Welcome to season three episode. Ten of the Jordan Be Petersen Podcast. Mikhail, appears in turn, daughter, hope you enjoy, This episode. It's called Abraham, a father of nations. If you won check out, understand myself Dar com and look at your personality. You should check it out if you haven't heard of it, you can whose code Mikhail I M Kay age a. I allay. Thank you dad for naming me after Mikhail Gorbachev, so that nobody can google, my name it's around Eight box anyway and is worth it scored ninety eight percent I'll on volatility and two percent on politeness beat that I'm not proud of either of those by the way, but it explains a lot. I really pod gas last week on the Mikhail Petersen Podcast with Doktor Jason Fung on fast benefits, if fatty I'd check it out now, two percent on politeness coming out, but seriously if you're looking into how to get healthier

And maybe you don't want to go on and I'll be flying diet or even low carb, although you should you can get some more benefits from fasting and I'd really recommended. I finished We call fast a few weeks ago when it was heavenly I have a video document in the experience on Youtube. Actually, if you'd rather see that anyway I hope you enjoy this podcast. Everyone is thinking about health these days. In addition, improving your health here and now you know. Improve your house ban, which is the number of years. You live disease. Free is your age dad I have been attempting to do this by getting an eighty treatments in our case These treatments have also resulted in improved mood and energy level. And I ve been getting an energetic buzzing feeling in a good way, the only downside, is that these treatments involve being hooked up to an ivy raid hours. We don't of the time or patients. For that a great alter, That is a supplement called basis produced by the company Elysium basis works,

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so I'm going to tell you about what happened and then I'll start the lecture. So I got up this morning and started to put my day together and then I tried to sign into my gmail account and it said that it had been disabled because I violated the terms of service with Gmail and I thought well, I didn't violate any terms of service that I know of now set up a new Youtube channel. Yesterday, called Jordan be Petersen clips, and so we made some technical changes, and so I thought maybe it had something to do with that. And I had been shut out of Google one other time years ago, so when you get shut out like that, there's little form you can fill out, and so I filled out the form- and I said that I had been shut out.

And that I didn't know why and I sent it off I realized one of my staff members called me and said that she was locked out of the Youtube account and I thought oh yeah. The Youtube account is hooked. The Gmail account. So that meant that I couldn't get access to any of my Youtube videos, they were still up an online, but I couldn't get access to them. I couldn't post last week's biblical lecture for fur example, and so there was worrisome and made me suspicious and then about two hours. Later, something like that. I got an email from Google and they said that they had reviewed the my request to be reinstated. And that I had violated Google's terms of agreement or in terms of service and Weren't, going to turn my account back on and I thought. And they didn't say why they didn't say anything I got. There is no warning whatsoever about any of this. They didn't tell me why

and they didn't say why in the email response- and so I wrote them back- and I said if they said I could. I wrote them back and I said. This might not be a good idea, basically and you might want to think about it. And then I tweeted tweeted what had happened right? I took screenshots night tweeted and I contacted a whole bunch of journalists because it turns out that I know a whole bunch of lists and so and so then what happened? then, was that I got a call from the Daily COS or in the United States. I had done an interview with them last week which isn't posted yet, and they interviewed me and with it twenty minutes posted it online, and so they have a fairly big audience, and so that was, good and then somebody phoned me from Ottawa and I did a live. Radio show about that, and that was good and then a number of other journalists contact me

I sent them the information but another one of my staff and actually myself, emailed me and he said: look you should hold off, because maybe there's still a mistake here can I thought yeah there might be. It might be just a mistake, but then why in the world I e mail, Google and they contacted me and they said they would not reinstated and they didn't provide me with any information. So I contacted the other journalists I said: well, you never know. Maybe this is just a mistake. So let's hold off and then well. I was about half an hour later, while I was trying to get into my I use this adwords account. It's look. To Google. I dont run out on my videos, but I need the Edwards account because it helps me add some little gadgets to the videos that I wouldn't otherwise be able to, and I was I was playing with- that this system came back on line. I thought Well, that's interesting and lots of people that emailed me in twittered me in some people within Google and some people elsewhere, and they were

doing whatever they were going to do to help me get all this material back up and running, and so something worked. My suspicions are that what work was the publicity now so, but me not you know one, it's very weird being in this situation because There has been a number of recent episodes where these larger companies- Facebook, Google Patron- not that it's a massive company but it's starting to become reasonably significant, have decide On rather arbitrary grounds to shut down their users and this very ominous to me, partly because we ve, we ve, turned our communications over to very large systems or very large systems. Have emerged to mediate our communication right, I mean there's lots of benefit to it's. What you d want to get too cynical about it, but we're blind with, words to the policies that regulate the the the action.

The regulatory actions of these large organizations and that's really a bad thing, and something else is even moral. Ominous really ominous, you know its highly per a that we're going to build. Political algorithms into artificial intelligence and this sort of thing will be regulated by machines that no one understands and that's it Really bad idea and that's a really likely possibility so anyways. I was all confused about this. I thought Jesus B. I flew off the handle. You know, because I was sort of with stressful man. You know because I've like a hundred and fifty thousand emails in that account, like that's a lot of emails, and it's all my correspondence for the last ten years. You know so it's an archive as well as in ongoing email system- I have a commercial mail system that I just set up three weeks ago, with like six different email address, is now to try to organise my correspondence. So I wasn't completely unable to communicate but my calendar was gone and that's a bloody disaster because, like I've got things scheduled out forever and I dont remember

They are. I can't even remember what I'm doing in a day, so listen a month, but I thought, play. I flew off the handle and I was worried that I contacted the journalist too soon and you know but anyways it all worked out. So then what happened? Well, just as I was coming to this lecture I stepped outside and there is little package outside and luckily it wasn't a bomb. There's a is a package outside nice little package. We look where- and I looked inside it nurse couple of bottles of wine in their status where's, the there little note, and so I'm going to review the little note, because it's actually pretty interesting. So so this person said that they had finally tackled the self authoring sweet. So they seem to be happy about that. But that's not so interests except peripherally. A friend on Twitter has contact with Google engineers.

She said Quote- I spoke with some friends inside Google who offered to help, and I did get contacted by quite a few people at Google who said that they had been watching my lectures and so on and were happy about what I was doing. Anyways. I spoke with some friends inside Google who offered to help, but they suggest he set up a backup plan the teams are feeling significant pressure from advocacy groups and quote: I have least for Google engineers who offered to speak up on his behalf, but they know Team dynamics and, unfortunately, especially Youtube is Es J, W cesspool. I hope this information is useful to you psychiatric kind of useful all right, so that was that was part of what happened today and so

anyways. I still don't really understand it right because I dont know why it got shut down, and I dont know. If anything I did got it turn back on, and I don't know the reasons for it and that's also rather ominous. It seems to me that when I was thinking it through and was the know, I have a fairly. What would you call it respect Youtube following a few necessarily call it respectable, fairly large Youtube following and its, seems to me that it would have been appropriate for Google if they were going to shut down my account too Tell me why I would think- and also maybe look me up, maybe especially after emailed them and then maybe not to have a be back and said. No we're not going to reinstate you Bob we're not to tell you any reasons that they didn't say, they wouldn't tell many reasons. They just didn't. Tell me any reasons,

and then it also seems very strange to me that it just all a sudden went back on after two hours and so well, so I dont know what to make of that may be. More information will come to light over the next few days. I hope that I didn't jump the gun, but its very a very peculiar set of circumstances. I thought it was kind of amusing, actually that the video that they stop me from posting today was the last biblical lecture. You wouldn't necessarily think that that would be the sort of thing that people would want to stop from being posted, but we're in very very strange times. So that was my adventure for today, and so I didn't

You know I hate speakers who apologize to the crowd before they talk to them, because you know, if you're speaking to people and they put all this effort into coming, then you shouldn't tell him what a sorry and useless creature you are before you talk to them in a one, ask further forbearance and forgiveness. It's like it's a little you're, a little late for that, but I'm still gonna do that a little bit today, because you know, I wanted to say, all day. Preparing this lecture, I mean I've prepared a lot beforehand, but that rattled me up a lot, and so I didn't prepare as much as I could have, anyways, we'll stumble forward and see how it goes. I I'm reasonably familiar with the stories now and so onward. Upward. So I'm going to reiterate this. You know I've learned something I have this idea that it would be a good idea for young people and

older people, citizens of the west, let's say to learn more about their culture and their civilization right, because it's a great. Validation, and it has taken a lot of work to put together. But I dont think that we really know been. I know a fair bit about although I wouldn't consider myself nearly as educated as a person should be, but too bad, the educated and but I tell you going through these biblical lectures, verse five earth just makes me even more aware of how unbelievably ignorant I am no and partly for two two reasons like is because I've been using this, I will have got commonplace and think I told you last week, but I wanted to reiterate, because it's important it's so interesting- the way that they ve set it up, because you can go through the biblical stories verse by verse and then for each first there's a whole

small foreign page of commentary from multiple sources, and so it will not only is the Bible Khyber Hyper, linked in the way that I discussed in the first lecture with all the verse. Referring to not all the other versus but lots of them, but its and it's got its tendrils. Out into literature in a direct commentaries on the text, but also, although all the literature that's been influenced by So it's it's. It's an unbelievably central in court text and it so interesting to read a book where every sentence has been commented on what really in volumes and then just to get a sense of that volume of material. You know how much power Bridge power. There's been put into this and and too also understand how bloody ignorant come so ignorant about this there's all this work and- and it seems that we ve left it to do hey in the dust and it's a big mistake: man, it's a big mistake, because the people who were writing these

commentaries like in a lot of its from the fourteenth and fifteenth and sixteenth century, it's kind of archaic and its and its some of its outdated and some of it you wouldn't agree with. But if you read all the commentary side, by side. You know you got a pretty good blast of wisdom coming at you and the thing about wisdom. Is it stops you from running face first into walls. You know it's not just there to two so that you can talk to people. He's about what university graduated from you know an idiot there, because the information is unbelievably useful. The things that I realise that I want to return to tonight. I've been thinking a lot about this the of the ark? You know- and I think I mentioned to you last week- that I'd figured out tat the ears the idea that nor was perfected is generations in that meant that he has set his family in order, wasn't just him, but he had set his family in order and because of that when, when the catastrophe came, like it comes to every one. He was able to

stand it because he had the support of the people who were near and dear to him and that's really important when things belong to. Lay you low, like if you're alone and in the flood comes dislike man, goodbye to you. If you ve got ten or fifteen people support, you in a tight network, you know and endure you're interrelationships with them or prestige, and you can tell them the truth, and they can tell the truth back to it's possible that you might be able to find that in a way that will preserve you win, win, win win. You know the terrible thing come knocking at your door, and so there's this. The idea of the Ark is very, very concrete. In Noah it's actually a structure that that he inhabits. You know it's a concretize, almost like a child story, and I'm not being cynical about that, because the hearse and bloody brilliant jobs, children stories. But you know it's really concretize but Abraham comes along and instead of an arc, there's a covenant. Right now-

says in the story of no other nor walked with God, and of course Abraham. It isn't clear exactly these walking with God or before God, which will get into line but you see I see this as part of the increasing cycle, psychology, isolation of the sacred ideas that were it out by archaic people. So, first of all, its concretize in the form of a ship It actually sustains you when the floods come right, it's very concrete imagery the sword, then you might see in a movie, but then with Abraham turns into a psychological covenant. In some sense, it's like a contractual agreement. Now it's a country, it's a contractual agreement before, Abraham and God, but but that doesn't really matter that we now, if you think about it, but it's that it's it's only! It's only half of what's important about that. The other half is that it's a contract- and you know

One of the things that you do with your idea, let's say, is you establish a contract with a new, also establish like a social contract with other people write that that's? What's keep society organised and so there's idea that emerges in the Abraham stories of a sacred contract and that the same function as the Ark and what it does because what happens in Abraham will see more this today is that he it, oh god, tell him to go forward into the world and we ve we talked about that last week and he does that encounters famine and the encounters tyranny and he encounters powerful people who want to take from him. What is his mean? godsends among the world, but it's not like. He has an easy right if it isn't easy at all, it's as hard as it can be, but there's is consistent emphasis in the text- and I think it's really worth attending to that? If you mean retain your contract, which, and that has that has to do with honesty and trust. In truth, and all of those things if you maintain your contract and you have a good possibility, the best possible

