Welcome to season for episode. Twenty seven of the Jordan Be Petersen Podcast, I Mikhail Petersen. This episode features Rex Murphy in discussion with Jordan Petersen. Rex Murphy is a canadian commentator and author who deals primarily canadian politics and social matters he's best known for working on and for CBC here and now, CBC Radio Ones cross country check up writing for the globe and mail in writing for the National post, he's extremely sarcastic and entertaining he's very well recognised and loved figure. Rex Murphy, my dad discussed Rex, his impressive career, canadian politics, western culture, the woke cultural wars, changes in universities, the crumbling study of the humanities and more. This episode is sponsored by relief band check out relief, band, dot com. You may be living in places where it's getting warmer and because your areas have been real

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nada, hello, everyone! It's my great pleasure to introduce all of you to. Mr Rex Murphy, whose my guest today Rex is a canadian commentator and author who deals primarily with canadian political and social matters. He began his lengthy career as the main interviewer and commentator for here and now. The canadian broadcasting corporations nightly TV news programme in the Province of Newfoundland,

he was the regular host of CBC Radio Ones cross country check up for a good, while the only nation wide call in show in Canada and one that was avidly listened to across the country for twenty one years before stepping down in September two thousand and fifteen, he has been a columnist for two of Canada's most influential newspapers. First, he wrote a weekly Saturday column in the global mail for most of the first decade of the century and is currently writing an influential call him three times weekly for the national post. All the newspaper readers in Canada look forward to those columns. Mr Murphy is one of Canada's most well known figures. He writes and speaks with a witty, intense informed, acerbic style. His capacity to lampoon, sat, arise and think critically makes him

the bane of unprepared politicians and other public figures across the country. Thanks very much for agreeing to talk to me Rex. Well, thank you very much for having way on before we get to do its job, but we say Lou I said in private, it's very good to see you and I know I'm giving me giving words to about twenty thousand times twenty three another people. When I say that, while I appreciate that very much in its it is I'm very pleased to be able to be doing this again, it's it's. It's. It's been its increasingly a treat to do. While I'm very pleased to hear that on this point treat you have the wrong person bird treat. You have only guess it depends on your tasty hurts, so I thought we might start by walking through your professional career, your career, your life for them matter of you you were born on the EAST coast

I was born alleys caused by the movement. I assented fairly. Large towns called Carbineer, my father, I worked on the american base, which is one of the five in Finland, at Winston Churchill, kind of trade to the Americans, who memory least for ships he worked there from the very beginning of nineteen. Forty one we move closer to that place, a mention is for a reason. When I was about ten, it was a much smaller town, but because I was adjacent to the base I had some american influence, even as a kid in Newfoundland in the fifties and that precipitated out reminded finnish walking around universities. I actually taught american students who won to twelve.

Naval station school. I spent a whole year, their back and forth, in drawing up curriculum and teaching canadian studies believe it or not to American gets its. It was an experience that, for the last ten or fifteen years when american politics, it becomes a dominant that little visitation until the agenda school has proved that once a useful, but it gives me a deeper context. I think. So where did you go to university in? What did you study? I wonder university to places went the memorial University. I stay there for five years. I studied English injure and I was blessed do if you want to talk to what I am pleased to call my life, I think a cardinal experience and are not just saying is that the english department, at the time more university universe, was quits

and three thousand people and by the time you got to your fourth year. If you were in and honours programme, you have maybe fifteen or sixteen June, so you, you really did get to meet and note the faculty and three or four of them, one of them in particular, better GM story Baroque over twenty. In collaboration with others? The dictionary of Newfoundland English election on this That's some silly remark: Doktor GM story, was also one of the editorial advisers for the great Oxford English dictionary. All twenty do volumes of if there was a man of tremendous talent and controlled enthusiasm, but impeccable taste and the knowledge of english literature that I haven't encountered since I know a, What is the nature of man and then I went off to Oxford. I only spend a year there. I signed up for law and action. in an ongoing darling facets. Helen gardener was the editor of dawn, the friend of TS, Elliot and Helen Garden.

We became the lecture you may be like you were wrapped factors on the EU You are right in all the big names I evasion be read a lot for that year. Second year Laud came back and I figured out. Then I've been, The school I went to a very young age for I've been going this once school or other verbal twenty a that's him. redeem your straight and I'm shouted Jakarta, just stop for a while. By the way you already have noticed, I talked too much so stop me When I ran along well good, we'll have a good competition that way, because one of the things that are common to lose that would be good. It would be good for me to lose that particular about it now and then so I have something to ask you about that particular comment. So I talk to you and me park. Yes, you and me park

A week ago now you may know the name she is she escaped from North Korea. Yes, when she wrote a book called in order to live, which is an amazing book, and the book ends in two thousand and fifteen, but after two thousand and fifteen she enrolled in Columbia University, which was a dream, hers and dream of her father that she be an educated person and she started humanity's at Columbia, and I asked her What that was like, and she said that it was a complete waste of time and money and she felt tat. She was completely unable to utter it, an opinion that was genuine the whole time. She was there and it shocked me. You know, and so I asked her very specifically, I said, come on, come on you're you're, not going to tell me that the entire time you spent in Colombia, you didn't have at least one professor or to professors who stood out who really taught you know. She had told me during the interview that she had encountered: George Orwell's work when she was in South Korea.

particularly animal farm, and that was what partly, what influence her to start speaking in writing and so, and she had read a lot when she was educating yourself in South Korea prior to going to South Korea in University and then to Colombia, since not like she was Familiar with the potential impact of- let's say the classics on on on on on her life on her philosophy, but when I pressed her the best she do was to identify a single biology class which dealt with evolution, which was a complete mystery to her. Given her background because history sort of started when her dynastic totalitarians were born, but she said even that took a wicked turn to the politically correct directly by the time she was done. So. But your experience at university Go into that a little bit more detail. What I'd? Rather you a labourer that are, you did and I suppose tat I suppose I know I brought up that university experience in the hope that when we do now

down the road and this conversation I think, outside it only that it always principle and will never be superseded outside it. only if there is anything that that contribute to the wind- and I look at things and have given me lasting benefit. Ok, you may be familiar with Samuel, since remark about lender applies to all the arts. Then it exists the better to help us and your life or to enjoy it. It fixes the mind and when you have a real university, you get these things. I d professor I mentioned, for example, when he found It was one of our customers. I'm about her name is the action Why do I was on a Saturday after now just a kid and in all of them, but he came to a little. studio or serious you now. So what are we to have this book for weeks freedom in this kind of almost genuflection truly emergent?

emerging mind of a young person is something that stays forever so that long winded again the university experience is, was the strongest. because the universities then have values, they worship and that's a good were not to be backed off from their worship. The mess creations mess fashions best styles of thought, the best scientific finesse and they made youve not made you. They induced to entice grateful to him to be grateful for What other first rate mines have contributed to the temper of the entire human race and now, When I see you, I know this, for not quite as well of you. You are professor, you ve gone through some of that. The grinder universities now at the amount is level from everything I read are a disgrace that the reason of the clerks

It is in this. They are so suffocated by these arch and empty philosophies. They have no logic and our punitive. I wouldn't, I'm a person that was so taken by the university. I almost worshipped. If and now I tell people that have younger people younger children- twenty twenty Twenty two don't go to the NAM University and I should taking science gotta would trades college or just go on Europe, It's the saddest thing that has happened in the western world that we have allowed second rate minds: political agents, propaganda, zation. As introduction, we have decimated the soul of the university and by the way I totally agree with you. Somewhere and I probably lap according it greatly Burnham down, started all over again western whatnot way. I wonder who footnote if

the first world, as we are accustomed to calling it wants to keep its precedent. I often think of students in Asia. in India in John, I even They are so intent on really learning something in indian school that maybe plays a hundred dollars a pupil their doing so much better than the school. This is holds ARBA in this game. Do then schools, in ten and fifteen thousand dollars per student. The west is true realising its main dynamic that has always been intellectual and at all

this will be Canada's heroin on that. So yesterday I talk to Paul Rossi and Paul Rossi. Is the high school teacher? Math teacher? Yes, you remember. He wrote a letter to weaken Africa column that very wise published in her sub stack. I read it right, ok, so we talked, and he talked about his time in university, studying with the post, studying postmodern philosophy, yes and- and he said that he was very much attracted to it at the time. But then he unpacked why and he believed that he was resentful at that point, about lacking a genuine, create a voice and that the post, modern philosophy that he was tall.

Gave him and the professors that were teaching him and his peers a weapon with which they could a weapon to undermine what it was that they were not capable of doing themselves and sold. Now, instead of the worship that you describe, which characterized your professors and fortunately for me, my professors as well, who taught me a tremendous amount, especially in my junior college, they they were taught a method of dispensing with literature, yes reading it as if it was something else and I suppose, morally superseding it in some sense, no absolute. The idea that Maybe it's rushing by may impose monetarism and in the reconstruction and are all those attendant pseudo philosophies. You read Milton to find out, if demonstrated his daughters, not distance,

miracle that we call Paradise lost your Samson agonists is you here However, to find out, you know, if he's a blood worshipper this whole its hold game of taking the great documents and western civilization as a hunting ground firm, moral woke offence on first of all, is cash stupid. If you have the forty it simply, a monster made omens bathed in the only reason, you're playing and his divine note you better Mozart. made over now two sexes, Donegal, you're out of your mind, self, stop this and end the idea that one of the great proportions of certain segment of western society, a simple envy and resentment of its success, even as those who were envious and resentful are making me being fed and kept by it. They go into these institutions with some sort of

childish, immature and animosity towards what do you know if you think of it? eyes of thought is is the greatest thing. We have an actor in the richest part of the world, the most prosperous the highest instead. Have you been reading somebody's whiteness things? The new rules Dennis like the one is a federal government are using to try out of the servants. You mean yes and near the epidemic of anti racism, which is a kind of racism, diversity, the witches monosyllabic, you're out of our idea. You won't have any or your raises earlier this or you're that I don't know how a free people to come so easily and so lethargic early to a kind of its is not physical, but it's a metaphysical, restrained and hours about children, these nominees universities, don't apologize for some professor, they would need to developing the New York

I'm a guy, forty, nine years column listing and in an exploratory conversation using that word editors and knowing nothing wrong with him, but antivirus universities. Damn them were the place that this this other pandemic me and why we are living through call would we should also understand the intellectual pandemic. This goes to our heart and core. We are displacing ourselves by allowing charlatans to wreck the intellectual standards of the western world. So what did your education, your education in english literature? What did they do to you and

are you, so you were one person when you went in and you are a different programs. You came out so why has been the advantage, and I also mean so. I interviewed Java willing on my podcast awhile back and he talked about going to take an english literature degree after he had finished his military training and then he explained for twenty minutes, the unbelievable potency that being able to communicate, gave him as individual and but also as a military leader was very striking because he made a practical. as well as a metaphysical intellectual case. So personally, what did this education do for you? While you were here bring it and but then also afterwards in your life will actually have fairly returned a memory for entire experience, especially at the more university. The first thing I already given the four areas:

