« The Joe Rogan Experience

#951 - Dan Doty

2017-04-26 | 🔗
Dan Doty is a writer, director, producer, educator, and founder of Evryman.co and the Everyman Podcast available on iTunes. https://www.evryman.co/
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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anyway me undies dot com forts lash rogan go there and you get twenty percent off your first pair me on these dot com ford slash rogan we did it our folks my guest today is a really good friend of mine dan dodi dan i met him in two thousand twelve when i did the show mediator with steve rinella we went this sum hunt together in camp together and discuss to know him he's a very cool smart very sincere guy and always enjoy talk it too has been on the pockets couple times before biomass off once when we were driving back this past summer from a trip in nevada together and once before when he was the producer of my friend remy warren show apex predator so give it up for my pal day and
the job will gain experience stern dodi yes will lie with a brother or you want to see a good see two men so for people don't know i'm a damned way back in two thousand twelve does that seems like a long time ago now does it seems like at least half my life which is not even why is the true anywise it like five years it was five years ago half years ago without backward and it was october of two thousand and twelve i thought there's only two months left in the world except that the mai encounter was correct and it was all my guess number twenty first two thousand twelve going to end the world hookah yes you fucked often with the montana to want it all right yeah we take we took
canoe down the missouri river that was fuckin awesome has now while swarm david trips ever cold really cold like not fun call those that gets up but once you got move and it was fine you know and i learned about marino war as the important there was an important lesson like the first light marino wool that people don't know if you're ever in a cold area it sounds or any other base layer of marino work that she gets wet stay warm universe sweat and that you stay warm and it doesn't work half as much as is the synthetic version yeah at all it's weird exe people really like synthetics in some weird way i haven't used them or did you know you have i have they smell terrible she actually dont care i like em both but i just you know working with those guys for so long and and first light i got used to it i like it but i use synthetics for ten years before that and i mean i didn't smell good buddy
a lot of mountaineering people like some synthetics because they dry quicker but as i feel that one of the best benefits of the war is that which is where it still retains your warmth and i don't mind being a little moist with synthetic keep you warm too and there were just that slightly different value i cotonou not really i can't go out all night but a synthetic like catalina patagonia uses or other things that they also will they want they won't kill you but yeah that them realise and other better qualities gad system with a stink things huge i thought small terrible those a fund trip man that was actually the first episode of that show that i know fully kind of shot and directed myself so that those kind of a big stage from is fine i just basically how now account darrell week would you have when you have cowan when cowan has like a captive audiences the funny man alive i will never
i won't share them ass good a few scenes from the campfire do you remember the ravine calmer remember i remember him taking a shit literally ten feet from our camp fire is ass dick enough and we flag at it i took pictures of that shit that we put a luminous flag on it and stuck it in there i ve never touched another man's shit other than it is a try to set up hunt for myself last year in the brakes and adjust ended up didn't happening but the one my favorite place it's so lonely out there but so amazing that area is so that such a perfect place to introduce coun and i too that the world of hunting the act as it so wild with multi faceted to give lotta history there you have the job no it's it's one of those areas where it's a complete wilderness experience because you're on the water radiating we're gonna crossing roads like we got dropped off at the end of the road and floated to basically the next rode down the river which had a big deal
we floated forty miles down over the course of what was it six days is what i want these bucks yeah that there does the market there buddy hey fella that's a different time that was in wisconsin there was one word consonant with religious just put up but when we did do that man it was that was where lewis and clark had made some stuff ups expedition and that's where without one of the cruellest things about doing with the network as you know so much about the history of the united states and that these settling of united states and also the net purse indian stories do tell us shit years yeah that's what i heard the store about the what the he'll store the original story about the leonardo caprio movie the revenant like what really happened oh what a pleasure it is to a movie ok yeah he told me that store the actual story about the guy that got left behind and crawled many many miles and with the guys do not remember the actual guy's name
but there's so much they made up in the movies is kind of brutal yeah there's a freaky movie it was actually the grizzly bear tat yeah a real free giving real grizzly bear attack so i bet the real grisly scottish swatted that dude once and then just the heath fell down and left him alone why do you think the cause that thing when it took pieces those a giant bear to i just fuck bears man they scared the shit out of me i wondered we the average length of time of a bear attack like allies at last two seconds thirty seconds well that movie grisly man apparently the audio of him getting killed by the areas like seven minutes law i listen to that was terrible no it's not real the one you listen to online not real oh no sheds fake the actual audio was never really my life is a lie so many send it to me too but then i looked into it in
warner herzog and the woman who owns the actual audio they got rid of it they they destroyed it they never listened to it and werner herzog actually told her to destroy it in the documentary film so the white when you hear it online is vague and then once you know it's fake in you listen to eager shits fake yuki chan here when i i baking i'm sure yeah little really want let a grisly man audio we here nigger yeah this is real gets on my top five movies of all time too great a credible too the funniest movies ever far unintentional commenting on my god is folly whether was this sheriff the sheriff goes why thought he was your tongue so here like screens and shed air fox audio bear it
wasn't going here the echo here that's that was done in all these these voices these was meant to be in the woods these that audio was unquestionably done in a room somewhere sierra resided at then toss vague horse selina those magua hours they got us to think that benefited from creating probably yeah like some money yeah somebody probably put up some you too bad and made some cash its intent play possible or they just did it for fun it's our people we haven't got time as the guy's reality it sounds like you can here in here enthusiasm are shit i believe this is so ridiculous but its supposedly lasted seven minutes because american was writing them wait so what's that where's that step does not from
the real level of actual audio said because the bear not trying to kill him just eating up because bears apparently i've seen bears kill moose in videos and they just start eating them they don't count rainforest doesn't all of dazzling wolves do they just eat right away they started back ended started study leaving you they dont didn't bother them have the decency to at least a mountain line kills you and i'll cats kill ya airs and wolves they just eat you i guess it you don't need to they don't need incapacitate admire well it's also a thing with omnivores omnivores i think don't have that instinct to instantly kill just stay here but that doesn't make sense though my theory socks because a wolves because wolves the rooms are gone rings at yeah so maybe it sir interesting i mean that they do that because they have to write like that's how they
they take they take on a running animal yet of kills they snap at the legs right yeah and then they just it's the easiest soft as part of here to start on the bag in law i'm just a two part cassidy about wolves in idaho where they were talking when you go deep into the back country where people can't get to or words are very difficult really rocky terrain the world just running ramp about their lives of so many wolves there ever seen when the wild now put that enable us to act i did see one in alberta i think but it was at twilight and it was dog sized and ran across the road and it was a little too big to be a church in my mind but i thought a war for like two seconds and was a squirrel so take that with a grain of thought i seen a couple of the most memorable we were we were in a valley in alaska it was dusk and that you noticed ranges on each side and the money
the honest somebody yelled in somebody spotted one across the river and we when looked at it and it was his men my memories values either pure i think was pure white and it just i swear to god has shown i did just like emanated light it was the most like regal beautiful just like perfect perfect any just sort of trot along the river disappeared back and woods and their amazing not until i was thinking about this morning here i was looking for my mind tracks but another sign that the tread says gives you warning about landmines out here for sure yeah i never really i don't know the only thing that ever gives me pause and woods is is a grisly because steve i would a charge that wants and ever since that happened my bear radar is more intense it's such a freaky animal
when you see what a grisly really is essentially a thousand pound giant wild dogs have you seen those in the world or sofa grisly yet no never seen a grisly not in the wild i've seen them in own live in a sanctuary and i've seen a lot of oh no i did see a grisly i saw small a grisly in alberta last year but it wasn't there it was like maybe six and a half seventy but we understand where you pretty clause was very close it was like thirty or forty yards from us yeah but it took off pretty quick but it wasn't a grisly like they had some trail can photos of like fuckin tat curse your goddamn feed abbe buses this is like a juvenile so as proper legacy public six and a half feet shot like that where i live in bozeman so its literally align re where we are so south of us as the gout and ranged in madison range just full fuller grizzlies clear but just north of town there's the bridge arrange a couple of the range is too
and for whatever reason that is an impasse to the population there's why more or less do they have any idea i've i mean it might be just physicality it might be actually steve were now would be the one that i've heard him talk about this he would not exactly but it's either physical impact ass or it's it's the human proximity humans of the town and all this the way that it relates is that you know if i'm gonna go fighting with my little baby boy i choose to go north just because and i don't think i would always thought that win and i carry bear spray usually like area pistol i don't i probably wilma future that guy he was from bozeman got attacked last year he got tore up and i was horrific yeah this is scalp is hanging off his head was making the videos in ireland he wasn't hunting who was just hiking use scouting and he use bear sprain it didn't work
who is a sound with her cubs yeah so that's about fifty miles from where i live is where he got it wrong sixty miles something like this close jason yeah but not in a mess around with it and i think it's awesome the date they exist i really think it so cool they exist i dont want not exist but at the same time i dont want to be near him there you know i dont want encounter room so it's so were the idea i'm i'm more sensitive to now i really have a deep deep love for them sharks on the other hand we could just killed it was really people are getting like really touchy freely about sharks cause they hear all about the sharks getting slaughtered for shark fin soup although like yeah that govern i think of new york caught a shark fishing totally legal and not an endangered fish at all and he got so much hate because people who it's like we're talking before about science that
so many people want to argue things online but they do want to actually like look into like what are the studies that have been done how much to people actually know what is there now people want to have an opinion they have like narrow window of information and emerson around with my opinions forgive for killing that shark in those people time they said to go investigate everything they have an opinion about nazis issue now but they do of time between about its mad governor was at the governor was it the mayor of new york that they got in trouble for shark waiting get trouble is what he did was totally legal and cooked it and make a shark delicious ass i saw some invest i've ever had poor rico they should certainly serve shark everywhere but you go to a food stand the fry shark put on a stick it's a fish wishing this notion is an ocean out there it is new york governor sparks anger after killing threatened shark but it's not threatened true why is it safe threatened shark does not threaten animal thresher shark yet i dont think that lead said threatened right said fresh