Possibility of making your way through the catastrophe in the chaos and I dont want to be naive about, this you know when I read young, I started to understand the idea of the hero archetype. You know the idea that the here and being as it is forests are logos, force that can stand up against chaos in catastrophe in tragedy and evil and prevail. I never did think that that meant If you did stand up and tell the truth that you would necessarily prevail right, it's not it's! Not it's not a magic trick. It's your s at that. Thank you, don't have a better option, and so and that's what's With that, I see the ideas emerging in in the Abraham Texas, like people are figuring this out. That would be progressive, revelation, that's one way of thinking about it and you can think about that religious terms, but it also think about it as humanity, consulting itself right, each individual talking to themselves, which is what we do when we, when we think of each individual indicating with every other, individual and gathering a body

of wisdom that helps people or orient themselves in. How fast conditions and it it's an incremental process, and I think that I really do believe that that speaking purely secular early? I do believe that that's what manifests itself in the biblical stories right is the dawning enlightenment of mankind, something like that as we start to to stand the principles by which we have to live in order to and ourselves properly in the world, so and I also do believe- and this is this- is the thing that's. The unspoken question is like you: don't you don't have any idea how rich in fulfilling your life be despite its tragedy and limitation. If you stop doing the things you know to be wrong: it's really grand experiment and one of the things that God was Abraham constantly, as as the story progress

every time Abraham makes the sacrifices. God says, walk with me and be perfect, something that, and so the injunction is or aim high stab this relationship with the highest thing that you can conceive of which you might have I'll? Do that because well what you gonna do establish relationship with them, mediocre thing you can conceive of- or you going say was relationship with the lowest thing you can conceive of people do that, and I would recommended. It's a really bad thing and there's a lot pain associated with that- and maybe you know, there's there's pain that and expand into a world destroying forests down that route, and there is absolutely no doubt about that. So what is there's something superstitious and foolish about attempting to establish contractual relationship. The source of all being I mean I just don't see that as a as an erroneous conception- and you know it's not

necessary, perhaps to get lost in the details we can argue forever about. God might or might not be, but we could at least say that the concept If God is an embodiment of humanity, is highest ideal right. We could at least degree on that and then you, I'd say well these that real and the first thing I would about that is there's a lot of is about the world we dont understand and the second thing would say: is it and bloody well on what you mean by real. That's for sure, and that turns out to be a very complicated question. So, ok, so we live, Abraham remember up and last time he had just gone off to fight kings and get his nephew back, which seem to be a pretty courageous act, and so that brought us or to an end, and it's interesting, I think what happens in the narrative. Is that true,

story. So Abraham is somewhere and he goes somewhere else right. That's the story of his adventures along the way and those adventures are usually the typical kind of adventure which is a rift in the structure of the story closure to a kind of chaos and novelty and then a reconstitution of the of the motive being so that's classic class. Story rake. You are somewhere you're a certain way, you're moving forward. Something happens that you don't expect it blows you into pieces, it introduces chaos right. You you face the dragon. You get the gold or maybe the bloody thing, each you in the story is over and then and then you get to where you're going, but then the question is what happens when you get to where you're going and that's really important issue, because one of the things that to people all the time in their life is that they get to where they're going and then they don't know what to do right. So, for example, you grab, from university. It's like ok story over Who are you now Who are you the next day and so so

happens is when you succeed, then there's a success crisis and the six this crisis is well. I've run this story to its end. Now, what an that's exactly what happen? and in the Abraham stories and their punctuated by a period of contemplation and sacrificed. So every time and Abraham story comes to its end, then Abraham makes another soccer Iceland communing with God, and then he figures out what to do next, and that seems that seems right What you should do when your story comes to an end, when you have a choice, do when your story comes to an end, when you have achieved what it is that you want to achieve, or perhaps when you're in terribly dire straits, but we won't talk about that at the moment when you have achieved what you need to Give the next question is or cable now, I'm that I said, nor I have that character. What what do I need to do?

next, and some of that is always will. What do I need to give up now? What do I need to let go of so I can move to the next plateau right assume. Your life is, hopefully a sequence of upward moving. What would you call them Success office accept your actually each time you climb up the mountain. You get a little higher on the mountain at something like that, so it says office with an optimistic bent and- and maybe if you push the rock up the mountain properly and let it rolled down them, and if you do that, then it's ok. Every time you roll back up, it's it's better! Abraham goes rescues. His nephew from this, these two tyrannical kings, that's very brave and he doesn't take any reward for it because, as far as he is concerned is just Tyrannical kings? That's very brave and he doesn't take any reward for it because, as far as he is concerned, is just a manifestation of the right thing and then he has another vision. After these things, That's the battle! The word of the Lord came under Avram, inefficient, saying fear. Not

Abrams, I'm their shield and I exceeding great reward and Abrams said God. What will you give me seeing I go childless and the steward of my house is this Elites year of Damascus and Abrams said behold. Him Thou hast, given no seed and low. No one born want one born in my house is mine air. The word of the Lord came to him saying this shall not been thine air, but he that she'll come forth out of their own thine own bow shall be done here and he brought him forth abroad and he said now look to Heaven and tell the stars if you're able to number them number them- and he said to him so shall die seed, be an apron believed in the Lord and counted it him for righteousness, and he said unto him, I'm Lord, that brought the out of her the chaldees to give this land to you to inherited- and he said Lord God, by so I know that I shall inherited, and then he does. This sacrifice take me whenever I have her of three years old and she goat

and a ram and a turtle doves, young, pigeon, and then God comes down and Abraham goes into a trance. That's what it appears to be in the story and has a great terror, and then God appears to him and all review this commentary again. This is from Joseph Benson and when the sun was going down, that's about the time when you wash up for the evening and he's he's he's, praying and waiting towards evening. A deep sleep fell upon Abraham, not a common sleep through weariness or carelessness, but a divine ecstasy that being wholly taken off from things sensible. He might be wholly taken up with the contemplation of things. Spiritual very strange, very, very strange series of interpretations because it does seem that what happens to Abraham that he falls into some sort of revelatory trance. And so when, as I've taken some pains to explain, we don't really understand such things in and we cannot rule out there

distance, because there's too much evidence that they do in fact occur. Perhaps it's a technology that we no longer possess. That's one possibility. Perhaps we no longer know how to access these sorts of states of consciousness. It certainly possible and low a horror of great darkness fell upon him. This was designed to strike all upon this spirit of Abraham into possession with wholly reverence wholly fear, prepares the soul for wholly joy God, humbles first and then list lifts up Yeah, well, I think that's right to like you know one of the experiences I've had in my life fairly commonly nor variety of different ways. This is especially true when I was paying a lot of attention to my dreams, which I did for about fifteen years ago, something like that now and then I would feel like I learned some things and had sort of consolidated them and then before I To sleep I think: ok, I'm ready, learn something else slake and they didn't say that without trepidation and

used because usually when you learn something you know it's not that pleasant Because he usually learn something about why you're wrong and the deeper than that you learn the more you learn about why you're wrong and there's a guess, that's associated without because then you have to let that part of you that's wrong, die and that's that's right. That's the sacrifice right, and so you have to make a sacrifice. You have to be willing to make a sacrifice before you're, going to learn something. And perhaps you're what you'll learn is in proportion. To your willingness to make a sacrifice, and I We do believe that I do believe that as well, because I also think that if you commit to something

that means that you don't do a bunch of other things right, that's the sacrifice of all those other things you commit to it. You set your sites on it. If you really commit to it and you get the sacrifice rights or to speak, then the probability that that thing will be successful vastly increases, and I think that that's also not a naive or or a naive way of thinking or a foolish way of thinking. I my experience has been it that's the case and so the dream I mean. I do think that we learn in and most of the time, if, if you have to be laid low before new revelation can make itself manifest, and I think that's also what happens to people, often in psychedelic experiences when they have a bad trip. Is they dont get through the bad part of it and maybe that's because there's so much mess in their lives. Now I'm speculating but its inform speculation. There's so much miss in their lives that the altered state of consciousness makes manner that it's like a little trip through hell and but the mess

so complete and comprehensive and all pervading that there's no way they can get through it now if they could get through it and started to sort those things out, then you know there would be. Perhaps what would you call it compensatory positive revelation at the end. But the first thing is: if you want learn. Something is that you're going to encounter well, you have to figure out what's wrong before you, you can figure out what damn you need next to guide yourself and that's no laughing matter right, and so I think that that's what this that's. What this refers to. I think that's the sort of psychological experienced that refers to. I also think we built this a little bit into this into the future authoring program. You know, I read this really cool paper once reviewed by this Jeffrey, Gray, Jeffrey Gray, wrote a book called the neural psychology of anxiety man, and that is a great book. It is impossible to read. It took me right

it took me like six months to read it and the reason is that he reviewed about three thousand papers and they're all neurological papers and heavy psychological slife biological papers? He actually read them all. And he understood them any synthesized them, and then he wrote this book about the synthesis and so these very, very careful with this terminology and so to read the book you have to understand brain anatomy and you have to understand nerve, Neural pharmacology and you have and understood animal behavior the whole literature on out behavior Knothole, whopping dose of humans, college and cybernetic, since, like it's a vicious book but You really learn something when you read it. If you go through a bit by bit like and it it's it's its had an overwhelming influence on psychology, even among People who have read it, which is most have people who cited by the way and so, but he said, Did he outlined this real cool study? Maybe it was a sequences

it is about how to motivate rats in own rats or a lot like us. You know positive and negative ways and Bio chemically in and so pharmacological, there very very similar and they are very complex social environments, and you know that of hierarchies and they play and they laughed Jack pangs of yeah. Thanks have found out that roots laugh. If you tell them, you can tackle them with like the end of a pencil eraser, but can't hear them laughing because they laugh ultrasonic me like that You have to record it and in slow it down. Then you can hear them giggling away when you take on them. So so, which is you don't you think spent fifty thousand dollars on a study demonstrated rats, laugh and you think well, wait a second wait. A second that's a major league study and Disease outlined, alluded circuit, that's it waste, Orkut and Yok banks have discovered the play, circuited mammal, That's a bloody big deal. You know if you get that by like rubbing.

That's what the pencil eraser what's good for you, so anyways, so good He talked a lot about how to motivate a rat and evil. You might have heard about of Skinner Ito. He used food pellets to motivate his rats, but what you don't know about Skinner is that those rats were starved to three quarters of their normal body weight. So they would it worked for food. So skinners rats we're going over simplified, but you can get rats to work for food. They don't have to not hungry, you can get them to work for food and will do all sorts of things are pressed leavers and and ill open are open doors and no solve problems, and you know they'll do all sorts. Thanks and one of the things you can do to kind of measure, how much the road is motivated. Let's say you: ve brought him through a maze and he knows there's some food at the end of the maize. You can tiles, sprang to his tail and see how hard he pulls when you open the door to the maze of that, because that's how much rap work throughout is willing to do so. We can measure that

can see how fast skaters down the maize- and you can get an answer- about the rats, motivation and so you might say well how motive, it is a hungry rat and the answer would be depends in Hungary is but there's another answer it so depends on what chasing him. When he's going after the food if you have a rat- and you you have food over here and you walked in some cat. Odor rats, hate cat odor and in eight. They never have to see or smell account to be absolutely petrified by cat odor, and so, if you walked in some cat order and then open the door that rattling zoom too, that food a lot faster than it will, if it's just hungry, so running away from something that it doesn't want towards that's germane to this idea of terror is theirs, and is this idea in the old testament to fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Your main to this idea of terror is theirs, and is this idea in the old testament to fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and so pretty harsh idea

But but there's something really useful about it. Because one of the things you see with people all the time is that their maybe they're trying to stumble forward towards their ideal as poorly defined as it might be and they're afraid right, they're afraid about what they might encounter and not stops them, because fear does stop people, it freezes. You like a prey animal and so people move ahead, but then they get afraid and then they start moving ahead and so on that not so good, because negative emotion is a really powerful motivate. So, where more motivated by negative emotion than positive, emotion, quantitatively, speak quantitative, quantitatively speak! You can measure that. I think, because we can only be so happy, but we can really be suffering and yet you know so we have to pay more attention to the negative and that's bad, because the negative can stop you and then my clinical practice. Nor am I often talk to people who are trying to make a difficult life decision in and they there are weighing up the costs and the better

of making life decisions. You know, and one of the things always talk to them about is wait a second that's an complete analysis. You have two way out the benefits and the costs of doing this, and you have two way out the costs and benefits of not doing not doing it, and that's not the same as the zero that you assume that you're, starting with right because cannot make a decision also has a cost and sometimes the cost of not making a decision is far worse than the cost of making a decision even the decision is risky, and so one of the thing you can derive from that, and this is very useful. I think is that this is also, I think, quite so useful to contemplate your mortality, Speakers you're screwed, no matter what you do, you know It actually freeze you is that you, you have path, aid that has catastrophes path, be that has catastrophes and you don't get to have the new catastrophe path, but you get to pick which one and that's really something, because if you know that there is terrible

ask associated with everything that you do and don't do. Then you can afford to take some risks because you're not This is all within the Ark metaphor, I'm still me in the case that, despite the fact that your life is essentially catastrophic, you can you make a covenant with the highest ideal, and that will take you through it. The best way possible and I'm still making that case so. So then you think, ok! Well, I'm trying to make this decision. I'm gonna go, try to do something difficult and isn't that terrifying, and then you think they are but wait a minute. What's wrong terrifying is not doing it and then you think about the cost of not doing it the future authoring programme. We have people, do this little meditated. Exercise, which is ok, just think about your sufficiency is by Europe, definition right, the way that you don't do, You know you should do about the things that you do, that you. Couldn't do that you know you shouldn't do beyond a shadow of a doubt right, there's some things like that and that that's bad habits and

poor aim and all of the resentment and hatred and aggression and unresolved conflicts, and all those things that are demanding you and warping you and then think. Ok, those things get up man that gets upperhand and they take you. There possible place. You could go in the next three to five years. What exactly. Does that look like, and so schedule that out, you think, hey, I don't want to go there and so the next time that temptation comes up. Think what would be better for me. If I didn't succumb to this temptation, is like that's kind of weaker you'd. Look, little better if you didn't eat like a cheesecake a day or something like that, you know. That's, that's some! but it's not the same as I'm going to have. Diabetes and lose my damn laying in five years, if I don't get my eating under control, the its motivating. And so then the temptation comes along and you think how about no seriously, how no not just because of a higher.

