On the second part of our Jonestown series we cover the early days of the People's Temple from Jim Jones' hightailing it out of Indianapolis because of nuclear anxiety to their very first compound outside of Ukiah, CA and all of the bizarre things that happened in between.
I Can Feel It Coming - Machine Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
Samba Isobel - Machine Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
There's no place to escape to this is the last time
This is going to come out sometime time after the news of this weekend, but I think
it's nice for Hawaii to feel some pants? Oh dear, so, relax. You think! That's right all the time. Do you really want to say that on camera on microphone, this is going to be like it's going to come out like a full week after the Hawaii thing, yeah he's already out of the news. It's totally out of the news,
welcome to the show everyone. I embed castles- and this is the last podcast on the left, but you
word intro, so you know that already, but per my
contract. I will remind you. This is the last podcast on the left. Who am I? You are Marcus Park? Who are you? I am Ben kissing his out there in Atlanta and that is Atlantis Henry Zebrowski, it's cold in here. It is very cold inside of this apartment. But honestly, would it be nice? You have thirty minutes. You think your about to get blown up by a fuqing nuclear bomb.
You could say. Whatever you want yeah and then you technically then you'll have to deal with it. One slash two an hour.
Is that what you're concerned with like the nuclear missile comes in all your concerned about is getting out of free speech jail. Obviously it's working right. Well, I'm sorry what happened to your Atlanta Falcons there over the weekend as well as making instruction? Oh my goodness.
Right? Well speaking of free speech, who some guy took full advantage of it and it led to the death of a lot of people. Jim Jones Jonestown
to this is intense. So when we last left Jim Jones had just found it, peoples Temple giving a name to an organization whose membership would fluctuate from dozens to thousands over its twenty three year existence, but in nineteen fifty five Jonestown was still a long ways away. It would take years for Jim Jones to build it, but, as we talked about last episode, he'd already figured out the basics by one thousand nine hundred and fifty five. He just needed to take it to the next level. Remember this!
when you start your cult. The big thing is patience right. You have to drop seeds early, it takes a long time. You had a built in generations. These are the people the way things last a long time. This is wrong tying signs
we still going on is because it's deep seated it takes so just give it that uhm give it that slow cook and remember time keeps
Taking into fasting would expect. They don't think you must forgot about Stephenville. I don't need. It feels forgot those sage words from Steve Miller Band absolutely, but don't make your doomsday date too early. That's redemption! Rikio made the mistake of ninety two was right around the corner that they should have pushed out till like two thousand and twenty five push it into the future, build it up and say: oh, this is going to be a lot of schitt. Well, that was actually
the genius things Jim Jones is he never actually put a doomsday date on his own called. He put doomsday dates around him, but he
put one on the cult itself with him
we'll see if you follow Jim Jones, you avoid the doomsday date. The one thing
important important to know is a large part of the membership Temple membership always was, and always would be elderly women
example, which we think Jim Jones like looked at. The crowd was just like I've done it
Finally, look at all of this crepe paper.
I love looking at every single human being here whose arms I could break if I flick their wrists with the strength of flicking a sugar packet. You just remind me of that story of my friend who worked in the nursing home to the patients would get their skin snagged on.
Random, like I, don't know why their nails hanging out with them just peel right off their body like just as you said, paper mache.
A congressman and senators are in their 70s right now is so easy to just take him out in the White House by just by getting a zamboni and just driving through Congress, just sweep them up with the sweepers he fall apart. They literally would they would turn into like pulled pork. That would be a good scene
scream queens, which remind me of all of this. This
ode to the way Jim Jones is able to ingratiate himself with old people, and so one of the Peoples Temple's. First altruistic projects was taken. Elderly congregants into the person
home of gym in Marceline and eventually that endeavour grew to
several nursing home facilities- incorporation size. It was they were good. They were good nurse.
Homes. They worked really hard to making a super high quality yeah. They were called the nursing homes in this work. Would nursing homes is to Jim Jones? Is when nursing? What magic Johnson was? The car washes that's
he franchise, also a very convenient aspect of the nursing home angles of what he would do with these old people is that he would get them to give them the leases to their homes, and then he would take their homes and absorb all their assets. So it's it's a really fast way to get money. Is it just to adopt
old woman specials like ninety five to ninety seven she's not going to be around for that long. She's not even know you're, not wiping her ask anymore. You leave her up in the closet until she's gone, and then you get all this stuff. So that's not good. Did you learn nothing from Billy Madison? That's Ben Stiller's approach! Happy happy, Gilmore, sorry, Billy Madison! Well, that's why
another way is that this whole nursing home thing worked for Jim Jones. The other ways is that they took care of the elderly, and so they gained the communities, trust and three it gave members of the Peoples Temple jobs together these three
the money, the jobs and the community care would be integral to the development of peoples Temple both in Indianapolis and beyond Jim
who founded a soup kitchen type, CAFE called the free restaurant, which serves about two thousand eight hundred people every week. He organized
nothing drives and he put together youth programs that kept kids off the streets
I was doing good work and it was a lot of hard work and he realizes, and so that's where these games start playing out right where it in the end they get a again. This looks told the kosher looks great right, so he's trying to help you in kind and he is helping humankind and a lot of it is genuine.
Promise. It's so small, it's just a small amount of people he's reaching in this is still just shity. Indie
here. I mean he needs to figure out. I don't think that's the official Slogan Indianapolis, not we're done for me. I we had a great time. Minneapolis. We love the city, I loved Indianapolis, with crime com. There was wonderful, it was actually surprisingly beautiful. It was a beautiful town, but you know yeah as positive as all this was Henry said like this was all small, fries, Jim, actually one political influence and the person to help him. There was Marceline, so you're telling me the way to get political power in this country is not embracing older african American,
that's, not the road to the White House, and this doesn't seem like it. Yes, serving free soup doesn't get you there, except for Bernie Sanders who just ate a lot of free super. Oh yeah, a lot of it and it is now by the way, look at Alabama. We won't go into it, see at First Jim Jones. Did
This is SARA. Lee have a talent for civics user.
Of course, he didn't necessarily know how to move in those social circles, but luckily, for him, his wife, a grown up in a politically active family. She
set as a scout to various civic meetings across Indianapolis, taking notes on policy to Quorum and who,
local movers and shakers work. Well, I on
We believe that he specifically chose Marceline as his wife because of this fact right back in
It seem more like they were in love. She was kind of the hot nurse. He was the of the of the phone nurse that made smart passes on it and it was like, but I she he saw those qualities. I think I knew the right came from civic back
and as all these things kind of came together, he was like. Oh yes, the your purpose has been revealed to me and then she just fit right in
she was, I think she was excited to be a part of the entire movement you she'd. She liked it all the volunteering she loved, the nursing home she took issue personally personally, was in charge of a lot.
Lake June and Johnny Cash June. The establishment Johnny the rebel, but who did the audience relate to mister cash, so after
So we went to all these meetings should report back to Jones and then, when Jim Jones himself showed up to the next meeting days or weeks later, he knew what to say:
how to say it in Kuda say it to instantly giving him credibility. But politics wasn't the only place where Jim Jones had his attention in the mid to late 50s. That's when he discovered.
Father Divine aka, the messenger aka Reverend Major, jealous divine WWE manager. He does he he you know 'cause, you have to be to name yourself, jealous divine used to be very, very confident,
that: will love it yeah I mean his uh, his lodge
for calling himself jealous was, I am a jealous god, and so he said that God's name is jealous and so God's name. If God's name is jealous, then my name is jealous. You call me Reverend major jealous divine. Why do I have a feeling this guy has in assistant solely to rub butter on his feet? I feel like this is going to come. Rub butter on my feet. You know
a column loaves for a how hard, at that, how I punish these big cracked feet by
jamming him into these shoes. How does this get me closer to God? Again, Mister jealous rub,
feet and you'll, see my friend Jim Jones, pretty much stole father, Divine's entire act and repackaged.
Sort of like what Elvis did not black arm be stars with what a lot of white people that, with a lot of black people stuff? That is true and what Ryan did to Elvis all right all right, a rhyme was great but Ryan. It was different,
it different it way different. I really think it's true
Jim Jones sort of was, I mean Jim Jones.
Please the garage rock of cold leaders here,
have taken all of these things. I would say that these are good thing. He took a good thing. He wanted for cold leaders.
For the rest, but he was a guy that he invented a lot of the stuff that we're going to see became the trope of the cold leader, but we're actually going to see as that most of those turns the classic cult leader turns he stole from
Father Divine, like it's like Father Divine, was doing this since the 20s and he
figure it out along time ago how to manipulate a group of people into doing things that they didn't want to do he's taking it to the next level, though, perhaps
Jim Jones is the Elvis of cult leaders. This guy took it
everyone knows who Jim Jones is. Just like everyone knows who Elvis said. I heard that very good Marcus. I heard that so yes, it's nice
Nineteen, father, divine he'd run the kind of figurehead centric, black and white, integrated kind of called the Jim Jones was aspiring to divine.
He ran a tight ship on his compound. He had successfully convinced his followers,
he was God on earth and he had his pick of female followers. Nice divine had such a hold on his congregation that when his wife, the night
called. Where was the pen- and I appended I opinion because they go to the doctor- they really diagnosis. Everybody. I've never heard that name before
PEN and I it's either, but I don't see the pen and Irpinia ok, ornament and India
we could repeat inconvenient, but they called her mother Divine and when she died in nineteen. Forty two
father divine replaced her with a twenty one year old, Canadian, named Edna Richings, saying
his wife had jumped bodies from an elderly black woman to a supple young white one and nobody said anything you have
pretty good at talking.
especially like talking to that Edna girl was just like, so I'm who know you my wife
Well, it's like the Spirit gym.
It's. You are now you're, my wife, you know I'm saying no,
don't, but I'm just happy to be some place, it's not backwards. Ask Canada! It's like the movie Little Nicky Jump in body was she was his personal secretary, and so I think that they possibly had a relationship going on before Mother Divine died and then, when my
divine died. That's when she jumped bodies over to this other girl, Edna
and Edna got the name of sweet angel, Divine cool,
it's going to say? I hope that Travis understands that one day would Marcus leans over. After maybe
Maybe this sometime in the past you mean, like you, know, Travis uh. I had a dream last night that Carolena Joe
I don't really understand the sleeping with your secretary yeah Travis, of course, the longtime producer here at the last podcast that way now this whole thing this whole path to success for Father divine. It was not
Ticular Lee Smooth, nor was it easy, but followed divine was living proof that a man could gain an keep followers an it could all be done relatively peacefully and Jones. He saw something to aspire to and he learned everything he could from Father Divine who, like most cult, lead
enjoy having his ego stroked. So he was all it 'cause, Jim Jones came in. He had been running
a successful integrated church in Indianapolis raise a young dude and he came into to
compound Father Divine saw somebody that he could brag to essentially
but also remember this when, when he was doing the beginnings of this church was like it was very socialist and was very very personal. He dealt with his congregation very closely Jim Jones and he dressed like
Yeah like he dressed like hand me down clothes, his furniture was filled with his house is filled with rundown furniture everywhere he walked the walk and that's what he's basically saying is that, like we don't need, we sure call luxury's. We live a life of service and
chastity and a lack of money, and also then he walks in the Father Divine's mansion, where he
got full on hair of women with their nipples visible.