I'll. Give you right now that I'm not usually by radical by rebel. Do this. There was an english professor, he whilst from england- and he was one of those collaborators with doktor your story on this dictionary with direct Titian named John Witherspoon. I haven't said that name in thirty five for years, but he came into my office is only my first area in the first year. We had an search the paradise lost. It was on a great epic similes in the very first book he scarce had ceased when the superior view was walking door. you sure I can do it all adapting the limit value that but witnessing as a whole. saying, oh, you should read the singers very complicated it's one of those deeply ramifying similes than only never wrote and he ran out and he had a good voice and even under the mental illness, is a very difficult thought, but

even though it was difficult. The sound of Milton is the genius of the Orange sensations of English verse even better than Shakespeare, and I'm telling you dealt with here. I am when he had finished at I haven't heard of it s about. I was I we had very few books and I was growing up. I went over to the library because he similar, it was so exciting. I had to read: Paradise losses, wasn't prompted by anybody else and I can repeat instances of that kind. Word: a sharp principle, being related or the beauty of a dimmer. Underestimate aesthetics beauty, homage precision the ability to find words that have depths. meaning that echo their own etymology to marshal them. patterns of order and the intellectual aura that comes and one on our little tiny and no doubt give yours I when we read

I'm, not a lot later agenda. John DOE La poems are extremely complex. The so called metaphysical, but their intellectual in a real sense. Darned understand I remember wrestling one poem of John Duns Ramona Day men only following the dim light, but in the sun, but was insane thought and I find it got it. I still see the light bulb over man in the library and other as I come from out port background. More or less in a cut off culture does not a criticism just fact. not, as I said, a lot of material growing up in the house, and then the sun is like a series of of the I'm explosions in the sector what university did and I think properly so by their example, lesson by their preaching the professors deny.

They really did value language, they bid value the did the great resource of poetry that that do exist by the way over the centuries, and they also said they also taught us courtesy and minded. You can have your disagreement, but among the other material at hand flogged amount of year. If we want to talk about John Milton, you talk about his poetry, you talk about it. We want you to tell me what this proposal very view loot, but you don't go into the poem to find something that in some sort of deeply infantine manner. Offend you now when you right now, rise lost, our listening. You criticise you and I Once again, my buddy I hears what to do. I memorized a lot and that's it, I would recommend to all of the people who are listening to you and they do this and to you that a lot of education should be just that Jimmy civil retention, put poetry and proposing your head and in your heart the problem is the point

I agree with you that learning by heart is more than just try phrase once you put it in their. It expands your person. answer your question now directly. Differences is when Calloway image over that's standard for the age. When I came out somewhat something that was permanent and as far as I'm concerned reached had the most enduring value outside of, as I said, domestic circumstance tat. I remember how it still here, so you ve taught us a fair bit specifically about poetry, and you just made a case for four memorizing it so that you can you outside it, and you didn't recite something. I've often found it surprising and and remarkable to hear someone. I haven't memorize the lot of poultry and I'm I'm struck not in

frequently by someone's capacity to recite, there's something unbelievably impressive about it, but you're really making a case for first poetry and epic, poetry and second for four four memorizing it not so. First, let's go to the poetry. What's it done for you, you talked about aesthetic experiences first, so that was a market right. These series of benign explosions feel well, what's it done for me when the one of the great things has done for me, this is this is consistent. being correct on this. If you re Oscar Wilde, it is these reproach writers, I wonder Pater or Samuel Johnson or Sir Thomas Brown somebody later essays of betraying bigamy, Charles Lamb, you'll, never

as well as they and understand it. If your, if your inclined to do this right itself, but my God, they set the standard, they said you some youth. I can't do that now in the back of his family. My best in the morning. The best modern prose writer never be able to write a sentence ikebana, never, but having read him I am ashamed of shame, and I'm sloppy or lazy, and you always aim at the high ground. I wanted needed. It set an ideal in the mine and words right away, a very precious things I mean you teach the Bible in many ways in the met, my mother's department, obvious spiritual regime, is a textbook of the highest forms of language, may even put it before Greece, but it's it's a standard it give you a wrestling match. If you read it, back of ESA and there are some and then you look at

when my guess I'm stem scribbled column you're still trying? I tried to find the right word because I've been prompted by all these people every before and our legume dead men, rotation, there's one that does you can get meaning you get the meaning of the line or the meaning of a verse bloggers. There is a secondary engine or energy attached to poetry and great crows, and you get into your minds on it. You have an ideal into your living sensibility showed, then some weird osmosis it will live your style or your attempts. and the second thing is: if smashes autonomous brown How do you do if you have a model of of high prose, and its seat in your head. You I do. I do. Nor several lines, but I think some, our other. It contaminate you

This is a more do use and in the break, but it contaminate you in a rich way. You'll get something from a disaster, matic imitation that will only take place if you have lodged in your cup in your car, just one final point. If you wish to memorize poetry and things your best years, herb fifteen sixteen. five, whatever you learn them, learn by hard. As I call it, I can give you dreams hamlet, stay, it's a lot harder, memorize it fifty or sixty God knows. Suddenly, I hear even say

I'm not gonna get your this is about, and we know it's exactly right. It's exactly right and it's! It's definitely not rambling, and maybe that's because you ve been infected with the poetic spirit I mean I have to. Let all are reader or listeners in watchers know that Mean Rex column is very, very influential in Canada and it's not least because of the manner in which he crafts his works, and so how much poetry you know by heart. You think it in I'm prime isn't. Is that sound like most of his most members, all of John Down, because his poems of apart from the immortal Let us all it was a very Lombardo songs and sonnets de LA poultry Anders you saw the Divine sounds agenda where Marvin sings saw so also is, is his sermons. I wish it were read them today, just from the glory of the rhetoric. It's it's it's phenomenal. I mean it.

phenomenal? I read a lot of milk memorize most of the sites. You thought, as ombudsman, Saint regularly by Saints was born thy scattered on the upper iguana. I met. memorize. The ones that most impressed me and I have Impact- I listen to Richard Burton and we'll go on record and after listening, but who s the east, This way of illicit five six times and love your mind, it will ever go out and solid the recordings in those days you get, the seven ages of Shakespeare would feel the media, but is infinitely nuanced, articulate No one could speak a word better knew a sandwich we wanted the easier to remember horses. Music music plays in your head, when the sun on Irish, something enough on the record that that'll be alive twenty five years able to memorize poetry. Do it when you young and watch memorize debt period becomes permanently installed,

it's a new recital. Would you recite something for us come unstuck, God you put me on the spot, but I just I just started with the the Milton Holler examined me when we thought I saw my lady smells at Saint brought to me like access to some degree, the jewels Red Sun do her glad husband gave rescued from death the pale and think and let the thing there is. We thought I saw my late espouses saint. That was Milton sector. wife brought to me like AL, says too soon the raven their ears it needs a place to stop, would see we're doing this I'll sisters was a greek woman. I forget that they be her husband's name. Your husband was told any was shortly to die and he was very young- they were both friends of Hercules, and so Marguerite came to their house after the wife had died, but he didn't know that I'll asbestos had died. And didn't know. House was in mourning, and after nine days of

He's doing is only Hercules good, Methought family did the husband came and told him the story that he had been told by the gods and he was gonna die young and he went to his parents and they sent me said to them You aerial so never give you take my place. You will not lose many years, but I will be saved and its parent turned him down and his friends turned down and I'll Sesar is, his wife would only the meaning asked she submitted yourself towards allergy died for him. So when Hercules heard the news had I been treated so early. He hercules he determined to repay the husband

only by going into the underworld. He picked asbestos away from these and he brought him back. I think it possible savers, everything, but he would not be one of the major to surprise so he put a veil over the returned wife's face and when he came to the husband, if gradually undid the veil and gave him back, from the dead his living life now go back to the copper sentences. I gave you we thought I saw my late spouse at Saint brought to me like out sectors from the grave there's a few. What I've done her face was veiled yet to my fancy, site, love, sweetness guidance in her face shine as enough. I would merely like to sell a Milton throws out out zest, as is only one word: here's an entire train, secondary thought in mythology, just in that one middle line? This is why you would study him so that you get in

mendous range in depth bomb in these on its own Stu methought. I saw my lateness about the state of Israel more by slaughtered scenes with loans. I scattered on the ombudsman to educate structure so that we can do this all day, but we also need well it so interesting me to me to see you reflect on your education and your poetic education, given the track of your career and well because its pride, it was also so practical am yell at me in here. you're making a very strong and personal case for the utility of english literature. Now you said you grew up in a house that didn't have a lot of books. I'm not making any depression toys. We were whenever Mister meal, but we didn't know once in a while one of those readers, daddy, condensed milk, my father Mary, would get them on the basis of it. In the school we went to the library to get this

many of the lives of the saints I'm gonna aren't gonna see on the edge of the roof. Five or six by the time I was studying. Forty never minded the novels and drugs George structurally, sadly little Macgregor in those days. But it was only when I got university, all came on devoured idea about forty, no twenty courses in those that twenty bosom Ba do, fourteen or fifteen they were English Ivan added a couple of subjects: English studies fourth year. I was up to seven when you did five year in those days, but in the universe, Do you, like. I told you about the partners larger gourbi issue until the libraries picketing much wanted, and those you walked the stack, so you would often be prompted mainly by the title of a book Figaro donor. My But that's not unusual in London but another is another education. When they looked one is really blame back

whenever we miss soundings was catholic about it. none school presentation, sisters and one of the benefits of the gathering education was catechism. somebody had to memorize Rebecca, does again the buttress catechism. You had it for seven or eight years continuously Mostar, who made you got me you. What are you making? The no love Mayer on earth and after a servant in Berlin, have got more complicated as it went through how you are being caught religion, but when you got old enough to see it, It also had taught you slyly logic, because it was a question. I was a Catholic you catechism how do you know that there is a part of your dad rig long economic? Do that will do a great long answer to that? Is that if this is necessary, then there must be this, those into perennially teaching you logic and because it was using scholastic terms. These are all books, it was. It was basically Billy Year vocabulary.

detention do we often get the best benefits from certain kinds of learning, inadvertently ants and insidiously benignly insidiously they come matters. I never understood why the catechism held such power, but it would just at was Essie writing to you didn't losing sloppily loosely. So what would be looked upon, ordered teaching them wrote? terrible, retreating, my robots, are you never know what's going in and the chemistry that forms anyway Interesting to me that you're that you're making the case for it as an advanced form of imitation yeah. I mean when children play when they play being a dad. For example, when they're playing house they dont mimic. The father, but what by which I mean they dont, precisely duplicate with their body, the actions they saw their father take what they do is they view the fathers actions

ass, a broad range of situations, and they extract out the gist, and then they embody the gist and that that play development incredibly important and its based on a very complex mimicry, and the case you are making is that by embodying the poetry which is to memorize it that you are also, also imbibing the gist essentially offended you so there's a living spirit there that inhabits you as a consequence of the of the of the mimicry and I've never heard that case made before it makes sense to me, because course, poet, poetry, especially declaimed poetry, is a dramatic art and So it is a performance even more than that. It's it's incantatory in both senses. Here's another! then this is my ears are better key to it. Here is alarming, And again in our lammle, so it is the rather more on her using sweet with charm of early is birds. Now you know what a charming dispel it cast

He uses the word another basement, my maybe in Chad. We speak of of poetry, and he says toward the charm of early retirement song, but the gin that song and charm are actually China knows that when we speak of charming, we are speaking of an invisible power about more and when we speak of the problem, in container your spell we're doing the same thing. There's an already you? U lucid, slightly different terms, we bunch you absorbed there's a she's dead there are some some part of them order of your consciousness, but only if you imitate the best, because only the best contain this regular hairs are also only were battery UK right, so I'm gonna have to think about.

