« The Joe Rogan Experience

#490 - Andreas Antonopoulos

2014-04-22 | 🔗
Andreas Antonopoulos is a bitcoin entrepreneur, he also serves on the advisory boards of several bitcoin startups and serves as the Chief Security Officer of Blockchain.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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anthony like ok who did they ask it's like you know they say half the people say that the earth is less than ten thousand years old half the people in this country believe in biblical version of the bible it's like forty something a high forty over forty six percent shocking but now really when you consider the fact that one hundred percent of all people who answer surveys are idiots so have the idiots think the earth is ten thousand years old but for real legit nine out of ten customers who've actually used legalzoom say that they we recommend it and the a plus from the better business bureau you can't buy that son ok that only exists if a company is good they can help out with trademarks copyrights patents in the past twelve years over two million americans have used legalzoom and they've saved ass loads of money big ass loads like the kind of ass loads that you need those wipes for large large butts anyway you get a special discount from listening to this podcast make sure you enter rogan in the referral box at checkout from more saving
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get it all done with the on it steel bells i'm a big fan of the medicine ball i'm really only worked out with the primal steel bell once that was when i was at on it but i can see a big ben and it's also awkward to pick up you know when you're picking up one of these things it's not like picking up a weight it's gifts and moves around and the idea is that it sort of mimics real work so it's really good for like a conditioning workout if you want to do thing that really like up your option cardio just pick this up open slamming on the ground like one hundred and fifty times can be fucking exhausted bunch of different exercises that you can find with these things too really it's kind of cool there's a video of a bunch of them at on it and we also have a workout section at on it that you can go to for all the different workout quit meant like the steel bells kettle bells i have a new video that aubrey and i did where we were talking about our favorite exercises showed some alternate
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the joe rogan experience in how are you sir hi i'm to anchor great great great to have you back again man it was fun having you on before a lot of feedback a lot of people learned a lot about crypto currencies and the benefits of what's going on where the pushes where the negative things are in put a little balance to a lot of the negative press that you hear about bitcoin and all these different various crypto currencies in the me yeah because that's literally all i hear i mean i know people are trading things back and forth but you really put it into perspective for us especially when you were talking about that was one hundred and fifty million dollar transactions that was the one that was done through bitcoin when you start here and things like that you go ok well there's some people out there have some serious fucking money and they're banking on this they're throwing their chips in this corn
at least some of them to see what's going on and i guess the idea is if it's worth one hundred and fifty million dollars today who fuckin knows what it would be worth in five years that's the big gamble right yeah yeah it is but i i think it's important not to look at it as an investment it's so much more interesting as it exchange then as the store value it's it can do amazing things in terms of velocity just getting money from one place to another and it's not about the big move since what's even more fascinating is the small movement so for example i take tips on twitter and without knowing these people they can send me a quarter like zero dollars and twenty five cents or zero dollars and ten cents twitter instantly yeah you can't even do that with any other payment system because it costs so much to move money and enables all of these little tiny tiny transactions and they add up you know
and it's it's fun to have to be able to connect with people that way and it's direct unlike say like a pay pal situation where you have to give them a piece of the action yeah not just that i mean is it requires no prior arrangements of any kind they don't need to create an account i don't need to create an account i can just put up my back when the dresses are receiving things now if you paid taxes on bitcoin does i mean how do you sort it out over the course of a year because the the dollar value of it goes up and down yeah how do you figure out like when you make taxes do you do it at the current rate the day you file it i mean how do you do that well first of all we're still trying to figure that out it's being about a month since the irs a release of information on how they want to tax it in their taxing it like a commodity which means capital gains so you have to account for the price when you bought it and then the price when you sold it and then look at the difference in a few games you you pay tax on capital gains tax on earth if you lost you you
can account for capital losses that seems like if people were smart they would buy up a shit load of bitcoin and then sell like right before and fucking crash the market and then pay their taxes and then by and then you'd can just keep winning yeah the it's a big enough that you can't really play those kinds of games dude always it's going to get complicate are is that a possibility could you do that and if i just violate the law another very insider trading never got confused the it's the markets pretty huge right now so the on daily basis 10s of thousands of bitcoin move around so unless you were able to bring very big amount to bear you can't really do you can't move these markets artificially you'd have to like some bill gates type character to do that and and it would be difficult there are far more liquid markets to do that you know if you want to play games like michael plan lessons and some p five hundred with frontrunner in high frequency trading
that's what's going on that's where the big games are being played this is small stuff they have to make those stock market illegal they really do this shit you got good two about saying that it's important to not look at it as an investment because there's some kind gross about those kind of investments like when you find like something got in a stock early like some tech company and then maybe like three hundred million bucks like for no fucking reason wait a minute what is what it is how did you would you do have where's that money coming from i don't get it its way too volatile because it's a growing technology it's a brand new technology is still being tested it's way too all the tile and for the average investor that means is way too risky now there are some investors sophisticated in masters who have a broad portfolio and who may want to take a small part of that portfolio and put it into a very high volatility in
testament in order to churn some returns out but they would do that in a very knowing exactly how much risk they're taking which is a lot and balancing out that risk over bigger portfolio but your average person no this is definitely not the kind of thing you want to be playing with use it to do try actions hold it for long term playing with this market will only get you burned there's this this real temptation to try to day trade this market and a lot of people fall for that temptation i played with it when i first started with bitcoin learn that lesson pretty fast so you if you are day trading a how would you work that out you would say you buy up a bunch of bitcoin and then in the price hit a significant margin like got to a high enough level you like you know what i think we just hit the lid sell it and then you sell it my little so high it's a simple rule but the problem
you never know where high is and you never know when low isn't most people essentially end up falling for the basic psychology of panic and greed and so they end up actually buying high because of greed and so laying low because of panic and then they end up flipping that equ and and losing a lot of money don't do it i mean it's really not worth it this is a very interesting technology treating it like penny stock and trying to greedily make money off it will only get your burn well spoke it is a true believer i i agree with you on that i think that's cool that you you stressed that what i keep hearing about this mount gax monkey in the news around this guy is constantly in the news what are they going to do with that dude and for folks who don't know explained if they haven't heard the earlier podcasts explain with this mount cock situation is so
first of all there's no mount and here's the interesting story this started out as a trading site for cards for playing cards called magic the gathering online exchange which everybody knows and no offense to magic the gathering fans you guys are fucking dorks there's no offense no fat so i'm a dork too is a lot working this to a lot of things that i enjoy but you guys are fucking serious dorks ann that was the basis for the original mount gax site and the domain yes and then it became this exchange one of the biggest exchanges in the world for bitcoin but not secure not it it properly just a wreck well the thing is empty boxes i like to call it which kind of rhymes with empty cox because they he is just an acronym it's not a mountain it started off as we're trading sites and it offered something really important and valuable in the early days of it
point when you were trading locally among individuals there was no price discovery mechanism there was no way to figure out how much a bit coin was worth because there was no liquid market so if i if i bought some big coin from you we have to figure out what price we were both comfortable with and maybe would ask somebody else well how much did you buy it for and that's how you discover the price right because if there isn't a a really big liquid market you don't know what the prices was it more stable then no it was even more volatile because i keep in mind at the time bitcoin was trading for thousands of a penny or pennies so you could basically by one thousand bitcoin for a dollar in europe says wow that would be worth like one hundred grand now or something close to it i thought it would be worth half a million it's now half a million wow i'm so behind the price doubt is the price of bitcoin now i was way off i think it three
yeah i wasn't sure beats being down what's the lowest it's been like in recent times i'm so last year at this time it jumped from about one hundred to two hundred and sixty six and then dropped again down to fifty so at some point last year was fifty and then in the mean time it's five hundred then it went all the way up to about one thousand maybe one thousand one hundred on some markets really and then it dumped all the way down to eight hundred stayed there for a bit and then it dumped all the way down to five hundred and then it had a brief period flirting with thirty seven and then it went back out i mean so here's what's happening every couple every few weeks china started back in april of last year the china market opened up in sorry in november of last year the china market open bitcoin price shut up and then china said you were thinking of banning it and the price crashes and then but maybe we
don't ban it's in the price rises but maybe will ban it if the price crashes and we've been playing this is it and is it not ban does it pansit not bands for the last five months and it's been a roller coaster in the end it really doesn't matter i mean so for folks at all know what we're talking about this don't docks thing it was this online exchange that it turned out someone somehow weather was an inside job or not someone somehow was stealing money to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of bitcoin took all of the money in their change one hundred percent of it like eight thousand five hundred and ninety percent of it oh my god so someone somewhere stole an insane amount of money but you're not hearing about some wild manhunt to get to that money if it was like there was a guy named lee murray and lee murray was a mixed martial arts fighter from the uk who is a real crazy man he was like is while as they come he was like a real
my version of a character from a guy ritchie movie guy was nuts you fly in the ufc it was a really good fighter to fight anderson silva in cage rage mean high level guy and he was also a fucking thug like super legit criminal and he was a part of a huge multimillion dollar bank heist with they came in with fucking ski masks and bulletproof vests and you know high powered rifles and machine guns the full deal like full black ops like like a movie and they we have security cameras of these guys and then somehow or another they all got nabbed and this guy lee murray was one of the ones they chased after the hardest he went to morocco who's hiding there and he got arrested there for he got arrested there for like kidnapping so i'm gonna be totally after he did the bank job these guys are fucking maniac right but the point is
there was a fucking manhunt it was all over the newspapers in the uk it was everywhere they were going after these mother fuckers it seems to me like the amount of money that was stolen in mount gax is commensurate to this or it's bigger bigger but here this is a really big are yeah i think how much is how much who is the uk bank let me find out nobody knows exactly how much is gonna cox but it's somewhere between six and eight hundred million oh my god it is bigger but here's the thing bernie madoff stole twenty billion dollar twenty billion with a b and there wasn't a manhunt there because the real truth is that if you want to rob a bank what you do is you go get a banking license then you drop the bank using a key board instead of a machine gun using loopholes no one starts a manhunt that way that's
the modern way of doing bank heist san that's the way that doesn't get you shot shots and nets you the biggest return but when you're crazy criminal though and you don't know how to work keyboard that well i mean you gotta be gotta be l33t right pull that shit off so this cox thing someone somewhere has stolen let's put a number you say eight hundred million dollars or no nobody knows it's a hundred million dollars it's somewhere between five hundred and eight hundred i think let's just say it's one hundred million dollars let's give it with several super conservative and say it's one hundred million dollars for currents at the current bitcoin price if someone stole one hundred fucking one million dollars worth of money one hundred million dollars with a dime
i'm missing when a man hunt there would be for that person but is something like that or or stolen and go missing in the banking system and in government affairs all the time and there's no man hunt i mean this is fairly typical of what happens these a white collar crimes it's about records and for frenzic accounting analysis and drawn out cases where they tried to figure out what happens the bottom line is every year about one hundred or more banks fail spectacularly and the money this and this was just another bank failure it really had very little to do with bitcoin it was a bank failure of the very traditional kind this was not a system that used bitcoin to protect its security it was a systems that collected all of the bitcoin and one big account and then lost that so it's essentially the account was robbed in the account just happen to be holding bitcoin actually the dollar dollars account to
dollars involved as well the currency accounts in the banks were also how much was that for some dollars missing i don't know it was a fifty a lot less she's all my money to man it was a few million it was a few million or maybe 10s of millions but but it wasn't like hundreds so yeah here's the thing like you have a bit coin wallet right that means you control the keys and that's the essence of bitcoin is that individuals control them they don't have a bed think they don't have their money in a bank where someone else has custody of it and then they just have a little i owe you know that says you have this much in the bank and maybe will give it to you when you come to that my next question so now cox did not have individual account bitcoin accounts for the users they took the bitcoin and then put it all into one of their own accounts and and managed it so they took it out of the security of each person having their own keys and instead collected all the money in one big
wallet that's crazy why would they do that what's the benefit of that well there is this instinct to implement the same types of centralized banking institutions and here's the thing when you have that much money under the control of an individual on an organization soc then builds all of these regulatory institutions because they figured out that when you do that those institutions those organizations those individuals steal the money again and again when you put one person in charge of the money they feel the money that's what power corrupts absolute power perhaps absolutely and there is no more powerful corrupting influence than money so when you have people who have millions in their control bad things happen someone this fucks off with it they just figure out a way to do it right or their sloppy with their security and somebody else rob them but in either case all of the