i didn't say in the headline right now you're so threatened i don't think that's true do not think that's a threatened animal not have look at all three species of thresher shark is listed as vulnerable by the international union for conservation of nature because of their declining populations fishing with them is regulated in the national oceanic an atmosphere administration but it is not illegal outcry despite legality you and patrons of the ocean louis pooh said the killing and subsequent photos pour it might be a twat and worked against those trying to conserve dwindling shark numbers ochre yeah i only these rights i that some of them or not man i mean you carefully control what kind of fish catch when you go fishing and if you catch a fifth its legal and we'll do the price i'm with catching release is a dirty secret ladies and gentlemen because people do go catch him
these fishing and release fresh before a lot die it's kind of weird is is that as he could still i think i may never some folks ok are you sure let me think about it i mean it i take it you and i think it is under water for five minutes and put his back he or even worse shovin a fuckin barb through your face and the drowning us that's what we're doing to literally yeah drowning them literally now what means some people use barbarous hooks which are better and the inside of a mouth of a fish is different than our mouth so i mean there's right right there's best practices to be had to harm the fish as little as possible and i think you know that fly session sure yeah fly fishing with sharpless hooks most likely you can most of em we're gonna be fine but a lot of it's a weird practice i just don't at all put in a mac yeah now mother just yeah i'm i'm not i'm not a catch italy's fish
fishermen are not even a huge fishermen i love the edith i love to go to alaska catch a butler fish come home and either for the rest i need to know how but ocean destitute good yet now i love how i've gone fluke fishing of cot flounder before too little baby halibut but delicious but how halibut is supposed to be like one of the most delicious fish to catch and then cook like right away automating i'm it's uh it's one of those rules fleshy whitefish can a group and the chunks how deep fried like like a well coated indeed fried if it did nothing but i'll but if you over cook it though it's like you and honest it just gets tough rules that may be true of other white flash fish like i do but now it's delicious its the most exciting to catch their giant doors yeah his heavy ass their so alien look into two eyes on one side of their head in the flat now the bottom of the ocean you know
but there i migrates right really they start swimming up and down eyes on each side and sort of part of thereof maturation processes they fly over was getting older yasser getting old and i literally slides onto the other side so by stays there once well it's not like i can't go back and forth at how far where does so weird like him it's looks wrong dogmas two eyes on once either had their buys flattened out but full of so much good meet our men such as have you like him my on local live on cognac on we ve been going up their sense of the kid and i mean it's you know it's it that's as meat as a deer right get two hundred pound halibut which is in the most common they can be waving that you're supposed to release the really big ones all right don't they say that maybe i am not sure a friend
my caught one and it was apparently enormous any was furious because the guide they went fishing on the guy the guide cut the line because it was so big you think aegis can in about now no no he said look we gotta let this go because it's a big breeder and that these these big one we are responsible for keeping the populations healthy and because this guy made a living off a fishing is like it's our responsibility to cut this loosen the guy was like what are you tie give out he's like this is he didn't know that that was gonna be an option there and so he's pulling up this were you know he described it is like the site of a wall i asked a wall of a room is like fucking youth out of its truth how but but i know other fish sometimes the big ones don't eat well like us naturally bryce i made my not of an islamic using it mounted a riot
this it s true without year two like i've never eaten a really old dear but they say oh dear just do not take that europe can be it and i know that they can be worse for you shoot an old dog i was more miles and miles that's right and he said it was right how do you change over a winter but my oh brother shot me dear and gave to me for christmas and it was the first slightly off tasting animal that i've tasted in man seven years you know i've been eating a lot animals over my course of time talk more media which are well known for a long time i don't anymore but i allowed animals and they all tasted exceptionally good in my brother shot this one end i don't know what it was it was cold he he killed it and got dark and yet a track it in early the next morning and it did it got shot it no no he hid it well it it it it died fairly close
but don't know it was is primarily ivan means i made sausage out of it and try to that that was hard to get down real without will couple pounds but left still just wasn't good it's weird well maybe was a tarzan lands or something like was it in a rut oh it was muzzle loader season in december in minnesota and that's not what are your answer i don't know what it was well he's your stories you know hey what man that was one of the things that really got me in the hunting not would just the how cool at trip was and how amazing it wasn't a bizarre it is to be out there in total silence no cell phone signal you don't hear not we what do we see like maybe three people the whole week we're out there yet two boats may i remember remember we saw a dude tent and he had like a little wood stove announced like steve stove fuck is this guy's got a stove inside of his tent
ease used to warm and is tat we are freezing dicks off and then we saw another guy who dear in his boat he had shot oh yeah member that canada does a memorable meal man get out get out what to say food was so good one once we did shoe tat dear and we ate it nato's i could lord it still is the best meat ever impasse there's so much connected to it you know it's not just that it's like you want to restaurant have delicious meal as i know you like you thus did your ass for five days humping over mountains finally put a stop to dear shot the dear killed it dragged it back to me cut it out but you didn't know we aided and light and then when steve took that dough head and read it underground because what is that guthrie book big sky the writer was issues blocker yeah yeah i think as i think that of it i think that's the name of the book raisins and arm in that book he talks about cooking a deal
your head under the ground try we sought to berlin ever was incredible is really good who is incredible it was like some sort of exotic smoked pork or something like that to them yea everything that we ate the liver we the hard we we at all it was amazing do so a freezer full of meat right now are you signed shot and elk knocked over so yeah and i have shot a deer in november but i ain't that dear pretty quick i had a of seasonal last year and this year for the first time a long time have been eating more in a local pork and beef and i'm just so sick may i guess angel this fall again and now when you go back home back home for yeah yeah i'm going home a week from two weeks from yesterday have to commercial phrases in the back or cookie yeah and what now i made a barrier to you how did you get back
let me think about now can i could go back over some small yet eu figures somehow get you some i have one of those yeti hoppers at home i could give you that makes me really proud that like you know i was there first i want to know you gotta help me up a meat could stuff i live off it now i don't buy meat anymore and thus i go to a restaurant it's very rare that i go to a store like a butcher sharpened by meat in leicester simple unprepared it's just not as good it's just actually not as well or i find that it's it's different it tastes like a soft lazy animal weird like when you eat a stake like from a put your shot when they taste good they still tastes good it tastes like like this soft almost sick thing like there's a difference in grass fed beef that's one thing that i noticed like way back in the day when i first started learning about grass fed be from the goal what is the difference in people explained to you this difference in the fatty acids and what's what's healthier about it
these animals are not supposed to be the green and when the grain it's bad for their body in that's why they're so fat marveling is actually i'm being credibly unhealthy my car ok some try some grass had meetings with so expensive and then it was smartly like their smaller like the stakes are small and it's a darker meet my and then our member eating it think while this taste really different it does like a grass fed stake tastes different then agree fed stake they look different anyway amount side by side but then you take those and then you put an elk stake next to it in a girl ok that's the real meat man that's what you're supposed to be eating is was we never deep down red meat that you eat it and you just want to run through a fuckin wall i think he's got energy in its feet it makes your body feel differently need so what is it what do you think that is what it is that is that a psychological thank you think that it's actually biological in the meat it is better there's something in their more for you at lahti out you make sense it out for yourself i
a terrible on scientific theory my scientific theories things that run fast are better for you that's why fishes really good for you is hard catch gave they swim fast dear are great they run fast rabbits are great there run fast cows to start a wander around the just meandering and i like your theory but it makes sense that we have more causes it s therefore how those benches well you know my body adam lives in australia adam green tree and in trail yeah they have wild cows were cows at one time or domestic debris loose and they ve been for many many many generations living while in there to dangerous especially the bulls like when you were cowboys riding balls and likewise crazy like an animal that's a big scary animal but again mastic animal that is not fighting off predator
yours it's not mean it's just it doesn't want you to fuck with it has got these giant watermelon testicles and they're just full of this and vinegar and that we don't eat those repeat for people to know when you buy meat from a cow your boy meat from a steer and want to steer is a ball because balls off his young says test restaurant stops so this by his machine and soft but these bulls that adam he's out in the bush in australia are super grasses and very dangerous and one of his friends was torn apart by one gourd really loudly naughty lived they had met vacuum to safety tours guts open and you know he was the only thing he was hunting it i think like you just in the wrong place at the wrong time they see you and they just fuckin charger miseries wanna have a guy the giant horns what's a saying that that you can't you can a male animals balls off an ace stop thinking about ass starts thinking about grass right
i mean it's literal yeah they stop trying to get laid they just eat they just key area and they just the law of testosterone make some soft and motion whereas i'm hand shot a water buffalo in australia and he said that he one piece of meat in his mouth for half an hour trying to chew down while he is practising archery who does not exaggerating chewed one piece of me for a whole half hour what you say about ass though our as as humans though i mean you could easily make an analogy there between cows a wild animal and us me no it is more domesticated snow these things we domesticate i think we are in a where the domesticate somehow but i think we're even more domestic right like like if you can eat one of the doctors to go
eyes man who took up a good level of even more and more a whole the notion that there is to be so much flavouring and marveling plus they probably the large sugar so is probably a lot like sweetness to me yeah was it depends what you're tuesdays for east used to eating wild animals in a duck dynasty geyser taste like shit that's true that's true but if you eat mcdonald and rings what's right was everything which allows lobes host chocolate covered cream filled journeys and might have given us this casting they look great like always come and join us and its image media like what the fuck is wrong with me man i love this tacos i got the town last night and i had to go the first toggery i saw it was the best we have
