Welcome to the Jordan, be Petersen Podcast. This is season for episode. Forty four quick update again dad is doing much better again. We spent some time at a cottage and on a boat and he's feeling better than he hasn't two and a half years. So, thank God for that. In this episode, my dad is joined by two guests nationally, syndicated radio talk, show host New York Times, bustling author and co, founder of Prager University, Dennis Prager, an atom Corolla comedian, bestselling, author and host of the atom curl podcast. They spoke about their film, no safe spaces, freedom of speech religion, controversies in the film industry and a variety of present day. Political and global situations. I hope you enjoy this episode and have a great week we'll be back to two episodes a week very soon. This epoch, sponsored by relief banned if you're dealing with

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on your side effects? The technology was originally developed over twenty years ago in hospitals to relieve not from patients, but now, through relief band is also available to you guys right now. Relief ban has an exclusive offer just for Jordan, me Petersen listeners, if you gotta, relief, bandit dot com and use promo code at J, BP you'll receive twenty percent off plus free shipping and a no questions asked thirty day, money back guarantee so had to r l I e f b and need a calm and use our promo J Bp for twenty percent off plus free shipping, buddy, I'm talking today with Dennis Prager, who you might know

from Prager. You he's a national syndicated radio talk, show host heard on some three hundred stations across Amerika and around the world. I am also talking with Adam Corrales, best known as a comedian, actor radio personality, television host and New York Times best selling author back to Dennis he also, the co founder and president of Prager University, the largest conservative internet video site in the world with over a billion views per year, sixty five percent of which are by people under thirty five years. He's a New York Times. Best selling author is well of ten books, a biblical scholar with expertise in biblical Hebrew third volume of his five volume commentary on the Torah, the rash the Bible, will be published in the summer of twenty twenty one. It's become. The selling Bible commentary, the country back to Adam out. Currently holds the autumn. Corolla show which holds the Guinness Book of world records for most downloaded podcast we're gonna talk

they about movie that these two gentlemen were deeply involved in a documentary, no safe spaces and the problem its encountered in distribution agenda. Well, we're can range out from their into issues of free speech and perhaps beyond doubt as well, so welcome guys Very much for for talking with me today Dennis. Maybe you want to start you wanna talk a little bit about well, Prager you, and also maybe about the movie no safe spaces about the document? well, one relationship of a Prager you as the movie that item and I are in Israel, suppression of free speech. I testify that the USA, two years ago on what they were doing. We're Prager you videos, It may be the single funniest thing on Youtube, except for anything I am sure, all of those in a big you down and Chrome. It is perhaps a funny human being in the english language he might have in the funniest in any language. But I mean

ability to assess that is limited, Well, I'm number four and urdu. That's very impressive, I was wondering, is no urdu exists. That's the pakistani life. We went to crack the top five. You better, be familiar. That's great! You see what I we join with. I have a big problem when I appeared on stage with Adam, and that is I'm totally happy if he dogs the whole time. While I do it and then do you know that It's not even answer your question, but I just want to say this: you'll get a kick out of it, so am I going around the country doing doing events onstage and he You may not even know this, but there are times during the vote. Well. I will say to myself: Dennis they're all paying you so you should speak I feel a moral obligation to talk books. Selfishly I just rather less because we all need.

after anyway. Is it is his insight. You're just deep anyway, So what I said was the funny thing on Youtube. Was this I was at a Senate subcommittee of the suppression of free speech at testify about what's happening to Prager you, where hundreds of videos are placed on the restricted list, meaning if you have a filter against pornography, the violence. You actually can see the video, so of them was in fact one one that I given. I only give one tenth of the videos, ninety percent or other people, but I given a number of videos on the ten commandments, for example, and so set at ten crews. Ask the representative of Google. Why did you should for people Some see this on Youtube is still there. Why did you? Why did you put MR prisoners talk on ten commandments, other restricted list.

And the man looked at China, the crews and said because- It mentions murder and I remember I remember- humming the Twilight Zone thing because I felt that I had entered an alternate universe. So what do you think the reason was Dennis Amene. Obviously that look, that's gonna be bit of a pr nightmare for Google, to do something like that. So it smacks of a certain degree of incompetence to begin the night I like to hypothesize in common before malevolent so So why do you think it was censured that specifically and then why, with regards to? Is it reasonable to call what's happening with Prager you censorship? And why do you think it's happening because well I'll tell you ve I'll answer the last one first, and this will help you realize that I think, is more malevolence than incompetence

there was never an instance of the history of the world, and this is my field of study. Since I was in graduate school at Columbia, twice studied Russian was to read problem and visit the Soviet Union and multiple occasions and other and other communist countries. there is no instance in world history, Ever since the russian Revolution of the left gaining power and not suppressing speech, liberals offer free speech. Conservatives offer free speech. The left has never been for free speech let me ask you a clarifying question there, all right, because you know I can't, I'm a Canadian and suppose, along with the scandinavian countries, were tilted a fair degree to the left compared to the? U S, and so I mean freedom of speech- is in reasonable shape in. Countries, those countries that I mentioned, and so when you talk but the left will tell me more specific.

What you mean and how you would define that particular sake, because you're not talking about the Democrats per se, I can't imagine- or perhaps you are the Democrats used to be. I was Democrat. Democrats used to be liberal leave and when I was a kid in the seventies Nazis, real Nazis, not people, they just call Nazis real Nazis with swastikas. Demonstrated in in Skokie Illinois, because a lot of Jews live there, especially holocaust survivor, Sousa particularly vicious act and jewish. Groups, the ACL, you liberal groups, a democratic party, all defended their right because in America anybody could say anything except the Elk, a fire in a crowded theatre that is no longer the position. You look you're what? Why did you Why did you get in trouble and you

I wondered about that for a long time so cruelly no off. Well, if you're wondering I'm not you you said something the left didn't like that. You were not gonna, be told by the government. What pronoun you will use? Ok, let me out, let me ask another question, so when I look at political surveys, I see that There is a very limited number of people on the right that you could describe as extremists, and there is a very limited number of people on the left to appear to support the more extremist leftist propositions and I do believe that in some sense, its more difficult for people on the left to draw a distinction between except a left. is that it is for people on the right means that on the right you draw. The line with claims of racial superiority on the left is theirs obvious. we trouble brewing on the extreme but defining it exactly where it is enjoying a border round. It is so

to be a relatively complex task, and will you ask me why I got in trouble? I mean I've gotten trouble because I said well, I'm not sure where to draw the line, but that particular law compelling speech with its implicit theory. identity. That's gone too far as far as I'm concerned, but you know the fact that that caused so much, although I think is indication of the fact that its difficult to draw the line and so wide interest in both your comments about that. Well, I think you're. Do something with the extreme. the right wing party is pretty define a ball and I think most Reasonable people agree that the far this right, now, Jews, shooting laser beams into them into the sky, shooting down, satellites or whatever crazy stuff, comes out of Q honour so far right, stuff, racial things of that nature. I think we can all agree that that's pretty

fine, a ball, and that most people on the right will not cross. That border William Buckley Health, without wouldn't you say I would but on the laughed I feel like there's a much greater sense of what we I agree with our sea, but we're not going to say anything about it or we're not going to define it or this yod. So there's a man. More in I live in California, most everyone. I work in Hollywood ever ones on the left. There things sort of like we don't like what Gavin Newsome is doing, but he still our guy and will well that's part. That's part of this difficulty withdrawing borders, like I've, had conversations with Democrats about the idea of equity, apple, which is no go zone as far as I'm concerned because of its connotation, of equality of outcome, they insist, generally speaking, that most of the people who are using the term equity are

really using it as a proxy for equality of opportunity there you you're lying are there flat out lying either to themselves or to you, and and both are dangerous equity. Why if the word equity means equality. Why don't they use the word equality while you, My argument Mimi quality. What what do you think means exactly know what it means, it means equality of outcome, just exactly what you imply. That meant that ok, so it being why? Why do you think that so toxic because it means standards, don't matter, means results matter is their equity in the NBA, how many Jews or in the NBA, how many? How many but these are in the NBA. There's, no way Well, what do you mean? Mba ambition Bobby. I only want the best basketball players and I want the best pilots and I want the best physicists and I want the best stuff. Do you know that they are dropping the

I followed music. I condemn periodically I'm a variant of music, so the New York Times has advocated the dropping of blind or additions for the New York Philharmonic. no longer shall you choose the best violinist or, although wished you choose, based on the code of the viable image or almost that's equity. Ok, you have your making two arguments about equity? One is that it flies in the of a rank order of value with regards to cut competence and predicated on distribution of equality by immutable characteristics like race and sex and gender, perhaps sexual pressure All these things have become part of the cultural context and that's equity and dick. The word is being used because it doesn't mean equality of opportunity, which means a playing field itself, to everyone who strides forward and then chosen on the basis of their merit. And how would you,

define merit just out of curiosity homey again sleep problems, that's what we're talking about right now. One of the best thing you can do for the south is to start getting enough magnesium. I recommend magnesium breakthrough by Bio. Optimizing, the only full spectrum magnesium. woman that includes seven different forms of magnesium. Getting all of them in means that your potentially get to experience it's coming stress, reducing sleep, enhancing effects. I prefer this brand because there aren't any synthetic additives or preserve it I'm not like many of the generic products you find in the store, mostly vitamins, you dont absorb the ones that you get a random drugs or magnesium is something a ton of people are low. In optimizing, electoral s like sodium potassium and magnesium can help with sleep leg, cramps and energy and fasting. If eulogy intimate fast

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free. I hope you enjoy the rest of the episode and how would you define merit just out of curiosity, I think I'd sardines, but I think I think the blind. You know it's really hard to quantify certain things like who is the best oboe? That's it it's difficult, but that's why? you put the curtain up and you decide? Then you have experts. Listen, they have experts lesson, it doesn't mean they're right. It just means. The only thing there factoring in is the ability or perceived ability of the oboe S on the their side of the curtain and once you pull that curtain down you show to bring? everything into question So you know if you're, trying to hire someone new S. The laws are set up this way and- and I know these laws quite well. So if you what do hire someone bound by law. First of all, to do an analysis of the job requirements to have to make it.

