« The Joe Rogan Experience

#1565 - Gary Laderman

2020-11-17 | 🔗
Gary Laderman is a professor of American religious history and cultures At Emory University. He teaches and writes about death and dying, religion and sexuality, and sacred drugs. His most recent book is Don't Think About Death: A Memoir on Mortality.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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once till it really what you do well for work yeah i am i teach at emory university so professor i've been there for about twenty five years and i am i also right could write some some books in them teach a variety of glasses but you study like whatever of your study is some of it is on f and some of it is on drugs that is correct was there to very heavy subjects that may be the heaviest will the other course i teaches religion and sexuality so a minute that's that's another really everywhere you look like a guy who would study both death and drugs so this is the pandemic hair i wouldn't really i'm usually are much much more you know well i'm not really doing this to do and as one of my students told me i should do
i came in here i'm telling you man once you once you do it it's so freeing not having to go to a barbershop or a hairdresser well it's weird i feel really free without this hair well i turned the hair it's the subjects that you ve got it out you get involved in well with when we talk about drugs like you you studied all sorts of psychedelic drugs but also common drugs like like coffee like we were talking about before i was telling you before that i make some ridiculous french press coffee with far too much coffee and it has become a bit of a problem lately well but it's probably keeping you healthy and keep in hell i don't know if it is at the end of the day i'm really tired and i'm not usually really tired and i think it's because i've been on speed all day entire you out that's for sure yeah
but yeah me my interest in and studying the connection between religion and drugs i'm in a department of religion at emory really spans the spectrum so i'm interested yeah for sure and psychedelics but also is you're saying in the more ordinary psychoactive drugs that bring order to our lives and you know allow us to tap into our true identity maintained some semblance of stability in our lives you know things that religion often can do it sir subject of religion and drugs is its really fast named to me but it's something i never even really considered until ten fifteen years ago and i was introduced to jack hair and he was to know is cannabis advocate recently deceased not not so recent anymore great guy but wrote was writing a book
about the connection between psychedelic particularly suicide and and religion and christianity and had some amazing collection of artwork that connected like ancient an our work with a lot of these dancing naked thick figures it libertarian ecstasies shrouded by this translucent mushroom there
though that's not uncommon there are a lot of theories out there that connect early christianity especially of two different kinds of fun loosen eugenic cycles psychedelic drugs of some form but i think this is the connections are much more widespread people have been using psychoactive substances for religious ritual for religious experience for forms of transcendence in an journey in all kinds of different cultural settings and and through his what got you into this subject well i've been interested in the topic of drugs for all for a while but i think what really you know led me to see this would be quite a fruitful topic
pursue in terms of research was i wrote a short little essay on lsd and religion talked about my own experience as a young man and talking about the ways in which when i had that experience in the late seventies and people more and more were you know pa enjoying psychedelic coming out of the decade of the sixties i've started to to see that they often use words like spiritual or mystical to describe their experiences and to talk about how their religious views are are being re oriented and i saw that in my own experience and wrote about that as a way to talk about what is probably the most significant
shift in religion in america and that's the rise of the nuns those who don't affiliate with any religion and who many you claim to be spiritual but not religious and and i want to tie that back to people's exe variances with psychedelic this alot of people that are in the nuns that i don't have any experience with psychedelic they just psychedelic they just seem to want to have like a deeper meaning to life you know and then they'll say i'm religious but i'm spiritual right in the lobby we're really annoyed when people talk like that yeah well can be annoying and
so you know i think as you say is very much becoming quite common yeah people to identify in that way and that's also about a very strong kind of negative understanding of traditional religion institutional religion and so on yeah i feel like for a lot of these people that don't have psychedelic experiences that our spiritual that sort of dismiss religion i die of i never want to tell people to do psychic dogs but i feel like if they did it relax a little with this idea that they really have an understanding of what happens when you die i think they will really let that go most people would right you'd go why didn't know this was real and this is around and has been around for thousands of years psychedelic and then you have these experiences that are so profound
ok maybe i'm just full of shit and i've been posing for his whole time right now right well i think again that some it's not just you who have these views what we are seeing is a lot of medical research around psychedelic also were pointing to the same thing decrease in fear of death people's sense of compassion and love you know really can blossom people's lives are door transformed in a lot of these more are controlled medical studies were gonna with these people we're taking i'm still a simon or india may but but the main focus of all that of courses is is the therapeutic benefits but you know my eyes were saying as is also it's all about spirituality him and those therapeutic benefits can't be separated out from
of spiritual sense of of that experience it gives me a little bit i hope that in this time of of great strife and struggle and especially in terms of the way human being there are dealing with each other you know that this is this is a time when people are also rediscovering psychedelic and record numbers and there looking for some sort of a way to make sense of this life because you know we're obviously in some strange transitional moment in history where our confidence in systems and government and and even education and for lee news and media is eroding at an unprecedented rate but it's also at the same time drugs are now legal in oregon you know like things are happening where people go you know what come on colorado's like mushrooms gotta do mushrooms and god bless taxes they
fuck you need all that shit right here and georgia to yeah from all these places at the whole world needs it well they need the option right in august the out the idea that human beings are somehow another preventing other human beings from having non lethal experiences that have proven to be incredibly transcend writing change people's lives for the better just on mass like a few to see the johns hopkins studies of the people that one cell aside and experience that they meet the majority of unlisted is the most profound experience there are no light unknown addictive yes i'm in a non lethal only fifty is like what you have to eat like two pounds over some rising rife and and we know that the stories of addiction and a lot of the dangers are so overblown but i think again this has to stop
moment as you're saying you that's why i feel i'm i'm onto something i think we are doing this book but i'm writing which is still gonna make the argument that drugs organs are really the sort of source of spiritual life in in america that's that's the future as well as the past and yet again you know though the influence of psychoactive substances in the americas pre columbus was pervasive and just a part of everyday life and as you say we ve for whatever historical reasons and changes that have happened in our society have lost touch with those resources of spiritual meaning yeah i'm religious life and m as you're saying i by anna and i believe a too we are
the moment when things are really transforming and drugs will be i think quite important in terms of how we come out on the other side i hate the word drugs it's just a blanket word it's so unfortunate that you know like heroin and opiates and meth is lumped in with psilocybin all under one blank well yeah you're not alone i mean i'm i'm intentional with drugs like to be provocative and try to confuse a lot of the categories that we use in thinking about some of these things that are so central in our lives and so potent
especially in terms of our religious lives so yeah there's an theo djinns psychedelic sin and you know obviously all different kinds of other kinds of looking substances that we use that term have an effect in and for me that in some cases and many cases have religious meanings and connections have you ever experiment did with hollow tropic breathing or any of the non psychedelic methods of achieving these certain states of consciousness no
i mean no but i think there are important as well as people is achieving a mystical state through non psychedelic means that this is another avenue in thinking about the importance of those mystical states and and how people get there but also i would say as you said it's what tar the results were kind of transformations are are made and people's lives and i think what we think is whether its psychedelic induced experience or or non psychedelic it's there are lots of similarities ya mean lotta people get it get there through near death experience there's a lot of people well this is another thing where the mind is capable of producing psychedelic compounds and in near death experiences although its very difficult measure
where because you actually have to open up someone's brain while there in the middle of a near death experience which is probably not the healthiest thing for someone almost died that's as far as we know that the best way to measure it now but these people who experience the near death moments have these incredible found visions and many people think that what's happening is some sort of endogenous dump of psychedelic chemicals we know the brain is capable of making the most potent once i in terms like you know what happens and how they do it it's still a bit of a mystery to try to solve the connections fascinated and and i must mention you may know i teacher
death and dying courses yell and so near death experiences are or are pretty much of an important part of that class and the kinds of of research and findings that talks are beginning to appear in terms of looking at those connections are fascinating and hi into this question of of what is our relationship to death how do we understand you know the reality of death in our lives and and you know what what are our thoughts about the afterlife for if there is one that gets tied into rely on how people respond to this research you know how they are engaged with it and now they are compelled by it it there's a lot of folks that apparently can reach like some pretty intense states of consciousness through yoga through different styles of yoga different styles of breathing but what this really funny quote by turns mckenna where the buddha met this monk
who were who said i practice a city of levitation for the last twenty years and have achieved the ability to walk on water and the buddha says the fairies only a nickel yeah right fixedly worry you can you can really meditate alone in darkness forever or you can just take mushrooms you get their non our right well think for many of us would take that third the quick rout young but again there are like with the monk or people who meditate you know how kinds of important will set and setting thinking about you know what is the context in which this is taking place and that's critical giving it push back about the connection between us like dogs and religion has anybody ever like challenged you unanswered debated you on it
i mean i teach a meme residents don't and sometimes they challenge but i know i mean i ride not directly and i don't really give a shit you know i mean i'm at that stage my career i'm i'm i'm convinced about the again the sort of great research possibilities and thinking across the board on about the connection between drugs and religion now when you you're teaching these classes and i'm assuming that for a lot of these cases the first time your exposing them to these ideas the absolutely because there are many of them don't know what the study of religion is right now that we have a pretty nice diverse mix of of students in terms of their background but most don't have a religion course other than something they ve done and there in catholic school or they studied the bible in some
form but now they ve never seen anything like me it's funny you that's it that's a heavy responsibility i would imagine took as your introducing to these kids this these ideas that have a really that the potential for a very profound impact on the rest of their lives and that some i've been something of worried about my entire career you know i am actually care quite a bit about how these ideas are transmitted and received and as we said a lot of them are quite sensitive the topics that i'm trying to teach by two them it's an essential part i think of of of being a young adult learning how to
not just think for yourself but to sew to reimagine the world and try to understand some of the forces that are at work and in your life and what's going to be coming in in terms of your feet career and i try to make religion relevant now in those terms but i also as to say to them you know me my own say this before i had tenure but my goal i tell them the straight out as to confuse the hell out of them and what they think is religion is not the only game in town and so
i'm i'm very up front about the sort of being an intellectual exercise wire students taking my death and dying class well i don't want to know i wanted to be purely academic for them to encounter of different understandings of death death different death rituals different cultures and then shake him up but not necessarily you know what kind of term them away from what they ve been taught the end result may kind of reinforce their own sort of cultural background and outlook but but i'm i'm i'm for myself i can very gratifying and pin the work that i do if you could call at work and you know i got a great response from students and and i'm just you know really pleased that i'm able to be a part of that edge