Good would be obtained if I avoided it, but because of a terrible catastrophe would be averted if I didn't, and so so you want to get your fear behind you right, get it behind you words pushing you forward instead of in front of your word, stopping you and you get your fear behind you pushing you're for you forward by actually thinking through the consequences of not put your life together and the least of those is that you wasted and suffer right, because you can suffer anyways man. So you were stood an suffer. That's a bad deal because Maybe if you're going to suffer, you could at least do something noble and glorious and upright and powerful an honourable and admirable and helpful in and difficult. In all that's so much better, and maybe that's good enough, so that ok, you know little suffering its. Sickly worth it at least, did some forward. You know at least it's a way forward.

And he said unto Avram know of a surety that I see it shall be a stranger in the land that is not theirs and shells those people on the afflict them for four hundred there's. The honeys hedging is best here. A lot rightly says day: room we'll, go out into the world, and then he confronts us with a famine and confront them with a tyranny and with powerful people. He wants to take as well and then he loses his nephew and who has a fight with many go fight, a war and now here Oh he's reconstituting this car, God says: yeah you're gonna have A nation is going to come from you but they're gonna, be slaves to tyrants, for, like four hundred years is like not a great salesman exactly. But but the thing about it is that the thing that I, like It is that its realistic, you know- and you gotta think too. Who knows why it is that the boy bill exists or why people wrote it, but you know if they are going to sell you something

I don't know if this is the way to do it. You know, because unless you're a salesman whose sophisticated beyond belief, because you'd think that if it was just a matter of controlling the masses, let's say which is one say- marxist interpretation of religion or or providing people with a primitive defined. Against death anxiety, which is essentially the Friday and interpretation that you'd kind of make the deals that God, with Abraham a little more on the positive impact. Side instead of making them a realistic offer constantly like they aren't that that's also that that that's part of the reason. I think it is reasonable to treat the Bible has literature it's more than literature something other than literature, but you can treated as literature. I think the reason that you can treated as literatures, because the characters are all complex, including the character of of God himself, is complex, sophisticated. It's not one sided it's it's paradoxical, an incomprehensible at times, but I think good literature is like that because it all true art hear something.

True, this is something I learn from. You is so small He was so smart, so that you inhabit. The land that you know conceptually and ethically and then imagine outside of that, there's that massive Spain some things that you don't know anything outside of that there's the space of things that no one knows right. So it's the known. Retorted, surrounded by the unknown. That's the canonical archetype landscape and the unknown manifests itself too when that's where new knowledge comes from. But the question is: how is that knowledge? Generally? against it, doesnt just leap from, completely unknown to completely articulated in one move that isn't how it happens. It has to pass through stages of analysis before it becomes articular bull and the first stage of analysis. As far as I can tell us that you acted out of something really surprises, you the first way that you react to it. You're categories actually

What did you like this that that's your first category? It's not conceptual at all, it's embodied and then maybe you start to like you're at home at night. And you know something startle senior freeze and then it's done. Can then your imagination populate the darkness, with whatever might be making the noise and that's the sequence. It's like embodied response. Imagine it of representation exploration articulation. That's all formation. Moves from the unknown to the known and artists are the people who stand on that image, mystic Frontier and they and they put themselves out into the unknown and they and they may take a piece of it and they and they France into some myths, logical image and they don't what they're doing exactly because their guided by their intuition, if the real artists, otherwise to just propagandists, they have to be contending with something that we all understand and what they do they make it more understandable. You no one and people gaze at those artworks or this or they listen to the stories and then they start to be

informed by them, but they dont know how or why I was at the modern art, museum, Museum of ART and in New York. I'm afraid I don't remember which one fortunately, but I was in this amazing room. You know it had all these priceless paintings from now, from the late renaissance hanging in it. You know each painting worth who knows a billion dollars, maybe they're priceless painting. So the room was it's a shrine- and it was full of people from all over the world who are looking at these paintings what the hell are. These people doing come into this room. Looking at these paintings, look what what are you up to? One of them was a painting of, some show of Mary right brilliantly, host and there was always people looking at it. I thought what are they doing What that means require they looking at that painting. Why is it in this room? Why does it cost a billion dollars why's that painting worth so much an answer that well. We don't really know they did happen. There are their sacred objects. In some sense, we gazed at them

Ignorance and wonder, and the the unknown shines through the that's and role articulated form and so well, that's the role of all. And that's the ruin of artists and all real artists, real artists are contending with the unknown right in their possessed by they have a personality trade, openness, makes them do that they can't even help it and I've had lots of creative people in my clinical practice, and I can tell you the worst thing for creative people is to not be creative because they just die it because it's it's it's it's like, maybe you're a tree with a few me. You're branches, you know, that's your personality, so if your extroverted man, you can't be cut off from people because you just whither and if you're agreeable. You have to be an intimate relationship or you die. You know if your conscience this man and you and your unemployed, you're, just gonna eat yourself up because you,

to have a duty, and you have to carry a load because just can't stand it. Otherwise, an open people have to be creative, to be because otherwise they die, they don't have any vitality, and so there cursed with the necessity of putting a foot out into the unknown and making sense of it, and then there also Kirsten necessity, trying to make a living while they're doing that which they can't, because you can't so must impossible. Demonetized creative, creative action, as many of you who are creative, will no doubt find out. It's very, very frustrating. It's not that creative action is work without value right because the creative people are entrepreneurs in the creative people, revitalize cities and the creative people make things. Never sent and beautiful. You think about. What's happened in Europe over the last thousand. Here say two thousand years. This amazing unbelievable collaboration to make things So beautiful France, Spain, jawdropping when you walk into them. If you think about their economic

Are you with that? Right? I mean, I think it's it's either France or Spain. That's the most visited country in the world. It's one of those two I think there's more tourist in France than there are people, most of the time and part of the reason for that, is it's just so damn beautiful you just can't stand it and you think, what's the economic value of that its absolute. Incalculable and what's interesting to is, that build their beauty in farther away you get from it in time. The more valuable it becomes right instead of decaying it has exactly the opposite effect, its value, magnifies and one of the things that I deeply ashamed of as a Canadian. Is that our assent, beauty is so under developed. Were so remedies praise not even primitive. That's the wrong word cause. You know what it is. It's it's its second rate, its second rate at least its terror, to because people are afraid of beauty, but the idea that art is the concern

It is really have a problem with this in particular, because conservative people tend dont, be that creative and it it's a mistake, MR by temperament. It it's a mystery to me because they should be concerned with economic development and beauty, is so unbelievably crucial to economic development and just yells out at you. You know so anyway. So that's what artists are doing in so one of the things I would say is by a damn piece of art. You know find one that really speaks to you and by a piece of art because You invite that into your life and its look out. If you do it, if it's a real piece of art. Does you also get you know a little introduction to the artist and then that'll seep into your life, and that will change things like mad, but it's really its unbelievably worth it because it open your eyes to the domain the transcendent. That's the right way of thinking about a real piece of art is window into the transcendent. That's what it is and you that in your life, because your finite and limited and bounded, right by your ignorance and your lack of knowing and unless you can make a connection to

transcendent. Then you don't have the strength to prevail and that's part of the covenant. That's part of the covenant with God and you can see that because you look at these men never sent cathedrals that our civilization built over the centuries in some of those there's still. Building the sand Greta familiar in in India, Barcelona right and it's an amazing billing. I think it's going to take them like three hundred years to build that people in the middle ages. They start building a cathedral Nathan done this in three hundred years imagine the vision that it took to invest in something like that. We look at quarterly reports, can't think three hundred years into the future to build something of kind of remarkable remarkable what those cathedrals are so there are perfect their trees first right through a forest where the gothic cathedral there, therefore, and the sun is shining through the branches. That's the in glass and there the purpose balance of light and structure because their rip

something something about the proper structure of being, which is something like a proper balance between light in structure and and they represent like sacred tragedy of mankind, that's why they're, in the shape of across their open sky, that's where they have a dome and their full of gold, so that glitters, that's like the city of God, you, no one and you You can see that that integrity to to our key Sure is the idea that beauty is one pathway towards God and its an insane, if you can't find another pathway, then why don't you use beauty? I share most of you do that with music because me It is the one thing that modern people can't be cynical about. Thank God for that. Being fascinated by music because of that at its its meaning to people right. Even nihilistic, punk rockers are so. Damn engaged with their music, that they can hardly stand it you can. Go and say. Look you know you're.

The transcendent religious experience and they'll just tell you too far off because got that what punk rock himself to do, but but still what's happening. You know I mean it's still what's happening, so ok, so. Ok, so I got into all that because I was talking about about the bible- is literature you no one, and trying to and trying to lay out, because we need in our culture to justify the arts and you have to. I don't want to do that by talking about high culture, talk about something abstract and evanescent. That's the wrong way to go about it. This is vital. You know, like The things that really interesting about the University of Toronto is that the new ones the campus, where we are, is beautiful,

medieval cathedral. Another site is God awful Factory and you know and and that The thing is the attitude towards knowledge has parallel that architectural transformation? You know at one point The humanities. Let's say we're a sacred endeavour in and so was the art of being educated in the university and that's turned into like mass actors in that's reflected in the architecture? This isn't accidental. None of this happened. None of this house is by random chance. You know it's not like theirs spirits, sea or anything because the reason, but that doesn't that these things aren't tangled together in the loss of beauty in the universities, is a catastrophe, because without that beauty. There is no call to hire being in all use. This is, also why I mentioned to people that they should clean up. Their rooms had become quite

the internet, mean, but I'm really serious about it, cause it's really hard to do that and I've been cleaning up my room by the way for about four months now, because my life was thrown into such a catastrophe. And also we were renovating, and so, but it isn't just that you clean it up. You also make it beautiful and view it's really hard to make something beautiful and real. Worthwhile in. What's really cool was, if you learn to make something beautiful, even one thing, if you can just make one thing in your life beautiful than you- doubtless the relationship with beauty, and then you can start expand that relationship with beauty out into the world like into other elements of your life, and that is so worthwhile, is just incredible, were easily worthwhile and that's an invite patient, the divine you know you have to be daring. To do that. People are terrified of people are terrified of color. They paint their walls base. Terrified of art. They buy some mass produce thing because they don't want anybody laughing at them for their lack of taste and they would get laughed. Because they have no taste, but you have

Well, it's right, because what do you know right to develop it, and so you going to stumble along and make mistakes to begin with and you're gonna show yourself if you buy an who. I think this is pretty, and you know somebody comes over those what's up with you it's kind of hard on you self esteem, but but it's start. Your stumbling towards the right, you're stumbling towards the kingdom of that's what you're stumbling towards when you try to make an aesthetic decision and to put something in your life- that's beautiful and its unbelievably worthwhile to do that, and we have to steer clear of the fraud in the car, artists and all of that and art is full of that, of course, because it's difficult to do so which, between the real thing in the fraud but but its unbelievably worthwhile and so back to literature, and I'm telling you partly because I've been thinking a lot about the humanities and the arts and practically speaking, because I know that artistic types are also entrepreneurial type, so the same personality types, and so it's very much worth while to make an economic and practice

case for this sort of thing. You study, literature and the humanity so that you can familiarize yourself with the wisdom of our civilization, and you should do that, because people have been working on this thing for a long time and its rich b comparison, so why would you do that and you teach yourself too to read and you teach yourself to speak and you teach yourself to think and you teach yourself to communicate I can tell you if you can read and think and communicate You are absolutely one hundred percent unstoppable. That's another thing that so interesting about humanity's education, the tat the core, the university. It's like, there's nothing economically valuable than teaching people how to articulate themselves and communicate because they can identify problems they can. Formulate solutions they can negotiate to consensus that we can negotiate on their own behalf on behalf of others, it's like There is absolutely no downside to it, except that there's response

nobody that goes along with it, but it doesn't matter because there is no escape from responsibility. Can either take it voluntarily or you can take it involuntarily, those your options, but there aren't any other options and so We need to understand the role of art and literature and and stop thinking There is an option. It's not an option is not an option. What does it said, man does not live by bread alone, that's actually right, we live beauty! We live by literature we live by art and litter, not metaphorically. We cannot Without it, because life is two days, when and and tragic in the since of the so and ourselves, we have to be sharp so that we can survive properly, Orient the world properly and not destroy things, including ourselves, and so. And so back to the Bible, which I do think is a reasonable, its reasonably construed as a piece of literature, because its deep because the people who wrote it had at least one foot in the unknowable and they're trying to communicate what they

