We finish out our two parter on the Edgewood Arsenal drug experiments with harrowing tales of LSD overdoses, soldiers on PCP, and the evil motivations behind an experiment that took us all the way over to France.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
There's no place to escape to this is the last on the left. That's on the cannibalism started. What was that oh I'm, having one I want someone, then they got the day to see. She showed me this portal, for this girl is having an orgasm and every time she has what she goes. Oh I'm having one right, which is just that's the worst way to have one I'm having a dialogue. Same dialogue is a fat guy at a buffet in an old country buffet when he's looking at the chicken tenders, but he's saying I'll have nine, but he just says wanted a time you no harm Warner.
Edgewood part. everybody we're doin, it Edgewood part. Two! Yes we're back in here, I'm sorry I was just perpetual. I'm having. I love the way you come Henry you're, the first person to ever say Well, that's where we have a soul connection, it's true we're gonna, the heavy, the heavy drug abuse in the heavy drug use in this episode. So it's gonna be fun. We brought up in in last episode of a bunch of different ways. The government is basically trick soldiers into being tested its own brought it up on the facebook page it is true, which is something our soldiers have gone through a long time. To be honest, I didn't even think about it, but I remembered my uncle was a part of the. Basically he was a part of one of the first ten in Vietnam, either pastrami troop pastrami troop. I remember the a pastrami pastrami troop. They brought condition
to the locals, but they were distrustful of them things out. They were booby traps, but he was sprayed wits. The original, basically with the original tests of ancient orange, and cause all my cousins to be retarded. So I know that this happens all the time and now people that think that that was a joke state but that is not. You actually have a lot of mentally disabled cousins, all of my cousins or have some form of mentally with some of mental disability are only one whose is sharp as attack. It's very interesting women programme a case study. This eyebrows geek case study will speak in Vietnam, one of the guys that was subjected to the drug testing at Edgewood medical facility. He said that his time the time spent there under the care of these experiments. Worse than to towards in Vietnam. He delegates there. They had a lot of drugs and Vietnam, but they also had prostitute he's just like oh yeah. Technically his
tour was a wide tour. Everything after that must have been elected yeah. He left Vietnam and he didn't get a purple heart, but he was a professional psalm, which is very good also before we really get into this episode. I'd like to remind everyone again, I hope, you're not listening. This episode with your fucking shoes on take them off put on a bathing suit inside of your house. Remove all your clothes tell everyone to just just fucking lay off with the communication for an hour. That's right, a Fuckin Jefferson's finger of the poorer, the most premium fuckin dragon eggs. You can because we're going to trip you out the same way. These guys got tripped out except you're, not gonna, get residual payments from the government. That's right smoke that racist Jefferson, Weed, Thomas Jefferson, eyes rubbish. What I was not the one that was moving on up up up up, even though that's actually
way to put an end to smoke. We because it gets you Hi Jefferson's are moving by tying as our eye outside its good boy. I'll, have what he's having please so between nineteen fifty five and nineteen sixty seven, the military tested, seven hundred and forty soldiers and nine hundred civilians with LSD. they would do is they would take these guys and They would lock them in these small, very poorly lit route. with no door knobs on the inside for some of the experiments those experiments would they would. In the box and there would be a guy on a phone talking to him. On the other side, this guy was isolated, others they were just one on one interviews between the experiment and the scientists, and there are multiple videos of these interviews- theirs, Yet on a month, if you watch the Documentary Bankrupt Edgewood, you can see a law
examples of it. So what we're gonna do right now is work and play you some of the less de trips that these guys got into while they were under the care of these doctors. Edgewood now a lot of them react differently. Some of these guys they loved me. That's like doktor catch. Her whole thing is. They said that basically he felt that the media was focusing on the people that need that had a bad trip. What they, when they really need to do, is go in the focus on the people that, like Fuckin, had their minds bologna right right. I agree, which is true I also remember everybody who has tripped on acid or is there any sort of hallucinogens? Remember the effects that you have when you took either one or two tabs of acid rain. So it's a feeling of heightened euphoria. You start giggling certain, maybe getting a little anxious to get kind of income uncontrolled your body. It's easy for you to get like law.