Of what competence means in that particular contacts, so that's merit as defined by the job. Then you have to have use the most reliable and valid test. That's league the available that's too to to do selection or you can be or your libel and under the appropriate employment law. So now it has this very specific definition. It it sort of within occupations to define within an occupation and then have to use a selection technique? That is that assesses for that, and that should the blind to immutable characteristics like race, etc, and me that's how the law was set up for years. We see this situation where this is restorative justice. That's the doctrine Is that what you're saying I know? Why do you have a problem with that? Exactly well I'll give you an example in my mind, you know Danish brought up sports I try to think why, as human beings are, we show attracted to sports. Like everyone loves,

but why does everyone loves sports? Why is the right eating for the Oscars plummeting. Every year in the rating for the Superbowl going up every year. If you just looked at a chart of the super ball, starting in nineteen, seventy and the oz starting in nineteen seventeen, seventy asters. I think out raided the Superbowl, but it is so. Point? The Oscars, if you know less than ten million and the super also ways in our forty, fifty million. So what is that human beings, whether we responding to well what were responding to is when we watch the supervisory role we I believe that the best plan there's are on the field regardless, of whether the entire deep sense of sight of the ball is black or asian there's, never or anything or theirs

we're been an instance of the owner son, starting on the defence, our the coaches son, starting on the defence out doesn't mean? These are it doesn't mean there's not a twelfth guy who's on the bench who was actually better, but it means in the coaches I these other. Eleven best players to put out on the defensive side the ball and the offensive of the ball, and we never question it. And you then watch the Oscars, and you see a lot of the diversity and a lot of the forest diversity. You think yourself These really the best seven or eight films, of the year or our trying to conjecture it some way to open it up for things that are better or different. I should say then, just the best film once you start down that path. I argue it's a very slippery slope. We too now we lose interest in what what's the big beef on

on the Oscars best fails every hour like I didn't see, half these things and where they were, they really the best realm, and then I saw too who alone and I didn't like them. So you don't think we trust the selection process. Wanna dance. You question, you said: why did we like sports so much in ITALY, me to another question that maybe I can direct EU so think Dennis find this interesting, maybe he'll agree. Maybe he won't, but The word sin is derived from the greek word Amartya, which means to miss the mark, and so it's in archery term, and we know, people are very, very goal directed and what you see in Ports is the assemblage of teams of Excellence campaign in cooperating, does they're playing the same game? So that's the cooperation to hit the target and every time someone excellent hits the target its spires all in the audience. Why have already leaps up sort of not even of their own accord, right there possessed by the Spirit of the game, and so there

thing? That's very, very deep, going on in sport spectacle because we're all participating in the celebration of the team effort to too fast? take the ability of the individual to attain the goal, and that's that runs through sports dramatized away? That's not rationally criticized able- and your point is that's gerrymandered. Then people would appreciate it anymore, but here's the question I have for you. Why do you think that the damn Autocracy of sport is so widely accepted and an enormous subjective of public attack when there is a public, salt on the idea of merit in almost every other domain? Why does it's gonna, get a pass so to speak. I believe in sports. We would all

realize the absurdity, if we tried to mess around with the meritocracy of it, if you said there has not been enough jewish heavy weights in the last thirty years, we need to get a jewish heavy weight and put them out there with ties inferior. However, the current heavyweight belt holder is, I think we would all understand the sort of bizarre our nature of that, and we are all sort of inherently understand it, wouldn't it wouldn't work or back to dances example. If we took in a mighty, you think it's me obvious to us. I think you might be right, but I can't figure out exactly why we we seem except I mean people suffer for for the distinctive in islamic ability. I mean it's a troop of many many american films. You know, there's a the boy who would like to make football team but count and its pay,

For once, we accept that that pain is real and it exists, but we don't use that to justify an assault on the meritocracy of sport. I just can't figure out why so self evident in to say it is, but Dennis you have any ideas about that. Well, because it's more objective then subjective. If you hit, forty home running your you're, a great player, we don't have forty home runs in in almost any other area of life. So do you think it's an inanimate issue that, yes, it is a measurement issue, that's exactly right stature! These are the facts. You're, crazy, best baseball fans and telling the banning average of the first basement on the Detroit TIGERS twelve years ago. This is what live for stats, but there were no stats in much of life back to my own so so well. So that also means that the people who are criticising our society for its efforts, power base, say rather than its merit base their partly led to. That

collusion by the fact that the staff of life are not nearly as obvious as the stats in sports way would argue sorry for cut me off. Dennis but I would argue that in this particular case stats or on the other side. they go. Delta airlines has less than fourteen percent african american pilot Doubt the airlines employs less than six percent female pilots in less than one percent transgender. So if you think about the stats you we do love stats, but they get used against the US on the other side when there

constantly talking about in a police reform or the fire department- is in a mostly hispanic neighborhood? But yet the fire department doesn't represent the constituency of the of the group that it serves. You know, because it's only thirteen percent latino they they do love stats, but they love them from a side of that here right, but exactly, but those are not stats of excellence. Those are stats of of what Jordan calls immutable characteristics right at this but seriously easily measurable, Instinctively, but but yes, that's what I was pointing out about sports, but I believe that other stuff is measurable. Too leave that it is that unless, unless one there's the world of the absurd which we have entered Beethoven, is greater than any decomposing music today, is greater for that matter, then Emmi none.

German composure whoever lived there It is composers, were overwhelmingly austrian and german show. What do I care? I only care about there being great music homage I know Bognor was a rank, anti Semite and Hitler zero. Am I love vaudeville music? I dont give I don't care when I listen to music, but when I hear the ring or any of his other operas, that the men the genius so idleness assessed by that it at the University of Pennsylvania. They took down the english department, English, the prominent, an Ivy League University took down shit, spears picture because he was, why european mail and they put up a a number of white lesbian instead, nothing cause of measurable excellence but because of immutable characteristics, yeah, I guess outcomes point- is that it's easy for people to default into?

easily measurable statistics Wendy, alternative measurement systems are somewhat obscure. to rank order. Music. By their quality mean you could look at her. often there pieces are played by major orchestras, for example. But you know you could make a case that that's consequences, systemic prejudices well So you have these doubts that that signal mutable group membership that are pretty comprehensible and they lead people astray because they and evaluate the broader context of excellent so easily mean we have to learn four cognitive biases right when we're trying to explain things as, as I said before, we reach four malevolence, even though I am perfectly willing to reach for malevolence when I think it's there. So let's let move back to know, say let alone just like you would do if Europe its malevolence. What do you think is the is the justice. viable reason for taking down Shakespeare at an english department to that

that might be indian resentment? That could well be meaning? somebody interesting recently, Paul Rossi, who is the New York teacher who stood up against the political, correct incursion? the private school, a grace church, I it was, and he talk both the attraction that postmodern theory held for him when he was an undergraduate and he said he really wanted to be a creative writer, but he really didn't have the talent for it, and so It was kind of annoying for him in some sense to be exposed to all these great authors because it represented a pinnacle that he couldn't scale and then, when he was introduced, postmodern theory which protect all of these great authors, s perhaps not created all, let's say its status some vengeful unresentful resentful element of him. I mean he out of out. It was able to talk about it, but I think that I think he made his affair case as I said, I'm willing to if our malevolence, but for me it's. Alas, it's alive, reach. You know I look for cognitive biases and that sort of thing first- and I mean I think,

You look at so many people that are attracted to radical left ideas. For example, there dominantly young people not only but predominantly, and you know, they're looking for a causal myth. Let's say they're, looking for a method and a causal explanation and its FED to them. It's not a surprise. They devour it. Some of that malevolent because it gives them a target for the resentment in their anger, but some of its just ignorance, they haven't been taught more comprehensive, The point I mean you're trying to do that at least to some degree on Prager you and you're. Having some success with young people as well, which is quite interesting right. I don't I don't short the young people with malevolence. I charge the old, the people, teaching them with malevolence people who teach the sixteen twelve narrative are Mallette they load the United States and this is their way of of destroying, our society by by teaching young people that

was founded in order to preserve slavery. It's a guard, anyone lie and again I just need to say this again. I too the dismay many of my fellow conservatives cause. I read comments on like pieces on the internet, I'm interested in comments and many think, I'm a fool or no Middlesex Naive for distinguishing between liberals and leftists, but it's a huge this day and the only way for the salvation of the west is to teach liberals that the law does their enemy and not the right. That is the that is the key task of all of us. Liberalism has nothing in common with leftism and it has everything in common with conservatism. She. What are you? What do you think liberalism and conservatism have in common. Where are you

you grow rear beach. Let's begin with free speech the sum that the above this I also think and intellectual honesty in a couple of guys in this town who I know who are well, I wouldn't call him left us better column. Democrats. And probably progressive, who are also liberal net in a truce sands ARM Bill MAR and Eternity Mark arrogance other both boat Democrat? Why when's subjects come up their intellectually honest and you end up agreeing on quite a few things with these folks, just because there there have an intellectual honesty,

so, you know they that they may be on the left when it comes to some social issues, are maybe some border issues abide? They do understand governor it'll overreach and tyranny and oppression, and things like that, especially as it pertains to covered and have an intellectual honesty, a perfect intellectual honesty subject is Israel versus Palestine. If you're on the left, you have to decide with power last night, if your liberal, you can vote Democrat, be liberal in intellectually understand that Israel's not the power problem in that region and that's a pretty good yardstick. I would say to measure liberal versus left us Israel, okay, so Dennis Year, drawing the distinction between liberals and leftists. In that sense, the leftist that you're having the trouble with so here's a court

for you. So if the liberals the conservatives have common ground and they have the right behind them. So to speak, I mean the correct. Let's say the honesty and whole weight of just say western civilization, but the central civilization tendency, because I think it's a mistake to identify this reflexively with the west, but in any case law is that. Why has the left become so attractive? What are the liberals and conservatives doing wrong with regard to their the education of young people or to the marketing of their ideas Well, that's not what happened to your right. That's a very fair question. I did Jerry, search on the five embassies that showed that the black lives matter banner U S, embassies around the world five, unlike that were identified. One of them was the United Kingdom, the largest? U S embassy in the world and I looked up in each case