no process because not to go on that yemen because my classes are often not like their other classes which are generally political i am sorry economics or biology and and i want to be able to reflect and think about some of these deep things that sooner or later you know are gonna vitamins but yeah i call you describe it to that it's not the only game in town load the way i'd try to describe people's like i'm not not a religious person but i am not opposed to it and probably was when i was younger but i think i was this arrogant and i think that the best way to look at religion is it's not the whole thing ship but you shouldn't throw it out i think it's a piece i think it's a piece of something that's a giant puzzle and the idea of throwing out i don't think that's the way to do it i think i think those people
in the problem obviously stir translations translations a giant issue when you taking something from ancient hebrew near translating it to latin and greek and aromatic and always differently doesn't psych lot is probably the lost in terms of the way they express like we have read rush into english there's a lot of like russian people i follow on twitter and i get a huge kick at or excuse me interim and i get a huge kick out oppressing the translate button like to try to break down the way they communicate to now when you doing like super ancient languages that we use anymore it's ancient hebrew like who knows how accurate and what if the the intent is clearly expressed through an english translation right probably not well along its loss the airlock gets invented author also suggests these ideas have been passed
through thousands and thousands of years and i feel like if you could just not be too literal with it and just listen to what these people are saying what they were trying to get across obviously this some awful shit in the bible in particular and many regions in terms of condoning slavery treating women as second class citizens are so there's a lot that's probably just some cultural artifact of the time where embedded their own beliefs and how human being should act with each other and then in an attributed that god right but can get past that and just not take it you know upon intended as gospel in and just these people are trying to lead down their experiences and the lessons that they ve learned in and some sort of a way to live your life book right right
and i am in the upcoming whereby agree with you from my point of view too much liberalism in always really counter productive that not destructive as societies change over time so you know the act of interpretation is very much obviously apart of of the study of religion and looking at how religions change transform for me i'll just i'll say i'm so not interested in christianity or judaism or buddhism or islam you know the conventional containers of what we think are the world's religions are for you know very problematic to say the least but my my interested my interest is more in the sort of intersections of religion and culture where people might not recognise their being religious even though i would try to make the argument that they are also
well i mean loves i would by by britain buckled sacred matters that looks at these different kind of arenas where where religious life can be found in cultural forms of activity so like celebrity worship i would call a religious culture that has systems of meaning different kinds of rituals possibilities for discovering your true self all kind of value system that can be tied up that's interesting celebrity worship as a form of religion i always thought of his just hijacking the human reward system because if we lived in a tribe of people small tribe and there was one great leader the battle scarred leader has seen it on can give us the information and he was the one talking we would lessen the that would be a person of great importance and we all got it
i don't listen but when you see brad pitt in the movie screen and his face is thirty feet high and this music playing when he talks in the team of writers of carefully constructed all of his words in this acceptance and you know it just like it so moving inspiring and then we see in real life oh my god it's really you let me why has really done anything other than pretend rocketing enemies villefort well i mean great entertainer but must keep given us a wonderful distractions but it's not that he's let us through battle rise not that he's is figured out how to find the food in the water this is not what it is but in our own jack human reward system we treat him as though he is the greatly or even someone like oprah and it was more clearly you know in that sort of some strange middle ground
began a liberty and spiritual leader of some kind so you know it obviously it's gonna vary depending on what celebrity you're talking about but they are not just in terms of projections our imagination where we invest them you know our energies yeah celebrities bag but the ganum i'd like to talk about other things of you now as well that with politics or consumer culture or things around medicine that their release quality ends that don't have to do with the bible or with mohamed or something riders religious qualities in that there's these very rigid ideologies that are treated like religions they have to fly
follow and is also signs that people will hold up that their complying and there along with this ideology one of em when i talk about a lot of people taking photos with masks on on twitter for their their profile picture right i don't know what you know i'm right right we all know aidan yeah well maintained that again messaging and think about a little bizarre used you no gap its it's bizarre many cities patterns or to repeated over and over again right well social media too about the future of of religion and in terms of how it transforms and ensure moves forward is an unimportant kind of sight for religious activity in investments and in where were really gonna see the action what's happening on instagram twitter and so on yeah so when you say really like religion that these things
fall into sort of religious behaviors or religious ideas you're not meaning like as handed down from a higher power your meaning as in people fall lan with the same sort of compliant behaviour and patterns and not necessarily mean that it is not as not all just sort of compliance and eyes one aspect ride or conformity or see out it's it's it's just meaning making its how we try to live our lives in ways that dumb can carry sir on when we have to confront suffering and death in and as well as you know the issues around health em what are the sources that are available to people and you know as ives i said in my class many times i think popular culture is much more of an important kind of teacher about religious ideas and values than in others
cole preacher hausa because people pay more attention to absolutely and because their more swayed by now because it has more of an impact and residence so it's so does a dangerous way to sway things coming from someone is involved and distributing popular culture because there is so little thought put into the actual impact of of what it is and so much thought putting into a just what pops right would gets people depend engine right well and money talks and money sacred you know what you want some more of your sacred and our society than making some money and that's sad right now getting so there too we can talk about other religious qualities do capitalism well you know there have been a number of scholars who written on that top can and made those connection so again you're the action is taken place in the church has taken place and
music festivals burning man yeah yeah this is where again or economic and i'm not trying to come over generalised but i think very much for especially younger people but baby boomers as well where where that at not the murders it do i get my spiritual uses you know there are churches now that incorporating suicide and into their rituals i think one particular in oregon city of fine that the church and or again that is doing one mile organs spokesperson today well it's a big big news and for yeah we're all gonna be watching them well the idea is that that's what it used to be all about enough you go back to its very controversial book but john
marco allow grows the sacred mushroom and the cross is all about consumption of psychedelic mushrooms and that he believes that that was really what the bible was about was about hiding these stories from the romans when they were captured lots theories that even with judaism to moses you know there's just all kinds of ways people have tried to make the connection there are legally offering suicide mushroom therapy through ceremony but look there's manner that that's what is the name of this place sacred heart medicine the u s is that the name of the church no yeah oregon state nonprofit domestic gotta go nonprofit fuel cell mushrooms and not get locked out well that's right donated solidarity charity kids out of poverty
and there are we'd churches too that the outcome starting their crucial arza yeah cannabis and religion also beyond again just psychedelic yeah and and and that's just sort of the surface my senses theirs big underground i know there's one here in austin because i did some research here around her i do my research made before the pandemic i was able to get down do some research around and talk to people who yet who are running these kinds of rum psychedelic religious communities or sacred plants yeah different communities that are cropping up washington dc right they just also criminalize yes of assignment yeah and there too i was a thriving underground so these are i think we're going to achieve that underground these subcultures really begin to surface
and i think so with a war on drugs now basically almost over how are we gonna think about housing and respond to them the war on drugs almost over what a crazy war and drugs one well well i may be famous alot let me have it like my whole life has been lived under the war on drugs deanna mean yeah how will these these fifty eight yeah yeah i'm so it's some i missed out it's like all the subtle that is good changing unlike gum i wonder what is our society gonna be like to be around late fifties early six before everything was illegal when people just freaking out when you know after all ned synthesized lsd and when you know basically all the scheduling compounds were free and legal i mean free to consume you
yet a wonder they went in there was illegals marijuana kind hilarious boggles the mind doubts it's full of hypocrisy but that was a crazy time on and if you saw that great on documentary wormwood now by air morris i've heard of it though now it's crazy about again the sort of fifties and alex and see i and all our yeah so it that's a very rich part of the history that some pre timothy leary that rock hudson was on this the psychiatrists couch
the reality in experimental and what was that doing it again the notion was miracle drug medicine down help people with their depression in all of that and again what we don't know although were beginning to see this more and more in some of this research is what are the religious implications in a person's life effectively trip yeah there's a great book that i have mentioned many times and spoke to us because they had the guest on the author on rather tommo neo wrote a book called chaos and it's about the manson family and he was writing a book on the man's unfair excuse me he was writing an article twenty years ago on the mass and family interests must be real quick article writing it and then in the middle of his research running running the bark he started finding all these problems and where it inconsistent sees weird connections
twenty years later it finishes this book and it's all about the cia and lsd and the man in family charles maintenance particular was involved with cia experiments with lsd on per lsd with prisoners and that most likely dosing him up when he was in jail and then giving access to lsd and the he's psychological techniques that he whose down the family when was released and then also all this evidence that every time they would arrest him even though is on parole they would let him go because a cia was encouraging his youth develop d is promoting it to the family and they are committing crimes and the whole idea was to discredit the anti war movement and to disrupt the civil rights movement there's a lot of shit involved with the cia and lsd and who were running a they were
a clinic a free clinic in hate ash bury until for fifty years until three months after this book released and then mysteriously our work is done that's over they closed down right but there's amazing connections that tom only makes sense book to jolly well tools in the cia was a part of their lsd programme to jack ruby for some of the year oh my god it's it's amazing he's thomas great in his book is i can't recommended another all took him it's a mine blower with easy as you get into the book you like what the fuck does admit take care leslie researched over twenty years it was this man's life and they exceed ryan alone amounts than they really out of it nor are the earlier for the kind of work that is being shore and think of lsd as something that makes you go crazy and want a murder people and kill people they change
idea what a hippie was right because of this psychological technique city learned when he was in jail and all the mind control experiments and he learned and the way they did it he would it pretend to take ass it and he would give it acid to the family and then he would mean fuck them and then have them go on commit murder and tell them that they were freeing people and well while no no doubt meanwhile times absolutely and mounted on whether there was a lot of interest were sure and among the cia for what the potential four lsd yeah he also went over the operation midnight climax which is a part of empty ultra do you know about that the operation midnight i'm acts they ran harasses therein brothels in san francisco and a couple of the cities and they would have to a mirrors and they would have the prostitutes dose up these johns with lsd in there