jim excellent food no i do not have next really right not such good mexicans but colorado has some really good mexican food does it does yeah did it the line of that i think stops i card maybe i am and i dont think has it been north in montana urine dead were you are is amazing now it's worth it you could take a trip from extra food when you are it's like i feel like i'm hiv feeling i shouldn't say this on the park as he i want to buddy moving bozeman it already on her or logical list its everybody i mean cats out of the bag it's not do not build the being there i know but i mean it really is a special place it's the people are so nice dared not dumb either it's not like located no no no it's actually that county has the highest percentage of phds in america why bozeman really erika fact wow near the house
highly educated population but it's also not like bolder whether economic had saved the butterfly now that there are no national about their approach to nature its balanced that you can find some and he could find good yoga you can find you will we stuck with it also rancher right next to you it's really interesting we like diverse neutral is is ever some ways not with multi y know there is now moving as some new york in and that is my least favoured thing about about yeah is not a less labour now but this so many good things about and that the landscape like what you get to see when you there's a stunning and the access to the land is is the huge is merely to a meme involvement from my house in harmony in fought for different direction three different directions you can be at a trail in fifteen minutes just any just endless you know you can get a trail rights are outraged so may i can't talk right now
i too bozeman and you can go if you wanted to four days through the yellowstone ecosystem south yeah i just keep going and keep going and keep you i mean it it connects you too i mean real big wilderness the kind of the kind that you couldn't meaning alaska you find it even bigger but i think in the lower forty eight there it's on peril yeah in the lower forty eight is about its about his wild as it gets in that light me too what i want to bring up to you today because i saw this they were trumpets his his challenging some of the protection of certain national monuments and some public lands today was suddenly came out like i told you of course i knew this was come and there are so many people there were telling me that tromp is gonna protect our public clans casus son is a hunter unlike listen man that guy worships money there is money to be made in de listing these public levy this trump order could roll back publicly
protections from three president's decision era shitstorm on his hands thou millay play there so we could hear exactly says of america's natural resources and i can tell you that group that any right now they're really doing the job rightly said they don't good job i'm going to take care of alaska to don't worry about it and they protect the ability of the people to access and utilize the land which truly belongs to them and belongs to all of us secretary ryan zinke is doing an incredible job and he never overlooks the details easy detail person soon ass he and firm we had a snowstorm big one
and he was out there on the steps of the lincoln memorial shovelling the snow all by himself and he's a strong guy did a good job what the fuck am i was doing a good job he surrounded the first one hundred days we ve taken historic action to eliminate wasteful regulations there being illuminated like nobody's ever seen before there has never been anything like it sometimes ellen if some of the things i am signing as they may be people are like it but i'm doing the right thing what the hell this is so weird that that's president but the way communicates did you see when he'd he just pinned purple heart he just pin purple harlan ana returned bet i got losses leg just happened last couple days it's the most awkward in the weirdest idiot the weirdest single thing i've ever
watch on the screen his his body language and his what he does its bazaars and really bizarre what does it say there in terms of like what the actual rollback mean and what the issue is let's go largely not order which trump sign interior department could lead to the reshaping of twenty four national monuments including grand canyon paris shan't national monument grand staircase ascalon today national monument in the basin range national monument swells hosted pacific ocean monuments including the world war two valor in the pacific national monument though interior secretary ryan's inky cast the move as a way to include local voices in the decision to designate monuments the review of the antiquities actress first signed by
president teddy roosevelt nineteen o six stands in stark relief to years of bipartisan work at conserving lands while the move comes after western republican lawmakers including you toss or an hatch complained that obama over you who's the lot to overprotect land how the fuck do you overprotect land kind of protected but don't over man is weird paralyzing worries the worries gonna be that this would be the beginning of a larger yet a slippery slope why would i wonder what you know about and what i think most people don't when you talk about this that the vast majority of people in this country in these communities in cities and towns and you know even small towns they did you don't understand how much this land that we live in is is this incredible
bizarre experiment in like the people having the that the actual american people owning this incredible swathe of public land yeah it's it's wild like what you're talking about you can walk for days and days into that's the i think they don't know that exists necessarily and i've had given to me more importantly they don't understand the impact that that actually has on people and what it actually means to be able to be part of something like aids is a really deep important thing and i think that people just the eu you get postcard tourism you say all of the national foresaw the national parks and let's drive around to take pictures and that's great that's fine there's a big industry there is very helpful to the economy and but there's something way deeper too then that brings a lot people and i would even say culturally something really deep there that we shouldn't be fucking with not just shouldn't be messing with well
it's been there for a hundred years a hundred and ten years it's conservation part yet absolute itself has been their way right you know sort of like the deep time parlez what really interests me is because abandoned the lad in the right context in any or all of a sudden you know you're you're playing with something way bigger and more powerful and more impact full by just being part of landscape that yeah you know but you're right yeah that the conservation thing is is present in real and there i gripped minnesota north cut in my my first wilderness trip was in the boundary waters of northern minnesota two million acres million acres wilderness of lakes at are interconnected by trails and you got for weeks at a time and canoe cross awakening carrier boat to the next lake in this camp sites in its paradise it's where i fell in love with the idea wilderness it's actually where i fell in love with my for the first lady
at the same i was on a church trip oh no yeah and but so what i would say as far as its shaping people and its importance i mean that's first trip in a wilderness changed my life like that's that's a pretty mile way saying it it it it shaped who i all the way will that gets us to what you're doing now because you you stop workin for zero point zero and we talked about on the last podcast you had done a lot of these wilderness therapy trips where you take like troubled kids lost their way and their parents to know what the fuck do you would take them out into the woods and live with these kids for months the africa tat he had just crazy i think about like that but makes sense like just the five days that i was out there are six days or whatever when i first went to montana with you guys changed the way i thought about willow soon as i really had never been i mean i've kind been too like
wooded areas right in his hand but i had a maybe i went to yellowstone i was a kid but i didn't really remember it it's a different thing than we want alaska right and that was to me that's another level of which has listened to you a natural you really that way we should learn play sure it was uncomfortable but i'm glad we went in retrospect right i mean and i'm glad you went just because of the level of how deep out we are you i mean you know that the misery breaks montana you're out there but in in this spot and and and southeast last will really out there can feel an air bothered about this really wants fell i fell off it like six foot drop i slept and just and luckily i just landed good models like may go fuck yourself up here yeah and not be able to get out of here like a special we do a solo trip out no blanda told there i'm addictive that that feeling
that sort of immense can it takes moreover you are so tiny you are not you know you're not charge anymore it doesn't care about you that's the thing like the thing about like prince wales is this solitude is sadness that's beautiful really weird it's a weird feeling the get away jacket there's no denying your lack of significance in this particular environment it doesn't give a fuck up your credit card does it carefully cell phone it doesn't care who you know where you live carried it doesn't give a fuck is just too thin fang claw and rain and constant rain and beauty just unbelievable beauty
with the like one that's coaster out here i mean you just in hell and on all the son you're on the top of a region and in the end the sun peaks out in a rainbow pops up and the like the technicolor hyper vivid just like raising green it so you know it's a sorry about that of cold that place as a personality right but being in wilderness i've been a wilderness spots all over the globe it's what's so fascinated me how they all have a different via valve a different like life in its it it's it's like i'm ensured that looks different but there's a like a felt sensor a feeling you get from paid like the brooks range in alaska is that the northernmost range mountains and it runs east and west and then above it is the art thou art a plane in an arctic ocean
there is something about being up there and especially i think in the summer went when the sun doesn't really go down it is it is it feels like being on a different planet but may i don't know if i have a word to describe it but yeah man i mean that's what i said i'm addicted to i'm i am and i you know i moved montana for professional but then also because it's where i wanted to live and so i get out hiking all in all i train i hike with that's kind of how i stay fit but i come i need to figure this out because i come home from that fewer mike i just got start you know i've missed the deep immersion of the woods were you will when you were working for mediator and consular ups or at any time and i spent over i think there's something tat happens after you know depends on how long like the longest i've stayed out of time is forty some days but there's something happens i
two days three days five days and where you really does cannot let go of the regular you know i think is actually physiological some of it but whatever it could be just psychological but something shifts you know when you do a real expedition when you do a real thing where you're not your brains not half stuck back and all the other stuff may i go hygiene i love it you know all the time and we get out in the woods it doesn't really do it for me i feel kind of unfulfilled that's interesting so you you just got so addicted to being out there completely disconnected that you when you gone you know you know it's just make it back to town couple hours oh yeah it's just like a little i'm trying think alike in an analogy but it would be like we'll taste it would be like maybe like a five minute porn session verses a week long like lovemaking session that of europe just like a little yellow teaser just not as fun
you do you plan on staying there is that i think so go emmy we think about we deftly will move back east we would either move summer out here or stay there it gets cold is far in the winter the right it does yet not tackled act like knockabout do i grew up in minnesota gets really called for a long time and montana ten at used to do that but global warming something something different this year was pretty mild the year before was really really mild you know a thirty five average temperature relevant that's down it's not that bad i thought it was like thirty five below no you go northern montana the high line area it'll started more of a deep freeze a lot more both my kind of a nice little protect we should stop talking about bozeman people italian we're gonna get people into its largest another factor it is i think the third fastest growing county in the states while so