through. The ambassador was, I was curious, who would put up I consider a heap. I hate. The Gue group banner in front of the american embassy, It turns out fascinating leave that to the UK have an ambassador, the UK, we have a charge aid affair. The head of the embassy in the UK is a woman in the Wikipedia entry. Nobody in passing that her mother, is on the born of the New York Civil Liberties Union, an ice should that by radio Rio, and I said you know leftists We do tend to prepare wait themselves better than we do with the number of conservative parents with kids or on the left is far greater than the number of left his parents with kids are the right. But the reason is obvious there. The reason is, they have everything

kinda garden. They have elementary School High School College University, postgraduate, the media sports late night television. There is I think that we have, except in the, in voices like the three of us here and, thank God, others in addition to us The reason is, the schools were all conservative than the left. Its parents would have a very difficult time, keeping their kids leftist. Its is, it's not funny talk to two left, leaning, people in the United States they feel that they're on the defensive. They feel that they run it has more power. They point more to state governments, for example It does seem to me, as an outsider, because I'm an outsider toll of this, that one of the things that does care derives, the United States may be more than any other country in the entire west. Perhaps not because there are there are there are countries that might be an exception. Is that there is

a reasonably decent balance of power between the right and the left. If you, if you since the totality of the system mean you have democratic power federally, but at a statement here I'll make with all of the people who say that to you, the following deal will give you state governments you'll, give us alimentary schools, high schools and a graduate schools and universities, and will make that. Let's make that you get we'll, take the New York Times, make a conservative. You can have all the state governments you want. I think it's such a. They live in any deluded image, themselves and the world if that's what they believe. Oh you have state governments. We have the New York Times in CNN and the Washington Post and Colombia and Yale and Harvard and stand for, but you have state governments, please So ok, so that's interesting mean you. You believe that these

educational institutions, while you also included the New York Times and I'm not going to dignify the New York Times by calling it an educational institute, but you leave that the education, institutions from kindergarten all the way up through the universities. Have this, no power in in in in american culture. You think that's a reasonable claim disputing it, I'm asking you without a month. How could it be that where your kid spend most of their waking hours, well I mean it should be now go ahead, asking sorry I think Jordan's asking. Is it a foregone conclusion? that all the universities in high schools and junior eyes are left leaning. Ninety nine percent yet like I'd, like a mean it. Certainly, it's certainly been something. That's very disturbing to me. I think the objective evidence supports the supposition that there are over wellmere left leaning, and it certainly seems to me that these crimes the ideas,

the idea sent especially that the the structure of the way is predicated on the arbitrary expression of power. I think that's the most funding. pathological claim that emanates from the west. Is that powers, the fundamental human motivation and that our function? The institutions are essentially predicated on the arbitrary expression of power. I was thinking people who say that our confessing more than they are accusing me most The people have seen who claim seem to be perfectly willing to use power as their predominant motive. operation in the world, I guess I also ask you: why is it that the story that power the fundamental animated spirit of civilization, let's say but we'll say western civilization did just to keep it narrower. Why do you think that

we have such residence, especially given. Well. Well, let's leave it at that meeting. I have thoughts that also, while pertain to the schools, because to me and I'll I'll answer your question, but I am curious as to what are the origin of of schools and- and why are why to the laughed and not towards the right? So if you got a group and have all done it where they go. We want you to speak to a group of commercial property, build our see how these guys do tenant improvement. and they do commercial work and their real estate developers and engineers and architects and builders

know who you are talking to. I mean you know what they're politics were just a small example in my spare time. I'd like to race cars, all the guys who show up to the track, they basically have the same politics The reason they have the same politics is because they live in a world where they have to prepare further car than they have to go out and execute it, and they have to drive the car and it's a real meritocracy, because someone's going to get the checkered flag and someone's going to come in last and they have assertive collective mindset. Just like you know, People who run a small business have a short of mindset that went lesson. Regulation and lower taxes and breaks, and they tend to be Republicans. So what are we finding on school campuses well school? Who, who is attracted to be a professor whose

tracked it to be a school teacher. It really is a little slice of socialism. Here in the United States were basically saying you get a job. You don't get paid that much, but you can never get fired. You'll get tenure, It'll be an easy life you'll. Never really. Have to hang your neck out or your shingle out. There's no chance. You're gonna go bankrupt, there's no chance you're going to be at the top and there's no chance. You're gonna beat bottom you'll, just short of have a job forever, so those the people who are attracted to the profession, nobody I know whose an entrepreneur is attracted to be a schoolteacher jerk maybe later on after they ve sold their third company and have you no more money than they can, then they can count. They want to go back in and teach him business classes or something like that, but your tracking people who have a little bit of a socialist bent or leaning just from the beginning,

versus folks who want to go into the military or folks who want to start their own small business now How long would it take for those people to start in Doc, the remaining your kids out, I want to use a word that that strong, but it's sexually getting them to sort of thing. The way you think I use this example. What if all teachers were vegetarians, this adventure, Long before your kid came home for Thanksgiving and said meat was murder. It would be impossible for them not to sort of have add throughout Moses or or beyond short of push agenda to your kids, so it gotta go this way? It has to go this way because the campus, are inhabited with people who now actually Lee toward that in lean away from the honor.

General Spirit, then, once the kids graduate they end up at the New York times and now the New York Times is the New York Times. So this shall continue in my in my opinion, because its at its fibre, that's what it's based on we're talking to a group of canadian dissident academics yesterday and one of them This view mango she's, a former feminist it for English, professor who abandoned her leftist ideology a number of years ago and has become a very vocal and articulate critic of leftist activism. in academia she pointed out. Something quite interesting. That's a bit different in terms of its causal pathway, let's say in the universities: no back in the sixties. Women's studies was established and women's day, These beautifully-

about women, but perhaps it was mostly about critique of male dominance, and so then perhaps it was particularly about critique of permanence and that idea gotta toehold in universities and started out with studies, but spread to the whole grievance studies, industry and that's more or less taken over the admin strain and we know. Washed, its tentacles out into the rest of the faculties as well future english literature, in particular the humanities, more generally, the social sizes to some degree, and now increasing biology in physics. It's not Two temperamental argument: you know as a structural argument that we we we said an institution that was based on Would you say resentment and hatred at least to some degree and then that gender I used to cross the disciplined well. Yes, I agree fully with that. I just want to go back to the question you pose about power. You mean you

offered a throwaway line, which I thought was utterly correct and insightful that when the left talks about power, its confession rather than accusation alone that is, and here a massive disadvantage to people or conservative is myself as an example. Only because I speak for many in this way, I have been asked. one for office, all the my public life and I actually wants the file to run for senator California, and when I woke up her a sober, and I don't even drink, but it was. It was a moment of non sobriety in any event, I have always said on the radio infinitely more interested in influence than power. I have no interest in having power had distinguish them, How to distinguish them? Yes, because I can't I can't

the influencing you is not the same as having power over you. I can't I'll tell you that you must keep you're your store clothes and go out of business because of a virus. I, no desire to have that power, and I resent those who do and if you your influence. How would that did differ from the expression of power? or is coercive influence, is not everything, Well, let's expound on a little bit, because this does get to this course. She I'm staggered by the idea a very large minority of the population now appear to believe that the guiding Spirit of human civilization is the arbitrary expression of power, rather than something like influence or are, we're duration. All negotiators go West cannot influence, that's why they know the bade us I and the number of less this soup accepted invitations to my radio show with thirty five years can be counted on the budgets of your hands and feet

I even Howard, Zinn came onto my show. I have extended to I have said I will pay a thousand dollars to any New York Times columnist. I've been bred, Stevens comes on anyway to come onto tonight, to my show there? I will travel anywhere to debate them, but it does happen I'll pay ten thousand dollars to have any? black leader debate, Larry Elder they'll? Never do it, they don't debate because they're crappy and influence their great at power and that what they know power and so they would say you know they would say. Well you call it influence, because that choose your moral that put you in the moral high ground but you're a privileged person you're. What you have a huge you have our to a huge media empire, you can see what you want and you can talk to millions of people. You call them the influence, but we call it power and part of it

is because you didn't deserve what you have and that's consequence of your privilege and, man. This is something I believe. But how do you explain or Bruin up. I'm sorry did. I is always the long recast Jordan had to switch between the person that was trying to punch holes in your point and then back to himself show I dont think Jordan New. reply in terms of should I replies myself or the naysayers. That is yeah I couldn't come up with an argument from the perspective I was trying to put forward, I think Oprah winfrey- was success, because she's, credible and and remarkable that's that's my hypothesis, but

so so she's a token how bout that cheated toga, yes, she's a token sober its of e, the with a member of a black influencers in our societies, Don Lemon a token I mean, It is in a becomes an absurdity. After a certain very much anyway. That's it's a non sequitur. Whether or not I have an advantage being white is a non sequitur to the to the issue of aid one power over other peoples. We conservatives want to be left alone. The left does not. Want to be left alone, and they don't want to leave you alone. I want to leave you alone, except for most obvious things, you can't murder, you can steal, etc, but by and large we want to leave others alone. I know they will raise abortion, but if they don't have acknowledged that abortion is at least a moral issue,

there is an issue whether it should be banned. I fully acknowledge that, but there is no issue about whether it is a moral issue. They deny that its even a moral issue that the The human Venus is, is, it is worth less literally worth less than a hamster. There are lost tat, hamsters? There were no laws protecting the human, a feeder summits, so but other than that they can come up. We don't we don't want to intervene in your life like they want to intervene and ours. That is why the masks issue became one of police you would think it's just science by the way, if we did follow the science, the New England Journal of Medicine last year, which nobody bothers quoting did. So that they were essentially worthless outdoors and they weren't worth much indoors either. Then they went and said. Oh of course we weren't saying people shouldn't do it, but they didn't take away their original case they want the other, This issue is all in large measure what conservatives think it is power.