they had no idea and then they would have sex and they would watch them and observe them and swim figures area where there is giving people lsd like america since yesterday by rising prices is a law enforcement agency ethnic religious are well you know i mean why don't we know yeah exactly what don't we now well with only found this out a sort of accidentally through research into one of these files that had been left behind and freedom of information act knife right well that's how people or be able to get access to some other yes some then formation but the problem is for so long people have had this idea as lsd equal
lose your mind go crazy jump off buildings rhino well and then than that also get some transferred over to cannabis and another drugs as the war on gas really picks up with nixon and it does helped his demonize yes groups of people all the rules the sad thing too is in putting these things and schedule one we really will missed out on research that would be very helpful for people that do have adversary actions does oughta be with adverse reactions to suicide i've been to cannabis too lsd and we don't know why right particularly people that have us gets a frantic breaks milan cannabis is very common not very calmly but it might be like you know one out of a hundred right crazy like that right right right it's not huge but until now that we really should be concerned and we don't know what the fuck is going on because they ve kept people from doing research right well
who knows if that is going to change yards already starting to change quite dramatically and with the results that are coming out of some of these experiments and research studies that are going on i thing you know is convincing and when you're helping you know of war veterans yeah ptsd he our men coming come on embryo may seem to be particularly help right well that's right i know do in some some of those studies at emory but on a lot of places again this is what is being referred to as the mainstreaming of psychic alex enough they're gonna be more and more a part of our resources
firms of where to go yeah mild dose of empty a may for the whole world might fix everything that whilst have real milder where everybody together three two one gov we'd all just like i'm sorry unless love what are we doing the amazing i've only done at once it was incredibly now found but the next day i can read you're pretty brought out hunting oh so dumb and then to go on stage of terrible did stand up the next night those i just couldn't get it together rain was so worn out right i was going to ask you i think i think i saw that your tour was called sacred clown yeah a lump of the sacred as my i like to a kind of go after that but as i like that title and so i was curious how you came up about its lakota term of yoga sacred clown lakota has had
term for a very important part of their culture which has some who mocks all the things that are deemed sacred in important right on evolve finds holes in all of these dogmatic idea yeah well that's over i mean again that's why religion can do or die what i also sake notions of the sacred can really you no help you to see what's really going on in the world i would call did hey yoko but it seems like thou to caused more problems than first of all people what the fuck does that mean and then second while all people like you're culturally appropriating which is therefore still not only that but what really you like say better have a mean certainly yeah terms it's more avoiding yeah yeah but but i get to hear so i'm gonna call once i get again right even more important now
after the vote you really need to make fun of shit absolutely because people are more on edge and then also on four gently or fortunately people have embedded themselves so deeply into social media that they believe this rule bizarre way of communicating which forms these echo chambers and these really non empathetic ways of expressing your disdain or anger hate or disagreement with people this is common standards it's the most non psychedelic thing right the way but communicate on twitter is like that bunch a mental patients thrones yet at each other the stand and let you ve gone off of twitter up social media well i'm on twitter but i dont use a red other people stuff sometimes just to go
what is going on but if someone's trying to get my attention good luck good luck right i'll read anything about me but i don't read anything about me in general the despair because is to ram is basically just interest giant distraction for me right fight fund a lotta area edges and they added but i agree you know i think that this social media is is one of the more powerful forces and in the changes that we are seeing here and the political divisions clearly or other one of the consequences of of how imbedded in these forms have become and our lives it's almost like let legates album i mean it has all been planned out but it's almost like it has been in order to really deteriorate our confidence and all these structures and systems if he if you thought about what what would be the perfect waited here it while you have a guy's clearly on qualified for the job who is famous for just
being an asshole on time le vision firing people and being like a bombast dig sort of our braggadocio rich guy with his name on giant buildings and you're fired fuck you and grabbed by the pussy and then you have that big that i'd be the press why then have everybody live we gonna get him out of here the problem here is the problem and then think they're gonna realise once he is out none are now he's not the problem is he's just a problem right the problem as human beings right and the problem is the political system is just deeply embedded with corruption and you going to realize that with this next guy who's supposed to be your savior it's not going to work out well to bring it back to you earlier point i think we all some empty and yeah everybody everybody micro does on mushrooms for sure
well well sir gawaine dare i think we're heading in that direction by our side i believe in the young people yeah i do i do to well that's why this part cas works you know because i think of you can't of the systems that are in place that are bullshitting people and then their out streets talking their friends and communicating in a totally different witnessing in the media and the like but what this isn't represent me right this is not how i think and feel and my experiences with life and with particularly if they had any psychedelic experiences does these aren't represent why are they represented right when i know they're so common in another so profound and another meant so much to me and my friends why why when i see this right so then they find things like this on the internet and they go ok this i'm not crazy right there's other people out
they're so right and then the other side of that would be the notion that that we really have lost any sense of of powerful authority structure you sort of cultural authorities that really can unite people are kind of mouth people understand the importance of common cause of some kind and yeah and you know that sub again partly to bring back to religion has to do with the conflict around them the church and christianity especially in american politics that is being diminished i like to write about sort of the d christianization ours as the dominant sort of religious structure begins to erode and begin to see again spiritual but not religious and other kinds of challenges
that are coming from different communities are different kinds of spiritual experiences to you know that the authority structures that are in society that is part of that the context of all of this year where a lot of these battles are going on in people don't know where to turn her wondering where am i represented in all this and it's not coming from religion or the church urgent political leaders republicans are democrats so it all become self focused in or out about self promotion gas alpha identity becomes the main the uno of force in our lives i think for too many people yeah and hence the celebrity and then the chasing celebrity right as becomes the ultimate you know have all of this this stupid gamewell plan right
well for me as someone who studies this i'll try not to be judge mental but i see again it says it's a religious system there's a religious cultural yeah in its now it's not just deserve interesting and legitimate in my mind is christianity i don't eat i wish there was a structure that was in place that mimic the positive aspects of church that didn't contain the dogmatic religious ideas that alot of people farm problematic in alike i think there's something great about the whole community aspect of church in all my friends do good church i have a lot of friends at a christian there really good people there really get people like admirable people and i think one of the things that's very admirable about that
pursuit of christianity is this community reinforcing aspect of it right in oh they get there together with the members of the cap everybody's real friendly they know that they're going to sit there and they're going to submit to this experience and they're gonna in a red passages and economic here the sermon and they're gonna there are going to be together again addressed nice they gonna behave well and they're gonna feel good about the people that they live near and there sir by now we're missing that there's so many people i'm friends with that live in cities that don't know the person who lives in the apartment extorted them they ve been every ten years and they did they don't know anybody in their bill everybody monies tell me he lives in a building a thousand people does know em that's crazy well such uglier monitoring the woman's it's a we're way for humans to live and i think people feel particularly lost when
i don't have a real sense of community say as stanhope comedian one is that we all have in common particularly folks that we're we're and out of the colony store was that there was a family aspect to it there is a real community there and we are very supportive of each other and embracing physically embrace people see people that the air with every hugs and so for love he's comics or single i live alone maybe not in other neighbours like that was the place where they can go to that was church now rather
so what i mean i think that's a beautiful young right on because you could see in that community of comedians something sacred yard and thing religious the das meaning fallen that dumb that this profound in some ways and and as we said in the community aspect but also new helping people in terms of their own understanding self understanding yeah and that's people turn to different kinds of communities and that's part of the modern world to that that community feeling sir of collective togetherness can can be found in a number of different settings certainly the church and the congregation is one but rock concerts or the comedy clubs rifle dead grateful that i mean the grateful dance the whole thing was acid right well
my man like me and ass if we were going to turn to that next next week our you know how we would we end the course with psychedelic and creativity stu right that's their deal to write a lot of people drop ass it then listen to that sort of jam music and well my friends of debt yes certainly nympho my friends who have gone to a lot of dead shows say you don't really know the dead until you list dumont ass right right music design for ass well that's life that that's something you can find no other musical blacks as well that connection mean that's the about damosel trip to mean in the echoes of the ever listened to south amerika negroes those satin when you hear those songs on psychedelic did the image is due ants to those songs like there that there exist
together like a hand in glove perfectly it's amazing well i like you i like the connection between music and drugs and religion so you can also look at the parodi church and listen to some of the music that comes from those ceremonies yeah very much a central part of the experience and and how people absorb receive it and make sense of i think we're way to comfortable with music we think of it
the site no big deal exactly and that's what i do my all my classes bringin music so when the death class at the beginning of the semester i tell students i want you to be listening just in terms of the music that you listen to day to day if you can identify the theme of death and of course the when they hear that at first they think i'm nuts and weighed up out of my mind and they soon realise its everywhere and so you i mean i know that aspect of my classes can really be powerful because again we don't we
music for granted but it's so central to our lives and again i think you can have more of an impact than just oh isn't this fun to listen to tat shape our consciousness and our communities and so so i do that in the sex sexuality class and doing it in the drugs class and its great for students due to be able to see that is data what are you open up with what sovereignty over up with when you for which one for death oyster call i fear the reaper they learn as they like even though they never heard of it they never heard of blue eye circa fees fuckin can out two kids today you have you not hear of that soil a main again there their parents may it listen to it sometimes i get that but oh man there's just a lot of things that can play be played across different m generous zones
there's a few recordings that are still available of the lakota doing the ghost dance and out of politeness yeah my american religious history men there to music is the main thread where we learned about religious coming that is dad is one of the saddest songs in the history of the world because that that's these people that really are at the end me this very few genocides there's diminish few right but there very few where there's almost nothing left of people that existed in in thriving numbers three hundred years ago but in native american communities its common it's like them common they like they're all gone in terms of like what the way they used to live versus now and that goes dances
them trying to conjure up the spirit of the past and reignite they're called turn bring back the old ways and get rid of the the white settlers and get rid of the armies and get rid of all the people that have destroyed their way of life and disease and all the things that happen to them literally the course of their life from you know there's people were born in eighteen fifty that were fit years old at the turn of the twentieth century that we're like what the fuck happened they were born they will they lived on the plains and life was as if it had been for hundreds if not thousands of years and then all sudden it was gone and so this goes dance was this attempt at risk needing their old culture at its it's it's eerie and sad and and it's it's it's so rare to have a natural recording of something that