in a closet. Oh yeah well, closets are very tricky to get out of with all the clothes and the and you keep on tiping on shoe. That's a problem because you keep seeing all your alternate self right. You know I mean it's, all the clubs, but I will so imagine taking six to again sixty hundred times more than the normal dose of LSD and then being forced to sit in a chair with a headset on and answer questions from your fucking boss right. Even if you were just working at the Piggly Wiggly gonna be a hard time, one sure there's countless b. work in a Walmart right now, trip and nuts off of mushrooms and other just keep on marking the same Makin cheese box with the sixty nine send stamp and they haven't moved up a box in three hours is mention of incentive. It's the assistant manager, Herman Fuckin, has long. You are you're trip and balls. Instead, it's like sergeant staff, Anderson and he's got a fuckin crew caught in these Tellin ya out the Vietnam WAR is gonna. Go on for another
Yes, I can only imagine he's animated. Like a crumb cartoon, you can just see the saliva spit from his mouth and every single drop you can feel hit your face as if it's a thousand pound weight breath he takes here? You can hear it like its echoing okay, we're gonna toss some tunes underneath these as well correct, of course, of course, who do you think you're fucking talking to here all right? Let's get to some rock and roll behind these things. So, let's just fucking kick back and get trip, hey! Okay, I'm still! I'm sorry come on baby, I'm sorry. How do you feel so like you're asking me now, so let me feel right now, can't figure it out. Bye it's hard to figure out part of the EU
and there's a different guy is Edgewood, as you think you could account back seven three. If I gave you a number at all right, about a seven, Three hundred and seventy one subtract seven from one hundred and one and then subtract seven from. I can't do that now to take one thousand, seven hundred and ninety eight,
ninety one, twenty one. Twenty years- thirty seven by twenty one, so five dollars is five. Thirty five quarter rest of the run with us round up. I should've went seven twenty three seven, ninety eight giving moving. I know it's gonna, try, seven or ninety eight as well and, of course, that man's name was private, Frank Zappa, he went on to be a great rock and real musician. Can you know, are tough questions, though. That is not an easy challenge, if you're sober or the frame it take. Seven from take seven from it's like that's difficult, firs of all to wrap your head around. Just like it's like a fun on a word puzzle was also like these guys not smiling at all, but I love the fans
He couldn't answer the question. How are you feeling that's pretty remarkable I mean that's acid, that is nice, then do in body, and you just go like other man. Are you just big its bigger than us man? Are you feeling the wind and the wind, all right, all right kind of got a skeleton arm thing You know I'm gonna feeling Skelton arm a little, but I m kind of I'm feelin. Leprechauns hat you don't say At some point, these generals did have to realise that they weren't doing anything to advance of a better soldier to meet to make war. Something that's gonna be fought they weren't, making our army more superior. By doing this, they had to realize that at some point absolutely in fact one of them was quoted the conclusion that they eventually came upon an area of tributes, shit man, ok, so nineteen sixty scientist hold an audience of military doctors. He said it may be possible to
so dos man that he could describe an enemy soldier as green and purple striped, cuboid and nine feet tall. But this is not incapacity, station, so long as he can still recognize this apparation as an enemy and can shoot him or impale him on a bayonet. Well, their number one flaw is that they don't just see it as a frumpy Russian, which is what that person was probably looking at. They see it as someone that should be killed in Galaxy Galaxy, the guardian, exactly so playing a video game like that's so much scarier than just seeing a soldier. You know what I mean and it actually feels like. Doesn't it make them more ready to murder, but also it's it's just again. They're just making people that want to we, the cid, tar, the zero soldiers? I agree here testimony from a guy that went through these tasks? This isn't an actual video, because a lot of the videos I'll say Mammy most of them are guys. You know it's like take seven four Andy One and from that and from As far as LSD videos goes. This is a guy
describing what his trip was like. While he was on LSD you're gonna, be super positive. At any great, I met his wife They saw Jimmy Hendrix play, they play it for the first time. I just don't think these guys relay said a trip. Sitter needs to be like he needs to have like a friendly beard and like kind eyes. You know I mean, and he has to have like a lot of oranges and like thorazine like that's. What a trip are This is easier, Jerry, Garcia, I'll, be your trip centre of jet. Patent junior. I'm trying to prove to my dad that I'm a man right take the asset, my dad's. That was strong enough to beat fellow Marines, but I will prove him wrong. Alex play crane. If you lose, I'm gonna cut off one of your fucking tones. So this would be scary. If I wasn't on acid, I'm really intense and cranium, I love cranium great game
so here's a testimony from this guy. I started seeing giant spiders that appeared to about two or three feet in size all over the walls and Alice. I'm not normally scare spiders, but I mean the size just blew me. I could not believe they were in there and it frightened me that these interest so big and there were so many of them in a little room- and I start seeing- boils all my body and blisters. That's like pretty like pink Floyd type stuff. That's pretty neat and I do like the fact that he was
genuinely just scared of the size of them right that you can see in him. It was that he was just like you know: I've seen spiders and yeah. You know spiders and only like small, and they are bigger. Spiders to spiders are like really big. It's interesting, though, because I would be, I would be totally fine with four or five large spiders on the wall. I can have a good time with that: okay, hundreds and thousands of small spiders. I can't deal with all that that would trip me out hardcore. You know what I would rather hundreds of thousands. Small spiders, then one big, six foot, spider. You think I don't know the six foot. Spider could become your friend. I don't think so. Unless it's down to be your friend, my problem is, first of all, it has to be down to be your friend and that's a lot of conditions to have with a six foot spider, especially when you're tripping fucking balls in a deprivation to
RO, the middle, the Pentagon. Why didn't they just go to Greenwich Village, just like send in a secret? You know they do stall the Dose New York of all of enduring the operation big city, they they got some of it, but I guess that also got to be putting unstable as well. Oh yeah I got out of control and in fact we will get later. We will get to an experiment in which they went over to Paris to try this type of stuff out all sorts of shenanigans. However, there we had another sim type character, yeah, another sim type character, a guy named sergeant, Clovis cocoa. We'll get the sergeant later on, hey Henry? What does it sound like when sergeant Clovis I'm having what she's having is it an organism? It sounds like one domains possible. I want to thank your gear coasts.