banking regulations we have our to stop the fact that individuals control too much money from stealing that money bitcoin is a different solution the idea is instead of collecting all the money in one big bucket you have each user controlling their own money you don't put it in a bank you don't concentrate the risk and that way say you don't need all of these elaborate controls because you don't take the control of the money away from the individual you leave it in the hands of the individuals or mount cox took it away of the control individuals but then didn't have any of the regulatory institutions that we traditionally have in banking so they weren't using the pic when security and they weren't using the traditional banking regulations and not it's the back then they were in this gray area in between they had all of the control over the money and none of the protections what the that's ridiculous
yes that is a very big house named rosalie competence as well i mean like really really bad management of really bad coding really bad technology use just gross incompetence of an unbelievable scale i mean you think with all of that money that hire some competent people but the incompetent started at the top well you look at the guy at the top and his dumb fat face look at that fucking dummy look at that you guys never been good at anything i'll tell you are right now got with a dumb fat face like that and if you have a dumb fat face and you're smart i apologize apologize right now i have a dumb face too he plays magic the gathering yeah he doesn't just play he owns a fucking online exchange or he actually from someone else how much therefore i don't know i mean there was some kind of this goes way back in the early days but here's the thing mark kerr policy the guy you just showed it photo was a big fat face sure
i don't i don't know him personally i never met him but he provided of really critical service at a time when pat quinn desperately needed he provided a market where people could buy and sell bitcoin in a transparent way and for the first time you had to pick one pricing you can figure out how much of a quote was worth because there were lots of people trading it in there for the price that they settled on over thousands of trades was price discovery you you need that to the market to front so now you had a price and for many years the empty box price were what is the price of bitcoin alright so will it stop calling him big fat face but then letscom poor bastard okay so poor bastard starts out good starts out good everything's going great he helps out a lot of people by letting them abbas a price yeah which were made a huge difference for bit coin i mean that was the first time you had a liquid market where people could actually trade not just face to face but but could exchange of various currencies for a bit coin and i was incredibly important with
without empty box so he's essentially the just a symptom of a growing market that he just wasn't prepared for like as if like here's a perfect example if i was running something i'm dummy like when it comes to computers i'm a real dummy so if i was running some sort of online exchange and somehow another it started trading bitcoin and then i saw i started seeing hundreds of mil the dogs i would i would have to bring people in i would to bring in like financial experts and coding experts have to try to anybody experts but i'm busy as fuck man i wouldn't probably do it right i would probably fuck it up just the way poor bastard fucked it up yeah so can't really blame him except his finger out well here's the thing there is fuck you back buddy there's a chance we don't so if this was just gross mismanagement or also fraud
not going to go as far as say poor bastard because there is a good chance that he he heard a lot of people very badly and there's there's a chance that he was culpable big fat face you mother and daughter but at same time it's is classic story of someone who was in question that was way over their head and then they tried to handle it without asking for help and then it snowballed and they tried to cover up some mistakes by trying to cover up by making bigger mistakes and then bigger mistakes and then bigger mistakes how do you try to cover it up well on site so some money was taken in a earlier incidents from the system and then i think he tried to cover up the lack of money by essentially generating more fees from from the customers
and you know paying for the previous los by bringing in new customers and trying to stay ahead of the loss which by the way you we've seen this again and again to bernie madoff movie essentially was running a mini pyramid scheme right and permits version of it pyramid schemes are very rarely intentional nobody it's hard to say i'm going to run a pyramid scheme what happens is they take a bath they lose on that bet and then they tried to cover up the fact that they lost by bringing in more people and the as long as i stay ahead of this is not going to bite me and then it gets bigger and bigger we saw that with trade in i think it was one of the swiss banks who who was essentially trading bigger and bigger bets in order to cover up previous mistakes and getting further out until eventually it all collapsed and we've seen this happen again and again it's really trying to cover up an early mistake by may
sing a bigger mistake and then it snowballs well i have seen legit pyramid schemes i had a guy was a coach a boxing gym try to talk me into a pyramid name i mean he was describing it in the dumbest way ever he was describing a pyramid scheme he's like a bunch of p put the money in and then uh hey i got money out so i got these rims on my truck and i was like what are you doing here you invest you know you put money in the new people come in and then you know you could take money out of the new people coming out with the pyramid scheme do you know what you're saying he didn't know what a pyramid scheme was well i learned that lesson in seventh grade it's a very loose my school buddies were running a little candy pyramid scheme candy is basically it was candy was what like the the th we had one of those canteen is where you could buy doughnuts and things like that so it's kind of like a doughnut been a pyramid scheme based on the school
cantina where but they actually drew it on the on the blackboard as as an airplane where you sit at the front and then two people sit behind you and then four people sit behind you wow and then it was kind of like it was called the airplane and it was basically a permit game that some kid had heard from somewhere and introduced into the class and then uh teacher sat us down and said this is what a pyramid scheme is and this is why you're not allowed to do this in the school disease does it is the way you'd want to like find out where that guy is now i mean if he was doing that with candy back then what i can creep boys in of avon i would like to send him a thank you cards they had a verbal life financial education i mean what a valuable lesson to learn early and then not fall for it again that is so true yeah especially because you got to see it in an actual form not like some sort of abstract less and that someone is teaching you got to see it actually play out in like low i get it eight hundred people the school it fizzles out pretty cool
if you run out of suckers really really fast right so it only lasted i think about two weeks before the whole thing came crashing down but it was a fantastic demonstration in real life and the closed controlled environments and the only losses were really to the collapse of the local donut economy that's funny my who came to me i explained to him that it was a pyramid scheme and he still try to sell me on it he's like no i'm telling you what you should do it you should put your money i'm like what are you saying like i just explained to you what this is a pyramid scheme you know a pyramid scheme is like people get ripped off you're not going to be ok i gotta go but this was a pyramid scheme almost like just to cover up incompetence and then it sort of snowballed like a lie that you couldn't help and then
that lie you may have got bunch other lies to cover that line then uh well keep in mind i'm speculating this is based on the information we have right now we've seen that there were a couple of failures early on and then it seems like he was trying to cover up for those we don't know yet we don't know whether not she was a part of it as well right we don't know how much was stolen by outside people he certainly did try to cover losses though but we don't know if those losses occurred because he lost a keys to coin and essentially lost the money or if it was stolen or if it was embezzled or if it was whatever we don't know and there's now parallel prosecutions happening both in japan and in the united states to find the answers to that here's the interesting thing we're going to find out the answers to that because bitcoin uses a public ledger and those forensic evidence sprinkled in the bitcoin transaction leisure that
allows us to track exactly what happens this is the most transparent financial system so we're going to get some really interesting answers so will be well the final who has it we not really but we're going to be able to find out what happened when it happens i mean you what happen when it happened but you can't find out where it went and you can't track it id address right can i track ip addresses through bitcoin you can or can't can't cannot cannot no you can so there's no way to figure out where that stuff went where the bitcoins went not really not really but you can see when it went out of accounts that were known to be controlled by cox and so you can rebuild a timeline here is the other thing that's not going to happen mount cox didn't get bailed out mount cox didn't get zero percent interest loans from the central bank in order to pretend there solvent when they're not mount cox didn't make deals with other banks to cover up their losses by collateralizing them in cdo's mount cox did
get to acquire some of the failing banks add them to their asset sheet and then pretend that they were not failing mount cox didn't get to bailey in all of the customers of bitcoin across the entire economy mount gax didn't get too hyper inflate the currency in order to save themselves but destroy the economy no so those things happened after two thousand and eight hold on a second what you're saying sounds exactly like when with our economy yeah a whole lot wait a minute wait a minute this guy in trouble oh yeah can where is he he white people he might be one of the few examples of bankers going to jail really this which doesn't happen very often it really happens in two cases it happens so the two small fish who can't get out of the folk of justice him the look of justice i love it or it
opens for those who steal money from very very rich people can't do that bernie madoff didn't sleep dennis the old millions of mortgages from people know he stole money from very very rich people you can't get away with that i see do you think that this guy hiding like is he in japan right now there's extradition request they know where he is i believe so yeah how is no one killed him i mean you would say this guy with hundreds of millions of dollars like every step that guide takes you must looking over his shoulder does he still look like that i shaved my head and grow big tate beard yeah very first of all japan japan has very very few very low incidences of violent crime there's no it's too many weapons around the the culture is not like that and then the other culture which is geeks like me i mean you know
and trying to attack someone and cause them harm i'd have to reach for an ass man hey four times in the process of committing a crime but it seems like a guy like you could figure out a way to code an app for your phone that controls a drone shoot missiles i mean i would i would thank you to the people like you be the worst people the fun not motivated enough i don't know but you're not motivated no but you didn't lose hundreds of millions of dollars is cat like what if you had a hundred in dollars in that eight hundred plus whatever it was that disappeared have one hundred million dollars you know whatever plus this was all yours there would be fucking bloody for serious and there are a lot of people who are very upset and very hurt by this situation and a lot of people who lost a lot of money including it had a ripple effect you got to realize that many bitcoin businesses had money in accounts there so that los then affected the cash flow of of other
when businesses that suffered and charities many charities that lost money in an empty box oh wow so so a business like say like one that i keep hearing about is tigerdirect tigerdirect which is a pretty huge computer company over start over dot com both of those who use bitcoin yeah that's interesting overstock keep hearing things about overstock yeah they generally don't have much exposure because they don't they here's the thing people who are using it as an exchange so when you have excess bit coin move it in their cell if at all as with the dollars out he just in and out right first is storing the bit going there as a wallet and giving them full control of that and just leaving piles a bit coin there those were the ones most affected and some of the day traders who had to have piles of brick lane there so they could trade very quickly those were very affected but people who just move money in and out you know maybe they lost that days take an end if you look at it merchants like the ones you
mentioned they don't leave stashes of bitcoin around they're going to exchange that pretty quickly they're going to move out of the exchange if they're smart so the exchange it for dollars and then they move ok now how much can you actually store on your phone like your phone like if you want store a million dollars with bitcoin could you put it on your phone you could store trillion dollars worth of bitcoin you could store whatever you want i mean there is no one case you lose your phone jesus fucking christ you have your phone connected to your wrist and all wrapped around your waist with chains and that would be a supremely dumb and bad idea to do but you can make backups of bitcoin which you can do with regular money you can have multiple copies you can encrypt those copies so you can do a lot of things to protect yourself against los can you have some wallets like can you have like your main wallet and then like have like a sub wallet that has a completely different like passcode or way to get in a bunch of wallets right yeah you can actually make a whole tree structure of wallets so why didn't
this this company this in k or whatever it's called you got yeah why didn't they just having a load a sub wallets you know to protect each individual user instead of putting it into one is that that that goes to the gross incompetence start contact earlier so that's not how there are the this is also have custodial account over big coin and the implements very smart systems to segregate big points of for example on a daily basis they will sweep ninety five to ninety eight percent of the bit coin off into wallets the require three out of six people to come together to unlock them with the key separated on separate devices in those systems are very difficult to break right because you need collusion between multiple people and that protects both from external theft but it also protects from inter
compromise a malicious insider or an embezzlement fraud even by the sea sometimes so there are ways to to get around this you can have good security practices and all of those good security practices were completely ignored by mark carpet so he's a fuckhead head no matter what yeah i is so that the question really now is gross incompetence or fraud and we don't know but in either case it's bad it hurt a lot of people but in the end it had nothing to do with pat quinn it was a classic bank failure of the traditional kind that it was the result of the fact that they fell into a area where they didn't have the protections of bitcoin and they didn't have the regulations a regular bank so this guy lives in japan did he move to japan when the shit hit the fan or was either the entire time he was he was there the entire time so he's always lived in japan that's where docs was based yeah interesting empty box i love it
and so empty docs now is insolvent is it done i mean there was something they were trying to do some kind of structured thing and then i think it was four five days ago the japanese authorities decided to decline and fall them into liquidation they are now done empty boxes over the one thing we can say about empty box is that they can no longer hurt anyone else that's a good thing now this gentleman who runs it or ran it he's walking on the streets he goes places he's just like a regular guy do they follow him i have no idea he's on he's under indictment title i don't know what his status is so he's under indictment from america and from japan correct there's and there's a warrant for him to come to the states okay so it's not as gangster as if he robbed a bank and held it up with guns like they're not they're not going
dream with like a swat team and dragging him back but most likely he's fucked will see yeah most likely yeah i mean i would be surprised if he doesn't face some kind of serious consequences you weren't that concerned though about this in the overall scheme of things for bitcoin you thought this is just sort of a bump in the road and it eventually it would be overwhelmed by the sheer positive benefits of crypto currencies well i mean i think the thing is that it didn't really affect bitcoin itself it wasn't a week is a bitcoin it was in fact a very strong arguments for why you need to decentralize financial institutions 'cause when you centralized them they failed in exactly this fashion that's what we're trying to change about financial services make more decentralized diffuse the power so it can't be corrupted and compromised there are going to be more i'll tell