Not science. Why think we, fortunately and a bizarre way just live through this experiment called Cove at nineteen you're. Pretty much could divide the country into red states in blue states Sophia just sort of looked at. It is as an experiment, let's just see if we can remove the power tax of sorts from it and even the disease itself, for any knowledge we have a bit of personal people have died or people got it or whatever. It is. If you it's, if he had just sort of That is more as a metaphor. You take the country, you take the blue states and how they re acted. Denison iron, California or you could have Gretchen Whittemore in Michigan. She was tat. The blue states were telling you don't go Boating Halifax.

arrested a guy who was paddle boarding alone in the Pacific ocean? I mean that the footage is breathtaking. Its laws really a guy honest surfboard, with a paddle standing alone? Nobody within yard. maybe miles of em and about pulls up and they literally arrest the guy on the beach which obviously much more dangerous than whatever it is. He was doing alone, but You just said: let's just do a little, my let's have a little experiment. This disease showed up. How did the out of the right, leaning states ACT and how did the left, leaning stay tat. Well, that's all you need to know. I mean it doesn't need to be a virus. It's the left, snap! to action in started, doing what they wanted to do, which is control. California,

gave a new some and merit our setting out. They all jumped into control, because that's what they wanted to you it's almost like we had those rooms, and you guys know if there's any data on death rates between reddened left and red and blue states any reliable data can be quite interesting. they are there, is reliable data amber? You may recall that when Texas dropped all of its mandates, the press The United States said it was the end of all thinking, and there was absolutely no spike in cases or debts in Texas. Nobody talks. Now because the president said something incredibly stupid, but typically of the left. They dismissed all all freedom, loving policies with regard to this particular disease. We should have followed, but Sweden did, I know,

thought in my life that I would use Sweden as my moral model in western society? But the world does not fully predictable, but I think we have our answer as to which side once more control, because the outcome ended up being the same or in many cases better further for the red states, so had really nothing to do with science and it really didn't have anything to do with data. It's just the lead. I saw it as an opportunity to do what they want to do, what they are inclined to do, which is control and the right is Dennis. the debt is made tried some things, but they were trying to refrain from this sort of totalitarianism. Of of what the left was doing. What

which is total control, so it was a little experiment. We just went through it. We got the results and I I think it's it's it's pretty self evident at this point is all right. So, let's go back to the movie. If you don't mind, I we took a large detour and it was worthwhile, but are you you tell us about tell us about no spit saved his first and then tell us about you know you are your attempts to get distributed or the attempt to get it distributed. Let us start with their the movie and then Diana so go onto the attempts to be distributed. I actually wanted the reverse that's flocking, either way Dennis and I are very, very different, very, very different backgrounds, but we do have common sense in common and I've

found more and more, and I'm assuming you guys feel the same way, which is just finding someone with common sense seems to trump all the other characteristics. It were constantly talking about. You know where what region you're born Aigner, who your team is or what color your scanners Dennis, and I always have comments in common, and we struck up a great friendship. We ve done many speaking gauge went through, so it always had a great time in each other's company, and so what end the producers came to us. With this idea, I meetly jumped that it just gets. It selfishly seem like we could spend a lot of time together talking about a subject

there were, but pretty passion about which is free speech, and since the time we made this movie, I I I I feel, like things have got much worse, I think the movie was a bit ahead of its time in terms of what it is the subject matter and now I feel like it's just the three or four years since we started this free speech. Issue has gone into overdrive, go ahead, Dennis yeah a word on the movie than a word on the distribution I've. From the beginning, and I neither arrogant nor humble. I I just pretty much try to see myself in life objectively And so I have said this is a great movie it's not a great deal because I'm in it might be because Adam is in it, but the truth is the great movie,

An item and I happened to be the call in cold storage. But that's not the point of the movie. I have one this about five times. I have the attention span of a child, and so for something me riveted five times a speaks immense lay about it. It is a good. It is truly, is an important movie. It's more important today, even than the one it was made about free speech and its Movies within the movies, and anyway, people should see it like that. I'd like to point to just just as an advertisement of sorts, there's a canadian equivalent, we'll be called better left unsaid. That is faced the same sort of distribution problems that you guys have faced and it focuses on issues that are more germane to Canada, although also relevant to the? U S and so well. did they deserve a note needed done now. She must know what I'm glad you pointed out. I happen to think that things worse in Canada than in the: U s about that. That's an interesting discussion for

either another time or later on today. What would you impetus term from making I mean them? Unwelcome it'll, everyone knows about a distribution net. Yes, yes, Netflix refused to distribute it too, to stream at which is an incredible given how popular the movie is, So maybe pleas for that like why? Okay so Netflix should have been incentivize, because as you're concerned by the fact that the movie was economically successful and there Their streaming agencies to online that are very powerful, so Amazon, etc. Have you had any interest from any of this streaming agents ass? Well, it's interesting utterly out a look up. The Amazon question. I know that the Walmart doesn't sell em it's stores, though they they have the same thing, Oh, you mean really in Inn at Netflix or Walmart, or any of these is one or two people who were woke too, tell you know, we can't do this. We're gonna get a bad name.

and then you know what my mother's its netflix, not solution to somebody's, though that is primarily in it. We know we know for a fact that it was my name that was the trigger, which is interesting thing, which I when they re fascinating to discuss because ever my name is, is raised as this bugaboo. I always say what can you say anything in thirty five years of broadcasting, ten books, literally one thousand columns on the internet plus, thousands of hours of the radio recorded, say what the thing that I have ever said. Strikes you as extreme, and so there's never an example. This literally never the New York Times that a may they couldn't find one sentence. they made up something. In fact they says it Prager suggested, and I always tell me What if they don't say shed, believe the line suggested is:

New York Times. Now, what I said and then they had no quotes, but anyway the same experienced and, as you know, I now hear that now have. I know that find a thing you ever show. That is an ennobling. I love your work. I wrote the pressure what will the introduction to your biography, I had this experience as well, and then I have another thought which is I got into July. the trouble- and I got that a favor with critics, because it was widely said that Adam curl up said women weren't funny now this is perfect in you guys have experience of version, as I did in your view years ago, and the person said at the end, whose funny air men or women and I said well, I think men are either gets based on them, trying to have sex essentially, so they had.

Exercise that muscle little bed by I know many female comedians that are funnier than anybody any guy over went to high school with that then turned in you Adam correlates stead, women weren't funny, and then they just ran with it and that's up there were Well, look at its current, pretty credible what you say, because my sense is that there has been a couple. Things- I've said that have been blown up in the past ass. You know when they were. Exaggerations of the sort that you're describing taken out of context. I think that in the current climate, if You ve never said anything reprehensible on public record that you will be slaughtered for, and so, if you haven't been slaughtered for it. The probability that you haven't said anything reprehensible is pretty damn high because but our common over the utterances of people like you trying to find a smoking pistol. I don't know if you can come over things to find a smoking pistol but

I will tell you another institution that sort of been ruined and I think Jordan was sort of getting to it and it started, gets back to the oh wow, where the cello player for the New York, Philharmonic. how do you say that one film is defended definitively better than the other fell below it? It is subjective and or objective, and and or check your sorry, but you are you know. So a lot of the answers is sort of make a better film and you'll get and you'll get on the Netflix Army No better film and you'll get into the Sundance Film Festival, so I've had five Phil. All turned down from that from the Sundance Film Festival. Now, Jordan, the way Jordan's. Mind is working. Is your thinking well have? But how do you know

I mean they could know, I'm thinking why dont you organize your own. Damn conservative royal master very well in that, but that that the they academic in you is thinking. How do we define that an end? Is we spoke? about earlier, when the guy hits forty home runs in a season, that's definable and when guy drains, fourteen three pointers and apply after him. That's pretty definable. But how do we do it with documentaries? There's an while you could. You could make the case with your film that I mean it. It had reasonable success. I hope I've got is right. It had reasonable success at the Box office mean that had enough success at the box office, so it should have been economically interesting for a place like Netflix are Walmart agreed, so another system that sort of been corrupted is you used to be able to go on to the website rotten tomatoes and literally check the score of the film and

It's not an exact science, but is your film gets a score and my film gets us. or in her pretty girls score, and it's pretty good. Now, if you look at no safe spaces, the critics have it under fifty percent somewhere forty six percent and the audience has it that ninety nine percent- and I would argue where are we now? must remove the critics from the equation because the critics are so laughed and so well that there's nothing Dennis Agar could make gone with the wind tomorrow and it would get under fifty percent on rotten tomato, so they ve screwed up their own. They ve, corrupted their own system, are sort of polluted

their own system. You must now go with the audio and because there's two score search, the critic, scorn and then there's what the people thought and we now have to throw out the critic and by the way, it's a two way street. Why the films that would be an Oscar nominated film that started starting a young gay black man who was struggling with a sexual that'll be eighty six percent, but the critics and sixty five with the peace Well, you know that's a testable hypothesis. You could rank order films by discrepancy between critics, an audience and then rate them according to their political affiliation and you'd have the answer right there? You can drive Good statistician could do that in a day. Be variant, same thing to do. Can you I will write vision that go with it a day. I guess you're right, it's a great ploy by very simple integration. It's it's not only what the theme,

film as its does. It have Dennis pressures name on it, take a look at the arc of Clint Eastwood directed films and watch how they shrank in the eyes of the critics over the years since he spoke to thee. Famously spoke to the bar, the empty bar stool at the road at the convention a film about the that featured the car and in the EU, in family next door, which I really liked- I mean That'S- got rammed racism, yeah Grand Torino even by the actors that we're in it, who I thought were extremely ungrateful that my personal opinion. I thought that was remarkably Non Racist film mean that eastward was played it who was genoa, Standard, conservatively, Archie Bunker type essentially, but as you to know his neighbors. He

used his allegiance to them over that of his own family, who he saw is becoming morally corrupt. How in the world that's a racist film is absolutely beyond me, but Jordan. I think you're not factoring in your there's two factors. There is what is the film and then who directed the fell? Yes, yes, yet I that, if that film was directed by, rough allow there would be no, no issues he's a progressive after Dennis. I know you acted at. You pick the actor, that's on George cloning. If George Coloni direct dead grand terrain. Oh it be fifteen points higher percentage points higher with the critics. That's that's my search and I'm trying to do- and I say this to call analysis- maybe somebody listening could whipped up, because a good graduate student in psychology could do that very quickly. Maybe I'll have my one of my people do that that would be fun, so

Why were you motivated you guys to do no safe spaces? And what exactly it examining limiting free speech. which alone I mean. First of all, everybody involved in it, though that directors, the writers produces, were often fantastic people. People, I really admire end and the door. Originally it was with me and then very early on, they said. Would you like to do without Corolla, and the I don't know if you're road viewers are able to pay, see this, but we are, we really do with or each other and respect each other, and so the thought of doing this with Adam Windsor.

