like the tax cuts bill, the tenth tax cuts in jobs. That is because I, like your Paul Ryan, has been fantasizing about pushing that for such a long time. You need grieve Trump on trade. It blatantly disagreement, agree with tromp on immigration, completely they were these guys were masters above all, Mr Prodi, you can't get that you got past this task. For my You get what you want, you spending, but you just gotta put this in the spending bill for, and they snookered basically they shook him. Because Trump is, I mean, look, he was a political novice. He didn't actually know about, policy was made in Washington DC, it's fucking complicated matters a lot who the deputy secretary of Commerce is like you and I are gonna- know that person's aim that person sort of certifies like steel, tat yeah. I still think that's letting him off the hook too. Much, though, because, like I mean you see in this in this crisis right if ye may, if he may have some instincts, he may have some ideological leanings in your right. He's been talking about this. Some of this stuff especially ends
for a long time. But when it came down to it you now he was the first people he called in the corridor virus crisis. For economic reform, odds were corporate Sea Wall Street executives like that's, who we want to to get his advice. That's your white! He trusted and that's how you end up. You know floating ideas: leg, we're gonna, have a capital gains tax cut as a response to the crisis or we're gonna have a payroll taxes which ok, if you have a range of responses, maybe that's part of it, but you ve got forty meant million people aren't on a payroll anymore. That's not gonna do a whole heck of a lot of good. So I just don't see that there is any Maybe he has the ideology, but doesn't really matter if you're not going to push for if you're now and you see who's organised in the town, because immediately once this crisis hit immediately the first, truly multi trillion dollar bill gets pass very very quickly with awe
all the goodies for big business, the stuff that was custom written? Now we got there goodies. There was a massive tax break for real estate developers that they tried to get into the corporate bail out of at all ready to go like those are the forces that are all complete Lee, organised, locked and loaded and ready to go in a crime, this, and so they basically one I mean they rolled everyone. They tied the little but a paltry small business and workers stuff to the massive corporate peace and held the workers and small businesses hostage. And so, if you vote down vote for it, then Europe voting against workers and it was all ready to go like that, and that is what you are overcoming in the town that sort of by partisan ninety eight o ninety they voted for it all voted for it. I think, wouldn't you Talkin bout Trump in his history of understanding trade and in business. Visions. I think it's all started benefited him. That's. Why was concentrating on them and I think now you're dealing with him spread so thin, because now here's the deal,
the environment is to deal with international politics and so much and that's why you you catch him and I think what you said to that is the lives of the id. I mean, I think, that's very true and he's always in the moment. Right he's famously said: it just lives off of his instincts, trust his instinct, which is great, but he had preparation when he was dealing with those things before we talk mothers. Before I was present. That's. Why had a deeper understanding of them because they meant something to help you, but now you dealing with the entire broad spectrum of duties are being there resident- and these says shit like inject people, Lysol sick dogs on protesters. He say nothing, things right is really the Haiti. The strong man right he's always been strongly. He's always been the you're fired guy and he still planet yet hype. Guess so he's that guy now, but he's that guy with global thermonuclear consequences, and so that even more to the point on that, which is that, when you don't have this is this is another
kind of establishment. Always wins point is that when you don't have to firm beliefs because I trade immigration or two things are like hundreds of billions of dollars behind the current the liberal trade, an immigration policy that we have right now in this country. When you Don't have that are very well formed ideology around how it should be like I'm using on the environment, are or anything else that is how, when because stat status quo, also continues in DC unless you make them very concerted effort of like no. You are not doing this anymore and I am appointing your boss in your boss. His boss, in your boss, is boss boss boss. In order to make sure that you don't actually do that, that's that's! Actually what the hardest we to fight back as you actually need a go here, ideology on every single one of these things, but more important, though understand how government works, and I think that so many people don't seem to grasp that not just like putting a guy in the oval office like look by the time. Its reach, the oval office? It's so fucked right that ten
levels down, they would have made the decision, so that's the power Right, like you, gotta make sure that your what you want is being reflected An layers down in the bureau Christine you look at the way like Russia, gate and also some. And you can just see like how arrogant some of the people within the bureaucracy behave just blatantly your disregard reading will of a president or blatantly just thinking easier, legitimate turn a diligent Amazon him, and from that perspective, that's fuckin, scary, because they're, not even accountable to the person that we all voted for. That is what what I like why you why conservatives have to care more about government that something like one of my pet put causes is look like we are living in a society where the culture is against you, we are living in a society where you know culturally, the commanding heights of american culture and you're living in a society where you don't have real power there and and you're also living society. We have corporate Amerika. Look at these protests right now. Amazon supports the protests right like Amazon,
where's, the protests Citibank see. Oh, it's creates of the people. With the most accumulated capital in America. Are else on of this protest? Why because, in my view they use I d Did he politics and Rachel politics? They want to split the country along those lines. Every single data talking about identity, politics and having debate bout race between non time. You really want to split the country along the lines. I think they just want support for their company. So in this big did it's a good Peoria, it's exactly as the brand of and here's the thing is, and this goes back to the coalitions of the parties right. So the democratic party caters largely to these. Like white affluent women, basically is like the the base that they surely right. I know them very closely humiliating with our icy job I go to the jungle may fall prey, and so you