are there on a to z, for bringing that pornography film to your attention, having one I'm gonna to say that tonight. If I do have one but another guy, I did the other lsd flash. Do you remember the one where he said? Riddling the police, the doctors face, came off and walked across the table. Now I must now in areas like again using we like, and I was Admin stirred the serum and I was there. I was asked several procedural questions and then I M a heck of a hacker, thing later his beach is kind of popped off like it was Alice in Wonderland and started walking across the table, and it's just like way. That sounds the exact way that Bob Denver would have described it. The heck of a thing happened, I'm just so jaded. I think all of us are so jaded now, as a matter of fact, Marcus you and- and I bonded years ago now over the over a viewing of Cannibal Holocaust yeah
and I feel like if we were on acid and all of these experiments were happening to us. Giggles, no loved everything. We actually, we would probably the prove the people that they were looking for tat. We would have been great super soldiers who knows, I could have been a doctor if I got the government to give me some lsd. When I was twenty one said I had to do it by myself right so besides a. They also gave these soldiers PCP otherwise known as angel dust out on the street right Frank in getting wet. I've heard putting a zipper in your brain, hot step. God scatter shoes, but in addition to fill me with lsd experiments, they also film the pc, p experiments which are actually quite a bit more entertain. Because they gave a guy shit ton pcb and asked to run an army obstacle course, all by himself question here. If they gonna do with this one, I was kind of expecting
The nail this I know it does I've watched enough. zones of the television show, cops to know the guys on pc pay, the one thing they can do. They can't speak, they can't think, but they can run yeah and they can run they run hard. Will people don't talk about? Pc p is actually it's very good for you Your taxes, oh yeah, because you could do those taxes in your room. You could do those taxes in an office. You do those taxes in the middle of a four lane highway. doesn't matter, and it is a matter Henry. What did describe what this guy looked like running this obstacle course he is so slow. They gave him this pc p and then itches him disregard like yeah it's kind of like kind of gently hops over the things, and he slowly goes up to the thing, but you can tell that he thinks he's fucking.
Ripping it up. He is tearing this thing apart, but it's weird because he's staring at the wood, the wooden wall that he has to get over and he's trying to negotiate with him he's like I'm gonna out. Thank you and it's like it's. What just hop get go. This is the other. again a problem. I'm also thinking they're, overdosing him on PCP to they're, not even giving him what you'd get on the street by the way has any wars. On ever been fought in a place that was close to looking like any of these? Any these courses doesn't random wooden walls. You ve never heard of this, your accuse jungle, Jim Wars and its sole reason. We think that I would have heard about it. Now. I was just a bunch of kids fighting over there This spring horse or Senate wiggles. Back and forth and gives little kids or gets Henriette just what is eloquent little child orgasms
you just give me a flashback. Speaking of drugs and flashbacks ever terrible, the I was a big child. You know the spring, your horses, it's just one spring there and kids like they like they like to go back and forth, and back and forth, I went forth I got it. I never made a bad you just Becky supplanted I broke and then what did the kids helped me? No, they just laughed and laughed and then I just gonna. more than forty four year to be pointed out by other people. What is your we shortcomings, rifle railway yeah, but luckily this guy ran this course. He gave a bit of a post game interview, with superiors. So let's hear what this guy had to say following,
running the course on pc. I feel pretty good. Sir, are you cold? No, I'm not cold at all. No, I'm not tired, so I could run yes, sir. Could I run one hundred miles right now? That's right! I run through it and no, I feel good and I'm not tired and I can run through it again see what I mean fit and fit just to give you any instructions about what you were supposed to do tomorrow. Sure discuss. Yes, let me see what was I supposed
Tomorrow, tomorrow, what is today, Thursday, day Thursday, there tomorrow. Lost some buttons there yeah and that's when he sort of wanders off preoccupied with the buttons on his jacket. I think you actually play the wrong clip there. I think there was a deleted scene from forest gum lost some buttons, but he didn't lose the button rather shirt shorted come on buttons and he just didn't. They didn't show the footage of him eat number It's like they were chocolate chip right before the obstacle course. We had the old fronty raisins as he call them, is a sham crunchy raisins, I gotta tell ya,
I could have a solid three does it more of these crunchy raised? I would say it didn't look like it when you watch the footage wasn't really exuding himself that hard. He was fairly winded, though he's raging on PCP yeah. I feel like his body's just dealing with the PCP in a system, because when you see the email of those foot, the footage of people on PCP they're, always like naked and running over cars and then it'll accountant, This is a guy there's, a guy you're in New York City that I've seen. He looks like like that. Like the guy, you wanted to kill the beast in that I did cartoon beauty and the beast he's just huge and do you know I'm talking about Henry and he would walk around Union Square Shirtless just covered in sweat and in a strut like I've, never seen he's going nowhere, a drug called confidence, yes What more is of you know? Actually, what pcb does to the body that causes you just sort of get winded yeah Bilbil, pc bead can cause. If you take too much of it, it can cause the swords.
as for terror, respiratory failure that you get with brain damage Definitely I mean, but being out of breath is a fairly common thing. If you give this guy enough PCP like, for example, like Enry said they gave me a hundred times the amount of LSD, so they gave these guys way too much of the drug for them to have a good time. Friday night already so these guys Are we there's if they would have given him less keep probably would have been able to do more just reiterate nineteen fifty five. nineteen. Seventy five! That's how long experiments went on for shouldn't is fifty five. This is sixty seven, Fifty five to sixty seven shouldn't. Have this just been sold in four hours? Well, we gave them drugs, they saw too much Ella. That was too much PCP right there, I'm pretty certain. Do you remember when we gave private Lerman like ninety seven milligrams of PCB and then he clung to the lamp for three days. Well, Japan's regular army, you want you want someone clinging to a lamp at sea spiders and gets winded and care or an obstacle course or do you want
somebody you I well never mind. Let's just just go with. Let's just go with that army, our strategy is called freak them out. So now this is the next drug that they test it on our soldiers, easy now. This was the thing that in cap that could capacity someone for up to three days correct and yeah it lasted for up to three days, they said that they rapidly mumbled, they were just pick obsessively at things. one guy sim, the guy that we talked about in the last episode, the wacky doctor with the arm bone. I miss him yeah. Well, we've got another wacky character coming out, so you know you'll fall in love again Henry. He said that subject sometimes display Something approaching with not in the form of word play the kind of sarcasm or unexpected frankness. So there's your like you liquor Ricky, driven
type they become. Is that what happens? It seems more. Like you know, kids say the Darndest things right, how many things being like your tongues? Real pink, but it's just cause. You fucking tripping ball, showing some width there, some good with and probably extremely insubordinate as far as an army guy goes right yet so the effects lasted for days at a time the event Here's they said that when they were on the drug they were cut off from their own minds, comply just kind of going from one experience to the next. They said some of the visions that they saw. One of them said he saw tiny baseball players playing baseball on a table top, Oh, that's all asleep, incredible. I would love to every one of these trips their describing. I feel comfortable, saying that I would enjoy one of incidents. the mole or different people are objects were just suddenly appear and then they suddenly disappear right.