it makes sense when i was there when we went there took family there last summer i displaced magic so pretty i got a couple or spots though that saving by us don't tell anybody not like when you were in the brooks ranged you put like masks onto go to sleep those you know sleepy masks they say is that the mayor but here the irish sea the t shirts cover your eyes that as they have too because if you just trotted like sleep away a couple hours later be bewildered oh yeah noise weird its ways it's one it's cool it's a very it's a perception changing thing to go out there and watch the sun literally just cannot like kiss the horizon images he's gone he i went to anchorage couple years ago in the summer we were there in july me and my friend army one fish up there we did some shows up there and it was weird i took on the morning was light out we're like what the fuck is this like and the people are coolly shit that's another place something about like those people
like alaska even more extreme because something about people that they deal with nature in a way that everybody else just doesn't oh yeah well they have yeah all the time whether weathers gnarly i mean you can't walk at your house for more in ten mile before eleven giant massive in front of you the oceans right there yeah yeah there i mean anchorages too weird place to i love it it's really interesting to because you think if it is like a bunch of work lumberjack acts and fishermen and weirdos in like people trying to run from the large like that you get there and there's like hungary quality there's about b with gay rights signs people beep in their horns they drove by mike oh this is not what you think it is now rather breweries and be a really good restaurants live cases not does not like hicks i feel like it s a little bit of flavour the pacific northwest of seattle and portland but then in a big dose a weird
yeah a lotta weird my extreme mean is these are people that are there that is where they gonna live and die in ours busy bears everywhere lotta minnesota's and enforced from where i grew up there's there's a big connection lotta people move up to have moved up to alaska so i like i said i grew up go up there fairly i generally in the summer who did you say lives that you know that lives on a claudia guyana dad sister or family that scary place those bears are fuckin giang hu jia they are the biggest brown bears and world they might be i think i've heard that the contractor brown bears in siberia in in russia across at venice iberian but uppercross the the water there they might be bigger could be tolerant about i saw this video this guy remember that show that was on called the hunt it was a show that it was injured
because james hatfield of metallica was the now reader of right and poor so angry at him for narrating this thing that they were talking about boycotting metallica when they played some music festival i never watch our i remember you talking about it and then yeah i know what you're talking about in it was about to bear hunting yeah brown bear hunting which is a really controversial form a hunted because you don't really eat those things many kind of can database like shit it the coastal ones the aspect that is eaten rotten fish all the duff animals tastes like what their what they eat which is really only makes sense but seems pretty counter to i dare trump to try take away some of those alaskan wilderness areas may i mean the way that the real worry is that he's gonna let people drill annum and they're gonna destroy something that's the real worry the real worry is the reason why he's releasing or of relaxing somebody's regulations is that he wants a lead industry get in there
and as soon as they serve frack gang and polluting wells and rivers and richest it's fuckin dangerous man it's just it's something that if they do fuck it up it could be fucked up for a hundred generations have you ever live in new york city not in the city of the issue and newer shell which has ratified the bronx i lived there for seven years or so and that if their if there wasn't the existence of central park and i lived in brooklyn so prospect park if those two green places didn't exist while i lived there i would have probably lost my mind or just moved right i feel like these big areas wilderness we have have you known as women we will not be ok as it has humans
mean like individually sure it isn't gonna here's my worry my worry is that in the general american public or or the general public doesn't have enough connection or real life experience to know why to care so much right now that's a big deal and its a lot of different angles you could take on matters that there's so much but there's just something that the i wouldn't i wouldn't i mean if it really gets intense dense i'm gonna have to basically drop what i'm doing do everything i can to stop them from from our in these places not ok be done my my real concern is not just this what's going on now but the future and then also when you really consider it overpopulation i mean their seven and a half billion people on the planet now most recent census missis that's a half a billion increase over the last i don't know how many years but it has been that many it was six billion
just a few years ago i remembered that was a number that they bandied about like a decade or two ago now seven and have like what happens when it gets to be thirty like where we gonna put the mother fuck what is the carrying capacity meanwhile area twitter we're like rats and sinking ship yeah we're just scrambling everywhere we're everywhere was items can does not another animal like us we're on every fuckin patch of land you can find too weird but we're awesome accept these wilna spots regular soldiers at her and world population is our real how do they know that births today is based on average look at the birth today led galoshe that the numbers s role in my car the difference between the birthday and the deaths today that's incredible peel alibis movements of pillar dine slows fuck population growth today so that the average hundred thirty nine thousand people today
forty four million this year my god it's weird but that scary and what the u s four hundred i think with a three hundred plus mexicans three twenty six it says see but that's they're not counting the not counting all the people at snuck in i still don't think they know like one when they say los angeles sailor angela twenty million a mike okay and what about the mexicans like and i'm not aunt i'm asking me way shape or form these gentlemen don't i'm just looking at this pragmatically there's a fuck shit load of illegal aliens here which i support also many people are here that any given time don't live here but a year on vacation are working here for a week that's good horizon yeah just added people for hundreds of thousands of i would imagine that mean yeah probably
when you get on the four or five new head to san diego and nato she six hours ago is this like what have we done this mass of humans to so many of us but when you get here and you realize all you guys i'm any whether it is there but you could also go thirty miles outside city and have the same either conjure jeopardy might not the people yeah but you know you don't get the same taco stance right now i get it i like i love cities man i miss it i miss lindon yorks it s really do dear i wouldn't traded at this point you know i was younger and single in new york had again fun time and end moved montana have a family now it's kind of perfect fur from where a man my life so i really need anything else yeah that's the balance right as there is no really perfect place it's like there's place is that are perfect for certain thing like if you're comedian lausanne
since the us play seed los angeles in new york i prefer los angeles there's a lot clogged is a lot of comedians like the most of the best comedians in the world live here it's a great place for us to network and we work together and stuff like that and if you if want to be in that business is probably the best place in the world do it so that's one of the reasons it keeps me around here plus the podcast knowledge ass but for peace of mind it's not the best place no does that actually fuck with yes yeah than the numbers of humans is just its untenable new closer north korea but if you know a manifest nuke california where you gonna go in the whole thing's gonna be a mess mike might what you might be better off it lands in your head so we say about asteroids are you know a b that guy in the movie that like is like storing food
baseman staying up all night to shoot vandals and his people are trying to steal your canned goods that doesn't sound fun life live like and then what happens dive old age diebold age protecting your canned goods yea and fight or flight entire life far that out that slut that rock land running your fuckin head i stress that a lot about where the perfect place to live wasn't scared that up does exist doesn't exist there this places you don't want to be caught dead like florida i like floored how dare you i like it in the park sarasota no my wife was raised on captive island which is on the south coast ok a key west is pretty dope yet down there is pretty clear that's skip wanna drink intake maps or fish or yeah there listen cool stuff but it's just floored is so fucked up its they ve
i've done such damage to florida with their oxy con regulations no one time there were more oxy con prescriptions in florida than they were entire country combined cheers yes i was insane is this recent as as like reason in these in these late struggles yeah there's a document that do not call the oxy cotton express that was on vanguard and dumb these people that went down there they went under cover and saw how easy it is to buy opiates down there and with it they have these one stop shops have these pain management centres we'd go in its hey dogma back back as kill me doctor you needs pills go an extra so he'd right you're prescription eager right next door you get the pills and then boom you're off to the races they didn't have a database which meant that you could go to doktor jamie and say dark jamie acts kill me doc jamie gives you a prescription you buy some opium pills or whatever the fuck there and then
to me and you go talk august kill a man like all user that should have been a source there and then set sold elsewhere or delay purposely made their regulations lacks there so they can make more money so people are buying them and then bringing them and selling them in kentucky and uptown ohio the in it that's what he called the octagon express the highway that lead from florida to the rest the country is on yeah i was sick and a lot of the lost their lives lovable lost like who they were because the addiction did the numbers were insanely google the name like what we or the numbers of oxy cottons or oxy co don't i still want nor the differences and using the right there
reports lately showing that the the life expectancy or the early death rate of middle age white men specifically lately has dropped for the first time in dozens herb because pain pills or part of it the calling of deaths of of despair whoop how there being jeez written about is litter the deaths of despair it's it's jesus hides heavy it's real heavy that i have there's been a spate of articles of the last three or four months just that's really diving into millions guys men here it is not doctors in florida prescribed ten times more oxy codeine pills than every other state in the country combined and this is now right wouldn't this article from actually from twenty eleven unimpeded when the right when it came there we go get the updated near does matter it just it's a crazy place that it wishes
that way despair is one of the scariest words right despair yahoo here but some unlike despair and lonely does or to really so that's the other word that through using is is loneliness has been there now measuring it and loneliness is is as or worse of a health issue in our country than smoking heavily smoke in there this all this there's this new only missus loneliness is isn't overpopulation coincided with loneliness thinking tat were thrust further and further closer together and don't know each other and where more and more disconnected and now and it's literally said there's a whole new our know how new but it's called interpersonal neurobiology is the science of our brain wiring and envious physiological wiring on how were yet this is what the articles
loneliness might be a bigger health risk than smoking or obesity wow that's dark dude it's dark but now with the in my wife they expire i've had my life i'm when i read that i'm like of course diarrhoea it makes sense we are disconnected people we are electronically digitally connected in a crazy way but in a human way and it is can literally is harming us and people are dying and it's crazy it's crazy stuff fascinating like feelings have an effect on your health the feeling of loneliness tat feeling of despair its how'd you get your vegetables engaging exercise in a new if you feel despair and you feel loneliness your body is actually like being harmed but there's a real like practical reason for that and that's because we are when we come out is babies we are the most dependent individuals so like our economy