was an attempt to stop genocide right right and from that period to is is really value invaluable to have as has again that's it it's beyond data gathering oh you this is about our memory and as you said is very evocative yeah when people listen to it and it does become unimportant a remnant of that of that movement and that experience but
the other music and am though ceremonies are incredible do you play that for your class yeah i don't know a negative the book i use this all chapter on the go stance against mooney in and really trying to dig into some of the historical forces that led to this as as a potential revitalization form of of of religious revival than in tragic let me ass a shack as he says something that disconnects of people from their past in ways that are difficult to me pain and to people and people are still suffering from the momentum that disconnection today in twenty two honey this massive amounts of strife and and huge problems in native american reservations because of them but still today now deliver its crimes
and still has as has been the case in native american history incredible signs of resilience of innovation of come in new forms of community that have really getting back at us with the casinos well that therefore is not ass i should say clearly i'm with child of immigrants and well i mean you know this is the real development of that kind of ironic in some ways now it is it is it is bizarre that getting wealthy off of this weird vice another addiction and others as gambling agenda is it do you think we had a great class diction have you been around gambling attics really i am i know i've been around a bunch of arms and drugs that's what i'm wondering unama god
i didn't i was going on in the brain to that's gonna be you know where you're gonna be seeing some some kinds of activities that will lead people to continue on the behaviour yeah it's for sure a pattern that people fall into like my grandmother was addicted to plan the numbers i remember she was always lose him and she was always like saying oh i was supposed to bet this one but that one there was the whole deal my grandmother battalion grandmother in new jersey you know the number we obviously this mob iran weird lothar for the neighbourhood but wasn't it tells you my twenties that a start playing pool then it was around real hard core gambling attics that would that on raindrops running down a window they would bet on anything and everything in their life revolved on getting like getting bets and winning and losing it was there
their whole there was there juice for their life was all gambling life source or some something the but also destructive in its way it was our overbearing but it's hard to say was destruct was deafening destructive in terms of their financial stability there always broke but boy there they were engaged and they would call it action that's what i would call it like but try to get some action like it was all about this thrill of possum we winning and possibly losing and you say that people are doing now when they play in the stock market they just doing the nice low version of it or if you're gambling on sport it's your certainly participating in it you know right and a lot of different kinds of addiction people have in short all about religion i mean about drugs why think religion maybe an addiction to winsome in some ways but i think so
and the or some people yeah you just again life force life juices what you got to keep giving yourself if you're gonna make but ya mean i'm curious to think about what what are the addictions in our society right you know too much shopping nor too much sex or drugs or the obvious one but we really stretch out that term to me you know and apply to all kinds of different or social media i think that a brand new addiction right that's then that wasn't that netflix documentary reserve assets leave interest on harris was actually here a couple weeks ago we asked about it in it some minutes i'm hoping that people recognise that that is not much different than all those other wonders whether its gambling or mass bayesian or whatever it is that europe addicted to is this i'm kind of pattern is this one is particularly compelling as its with you all the time
you know it's like gambling you have someone a gamble with brussels the casino or there has to be some way you could that goddamn phones was twenty four seven no doubt there well it becomes all consuming as you say yes and that can lead to all kinds of million ruin we're fine in a pattern all this right it's it's in humans like humans have weird sort of pitfalls that ways slip into we have weird we're behaviour patterns that weaken fall prey to absolutely a man i think that's probably part of just the make up of what it means to be human as we can get sidetracked and get so consumed by something that you lose sight of the rest of reality in some way and m yeah mainly by say that and the things that i study for sure people
best about death or sexuality or drugs or anything or anything at all yet but dumb but how we know we think about gambling in it and how that connects to sort of larger social issues and psychological kind of mental issues is important in order to make sure you not just kind of compartmentalizing the behaviour the out as part of all is part of a larger context and pattern that that's that are worth studying worth looking at how much how much of a benefit is there in explaining to people the way we fall into these patterns does much as there is exploring the patterns themselves like we we have these weird sort of vulnerabilities that are built into our system because were there's bennett
it's getting obsessed with certain things because those certain things can lead you to success as a hunt gather as fishermen some it's gonna help feed your family if you're your brain can completely lock on to the secret nature s way of succeed yet something right if you're a hunter gatherer and you know your feet her why give up i can't do this obviously huntings not for me he had started ass if you children go to cry it's gonna be horrible so there's is built in but that could be hijacked by roulette right well just so we're that thing come on i gotta get this i got gotta i gotta go that could be jack by games right can be hijacked by by many things that we find ourselves obsess right hijacked were also motivated by other kinds of inner dynamics and the main whether you want to talk about freud or some other primal instincts
work that dumb depending on the individual and the particular social setting therein you know and family background can can lead to these you know all or nothing pursuits but psychedelic eggs sort of illuminates that for you psychedelic one of the only things that i've found the goes hey stupid what you're doing look with that is look at the causes as you like oh yeah why didn't i notice that why didn't i see that or you don't see it until you the psychedelic sort internal light on four right and when it does it's often the case that you don't need to go back right was like or at least i read that people you know it's not addictive but also in a once twice you know you get you get you certainly not need to do it every day right and if you want to have like i think people feel a little refresher course every year so not a bad thing
oh yeah we're that's all that's right i almost forgot recalibration resetting the system to waive i'd have described really profound psychedelic experiences precise pressing control or delete for your brain and for people dont know that means if you use a mac that's reboot windows computer when it crashes control or delete your computer reboots and you have a fresh desktop with one folder and that folders just labelled my old bullshit and then you have a choice by the choices do i open up my old bullshit start going to try to figure out life again through my memories or do i try to form a new view and risks this my old bullshit resist opening it up and that's where it gets tricky your ego will try to convince you like lesson man have once agreements you know how you know if i can relax buddy you know what's let's go play some fats or nothing wrong with that
let's go do this let's go do that and that next you know you fall right back into the traps at your avoiding right well there you go can be turkey and leading you astray or making you think it's real i feel comfortable with these old patterns right really familiar with even of those patents are failure like a lot people like fall off diets fall off the wagon drinking they do because they're comfortable with the feeling of failure and this the uncertainty of the unknown of the future with these new patterns that you're trying to establish is very confused them there is no doubt and its religious yeah value would describe it yeah and in a way and the falander was better what it does and i went just thought that whole metaphors like being born again or something like that third the germanic journey you know you are not the same yeah i'm back and you ve got some
to teach you now and that is not just i would say not necessarily just for the consumer yes like it i like or whatever the substances but it's it's also you know about connections to them i think an addendum sharing the knowledge yeah getting out there what what are you teaching in your sexuality classes that's different than what people would normally expect well i'm by one thing i tried to do was some be as a cross cultural as i can be so look at their sexuality and hindu ism in terms of china these religions terms of african religions so i try to really for the students
to expand their minds as much as possible to see the varieties of ways in which people understand their sexuality and and and so now that's that's where i start the class how long you been teaching this war this class yeah in such while another one post tenure but it's probably been about seven or eight years had to deal with how much did this is a really important question public as professor what is it like pre tenure and post tenure because it seems to be at night and day difference in terms of freedom and right eye replay that event but everyone does this not u everyone i guess that's a strange organization and alan and logic the higher education are opposed tenure think it's bullshit yeah achieving it protects
intellectual freedom now anyway i mean i'm missing there was a time in which we might make that argument but you know wealth has tenure when other professions good question it's not saying now it's like not the real world and on sitting is in some ways not good because then the it almost like you either the intellectual version of being born wealthy like you're here you have no worries and so you yo become spoilt well of irrational now well that's absolutely i you knows there there there are arguments that after some faculty catania they shut down or they really out as much research anymore and there isn't that dr right i mean it's a whole tears
system so you move you get tenure when you move from assistant to associate professor and then you know what you want to get too is full professor rat ripe and again that's the sort of that just a different place and hierarchy yeah but his out again as all that papers you write that looks publish amended minden humanity's it's a couple bucks out there but but yeah a may not like i can't deny that i felt much freer after i got after i got tenure to explore topics that i would be more hesitant to explore thy voice which topics in frontier drugs drugs for sure trial as again as a buzz up as a research area for full force you know when i go into it again because there's of
legitimate purpose to a scholarly study of of the connections between religion and drugs some luckily i'm not the only one who was pursuing this but but it's it's i believe there are a lot of interesting connections that having been made especially in and contemporary american society the other the other drug that i am particularly interested in and seems to get a lot of responses i also include pharmaceuticals and prescription psychoactive drugs as a part of the drugs and religion connection and i m so looking at the pharmaceutical industry and then pills
sort of religious objects and structures and cultures really how south were like anti exciting medication i honour yeah i mean that as just a kindly out its ritual eyes so you wouldn't we ve gotta make sure you know you take it and take it when you're supposed to take it you put faith in this little magic bill that is effective and can bring you to a better place it has importance in terms of community and who you are connected with how the drug allows you to add certain kinds of community so a lot of this is obviously kind of message you see the messages in in pharmaceutical commercials which her for me dripping with kind of religious sentiments and sensibilities can be saved in the hour you saved you while you saved with a pill
so this is a subject in particular that like pre ten year would be it out we walk and i and shells then to the drugs more generally i wouldn't be i would by well yeah i would not be necessarily going but i mean i'm not sure the professors share your perspective on tenure that that's kind of nonsense or bullshit i would say yes there are some but not much joy it though i think most people would like to keep it in and think it serve some function in terms of as your sayings of them so little legitimacy of academic for some people are internally motivated some people are motivated just buy whatever drives them whatever intellectual curiosity their goals whatever it is it has nothing to do with financial stability or job stability
but that's not not most most people if you give them one hundred percent job security they're gonna get fat i'm afraid i i would agree absolutely wired and and you're right some people largest interference is motivated they want to succeed and been pursue their interests so no matter what and and certainly no number of of scholar who were like the shore they make their way to the top the path is that interests i am rather than the destination is not real right the ugly i think that's exactly right them but soda joked earlier i joke that i now this is called work and i don't feel i really work right i have a great great job love what i do will you nailed it right you figured out what actually interest you and