Said this he said. I had a great urge to smoke and when I thought about it, cigarette appear to my hand. I could actually smoke the cigarette and hung down on it was pretty fuckin terrible as they started to come down. They had anxiety, aggression, pure fuckin terror, in fact catch. the guy, the apologist for all this and the guy. That says they actually did great work. He built padded cells to keep these guys from hurting themselves, while they were coming down one of them actually we escaped, he started, run around his thought that there were murderers after him, another one. that he saw bugs worms, one snake, one monkey and numerous rats and beds alone, lots of fucking laundry listed tears right there. I was just I just broken into the zoo and he thought that his skin was constantly covered in blood that he couldn't wash off another
one broke a wooden chair and smashed the hole in the wall after tearing off of four by seven foot panel of padding so that it took the assistance and catch himself to do the guy. He said that he thought that they were all trying to kill him. Of course, I mean that doesn't seem completely irrational. They are the people who poison them down boy where they were trip and nuts for three days I mean I remember I was on when I I was on one of my worst trips that I've ever had it's strange, the kind of the preoccupations you can have especially you almost on a normal dose of lsd and I got in my car and I appear to be very Small new car was very big and really freaked me. The book out. Did you drive your car? I got in the car. Was it moving? Guy did I got back to the house? There was a lot in between
it was just like. One of those things where I was driving is a con man he's like man, you know what I'm done tripping. I can get an I drive home and I got in a car and then it was just like man's horse, so big and I'm so small, and then I had a panic effect. I did a similar thing with chocolates on mushrooms. I remember that mushrooms, always Cape kept me awake and I was like I want to go see. My friends in Milwaukee and so I just took a couple: a chocolate, some and halfway through the trap, wholly Lord. That was an interesting drive and already I'm still makes me cry God, that's it. Of a band and everybody does heard sometimes and sometimes they her when their driving trip and nuts trying to go see somebody Saudi this there is a toilet in Lubbock Texas. That is a portal to Hell. I will attest that there. It is, but you know know, but eventually, if you wait it out, you can ride out of that toilet onto the roller coaster out into space,
you had your head in a toilet for a little while a long time, yeah real long time and the roller coaster to space was my bed see. That's the that's a great ending any television show you know what was it died with Dallas that ended in the snow glow no that would you have the shower. That's what that was, that was the shower. What was the snow Globe ending Saint elsewhere? Just a movie, a television series seems to end with the person's head in the toilet, and the whole thing was a trip. He a soldier, a nice, feel like every pretty much. Every single day, I'm waiting alike, wake up and be seven years old, again hearing me like a dynamic wake up and it's all been a weird long dream, but it is also because of smoke. A lotta we'd here yesterday it's la and you're living the dream, Henry and everyone's very proud of you. Thank you. You're welcome There is a particular experiment. They did on these guys with bees, and this one is extremely cruel. Can you answer what is be?
z. Is it a combo? Is a compound it'll guy, just a chemical, it's just like Alice deeds will outline its streets was etc. This is just a lad, manufacture drawn over. It was not a good one. Three days at a time is a bit much, you know pile and that the other they couldn't make it groovy enough to sell to America. So they're, like David for the fuckin for the iranian side, But that is an interesting point, though I mean we know about LSD. We know about PCP, and then you know there's a lot of series out there that the government kind of you know dropped a couple of bags on a street when they were walking to the old federal plot, or federal building or whatever well, PCP was originally made by a pharmaceutical company. As of all things, a sedative wow, they got it wrong. I'll tell you is that there was. There was actually released on national opposite day was off because there's a big prank day, so everything was kind of ok. They did a good job in keeping this
under wrap. So that's how dangerous it was yeah. It was just a bad drug and it could be that it was also very difficult to synthesize on. You know on the public one it's who knows about that stuff, but in nineteen sixty two Ketchum had an entire Hollywood style set constructed in the middle of the forest outside of Edgewood. As a makeshift communications outposts. So what the plan was is that they would get three soldier and this elbows for three days and all of them, except for one of the duties, would be given busy. One of the guys would be given a placebo and these soldiers would receive a stream of commands and messages all based on a fictional scenario right and so here's my question: if you got the placebo and both of the people around, you are tripping nuts, all three at three out of the four three out of the four: don't you feel like
you're, the one tripping or you're in the minority everyone's like no. This is normal to be up at three o'clock in the morning. We've got things to do what's wrong with you. Man, that's, what's probably so, incredibly cruel about the experiment, also because placebo effects are known to be real. Like people are you watching, other people triples. You are definitely gonna start feeling residual effects. You're gonna feel like you're, going nuts to and watching them loose. It's gotta be torture and they also up paranoia in this room they for summaries, and put a huge switch on the wall and hung assign above it suggested danger, do not touch, of course, for no reason to good. Good way to tell someone and not touch something right, yeah, and then they put cameras, behind the wall panels, so they watch him the entire time, and so after the bz took effect. They hurricane and children and alarm that a chemical attack. It happened and as far as these guys knew this was all real,
did radically a chemical chemical attack did happen, but in some three or four and three out of four the so all the men went to put on their gas masks, but there were is the one. that couldn't do. His name was Ronald as the draws knee very, very fuck and sad story, and this guy tiny little guy was sold Is very mild, Mount Mannered, yeah, of course, and add, said catch him said later. If he panicked at some point, the others could no doubt subdue him aside of course, that the lower dosages would not remember. Remit render them to incompetent to react appropriately, so they gave him. They gave him the delivery producing dose they gave. This is the guy that got the highest of everyone and the smallest one would specifically choose the weakest. It was like their fate. Would they give with certain it's like when they were doing the astronaut class experiments. The idea was to choose the strongest soldiers in order to test them in order
I'd like basically see how much they could withstand with these. experiments. They were specifically choosing the weakest members to give them most drugs too yeah. That's because we wanted to win the space race yeah. I don't know what war we were trying to. Even this is a cold war stuff right yeah all of it's called war, so the entire, the entire drug trip of Tsar Daphne lasted about thirty six hours. He would salute officers that weren't there. He thought that a drape petitioning the toilet, just a bunch of dude hanging out that weren't there up all night. He pays he'd mumble. He tried to escape, but they wouldn't they wouldn't let him out and, as he likes trying started to come out of it a little bit. He just sit in front of the switchboard. And one of the guys said to him like. Ok, you can't hear anything unless you have the telephone your ear and the only thing he said was it wasn't working with the electrodes.
