Hello, fuckers and fuck ease this episode. First, while for even get to the sponsors, I got some some sedate coming up I've been saying to myself for the longest time. I want to tell people about my comedy dates on the podcast sees contradiction that the number one platform for promoting shit, I dont use to promote me but I do that more often about doing it. Sometimes, at the end, when I remember remember, but I got gave comin up first, while July, tenth at the car theatre at the MGM, its of envy. Yes and it's the night before the Josie Aldo Conor Macgregor Fight, it's just went on sale today is Thursday. They just want on sale yesterday DA the Khartoum regime banana fog in OZ. It's it's that certainty so late theatre, it's kind of freak is behind it

these mechanisms, like the whole stage, lifts up and they this elaborate thing that they Like literally move this stage on these giant hydraulics, you look behind the stage and theirs is gears and dislike who, like its is cut daunting, look and feel your fingers get caught, not yet, but it's a giant place and its awesome. We did it just couple months, go just a month ago actually and we're doing it again July tenth. So it's the great Tony Hinge Cliff Tom Signora and myself, and if you haven't seen Tommy's one, the funniest Fuckin guy, as on earth. Without doubt, as is tony, and if you want to I like an up and coming guy, that has like real fucking potential to be a superstar it

My opinion is tony, hence cliff that kid is hasn't been doing comedy a year here he did his first. Our special he's tireless is constantly turning out. New material is constantly working and doing sets a big fan of both. Those guys are fuckin awesome and there with me. I like me to, but not as much as them a July tenth at the cop theatre. So come on down freak bitches. If you're thinking about come to see me this weekend in Irvine, it is totally sold out how we can hold up. So that's not happening, but I do one other day coming up that's available, and that is at the Chicago Theatre on July twenty. Fourth, that's a nice for you have seen Chicago. There should be a Vulcan Crandall time and then set sponsors who, oh that's, dollar- era. Oh we're brought to you by multiple

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EL today Jamie her her, I got a fucking bigfoot kettlebells. That's right. Bitch is shit ain't even out yet a ninety something pound, Bigfoot Kettlebells, delivered to my house boy. Does the youth Yes, God love me, sorry, buddy, it's bullshit should not do that still me to go pick it up about your picked it up now. Why fuck- and I do shit like that- would on it- is besides the Bigfoot Cowbell Company, we sell all sorts kettlebells. We sell primal bells that are all model F, the great apes. My favorite is a gorilla causes perfect way for an awesome work

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and enthusiastic employee basis is an awesome spot and we all saw the on an economy that is on on top combat o n n. I t use the code word, Rogan you'll, say ten percent off any and all supplements god dammit. Never shut. The fuck up do I made yesterday is Kevin falter. I found out about Kevin falter through, friend, Kara Santa Maria, and he is a scientist. I he's a professor inversely Florida and Donald against them, some Margaret went forth and he's also an expert in G M o plants, and that is an area that I have been very curious about for a long time. I did a lot of this information lotta confusion on minors to what entails a gm all plants and what was really get to the bottom of all that he was a great guy really enjoy talking to him, and I think he should start as on podcast question answer. Protest

thing would be great, please without further Ado, Welcome Kevin Falter, experience by my arrived here with Kevin Folder, Kevin you're, a scientist, GMO Foods expert, and if there is one subject that gets beaten to death on line and in conversation and butchered, I've heard many. Decisions that I had just walk away from it. Parties or people started talking about what GMO food it's too and what's going to happen in all the horrible things GMO Foods opera, probably one of the most confusing and also one of the most hated Deng's in in the world today, but also one of the most common and more, misunderstood right mean almost everything is theirs

the grass Thyssen did a video about this, where he was kind of explaining, like the term GMO food psych virtually everything you see, including things record call quote: organic at a supermarket have been met. Five in some way in order to prolong the shelf life in order for them to taste, better include corn and tomatoes and and

oranges, and you name it. I think. That's the big problem is that you knew framed this very well that the problem is that we confuse this idea of GMO, which is kind of a pejorative term that that we derive to a kind of misrepresent this kind of technology which is really just plant genetic improvement. Like you say, we been improving plants for ten thousand years as a species. We find the ones that work best and we continue to select those particular lines that have benefits for us and we ve been doing this for a long time, so everything is different than it was in the wild. If you look at the natural forms, there's nothing like what you see today in the store. So this GMO thing is just the most recent way that we ve been able to modify the way a plant behaves in what plant products are, and it just as a much more precise extension of conventional breeding. But there is a company that looms like the death star out there in the world of GMO Foods that company

at the same name. It spoken in hush terms around a hippie campfires, Monsanto variety and well Monsanto's us responsible for a lot of good things, I'm sure they they have done some creepy shit, they have gotten, especially in India. I mean they're there directly can did to the suicides of countless farmers who can afford to use their seeds after replace every year I mean is theirs good and bad when it comes to the ability to modify things, and I think what terrifies some people is that a company like Monsanto, which has just ungodly amounts of money and in Florence and power? I mean they ve been sued by the brazilian government and Brazil sue them and one I- don't know the exact specific so the case, but it is essentially about those seeds that explain those terminator seeds if you could and how those things were created. Ok see you touched on three and four.

Points. Then we can come back to that besides and also Monsanto being a giant company in. I should not where it off the top. I have nothing to do with Monsanto. I'm not you know, I don't work for them scientists, but wait a minute. I've read on line that you are a shill. That's right! You are not a shell. I am not a shell, I'm I'm actually Michel for you. I M make public scientists for the University of Florida, none the chairman of the Horticultural Sciences Department in a state where we grow almost no GM crops, the differences that I see tremendous potential for how these technologies could be helpful for our farmers and we try to get them excited about ways. We can apply them in the future. But let me go back to your last question, a box. I don't even know much about this Brazil issue either, but I am sure you can pull up the article seen on the big screen yeah. So you, your last, does the last question out of that was the terminator terminator seats

the terminator seeds. This is something that never existed in terms of a product that was available. Company called dealt a pine and land back in the nineteen nineties. Develop the technology to ensure that genetically engineered seeds would stay in the fields they were planted, that you wouldn't have pollen leaving and pollinating something else and creating plants and other places, pretty good idea for containment and delta, pine and land. Had this technology were basically the embryo of the seed didn't develop properly, so it was a dead end. You couldn't replant it and get it to grow. So when Delta pine and land later was bought out by the began by months and so everybody saw the term and velvet wasn't called the terminator seed, had some other name but quickly gained the name terminator, and so these were never grown outside of a green house in the company has said they never will grow them outside of a greenhouse just because of the overly implications of what they might mean. But

have been instances of GMO crops by buying pollination, infecting the lands of people who are not supposed to have these. Monsanto crops on and they were sued for having these crops growing on their land, cracked, others examples where the people, I've had litigation because they ve leave generated the seeds that are a licence products or in other words, when you're farmer, you by the seeds from the company and instead Monsanto or any of the companies that sell the seeds or six different companies. Now you buy seeds? For many of those companies, you fill out a form saying I agree to not grow. More of this and so there are cases where people have grown more of it. It hasn't been from a little bit appalling drifting into a field. The court cases are all public record in the ones where they ve been successfully tried and litigated. They ve been for thousands of acres of plants that somewhat with knowingly grow and maybe even treat with round up in many cases so that they were selecting for the trade the entire

was to sell the seed said they agreed not to sell okay. So these stories about farmers that were getting sued because of cross pollination because there the GMO crops have infected there. Their land is not true that's not there's no evidence in the end, the record to show that this is substantiated agenda. What's even numb more scary about that. Is that daddy, when the company has litigated any of these and one favourable court decisions, they haven't kept the money that any damages went back the community. So again, that's what you mean by that I mean images, went back, make meaning that if they saw if they suit a farmer actually won the case. Any of the funding that was a one is a penalty from that case was given back to the community where that farmer lived back and what form, I guess just. Let me guess just financial support, for whatever I've it would just idea they wanted to get around was that they,

somehow suing farmers to get rich or to pocket the funds, and so they created this operate dwelt. This planner this programme to put the money backward, came so where these farmers get the seeds, then if they do they, they illegally acquired the seed. Somehow that, what's the implication well, if you were to go by corn from say Monsanto or dour any of the companies that make it, and you are too good say soybeans that were round up resistance, so they? U they resist the herbicides. You can kill the weeds, but let this plants grow through. I, if you were to buy those in we're spray them, and then I keep the seeds and then growth, dog, bulk them and then start selling them out of your garage. The company would come and say no. You can't do that. So this is what you do and as your taking the corn and corn itself is essentially seed right by the the actual, the ears of corn, you can grow corn from that corn.

And that's what they're doing? Yes, so their, essentially it and maybe not corn as much, and I can get to that in a second. But things like cotton and in soy you can't it's a lot like software and Anastasia Bognor, doctor and seizure banners. An excellent example of this. You can't go by a copy of Microsoft Office and go home and make a thousand copies and sell them on Ebay without Microsoft, knocking on your door right. This is a technology that takes years and years to develop its really expensive technology to deregulate something like a hundred and thirty million dollars, sometimes to deregulate one of these genetically modified lines. So the company needs to make money to me Cain, its sovereignty, and so they ask farmers were the beneficiaries ultimately of this to sign an agreement saying that, though by it every year, so this is the law suit. The brazilian lawsuit escrow of gems. Through this whole thing is so they face.

One billion dollar, or this isn't two thousand thirteen. They lost a lawsuit. This is not a a recent article but the farmers that were suing for abusive purchase contracts scroll down a little bit? There, Brazil farmers court actions are piling up against Monsanto for collecting royalties on r r one is that round up around a Brady one regarding a league regard as illegal and for conditioning The sale of New GM seeds and without a word, is intact in an hour or two to the signing of a contract. Seen as abuse according to an article four Valor online Brazil, lawyers for the farmers and representative bodies estimated the value of the claims against Monsanto. At one point: nine billion brute brazilian brazilian he owls, which is about U S. One billion processes have not been completed, but preliminary estimates saved.

Claims may affect the companies profit seeking to find a more recent article cause they lost that lawsuit, and I have no clue. This is also coming from sustainable pulse and GM watch, two sources which have nothing positive to save biotechnology and it wouldn't surprise me if no other countries did try to Lydia gate these kinds of examples they mean it admits anybody can sue accompany. You know anybody graduate, so it's it's possible that these things are brought before these governments saying that these were unfair practices to farmers to make them sign it. Contract, and then repurchase the seed later on. So these seeds that you were talking about before, how did these folks get the men of the day? They are getting enough seas to plant thousands and thousands of acres illegally? How are they doing? just saved the seeds from the previous year instead of instead of process. You can imagine: according corn, Cobb has several hundred colonels and one of those represents a new plant, so you can have x. Amount of your

A dedicated to seed production? So essentially, all you have to do is by you know a few thousand years of corn and you'd be able went just a giant area of legumes No- and I wish I knew the number on top of my head, but I dont, but it would be able to plant replant mark seats, horns a bad example because corn our hybrids and it without going into a whole genetics whiteboard thing here: you're every corn is made from two parents that are genetically very different, but when you combine them together, give you a hybrid that, when you cross a hybrid with a hybrid gives you a mixture of seeds that dont give you any uniformity in the next generation. So since the nineteen thirties, the seed companies have been able to resell that hybrid seed to farmers every year, because there's no

to be gained in in producing your own and so corners, and always the best example in the companies have use genetics for going on a century now to protect their breeders interests. So the original corners of someone's foam was the original corn before was modified. It all was that corn that you get like for thanksgiving, but you hang on year your door, that Nobody Eads that weird colored funky looking corn and has even smaller than that wrangle yet go. The original corn was called t, assenting, Antaeus, the day was basically growing on a Bush in Mexico and gave you thirteen little hard colonels on a stick. That in a plant would produce some of this, and it's it's now being thought from archaeological evidence that people's would take these little Corner Cobb's, which to call it that is constrained. The subtle stick with little rocks on it and stick it in fire and pop it. Indeed it like popcorn, because it's too hot

do, you have to use a lot of water and grinding to make any food out of it. But you can imagine how exciting it was when you were a person who is using this for sustenance. When you found a deal Cynthia plant that may be made twice as many or maybe instead of thirteen colonels gave you twenties, x, and so you would select those implant them the next year and its really into thing that now you can go back through the ten thousand years of corn improvement and we ve been able to identify the genes that were at all the critical thresholds that shifted this thing from being a bush, with lots of little sticks of colonels to being what it is today and it he's just a small number of genes that were changed so before they start in modifying genes. How did they select like say? How do they, because before Any genetic modifications were done in laboratories. They had turned this gene what I say: a TEAL Cctv, Cindy or maize is Mr Cot right. That was the India We are even now even a coordinated commercial. I think that you're, that is only ass. Yet bothering me

this is kind of a general term for everything from my field corn, which is what we think about which is fed to animals around. Eighty percent of GM crops go to animal feed right and we differentiate that verses. What is typically by humans, which is usually sweet, corn varieties, so how did they turn it before? There was any genetic modifications done laboratories? How did they turn that corn into, what we need now is delicious and sweet and you put butter honour its fantastic OSHA. They do that you actually, but it was all just random mutations DNA memorandum yet read. Dna replication is a sloppy process and funny things. Happen when you from environment. So in the process of replication of dna itself, you can make errors cosmic radiation just that chemicals in our environment

Natural chemicals that are out there can induce changes in dna, and these kind of mutation sometimes very rarely result in a change in the plant. That's beneficial and at least or at least from a human perspective. So in all the plans that we ve had all the points that we have the significant amount of change has come from random mutations that change genes in ways we dont understand on pieces of dna that get up out of the Norman sit down somewhere else randomly they do this all the time viruses in the plants that get into the genome and sit down in places that we have no idea where so genetic modification is something that's ongoing in constant and a factor in every non, including our own, and so what we are seeing today is just the the long term effect that of humans have been able to put all the good traits in one place. So when you see those tomatoes that are in the supermarket that a pale and you could play basketball them those hard tomatoes,

Compare them like heirloom tomatoes, the only difference between those two, who is that someone had found some tomatoes that had grown extra fur and selected those and use this he's from those to create more or similar tomatoes only selected those right see you at you framed to cool things here so heirloom. What is an airline in an airline is a tomato without standing eating, qualities that can't work in production commercially causes to motion is too. She, they dont last long breakdown, but on the other, and so this is what the problem is with our food. When you talk about tomatoes, strawberries, blue,

there's things at these are Non GM, oh, by the way. There's no GMO tomatoes or strawberries, not at all people would say there are. The problem is that plant breeding over the last fifty years or say over the last one hundred years that the objectives of the breeders has been bigger: fruit, uniformity, big yield, disease, resistance, nothing about flavour and Roma, so to meat production characteristics, which is what we ve been selecting for. Breeders have been, looking for these kind of characteristics that don't involve the consumer, and so our decline in the flavors and the quality of fruits and vegetables is directly related to the mass breeding, not anything to do with you, So when you say genetic modified in in that, in those terms, they are kind of genetically if I were there not modified in terms of being a laboratory in human beings, doing some funky stuff, oh geez, a sort of modified almost naturally

and just selected for those modification, exactly in some of the things that we selected for, have been the ones that didn't kill us when we ate them or the things that didn't make a poison that something a tasted horrible plants make lots of funky compounds. And so this was an opportunity for so what we ve seen in our stores right now is the residue of a thousand of years of human selection and when we can call it genetic modification if we want to, but we can differentiate it from what we do in the laboratory, which is now we can call adding a trans gene or transgenesis, moving a gene from one background of genetics to another via laboratory and these the selections that people have moaned about, and I have as well mates horrible when you get a sandwich and has a pale too made on it, because they just taste awful. This It is no science involved in any that other than selection is no there's. No there's no liking

reaction, though some alien sort of genetics into, though, things alien to the plan. Now, there's no there's no syringes, I'm nothing like that in actually, you know it is more an art than a science being a plant breeder is the most kick ass career these days and has been for a long time. On plant breeding is essentially inventing the next generation of food, and all we're talking about is mixing pollen from things that may be normally wouldn't cross together, like something that nature would never cross. But you got this cool tomato from Europe. The has great qualities and we can mix it with this great production. Quality tomato from that grows in Florida were, nothing else can grow, and now you mix these two together and you get this beautiful tomato that works well in everybody's garden. That's where we're going now: that's not gm! Oh that's just using other types of technology to facilitate this net. This breeding process that breeders

and how would you splice those two together like? How would you take it tomato from Europe and tomato from Arkansas, somehow another make them work on most of the time it's as simple as plant sexy. Just you'd elite masculine one of em. I recall that mail parts out of it and then you add pollen from a different flower and is very simple. That's what people have been doing to create hybrid varieties, fitter for centuries, No, that is not considered genetically modified, or it is well this back to the confusion it. It is certainly a genetic modification ramming together genomes that never would have mashed together in the wild? Never, but in creating a product that once you ve, never seen or tasted or tested, but yet we find this very acceptable and in varia, even though it's a very random process. We don't know what kind of those those trance poseable jeans of things jumping around genome. Two of the main corn types, have five hundred different

means between the meaning one has five hundred genes. The other doesn't have so you're, mixing together things that have no car reality other than the basic core guts of of genes in the genome. This is not a thing like that. Those splicing of things is now terrifies people. What seems to terrify people is the introduction of things that are not supposed to be in the organic plan. And this is something that that really bugs people on the real their real fear is of disease has of cancers. In this all these studies that have been done supposedly of rats, the got, can from some sort of round up crap like explain that ok, so let's We can go let's dive into that, so adding genes across. Let's species are cross kingdoms through a laboratory nets with people. I think, are really get strange about really don't understand. This is a part