right now there are going to be more bank failures both in bitcoin and of course as they happen every single here by the hundreds that are going to be bank failures in every currency including bitcoin there are going to be ceos who run away with the money until we implement better solutions to control the power so for example if you've got a start up and they raising money in bitcoin you don't give all of the keys to one person use you split them among multiple people so that one because the person you think you so who's your cherished's partner in this venture and you've known all your life and your childhood friends when they have access to a couple one million dollars they change people change their dramatically in radically affected by money and then all you need is a precipitating event an illness in the family a crisis you know a bad thing happening to that person and they will grab them run run people make very poor decisions they still tell you the hey man i needed it right and
rationalize it or they'll make a mistake day trading making a loss or losing some of the money and then trying to cover it up whatever it is you know my advice to bitcoin come this is when you're starting out look at the person sitting next to you do not assume you can trust them assumes that people are fallible and then put in place controls so that's no single person can run away with and then you're going to be much more secure and everybody will be able to be above board david seaman who's on the podcast last week had a really interesting take on bitcoin that i thought was kind of funny he was saying that if if like bank of america for site if they were smart that they would get involved in bitcoin he was like you already have this established name brand like crypto currencies going to be here there they're here to stay this is his take he's like why can you capitalize on the name brand that you've already built in on getting on the mark and quick get it
now in the early days an established like that bank of america like still has like a footing in and in this as well as in regular money and he was like it would be a really wise investment i i think you're going to see that happening in short time really we saw this with the internet which was at first the telecommunications companies fault tooth and nail they could not believe that a decentralized packet switched networks like the internet would deliver quality voice and quality video they wanted to build highly controlled and structured networks they tried to fight it because it threatens and long distance market which was very lucrative it threatened many other markets today three slash four of all internet
phone calls have known skype three slash four three quarters that's that's market that few you know two decades ago was one thousand five hundred and twenty billion dollar market and disappeared and essentially they had to restructure operations now they made up for it the smart ones became very good as internet service providers and created whole new businesses that replace those lost revenue so so what happened there is you have these telecom companies trying to fight it until saw so the smaller ones some of the ones that don't have solid entrenched positions and and take advantage of size thank you know what maybe i'm going to come from this heard and go play without bitcoin a bit as soon as that starts happening there's almost a stampede because everybody tries to rush into it that's what happens with telecommunications a smaller providers started peeling off from the herd and instead of fighting it they started
trying to build service providers so it's really just a matter of who runs first like someone's going to start running and then and then the heart breaks apart because until the first one breaks everyone's like well were too serious for this bit coin stuff and their look over their shoulder trying to make sure that everybody else is also staying different but eventually the market dynamic changes so it it's just essentially it's just human nature like with human nature is to certain rules that it is always going to be in the place play hard to get and fall leader those are two big ones yeah ends big queen threatens some business structures within the banking industry admit it's gonna make it difficult for them to charge exorbitant fees to do international wire transfers when you can do it cheaper just
like if you have skype you can't justify three dollars a minute long distance calls rent and bought at the same time the smart bankers a looking at this and they're saying yeah but if we have are cheap efficient secure payment system we can build some really interesting things on top of that and create a whole new businesses that are very competitive that can actually give us a lead so we get out ouch run the word the you know disruption in a competitive market is actually very very enticing to the to the second and third tier players because they don't have an advantage there too small to compete against the big guys but if they see this disruptive technology think well maybe if i hitch a ride on that item can overtake everybody ends you know i can be the blockbuster
or i can be the netflix i can be the tower records or i can be the itunes and we've seen this happen in technology races before yeah that's fascinating how people some people just don't want to buck the trends they do you don't want to go along with the flow of things or they want to buck the trends they want to somehow or another figure out a way where you know they can prove everybody else wrong and vhs is making a comeback renting movies is still valid you know there's a lot of those fuckers out there that just won't let it go radio comp change is scary yeah this scary but that's that's the nature of the beast especially today
involved in the craziest time for change the world is ever known yeah um there are at the moment being on the top of an industry specially an industry that's involved in technology is a very precarious position if you talk to kodak a decade ago do you think they would they would realize that suddenly the largest vendor or manufacturer of cameras in the world would be a telephone company nokia nokia within three years became the those largest maker of cameras and suddenly the int tire industry changed right and how do you compete against they're not even in your industry they just came out of left field it's like you're suddenly the horse buggy manufacture and forward is taking your business and you never expected that was going to happen will nokia has a camera phone now a windows phone that is
some insane amount of pixels is like forty fucking mega pixels or something something credit forty one forty one mega pixel says jamie jamie's on top of that shit forty one fucking mega pixels on a phone i mean this thing i think has the note three i think it has twelve or something i think no it's better than that are you familiar with moore's law yes so for for your listeners to moore's law it was created by cordon more prof processors right processing speed and yeah and what he said was that he estimated that because of the way silicon works every eighteen months the speed of a computer would double for the price would drop by half and that's has been true now for more than twenty five years wow an that th then plays out in camera mega pixels in storage on sd cards in the size of the of your smart phone in
a number of sensors you can put into the smart phone and its battery battery life is the one that's lagging behind and it's the main thing that's holding back this technology moore's law also applies to things like bitcoin it also applies to net looks like the internet and what it means is that if you're in an industry that's established and some of you have a competitor that's coming at you with the power of moore's law you better watch out because you're in it's not a matter of whether you will be able to compete decade it's a matter of whether your industry will still exist in the decade right right yeah it's fascinating that whole industries can just vanish one hundred and fifty kodak and then suddenly film doesn't exist gone ok do you remember when you used to have to pay money for long distance you know long distance calls don't exist like you can call now work right now in your home phone and its regular calling your cell phone it's totally normal like if you used
call long distance on a cell phone it was an exorbitant amount of money satur afternoons london pay phone when i was a student i would go their way stack of coins that was probably about ten dollars worth in today's money i would sit in a pay phone and my family would know what time i was going to call coordinated i'd call they'd be a line of fifteen relatives sitting standing behind the phone on the athens side and it be hi mom i love you very much hi dad i love you very much hey sis it's all awesome ok next and aunt maria julianne you know london's awesome and i'm stuffing coins as fast as i can into this pay phone and then you know four five minutes later ten dollars down the drain and i said hello to the entire family and that's all i could afford is my experience and now you could skype for hours for free not crazy you could look at a video of each other talking to each other through your laptop for free wow
listening fasting times when you put in that kind of a perspective you really sort of understand the change they just the ability that we have to reach out to each other is just unprecedented in human history it's never been even remotely close to what it is now i saw somebody walking down the street the other day skyping with someone while they were walking on the street and they were talking while they're walking down the street they like yeah so we're going to blow up other person on the other end i'm looking at their phone and like this is crazy they're doing it through a cell phone connection i'm doing all the time now yeah walking down the street through a cell phone connection streaming video back and forth to each other it's amazing amazing what do you think about things like is there a reason why apple doesn't have any apps where you can exchange bitcoin they have some bitcoin monitoring apps correct they basically banned any apps that allow you to run a wallet
to do transactions is there a reason for that i mean is there like can you find la your goal if you try to take devil's advocate and there's there's three or four reasons and i can give them from the obvious to the to the cynical and paranoid first of all i think they are worried about this strange technology that they don't know anything about and the word about what kind of reputation hit they'll take of one of these apps is compromised um and cause their customers to lose money right i'm more worried than google who allow all of these applications on google play so it's not a legal thing because google has lawyers to and they're quite happy to allow packwood applications and apple does not like it that's the obvious answer all then there is another thing when whenever you spend money on buying an app or buying something inside the nap apple takes like thirty percent
so their own payment system through the app store and itunes and all of these things jenn creates an enormous amount of revenue because they take a very big cuts of these things now if you could put a wallet in the phone then you could also put a wallet and a nap then you could also do bitcoin transactions in a nap then why give apple thirty percent cuts if you can just i pass them into all the payments through that do you think the debts ultimately going to be apples demise though i mean if you look at you want to talk about like people that had a grip on a market then it slowly slipped away apple had an enormous chunk of the smart phone market just a few years ago i mean they had the majority of it now eighty ten percent of the smart phones are android phones that's crazy i mean that's quite amazed and the technology is surpassed them now you have several choices with android phones that are waterproof the giant ones the sony experia you could throw it under water for a fucking half an hour like
in feet of water for half an hour i mean the galaxy s5 the new one water did you take a shower with it and listen to music you could put a fucking stuff it in your underwear and literally shower with the thing on i mean finger sensors they had the first on iphones but now samsung galaxies as five has a fucking heart rate monitor i mean there's they're just there ahead of the curve like the android phones aren't playing catch up with apple anymore now there by passing him and i wonder if that's going to happen with things like i tune exchanges things right now is convenient to use itunes but once i switched over to android i found the thing called double twist where you could send your music to your phone you could use itunes with this thing and also uh amazon mp3 which it's just as easy to use if
easier than itunes i change this a horrible application i can't stand it if you put it on your mac and you get a pinwheel every time you click on anything especially if you have a large collection it's and it hasn't really changed or improved much at all but does ask you to accept the terms and conditions every time you sneeze you have to click on that thing is like listen apple i've accepted the ur so i haven't read them no ones read them but i accept them accept them forever just give me a check box that says from now on until the end of time i accept i accept please just do a retina scan every time i look at your app assume i'm accepting i like the itunes for some things i use it still to buy movies i use it on my laptop exclusively i use it in my home computer exclusively
like if i'm buying music i buy my music and i buy it all through that but on my phone it's just as easy to buy it through amazon very simple it's not it's not like some new thing you have to learn same process search a genre christian artist oh i wanted to buy like we were in the green room the other day at the orlando hard rock me and joey diaz and joey diaz goes on this epic rant about led zeppelin led zeppelin one 'cause there was a poster on the wall that i took a picture and i put it up on my instagram and it was the first tour poster from led zeppelin in one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight sixty nine and we were like could you fucking imagine what that must have been like to experience like zeppelin for the first time like back then like and joey was going off about how blew people away so it listening to him i get inspired i go to my phone as he's talking within like ten seconds i type led zeppelin in a search boom it's downloading three seconds after that bam
i'm playing the album i mean like wow that's crazy i put it on speaker we sit down and we start laugh and about how easy that is to do and how amazing this music is yeah exactly i apple change the way we think about the music change the way we think about phones and created all of these need to apologies but here's the this happens again again and technology as part of the let me give you the context by the way itunes store is not loading right now just to show you pinwheel it's been willing right now i clicked it as you as you brought that up i said let's see and i clicked it it's fucking not loading so what happens with technology again and again is that you always have to make this tradeoff do you want to have an experience that's very tightly controlled and therefore consistent right you combine a very limited set of hardware very limited set of features but what you get is the
works every time consistently and then you can have this kind of wild west situation as you do with android and at first it creates a law fragmentation and everything is inconsistent and it doesn't work very well but overtime here's what happens the controlled situation that gave you the advantage it first starts lagging behind innovation 'cause it can't change fast enough and the wild west starts getting better and better quality until eventually it wins and we've seen this happen over time and then the the control situation has to open up the borders again let everybody flood in to a lot of fragmentation and experimentation in the cycle starts again that's going to happen to i mean we're we're going to see much more openness in music we're gonna see more openness and phones as a result of this and then apple will have to actually go out and invent some
thing you instead of just you know small incremental changes apple shits bothering you mad bother me bothering maine what it's fifty two percent i android in forty one percent apple really is that when i read there was a easy that's a i read eighty somewhere and apple still has sold more applications it's apples sold fifty app fifty million apps i think or something like that an android it's up to forty eight million app so it also what's bothering you about it man eighty one percent men on cnet cnet says android dominates eighty one percent of the world smart phone market yeah that's the global versus i think what you quoted as us and it's a very different market as well let's look at it globally so ably smartest way bigger android that was in vancouver this weekend and i had to use my android phone completely only using my and before no no iphone at all and it i do