Yes, of course, that is always a problem with the telephone got the electrodes in your brain, your brain jelly, it so hard to have the telephone up to Europe. was all you'll hear. Is Madonna's Gavo yeah, it's Madonna's vogue that keeps getting kind of pumped in by our own brain Similarly, was act and sort of like an average tea party or out of it, the fourth of July Random, salutes the over the thirty six hours catch him in the other. Scientists fed two hundred phony tactical messages. Warnings of chemical attacks in various other pieces of intelligence to them in the room. The only problem was, they ran out of script before the experiment end. They fuckin blue their load on all the things they had to say: so they just go to go straight to the blooper reel yeah. You can't improvise this. He said he said in his memory. He said in an urgent brainstorming session. We put our heads together and came within agonizingly, improvised scenario. We told the military
communicators to start sending new intelligence to the group inside of the room in a simple code. The messages informed, the man that enemy forces were planning to move a trend. in loaded with chemical weapons along a certain route, eventually catch him in the good technical resorted to Jibrash using poker terms referring to the dealer and a full house as the bezel. So your struggle to interpret their God, because it's good just being like and we get it's, is their draws me that draws near you wouldn't believe it, but there's this pelicans and they're playing they're all playing cribbage out here and something is there anything you can do about it? There's one guy in there
who was stolen sober just like at what is happening at the end, but it is as interested the possible effect on me. I'm sure you is affected by a meme reminds me sort of those of the differences between Charlie Chaplin Buster Keaton, like butter. Keaton world was crazy chapel and he was the one making a world crazy. This guy it was to use just living in a bus or keep moral down. He kept calling you know every time they cinemas build a true, MRS Ries and heavy theses guys being burgers. He just gonna show up and he's gonna he's gonna menu to eat him, but you can't you're, not oh I like that trip. I always eat the burger. I always eat the burger man, to forget. What could you do it he's gonna go these dig in at the window. He yeah in ninety five. He killed himself and also killed his wife sure sure so, its assent
ending negative effects. He was old, though he made it a long time, yeah yeah. You can see that as a common thing. Basically, all of these guys had a very bad end, because most of them were pretty very because they did know what they were being given any weren't totally explained to that. It wasn't all explain to them like what they were going through and honestly, the doctors didn't even know what was going to happen to them when they were administering to them. It wasn't that it wasn't even totally explained it wasn't explained it. They were lied to yeah. Yes, so the a lot of these people thought they were genuinely going insane times, just the thought of being that you feel your genuinely going insane can kind of spin off down in black lives here,
Let's hear some testimony from a guy talking about that exact file. This is one of the Edgewood peep two weeks after I left so is when the flashback started and they have lasted no twenty years until it. I got some medication to help me control it. It don't never stop in your mind, The two medications keep you from being terrified over, and this is the way I've lived all these years, but I thought I was going plum crazy and I was afraid of that too. I didn't know what to do and I lived with it until I got out of service in
nine, fifty nine I came home and tried to work. I could not hold work. Can I hold a job, my mind just wouldn't function? What I will say is I go plum crazy. Every single time there's a fruit sale of the Alberson. That's a different story: that's a joke! That's a joke and not what happened? No it just where, because you, when you think of soldiers coming home for more you think of their families, are applying them random. an the on the streets, hailing them as heroes. This guy just came back a person from Woodstock needed, Came back like like the character from tax, That was that Lloyd, not with that guy's name, Travis Bissell, big old, you Brigham big name airlines with pickled Midge Travis Bank Robber Becum. He is very eats into it. Honestly, it's a fucking shame because they had no idea what they went through an day the in the again what we said before there was no outpatient programme
No, there was no helping these people and a lot of times what you'll hear is like with with with another one of these testimonies it. Basically he says he's says he's like I had to keep my secret a secret like, like of these guys like leaves, since it can think about this, you should not normal flashbacks than say. I've had flashbacks, like certain patterns for me. I've done enough ho, lucid gins that it's like I'll have like an experience where, like I had an acid flashback during the middle of pretty face the first, these, and when I was submerged in water and I had a pot, my head out of the water and I I had a full on flash back and its vivid and crazy. But not the level of these guys, how much ass if they had to take the deer. Congress ordered that all the test subjects were to be given health check ups, but out of thousand five five hundred people were were record as to be entrusted with various drugs. Only two hundred and twenty were reexamined and of those
The report's said that there were no physical, long term risks, but out of those people polled twenty four percent, of them reported long term adverse effects in all of those were psychological. There are I testimonies on badgered, Edward just guy There is another guy that that, just as like he's like, I can't touch my kids I can't tell my wife what I going through. He said he once put his wife through a wall and didn't remember it, I was just something that he just went fuckin insane. He just a day He has not been as the years go by, he gets worse and worse and more and it is, I was actually to bring up the Roderick Adele NFL like concussion situation, is very similar. You know they cannot see for so long and the reason and catch him actually does give a reason for why they didn't tell these guys? That was. gonna be any that there could be any sort of adverse effects. He said That is the reason why they didn't tell them was because
He said it was like a doctor telling upation that, there was something wrong with them. When there was less than one percent chance that they might act. We have that, but I will say: that's that's the doctors I have to tell you if your possibly gonna die yeah. I think so to me. Like you should you should have at least imagined what could happen to them. isn't that exactly opposite as a matter of fact of what a doctor is opposed to. Do the Dodgers always supposed to tell you what could be wrong gap right now, but he said that a few days there was less that he thought there was less than one percent chance of them having any kind of ever psychological effects. Rice out, he thought that if the heat he told them that there was the possibility of sight logical after effects than those after effects would be imagined that the guys and started thing like. Oh this is because