I was excited amateur doubt that I have every reason to be excited. It's a great chemistry that we have just to hear an describe. How different our backgrounds is is worth the price of admission, which he does at most of the time when we go public at a model, should give a brief review of how different our backgrounds are. Well. First, our similarities were more both over six white and that's where it ends. Ah then, it says you know at New York he's in EAST Coast guy, I grew up in north Hollywood. California, ten nessus scholar I was put on active, probation that Junior college Dennis lie accept symphonies. I like Prague, Rock he likes gefilte the fish like fairly cheese stakes. Where does it ended?

Well, what about about the religious difference? Ah, yes, he's a very religious jus, I'm essentially the atheists slash pagan, so there's again but in other things, that thing outweighs find about Dennis Eyes, intellectual honesty in pursuit of truth and again he's not interested in converting people. He interested in having a dialogue with people on, and I dont know what I don't know what happened. To that process. It feel. Well, I know what happened to it a mean, let it will let such examined, not for a minute or two okay, so, first of all, have a dialogue you have to assume. There are two people involved at minimum bright dialogue and that there is a lot. Those involved, that there's a logic there that operates in each individual and between them and the

They are of the sort that can be brought to a differ standpoint to different understanding by the mutual exchange of views. Information, and so you have to leave it. There is an individual on both sides who had something unique Tribute and who can learn as a consequence of rational negotiation and that that dialogue equal pay. This is the means to that end. If you don't believe that there is an individual. You believe that there's group identity and you dont believe that their negotiation and good will in that global exchange, you only leave, there's an exchange of power. There dialogue, and so that's why, at at least normally, why the left us that you describe the radicals, won't debate with you mean there's. No, you see it. Isn't the pay we want the liberals and the conservatives think that free speech exists, the radical ex, don't it isn't it whether or not there should beef with it. speech should be allowed its deeper than that

its whether or not there is such a thing as free speech like what you know window, the critical race, theorists and so forth say that this is that there are offering a fundamental critique western civilization. I think the idea western, as I said, is. is somewhat in error, but that its fundamental do they mean that they mean all the way to the bottom, and so one of the ideas. That's being criticized is the idea of individuals, the idea that we can have dialogue, There is logic that there is logos that operates between people, that's all on the table and that's why there's no reason for debate besides, you don't have anything to say out of mere just an expression of your group You don't know that that's just your ignorance or perhaps your malevolence or yourself serving power. Something like that mean. This really is a fundamental critique, yeah, I'm his representative construction workers threatened yard hat

you're right. You know, I think there is a circling back to Israel and at the trials and tribulations. I think we should make a mess. state in an end we run into this abroad with a lot of foreign policy is We assume they want what we want and you know, remain like everyone wants to live in peace. Everyone wants freedom, IRAN, once harmony and all we have to do, is string together, the right words in the right order and we could express that to them. So we sort of treated is if your hat, being an argument with your wife, and she just doesn't understand, and that you really care about her and lover, and so you will put that down on it reading card, and we will How right this ship repair this, but if she wants you dead

then. What is it that you could say to her that, whatever remedy that at we wicked, we could weaken movement, if that slightly, because I think you could say that it might be the case that the values that are put forward a central in the West explicitly are the most essential human values and not that's universal, but that a dedicated minority in any place can put the boats to that pretty damn rapidly. And so you know one when the foreign, Elsie idea is well. There is a desire for freedom. That's part and parcel of the human Spirit Fair enough, but much opposition does that have to run into before it's impossible in the answer might be. I think it could well be that it doesn't have to run into that. Much opposition to be in jeopardy committed minority in a committed small minority can have a disproportionate effect. I think there's evidence supporting that proposition mayors, want to come a dumb up, as you did on what the

one item said I was a student at the two instituted, the school in international affairs in Graduate School Colombia, the Russian to end the mutilations, the two I did hebrew arabic and Russian. So I want you to know that Adams analysis of the Middle EAST was more cogent then all of my professors in the Middle EAST instituted Columbia. He headed, eggs of the balls I ve, staggering error of the naive that everybody wants the same thing and that that's why, for example, I was taught the nonsense- and I thought about this on Fox NEWS two weeks ago in its own went viral- that the battle in the Middle EAST I always knew, was not about land. Is

With the size of Manhattan, they would want a distraction about land that ought not to know what every single professor at Columbia said. It was land the new year time says its land, they all say its land use when I know it and Adam knows it that one side wants the other side dead, that's it and that's because of religion because for traditional Islam there, no room for jewish or Christian for that matter. The Germany, in the middle of the Middle EAST period, individual they were Israel dead. There was nothing, Israel, Israel, withdrawal from Gaza, and all that got was come ass. They gotta me, ask you a quick question about that, do you see any hope I mean Israel has been negotiating somewhat more successfully with many countries in the Middle EAST. Now then say, fifteen years ago, tat, true or not

in large measure, thanks to where the man that is revealed by the left, Donald Trump. Ok, see you Think it's true. Why would you attributed to Trump because From said I give a hoot about other palestinian radicals. They are the central issue in the Middle EAST and as soon as the rest of the arab country saw that America was strong and bowing to the most radical elements of islamic life. They but you know what there's nothing was not all that bad frankly, and we would like to do business with it hey, I'm than ask a medic question you: why do you guys think that that conflict got dragged into this conversation? I mean the reason I am asking that is because mean that conflict. Everyone in the world there there their eyes are focused on it in a way that isn't true of any other conflict, and it serves not a consequence of the number of people who are involved there. thing magical about the conflict, and that pertains to your statement that it's not about love it's about religion and

it's about even more than religion. Who knows perhaps not, but you know what what was that? What was you think that call more sad conflict into this conversation. We raised it when he was talking about the of between liberal and left? He gave the key to his credit raise the Middle EAST is an example. Liberals were always pro Israel, the left. always anti Israel and and and that's. If you can't see the moral clarity of the Middle EAST issue, primitive verses. A modern liberal democracy called Israel theirs. Something wrong with your moral compass. Then why do you think the radical left is Pro Palestine, particularly. Why did they pick that don't know anything about the region, but I do sort of no. What animates people my feeling is, and as someone who grew up with a mother who was sort of this way

and grandmother who dabbled in communism a little bed. They want to push back against everything that is So it's it's more men anarchist approach. Then it is here's my plan at they always no one can really say that out loud, but it's it's more. It sort, Like d funds, only large river part of revolution in India just learn attention of revolution. It is basically One house has a well groomed lawn in a white picket fence and the other one has a sofa right. on the lawn and a guy smoking we stand on the porch and I only have one molotov cocktails. What direction do I throw it's always gonna go toward the house with the white picket fence. If these people are like

about. One is one of the things I have noticed about when, in my discussion with well meaning people who tilt nor to the left say than you guys is that They are genuine generally relish heavily unwilling consider the raw. Of dark emotions in political motivation, right, they tend to think things like well, People on the radical left, their hearts in the right place, but there you know their means are wrong, but what they're trying to do is to stand up for the oppressed, however badly they're doing it, and I think I had this experience. You can tell me what you think of this, but it really really- I just re encountered I was looking at the discussion I had with slavic Jacques. a few years ago about Marxism, putative that isn't real, The conversation ended up being about, but I offered it. if minute critique of the communist manifesto at the beginning- and at one point I described to the audience as a call. bloody, violent revolution, which is what it was, and there are

lot of people in the audience disproportionate number from audiences, come to see she's your kicked slots out from underneath me, and so there are a lot of people who are very far left in the audience and when I said call bloody, violent revolution, a good fifth fifth of the audience, cheered and laughed and ice it stopped me in my tracks gives it was quite like you know, I heard the I heard the mob in that moment, and you know it was Friday and moment. Freud noted that people often laughed at things that had deep psychological significance and also that you could press your true feelings when you were hidden in a crowd while the truth things were well the communist Bennett. Who the hell cares about its rationality and its justification, it's like it's a call for a violent revolution and Pa Hooray? Let's do it and I thought you, you bastards. You revealed yourself in that laugh net chilling awful,

unconscious, wilfully blind, malevolent, bleed at the notion of the picket and burning down, and the courts it is well what's generating that malevolence in the surface story is well. You got through your God means and so work right thing to do is to take it back, it goes along with the claim that power is the fundamental motivation. What I can understand, is how the hell, though of us who don't believe that have been so weak? Let's say we allowed the educational institutions to be overtaken by people who are propounding that preposterous doctrines like what the hell is wrong with us. Conservatives and liberals alike- I dont Now what did we do wrong? Well, you know what they're doing and that they know everyone's Achilles heel is a claim of power, especially power that ill gotten. You know,

your dad Wretch now you're rare NEA and then grandfather was a landowner right and then raised right? So why do you think they weave ray? into every single subject: it gets the other side to shut it up, and you don't have to prove your point. You just call everyone a racist, and we can. We can well yeah, you put them on their laurels right away right, because if you yelling about systemic racism- and I object to it- I'm instantly a racist, it's so convenient, but that still there excuse our weakness in the face of that now, then, if you your finger on something you know you said the thing conservatives as they like to be left alone, So maybe that makes conservatives particularly weak in the face of the fatal. Ok, you see, We have fulfilled lives outside of power. I am fulfil. In so many arenas having nothing to do with political power or running.

the board of Education in my local district. I am fully by my religion, as you heard, I'm religious fulfilled. I love America. I love my Judaism Island My family. I love my friends I have synagogue every week, one that I helped found My life is so rich of nuts. mention my music, but Isn't there richness derives from political activism. That then the rays of death, and as and pointed out at the term I use is chaos case. beat. Let me bug you about that for a minute, so I I have some sympathy with your argument. I think There is empirical down if I remember correctly, showing that the most unhappy people are less leaning man right? Ok, so, but believe me,