not understand people that say at the android phone is better in any way the camera as for why try to take so many photos using that camera and this is the note three that has like a really nice camera that camera is a piece of hi all all samsung does is add a bunch of crap to their phones to be the first but they do it so half that it it just doesn't work like that so like you keep on saying this that i heartbeat sensor and that the thumb print it is one of the worst input into it like that the thumb print the new s five is horrible people are saying it's the dumbest thing ever that it never works it it's just a piece of well that's exactly the compromise yeah i need to have control and tied quality but it's slow or you have speeds but it's you know at first it's flaky would be the first
but say hey you're right you know this iphone is a piece of shit i still buy all the newest phones just because i'm looking just like everyone else to find something better but man i you can't break this thing being quality like it's always working you had the best photos you can possibly all the apps are perfect i definitely agree with you on the photos there's a big difference between the iphone photos and the android photos i think the sensor the sensor on the iphone is a lower megapixel but much higher quality is just a better phone but like what is a mega pics on iphones eight eight eight easel forget lenses and things like that yes make a huge difference carl zeiss lens yeah some back like it's actually thirteen megapixels on the galaxy note three but it's not as good it's fine if the light is good are you talking to me you know microphone are you mother fucker i can't hear you what you doing
which makes sign language at me can't hear that either the i mean i think there is a better camera than the iphone but it's not the note three i think there is a better one sure there is a better camera but i'm just saying let's find out what's the best let's google best smart phone camera i bet apples in the top two there is so reports saying that you know why it's such a big share is not because of quality it's because of price that android users are more poor and they get more technology for the money so that's why it's become so popular because all the poor markets are buying it so it looks like android just destroying apple in that in that regards but it not meaning that it's a better product best part of on camera overall iphone five s it's the mass market audience especially in in asia where you can get an android phone for fifty to a hundred dollars instead of three to four hundred dollars a
quivalence for yeah iphone image stabilization and dual eli d flash you got one of the best phones for taking pictures in low light or any situation apple has improved its camera app for the 5s what's the difference though it does like photos are slow mo picture i'd say when the coolest things i i think you could do this on android also it's burst mode but by being able to do and i didn't even know i had if you just hold down the camera it just takes a million photos so like a year like with like say like you want a picture of joe rogan you just sit there hold down the camera it was and take like three hundred photos of you and then you can just choose which one you didn't blink and stuff like that i do miss the camera that's one thing i meant but i don't miss that little bitchy screen that will the jail june that so i have to wait yeah allegedly but so four dot seven one the five dot fifty one is not going to be for a long time it's september sources you were you a mac insider with the fuck do you know boy and this humongous ipads coming out yeah that's all good dude but this i'll take it every day i'll take
at all day is not important the cameras not nearly as important to me as being able to do my email go online everything plays flash anything that has flash on it plays no problem i that to me is gigantic we look at a youtube video and it's that god damn big to me that's huge and also the stylus i fucking love this thing are you yeah i never use it every time i use the stars like i'm just wasting my time one eight why am i doing this well i i use a lot for writing my joke right that's that's interesting that you do that too because that's it seems so much i don't know i'm just so fast on the keyboard that yeah i mean it's not the fast thing for me it's a memorization thing when you actually write things physically with your hand you can remember them better and this tick for a long time i was still bringing the notebook as well but i gave up on the note
i do it all on this thing now i statements insists i pie ipad air i've been taking my i pad almost everywhere and that now i don't give a about my phone this is for texting me pad or brought my i might had might buy their pod yeah this thing is so light and like you could just keep it everywhere in like if you really want to surf the net you know even the new one the small one yeah is a good move but you can put in your pocket yeah i don't just you know i honestly just don't trust the apps in the app store and the google apps and the back doors in the hacking hack ability of the opera system back to me i think this is the way the iphone is just a brick and then see the gear important stuff your text messages and your crap like that should have the highest security not something that so easily been had so right here this comparison between control quality but slow innovation versus speed
choice fragmentation but flaking this and we're security problems and cutting edge that choice is playing out in many areas of technology whether it's an and distrust played out on the internet for our first which was the idea that the internet was a far inferior network to the carefully control old if you like it the phone companies were doing the iphone of networks right and right and it was like this scrappy massey android of networks but over time it can to innovate and get better and the other systems got slower and slower and lice innovative and so the close systems have that problem they lag but they offer you much better control and quality in security at first so here's the thing that's been happening in finance and in finance it's much worse because the close control systems of the banks have existed for hundreds of years
and this scrappy new bitcoin thing which is not as cast in many cases but fast in other cases has more choice but also puts more responsibility for security it's more flaky it's more scrappy it's more versatile it gives you a hell of a lot more choice and it allows you to innovate really really fast does maybe the quality you don't have the you know the control tools security supposedly that same time the banking system is failing to deliver to consumers it's failing to deliver security because people can get away with massive theft on it and so now what we're seeing is this exact same scenario that you described but we saw with the internets versus telecom networks that we saw was iphone versus android is now playing out in finance with bitcoin that's fascinating they say that the camera for power users is that nokia nokia they had on
toms guide dot coms when i'm reading they've rated a bunch of different ones i don't know why tom really knows that shit seems like a highly rated right but the forty one mega pixel camera apparently just is just unbelievable the photos are so big that even when you zoom men like way and like you could take a photo and zoom way and it's still crop it and it's still an excellent photo yeah i'd that's about the only reason why you'd want that meeting the mega pixels though because i'm megapixel stop people stop caring about me pixels awhile ago for the most part even some of the higher end cameras is kind of stopped even though they could go bigger they i mean it's just not as important as it when it was like from one mega pixel that five mega pixels unless you're making like billboards in lesson making billboards or you really are just going to spend time just cropping out sections of large photos and even with such a small device that's in your hand i would imagine that there's a lot of blur and even if you do crop out little pieces it's still not going to be like something like if you have to try
adina dslr or something like that yeah they're saying that the galaxy s5 is a big improvement to from the note three as far as cameras go yeah yeah you get to a point of such creation where it becomes good enough you remember the time when you bought a computer based on how many giga hertz it had and how fast it wasn't needed to upgrade every year and then we reach the point probably five or six years ago when you bought a computer and then it was still perfectly fast enough for five years later and you didn't need to upgrade it anymore right or when you used to need a bigger and bigger hard drive every single here and then you reach a tb and i like well i can store everything so i'm done i don't need anymore same thing with mega pixels you reach a point where at first it makes a really big diff and then it's such a small difference that it doesn't matter anymore free saturation you have to find something else emphasize some new innovation yeah yeah
a certain point in time it's going to be very difficult for one company like a company like apple to compete with the overwhelming amount of companies that are producing android phones that's the open ecosystem that's the difference between able to innovate in multiple places versus trying to control everything and you can really see that too if you pay attention to the original android phones and what they are today as opposed to original iphone which is incredibly innovative my phone is pretty close to what they have today i mean it was very similar in size very similar and look that obviously the resolution got better camera got better got quicker it moves better has more features but the original android phones were dog share yes they were so bad do you right do you have one brian at the first one the first right yeah i have one too i was so bad i had it for one day and i brought it back in the verizon guys are trying to talk me out of it and i go nope nope nope nope nope i'm going to look take
and they're like well you don't want to bring it back like just getting did get used to it i'm telling you i really like it get this piece of shit away from me 'cause i had an iphone and i would try to switch to a droid to go on verizon at the time wolf is that what you had brown yeah here's me doing a review of though play first one for years the phone has a five mega pixel camera it's got a flash the camera is really good it has a washed out it's raining look so unfortunate and you have to uninstall look at all this seems kind of stuff you know there's something about it where you're just like why don't why don't they just copy what works you know the iphone works best way to delete applications whatever so there's a things here and there that i know it's crazy is that you know the down the line more the droid started becoming more popular they did start copping everything that i phone use and that's why they're in court right now sam sung in verses apple and
yeah what is it what is the lawsuit about do you know the specific just a lot of different things like like i like the the unlock screen i think how you unlock this you know the phone and just different like you know operating systems shade that that pretty much they just kind of just copied that apple figured out first yeah and so the the new iphone supposed come on june is that we're doing to supposedly it like the the new iphone six and then they're going to have the giant one supposedly this is what they do every year where they announce it in june and then it's like the next month they'll have you know one come out in the bigger one i guess in the other reason why they're waiting a little bit longer is 'cause the the panels that we're going be using the new phone are back ordered so much because when app start selling something new it's you know it pretty much just destroys anyone that does that you know like we make five screens while yeah apple is going to buy a five million of these so it right it's their screens are different to them like the there was a the thing that i was reading about the difference like between the htc one m8 which is like probably
the highest rated android phone right have you seen that one yeah it's pretty slick the i even read of read an actual apple website was reviewing the htc one m8 and they were saying that if apple built an android phone this would be the phone that they built it's pretty fucking slick they actually have a different approach to cameras entirely i have a small mega pixel formats are slick looking phone apparently the sound on these is incredible the sound is supposed to be amazing like literally it sounds like a little radio like a like a little boom box i think that's one big deals to that why haven't been happy with as much as the android is i really think that samsung is not actually the best maker of the phone so i think like even like these htc seemed a little bit well better put together
yeah well this one is like particularly well designed but this one only has a four megapixel or they call ultra pixel phone yeah or alter picture camera rather and i don't understand that but it has to camera lenses you see what they're doing there well you're clicking back and forth what two lenses are there's two different cameras on the back and two cameras allow you to blur out the foreground or the background if you so choose to it's pretty slick for photos i've seen the pictures but mega pixels is just the image they're just not going to be as large the real quick becomes is four mega pixels enough for phone see i think that's what its rooted phones are actually taking over cameras uh i haven't looked lately but i'm pretty sure that camera sales especially point shooters are completely other than sugar yeah i i used to buy him all the time because you know those were great to put in your pocket but now it is you don't need
yeah i have one that i use just for after shows like why i have people like line up and take pictures with them and then i put it up on my website 'cause 'cause it saves time but the the actual need for them the average person almost nonexistent unless you like one of those slr type people it has a big crazy lenzen you know all that jazz i guess that technology you were talking about like blurring the foregrounds actually built into the new android operating system that whole yeah you can do it with software the difference with the htc one is it actually does it with hardware as well and it's supposed to look slicker they have that available that uh ability to do it on the htc or not the htc the samsung galaxy s5 as well you can do that in the background i just think that what htc is decided to do is try to do it with two different cameras at the same time so is this
would you say this is the the one to do the now if you're going to get a new android or do you think the nexus right the next i love the next i like the htc one two i have to say i think both of them are great great hardware solutions then you have to really be careful about what software is load because depending on which car you get it from there going to have different quality of software this the latest kit kat or an earlier version i get my phones unlocked i wiped them and i replace the software with my own choices immediately not everybody does how hard is that how much time does it take it's not a matter i mean takes me two or three is to get everything done i mean you know not not a little time that's a lot of time and nobody does is to listen i'm a i'm a technology culture and i enjoy each versus iphone i do android to run windows versus lennix i do lennix even when it's at first dog user experience i do it anyway for the freedom and the first it's
do you have a mac laptop and i'm an early adopter on bitcoin and yeah i have a mac laptop and i run an apple on i write something crazy i run up a lot and i also run lennox machines on it too as virtual machines and so i have a combination of operating systems here but you run linux on an apple laptop you could do that yeah i know that you could do that do they still have that option to run windows on mac laptops i've got windows seven here too windows man have you lately that's so are they just going to give and start over not going to they are they still have a giant chunk of the market i love what they're doing now is that they are actually making money off still supporting windows ninety eight to banks like they were like no we give up on windows ninety eight or xp i give up on windows xp but will you know if you want to pay us will still remember when they had windows stores at the mall that didn't sell anything
they had a windows store and i went in on like you guys sell computers they go now i go what the fuck are you doing for windows you don't sell computers were windows were not computer sellers were in operating system they they sold windows you could buy windows there yeah the kustok who's running this let me talk to that guy hey dude this fucking stupid you have those cool shit like you should like have a variety of different manufacturers of really cool computers yeah me i'm wrong they have now the windows stores now sell everything would have laptops they have all that stuff the surface and still not of itself and you know i'm more interested in these these and enjoyed notebooks i someone the other day i think that's the way to go if you just want a little teeny notebook to put in your you know to check email and stuff like that maybe they did so computers and i'm wrong i think for some early windows stores that didn't it was just more like kiosks or no not yet when i went to one of 'em that's why maybe i'm wrong