This lsd experiment. The reason why I've got anxiety is because of this LSD experience right, we also say too, is that there may be. There also is some truth that I mean again the people who don't want to talk about it. I imagine, could have had a positive experience and there were probably were people who did have a positive experience. Even man said one of the guys in a bad job. Edgewood basically set out. I would I would go back and I do it again. We all know. people that can take drugs and people that can't and growing up. There were people who went into the military, and then there was people who went to college and the people who went to college could take rugs and for the most part, the people that I know that went into the military, we're not drug addicts, and so you are also. Testing on some of the more Taipei would type ape alright. Just very, like matter of fact like this is the way the world is, and nothing will ever change it. These are the facts, absolutely in and something specifically like LSD like the idea, is that I feel again if, if you have not experimented
with LSD. It is a worthwhile beautiful thing to do it's scale. Engines are really great for your brain, but the thing is: that you need to be a willing participant in creating a proper environment This was not exactly the groove. the environment to be given a hundred times the normal dose of LSD. You got a bunch of people with huge, a huge teeth and crew cut, scream and agile one test. doktor said that the entire experience quote tugged at his Patriot some care fucking bad guys I actually did sue the government to find out what the drugs they had to find out what drugs actually gave him and the government did admit they elect guess we did give you an overdose of lsd, but you not able to sue for any monetary gain or for any sort of paying for medical bills or anything like that, because the government has immunity from being sued by its own servicemen. Well, isn't that
convenient yeah yeah. I didn't know that, but yeah a marine cannot sue government. For anything that the government has done. That's a good, that's a net ned! that doesn't exist in any other area of american life. Now it just seems like a view of the of all the people who sue the? U S, government it would people that got hurt by serving them. Yeah. I mean you know as a soldier saying that you know, because my lieutenant made a mistake. I lost my arm, so I hold the government culpable.
I mean then again, though, that went but part of that when they sued them and basically they popped out. On the other side, when journalists Linda Hunt basically said when they went through all the paperwork and they were like, there are eight nazi scientists from project paperclip that are fucking. The bosses of this whole program right, it's just like, and so they were trying to say like oh, you can't compare it to the Nazi like experiments and like what Mangala did. But it's like you got the fucking staff staff, all this shit or all like trying not to zig dial each other like a fucking doctor, strange club, but it's like we have to trust them, because now they're american yeah yeah, exactly fact the dissenting judge the case saying that the service men couldn't sue the government he compared it to nazi experiments. In his judgment you don't mean that province
he's a by name: it's a tough cell, though you have. You have certain people who were sent into war zones where the army, in the? U S, government knew there were just gonna die. There were just human shields for the most part, those guys you now they that's real heroes, and then you have all other people who were just like me completely mutilated and mangled because of wrong government information that they were given about invading certain homes and stuff. And then you have somebody being like they gave me a set. They gave me that that kids like to do on the weekends? There isn't a lot of sympathy. I don't think from the american people when it comes to the people who were forced to take hallucinogenic party drugs. It seems like it's the downside of having a volunteer army where it's like that. This is the problem that the that this was wasn't volunteer, and yet this wasn't this Still he wasn't. No. This is a guess. This was draft nome again turn. Vietnam is draft, so yeah they were. They were all just stuck between Iraq and aren't you. They were, they were asked to like who wants to get out of weekend cooking duty who doesn't
clean the kitchen this weekend. But if you frame it like that, who wants to be scrubbing old, fucking lasagna off of pans, especially when Linda makes it because Linda's got a heavy hand with the fucking reckon yeah turn up the oven to are too high, Cornelis Zonia stuck all over the pan. While I want to talk about Dick to go back to Edgewood for a bed a man who started off in Edgewood but actually took the entire operation, fight on behalf of the United States Army, a man named major Earnest, Robert Clovis Clovis, so the army not content with just sticking to their own soldiers in America. In a military base tested on them, they decided they needed to take the whole operation over to Europe, so they,
had a three man unit, which was named the special purpose team, all right from this from the jerk right. Yes, a special purpose that was an officer from Army Intelligence, a doctor from the medical core and an officer from Edwood who was major earnest Robert Clovis. He was a chemist and a psychic. just he worked very closely with our man SAM that we about in the last episode cluck Cluck, a chicken based clown, yeah clown and a chicken costume does it have to be. Do I have to explain everything? I would only purchase your services if you also have a clown in chicken and clown makeup. The chicken themes clown right hold. Do you hold a chicken in clown makeup as well? That would be like a fun side. Kick I'm clocking clock and I hope everybody of Clovis, like
whereas the people who worked at Edgewood was a bit of an eccentric. I he captain entire Cabinet Phil the little jars and vials one the jars were one of the vials was labeled putrescence, well yeah, that's just the pickled eggs, Henry thieves in class does well. It was a substance that smelled like rotting flesh and he was holiday. Stinky jello I love and sir sounded better just have the Nutella please, and he maintains that it could be used as a non lethal weapon. Absolutely because it just thinky juice and you just spray stinky juice on somebody, and it just makes them. I guess it makes him added meetings, I love it when I was a better it's a better time. You know when there were just like thinking of warfare being like this will make him feel all egg. That's all right, So in April nineteen sixty one. These special purpose team. They flew over to Europe.