spirits in the unknowable to make it known, and that's partly what we're turn do in the series and what you're trying to do while you're listening and all of that and so good for that. And also that nation whom they shall serve. I will judge and afterward. They all come out with great substance, though, be a period of tyranny. You know, there's a psychological truth to that too. One of the things I learned from reading nature You can learn a lot from meeting nature. That's for sure he he talked about the catholic church and no natures, often construed as a great critic, Christianity and any certainly was, but he was no casual critic. In fact, I think he was the sort of critic that you'd like to have as a friend, because he was the sort of critic. That said, well, here's rate things you ve done and then you could keep do, but here's a bunch of really new things that you did, that you really should stop doing, and he talked about the Catholic Church and he said what the Catholic,

search a done to the european mind in particular was discipline it so that over a of one thousand years, one thousand three hundred years, one thousand four hundred years there was this rule that there was a conceptual structure within which you had to interpret everything. And what they did was turned. The european educated you european mind into a systematizing cognitive entity and that one That's systematizing cognitive entity had been established. Then it could free itself from those underlying disciplinary structures and go off and do such things as produced the scientific revolution, for example, which required a credible, systematic think and so nature had this really interesting idea about freedom and he believed that slavery was an intermediaries between the undeveloped individual and the free individual that you had to you. Do submit yourself to some intense disciplinary process for some people If time in your life before you could develop any true freedom, and so you think maybe one of them

play the piano. It's like that's not gonna, be any fun for a really long peace if time, right, because you're really bad at it and there's a million things. You have two memorizing. You have to stumble around like a like it Sure and the same thing happens when kids learn how to read, and some of them never get past that point they never get to the point where they can enjoy reading. But in order to put yourself together, you have to put self in a vice and allow yourself to be considered didn't mangled, even by the the thing that in slaves you but the goal, be that, as a consequence, of submitting to the discipline that you become disciplined and then once you become discipline, you can emerge from the disciplinary structure as someone who is free and not something that's very much we're thinking about as well. So that's illustrated conceptually in this in this piece of literature,

say, because what what the psychological meaning of what God tells Abraham is that all people all people are subject not equally. Obviously all people are subject to the tyranny that precedes freedom and that That ideas is repeated over and over in the old testament. It comes out most particularly in the story of Moses Right, because course that's the story of movement from tyranny. Where do you go from a tyranny? It's an absolute catastrophe go from material into the desert. You know where you starve its harsh. That's what happens in the in the story of exodus and so that so interesting to, because what it means is that sometimes if you're going to move up hail. The first thing that happens is you, down hill a lot, and so, if you escaped from the straits that bind you now, you don't get it foreign and go up people to move forward and go down and that's another reason. This is also something that you talked about a lot is that no one there Two enlightenment, you encounter all the thing:

that you don't want to encounter first, like all the weaknesses of yourself the realisation of the tyranny of the world in the catastrophe of nature and all of that, and so you step out of your in capsule sure you're, ignorant encapsulation and its immediate plummet to something: that's a desert. Let's say where everything is chaos. I can wear your wandering around without direction a real catastrophe. So it's ok. One of the things you might ask yourself is that if enlightenment is possible and why aren't people in light because, if it was just a matter of going from a good place to a better place, it's like well man. Let's just get added, it's not it's! No problem right. Why would we ever stop doing that, but at sea not to be that it's that you're here and that's not good and its unstable and new step out of it. It's like down down to where you dont want to be, and you have to contain Without and then maybe you can start your struggle upward and so we, how God, is telling Abraham this and he's also telling him that it's ok. It's rough, though

and now you know shall go to my father's. In peace, Thou shalt be buried in the good old age, but in the fourth generation they shall come hither again. That's the Israelites descendants of Abraham for the iniquity of the Amorrhites has not yet God is going to leave the tyrants alone until they ve manifested their full tyranny. For reasons that we do not fully understand. And it came to pass that when the sun went down was dark. Behold, a smoking furnace in a burning lamp tat passed between the pieces, all else Barnes said the oven of smoking. Lamp of flame symbolise the smoke of destruction which we ve already talked about this catastrophe of the initial stages in the light of salvation their passing through the pieces of the victims and probably consuming them, is an accepted Tucker face other ratified of the covenant on the part of God, as the dividing in presenting them. We're on the part of April. In the same day, the Lord made a covenant with Avram, saying unto thyself

given this land from the river of Egypt unto the Great river Euphrates. And sir, I wife Wayfarer no children and she had handmade an egyptian whose name was Hager. So there's a big catastrophe for Abraham, especially in those times and perhaps now is much needed, although perhaps people aren't is conscious of it as they once were mean four Abraham without a biological son, there was no. There is no. There is vision forward into the future. No one meal we don't really know what sort of time spent over which these archaic people fought, but the media People where he said could think three hundred years into the future, without batting an eye and these people who were who are concerned about their sentence were obviously thinking about existence in a way that wasn't just focused on their immediate existence. Right they were thinking about

children in their grandchildren, maybe they're great grandchildren made the whole society that that stemmed out from them, and that's that smart, you know one of them I learned from p. O J, at least in part, was that his idea of the will state which he thought about as partly part of the biological basis of the idea of moral progress it. Something like he was very, very smart Puget and we said that the the proper equal, it'd state is one where national the family, you got five people in it and you're doing, what you want and you in your family? What's good for you, doing it in such a way, so that the other four members of your family agree with you do and that it also facilitates them doing what they want and what they should be doing, and so it's a really tricky arrangement, because it isn't just for you it's for you in a way that for them- and you can also see that that would be something that would be a multiplier right, because if you have ever when working

voluntarily towards the same common goal. Then you get a multiplying effect of that, and then you might think. While it's not just you and your family, it's you and your family today and next week and next month and next year and ten years from now, so you have take the time span into account. Then it should be you and your family in a way that works well in society, and then it should well now and next week and next year and into the future, should be unreadable right, that's like stay inability at something like the idea of sustainability, and not that, I would say that's a reasonable way of conceptualizing the holy city. It's something like that. You know if you're trying to make a concrete, like how should you live your life? Well, Let's say you live your life in a manner that justifies its limitation and tragedy. That's a good start, but then what say that it does that in a way that also reduces the limitations and suffering of the people that you interact with and now and into the future,

maybe there's a way to do that, I mean good negotiation. Does that right cause if your negotiating with someone like your wife, for example, what you want is for her. Do you agree with the negotiation and one of the thing that Pinochet said, which I think was brilliant brilliant. He said if you take taken equilibrating system, a family, let's say: basically liberated system. So that would be one where let's say the father is a tyrant and everyone is operating under his whip and you put them in a head to head competition. Equally braided system out completely disagree elaborated system because the enforcement cost as such it will slow the system down. You know because you get distances from the people inside the System the work in the system will be working at counter purposes to itself plus there's enforcement cos, and so a tyranny cannot be too collaborated system, and I was really excited to counter that idea, because when I encountered it, I was just trying to figure out if there was some quantitative difference between

the system say of the Soviet Union and Maoist China and the sister of the west. Apart from just you know, the world interpretation as the post. Modern nihilists might have it. If there is something fundamental at stake in the terror Cold WAR, that we thought it was just a matter of opinion the Algerian take was that well, roughly speaking, is that the way wasn't equilibrating system, not perfectly equilibrating, but reasonably acquittal braided in that people were essentially even if they were slaves to some degree. Or at least voluntary slaves instead of involuntary slaves and that that was better. The system was actually technically better. And not just as a matter of interpretation. So that's enough thing to know, and I think it's a really really solid really really solid idea I haven't been able to children, put crowbar under that idea and lifted up. I think it's a good one. So now, sir, I Abrams why there are no children, so ok back to children must have one of what one of the things that were thinking about with regard

reading these old story because we're so not we're very arrogant, modern people. If we look at the old stories, and we thank her transcended all that superstition. It's like don't be so bloody sure about that these people weren't stupid and so there's third, there are ways that they viewed the world that we don't have any more, and one of them seems to be this concern for descendants, because that just isn't part of our we have thinking, we are very short term way of thinking. Maybe it's it's not even one lifetime long, certainly not multiple lifetimes law and it is clear to me at all. That's for the best, and you know the the constant complaint, the environmentalists generate, some of which is justified in some of which is just anti capitalist, anti patriarchal nonsense that should be cleared out of that entire conversation is that we need to take a longer view and consider more things in our purview. We're not when we act like that fair enough. Like do we really want an ocean that has nothing in it, but jellyfish, because that's what what we're doing, and why

it very very rapidly and the down on that are very clear, and so you don't. We lift up your eyes, and you make a connection with something that's transcendent than that bring more of the world within your purview in and maybe that's concern for the endless number of descendants that you might have might think too. Well, you know if you're a successful person, if you have it As for family. God only knows how many people it will be. The father of right is complete the cause is nexus right. All sorts of things have come together in the cosmos to produce you then all thing sorts of things manifest themselves from you. You have no idea what you're potential the potential consequence of your actions might be as the cal across time. Right. You have no idea and so Abraham at least is concerned with these sorts of things and God seems to be concerned to because he paused MRS Abraham, that if he maintains the covenant that, most important things that he needs will come to him.

Nobody serious about their so sir. I talked Abrams she's, not very happy about the fact that she can't have children she says behold now the Lord hath restrained me from bearing I pray tee go in unto my made. It may be that I obtained by her and Abraham hearken to the voice of survival? well, that's of very trivial thing. I wouldn't think I don't imagine that that Sarah was sir. I was very happy about turning her me. Over to her husband and potentially being usurped in the whole child, bearing on in the whole child there process not in the least, but it also it's also. Major sacrifice on surprise part. There is no doubt about that. Of course, it's very difficult for us to talk about the ethics of the fact that Hager was more or less involuntary participant in this, but that was the times absolutely the case and, of course, slavery and indentured servitude is the way of mankind accepted

very, very, very, very limited circumstances. Karl, you had something to say about that, to which I really liked. He said that part reason that modern people have not the only reason there's the industrial revolution, obviously, but, part of the reason that modern people have been able to escape from the catastrophe of tyranny and slavery is because we ve to make ourselves our own slaves rights state of owning a slave. You yourself in a sense, and so you trot yourself off to work and explain yourself so that you can stay alive. I've, and maybe it's not something that you want to do, but you ve taken on the role of sleep in some sense, in relationship to your own survival, instead of forcing someone else to do it, which is also something, I think that's very noble about the west- is that we,

willing to enslave ourselves as individuals and we're not we're not doing that other people now we're doing it to some degree. Obviously because the societies imperfect, but that's something that's very much worth thinking about so, and Abraham hearken to the voice of sir. I am sir. I Abrams wife took Hager her made the Egyptian after Avram, had dwelt ten years in the land of cannon and gave her to her husband, Abraham to be his wife. That's the other thing that in so interesting about doing this, one of the other things about doing this biblical series and one of the things that so cool about Google, despite the fact that they cut off my account, you can find any piece of art that ever existed. On Google, and so that great. So you know what I'm trying to illustrate these he's lectures. I type in Abraham, Renaissance and like a get two hundred renaissance paintings, it's so great, and then I can look at them in one of the other things. That's so

workable is that all of these, the major themes of these stories have been illustrated by people of spectacular, my mind, mind expanding talent. You know there's just this endless array of well look at I mean that's an amazing painting and saw and theirs and the end of this there's theirs, dozens of paintings on this theme is just another indication of how obsessed people. You know this was the only book that existed for years. And people are absolutely obsessed by it. All these amazing things from it, were in danger of losing that an that's a big mistake, because its magnificent a little humility would go a long way towards restoring it. And he went in turn unto Hagar and she conceived.

And when she saw that she had conceived her mistress was despised in her eyes, so Hagar was successful and that was a hallmark of feminine success now and certainly then and so she started to Lord it over Sir, I would seemed a little bit on the ungrateful side. I would say, because Sir I made a big sacrificed to allow Hagar to become Abrams, wife, and so a little bit of gratitude would have been an order. I suppose That's how the story goes and, sir, I said, unto Abraham my wrongly upon v, if given my made into thy bosom and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes. The Lord judge between you and I. And Abraham said unto Sir. I behold I made is in thine due to her as it pleases you and when Sir dealt hardly with her Hagar fled from face the angel of the Lord founder by a fountain of water in the wilderness by the fountain in the way too sure and he's

Hagar survives made whims chemist, though, and whither look I'll go and she said I flee from the face of my mistress ripe and the angel. The Lord said returned to my mistress and submit under her hands and the angel said. I will multiply yours it exceedingly and it shall not be numbered from multitude and the angel said behold: thou ART with China now show those shall a sound and show shall call his name. Ishmael Ishmael means God here is by the way. Because the Lord has heard thy affliction and he'll be a wild man. His hand will be against every man in every man turned against him and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brothers. Can she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her thou God sees me for she said. Have I also hear looked after him that sees me wherefore the wall. Well was called Beer La Roy, and that means the way sees me and lives. It's an interesting interlude because you know Abraham, God is establish

this covenant with Abraham and obviously going wrong in the household in a really serious way, like a really serious way because well he's now, a child by another woman and that the two women Getting along in one is beating the other because of her insubordination and and contempt, and so cheese, desperate, she runs out into the desert where she's probably going to die, and God comes. And says anyways to two to two Hagar that Her son shell as well, be the father of nations, and so that's partly a reflection back on Power of Abrahams Covenant right, even though, even though things in terribly wrong locally. Let's say the fact that aim has made this overarching agreement with God means that all of these catastrophes are taking place within a bounded space within the arc. We could say that's one way of looking about it and I do think I do think that that's right, because it seems to me that

if everything falls apart around you, this is just a couple of things, I want you gonna, want someone standing beside you! That's for sure that you can trust you. You want your family around you and you want, want them to have your back and you're. Gonna want to know that you didn't do some goddamn stupid thing to bring held down on yourself and if you're parking any of those without crisis. Comes There is a high probability, will flat new and you won't be able to get up. You know it does to me. You can ask yourself this question win he's collapse around you how much Utility is knowledge of your own moral virtue? It's bad enough to be It is bad to be laid load but to be laid low and to know that you were the fault, you are at fault for it, and worse the things that you did, that you knew you did that were wrong, brought you there, then I think you you have to stand on in that situation, and that's also the circumstances under which I think you're more more likely.