remember 'cause it was quite a while ago but i remember going in and my kids were playing with like one of the things that they are recall on cio dot com four things you love about htc's once and for you won't what you want love the htc one m8 duo camera is disappointing single most important thing about ht1 is the camera the device rerf racing four megapixel pixel duo camera with ultra pixel technology stop moving today lenses allows the user to detect an calculate the relative distance of objects in the image sounds cool right well except for the measly four mega pixels doesn't take long to at all to realize that while the camera works fair well and dimly lit environment so so that was the idea they kept with the low megapixel to summer another function better environments but they
that the quality during the day is looking to be dis left to be desired say that that that what you're gonna use it most the time pride during the day it sucks okay so there's only two options that are really good if you want to go with with with phones saw that lumina the apple those are the two big ones apparently this sony xperia too for cameras there's a sony experia apparently has a pretty dope camera too so i think the reason they're putting two cameras on the back of the phone which would be interesting is where you get the ability to shoot 3d directly because if you think about it this phone is now wide enough that you can separate the cameras by about as much as your eyes are separated the focal distance and then you can shoot
direct 3d off two cameras well do you remember when they had that for awhile they had 3d photography on some of those crazy phones remember was it good enough there were really weird and it only worked on your phone it wouldn't work on a computer look at their the first the first iteration is always klucze an you know but i i like to have the yeah clu g let's close you mean it's raw if it's rough around the edges would have never used as an english word people who've you to start it's a geek word you would be hurting how dare you how dare you double it urban dictionary is it's an urban one i don't know it's a geek it's a geek term but i mean first iteration of a technology is always flaky but if it's a powerful and disruptive enough then
they'll be an incentive to make it better when when i use the first iterations of web browsers there would terrable the first versions of android they were terrible and guess what the first versions of bitcoin wallets are terra but i have choice and i love that i'd like i'd rather be on the cutting edge and be dealing with something that's rough around the edges and get to experience the technology as it matures eventually it will get to the point where it's as easy to use as an ipad which is how much got on the internet and big when we'll get to that point too i i to me choice is more important than than polish but for other people they go with the opposite choice and that's perfectly understandable that's interesting man yeah i agree with you in a lot of ways but i think that there's of a similarity to windows and apple you know as far as like apple phones and you know the whole
yeah the way apple locks things down and controls it in windows where they do and they allow you to get into the registry they allow you to do a lot of things with your computers at a lot of power users like yeah the average person might it might fuck it up and so do you think that that could possibly have well rational affect on apple's decision to not have bitcoin wallets outside of the commerce absolutely yeah so as i said you know the straight one is that it introduces risk and an invite since that is deliberately conservative about quality security and control over the environment so they're going to be slow to adopt things that are disruptive hum and it's also self serving because it threatens their payment network and it might be self serving because it also threatens their ability to introduce their own
form of digital currency additional wallets which there are a lot of rumors that they're in in working on that i i don't yeah i mean you can take all of those two heather and it makes sense but it's not a long term decision because if there's enough momentum behind digital currencies eventually they're going to add the slower everybody else but they will get there have you thought about the future and looked at like the trends the technological trends and tried to extrapolate like what would be the method for exchanging controlling bitcoin in the very near future is there like a bed their version of what these apps can provide on phones that you believe could be in invented sometime in the near future or absolutely i mean at the moment you don't want to have a lot of the raw elements of the system exposed to users who don't want to learn anything about these so right now there's a pretty steep learning curve if you want to understand
jill crypto currencies just the name alone like crypto currencies sounds so awfully geeky and weird button if you want to understand digital money let's start by renaming that right okay so it's a digital money if you want understand there's no money you get introduced these terms public key private key encryption address wallets a big pointed to yes transaction all of these are confusing terms because they don't actually mean what what they what you think they mean so a bit coin wallet is not actually a wallet because it doesn't contain coins it only contains the keys that allow you to unlock the coins the coins are actually on the network and you get into all these things where you've picked a name that name evokes a thought but that thought doesn't quite match why it's really happening so it ends up confusing rather than enlightening right so a good name
is one that tells you how this is going to work because it evokes the correct paradigm the correct user interface design and so we don't have that in bitcoin yet the words wrong the terminology is wrong the user interface and user experience is still very very geeky and you know it happened on the internet i remember watching in nineteen ninety four the classic segment on good morning america when the like so sing with the at sign is that the internet no no that's that's email and and the dots that's that's the intern and so why is there all the slashes and so what is an i p address and i don't really understand any of this right it and you get to two things one the technology gets smoother and more polished and the words get at the same time the culture changes and the culture gradually adopts the terminology
so that now people more comfortable with the weird words and the words of god less burden somewhere in the middle they meet and you get mainstream adoption are people working on trying to get any sort of a bit coin wallet reintroduced into the apple the app store because there was is one for awhile right was there more than one or is one if there was more than one and now there's more to there's new ones have been reintroduced already to the apple store yes absolutely they use a few little how do i call this loop are you a outing them or should we not say that i won't say their names at the moment but there are ways to do this then what's the point you're the fucking bitcoin jesus if you don't say their names and get promoted and they fucking die on the vine will get pulled immediately well
pulled immediately if you say there like a emulator for nintendo's like a pop up almost every day on the store it's like some backdoor into something like food cooking program if people wanted if people want to find bitcoin wallets for ios they can search for those terms and find them and essentially the other way to do it by building a pure html5 wallet the runs entirely in the browser and then it's not an app you install it's a page you visit but it's fully functional looks like and location do they have those were building those every company in the basic building one of those right now to avoid the whole app system to get around the app system and to enable users to use it through the browser and you still i have to use apples browser though correct you can't use chrome yet can you can use chrome for apple well yeah yeah
they basically if i have a chrome case never microsoft word now on ios really nice so any html five browser and that's the nice thing about html five it's the new version of the web protocol it and it will run on any browser on any device and we'll give you a full apps like experience doesn't feel like a web page it feels like an application so it's interesting that's really interesting so that will cut it all out if you can get online then you can get to this web page then you can trade bitcoin period so exact and this is what's exciting about the bit coin space for me which is that we talk about this idea that we're going to convert dollars bit coin like if only say amazon adopts bit coin then all of the stuff they're selling through bit coin will now be sold through will that be sold through big point instead of dollars in but it's like chewing out little parts of the traditional economy and just converting it into a different currency and that is boring
it is so not the point that's a bit like thinking that you know the internet succeeds in all phone calls happen on the internet and we've taken over the entire fax market and fax is dominated by internet fax and the whole point is that it made fax irrelevant it didn't replace it it made it irrelevant and then replace phone calls it gave people better communication tools and different communication tool i'm more interested in what we can do with that quinn can't be done today rather than replacing the things we already do with dollars or visa and making a better visa better pay pal a better online shopping experience that stuff is bored so he what's happening within the bitcoin economy there's now hundreds of startups and they're hiring people we have job fair in sunnyvale on may third we're going to have
hundreds of people and dozens of companies with job open openings hiring developers and designers and marketing professionals and all kinds of things like that now for those who are probably new to this market a jobs fair is this thing that happened for two thousand and eight where companies actually had jobs and would come to you in order to find you we're doing this in bitcoin becaus because of this incredible sp sort of innovation that's been unleashed so if you're an entrepreneur and you look at these rough edges and you look at these difficulties in the system and you look at the fact that it's not ready for mainstream adoption watch you she is opportunity massive opportunity becaus remember at first on the internet you couldn't find anything so someone said well how about we build search engine and now that's a multi one hundred billion dollar company right and so became an entire out
of a single problem and the problem was you couldn't find anything now you can find everything and so at first people said well the internet is never going to succeed because you can't find anything on the internet and smart entrepreneurs took that problem and said no if solve this problem not only do i make the internet work but i also creates an entirely new industry so right now big coin is difficult to use but if you solve that problem if you take for example the fact that a big point of dresses like a thirty seven character thing and it's unreadable and you hide that like we no longer use ip addresses on the internet we use nice and easy to use names we used to use you know one two dot one hundred and sixty eight dot zero dot one and you had to i had a list in my wallet of ip addresses if i wanted to go to the stanford website i had to pull out my wallet and look up their ip address that's how i used to work
and there was no way that was going to go mainstream so each one of these problems each one of these rough edges is an op unity to create a whole new industry that does things in a different way that reinvents financial services in the makes them new and innovative and decentralized and enables things that have never been done before this is not about making a better shopping experience it's about doing things we couldn't do before and eventually people are going to build wallets that are very easy to use and wallets that are going to be very beautifully designed and we're beginning to see that now as all of these startups are rushing in to fill in the gaps to polish all the rough edges and to deliver real quality consumer products that people can take
this incredible underlying power of bitcoin and turn it into an everyday experience that a person who doesn't want to know about any of the geeky stuff about encryption about keys about all of that simply says i want to send joe some money and the wallet is joe money send and all of the rest his head in the background and we're getting there and we're getting there and it's it sort of mirrors what's already been done with the internet so people could sort of see the path it's not like it's some completely new thing that's never been done ford no one's ever taken something is unbelievably complex simplified it made it mainstream online have a in that you could see it so with big points like the path has already lit you just have to get people that are brave enough to step forward and that's obviously happening except for one fundamental difference we don't have to lay hundreds of thousands of miles new copper and fiber line quit ocean build the physical infrastructure because it's already there the internet
well you know a decade and a half to spread in terms of adoption and one of the big issues was getting high speed internet to enough people and then getting fully on all the time remember the days of dial up modems going to be now it was feet possible to get my mom to do email if she had to first turn on the computer and log on double click start the dialogue do all of this with her phone that made her phone busy so she couldn't actually use it and it would drop off sometimes too and then connect and sync the mail etc it now she she swipes her ipad and the email is there and she doesn't know how it works all of this is always on its wi fi at simple boom done that's the progression we're going to see that's fascinating what are right now as of today what
weather changes in bitcoin since the last time you were on um there's some really interesting things happening i think so let's see it been awhile you know in in real life it's being two one slash two months which in bitcoin term like two and a half years so much has happened is just ridiculous one of the in things we've seen is serious effort and results in building multi signature capabilities i don't think we even talked about that last time or maybe we mentioned it briefly what is multi get your capabilities so this is a feature that was added to the core protocol the bitcoin protocol back in november of twenty thirteen officially and would work so when you send bitcoin to someone what you're doing is almost like signing a digital check and you're saying from joe rogan's wallets and you sign at the bottom
a yes i'm releasing this money to read that great so you sent it to the big coin network will look at that signature and say that's joe rogan signature great so therefore now the money belongs red band used on the transaction so what your wallet is doing what your phone is doing when it's sending when someone is it signing a transaction with your key to to basically say i authorize this it takes one signature to release the money from your your wallet allows you to build wallets that require multiple signatures so let's say you were running a company and you want to make sure that every single time you made a bitcoin transaction it had to be and by the ceo and the chief financial officer right so now you could say well it requires two out of two signatures the account has
signatures associated with it both must sign in order to do that or you could create a joint account between two spouses and you could say it requires one of two signature here is the signature one spouse has the signature of the other spouse if either of them signs you can do it right you could create a trust account where you have either the signature of one spouse and a trustee or the other spouse and a trustee to sign off for the account of a child for example you could create an escrow accounts where you say i'm going to sell you joe something and she sent me the bit coin and i don't deliver what happens then that's a problem right right you can get a refund now instead of that you said the big point to an account that requires two of three signatures your signature my signature and an escrow party
a third party that works as an arbitrator between us so if i send you the stuff that you wanted and you are happy with it we both sign i get the money right so you've paid me it's like an escrow would like to do with paypal and ebay right now if we have a dispute you call the arbitrator and you say i'm not happy i didn't get this product an you and the but radar sign and get the refund send the money back to you but if i'm not satisfied because i really did send you the product and you just don't want to pay for it i persuade the arbitrator that you're cheating i signed it with the arbitrator two out of three signatures get the money to myself so you can create these complex environments where you can do escrow you can do trust accounts you can have arbitration third party arbitration for refunds so that you can solve problems and you can create more complex forms of true