called operation third chance, that's kind of on the nose. I love that wearily visitor third chance. Europe saved arises twice this is it their whole thing was just to dose people with LSD and see what happened and in each country they join us. Local operatives and they'd rehearse these huge scenarios to bring people to the spot where they could be given LSD and interrogated they would go to do. Is we're going to give out this free stuff? It's called disco right, the potatoes in there. We got some carrots in there and it's just fucking. Just like you see that pink stuff all over the top. It that's prelist right. from now on. From now on, Europe from on your official names or the glitter boys there and dance guys. We undercover you put on that Ellie, daylight hat and you shut up or they would bring people in that they thought were. Soviet dissidents are people that heads
sort of connection to the soviet right. Anybody with a wool hat I'd, bring them in and they'd make them come Will they offer them refreshments and when they gave the person the drink, of course would be powdered, lsd inside, and then they would start interrogating the person, but they weren't content to just it. They thought alright, we've done it on regular people. Let's try it on an american soldier over here in France, so they gave LSD. This guy's name was private James Thorn well. From South Carolina and he was the only black guy at the entire station. Apparently You had a bit of a contentious relationship with his superior. I hear demoted and he was also suspected of sealing a hundred and seventy two classified documents that gone missing, so they figure this guy, we don't!
so what happened was his superior stole one hundred and seventy documents and then blamed it on him? I would imagine so yeah I on only the only black soldier in the middle of France. Then they gave him a bunch of LSD, yeah yeah yeah. They figured we don't like this guy. We need to escape, go he's black. We can do whatever we want. What was the name of that movie? The fuck that movie so needs to be a film about this unsung american hero by the way, the guy that they gave a hundred times the dosage, the normal dose of acid to it. Edwin that guy was also black also interesting is that this guy actually turned into the story of the legend of Bagger Vance. I didn't know that, but that's further would have magic caddy after so they for ninety nine days, this guy, possibly the worst out of any other person who got went under LSD testing for ninety days. He was on acid and was interrogated continuously. He was in.
Small room kept awake for really long stretch. The time they wouldn t access to food water, a toilet one of the interior So if you talk you get your physical needs taken care of, he was beaten call them racial slurs day wanted to talk about the ad daddy was basically trying to kind of gaslight him into to talking about. I guess the documents thing, he was doing. The ideas are also just kind of see what would happen when he was out. He told hid the inherent Irrigators told him that they were there too protect him from white soldiers who were trying to hunt him down and kill him, they told they were protecting him from assassins working in French and and and eventually the guy. Just I mean he of I couldn't fucking. Take it anymore. a big, oh shit, on his interrogators desk. Thank all that's great
when that happened to him, because he knew how special his desk was. Everybody knew because that's where he kept his eggs, it all comes down to funny college prank. Doesn't it it really does, and he did a hell of a job keeping himself saying or saying he would pay. imaginary chess on the wall. He dictated a whole novel like you. Just just did stated out out loud. I It really wasn't mean it wasn't good enough. that every day like he didn't know who he was where he was. He didn't know I was happening in finally after ninety days. The army did a test on military psychiatry to the tests on him and said that he exhibited quote an anti. Social personality with paranoid trends. So weird he didn't like you did me, come up star after this wild. However, he is one of the very few people to actually gain sort of monetary settlement from the? U S: government, for the mistreatment and nineteen,
to South Carolina. Senators obtained a private congressional bill form any awarded six hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. Wow, that's actually very impressive. I believe Strom Therman was the was the senator there in South Carolina the time really strong, yeah? Really, yes, that's weird, yes, The segregation is racist, yeah. I know that's why it's weird well, four years after that was found dead in a swimming pool at the age of forty at the age of forty six years old. Isn't that interest? That's the exact story to some degree of making dead. Of a swimming pool. It is. It is such a rainy like again it. She is just show see a lot of even modern day of bullying within the army and, like any the armed forces, its aid to machismo thing. It's been fought for a long time and these poor fuck
it's just it's horrible, never, never get a swimming pool. Kids will die in or you'll die in it. It's the problem is the swimming pool. I agree. Thank you Henry. That's the problem. Yeah yeah and there was another loss lawsuit into nine was done by the Vietnam Veterans, American, the swords to plow shares and eight Edgewood veterans. Instead, the CIA, the army, various other agencies busy day. What All they wanted was they wanted the the core to defend it and to determine the defendants, actions were illegal and that the defendants have a duty to notify all victims and to provide them with healthcare, and the plane actually did not seek anymore, Terry damages at all, only. They saw a quote only declaratory, an injective relief and redress for what they claimed with several decades of neglect and the US government's use use of them. As guinea pigs a go on biological agent testing experiments and the judge
found that the army has an ongoing duty to warn and an the army through the deviate or otherwise to provide test subjects with newly acquired information that may affect their well being. It has learned since its original notification now and in the future it becomes available. So as of two thousand say you're, sorry yep, that's all that was yeah, so that's pretty much it, but on the other hand, it is the books now that from two thousand and nine on, if there is any sort of medical testing them by law, the army has to inform them of the effects. That it has had on various other soldiers or the possible effects that it may have on them in the future. I want to sign up for the Molly one. That's gonna be huge. I can't wait on the new whole hotest
processing a host to be released back into the? U United States population. I'd like to be a part of that test, and they don't got to warn me a shit because I know what's good, that's right! Well, the official department of defends position all this, as they said that they quote did not detect any significant long term health effects on the Edgewood arson. volunteers so while they did have to not, while the army did have to acknowledge that these tests were done, they do have to acknowledge that they had to give these people is information. Their official stance is still that they did nothing wrong. You have cut because, in the end they said, look we sit constantly it's all of the different validations of like they volunteered we gave them operate. It is a leave, even though it was all bullshit. That's the only thing. Never I mean they can't really justify income ultra, but that this is I think that if they can justify it they well. This is a little bit like Mk Ultra light, though it's very much MK ultra light.