That's more will return to it. So you took an an excess load, of course is what did your parents think about your choice of universe and when and how did you manage to I? How did you manage to fortify yourself psychologically, let's say to go, commit yourself to an english literature degree well, yeah. I was very young. It was the house Rock. I had a nice girl dearest. There was a little bit of the parent and it was only in the university, but it did. It came on his own The might of my own metaphor will very sudden powerful attraction and action and the more I got into the mirror. What but ass? Gary wasn't there was another done, an Iphone factor cause you D spoke of parents and seeing that that's the territory that you often enter

volunteer, but am normally I wouldn't my father. He gave them very hard. Certain sense, mother, not not alive, we're going but basically got the rate two or three in Newfoundland? I was smart man, anyway, I did all sorts of hard work winnings teenager when he finally went toward the basins as dishwasher much somebody, the landing american base. He knew uneven where he was again one of these stocks, which are much more appreciate and gush merchants of the day in the old provocation, the thing largely new and they never made a point of it that it had he had school. Could he have been able to attend a real one? Then and this facility minutes gave my way. I wasn't language even

it was not a reader because reasons I'm giving you he had a taste for words and an compressed experiences and one or two very well educated Americans, and I think that, just by being there with him. Now How much? I think it must have been re paying actual. I know I got much. He knew that he had missed and how, how he'll happy to hear that were his ambitions, button on education that it's seat down to me that getting one was just something for Mitad Lee insistent, and I suppose we all you say appearance. I suppose I was trying out of some sort of devotion to kind of by surrogacy, pick up what he could never have gotten because of time

certain sense, nor would it would also imply. I would say that he at minimum didn't interfere with the manifest nose out of that spirit in you and I suspect, would have encouraged it. Both parents had great believe and wondering I loved the already by the way we bringing back do your books, if you don't make it through and assure you redeem digits. My mother was like airy, my father. They had a justifiably dutiful respect in some of the more ignorant instructors that we're in those presentation schools, but they know There was one way up and I am not speaking commercially mastering with something attached to the dignity of the person. The apple Judith personality only gets release by trying to imitate, listen to

walk your mind around the minds of other people whose minds are better than your own and that's what philosophy manager I would expect your specialty. It is always those who would have thought more neatly more profoundly and I have a better equipment that give us thinks No that's! Why am I right back now new university? That's why so deplorable that this is this is this? Is the gist Alexander George? This is petty fascism, Wilkins, is suffocating the number one energy of any free society zone. How do you think your parents, it's it's interesting? How? How do you think your parents developed that respect, and why did they hold it? What are my father, because he was certainly bright enough, to know when he heard other people unsheathing chiefly now the Americans would sophisticated understandings and sophisticated

He saw the goal in the rift money. He never had a chance to reach sure, but then he and he was willing to admire it rather than to be resentful about it. Absolutely would would listen to these people, he would remember amateur sharpers lines yet a great sense of humor. Muslims. He was himself a very good talker, motionless matters moons and they often have a very good sense of humour which Appreciation for words, while a guy. I think I that that is the second context. I do remain the elder guys that I knew and not just these folklore stores it'd take a talk about gone into by a plugin tobacco and how would you spellbound,

that's our asylum thing. I've noticed about extremely intelligent people who aren't educated yeah. They have the facility to dramatized their lives. That's really quite spectacular where I grew up. I had friends who were really not literate, a number of them. But they weren't stupid and they could spin story man. It was impressive and in a way I couldn't and in some sense I think I lost the dram at your sense of my own life because of the books I had been exposed to, but they were very good at that. Your point. I've made this myself. You might want to tell us That is a whole lot of a little move, a man who's. That may well be that your joy, but do not think I do not think that do not suffer the most Bert verbally, intelligent I'll, tell you as a friend I've done? I don't hundred two hundred documentaries and I did a document, the new land fishery twenty five years ago and America,

Lancer metals, fishermen hard case heavy drink. I guess I'd I'd, give him a great to array three. but he walked out of his house on a cold fridge February Saturday morning on the with the with the wind coming off the water and the air flaps out, and he gave me an answer tomorrow. my questions a five minute area. It is, I can you see that, moreover, there it gives me is it not only godson a tear me eyes how it began, and I tell you hence I Shakespeare going on that was the most that was a most verbally charged little. I ever put on film for ILO evenly brought it back to national people were coming into the edit rule to watch this guy and, as I say, in any event the I gotta know his words and

it's another one. By the way I always admired, I think them. We call him a damaging nonsense. so the smartest people, I know, probably couldn't find your name, but by God of you, if you, if you ve, felt them. If you, if you move around them, I was always afraid of fishermen, because there are always smarter, not all of them, but are we doing about? We want them. You have you better. Have your toes anyway! I'm gonna be ok and you took an excessive of courses at Memorial You are very highly motivated. What about your peer group at that time?. nor do they were more or less again. They had a bit more. I think commitment to the idea of real education is I'm calling then, perhaps today. I think that a lot of just going for the credential manoeuvre

get back rather more than the czech government ancient up there. I will save only thing about undergraduates that I've observed it because I loved teaching the undergraduates I had contact with they would come in class with a veil of cynicism, and sometimes that was well we're doing this for the greater. We have a practical reality in mind, but if you could get under that and communicate something to them, that was genuine, genuinely philosophical and meaningful. They would drop that surface. Well cynicism and dive into it like people who were starving. Well, if you will forgive reference back to you, the explosion that you set off once during their contribution had propel you and into this world arena number of underwater cynical minds. I told you when you- and I had a previously We are on that silly channel that I have. I had this.

I'm gonna name goes a mummy, embarrassing. Fifty five year, older, working, really hard the nobly money and actually call me up the guy had met you or anything. I call me up to say that I am reading Jordan beaters. This is if, if the teacher, if to guide, offer something that is real debts, dignity, spirit points towards you are better than you are speaks honestly in there. Other than that only advantage is something of a higher value. It's like, of course, your lesser in relationship to it, but it's what you could become out to offer people what they could become is best possible thing. You can do for them we are seeing again, maybe Miss Garth Drives got engines deliberate, would involve there is a standing. Champion leading something

a rebellion against the degradation of analysis and thought and Andy casting aside, of culture will there. It is your it and you have by example, out through the great tribulation you. Even sellers do a lot of people and I think it has a lot to do with something general in the year. There's a lot of suffocated binds because they feel the walls coming in that they wonder if there alone, and then someone goes by and still some in some cases laughing in solving some, very obvious things, but with a lot of thought and energy and commitment behind it and No, I didn't have the world's arenas refilled waiting to hear his voice. That's pretty good! Bye. you went from memorial to Oxford. How did that happen? I wonder old scholarship. There was no land because it had been

You call us or you would erode scholarship one road scholarship sixty eight. and again and was a bit. I thought I wanted to study law. For some reason, when I got over is as I think I told you before we started Here- I entered in the second year studies that any break trust, landlines temples and we D assignments, but you're at Oxford. You got backwards, you guess I'll, raise lectures on Englishmen just some of the energies of sovereignty, prime managers, of some of the great voices as I Helen Gardener was TS, Elliot's friend for God's sake and she's, giving elect You're done she ended done thousands out, so I became completely absorbed in. I did the last stuff, but I say

more time reading. I never read this much in my entire life. What was it like for you to do? Go to Oxford. Had you travelled at all? No. This is the first time you have been to Europe. I mean the reason I'm asking it parties, because I've met some very educate the Englishman, like Stephen FRY, and it's only something to meet and educated Englishman, because they have a depth of education. That's just quite zoning and its sole. It's so impressive! When you see it manifests itself and I've been fortunate enough to talk with people at Cambridge and Ox Oxford, who are scholars from the old school, let's say area, so it's so impressive to watch them talk and to watch them thinking. So you pull yourself out of Newfoundland and went over to Oxford. What would how old are you and what was that like? I was nineteen. I think I will do the rest

that very early. What was it like I'd hand as, as I mentioned five years, a memorial studying literature I shouldn't kept out about who should have picked up a d film stayed away from law. I met like you did. I met some extremely keen. Mine's, another guy, the player, Galactica and reality I met him in all fields and that was the only advancement, me by then maybe I'll admit younger. Nonetheless, I'd, settling pretty well to english teacher was that the cap dragging me well as ours. say. I don't think I've ever read more in a single year, then I did that year there now that's the thing about university and I suppose also about those english universities in particular, because you imagine what the university cause I've tried to think. Well, what is the university of part of it

while this it's this continuous conversation across centuries, part of any of the ex exposure to the greatest thinkers and and four for the purposes of mimicry. Essentially, I believe that central to it, because you can pick your peers in some sense- that's what you do when you read great books as you make these people, your peers, at least in so far as you are capable of I really do end and but then there is also an identity that it provides you with this you're, a student you ve got this year. I let's cut out, and now you can go, throw yourself into the study and and society has built a war. Around you that sell you, as you can stay in this room and you're good real away were happy about it. Well that that the one thing I will remark and potentials it sounds in one area. I was a little disappointed. I thought because it reputation inversely