actions that give you better security and better trust that seems like you would read have to trust the arbitrator and they they would have to somehow or another not being cahoots with one party so when you use the visa network you abide by he says arbitration rules right so if you do a charge back and going to contact the merchant and say will show us a signature from this transaction and visa arbitration rules apply what do you like it or not you use ebay paypal arbiter open rules apply whether you like it or not the means of payment determines the rules of arbitration so that seems like a good opportunity for something like bank of america to get involved with yes paypal be one of the arbitrators you in like thank you if you like the arbitration rules of that group you could use them here here's the interesting thing though what it does is it allows you to say i
we have a market of arbitration providers all with different rules and different levels of trust and some of them will have very good reviews because people had good experience with them some of them are specialized in real estate and some of them specialized in auction markets and some of them specialized in antiques and some of them specialized in art appraisal and so on doing a transaction with you and i want to buy an antique i'm going to list two hundred and the arbitrators i'm going to pick the one with the highest level of reviews he's an expert in appraising antiques he's going to do a good job for us we agree that's the one we want to use now we've got it opens up all of these possibilities and it creates a whole new market for these services so you've taken trust there was centralized in someone like paypal you didn't have a choice but to use their arbitration and you decentralize it and now you have a market where the bio on the seller can decide what rules
apply so do you believe that this is very similar to what we were talking about before with banks at one person just has to do it start profiting on it and then the rush will be for all the this is sort of joining on the band way there's already an arbitration markets where lawyers and real estate agents and others are providing arbitration services for a small transaction fee like zero point one percent of the transaction in order to to provide escrow capabilities and you can do that when you buy something with bit coin you can now use escrow and this is all within the last time you were here the techno she was nascent and the services were still being built and now they're being built faster so that two months really is like two years yeah let me give you another which is really cool people are worried about their bitcoin being stolen from their wallets because of a hack and one of the ways you can use multisig which is very interesting is to have of a two of three account and what i mean by to have
it means it has three signatures registered and you require at least two of those three signatures in order to authorize the transaction you keep one you keep another one as a backup put it printed on paper put it in a safe that's your recovery in case something goes wrong and then you give the third signature to a service that checks every transaction for risk and what they do is when you make a payment they look at the merchants that you paid so they look at their history they look at what kind of amount it is is this usual is it like ten dollars and you normally spend that what did you just suddenly try transfer half a million dollars out of your account and wipe it clean to a random address you've never seen before so based on that they're going to risk score it and then they're going to call you that send you a text message saying we see
the transaction here you've requested for two one slash two thousand dollars to emerging we've never seen before that you normally don't do are you sure you know respond one for authorizing this transaction respond to to cancel it and if it's a really big one maybe they're going to call you on the phone you're going to speak to jim and jim is going to say can you please give me the la four of social i want to check this whatever you can you can re intra use some of the fraud prevention systems that banks do but the really cool thing is now that's a market instead of having to do it with your payment provider you can pick who gives you a risk service yes fascinating but it's sort of along the same lines of the difference between apple locking up sing down you know it's secure or not getting a virus from a nap and the wild world of like
likes a perfect example would be like a bit torrent fucking download a program from bit torrent good lucks on better she fingers 'cause you never know what the hell you're going to get right so here's the thing i mean by the way these pickles god damn delicious if you want to pick over grillos pick us sent us some some pickles maze if you had the sweet ones yes there my favorite one one can you now come in the normal joke go over and buy grillos pickles or is there a website or is it just like local shit online only people yeah well you can get him delivered grillos pickles dot com delivers now daily isis guys ever to they came to our show in boston that he gave out free pickles to the whole crowd dude proudly one million dollars for the pickles handed out the two thousand people saw fresh too they take bitcoin there should rose pickles get on the ball better yet you should really start big coin now right like like if i wanted to buy a big one i wouldn't want to start now i would wait when a weight because i i'm not gonna spend
but five hundred dollars for a single bitcoin can you buy pieces of bitcoin yeah you can buy a very small amount so that we can where do you do that so most of the it most of the exchanges or place where you can buy big point in probably by like i think the minimum is twenty dollars or something like that worth okay so you can buy a 20th of a bitcoin theoretically you could on pi hundred million civic when somebody was willing to sell it to you but that usually the it's not worth doing for them about amounts so you can divide it as much as you want it's not you do not need to spend an enormous amount and then again the thing is what are you going to use it for a few if you're gonna try and use big point to invest in point be very very careful do not take your retirement funds and all your savings and dump them into this wilds right that is not smart right and i need to say but again and again people don't do that i mean i've and some of that and it's not prudent but my
a career is tied to this i'm in the industry this is not for the mainstream investor and it's not really an investment but i'm sorry maybe put a couple percentage points of a nicely diversified portfolio like after all you know one thousand dollars maybe two thousand dollars if i lose it i lose it if i don't in the mean time i can play with it i can buy a bit of bitcoin learn about the technology feel like i'm part of a early adopter think that's cool don't go putting all your money in bitcoin that's not what happened that one dude who had like nine million dollars in bitcoin in a hard drive and he couldn't find it so he's going through the dump with a fine tooth comb trying to figure out where that hard drive was remember that story well fortunately he didn't buy that bitcoin he was just one of the people who were involved in mining several years back and then he forgot about it and then he realized this whole hard drive he thrown away actually had a wallet which had seven and a half thousand pick one on it or something like that it's hilarious
by the way but it's not a loss you're gonna have treasure hunters known as all occupation it's no loss because he didn't actually have it you know he didn't he didn't say but if he had it he would have it could be a yes it's parking lot it's not going to keep the do from committing suicide well i think it's going to create a whole you treasure hunting business people are going to start and already we've seen this people buy old computers on ebay go through the hard drives and find wallets on them or porn or finance information identity theft yeah you gotta because people need to know the two of you get rid of a hard drive your white that clean you start you have to do more in that like you you give me a bunch of your hard drives a white and clean by student form away because i know that there's programs out there that could just do that so now i'm thinking like what do you do just dip a man bush has said or we should shoot him yeah it should be fine let's do it our in this conversation at the very moment we're having this conversation my my watch keeps bud
every now and then what do you got watch uh it's a pebble it's a smart watch oh how dare you you're one of those guys well i'm getting bitcoin not notifications of people tipping me over twitter as we're speaking which is very very cool i'm sitting here and as i say things if i say something that people like my watch buzz is a bit because people start sending me tips so weird that's pretty cool pretty cool and now it's buzzing a lot can be said he'll from you can you be like fuck you could you get like a negative shock if you say something stupid are you willing to take a chance i think that's again as i said if you're an entrepreneur there is an opportunity yeah yeah there's an pay someone to wear shock collar the truth written by that point we got there so i got my blocked i just re downloaded my blockchain app and and then you know just checking to see if i have what number
it might i should i give out if people were like brian what's your number your address that that this address right here yes the other so if you read this is there's no dangers of giving people or tell me and it's i'm given out your email address actually because it doesn't reveal any information about where you are who you are any of that okay all it allows people to do is send you money sweet and that's not because you can you can put that on a t shirt you can put it on a qr code it was this guy who went to a football game with the giants qr code printed and during the espn coverage when they were on the jumbotron they held it up and it said pay for my college or something like that i think they made like two one slash two grand or in a matter of minutes 'cause people would see it on tv take a snapshot and send them a little bit coin wow why not there's a congressman who into a recent meeting wearing a sandwich board with a qr code on the front where you could donate bit bitcoin to wow it's perfectly safe you could publish that you could
we don't posters around the city if you want some i treat it right now that's fantastic that's went to joe so mad people ask me for your bitcoin address so they could send you bitcoin so you know it is can you tell me what it is if you still have the application absolutely yeah we'll give it out we'll see what happen if somebody sent me one too and i'm like how the fuck did you forget i know it's really funny the the watch is buzzing all the dice yeah that watch i'm not i'm not a big fan of the dick tracy watch that shits ridiculous i i only use it you know what i use it for most of the time for notifications on tripit when i'm traveling it tells it like it and it goes gate change and i don't miss my flight i mean that that's useful yeah i'm i heard the pebbles the best one out right now still i'm a even with the new samsung so i'm enjoying it a lot what's the difference between the samsungs and the pebble and i don't know got this as a gift and that's the only one i've ever used and i'm just still playing with it so here's something weird that happened to me after the phrase you're open my thing yet you still got it
looks like somebody sent me one too yeah right after so i got some business in front of a camera how will that work people see the qr code on your phone you can hold it up to the camera on this pointing at me over there behind you and that will and is that going to work there you go right once the yeah once the brightness stabilizes yeah but you can publish that address and that's that's joe rogan's bitcoin address right there and hopefully you can say hello to joe with money they can publish it later you can just copy that's how do you get that loaded in an email if people give me any real money although it's cherry by the way yeah just to let you know that's that's all is a good thing to do and by the way charity is has become one of the dominant for names of payments in bitcoin a lot of people who doing a lot with charity and it's b
as you can send money very quickly you can see all the money is being spent there's this fantastic charity that i'd like to mention which is based in pensacola fl where they've made it pretty much illegal to be homeless they first band sleeping outdoors than they banned blankets and they tried to solve homeless problem by bussing them to other cities around and kick them out of the area i support that how do we do that sweet brian you miss the point the point is that evil those poor people rapport most of them are veterans coming back from the war and having no jobs in having ptsd and no treatments and i don't know if most of 'em but there are quite a few one hundred percent this is really forty percent of the homeless population in this country is made up of veterans so jason king from sean's outpost show on south post dot com start
collecting money for with bit coin and use that money last year in the first year of the charity to feed sixty thousand meals to the homeless people of pensacola florida that's a managed to create fundraising events from all around the world and to convert that money very effectively into food for people who desperately needed that that's just one example is a lot of charity a bit give the bit give foundation which coordinates charitable giving a hundred bit coins which is a charity that will literally give a hundred bitcoins points to any charity that wants to take bitcoin they already have they've raised money now there trying to find charities to give the money away to how can i mean that was just an image that thing was just an image the bitcoin barcode yeah whatever it is how do you how would i put that online so i can i can i've i received one screenshot i received one zero one bitcoin
it's already happening approximately four dollars in ninety two cents for twenty eight oh shit phones blowing up this just got five bitcoins or i've donations just from that stupid image that's incredible what if put that image online how do you make a screen shot with the android from although it's sort of a i can i can send you a charcoal the corresponds to your dress is fairly easy for me to generate that you can share that q r code through the application or you can just post the address above it the qr code is just the address it's the same number that starts with one that long series of digits it's just in the form of a bar code to make it easier i need to find out how you screenshot with a gal see note three use mine there's different different ways you can it mine i just swipe my hand from left to right over the screen yeah i do screenshot but i think i chose to do that through the studies there's got to be a way right yeah bring but there's got to be like an easier way
like a button you press or something like that open settings motions and gestures oh that's the only way to do it huh it's that's as five doesn't always work the yeah we're done with the show i'll get that bar code ready for you you post it on the show and see what happens ok you press the power button and the home button at the same time power but so how did you get this i did you get that cool bar on his the bar code you just touch the bar code on the home screen of your application alright i'm going to i will make it bigger i'm going to send this image i'm going to put it on instagram and then we'll see what's up let's see if this does something if you click on the receive button red band and then i think it's one of the tabs at the bottom and then when you do you've got the
problem is they won't let us make new iphone application is lagging behind i mean there you know i think they still let me download it though because i got a new i phone the other day and i still am you download the old program off the i tunes store maybe because you already had it on your yeah if you already own something you've still allowed to re download it or somehow you so even if it's gone yeah that's interesting yeah it's kind of like soap well that spent money on something they are they still own that product so they can't really take it away okay i just instagrammed it with means it also went to my twitter and my facebook so almost two million people have access to that image now let's see if my phone explodes i've had that happen with an expose so let me tell you a great story of fund raising using bitcoin did you hear the story with newsweek where they came out and but we found the creator of bit
yeah that's about all that's the thing i want to talk to you about most today great support but i have a great story for you exactly about what happens and we got a video online to share as well so i was at a conference the morning i found out about this and i looked into it and a lot of the people in the back when space are interested in who so those back on motorways they've been a lot of research i think we should leave the person alone and it's probably not going to be good to find out too it is because all it's going to do is smear that person going to try and smear him so i would rather not know because it doesn't matter it's the math is what matters not who it is but people obviously curious when i fell about about this person in the loss angeles area that was fingered by newsweek as sub in a komodo then and by the way i don't want to create more publicity for this poor man because he is not satoshi it's being become abundantly clear