for those for people who are more or less doing well, as things are right, they have got their health insurance. They ve got a job where their treated like a human being with humanity. They can get their breeds, they can get whatever they want on demand right there. Way of of virtues signalling is on identity issues and if you all, Lincoln Fine, the conversation on policing to leg. Let's deal with this: let's, let's have more body cameras like if you keep it in that lane, that's very comfortable for that right. If you have a broader conversation about a society that you know has decimated. Unions has decimated working class power about who has power in the society and while it that's more of a threat to them. So yes for corporate brands, it's very comfortable to have like, let's have a diversity initiative, its less comfortable to say
no was actually value. The worth of everyone, and let's actually have a different set of power, was actually not have corporations able to give a lemon and limited money via our politicians and then be able to go work on your boards, etc, etc. Like that's a very non threatening conversation, that's how you end up with was a bank of America sponsored The movement continues. Yes, le Black lives matter lies now living around ten years with the re MC catheters prominent activists to base Nickel is another reason why Amazon would support this protest, that this is kind of the death of retail means is one of the final nail in the coffin of Israel to think about investing your money and a brick and mortar store with a glass window. After all, this horse shit. Look, I won't site who told me this was a very prominent person in the field of economics and was like my concern, is theory- is that Jeff Baisers wants ten to fifteen percent unemployment and what's the best job in the world, Joe in rural place, Amazon, where our seas
drop enough. Those bricks whose better deliverance at an amateur varying but Amazon, prime delivering palates you suits. You should be more cynical because that I mean look. How else do we get to a point where, like the shell gas company sponsors, sixteen nineteen project event with Nicole Hannah Jones are, with that, so the sixteen nineteen project, man with Israel, rabbit also This is why this is the New York Times. But the thing is sixteen nineteen projects the year that the first slaves were brought to America and it was reforming the way that we talk about race and slavery, American, so that the very first say which she wrote, which is very controversial as when she claimed that there Reason for the American Revolution was because people wanted to keep their slaves, not because of your control from England. All that what happened is that a bunch of very prominent historians are american rivals in the civil war and much more pan the essay. They said this thing these be corrected. They corrected it even then,
she still one the Pulitzer Prize for journalists or for commentary. I want to say for that specific S, aid which was with which was there and they partnered. I think it was with the poets- are centre in order to rate, curriculum that schools are now using to teach now. This was attacked the sixty nineteen project, not at first by concern as of course, service were pissed off, it was attacked by the internet. World socialist website by Trotskyite by marxist and social and the reason why is because they saw for what I see it, which is that The cynical attempt in or to say America is an irredeemably racist nation that dad the only single and most pressing problem that we have in our society and if you hold that frame, then you don't ask questions about corporate power in America. You'd ask questions even of leaders, a friend of our shows that Johnny had a fantastic appearance on our show. Real encourages everybody to go watch it where he talks about. If you look at the black community in America,
which is what had the most pressing impact on their life economically destroyed so much of their livelihood. It was the foreclosures under rock Obama and it was the wipe out of black homeownership and black wealth that that these sixteen nineteen project and the framework of politics with that original sin, which of course is the original sin, is the be all and For why we are where we are today absolves current. Political leaders and recent political leaders, like Barack Obama himself or like leader, in the city of Atlanta or leaders in the city of Baltimore and that it absolves public policy which is non racial and so when I say that why does shale gas company feel comfortable, sponsor an event in which the main messages that core is their America's irredeemably racist nation, because they that is one more event which is being talked about in the political psych iced by the cultural elite which is not talking about there own power in the market place, and if you look at who what is the the
a dominant control in your life in America. It is about capital, it's not about race. It's about class class, but class disproportionately affects people of color in a man. Russia, and so the way I look at it is that identity politics is so cynically grafted on by the billionaire in the car, were classed as a reason are all super woke and because they want it to be this way so that we don't talk about air power in our society, and I think this of bare sent, like the waiters all happened is kind of a crazy because it started out in the sociology departments, apartments and the nineteenth. Having these all of these crazy out these from the post and the sixties era. They were united in these sociology apartments. Sorted cranking out all these absolutely crazy papers around you feminism and plan. I Danny Politics, Rachel Politics, all that and then what happened is. Is that corporate Amerika other cultural eat. First, while we're being indoctrinate in the university system, there are going to go
work in places like Mackenzie and others in they brought their racial politics their identity politics with them, but that there had to be recognition from the top for people like movements active Goldman Sachs if the pressure on them is to stop the way that they trade derivatives or to put a blackberry, and on their board. While they continue just you know, do the derivative training can choose that every single time rise, want to direct the conversation in that direction, absolves and am for the sins both towards economically disenfranchise in America, but it's all very cynical tool, which is that. Why is that you see all these corporations schoolgirl. Tweet our black lives, our instagram black out all that stuff Why is it that you see like night? You know Nike is the great irony that Nike, you know, went and did the whole college catholic thing like add campaign and they still got all their shit looted in this.