It's actually terribly simple, and we ve been doing this since the nineteen eighties introducing the plants since the nineteen eighty I ve been studying since then, and the best example is insulin that the hue gene for insulin, is cut out of the human genome placed into a bacterium and then gigantic for mentors of bacteria, talking like an organism that is so different from humans, and then we pull out the insolent and we use this to inject in the patients rather than relying on isolating it from calf column, pancreas, where there can be all kinds, allergic reactions and all kinds other issues. So here we have a source of insulin. That's human someone that's coming through a GMO intermediate that allows humans to live cattle for low cost medicine that has no side effects and there's a bunch of instances of Arthur there's about its, not just insulin that they ve done with breeding it with bacteria

its bunch other things to her. Why we did that mean enzyme for cheese making is called Kind Wilson and as a key well, Jean that's expressed in a bacterium, ammo Jean gas, seems to be the most efficient at doing the job. That kind of ok, how the hell did anyone here for you that you just test everything? You know you try everybody's different. It is one of the enzymes, in the gut of one of the chambers of the God of the ruminants stomach, and I that the camel seem to have the one that was the most active in vitro. Is you can do this test? You put. Different enzyme in a test tube and see which one converts the milken too wide the cheese stuff faster and then you're able to figure out camel one, because it's a better enzyme for whatever reason now, you use that one in bacteria and ninety five percent of cheese uses a GMO intermediate that is insane how the

How did anybody ever come to the conclusion that a camel would produce the best cheese gave it? That's what we do. That's what I do. That's what my colleagues do. You know we ve got this really whole system of public universities were using money from public funding from you know your tax dollars to solve problems like how to make better cheese, less expensively, that's army, thing is allowing grant university, and I- and so this is these- are the basics I and questions that without we strive to Answer- and I think we are doing a good job with nets Weathers GMO thing is so frustrating, because we're so down in the Monsanto noise or so, and the noise that we have solutions that we can't use. So like the camel Jeanne you know it it things that we don't think of that. We figured out that. Is it because of the name because that name is associated with his big evil corporation, that all GMO foods are sort of looked at in this regard, because it mean people freaking out about camel genes and cheese,

They didn't know about it, but everybody knows about G M owes and they instantly connect that two Monsanto and they instantly connect monster, and told to greed and callousness and indian farmers suicide as we oh yeah, we gotta come back to you, don't know, water on her that hidden, but that this is. The problem, though, is that you look at the real solutions that are there in science, the stuff I care about. You know Monsanto ought if they went away to Morrow it wooden effect. The fact that the science is really good, so they are accompanied its profiting off of science. Essentially, while they sell a product, the farmers, farmers want improved crops that debt table than the big deal for farmers. We have one percent of our people in this kind, We are farming to feed and closed the rest of us at such a small amount, they're getting by

a narrow margins, and we are talking about the disasters that come from heat waves and floods and everything else their operating just by breaking, even and so a farmers who can get improved seeds that may be dont require and insecticide, because the plant makes its own protection. That saves a farmer big box in terms of fuel labour products that they don't have to spray, and so farmers have adopted the GM technologies faster than cellphones mean these. Were these went from zero to ninety five percent of acreage in just a couple years for five crops, so farmers by the crops Monsanto makes the seeds Monsanto makes the seeds the farmers want the seeds and demand more and that's why Monsanto season business they make a product that farmers use the Indians, indian farmers committing suicide woods

the store by so the best place to get information on this comes from academic sources, and if you look at Ronald Herring, who is a professor at Cornell University, he looked at this question very much. Suicide is a major issue in India and it's very common and now more than ever, among young women. And certainly as an issue among farmers, they plant a very risky crop nets, cotton cotton is. This is a difficult to grow crop that in most areas requires lots of water, and, if you don't, monsoon, arrange your crop fails so where this idea that Monsanto crops were somehow causing farmer suicides comes from the idea that the seeds are more expensive. Farmers go into debt to some degree of by them and then, when the crop fails, they lose the money. It doesn't have anything to do with Monsanto,

per se or with those particular crops. The other big issue you have is because these crops, so these are cotton plants that make their own insecticide. They make a protein completely benign to humans that protects the plant against the law against the weevils and other critters that borough into cotton, and so farmers dont have to spray pesticides and in its a huge deal, because it allows them to farm with fewer without having the cost of they all want. That said, there are many of them want. This by these seeds. Now the problem is that there is a counterfeit seed market where people are selling something that isn't legit and there are legitimate problems of farmers who have who commit suicide because of indebtedness. But I dont know how much we can directly blamed on the company or or its agents. So if someone buys Monsanto cotton safety by cotton seas and you grow cotton

farmer has to make an agreement to not use that cotton to plant more cotton that they have to buy more seeds. That is right, of course, that's. Where gets really confusing with people because we're why it's a natural process is natural process. If you buy that corn mean and you take that corn and continue to grow corn, that's always been how farmers have done it through the beginning of time. Now, all the sudden some company comes along and says no, we when that court with license you that corn, you grow, the corn, once and then you have to continue to buy seeds Hamas to grow corn. That was never the case before in human history. Is one company comes along? and demands that, and that was connected to the suicides of these people in India, that this is a totally new situation. The very very much not a new situation. Plant plant variety, protection and protection of plant genetics has been around since the nineteen thirty's.

And farmers, as I mentioned before, had been doing the strictly by using hybrids which dont yield decent plants in the next generation. So you had to buy him from the company every year. More recently in you, if you wanted to- let's say you bought it apple tree for your apple or apple Orchard, from Coronel University, one that Cornell University device. So we only talk about Monsanto. Let's say a public university, the apple trees are all propagated by vegetative, cut. You cut off the little branch grow routes on it grown a tree and um. You sign a licensing agreements non gmo, but there's things like that: straw of strawberries from University of California, Usanga licensing Grahame. What does entail its? It says that you will not propagate those plant materials as a farmer that you'll use them to grow your crop and that when you need more you'll buy more in the reason and wondered when was this done all these have been done for for decades and and its more

For our part, seven easy eighties, like one when was this built one started started back, is as long as the nineteen thirty's, but he wasn't really done very often, you really start the sea, an escalation of plant variety protection, Non GMO plant variety protection in the last couple decade, so in the nineteen thirties did they did what he would say with apples from by that someone mon, figured out a way to selectively breed a really excellent apple. They protected, though, cease to the point of view bought seeds for them

apples and planted, and you are not allowed to extract the seeds from the apples it you planted and grow new seats of our new plant. So ably I sort of you couldn't apples. Aren't apples are propagated by the cuttings rather than seeds, because every seat is a genetic mess. You wouldn't you can plant an apple it by an apple red, delicious apple. You can plant the twenty seeds inside and you're gonna get twenty plants, that are nothing alike, and none of them will have decent fruit, none of the ones that have the though blockbuster traits, and this is why there has to be protection for us at University of Florida to grow in a new orange variety might take thirty years. It might take acres and acres that cost the university hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to borrow or to leave the pests treatments the fertilizer, the water, the labor. It cost hundreds of thousands, maybe a million dollars to bring that new variety to market into have to just give it away. Is it ends a breeding programmes?

so? I wouldn't a solution, be to publicly funded research so that the people benefit from So, instead of a large cooperation being able to lock down this perfect arms at you develop the University of Florida. Instead, the taxpayers dollars, which goes towards the research, creates this beautiful plant that everyone is allowed to benefit from. Well, that's what that's? What happens is that the public good or the Urbino Public Research, publicly funded, says you get a little dribble dollars, but Are breeding programmes are very much self, sustaining in many cases that you need to commercialize your best selections or your best fruit. In order to be able to keep the breeding programme going so the university has to generate money through its breeding programme and then it has to protect that money. To ensure that they will continue to receive money from all the different things. Are develop in lab, which will just

finally about a money that is spent on research and in its now much I mean we give a tiny bit that comes back in terms of individual in percentage, it's not much at all, but old. Most of it goes to the breeding programmes that allow them to continue to be leading breeding programmes and hire people and least land and produce the next varieties for the public, and the only way to do that is to make sure that people don't take your orange and take the seeds and plants new oranges and end because, if people do illegally propagate this compete against the nurseries that are doing it legally and selling at the farmers. You have a couple problems. One. Is you lose control of the the product quality? Is it really true to type what people say? It is then far the really the beneficiary is the farmer. We make something that the farmer and wants and that the farmer is desperate for our farmers need, and we have it at an orange problem. Right now in Florida, that's coming here,

We have sixty million citrus trees that are dying and were doing everything we can to identify resistant material, not GM out literally dying from something called citrus screening disease, long long being it's a disease- that's a good signal- is precisely my eye. He was the

Citrus, greening diseases, a disease of the bacteria bacterium blocks the vast glitter of the Orange tree and it spread from tree to tree with something called the sill it and an insect than theirs. Chileans of in this thing bites one infected tree, goes to another and now spreads that bacterium that can live in that tree for five years before there is any symptoms and then the tree just get sick and starts to die. We ve got an orange industry that is half as big as it used to be, and we need a solution and that's why were, and so, if our it's, our breeders are making everything they can to generate new trees, accelerating the process, everything they can and if they can get that new tree after they spent millions of dollars. Sum of from the USDA tied Dennis via solution, there has to be

for some of that funding to come back to the programme to invent the next generation, so that now we're ready when the next threat comes. So what would be the solution like say? If you have some sort of bacteria, that's infecting these these plants and killing these oranges? What could be a bit and shall solution to that and what would be the ramifications of you didn't come up with a solution so that the cool part about This is that it being where I am at the university- and I am the chairman of a department that does everything from organic, unsustainable, biology all the way through space biology. You see, people attacking this was so many ways were changing the plants, nutrition or changing just the route stock, so citrus trees are a bunch of routes in us. In a science you glued together graft him together. Talk about a frank and food were building route

stocks that can generate resistance to the bacterium so that now and you graft on asylum, maybe it will be resistant or doing everything from insect control or doing everything from essential oil treatments, novel drugs that are used in humans and approved for humans, being applied to see if they can kill the Sylla Logan Antibiotic or supplying. Well, it's hard to do in a biologist because of the resistance factor that people are resistant to using antibiotics on trees because they're afraid they'll get so this where this is the defensive. Weird

science, environment that we have to work in as public scientists were trying to identify compounds that are approved for use in humans or approved for use on food that might have a shot at it and we're trying everything the one things. Some of the things that have worked very well are gmo solutions and so airs accompany in Florida. That is looking to commercialize spinach gene in orange that solves the problem. We have a couple of them at the University of Florida for an hour late, Alfred Facility, where their job, that directly affect the bacterial growth and they work. Well, and they are not harmful to humans and the trees are now five years old, with no symptoms. So here

example of a GMO solution. It's not Monsanto. We cannot solve this problem with breeding not easily anyway and hear something that we can solve this in five years: thousands of families, thousands of Florida families, thousands of California, families- are watching their or watching their groves waiting for the yellow symptoms to appear, and we have solutions, but people will fight us tooth and nail from applying them and that's where eyes, a public scientists. That's why I want to be here to talk to you, because I'm looking to appeal to people's intellect to divorce the technology from Monsanto divorced this technology, that that you have in the public sector that can be used to solve public problems that are important. So this is a tremendous amount of fear. That's attached to these subjects, and with that fear this off, very little investigation, which is unfortunate, but it also

very rare- to get a personal you to sit down and talk to them and explain this, and it takes a long time and That's! I really appreciate your being here for this, but there's there's a lot of people have that are founded in fact and founded in actual consequences like Mercer. What Mercer come from it needs medication resistant strains of this horrible staff infection that people get, but its staff. I've had staff, it's horrible, its nasty, the antibiotics you take a ruthless and they leave you a zombie had if I had a headache Terrible news? I was really. We took Bailey open up a jar pickles. You know the feeling, the the the medication has created a resistance to this medication. Bacteria that have survived the result medication and have grown stronger because of that- and that is a fear that people are worried about that. There is a balanced and age

and that when you screw around with that balance, there's unintended consequences and oftentimes they can be deadly like Mercer and This is something that I think people are, and I mean it makes, gives them com. To worry about someone pudding. I buy onyx in their food, whether it's in there chickens or whether its and their which they have started to do less and less of unhealthy. Was Thyssen Foods that public he stated that they were gonna, significantly decrease their use of antibiotics and try to cut it out entirely because a public concern thing was Thyssen footsie true, but this is a real concern. Rhyming does not make sense that people worried about that will absolutely. I think it I'm not so worried about the that the meat industry and antibiotics that doesn't phase me too much, but that idea of Mercer, ok in all of our resistant bacterial strains. That comes because of an over use of a silver bullet technology.

Things? Come about because the mom has a screaming kid who says he must have an ear infection? Summoned a demand for my doctor that I can get antibiotics. It comes from those of us saying not taking them correctly in taking a few days and then not taking the whole bottle as we're supposed to buy see. I've been told recently that that's not the case that what they had Scott Day. They believed that for a certain amount of time, but now they no longer believe that its necessarily take a fool that doesn't do anything bad to create a or to take a shorter dose of it. Ok, I don't know the literature on that's I'll have to Al Qaeda should get back to fortify the source. I tried to shoot from in other stuff, I'm rewrite solid, but the long story short, is that in a came up a lot on line, if we say way into that they talk to twitter feed. Before we talk

a lot of concerns about the superweeds issue and its the same idea that, because the round a persistent technology has been so successful it for farmers that it's what they over you other constantly use. Now you see resistant weeds that invade those fields that are resistant to the to the compound just like in Mercer, in its from using a silver bullet technology. The reason that that's. A problem is because the process to come up with the next generation of of solution is so arduous and so expensive that we stick with the old technology and we can come up with something new fast enough, so this is bullet technology. This antibiotic that we ve created to deal with very specific inspect infections. It works its very effective, so people use too much of it and because of that, and it creates this medication resistant strains of this and design of research done to fight off that medication resistant strains of it because it so cross prohibitive to do the work to create

a medical solution in the first place. I think you're right. I think, because the meat issue member go back to this idea that DNA as natural mutation, unnatural problems and replication that give new information in a cell, and when you get there Mercer infection, those cells are dividing every twenty minutes. And you have millions of em and solve the chance of one gaining. The ability to metabolize you're antibiotics is actually pretty good. And when you're talking about billions of cells over many generations? That's where these things come from. It's kind of funny, because actually a heaven

ointment on Wednesday morning, because something out of my lab, I have something that looks like it would be. A potential ability to make the next generation of mercenaries were actually gonna tested on Mercer in something that I came up with an plants, though, that were process were patenting. That makes new compounds that could be very helpful against other creatures outside of plants. Ok with one of the things that troubles people the most about genetically modified things, whether its foods or whether its animals or anything they were mess around with, is the potential health risks for the people that consume them. That is the biggest problem broke the biggest concern people were. Cancer and I've seen people tweet. Does it you you're a scientist but you're, not an oncologist you're, not a cancer expert you're, not dealing with people to get sick from certain things. What evidence is Annie? Is there that

medication, or rather that on genetically modified foods, cause disease in people, cost sickness and people? Yes, this is the big issue. Let's start, let's look at that backwards, we been growing these things in eating them now for eighteen years. Studying them a lot longer thirty in terms of feeding them animals and everything else. There has not been one case of one single health effect. That's been attributed to this I'm so it looks like it's In my perspective, this has got a these are some of the safest products in the history of humans that their end so we haven't seen anything come out on the other side of this, these are some of the most extensively tested crops in the world. They start on the drawing board You say you're going to take a gene that from bacillus thuringians Us Bt gene.