we've got a lot of writing by the original creator of bitcoin and it doesn't match any of the style of it's beginning phones are in constant vibrate right now with this listen it's just kinda make it happen bitcoin community i'm counting on you that's all bitcoin coming in right now dollar dollar bills your that's awesome justin wren fight for the forgotten you getting all this money dude justin wren up our power that's in the congo thank you that's great exactly yeah he he's a great guy who's living in the congo right now and he builds wells for these pygmies he gets the medison this poor guy has gotten he's gotten horrible diseases while he's been down there had dengue a fever you almost fucking died and i he is dedicating his his entire life to do this so
i will i will donate all of this to my friend justin and it's going to keep coming in so holy shit dude nuts okay so the superman is watching on my phone put it up your ass i have hungry yet so it's covered in this is ridiculous as a big community out there and they're very generous yeah now they the most certainly are i'm kidding ladies and gentlemen i got about one hundred donations in the past minute wow you didn't mean to make make any arrangements with these people they didn't there was no banks involved there was nothing it was just direct from them to you whom charity happening in real time yeah this is crazy school yeah this is madness man with some people are donating real money too
can't steal my bitcoin dude are you a hacker i've review i've received donations that in some cases exceeded three thousand dollars in a single donation for a charitable cause that's incredible your people are sending me like twenty dollars it's great yeah like there's a lot of a man and not like a few like a lot of them that are like twenty bucks because it tells you what it is approximately yeah by today's standard when it when it pops up this is not the man i met our shop my fucking phone off i'm going to run by battery just close the program on the samsung have to hold it down turn it to the manager i know all that how dare you don't fucking shut up dude we don't know shit fucking your apple fanboy you know that about that bow wow your fuck apple family do mine by just going there fuck you
well i can now you task manager just press close all you don't have that option on the iphone suck up on it you don't even have a task manager bitch you can't just shut them all off what's that noise somebody hacked your shit they started playing game music was that bitcoins face the cover of newsweek so this is a story that newsweek broke about that guy about that guy in los angelus and here's the funny story so his name is satoshi net but actually it's dorian per will satoshi nakamoto he doesn't go by satoshi goes by taurean and he's not he's not the creative bitcoin there's no doubt in anyone's mind at this point newsweek fucked up big time and they got it wrong and worse they dock him as we say on the internet they produce pictures of his home address and his car registration plate and so he got swamped and just by journalists he got swamped by crazies by really
crazy dangerous people who suddenly thought he was a rich person and wanted a piece of the action it was a really horrible thing to do we're responsible journalism and i'm a very big supporter of free speech and i think as well but if newsweek daily responsible about that kind of thing right if news week does crappy journalism they have every right to do that and we have every right to call it crappy journalism so not just call it crappy journalism that guy deserves it sue the fucking shit out of them won't work now not in this country not in california why not first amendment is very awful but but there's a menu outed a guy he gave his home address out and you were wrong i feel like for sure he should be able to sue you don't think i think to be affective is especially because the california has the anti slapp statues against strategic lawsuits for against public participation itsr
the strong protections for the first amendment especially with journalistic organization you have to show malice you have to show that is not in the public interest you have to show deliberate farm and he has to show damage is it wouldn't work here's the point here is the important point what is the bitcoin community do with that they immediately said how can we help this man people said let prime model trains he really likes model trains let's send him cash and some people started saying let's do a fundraiser let's do a fundraiser let's do a fundraiser but who's going to do fundraiser need someone trusted in the community and i looked at this and i thought i really don't want to get involved but this guy really deserves a break so i started a fundraiser two day after this story broke i created an address which started with one taurean bitcoin address of vanity address and i said the fund raiser for dorian and it's six hours that morning we raced thirty bitcoin and fifteen thousand dollars and over yes and over a period of one month we raised fifty bitcoin four
seven dorian that's incredible he can use now and it really started pouring in like exactly what you saw just let's give it out on air what is it what's the address ok yeah let's let's post it on air i'm sure he would like some more i also got the video pulled up it wanted to watch you play the video let me just let me just say what we did next which is we need to make sure we got this money to the right person i couldn't do that because a lot of people came to me and they said i'm dorian giving the money no you're not i'm not that stupid okay the only thing i knew is what he looked like so i visited him at his home yesterday and completed my part of the deal and gave him the fund razor and i haven't announced this yes i just did a posting with the video and he made a little video for us so
so i'd like to play that video is for the bitcoin community yes i'm always doing that i'll pull up his address you can do some more donate beautiful beautiful recording and we can do as many as you want to let it about it it's been edited yet it still in process the editing there were it's been rough bitcoin community thank you very much for your support throughout this whole deal that i'm still fighting and i would like you to see this this magazine which came out in april will be no actually march fourteen issue of this year the big coin face the mystery man behind the cryptocurrency and i'm not toshi nakamoto as portrayed as a creator
my name is dorian satoshi nakamoto and of course if i was a real creator i will never use by real name so from that point of view i'm sure you guys will now i suppose she nakamoto is not me but i think so annuus weeks it so but it's not true ok i received the bitcoin account andreas yeah very thankful for you all these people in us europe in asia and africa in south america who supported throughout thank you very much i want to fuck you this two thousand of you who donated can
very happy each one meet the tech you my heart thank you very much and i would like to for the state that i'll be one of the big warning use or big going community person hello what contribute even if it's a little part of this world for google humankind as and rios and many although few over to make the war a little bit better four everybody especially for poor people thank you and i'll keep my bitcoin account for many many years and hopefully
i can also contribute as you did to me thank you that's so cool that's so cool i love i love his sentiment i love what he just said you know that you could tell that's not a can speech that the guy was really touched yes it was a it was a he is really sweet a really sweet person and this wasn't fair what happened to him but the quake community came through with a really great fundraiser that that will have a material impact on this person's life that's so cool and and do up some of the damage that was caused by irresponsible journalism and i i can damage spent three hours with me is not the tuition to come out of the creative bit coin no question about it i mean just setting up his internet connection we a huge struggle is that his a bitcoin address prime can you text me that so i could put it online or email me that so i gotta put it online i female both use send it to me nope
send it to me and i'll throw it up on twitter right now to with the story planning to everybody who this gentlemen is and what went wrong that's add that they decided to go ahead and print that story with no you know substantiation still they're still sticking by the story they will say we we got the right person how do that and and it's so obvious to everyone who's got half a brain cell is a showman do you know how to it involves retired he used to be involved in i mean i don't want to i don't want to intrude in his life any any further he just wants to be left alone and by the way he now has access to this fundraiser so he can use this money but yeah i mean they basically intruded into his life and violated his privacy and most importantly handled his personal information irresponsibly but in the end the bitcoin
he came through will generosity in grayson's and charity and and that's the that's really the big thing about big points to so much charity going on in this space i think that's beautiful and it is called the big corn community came through but what drives me crazy is that is long established journalism outlet would be so irresponsible not not long established this is being purchased the name has been purchased by new management has nothing to do with the previous management newsweek raw this is completely new people running under the same brand when and now you know exactly what kind of quality journalism they put out which is yellow trash so they're just trying to make money they just trying to sell magazines at whatever cost do you think they knew that this guy do you think they're sticking by the story because he can't prove it do you think they're just
trying to not be responsible for their actions or not be you know financially responsible for any damage is that he might have suffered they make money the way they make money then make click see the way the more controversy around it it doesn't really matter at this point that's very disappointing so this is a new thing people that are bought newsweek this is fairly new this out on the 14th of march i mean the purchase of newsweek yes this is this is there launch edition this is what they launched with this is what they launched with you can you can't go backwards on your first issue of a new launch because that would make your like oh yeah we suck now we have their first edition was an absolute stinker what a bunch of dickbags take bags well so gross i'll never buy a newsweek i'll tell you that not you can't do that can't do it you can't push guys fucking home address out there and pictures of them
no answer dorian yakimoto when his lawyers rights us what i like that guy fuck you you got gotta know man you got to really be sure you can't just accuse a guy especially midst of all this chaos with mount docs collapse and and the very real physical danger that is in slide by first saying that someone has a lot of money which she doesn't and uh fighting all of the crazies to visit his address by publishing it yeah they were saying he was worth insane amounts of money right like nine million dollars or something something fucking crazy like not easy million dollars what was it the feel so she could be controlling up to five hundred million dollars but in bitcoin the current price he could hold it i mean he might have that much a million pick one he might have himself he might have a million bitcoin yes well that's that's the estimate that satoshi nakamoto has a million bitcoin ok okay but is he real is there a
satoshi nakamoto is there a guy let's say let's call mr x there is a real mister x well i i'd like to think that well she is real she okay i see why not why not who knows she had them anything i i i usually say she's out to one of the conferences so make sure you treat all the ladies right because one of them might be said so she could you imagine yourself yeah matt i have to see which is a really smart who scarlett johansson looking you know you can say it's a pseudonym so it could be male female doesn't members could be several folks and i think the most likely explanation is that it was a group of researchers but doesn't matter it really doesn't but if it is that group of researchers their group of researchers is in control of five one million dollars worth of bitcoin potentially potentially in control because we don't know what's happened with the keys none of it has been moved none of it has been tough so there are just sitting on it it's just sitting there for this is sitting there will
tesla be the first car that you could buy with bitcoin i don't know if you probably can already i think they there is some dealers are selling a bunch of cars for bitcoin i want to be surprised dealers are selling cars for bitcoin a bunch of lamborghinis have been sold for bitcoin already people are buying borghini apartments and property and planes and there's a there's kind of course can trade it in for money so you pretty much buy anything with bitcoins with an exchange and virgin galactic sells seats on their patients to space for bitcoin and they've sold seven already all it's open people are going to space with bitcoin allegedly go the space they might just get launched on the end of a bomb that the fuck is going to have to fly for long time before daddy goes to space i'm so not interested in being an early adopter of the fucking spaceship belfort
we did neil degrasse tyson he thinks it's kind of a high altitude yeah you think it's kind of a goof to spend one hundred thousand dollars to go like a little higher than a plane and look down and then drop back down again what you do go into zero g and so i think it's interesting because it's that reusable reentry capability which is revolutionary in the way they've done it is very visionary aperture ten well no doubt about it richard branson's a bad mother fucker no no argument there i just think and so you can go to the moon you can go fuck yourself that's what i thought or until you can go zoom around a few you know hang out there for a day sit a luxury suite on the top of the earth and looked and you can only go there for like a minute and then you gotta come flying back down again right isn't it the idea behind it yeah so i would agree the ultimate goal is to the moon to the moon alice have a nice
hotel there like a it in like a really nice hotel that you can stay out for a weekend yeah some moon hotel echo g zero g swimming pools zero g sex about that come along facials zero g squared she's ducks like this is the matrix you would have well i guess would still propel it would probably go on forever if you could stick your dick outside the spaceship and just shoot one into space it would just take off forever but it be frozen instantly girl in a rag and stepping on your bed it's floating around your whole entire room you guys discuss what if she squirts yeah you don't want to have sex how do we get to this competition this is the joe rogan experience podcast that's how we do things over here i'm sorry
and now we're going to help you promote bitcoin but we're not going to change the format don't know i love loving it no worries so lamborghini doesn't take it it's like a third party thing is that how yours were dealers that are taking that crazy accepting bitcoin how crazy is the risk listen you get a lot of publicity and marketing and then you take the bitcoin and you convert at the same day too best dollars so you don't get any exchange rate risk and what's the difference that's good point it's a very point not a lot of merchants are doing i kind of see it but man you i would put a tap on it you know it was my dealership i'd say we're allowed to sell one a month with coin everything else has to be with good old american dollars back by blood and eagles cortana keeps fucking you can't just bank the whole thing on these these weird digital courage
but i i'm gonna i bet i'm going to be sending justin rent one thousand dollars by the end of this day yeah it might be a lot more than that i don't know i'm gonna have to decipher i'm going to need your help after this podcast is over we're going to have to go over how much i need to write a check for when i'm going to leave the money in there though so if you keep sending it to him he'll keep getting money um what else has happened in the last two one slash two months besides these really fantastic innovations that that you're excited about there's the whole environments which is weird in terms of median regulation it's being good news bad news good news bad news but i will try to send your town you know trying to spending and not banning it rushes banning and not binding it vietnam spending it not banning it and this is really funny because of course the countries in which these iron fist bands are happening at the countries where the rule of law is the least expected so true right right so like boots and bandit you know what hard dollar
there were bands in the 80s in in russia you could you are not allowed to have foreign currency hard currency throughout the soviet union it was banned very very very seriously band guess who red stuffing their suitcases with hard dollars first the politburo and then the army generals and then the cops and then all of people who in those countries are above the law and other people we are below the law then bribes that people who are above the law in dollars of course to all the whole dollars and the whole thing becomes a mockery put is like a giant russian version of john gotti who really is like you member how gotti was like so flamboyant about the fact that he was the head of the mob like there was the head them before gotti were like real secret if there was that guy vinson which she anti or how we say his name who would walk on the neighborhood pretending to be crazy wear a bathrobe and slippers and they and even like say his name 'cause he told