That to the side, but really not left me, don't you think it's I showed up I can't remember the data well enough to side with perfect accuracy so, but look so there's People they go off to university and they're. Looking for this sense of involvement that you just described. Okay, now the left this point. again the sewer teaching them. Let's say feeling to that and offering them a kind of romantic adventure. Now. that that matches their developmental need. At that point, that we should be the point at which there richly in cultured by an intact myth. Something like that, while the fact that isn't being provided in a credible manner is lays young people open to this kind of propaganda. So it still takes me back to the failure of liberalism and right me item four. Just being again, I just I just needed

say I have warned about this. I began lecturing at the age of twenty one. I have a very odd life and I, member telling audiences in my twenties, you speaking to them. my parents generation that the World WAR, two generation Your mother was, let's give the next generation everything we didn't have, and specific clean material, a well education and and and and peace and the problem is you didn't give what you did have. I knew this was my twenties, the my pain, They give it to me: it's not my parents, but the World WAR two generation did not give their children Americanism or Christianity, in any Oh here it manner and we, living, the consequences. Ok, so so justify that? Why? Why would you point to Christianity for

prominent, look, I'm a Jew, but it's a dominant religion of the west and certainly of the United States. If Christianity Christianity failed in Europe and we got nazis and fascism and communism. What's going, happen in America, when Christianity fails, yeah. Well, you know I've been talking to some of the people associated with the rationally, this movement and but I'm seeing there is some realisation that whatever comes up to replace the religion that they decried is going to be a hell of a lot worse than the religion that they decried throne. makes me think too. You know that we give the go ahead out of the world you get- is wearing mass outdoors and copious amounts of hand sanitizing, even when its unnecessary Emmett. That is wrong covered is taught us that this is the new religion it. It transcends science and in many cases guys I've got a jump off because I've to begin my podcast, but does I think,

so much for having me Jordan at a man, leisure talking to you, and I hope we can have on my show- is sooner than later cause I was in joy speaking, you and I'll leave in the very capable hands. If I didn't Prager now I'd I'd like you, so, let's arranged out. Ok, I'd like lays out. Ok, ok, an example of banks, let's go down the religious route a little bit and we still we still haven't talked about the censorship that no safe space has faced a b. We touched on a little bit with Netflix in Walmart That's the that's: the dominant arena, lobbies, it's late, it's completely ignored by the mainstream media which review nonsense, and this is not a nonsense. Phil look I The most important answer to all of this is for your co. Be a certain number of viewers to actually watch it. It's available online at so many vehicles, no safe spaces,

Salem now. I know my mice indicator. Has it Salem now that com or no say- spaces, dot, com or or its easy to find we have to they're. All conservative films that I watch out of out of the duty of this one is not out of duty. This is out of out of pleasure, it is it is, it is quite powerful, so the only answer is to succeed without them, but that what they are down to the film is not economically, are certainly not morally justifiable, and it gives you an idea, although I think you are, you have an idea of what of what we're living through a today. That's pretty funny that a freeze, a movie about trees, pages tat. Five discharge should mean that is in fact you could probably could hardly hope for a better outcome in some. Very you know,

First, since, at just out of curiosity, have you just what What would happen if you just placed it on Youtube? What would happen? if we just flats in interest. I don't know the answer. I would have to ask that the producer. I only know the content more than more than that. You mean just free just last week: free free loudly, wouldn't just be freed because you could monetize it threw out now that's not a tremendous way of generating revenue by it might be a way of it: well, interesting to see what would happen? Well look. The truth is I mean they have their very honourable. These guys, I haven't got the penny. Just for the record. I didn't do for money. To begin with, I would be happy to make money, I'm not anti money, but I didn't do it for money. I did it because I believe so strongly in the message on the greatness of the film about the that their first, the thing, but of was the repayment people who did invest in the film and that's her

I know that's one economic constraints. It can't be shaken so easily. That's right! There was an answer. as people will see. It is really well done, but we're living I'm in Jordan we're just living in it than it did it in a different world. Give you a great example you find is fascinating. I was on Bill Mars program you been, I was on a year and a half ago right before the lock downs I never say by the way covert, I wish they locked down and up. he's on the actual were actually the locked downs began in February or March, so he was talking about how much Donald Trump Lies- and I said you know as much. you think he lighted doesnt compared to left wing lies is really like what, and this is by the way you could see this- anyone could see this on you to my parents on his shall show

I said well, for example, that America systemically racist. That is one of the greatest lies in the history rural effect. In my view, I think it's not a lie. I think it's an anti truth. Does eyes just slip by right? An end. truth is a lie that so agreed just that it's the opposite of what true I love it. I will cite you and I will always I too, I will never claimed that I may be made up at her. That's great, so in fact, you will like that what I have said and written told you history, his reproachfully college and everyone books on jewish history. I I have said that this is the greatest national lie? Libel, so the blood love them. blood liable for those of you. If you wish you don't oh, is when Christians It was just the middle ages of killing christian children to use their blood bank Martha for pass over it.

Which was equally evil and absurd. Massive numbers of Jews were tortured to death as a result and the entire of the juice of England were expelled from the whole country. As a result of that level, the second greatest national level, in my opinion, is that America systemically racist, work is the greatest attempt at none racial multi, ethnic multi, racial country in the history of the world. And one of the region, but you don't deny the existence of racism, project resources, we ok, so why? Why do you have such trouble with the term systemic because Burma is is sort of like when Parag Obama said it's in the dna systemic. who's that desire them is geared to hurting blacks. This stem is night show its central attended. The claim is systemic mean central tendency. Yes, exactly it's built in it's just that

send auntie truth to use your term. So So let me ask you a question from the side here. First SEC, ok, I was look. your work on the Torah I've been thinking about this idea, so idea of systemic racism is the idea that the central animating principle of the Union states is prejudicial and racist to the point of of enslavement. That's the claim- and it's it's in its analogue of the claim that power is the. the mental motivation, for humanity action at least at least under capitalist conditions, let's say, but I think it's even deeper than that now, you ve studied the Torah depths and I've been thinking, and you also- that the Torah was was is the word of God. I've got that right. Yes, kicker now is the ultimate offered. Ok, so I'm thinking of the. the Bible is actually a set of stories that was told across a very long period of time and they were loop together, for

reasons that we don't exactly understand not speaking as a religious person here precisely but there's there's a voice there. That's part, of the central tendency of civilization and and it's not a voice that speaks of power through it. Ok, what does it speak of as for you're concerned good and evil its it speaks about, adjust God who wants us to be good? It is. Is it almost to the point? sound corny, Laval, my eye every every profound truth is corner. You know I mean uh, that's thou live with that. That's right! That's That's why you ok. So what does good? What does? What is the good that's represented in that book? How would you define it because you wouldn't defined it as power seeking? No, of course, not in fact it's almost anti power. Remember

I know you know this, but God did not want the Israelites to have a king. ironically, that was the gift of a theocracy. Muffin The accuracy in the modern age, but to be in Well, actually, honest. The idea that God is the ruler means that no man is the rule That's not a very recently where freedom and less power- well, that's a very interesting issue too, because I've been thinking a lot about that psychologically. Is that one, advantages to part off the idea of ultimate sovereignty into an abstract domain, which is what, religious claim does, especially when its attributed to a God, that's even outside of nature. Is that these, central core of sovereign he can no longer ever be identified with a single individual, throwing I have no idea how this I've been thinking about the analogy there with her, with our parliamentary or with a

a constitutional monarchy. You know because the queen of and under the queen of England, etc. She bears a tremendous amount of symbolic weight and your president also bears that weight and that's actually a problem. with the system. I think because, because the President, to bear the symbolic wait: there's a tendency for him to become elevated beyond other mortals mean you saw. that sort of thing happening in Rome, with the deification of the of the emperors, and if you did seems to me if you dont, parse off the idea of ultimate sovereignty into an abstract domain. You risk confusing it with proximate leaders or perhaps proximate ideas will You don't even know me somewhat budget. I don't expect you to know me well, and I just tell you I have often said on my radio show, which is now more than ever. Five years later

The overriding message of all thirty five years has been to teach people the consequences of secularism, the details, the deleterious consequences of secularism. Secularism is good for government and its thanks for everything else and what you just raised, was one of and not infinite, but an extremely large number of examples. We are living now through. Leftism is a product of secularism and There is moral chaos. Dusting ascii was right. It's just a fact There is, no God all is permitted. We we are living through it. Now, when you have sat, tens of thousands of medical people saying if you, if you demonstrate against racism its healthy after tat, goes to wear masks when we work with our dog outdoors, I mean corruption of every of every

The solution in the society has resulted in there is no God there is not only no good and evil, but there is no mass. Even I didn't predict the Oregon Education Department has announced. They will no longer be only one right answer in math. did you know that about that Jordan? that sort of thing you know percolating mighty, but no it had become designated specific. All the or only the Oregon Education Department has announced this that that the policy here from here or not heretofore from here on No there's a reason that Christ was a carpenter. You know she got his men. that's right? That's the gene yeah! Well it's more than killed right because you to build a house, you have to tell the truth. Otherwise it falls down. You need to build it on a firm foundation. Well, we don't have further foundation is being eroded.