some people that is what you do would be work but not for you why right exactly now again among very fortunate embed specially being an emory so it is a different kind of professional life that i've been really fortunate and i wasn't planned you know i was a fuck up and as i write about in this new book you know i don't think about death which is a member on mortality i was direction listen just fuckin around at high school in getting tired and taken all kinds of drugs algeria now can you believe that in the san fernando valley that's weird you're doing that the san fernando valley no one does the elderly you must have a rebel right conformity oh my god what part our values live in them are all studios and wooden house right and and and one year guys grew up in the values
a charm hemmed aspen i swore galvanise swear benny the jets jet centre was right right nor that was fun it welcomes kip our first place i came to an eighteen california can wait together the jets are because you would about it i'm a guy who's legendary benny are key does a legendary tick boxer in the early days of kickboxing and he came out of los angeles yes so funny how many people come out of san fernando value connected them and began ass like ass not that funny a lot of people out there as well but in any case i was i was on a different path and luckily came around yeah for sure so what what led you out of the fog of adolescent craziness and fuck up hurry a woman ah a beautiful storing earthlink now my word i current wife that i'll is really help to bring me into
the direction although not i wouldn't say only her but you know is based all of a sudden i started really liking to learn and i went i dropped out of college a couple times and and meeting her settling down all of a sudden thinking more critically and more and more deeply and taking classes more seriously so i move from usually are sitting in the back of the room to the front as i became a junior and senior in
in college so was essentially deserve a natural course of progression use became naturally more interesting things naturally more curious naturally more dedicate learning napster lulu but but for some strange reason i was back then very interested in death so i very much the subject as i was doing my undergraduate why it s well that that's the memoir i have no idea but i say the memoirs starts with the me as a young kid maybe eight or nine and waking up in the middle of the night with all this commotion our house the small san fernando valley house three bedroom in one bath then looking down the hallway and seeing what seem to be like fifty firemen couldn't have been fifty firemen so i'm sure there were only
few who were rushing into our bathroom where my grandfather was and when he was we entered the bath he had a heart attack and died and i kind of witness that and they took him out of the bathroom and that that but what really what's really vivid as a memory associate with this was after the death of the family rob i came to our house and i just remember very vividly being in the back yard with him and he asked me do you know them
meaning of death is eight or nine like i know no idea and he must have said some things but the thing that that really stood out and as the title of the book is him saying don't think about death just think about the living and trying to help your father cope with his grief and may i people ask when did you start how did you get onto the topic of death this early memory seems to stand out at night i utterly failed in the rabbis advice and i think that that point really started thinking a lot about we're out of the rabbis advice was so good well think any you never tell you don't think about either absolutely i meant dont think about the light elephant in the room i think about the out of something it's ever get advise well i've come around
again i had a lovely by lovely experience a temple even though after my bar mitzvah i never looked back how do you when you rather than i was about eight so yeah well that's something you would say to an eight year old but again it's just it's not how people how people's brains were well and it's not you know being fair to the to the reality were we're all going to have to fill out for sure death is just integrated and apart life and who i think thinking about it and trying to figure it out as it is is valuable i think gum ultimately we ve been given a bunch of crude tools to deal with insanely complex issue this finite life form that we find ourselves inhabiting our consciousness is trapped in this finite thing and
and we ve been given these very crude tools for on navigating and for coping and for just this the way we interact with each other about these these rights complex subjects we get beat new get very simplistic very just empty phrases it not provide any real comfort right and that right and that are in some sense traditions three hours and down the sort of as part of they lore unhallowed you're supposed to deal with death yeah but for me in what was clear as i was studying more and more in terms of what you are saying is that that is what religion is all about in a really i think religion is very much a response to death the embryo and then religious life is sort of required
if you're gonna be human to deal with death now what are the sources that give you the right tools again traditional religion has been the primary resource for people and that's fading and now people are have all kinds of ideas about death and what happens after death and again don't necessarily follow the so called or traditional authorities yeah who want to teach us about death have richard dawkins on the pact ass once in several weird moment where we are talking about death and he was saying that he thinks that when it's over there's nothing and ethnic
sort of like semite gradually said well you don't think that what do you think i don't know maybe i don't know but i know that i've trip balls and you have brought back with the other one is scared to do an acid verde had strokes and stuff body like when you gonna when you get to dive into the pool right and i think he's brilliant and i loved a lot of his takes on religion and i think i in many ways been aggressive because of the push back of his perspective as an atheist but i think that i think people that have had profound psychedelic experiences are not that the tat confident because you didn't know that that could exist until you you had it and then once you ve it you like what this is all about i think anybody says i know it is all about when you die it's blank it's done
and that's it you shut off and it's over my maybe or maybe you come with me and i'll take it to a place and we're gonna do some stuff and you're gonna meet all kinds of god's right done last how long will you got a couple hours you like we could we could change every for you in a couple hours right completely does robbed and challenge all of your assumptions that you also evaporate them well i think from that real that's what gets me in trouble more than anything buys a religion troubled world in when when when we talk about atheists and because i take this approach again much more to be provocative that there are no atheists were all religious again real if europe if if if you willing to entertain my very broad understanding of religion and religious life than i would say okay so that's a very a broad because of what we're not talking about what would you
argument religion in terms of like takings annex you're not talking about a higher power really do not talk about faith in it ran creator that has had some master plan for every single thing and they are all interconnected an entire universe is all part of his master project that's well i dont think you need the creator to be religious rights or something power i legacy july we in vienna you need some access to transcendence you need some way of understanding your own self and identity you need to have a system of values that will guide you and through your life yeah i'm a way of being you need to have community and some form so you know i'm a more anthropic logical than theological is not one when we might put it so if you're talking about really
in a native american cultures where no doubt no and there's no way third for religion and any of those languages the out so when you think about well what's religion pre colombian you known native cultures well it's what they do with the crops you know what's you know how they set up their sort of ritual mommy's it is their relationship to the weather is the things and then where's thirdly a higher power but you know it is i've seeing that there's more than just materialism yeah what is the problem the word cuz the word religion like we have like a very narrow definition for it fits into our our society in our culture like religion oh yeah i know what that is like
that's your a buddhist your muslim europe's christian europe real hats religion dude you gotta technically let me come back to tat i wanted to do can someone can you guess lecture them do so what am i gonna say well come on psychedelic were due to this week but yeah no i maybe we can just i think that's the one sucks yeah the religion as i like to say a isn't is an invention is a word that we have invented to label a lot of different kinds of behaviour is very clunky word in lot waterways absolutely just like you say oh he's religious like got it you know right now all of a sudden you think you know nothing with was a guy that we ve made fun of bunch on the show who was a pastor to a lot of famous people who like the hip young pastor we just got good examples bang it some check
made fun of because unlike looks disguised as no way disguise religious this is what i was saying because he was wearing these shorts that showed what i called his dick route like you whereas shorts that go way low which you just don't worry short shorts like that unless you want someone think about your peanut right that's that's why you wear shorts like that were maybe in the seventies it was by no means that is no reason time i'll catch you guys who wear shorts that low right there there being overtly sexual two people they don't even necessarily know right me you're trying to anyone when i look at your chisel body you know like this is there's a reason why mugs dress in these like my very modest clothes that cover everything they don't want to think about their body and that is a part of the religion of both celebrity and social media that this guy has got these traditional christian
ideas fused in with them legion of celebrity a thin with their religion of social media and then you see now does really work cause you don't like what what's the reward for those that those behaviors the reward as you want that a fuck like that what's people that's deck i want people to lust after flesh and it wound up sabotaging ultimately absolutely i think here it is now a morality story of some kind of usa all yes you know this is a kind of em celebrity fame tat kind of pursuing the track it on you is it it's a trap because of you achieve what what are you what it is or your lusting after this this attention and and this sexual praise and you want people do last after you you also want them to think of you as being someone who is
more enlightened than everyone else which is why you're willing to stand in front of them and give these emotional pro found sermons in the first place the rest nato that these last young people well right historically the theirs a lot of overlap between sort of celebrity and the religious preaching levelling billy sunday shore you know others that do you know that that that's i believe the religious leader becomes a celebrity in a house lines get blurred and while the law becomes entertainment with first laboratories there is a need for that because they feel very law and disconnected because they have achieved the thing that they those desired and they still feel laws everyone's looks at certain every single oh my god you made it your life we have in and their depressed and all fucked up
and we don't have any sympathy for that there's no one's gonna be sympathy sympathetic to justin bieber with fourteen three honey million dollars in the bank and having sex with anybody who wants to eleven fuck you depressed a piece of shit famous your whole life but for him it's probably very confusing because first of all particularly like the really young people who became famous while they were young like and miley cyrus on who i think is incredibly talented brilliant brilliantly town to her voice is fantastic stick mid so sulphur but she can famous when she was twelve i have a twelve your old man i can't even imagine i can't imagine being the boss and and we all when you're twelve that's madness and no one survives it they don't maybe a few have gotten threaten their saying right but most of em don't and that's where celebrity preacher come in or someone who can harness
you're you're celebrity in a boost them up and they can also provide you maybe even a member of his disingenuous but some sort of a structure that makes you feel like there is more that you did you can you can cling to something that's gonna make sense of this all and that something is jesus or mom or whatever it is whatever it is that you u cling to whenever structure that you cling to write buddha whatever it is right and they can and that can be exploited yeah i especially in those situations i think was a vote what you're saying now them a gap or absence now oh god oh god here gap and is this all there is i think for the children in particular because they not oh god i got there have never been norm now well that especially it's like in cement but you ve never added waterman kids never there's something missing there well you didn't grow up right
many of them don't they won't survive cannot survive and then we are obviously drugs can be a one way to it's the most common way too to deal yeah tried it right a deal yeah i'm well aware of a lot of people in the hole hollywood show business world that grew up famous and almost none of them survive yeah rob low did though rob logo famous really are he's super nor i hear be like one of the only ones have ever met and of hunger with em right and of hunger also and more importantly with him and his son who is also really normal really adjusted to but he also got clean so rise early on right right right so yeah maybe he made it he made of but besides very few sauce very beautiful up its priority to be robbed low man he's gotta be what