like on your pants on your mother mc we are completely socially dependent when were born completely and so you know it maslovs hierarchy of needs that sounds like you know to be ok i'll take care of breathing in water and your basic functions but there's there's been studies recently by these by august that are showing that these social needs are just as or even like come before some of these physical needs this there's if it crazy man in this literally a book called social by guy named matthew liebermann i've gotta check it out so what they are finding is that there's like two parts of our operating and this is in a good to be me pairing it down but one is the analytical thinking deciding thing and the other is the social awareness brain which is always like always checking in on how am i
to others and it is also the car that brain that actually we can elect a meadow cognitive part in the part that i can they call it mind but really it is just it's just by us sitting here i can kind of get a sense of how you feel what you're thinking right just by that the connection that we have and just it's part of we are so when our analytical brain is offline this otherwise the social one pops on immediately so so what their theorizing is that that is like the fundamental need for humans in safety and survival is how are we relating to each other as it as a group but it makes sense if you look i mean to me it makes sense in we are social animals we forget that i think that you look at other species of monkeys or walls or whatever i mean
there might be a period of time where say oh a wolf what will get kicked out of a pact for while he'll go do his thing but eventually come back to pack it's not safe for us humans and animals so if animals like these to be isolated it's it's not and as others all these parts of us that just if we're not connected to other people in in a very direct and true way there's these sort of deep down emotional and physiology you call that come come right and and they entered the real and that's what the neurobiology is showing which is really an interesting and we can just think about that but there actually showing it now that if we're not really connected to each other we're gonna be freaked out when i can be o k and and i really believe that this really drives a lot of the internal struggle we have in were really
as part of getting into that's part of my what i'm trying to bring in a world and my platform now is is just too you know stand up and say hey we need each other and we can do it it's not ever i speak specifically right at such short social stigma of ours to not be real or opener connected or vulnerable with guys agenda and it sir it's cool to see the science coming out because its i've always anecdotal evidence had been out the wood wood with kids are being in a man's europe with guys are running a retreat or whatever this is of how powerful it is too like set down all our differences and just be there with the air but other scientists is really lighted yeah man loneliest i mean we cannot think about loneliness isn't fun it's not doesn't feel good but the other this is crazy to that their showing that emotional pain like set the same centres of our brain its physical pain and
the one study showed that an insult to someone had much more painful and long term effects than slamming somebody with a hammer hitting the hand with him so like our emotional pain literally actually exists in the body like it is actual pain the reason that it so uncomfortable to feel our emotions which it is you know i mean to say it is that it actually hurts like actually i mean there's like people say things like you broke my heart or i'm dying of heart ache or whatever but that the scientists catching up and showing us that this pain is actual it's real and were not address sing it we're not even aware of it through into low that's deep you know it's interesting to because what were you saying about us being disconnected and how unhealthy it is now an unhealthy loneliness as it sort of confirmed
these ideas it i've always had that the human race itself is not like a group of individuals but a super organism much like the human body is the human body like requires all the bacteria in your got all the skin flora all the different things that compose the actual physical structure of the human body at whereas we think of it i think there's nutty number of how much bacteria how many bacterial cells are in your body versus how many human cell right and is far out numbers the human cells and it's just that we think of ourselves as i mike and i put my shoes on and i go to work as i am i can but my dear a system your system of individual organisms that are collectively keeping this thing alive and when the imbalances off like when someone take into and fox up their got flora like litter
you like nuclear a part of your civilization right and you know to try to save something like if you had some sort of a surgery and you worried about an infection which is kind of like invading army coming in and take you ever of your leg that you haven't operated on a year would be like slashing the tires of all of our transport system in the country like that that's a lot things in an outright and even has an impact on your your health mentally our terms of like how are you feel your europe depression a lot of that is connected let go did emily connected to your diet and how that affects your gut flora and affects the way your boss produces serotonin indaba dopamine and its banana man oh yeah no idea is scientists bust the myth that are bodies have more bacteria than human cells decades old assumption about mike oh biota revisit it ok what's the new data one the one and set a town so why are as much okay so
i used to say was ten to one but now it's one hundred and twenty one okay wow that's still crazy enough it still like your half terrier i like that analogy though of the body as is like a civilization let me think about if you're one of your i don't know one important neuron oneself neural solar something decided just to go round cannot not being connection with the rest you right i mean i don't know and works allow right i don't know i don't what happened your body would probably get rid of it and get it out of their or i don't know maybe some just really reaching here but at some sort of robe sell at that point i like to answer a seller something had probably be attacked so yeah if he eyed i think that if you take out analogy in our civilization hairs we're hurtin really hurt and because we were really not
you know we are working together obviously in practical ways a lot of times in our work and commerce and in the world is functioning but i think ana like a health and fulfilment level were missing something pretty deeply yeah while also like let's talk about people that are disconnected from actual humans but connect durham cyber way like how many people really lonely in terms of like physical touch and communication with friends and but they sit in front of their computer all day and they interact with people online which shows like some of the most unhealthy communities you'll ever encounter art online message boards and forums where he bore just anonymous and interact when people without what we're talking about early like what the reasons why i like to do podcast with a person in i've only on one podcast ever through skype and that was with john anthony west of because he was living in new york and he's
is this really important egyptologist and i really want to talk to him is the only way i could get him to do it was do it through skype so good one i prefer to sit there with people because i want to doesn't i want to feel their energy i wanna i feel like you doing this conversation you get to understand each other totalling now i get in and then i think i can hear in your podcast too and i think that the and again i keep hidden the biology part but there's a to me i think that their in means i can sense that there's a something else and means giving is triggered right if we talk on the phone there is something and its might be this other party or brain but its lit up right now because i can i can space early in out soon feel where you are rising
as in all other yeah and its set sense of connection it's that real i think and i think that is in a really apparent in your part gases that you got you city and really connected somebody just run with it and i think that sir it's a big it's a big thing man i mean i mean i think of lake so apart what i do is i help proliferate this idea of men's groups across the country were guys get together for exactly what we're talking about it's just like you know the intent of them is to get together challenges support each other's growth a person off and is just a simple sort of protocol on a simple sort of designers are sort of its there's a structure to it but the whole point is its remedial innocent
it's that in our culture in general but guys especially in our culture don't have this this on fettered place to really show up and actually connect with each other scary thing i mean it's a it's it's you know its until now and and still now but hopefully not too long i really think that stigma of not being connected is it's a big deal and and i think that back to the cyber thing that you're saying like we can we can get that hit the sir poland by getting alike on facebook or instagram or would we get that but that pay i mean i really want to make a comparison towards actually sitting sitting down with somebody in actually feeling and experiencing them yeah it's you can't make it compares now it's not ok them yeah some indifferent amateur tricky
because i rely on social media to let people know that i have a podcast coming out you know like rep for the part castle yes your twitter is like a tweet it and then i also like to promote comedy dates until people know about cool shit that i find but that the interaction is so it's so weird like especially is like a bunch different kinds of actually instagram is one of the weird ones because the country is people all have blocked pages it's like their blacken and they just say nasty shit to people but they have these block pages right but i think that that's it so funny huh that seems to be like it's oh common but it makes sense it's like their blocked off attacking people insane shitty things to be borne in mind even target about to me i'm talking about when i go to someone else's page and i read country things i always go that i always see that guy's block yuppies blocked how funny like or comments i guess weird thing that people
known with each other with not real interaction and i feel like the people that are perpetrating it are extremely and healthy which is why they're saying such nasty vicious shit in the first place it's real really odd their lonely yeah i mean or in some way or disease did or disinfect and charged or they feel inferior and so they lash out and when other people to feel the way they feel and so one what i feel when you say that like one thing that's missing there is empathy in that interact whatever that interaction this removed store that you're making up some cretonne like whatever you want the world you know you yeah reacting you shit out into the world do not actually slowing down enough to you know you're and give opinions or whatever all day long but you know that now but to what you said though it is a weird position but i think the way that things are going so we are using these tools the social media to connect us in to get messages out
but you know the way that that like the millennium generation is going is that they what they want to spend their money on a meaningful experiences which means you know generally speaking alive in person that there is a wave of things going back to that so you know as a tool we need that i mean this is amazing feat of this platform this pike ass you have a touching so many bill or just twitter whatever it is but then it can be you know used for incredible good to bring people together i think and then and so what's missing in that in that social media interaction automobile it is up maybe doesn't i don't really know because a message in a bottle he's got a measured good message not gonna do not you have to like be cognisant leo where i think of how the people can receive it without actually getting that reception back from them and that's where it gets real where it and you have to like i think apply
by the same principles that you would in communicating with other people like without actually communicating with without seeing them without getting the social cues outlook in him in the eye and where where weird thing man this might not make sense would bring it back to connect to the wilderness stuff what we're talking about the sense of this sort of isolation and loneliness that we have and for me in my life where i learned to connect with others really learn to sort of give it up let go be present with people was in the wilderness it was it was doing that job out in the desert with kids out there for eight to twenty days at a time with these kids where that was my job it was my job to simply be with them and in a way to be with them way that was you know i've seen a lot of boundaries and everything but to be really real just to be totally real modest and straightforward com