The thing that we use in its actually called cry, one eight or whatever is called cries. The acronym we welcome to details. You take this gene from the bacterium, a bacterium that used to protect organic produce works fine there and you take that gene and codes the protein. So it's the information from the sell that allows the cell to create this protein. That targets, the God of Lepidoptera insects, o the caterpillar of of certain birds months, are numbered, butterflies and moss, and now the plant makes this protein. You can do the tests in vitro. You can say: does this protein effect cells? Does this protein affect animals when you feed it? Does it affect animals that you feed a tremendously high levels? All those tests are done, add nausea, and this is a natural protein, that's digestive, just like any other protein, so

Is there any risk at all of messing with food and introducing antibiotics in food, whether it's in the tree of orange and the the amount is? Is there any risk for humans that consume that absolutely absolutely I have to answer it. Like a scientist. Ok, you reach it. You can never say, there's no risk and what we I have to say is- is that there is a risk in anything we do with genetics, but we live in a time where we have this unbelievable sensitivity to detect something in a plant. We can look at the metabolites that we can change, take a plant as it is at a gene and see what changes with unbelievable resolution. We can look at every single protein. We can look at every single, Jean that's turned on or turned off. We can look at where the gene this added is integrated. We can understand metabolites profiles are screen for specific Carson

regions. It is so easy right now to be able to do a very careful assessment. You know I'm not an ballgame to her people. Farmers are either I mean they're there. What they want to produce wholesome food for people. My job as a public scientist is to use my ability to dream and think of ideas and solutions for public benefit you ve got tens of thousands of me out there. The person who found something wrong would win a Nobel Prize for this it it's that much of a big deal. If there was something but to play devils advocate sure. If there was some sort of a reaction in one percent, the p board less than what would say one tenth of one percent of people that was deadly, but the company there is the big am or you know, some other company is making a billion dollars a year offer this there will be tremendous amount of pressure to continue that money flow in

whether its through Nazis through scientists. I certainly wouldn't think it would be through people like you, but I would think that somewhere, locked away in some this high and a gun. Turret is some evil asshole who and a giant stake of the corporation and he's like Madam die. If they are cool care, is money? Does there's that that's the thought? Does the big worry is that they would hide it like you know the story of GM and the ignition jurisdictions, which is not a great example. They hid the fact that their ignition switches were faulty and people died and now they're being sued in its horrible and the that's g. I mean they made the corvette they made. The bell I mean this: is their houses possible that people that may Cadillac would be evil? The first two letters of GMO conspiracy, nor was also GM team, just a time Iraq or to hear her, but the big deal as I

I agree with you when you start talking about money, you can look at many examples throughout history, whether you're Talkin cigarettes, you're talking where you see examples where money is bought, influence and in short, but the beautiful part of this is that science always wins and that you do find out. The truth comes out eventually and for these companies that are producing these products. In my opinion- and I am not with these key please. I can't tell you how they think they stand to make a lot more money by making a product that's thoroughly tested and being queen with anything they would find. That would be problematic. The other thing that's really important here is that

we know so when you say you're, gonna move would say now we're gonna move talk about rice that you can add genes to to make it have high beta carotene content, higher vitamin a lack of golden right, olden rice. You know what those genes do cause we studied and carrots. We understand the products they produce. So there's a plausibility aspect to this. To that, when we take this from carrot and put it in rice, what's the difference, maybe there are some differences and we can test for the but it starts out with the plausibility. This isn't magic and voodoo and weird back room. I yell. Let's, let's see what this lever does so the ideas that have we, carrots and rice, together as food. That's not much different thence, blazing carrots and rice together and likely, if you're not allergic to either one of those things you now can we learn to this rice. Ukraine

they have Sunni, and even if you are allergic to carrots, taking one gene out of it that doesn't have a immunological footprint on anti genetic footprint in humans, like the genes associate beta, carotene production don't have you build a move, those in the rice and have no problem. That's a good point. The point of allergic because biodiversity is, is it The huge issue when you're talking about food in general that some people have exe, mainly differ reactions, words to peanuts or to shellfish, or to have rights, things are most of us in joy, but there's a few people that severe reactions is very same thing and this natural completely totally natural. This is

the question when it comes to certain types of medication, if you're dealing with these outliers, if you're dealing with this one tenth of one percent of the population where this this chemical reactions happens inside their body completely natural, which should we stop the product a peanuts. Should we stop the production of shellfish? I say fuck, no, I love peanuts and I love shrimp, but if you're dealing with medication. That does the exact same thing and reacts with the biodiversity exact same per cent of the population and could potentially be fatal, like shellfish, can't like peanuts can be fatal. People have died from them. What do we? about that and this is this is actually Elsa dilemma. It is, but it in a way it's a dilemma that this kind of transgenic or gmo technology can solve on. What's really interesting,

bout that, as we know, what the food allergen proteins are very well. You know that the protein and peanuts the proteins and saw the proteins in wheat that cause the car allergies, and you can turn those off and make them go away. Musing transgenic technology in it's been done. We have allergy free peanuts in the lab, so this peanuts, the people or the other of commercially available. No. Now because people are afraid of this this is what kills me here. We are making solutions, we have theirs wheat that still makes decent bread where the gluten gill ad gluten. Are the gladden and the other one lieutenant have been shut off? It still makes too and bread. You have soy that you can decreased specific allergens. We oh, what the allergens aren't food and can turn him off, and sometimes it makes to the plant the little different or makes the product that you like the wheat. When you take out the major gluten, it could change the bread structure, but it still,

that the other ones kind of ramp up to to compensate? So we can make a better product using this technology, but we exist. I mean these things exist, yo they're, not they're, not some wild fantasy of the future. It's just that they would never be direct related because of the costs and because the industry's associated with them, the peanut industry, says no way. We don't want people boycotting peanut butter. Just so just have a few kids, you know have problems with the allergy instead to me, that's a total injustice that tries me cry, so you feel like this could all be eradicated, but in nature, these things are allocated in a much more disturbing way in nature people that are allergic subpoenas even die, and that's no more expressed in the genetics. That's that's the natural method of doing the concern with any these remarks. Genetic modification to lay person which I am most certainly lay is that you

or creating something that shouldn't be there. The year creating something eat. On the consequences of this, like the wings of the butterfly and create a hurricane that stupid fuck. That shit drive me crazy. That's not. How are you goddamn hurricane is made assholes butterflies, don't make hurricanes shut the fuck up? No, no! No! It's a chain of events. It's no its, not notes, fuckin, whether system and has to do with the planet. It has to do with the atmosphere that do it magnetic That's do a lot of different shit. It doesnt have do it. Butterflies, independency, that's exactly we can sit around all day and talk about what are the unintended consequences and they get this all the time right letter that what? If? What? If what if- and I can tell you that today on June fourth, two thousand and fifteen, twenty thousand people are going to die because of insufficient nutrition, that's a problem that I can tell you exists. I can tell you that kid's will have allergic reactions to peanuts. Here. I can tell you that our sixty

citrus trees dying- and these are problems Monsanto is gonna fix. These are problems that I need to fix that guys. Like me, people like me need to fix in we're being hand oft by an irrational fear of a good technology, and you and this irrational fear of a good technology comes about because of what they consider to be a greedy corporations. This fear of greedy corporations, because we look like we talked about GM, and then we can talk about you. Talk about other corporations that have moved in two countries a poverty stricken and taken over and abuse their natural environment, and that we have- see a money with especially corporate entities with this idea, of constantly need to make more money every year to justify what they're doing to their shareholders me. This is the reality of these businesses, these info growth businesses and we associate them of carelessness. We souci

damn with not caring about the people who work for them or the people that they affect in environments that they build their plants. This is one of them concerns that people have is the diffusion of responsibility. That comes with being a part, a single piece of alarm entity that is ultimately doing at least some bad right. I understand that you known as in the old punk rock I am. He says that you are willing to hold on hold on Europe punk rock on game played and yet play guitar forensic more title, four: four! Why, in same war, tomatoes didn't see me sing me a little in Saint Maur tomatoes? How to go well are best ones were called. I rocky suck Iraq Usanga, we had us, we did Tonker Spirit of Elvis where a giant dancing dead, Elvis would come out on stage and not an alleged it. The name I don't know

I owe it was it was there was we what we were called dangling units, but then someone already had that so many of us it's kind of spinal tapie, so we were in seeing work to meet us. We were the coolest ban that no one ever knew of your fuckin video, no area. There you go. I rock you suck Haslemere sullenness sets out your share that I live in an asshole you I'd, like you didn't say, the work is a respectable now. Well, I am a professor. I know what do you do in this ban? I play guitar. Four may be the first few years and then switch over to base. Did you sing at all, very well, but I think you can hear may come up right here. I do have a little thing here. Come on up in a second kind of Motor Hetty before not bad, work out music. This is me here.

Yes, you jumped in there and that here that's you tat. I was made a year. Was this the most was nineteen. Eighty nine may be eighty. How old were you back? Then? I don't know they now need to us twenty twenty two: how would you forty eight yeah, ok ass, we played all over the place. We did a lot in in Wisconsin, real big, and we had the costumes we head, like. I had a summons outfit that I wore with gigantic high shoes and the guy, who is the singer dressed as a tomato and let himself on fire, and it was before great white,

all homemade gas pyrotechnic Show Tom was fantastic and in their people that came to see us loved it got ape. Nobody knew where all that's the best part was. We would pound our audience with produce. At the end we throw tomatoes Adam display you involved in in agriculture bank them not really. I was I say I haven't even been in Very recently, I was a basic scientist. I studied the nuts and bolts of dna and nuts and bolts supplant physiology and dumb, but at this time of your twenty back. Then you presumably had gone college ready and Were you studying agriculturally what was connected? The tomatoes and people throwing vegetables that you others such as luck now, coincidentally, is cheaper than throwing jars of pickles and was in and I would you not of saying what I already we produce was involved in EU even in your pencroft, so we got a little circle. Yes, I didn't have an exit, that's a coincidence. More than because

the money? One is a good thing. I didn't want to study reproductive physiology. I guess you and day you ovaries at the, but I would be the best thing they could throw. We think dicks, but going back to answer your question, so I saw the guy in me, who's who doesn't, who hates is cable company who hates, as you know, the people of southern gas or ass. I look at companies Monsanto and others as being the way that farmers who are my real clients are enabled, and so whether or not I like who their buying it from there, the folks who are the ultimate beneficiaries of the technology and the other That's really insulting

their exciting thing for me is one: small companies can use something like GMO technology to gain a unique market niche like Okanagan specialty fruits. They make this apple, that doesn't term brown when you cut it and they have for full time employees are they from organ their therefrom. Mom was washed in Canada, Oakum Oda. There is what is Okinawa me, a location or an indian. We're dissipate yeah things both. I think it's a, but they they grow. If this apple that, when you cut it, doesn't Brown, which is a great trade. It uses an apple gene to turn off an apple gene and in other words, the GMO modification puts this gene in backward, so it shuts off the indian innate Con contract in a gene off their gene and then the apple doesn't brown when you cut it, which is a great trade. If you want to have apples and processed products or apples as yoke, sliced apples and mags or whatever for full time employees, so

My whole thing is: go ahead and hate your Monsanto March against them. Whatever I don't care, but do you really is that when you dress like a b and lay on the ground and go into convulsions and say that this is biotechnology, that's bad! That now you're affecting the people who buy that apple. The people who I would come up with a solution for further, but the people who need bananas in Uganda or the people who eat rice and southeast, Asia that need a more nutritious rice that by mixing together biotechnology and agriculture and conflicting that with companies and things companies did or didn't. Do you automatically take technology out of the hands of the people who, in the people and the solutions that we care about things like the environment, things like farmers, things like the needy. We have those solutions and that's the thing that just by the by the Monsanto Phobia is dangerous. Will I think, a good

part of what the problem is? It can be attributed to the idea of people not being responsible for actions, because their part of a collective group being concrete, completely unnatural, and I think that if people had actual per if the idea of a corporation was was not that that cooperation would be immune to the actual people being involved in a corporation wouldn't be immune to responsibility for everything that corporation does that's one of the reasons why businesses get an LLC right limit whatever it is cooperation the ideas of protect you. Some are another it seems, are a legal definition of you, that's different than you outside of a corporation, which is weird. You know it's like people, you're a fucking do Ok, if you're, a dude, if you close of Kevin Folder LLC, I'm still Can you man, you right here shut your same guy, but if you do something

under the guise of your corporation there's a completely different legal ramification than if you do something on your own, like bankruptcy, things on those lines you not as responsible for debts. I think that might be the problem, though the problem might be. I know that you're a decent person, Nice person- and I know that what you're trying to do is noble and just in true and in the vein of science. I I one hundred percent believe that I think that what people worried about is when someone like you gets to working for some big giant group is why people keep saying that you're some sort of a ship or that other foe was it? Take you at equation, other folks that are working for Monsanto they're doing and they make money with the corporations give a fuck about people. That's what we have to stop. We have to stop this idea that a bunch of people together collectively can do something. It's really unethical and They can do it in ruin and natural environments and not be response. White. The BP oil shale

Everybody knows it was all kinds of factory in shenanigans that went on to protect the people that were involved from that Bp We'll scandal, those people that have been profit in insane sack religious amounts of money for a long at a time when it came time to pony up that money and clean fuckin mess up boy. Did things get weird avoided, get legal and complicated uncomplicated people given non disclosures designed to make exorbitant monies, are clean up and people are paid off, and there is a lot of thuggery involved. That What people worry about when it comes to genetically modified foods, were worried about? Is that the method of action that corporations have been proven to take, that is to protect the cooperation as a it as a unit? to do so in act collectively in a way that you would never act as an individual agree. John, and I guarantee you that ninety percent of the people that went to March against Monsanto drove a car that used oil that may

came out of a bp well sure in so here's an example, though you'll go ahead, Haiti Corporation, but there still using the products and when's trying to shut off no one's going to the gas station, and nor can the pump out my hand when I go to stick it my car. Yet there are people who would feel very comfortable, depriving farmers of the right to buy the seeds that they choose and for sulphur to me again it's? If there is a social business issue here that needs to be remedied, there's gotta be another mechanism to do that, and I'm fine with that go ahead, hate and accompany you want. All I'm saying is: let's not talk about. That's not put out the bullshit that says that Gmos cause cancer. Gmos are causing autism that the herbicides associated with it are cause autism. All of that is crazy. Talk that takes us out of problem solving mode. It distracts from what the good things that we can do with technology. What is collective evolution, dot com as ETA, as are reputable website, not so

there there, one that has they there, also one that isn't really excited about biotechnology and other corporate stuff. I mean like nation, a change, there's a whole bunch of him, and I read those things and I would say fifty to sixty percent of the stuff, I'm right there with you. You know I'm politically, allow, the American College, Professor, you know I I love seeing social justice. I love seeing social progress. I love those kind of stuff that I fight for, but these are examples where I see the technology that can actually enhance those things and that we can rest led away from the big corporations if we only stop making fabricating information about them. Yet water services, no aiming do social Joseph for that, but there this the study linking Gmos to cancer, liver, kidney damage and severe hormonal destruction disruption.

In rats right. That was one. The collective evolution had written a story about while they had they covered it. Just like everyone else did in what is. There was a sudden what what's wrong with the study, I think they're mixing together two different studies there, but the main one was one done by Sarah lenient, two thousand and twelve, and they use limited number of rats which are called sprang. Dolly rats, the rats that of our good cancer models, because their prone to cancers in so as your testing different compounds against them, you'll have a model which is at least susceptible to developing tumors in Sofia, testing deed, the toxicity of different compound compound he would use this rat strain. The problem is that by two years into the study, seventy five percent of the rats have or seventy seven percent have tumors Serafine chose this to do it to your study. He showed that the rats got tumors and in in the paper they even when table two in the control, I'll that even the controls got tumors

the same amount, yours well, they is statistically. Yes, I mean they, they showed fewer buddy and they talk about. Like you know, they talk about five verses, eight verses, nine, statistically the numbers, too small, to say that that was a significant difference, so wings five, eight or nine. You mean percent or number no out of how many twenty okay, so that could be. Just an issue with their particular group of rats. You had, as opposed to you, to do a much larger study to get a good baseline relatively within the statistical noise. So we twenty rats seems like a real low number two tests things. What was to hunt overall. But it was built in red groups. Backwards struck this, but that some of the main thing in this done the place that really collar for me and I do not have the picture- the lumpy rats on your screen, NOM shortfalls in yours, you know the famous picture at very low rats. Note that

authors, show three rats, one that got GMO food, one that got round up, one that got GMO food plus round up and they call it GM, oh by the way which scientists would never do with put in the tragedy name. They neglect to show you the control, rat and control Russia, fucked up to wealth and insignificant number of them but if you show is but I can, how do these? How do the? What did they do? How did they show that picture of these rights that are grotesquely malformed, which, if my lab, let rats go to that either? They are, if my lab, let rats get to that site age or any any lab in the United States. Let their rats gets that stage. They'd be shut down. That's animal abuse to its inhumane treatment of animals is both mean that something that I feel very strongly against. I really so really dislike the idea of testing things on animals in the first place. But it seems that that where a lot of the big improvements in medicine of come from bits.