is forty third now he's older now believes olivier i'm fifty three i believe robs out alive anyway there you know he's one of the few that famous very young and has navigated through with grace but i think the ones that are children that grow up child stars the no one's gonna chemo show and like i share their good luck now i mean that's so they find these celebrity preachers this is often what happens they find gurus since nobody preachers right as someone tries to make sense of it we look forward to put our faith in you now and and that's that their there too is of pretty common universal aspect human life is in the process i have something to believe in those poor gurus they fall into the trap took is now they can leech off the success of these famous people become famous themselves right and maybe they haven't really
immunized themselves inoculated themselves to the power of celebrity sure it's a very intoxicated like you gotta understand how to avoid it right and avoid the pitfalls of it's not easy well again that's that's life that everyone wants amendments that that's part of the pressure i assume for a lot of people yeah you know the american public the global audiences are can be transfixed on permanent on you and on and also what would you have but i think what you really learn from those those preachers does preachers that only go after like really like knocked none o go after but a tract celebrities like there's something to that weird but a parasitic genre of vienna of preacher right now
great i think might write for study tat has been any kinds shed was certainly a male nimby shrouded but we have seen how our drugs for now the latter i go well every decent drug intoxication yeah this is yeah rafter eternal for the celebrity i think there's a drug and so in their there's etc drugs that are mixed together and sort of a concoction there's a jew of celebrity which you know for sure is a drug and then there's also a drug it being the person as the answers definitely and there something that people do when they convince other people that they have the answers that ellen bates their mood in their perspective this like some weird girl drug so there's the girl drug and then there's a celebrity drag we're neighbors identifying a whole nexus of damage with that guy was the sex drugs he's a beautiful man is a handsome tall ripped now shredded preacher guy
a lot of drugs goin on their well then i wonder how extensive it always has well in terms of his you know would it would have kinds of activities he was engaged in the gaza strip but ended i think with people like these words on when i give a simplistic perspective i think he could have benefited from real drugs say i think a person whose involved in those three we're drugs and they ve really really get a benefited from psychedelic psychedelic would have let you hey hey hey you sure you doing see what you don't i zog is dangerous and i know what you're doing you're pretending you're pretending to be profound you're pretending to pious your pretending to be enlightened your pretending to be above at all but you're not just one of us right and that can be pretty pretty stabilizing in allow for someone like that but also transform
that's where israel benefit in those destabilizing i think so too like toby blind like getting paranoid from pot part monomer fairer parts because when it's over i feel good it's like a near death experience are you always survive didn't happen you're ok but also there's a lesson in it that fear comes with a lesson and that that security comes with a lesson and i think part of the lesson is appreciate them woman of life appreciate life presented this oh and when you're all fucked up on a par with eggs crazy like it's over you can like right you relax and you can appreciate things in a different way right well and that some having that new awareness as young as is can be reached nato is also a right yeah you mean that creation our know how things are we aren't you know
in this sense of security of some kind the paranoia itself as a hyper sensitivity of the reality of your finite existence that goes back to death yeah because that's that's really we we were living life like it i mean this is right the ears not a religion right the religion of materialism this it's the most ridiculous one and this is like bible tell you not to worship false idols i'd put part of that is this worship of a thing right of an object of of things you're trying to acquire their difficult to acquire but then once you get them is one require acquire the next right well that's there's no are you consumerism riots what's right there's no object or will you like if i just get at is one purse beyond all settled going to be i'm going to feel so good because a normal right no need more yeah well the mai enough there two of them as a scholar not
judgment or no materialism is a religion and lets you know it's got some half and then and validity in terms of how people orient themselves in the world but again isn't it sort of hijacking the same sort of human reward systems in that it's difficult to acquire like say if you want a mercedes like a new mercedes coop their hard to get you gotta have a lot of i need to get one of them am g mercedes coops there's a b full engineer and they come from germany and sound great and god you have to have a lot of money to get that so get out we have it how are you see when dr demonstrate that i got one where'd you get it right right how did he get that i want to be like i wanna be that i like coming where life was gonna watch to market we striving these things i mean that's get philosophical on
highlighted by social media as well righteous people will pose and front of their beautiful mercedes with their gold was like look at me right mean ball out of control over here that's all you wish you were like may help project yeah i'll image and it's really was this will provide a depression to exactly know absolutely that's that's what they're finding in terms of fell people morn engaged immersed in their social media lose themselves specially i think you'll find them there did they think they're gonna be able to find themselves or at least you no kind of attempt to project a certain image of the self that they would like yeah e ryanair that's just living by that i think is is debilitating jaspers and sense of ego confidence who they are and in real life do you think that
there's a religion we're not not a religion but a framework structure that maybe someone to develop an order successfully like classes in the pitfalls of all these things were talk about materialism social media maybe a religion that can be developed to deal with the modern time the mai in times pitfalls of primes and trials tribulations that we're dealing with today though not worse than fan i mean i'm in the middle of may say his name no are you ve all harare his name you know the guy who wrote sapiens perceval nowhere harare harare homo ds book but i'm in the middle of now and on its stunning he starts the book off with all
these examples of famine play and famine where the person a vast majority of cultures of experience one of those two things plague or famine or both plague and fast throughout history and is talking about how many decades they went on where people starve to death and how many how many times in history people lost thirty percent of the population are twenty percent of the population to starvation i mean mad snuff the things that people how to deal with its own terms of like what we after our trials and tribulations our biology survive far easier to dennis but maybe our consciousness is just as vulnerable now that's ever been before if not more but the problems and his big but with they are because of the problems we know right right wing and consciousness is trying to understand surrounding and die
the surroundings a pretty complex you know it's not just a matter of food for survival there's rang or shelter the weird problem media it's the sea and what we think are real problems butter inconveniences some difficulties so in some obviously lots of serious problems but i mean i think you know we don't have the tools the intellectual religious spiritual mental tools in and in terms of dealing with all of all of these so called problems that surround us yellower coupling while just thinkin by you in the middle of this pandemic and whenever i get from cost three hundred thousand dead and that has the feeling of some kind of mass death event as well how that will affect our consciousness
as the deaths continue will be interesting have more people die from cigarettes during this pandemic than of died from covered that i don't know why i dont like a half million people die every year from cigarettes and aren't we at about eight months in were about a month ago so i would not mean we're probably neck and neck with cigarettes well i mean there are lots of different causes of death you sure you can point to the answer seems to be again above are of a different kind of order for certainly because its non voluntary right right it's not of your own decision to smoke something those ryan clearly labelled a carcinogen right and its mysterious yeah we're not sure what the rioters is rising but again em out you know i'd terms of going off what you were saying i am just sort of wondering how consciousness our collective consciousness is gonna be
you know dealing with our your ideas about death and sort of questions around through social social responses and yet in the face of this kind of event yeah well we this is say an issue that we haven't overcome before it's a new thing it's novel while we're things about people's they it doesn't help to tell people that well compared to other times and other generations we have an easy because is hard as you have it today that the worst that happens to you today is still there where's that happens to you and that's all that we understand why we don't really understand like i'm telling people about famine like when i was explaining the harare book no one that's no one is gone oh my god now i get it now i'm gonna not think social media and i'm gonna be here
be that i can just go in and get a burger then i think that one no that's not that has worked on zaire people from me saying that to these people hearing it no one has had a lie bob go off like of course there's no famine now i feel much better thank you it doesn't work that way it doesnt work people only understand what's the worst thing to happen to them right that's why spoiled people scream and yell over nothing like oh my god you're so spoiled but we're looking at the wrong way that's just the way first thing that's ever happened that right and that's what the only thing they know and yes how did you break people out of that very solar understanding of the difficulties of life you have children misery you know what it's like one kids are young when they think it's the end of the world like one of my daughters so is ten the other ones twelve the twelve year old ate a couple of pieces of the ten year old halloween candy
god was chaos in my house yesterday chaos and scream at my ten year old she doesn't it bullshit she gets mad and she start screaming like jesus christ it's candy just this is not and it takes a while and i don't think they really ever understand how good they have it it's it's hard for people if that's the worst thing that's happening now they think it's the worst thing they think it's like a real bad dangling the perspective is so difficult to achieve like to achieve like and oh i got to lift above and look at it from the exactly an apparent isn't necessarily gonna help barely mean there may be in the long run that can there can turn out but you need to talk to them and then let them blow off steam that's look that's kids as i was saying you know when they start transition into adulthood that's when things really come to the fore
i am sure thing about who they are and how they are yeah and you know the difficulties get greater and weirder and and then with time those seem minuscule like i remember when i was eighteen my girlfriend broke up with me i thought it's the end of the world couldn't believe it oh my god an urban so sad so depressed you know and then like a couple years later might thank god she's so crazy like what was i thinking like as right was that i was in the middle of this terrible relationship and i leave and understand it right well they sort it goes back to something you said earlier about how we how to deal with those our own struggles are different yes we destroy counselor hit other than the other side right then
then you know with good some where do you turn for community or firm sort of buffering yeah support and em and that's the card for i think especially a lot of younger people yes people coming of age into adulthood well that's why i try to preach the religion of physical struggle because i think the monday please help me through all sorts of things is to make my physical work out some it's more difficult than anything else i'll have to deal with in my life so it so hard to do and so fuckin exhausting and and and i want to do it and then it's over other things are whatever i may my own bullshit is basically what i do right too in order to not yet spoiled by life and i think there some there's a real there's a real lesson to learn in then i've learned from other people right now it's time i figured out of my own but a piece
together in a way that works for me and i think that whether its yoga or even mental things with its points ass for meditation something more difficult than regular difficulties right right i was gonna follow up you said that you wanna talk about their unity the religion of the exercise working out and i'm for me i would say my religion is learning you know and knowledge and in just trying theo to intellectually kind of absorb is much the cannon and that's about that not like working out but it is more a mental stuff that you're talking about words it's even archaeologist times i you know i did just i've got to sort of go back to the books and try to try to learn as much as i can on whenever topic we're talking about but again it's it's your doing something did
adult anything there sir there is a study they did on chest players and they were trying to figure out why chess players lose so much weight during his big tournaments and they realize if they're burning thousands and thousands of powers at day playing chess at a very high level right and like these as would lose a tremendous amount of waste that i think i wonder where how that works yeah a crazy number of calories are forget what the exact number was maybe jamie could fund study but they were trying to figure out what was happening to these chest players and then they realized like oh when they're playing at this incredible high level world championship caliber there their brains are fly here six thousand calories how robertson ascii whose brilliant so just sitting there but you're not you're arenas firing up at a million second our pm's roberts ascii who i love studies stress and primates at stanford so