everybody that everything was being taped all the time so don't ever say my name when you're talking about me point point to your chin so p i would just like go and you know is not going to take the he's going to want to do something for our friend so you know it's a good idea appointed a chan cuz his name is vincent the chin gigante or whatever that was but but got a came along and swear and one thousand dollars suits and you know just was obvious mobster had obvious mobsters with and there was public hits and all this crazy shit and everybody loved him 'cause he was the face of the mob this putin guy is sort of like that in a way but on our crazier scale because he's running a whole country i mean he's essentially just grabbed whole country and and not just that here's the
little secret i think the thing that most people miss is the elephants in the room and that's gazprom that's what natural gas natural gas gazprom so basically they've nationalized the gas industry the gas industry then supplies natural gas which is one of the ways that we've avoided the impact of peak oil and energy construction that is killing worldwide economies right now 'cause oils gotten vastly expensive the gascot cheaper because of fracking and other things and gazprom produces most of the gas in the world so much so that they supply all of europe with natural gas and they supply them through pipelines
go through which country i've got is the ukraine and afghanistan and various other places but the line of pipelines of gas are the hot spots of war and civil war and occupation all across eastern europe and right now there's this huge power play going on around the ukraine and a lot of that has to do with routes of gas and it's to massive geopolitical power play between world powers and putin basically say we just double the price of gas in the ukraine which is exactly what they did i think they quadrupled it in fact which plunged country into a recession and then they sent to europe you know you don't threaten us with sanctions were going to turn off your gas and if we do all of you are going into recession because that's the only form of cheap energy you have and we could go into world war three is that
it seems like some weird shit is happening japan is upping its military now it's navy is getting larger and larger by the day and there they're changing their whole policy as far as how they deal with other countries because china is encroaching on a lot of these islands that japan has been controlling an it seem do you like more and more everyday that powers are moving into position to dominate porn things of the world and it just seems it seems like some shit is about to happen the error of cheap energy is over and the world has to reshuffle to accept that fact cheap peak oil change it's everything you can't sustain the same consumerists behaviour in developed countries and that together with climate change it's a combination that creates upheaval all around the world ann
the same time you have the world's worst currency crisis in three generations and we are currently living through the most significant currency crisis with dozens of countries suffering from hyperinflation with their currencies about to collapse europe in the euro hanging from a thread british sterling hanging from a thread and the us or going crazy with printing and into that environment you now have bitcoin it's it's a really interesting time to live in because there's so much change going on as an escort service that accepts bitcoin all science very excited now did you put up bitcoin address yeah we get you should say that i'll donated it all to justin randall don't donate it all to hookers corvette two yeah on a lexus lexus so i i'm glad we didn't get very far with a comma see
in about empowering the poor and discussions about that could fit coin could do before brian dumped this into an escort silent it's nice to empower the poor but guess who else is poor hookers yeah now i see well actually actually the best way to do it one thing that you and say about that particular cases that women in those professions are exploited by hey by the men who take that down brian you can't do that you can't just sneakily post that put it on your twitter you fuck put it on your twitter and retweet it sorry yes you're right they are exploited in this folder money all the money flows to the men who control and exploit them right and so big coin is being used already
in many cases for women to be able to keep control of their money so it can't be stolen by pimps and exploited exploited boyfriends and and yes there is and all of the other criminals who around them who take advantage of these women so actually it is quite an empowering technology even in that particular occupation or related occupations i was having this conversation on twitter and people with teasing me so i did satirical shot i said look i'm going to start the same business i'm going to post half naked shot of me and i'm going to make people pay me to stop because i'm a pasting middle aged male and nobody wants to see that shit and i'm going to donate all of the money that i raised and now it's it it went viral on twitter it's me doing a miley cyrus impersonation of licking a hammer with is just like from here up topless
it's a smart move but i i raised and the and i'm pretty proud of that photo because i ridiculed and exploited myself and raise six hundred dollars which i donated to the rape and incest national network which is a network that helps exploited women extract themselves from the use of environments and gives them shelter essentially like a underground railroad to get them away from people who are exploiting them or abusing them badly that's awesome you know one of the things that we've talked about on this podcast before an i think applies here is that there's there's a certain morality to a lot of these big tech companies and to tech in general that i don't exists in a lot of other industries and there's a lot of companies that are coming up now tech companies that are founded by very challenging very educated people who also have pretty strong ethics and i think that's rare for businesses to have like like a fairly established trend of
google consideration involved in their business practices and one of the reasons why i think is because no one understands transparency more than people that are really into the internet understands the implications or the ramifications rather of your actions whether positive or negative more than people that are that are on the internet when you look it up i'm waiting for red bands pull ups embarrassing photos any moment any moment to do that you have nursing photos did with in the picture that he was talking about oh no no no don't don't see see he's being really nice to me today thanks sweetie is nice to everybody is always nice believe me i did read though i was doing some research about the ipea thing because that's the only thing i did but there is some people saying that you could find the ip if you were devoted to it like me if i really wanted to find out what your ip address using the bitcoin currency i could just probably figure it out if i was really detailed about it no you can't
i think that's that's entirely wrong because if you were doing transactions those transaction this would be communicated across the peer to peer network kind of like bit torrent and they spread through that period for network in such a way that you can't even trace with the transaction happened but in your particular case you're not even doing any transactions there is no way to associate a bitcoin address to an ip address unless you're monitoring that person specific communications for example if someone's monitoring your laptop they can figure out your connected that ip address but guess what if there monitoring your laptop they already know that it's not so hard but just entering the bitcoin network you cannot associate addresses to pick one addresses to ip addresses putting up dorian nakamoto's i retweeted yours brian and contribute to dorian nakamoto to how do you spell
dorian dorian d o r i a and knock a moto yes exactly i used to hear it do you know who damn kaminski is a chief scientist for d k h he wrote in two thousand eleven that you could do that and that's what i was basing my findings on he said that unless you're very careful in the way you use big coin and you have the technical know how to use it with other anonymizing to technologies like tor or i t p a you should assume that a persistent motivated attacker will be able to associate your i p address with your big coin transactions set my hands black hawk black hat two thousand and eleven talk yeah and and that's not there they're not associating the i p address the big one address because it's in the network what what we're talking about there is a determined attacker whose
conducting surveillance of the entire network and has the resources to track down what's happening and so people say that bitcoin is anonymous but in fact it's not it's pseudonymous and loose is it gonna miss that means that if you conduct activities bitcoin that associate your bitcoin address to other things like for example you use it to buy something and then that something gets shipped to your home will now you tied that bitcoin address to your physical address right or i have a donation address that i publish everybody knows that's my address now if i take money from that bitcoin address which my donation dress and i move it into my wallet that i used to spend on other things now everyone can track that step by step and no well that's my wallet and then track everything that goes out of that wallet so i have to take some basic privacy precautions to protect against that now would there be
this is the kind of like an account number i guess like at the bank like you said now is there tech algiers or hackers that can take knowing your account number anri crew create it in a program that makes it seem like you are that person and like transfer money out of that account no because the address itself is essentially one part of an encryption key and the other part of the pair of keys the private key is the thing you have on your phone wallets right right that's the secret that's the thing that allows you to sign transactions ends the whole basis of cryptography of encryption systems is that you can't go from the public outrage to the private secret you can't go backwards you can go from the private secret you can recreate the out
public address but you can't go backwards that is the whole basis that technology is the same technology that's used to secure bank networks is the same technology that's used to secure tomahawk missiles is the same technology that's used to secure everything and so you can rest assured that the cryptography at the core of bitcoin is solid because it's used across all of the other histories so you'd be better off like hey want to charge my phone on your laptop and then you just download their phone and then re upload it on your phone we have their wallet you shave everything by so that's why you're not masterminds a blueprint so that's why you have a password on that application so if you steal the data if that application it's encrypted and you can't see the keys that are underneath that's what the pin number and password do and i have a secondary password there's also prevents from spending specifically spending alright man you wanna do this again three months i'd love to it
about three years in bitcoin time a lot of things will change will they really appreciate every opportunity i appreciate as well i mean you're very very informative we've never be this educated about this stuff it wasn't for you and i think you do a huge service too not just the tech community with this but just the jenna population giving them an understanding of what this is all about there's so much misinformation and confusion about it i mean we had just brian are too fucking dunces sitting there staring nature trying to figure out what it was before you came along so it helps us tremendously and i think what you're doing is it's break if i mean you're getting paid through bitcoin it's noble you have you're using in great ways i love what you did for nakamoto i just posted his bitcoin address along with an article explaining what went wrong and how he's not that guy and i just think it's cool batman and uh i'm honored that you were part of this well thank you so much and what
i'm doing is i'm just expressing my enthusiasm for this space but let me tell you a couple of quick stories about why this was awesome after first joe rogan experience suddenly i had people everywhere in telling me that they got into bitcoin because of that first show because they finally were able to understand it and i'll give you two stories although i was in the houston airport i was sitting down having lunch i was in transit between flights sitting there and someone sees my watching the goal is not the new pebble i'm like yeah it is and you could write applications and what kind of applications well the application i have on here which is pretty cool as i can check bitcoin dresses like bitcoin addresses so that's pretty cool yeah i said you heard a bitcoin yeah i've heard of it he hang on a second is your name andrea something up close and like yeah it who owns joe broken you the reason i bought bitcoin i got involved in bitcoin after seeing that episodes and i
just blown away i mean this is like i'm sitting down for lunch in a transit ariana restaurant i'm not used to being recognized that way so the better part monday yes say i land at lax i go to enterprise rent a car pick up my car i get into my car i drive to the exit i hand my drivers license and rental ticket to the booth guy at the exit and he takes a look at it and he goes were you on the joe rogan experience bot bit coin you're the reason i got into bitcoin an i follow you on twitter and the joe rogan experience got me into bitcoin this story has repeated one thousand times for me and not just from fifteen thousand people onto who started following me after the first show and got excited about bitcoin but complete strangers in the street and things like that and yes i get my share of crazies and stalkers and all of that and it doesn't matter because the vast majority is such a positive experience
and what everyone says is that you asked really grew great questions you ask the every the question is the question everybody wanted to us a simple questions to try to the stand and grasp this topic and for me that was a wonderful opportunity so thank you thank you listen the beautiful thing about having a podcast is nobody brings anything on the show that i'm not interested in it's not like an a work demands that i interviewed this guy who's on this sitcom or something like that farm talking to somebody it's because the subject is fascinating and that actually something i'm truly interested in and that's not having all those sort of like ladders and steps that you have to climb to put content out is real it's all about in a way that sort of mirrors what bitcoin is cutting out all the steps that are unnecessary between hugh beings interacting with each other whether it's exchanging money or exchanging ideas and information it's essentially
of it is along the same trend and it's all along the same lines yeah let's get you let's get you selling your products on on its and the other sites with making it quite hired primary dot com yeah by the way higher primate dot com has new and higher primate we just restocked it we have a bunch of new t shirts in now and we have t shirts that are the logo that's on my on my twitter page the newest one both uh in color and black alright we're out here you fucks i will see you guys next week follow andreas antonopoulos on twitter please and ipod yes let's talk bitcoin dot com and is it on is that on itunes as well as it is let's make it four episodes you have out there one hundred we just celebrate along one hundred episodes of sailor wheezes one hundred episodes of bitcoin you like i can't get enough bitcoin information yes you can motherfucker yes you can you can get one hundred god damn podcasts on it a
n t o n o p that is his twitter handle aan t o n o p thank you sir thank you i did have you on every three months right yep three months three years in bitcoin alright and we will see you guys next week next week i've got a lot of great guess i got steve maxwell world famous train and conditioning coach she's on monday dave attell rick fitzsimmons and the next friday night i am at the low berrow theater in santa barbara with mad flavor a k a joey coco diaz almost sold out so don't be slip in santa barbara okay
thanks to our sponsors thanks to today was a legalzoom legalzoom dot com did you have something to say i was just going to this friday i'll be in tucson with sam tripoli and then saturday in phoenix with samtripolibeautifulsquad dot tv for ticks beautiful what are you guys doing you could do in like club out there yeah where's hotel congress into song which is really bad like in a hotel it's highlighted in some like it hurts bad i think does doesn't don't live near there yes close we could drive there not not that close but like an hour and a half so that's cool is tucson is that place how many days at sea i i wanna say it's like a hundred fifty two hundred do shows yeah yeah irregular shave dollar shave club dot com go to dollar shave club dot com slash rogan dollar shave dot com dollar shave club dollar shave club dot com ford slash rd thanks also to legalzoom go to
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-04.