Real moral dilemma. I mean, I think, using animal especially intelligent animals. I got. I saw a fuckin, see world commercial one of the main wanna throw a mug at my tv. They are talking about how happy these whales are in a fucking swimming pool. Those guys are whales are happy and we love them. What for you you do. We haven't stolen away from its family in over thirty years. It's like a slave colony, telling you how these people been born. Slaves dont worry about their happy being slaves, we loved them here, if you have that exact same goddamn, Seaworld commercial and you had it about human beings, you would sit, those people would be sought, for some of the most evil fox on the planet, but they don't think of orchids as human beings, when they have a cerebral cortex of forty percent larger than a human beings, even though they have dialects, they have a bunch of different words for all two things we don't even know. Standards are saying they have super complex methods of communication there, every human, like did we they just all alter their environment

because they don't altering their environment and they can't smile at us in I've articulating lips, we choose to think of them being inferior to us and is acceptable to have them in a fucking swimming pool? You know- and I think that's dark and I think that's We even when I think one day when we figure out a way to turbid. What they're saying and have like a Google translate for killer whales? It's gonna be a mess. Seaworld they're gonna go to jail immediately. I don't want to watch him. It's fuckin horrible. We love them. Fuck you! You do, don't love them. If you love them, when they were p, you'd. Let them go. I got away to let him go. He fucks even look at zoos when I go to zoos, see that cheat. This damn thing is both be running. Seventy five miles an hour after an antelope and sittin there lay and on a shelf, exact and all its reward system, its genetic reward systems. Are there they're not satisfied? like a lion killed. The woman did the woman who was a game of thrones expert editor here, but this shows that Safari Park and either

open heart. Irony of it is she's a conservationist. She loves these animals and she she wanted to take photos of them and she wants to protect them from poachers and she left the window open. The fucking Lion daughter jumped in the cage I jumped into the car and pulled her out and killed her in front of everybody, and it's it it's it's. A hard bought horrible horrible thing, but that's what lions do I mean that is their reward system. That's why they're here in two thousand fifteen, they have a predator pray, ward system and that reward system is being recognised at all in zoos, that's one thing: one aspect of their life: it is probably as satisfying and his primal is intercourse, is to them, and they are not allowed to express it and that's a fucked up thing mean zoos are? Aren't you would anybody says they're doing all this great work to do all the work they do it the wrong way to do it the wrong way. You know just you can't like a monkey. Fuckin cage people just stare at that's gotta, be torture. For that little thing

there's a monkey at things, Colorado's zoo, the one I think it was cholera I forget which do it might have been the one in Griffith Park, whatever the fuck. It is this a monkey that was how willing, like I'd like a mad man He was just holding onto his cage nor screaming into the night, and you like tell me that's any different than some Ghana Psych Mord, whose trial in aliens with giant fuckin, watermelon sized eyes are staring at him all day. How is that any different? It's not it's not! I agree I have a hard time with special mammals like I can't I don't I choose not to get involved in that I'd know. There's your educational aspects of zeal, the logical there I'll run in a tea. Well, maybe I don't freak out so much about analysing to give a final they kind of like it. I mean it's like a food water would have brains. Are that period that doesn't seem to get too weird, but get the champs and share even

cats. You just see those things bears. I had a joke about it, though, that some animals, but the zoo, doesn't soon Bob. Unlike giraffes draft on seeing the mine at all like they let him feed babies cause the joke. Was that acts like another day with no lions and the like of Sony came up to a giraffe and said: listen man, I'm gonna, give you free food. There's gonna, be no predators whatsoever, but you can't walk as far there If we do this, because the jury life is goddamn, terrifying all day, so for giraffes The zoo does really seem the bottom like, especially if you like Santiago, which has an awesome wildlife park, its huge like as far as usual, that place is top of the food chain is that place gives him enormous spaces but again Matters are allowed to express being a predator wheat. There was an iraqi zoo footage, see if he could find this. They let us go loose and Iraqis. You, and this is how they feed their lions. Sense

cultures. This is how soldiers film this at the beginning of the war, and they just they just have a goat and they go. It's Fuckin Jurassic Park The goat is just a let out of his gait and the goat walks up. And the lions realise the goat is there and then wounds or all ottoman they tear this fucker apart. That's how zoos are supposed to be that's what I'm goddamn zoo should be. What we're doing is bullshit you give em a plate of meat, we're at rub: zoom, Portugal, my wife and I were there a few years ago, therefore conference and we went to their zoo. It's really nice, so Zoo in Lisbon, and one of the monkeys and other big hateful monkeys, like a man other minerals, like thirty or forty monkeys and one cage, and then one of em comes out between the bars and starts walkin around. They just came out of the cage, are walking around dinner was pretty funny because all the parents are letting their kids touch it. Malta, since its bad bed, primate decision here, that's a shit, yeah you're, the dummy, not the monkey. No here is really this these.

These goods. They just open the door and let him out, and then they release the lines they opened. The gate and the lions just come charge and in because they know exactly what the fuck is going on, and you know I remember p watching it stated that its cruel, this The reason why you think it's cruel is because we have been sheltered and some weird way to think that our way of living should be imposed on animals and that's crazy. That's crazy, thanking the idea that you should give a clear this. The lies just jump out and boom take these goes down and they all jump, and they all know what they're doing. This is what they do every day, and this is how they eat but the idea that this is somehow brutal goddammit? This is what it's called bein a cat is what counts do what you're doing is brutal by giving them pray cooked meat. They are not allowing them to express this charge, they must get the bar. And and community that they generate together because of killing

surviving off that killed together, Pullman beings have it in guarantee that lions have that its well and you allowing them to bond in the same way as a part of establishing the packing during the communities as well. Who was the better hunter learn from that Hunter locally bite sent neck. You know they all they'll learn from each other. They they did. The mothers teach them babies how to fight they teach them at a trip things and chase things. How do they they play with each other? They trip each other just like they want to trip game, and we don't. We not allow that's fucked natures, cruel. It's the way it works and its more cruel to not let them expressed their nature. This idea that you, feeding them and animal that somebody killed nowhere near the cat. Some other more ethical than letting the animal kill the care of the cat kill. The animal is preposterous. Sis fuckin idiotic: it's crazy picture, this video or other that's what they do. Man well, don't say the erect

He never gave us anything tat. They gave us a little bit of that, but do you think that there is there's an ethical way to do tests on animals that would satisfy everybody. Almost Is there a way I mean what what ethical way with their even be, I think, will in the end. I think that we have go back in this. Isn't my my area by any stretch, but animal testing is a really important part of biology, really important part of pharmacology. When you look at how animals are used as drug models like round right now we have. We have animals like mice that express our don't.

Express a gene associated with a brain function that we know is impaired, say with a lesson humans. So essentially we have these mice that will develop a less. So now you can use compounds to see what solves the problem. You can build these models, earth S. Cancer models arm are many, and animals were you. Have these animals that are predisposed to specific kinds of cancers are ailments that now allow us to do testifying them, and I think that's a really important role for this, that that animals can help us identified. Help the human condition, which then can help us help animals. Is there a way to do it, though? That's going to make everybody happy, I don't think there is. I think it's one of those things we have to say we're better than you or or that we have to say that these are that this is just like when we raise animals to eat them. I guess I mean where it it's. It yeah, there's a purpose for these animals that we bring them into our provision. We raise them humanely and we are very soon

animals that are in these drug experiments by definition, have to be very carefully. They have to be happy, they have to be, as is happy you can be and in what is a rat and care? How did you know that arise happy? Well, because Physiology, that's involved, and if you start seeing, if you have read that are living in conditions that are sub power or animals that are not treated, they won't give you adequate results from your experiments at you need to have incredible control with animals that are of well cared for and and give you a solid physiological baseline, were the only in we're. The only information being introduced is through your treatment. Do you know where being a species. This is your been accused of being a species est. I got a feeling, I will be short, lived this species IST thinking, the thinking that you who and human life is more important than other animals it it

I don't know if that's necessarily the case that were more important, but we certainly have more faculties to be able to control the outcomes of certain situations private of raw, through smarter than us, then decide do tests on humans. It would really sapwood NASA screw them level were not very smart. Write me we're very smart for four other animals, but were not very smart in terms of a lot of shit that human beings do that through proper shouldn't, do collectively, like pollution destroy should the environment so and so forth, proliferation of nuclear weapons that that's not smart. There's a lot of stupid shit that we do so. I think that worry, credibly, smart for being an animal, but were not necessarily smart in terms of the universal potential of intelligent life were not we're idiots. That's why Is this a million fuckin arguments you can make all day long, the gay men thing. The marijuana thing the war thing. This is so many stupid contradictions. The way human beings existent live their lives. If there was something there far more intelligent than that's like as intelligent

as we are to pigs, or, as we are two things that we think are small, like dogs are fairly smart, Whitcomb test what they did us you know you ever think of that, then that I never really think that very much and I mean I'm, I guess they relate, as he says, yeah there's only one way to get that smart, you gotta, keep fucking pink pigs and let the court lengthy stagnant needles and should the main ideas that we leave evolved. The species for a long time away from our common answers. There's another primate ancestors because of our ability to control situations and because we make decisions that ended more favourable outcomes. For whatever reasons those are for us, And so, even though we're not, even though we do a lot of them stuff- and I'm with you on that, I think we do an awful lot of smart stuff too, and I think the human capacity to create change that's favourable for humans is. Is it it's maybe you can do your own documentary. Al Gore had that won the ink intruding in and about the uncomfortable truth, the uncomfortable truth being you got a crack, some eggs to make an omelette and

There's a lot. There's a lot going on: try to keep human beings alive and sometimes you have to make a Decision- Africa, Nicht APOLLO when my boys hilarious, stand a comedian had some joke and want to fuck the joke, but it was about doing tests on a monkey to find a cure aids and was fucking areas. But I don't remember how the Jaguar, but something about battery cables and whose very funny, but the idea being, as I guess, yeah, I'm saying a more important ammonium say my mom, whose good die of cancer is more important than a rabbit I'm saying that I'm saying that a rat is not as important as my children. I say sorry, I'm a species IST nobody in, and I think that human progress has shown that sometimes the pendulum swims swings little bit too far the other way, and we can think of ignore

William and will soon as again as soon as you look at, instead of whether its money or the results being more important than the actions of the individual and the actions of the individual, not being ethical, not that's not be important. It's important results! That's when we ran the problem. That's so even circle it back. Then you knows this is why being a scientist is so cool is because I'm bound by data- and I am bound by hypothesis that I test using the best available tools and being a public scientist is really cool that the people who choose to do this. Like me and there's a lot of him in this country, we are the operating in the public's trust in the public's best interest, and I think that when see unethical behaviour when we see up, let's say interpretations of data which suggests that maybe we're going the wrong way. These things are caught in the peer review process. These things are caught when our grants are valid,

It is in their debated in the scientific literature, and so when we making steps in progress, these are very careful guarded, reviewed, reviewed steps that were doing as poor as a public science entered rise in. This is what's why I wish we had more support. I'm not here to complain about that. I wish we in that people say that you are you're from Monsanto and we know we worked. We get nothing compared to what they have and we were is university. We get something like three per cent of our support for urban corporate entities. Every else comes from grants that we go out and get in. So this is what so important about having in active public science enterprises to keep all that other stuff in check I think it is also important to try to understand them. Whole process. That's involved in science that the average person doesn't have background it at the average person. You didn't take science other than the classes red dissected frogs in high school. It's

There are ignorant of the process. There is no the process, it creates this data in and they don't. Stand where, where, where we come from, what we go through. If you talk to anybody, they'll tell you well unit Cities are just paid off by the companies and the companies, but somehow, but sometimes the case right, like we'll get overseas, do have contracts frequently with companies. It happens all the time, but that's because worthy experts will it and in other fields it's a much bigger issue financially like it's been a bit issue in setting of regulations for the stock market. Things like TAT, the people didn't university. You know I'm talking about economics, professors who made commendations than one of getting these huge jobs with the banks after it was over for millions dollar yeah. That's wrong too. I think. What's really important, though, is that a lot of the company pharmaceutical companies will come to a medical school and say we need you to do this clinical trial, because you are the experts, the ones who know this. We trust you and if it doesn't work, you better tell us. No one's, giving us money to make them happy.

No one's telling me in this this one pisses me off all the time, because everyone You meet in science, others. So many of us that really do claimed have integrity is a first level. I would never do something because a company told me to do it or because a company paid me to do it, the punk rock and you would not that's right- fight their power. I fight the power no because, because seriously at the end of the day, you know I'm not a religious guy, I'm not. I don't believe that there's some great reward for me. What I'm leaving here is is a legacy and only a product of of my work and my record, and I don't want that Harnish. I believe you, one hundred percent are certainly not question that tell her body of you did. That thing was saying about mathematics, professors. You should watch a documentary called inside job or an inside job. It's all about the financial crashed. Fantastic It's really really really really well done. Documents that but Peter

are worried about people like you. You seem to be a great guy with a word about his evil scientists. That's what flocks up every, science fiction movie, did you see twenty eight days later now? Twenty days later, when the greatest zombie, in the history, the known universe. My personal favorite starts out because of medication that was created, something called rage. I forget what why they created for soldiers on whether, in fact these champs and then these chips get away by people, the people get it and then the zombie outbreak takes over the world kills everybody, except for a few call human caterpillar yeah. Well this does different, but this thing you mean centipede arguments that such don't watch that don't that's different now. This is this: a fuckin awesome move human centipedes, Guph, science, fun people say that he was an evil site. Yeah, that's good point, but

now days later was about a medication that they had intended for human beings and one terribly wrong. That's that's. The kind of scientists to people are worried about people were about the evil. People that are creating mean look, thereby scientists that have created a weapon. Ized draw or weapon eyes the biological weapons rather than they can use on people sooner. That is certain gases, Those are created by scientists like poisons that have killed untold numbers. People were also created by scientists. Absolute, listen, just guys, you were worried. People are worried about people that away fuckin smarter than them that might be plotting some evil shit. It's happened. Well, it's and in an you, look at the people always bring up in the GMO discussion agent Orange. Yes, you know which isn't herbicides called two forty and a number of herbicides work com.

And- and there was this whole rainbow of Herbicides- declared ancient blue agent green agent Orange. Was this too for de stuff, two four five t: there's there what they call synthetic auctions they make plants grow to death. Basically, and the government was able to weapon eyes a legitimate product for warfare and nothing to do with an evil sign necessarily, but it was implementation potentially by people who had an agenda to be able to expose an enemy in a jungle atmosphere along with the purification of those products to four five tea was the main one was dioxin, which is what kit, which were killed. People, Her undrawn harmed our own soldiers. That is one of the scariest things about human beings that were willing to kill your whole forest to find you, stop and think of health is we're. Looking for a man, we can't fire we're gonna, kill. Everything was gonna, kill every fuckin tree every Bush everything went to kill the whole forest and flush amount than today

he caught her. You know. Basically, you know the chemical daisy cutter, Canada, so crazy than someone. Ok, that somewhat too, can ruin the entire ecosystem, yeah go together and kill everything that moves so that our boys can go in there and kill the people that are high. But this was it. But this is an interesting example that here you had something that rather a really great scientists came up with Arthur Gulfs and came up to four five there to forty two control plant growth and control weeds, and it's a relatively useful compound that we ve had for seventy years. But yet people will say you're using agent orange on corn in we're not using agent Orange years. It's a growth regulator that was part of agent orange, that humans decided to weapon eyes against other humans so that that was that that was the creative first and then human beings took this and said well, there's some sort of a weapon eyes application of this very beneficial.

Cover right now and then in a compound they can be used safely and an agricultural context and has been since the nineteen forties see against not people weren't about the scientists are worried about the evil people that control of scientists and take that stuff and turn into this and then spread in Vietnam. Evidently, but we can't go forward worrying about about the small number it evil people that might be out their concern to do it there in others, always and a beast some guy who finds waited till. I saw a bomb and was underwear, but that doesn't mean we outlaw underpants. You know we have to we could, but, but the idea is that we need, think about what the science allows us to do. Not worry about the certainly be aware of malevolent uses on people could genetically engineer viruses and I I believe I've heard about the Russians doing this back in that during the cold war days to say, engineer, a anti body that would attack human mile and which is the stuff that covers your nerves, so that

You could essentially, in fact, people with a virus that would kill them because paralyzed them these kind of Things were discussed and biological agents and biological weaponry is there, but as has power in that dimension. I think that the main conversation here is is really: how do we take the same technology and use it for good? Essentially, what we're about is, is really what I was saying before that I think a lot of your hate comes from people that are terrified. They don't understand. What's goin on you know, and that's me the fervid into that, but I ask questions and ass. I trust you are right. It seems to make sense, but realistically, when you talk to me about the x, sons of genes. My brain is gone. There's a bunch of noises that represents things I dont totally understand less well, let's talk about things that we can make tat. No, no, no, no, not saying that there is anything wrong.