a chess player can burn up to six thousand hours a day while playing an eternal three times what an average person consumers in a day that's amazing that's amazing that's amazing but it makes sense right when the brain is going on when you're thinking when when you're so focused while they're playing i levels playing several different games writers are not just playing what's in front of them they're playing if i do this he does that so but if i do this he does this if i did that this happens then that happens then this happens or that happen if that happens this happens in the dirt so there their brains and yet again and there are caught are and and how the bodies is well that's a weird thing about doing part castles like sometimes at the end of the day i'm puttin exhausted i haven't done anything just was sitting talking so goddamn easy look what's wrong with me schoolmasters
their bus there ass worked really hard but that's remind myself to nasa and teaching or reading a book working but i think this intellectual pursuit pursuits yeah i think there's more struggled and we thank them are you has to be otherwise everybody would do it i think there are lots of fact in terms of the people go on to graduate school and continue in the life of learn yeah right it's it's it's a weird feeling like that got the job joked but also been serious that's my village we have already put religion area while learning and that's where i get power by religious meaning is it feels like teaching sexuality the last ten years would have gotten increasingly more minefield like definite
definitely a lot of topics have i would say over the last ten years sexuality for sure but i do i mean i get off getting into the topic and especially in this kind of them with this kind of purpose nor how can i how can a blow students minds around the topic and end and i am merely have to be fully aware of the various sensitivities that might be out there with students and on how do you i always though i mean it's just you know i'm gonna be covering some very touchy topics and if you aren't able to deal with that you shouldn't be classed like what seems to be the most touchy or what are an example of a particularly touchy subject while the doubt efforts to preserve the death class would be suicide you know that's just one that i've ever really tiptoed around until recently
tiptoed also took as i want i want to talk about suicide sound willing that's the kind of weird but ipad this aversion to having that really be a topic in my class until until recently and that some of that i think i have a lot to do know what to do with a feeling of i'm not fully prepared or trained to deal with students who were really are going with suicide feel that would open matter so what i've changed in the last couple of years it's like other too many suicide the numbers have gone up and you know i mean i think is an important topic that's wanting myths wrapped up in a huge way during this pandemic i just read that as terrifying behind its an under reported
to sum up i have a body that was talking to sheriff and allay news saying that these two get you know one suicide a week another often dealing with five day that's crazy crazy remember yassum then it's not something that people point to as being a side effect of of the pandemic the mean them maybe give it a cursory served they talk about it very very rarely but its it i think it's huge issue right my despair and also this feeling that allowed people have there's no way out of this i think that's getting financially losing their businesses losing their homes losing their their ability to feed themselves they are now i'm in this unprecedented for so many people yo where they find the strength to carry
and deal with it is not always so how did you prepare differently for a subject that you had such a difficulty in describing and teaching before with suicide what he meant it did you de pelt when you decided to start talking about it how much time do you spend sitting down by yourself and you ok how do i do this quite a bit of time i think without topic in and really trying to again i am i wanna position myself so i'm not the school counselor and i'm not of the rail by or the prisoner preacher and i'm not the parent so you know it's carving out this intellectual space if you dont want is the history of suicide what are their you no kind of them motivating factors and forces and and
patterns of suicide and so on and then i'd i really try to bring in popular culture songs that door express ideas about suicide or thinking about suicides of celebrities so you know like and i try to find a way to put those pieces together in and a good way that's intellectually stimulating the doesn't just kind of work on the psychological level if you can think about that as a distinction the psychological level suddenly so many different reasons right yeah i mean i everything silly as it sounds a man of my goal is to have a sort of de personalized i will try to keep personal the experiences and feelings out of the car that doesn't sound silly it all now it's hard to do obvious
leave men and they do creep in and find expression but still its with these topics that's that's the game plan yeah how long have you been doing suicide discussions well is it really past few years as i've seen these rand as i've heard from students who i mean this is really lucky reason i just the number of students who came into my office telling me about someone they knew committed suicide men at every just again
your four years ago when i would have more and more students and i'm talking about it and again the death class opens up space space where got can at canfield income in and and and want to talk about what will you worried about not doing it justice what you worried about push back what what what what was the fear of not cassinetts previously that there were students who might be suicidal and then you might somehow another agora while i'm in again maybe you know were blown fear but responsible fear of being very responsible thinking that way it's just you know for so long i just knew what was the topic i intentionally we're gonna go there in them but it but as i said is changed just because the dynamics of changed with i think young people into
yeah how it has evolved over the last few years even teaching it i think i have grown more comfortable with that most mostly as an important element of the class and
i can see students being willing to engage in the topic i think in ways that i wrote i imagine would not have been a similar earlier i just i like to go after the taboo topics where i know students are already considering in reflecting on them even though they don't have an outlet for really intellectual kind of consideration really removing themselves from whatever they personally think about suicide or homosexuality or when and allow them to kind of again learn history learn about different culture
and then try to provoke them as much as i can t get them to get them to really think outside the box but also to sort of dig in two through their own abilities to figure some out when you teaching a subject like like the first day when you ve been thinking about doing it for so long but not want to trigger people the first day you did it that had to be a very unique kind of class for you i was i mean i i think just the hesitancy from war and then bringing it up like this glass has two to three hundred students so it's it's not like me and wrap twelve people right now it's it's a very the part of that setting forces me to some kind of think about what may africa the forces me to think about delay
very know because it's not gonna be so interactive and then and so that neon when i really went in to the class without topic i felt hum like i was able to really convey the points i wanted to get across and get them to which is the most important thing even in the class that sizes to feel like they could chill and kind of relax and talk about the topic without feeling you know pressure is from anyone or feeling anything's taboo and can't be do you get questions from students during during your lectures on us out bob generally idea a minute he opened it out to the absolute what it what's a common question
when it comes to suicide on there aren't a lot of common questions i think you know students the vast a variety of different things that often have to do with which christianity about suicide what do you know what do the religion say about suicide guess from vietnam to they turn to you for help what can i do what should someone do if someone knows a friend whose suicidal i give them the resources for people who are trained can really help them with those kinds of more practical intimate concerns i don't i play the role lot but you know professor who'd who doesn't want to get so do i want to hear my personal experience weathers about drugs are grieving or sexual experience
the sexual experience one you're saying also that you have to be very sensitive to the feelings of the people in your class or students like how do you like what would it particularly difficult subjects to explore my comes too well well i like sexuality in popular culture and music where you know all kinds of graphic languages used like that debate peace is that i haven't guarantees moldavia teaching late last all a lad zion teach it i go try to go there but a careful some students are guy you're gonna be less insulting or and this is terrible our main again but he had estate its referring but its data data if you wanna take study of religion seriously and you're gonna beef encountering things that make you uncomfortable yes and
you gonna discuss sexuality if you're particularly prudish i have a very difficult time discussing this the way various people about it right but meanwhile the varieties that are talking about may i dream whenever you know that's not there and all kinds of things but is other than religion that's probably the most charged subject that you can discuss with people today people have some really steadfast ideas about what right and what's wrong and when it comes to sexuality since it seems at least one place where we gaining or were were showing some evolution or some progress is with the acceptance of homosexuality homosexuality seems to be weigh less taboo now than at any other time mylife like downpour are
becoming much more comfortable with it this evening like the universally in this try at least there is some very little resistance to gay marriage very very little resistance to gay unions are gay rights that's all change gnats altering when i was a kid it was of you are at the same time i was a kid but where young remember lived in san francisco from the time of seven till i was eleven those around our law gay people my next door neighbours my aunt easter get naked they would smoke new play the bongos us does gay couple doesn't lived next orbs larry's i was just around it is normal and then we moved from there to gains vill florida is really like the universe throw me a curveball and has friend and his dad was really mad gay people get married and he threw the newspaper down the tables i can't fucking believe this
and i was like was like what does he so upset about i understand it he was mad that gay people are gonna be allowed to get married and i'm ever think about what a dummy and i was eleven a grown man thirty years all freaking out about some stupid shit right like what i didn't understand didn't make sense to me but he was normal to me but i think that those people all really rare now people like him there there much more rather they were when i was a lap solution now there's been a big huge sea change in attitudes and that's u no letter a lot of conflict and then shore aspects of the culture wars but still i would agree you know absolutely most people have come around do you discussed that kind of stuff like this the evolution of our ideas about sexuality young drug definitely a minute i try to as a part of it
for me sexuality is you know it's not your sex it's right gender religion lay in reproduction yam and religion so it's it's abroad gender too broad category absolutely boat in america especially when you start when you move outside of you know the traditional man and woman having sex and the missionary position the doubtful how reproductions you're gonna how not to have it so well you know that is the dominant glum ideal as you know gone by the wayside wayside mean it is certainly the ideal for many but sexuality in america today is fast and furious right but if you think that does the ideal then you're a freak all of a sudden well what do i mean surely this part of these ships and attitudes stats was interesting to me who's the authority to to tell us yeah what is right
hurrah for sure and then also they hypocrites like they're so many people that we have looked at as these religiously irises of turns out of this guy's a freak perverted unworthy i've i've read i don't know where the study is but lino viewing pornography is kind of high in the bible but oh yeah the cricket also again exerts well will he not what we are well aware that that discrepancies well what's really sacred to you now visas on sunday or you know what you're doing or gangbanger now riflemen whatever yarn job you're going to yeah so you know people like the projected say who they are in
they have other yesterday like that wretched yeah that's a good way of putting the hewett bridge ability to pretend i'm make believe do you discuss the type of pornography the people view and how that as sir changed well i mean i write about pornography in that book sacred matters i have checked chapter on sexuality and i write about throughout and you just while the cosmetics sonnets really going to say that throughout oh yeah linda loveless very reims in their story is again a morality tail one talk about sexuality moving talk about religion didn't harry reims become a politician afterwards well as i remember was it he became a reality he might oh that's right renounce rhymes really but but and became very successful surreal los angeles right well