Full like crazy or maybe adding a little bit here- nipples truly million million million maroon over the nipples everywhere. You know because he could infer that there were nipples out nipples,
they look at you like in the house. Nice furniture he's got like a chaise lounge like he's, got a full pouch that just for lying, because you ate too much organ
and then this is true. Father design trusted, father, divine trust in beautiful clothes, beautiful suits and obviously Jim Joe.
S walked in there was like I've, really been this up. Well, that's what I was thinking too. You know with that you we talk about ego out of retirement homes, old folks, home it old folks,
homes in soup. Kitchens he's not like living the high life at all, no, not at all. Like he's a he is living. The true socialist ideal, like he's he's walking the walk like Henry said, but I think one of the most important things that Jim Jones learned from Father Divine was the skill of
improvisation, because the first thing it he sat down there and they said zip is that
you see that, as I saw, I do work now.
Little dip steps up we're going to take this we're going to play the ball, we're going to form a baller enerji, I'm going to toss it too and you're going to pretend to catch it. But if there's
It could be a real ball. No, no! No! It's improv we're going to do a thing called big booty, we're all going to sing a song. Wherever goes a big booty, big booty, big booty, ahah of big Boob,
and then we pick we all give each other numbers. This sounds stupid, yeah, yeah, yep, that's the thing with improve everything is imaginary, include,
the money in your bank account not a way to make a living. It is not. It is a tool to use so, as I said, follow Divine's wife,
Naya had died of cancer back in the 40s. This was
spite divines promises to both her and his congregation that he was going to heal her of the cancer and everything is going to be fine and this failure put into question whether or not divine had any powers at all. But when
found Edna renamed or sweet angel divine. He.
Able to say that pain and I had just taken- it
form. So in essence, he had cured her because she
really dead. Alright excuse me Mister Father Divine, not much like sweet mother,
on an optimal line at all
ugly you're, shittin, old and fat and dumpy
so, if I just close your eyes,
close, your eyes, Roger ET closes. If I
a small, my wife to death. In her sleep I can just replace her with their younger one and just tell everyone that she's, the younger one
that seems dangerous slippery slope, that's what I say well, in other words with Jim Jones learned from Father Divine with sidestepping bulshit and in these cult people kind of have to just go with it. I think,
is also in sidestepping bulshit, pretty sure sounds familiar wailing Jennings Song yeah. That's true, so these people in these calls
I have to lie to themselves and say like oh course, I like that totally makes sense. How could I have ever doubted this guy? Because, as we
always say with cults to question the leader is to question every decision you've made up to that point. Since joy
up Scientology. Being the obvious example of that yeah I mean after
Scientology, specifically 'cause you put in seventy five thousand bucks. One hundred thousand
bucks. So yeah, that's a horrible decision. It's always about money.
Engine Joe has already set they'll be the, but we're talking about like even just joking around is that he did plant the seed at the very beginning of doing the money is not important. Money is an important just give me your
honey. Please give me your money. Money is not important. I must have it though yeah and that's exciting thing is that at first all that money did go back into the coffers. It did go back into these socialist prince
but as they started getting more and more money and as they started really getting big,
money suddenly stopped going back into the socialist peoples offers like it. There was a ceiling on how much the people got, but I think when they
Jonestown finally went down. They found all of the different bank accounts that Jim Jones had been holding. I think it
somewhere around ten million dollars. Did they had in their car, still flavor, eight still flavor of Gatorade. I mean that's help but think about this. That's what what's his name, the who's, the guy who looks like a big white testicle with the hair, on top of it
Steve, Forbes, Sheldon, Adelson, Warren Buffett. All of them look exactly the same, but Warren Buffett gets the same breakfast sandwich everyday for two hundred and forty nine from Hardee's yeah. That's how billionaires keep their money just to comment
like you and I well as far
as I've seen. People who had already said yes to the bullshit Jim Jones saw that and follow divines people.
And also in that he saw a shortcut. He saw a very
easy way to build his own congregations. He followed define was getting on up in the years,
Jim's plan was to wait until followed, Divine died and when he did he'd first
It's sweet angel divine that just like her father, Divine, hey Joe Body, is brilliant, but this time you jump to Jim, don't look at it when
this is with a slinky creepy guy who runs two kitchens and he was going to do that. Unfortunately, he met the same fate as Jim Carrey did in liar liar. Where was this cursed was any cursed or did he flip a coin? How did you get that currencies are made aware, sandwiches, that's what happened. That's what happens when your father isn't there? If you make a wish at a birthday candle, it comes true, but in reality it doesn't
no, not one. That's the, but that's today is that if Jim
got sweet angel on his side. Then peoples Temple would absorb the divine Run International Peace mission Movement and serve rolls off the tongue.
International peace, that's the
problem and that's why we know peoples Temple, but we don't know the intern
national peace, misinformation, mission movement, you can't even say you,
over everything, we have bran, muffins or bran muffins. Do you want a bran muffin or we have a brand new, but it's magical thinking that also works with advertising. It's about a thing that just punches absolutely, but that opportunity would not come for a few years yet follow divines
I had a little life yet and Jim was nowhere near ready to take something like that on. He hadn't proved himself, yet he was still building his team now. What's telling about the followers of Jim Jones. Is that a lot of the
the ended up being his most loyal, the ones who essentially served the flavor aid had joined up in those early in
Annapolis years. These are the people that saw Jim Jones at his best before the dark times, and I think, even up till the end, they were
still expecting that person who started soup kitchens in Indianapolis to come back. You know what it was I'll be in my estimation will get into later on. We offer obviously cover Guyana, but it with you talk about the the congregation of Peoples Temple. They were a fun group of lively, sweet people right. I think a lot of what kept these people in the fold was the crowd that Jim Jones had built like, and there is that that there is that they're, the it's it's it's weird how far you can go for a congregation like really belonging
a group of people. That's like one thing. That's kind of people like me as a Satanist, like you know, we don't see. Just don't hang out mean it's like it's going to storm Timeline, so desire for community, say this old russian loli. This is what you're describing yes, basically satanist soldier sit around a correct each other on their grammar and talk about how mad they are about statues.
Very, very, very difficult
see why you'd want to stay in yeah sure, but it's also,
being in a bad relationship where you think I knew him when he was good exactly. I know I mean occult, can we've talked about this and we talked about this in pretty much. Every cult we've talked about being in a cult is like
an abusive relationship and these people,
you know when you talk about like the he talked about the good times the good times, people there's this fantastic resource on the internet. It's like the Jonestown project where it's run by and
story and that's put together all these different
stories from all these different former members of Peoples Temple
read a lot of these testimonials and a lot of them will make these lists of like these were the good times. Yeah. It's like being a New York Giants, fan think about the super bowls you're sitting in the patriots. Meanwhile, you just looks there in the three win season yeah
Eli Manning just happened to be sort of like a uh. He was sort of like a Rudy. He
for photos. Gump of football work. Just good things just happen to him boom Henrys.
Does he hot football
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, I'm getting better. It was good, it's accurate. Is it accurate, just 'cause the guy is Gumpy, let's be honest, and every time he want anything, he was asked backwards, stupid. It's just important public. Well, some people's lucky and Peyton just grinding his teeth every night he just wakes up screaming, just being like, I was the best quarterback, whoever lived or perhaps the most fervent of all of those early followers was Patty Cartmel. She was a woman looking for an apocalypse and found it in
Jim Jones, a woman. Look at! That's a hell of a tinder profile, looking for an apocalypse yeah and then it to you. But you spell it a pack, a lips.
What she would do if she would drag her family to revivals all around her area. Looking for that, guy that spiritual leader that was finally going to tell her what to do and was going to tell her how she could be
and then when she saw Jim Jones. That was it all right. He was our guy such a strange thing to to actively seek out, but I guess yeah and that this this woman she would be Jones, is most devout follower. She would be
questioning and obviously smitten with Jim Jones, even after Jim Jones,
later put her in charge of what he called his fox schedule. Oh my
what she said that she said that she was too heavy for him to sleep with. She was a very large woman. She said that he said that she was too heavy for him to sleep with, and he said so.
Instead of having sex with you, I'm going to give you even a better thing, you're
in charge of all the women. I fuc
Well, how was that a better site? She loved it?
I gotta say this guy had something going for me. The same is guy Fieri watch triple d state with many interviews, female cooks. They look at him, they look through his soul. Male love guide the opposite. I feel like they're fine with the lower. Like you know, what surprised me was guys big project with him dealing with the new food network. Stars he's very he's very in control of what what do you do
and he gives a very solid constructive notes that those people- yes, he does easily
barbecue well, Jim was building his team. He also
brought his mother along. She showed
And immediately got a job as a prison guard at the local women's prison wow over the years. She would talk to anyone, who'd, listen,
about the early days of Jimbo Jimbo,
It's a perfect name now that in hindsight and she would die in Jonestown prior to the mass murder, still believing
Her drug addled paranoia fueled son had grown into a great man. Another good thing about the road, the Jonestown by Jeff Guinn, was the way the kind of explained
how churches work like the more learning about how congregations are made, where it's like again, so we went from revivals a rope
mikes to him having his own show at his own church. But then what you want to do is get that church affiliated to a bigger network of church like joining a union or essentially you want to be able to join an other network of churches. That then, you can say are also connected to your church, so that you get more legitimacy and then you can become an official passer. So that's what he did. He was on his way to being an official pastor, but he had to get a bachelors degree and the other thing is they said: it's like your whole personal life is garbage. You need to figure out. You need a better image because you're trying to join
a higher network and so he's like fuck. I gotta get my mom back into play, so we had talked to his mom's for years and then she showed up she's, like oh you're, a celebrity,
let me show up, she was like she was like a fanning. She was like a Dakota fanning's mom is trying to
you are, a crock did with Mcdonald's I'm serious. He franchising that doesn't come until later, but yeah I mean that's eventually, but he tries to do you mean one of the best businessmen to ever exist. Ray Kroc were in the real estate business. Not the burger business. Would that that whole freaking stupid movie blue. I love that movie. I love him so much I rooted for him such a free movie, and he put the real Mcdonald's brothers out of business. He was the only smart person in that old people. They just figured out how to put ketchup on five burgers at once, and then he just destroyed their lives for no reason he did what
just making a million dollars a fucking shoot for what do you think Oprah has done? Who will soon be present by the way? Hopra is what I'm calling her 'cause she's. The only hope we don't know she did great
we'll talk about it later, who are marching tour even further towards dystopia.
To Priya. That's what I call it whenever he wants to create a blog is Oprah's involved,
as far as joining up with the bigger church went eventually, he did get there. He joined up. I think they were called the first disciples of Christ. Eventually he did join up with him, but even more than
I just legitimizing him in the eyes of his congregants at also got him that ever elusive tax exempt status, BOM Bom, that's the crazy thing Henry you mentioned getting a bachelor degree. How does that like? Do you think the God,
you are going to be the spokesperson for him is like you have to get your education
I think that he cares about the College University University says he's not going to take an aa, because anybody can get and a half the people you see at a seven hundred and eleven happen ea. I guess
and building up his image, Jim and Marceline also started building there
own family, even though he in Marceline had already failed at taking care of a child back in nineteen fifty two Jim Jones,
but unsuccessfully tried to adopt Marceline's eleven year old, Cozen, Ronnie Ronnie had come from a broken home, but it always
to return one day. But Jim decided Ronnie now belong to him and then Jim could raise
better than anyone else could so gems
gas light in the kid tell him that his mother didn't love him anymore. He could not.