bullshit when we saw bullshit be sympathetic and it was just like this crazy crash course in human connection and i happened to be out in the wilderness but so what i think this is this is a little tied together but me i started to feel way way way more human being out there in the wilderness by just being other was quiet being out there where it like i sat on iraq i was sitting on iraq and the sun was army and all of my senses were engaged in a very aware of my body we were in these groups where we're being
practicing being very aware of what we felt and being able to feel express that and it just felt like in a sense then for me it all comes back to to be in the wilderness but since then all the other things have engaged in meditation the man's group stuff all the other person even psychedelic things like the other things that have experienced all for me tie back to that thing in it it comes down to what i feel is like being totally as much as it can truly present yeah like just just here right now and you can write a twitter message from that place of being present right that's what i mean this does nothing necessarily wrong or bad about that but dumb but dont checked of responses every three minutes six hours like a maniac yeah yeah it's it's a matter of i guess rationally rationing some other
that social media stuff or rationing some of that online interaction with other people i feel it as time has gone on i've i've gotten much more of my online interaction in it like an educational form terms of like interesting article right science things things it don't involve like social interaction or opinion as much as they involve really fascinating facts like gum something that i found today they think that north america might have been settled by humans as much as a hundred thousand years earlier than they thought i saw you see it's insane like that kind of freaks me out my i love that kind of stuff because that dakota stuff is just your curiosity impure wonder and and and the imagination goes wild thinking about what it must have been like to be one
early humans surviving or trying to survive and they didn't we wouldn't be here and these these macedon fossils they found them only were shattered and there's rocks near by that do not seem like they were brought anywhere so one ninety two there were doing highway construction near san diego and they found these looking bones and then they start doing these studies on them and they found their mastodon bonds and they didn't have the ability to do carbon test and get a real accurate assessment back than some but now they do and so now when their checking these bone in the way these bones had been shattered they're pretty sure that they had been shattered purposely went to get to the marrow law so that yeah that's a great example of a positive benefit yesterday
i am a meditative about eighty minutes or so and then i am i sat up afterwards and i clicked on my phone and open facebook in the first thing i click tough say was a visit of a woman in slow motion who stuck her ass out the window the bus into shall this i didn't i didn't do i built a laugh to myself man i'm just like in the zone in ireland this beautiful plays a mental open watch my good remind me of counts one joke that shutting out the car eighty miles an hour youtube video i thank you i've i've deftly seen too many those videos i've seen to any videos people get beat up to too many pete videos street fides timid videos of people like skateboard accidents where they fuckin flippant on their head it's hard to now watch very hard and very it's very hard
maybe i feel like there's something to be learned in those videos like almost one show my kids hey don't try to do flips fiona will you where are your fuckin head but we understand the consequences and having someone else do it so he can and from them they ve already done it so here learned does what does why you don't fuck with a tiger see was the geiger killed by now you now you know this is why you don't do this way don't do that like there's gotta be some educational value yeah i'm sure that's all i can reach a little i mean we have some pretty strong instincts interested let's say don't fuck now but kids man it's like it's also dumb kids are there as educational tools for the survivors so you're supposed to see that one kid poke the tiger and yet more deal i share i can't believe you actually broken zoo now bobby's gone like bobby likes me less that joseph campbell story
the hero that it goes all the way back to the one person who sacrificed their life and get killed by the predator in front of the tribe and so that the tribe could survive and that they they worshiped that person for doing that yet the other here goes off let us and brings it backs the community in everybody's better for you or you watch the hero get mall to him he's a martyr and you escape while the hyenas are eating em what are they we thought or we worked with kids out in the woods was that we call the natural consequences right which it which just means that when you do something something else happened there is a natural reaction and it was used allotted times opposition or instead of of like a penalty system right so if you do something bad we could we could lay this punishment on top of a like we're kind i mean well so for example if
if somebody was gonna harm themselves or somebody else you got carpet you don't you get it would put out a sharp and your shoes and everything will be taken away from union you couldn't leave the top like that that is where you had to stay because you can hurt yourself you can hurt anybody else why so that was you know at some of that you with their shoes what did you put them in a tent a new target and so they had its day like under tarp is at the idea it was raining happen now i mean otherwise it's just it was just basically a time out and you know you just stay air can interact with the group your by yourself whatever that's agent the best example but just used so if you swore you could some programmes would in our maybe have appoint system you get penalized crimes yeah yeah i mean it wasn't aims will soon it wasn't really upheld unto i'm region for a good example here
i what i'm trying to say is that if you do something shitty generally you heard other morality and things things happen and so what we i d show that if if kids do something should to pay attention and and that they would see the harm their creating themselves by by harming other being rather than just like you know in societies locking a kid up for you know breaking the law it would be maybe if you break a window you in this other way you would go and them actually see and experience that the the shit that other people had to do to fix the window well you know more repetitive type a justice system rather than i got a penalty punitive punitive riah right so when you did take these kids like what was like the most extreme example somebody like really disturbed because i would imagine it would be like a big sort of like the result but lotta variables like some people would be kind
fucked up and some people be really fucked up is probably spectrum rent our absolute generally speaking very few were i would say actually fucked up very very a very very but where was a case of molten they were kids in families and then like communities that did not a mixed for indeed with him then in mentors they didn't have people to their parents that that guy the right direction i don't know like being a kid is is it you're supposed to test boundaries right it's like that the party or development in europe ontogeny that like you are defining your personality defining who you are and you need to test the boundaries and some kids made only to progress at least two thousand maybe more kids altogether
start a lot right from a lot for a long time and only one i went to bed at night worried that might get my head kicked in regional just one one kid and maybe one or two other kids that i walked away actually not in weighing being around them almost every other single one it was just like what ways to do about the one that you worried about in your head kicked in you know just kind of this kind of sat with it is really nothing did it was just again nationally or through the entire experience that was through the whole thing urging us through the air was uncomfortable fuck that would happen him alone i have no idea in others theirs in their laws and their things you don't generally get to stay in touch
this was actually at a state programmes of this was in lieu of a jail sentence they came out it was locked up while what did he do i don't remember i don't know probably stolen car beat somebody upper out i don't know it was a super aggressive he wasn't no but he had that he had this i had the feeling that he had no empathy the four others pay right he couldn't feel that that's it that's the only time at ever got any international day those kids arrogance that that sent chills through me in those like and maybe maybe i didn't feel in any practical sense that he was gonna hurt me but i had the sense that if he did he wouldn't care right because there wasn't that connection the same thing we're talking nonsense like that's the thing get drafted in a group of eight
boys are young men and so funny like you could and we worked for therapists with therapists common asta but all like the fundamental thing i took away from that experience was that in order for these for these guys to grow up and sort of move on get goin in their lives in what they needed with just somebody like nita just show what i did were really not complicated right yeah and answer just let them air things out and talk about better ways to do things and sort of get some perspective now you know with maybe talk but this last but then they go home and not necessarily have that support anymore and be back in their old a rina aware whereas in other off disney world family dynamic and all that and it ended the hard way it so i left that whole experience just
i do know that it's a muscle we can practise empathy is something that right that we can get better at and that we can pay more attention to finance frightened her fucked up young kid without we just can't get done it when you have some one that has no empathy though what can be done to instil empathy and sullen lacks it if anything so i don't know you know if you gonna far end of the spectrum where there's nothing i don't know i don't know if that's possible but i do know that it's a muscle we can practise empathy is something that right we get better at and that we can pay more attention without empathy like how what sort of motivation do they have to gain empathy philip no one is shown towards them i don't know what's so that's
i think that that is possible to gain and unit has been what is that a child called it have you her labour yeah yeah i mean i think it's possible in the much what's incredibly sad but real is that i think some people you know grow up in an in their brains develop they develop as humans where they don't have that as the actual wiring the actual state to take to receive that i think that that is possible to get a child called it i mean i think it's possible in but in a less extreme cases in other words the way works in prison i guess it leaves the prisoner pirnie made off as you get fifteen minutes to talk on the phone and then you have to wait fifteen minutes before he could talk again in fifteen minutes again and so they this is
and if it of others the right of veto benefited themselves do there is my brother sub deserted podcast on radio lab about bernie madoff and this guy contacted bernie made he sent em letters and finally bertie made of them and they did this interview other word works in prison i guess it leads to pray more bernie made off is you get fifteen minutes to talk on the phone and then you have to wait fifteen minutes before he could talk again in fifteen minutes again and so they this is how they did it you like fifty minutes on fifty mb is offered and after wily sorted gained is trust anyone deep into this whole deception started and bernie made off if you don't know the whole story burning now is the guy had this gigantic ponzi scheme and stole billions of dollars from people and scott ponzi supernova is the radio lab episode and one of the things
was the most shilling was how little empathy he had towards the people that he ripped off right whose lives have been destroyed son committed suicide attacks bullock literally went from having all this money to being so broke their like dumpster diving care didn't give a fuck that mean he he'd had no empathy and he's a monster he answered it's really interesting to see you like this guy's reaction to bernie made offs lack of empathy and a real icing somewhere on line i got this guy does not care there was one of the things that the investigators said about him that it didn't to bother him at all that he had done this to these people that would put bothered him was that he had gotten caught but it didn't bother him that these people had been devastated what bothered him was like that people had made money you weren't giving that money back like he called one guy and told them the guide me