what it is, is it's basically it gave them the due diligence and the research to know how much it's like. Basically, all they needed to out of this experiment was just directly see how much deals D does it take for their brains to fucking. Like LI, really crawl out of their nose, there's that, but these dose measures from measurements that pharmaceutical companies say or recommended for individuals those those don't come from nowhere. You know, I'm sure all these studies were used by big farmer and like tat to her to create a bunch of different matter that were currently all addicted to you know, you may now want to give him this much pc because it makes them really bad. It obstacle array of Abu noted Then it's pretty much the story of Edgewood. That's intense. I mean, like I'm glad that is covered by the new by the new Yorker, but it's you know that All the information is agreed, tested are and are soldiers and again a just proves. If one thing is real, if the bees
Greece, things are documented in proven by our courts, and what does it mean? What else is real now? What So what do we not know about? I think this one's actually not the worst situation. That's ever habit of penalties, the worst thing The US government has ever done, but it's an interesting one. That's for damn sure it's just. I would still even knowing this If I had to go back into a time machine- and I was sitting somewhere and summers like three day weekend- you wanted one edge I'd, be like absolutely. Let's rock and roll yeah. It's fucking knew this pro. Can I bring my guitar? That's what you want right, but it's just it's you know. Hopefully you would be like that. But the problem is it's just again: it's it's more about mentality! It's how our government views our soldiers as like pieces on a chest, that's it. Let us other views, but that's other soldiers view themselves in a lot of ways. Yeah Sl there's said, but we so this is. We got this so fuckin by hope. I hope you ate some mushrooms
when you're doing it your own way, your own Edgewood experiments, but it involves like kids, some fucking leg. Oh yeah. I have one wall that you're gonna repaint in a week or two hour the next day, get some finger and just have a bunch of people over ruin, a Wall nine years, a couple other good years, coupled tips aright, a bag of random ass costumes and put them in a duffel, put it a bunch of random costumes and go out to quote your college or the fucking main square, your tiny town and just walk around and eat a bunch of mushrooms or just walk around, and you know, try buying bicycles. That's a great idea: and go to the cave, comedy radio page and buy a t, shirt. We're donate cave comedy. Radio Yoda, concise. Last Pakistan left, that's where you can go to buy. Your very last podcast on the t shirt you get it free with a donation of twenty five dollars or more, if you're, a United States resident or forty dollars more
You live anywhere else in the entire world and you don't even have to give us twenty. If you wanna just go in and give us dollar five dollars sub, MIKE that every tiny little bit Alps and we appreciate anything, can give to us for doing this. Show here because we are play, on is trip out to the UK. That's that's a of what's going to help us find that which were very excited for him way. UK tour. So, in order to help us out with that would be amazing if you went to Itunes and like left a comment or something and be like Ben's tall and then he's also fat, and then he's also the ugliest a something like that. It doesn't matter what you say just I know Uk listeners out there like citizen, EMO, Cave Germany, radio with gmail dot com or go to the Facebook group imposing just let us know You live like. Let us know where in England you know the biggest concentration last podcast fans are so yeah. We're planning in this thing out and we're gonna, be we're. Gonna become a fuckin England were
become England. Happy of all the suggestions people gave me to go to LOS Angeles, I'm in LOS Angeles, I'm going to those places, I'm fucking the report from them. I want to thank Annie for the good luck, run, that I was sent out so nice and I I You know what I want added today. I need a heartfelt fell Satan from everybody So when I need give Henry NICE Hale same mark, MIDAS, Hale say and Satan Satan. Do we think this KEN kid Andrew tell you. I think I can do for finnish, wonder, poor little grab, bag of add some wonderful bones and wonderful comic book. Henry got a city which I have for you. When you get back and I saw movie midnight skater young fellow awesome. Now you guys are the best you're, always the best people of his planet, and we also got some particular
fucking awesome little envelope in the mail yeah we got from listeners, Elena Rice and Josh, Graham out of LOS Angeles. They gave us a little baggie that has actual fragments of The fireplace tat, its home from the night the Manson murders, unbelievable. This is like I'm holding it in my hand. Right now. It's this dearly departed has several Tate Labianca related books, death certificates in autopsy reports and other official documents available to purchase an our gallery so that tail Satan They departed, Torres, dot com and I think, Mclenan Jason's, fucking, amazing. That's so make gostel tions to you both Magus, Elations and, of course, hail yourself and Howgen help me, and we will talk to you soon see if buckers.
Transcript generated on 2020-10-15.