Return home, they didn't want in there. So you need to stay with me, but the kid didn't buy he.
Smart enough to see through Jim Jones is bullshit, but Jim. I just want to say number one. I love what you doing. Love the house, love love being here, love the bed, love the food huh
but I'm not a free agent. I don't know that kids aren't just like waiting to be like adopted. They can't just be like randomly ice adopted like I need to like
Actually, I've gotta got go back. The kid rejected him.
And when Ronnie finally decided to leave Jim, took it as an ultimate betrayal, as he would anytime anyone
Try to leave him over the years. He always took it personally and he always got real fuck,
mean about it, I mean later on in later years, in Johnstown I mean he put guns up to people set right so that home state childless for another six years and tell the Joneses adopted their first child ten year old, Agnes all right now,
Agnes is an interesting character in this story, not because of what she did because of how
absent, she seems to be for most of it because Agnes just never really fit into
old Jones scene for some reason and also
The story- all you get from Agnes is pretty much oh and also Agnes was there and she was at Jonestown
during the the the that's one of the saddest things about is that, even though she was never truly a part of it, her and her
Lou were the only two of the five Jones children to die at Jonestown. She was a real
and Brady. Unfortunately,
I believe, also Jan Brady committed suicide. I think there's a later on Brady Bunch Service, where Jane pretty committed suicide, which is pretty dark
yeah. Well, it's tough to combine families with all the kids that survive were gyms biologic
Son Stephen, which is spelled Stefan now, but still but well, because they
add PHP Han yeah well, the reason why his name was Steven was because they had adopted another little girl named Stephanie, but she died in a car crash also for a while. He was really really nerdy, but he invented this crazy machine where he could go down into it and he popped out. He was all cool
I so at first was still with Steven, but as soon as it came out of the machine, he was Stephen
family matter, don't they Laura the other kids that survived worth the adopted sons, TIM and Jim Junior? Now Jim Junior was the first black child adopted by a white cop.
In Indiana that white couple yeah Jim Jones and Marceline First white couple who adopted by kid in Indiana in India, isn't
history and along with
the Korean Lou and the native American Agnes. Jim Junior was the last addition to what the Joneses called their rainbow.
Honestly United Nations either. Technically it wasn't really a rainbow family. It was mostly a lot of beiges and browns. It looked more like a Kardashian's closet, because beiges and browns are really on trend right now.
True rainbow family is on Sesame Street.
Because you got her pools in your blues and yellows and gorgeous, but it is another
although- and I have to give credit he's, walking the walk he
added a little walking the walk. Yeah I mean yeah he's doing it on the surface he's making political choices a part of this got to be because they had an open conversation. Him in Marceline said they wanted the picture of their favourite like when they take a picture for to look good, which is yeah again when you're making these hello choices on some level. It's gray,
because it would. You know, just literally on the a a very shallowly you're doing really wonderful things. You are you in you are and then actively it becomes really nice and good and forward thinking but
in the end he's only doing it for the picture, but he's still doing it and uh
so that picture matters. Look what happened with MIKE Huckabee,
family with photo photograph together and derailed everything that was their own fault for wearing a matching shirts, but they also need to wear fitted. Petter paint cover the guns. You don't want to show your focus group. I don't need my booking a leader of the free world to have a twenty five fupa. This is 1920s anymore, so by nineteen
one Jim Jones had formed a pretty good crew, he have loyal followers, he was a family man and he was gaining political influence and, with those followers help, Jim Jones got to work on the system itself, grassroots style and through careful manipulation of business owners, administrators and low.
Government officials, Jim Jones, almost singlehandedly began the peaceful desegregation of restaurants, hospitals and the workforce in Indianapolis. That is true, incredible, very demonstrable.
Yeah. It was interesting how we did it too he'd go to the businesses, he'd say
you're going to desegregate your restaurants and we're going to be would come in with black people like
ok we're going to sit at the table that you always give me, because you know me from around the community and
They will know, we can't sit them and he's just like. No, you have to sit them down and be like well. You're. Embarrassing me, I'm pinnacle. This is I'm a part of the society when big, like people are watching me, get kicked out of the restaurant and then you go back in like listen, we're going to make an arrangement here, you're going to desegregate this and I'm
fill this hole. Restaurant say, okay and so he'd go away. He'd come back with half the congregation and just blow out the place like just fill it up.
And interested again and again yeah, and he do it at like three pm
you do it in off hours right. He do it in the times of these people were making money anyway, so he do in the off hours and he
pay for all the meals of the people that he brought along wow. So everybody everybody was win.
And then, after that, they would
flyers around in the black neighborhood saying like this business is friendly torch you, you can go to this business and you can go to this business and have
a meal that so crazy racism is these business owners are staring at empty restaurants, weather like at least that's. Why
go see it's like that's how dumb they were her blinded, they weren't. They don't fill it up. Man yeah, but also remember the Temple was not paying for them that the Temple was at paying for their meals. They were actually
so they had given every single thing that they own to the temperature, just a bizarre like middle manager for life. But that's the thing, though, that it wasn't like.
Jones was just doing all this out of the goodness of his heart. It was that in part, but none of this came without a price in exchange for all
he did for his congregation. Jim Jones demanded their unwavering loyalty in this wasn't just loyalty to him.
It was loyalty to socialism as well. Member was acting in a manner that was cell
fish or materialistic than they were to be reported directly to Jim, Joan
himself and by selfish materialistic. They mean like going to see a movie.
Buying a new shirt. I see so really kind of isolating them now very much so now. Back in those days, the punishment was pretty tame
pretty much just be stood up in front of everyone and yelled out a lot. That's a lot, though it sucks, but it is nothing compared to the rubber hoses. An boxing matches that came later, kinda fun Box sounds kinda possible way in the way it's a cell phone, but it's most of his congregation elderly yeah. How we kind of put them in a boxing ring think about this. You get a couple of eighty year old women. You tape, a couple of like cook like once said this
the stove gloves so much or Oven mitts a moment. You duck tape into her hands and they got a slap each other until the first one falls. First, bowl win
It's a shell. I would like to see the fact that you just set it and suggested it to the world. I believe it probably is your show right now on TLC, right after my six hundred pound life, it was it mostly elderly women. It was just a lap and grant it was a large part of it was elderly women, yes, but there were a ton
people in it that were just regular folks. Fighting elderly woman
yeah. It's kind of fun now surprised.
Hey Jim Jones, who was a legitimate leader of integration. Didn't
many enemies you think he would, but he really didn't. In fact, most people seem to enjoy them, but another thing Jones learned from Father to buy
the leader is nothing if he does not have enemies right and since nobody else is going to take the first shot at Jones, he had to take it himself staging what was to be the first of many.
Fake assassination attempts, while yeah man this first one was pretty simple from what it sounds like he just walked.
This front door fired a bullet in one of the pillars. On his front, porch ran back into the house yelling at someone to take a shot at him god I wish I could see the footage of that God, what a great liar
'cause, you always about that lied to us and obviously it's a bad lie, but it's kind of fun that he just did it. They probably-
I watched him walk out of the house. 'cause, it was filled with people, the houses
the nursing home,
How soon will just filled with kids, who just walked out of it shop pillar that ran inside,
it's like well, we get shot at their like. Do you have a gun on you. He put the gun in my hand. He must have been nightcrawler
always blaming the x men and when the cops showed up. It was very obvious to happen to them. What he done. They're
they're like yeah, you just shot it right lake, you know, but then, when Jim went,
Church that Sunday he had a new story to tell he had a new urgency to the cause
He had a new enemy of faceless enemy.
And he had proof that God was protecting him to fold. Not only the stranger try to shoot me, but also the cops didn't do anything about it. So you know you have two new enemies that you could go blink blink. He told his whole Akron Father got. I see I can. I can see why this is can
yeah, and not only did the cops not do anything for me, but they didn't do anything for me just like they never do anything for you, fam Bam, Clickity Clack, bring it back around callback, learn how to do improv. This is technically him doing. Herald work right, bring it back circle it around a gym at this time also got a new enemy overseas, but this
was more of an all, encompassing unstoppable monsters. Godzilla. What's going on Russia, Russia over the Russians involved now this is this- is the early 60s cold war is in full swing man and Joan?
like a lot of Americans, miss the Cold war, could all be new one. Don't worry castle it'll be fun right under your desk when the bomb comes that'll, work yeah, so have you guys had the conversation with your significant other? The planning conversation no plans,
in my house. Whatever shoot is, as anything looks, unstable
page, whatever is the the the rickety crate of,
problems that they put on the raft that they push from North Korea Tordella once it arrives to the beach then I'll, be upset, then I'll, be very scared. Well, TIM Jones, like a lot of Americans, got pretty uh.
To the possibility of nuclear war with the Ruskies, oh yeah, pretty soon word
peoples Temple was they had to get out it Indiana
we need to do it yesterday I heard it was called
the I agree,
with Jeff Guinn in the road to Jonestown. When he says Jones is fear of nuclear war was genuine yeah yeah yeah, he was.
Naturally paranoid person in this FED into that perfectly now. This wasn't like Charles Manson talking about health
skelter in the race WAR and all that, so we could convince a bunch of young girls to move out to the desert and Ryan.
Food and ride dune buggies with him all day, because that was his best possible law. It was, it was incredible idea and he sucked it up. He didn't do it right. It was already been great with this stuff, I mean this is what Infowars is based on
this is why Alex Jones sells a tactical bath which is evidently weapons grade back, but
so that you can use. I tell you whatever makes me look like him, I'm buying I'm about to get that protein powder. Well, it comes with Bullshitin like man,
Protein powder actually has semen, Killian chemicals great being recalled. The
He builds Infowars or the ultimate irony is it kills you
You could build this rocket talk if you have to have a child. Well, unlike
so lied about all this yet Jones had a very real fear here. He said that he had a prophetic vision which me- and you would probably just
nightmare. That Indianapolis would be destroyed in a nuclear blast on an undetermined date at either three hundred and nine am or three hundred and nine
yeah do, you know, was three: oh, nine, very good specifics, yet very good specifics without being specific at all yeah. Now, because of this,
John started scouting new locations for peoples temple. This is when he took his first trip to guide
and that's what I found out- it's actually pronounced Gaiana. Thank you, Dad God Diana
The reason why he went to Guyana was
This guy is going to be a socialist country. It was right down in South America, but the thing
is that it was still knew it was unstable, so Jones decided that the time wasn't quite right for that, but he kept it in his thoughts. Okay,
So Jim Jones is going ugh, Guyana, as far back as the nineteen sixty one scouting it out.
Now live your dreams and Jim Jones was coming up empty with ideas, but luckily he was an s
fire reader Esquire in one and sixty two. They published an article that
nine locations in the world that would most likely escaped destruction or fallout in the event of a nuclear war and even back in one thousand nine hundred and sixty two. They still had Gerard
lower on the cover of Esquire magazine? He is the only person allowed on the cover of that magazine, strange article, how to kill your followers Esquire.