In this much we gotta go right, I mean I think that is that's the perfect example of they try to cynically use identity, politics in America, split people apart to protect their power and if we start to understand that is a lot more about class in America than it is about raise. I'm not saying that there is not real problems in America racism, that so all of this, but that, if you focus he's class issues its the best way to help people to people were disenfranchised were disproportionately people of color, but to help Everybody that's a much more. I just don't know how we can live in a multifaceted, multi, faceted nation like this, which is economically heterogeneous, ethnically people. So many people front, ethnicity, so many people of different religions? Someone coming, I am the Son of indian immigrants. I feel fully and completely America that's an amazing thing, but did just happen. Is that product of a result of very specific political so there, we made over time and its move
towards that that we needed to go towards him. That's what! But by doing so what you ve talked about many times about economic, not just distribution, but about the path who has powered society working class or not, which is the corporate Amerika. I can use the identity politics in order to make sure the working class doesnt contain power, and so you can't separate class and raised because it's not an accident, of course, that black and brown people are disproportionately the lower in common poor and working class in society at midnight. I see it much more simply serve like what you are saying. No, it's its virtues is like brand of branding exercise. Rachel and there's this whole idea, I we think it's hilarious on the right of flag, Facebook and twitter progressive or their liberal companies or Mozilla, the liberal, commend like what are you talking about Amazon trees to workers like shit they bust? You like this is not a left company right, but because they use this, or
branding tools and tweet out black lives matter which is no threat to them and in fact, as your pointing out may very much benefit their bottom line. All do it lay there, sir, if they get all the benefits of being for progress and being for this rising coalition in America without actually having to do anything, that's gonna benefit their bottom line listen. We just did three hours just flew by what I really enjoyed it. They were really a priest you guys, are really really appreciate your perspective. I really appreciate the fact that, you guys are you're, putting out your honest, informed opinions, and it really helps. We believe me that way too lazy to look the shit up on their own, and I have this not interested that sorry, that's our job. It is your job and your great added awesome, and I love the fact that you disagree, but you do so elegantly, respectfully and new. You give you cut
All the nonsense, that's on most of these political shows us. This is so much nonsense and I think the world sick of it- think. That's one of the reasons why you guys are gaining in popularity. Thank Asia may make a lot seriously. The humming we found. I welcome here's a so called like I've been listening to you for you for years. I started buying elk meat because, if so, I have a friend has a lot of problems. I Botswana forcing Matic Coffee in office. Thank you for everything, Joe. You created the space for people like. In our politics and for us to thrive, We can't ever underestimate that. I think that's why you are so poppy and you ve you ve really in entered the medium for a new discussion, is a revolutionary asian media and has never been more exciting times are complete accident. I have no idea how stumble on to us just keep doing it, but
guys very valuable. I appreciate very much. Thank you. Thank you. Tell people know how to get hold of you on social media gas so, I back the hill and our show is rising, and then I'm on Twitter at Crystal Ball. Instagram act crystal ball in that's crystal with a k by the way and go that's all the hill you can also so at E Sawyer S. Asia are on Twitter same on Instagram also you can go to rising that substantial commerce have a list of all the links, everything in no danger of beautiful. Thank you. Thank you giant shall, by everybody you friends, for tune to the show, and thank you too flabby are visit lady, are dot com, Slash, Rogan and use a special J r e offer to surprise you're dead, with a bottle of whistle pig piggy back right. It's fantastic whiskey,
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Transcript generated on 2020-06-04.