that would have a surplus. He would have an excess of overwrite people. Listen to lay quartet's Beethoven as they got out of bed, I had a false notion that reality is often just data day, and while there will be exemptions under were annex but people and so bright tat. They embarrassed you if you were standing in front of them. A lot of it was perfectly architecture and grounds which first class was nice to be there as a condom, but the intellectual level, as is that I probably didn't get out as much as I should, but was I near the libraries became enthralled and that's the same was enchanted and charm. I keep reminding people at the art. Art has magic, well. I think it's really useful to point out the connection between those words because they all point to the possession to the house we beeper

asked by this year at which- and it is the Spirit that inhabits the university when its properly conducted. Yes, the spirit that that manifests itself as the creative and community- of conversation, that's gone across centuries that you can now immerse yourself in and become a part of, and there isn't anything better than that. That's that's that's as good as it gets. That's also why it's a wonderful, often to be a university professor, a teacher is because can play a role in transmitting that to young people who will benefit immensely. But in all possible ways whispered. True, also true again, I'm sure you have because you're Indian read the context. I've met two or three it almost compare them to some of the great medieval monks you meet Two or three people were so completely ignored in in the dignity of learning from the past and pursuing great minds truly

learned people there are almost always in a kind of personal oyster, but there's one or two or three in the course of a lifetime in you saved, or so we almost firstly about the human being. That gives to inquiry to learning, to read development and and fulfilment of mind and You just know you're in a very special way when I went to teach at Harvard in in the nineties, and I was privileged to have a position there for five or six years. I guess and Harvard pulled in senior professors from everywhere who were at the top of their profession, and so there was a handful of senior psychology professors there. When I was there- and it was wonderful to talk to these, people had never been anywhere where there were,

anything I could say that they weren't familiar with amazing. There wasn't a topic. I could possibly bring up that these and it would have been six or seven people which is actually law. It was a small depart out the sea. Your family were absolutely outstanding, especially the older ones. Can they word only great psychology, They were really educated and so and they were afraid of ideas at all and high mine ranges across ideas and the idle often encounter people with whom I can have a conversation about one thing, but definitely not about another. and I just never ran into that barrier. Among the older senior family members at Harvard the junior family members were impressive in their own right,

hadn't had the whole matter of a lifetime of study. Yet you know they are headed in that direction, but the senior factly were were remarkable and you couldn't help but be immensely. What would you say do too to be possessed by immense respect in their presence, and it was a privilege to be. There was initiated a further problem today that if the university become proselytizing and semi political, agitprop, wantonness knowledge garbage, there is still a lot of joy. I mean really interested you, as you just said, Lily when people under better than you That's a great things in ITALY is such a pleasure and you dont am who last? As you said, we were given freedom. Do this, sir, and get credit for it as well. Advance in society, but the simple joy of taking in

patient in the humanitarian no signs has its ecstasies as well and probably even more powerful, but to join. The matter is that you, as you said you you're talking to Charles LAB, I offer when I read his letters, a very hard life I taking rate I was own. I'm allowed not allowed on capable of reading when a person of in the early nineteenth century, actually thought and now with ease, the room, that's great privilege to worry absolutely there. We throw away so many things that are at our elbow and we we search in vain for things that are twenty miles away. It's awful. So ok, so you were at Oxford and you were there for one year yet one year and then what what happened next well, he found a very foolish as a I started. Thinking about it, I went to school at four

I've been going ingenuously. Oxford was the six year universe, any of us. and when I got home, then overland during the summer break, I decided I take another brick and ass. If, when I saw you, I gotta stop going schools and there was a jobs when it goes. Some aging. I went on emerging Mason, taught some american kids and then literally and I know the meaning of learning I stopped into a radio station in Saint John, when I was doing some work on a master ceases just idle worth. I had no money and they gave me job for the afternoon the nose on Monday they signed me up for a month filling journal. The for later I was working. Its abc saw her. That's it by so called career was, is accidental looking into that notion goes out. A friend there needed a bit o my took on the overall job no assurance and is

no the land over last year when I and started to write editorials radio station and why you. Do it. What like why we talk about your education? Obviously, that played a role and its accidental innocent. but I mean you been preparing to use words for a long time had so I mean it was an accident waiting, happened in some sense, so you walked into the radio station. But what was it about? What you were capable of that opened up the doors? Well, Enough, I had another advantage of nuns. Large part of every nerve under the weight of problems and I'm not being prove you are perhaps not perhaps not and Neverland politics. When I was growing up with the politics of this. rather was legendary, reassure joy, Smallwood, he'd models, indyk veneration Mackereel I was he was another Otto died, acting as an under self taught man

in the old sense. Oratorical Khatami done. This kind of oratory and moving on politics is, What a and entertainment- and I often said, I've up- I'm wrote this: did we put up? Would it make on the plains? It gives us continuous, amusement the land has whether in politics, and they both exists as a form of conversation in. and my father left, leaning speaking towards lifting the joy, giving some great tirade does loved than this one swallowed let loose and lots of men as well. It is a verbal culture. I have no doubt whether whatsoever, whom I never met journalism per se are never spired to it once render? I found it in view of forgiveness, of undermining easy and natural that you should write things I didn't think much into writing by not being shy. Nothing coy! I always because to

apples plan, o Brien will be yet another one math among met him once you twice and these were masters so there was always a kind of not a chill but a holding back, but as you get older, there's not much, they're all back anymore. So now he was you, don't know it just happened. I didn't another thing we see that he were not programming reference at the very beginning and the net for seven or eight years. The whence you view other places but always came back and obviously wants. I came to Drano, were in the middle nineties. Isn't that twenty three twenty four years this has been the kind it was most furious commitment to the cause. I'm very, very lethargic in thinking of it. In terms of any great seriousness, I like to think that just as soon you are amused at something, as in a right,

there's not much difference between those two things very drew very true. So ok, so you were you were working at here and now and and how how often we're? U broadcasting issue. every night. I didn't usually one or two interviews, and I also did you're much briefer. Days ass. It did. I was the only one who did actually commentary due to two or three week I wrote like uncovered renewed, Concerts for certain national radio programmes will write. Reviews of concerts, honor fired a lot of a lot of fire,

four irons and lot of fires, but a just and more a hobby, your addressed an easy work. Why couldn't find it? This is the guy something you were back. Please do we billions paying you rent and that's esben journalism to me. I do not have. This is high compulsive sanctified idea of the great versus the germs of the earth, you're, the only people yeah, I think, can be put in competition with politicians. There are certain exceptions: adding Glenn rainwater were it not, for example, unless I'm rate months in covering a lot of the miss truths of journalism, is doing a great job, but it was there. I d I did enjoy doing it. I like politics as a drama and does therefore- and I like books, so you could a gay I did open as well, so around just came together in an unplanned, but my

inertia than taste something I stuck with this moment, I'm talking with you, and so why do you think you have public appeal? That's really the question I was always chastised in the earliest partner, so called racket. Why don't you I've ever ready to one one calling for the radio station utter people read it when it before I get to and they ordered state shoot. You call me, and after gee I p, I write The is announce a red and eight. I did this come and he calls me into his office you some of us all, It was all in informal conversation. I gave him the gist of what I had written, structured, vermilion answer. He lived amateur. Why can't you do that? All the time

That was a problem with that. Wasn't problem, it's easy as well. The jet telling me that you can't write like that too too. I have two totally different understanding of communication. Here's another one. This is it's true, I didn't really savage. Seeing one item then move and I need to be much more savage income in the delicate attitudes of Toronto CBC. Believe me, you can't even draw blood where have you had scale? Do you think I'm a consequence of it being a fund? Fundamentally a working class culture Newfoundland, your explores more, you actually tasted more reality. It will. I know where I grew up with a working class culture and it like that. The verbal barbs and exchanges were quite brutal. Generally, very, very funny at all brutal when you were in my case, Did you get when you alone in the in the island areas. The bravest lightened who went to next morning. I almost got J D gotten times, but to go back to this one point about communication,

I need a savage sing. Tat mercilessly lotta phone calls goes a ready reaction when it came to see me see one. Only one of the means was there and he looks at me erected at the boy said. That was some going over there. Last night. I saw it as he said byways, whose side are you on point communication, even when it is verbal powers, a lot more tone. I tell you, your sensibility goes under the text manner of delivery. This gives an index of words go. I've had people from Pakistan and don't give bullshit, Pakistan and Africa meeting the calves of calves of

onto an. I know they can understand this goddamn yet picked up the English. Ok, don't come back with any complaints, and they say: oh tat was so good. It always reminds me that even was hyper Vermont might be in certain ways that deeper immigration, especially in the mass media that has never taken out what I was by their standards? Do you hi style, your community by your manners by our eyes? Well, that's why you said that you wanted that's one of the things. I think that that makes you somewhat singular among canadian journalists. Is that not only are you very able, with your words and witty with them and powerful with him, but you're also markedly a dramatic character and

I don't I don't know exactly how to separate the character from the purse. The person- and maybe there is no separation, but I want you to watch you one c, b C and listen to you and there's always drama in your presentation on theirs. There there's a performative acts aspect, so it it's romantic, I suppose, is the right way of thinking about it. that's the effective union of emotion and and rationality, and- and body, that so it's like watching someone put on a performance, although its well, then I suppose you ve been doing this for so long. I dont know how much of it is.