At least to be abandoned by people around. You saw given that you know that the catastrophe is coming right, that the tragedy of life will strike you. The question is: what how do you fortify yourself against that? Obviously, to some degree you do that by being materially sensible and these old people and in the test in the old testament, these ancient people they weren't, lie to the utility of having a good cause, and some animals. You know that that's that's an integral part of their life to take care of themselves physically but there are also wise enough to know that there is an element of moral this? What would you call it? there is a necessity for moral integration that defends You against the catastrophe of existence. Even more, Actively than anything material, and even more than this the ability of the material things is more dependent on the integrity of your spirit than the integrity of your spirit is dependent on the material things, and I

Think the evidence for that is actually quite clear. I read it wrote rhetoric interesting book awhile back called the wealth and poverty of nations that was written by a Harvard emeritus professor of history and one of the things that he claimed I liked it. I thought it was very smart, was that, only through natural resources. Interpersonal trust, if you can set up a society where people trust each other than it will instantly become rich and use the example of Japan, which is a very conscientious society and very rich society, but the Japanese have no natural resources right, none to speak of the rich. And then you have countries like these soviet Russia and in much of South America, where there's just natural resources that you know they're just like Venezuela, just more natural resources than you know what to do with and the places absolute catastrophes, absolutely test.

These of cynicism and corruption, and so he attempted to document the relationship between default, interpersonal trust among citizens within countries and their productivity in their their gdp in their their standard of living and found a very, very tight relationship, and- and I a lot- and I ve got a story about that quickly. That I think, is very interesting. I'll tell you to stories, one sort of generic I'll. Tell you personal first so one day, I let my card of one of my graduate students and he took it the Montreal, this old Cadillac and I got it was a really bad rainstorm in Montreal and he was in one of the high ways that are like set into the grid and was like six inches water and he was turning a corner hit them x and scattered on the water and smacked it into the wall and on the corner of the of the bumper. And so then he brought it back and he was very apologetic about it and and steam was matched Shane. Tell you that, because man might hear this negative,

in the mid for doing this is twenty years ago. You know he's a professor at the Anterior Institute of Technology. I think now in quite a successful one but anyways he brought the car back and I went got it evaluated for damages. It was like seventeen hundred dollars or something to repair it and or maybe more, but almost as much as the car was worth. I thought. Well, I'm not gonna do that. So. I went online and I typed in the park, and if you do that, you can get people too you doing sending you use part from all over North America, so that's kind of cool, so there's always junk dealers have got together and they have this. No network of communications you put in the car part. They send you a bed, and so this guy said I will send you the bumper assembly, which is the whole bumper and the lights for like two hundred fifty bucks, you, ok, You could do that that be good, so that

said. Yes, and then he called me up about half an hour later, this guy from way down south, had a really deep sort of Mississippi accident. He said wait. A SEC was that for the bumper or the bumper assembly, and I said what was for the bumper assembly, he said. Oh, I thought it was for the number but that's, ok, all send it to you anyways. I thought more, that's pretty good said. Well, thank you and then I hung up and then half an hour later, he called me up again we said? Look I just went out looked at that bumper assembly and there's a plastic bring peace on the side, and it has a scratch in it, and I thought I'd better. Tell you that just in case you didn't want it and I thought wow, that's so amazing. It's like there's a mere a man so like this guy he's somewhere in Mississippi. I'm never going to see him again ever never gonna have any contact with him. He made it. Deal right because the part was worth more than he decided to sell it to me for buddy stuck with this And then he went over and above the call of duty said behold. This part that I'm selling you'd do you

before we less than its worth is damaged. So I thought a better tell you. It's like me You got a recognise, a miracle when you see what that was a miracle, so I said: hey look! It's thanks for coming like man, so ok, I can handle, the scratch send the part needed, and I got the car fixed in forgave mountain You know it had a happy ending. So it's about trust right, because I didn't know him from Adam and he's a pro. Made full of snakes just like the rest of us, and yet he was willing to simplify himself to the point where I could just taken absolutely at his word, and that meant we could trade, even though we were strangers. It's like me, I do not underestimate the utility of and then there's Ebay? So when Ebay first started, you know the idea was not going to because you ll send me junk and I'll send you a check that bounces and that'll be the end of Ebay right and so these this girl agents popped up. So you could ensure your transaction with moves for like ten percent of the transaction. They would get the check in

goods and make sure that they were ok and then send the morn or ensure the transaction, but happened. Was the escrow agents didn't make any money and the reason for that was no one cheated think about how amazing that is right, you bring these people together across a whole. No, they ve never seen each other before there never going to interact with each other again in this was before the ready reputation ratings on Ebay and yet the default transaction was you describe your goods on? we, including their flaws. You set a reasonable price. I decide to pay you ship the good and I pay you and it works, and what happened was that Ebay produced it produced a tremendous amount of capital that was previously frozen or frozen. Capital is when you have invested money in something but the thing is no longer useful to you. So the money is just sitting there froze right so to speak, and you can't get it loose because well, you ve got attic full of junk. How are you gonna,

rid of that. We may all of a sudden all these things that we're just junk became valuable and everybody got richer and none of that what would have happened without the covenant that we established between each other? That's predicated on trust and so you might say that trust is the currency and currency is trust because its promissory note right and if people lie than parents who gets debased very very rapidly, and so economy runs on trust, and so that's part of the overarching covenant so able makes this covenant with God and he decides that he's gonna aim high and live a good life and tell the truth that puts this boundary around him. It's like a walled garden. It's like a walled garden and the inside there there's all sorts of things that are happening that are complex and difficult, but outside a boundary and the boundary is well. Maybe things would it's, like God

says after the floods, he says I'll, never send a flood again, that's part of the story, and so there's an intimation there that no matter how bad things get they won't get so bad that they'll be catastrophic, but there's a but there's a coded to that, which is that you have to maintain the covenant and. We don't know what that means. You know, because you know You think it's pretty obvious that if you treat people well, if you really think about it and you're, not being naively optimistic and, like you know, a nice good person for what, with all the weakness that that that that that that that that the intimate of you being hard nosed insensible. You understand that if you treat people, if you trust people, that's an active curry, if you're, not naive right. If your naive, it's an active stupidity because you might get bit and you probably will, and if you're, not even you get bit, you will suffer

or a traumatize you, but if you're, not naive- and you know you can get death, then you might ask what what did you do with people and answer? Is you should trust them and not because naive and not because they couldn't betray you and not because you don't know that they could betrayal, but because if you hold out your hand in trust in your inviting the best part of that person to step forward, and that won't happen unless you take that initial step and that courage not naivety Trust someone once your eyes are open. That's an act of courage, and now opens up the world you. Don't you might say. Ok And so there's this idea in the story that you can withstand it: a fair bit of the catastrophe of life by establishing the proper covenant by acting in untrustworthy manner and extending your hand to people properly,

you might say well, ok that sensible. I can understand how that would work, and I can certainly see how the opposite wouldn't work, because you know if I have to be clearly terrified that you're gonna betray me at every possible moment and weren't. You negotiation. We're not going to get any worked on man, because I'm going to be figuring out what you're, up to the time and you're gonna be figuring out what I'm up to all the time and we're just not going to get anywhere come and say, you're going to do something, and I can just simplify you. I can see you're going to do what you said. You do not have to worry about you and then the same applies to me and then we can go. Do something and that's how we generate wealth so then, I'd say well with. What's that ultimate limit of that. You know like. We know that there is corruption in our society that people betray each other than theirs deceit and all of that and it causes. Things like the periodic collapse in two thousand and eight, which was complicated but was partly engendered by corruption. What would be, upside if we acted. If we really,

determined to act honestly? What do you think it is that people would be able to do with the world if we stop acting in a correct manner, mean what what like what? What is the side? You think we could could could how far Can we push aging? Do you think if we hit hard for fifty years, hello lifespan. It wouldn't prize me. You know all these, terrible diseases that beset the planet, we can get rid of them. Reason for hunger and starvation. We make enough food, it's like what. What happens if we stopped acting badly? How much better could things get when you start locally? I think you start with yourself and start with your family, but you know there's intimations of the divine there's intimations of the kingdom of God and the company with God in the old testament Psych you think. Well, we speak secular early. You think well that A non provable assumption like well toll on a SEC. It's the assumption here exactly what is an opera

for humanity, who's going to say right, who's, gonna, say, especially in this day and age. Man These things happening that you can't even comprehend them. What did we do we put all of our effort into it, while you can experiment without- You can start in your own household, you can start in your own room and you can miracles happen in the confines of your own space. There's no doubt about that! All you have to. Let's is try. You see that that happens at home and people are writing to me and telling me that their try this enough. That's exactly what's happening in so so we to be too cynical about about where might be headed and Hagen or Abrams son Avram call this name which Hager Bear Ishmael, who is by tradition the forefather of several arab nations and of Mohammed himself, and Abraham was four score in six years old when Hagar their Ishmael Apron, So that's the end of another story and then so that

names and then again we have an encounter between Abraham, in God,. Who neighbor was ninety years old and nine? Ninety nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said I am the almighty God walk before me, and be thou perfect. Alexander Mclaren, who is a biblical commentator who lived in the early nineteenth century, said this phrase walking For God is not precisely walking with God, because that's what Noah did right he says it's rather, that of an active life spent in continual consciousness of being naked and open Before the eyes of him to have whom we have to give account was pretty happy to stumble across that, because I mean I might have picked and chosen. Of course, you never know that with You do that, but it does seem in keeping with the narrative strain of the chapter right, because what we ve hypothesize so far is that what is called Abraham instead, you know get out there in the world.

Go to where its unknown go to, where you're a stranger and get away from the familiar go out to the unknown. Establish yourself and great things will come of it, regardless of proximate evidence. Great things will come of it, and so I think that's what the walking before going refers to it's not like Abraham is acting incertainty. There's no certainty here that that's the active, the leap of faith, even because it does require leap of faith for you to move into the world, because the world is a catastrophe, evidently, the world is a catastrophe, and so there is theirs there is every reason for you to assume that used to sit basement and hide from it. But that's that's not. It doesn't help make things better in the thing is: perhaps you not built for that you're not built to hide. I dont think that people are built to hide. I think it destroys them. So walking before God in some sense means that Abraham. We could say taking the lead, he's the person that's going out there into the unknown. God says both grey things can happen, is little short on details. That's for sure, so the weight

still on Abraham and that's a good thing, because it also that enormous Abraham right, that's the other thing that so cool is that if God had just laid out Whole story, and you know brush the the the branches from neighbourhood path, while it was walking forward well, then there would be nothing for Abraham to do then be no nobility in his own pursuit, and this is everything thing that we don't understand very well, it's really tough thing understand is like how much trouble would you want there not to be it's weird question right because you want to have some to contend with you and I have something that forces from you, the best that you have and we have to have real problems. Something like that. Would you despair with all your real you could just lay down on the bed have pabulum infused into your mouth. You know if all your problems were solved, and so maybe you want difficult, problems that you can solve something like that, because there's some I didn't what it is about. It there's a there's, the overcoming in the end, the growth that comes along with that there's some.