You know no right, I'm. I guess I'm kind of giving you an opportunity to say what are things that you care about, that I could fix or scientists could fix like what are some. What are some concerns about food that you, the interviewing, becomes the interviewer. What what are some things that you would about in terms of food or maybe food abundance or in what would you owed abundance is always a big concern for everybody, especially when you look at parts of the world where you see these, like. I have a good friend, I'm just in Randy comes on the pot cast and he used to fight you see, and now he works in the Congo building wells he's an amazing god, and he does this thing called fight for the forgotten, and goes to the Congo and he did it with some money that viewers generated to they build a bunch of wells that listeners the pod cast generated through Bitcoin, and then I'm ass, the donation built as well did this guy's dedicating his time to doing that, to giving you clean water. Like tat, I think, maybe the sign inside

bigger than the ability to credibly somebody obviously have to invent these water pumps and filters and figure out how to make these these wells, but portable and functional that that's really what needs to be done. We need to figure out a way to take the worst parts of the world and bring them to a higher standard of living and give people the opportunity to not live on dirt floors, were they drink and muddy puddle water in hoping that the fact that that it takes a guy like Justin to go down to the car, go and dedicate his life to that in a bunch of other brave people who are doing the exact same thing, but that countries never talk about it. We'll talk, all sorts of issues that are going on in the environment, all sorts of things about, though, what happens if the ocean rises, and we lose Malibu like everybody's freaking out, but no one freaking out about these poor babies with distended bellies, because their fill parasites huge human issue and if they were white people that live their lives,

they're from norway- and this is their problem of their all beautiful people over there from the game Thrones, now, distended bellies everybody be freaking out: want to go over there and save those folks, and it's it's it's one of the more disturbing sadder aspects of humanity. I dont know science can help, certainly with medication, with antibiotics and anti viral drugs to help these people to still have all these parasitic infections is incredibly rare and these tropical rich jungle environment, you know, that's, I think what would be the thing that I would look forward to the most to fix the world and stop this whole kill another picture living. Let me this is really a perfect example. I'm glad you brought that up the especially with you got with Congo Uncas Uganda's one, who I just met a scientist this weekend and he's a plant breeder by trade who he said here in the United States

everybody is screaming that they want choice. They want GM oversees Non GMO. He says over by us. We just want food and a very sincere man who is desperate for solutions for his country and I'm gonna work with him, and there are three things that could really help Uganda Now that there are actively on the ground there, three solutions for problems they have. They have something like: seventy percent of their calories, comfort or carbohydrate calories come from bananas and not like bananas. We have, but african bananas and bananas get have two problems, one of them both to bacterial two m pathogen problems against called us. Antimony they get by top throughout their genetic engineering, solutions that are in place that can solve both of those problems. There is also an issue that people there have vitamin a deficiency, so there are going blind along this golden rice line, you're. Looking at two hundred and fifty million to fight hundred million blindness as a year, most of it and kids and half of them die within a year and it's all

vitamin deficiencies doesn't vitamin a deficiency, and now there bananas that have the genes from a banana that produces vitamin e, that's kind of agriculturally useless, but they move those into the production banana from the Congo, and this is our immune from my Uganda and this is a Gates foundation, sponsored stuff and other people have done this. So now they a banana that produces vitamin a rural beta carotene, which is converted the vital and then the resistant to the two main diseases and it can be used, and you ve got Greenpeace and other activists organisations on the ground there, fighting it and you're telling people that this is just the way, Turner's coming in to take over and give you the food in the technology they reject, saying that occur, sterility whose resisting like this, whose who's that these are these are very, healthy western, funded organism, since that are opposed to genetic modification. They know that if Uganda develops these products and is allowed to give them to their people- and they solve a problem that now the house of cards in the way

turn world falls down. So you really believe that there's a conspiracy to keep these bananas out, because if the bananas go through and do good, which they think with you, think they will for sure the science says they will and the These people think it will as well and will open the door. Genetic modified foods go into these countries and they'll lose the battle. So because of that, their willingness sacrifices people getting this vitamin a rich banana? Isn't it it's not a conspiracy? It's our very good spirit. Oriole, though, is true. It's it's clear as day these an end in China. They tell people that it will cause and fertility, or that is a conspiracy when you agree. I guess it conspiracy it as a spires and arrangement of irony, I guess at his consorts is unethical and its unsure right on its, but it is something that is ended, but it's it's very transparent is what I guess I'm going for this, isn't some secret clandestine operation. This is something

does very well understood that this is what they're doing but to play devils advocate. Isn't it possible that they really truly are concerned that a company like Monsanto would get their monetary hooks into a country and start fuckin around? they are doing a bunch of unethical shed sure that's what they're worried about, and I think that something that they would be worried about. But let's not- throw the baby out with the bathwater. Well, let's not, let's not, except phantom fears for real fears. We get our people that need problems and, let's not say well, maybe Monsanto will be involved. So, let's not allow it. Let's let them use the best technology and, what's really of eternal licences, psychology profit from their use of it. No, these are the what's so funny about. This is that these are laboratories there. That said, we want biotechnology in there developing their own labs, neurons stuff. This dud professor, I met this weekend I'm gonna go there next year to help him set up a lab to grow coffee in in the culture, not GMO coffee, which is

be an interesting idea, but their issue, as is that they can make a tremendous amount of money by growing coffee for farmers, are growing. Farmers can grow coffee and have a very profitable operation, but you can't grow enough plants of the type that are resistant to the diseases and so we're gonna help them do that in in tissue culture. Where we can propagate tens of thousands of plants very quickly in a jar rather than by seed, he's actually going to sponsor a student to come to my lab to do that, and I'm going to go there and help him. But this is the kind of place where we can, where you can solve a problem with this kind of technology and where were being blocked, and to me, as a scientist, I think, of the twenty thousand people who die. I talk about when I give talks and I can't help get tears my eyes when you think about the malnourished people. I've met in my travels, who who changed me. You meet them. One time in it. You re, especially when you

their hand and feel how weaken small they are, and you dedicate yourself to how you're going to fix it and people say: well, it's all Monsanto. It's gonna give you cancers and all this stuff, that's not true. You block the investment in technology and the application of technology that can help So when we have this kind of conversation, I think about the energy free peanuts. I think about the golden Bananas, the golden Rice, the all the applications we have to some there's countless and we can't use them as of a fear of the technology, and you feel it just in ignorance of technology and if in ignorance of biology and genetics, but you also think that this there they have to be aware of this too. In order to make this grand conspiracy to try to keep this here

go to keep this out of this country. They they have to be aware that they are preventing good. They have to be aware. Yes, if so that's that's kind of fucked up yes, and I intend to be on the good side in. Supposedly the progressive sigh, the rightful southern side that everybody wants to, support and anti GMO causes everybody's terrified of Gmos, and then that's why in there, in the reason for this has been so, we ve you talk about the companies that that do it. They totally failed when they rolled out this technology. They didn't say here's how it works and let's go let's Take care of your fears they rolled it out and said here is what you get and people equated. This Frankenstein and in no evil scientists. We didn't get good educational front then over. Years, there has been a machine of documentaries. Books are the people who sell the books and documentaries the dangers of this, there are the ones who are making profits there. The shells were they're, the ones that, if they can be

dollar by scaring you with their product, and so they ve been running free scientists like me, have totally screwed this up to because the first time I talked to a public audience, by Gmos. Fifteen years ago I sat down, and I my bombed and what science and I told him about how it's done and details that they didn't need. I turned off more people die then I converted and only in the last three years really have a scientist got together and said. This is a crisis that our technology can't reach those who need it, and we need to rethink the way that we talk to them about science and it's not about beating people to death with the science hammer. It's about sharing ideas and things that we all really want an hour solutions that we can use in really separating a technology. That's very good from companies that you no good good, bad or whatever. We need to know the technology is good.

Yeah. What do you think initially caused the fear of Gmos? Do think it? What was there any particular story? They came out that misrepresented it. That became. Viral or what? What was it that started off this big fear of this aspect of science. I think there's he's been an environmental movement that has decried the use of any kind of chemicals in farming good reason good reason, and I understand that you got DDT and all these great examples back, I know a guy who's got bone cancer and all these kids. You grew up with had cancer as well, because they all lived near a golf course gear, and this shit that these two, though used the spray on the golf course got into the well water and can was lamp in their small community? These are, apples are in and when you go, I went out to Hawaii to talk to them and they all talked about. You know back in the day when the do you know they were? There would be a grow? The cane

They would use all these chemicals and whether the stories are true or not. I think there's a certain level of understanding that we did things differently back then, and we work in places like South America. They still do this if a little bit works moors better. Here the ready nations are really tight and how you can use a compound and how its allowed to be used and the residues that our present are all very well monitored, and I think that the times are changed, but but going back, your question of where did this come I think, people, whereas an environmental movement that was certainly on guard and I'm glad there their eyes were very happy about The problem is now that anything that any of their former flows in the environmental movement would produce whose Monsanto could it came out with a dinner the duck that makes called golden eggs and they would have said the gold is poised. Anything that comes from a company is going to be tainted just by name and in an that's where I think, a lot

this comes from and that when they came out with the tomato and back when it was on the market or any of the products that they made, it hasn't been. Let's Think of what we can do with this, but here just another way that this company is rolling out a product to gain world domination of a food supply and make money off chemicals. Well, it's because of what we discussed earlier. Theirs, I should say could be because of what we discussed earlier, because people have an inherent distrust in folks that are willing to copyright life, the idea that you all the copyright to some corn- and I know that you genetically modified- and I know that you change it, but what it is now it's life and if you do that to a pay, what happens then? If you do it to a pig, Why can't you do it to artificial livers? You know why can't you do at all sorts of things you could put. You could all the sudden copyright and in time human body and own a trade mark on human buys. You could spin, ethically design a type of human that the only way you can get your car.

To be alpha beta. Sixteen is you gotta get the alpha beta, sixteen Monsanto Jean inside of your kid I mean that this is not outside the realm of possibility. This is within a hundred years from now, though, be doing shit like that that freaks people out that a court, nation could own human life or the other an interesting actually, it's kind of a little bit off topic, but they have that now. Three parent kid, You know where they ve mentioned mitochondrial par with what, in the actual fact, is going to happen that kid, the mile If it comes out evil dunwood, then what is that? What if he's one day, the gonna fuck around, create the anti Christ right when this work comes from nodded? It's an interesting thought. You know but pleasure by more presence at Christmas, freer, multiple parents or a kid will not a burden on the kid if the parents get the vote. The custody of the custody of biomass and what are they disagree with the way they raise the child? And you have to agree like it's hard for a husband and wife to agree on specific this forest langley.

To be used and how to handle certain situations. Yet three people for time and in trying to be the dad. The good news is child support of behalf price coming? Does nobody mom's a broken down? Get I dont use to mothers cause, there's a mother that provided the nucleus of a mother that provided the rest of the cell goo badges sperm, good luck with all that that guy's, a pimp Ottawa such but the whole idea of it, but part about this. Those we blunder into the mad scientist, Rome again, let's think of things that have been done that are really positive and then even our patented technology. So you got a pig that was made that has a better ability. It has a gene that it makes saliva that breaks down phosphorus better in its food end. Phosphates, what about what it allows. The pig to do is have less toxic waste. They called it the Enviro pig. And it has because pigs in other Dara effluent is, is a problem and ten

keep it out in the environment's a good thing, and so they made the Enviro PIG and the virus pig as it does a crushed idea. Now There are only a few embryos left in the tank, a liquid nitrogen. They made this week heard of the salmon that they put us I am in gene into a salmon to make it grow twice as fast as it was originally developed in nineteen eighty nine and that the company that's been trying to get it approved has been added since the nineties and they ve got all the approval, but it's never been finalized in the beauty of this fish. Is it grows to harvest double size, as you know, are farmed fish in half the time so you're using half the stuff half the food? Have the resources to eat, make the equivalent amount uprooting, but would have these fuckers get out into the wild? thought of that your hawk spawn trout, other all females and their trip Lloyd. So they have an extra chromosome that makes them infernal, but doesn't

how every bad harm movie stars absolute? Let one of those listen also becomes Ledger Crocodile man, that's the creature from the Brok Lagoon, that's. It could be a salmon that you guys fucked with turns into a person, but this is it that some funny it because it because we always spin off into this new, especially where they should. We go into this idea that my fallen, but this is it always back to what is the way that this can break bad. Yet it is that's how I look at things in an in being an eternal optimist. I think of what are the good things we could do with this I expect no less IRAN, a guy who had a song call I live in and ass. I will think that you would be the eternal officer to a social commentary from us in on me that, just as we know where the fuck is it, but it is the kind of thing where my job is to sit around and figure out how to solve a problem right, and so, when you can come up with a fish that gets to eating size and half the time which could

you really relieve pressure on wild salmon fishing and put of put food into that a high protein and good food into the hands of people who don't normally afford fit. Like me, I don't buy it pursued biological stuff like that scared, the shit out of people You know what a lawyer is right to do so holy indicted, its occur. Between the lion and the tiger. It's an enormous, enormous cat, its biggest tat, we know of right. I mean, I think something happen, in the genes I believe its male lion and a female tiger, I might have a backwards, but the the the gene is regulating the size of the growth is not it's not the same, so something happens in the cross where it becomes infertile, because it's a hybrid but they grow do enormous size, cyclical size that goddamned thing it's. Some weird genetic modification, but you know not through

scientists in a lab through just cross Berea. That's a hybrid vigour yeah. It's it's a case that when you mix up genomes that don't normally by catches highs after that Christ, I wouldn't. I would have been rather like that good Lord, what it, what does she handing it better deck some food, whether you gotta keep those things super FED yeah, I'm really really really FED flicked, so they don't. You would think that EU goes back to our corn, in that this year we have great corn is because there are two genomes that wouldn't normally get together, that humans put together, seamless bananas, which, while the ones we have our, have an extra ceta chromosomes your seal, seamless, watermelon, hasn't separate set chromosomes. We been mixing together play.

All these precautions that are put in place to make sure that that these things can happen, and of course you know you can. We can always think the example of little mind. You know you nega flipper babies. Usually you can always think of examples where it didn't work, but what we tended dismiss are the hundreds of thousands of chances of things that worked in Panama. They can escape your inland, one of whom was going at super smart and figure out a crack. The say and evolve really quick and legs dude, however, but see that Tibet, that's the that's the there's all these precaution that are put him on ways to make sure that that these things can happen in. Of course, you know you can. We can always think the example. The little mind you know you nega, flipper babies. You can always think of examples where it didn't work, but what we tended dismiss are the hundreds of thousands of chance of things that worked better than expected. You know the thing that makes your computer grow better than.

You can have the equivalent of the APOLLO Landers a fire power in terms of computational ability on your wrist. You know even more than ever in these, but these are the kind of breakthroughs that we take for granted. Then we and we ignore always, but we have to stop worrying about the what ifs and start worrying about the what cans and that's where I really want to try to get people to refocus GMO discussion. What are your pressing problem? What are the things that science can do for you today, and I think that that's where this gets super exciting, but you can understand why people wouldn't worried right people who don't understand the science or it's never been explained to them. Certainly note dont know anybody like you. They just sit down with like If we do this for three hours, that even enough for me and not really like. You could probably explain this shit to me for months, and I would just be slowly working its way into my understanding. But people worry what they don't understand and they,

really worry about human beings. Quorum cos, playing God and manipulating genetics manipulating life. Even though that kind of what we always have done. Yes and there's a great radio lab podcast on the Galapagos Islands through a fantastic in one of the things about it, is their attempts to keep invasive species from entering the Galapagos Islands and plants She's we're going there from the bottom of people's feet, were they stepped in seeds, and then they stepped on the grass in these new species of grasses grow and pirates had left. Goats on the land so that they can come back and they have a food source when they would land on the island again, so they added it he's invasive old species that we're living alter and they realize fuckin way you can't like every. Thing used to be somewhere else and the maid sway problem. We start monkey and with those everything's. That's when people are worried because of certain outlier examples, when you forget about all that,

jobs that we plan. Others are totally unnatural right, I mean an Orange grove is like the most unnatural shit. Ever you dug a hole in the ground, put some trees that we're never gonna, be there and you get a whole irrigation. System in good of Napa and look at the what the wine vineyards have fuckin totally unnatural, that should does doesn't exist you? never gonna, walk through the wilds of some uncharted land and find a fuckin wine vineyard doesn't exist. You have to grow that shit if to make that a part of the environment, but sometimes it goes terribly wrong like they introduce rabbits in Australia. And they don't have predators. So the ravages Falcon went crazy and ran through the entire country like they were here. Rabbit problem. So then they brought over foxes. Yes, they will bring over foxes and cats and we'll kill the rabbits but tunnels, foxes and cats. Don't just kill rabbit, you fuck did engine and genetically engineer foxes that can only look at a rabbit as a predator as food source. Rather they kill everything, so they are irresponsible, like thirty

something extinctions in the entire. Country of Australia. It's fucked there. These fuckin foxes run run just kill in everything, they there so bad that they have a problem with their sheep, were the foxes or grabbing the baby sheep, as they're coming out, which is apparently like standard predator behaviour as freaking people out, because they, this is all because you metals introduced an animal to a place where it didn't belong. Then you tried to introduce a predator to compensate for it, and you see this chain of events that is really a problem. A marriage aerial nightmare for people that are they have to. The wildlife down there you have it did this is sold. But all these examples happen Certainly things do sneak out here and there you gotta go with that, but no one we want to talk releasing a new plant variety and we're not talking GM out, we're saying what say a new elite strawberry that we know sorghum or whatever that comes to our university. What's a sorghum cuz, I like strawberry, so kind of green crop that is indigenous for Africa, that use it for a biofuel now already, but strawberries.

Are we have Evaluation it has to go through. You have to grow for many seasons, multiple locations evaluate, is it invasive, for doesn't have the potential to be invasive, and if it does, we can't release it. We have to evaluate all the different metrics, and these are not gmo crops. These are just regular crops these are just selectively bread cross selectively bread. So you established that these seeds will grow. This big fat juicy apple size strawberry there soon. Reducing delicious and you have to do a consistently continually an isolated and have it down to one see that you can give them. They can test them. So essentially, we double or one plant essentially on the sea. The strawberries are another good example where you can't take strawberry seeds from a strawberry and plant them and get any two plants. The look alike that so

so you guys. How do you get those seeds? Then? Now you, every every plant comes from other plants. They make the little runners right and so one plant is that the strawberries that you get the strawberry plants you by their all clones, just like the banana, just like a blueberries? Oh, I see so not grown with seeds, their grown with a segment of the plant that you then replant that you're replant southern vegetate. Oh, why? So? It's like we'd the pattern of uclaf, so I hear a no due to grow it. That's the ideas that very able to vegetative. We, as they say, propagate these things, but all of this stuff is so carefully evaluated and with GM. Oh, it goes through FDA to make sure you can eat it. Then it goes to EPA to make sure that it safe for the environment and they

look at how does it affect insect populations are pollinators or whatever, and then that goes to you, Esther, who then test for farm application and invasive ness and farm. So these things are crazy, tested and all the what efforts are really well established because if their within- and I always have kind of the way I think about this is if we do want to soon. Companies are money, grubbing and horrible, give something or to go wrong. It would be the end of the company and gigantic lawsuits and soon self preservation, let alone profit to me. A decent product. These things are extensively tested. So what what? What do you think is one of the top unwarranted concerns that people have over genetically modified foods? I'm glad you asked that because I don't mean to be just dumb. I hate when I come off, is being just too excited and ambitious about the technology exists downsides to everything, but you have to weigh the risks.