Performance and how much of it is you it's very effective? Well, I don't want that long use as given I found the hardest, and this was duly conscious part harnessing the do appear in the television business. Don't go into it now he's on his way out, but if you're in there is to gradually reduce to extinction the gap between I use this phrase Carla recently preparing a face to meet two faces that you meet the gap between I'm on a camera over this they're gonna say it. This way at all, is that when you can bring the prepared remark identically with a totally relax me and if you mean is isolated,

five or six times a year, commentaries that I really meant, and if you really mean it, you can go on stammering and people would listen to reducing the gap between the posture, posturing, and I'm talking to a neighbour. Well so one of the things I ve already observed, because I've done a lot of television in views now, and I guess you have learned a lot of this sort of discussion which I radically prefer, which I think is immensely superior, but so in the typical television interview, I would walk into this duty. And I would meet the interviewer and we would have a cordial and professional conversation that I was actually talking to the person more or less, and then the cameras would go on

The person was no longer there at all. I know I know so, then I was trying to figure out what what's exactly there and what part of it was the day person in some sense didn't dare to be there, because the bandwidth was extremely expensive and if you're there. Being spontaneous. You can make spontaneous errors, and and and that can be very costly to end to your network, and so so frequently I was just talking to whoever it was acting out. The role of the journalist they thought there the station demanded, and so there was no. Conversation and with some of the conversations interviews that I've had that have gone viral were exactly like that, where it wasn't the conversation, what it whatever it was, was something completely different, but that

This there's something essential about what you said with regard to this diminishment of the gap between the persona and the and the person and so the persona. This is from the psychology of Karl Young Young thought about the persona as a crafted presentation here that you used for expedient purposes and apparently- and so maybe you walk into a bank, and you do a transaction and you're the customer and and she's the teller or he's the teller and there's a script therein. That's fine! That's where a persona works, because you don't want to get personal well, you're, just exchanging business information, but in a conversation it it's a different thing, because the persona is something that isn't genuine and that means is that the questions are genuine and if the questions are genuine, then it's not interesting. You said you can stand

burn stumble about as long as you mean it and you can and what is it you think about? What is it what you talked also about the nonverbal component? What do you think is carrying the them? The sense that you mean it What are people observing the performance, let's say or in the presentation? There's an intensity. Yes, you are really is an honest strike. That's a really good question. I always knew intuition that when you show them on television, especially in the role of come data and an indian, similarly, that if I was pretending it bled out through the scream now, unfortunately you haven't done when you got being served, you do all sorts upon in what did the ones. I always like to say one that really count if you put on her face noon the right arm of human beings, the writer, every living

Actually I again in this probably thing they. no what's wrong. Politicians are a member. The thing national, every diamond abomination comes election. This was true. To have her, whom I like, as it was what Mr Truro in particular that The voice to to come out of them in commercials is like something there's never been hurt. Heaven on earth before they actually change their mocha town when they give out the- They emit image will hang us on our under next thing: unlined, you now, because you married we'll talk ending cases that you're describing there's so much in television and media interviews that simply dishonest musical conversation you described having before you start of the interview, and I know you must have experiences- I know a lot of journalists who users those Canada for a sucker punch but dismay

we face on. Oh, I love you, Jordan. Jerry S happened, then assume assumes delights. Go on that the lack of food integrity in is just savage, but those people- maybe deletions. Italy will Orwell's famous thing only let you could believe it is some It's only intellectuals who can see the point educated in a real, but not in a real sense, does something so stupid that you had me extremely intelligent to perform. and in those guys and lose Ladys, who think that they can out cute the guest and get him sitting out there not now not going for a conversation. They decided events that are constructing a moment. Factitious do covering order that its construction and they only want that, so you can be passing off the wisdom of Plato or so reason Jesus in a single sentence, and they are still

funding under heads, I have had them ready, I'm gonna drop it on the not even listening, even listen to you and interviewed supply. That's why I'm here that these long form videos are transformative. I've interviewed a couple of or interviewed, I've had a discussion with a couple of political figures, and that is going to continue. I hope I believe that in a two hour discussion you reveal self. I dont think you can help it and you might reveal yourself as someone who's covering up, so they can't will reveal themselves revealing enough as it is ice say that when the especially doing in England Reason Overland a member one car ownership. Tickers well said he asked me a lot should, but you never got me to say it and I all the measures. You're not saying it was the interview. You know you're always a reality. Andrew

unfortunately now and in public communications, one I started, and this is not missed out into the present moment- need the repressive, complete, not completely so many of us depress organs and just dropped Ali Essential attributes of news gathering information begun partisans had become propagandists our advancing agendas all under. All we are to guarantee and of democracy, gave us all from the post modern perspective, at least how its generally put forward with its NEO marxist surround. There's the proposition is something like All language games are games of power, and so, whether you dear you're doing it or not, you are putting forward an agenda and if you can't see that that's just a sign that ruefully yeah no, but now you made a distinction between

you'll journalism in this false journalism that you're decrying? What do you think are the characteristics of genuine journalism, averse they daily the old bromide, everyone has a biased will, of course, have a bias. Never life, when we talk in the very beginning this for a long time about education. I want education is in another domain is fashioning deliberately fashioning your mind the stand beside itself. Do maybe the stand outside and look at those things that by temperament earnest position or social situation. You have automatically come to accept. We have the power of self scrutiny, and so let us make an easy exert, I love jammed even bigger another going back as a person on a note from as a citizen, but I'm doing When it comes to lie down of Saint John and he does-

Stumble envy makes above a mess of Essen forever, and I said to myself what is done did make. I love him, so I'm gonna hold at one back or not. We are journalists say even on a personal level, I'm gonna go with an eye to capacity than he really messed up. Here, it's a stupid. This is wrong showing on the report. It that's the interior. Every person has control over their buys and why we will never be perfect and expanding it. We all have a response. Similar to examine where we are. on our own personal domain, and it s the case. Then, if your covering politics, you let yourself be agitated by the emotions of media, major love and new dammit. the one you hate and pop up the ones, you love your line and the idea that you, because all have biased Rainier, for you go to the ridiculous extreme, I'm not

indulging but injecting it into everything area. Story and restoring meeting that you have. Journalists want to have a moment. How I can tell you about one of the silliest phrases in western journalism is in truth, the power. This is what I always go back to your hero, sultanate. If you want to know what speaking drew the powers to have ten years in Siberia, avatar a tyranny visit your family that speaking truth, disparities are sacred words You get over here when someone makes a jabbered and Donald Trump, dear. God is a comedy, so you are eight years with here and now Eight years in Newfoundland, every night, five, five, nights a week traveled all over the robins. You right, so you travel everywhere you doing book reviews you're doing classical music reviews

so, you're continuing your education in a major way. That's why I have one most that I'm not never stopped liking energy and wasn't the nordic closed when you walked in and university? I'm ratings are Damas Brownrigg. Now I read forty five. Yours was I never the enthusiasm and an energy comes from the best raise you Edward to the best Matthew, Arnold, the best it has been done said is still there and that's an almost surprising thing that even at this very nocturnal our the kind of exuberance you handed twenty still lingered in the chambers of music, you know you're well, actually something that's if yes with say so. Obviously something- indicating the lasting benefit of of a gentleman education in the humanities? It's it's an inexhaustible source of of what exact

well. We said mimicry of the great spirit that animates ages right now are you: are you get all now? I like your description and that its Not often presented, and now, of course, is the the idea education is for the job. I do know how important jobs are. I come from Newfoundland there's a single set of spirits. As you know, you met them that also see that there is another target in education and that's it.

Just woke up, remember our region, the better to enjoy life or the better do endured. I don't think there's a better short description of what provision is now had a vision at one point of of the people, many people who were influential to me in my life these were, there is particular vision, mostly involve men and, and so it was like a reveal in my mind of men that I'd seen that had been into financial to me and then it was like there was something behind that. That was the greater man that I had been exposed to answer. As a as a student to people I had read and identified with, I mean when I found someone a thinker that I captured me I tend to read everything I could that they had produced and I would fall into their mode of thinking. It would do me over completely and then I'd reemerged somewhat on the other side changed, but but then I could see behind those great

thinkers. There was something else, and I think that something that you know people think about that is the ancestral God the ancestral father in, and that was the spirit that we share running through the great men I had read, and then all the people that had influenced me it shone through what was great good in great about them by the right good, good and great your comment and terrible sensor. These disadvantages are now off limits: the idea of good and great mathematics. This is where they did it among these are the association it's the association with power as soon as you, by the by the doctrine that anyhow local organization is predicated on power than obviously the higher you are in that hierarchy, the more corrupt you are, so you might as well. What's so? What? What are you lose from that? Because you lose your sense of inferiority in relationship to the better? What what you lose is the better! That's fine! If you

good enough the way you are and but I've never met anyone who felt that they were good enough. The way they were there's always clamour inside your soul for more and more that you could be, and where are you going to find it, except among those who have deemed been deemed to be the best and it and it isn't arbitrary? what you said when you went to university you'd here these words and they would hit you, you call them benign explosions, that's not indoctrination by year by year, agitators that's introduction to the benign explosions. What that protect? Professor, all he did I can do here. It is about making a guessers whether forty two line simile- he just read it and I mean it was like Beethoven's fifth commitment- does have those certain power of expression Yorick. There was no message attached, he didn't

say even by the way, no message saying that you must like this. It was just done and let the Spirit respond as this year will, but is this? Is this this fashioned educate this fashioned? You gotta Universe it now too to be to be injected with attitude not taught in some of these, these white programmes and the new anti racism, which is our identity and and you only read things from the tribe to which you belong. I know enough about me. I want to read about the Trojan war, the war on this. sure I mean really there. The armored orgasm Shakespeare and are making fun of mathematics you're talking about its feelings. I No, we wandered soul easily and terrible and

emanating lunacy. Have you seen the latest statement by the President of the series of Catherine Tate following the de la join, like the George tried on states, I'm as that is like a parody of virtue, thinking How easy is going to take notice of this? Mrs demographic moon, CBC. Another care caught spines requires calcium when there's no millions abc none, I'm glad you're, alright. So your ear eight years in Newfoundland travelling all over the province. Your your listening to people you watch the reactions to your shows you're you're reading how much? How much do you read hum and habitually too four hours a day? It was periods when I was out for alike over eight or nine, but I have

books in the morning I looked in the evening and of course, this stuff here, the internet as diluted sounds at that traffic, but I do have a theory store. I also my way- is a good point to make from people who are going to re reading. As navigators wonder you can't read aloud. He can only really, I find great pleasure. I right. We read Johnson's letters, for example, Even the anatomy melancholy, which is, will the task bruised reread So I do that alone. I find it it's a refreshing that you or power power, militaristic or state has, since nobody authority, teases your brain and I you you get thrown into a mood in which the actions of the mind are more prompt and more precise is move. You can you can

claim. I will. I will now say this: you have to wait for the downward to come to you, and what this put you in that that, for see that's emitting right, that's a mystery up that element of thought, and you know people people are easily cynical about prayer, but it seems to me that there isn't much difference imposing a question to yourself and waiting for an answer. Then there is. I dont distinguish between that. In some sense, in prayer and prayer, because deep, the active receiving revelatory thought, which is the thought that bubbles up is. It seems to me that you pose yourself a question and if you're intent genuine, you want the answer. You you don't want something comfortable which is uncomfortable in itself. Mysteriously, the something will arise and the less you put that persona that you describe between you and the source upon which you call the more

will, you are to be rewarded with the words that are correct, but you that being used very strange idea, because it happens of its own accord. In some sense the book, I was referring to way back and I said I'm gonna die to my castle, Kali active creation and it was an analysis of the literary inside our literary inspiration, humor. The discovery of the punchline and mathematical do Eureka moment. I think I think I read that isn't undergraduate is a long while ago. What does it is precisely your point I have puzzle. In my mind, I am trying to find a phrase or of a mathematician I've a real positively and at a whole series of time. I have no answer. I can't get it