About the nobility of the enterprise. You certainly see that when you go about having children for example, which, as you know, the psychological literature is quite clear You do moment to moment comparisons of people who have kids and people who don't have kids. The people who don't have kids are happier and so psychologist suit, tend to get things wrong, even when they make intelligent discoveries like that one immediately. Some of them jumped to the conclusion that Because happiness is the goal that well there's. Something both children, that you don't make you unhappy and that's good. It's like what wait a second that's the wrong metric. It's like. Of course, you're less happy once you have children, because you have to worry about them. You know my neighbour down the street is very smart woman said to me once you can only be as happy as your unhappiness child. And which I thought was really good. You know that's really smart, but then, Isn't it involves having children doesn't make you happy, the answer? Isn't don't have children, it's like, don't be so stupid about being happy. That's the answer is because there's a,

billowy in the pursuit right and, of course, no you're responsible. You know we have baby. You think specially. If you knew aren't you think who the hell is this: what am I gonna do with it? You know it's like and then you're you're done for the rest of your life. You never sleep properly again, because you're gonna be worried about this creature that you have to take care of it but like what the hell good. Are you if you're not doing that or something else equally difficult, because you just you just have been called out yet take on responsibility like that. The idea that life is that happiness is the purpose of life. It's like great for happiness, man. If it comes along. You should be three that is visiting you, but the notion That's it that's what you pursue that's, that's the weakest possible notion. First of all, As soon as something terrible hams you you're done so is to be happy. It's like well now you have cancer, so how's that How is the happiness thing work it out, for you now

or maybe it's not. You know, maybe it's your father that hails Alzheimer's Disease or some damn thing and in old, like it too A person that doesn't have some catastrophe one one person away from them is like life, is to be happy its that's not right, and we can at least I've that from these stories that isn't what they say. It all gods perfectly happy in the stories to grant the people with We forms a covenant, happiness and the concern, because all you have to do is have your eyes half opened, and you see that aim high and get your bloody act together. That's the rule and establish this contractual covenant with the ultimate idea, and that will see you through the catastrophes and that's a much more mature way of looking at life as far as I'm concerned, because all you have to do is have your eyes half opened and you see that the fundamental reality of life is tragedy and suffering. There's that's inescapable request that doesn't mean that it is makes life unbearable or that it makes being something that shouldn't have existed? I thought

what it means, what it means but you have to contend with it and you have to get ready and the way this to adopt responsibility for yourself and for others it is the priority for that, an amendment if you do that property than now and then you get some happiness. You know you can sit at the end of the day and you have half an hour where your conscience is clear and theirs I think that you need to be doing and you can relax and thinking about that. That's all Things are ok and thank God for that, and that's that's maybe where you get your happiness so something. That's growing up. Man obviously an end, not know that and not be taught that, like everyone should be taught that it so obvious. We should be taught that. Well, that's partly with these biblical stories do And I'll make my covenant between me and the and will multiply the exceedingly and from fell on his face year and go talk with them, saying. As for me,

hold my covenanters with IE and thou shalt, be a father of many nations. God says this: a lot Taber right! It's it's almost like ass to remind him now and then- and it's not surprising because it keeps going through these unbelievable adventures. You know that are really psychologically. Socially shattering, so it's a good thing. This reminder, pops up in honour and fairly frequently of course, Abraham is also open to it, and I think what does it mean? You know I'll talk and personally for a moment. I guess so. I've asked myself a lot of questions in the last eight months. Man. I can tell you that and I'm You'll ask myself lot of questions and I've been conferred. With a lot of people, say lots of people who were helping me to go Whatever the hell. This is the tapping, and you know why Ask them how I was doing, and they would tell me a bunch of things I was doing wrong and some things I was doing right and I could listen to them and was asking questions all the time about how the hell I should manage this properly, and you know what

What I was trying to do and what seem to serve me properly was to figure out how to do it correctly. That was the issue like. I didn't really care what happened, and I guess I really dont care what happens, but I do care if I do it correctly, because I don't want to screwed up three things up in that seems to be a reasonable goal for people I mean, wouldn't you like, that is a goal that you don't screw things up because it uncontrolled whom you know your life isn't fully under you control by any stretch of the imagination, but it might be nice, to the north. Have your conscience eating out you saying: look you know you have to pay opportunity there and you're marked it up. Your weak and blind. And you didn't listen. That's no good. The cast the guitar It is bad enough, as I said, without you being the bloody source of it, and so. Well, that's Abrams falling on his face, I guess and also communing with God. It's like you need your help. To get it right. He wants to get it right and there's

these things that back in promise, but but its bloody easy to make a catastrophic mistake and you'll do that in your life. No one. And maybe humility is one of the things that can prevent that because you can look at you can think. Ok, what am I doing wrong? What am I doing wrong? What can I do better? How can I do this properly and then maybe you know you get you get You get the intimation of the proper way to move forward, and maybe that's what protects you when things are chaotic, indian strife and who knows what that's worth. Neither shall thy name anymore, be called Abraham, which means high king. If I remember correctly, but thy name shall be Abraham for a father of many nations? Have I made the we S Abrams high Father? Look at that Abraham means father of a multitude, and I will make the exceedingly fruitful and I'll make nations, of the productive right, productive and that's it to be something. That's that's good to be. I mean I can't do this.

That I've thought about deeply. I dont deeply about death the death of my family members and about funerals, and I thought about it, partly because I had this weird experience once that I think I told you about where I took one of my clients to see it, embalming, which is very strange experience, and I had a choice. To talk to the funeral directors. You know because they have we're jobs, you know There's this idea well of the Friday an idea that people suffer from terrible death, anxiety and there's a whole line of social, psychological theory, theorizing called terror managed theory. That's predicated on the idea that we defend ourselves against death, anxiety with our belief systems and, like it's a puppets earnest Becker's idea, he wrote the denial of death, which is a great book. There is a weakness in it because you see some people who aren't like that. You know like emergency room nurses like that and tell you Karen nurses aren't, like my sister in law, is a palliative care owners. That's a whore job right. You go in there you're carrying for people you have in their in pain, neurons

legs you trying to make them comfortable and you have a relationship with them, because how the hell are you gonna make them comfortable? If you dont, then they go and die or new and not just happens. That's what happens every day right and it's weird People can be palliative care. Nurses is like how do you figure that out? Because people can actually through, in the face of death? Strangely enough and like these funeral parlor directors, they were interesting too. Two because not only do right, they just deal with they deal with death and grief all the time. Very interesting talking to them because I talked to them. They found. Job extremely meaningful, and I The more you know does that we wanted due to your life, you know your saturated with death and suffering, and there This is the same answer that I got from the palliative care nurses, that it doesn't undermine your life enriches it. Would guess that right I mean what the hell that's just doesn't make any sense at all, but what it does is speak too. Human possibility, because God only knows how tough you are

If you read History- and you read about what people have done, you think, while we're pretty tough people are, I read, there is a shipwreck in the Antarctic a hundred years ago was soon. I read the story is not a biography. If I remember correctly, of the of the captain might be wrong about I've got the basic story right well shipwreck and the Antarctic. I was then they were there for a whole year. In the end, you know and none of them died not want, didn't lose a single man, not one. Kept the rural high, and then they took this. Oh, that was on the ship and they cross. Four hundred miles of the roughest ocean, the roughest frigid ocean in the world right You don't go in that ocean and then they, to an island and they walked. Ass the island across these mountains that no one else has ever climbed since went to the city on the other side of the island. They got about anyone rescued their computer.

And everyone survived. It's like in is the name of the book. You read that book and you think wow people are really tough. You know what is in it and its reach region. Kill us all. Who knows how tough you are, and maybe you find by going out to find out tough! You are right, so you take on a challenge. What did you think you can master just It's just a bit beyond your grasp, denounced and then your little tougher and you think, hey that worked out pretty well and so the new more of a monster, and then you go You find another challenge that even bigger and you think. Well maybe I can do that too and then all of a sudden, you can and you get a little bit bigger and God only knows why The limit is our view and you note by pushing yourself against the world and, of course that's what Abraham is doing so. See, we're very pessimistic us modern people. You know we're pessimistic about humane that's for sure, dismal, wretched planet.

Strewing cancer on the planet, right as the club of Rome described this so Secondly, back in the nineteen sixties, you know I don't know, maybe we're ashamed of the cold war, maybe we're ashamed of all the destruction in the twentieth century and the hydrogen bombs and and the continuing catastrophes of our societies and were deeply ashamed about an ashamed of ourselves personally, but it's a hell of a thing to call us answer on the planet. There's just no excuse for that, because what you do with answer is eradicated and I don't think. That's a very noble motive. Personally, and I think it says a lot about the people who use such phraseology that they would dare to conception humanity in that manner. But you know would be nice if we could be optimistic and, I think began the problem optimistic as that its naive. So then the question is: is there an optimism? That's not naive, and I think there is an option. That's not naive, isn't just

a visualization of how strong people can be so one of the things said, I tell people, I told my students in my class meaning here is you want, be the person at the funeral. Your father that everyone can rely on. How would that be gonna, be the person whose broken and and useless and adding to the misery in the corner and look I'm not making light people's grief. Understand grief who do you want to be when there's a crisis right would be the person that everyone can turn do for strength. Why the hell nor were not. That is a goal that be go because then, if there is a crisis- and there will be won't, be such a bloody crisis because it be someone there that can deal with it. You know. So when I went talk to these people at the funeral home, I envisioned that I thought okay well. This is something you have to contend with. If you're going to be alive

Adult you have to contend with death, and suffering and you have to be ready for it and you have to be there, if we, the person, because that's all they're, gonna have and so there is a good man and in time of nihilism. You know it's. What's the point of life people ask and in their turn, tat at universities. What's the point of life, everything's interpretation humanity's cancer on the planet. You know well how about no, what's that. What to do something to us. And I will stop us my covenant between me and the in thy seed after the in their generations for an everlasting covenant to be a God unto the into thy seed after the

And I'll give unto the into thy seed after the land wherein thou art a stranger all of the land of cane and costs. Of course, Abraham went out into The land of strangers right, but it says that master if ye, if he keeps his covenant here, us through the land of strangers. That's a wonderful! thing to know and I think a true thing. You know, because if you're dealing with strangers, I've dealt with lots of strange people in my life partners, psychologists and that is to say that everyone that I've dealt with with strange, because that's not the case, but I have encountered some very strange people, and you know. The way to deal with strange people is to you never lie to a strange person. That's the thing, especially if their paranoid You never lie to someone who's paranoid. It will come back to bite you and if you are extreme situation with someone whose very unpredictable.

The only thing you have that works is the truth that works. I'll tell you a little story. This is in my book, so I had this landlord in montreal- live next door. To me he was an ex hell's angels. Biker he'd spend a lot of time in prison and his wife had borderline personnel disorder and she committed suicide. When I lived there and here rough guy, and he was a kid cubic why he spoke Jewel, which I could hardly understand and he didn't really know what to make of me, and I didn't really know what to make of him. But we got long in. I was very careful talking to him, as you might imagine, but I was it was very and we went over to my wife and I went over there and we had spaghetti dinner one night and we sort of indicated, and I bought a poster from him because he made these wooden posters that had neon on them and now tat. We made a living he'd kind of train himself to be a bit of an electronic sky, and so we may,

these things and he was trying to quit drinking and we talked about that. He was lot older than me. Like twenty years older than me. I was about twenty five at this point and we got along pretty well every now and then he'd go out and get a drink and he could really drink. What like he was one of these guys who can drink like sixty beer and you think we'll know can drink that much in you're wrong. I study alcohol. Like ten years. Some of my subjects, father, straight forty ounces of vodka day and had been doing it for twenty years. So you can drink a lot and he could drink a lot and what would and he's trying to not drink, but he'd go out and going to the engine and he'd begun for like three days and he drink up all his money. And then we do you Promoting the backyard howl yet the moon with this little little ugly, how'd. You know he'd, the dogwood. How then he'd how dogwood howling and it was rather unsettling and made my wife nervous.

But worse, you know now and then he'd come to the door like three in the morning. Open the door and needs to be standing there, and I don't know how much experience you ve had, With rough guys, who are alcoholic and who were drunk but its, they can be upright and unconscious at this time, and so that was the state that he was in. You know, he'd be just swaying and he does me if I would like to buy his toaster or his microwave because did some money to keep drinking, and you know I didn't really want to buy a toaster or as microwave, but when the air, tells angel. You are speaking. Sixty beer drunk Kay Backward bikers shows up at your door at three in the morning for you to sell efforts to sell you his microwave these, it has been used to say I really need a microwave, so

So you know I bought the microwave and toaster some other things, but then. But then my wave talk to me and she, like my landlord, you know No, she was afraid of him. She liked them and- and she said you can't buy anymore anymore appliances, because it's not good for him, and I thought that's an interesting problem. You know What the hell am I going to do about this, because no I dont want to buy your microwave. Just doesn't seem to be the right answer at three in the morning, so. So one time he took me out on his seven fifty honda- and he put me on the back we want to show me his lair. I guess his hang out I got his wife's helmet on, but it didn't fit. It just sit on the top of my head and he said, none of the boy could he said if the cops chases,

we're not stopping them in a way we weren't and we went to these like these bars. Town on some raw, they were very rough places you got into like for fights that night because he was Rough guy, you know in these kind of pipe guys would come up women, sort of challenge them and act stupidly around them and he was very sceptical and if you are acting stupidly around him for any length of time you just hit, because he felt about what you deserve. Perhaps he was right so I had first hand opportunity observe him so anyways. He sure enough about a week or two after we had conversation he showed up at the door. Knock knock, knock, you know open the door, no standing there, you know with his eyes kind of half closed and he was swaying and he had I don't remember what the appliance was this time. But are you to sell it to me, and I said I'm not Paul. I can, by this I'm not going to buy this because I know you're trying to quit drinking, and

If I give you this money, then you're gonna go and drink it up, not going to be good for you, and what else did I tell him. I think I told them as well that this whole thing of coming to my house like two in the morning scaring my wife who liked and that it had to stop and believe me, man. I was thinking about what I was saying, because he was watching me like A guy watches you in a rough watches you like this- he thinks, if you say one thing that indicates contained you're, gonna, bloody, well pay for it, and so on was finding my words like you know. Was crossing a swamp and trying to look for the further underneath the surface and I said what I had to say very very carefully, and he looked at me for about fifteen seconds. And that's a long time to be looked at. At three in the morning and he laughed.