While we are so, I was telling you about the bill Marshall, so he said so he's at all the lies, Ally's eliza doesn't compared to the left wing lies that America, that's when we got sidetracked, which is on all America being systemically racist and I'll. Tell you I'll tell you another one, a bill that men, menstruating and you watch this. It's actually, as I said, it's on Youtube and he started laughing at me and said the whole audience. that I would make up something so preposterous and ascribe to the left. This is October of twenty nineteen that tests he's audience and he wrote laughing at the idea that anybody would say men menstruating. Now, if you deny men menstruating you

a Haider and you will be removed from public life. I have another question for you about your religious riding: I'm going to talk to a number of islamic intellectuals in the next month. It something I've been thinking doing for a long time, but I've been hesitant to for a variety of reasons, not least my ignorance of Islam. You right, about the Torah has the reveal word of God, and so you know that I have a tremendous amount of respect. Her biblical writings and I've done my best to approach the meaner, humble and open attitude, trying to understand what their assuming that there is something there or stories wouldn't lie. This long as they have lasted and guided the development of our entire civilization. But there are plenty claims to reveal the truth, and so there is

obviously tension and conflict between Islam and Christianity and Judaism and they're all predicated on the idea of revealed truth and mean what you make a claim for revealed truth. How do you distinguish it from claims are revealed truth and or how do you adjudicate between the claims, because the way we adjudicate between the claims is through war? Not that's not all that for some time the EU adjudicate. In this regard, I think you would do to Kate using using common sense, you would buy their fruit You you shall know about that from the new testament and I am a big fan of that the phrase and adverse. So the Torah and an eye I do isolate the first five books, as is the traditional jewish view, is those are privileged to Paris, though the first among equals, and that is what was everything once put it this way the torah-

no Bible, no Christianity, no Islam, so since I got up, I got a better case for the Torres divinity than anything else, because everything else is predicated on the divinity of the tour, the veto a colleague rested on Yom Kippur K. So then you you make a case in some sense, I would say an implicit case that, anti Semitism, for example, is a marker of deviation from the path of the Torah, but the path it runs. from the Torah through Christianity in through Islam as well If you put your point, is it's it's the fundamental text out of which these other other seas, grew Anti Semitism is all Sadly, the hatred of the Jews for bringing a judging got into the world. People don't want to be judged.

why that's understandable. You know that people, though the problem is, if you dispense with judgment, yours dispense with value and dispense with right. It's a great problem. He adds a big problem that is, I ve been very. I tell my christian friends in the Euro, get a more prone christian non christian than me in contemporary life, but I I tell them you blew it with just talking about. God is love it it's now you know, Karl, you nodded is sitting about that. You know, because the Christ, its present in the gospels is a figure, I suppose particularly character. Used for his mercy, but in that Look of revelation. He comes back as a judge, and virtually everyone fails, the judgment and younger comment was: the ideal, is a judge and so on. Don't tell the whole story of the air. So the question is: do we need ideals? And you know- would say to some degree part of the critic.

Give the radical left. Isn't it ideals themselves are discussed. the Tory, and there is actually truth in that idols discriminatory drug at the question is whether there arbitrarily discriminatory and if you say yes than what. What do you strive for, and I guess the answer is for everyone to be equal So that so that their discriminatory ideal means discriminates against excellence. Listen now, the same crackpot, the head of a classical music at the New York Times made a list. This is years in the EU. This is like twenty fifteen years ago, an amber only cause I follow music. The way, even though this inhumane, a list of the ten greatest composers and he didn't have even have handle in it, of course, compose the Messiah he didn't have Haydn in at the Father of the Symphony industry court that and you didn't have Schubert in it and he said, oh well, you know why he said, but he did have borne talk

Aunt em had they receive it, who were fine, but they're, not in the top ten out of the way Bobby irrationally argue that they are but in any event, he said why should I I just can't have that many austrian Germans on the list. Joe it wasn't the list of the best composers. Then that's what all of this is and its anti standards. That's not look, there's an attack on a meritocracy on the idea of meritocracy right, so I mean I've wondered. Why is that actually an attack on the idea of merit and We say yes, it is in fact attack on the idea of merit I never really You know you said something it was a throwaway line. You caught me on one of mine, I'll catch in when he hears that Anti Semitism is rooted in people's. irritation at the idea of a judge, Metal God being brought into existence mean that that's a hell of a plane so

Do you believe that that that that is the fundamental explanation not be? Yes, there are a lot of non Jewish analysed, Edward Flannery or major catholic writer and earnest found the night one of the greatest clearest thinkers of the last century. They they they wrote about this. The Jews introduced this guy. The history and they ve never been forgiven for it also this Tell you. Another reason for Anti Semitism is is people believe the Jews are chosen, this is a very everybody, acknowledges that jewish chosen. This is a reason for Anti Semitism. However, I pointed out Jews are up to ten to one percent of the World CUP. damn if two tenths of one percent of the world thinks their chosen, the China I think that the centre of the world without chosen chosen and successful, might you that's correct? That's exactly right! So deep down. People don't laugh when you say their chosen. They

I believe that Japan gets the sun before the rest of humanity, even though they are the land of the rising sun and as the sun is on their flag. But nobody cares of the Japanese think they get the sun first, but they do care of just think their chosen soul, There has been a tremendous amount of resentment of the fact that maybe they are but of course, chosen never meant better, never by the way. One other thing that this is about. You got ask yourself: do you really want to be chosen by God? Well, to have you in a similar on the roofs are wanted to chew. Somebody else wants for yeah. Yeah have not benefited from chosen. This give me well, you know you might say they benefited end and suffer disproportionately, nor I got very yes know for sure sounds it fate that people would choose if they had. The option is exactly correct: ok,

let's go back to this revelation thing because I'm I'm, I'm gonna have these discussions and I need some guidance, and so we ve got no made it claim. You know that the Torres the source of these of Christianity and Islam and and Judaism, obviously as well, and so because it's the source. Well, then, what what should be the attitude of other people the book towards Jews towards the Torah Well on Christians there there's this gets a frantic view. for for many in the church and until now, the modern period, the Jew were living rebuke. As one remember, which Christian think you're said that the Jews crucify Christ regeneration just by their continued existence, so that there has been There's been an animosity in Christian is gained. Kristen them

as the Jews rejected their own Jesus was jewish, the apostles were jewish. The claims were made on the basis of the jewish. You do you think, that's distinct from a sort of intrinsic tribalism, you think is more to it than I mean. We're tribal and in a very deep sense like this. This transcend the tribalism, because a surly wasn't ethnic It was ideological, loose, theological event, the Jew g. Just comes to the Jews and the very people that he came to other ones, who said he's not he's, not God and he's not Messiah. So This was this. This created a fair amount of resentment in America a Christians were an anomaly and- and I love them forward american Christian said they were the second chosen people, the Jews with worse than we Americans or the second on which I believe, by the way, Let me ask another question: this is some one is a horrible question:

and I've been dying to to think it through for a long time. So there's a line of christian thinking, I would say at the end Northrop. I think, a canadian critic who wrote some great books on the Bible, you might be familiar with fry. He wrote words with power and theirs. second volume and wood, can't bring to mind at the moment, but he thought about DE the Torah as the the one of the sequential rise and failure of the state and that the new testament was a consequence of the emergence of the idea. That salvation was to be found through the individual and not through the state and that seem to me to be parallel with attention in the old testament between the proof.

dogma and the profits so sorely needed. Is it the case? Is there a difference between in between Judaism and Christianity, with regards to the degree to which the state is seen as a primary motive redemption. Is there? A tangled up with the conflict in Israel There are a lot of issues that there are a tangled in one. First of all, you should know that salvation plays a minimal Roland Judaism and at and I know biblical him very well and I cannot think of evil term salvation sex It seems to be more like the promised land. Well. Judaism is earthbound theirs. leave a tremendous the in the afterlife, but please minimal role in the Torah. Because, as soon as you start focusing on the afterlife, the fear is that you won't focus on this life.

and Judaism is extremely. This life focus Secondly, this is a very important point is actually that the biggest single reason for my admiration, of the torrent, Judaism, the only religion that divides the world between good and evil and up between Believer Non believer, so right. So that's that that seems to me from a psychological perspective, as as a move towards a further abstraction. Well, it's not a psychological issue, its moral issue that girl that's fine. In our view, God does not divide the world between you and non Jew or believe or a non believer, but between good people and ban people, the to the God sends good Good could not juice to Heaven bad juice to Hell. Then that's why juice Jews welcome converts but never sought them cause. You don't have to be a Jew to be safe, but you

we have to be a muslim men. You do have to be in Christian K, so ok, so So that's one. That's one example of I think that's one example of of the operation of the idea of salvation the implicit idea of salvation anyways that there's a reward for proper moral hey you're out the another level that that's right. My way to Heaven? Ok, what are you think about my other proposition is that one of the things that distinguishes Christianity from Judaism is the relative role. The relative import of the role of the state are you described, Judaism is earthbound and actually think that's one of its great advantages, because Judaism does celebrate life in a quite in a rich, and quite remarkable way. An end and glorify earthly Life and there certainly strains of Christianity, where that wasn't the case at all. But then there is this emphasis: seems to be continued emphasis on the idea of the land and the state and and then I said: there's fries notion that you know that the Torah is

sequential story of the rise in failure of the state, as as the did of salvation or redemption and then the emergence of the ideal, its foreshadowed in some sense by the prophetic tradition and Christians, That, of course, is Christ being first and foremost, among the profits mean obviously also the sun God, but a continuation of that prophetic tradition but information seems to be something like a more radical or explicit emphasis on the individual as the local of the redemptive battle. I mean, I might be wrong about this kid. That's why I'm asking you to state this. There is no states soldiers, There is still there the profits, and there are the priests that's where power reside in one hand, moral power, one had the one had called power if you. Called it got only called than a bad sense, but it is difficult concept.