Some limitations are better whisk versus benefits and some of the things that we seen as this resistance to weed out to herbicides, so one of the most useful GMO crops is this round up, ready or really what it is. Life estate resistant life, a state as the chemical round up? Is the brand name it's off patent now, so many companies make life sate. So I tend to go a life as eight when we discuss the trade, what it allows a farmer to do,

plant say soybeans you plant soybeans and then, as the soybean start to grow and the weeds start to grow, the farmer goes over the top with a with an application of the stuff colleague life, a site that kills the weeds, but the crop keeps growing through it and as the crop grows, it shades out the weeds. So then the crop is the only dominant thing there. The amount of life a seat that's applied is about in about a mug worth per acre in terms of active ingredient. It's a very potent chemical that disrupts a very specific part of the plants. Biochemistry he can make me no ass, it so chemic proteins, specific per and I M the chemistry is well known. We understand what effects in you don't have their pathway, so it's a very safe chemical for humans, lately, its under a lot of fire? Actually, now that people are attacking the in insertion process or the perpetrates themselves are going after the chemicals used in the process of using just DEC.

Michael over and over again on and on land. We talked about this idea with Mercer in what mutations and with the one that happens, to figure it out surviving. There are weeds that can, go through life, a safe, and when that one we can grow through because of a mutation. Now it drops it seeds and pretty soon you got a major problem because all the rest of the competitors are gone and these weeds take over and now you have to come up with other methods such as ploughing or other herbicides, to get rid of him. So this is still confusing to meet you The plants are all coming from clones, but you sell people seeds. So where did the seeds come from? I am I die, None on early or this I'm sorry fusing, while we're we're little literally talking apples and oranges, Frank, so we're talking about clones, we're talking about things like strawberries, oranges, right, apples, we're talking about soybeans or corn. So if someone buys host, though strawberries- yes, if you like you make this

August robbery. How does someone get a seed to plant for those mega strawberries? If it's all clones new cloned seeds, they know that they they just take the colonial plants, so strawberries make runners, so they have a plant. That then makes a little daughter plant that comes off it right and then you just get those daughter plants and plant those in your feel, so you don't sell them, seeds southern plant we seldom pluck, while not we not me bright, but our nurseries. So if University of Florida comes up with a new strawberry, that's fantastic they'll take that foundational plant do many years of testing the make sure it's good inconsistent many different place and then that plant will go to a nursery words propagated by by experts who make billions of plants and a couple years, and then they sell those plants back to our farmers, but when a person would go the store and they would buy seeds like, say heirloom tomato seeds. How would they make those seats? Those are seeds that come from heirloom tomatoes, so that comes out

You think of his single seed descent. In other words, you have a tomato that has some good qualities than its seeds also have the similar qualities. They ve been inbred, so that essentially, there's no genetic diversity within that fruit that every Jean, rather than having a copy from mom and a copy from dad that are different there, all same or at least very narrow, and so this way you can have seeds from that seem parental plant. That look very so that what you plant will come out to be very similar to the parent that it came from. But this is where a give can using to me, because you are telling me that if someone took like one of those tomatoes and grew, took the seeds from it and try to RO tomato plants, they would be similar to the initial tomato. The heirlooms probably would be Errors were because her so well, inbred, ok I'll show, but a regular-

tomato Monsanto grown regular tomato, a hybrid tomato that came from two very distinct parents that things gonna be a genetic mix of many different traits in that thing will give rise to many different Gee. So if you got a tomato from the grocery store, one, those pale funky tomatoes, the cut up in my crawls junior and you get new burger. The just looks like sad: if you took the seeds for now, you could possibly grow different kinds of tomato, yes, and so, but that, with things like thing, sock ticket, realistic or rubber- or it could be the next- the next best email you ve ever tasted- I mean it could be that the chances are now because they ve been breeding out all that stuff wait. You have tomato plants at home. Yes, I do I'll, send you some seeds for all that you will soon start none other

this is amazing. So a guy am I in my university named Harry Clee. He they did sensory tests on hundreds of people and they asked them what you like about a tomato. What in they tested all the heirlooms on them and they tested what heirlooms they liked and which ones they didn't. Then they took a part chemically what's in each one of those kinds of tomatoes, and they analyzed them by by maybe what the consumers were tasting in the volatile components in the acid balance in the sugars and they were able to come up with a recipe for the perfect tomato, and then they made hybrids that would fit that expectation and they came out with two new tomatoes called garden german garden treasure which are just going to be used in the whole market, but their tomatoes have exceptionally high flavour and it's one of these heirlooms bread against a University of Florida side, production tomato. So one of the more regular tomatoes

and the result is outstanding- it grows in Florida where nothing everything wants to die in Florida be, nor is it really harsh environment, but now these are tomatoes are fantastic and do really well out here and how they establish those seeds. Then they just do it of generations of very specific tomatoes, where there are confident that the seeds will yield the same type of tomato while the two parents are very well the very, very standard genetically and then those two parents get sent to a place like I to know where they did these, but was someplace like Costa Rica, something where you can generate huge amounts of hybrid three of people who will hand pollinate flowers with the one island from the other and then generate the seeds So that's how hybrid seeds are made so they're, making these seeds by hand germinating her hand, poem, and pollinating with, rather and in the result, is fantastic, because it's a combination of the best of the heirlooms versus the best of the production traits in this

What's exciting. For me, as a scientist is that we are, stand more about the consumer wants now and we also understand more about the chemistry of fruits and vegetables. So, even without GMO, We can understand the genes that cause people, the like tomatoes, like what are those components of a tomato or strawberry, that people just love and then identify those compounds and breed them back it just with traditional breeding What is the pollination process like because I watch this thing about in China? They had areas where they had decimated the bee population so badly that they had a hand pollinate a lot of their plants and by the sheer luck they found out that hand pollination is far more effective and if they paid people would have hourly wages is actually more cost effective to fucking care of the bees, which is horrible to find out what these people they was way. Better is apparently bees or just kind

random. You know they're, not they don't do the best job, but they don't know what the fuck they're doing. They don't know that they carrying pollen on them. You know they just there's kind of doing it. It's not like a very specific goal for them. But one of the specific gonna using like these artistic paint brushes and brushing pollen on it. The effectiveness is like way way better than just allow nature to run. Its course may have been the case in China and it depends on the crop to because a lot of things are wind, pollinated, so few email, He laid all of the plants that you plan to beat a female parent. If you cut out all this little stamens an anthem, male parts, you know you take up our rude yeah. I know be careful. When you look on line how to do this, I am sure look up in a new picture, Bruce Jenner, probably here he, he, Google emasculation it see you go to my you, pull out all the stops. It he's a hero. You pull out the area where you belong

all the statements and then now this plant can only be fertilize by what comes from you plant, the Jason rose and on the pollen donor and now bees and wind and everything else that take care of their. So these people hand pollinate these plants. Then grow tomatoes specifically from those plants and then sell those seeds or use of seeds to grow more me how many generations they do it for their confident. That thing. Seed that, if you get it it will grow that same specific tomato that you guys engineer so the seed that comes from the right NATO that results from the pollination those seeds are hybrids. They have the a combination. Of the mothers but the mothers traits and the Father Straits. That seed is the one that would go, You is the consumer that now you would grow tomato plant that would produce outstanding tomatoes while, after that, it's a crapshoot because genes in cells. When you're right, you're making your your gamete, your male and female reproductive components. You're going to homogenization that now you lose can role of what genes or in the next generation. So that's the point,

I think this a mine blow for people doesn't right here is for me, because I never really thought that tomato that you you'd garlic, begun. Heirloom tomato would necessarily grow heirloom tomatoes from its seeds, because this is not the way works mean? I would have always assumed that you would be able to get it that way. But you told me that you you what you guys it specifically done it. You had a hand pollinate in order to ensure that that would create those certain types of tomato. That's fucking, nuts, that's the way it goes now and you make hybrids. And if it does so much more cool stuff implant, genetics that we can do because of this kind of thing, it's very cool, but it it's disturbing again, dummies like me, because there, comes up well, people are in charge of the process of creating this very specific form of life. Man, that's really what tomato is it's a living thing is a very specific type of vegetable or with fruit right technically, it's technically afresh.

Fruit lie botanic that human beings are you guys are the mothers of these special tomatoes may assent he needs people. Sure asked me about seamless watermelons, I mean you're fucked, your dear lobbies. I worry what came first, a chicken and egg that doesn't make sense that there is a case where you're using chemicals to change the number of chromosomes in a cell. So now this plant has twice as many chromosomes. So now when you cross it against one that has the normal amount of chromosomes. The result so we'd have safe to do two times to Chrome homes in the next generation, you would cross it with something that has the normal set. The resulting ones have weird Intermediate set that can't be fertile gamma play the part, the dumb Hippy managers doesn't feel right with you just like fucking with nature and not knowing the results. I mean the world has legged a biological system and you're just tat.

Bring with it without totally understanding ratification? So what you gonna do is all sorts of cancer and autism that exist today in a lot of it is because of scientists, ignorance, you think they're so smart, you're, smarter than nature you going to play God with tomatoes. I just think that's fuck man, that's the word. That's my! My rule is pretty good I've met their guy over give. What do you say to that guy for them both the thing it breaks. My heart is that I like that guy, I love her too much too much. You know he peed he's he's not am I not up, and face about anything else. He's doing this thing, we listened to say: music, probably we were both in the worrying about the environment or on the same page with ninety percent. It's just that. He worries about this in this one aspect: the food production that Humans have always changed food and we ve just now learn how to do it with precision, and so this is what, where he's got? A kind of you know have a little. You know come Jesus moment here and say this is science working for him. I think again, it goes.

Too, that it is a very, very complex issue that doesn't a lot of black and white in as many me shades of gray and, like all things, there's pro in contrast to the application of it, especially really complicated things like anything, evolve biology this pros and cons of variables that we can control with with our consumption of food, with our it the level of pollution that we allow in the environment. Minister, we have like dedicated numbers or ordered, but disk proscribed numbers that you shouldn't go over. I if we go over this, will we fucked up that area? We gotta get out of there, I'm in his spots that human beings can go to right now because of chemical DOM, Sir, because of nuclear will reactor accident despots it with totally ruined this is just a pop up, but we also have fuckin power everywhere. You know. We also have a lecture me. Others is bad. Shit has happened, but look at all the good should set billion. People on the planet, there's never been numbers like. That is not the only reason why this number that his case

hundred thousand of our smart shit and those rules- some or maybe a million, maybe a millionaire, seven billion that have been responsible for putting together amazing society. It's not me, but the those people that have yeah there's been mistakes along the way, but I think without that innovation, in that thirst for improvement, that people seem to just we just have liking currently like a guy like you when you're talking about these the application of these technologies in the application of this science? In this work you get all jazz dopamine senior. You almost started crying when you were talking about these, but that you had met there were amazed created. You have a deep connection to this. This are you you're, fuckin, important shit, dude, You are more important than Jazzy said it I'll take their value. Do you know who is responsible for a million of those seven billion You know a name Norman Borlaug. I see there

Craig Alden Rice. Now normal Borlaug did more than that to grant Norman Borlaug was a wonderful, simple came for farm background became a scientist in studied ways that he could try to solve problems on the is the earth for the hungry, and especially an Indian Mexico, and his idea, was to take the kind of plants that may never be able to mix naturally and make some crosses dwarfing variety, so plants that were lower to the ground? I would have fewer problems and he made these crosses. That really would go to feed million people and am in scientists like me. No, I look at him and I'd he's like a who he is the ultimate hero to me, he's a guy who should be a household name here: stand on the shoulders of a giant, and he passed away in two thousand- and nine

and those of us who who heard about him read about him who who had a chance to seem speak. It changes us because it was it was his in is compassion to take care of the needy that drove him. It wasn't about making a dollar it wasn't about Monsanto. It was about being the guy that when he came to the village, everybody said: let's, let's take em up. Our best restaurant as here's a guy. We like he was a guy who insisted if you visited his campus to carry your bags to your car, despite the fact that he was a Nobel laureate that's the kind of role models that we have in science and is the kind of rural model that other people have to be aware of that for every Norman Borlaug. It's gonna take a few million evil scientists. We have to understand that, and he made that he made crosses

that were were amazingly diverse and that brought plans together that couldn't survive. That would never happen in the wild and fed people because of it see he's a good sign this year, the good scientists, the movie too. So when the evil scientists come, they try to take over the world. We need you be the ones to sound the alarm. I can every good movie like for tomorrow, whatever the day after tomorrow right, you need a good scientists to figure out the chips gone wrong, but in that's in their own surveillance. I mean it's not just me. There's thousands of me much more. Surveillance now than ever before, every informed, not just because we are aware of it, but because of the tools we have and it would be to me It would be a career maker to find something with a Monsanto product, a report it in the best journals that, when you I don't like a good Russell Crow movie that they come after you not at all, even where I'd say very ill and I would say, bringing trying it not totally I'm. While I am fearless I I love talking to the

and a GMO crowds. I mean I go into and I'm the one they call because they know I'm reasonable, but I go in the places and people will get In my face and yell at me, I'll have people come up and, in scream. At my face about how my company has given their kid cancer, I mean I give me I get some heavy shit happens, often, but The idea is to get into those rooms and get in those spaces. Just like we're doing here and have a conversation and introduce people, the technology in get them to De Monsanto eyes. This talk about ways that we can make it work to make up plant products. It would require fewer pesticides like them, he has how many people have come up to and yelled you did that you gave one of their loved ones chance to two years, one of those in Hawaii it was a woman beautiful men from my Brazil, I think originally- who had a choice Old who had dumb, who had cancer and she so here's what your company did to my child and company did she thank you.

Representing. I assume the big Amor one. The big companies and the reason I was there was because I was invited by the companies to come to the island to talk to people as a neutral party, because there Having a lot of conflict was invited by Monsanto. Well, no, I was invited by the Hawaii crop and Proven association, which is like a group of a whole bunch of companies, and they said there listen to us, they don't care what we think, what about an independent scientists and I came there. I made it my business to not hang around with the suggestions. Monsanto's dials, I didn't want to talk to the other scientists. I wanted to talk to the farmers and I want to talk to the people who were afraid and the people who had concerns, because I could help them understand and and- and that was what my goal was- to help them to talk to them and in any one, was there even people who are adamantly anti GM I think many of them would agree that I was there. I was often Minos, very peaceful and very quick to engage them that when I.

People in the audience farmer forms. Where was speaking, I see them shaking their heads and going nowhere no way the minute I was done in the past. As was over and the questions were answered. I chased them out in the parking lot and said. I need to talk to you, because this is where this conversation needs to be. It needs to be one on one over a pizza and a cup of coffee. It can't be they can't beyond the inner at where there's noise, from documentary sellers and in people with agendas, or what about face to face this woman's yelling at you that you're responsible for yes, her child being what do you say to someone like? I said, I'm really sorry for what happened in and I would love to help you solve this problem or not. Let it happen. Somebody else- and I go said if there is something here on the island that caused this. We need to understand it and we need to get to the bottom of it, but as a scientist, it's not GMO crops. I mean there's nothing that I can think of. That's plus

or no evidence that I know of that would point that way. And then I told her about the estate USDA, the person I gave her the name of the estate USDA persisted here's the person, you call and tell them where you live in and have them come talk to you about it. And analyzed patterns and, in you know, that's the kind of choices desist from another country, no laws in Brazil. This was enough. Why doesn't she from Brazil. I think self, so did living in Hawaii when this happened is so there's something that dumped into. Why was well well as United States, despite the others delegation a lot of people are getting confused. I thought she was. She flew from Brazil majority. She was I ate, I had account, station with Her- and I think I got that information from her at the time tat. She had a very strong ex, ok but under, there's a lot of very strong anti gmo sentiment on the island of quiet and in Hawaii actually throughout the state farming. How could not be sure if you look at what

have they a paradise sneer like what you gonna? Do you gonna fuck with Paradise? Do we're ok or your well did out here which are fuckin funky bananas, but here's the here's the deal is that our our arched, our farmers, reliant on this because Hawaii can grow three seasons of corn a year, so You can use it, but they use it for seed production. You generate the seed that's planted in Iowa on quite wow. That's amazing and so in you can do three c three seasons a year read as their amazing, whether rather two on the mainland or one, and so able to sell the farmer cheaper products or keep the costs under control of a product plus the environment's perfect, its dry, the cedars of good quality. So they do a lot of seed raising on. Why and um and in very strong anti sentiment, and I understand that it is a beautiful place It also employs a lots of people on the islands. I think one of

you you disgust, and we talked about earlier than I thought was really fascinating. Was this idea that planning crops isn't really natural because I was a pass through Alberta? past weekend and I was driving through these enormous agricultural areas and Thinking to myself like while this is really crazy. Like that, we do this. We just talk. Over these giant swaths of land and fill it with We can eat and then we run over it with. Giant machines collecting and then bundled up and sell it throughout the world like this, is it's a really bizarre practice? And it is, absolutely unnatural absolutely its end, and if you look at where the crops came from that we grow mean, corn doesn't long in the north, America, and it was well. We get came from Southern Mexico, wasn't in the United States and Canada anyway, if Look at a map and I'll show you one maybe later earthy look up. Crop domestication are centres of origin of a major food crops. You see that there are maps

Google images that show that you, you have sunflowers, maybe some progenitors, strawberry and blueberry, and maybe some kind of brass, because it might be like canola but for the most part, there's nothing that comes from here no took tomatoes are from South America, potatoes peanuts saw citrus from South EAST Asia. Apples are from Kazakhstan, Oliver Oliver Cabbage Kale Broccoli, cauliflower, all that's from the Middle EAST, the mediterranean areas. So now things from here: dude careless, totally natural fuck off. That's it example here this, but that talks about you know some of our major crops uncertainly it's yours, organ yams and potatoes came from South America, peanut, South America, while african rice? This is nuts. There's lots exactly Osh. Yes, squash came from Moscow, well it's also firmer Mexico along Beans got close to where I M maize was domesticated.