Now, even though Eureka CA, which is on the list, was just a hop skip and a jump away, relatively speaking, a gym decided that he wanted to take his chances down in Brazil, and so he left the church in the care of
associate pastors and took his family
hello orders I'm day? I'd like gates, I'm not sure I ever told me listen to like Portuguese, the Portuguese up the sound, so phone and and the whole just like I
so we got nobody, but it's cool
something than just normal spanish
getting portuguese italian, spanish Portuguese, it's a totally different language. No purpose like German, is the weirdest sound in Russian. I know enough spanish till, like I did
I didn't recognize that I can hear someone understand it, but then, with the with Portuguese, it's like. I don't understand any of this. It's like
like a burger King Menu in Brazil, where you go down there like
These sandwiches look like, but none of them are spelled with this many usins easy at all. Yeah I was on a house hunters international. There was, it was Brazil, I'm intimidated. I can't go
everyone is so beautiful. Yeah you gotta Beach, bod do not belong in
We are not built for re. I could handle Brazil because I got a big, but, yes, you have a big, but he would be using forces size stomach for if you're very much stomachs flat. No, no it's getting there it's getting there. It would just be Kissel walking around 'cause technical. You have to wear a full white linen suit and a white for DORA and you be walking around
another elderly, seemingly foreign men, some some central european men that would tip
that to you and you tip their hat back. I mean, like secrets, safe.
I see, you're making a Nazi in Morgan. Might. If I get it, took me a
I figured out it's another. One of those will Jones figured that with as many poor peoples Brazil had, he could pull off the same trick he done in Indianapolis, but when
there. He found that the missionary business in Brazil. I had a bit of a glut yeah, it's like me, but like I'm certain to do, I did some car. You work on a trampoline at that all of a sudden. You, like, I think, I'm ready from top of the ceiling aerials like when you go down to Brazil. The poor community results are not. The same. Is Indianapolis right right. No, I was too much not much more economic in in
well, there's a lot more economic in need, but there's also so many fuckin' missionaries. It's like it's like trying to move to LA to be an actor, but
not knowing anybody in LAN, also not being able to speak English. That's right! That's why I say if you're an actor stay in Green Bay WI. Today there big fish, small pond. You could be the music man every year when they do the music man every single year, but yeah I mean there were
many people are Jones, couldn't get a foothold and he didn't even speak. Portuguese, oh well, yeah, there's
yeah. You know it's easy to speak Portuguese. You put use in season normal Spanish. I think that's a polish version of Portuguese, which isn't actually portuguese the only thing that Jones seem to
from his time in Brazil was a good yarn. What do you mean? A good story
he got what he did. He did very good story yeah and his story he to
many times over the years as proof of the kinds of sacrifices he was willing to make for the greater Good Jones said that, while he was in Brazil, a diplomat's wife approached him with an indecent proposal of sorts I'll, give you one million dollars to sleep with your dog,
what excuse me uh felt like fifty thousand.
Oh, no. The Jones said that at first he refused to acquiesce to her sexual demands, but eventually he agreed.
Yeah only under the condition that she donate five
thousand dollars to the local orphanage yep,
that's quite good. His dick was but again that's good
I've got this. Don't care where it came from. The group is not true, don't think. That's true intelligent answer just got five thousand dollars at a local orphanage in Brazil. No woman ever has to offer five thousand dollars to sleep with a pasty face
SAM, the Eagle looking mother, who shows up and you're going to like it like. You know she could have been with a brazilian man with a six.
Which time whose hips can swivel like he's an action figure yeah. That's a good
boy, like a he man, action figure and every time Jim Jones told this story. He never failed to make sure
Everyone knew that he delivered no less than pure physical ecstasy, a job well done for a job well paid. I believe it
I think so I sexy had sex had sex with like I'd like a jackhammer. Like you see those big weird russian pornstar guys like
and it's over in thirty seconds yeah. They they look like a rusev from WWE, but the point of this story was that sometimes you have to bend your
Rules for the greater good- and not only was it ok, but it was almost more impressive if you got your hands dirty because it
professing your morals. You were sacrificing yourself, which is a very convenient idea to plant. In the mind of your cult,
the idea the individual does not matter in
or in their society the individual isn't matter what one person does it matter and but I think this story basically come out of the fact that he went to Brazil and he came up cock up like he showed up to Brazil, and then he was like oh shit. I fuckedup two year
Ok, and he still is a wife here at this point right there in the whole family is in Brasilia yeah. They went from Belo Horizonte
eventually they went up to Rio for a little while, and they had no luck there either. So they get the been there for two years and back in in the people's Temple was falling apart, because it wasn't really the message that brought people there and kept people there. It was Jim John Press in without that charisma that was not the whole. The church together. Infighting split the
anything up associate pastors to congregants elsewhere in when Jones returned to Indianapolis peoples. Temple membership was a fraction of what it once had been and, furthermore desegregation
city, he continued along just fine without him and a lot of people
picking up where he left off in the community outreach area. In other words,
Jones came back to Indianapolis, he was out and this drove him nuts yeah. For me, I, like I honestly you almost understand because he did a lot of hard work and when you showed up in the in the city was getting desegregated. He was trying to get back on the human's right. The Human Rights Commission, which was he was doing for a while in the city we should back up to like we don't need you they just took all, is working jumped with it, so he was left with nothing, and this is to me we we've talked about this. What will
talk about this too. I really do think this was like a turning point for him, so he came back. I absolutely agree that this was the turning point. I mean this is because the one thing
we know about Jim Jones, the one thing that will definitely learn a lot more later on is that he could not accept failure and he could never admit that he was wrong and in fact you could possibly
that's why Jonestown ended the way it did, because he could not accept that he had failed, but also the feelings that came up. I think that a lot of times as people like you, probably understand this, where it's like '
You know when, when something happens- and you don't understand why you're you get, you have
certain reaction. It was like when, for some
and I involuntarily cried with the Song Baker Street-
that Song Baker Street Paper printed out that one I cry at that song all time and obviously there's something in there that I don't know why. I don't know
so Jim Jones showed up and the Temple had fallen apart. His rage spoke to him
because he showed up and realized. Oh fuck. I can't stand watching
Anybody else share in the leadership or in the credit of this association, but I did so much work with my fucking blood, sweat and tears. Also saying that I'm wrong also the fact that I'm not in control seeing somebody else at the pulpit
made him a fucking, crazy person. I understand yeah makes sense. He built it yeah. He absolutely
built in as far as admitting he was wrong. You know, like the only reason why he was able to come back from Brazil to the United States, was JFK got shot in the fucking head. He used that as an excuse. He said. Alright things are going real bad back in the United States. I need to get back. I need to be with my congregation, if you wouldn't have that excuse, he might have languished in Brazil until people
we'll just disintegrated, because he was not about to just come back with his tail between
legs and say: hey guys, I'm sorry! I failed because, in order for Jim Jones to work as Jim Jones, he had to be infallible and that's why the speech that he gave her the sermon he gave after the JFK assassination was entitled big. If true,
when it really broke, it really broke it all down. I think TED Cruz's father was named
Jim Jones. Here he failed a lot of different levels. He
to build a community in Brazil. He fell to keep his congregation together back home and he failed to keep his place as a civic.
So from that point on he controlled.
I and he'd always been a control freak, but now he
truly had a say in every decision, no matter how small and all
was fueled by his paranoia, because you know control
paranoia go hand in hand a lot of times. I know one of the reasons why I could be a control freak, sometimes 'cause, I'm very paranoid person. I guess
this. Coming from where I get learning a lot about you guys today, Henry Zebrowski weeps, like a child when it comes to 80s, romance ballot and Marcus, is a control freak. We are, though, but it's a part of what you do to imagine this. I think that's what's important about this story to what
your worst quality blown up to it to its edges. That's what a cult leader kind of in in in bodies were like Jim Jones Right for control. His psychopathic need for control is, what's gonna DE change
everything is going to change the world yeah yeah and as far as I get it, though yeah I totally get everyone failed, yeah, an
more than that, not only they failed. They actually taken members away from. They had actually betrayed him yet like they had, they had stolen people away from his congregation and he would never let that happen again in that anger, fueled him from then on. He before he died,
After had an afternoon radio show from four hundred and forty five to five w b c user,
fifteen minute radius. Fifteen minutes! Well, he paid for it. Oh yeah it was. It was like his podcast yeah right right, right, yeah yeah.
Yeah it was daily. No, it was, I think, yeah. I think it was daily yeah. Four hundred and forty five five pm I like the in and out in and out the message it take it out
mostly positive before he left for
oil and then, when he left, you know one of his associate pastors took it over kept the fires warm. But when Jim Jones came back, he went straight.
Rate for socialism, cut out the Bible altogether and started hinting that he just might be a profit. Most people did not buy that bullshit
Jones had a show taken away from him because he was starting to get a little aggressive. I already might be a profit, so really it was starting to become obvious to even Jones himself.
He'd, worn out his welcome in Indianapolis Jay's, and so he returned to the same Esquire article he'd ran to for answers before
his trusty Esquire, it's like it's just on the back of his toilet inside waiting, it's like the golden Esquire. What is going on to check that out? And he took another look at your
California, which I'm surprised they didn't take. A look at that before the winning Brazil you'd think they'd send someone out there, but they looked at Eureka CA in just a little south of that. Halfway between Eureka in San Francisco Jones found a little town called you Kaya in the scouting mission gave Intel that the location was perfect and so Jones started convincing his followers to take their first exodus. He gave them three reasons to go. Fear opportunity
or guilt if you weren't afraid of being killed in a nuclear blast and then you'd at least be living a better life in sunny California,
and if you were already living a good life in Indianapolis, then it was because of Jim Jones and you owed him. I do
Yeah, it all works. I've done the math checks out. This was also a complete lift from Father Divine again, because Father Divine had gotten to a lot of trouble in New York and move the entire congregation to Philly, and also it is the first allowance of toll
little control to Jim Jones as soon as you enter into a greyhound bus with seventy other forwarding elderly people,
you go across the country, you're already fucked,
this. Is it's their first compound? They are officially in the cult territory,
One thousand nine hundred and sixty five Jim Jones took about a hundred people. Little less moved him all to Redwood Valley,
right outside the. U K, if I was making this a movie, I'd, have him read that article and then turn the page in Esquire, and it would be an advertisement for
or big old sunglasses, yeah PETE by those in the back in business, starts playing. Well, that's true! 'cause. After meeting Father design, he started dressing better and he started wearing the sunglasses they were on their do not wearing glasses, he's going back and forth with the sunglasses like after Father divine, he started like kind of like these sunglasses for a little bit, but we're not in sunglass territory. Just yet we don't lose it about five years away from Soundcloud yeah yeah. Well, the thing was about you Kaya. Is there wasn't really much
Jim Jones actually do see with India
Seattle, population in need, and for that matter he had a population
ok, I had only about fifteen thousand people in most of those people were white and wanted nothing to do with peoples Temple who at this time were mostly black
It is very isolationist when they were, they moved out was in the middle of the redwood for only one out there and it's gorgeous it's really nice and it's like walking isolated. I need
These are also people. These are Pro Vietnam, more people. This is a very deep trump country in north
California, they just roll in with these buses, filled with black people and they're like wow,
yeah, and these are also bug. These are also like black people that are looking for equal shake the country in all these people, and you Kaya aware
looking like in thinking like oh well. Well, black people who complain they're just not grateful for what they got right now, and
so they were not welcome in you Kaya California, it's not all. It's not all got a few. He got a few more people to come along from Indianapolis by actually setting a date for nuclear destruction July hundred and sixty seven, but that only brought about fifty more people and to keep them there. He doubled down on nuclear destruction. He even told them that he had a special
gave up in the hills all ready to go when the inevitable happened, not unlike Char
Manson's hole in the ground, where his followers would go to wait out the race war. Alright, you know what we know that it was an underground city right, yeah, it's like it's like. Don't you worry, you get down there and there's there's a seven hundred and eleven down there. I haven't checked it out personally, but I heard the taquitos are fresh every other day. Roller to kitos caves have a big hold on the human mind,
there's something about people. It's
it's in our dna. It's been used forever. The idea will go hide in a cave and it sounds kind of fun because in my mind I imagine
looney tunes. I imagine cuddly bears
I imagine the herculoids. What are those cave is
No, it's not it's not dry! In a cave. No, it's wet! Yes bugs eating dung. I hate
but you know who didn't have a cave who Indianapolis, they didn't know caves in Indianapolis home, and you have to have a cave installed. Maybe there's a
in adult entertainment club called the Indianapolis case- do not go, but even though the
who came with Jones, had devotion the one thing they didn't have with money, not sure
everything they had and a lot of them sold their houses and gave all the money they made to people simply moved naturally, but that wasn't enough, so Jim Jones shifted his recruiting pool from black and poor to rich
white. After all, what a shift really one, eighty that one and knew how to do it because after all, man has a
how pay for now
absolutely so Jones started, recruiting those people who had become disillusioned with society, educated people who wanted something.