like nine billion dollars he's worth nine billion dollars or other seven billion of it had come from burning made offs ponzi scheme they told me that seven billion dollars by god hardtack dramatist poor which is kind of hilarious cuz you can't live with two billion i guess or maybe it's not liquid maybe couldn't give back the seven billy maybe was impossible is tied up in real estate and holdings in this and that the other thing but is an amazing that one person's reality could ass i would love to step into his head forsake aren't you the debris made have just to see what it felt like i happened to be very helpful to build a new step in and i because just to see i can't picture it is can picture it i could also couldn't picture not being able to live at two billion dollars either what what is it i aids that thou weirdness of the game right as i you score hundred points one score thousand points grow thousand and one score millions four million one score billion it's like you never stop and people
ever they never achieve peace like that's what i was a civil bill gates i quite a fuck his bill gates still working delegated here about him being them riches and now is not mean he really did sort of find some sort of a balance and now almost all of his work is done towards humanitarian efforts seized i don't it's a lot of money order charities what i mean a lot of really good work post his microsoft career which is a really unique that a guy's or a found his way founders but kept a lot of money yet i am wrong now apparently he's got sums dupe fuck ass well ass submarine in the pacific northwest were like so much break in his house you fuckin escape and a summary i kayak by his house once again today you the secret service fuckin swarm you asked wearing on nobody i conceded by the programme loud turn to swap by his house
doesn't work well it was a private island at least the place that i was that i was just hold by the guy was with we were actually thrown crab parts out of kayaking i was told it was his like house out of his main house might have been one of his houses but we were you know i don't know fifty yards off shore and as a private eye private island that's when you bought when you're on and was an island tyler parry the guy makes a shitty movies tv shows us awful shows tyler perry ere he has a prominent his programme where an identical fellow i actually feel some sad news for birdie made off really i am i mean that's i don't know he's as tortured as you know i think is harder to feel empathy for him but he's as toward human is i don't know pick anybody maybe right yeah maybe maybe not i'm pretty sure i don't know that's a fact but i do know if you
if you're hurting that many people are you are you kidding me like you aren't feelin you'll be all right now you know it's it's weird lie like when do you feel bad for someone do you feel bad for jeffrey dahmer like how did he become that cannibal murderer guy that happen you know what what causes some one to go from like you have a boy who were causes someone to go from your cue oh baby boy to being some monster yeah a cat is at what is it about people yet it makes it possible for someone to go even not for two monster but have other young boy that you were working with it had no empathy worried about sleeping near mike what happens like the development process of a human being is way more fascinating to me as an adult
children than it was when i was young man when i was young man and i was single on it in every kids i thought people are fucked up some people were read the people are fucked up fuck dam and death penalty in league kicked arousing sounded obsessed with this my all my life really gonna meet absolutely like what what is this process of growing have ever heard the novel sit harper no by herman hesse has much to say that but it's a classic novel author from germany and ended it chronicles the life of a young guy named said arthur but the whole book what it is it goes through his entire life from when he was born until he dies and in it are these like very specific stages of life so here in his like young wandering years and then he needs to work so city and end he learns from a from a trader and then he needs to learn about love so he so he gets with a prostitute but but all in these big stages in that book did something to me and an early age at just got obsessed
with this process of maturing and theirs it there's a term for called ontogeny which is that the price says of an organism growth over their lifespan it's just this natural sort of architecture and ontogeny of a tree as it is a seed the drops in its sprouts and then it routes and grows and then it dies and an end yeah it's been an obsession of mine and you know thrown into thou work of working with kids and yet its aims oh fascinating by and i dont have obviously any gino solid here's how it goes but what are they look into it for a long time and i just i think that only we back the book the ice to read that book out loud to these groups of kids as regards iran
fire nightmare reed i'm not gonna be out there for days he arrived to read a novel out loud and you know it's just something poetic not about just the words but about watching the life someone's life on fault as a whole story and watching them grow up has just it's weird fascination i haven't and specifically because an outcome that keeps saying comes back to that time in the but but i only worked with males of boys and it wasn't i didn't choose to do that i felt like do a lot of girls do the same sort of therapy yeah yeah i think must go with women too is probably acca problem with men going out there with girls don't they'll do mixed leadership groups like a male and female for both boys and girls but yeah there's always a girl with the girls the young man i just got obsessed with this what what how do we grow up what does it look like was feel like
how come it's not happening because that's a big part of what i felt as i looked around is that i think that a lot of adult physically adult man walk around with parts of themselves that are still in their tea six to eight brian you know that there's this human maturation process is human journey that we all have available to us that i you know i think we're too busy a lot of times to let it actually flow and happen i think that's true true but i also think that there is a maturation process that comes from overcoming obstacles a lotta people just don't encounter they dont encountered difficult so they don't learn about themselves that's part of it but i think that a lot of times even if they do encounter difficulties they dont let themselves actually feel they dont let themselves experience it re like
everybody has shitty things happen then but you can keep that shitty thing at a distance from the iraqi like kind of address it you can sort of an act out instead but unless you actually feel it i mean think about and this this gets into things like trauma and resilience and how people are able to move on from hardship right and add a lot the research there's a psychiatrist got bessel vander coke never hurt him no fascinating did he say he started working with the vizier in boston and worked with return vets from from vietnam and then did this whole lifetime of study about trauma and how it comes into humans and hiking move through it and i can heal at all this stuff and it it just it basically comes down to being able
to be more resilient to be able to get over things to say definite family or an attack or an assault or whatever whatever their trauma could be that if you don't allow the body and the your system to actually go through feel and process what's going on you eat lock it up you lock it up you like and it it doesn't it i mean it's almost like a gets implanted in you somewhere and then it just like this festers esters and it's in the cool thing is that the in that new the science knows is showing the diverse specifics of this is not just a minute still theory right but it's so if you like a got off what what we were talking about their but yeah i feel like like you said being able overcome things of course only a part of that is just to me again speaking more from a male perspective here but
part of that and i think a lot of what culture says it's ok is let's horse our way through this right let forza let's push harder let's let's conquer our fears our feelings that's let's not address delicious push right run through the wall radically were taken at the presence where work so that's it that's the thing than theirs is other whole way take to get through hardship which is by actually said entering to it and letting you dislike brilliant system that we average humans to process it and then get through it by bryan in that's that's that's away to wholeness and in health in some way i think that both in for i mean like yet you need to be able to you know and ignore the pain and power your way up that mountain or or save somebody that's getting hurt or whatever and then there's other part i think it needs to be in balance which is accepting what's happening in getting through i just away to accept what's happening
your body do which is why i also think this is an extreme lack of discipline that a lot of people have and that discipline a lot of it comes from over coming difficult obstacles and understanding the work that's required get things done making these little leaps and bounds making these improvements in your life getting better things think those things are really critical to the human mind the mind has desires and one of the big desires as it has a desire for improvement and its desire to achieve goals and there's a lot of people there these goals are laid out by other people these goals are like graduating from third grade graduating from for quite a lot of shit you don't want to do so these goals are meaningless t see never feel like you ve accomplished anything that you actually want to do you know you're a thirty five year old man work for an insurance company you dont want to be there you don't have any real part of you that you ve nurtured you just sort of plug
you and in these other weird shapes and conform to them and then he just article fuckin crazy and probably bitched about it all the way along probably you probably complained in knowing in euro wine you little twat and you're out here just half com you're not the freeway bp born given him the finger i mean that's a lot of humans run into that's a lotta the lot of this life so yeah and that points directly to what now i do not i'm building is is that so you take ada those guys eyes and we set up as us a room you say our in space right here fuck all that we're gonna be actually honest and say what were few but maybe can't even really access like all that frustration all that shit whenever it could be anything so hard for he will do right like when it were current techniques to employ to get someone like save you get some eyes closed off and has been bullshitting his way through life and then all certain areas is thirty five year old guys really troubled is in a room with yeah how'd you get that guy to open our safety
and say of leading by example and being vulnerable by example and when somebody's its partners connection like sitting down somebody that if you after one last creates a guy's came up to me said safety is the new i alaska which is maybe a strange thing to say but he said he'd been all over the world doing drugs trying to find growth trying to find himself and we want i went to this retreat and all we did was sit down and say okay our intent in other words what we actually are doing here is just making this you're not gonna be you gonna be supported you're not gonna be laughed at take me to safe space to do it and then you just i've been and lead by example and that example like plugs others right into it it is amazing like symbiotic thing that happened so right and and people just sometimes break open sometimes crack slowly open but
now all of a sudden so maybe after thirty five years of only being other people's program you get in touch with what you actually what you actually want and who you actually are just like this fucking is a homepage i think for a lot people it's really difficult to try to do what you actually want to because you ve spent so much time warning yourself with material items for these little accomplishments that eve eve become in debt you really can escape the system hullo real problem problems people they how lonely car that their leasing they have a house that there renting or that even worse that they bought and then they their stock and then they don't know what the fuck do they have to keep this insurance company job and it just rotting them out from the inside totally yeah that mean there's like a whole society built on trying to keep you not who you are right and i think you know boats are what were finding which is really amazing is that if you stay
that surface level if you stay on that sort of i don't so it trying to improve yourself goes so far but it's can like an iceberg thing right so like if your goal is to make more money right and an years ago and you going toward it in and you listen apart cancer you do all this stuff we need to figure out how to do it how do i do it how right and you keep hidden a wall you keep getting sort of thrown down and you don't really understand it underneath meanwhile is this massive sort of like pent up shit and if you address that massive pent up shit then all the sudden getting to that goal is whole different story to hold different story it sir it's it's like always trimming that like if you need to get rid of