and now that was pretty much it that's. Why, as I said, the boy king arose against gods wishes. So it's not exactly a big states centred religion. If you don't even want to king there Moses says that you shall appoint the policeman. and judges. In an exodus. That's it that's important we have to have. It is Judaism is not stayed centred. Its law centred, that's the right well, let's look at exodus, though, would mean so exodus. They Moses leads the Jews out of tyranny? and then into this interregnum, which is a very interesting debate. But I think because the from tyranny isn't followed by

redemption or salvation is followed by an even more chaotic state that even more dismal in some sense, which I think is unbelievably brilliant right, because we tend to think. a state of tyranny will dissolve and everything will be happy as a consequence. But the exit story says no, no matter how bad the tyranny there's going to be. An interregnum in the desert where everyone loses. Faith there's a journey towards the promised land, so that structures the narrative and it's the promised it's the it's. This idea of the promised land that that while did I'm trying to focus on and understand in you, you care, as just now is as as law part. Law, and partly that the cultural tradition that the priestly tradition. But there is this- I mean the the star The exodus of you well know is an absolutely central biblical narrative and its stunningly powerful story, but it does involve a prayer life as a journey towards the promised land and then that, in that

that being an actual land and seems to me that part of the Christians information I do think it has its roots in the Judah jewish prophetic tradition. Is change an emphasis I mean it was convinced by fries arguments which work anti semitic by the way in any great old solely sandstorm. Sounds to me like that. it's not a way in which Jews understood themselves, but let me put it to you that way. The promised land is where the the law will be. What do you use and a holy land with a wholly people. This will be gone Lois, I the Jews. As God's third attempt at making a good world the first, was conscience that didn't work this and was no one Giving him basic laws that didn't work and then picking it, people and giving them the right

to be a model and that hasn't moving south to with labour listen. I would to continue? Can you give me five minute break and I will continue absolutely fine eyes, so I wanted to ask you further. So I'm hosting these discussions, as I mentioned, with a more liberal, muslim scholar and conservative must. Scholar, and I'm woefully unprepared for it, because what the hell do I know, but it seems to me that to what it degree it's possible that all of branches might be offered when they can be, and so that's part Why was curious about the decision? of revealed truth- I mean what do we do when we have complete competing claims to reveal the truth and end apart more because war in some senses about axioms that can't be given up, and we

war is just not an option for us. In this sense, not an option. It was because they can't the saw stability of a gale. I have thought about this a great deal, so I have. I have a quick answer, but its if it took me decades to develop and that is, if criterion is not is your religion, true or mine? True my criterion. I have to one is what type of people do you produce Nothing else. Interests me if atheists produced kind and wise people? I would if he is a much more seriousness than I now do, but the sum my criterion? Is one: what type of people do you produce and to do you bring people to the God of the ten commandments. That's

if your religion affirms that God gave the ten commandments. I, I'm a fan of your religion, if your religion does not affirm that, then it may be beautiful. I have I dont disqualified, that possibility it is not divine revelation. Given that remember when we say divine we're talking about the God the Jews introduced to the world. You can't hijack our term Anne S. You can make up your own god, but the God that- brought into the world is the God of the old testament, specifically the God of the tourist, specifically the God's creation exodus and ten commandments. If you, what firm those, then you are a kindred religion to mine, and have an essential truth to it. I dont believe in Jesus Christ, but I You believe that christian to bring the world too

God of the Torah added to the ten commandments are, you do God's work Ok, so then that that makes a broader question. I mean we're not currently There is no current major. religious dispute. That's what? wide between Christians and Buddhists, let's say, and so, where does that leave non. Where does that leave religious believers who were heard allied with the central bank? of the west. Broadly speaking,. I don't have an issue. Remember since I believe God, judges, people by their ethics therefore Buddhist, if you're afraid is it is created in you, a good person and Giving you will see so you're using adherence to the to the ten commandments as a as a as an explicit description of what constitutes ethical

good. Yes, it is, but I admit I fully acknowledge put us- are not teaching the ten commandments of such aid stand that certainly not a Sabbath day by the way, not all Christians or teaching the Sabbath either. Fifty percent of the of the rope cattle priests and promised the minister's I've. I've asked do you believe Christians are duty bound to the absurd the Sabbath have said no, so what do you think about Christ was asked in it. This is outlined in the new testament which of the commandments. He thought was first and foremost, which is an interesting question right because it presume it positive that there is a central ethic that manifested EL across the ten rules that still implicit and Christ had an answer to that. Gaza. Man, yes, witches.

You know acquainted answered what what was that? What was the comment and no one dared asked him any more questions after that, which I think is quite comical, and it's one of those little markers that makes you I think that something was really going on it's because story so interesting, but mean in in in Buddhism. Is there an implicit array of? Is there an implicit ethic? that matches the ethic. That's implicit in the in the and management There are many more commandments than ten happens, Study Buddhism, England, under a buddhist professor travelling and my take- and I am not an expert in any way, but I have some understanding I think of Buddhism. This is not its question. Its question is ultimate lee- how to avoid suffering in this world and to reach

the lighter or whenever Nirvana would be would be translated Bhutto, whichever term Eu Sanskrit or otherwise. So. For example, he said, and by weight changed my life when he said it in class. It was in England, he said Buddhism teaches that all pain in life. miss from What does it desires and expectations that are now fulfilled, or even not not fulfil just from his eyes and expectations. changed my life because from that David this and I have written a book on happiness, and I wrote a chapter on this. I have no expectations and it is one of the reasons I am happy. Every Therefore, if I we got tomorrow without an aneurysm, I think on the left. he's guy in the world, so I adopted

Thirdly, got equivalent in some sense too, like subverting your will to the will of God. Is that no, my dear oh, no, no you're going to do with God zero to do with God? our concerted, pure luck. If I'm by a drunk driving tomorrow or not Sorry, sorry, those that isn't what I meant Dennis I must have raised. The question improperly is: I'd the buddhist idea. That desire expectation is the cause of suffering is that analogous to the idea that In Judaism and Christianity that people give up their own go testicle will and follow the will of God. It's an interesting red eyed. I dont know because, let's see you I'll. Tell you why you at least four Judaism, I can speak for Christians in and this was the second part which I rejected. I accepted dropping expectations. It was, it was to me

brilliant, I utterly reject dropping desires, I desire a family. I desire of cure for cancer. I off the list of desires. I have is endless and Certainly, Judaism would never want me to drop desires in Buddha- mean Buddha, reach Nirvana, but then in some and came back to bring the population, along with amendment he had desire? So I wonder it's more a matter of like desires that Eagle pray, caterer desires that are an expression of arbitrary power. Let's say well, that's great question to ask a Buddhist. I will tell you this I haven't. I did. I was My first ten years of radio, one of my shows was was as the moderator obey of three clergy, a priest minister, rabbi different ones each week and after five years I did it. For ten years I invited

lists and Muslims and Mormons in every religion on earth I am the Buddhist one night, so it do I want to understand if I have become read of it is a minute's ideal. He was among. So I knew I could ask him about a wife for children, but so I said your brother died and the ideal Buddhists respond. speak no sadness, and he said that is correct. The he'll buddhist response would be things live and things die and that that detachment it begs the question: what do you remain inactive in the face of suffering and do it

their me that day that you do with it right. But then that begs the question of why booted didn't just stay in Nevada when he had the opportunity, some excellent question. So listen, I'm ok with inconsistency, yeah yeah look far enough and we're not gonna iron, all this out and about, but so let's, if you don't mind, maybe we could go back to this is islamic issue. So what do you see as a pathway? I know you don't know the answer to this, but no one doubts, but you thought about these things a lot, and you know you Profoundly religious person and like what's the proper attitude towards peace, If I'm having a dialogue with these islamic scholars, I mean I have lots of people who view my view, videos and read my books in the islamic World- and I am happy about that pleased about that?

and you know many of them were annoyed. For example, when I talk to I unreservedly, and they said you should talk to some other Muslims. I thought well, I know that, and so I decided to go ahead. Do that mean what what what what needs to change do think within it, Give us perhaps in order for these the conflict that keeps raging so in the Middle EAST to start to Molly read itself, what are you gonna do about? I gave my answer earlier. The the day hillock ears here's a rhetorical question: If the Israelis announced we are disarming No more army, no more weapons what would happen the next day and the Palestinian said we, disarming? No more fighting, no more terror, no more rockets! Nothing while would happen.

The next day, in the first case, they would be the genocide of the juice of Israel. In the second case, they would be peace So why don't you ask that question of these people that what would happen if both sides announced that they are kept, lately disarming, while it happened the next day. Do Do they really believe that there is genocide against the Palestinians? I think there are eight times as many Palestinians today's when Israel was founded. This is the worst attempt the genocide in the history of genocide. I mean it. it is ludicrous? Is it is evil to charges real with genocide? It has be the first time in history, as I said in my my Oxford Union debate on this very issue of commerce in Israel, I said, it'd be the first time in history that, the battle between a dictatorship or a tyranny and a free state. The free state was the one that was in war and an end.

And the tyranny wanted peace were expected to it. To believe nonsense, and I M so do believe. Do you believe that this is baked into. The islamic faith yes yes about up here. I think it is ok. So what is it that big din I have been called due in the greatest arab writer who ever lived, I think, was the fourteenth century in the My Emma the introduction to history, he he wrote and he is again is considered the greatest right, or not only the greatest arab writer in history, according to wage a what was the great the age of people the great the british historian, he was the greatest historian who ever lived, and that was that was tailors that take little romantic, but it doesn't matter is gonna great reputation. and he wrote in in the Mccarthy Mamma the introduction to history that

like Jews and Christians, superiority of Islam can be seen in the fact that they were prepared to kill people to convert? That's bake then well so than where Where exactly does this leave us, let's say on the road to peace? So if I said are going to talk to these guys- and I don't know what will come out of that- maybe we could conversation with you in them. I would love it but I I'd dialogue with muslim minority. I know I'm anonymize landed at and listen bigger question to me is now: is it baked in easy? is is reform of all. And the Lord was it. The Lord acting now know another another may been worn. Acting the

this viceroy in Egypt, the nineteenth century, said: Islam Reform? Is Islam no longer, that's see them. it's not true with Christianity, which obviously didn't go through a reformation. and I state Christian. Although item of Catholics fully agree with that, nevertheless, that yes well it, but we We also dont know if that meant the dissolution of Christianity over the long run. That's correct there. That is, that, as a very fair question, I don't have an answer. It may well that the Christian Christianity really does survive. It will be african Christians who make it possible, our two or chinese Christian since its growing faster their relation, Rome guess it's very peculiar so who those right, but all right well, look Dennis. I think that's probably a reasonable place to start

can, I believe you can. I just make a plug for rug. Two things no safe spaces. The movie that three we began with an Mai, rational Bible, which written with atheists in mind. As I write it is complete. It is a use of reason to explain the five books of the Torah, the first five books of the Bible and The due to me. The third volume is coming out this year, but Genesis an exodus around and. I only wicked maybe we could have a discussion at some point just about exodus. I would like that but thou the Nirvana to me now right, Well, let's schedule it in and we'll do that, because I need the preparation I like I said I want to do a lecture series on exodus in the fall resolve all right. Well, anything else Dennis

people should only know how much I admire you. I know ear yourself conscious about that. You don't have to say a word, but I cite you often as one of the things the handful of truth and goodness seekers, I know thank you at once a week. Thank you for that compliment, for much creation. It's all right. All you till we meet again thanks again, we will all right.