So there's some kind of squash that we're native to North America, but not many Lucas, Pires Pagel. What is that p, pepper, pebbles slash so people's like mud the any kind of vibe carpets like pumpkins, like the squashes quickness squashes, like we have to wear renewal for yams. Gives us some creepy little island, the mill and nowhere, but that this year they wear it. Let is that they love that stuff in Asia or something there that debts were yams from that date they take. But this is that this is all of the movement from those crops was human mediated. Strike that stuff around Keen MA am, and so all of our domestication that we ve done has been human facilitated in the genetic exchange. Accordingly, also, there's some yams that are also from South America seems it and boys at central that South America there at South America there. But what? But this is the beauty of this. If you look at strawberry, it's a great story because

strawberry, grows naturally on the forest floors of North America and also from Chile. But the two are two different species so as to different kinds of yams them. Its value, different species. Tat says it is: it's got to different names to different. This, I was always wears. May I too want to fuck names like scouts Wrapper name, it's out. Coolio decision aims are coolio what you're fuckin name. You know that, What's his name to change brothers, you name can go on to you. Go on CNN and debate. Nancy grace about part you dont, even We have a real name names eating name, but so does This is a cool see. If you can actually look at this delicate yeah, why do we have to which this? What what's your fuckin name? Dude? It's no its de. What is it has irony, malaria. I don't even know what the geniuses on that, but they don T try rifle I'd. Try for the terrific versus d, a lotta in there just there just re productively.

Isolated and what are essentially the same thing or the interchangeable they're, probably two species from the same genus other related, but there's re productively, isolated one. Have wrapper names, they cause they care cross with each other, unlike wrappers, say care crust each? Why don't they have their name? Then? Why did my Why do we have to dumbing down? Just call it Yemen yam wise? And why? indeed trifecta, one d alert. But it has its Yemen in him to read, but nobody thinks about this. Way. Yoda supermarket doesn't say well, because once you get in the supermarket are probably just one kind. This other thing is probably some freaky Zambia, doesnt work and production, but if it is ultimately very fast need to look at this map and think about what it must have been like, of course, be people that were traveling all over the world looking for plants and looking for spices without a big part of the whole trade, whether they would get on boats

travel to foreign lands. They were trying to find plants and spices and shit. We let me take the strawberry story, so cool that they they grow in force floors in north america- like you know, we eastern seaboard and people were dragging them back to the to the to Europe on colony ships and fifteen hundred there's lots of going back and you can find accounts in the literature and then in seventeen fourteen there was a spy who is going to South America, french spy, who is going to Chile to look at a spanish fortifications and he found a. A kind of strawberry that was being grown by indigenous peoples, and he brought this thing back to to Europe and he wasn't and unfortunately the Flowers were only mailers like you, you had a problem where these plants couldn't self fertilize, so these plants, that from South America, in the plants from North America made their way to the botanical garden in Versailles, where a teenager essentially started to identify crosses between these two

species there came in different places because of spies and colonists, and there the pollen got together to make our modern day strawberry. Woe it's got, it's got for complete sets occur, Muslims sorts of genetic mass, but something that we all love and enjoy in my lab, helping sequencing the genome a few years ago, it's this is how cool that that plant domesticate is there so many stories. Every one of these plants has a really cool articulates, are ridiculous story about the way it came to be on a plate. I just implants are absolutely fascinating. I order said I know guys who grow. Marijuana and these clones, and I had no idea what that even meant until I went this guide green room, I was like wait a minute. You take it. Okay to take a piece of this plant grow more plants, so he had got arrested, he's on the first guys, get arrested for

medical Weed and Tom Cormac and his has set up the way it did charged him for individual plants. They had set his club or individual plants, but if they were like in bulk, if the all on one plant. It would be legal order, less less illegal like to take that plant and clear it? Then it becomes a unique object in unto itself, because that could be used to draw grow more illicit drugs right. It's an independent entity is thought. It was seeds now that it's funny, because the so my main research here and talk about that stuff, but I work with idea- fine genes associated flavors and strawberries, and things like this using genomics tools, but I also do a lot with law. And so I do a lot with Ellie D in a lot with how you are able to change plant traits using light so make em tastes better or change the way they grow wow and I I getting emails. I was kind of one of the first folks in this bush and say that I was in the space early back in the early nineties and

getting emails from likeness stoner. Eighteen, AOL dot com for years, and people asking about how do you grow a plan that you would want to grow under what color like because there's so much of of that production, which has been brought into controlled environments I never was able to answer the questions very well because were forbidden. The work on such products it in our university anyway, and but but there's but the using light to control those aspects of plant growth and development, is something there really into that's fascinating. Is there any benefit to growing plants in sunlight, as opposed to artificial light? While this is this is actually a really big part of my programme? Is I do it's called plant whispering that wait? A minute you pray that music dvd player punk rock next to him and the girl aggressive? That's right at West point of light the power

this plan was part of what was break is basically where we use light, as so, if you think about a plant plants have twelve different light: sensors at least that listen to different parts of the spectrum, so plants can see red, blue, green, even the red light, that's off the end of the spectrum that we can't see and they can see uv, and so when we give different pulses or different treatment at different times of the day, we can change the way a plant grows, what metabolites it it accumulates. Maybe the flavors we can make cilantro tastes, absolutely horrible. If you'll, if you, if you like it, we can make it tastes so salon. Truly, it's a difficulty but we can change plant flavors. We can change their colours. We can change then either attributes and now we're we're trying to understand how we can give light treatments to plant materials like harvest strawberries, treat them with light before they go into the supply chain before they go to the store and through all the refrigeration,

and have them change their Jean expression patterns, so they come out the other end better and less longer in your refrigerator or last longer in your countertop, so idea This essentially changed the gene expression in fruits and vegetables, using the language of light to dictate how they decay My feeling is that we ve got enough. You say seven billion? Now we get ten billion three more billion coming. We have to use the same space right now. If you buy a tomato at the store or you ll see you pick a tomato off the plant in Florida. The odds of that tomato being eaten by a person are one in two. Fifty percent of our food is way, and one does it goes back. It either goes bad or or spoils, and in the developing world it either spoils or gets infestation and one place We can really solve the problem or addressed. The problem of the ten billion is in post harvest technology with the goalposts target.

In this isn't GMO stuff? This is the other thing I do. We were really dedicated to the idea of getting more for people by having a by having on food last longer in use. These kind of light treatments and other kinds of God made mild chemical treatments or washes, or whatever. This is one part of it, make what we have last longer. So what this involve of artificially growing these plants under artificial lights or what it involve like the growing the seeds from the plants grown from official line now, how would it be done? I think, if you then you'll see a lot of this online these days that there's a lot of companies that are starting in abandoned warehouses and places where they use Ellie delights to do it's called vertical gardening, where they ro plants and city centres, where you don't have the transportation costs in the carbon footprint, so you can bring plants to market cheaper and maybe even higher quality products. Sir. What I think about it- and this is where we think about this first GMO Gm-

We change one gene. We know exactly what it is. We understand it, em all or environmental modification of plants, which is what I like thing, a plant whispering were changed. Lots of genes in ways we don't necessarily understand, but we enjoy the outcomes and people don't really care. We book that's with freaks people out, because people know that lie light, is not an artificial lights, not necessarily good for human beings if you live in a room filled with florescent light, you'll get vitamin d deficiencies right, yes, is that similar to the light tat we use for plants, and, if so, is there a concern? there's a similar negative reaction, somehow another in those plants where they wouldn't be as healthy as they would be in natural, sunlight sure that you can have cases where plants censure pull metabolism is driven by light. The whole matter enough photosynthesis that if you have problems with your light sensing, that's why you have thirteen different light sensors, that control of Europe's growth and development is you're, paying attention to every aspect of that ambient environment and making very good

say predictions or conclusions based upon the information you get from the spectrum and that's where we been actually thinking and where we have applied the idea of manipulating the spectrum to change the way the plant grows. Ultimately, anything it isn't beneficial were not interested and we want to grow better food, that's more nutritious and last longer, so that were able to grow things more sustained are these lights, normal lights, or these lights, like some very specific growing type lights in they give off a varied de specific spectrum. It's not like normal, Ellie D or florescent lights, other specific donations of Ellie deals that are computationally controlled, so it's cool for all that a certain. But what would you say amperage like what would you say as far as wattage? Well there? What is the light? Was that media? You can't got it it's all these they're all different, and in the light business we call it fluency rate number photons that are produced per cubic per square metre, the ideas that some of the photons we produce that give

whence information you can't see, so you can't really call it the intensity. Stuff, that's in uv and off the end of the red part of the spectrum. It has information for plants, that's really potent but its side, not information that you can see, but the plant makes, if you put a plant under far red light, the stuff off the end of the red part of the rainbow The plant goes, berserk, it get, starts growing, really lanky and long at accumulate, specific pigments it oh emit did, allows to manipulate the plant, so eyes and body of the plant and doesn't have any concert, once on the actual product at the plant produces that's consumed by humans, whether it's a tomato or avocado or whatever. Is there anything about this light that changes the actual food? Oh sure, if we what we use it for and we ve done most of our experiments on sprouts, like Caille sprouts, we can make it sprouts change and level of glucose and awaits, which are the anti cancer compounds. We can increase that stuff just by using Light

we can channel probably give each answer when thou be ironic. Well I can change the like the attractive colors you to make things are purple or green. I can make others a kind of. Let us I can grow under a different light treatments that gives you essentially, eight different kinds of lettuce leaves the tastes. Different looked different tastes different Why, then, is discernible to the naked eye like you? Would I be able to walk in there and know which one is given of which thing or is? It is not just a recipe of light that gives

given our please don't sound like if you had four different rooms, you are grown for different kinds of. Let us would I be able to walk in his rooms and discerned there's any difference in the light of each individual sure you would like crazy. It's it there's a lot of stuff. You can even find online with like. If you look like a lady implant growth, you see all kinds of different ways that people do this. The problem is that most places stick plants under a purple light or under a pink light, and they get some effect. What we don't want to just girl plant, we want to tell us how to grow and I think the future of growing plants and control them. Ireland will be deeply rooted in this ability to control how they grow. The key word is control man and urge China do try to make lead as the fuck's of my head. I know what you're doing dude with your light thief, I just seems like that's what the thing the people be worried. The most is that there would be some sort of nutritional deficiency in Southern has grown with article a light that growing something in the sunlight is somehow another better for you. There any sense at all hours, I just told Alonzo it couldn't. It could be true,

steady, eroding, may not be what what what we're looking for is again we're not looking for like Thea the other of the deleterious result. But we're trying to do is what is the combination of variables that we can control to make something? That's better for people, that's that but I'm dedicated to that's where I want to go. So it seems to me that there is just a giant positive aspect of this, about keeping food a longer feeding more people giving people nutrition in areas where its unavailable seems to me. That is a massive massive positive benefit of what can we do to mitigate or prevent any negative aspects of it? you know that the negative aspects of it being that somehow or another it could harm people somehow or another. The corporations behind it would act in the greedy way that would be detrimental to the area where the crops are grown or whatever. What can be done.

Yeah. I think it in. I guess I'm kind of treating our own horn here by saying we need to support public science. You know we have got this group of people like in the land, university system. This was a brilliant idea that came out of the moral act back in the eighteen sixties, where they established a firstly, in every state that job was was to take care of the public need. Will you train the students? You helped the farmers. Do the research that put you at the cutting edge to help the farmers and train the students, and that's a model that still here today, universes California. Davis is the best in the world at this and in their amazing, at the things that happen there. The problem is that as a nation, we ve been less excited to fund science right now. If I read a proposal to U s dna or National Science Foundation, the odds of it getting funded are between five and ten percent, and if you think that they have these competitions once a year, you know you may go ten years, but without getting a researcher wore a lotta labs are closing up or not training

Students like we used to and it's because of their hasn't, been this public demand to fund science, and I think a lot of that comes from they go well. People are scientists. There are just in the pocket Monsanto anyway. Why do we care when that's totally, not true the best defence against an evil empire? Is your public scientist in word and were struggling for tools? Are now. How does one get hired like if one is going to college and your graduating you getting your masters and whenever you're getting it in and you get recruited by a company like Monsanto's, that happened, or do you go to them and looked to get a job like? How does a scientist become a good sign? like yourself, one evil scientists like, even though the most evil. We think the guy agreed atomic bomb, but often armour, was an evil at all and then actually really disturbed

by the whole event, the thing that he had created. She was a part of this scientific process that ultimately seem necessary, the time being the first person to come up with this bomb. So how does one get high, but that's very striking? But how does one get hired like at college and how many scientists does likes a company like Monsanto import? Monsanto? Is, I think, twenty four thousand employees, but to companies I don't know I don't know. Probably good chug capabilities takes out the garbage vote. But, to be honest, I do not, I know largely. I do know lots of people who work there in lots of our former students from our programme have gone there because their hiring in a universe, These aren't they r and D, but just to give you an idea, you go through at least four years of undergraduate. You require sometimes a masters degree, sometimes a phd that takes you forty seven years, then you're Talkin about Post Doc time where you're looking at between. One in six years. So your thirty five there

six thirty seven years old before you ever even get a job, and that is insane and that's. If you'd in academia where I work It's so rare to get a job. It's really tough get an academic positions but art the companies are happy to take these people, especially people with good backgrounds and plant breeding. Guess Monsanto. At the end of the day there not a GMO company there, not a chemical company anymore there, a plant genetic improvement company and working on breeding plants, so that, then you can add that gene to the elite background there's only so much you can do with GMO tranche Jeanne the rest that has to be done by breeding and a lot supplant breeders. People come to my lab the to plant breeders to my lab, one of em got snapped up by one company, another one got snapped up by another. I'm right out of the Phd each one of them into a six figure, plus salary plus all kinds of benefits. Do you ever think about going over to the dark side? I've been recruited many times and

horses with you, but it is not my mission. You know I I I like I'd like to stay with my star wars, or I could I get my my Yoda said state University. You must

I was. My whole thing is, I think I like being in the public sector, because I don't like to have secrets. I don't like to have proprietary information that I can't share. My whole thing is, and I in I've been this wave my entire career when I got the first little bit a strawberry sequence, information with the eight hundred dollar grant that I got from the floor. Strawberry association. We got the first little bit a strawberry information. We gave it away because the idea was to spark more research and more discovery. We could a sat on it and use it just for our lab, but you guys like the Eland mosques of strawberries, it we would that's the idea, you know you you make it, you distribute you work faster, open access, open source as fast as you can and em so, but this is the main thing with the companies. For me it's about it's about that

role and I like to work synergistic with the companies idle in. I have good relationships with Monsanto employs down employees, you name any company because we have the same clients. You know my job is to make sure farmers not to use Monsanto products Monsanto seats, so I need to know what the company's up too well the Ets is. It seems so crazy that it so easy to get hired by a giant corporation and difficult to get hired by public universities seems, but it's totally logical, obviously, who's gonna be way more p. Well that are pursuing a degree in science, and there are openings. So is that difficult to encourage young people to get in the science? Because of that when they look at job prospects as at a real issue, think it is really. One of the funny ironies here is that, back in nineteen, ninety nine Monsanto actually gave my University, some money towards a position. So they said you guys are short on faculty here. Let's start one there and they hired a guy who's. Now

done anything from Monsanto ever since has done some beautiful science for the public good and We're always criticised about that people say to me: well, you ve got that position in your department. That must mean everything you say has to go to its like totally, not that I am grateful that companies do anything for us if, if anything in other give, if anybody wanted to build a new building on our campus. Wouldn't say no, but that doesn't mean they're gonna get any favours. So when you ok, if you are involved in any sort of project war or any sort of? they scientific analysis of something are you were quite hired to release the results to your superiors before you go public with them. Orders are no obligation whatsoever. He could just tell anybody at any time, but what you ve done covered yet no obligation, I little I research what I research and from what I can raise money for from USDA and assess age where, where I can get money from public sources, even strawberries,

industry. I can do some strawberry industry sources that give me some funds, but that no one goes, there's no filter and dumb. Sometimes it's good to have people. Read just make sure you don't say something dumb, but there's nobody, whoever says: no, you can't publish this and if they did and publish it anyway, because this is about science in the truth, it's not about making anybody happy. Well, that's the big conspiracy is always the big conspiracy, in anything it's in the public eye when people are allowed to scrutinise something from the outside and guess what the process is I didn't know, that's what I had asked you you, You could have easily just said to me. I mean, as far as I knew you could have easily said. Well, everything that I do has to go through a board and they have to develop. And whether I don't know I have no idea and most people in that same place. Yes, I've been accused of like do with different jobs that have had different, shows work for the USA of someone telling me what I can't I can't say- and that's just not the case, but more