Fair and just these were people who didn't really have problems, but they recognize that others did and they wanted to help 'cause. None of these people I mean none of these people were idiots
The black members needed help and they got it and the white men
wanted to help and they gave it an and in the process they became a truly an
did community and for a time they were happy. Well, that's good, yeah again when they showed up. These were the fun times. Leave the beginning. They they kind of talk about this, like a people. Afterwards of members of the cult were saying like this is probably the happiest they were because it was this tryout like it was really hand to mouth like they didn't, have a lot to eat the did,
and they were not the most physically comfortable, but everyone was kind of having a good time like they sang in a bus together across the falcon country. You have to really like
sure people when we sit in a airplane going across the country.
You sit silently in the cheats like it is and hearing, and you can look at people in, but I think he's thinking about talking
understand. Damn I will freak out yeah, that's true yeah.
It was also very small at this time like this, is before the scene get big. Oh, I see it was cool. Well, the thing is about
members is that everyone who came in was carefully screened. They didn't just let anybody in the extreme vetting extreme vetting, but like what would happen is perspective. Members would be invited to a function and would be kind
only interrogated without these people even really know what was happening. This one guy said that he was
It's always they get taken to a second location where he would
meet up with one of these people at that with people simple, like a service or something like that and like hey we're going to go
to this sock, hop that were chaperoning. It's like a teenage dance party. So when you come along with us, you know just hang up like oh ok, cool, go and hang out and
don't hang out there and they talked to him a little bit further and then, if they pass the test
if they gave Jim Jones, the ok, then Jones would swoop in and scoop him up with a highly connected person.
Conversation. If people talk about would like Bill Clinton Like is Bill Clinton. They say he can talk to you in a room full of people and make you feel like you all are the only two people on the face
planet Jim Jones was exactly like that. Also remember this sh, it's being done by kindly seventy year old women
so there talking you like. Oh you gotta try, some of the cookies you've got to.
I've made them at home. Also. What are you?
going to do in the event of a nuclear apocalypse. You got the fucking stones to have the AK to fight the secret police in order filler cloud Ilike that they sort of transition to doctor evil. At some point. In the conversation of giving cookies to the nuclear apocalypse yeah I mean it was older, older people as well, but it was also like a lot of young people. These were all that college age people they were. These were people in their 20s and 30s, and this is like the mid 60s. So a lot of people they're doing that whole like back to the country type
Things like we're getting out of the cities. The cities
are corrupt, their full of racism and crime and there's some
just as there we got to get back to the country and we gotta get, but we got to start over essentially and that's what Jim Jones offered a lot of these young people and he had he had to do it. They did have to start over yeah in a two genders. He was very smart about who he let in people had to have the right attitude, but that's not to say they didn't let in people who
considered undesirable because they actually needed those people too. They took in drug addict,
trouble, teens criminals. They help them clean up their act and they turn their life around. Four hundred and Jim Jones use those types of people to his advantage because those people felt like
They owe Jim Jones their lives, because in a way they did. It is exactly what
Scientology does with Allen on an criminal
and in all those side groups? Is that how many people did Scientology get simply Becaus? They got them clean right
it's also exactly what jigsaw does yeah. You know because he's not about torture. It's about learning, learning, a lesson and Jim Jones key used.
Loyalty to safely turn these people into soldiers
actually given uniforms and arming them. Wow yeah, because I mean-
because these people were, you know they were at the drug.
Addicts. These are like the Horton Street. People are home yeah. Well I mean these are people who had a more violent past right, so he took them and he molded them into essentially weapons that he could use. Are you susceptible to to impose
so thinking. Here's a gun, yeah in these people. You know the people that he took off the streets,
that molded them into something else, small them to essentially weapons. Those are the
that were line in the pavilion Youngstown
these are right. I always forget this ends in like unbelievable pools of blood.
That's. Why it's an incredible story is because it goes
and it just shows anything built on a foundation of lives, is going to lead to bad
it it's just no matter what the lights are. No matter. What do you think it is that you're you're headed toward right? You live a life filled with love with the on that kind of shaky foundation. It's going to say
not just lies, but allowances as well. Right now,
b now they seem to be giving them a lot more they're, giving a lot more, and there is a lot more to give not as far as I
Norman people goes like it's not to say that Jim Jones was militant. He wasn't at least at that point, the closer
they got to like militancy at this point is that in Redwood Valley they
a bunch of teenagers in like a little like fun
sure thing and the teenagers job was when the bombs drop they had to get all the old people up to the cave. That's nice yeah! It's fun! It's the same thing with omission: Ricky, oh, how much fun that must have been if we're doing the drills, because at some point you're feeling it it's very! It's like the goonies. It sick, stranger things! You guys, kids go there with flashlights. They get there in charge of the old people. If they don't fall can fall online. You know they were given a secret to directive just being like
You can hit him with the flashlight like if they struggle. You concert problem a couple times and I shouldn't have guns, but they all had crossbows yeah. It's awesome buggies. You have to have activities. It's like you would
tripping as long as there's fun activities, pool noodles like one of those big bouncy flat things that you jump off the crane. You know like those big like, like like safety bag.
Did you jump off the high dive onto I've? Seen people have fun on those? Well, I think it's
for us to also talk about the good times. It's important
I to tell you that, like no one knows they're joining a cult,
No one knows like no one joins these things. Things like wow. This shit is awful
stick around well now you got me thinking, Chumbawamba, I'm thinking comes up and you gotta think about the good times you never walk into it. Thinking like this is awful. I'm going to stay, we always go into it, because people are happy people having a good time right.
You know and then eventually later on. That's when the hate comes. That's when the pair
it comes in Jim Jones- was great at injecting that into
followers in very subtle ways. It's like that, if we keep drinking
we're drinking until we're like sixty. Here I mean 'cause, then
it's sad, alcoholism and good, we're good time guys. We have good times. I mean we're we're on the we're on the cusp here all day, Sir kind of stared down forty pretty hard yeah, it's becoming a real issue for me. No I'll tell you that well as far as taking the paranoia down to the my
every once in awhile, Jim Jones would say that
everyone in the congregation had entered what he called an accident cycle. Well, yeah that meant that everyone had to be extra careful, because Jim Jones had a vision that one of them is going to get into a dead.
Accident in the only way they could avoid. It was in
believed in him, if someone could only market to the population, maybe like dummies like crashed,
dumb. You know just someone to inform us, but entertainers because of driving safety. The person to take the fall for one of those accent cycles was a man named. Why
Firestone. Oh that's what happens when you name yourself after a racial slur, and I are everyone. My name is cracker
good year. I love a good year. I like good you're. I just lost somebody named cracker good year. What it was when it
in trouble. Members seem like
he was always fucking up in one way or another was always being called up front.
For a good tongue lashing. I feel really sad about YD fire.
'cause? You reminds me of Phillip Seymour Hoffman from Boogie nights. Yeah he's always the bad luck, dude right always around, like he's just kinda
Cortana you suck shut up Thursday Darip going to give it all right, pee out there? Well one night after a particularly rough,
dressing down in front of the whole congregation whitey accidentally
Grove's entire family over a clip for Dakota Accidentaly. I honestly do believe that it was like it's not an actual suicide, but it was
like a thing like he just kind of willed. It yeah, I think it was with Yt Power, sounds like I'm fine with this like
can kinda let his driving hands get a little looser because they were there were actually they were in valley. So there were a time like these
Those are actually very dangerous. I don't know if he did it on purpose, but I think he was fine with it. Hey family ever
see just how easy it would be to just jerk the
daddy, daddy and I'm going to say for one, is the son of the group. None of us, like
we got after they went over a fucking, Cliff Jim Jones heard about it. He sped down to the scene club
down the ravine and found the car crashed in one a white
These kids did actually die in this accident, so I thought they all died. I assume they all had passed. No one died, but the rest survived. No, he had they got to live in in sadness
they literally? He lived in a straight up two like
slings and a leg cast just be like I'm just stuck, oh sure, shouldn't be the driver.
All the guys hope whatever is going on here. I should probably be right in the back. You guys going to get ice cream. No one takes me on trips to the city anymore, but sad life for more YT, but Jim Jones
everyone else survived besides that, besides just just that one kid Jim Johnson was because he he'll
and that gave Jones a double hit first, as
It came true and he got to heal people in the same swoop. What's the kid do that died? What do?
do to piss off Jim Jones. Why use maximum accident cycle?
all right, but it makes people, but that sort of thing makes people even more afraid, because
whitey, because that's the things that
your kids are in trouble as well. Your kids are also in danger, because why didn't believe, because why he wasn't good enough, but being a socialist he didn't die, but his kid did
You don't believe, then your kid could die as well. I don't think we need
keep rubbing it in about how much I don't believe, I'm I can't scratch my own dick and balls.
So if I could also, if someone could just please bring the soup to me, you know I got a drink a with the God, Damn strong
you guys are just I'm getting sick of this, but that hope
it almost backfired on Jim as well 'cause, one of his most devout followers, a woman,
name. Joy Sweeney died in a car.
Wreck on the way home from a late peoples, Temple meeting in gyms
this one, though, by saying that he'd in fact had a vision,
and he had seen it coming and he had worn joy, but he told her that before she drove off that she needed to stop and meditate for two minutes, but
brushed him off 'cause you? She did not listen. She was dead, so you'd better do
every stupid little God. Damn thing that I tell you to do, if you don't want to end up like Joyce I'll tell you
at anybody. You know nothing says rebel like uh,
sixty year old woman named Joyce yeah, no one's, nobody shirks the rules more than elderly joys and said, like your meditation, I'm gonna go catch some dick
and then she hopped in her motorcycle and broom broom doorway to Heaven Yep James Dean had nothing on her well those little bullshit things
that's how Jim Jones got even more control over right now.