I go out and sloppily make a cup of tea as I'm stirring the first, because we should all I get the answer. What is the difference between the two months before, and the time to decide exploded in your. You have your my prepared for its ought to have a place to pop You just use that phrase explosion again you talked about the benign explosions that introduction to literature, setting ok so there's a thematic relationship between those two ideas, and yet we already talked about the idea of mimicry, and so you know what you do in part when you're educating yourself by pursuing what's seat what appears to you to be meaningful in true. Would you build that spirit inside of you? That's it and then that's the thing. That's informing you when you ask questions, and you should build that spirit out of you, build that spirit out of what the best out of the best the past has to

for you and there's markers for that in the markers are that is static. That is that it is gripped right. It's not something that someone can impose on you. It doesnt work, it has done you made it half way, and so one you know when we have a conversation like this, that that spontaneous what I'm trying to do when I have a conversation like this, is to become transparent. In some sense, I don't want my concerns about the podcast. Let's say that quality the broadcast the audience. Any of that I dont want those proximate concerns to interfere with my immerse meant in conversation, and if I do that correctly-

an open myself up, then there's a spontaneity about the dialogue, and that seems to be associated with the search for and the discovery of some additional truth. We have to pursue in this or one of the words the classic Frenchman, prepared a face to meet the basis that you me and each time we are officially or self consciously construct ahead of time. Some personal interaction. What a conversation really is. If we go in with the scaffolding already prepared, an area is kind of an armored. Nothing can happen, you have. You have put yourself in in in the coach container and you have done or ritual moves. You are other point is also very interesting. You don't care to them by gas inequality. Now

Don't don't! These are not only sneezer secondary collateral or adventitious, but if you want to have a chat, make the jet dancing and even there you don't you don't make it to deliberate you just you said you speak and back of our I dont know right away how orange way on this, but that's not the point to the point, and this one is very simple that We have to allow some channel for the impulses that we don't understand of the unconscious common com, sensibility the impulses at we we dont command, but they are. their occasionally they emerge in solving the problem of having a conversation making a quick joe in the middle of a live. Conversation is a great areas. we're not merely is metaphysical, as we should be able to pay more attention to the Spirit, even if they're, not religious, because, as a whole or I got back to network again,

there's all or around how we do things and how we are. Why do you do you have used that word continually white yeah I or what? What is it that well, that fanatical about that consent of ASEAN? Well, two things in that is ineffable ass. The first thing that it is, it is a sheen or a halo effect, but it does that's, got to be by the eye, but there is the from some centre. Maybe it's not a cent on any enemies but found some place than we do rise: psychological, intellectual energy that we can command. But and in some ways we can prepare for, as you have said, by stopping the mines best you get. There are elements in our. it is of the highest start that our structured, logically and new research and all of these measures, one other thing. Besides

I called an aura, mainly because of the gens of tat reality its invisibility, but also its link to something that caused the magic or close to religion even choose either of those who terms soldiers there. The phrase that leaped to mind when you are describing that was the preparation of the Temple for receipt of divine revelation and well I studied eyes. I spend a lot of time. Reading Carl Rogers, Karadzic of psychologists, counselor clinical psychologist, a humanist. but originally a christian seminary and deeply influenced by protestantism and he he wrote very deeply and practically about listening and talking to clients and- and he insisted upon a certain kind of genuine this- that if you were operating properly as a therapist, that there were no no persona

Rick Seaward fully there. We are integrated body and mind integrated and there's something about that. Its things have to line up all the way down to the bottom. properly, and the more that happens that the better the quality of the revealed word at something like that. And you prepare that in by exposing yourself too great thoughts, because they also yes eradicate, There are different raw send and the dead wood and and the impediments to that movement of thought upward, and so well you're reading all the time and pulling in these great thoughts in this spirit that animates the great thoughts as well you're. Also feeding that part of you that response when you call upon yourself to answer quick. So why have stressed in my writings honesty in speech, because you you have to rely on this capacity for creative revelation to to guide you through the darkest possible times of your life. When you have

Nothing else to guide you if you ve corrupted yourself with deceptive speech and therefore deceptive thought you all that that will be there won't be anything there, that's reliable when you call on India desperately I saw you'll be made that point. I think you're one of your recent comments, which does not aware, but where you point out that some people go to, the first say. Ok, I got to bend to the current updated regime, I wonder, pretended I a door all their sanctities, but soon as I get our university- and I got the goddamn piece of paper- then I'm gonna start back and you rode back. There replied if you start lying and you make a habit of it and power of raising. Obviously you want lockout disease, you think, and you later you we'd or start from that point of view, don't than if you, if you make that your presence announced persona takes over the person.

That is, after all, the surrounding with that one on urging on my dad destroying their when you talk about getting so close. To truth, Remember also words themselves as words. If there is a place for enchantment Gerald, mentioned charm obvious what is loot made trees remedy that he could go we were unanimous music, Neck Jasper language also, I think one of the highest are hardly sentences in all. It is the very first one there in the Beginning was the word I mean you ve words are actors We have major control over them. I think, but I am an internal. They have an internal force them a residual force. They are magical, hence biology.

hence ecclesiastics book job you're, not a better. Now I dont know will every ever traded that, but I do know the language in its individual terms, its actual words, ass Laden, ceaseth of of disposition and force. Yes, its right to think of them. the agents young I'd like to hear you are mad, so you Every word and you watch every phrase and you watch every sentence and you try to get the rhythm right and you try to get the harmony right and you then you attack what you wrote and you see if it can withstand the assault, you can bring to it, and maybe you do that fifty times to see if you can craft something that you cannot improve, no matter how hard you try and that you can't break no matter what you bring to bear upon it.

Well, I hope, as I said, I am sometimes a very simple sends me: I, how can I? How can I explain or exploit Kate Blue better, that's particular sentence in the beginning was the work. This Jurassic, syllables, propositions, indefinite article and intervening was the word there's always again. This is always an extra outside contribution that comes from the language itself and pre financing the capitalists direct tradition of the capitalist, Diminute examination of the of the intrinsic terms. The individual letters it may seem like a superstition but I'd, be I'd, cinnamon, lesser superstition, then, as a kind of lively encourage fast to a certain insight. There is more

eggs in Heaven on earth, and I dreamt up in our philosophy I wish to use. This is again. Go back to our theme. Year seems to go through in dealing with literature, projector history. Those kinds of subjects would would pay much more attention to also giving her dear students the capacity to imitate those writers may you mess writer in Amerika in certain ways. Abraham Lincoln is not an amazing thing. These inaugural address I log They have power enough that when Martin Luther King Game by some hundred Sawyer later, Then there were operating in his brain. They were, they were living dynamic, every drop of blood, drawn buddy lashing paper, one drawn by the sword. Once we acknowledge that words in and you too, have their some of the original dynamic. If they had been placed.

in the mind and if their kept them? How do I know I'm rambling? In slightly more than incoherent? We tell our students right. We should tell our students just what you're telling them now, which is that you watch your reaction to the words and you know the odd that's generated spontaneously, and you take note of the worship that you ve just participated in despite yourself as the marker to what constitutes truth. I think you have it. We will never fully comprehend the operation. of our on full consciousness. Eaters. It's it's! It's is beneficial around beneficial, but we do know that spirit. The spirit

it weather religious, zero hour. You want to describe it that there are elements that will not be put down in the account book because it cannot be tabulated cannot be named raised this point you're in the clinical circumstance. Your partly scientist, we will go as far as evidence can lead you, the physical properties, but there are aspects and dynamics of all human action that come from inspiration, though the word could in any way to breathe the demon that you referred to in our creation we move, forward certain arrange, velocity poles were possessed. Will they were possessed something far for awhile, Herman Melville Great example, twenty five twenty six years old and produces what is probably on a text, I'm using eighties worth the only text that could replace pretty close to a Bible. Eighth,

what it is mine he's mine was a volcano for about a year and a half to need re, never or legged. After never Eagle anyone who reads and by the way, was fired by the Bible by Shakespeare. By Milton these are the anchor what you have said so often hear you get in touch with the best in the basket and that review its just a guess: it's marvelous wriggled! That's all I've ever a fine thing. It's terrifying thing that every university education, a real educate, introduces people too, because there's some terrible fire that's associated only last, because it does burned off everything in new that isn't worthy, and that tends to be an awful lot. Where's my case, it's everything don't bring the match, close So, ok, so your eight years with here and now and then what happens Odds and ends of things. Wanting to this party will be interesting.

Further public side here- is that at one point in my own flaws of that work, and I am angles subtract loudly dealers time only. I ended up as an executive assistant to the opposition leader in the firm attempt seventeen months and I wrote question period for the Northern Ireland Assembly. I voted for the carcass and because it is not the man I got inside. I didn't want to do this by the way I dreaded accepting the political point of other Muslim working on an hindsight. Is one was useful? Things are done because apart you mean the guy on the mountain side, would binocular staring at the murder actually in the damn room. I heard. politicians and journalists. I heard my journalists, obviously think of politicians.

There's, a thirty percent ignorance ratio on both sides and never been cured, but it also really educated me sensitize me too. What modern buttons than repressive you were even go back to the Germans. then I ended up writing some stuff. I did this at the peace. I didn't move amended, protect fisheries. This was some are under struck. A cordon rather widely and studies of cod stocks are collapsing. Then this will see a counter somewhat years. What years was this idea? Ninety two ninety three would probably be I may be off on a year to, but that was did. I have our policy also had an unparalleled wealth of of fishery and variety the amount that was decimated entirely I don't ever recovered it is is

entire reason that makes it the language comes out of the fishery. This does the nature of the settlements or small places where they went to, because it was a beach in place to fish the sense of humor. The stoicism that you will find in some certain the inventiveness in song and chat, because or you were really isolated and my only on the water. There was so much tied up with that that that collapses is much psychologically perverse time. Five hundred years you couldn't take a common dead in the water. So I did a piece on that and, as I said, I was struck some courts.