I do a super simple are just talking about fights like. If someone told me not to talk about something you would be of like really not much signal. Against ok, it's just about martial arts, of that. What you're talking about is these discoveries that could potentially impact untold. Thousands of people in a very beneficial or in a very negative way. So ever everybody's got that worry. There are those people, but to get beyond the outside that I totally get that because, where an especially when we're in a country where we're all pretty comfortable- and we all have plenty of food we used in- I have a few bucks- an hour wall to do stuff that we reduce, tend the focus on the worry. And what, if exhibits, everything's fine, we're afraid of something upsetting the apple cart. But I can tell you as a scientist that if I to find something like just through some process through some experiments, something wrong with the Monsanto product or a doll product or whatever and elected. Just pick on the bigger

I find something wrong with the product in agriculture that would shift the paradigm that would change it from something safe in used everywhere to something that we better have some alarming care with. That would be something that it when I published that it would be on the best journal, you'd be in science for nature and then would be replicated by other labs right away as soon as it was published. I would get huge notoriety. I'd get grants forever. I wouldn't be in that five percent anymore I'd be getting leading grants because I was the guy who broke the rules. I was the one who broke the paradigm and probably get a Nobel Prize out of it. So you don't you don't think that there would be any negative repercussions before was clearly established that you are correct behavior. What like we're talking about before, if its involving corporation

That's profiting in the billion dollar range can making an insane amounts of money, and you have some information that would put a monkey ranch into the gears of this incredible money. Making venture you don't think they'd be negative repercussions. I don T exactly what would happen in and then I'm sure this is what would happen. The first people I would let now would be the company that makes it gets. Product off the market, here's what I got and then you breaks, would fill in your car arson, neckerchief universe. Well, let's see that's the kind of stuff that a yearly movies it once again going back, no doctor evil, but but it's I think, that a company who would be who, with someone were to reveal a mistake they would be. The first ones would want to Know- and I, because they would have disproven now by history and in each in when you go back, and you talk about sure things like have already GM right about this whole fuckin ignition

We talked about it earlier today. They knew and they get their fucking mouth shut its a good point in all its in it. It ties in with my kind, and I e by deal ISM, sometimes are already everybody, Emily Tine Punk Rock happy. I know, but at the same time I support the other side of the coin. Is that if I word, if I was, guy, who discovered the ignition issue, I were in. I was an investigative reporter and I was able to put together seven or eight cases of this and would tie it to the ignition and did a study that analyzed the mechanism of failure, and I went to G or GM and said this is the problems doesn't work and they refuse to respond. I'd put this in the newspapers that I would look at it. I put a blog that everybody would see. I'd come here and talk to you about it and I would blow the lid offer that now get a Pulitzer prize. You write an awesome book in the bank, would get publishing and make casually and hopefully in the sun, but this is how it should work is that we gotta have, but those are scientific processes that go through

a series of steps to develop evidence, that's analyze, to come to a conclusion, and then we can shape policy based on it, and that's where I get excited about about what we can do it science, without maybe there's reasons of people, are worried, though, about information leaking out. I could harm companies muse reasons why people shield their identity when their leaking certain information costs thicket caught and then those does companies get really pissed off and they even if it's just lawsuits mean any company like Monsanto could cripple any normal person just with lawsuits, you'd, never be able to keep up their just smash it with lawsuits when you are in charge of this kind of information. Are so we're not talking about the conspiratorial stuff. For talking about like the nutritional things like the bananas at your passion about the vitamin aunt em,

What is that feeling like when you you you're, being ignored or you're being either it's a conspiracy by these companies that they don't want or these people that they don't want to open up the door for genetically modified foods or its ignorance to the science involved? With these people and their their massive amounts, blindness, what does it feel like to be the guy who knows possessing that's gonna, be a crazy place to be to be the scientist who actually understand and the mechanisms involved in the creation of these very organic products that were manipulated by human beings and how they could benefit human beings. Nobody understands you,

there are thinking you fuckin, crazy or you're, a shell oil. What is I feel, it's horrible ever. This is why I appreciate you so much and letting me do this today. In my people I care Santa Maria who has been so helpful and talking about the GMO issue. It is an operative any time we can talk about this and get people to understand where I come from that there's trust here, Joe every night. I answer thirty minutes to an hour of emails about from the concern public who asked questions to me about this. I was watching your twitter today, you're feed between yesterday when I announce you're gonna, be on today, dude you been Stop me, your tireless with this stuff. You have a real incredible passion for this. I've done read its where I would sail come on with and ask me anything for two hours and I'll stay on four six monthly allowance or a thousand questions every one of em hand done what I mean, I'm not cutting and pasting in I am addressing their persons concerned, because this is how

we're gonna change it. It comes from talking to people who have concerns and and people who are worried and help them understand the science, because if they get this then less likely to worry about the real problems firstly, we were that the artificial problems start focusing on the real problems and how important is it to fund more public science and to try in some way to make more people attracted to what your doing as opposed to going overseas universities, because if people really are concerned, like probably that's the best way to deal with the best way to deal with science is the fun science. Yes hundred percent It's the fun science and make sure that public scientists have the tools they need to maintain the donkey corrupted. The idea of being corrupted seem so tempting well, but in a bit in IRAN we do have to be careful because cause companies can fund individual laboratories or programmes

universities and end. It doesn't necessarily mean corruption. Of course they can be very beneficial and then they can help us a lot and- and I would love to have Monsanto hand me a cheque for five million bucks and say have added, do what you want. I bet it's on way right I've been awaiting an awfully long time. Your hopes of people have been saying it for for twenty years. Now that I should be getting everyone ready, they're ready the right now check right now, just like the pen, I got a movie, the other really cool thing that we can do as it is. I think a kids fired up about science and we kids. I find that this he of genetic engineering isn't a big deal to them that they kind of get it and they cause it's cool, No, like molecular legos, they kind of get the idea that you can take something. One thing and move to another. You browse trades unions. Kids, have this kind of all modular understanding of the world anyway, that their comfortable with bits and pieces coming together in different ways to make different products, and when we talk I spend about maybe too

three mornings a month with third, the fifth greater seven graters, mostly thirty. Fifth, that's there's a lot of fun, their greater so the best, and we talk about how to solve the Cyprus problem, and I tell her graters yeah how many homes a magic? Well, you know what they say. Even crazier stuff is accurate. Start us ample I'll, give you an example. I show them well it we I teach this is. I show them what the problem is, that there is an insect that moves, a bacterium to a tree. They get sick and dies from bad nutrition and So what are the single show them all that and say: ok! Stop! Now you guys are the scientists, give me a solution and the hands go up and one of them will say: give better nutrition and then another one I'll say. Maybe you dive across it with a tree that doesn't get sick and they get that in other and they ve they ve got sex. Figured out well by then then you talk about then one of more say funny. One was

build them in a dome under the sea, where the bug can't get to a mean up and in the challenge Hermine. Does it not that one? awesome ally. I told the teacher to keep an eye on drug tests decade that the cool part about. That, though, is that he's right? If you could isolated things from the insect in some, I challenge as a teacher in that scenario, when I'm interrogating their interest in science. Is this How never tell one of another crazy right that I have to take whatever in. They give me and somehow loop it back to well, here's how you're right and how it just might work I see, you're an hundred percent attempting encouragement of curiosity. I am getting kids to creatively solve a problem and a dome under the ocean adult under the ocean, and you know what in and when you do that with them. We need to do that. Then I go forward into the slides by how we are solving the problem. I can say in Dave

raise your hand, said: you'd, better nutrition, look at how they're using nutrients to make it better. Some one else said to control the insect years. Five ways are controlling the insect. It shows these kids. They validate that their suspicions about science and that their creative juices that solves the problem were correct. So how do you address the kid but the dome onto the ocean? Would you consider so many fuck and problematic italian school, but there's all photosynthesis issue, this oxygen you'd run on air. Others, Crimson Paynton things in the world needs artists in that kind of, can steer that direct somebody. I've got of unfairness like Stephen King, like the dome, but he wrote I had made a whole fucking ocean garden network. It there's ways this time but I think the whole idea is that their so used to their teacher saying wrong wrong that here's hey where I set up a situation around a real problem. That's in their state may be in their yard that allow them to actually exercise their science muscles as little kids and I think that's a big way. We can this year, there is a really

Horton point. When it comes to human beings, little children is figuring out away to not make their curiosity and negative now, don't scold them for having a ridiculous imagination. You know Express the issue with it or how it could be ripe and why it's probably wrong now, but you gotta, figure out a way to reward them for taken that chance to come up with this dome of the Ocean, Cosette who knows might have three of those suck, but one of us everybody goes hey, wait a minute. That's the paradigm shift goddammit that's what we want and there's a great video, a great TED talk by someone named Alison, Gob, Nick and Allison forget where she's at maybe Berkeley. She is a scientist who studies the way, kids think and she shall that children, when their born into the next few months, are actually the smartest they ve ever gonna, be in terms of their ability to test hypotheses. In synthesize information, and she shows the way kids do this, and so

on that. Maybe I want to be like an indictment of the way we train people, but it is a certain amount of curiosity and exploration, that we tend to break out a kids and I think- as an educator as someone who is really committed to education, that getting two kids is the most important way to get signs to improve, get them so excited about the cool things we can do, and I it breaks my heart, I have a kid show up at the march against Monsanto, whose holding assign saying your site. Causes autism doesn't inheres acutest, now: go through life thinking, sciences, evil done by evil people with evil intentions. When I, when really were, were trying to get that kid may hold the solution to the next big citrus crisis. Yeah. It's it's unbelievably ironic that so many anti science websites are online. I mean just the I'd: how the fuck do you think that computer got built? exactly now all natural ally on those an apple

not an all national computer utopian as recipe through its eye. I think it's really important that people recognizes. France has brought us virtually every single thing that you enjoy today side of the natural world outside of cocoanuts fallen a new Edam there's so much that we have light on science about the way we stay warm. The way we keep things cool the way we communicate with each other, and this fear that people have about foods being modified. I think, is it's a big one and it's one of the biggest one. In this country, and so to have a guy like you come on an express why we should be concerned and why we shouldn't be concerned, and why? What with the positive aspects or our, I think it's really really important man. I think a lot of evil need here I have to say, and the need to be able to listen to it from an objective standpoint and understand that this is a very complex issue is very complex and it's very important. I appreciate that we'd have time to talk about

but because it is something that I really encourage. People there's places where you can get great resources, there's a blog called Bio Fortified, DOT, Org, which is written by scientists who are independent scientists, and it really is just an information, huh about this particular topic and some of the articles are articles are clever they're, all written, very softly there. Nothing is, you know, I'd damn anti GMO, it's alright about the science and its independence not funded by any of the companies. Have you ever thought about tuna podcast you'd be excellent out. I would love to do it. There's some funny things about that. I cannot give an ant ipod

ass clause near universal contract or somethin. Now I have a podcast I do, but I dont do it is me? Oh you, son of a bitch. I do it as I do it as a character. Has now dare you and you can't talk about it? I can't talk about August on. Did you mention it for that? I'm gonna find it than a finding a guess. The problem is that lies things. I know what that once a cat out of the bag, the Funny Party cells alibis at well HANS to bed, the reason I want to keep it secret, though it may be dark. Here's my appeal to don't go! Look for ok, but still secret. What's it about? Science your character on a science podcast, I'm a moderator, Houlihan they'll, know there s a figure it out and then go on anyway. I'm gonna keep ago indictment to Managua Colbert did it for how many years yeah you know that so and then very much along that line, that's very much along the other. It's it's! It's a lot of fun How can you play a dummy? Are smart guy, a dumb, smart guy? Oh you play a guy who doesn't understand the sites you have to correct people or

correct use. I would have something like that scene play their antagonists, and so come along and then they have d be use you as a tool to get to the root of the problem. The ignorance of people I was essentially as some stuff- that's completely out of the house in its reticence, really fun, because it's a great way to get the science out there and allows me to have some fun as a character as a character that I couldn't have as a establish professor and chairman of a my department, totally honest that also is now linked to a great song online. What you need is wrapper name, you know how yams have their own separate named the Yemen and they have the other thing you need a wrapper name. Did I do have one? What is it right now, I'm not gonna say it hope is like Keyser. So saying things are one and its one better. You can. Even you can even look it up on line here programme. That's it! I can't talk about not don't talk, ok

just didn't inviolate. You try. I think it's good, because the thing is that I do want to talk to people who don't agree with technology. But why are you do this? Why don't you have a podcast where people, instead of have you seen you. I've seen rather spend so much time typing, I'm sure you can type or you can talk rather quicker than you can type all that shit out. So why don't you just take those questions and have people sent up to every week in there redundant just that way you can choose. You know what you ve already dresser and you could say: hey we covered that in podcast, two or three. You would have a kick ass, podcast man happy to support it to a lotta. We weren't we talk about their talk about, I always so easy to do. The one I wanted to do was the crop domestication podcast, where I talked about final, Someone's doing, I wanted to know that when we talk about this strawberries and again this house that I wanted to talk about each one of their stories and how they came to be an interview, the experts and so great idea

and so are all these things are kickin around. The problem is, as I have three full time jobs I mean I'm an administrator for a department of fifty nine. Guilty. I may full time research, scientists and, on a full time, signs communicator ends I literally do work six, a m the midnight seven days a week tune and not an exception. Exercise. Timing on the stuff I do there, I am, I I'm I'm in this. What are you hiding from when he running from running from something? Now I don't know I guess you think a lot of work. I guess I guess what I'm running from is I'm running from I'm waiting for one of these things to wear out where I can just cut it back to two That's an amazing work. I think that you have- and I can understand why you wouldn't have enough time, but if you have enough time to do all these tweets on Saint, even if you just a half an hour once a week, if you just for half an hour once a week, just a collection of. Maybe I can get an intern to collect some of the best questions. I'm sure some would be happy to do that. You press,

Warner Iphone, that's all you need to do. I mean that link the quality of their recording you get for regular Iphone is pretty much worth it. You can hold it up your mouth just go over the piece of people get here. You turn the paper of it. When we got here this one is important and disk round. Into the microphone and I'm tellin you you'd be popular earlier and you'd be quit you're the jobs that are there great. Actually, I have used the Iphone in my characters used, and I got a nice mixer at home. I point punch it through the mixer I'll see you know how to do. This is also a major I mean to be an abandoned right as all think as this is so, but I imagine there's a couple things I wouldn't I love doing this kind of media stuff. It would be a really easy thing for me to do it's just a question of where to wedged into a full schedule you, They got a try. You really, I think, you'd be excellent. High really today. I really really appreciate talking you. Do you ever feel like moving out of Florida? It's too stupid it

the brought beyond this now I had. Actually, I really love Florida. I really area hidden in a wider cause, but it's my job that does it. I never planned on being there my Orleans. Well, yes, nice living gains for early. Yet my dad went to the university for the Amis stepped out, went there for architecture or sun I totally admired the faculty there and when I had the opportunity to apply there, I applied thinking there's no way I'll ever get the call, and I got the interview and then interviewed- and I thought, there's no way I'll ever get the job, and then they called me for the job. I should and I have always felt like the the guy on the all start team who just gets put on the team because he's the his didn't have anybody else. I do not so surrounded by good people. I always feel very dwarfed there, but twelve years There are ten years later they put me in charge of it, so I must be when some right, but will you obviously have a real passion for it and, like you said your in Florida, you gotta be smart,

therefore, by you and Billy Corbett should get together with dominate floored areas. Director of code in Kabul. I don't know him he's awesome. I smashing pump. No, no! No! No! That's the thing in floor Every time. The new story breaks about the guy relations with a sandwich or Vienna Florida I got her. Please don't be here, please don't it's there ever seen the floor. Demand twitter account now one of the greatest fucking things worlds ever known. Ok, I want, in their spare time, go to Florida, man, twitter, feed and just read like kid: fuckin, crazy how many more funds are in Florida. That's all true. I debian I you know I I I have a great relationship with the growers in our state and the people who are doing the farming and people in those industries as a lot of grape. You gotta run or no night, but there's a lot more on absolutely Matamoras, California, that that's why it would be, to pull me away as because you develop relationships with these people who

who are seriously struggling, and you look at the citrus industry, strawberry industry, with the competition they're getting is unprecedented and these folks down the highway, who are farming to feed us good food doing everything they can to stay afloat, and I am so glad to be able to work with them Kevin fault. But thank you very much and do a goddamn podcast we serve Thank LEO's people would love it. I think you a lot of people. By answering our questions like you did today, you are fantastic appreciate the healthy man like that. I very much hope that you can follow on Twitter, its Kevin folder, F, o t on Twitter. You website is k, folder blood, spot, its blog called illumination, beautiful, zero linked to that from your twitter feed to somewhere that ok, I'll write lays gentleman. That's a good bye, bye, bye because Thank you, everybody for Tunisia, Parker Thanks to our sponsors, thanks Square space out com go to school

space dot com using offer code Joe to get ten percent off your first purchase. Thank you square space for your support of the jargon, there's thanks so to Nature box, nature, mother, fuckin, box, dot com, but no mother, Fucker, just Nature box, dot, com, Ford, Slash, Rogan get a free trial of their favourite snacks. That's nature box, dot, com, Ford, Slash Rogan for food or eat box, other falcon Yummy, Delicious Knox and thanks also to honour dotcom, good, o n n. I t use the cold war broken and you will save ten percent off any and all supplements are my friends: that's for today into next time. Much love and they kissed. yeah