'cause, like meditating, for like two minutes like say he told
yeah? If you want to just meditated for two minutes, she'd be alive right now, but and because she didn't
she's dead. So if I have something stupid that you don't understand that you think
be doing or that you think is at any are
thing to do you better, do it or you could die you're thinking about it, don't think about it, yeah yeah! So again he flipped in reversed it and he gained even more control, but actually, for the most part, all the supernatural stuff at this time in Redwood Valley,
taking a back seat since the recruitment was focused, almost slow solely on disaffected whites, socialism and equality took the lead. Ok, but that's not to say all that supernatural ship disappeared altogether, one of the things that seem to be
an almost universal opinion among former peoples. Temple members was that Jim Jones was anything you wanted him to be. Ok,
I mean even Jim Jones himself said that what if I wanted to be a grandma, that I feed him after midnight
it would be cute that would be cute to do, but it's not going to physically happen. Is there anything else you want to be? Oh, just a gremlin
you have to have more imagination. You have yeah, well your ball. Well, if
We wanted him Jones to be socialist leader. You got it if you want
supernatural daddy, you got don't this
Godaddy is the Danny Boy, Jim Jones you're, my daddy vomit, when they got to John Sound called him dad they did
the Father, they call him Father formally, they called him father but comfortably. They called him daddy. Well, if you listen, if you listen to the death tape, I mean a couple of people: 'cause they go up and they give these testimonies xy. They should die.
And they refer to Jim Jones. They casually refer to his dad, like I follow dad down here, but you know, and speaking of that
we wanted God himself from Jim Jones. You got that too
who said the same shared with Charles Manson yeah. You know
If you look up at me, you see God you looked at him, you see the devil. Look straight at me. You see yourself, they understand
they do later on his his his sermons?
we're going to get so rambly because there are thousands of people in the Congress.
And he's just saying, like a paragraph for each p person. That's there for a different reason:
and so people just don't remember their shit that didn't pertain to them. They just remember this stuff that they agreed with. So we've got a whole quilt work going on here. Different different needs for different people. They address
yeah huge kill, quit work and it doesn't matter what contradictions he. I have to say that I don't think anyone refer to Charles Manson daddy.
He does not exemplify father, no yeah, tornal figure, and you know it. No, I he probably
is that is you, but in this way, like Jim Jones is, is a politician all right and that he can contradict himself so many different times, yeah, like a liar or really all politicians are professional, liars, yeah, exactly like
considering contradict himself
as soon as the follow with the person that believes in him. The person that follows him as soon as
he talks to them as soon as he talks about their problems with they believe in you know, then they forget about everything else. They don't think about the contradict
that's all they think about. Is that he's got my back and I'll put this as Kissel? I don't put it to you on the
the politicians as liar scale, I'd,
was solid like you did good, I give you seven point: five yeah six thousand votes, yep, that's the old, the old. What irony, but that's the thing once you understand people or in the they need their own interest, addressed
and at the end of the day, we're all in it for our own best interest based human quality. That's when you play on south. You understand that you can
and there's another side to that, the other
I do that is that all of these people that were in that room, even though they may have been there for different reasons, they all had the same enemy. They all had one person they have all had won the cost to fight again. Well, it's actually a few different things, but you can book role that,
tar balls into one word: the system, because he railed against the CIA, the FBI, the government, racist bigots. All of this was
system right right, yeah, an all of that could
so, be balled up in one other word Satan is that Satan was,
the system, the system was Satan. So that's how we maligning him always attacking him. He never gets to tell his side of the fucking story and again, if he's
add to them? He can't be all that bad really. I mean I don't like it. I hear he's part of the system. He's not moon, I'ma, put up a step
well well, he could also bring
in both sides by saying Satan, is that if he said say
He brought in the Bible some right, but he could also bring in everyone else that wasn't religious, bring them and by saying, like you know like
It is Satan and then turn around to them. On the other side of his face and say, like you know, I'm talking about
just like a metaphor, right right and then you over the Bible, thumpers and say like the Satan of the Bible and then turn back like it was the
same thing he was just saying it in two different ways and everyone was buying. It he's the mayor from uh from Chris Nightmare before Christmas nightmare. Before could the mayor from nightmare before Christmas, great character,
So, even though all this was going on, peoples Temple struggle
stagnation for about three years, like small growth, was happening, but it was very slow going. It was
until another assassination happened. That Jones saw another opportunity, because this man knew how to take advantage of a situation so about two weeks,
After Martin Luther King Junior was assassinated, yeah,
Francisco's biggest black churches held a memorial service open to the public Jones caught wind and brought damn near his whole congregation in a caravan a
cars and vans. He knew. Is people really really well?
because he was he had such an intimate relationship with them and he knew that number one. They would love this and it was a part of the committee, and I actually think it was two fold is that he knew that it would help him to
around down the road, and it also was eating,
If you wanted to be in the centre of like it was a huge
he wanted to be in the pictures. At a massive like a memorial for Martin Luther king, I was thinking also maybe Bobby Kennedy.
Yes, it was m. Okay, Bobby Kennedy was a whole different thing for that in that place perfectly into what you're talking about with the system, because the the rumors of Hoover's FBI been involved, the CIA killing him,
right right away, yeah, so pro Israel and all they got to be in vindicated in the end, yeah end the people of peoples
word they were genuinely compassionate. They were genuinely moved and saddened by the death of Martin Luther King Junior. You know- and you know they
a lot heavier towards the white side, so when they showed up at the service they stood out, but
they were also genuine. They were compassionate and they were welcomed as
there's and sisters in God and after the service Jim Jones and his people started talking about all the good they were getting down to up and you kinda in
I did have one there to visit anytime. They want it so the San Francisco people figured why the hell not and when they got there if they were met with uh
two pronged attack of racial equality and actual religion, along with a few healing thrown in for good measure. It's strange to think about, like weaponized,
good will? Yes, yes, that's with me. That's that's how you bother to damn good way. To put it that's what it is is the you realize exactly, but that he got exactly what he wanted and then every single time he flip somebody. He got pleasure out of it yeah I
yeah. It's kind of what we're talking about here is like with allowances that we talked about with silver killers for him, it's the slow acquisition of humans,
yeah and you throw in a few healings as well as mostly mine
type of key length.
Get to YT, or he just got him why I think they put whitey in the back. I don't think my t got it's really starting to itch. If something could be a hanger, you cannot just pretend like I'm not here guys, but this
the mind readings it wasn't Jim Jones, that was eavesdropping on the crowd for information. It was Patty Cartmel, yeah she'd go
the crowd. She listen in an report back to Jim Jones with pertinent details. Now you might think all of those schitt might raise a few eyebrows in the new non religious types that peoples Temple had just recruited
but they were told again and they believed again. All this was just a means to an end we just had to get people in
yes we have to. We have to lie
Yes, we have to do these healings. Yes, we have to have a Bible centric service. This time,
every time these people come, but it's all for the cause.
It's again a minute and then once they get in, then we can get the real work done.
Constant reasoning was numbers yeah. I think we can make real change in less. We have the numbers that we need
in order to put butts in the seats which is trip which is honestly, we've seen it on our own of our own tiny levels of podcasts. Is that, like you don't get too until you have like the numbers you could show up to meeting be like well, this many people follow me like that
it's easier to give that person money that way. His was about power, though yeah, and can you imagine, if Dave's
Hell last special had an empty audience. It wouldn't have quite the same impact. So after the San Francisco
It was impressed with the message Jones repeated. Would it work so well in Indianapolis and brought back the notion of a church where you get something
now, he started doing the exact same thing where you know he would you know they would help them out, like government forms programs getting him John,
It's all kinds of shit like actually making their lives better because of all this peoples, Temple started to grow again at their lowest.
Point in one thousand nine hundred and sixty six. They had eighty six members but the end of the 60s. They had five hundred by one thousand nine hundred and seventy three. They had almost three thousand it's almost like they were.
To serve over a billion burgers. This guy is Ray Kroc in it all over town, again, smart businessman, great lover, New one Mcdonald's needed to get to the top, don't want that is the
This love story in movie history, but it's pretty great. It's called the founder of the founder. I just watched it like this week and it's great love stories. Disgusting break rock is disgusting. It's an affair, yeah the love stories. Awful work is a terrible person. Thank you. He was incredibly necessary. He, those guys, would have been nothing without him. They didn't know they were squandering. Everything is the only good thing about Ray Kroc Mcdonald's is it is slowly killing our president right then. I don't know if I can legally say that, but that is the long game for Ray Kroc Reagan. How come out Ray Kroc at this man is responsible for the way the world is he's. I know it's horrible, it's awful do. I know that's what I'm saying they make rocket. I'm talking to Henry here Ray Kroc is not a good man. Ray Kroc is the following week. Loves him mark he's very important. I agree. I see what he says as a he did. His job
he was around all these people that were pathetic. They didn't know how to make their business good. They went in there and they should be thankful for the money that they got, and this is what Jim Jones told his followers will be thankful for what you got. They were hard working, honest american, honest American, didn't have the guts to take it to the top, and sometimes you gotta have the chutzpah to,
I did not realize you were such an evil capitalist. I didn't think they did. So if
my shirt with those members when they were first starting to build up their membership. Those people were hard fought and once peoples Temple
excited you were right for them once they had chosen you, they would do everything they could to get you and keep you
one girl, she told the story of how she arrived at peoples Temple after escaping from an abusive home and she'd been take
buy a couple not. She said she was grateful, but she wasn't sure that should stick around just yet and she wrote written letters to her family, but she hadn't gotten any replies, so she started drifting towards Jim one night, key cornered her and told her personal MP
patient that she hadn't even told her host. So, as far as she was concerned, Jim Jones-
was a mind reader, and you know these people
you're very kind they taken RN, so she joined peoples Temple. It was only later that she found out that her host family had been stealing her mail reading it and passing along the information to Jim Jones.
Talk about the system. It's like the movie. The visit like once. You need to complete all of these super cute old people and the stealing your fucking mail
she was saying she was sitting in there and she thought that her family had left. Her basically would Jim Jones did is what he couldn't do with Ronnie, where you just cut her off and made sure that she couldn't get any word from her parents thinking. So she thought
she was just set adrift, but she was getting letters and sending it back and forth and they just they just kept. They kept him away from her. Oh that's very sad.
And Jim had a name for this for doing shit like this, he called it situational ethics. I honestly
Kissel. You said the same thing to me about four hundred and thirty in the morning in a hotel somewhere in the middle of this country, we were both nine hundred and nineteen bourbons in situ
it's not ethics, as you would like taking stuff from the hotel in putting it in this is actually fine because you're paying for the room and what's inside of it other than the bed and, of course, the television yeah, and this fall
They went along with it and they also
We're going along with other crazy shit that Jim Jones was starting to say in one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight he started
and in past lives, he'd been Buddha, Jesus Gandhi and somehow both linen and marks. Oh, what's 'cause he's working on the Scientology Timelines, where you could be two people at once: ok, yeah and these sermons, which peoples temple by the way they
didn't call their sermon, sermons or services or anything like that, they called the meeting. Ok, these meetings would go on forever and most of the time
the doors would be locked, so nobody could take any sort of bathroom breaks, and these were, of course, for people.