you know so i mean i'd do you obviously want to include the after include non reproductive forms of pleasure in sexual activity is not discussed from religious precepts deep throat was a movie that played in movie theatres rival the dont know and people went to see that movie and they wait in line like couples would go dress normal not wearing raincoats regular people in fact johnny carson was in line waiting to see deep throat and they interviewed him talk to him about it because it was it was a movie that was a movie it was it was wasn't just a stag film and the whole idea was that back then porn graffiti in terms of like step that's where they would calm stag films they'd be these phil
their play because people didn't have access to a movie projector for the most part the very rare thing to have in your home silver p to play those things they'd have to together the bunch of guys at a party like when it goes out to get married look at this does what you're gonna do i want to people far right and those films of europe seen em they're really weird bavaria has from the beginning of the twin century there very strange know the history of pornography is fascinating and there's a remember watching this thing on deep throat and then i'll just format very clearly johnny cars getting interviewed talking about yeah you know i'm talking about doing i typed in johnny carson i found an article that says admit man is sidekick was such a phantom movie shut up a six friends in a case of the bizarre that latvia that's a real news i'm sure i'm sure that i'm sure there's you frank sinatra was when the early audience members
no vice president spiro agnew warrant baby truman capacity shirley maclean nora efron without as bob woodward while would britain bernstein and sammy davis jr who grew so enamoured of linda lovelace that within the year he and his wife would be having group sex with her and her husband holy shit sammy i did monsanto that raise a sect me was a very loud it was the the longest signally two minutes that millions of people whatever sit through in retrospect the most instead decision damianus august the person made it made was to rename the movie deep throat nothing else could pass explain its success was regional networks law laces interviewed by johnny carson tonight show wow stuck in the interest of socialite students swingers in the curious so that's what s interesting is like crazy people we think of pornography as being something that was awful that you should hide right it seems to me
that is discussed far less now that it's much more accessible so people almost don't wanna talk about it in terms of alike average data civilization right because the so prevent is everywhere well it's not just pervasive which also it's too accessible that's u dont it's it's still aegis yeah that's not abu like what's with right it's weird it's it's an i've done reason and was things i've noticed is less stepmother porn lately theirs lastly all you get one why what is that i don't know man but if you go to wild porn though i did a lot of its stepmom stuff ok it's like my hot stepmom dad's at a town that kind of weird well i will say by my hope michael doesn't by me calling around but the universe don't know your name ok universe california santa barbara
the film studies department they have a class on pornography or they did about step moms and well that i don't have that operate made it in by this as a gene rather film we can teach about it yet its laws it should be a genre study because it is a pity of human life it's weird part of human life that is not very discussed right why enough the super nervous well and people i'm involved failures of dollar right and not really anymore i don't think they make much money i well that weird no the economics in terms of the impact of in terms of the prevalence of it it's in credit prevalent i think there's something bananas like right twenty plus per cent of all internet traffic pornography which is insanity it's an insane insanely high number yet the amount is this gaston polite company is like
less than one percent right is a very very rarely discussed if not does missed as a joke right and there's something that in itself speaks falling yeah i down about it here goes five percent of all internet download are related to pornography how can i come in it is amazing that the highest percentage of any topic i wonder now must be i wouldn't lastly i am most visited solaris about two hundred thousand americans are classified as porn attics here we go there's probably another hundred million that are full of shit to get the fuck out of here that's such a low number this is a very low number also through seven pornographic videos are created in every day every it is our that's what i thought that they have never been to the san francisco will you right there
the centre of it all we well they passed some sort of wacky rule a few years where they had to wear condoms in in the porn and for a year and then people while we're moving out of our warnings and they are doing and other places right nobody wants i'm being safe airborne save all should have actually stepmom for i wanted you waiting save i want gaddafi's where the law on the driveway when you climax out that's that's nobody wants they want naughtiness yes that's it's weird that when it's prevalent it's also so rarely disgust and just as it big of a class like that would be a very interesting thing to discuss just in terms of human nature in psychology sure and history now they can about that now the other and if we have really gonna guitar
about this the other under study topic that starting to get more studies the orgasm right in thinking about mystical experiences or ashore certain kinds of thumb ego dissolving aspects of of human life with some it's in there and i teach about that as well in owen and both the death glass and the sexuality class right do you were discussed tantric well some of you might my my training is an american religious history money in these courses i do try to very superficially in our talk about a different religious cultures and sir only tantric you're got us a weird woman comes an orgasm right because they're like china in turn ellie orgasm thus that real well i don't know idea times like but some girl shit man there well
in any event in american history there have been interesting attempts at different kinds of sexual culture seeing the united community oh yeah every noise you know i wanted don't want anyone orgasm you know i was u want to hold it in but you have sex with does want no marriage that never lasts there's nothing like about this in our view did fall apart this sex called the next how to sit next to him i have not following i haven't either in there and i haven't either but i am i keep making mental note to eventually there's a documentary apparently is a document or series or something hulu thing or some but its apparent pretty fast name here because it was involved like legitimate celebrities like people on television chosen stuff getting branded you're right it's a documentary show on stars stars or five episodes yeah
that's a weird one right right will remain most six calls are over that that kind of them focus on sex as a part of religious fast and religious what is common law against that like how they arresting people like one of the people do that there do you know jamie i people jail for this the sex called right i will in the thing the six out my head is people getting branded run or those like the negative the next thing there's us another show called the vow that has some its i think it's the same topic that's an hp oh ok don't off those direct document or you're like i'd like to find out what their draw jail for i'll look alike because people are going to jail well that's right and right when will they did what they said are this is this way cross alarm right you can't just what did you see why while country
that the document as a diagram in ireland over the lived in oregon stone backed origin not right i'm fuckin crazy origins and hugging we're all going to organ conspiracy conspiracy to commit forced labour forced labour who knows what you know the sounds like a good enough release forms the will see about putting it on the syllabus of creating interested something's here you don't need to go the while while country whips almost felt knock gotta pottle despite does not one step while while country is the documentary on osha that the guru the ending guy that had caught up in without the girl she low poisoned watch people right that is an amazing netflix parliamentary unearthly i've i've i've seen some oh my god i'm out but it's one that i always hear about and help them again it's real
well done but also revealing what is now we're seeing a fairly common story it's so funny because my front todd saw the first episode and his like it looks like so much fun i urge you to be here looks so grain is right in the block any it did look so great but bind both these things were talk about combined sexuality and religion it's like this their religion was of love and of peacefulness and saxon and harmony in it it all went terribly wrong they always do like they're like they often right always let what with islands has nailed it what color has never gone wrong figure all the traps and pitfalls in and made to the finish line none none zero well well that serve i think that i would agree with that statement as it as a general statement of yeah
seems where though they can't someone can't do it right now well i think that's may be built into religion was just waiter perfected well at least religion has figured out a way to achieve tax exempt status and a long you're a lust is history of success right well that's the beauty of the country yeah freedom of religion supposedly yeah yeah but once you get to a point where you do in a wild wild country type stuff it's not you it's no longer yeah so do you discuss those kind of things you classes occultism you know that are a part of the longer history so who more mechanism and you was an early called you no kind of marginalized community had a very different understanding of
sexuality in marriage and started by wacky for your eye i was completely fulla shit i won't exactly character i didn't i always will con man anyway so i tried to cover a lot of bases on the varieties of ways that sexuality gets you know bound up in religious yeah a mormonism is particularly unusual right in there interesting polygamy led them to leave the country at the un time were headed west smaller still there no in mexico oh that without at the continuing that yes but as you know the whole mitt romney family story that they're all down their style that it romney's down was actually born in mexico that's why you couldn't be present united states mommy's dad could satellite presently knows was born in mexico late they lived in this compound this is the
about the same kind of compound that was originally in the news because they had been attacked by cartel and women and children have been murdered ok s nevertheless were made are not really acts pats because i ve been there are so many generations that there now mexican citizens but their living in these compounds is fortified compounds in mexico and they originally went there so the good practice polygamy right when it was outlining outlawed here of course well not only that when there was no difference really between living in the united states and mexico in eighteen twelve whatever swaying united states amerika was not that bad idea right take your where'd you go over there and you bring your eight wives exactly and there is a way out went away we'll talk about a subject its filled with pitfalls that subjects probably particularly develop the subject of polygamy this is a particular
touchy one and almost always is a lot of wives my very rarely is one woman who gets pleasure of ten husbands right right there are some of tat i think examples of that body out the palazzo warming polygamy is for europe has been with multiple lives right have you ever ran away while no one in nine polygamy but there i believe there's another term about is a few gaza that off well i'm general open our eyes by means of its some it's part of the story and it is a little here it is partly a pie andrey form of polygamy which a woman takes two or more husbands at the same time how for example fraternal polly andrews practice among the tibetans in nepal parts of china and parts of northern india which two or more brothers married the same wife what the wife having equal set
equal access to them trust so far places by women have more than one husband there you go i'm in love malignantly that lower they're gonna look the woman's looking straight ahead like a ball guys look after silent shit i will happily there taken my picture her but her hand on their knees like eye on these two motherfuckers but there are looking off in the distance since one lady but for husbands that allows born out of control where is she she's dead that's all that's that's a picture from eighteen hundred sailor picture that was a much lower than the arctic no wish those pictures like that well like ours ass for now that's all from a rack while shares the ladys google rusty ok yeah no pun intended cougar deed
when listen man i really enjoy talk to do so fascinating series of subjects we brought up here lighted so you're in the middle of writing a book right now this what is the book tom religion and drugs dealer title now applying aroused and things but but if people want to be your past work what what can they ah well love they can read any of the book single do my website gary ladder men dot com you see the books one i mentioned a couple times called sacred matters and then this new book is on death as called but i sat don't think about death a memoir on mortality they can look me up they'll be other things that i've written that are on the web but you have social media would he have well play around on facebook and twitter given this ram instagram ok what is it gary langerman and siemens twitter derelict
and yet others while blocker aren't spoken yet thank you gary really really enjoy document thank you so much jails really fun out of greater beautiful thanks five buddy thank you friends returning to the show and thank you too for sick matic makers of delicious churches mushroom coffee for this month forcing matic is running a special sale you can start up everything you need to survive european system with up to fifty percent off to claim this deal you must go to forcing matic dot calm slash rogan this offer is only for jerry listeners it's not available on the regular website go to f o u r s g m eighty i see dot com slash rogan and get yourself some delicious mushroom coffee full discount applied at check out where also brought to you by simply safe simply
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Transcript generated on 2020-11-18.