And he never came back to sell me anything again and we got Fine, but that's it see illustration of this issue with regards to true and success in this strange land, because I was in, strange land when I was talking to my neighbour, my landlord and and I managed to say what was true carefully So, despite the fact that he was a very violent person. And then he was a very intoxicated person And then he had every reason to be suspicious of me and we couldn't communicate very well and I and do what he wanted, that he took it and he left and there was no problem and life went on just fine after that, and so We don't want to underestimate the utility of.

Establishing this bounded relationship with the ideal and attempting to live With some nobility, in truth, why being at the highest ideal. Theirs thing about that. That's anything but. Ring thinning and positive, and its. Actually what you need to set against the catastrophe and uncertainty of life, and as far as I can tell that's what these Abraham stories are attempting to communicate we'll stop there. Thank you. I was playing

press with your presentation last week, and I quite sure where was going at one point in would neither knew there was that's okay, because of what point I listen to, I thought what you basically were talking about. This is what I saw you were embodying mind body and spirit and bringing it all together as one and you touch. Bed tonight when you too, when you talk about you this, where we need to go right- and I know you see, be positive and all that and yeah. That's right, I agree is scary. What's going on right now, however, we have the power to stay in the positive. What you talk last week you talked about using our intuition, which I consider or higher self consciousness and you may reference. I can't remember exactly what use what you said, but you hold your hand and what about emotions and bringing intellect on top. And when you said, emotions everything just lit up for me, because I'm thinking nuts are hurt sharper, that's what combines or law herself or physical being the mature, stuff, all the other stuff. It doesn't really

motivate us with her high yourself Eminem when you talked about emotion, I want to talk about emotion of love and I find some. People are terrified. Therefore let her word, I know, but it doesn't have to be banned Ok, so I remember why, when I talk to you last week, while I want you to ask this question so ok, so I've talked a lot in this lecture series about truth No, I think, there's a battle in the biblical stories or the way through between love in truth and in terms of their primacy and so, and I have concentrated lot on truth in my own thanking my eyes and it's hard to talk about love, because its word that people have mouth to death, you know assumes you start talking Love than people should just go into a different room and and not listen to you. You know because it gets it can get Sapien New HP just like that- and I don't like that at all, but but it still is something that has to be contented with, and I think so I ve been

how to conceptualize. Let's say what this covenant might might constitute, and I think the love part. So here's this. So you know there's this book by heard that called Faust and it's in two volumes one in five to logically enough. One was written much later than the other and fast basically cells the soul to the devil for for knowledge and the devil in full. Is mephistophelean. Mephistophelean is quite a well developed character and growth that has mephistophelean say what he's about, which is really quite cool. So it's like the adversary of the world evil itself gets a chance to speak and make its case Gerda thought this was so important that he actually had Mephistophelean announced himself once in full one and then. Using the same words. You know phrase differently again and in part to really struck me really struck me, So what Mephistophelean says is that.

The world is such a charter house of suffering and destruction that it would be better if it never existed, and so that what he's working too is to bring existence to an end, because it is not justified by itself. It's like knots. It's an argument very similar to the argument that made by Ivan Camera. Comrades of thank you. I should say you can't pronounced them or live with them. You can but he'd basically he's an atheist and does a very good job of detailing out the atheist argument, or maybe an anti theorist argument and he's with his his brother Alyosha, whose Mont Monastic Novitiate, who is a very good guy, but not an intellect islands of intellect and very powerful one, and he based four year old daughter in an that overnight

All of the cosmos isn't worth the suffering of one child. He tells the story about this in this dostoevsky took this from a newspaper about this parents. That locked therefore year old daughter in and out house overnight, and she screamed about it until she froze to death, and so does the US can use that argument tied that into Ivan Anti Theist argument against Alyosha, very, very powerful arguments. The brothers Karamazov is an absolutely mind, boggling amazing book. Would highly recommended, and so that's enough softly in perspective. Mr Filippi feeling perspective, this perspective is that being itself is so corrupted shouldn't exist. So then you think ok without fair enough, That's a decent argument, understandable, but the problem comes when you try to implement that and what happens when you implemented as far as I can tell you adopt, that must emphasise two aphelion attitude of bitterness and resentment and destruction is that you make all the suffering that you're,

planing about far worse. I think that's what happened at the base of things in the twentieth century is that there was a powerful. Movement among human humanity to bring being itself to a halt. You know what com needed in the development of the hydrogen bombs and and the high probability for many, many periods of time that we were going to do something permanent and fatal which seems like a bad idea. It seems like a bad idea. What's the what's the opposite of the Methodist Ophelia, an attitude and I think the opposite of that is what's presented in the biblical stories in the guise of love, and that is the wish that things would be good. It's something like that. That's what love, I think, is that it's the attempt to orient yourself towards making things better and needs predicate something like a dog appreciation for being too, despite its suffering and deficient, and maybe a decision that you're going to act to bring about things, moving

towards the good, and I think, that's thing that sets the parameters of the of aim. It's it's the opposite of the method to feel inadequate attitude. It's like to work. Words, the betterment of being because you ve decided that you're going to open your heart to existence, something like that and its within that framework. That truth takes place. I think his truth has to sort something tat can treat conserve truth but has to be bounded inside something, and I think that's what it's bounded inside. So what have we got to refer to what that was some David Hawkins role, power versus force, and it put it on a quantified full scale all different emotions. He called a consciousness, any put love at five hundred and twenty eight hurts. He put shape but twenty I'm not sure, but got these a hundred percent right guilt. I think it's three thousand eight hundred and fifty, and it shows you how far the people who are really knocked down have to get to love and I'm thinking if we quantified love on a term. It means different thing. Everybody, and rightly so, but gonna get to that frequency.

If you look at the south, as you know it, you know the musical notes. Have you darling, I'm afraid I'm gonna I'm going to ask you to stop if you would, because I should. I should go to another question if you thank you very much. Hoagie So even an educator through the rise of the smartphone and my question and basically relates to procrastination and task delay. Needless testily, specifically, and given the unprecedented level of distraction that we have in today's world, I just want to get your perspective from a site.

Logical standpoint on other than cleaning your damn room. What would you suggest to a student who is looking to overcome these lines? Will I think, with any: let's call it addictive process mean emails, powerfully addictive right, partly it's it's a slot machine. I mean they're technically. So when you Paul it's that's a variable ratio. Reinforcement schedules were correctly and very addictive, because if you pull on the slot machine arm enough, you will win. And you never know which pole will reward? you, and so not only is that addictive. It's very hard to extinguish that and so emails like that. There is always something beckoning unknown in its jackpot and social media like that, because you know people are posting interesting things, and so

Well, how do you overcome an addictive process and partly you do it by replacing it with something better right. So when people study drug and alcohol use they, they often make an elementary mistake, which is to try to figure out why people use drugs and alcohol. That's that's not a smart thing to wonder. We know why people use cocaine, cocaine, directly, stimulates the systems that produce positive emotion. So, like so there's no mystery there. The mystery with cocaine is very, very simple. Why don't we take all the time until they die. That's the mystery really cause You can get isolated rats to do that so and for some alcohol has the same kind of effect, except it's mediated by opiates, but new, often what people have to do to get themselves out of an addict approach. To find something better to do to replace it I would say the problem with the gadgets and mean there

is things is that they interfere with? They proximate we interfere with medium to long term goals, I would say- and so I think the first thing you have to do- to bring them under control is figure out what it is that their use is interfering with? It has to be something important, so you think well, I want to do something important. What is that could be personal? Maybe you want to have a relationship you gotta get married. You you, wanna have kids. You won't have a career that meaningful. You know you have a life, you, you want to have an Abraham, make adventure and be the father of nations. Let's say what can be riding away on your cell phone in doing that, and so I think I think part of it is to say your sights higher and make up and figure out who you could be and see if. Obsessive utilization of smartphone fits into that vision of nobility and

partly because there there were unbelievably powerful communication devices, but so so often it's it's for lack of something better to do, and it also interferes so that's about the best I can do with that Large pieces, so you ve, been you been talking with some of the conservative carrots for leadership this year, any you talked with most of them right now, all of them, but a number of them. They ask you talk with Andrew. Yes, yes, so so something very interesting popped up in my facebook feed. So it was ad for the conservative party and it was suggesting that we cut cut funding to public universities that don't or free speech. That was probably my fault. Yet

precise Africa's, because this is something you say in some of your wilder moments. You suggest that we should cut the universities funding by twenty five per and let them bottle it out for remains and he's taken that you know his his what form. But now what you're doing is will. You will want to things you're doing. Is you ve created this website, identifies the postmodern lexicon and helps people, English between posts and courses and not, and so people won't take them or take them if they want. Yeah yeah. That's it its it'd be interesting to know why what sort of malevolent postmodernism just study you meticulously and try to use all your knowledge of it anyway. So but, but but you ve said, though you said that what we need to do is starve it out from the swag okay, so yeah that look so

How do I know where you're going so about two weeks ago, three weeks ago I went up to northern scotch when my parents have a cottage up where the hell out in the middle of nowhere and there's no cell phone. Although we do have internet now, which is probably out in good but anyways, I got to take a bit of a break which was good because I haven't really beneath To think he does you. No more broadly about say what I'm doing, who the hell. I don't know what the hell I'm doing exactly this is. This is all, very strange and but But one thing I thought about, I was out on the lake. I was canoeing around and I thought I thought about war. No, because I was very irritated I'm very irritated about. What's happened to the universities, and there's a hint of malevolence about it. I'm not a found. A video, logical possession and I've been set. Up on my heels, a lot over the last eight months by the

the onslaught of what emerged. When I say, that there was words I wouldn't say, and so it's put me into a defensive posture. Let's and I have been thinking in terms of war metaphors. You know like. This is a battleground and that there is a war going on any ideological war, and I do believe that that's true. But then I was reading than I did this partly for this course I was reading the sermon on the Mount and one of the things it says is resist not evil I dont know what to make of that line, and so on was talking to a bunch of people about it. Reading about it, a lot in trying to what it meant and partly what it means is don't waste time right, because when fighting against something. Then there's something else you not doing, and then I thought all

when I was out there in I thought what do I really want to be in a war because war? That's not that's, not that's not that's, not Heaven, that's for sure to really stressful and people get hurt. And so I thought well, maybe that's just the wrong way of thinking about it, even though there is a battleground issue here- and I thought well wait a second maybe maybe the right thing to do in a situation like this- and this is maybe something that on the old right might consider is that the right thing to do, may be used to outline a better way, rather than Gore drink. And that would be better now with regards to cutting the idea of the website- and perhaps it is somewhat at odds without I'm, I'm not sure about that, but what I'm trying to do instead of conduct, this like a war, let's say, is to conduct it like a move.

Towards something better and- and that would be better now with regards to, the universe is funding. I thought about that too, and I thought wait. A second that's not gonna work out because its inviting political interference into higher education now the political interference might be, the counterbalancing kind, because the evidence that the humanities in particular have tilted almost a hundred percent to the letter, this overwhelming and so maybe some counter, I once from the right would set things more towards the middle, but the problem is: when you open up the door to political interference with higher education content, you and closed the door again and so on reflection, I thought there are probably was a sub optimal idea, a number. We better instead was too and what is what I want to do. When I launch the website. I want to ask students the students who will be using it's like what do you want from university? Cuz? Here's here's your options, you can, you can come out any logically possessed

right, you can buy this doctrine. Is pathological doctrine and you can become bitter unresentful and you won't learn to community probably and you won't read the great works of civilization and you won't learn to think and right. You won't become noble in body and spirit. Is that what you want, or do you want the art? Did you want a real education, and then I want to plain what that means like. I did tonight to some degree. You know that there is absolute value in learning how to put yourself together into communicate into No, your eyes yourself with with with the classic works of civil, Is- and I want to offer that I want to do what I can to offer that as the proper alternate instead of staying in. Winston this notion of a battle which is just I just don't think it's the right metaphor, so either inductive use, and I just want to say that I think what you doing is absolutely, where actual is itself a change.