Already joined. They didn't do this ship for people that were just visiting these meetings.
On for so long. It would be so exhausting that one four,
remember said he saw a grown man pass out an Pist himself in the middle of a grown man. Man, man picks himself well and also remember so in order to keep people focused, he wouldn't have chairs. So you have the stand,
you have to sit on the ground because he wanted people completely enraptured, but what he would do is you would stand by in the pulpit number one would he had was a cow
watch that no one else could sit on that he would lay on.
During the meetings, and he was also allowed to go to the bathroom if you wanted to, but in the very beginning, in order to keep himself to keep up his image
we have a special apparatus rigged up behind the catheter type thing I think
it's just a bucket yeah. He had a bucket. It is just a post in a box, it's also reasonable piston, a bucket and read that was behind the pulpit. Okay yeah. I am yeah, but let's get a look, let's just here in exert
one of these redwood valley meetings. This is just the sort of shift that he would do to fill time, making the other day just a few services back last week. One of my brothers came to me to show you that there's nothing lost in this consciousness. My brother, John, in fact there you were concerned about something that was lossed. He was concerned that you lost it miles in my
but my spirit retrieves it for you today come and take it.
open house with you but yeah. I know that
It's like it's like rage against the machine with ragtime music and a
It's almost fun honestly. I wish I could do a lot more on this show of being like and that's when it pushes
a lot of an old in a river founded in river, like I want to go a lot more transitioning to gospel songs, and that was even talking. I mean I heard socialism in the social. I we started and if I did read it all than what he was doing as he was just talking about how one of its members had lost something and he found he found
He found it and he's like in here it is, and it was like a card or something like that and then the uh
in came up and that got it from him and he was like yeah. I've got a
a lot of things that I found. I just found that I just I just found it and I gave it to him. I got a whole lot of other things that I found, but I'll give it to you after the service. But until then I just you know just message:
last year with socialism. Oh no! No! No! No! No! You jump right in this, this small,
little miracles for them. Quotations miracle is just as big as anything else. Yeah. I tell you what, if that's a miracle Natalie does like five miracles a day for me: I've slowly slid into
Father's disease. My if I dad's disease, where it's been like, where are my keys,
here is. My bullship must find this. Don't tell Henry that Father's diseases L
also, don't don't tell him that he's not a father. Just because
The dog? I am a daddy for the babe. I am a daddy. She needs me,
so started? Given bizarre orders he'd order people to drink a glass
of warm water mixed with vinegar every morning. Did I mean? Was he just thinking like? Do you think you
this dumb. Yes, I am yeah hey this. If they do this yeah that- and I think I honestly think that a part of it- yes, it's that it was it sold billion, indoctrinating them. I think it's half on purpose, half not, but I think every single time you did it the with
yeah shift every single time. Somebody would do something completely against their will. He would love it even if it's something dumb- and this is just test to see-
how what they would do, how far they would go. It started off really small,
like that, like that, like warm water and vinegar, is like? Oh, that you did that great in nineteen sixty nine, he started taking it further, one guy who left the cult in one thousand nine hundred and seventy, so that he'd been present at one of the first poison tests at a small gathering
Jim Jones served lime, Kool aid out flavor age. He keep the good stuff for his private group yeah. He toasted
They all had a drink. Then Jim Jones told him it was poison just to see how everybody would react. Then he'd watch everyone see the okay, that person freaks out. That person takes call com,
that person doesn't believe me and thinks that they're just kidding and then he laughed and say like no, it was all just a test. I just wanted to see what you people would do now. Everyone go to bed
have fun. This is my friend Ashton Kutcher. He came all the way from LOS Angeles Ashton tell them
I was like on. The seventy show. Lord knows where you gotta, take him down to the river. Now is the seventh song about rivers that we will sing today said that 70s show is the closest my hometown ever had a tv show to having a tv show based off of it called point place and from Stevens Point wow. This Wisconsin
Let's and I'll mention Mimi Bobeck once again. Thank him. Stevens point WI from the drew Carey show Jim Jones would do these Kool aid.
And sometimes you do it with champagne, but he do it again and and again over the years preparing everyone for that final
moment? And it wasn't like that last moment, everyone thought, like oh
this just another test. No, they knew it was real right like they
around. They saw everyone dying in because there was a long line. If they say, then things got really serious by then they'd already fired weapons we'll get to that by them right or even militarized, and it it's get. A Jonestown was pretty intense
yeah they did. They knew what was it they knew. It was real that time, but by that time they got used to the idea right. They've been room, and I'm here he's grown he's been doing that for almost ten years by the time Guyana came while, but even though Jim Jones is doing all this wacky people were still joining in droves.
Well things were going pretty fantastically for peoples Temple things weren't going so great in the Jones household. It can't all be awesome. Ok, it's always like you.
Careers going great. Your house is not going good, I mean like there's always
and then we keep each day a personal life going when you're cold leader now outside
Marshall Applewhite, whose whole cult seemed to be built, so he could get the thought of fuckin' dudes out of his head cult. Leaders across the board tend to be obsessed with sex,
on some level or another. Well Applewhite. He I don't think he ever got it out of it.
There. They go! No! No! No! I don't yeah. He did. He did cut his
sucking penises off yeah yeah, he's on the forefront of his mind. He did cut his dick and balls off, so he wouldn't think about dudes anymore. So imagine being that angry at part of your body, I have been upset at it, but it needs to be there
I have to have it it's the only thing. I can trust well for some calls. Like children, a God sex was the whole point. Yeah there were gross yeah
good, kisser you're right. They were gross. Oh, how big it was. It definitely was super icky sticky over Henry I'm sorry, I don't have a callus. So, like you do I'll still say it was gross yeah everything's turned around sex too disgusting degree. In all, the members took part again to a disgusting degree for other cults. It was more about gratified
the man up top and the man up top alone in peoples. Temple was definitely more. This variety and we
Jim Jones had always been a horn.
Little devil, yeah
yeah. He is a naughty little papi. Isn't he hot daddy? You know what is true about the sexual impulse, for me is that it's very
so it's almost a cult leaders or even a more practical version of a serial killer, where it's it's very similar to little lake
Charles in keeping a woman in a castle like keeping her woman in a uh in a jail cell to do whatever or like how Jerry Brudos wanted to keep women in a cave. So we're going to do whatever they want for them, but they didn't have the work,
thank to create an organization where you can do just that.
It's actually like an eleven year olds, Boeing impulse of being able to just like take clothes off of toys and ship.
Kind of eleven year olds take Noah teenage mutant, ninja turtles? I put clothes on him
but you didn't so you didn't have wrestlers, yet you never had any girls around. So you know parties around. No, we had some barbies around and she never strip the clothes off the barbies and quill. We don't have that many barbies around. No, I guess there were still on
we had a. We did have a a missionary couple stay with us. They had a daughter the, but we would play teenage vintage.
Girls versus barbies. When you say missionary couple, I just imagined there always outside each other, no they're, not they were healthy and there's just riding the women were riding around like as a horse
very common idea of speak. Is things like that during the sermons? Jim Jones would casually just talk about how he'd bang Marceline up to five times in a single night such was the power of his virility okay, but in reality their sex life was almost nonexistent. Are you tell
A man is lying. Yeah shocking, see, Marceline through no
fault of her own had a bad back which, by the late 60s, had made sex impossible maps when Jim Jones took a preacher's daughter named Caroline lay,
and as his lover who is described in the road to Jonestown as having had a quote grill
pentecostal essence. Yes! Well I want to
I love he picked this lady because of her call
It is very similar to L Ron Hubbard with her it again same
The we reason why you picked Marceline it.
Necessarily like she was the hottest of the group or she was the most willing. She was the one with the scale,
that he needed to back him up. Yeah I mean she didn't just replace Marceline as a lover. She replaced him as what Patty
Well son. My call didn't go to guy all right, go to God, yeah, because I think it's because Jim knew that Marceline didn't have the stones for what he actually wanted to do because Marceline she was a good woman, but you know what
I'm just going to throw this out there. It also takes courage not to kill nine hundred people.
What I mean like it, she didn't have the evil stones, because they're good stones, their heels on, and what
clean add she had the good stones. Are you know, like her doctor? Aren't lying? Do it he's old time marks build up that you know like monthly chunk out, like you know like evil stones, like mostly she got like you know like good rocket, yeah, yeah that'll milestones, working hackles he's a doctor, which means he goes around. Grab a girls, butt impressing. You want a free, mammogram and all I seem like you're deflecting. This is how Italians speak dot. Dot text is very interesting. Well burst.
As far as like having the courage to stand
she's, not going to say the stones again. Now, I'm going to say this sounds I'm gonna say the courage to say the courage, because I'm about to turn into something serious here, I'm sorry, I'm sorry serious point to make here. It's alright. You fuckers ready, alright, alright, so yeah I mean personally, and she had the
when the flavor it was being passed out, she had the courage to stand.
And try to stop it. You know she had to actually be restrained.
When they were given it to the kids, and we have evidence of it. You know it's in the tape right. So
let's listen right now to Jim Jones, trying to calm her down
mother, mother, mother, mother, mother. Please
So please please, please don't don't do this, don't do this
on your life with your job, but don't do the God. You hear those baby screamin at that again. I you have to remember
I always you know. As we talk about the episode we forget, or I mean at least it's important to remember- that how horrible it was there
that's how Marceline reacted, but Carolyn Leighton. She helped stir the vat good. Lord this affair. It started with Marceline's full knowledge, as well as with the knowledge of their whole family, Jim Jones Action
sat down their kids and told him that he and mommy weren't having
sexual relations anymore. So he had to take Caroline who you should all think of as a special friend to fill
his needs just what she is father's most special friends, because let me teach this
Imagine semen as a bunch of prisoners in inside of a horrible wrinkles prison. That Caroline is like this tip she's, freeing them from jail
all over her beautiful vacation spot that is known as her press, and that is a thing called a pearl necklace? Kids, this not!
jewelery jewelry just cut to them. Just
horrified faces for kids. Now, as I said last episode, I think of Marceline as the first follower of Jim Jones and I think Marceline a lot of the time became a test case for Jim to see what he could get away with. Also it's a test case for Jim Jones, because so he took we talk a lot about Caroline later.
But she had a husband name, Larry Layton, who, if he was a bird, would be a cockatiel. He who was the head, his wife taken from him and then what he did was just be like. Ok, what I'm going to do
so is, I know, you're upset we're doing this for the Temple. You seem, you seem really upset
I'm going to give you a hotter wife, so he chose another lady from the congregation that was hot.
That he said was hotter. He gave him derby, like that's your new wife and then like
months later, he's like I'm going to be taking that hot wife
back because now it's mine,
all right? Well, do they seem to be enjoying
whatever it is. You do horrible stuff happening far as Caroline.