And the next thing I knew I was being offered you your for jobs in various places. I read of of cod schools that were three hundred miles long, hundreds of feet deep hundreds of miles wide and composed primarily a fish that we're three to five feet, long that we're so plentiful. You could hold them up in buckets. That was the one that was the only that was the original cod fishery He drew a joke. You good luck and growth harbours on the backs of God. No was added by the way is the sustenance for inactive terms, three years, allow least wonderfully small places did that also nourish, because they were truly cut off on keep saying this Europe. anyway, you weren't fortune in one's it marries Bay and, therefore, being so isolated. The drive to make things easier for utility or for recreation and invent practices, they brought my over from murmuring overview of England Folk song, somebody

Overnight functions as long as you have not been studied, but are so embedded even a list of names. Guy you're sorry you try to do it yourself, so it did by also kind of fostered by force in the world There wasn't too many other people around to help. You tell him, you don't do it yourself. You're, gonna, be a hard spot. A lot of virtues but it had a lot of thought and a lack of health and education being the two principal on how many futures were amputated, because you grew up in a place where no has no school, and there was no else how many of these issues Thomas Grain into English Georgette. I am an immunity in glorious Milton's. It was hard, it was cruel, but it was rich was rich and things again that individuals and command

It is not. So writing what were you writing that caused such a stir? I just what I wrote it looking back at allows basically analogy. I call it on people's shores, and that come soon on other points was heard. I close adhered aid and not with a dull, sinew trail of waters that move along and people shores. That's a poem written in nineteen, thirty about movement, an hour meeting. I was simply stating that the sole and I mean it saw move a man. Who's been blistered evaporated once you kill the cultural economic, linguistic sources, the being of the place I got so I was

the reckoning we talk mainly to fishermen that that port, I Mohammed, nor that North EAST, on Saint Anthony Glance, a metal farmers by what is a good point to make farmers gave it the most responsible letters, I've ever received, and I wondered why fishermen are not. Farmers is very simple, turned around Father's had received saltfish from the different understand the dirty thirties, when they lend a very dust balls and all the grove is going on

No for language was injure, Sir Country somehow got morals, assault, visual and very farmers. They remembered when they saw the fishery collapse. I'm serious thousands of these your letters, not in the end, if you read, stabbed him and three quarters of movement berries. I always thought that. Then I learned that I thought that was a blessing to kind of associate with Canada, the under stories and much better than the newspapers. What kind of consequences were, therefore, for that? Writing That was a point worth story met. Someone on my basically on me. My personal lives close enough to good some justice, but it was the voices are not one of these laws. It was the voices of the vision that I interviewed, and also some officials did it dropped into a higher

twenty do internal agreements. Are you really see not bringing stating because most Canadians is again spiky apologetica come on every single I'm Dave a lot about how miserable I'm hateful where at the national level, in the main does not confined to any reader is. originally lively interest in me, Mary, Another people lemon are running out of time, does any way we can ensure seed or at least offer you verbal conference we're gonna do it. I went to farmers for man She never would you legumes only small farm, inshore fishermen and the family farm. They saw their their native durst their identity as citizens. That's why I want to say their identity, as citizens was to pre M one of that moment and when I think of agenda

Politics I often ask, and I think that it should be a lot more. When you go to university your Then there is a student, gotta universe. We all know about identity. There is public servant, the idea that you can't you. You're being the one small superficial attribute, as is nonsense. Buddy The effect on me was ended up here I came up here again. I landed on dates. Ninety four and five and here is Toronto is convincing, from the periphery, so to speak from you, happily protectionism in Toronto. Absolutely what happens when you move to Toronto. not a lot said by that time. Most parents gone. I had to do a job at the national commentary and under use of ad Susie. Radio, mud I was introduced to the reality.

never been before to the full play of I would a really large province, arterial, ten minute and because I was working at the national politics on the national scale and Also there is a small dimension. Somehow I ended up being reasonably populars, as Smee heard, all sorts of things. And that gave me more opportunities than that financial nerve. They were financial. Do but I ended up in so many places addressing so many different groups: every fisherman dynamics, the nurses deliberations and over a twenty year period. This drop me in and out of hell of a lot of places and many tremendous host of different people

from occupations and there's a second, but that would be part of the reason why in some sense you have a national voice right, because all those people that you ve met they echo inside of you in the same way that the books that you ve read echo inside of you. I think the tree. falling under us Austrians judge you always did you couldn't. You are scheduled to sick, but I can always almost always linger for a day or two and the various associations also give battery is Isaac. Public meetings is a great pleasure and it's a bit of an art. I was fortunate at this stage to be given other stages in which to keep practices. and you know really again, you dont hundreds, not united turning a four year You learn the arts of public communication, that's retrograde, vaguely defined by the way, and you take it, but you are right on that thing that getting crossing and countries see how Alberta is different from British Columbia. Russia is different.

Northern locks. This this country is is fluid It has an underlying sentiment patching Mr Bruno. There are core values in general and they should be stood up and emphasised a hell of a lot more, but this was against the second part. Practical education. You get out you're, not in Toronto, all the time and while I dont dump on Toronto per se, you get within its charm circle one of the mental heard the set of synonymous attitudes

on the sandy and journalists in the city is Bali, I think that's reflective of something that happens in the end in a north american culture, at least as far as the United States and Canada are concerned, he had also happens at the level of the intellectual elite and there's seems to be something like a very distinct stance of contempt that emanates from. That is certainly something that people who aren't in Toronto react to react. What identify with Toronto and react against and it is, it is the kind of air asian that drives the populism, for example: yes, exactly Donald Trump, so popular, it's exactly I've seen that in the contempt that reviewers continually express for my hypothetical followers, like I dont think I have followers I think I have

viewers and watchers and readers, and and even if they were the people their parodied to be? I dont see any real sin in communicating with them in and in whatever capacity I can manage, but there's always a dripping contempt, that is, that is associated with the toy polloi. Let's say who. No need such bromides and so forth follows very Troy. Arriving in your particular case is law law law intelligence. Snobbery AG a kind of the absolutely brazen smart but people again going to fire, you haven't read his watch now knows once, but it is a very creation of their standing within this little particular guarded set and the opinions You have to be the only of engines, somebody blows very heavily discount and level.

I was why are we here? I wondered in your case to it in the vote. beginning when the universe geronimo. Suddenly those letters I keep asking what must appoint of tenure it all these great tenured professors are doing ready drama when one of their own is being this margin to some degree threatened lightly implementers. What why aren't I held on the principal it seems to have just gone away on that sounding that's reluctantly, trundle mentality, but it certainly know there's been based. Golly radio silence from my colleagues that it is very strange, even Even the level of success in the books any serious engagement review full scale of any of the three just take place. Yeah. You know Andalusia, the kind of agitated morons on twitter, dropping

hello argue bombs from a re night. I don't know why this is the case. If it makes you is making a melancholy. I don't know about April to fix it. Actually, I wonder how far we can go along these paths before we degrade in degenerate. What is actually happening? Have you seen happening you? You ve, been observing our canadian the culture for a long long time and have any particular axe to grind. As far as I know, I don't know so what what's happening in the cultural sphere as far as you ve concern over the last say, well pick a point and I decided I would say the last ten or fifteen, we know origins and I want got your wallet. We know sixties, but in terms of visible evidentiary impact, it's the last ten or fifteen The first thing that I see in that I represent is the idea tacitly held never explicitly re public than theirs. Perspectives on the world and are ok

Older, maneuver, we're better at any time. For them or does bring with them or an alternate set is not me not three allowed have to Now you ve illustration have two reasons. Museums is collapsing shrunk to such a vast extent. They did, it seems only engine and talking to the big blue green with it and that's a much more narrow lunch than ever parents and their reaction to c b c and me. We were avid CBC, listen ass when I was a kid especially to fm and beyond. It was everywhere Canada, but also, of course, television as well, but radial will concentrate on radio. It was always of high quality, and it did seem to speak, the whole country, it did a credible job as its national broadcaster and then all of a sudden- and it is probably fifteen years ago everyone, I know in the west just stop listening. It was like no this isn't us anymore. It folded up and went away. I can tell you

regarding guarding attacking them. I just small minor, almost silent. billion within? I tried to get something out there. What I was travelling in the last ten or fifteen years. It was the most fragrant phase out everywhere and not watching it anymore, watching it in and its accelerated greatly the events in the states, you drop selection, maybe do degree Braxton over across the water, as has become attended with? Are? is presence in January with this new woke. This is critical race theory, the imposition of anti bias hypertext and, I think, a fact, sensitivity of the business University and even the health community to do more fashion The virtue contests, Mr Trudeau apologizing almost every six days, I've, Britain's or Europe.

Causing a these ease. Great ahead, we ever fast, but down and find something good to say. We have stripped the nation of self confidence is wondering We will avail you and put out in the outer darkness a vast portion of the population. There are not listening to its core. Through leaders or Illuminati or declare a sea people are afraid of. Political correctness is a very feeble phrase to cover the psychological landscape in which people of moral character are afraid to say what is extremely obvious. I were polluting the political system and the intellectual the system and, finally, the site view on a large scale side you, no one is resisting this desert. This title force Emphatically, cheapening the culture and shut

nah chattering, like piecemeal, graduation Canada, measured manage astronomy, is gone, Janice, fear mango all I've got zone is yes, forthright Bruce Party law, professor queens as being What would you say, truthful communicator with me? I also like David Solway generously and ngos husband. He read some very strong stuff so you see this and you don't think it's just that my asthma cranky old man, I mean those. Why not and what are you lying about the true to government? Just out of curiosity, I had I not me I dont really politically, I mean com. Try now behind looked at so many governments and you you you do to me to be someone who gives out praise where praise is due in

I certainly averages. I certainly all by do underprice front to their two or three things. Is we indicate, indicates a trivial matter parts level is your canada- is not only wrong that it has. our values and that there is no such nonsense. I vehemently against D. Propaganda cited of using all his private meaning, personal, all his private social commitment, It is far from being the worst, but also he adopted what, despite his own personal stuff, he adopted what persona to the end possible degree, and why do you say he adopted that persona? Rather than being it mean? What do you think that's cool This is not something I dont know Trudeau is like do you know only at all, you ever talk to him when he had one

our session, but I will not make the remarks and I want it. Why will base it on? Is that try to be harsh without cause? For some reason it was fashion. Exactly the other side of the windows, the opposite, there will be other. I think he did they want and in his biography. That makes sense is at least that little inclination towards dramatic he's, not a very good actor, but he knows but roles are playing best, and because the Gazelle reserves at your self countered nutrient, disorganized and leaderless bunch, it's enough to be half good under presidium to maintain but the worst thing about legislators. We have fractions fractions in the west. We have great doesn't check once we have economic ruin facing some problems. Is that after this call that thing the generational tensions set up between the walk

another of our people- and he is so watch on one side of all of these things and it emerges from his government and his ministers smugness about. The opposition, I can't think of a time and in a kind of soft way was in such a possibility of losing its own confidence shoulders back. As you say, this country bit by bit by bit the shedding the sense of its own integrity and drifting and politics is, is so, shall we say, I wish I wish I wish you could ever hear of a few. Don't have it there's no orator, because there's no truth and you can't feel the great speech around something you don't really believe in and by the way so back to you. We are a nation, The last time you had a national address.