Life and I'm sure at least raise your hand if doktor tediousness of change of life, Before the better for the worse asking to look, what's It's about forty people, Maybe- and that's miraculous- and I think, and in your thinking is gonna, be it's gonna, be It can be all over the place in the canadian election in two years, and I think that God, that's a horrible thing. Do you better watch out for a body and unity and end and theirs it's gonna be a lot of talk about how how how Andrew shears political message is gonna. Stem from yours, and I think it's really important that he he doesn't send Sir himself, like other conservative politicians are doing and in because we need need to unite under a valid, thoughtful articular,

conservative voice, and what do we have now have we have trump? That's what you know we did we did, we don't have any we very strong, articulate male voices and are an hour and our political discourse right now. That's when oil is definitely time for you to develop one So it looks like you're on the right path- hello, other bidders than I think of everything you ve done this past year and I do mean everything. But let us stop the this letter series and get you to move just it. Yes, green. Belted out moon, okay, so I'll try to be sustained. I have two comments on one question: ok, first common, as you mentioned, how you were prevented from employing a year are due to video from last week. Yeah actually turn that lecture, and I make pretty details See if you an email, you that's ok, I've got it it's my accounts. Reinstalled restored reinstall. It restored

yeah, and so it's ok, it's ok. Straightened out and I'm going to upload. The videos to a bunch of other sites, and so this isn't going to happen again. So, but I appreciate that this and letters and a new one, My second comment is about sort, a kind of going into the commentaries of christian theology sobered over the centuries. Like you know yourself, I just would like To encourage everybody to also look at not just western Christianity, but also Eastern Christianity, like the orthodox writings, there's a big difference between the two. That the western sort of theology. Out of the roman roman law, roman justice, so theirs alone, more emphasis on can adjust the sun Christ him, but she got across our sense of that there that a kind of like legal pay back room bright, whereas the eastern? These eastern theology is a lot more

It is for us a lot more love and non sort of the positive aspects, and if you do read like first for centuries of Christianity weren't. There was no schism, there is very little mention of like a sort of legal listed. We're gets a lot more prosaic or more heartfelt, I guess so The that we also in the worst look at the eastern Congo counterpart especially morsel. Now, because I do perceive a lot of fake law as being at the centre of this malevolence that you mentioned so that you know this whole thing about demonize the opposition saying that there, their heartless now- and I love this in that I perceive. That is a lot of fake love, and I think that we have to keep in mind what you will is. Sometimes it looks ugly looking dealing with, gadget patients, maybe Countries are not as liberal as Canada, but did they get results a lot more often,

UNICEF Mesa gadget patients on the road, for example in Greece, where I am from so, but we are thus comic- but that we need to more lowborn what real love, as I think, and not just the the kind of love that on a scale, because I believe it to be love on a scale, so I've been talking to some of you know to this guy Jonathan Persia, whose an orthodox carver and he started to you to channel one he's talking a lot about orthodox issues and I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to Orthodox Christianity, but from what I understand of it so far, there is plenty to be learned so. Monsters myself I had just risen came back to my faith. Two years ago. That was the original Christianity than There- was a schism of one thousand fifty four between east and West. Because of the the complex that these negotiations, Christians have

the pope and then, after that he also had a schism internally within the worst, between Catholicism and and the Protestants. So that's kind of like a big difference, said at Christianity ass. We actually came from the east, something that's why it's important that we look at them with ancient because those were the most are closest to the original message. So not my question It is or atheist MAC, you might hear of times people criticising anybody that has a sort of relief and in a deity or God, that you just somebody that has an imaginary friend intellect the heavenly father that you have to adhere to that you have, well of your own. You have then there's also like the contrary argument, be that ok, If I have a good relationship with my father and that's, why I'm more likely to accept a higher deity? Could it be that the EU has an atheist May? Have conflict with your father? That's why you're a virgin

of so many to a higher being that mechanic? There's your life while you're you're you're? attempting a psycho analysis of atheists. No one theres many factors that go into atheists em. I would say that you could make that case in some situations, but not at all. I do think, though, and I think this is perhaps where your question is stemming from- is that it's no fluke that at the same time, that one of the consequences of

the death of God that nature announced back in the late in hundreds is the all out assault on masculinity, that's occurring in our culture now and those things are associated, and I do think that does have to do with a lack of faith in the masculine spirit and that's a very bad thing, because once a bad thing for everyone. Obviously, because women have a partially masculine spirit and they have to put up with men and so to demolish that or to fail to nurture it, which is certainly what's occurring, is just a pathway to absolute disaster so Petersen. So this is the type of question that you hate, because it's in the category of white

why? You believe what you believe and it's a type of question that makes you say if I have a right from the last time quote. What now makes you think it's any of your business on private, ok, try to frame a properly okay and I'm asking this lecture ten of twelve and after having listened to quite a few hours of you here and elsewhere. Ok, and in so in your second interview, translational media, you lay out a few things. I have some courtier ask them for brevity, you get to the point. We are discussing the embodiment of

logos by Christ as a historical figure, and then you say quote is his resurrection. Real did his body resurrect, I dont know in today's lecture you you, you alluded to the fact that there are states of consciousness that perhaps we do not have access anymore and lets say that I'm with you there, let's em with the idea that their unknown their unknown ways to get intimations of the divine that the embodiment of the logos is associated with physiological transformations, the upper limits of which are unknown and that we might currently classifies paranormal, but to dump it right back down to my level, I'm asking about the guy commonly depicted with long Haired nailed to Acrost until that is adorn Alban. All of this goes to the heart of the question of liberalism and religious interpretation. It goes to the heart of kind of you know what we're doing here at this lecture series. Are we examining the psychological significance of these stories? Are we entertaining the possibility of these vent ass? Tackle events, I might be struggling with the concept, but I haven't been able to square away and reconcile those statements by you. So the question is on the

on the question of the resurrection of Christ. Why is your answer to your own question? I dont know instead of at the very least, probably not well you're. Definitely right about me hating that question. Well, I call this series the psychological significance of the biblical stories for reason you Know- and the reason was that I'm partially qualified to talk about such things- When I step outside of that, then I'm not where I should be. I dont think that sea I dont think that this is

not going to get this right. I can't get the words exactly right. This isn't about what I believe personally its part. Because I dont know what I believe I dont, but I believe, the world's a very strange place, have had some very strange experiences in it. I dont think its helpful for meat is to step outside my my jurisdiction and speculate precisely. The easiest thing would be to say. I think I said, but I had to say today. I dont think that we know what the upper limits of human possibility are. I dont know That means metaphysically. What I do understand from the gospels is that even the accounts of Christ's resurrection are complex and difficult to understand. I think from reading you in large part

that. You can make a very strong case for the symbolic meaning of the red death and resurrection. I think it does stand for the capacity of the human logo. To die and resurrect continually as it strives upward, I'm not willing to say that? That's all? It means because I don't know what breathing means and I don't know about that. The mental metaphysics of being I do believe that its accurate to construe being as ground between good and evil. I believe that, I believe that is the most accurate way of representing being not that most accurate way of representing the objective world. That's not the same thing being is that set of experiences which we inhabit and that's only hardly objective and it's not obviously reducible to the material, not any straightforward way, because we don't. This down the material substrate of being at all. You know it's.

And when we do attempt to understand it say at the quantum level we run into mysteries that that baffle the most the most intelligent us unaware So I'm going to have to leave the question hanging, but partly because Parliament I dont know what I think, but partly because. There has to be a line between what I believe in what what I can communicate it all What do you believe is beyond your capacity to articulate if you it the most at the deepest levels of blue I can only share with you what I have asked, we come to understand, Things that I dont understand and not definitely one of them. I don't know. How to draw a line between this symbolic significance of the biblical events say the symbolic and psychological significance of the biblical events and the metaphysics. That's underneath it and I

You see the same thing in young, because when young rights technically informally, he never talks about gaudy always talked about the image of God, which is not there. I think the image of God would be we're subjective experience of God. It says thing about the objective reality of God, because you're subjective experience can't say much about objective reality, but even in young you get this mix. You know something. Psychological, but any he makes a myth. Physical move, and I think that reflected also his the limits of his knowledge, because the young, profound revelatory experiences. It is a very strange person. You know- and I think so I think what's best for me is to stay on the ground that I'm competent on and to say what I say about the psychology into reach beyond that briefly its necessary, but other than that to leave it to hell alone to lie undressed

better, assuming that I ever do so because it is lectures I've been reading Bible in Bonn. I finished, but I'm fairly familiar with the with how it goes and the I've been thinking about two parts of it and specific, which is the story of Isaac and the the crucifixion of Christ, in particular, one of the things that the Christ says on the cross, which is my God, my god. Why have you forsaken. I've been trying to understand that, because that's one hell of a thing for the Son of God to say Do you think that would be needed to doubt No seriously, it's like. Why isn't that gone? You know it it it. It's it's very inconvenient in You haven't touched on the story of Isaac yet, but there's this thing: the cultural policy which

yeah, I'm sure you are aware of, but basically the idea that, what's going on in the old testament to serve the laying out of types for Christ and that I think, is essentially a type of Christ because they have already similarities, and so I ve been thinking about it. In that context and thinking about the parallels between them between eyes, I can Christ in one of the things they are struck me was mostly differences between. As I can question, the main difference, it seems to me, is serve a difference in direction of sacrifice so the sacrifices of Abraham is Abraham. Sacrificing is son to God and in the safe sacrifice of Jesus. Is God sacrificing here son to mankind and having understand, basically how that works and in relation to the you in western civilization for two thousand years, whether

these transformations of sacrifice right that can did so. The next thing that happens in these stories is that the circumcision circumcision starts to come in as a sacrifice, and it seems to be something like the beginnings of replacement for sacrifice of animals in order to do this psychology authorization of sacrifice of first, it's pure externally,. Acted out and then it becomes something. That's more conceptual like it becomes. Body in the form of the circumcision and then it becomes more conceptual and that conceptual transformation keeps occurring and- and it seems too I'd culminates to some degree in this idea of the sacrifice of Christ, whose whose guy sacrificing his son to mankind, but the sacrifices much more complex than that right. It's also crazy sacrificing himself to god- and I think that The issue there is something like. Oh let

say you're supposed to offer up the best that you have to God. That's the sacrifice, that's what happens with the equality, animals that that able sacrifice is ok but there something better than the best that you all well. What's that well part of it might be well. The relationships you have with people. Are you willing to sacrifice them to pursue the highest good What, then, are you willing to sacrifice yourself or your son, like your son, might be added one can understand the idea of sacrificing yourself better still wrestling with story of Isaac. Obviously, because that such a complicated story- and I do think it reasonable to think about it as a form of foreshadow. Least away? The Bible is set up course. People horn Christian, would agree with that, but that that's fine! The idea that you would offer yourself as a sacrifice to God that seems to me to quite logically, because while obviously you have nothing greater to give,

and the best of yourself right. So you sacrifice yourself to the highest good and that's part of the man part of the way in which humanity is redeemed. That makes sense That just seems like for me: that's that's a pretty straightforward psychological truth. The sun issue. That's that's a lot tougher thing to wrestle with, because one of the things I was thinking with the with what Jesus says on the cross is that one of the interpretations of that is that basically, that Jesus in that moment is human, basically, is not this not rank of its just Jesus the human right, but that always kind of felt a little bit like avoiding the question to me, because you can just bought it. Something like the trinity and and say, oh, but in this moment that doesn't go right through doesn't count so, but if we think about it in that way of, like the difference,

the direction of sacrificing. It seems to me that this aggravates whoever is making the sacrifice of aims towards something so Abraham is to reaching for the divine when he sector faces when he's going to sacrifice his son, and so that would mean need God is reaching toward the human and so they'll make some sense of that interpretation at Christ is only human in that moment, right that that its sacrifices accomplish than the reaching downs accomplished, but I'm still have to question what I make that that that's one in twelve, in its useful to have a problem like that, because it gives you something to think about right in something study further and it's it's it's it's a major. It's a major problem. I mean the whole issue of while we could say, what's that, relationship between the divine and the human which has obviously brought to the forefront in the idea of Christ. But it's a personal issue because part of the issue

what's the relationship between you as a finite entity and the transcended finicky that surrounds you, whether some relationship, because here you are and the transcendent infinity around you exists, so there's a relationship. The question is: why is the relationship and and we don't know that and and and its dramatized in that story. So I mean partly the reason that there's so much conflict and can fusion in their stories, because he's trying to bring opposing things together right. How can something be God and man at the same time, just like the genie which is the route word of genius by the way, The genie is this incredibly powerful force that can Grant wishes right, but it's strained in this tiny little space. There's an intimation there that come thing to be real, it has to straddle, the divide between the finite in the infinite

and that's what human beings do. I think to some degree and that's dramatized story, but it doesn't mean that we understand it mean. You know that sometimes your To feel that way. When you called upon to make a sacrifice, you're going to feel that you being betrayed by everything I mean the story set up that way right. Christ is betrayed by tyranny. He's betrayed by his best friends he's betrayed by his mortality like it's an architectural story because in these innocent. So the story can't be any worse. That's why it's architectural and mean that Research to some degree that Anderson, conditions, even God himself would have doubt it's something like that and that's a real, that's a powerful idea.

Very powerful idea. So that's the best I can make out of that. For now we have to stop so will so convene again in a week Thank you very much. If you found this conversation meaningful, you might think about picking up dad's books, maps of meaning the architecture of belief, what is new, are best seller, twelve rules for life, an antidote to chaos. Both of these works dove much deeper into the topics covered in the Jordan, be Petersen Podcast see: Jordan be Petersen, DOT, com for Audio Eba context, links or pick up the books favorite bookseller remember check out. Jordan, be Petersen, dot com, slashed personality for information on a new course, which is now fifty percent off. I hope you enjoy, this podcast. If you did Please let her friend now or later reveal next week

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