Really like his followers at large, didn't know about the whole situation, but Jim Jones figure that if you could convince his wife that he needed to get laid to keep his special powers going, and he could convince
followers of anything yeah. Can you imagine that you imagine sitting
your girlfriend down and being like. This is for the good of the podcast,
I have my balls drained by many many people, many different people like we did it's just even a horse. I I get just my it's my it's my bird and actually it's. I think
oh, I wish I didn't, have it right. He flipped it huh yeah, alright, as far as how he
Carolyn late into the situation. Jim sent, Patty Cartmel to convince, are Patty,
Caroline that Marceline was mentally and physically unfit and that gym in order to keep on being Jim needed to have a physical release and Caroline had been chosen to give that to him, and it's really sad because honestly, Padhi Clayton straight up said
I'll. Do it right, 'cause? She they were had. This meeting was a meeting because he did everything with his committee, so they had the committee and he would mean he would talk about how I need Afaq more. I can't do this and Patty was like all do it
and he's, like, God has a different plan for you '
yeah, more padding up or Patty man yeah, because he was like yeah God
a different plan for you, you, my child, shall be in charge of my folks schedule. That's right and she was never put on their self.
Put yourself in the game. She should just write her name in there. It's what everyone who goes
so the production side, he was also an entertainer who just happens to be on screen a lot more, but Caroline. She was told that she had been chosen to give Jim the release. Killing was the first to be told that, but she was by no means the last
Jim would tell women that by having sex with him, they were supporting him supporting themselves supporting the cause and
sting their self esteem, all at the same time. Okay. Why do I feel that this is a Bobby Flay move?
Bobby Flay, I found out it's a little information on Bobby Flay, good barbecue or no
great chef, really that's why he often does lose on beat Bobby Flay, interesting, he's gay,
he's, good oils, the chili oil so really bad when he was selling a really good, not famous for his cooking and Jim Jones, like he wasn't just sleeping with women
This is a Jonestown survivor, TIM Carter's, recollection of a Jim Jones proposition. I've been in the temple for just a few months. I was sent back stage in LOS Angelus too, to get something for somebody. I remember what Ann Jones happened to be coming
his room and he said hi TIM, how you doing how's it going. How do you like everything so far and oh, I, like it a lot and
you know it's really cool, I don't remember exactly and he reached up and kind of padded the back of my neck and he said I'll fuck you in the ass. If you want, but I just kind of standard uh. No, you know no, and he said well, you know
If you ever want that. That's that's! Ok! You know. Just let me know and we'll do that that it sounds like the story of every staffer who works for
Louie Gohmert, which is a deep cut politically horrible horrible politician. Other texts, honestly, it just sounds like Jim Jones is out- is about to be in that wonderful, film, american beauty really good actor. That takes a really good actor to pull it off kind of like a Kevin, Spacey, yeah, really really good wide angle. American beauty was a great movie, it was, it was fine. I mean a little bit heavy on the paper bag floating nonsense, but it's the most beautiful thing. I've ever seen for the price. Still do that joke to dismay of my family every single time. I see a plastic bag going on this ship. You got to know Jones didn't have sex with his male followers as much as he did the female, but he did
enough were older, followers gave advice to newcomers.
The road to Jonestown quoted one follower is saying to a younger one. If you ask Father-
fuck you in the ass take a douche
She had word from an old grand father to a young man is called
discussing advice, I write a column every week for the newspaper of the congregation that saw either an elder in Jim Jones is church or a grip who worked on the Andy Dick Show talking. Of course, about Andrina Becaus, Jim Jones would get really mad if you got shit on his deck, and that is true yeah
But I mean, don't you got it on his difference, because it is so you got his Dick
you're working on cars. You going to get Gracie
why are you so mad at me? I told you going into this gym. It's been a rough weekend anyway. Do you think that all this
this lately Jones having a progressive view on homosexuality, sure, but true to form, it was anything but really. This is another clip from that. Pbs documentary Jim said that all of us were homosexuals. Everyone, except he was the only heterosexual on the planet and that um, the women were all lesbians in the guys were all gay, and so anyone that showed any interest in sex was just come
and saving. He sounds like a like a south park character. He said the most juvenile thing I've ever heard in my entire life. I will say this gay guys, don't say that I mean
in the most neutral guy of all time that a guy is straight, and you can tell he's straight because he says I'm the only straight one
You could say that everybody else is gay and they're just forcing him.
Really. What it is is that he has all these pro followers, because it's the butt hole run:
it's like they walk around with their butt holes, completely open in a plank position, just shuffling back and forth, and their elbows and knees just did begging for it. They called the
pause walk! Oh my. He reminds me of the that should head kid from a world
latest dad. Yes, yes, everyone gave. What is wrong with him. I don't listen to heavy metal. Music is gay, so in the late 60s
Is Jim Jones wasn't much different than hundreds of thousands of spiritual leaders and politicians who have come before yeah, I'm actually surprised by this anti gay thing. I do not think that that would be with the unity with all this stuff is very progressive. Certain things because he's gay because he's at least by his very trying to fight it,
Thank you very much less the worldwide. It was kind of weird because one of his followers like who is a game where to live in an open gay relationship. Jim Jones was like that, and I you can't do that, but what you can do
just go down to San Francisco: go to bar and get fucked every once in awhile. It's fine. If you want to unfuck yeah, it's fine, but we can't have it. We can't have it here in the community. Wait so you'll fuck me, but I can't have a husband husband. So I think at this point like Jim Jones, is like a mashup of like Billy, Graham Bill Clinton with little tiny sprinkling of Charles Manson, alright, like just a little bit but around one thousand nine hundred and seventy the secret ingredient that turned Jim Jones from just a personally shady person
into a full blown monster, came onto the scene. What happened, amphetamines, yeah, that'll, do it and the world wasn't better after amphetamines came out of the Seattle, do it and that's? Where will pick up next episode? Oh really, yeah man! That's exactly what I want Jim Jones to have exactly what Jim shows they have just more nrg. That's why I've always said. Will you have to be you have to see it makes you very productive? That's one thing about first! Well, I was reading a thing about meth they're talking about Crystal Meth is like one thing about the reason why it's such a tricky drugs that when you first start
doing it. You feel incredible, and you just start doing like chores around the house and you're, just like
man. I got so much shit done and I don't need to sleep and eventually your feet. Your teeth start falling out and you're having sex
Joan style, underneath the highway, see bag and saying I'm sorry,
If you got it on your mind on your day, you know because you're looking for money, then you write a beautiful song under the bridge about your addiction and your Anthony Kiedis and the red hot chili, peppers, you're, rich or famous. I don't think that's how it works. I have no idea, I don't think so. No, please do not know math.
Clean. Does your house have to be that's what I always say
Alright, everyone! Well that's fascinating stuff part two. This will be. We gotta
for more coming up here. Are we getting at least a couple? More? Maybe more God fascinating, because yeah? I do I love this. I mean obviously, of course, a lot a lot. It's probably going to end up being five parts, all right, because if we did five on Jack, the ripper yeah we gotta do five on because each of the
episodes like it's. You know like all right
huge script and we usually don't even get to the end of it, because we're almost already at two hours here, it's amazing and we're not even on to the sunglasses yet yeah. We have the sunglasses, he amphetamines in sunglasses. It's all coming together. Now that start to make sense all making sense trying to make sense to get it. Now, but I would I like to put out for this episode, though, and honestly in Jim Jones in General, I up to this point. It just shows the power of hard work,
and for me my Horoscope for Taurus, said his twenty teens in the year of our work, and I believe that they see your I'm gonna start sowing the seeds for my own cold, because the retirements not gonna last for up right and mark is going to go down. So this is this is my. This is my retirement plan and I'm gonna come out and say it so that,
if you are confused when it goes down. Ok, we're not going to kill ourselves or not
I promise. When you get to keep all of your genitalia, oh yeah, everybody Fuchs. Do we have
a part of this
you'll be officers in order to be special committee. You're, going to be part of a special committee will talk about this off we're going to be the the pc we're going to be. The planning committee taking years taken, fuckin' shut out of Jim Jones is paid book. I want to be the guy in the big Lebowski was just in the pool, but I want to know what is called you know. That's called recreational
and if you are kissing, congratulations when do the Admiral Byrd. What do I get to be
you have the recreational admiral, so it sounds like your car sounds like I'm just doing all the work again,
well! No, but do you know what you're good at Marcus
really just about what utilizing everyone head right. I've had this conversation in private many times you say, loves to
He loves to work, he's so good at it. If he doesn't have work to do, then he just goes crazy. So you just need to give him more work into work. Every time he said just put him to work. Well, that's good! I'm sure you can keep people up to date on you,
cold here on all the shows on the last podcast network? Let's what if we should plug and thank people
Thank you for the page, real one thing to we're going to talk about. I want to open broaches. There's been a lot of problems with. Are you
two pages and videos, and we have no clue what's happening, that the only deal bought. Apparently we we started talking to them and apparently they're trying to do a big sweep of of people posting copyright me
but we're gonna see ray here. We love fan videos. I don't give a if it's free advertising every single time. You do something cool in that with our name on it not like yeah, like we don't give a so we're, not sure actually working to fix. I did I mean, as I feel like we're, not changing what we really are changing. So you see anything that says it all that doesn't seem in character with these dudes we've known for seven
years on all theories of different shows. It's just not
do that it's you're, too lazy and drunk
get half of these things done like you all for creating the great content, we let the content. Of course we don't yeah this. Isn't this? Isn't us we're not '
it emerged that were taken steps to to make sure that that this type you should doesn't happen. This is all you to doing it on our behest, even though we didn't ask him to the same thing with the patron stuff. It's like I don't know, the world is just weird and everyone is coming up with ideas and they're. All
yeah they're all bad yeah. Every no upgrade is ever been good. No, no, absolutely
just trying to make stupid, podcasts yeah? That's all we care about is really all week. Is the only we've noticed earnable talent? No, this is all we know how to do so. Please I promise you. We love you all very much. We would not best with stuff like that yeah and speaking of Patreon. Thank you so much to everyone that has given patron dot com, slash last,
cast on the left. Yeah we're going to get to shout outs get well
we've been bad on shout outs. We got a big envelope of a full bore, going, get back to him soon,
but yeah. Thank you. So much go and listen to all the other shows on last podcast network. We got a ton of them over there to listen to new music, show Malcolm Peppers being found on mixcloud dot com. Slash mark
bark scale yeah, I'm so excited for you, honestly, I'm so excited for the show seems like a lot of fun. It's great psk Psk present literally, you can listen, live every Tuesday on Capice DOT, FM one hundred and three pm can we eat. We announced that we're going to bring that thing that back that we were doing for Adultswim dot com. Yes, I believe that it will be done. We're definitely going to be bringing the stream back. It's going to be coming back soon. I'm shooting pretty face right now, so once I'm off of pretty face will be able to do
season, four also well for pretty face, will be coming out sometime in October and
check me out on crashing on HBO at one thousand and thirty on Sundays, which is now happening there. It is very cool.
So do that and then follow us on all of the
he's suicide machines that technically we need to fucking get off of, but it's good. For now we need the numbers, for
Matt Henry loves you on Twitter at Henry loves you at Marcus Parks at Ben Kissel, at Instagram, with doctor Fantasti at Marcus Parks had Ben Kissel. The number one and follow us at last, though, for life pass on the left and all your fucking last podcast feeds
on the left there. It is, and thanks to all free for all your support in all of our endeavors as we branch out a little bit as well. So you guys are
and it's great having people come with us. You know I just wonder if it's very, very fun,
hail yourselves, everyone hail Satan again, hail me please, and a Magoo Stellations.
Transcript generated on 2019-11-15.