meant underline and, as you said, there is no national identity what's to address, Origami national identity is essentially something like tyrannical power and oppression and not be fought at every possible. What every possible corner by every possible means. What can you possibly it ass here and also the factionalism of identity. Politics is directly contradictory, seeks to to suffocate the idea of criminality in cities. ship? That's another got a huge worry in the end, in the name of anti racism, I see somebody's tactics itself demonization in some of the insults as provoking. the very cause they seem to be against. We gotta, stop fascinating undercover people skin Would you rather than revolving sometimes just turns into I haven't seeing the time when the hour

drink when you have no one ironical under this. Is that systemically racist I was in overland when the Americans landed in nine eleven interviewed someone did. It did not have any problem with background color, skin or anything else, a reflection of the normal canadian welcome, welcome, welcome, and yet we have people like Mr Bruno Catherine Susie, cheek user organisations mean systemically raises its nutritional says. The parliament is that just happened to be like tat. It was planned to be. Are we made with many evil? You know flageolets. This is to move to new patriotism. That's where I that's my deepest parliament. Mister turtle

those large as a nation that is secure, seems to think he's governing. Why I'm still struggling constantly to understand this to see to see, because it does seem to me to have accelerated in the last few years whatever this is that we are celebrating a mean into increasingly the pathology that has death did the humanities in particular, which is the core of the university and you you know itself punitive in some sense, because in Rome and in the mandate is polluting right, it's just catastrophically declining, and so you might say well, it's the motivation was resentment of the creative process that produced the great classics. Then victory has been attained. Classics been decimated and everyone, no one, will attend to the many more and so you know victory, but it means the death of the

diversities as far as I'm concerned and then but worse than that, and- and I could see this happening five or six years ago- is that this is starting. In a very major way to percolate out into the broader cultural, so you stages in the schools. Every faculties of education in particular, should hang their heads in utter shame. What they ve done to the education system is beyond disgraceful and its barely got going and see this in the corporations to I see these corporations they here they ve fall over themselves cow telling you reach our departments to bring in a philosophy that is explicitly anti capitalist you're like what are you people doing it's like? Don't do you think you're going to be able to pick and choose bits of this philosophy. Once you open the door you, I just can't believe that that I can't believe what we're we're on the same page there is. It is inexplicable

from the schools. I've I've seen the material themselves who is not against the basque country, the training such as the idea that a human being were any self respect would submit to anti buyers, training who died Are you to tell me what I want obviously biased they did the new weak disempowered of the Big corporation, don't even know what those tests measure I know appeared under literary letter. Research on those tat did not only ass what that biased consists of its cultural revolution. when China and who is the ignorant folded gas. All this expertise does she already have culture was It was unconscious. How daily look at nation- citizens accept this. You don't go in, to remove a shoppers oh you're, the fur or law firm and let some jerk,

how you and tell you take the sensitivity tree owner. How are you I went to church? I went to school. That's what use me my personality so that some corporate fool, but now everyone shorter down head under the desk, that's biggest worry, I think, we're at the back end up some delicate. and some of them chosen melting, are things that we knew only knew had that they had their neighbour so well off. We revenge the lady undecided, all from rate wars and from poverty and huge natural disasters our ancestors built the place up for our benefit. We waltz in full of life vigour go places, so you you get you get lazy and complacent, and you let these these these these mice off.

Take over the building, but after a while, as you said, you can t you can't taste admitted this. You have to take it all, and I, which are due to should be fighting this not underlining and endorsing it gets. So what what? Let's talk about? The conservatives momentarily mean they can organised themselves. They they don't have a story. That's compelling own. This isn't just a problem. Its distinct to Canada now live the inability of centrists to generate a romantically compelling narrative is universal. Across the west. As far as I can see, and so it I mean it's a pretty. I presume the turtle women the next election. I dont know what you think: I think that done bearing some some Easter scale, miracle he will and Mr Otto I was recently in wisdom embraces this precision folly of apocalyptic

warming and promises on carbon tax, all these Mps, this gradual and their years, one two people in there in the conservative party of real talent, darkly there's, no, matching hussy saved us. Suddenly slipped away beer, but otherwise no they consent to the things do I should talk to beer either very, very good again. I'm not article have suggested people think that I am partners. I am not be just as hard but Polly there I have. I don't know I have talked with her eyes organised a lesson. The speeches in parliament, a very, very good, You take the other side greatly day, hate him as opposed to don't like him,

he would have been much more convincing depressed despises and which is another metal of Canada in his favour joy. He would be a very good you. These are taken as hell. I don't know much about him. Ass such but I watched the performance and, in the case of public life, performances everything. So, let's flits end this by we didn't work your whole life, but we we weren't, I hurried up. One should also I am. I haven't gotten much more alive, Jordan, glaring journalism. What was it like when you were younger and and what's happened, and where do you see hope perhaps. I don't use for most people to go into a do actually intended or intent with intent went after journalism, career. I thought I knew a lot of the editors and really small town newspapers. about eight or nine doesn't maneuvered land. When I was there a harbor gray, Sir said Anthony's farm bill

and they re all home. Dom report needs are small downs. They were fun there that that was the arbiter. Of course, either this rate in a fallen ups along, say: Johns wasn't in mitigating the newspaper town, but They actually reported the news and it wasn't signalled causes and stick up things it whatever one reflectors cause would be, newspaper then out and was the event was a car crash was the election. It was informed. It was something that surely happened. Every report, things that happen that our new We don't see yourself as a running channel. Try demand the mind of our readers jump thirty forty years in the states, it's absolutely nothing outside of soviet Russia when it was soviet, Russia and Pravda policies? green law lies journalism United States yeah. All the big network everyone was animals fox? Have you ever

watch CNBC everywhere. I see a man, I mean you, you need a mental plans are And if you are in the same rounded data ruinously corrupt They are ruinously in confidence. Some of their language are stupid. I mean you would in the sense that they had to work hard to get it, but as they are, and then you have the newspaper suicide while Tromp is such an evil that we have change the entire doctrine. I voted in favour as we are to get him when this very simple activists, it's time to walk to the cemetery had married a day. From depresses so home address. How much that do you think it is mere merely a consequence. Merely a consequence of technological river, Should I mean there's so much journalism now it's because anyone can pick up a pen and and have an end, instant international audience. If they can attracted right. You can be long, you can you do you do videos itself

No one has a monopoly on bandwidth anymore. I know so the newspapers and and and class journalists are really up against it. In in a profound way I mean, are we just seeing the consequences? I know you think it's more than that. No note, all I know is for defined her now. the journalists in the higher attitudes, national journalists, especially they now see themselves as procurators as as persons as procedures, to some degree, at least as also report on they also in the desert themselves, with a clerical view, things that they have a wisdom. perhaps even the people, their reporting on r r K, well are receiving. They are there to teach. You see me see from my protector he lost his audience, mainly because it became a preacher and there you go

the chief curry, rolling preacher which has evolved there you have it so many names on the head with that. You do not need I'm an exit, z, disease and these days, but not journalists have self appointed as the problem. Let's take the Trans Movement suddenly they legume in three days. They can put this particular issue which at best micro level, Joseph Daul, population and they get to new in the new litmus test deal. for whether you're absolutely correct or not. They endorse all ideological, programmes of the hard left and- and I also say this any journals and journalists. Note like their own audiences or the people, a red, don't like I said, but the man you think, I'm becoming a journalist, please let her and a bit more before you do, although those

do very well said Gangrene wild Molly, Hemingway now only Philips I'm gone around enormities. These are steadily examples of what we would hope. Well, it seems that people like that are increasingly, I would say, going out there on their own, the other they are Melanie Fellows. I do know as our own. Being set up, he read more got tossed because he wasn't subscribing to the current lousy but he had enough standing that his intercept magazine worshipped Dolly, and he gets a lot of your time because of guinea. He is, I hate the term a celebrity journalist, buddies, good journalists Israel. Ninety five percent of what he thinks, but I see him covering depressed lately, the last five or six months in some of these columns. There as they say must read about. devices letter, do another yet also good stuff. So there are good people there, but I think the weight contrary with the universities

operations, news, media itself. The trend towards DE enforcement a thousand or my mob of a certain set of thoughts is so deep. And so on, resisted by so many. I think we're in long haul than ever a ban economy coming out. call the eldest many it's gonna be a terrible to Europe. years or so many people and is not being borne by shops. Lost jobs at last hope saw some life enterprise collapse. and I would like to see- is on a nose, no you're, not anyway. I don't mind. I don't mean our wits end up screaming at you. What makes Europe domestic airy any flare of independence,

I'm not as convinced it some of the brilliant writing that is being done in analysis. Abolition is reaching enough people but I am encouraged that there's a lot of I got your dollar span, there's a lot out there. If you The research about. I dont want to be classified as optimism, but when societies get really challenged, I mean really channel. Inevitably there revert to the genuine virtues just current Malays as sends back really badly. and if Canada is no longer a place that has instant. Sister was everything once maybe it's This is world again leap.

eternal values of intercommunication, of common ability of goals and values, not skin colors or ideologies- and Getting closer to reality, if we are forced to buy economics, are other things we will dispense with Bush. We bought me well. goes on all issues hollow and uses, but it's a good year even afford to play. If you got everything else, taking care, if were driven back to actually having to work for things, think about things take time and avoid falsity these diva bobbin in a day whether that What happened I kind of doubted, maybe that is missed the cynicism of some essence. Creeping up on me.

You ve had a stellar career as a journalist. You have the sort of career that I would say every journalist would like to have you ve been prolific and influential and well regarded uncontroversial and, and you ve had a long life doing it and done all sorts of interesting things. What advice when you have for someone who wants to write? What would I have to do if they want to write and its particular? They won't be journalists who right go to the best examples. One every journalist The country should have the two volumes amalgam averages biography. I noticed for tourism. I know your veneration of chauvinism, I also know you know tat math among regions of very first prominent western journalists who wrote of the terror and famine He did it. Watered Randy was lying to the New York,

I'm getting pillar german another prizes for I wanted and a red, Flannel Ryan, I would advise on the regions. I would advise. Most of all in terms of the reading Reed Francis Bacon S. Is there the vessel, lead story, red lines, leading a story. Here's wants what its truth suggesting pilot and would not stay Fernand. You are not a right- a lead sentence read any of maidens, as is the animals beautifully. auditing, will you do to right? There's only one thing. Jordan. If I may use your first name that anyone who seriously wants to write or wants to write stuff. That is serious, as Also some victims diary Red Read: other people read other novels, there's nothing that would help me war. In the hour of writing.

Then reading, and you could also I one more thing. If you re say the registry be read, paragraph sit sit back already palm you're. Some. If I were to write this land to communicate start. How would I have said the imperial? What shouted Gerald it anyway, I think I'll, probably dragged user should appoint a perhaps mortal tedium high gonna stop right there. Thank you very much I'm really appreciate you speaking with me.