tree new yard but all you do is every day you chop the least awful leaves off but if you dress that the routes the deeper stuff and of again as a stigma against that but she for deeds rights of workers as they guys to guys don't want to do into whew hippies spiritual shit i do in their annoying sure yet if we really want to get into it right exactly in i mean i don't know and off i pull this off or not but i feel fluent in in like in abroad culture and fluent in you know like i've i've gone down that spiritual out tune we have recognised when the spirits route is legitimate and when the spiritual route is like a ruse as well sometimes even the spiritual rather just something that someone is plugged themselves into to try find some meaning exact meanwhile is not authentic exactly
so how are you doing this if your mommy interrupting like what you when you're so you're you're planning on taking guys like say save on that there five euro guy gather worse insurance company for example and i'm just fucked up and that is the ongoing crazy man i need to do something hey this interesting to me that wilderness therapy what does it mean dan dodi what does that mean how do i get involved in this and how it how do you get me out of his regiment yet so through three things were offering right now and the first is is the wilderness route which is like a sixty expedition and you can see up pay some money and go in the woods and change life like pre but will climb out as well go fishing will and all along cell set up this sense of safety in this community in the sense of the boy and how many guys to go with you no ten or twelve for that as you and these ten people a couple of the leaders in my copper leaders because we have to deal with interpersonal despair it's another nonsense you gonna hafta likely encounter rent
so i'm i'm working with some guides to just hair together logistical stuff so that i can manage the group the group of more that's one offering that's that's that's that's kind of our capstone offered we're doing weaken retreat and we ve been doing this for the last six months and i ve been just catching on fire but thirty guys at a time in a large been doing in the berkshire so woods couple hours in new york city thirty guys there and to set up a sort of an intense weekend experience of practice in the stuff in will heighten undue trail workin and all that stuff but more importantly do it the self in our diving in yourself with in the presence of other guys which is just i've done therapy i've been in therapy i'm not a therapist but when has been very helpful like i buy for if you work with a good therapists that really is really good i couldn't many more but there's something about this these men's retreats
i totally understand sound unattractive to organise it sounds like a lot about fuckin yeah of course of course that is is your that is the big first serve response rail woods her tell me more we all i can be open in the woods we went we made at one of our advertising videos for and it starts out that a guy stands up and says yeah i heard about measures to reach it and i thought first thing i thought was this is gonna be fucking off and so get it but yeah i think we're getting further enough along where the guys are going through this are literally coming back with the most positive feedback that i could i couldn't write the shit like like changing their lives and just like literally cause it's you know back to that things were offering a place for them to accept a pie themselves that's been offline for a long time isn't big fuckin do
it's really now it's probably also big fucking deal to just separate the high for a little bit and just be outside of cell phone range and be in the woods and just take a big deal breath of fresh air and look around the wilderness and realise that this is this is reality is well in your even plugged into this civilization reality miss this city this urban environment which is entirely unnatural and his own been a real thing for the past couple hundred years we literally didn't exist for the gigantic swell of humanity that that existed before that yeah i think that it was the wrong word there really i think it does a couple deep things lights up this this this neurobiology that that of us as social animals i think it goes back to more of a trial
sense of living tooth is i all son you eat you went from being isolated lonely to heaven thirty do too honestly fucking do anything for you in a moment then i got a buddy good buddy is a return special forces operator and heat he sits in my man's given bozeman with me and really struggled with coming home and then found our group and within a month his life is back on track just kill in it just kick his ass and you know i mean there is a connection between i wouldn't say the general military but the special forces you know you read books in here about the the aspect of motherhood and how their therefore each other in this is definitely a very different venue but i think the bonn and connection that that has created out of it is and this is from from his mouth to is its he went in utter how many years several
here's and special forces living with in close connection two guys got thrown home was also isolated and they came into our group unjust had this this closeness again and adjust back just like back to back to kill him while yeah it's i mean i very aware i mean it's i've been scared to start speaking about this for years and i mean it's very to me even i look at advertising for similar man's programmes a thing like that too so turned off gas seems weird it doesn't people need resets need some sort of recent we ve talked about this before about we'd both experience those recess through psychedelic or or through these awning trips in the wilderness trips like but i think people get caught up in the momentum of their daily existence and all the requirements that daily existence and they become overwhelming
what we're talking about like w your lease that you have in your car or your mortgage that you have in your house and a credit card bill to keep coming in student loans you need to eventually get to and bites a fucking overwhelming grind and sometimes people need something that removes them entirely from it for a certain amount of time that allows you just to fresh air the not not just lira flesh air but the metaphorical fresh air of all allowing you to just separate from this to all these weird influences and weird energy and momentum them many of you the life they ve created or that's been created for you that your sword trapped in yemen i'd food so that reset thing i mean i think i want a warning is that if you start getting a reset and i mean from my own experience i needed pretty regular yeah now sought the actually the biggest goal of a visit of every man them
position i found it is too our goal is the amelia guys in man's groups because that is the same and then it happened so this last return at thirty guys show up twenty of them wanted to immediately get into a weekly group to to basically continuing regularly experience a sample it's like a hit in others i think two about men in this culture where there's not a lot of sympathy towards men that are struggling nelson like there's this thought that men are the patriarchy in word dominating the world and we're almost like sub human where response for all these issues of men with issues like oh crimea fuckin river what about women with issues what about trans people with issues what about gay people with issues what about black jesus christ like of irregular white guy with issues like your issues are bullshit we cannot but it doesn't matter you are you are you can't change the fact that your white guy so if your white guy with problems nobody gives a fuck
can't they see that had all connects the nothing i see that i don't why did i makes everybody else unhappy to talk man they don't because it it's not convenient for their narrative the narratives a year responsible for all the problems in the world even though you just dan dodi from bozeman montana doubts now i get it but it's it's so i mean that's one of the most powerful so the podcast i'm launching is a self improvement i cast for guys but instead of going to experts and saying you know what's the best morning routine that you can do designing a routine or whatever i'm on top regular guys and an hour asking them to share in no more or be than they would normally work because happens in these scenarios is that we learn from each other just a simple human fucking beings who just like you know like one i might share that he's having trouble with his son for example with his kitty does not to do it and
you know like no matter why don't care were like a bunch of other guys will see like holy shit i thought i was they want feeling you know and it is all the a you and it's back this ice patient than you think that you're well think we're fuckin special we think that were so unique in the actual if we actually took the time to connect with one another would be like while we have a lot like it will enjoy that just that is enough to drastically changed somebody's day let's go let's motive in a new to venture out because you are working for zero point zero is big production company they make a mediator and anthony bore danes show and those different shows what motivating you to step away from them and start doing this this is why i've always wanted to do and this is what i've been what cash impels you wanna help guys i just i and i know that i can
even if it's just one guy whatever it is but working out there with these aids and seeing all this it just is left me with the deepest deepest satisfaction fulfilment it faction but also a sense of purpose and then tell you what men i have to add a boy had a son last year and when he came out there is something inside he said if you don't do if you don't act what you know you can bring fuck you fuck it digress is your kid like like there is i don't know i'm i'm also you know i was born a fairly sensitive i could feel as one sensitive kid i could feel other people's pain and when i am in a working with these kids now these man i mean i don't know i want i want good for people right i want good for you get for my family and i want good for i don't know i feel connected
and i don't want to do i can't listen it's a noble purposes curious about like what i mean you you have a promising career a lucrative career with zero point zero so few to leave that has two billion really compelling sort of a pole yeah i mean that job and that career was an amazing wild ride and in some ways felt like a temporary sidebar from what i'm really meant to do you i've been in writing for a long time and here i think that the whatever this thing is i'm doing it shows me somehow or other i mean that's that's true but how long can you ignore the thing inside you that screams that you that says you have to do this
so you want to do in relation to the definition there i mean it's obviously beneficial insolvency something your compelled to do and this obviously something that you felix very fulfilling so wide nor so when you start this podcast it's out without the every man podcasting every man podcast evie are why emmy and what about checks fuck off forgot ex here you're you got oprah hotel i'm not i mean that's a good question i don't think it's why why dispelled outweigh the shit out of people well because the full one was like a lot of money or wasn't available the well it was just a practicality thing ok yeah e e r why a man was not me they are why so easy are why folks evie are why man podcast how many so you have up to now and then yeah children are doing every week like how you do it i'm going to try and probably every two weeks to start and then and is getting in this way
on itunes yet hold the maintenance or ass beautiful man was rabbit so that's awesome its awesome that it's out there its awesome people get a hold of it always loved talking about so let's do this again ever thank you dance ladies and gentlemen everyone pike s will back tomorrow with that russell sale thank you everybody for two podcast thank you to cave man coffee for fuelling us through this journey gotta caveman if you see oh dot com use the code word rogue india save ten percent off their awesome coffee and other beverages thank you also to legal zoom gotta legal zoom dot com and use the code word rogan at check out for special savings thank you to my all time favorite underwear me on these gotta be undies dot com ford slash rogan and you will save twenty percent off your first pair and thank you each in every episode to honour go to an end i t use
the code word rogan and save ten percent off any and all supplements ok that's it i will be back to me with history professor thaddeus russell who has been on the park gas twice before great guy very interesting should be a tonne no fun so until then enjoy your life again see you soon bye
Transcript generated on 2020-03-12.