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Are you inconvenient pick up options get tied parts today, a target whoa whoa whoa we're gonna, be doggies they're out of the pan. We gotta get back in the pan mineral and we gotta get him over to the last point: gas network country, danbury june, eighteen, twenty twenty two at the ram and auditorium in nashville tennessee damage. I got all the shows that you love the last podcast network will be in. In our view, in our meat space, and we cannot wait to entertain you and have a great time, but for those of you that can't comment parson go to moment house down, calm, slash, l, p, o to yale and by your lives stream ticket. Yes, you too can watch us reform. Our jangling country, danbury from The nudity of your couch, absolutely phantom, ass. I hope you guys enjoy the showed. Thank you so much for your support. We are so excited to beat the oji grand old iberia, hale yourselves?

there's no way to escape tourism is the last time on the left hand started. Can you reconsider responsible for your actions? Give you more accurate. Thank you gave your morning. Do it right born into the gay danger lifestyle shrank, because that's why These guys are worthy of note. And tat they like it or you got that its nature and nurture, and there are no one knows you're talking about yet but and by gay danger. You don't mean that they are in danger because their gay you mean that they're just dangerous game in your ass. get away to get into this story. Welcome to the last by guess, I'm a leftover one, I am Ben hanging, the markets it out. You know that re sure will react.

sure you are aware we are near, but maybe we'd be a little bit more dangerous if we no way, no moral on fire when it that would really take down the internet didn't have a majority voting to bring over and got his eye one. Today's topic, the perhaps you ve, heard the names before, but to be honest, what's this all about leopold love, but I dont, like captain I didn't better than the bingo card catch rates as I do that all about the people to the beagle guard thing with without yemen because they understood the assignment I can do in this regard. We up old and nathan, leopold and rich low were to wealthy teenagers who kidnapped and killed a fourteen year old boy in chicago and nineteen. Twenty four infamously for the thrill

They allegedly derived both from the murder itself and from how they were supposed to feel if they ve gotten away with the airway ever thou, but they were good enough, no really not now after they were swiftly got for what they are. He was going to be the perfect crime, leopold and lobes. I became one of the earliest nationally covered trials of the century and eventually became one of america. Most enduring true crime stories. Everyone knows the perfect crime is running for local office. Guinea elected running for larger off, is getting elected in executing a bunch of innocent people. Perfect, perfect crime called bein. A governor of texas see people at the time, saw the leopold and lower case as a sign that society was crumbling under the weight of the jazzy tat. It was his honor did. Entire episode in this entire series is all about how jazz bad functionally bad variety. The I just love the weather

arthur, always vilified and new gazes thea, and it was a bit jazz. That sounds like a bunch of keys. like cartoon cows, partner way through a hallway, one of the lowest in the night was musicals mass murder. Maybe he's were shaking a little bit when you guys did that, and everybody knows you can't trust a big man or on anyone They told us then I know- and I want to share with very scared- who I'm very happy no longer has a badge put that in a context, please, the nineteen twenties were being seen by some as a time of new found permissiveness over education and over indulgence when it came to kids when we say over education, you now don't worry. Nineteen twenty or we didn't do that. We did make that mistake again,

story, we ve been looking trying to cover for a long time. This is one of those been on the back burner for a minute, but it's kind of I love these history episodes with these historical, true crime episodes, because you can really see How very little changes now in society as a whole, Time and again when people try pairing high profile, murder with out of control, youth leopold and low were just plain decades. They were anomalies like dealing cleave, olden, Eric Harris, clean, and harrison fact were in a way the elder millennial, incarnations of leopold and low, which is probably part of the reason why we reference them so much on the show where della cleave, ordinary terrorists or our touchstone for true crime, so was leopold and lower the true crime. Touchstone for the early twentieth century, the for the fur Half of the twentieth century really also will be selling our new product called touchdowns, and they We'Ll- be in the shape of all three of our testicle behind you know the new merged. Yes do, but the roll out but brats part of what

The leopold lobe case such an enduring tail for almost a century now is the sexual lamenting the case. Although murder they committed was not sexual in nature at all, ok, good, rather less pulled him low were sexually involved with one another, although it would be a stretch to call their relationship romantic gear. The true nature of their affair was far more bizarre than simple love and far more sociopath ec, maybe more honest and good, and allow a way they had an inner agreement. At least both cycle paths on the same page mean their last names. Gonna go together, nice, it's a little romantic sounding leopold, lobe you actually that it might be one of the things you stumbled upon, which I do think that there are things to being in the names nanda catch on ending, there's something, but it actually does work things like this and for people, because maybe one of the explanations of vote I did these two fairly, not of their very dear

I'm just right. How did they get to go if it was gorsky and smarter The same store really running a lot of alarm in the southern wisconsin. Having sex with we will use the parlance. Their time, the nineteen twenties leopold. relationship was more about the act and what they called cordon quote: browning, which is a fairly self explanatory term. As far as I am concerned, how so is browning. What did the between two gay man? It's out? We, like brown men, shooting in a bowl and mixing up together as a team lying said browning to themselves he for other races we know about all that, I'm just going to assume anal sex yeah, it's a table, it's it's civilized surrounding us, or at least it was more about. drowning for richard lobe, who seem to be the browner, and this situation yes and handed leopold

was the brownish equals the brownie use the brownie yeah for Nathan. Leopold who acts in that time he would not have been called the brownie. He would have been called in his community, a council or perhaps a muslim. others. All slang YAP as it is. Slang. Is I'm not making this shut up at all is a name. You want to learn drowning as anal set a code for anal sex, a council is, Four bottom muslim is one who likes going down on guys, specifically guys who are, according quote not gay yeah, there's a whole lot going on at the time fantastic. I love slang, absolutely no, but beneath leopold relationship had a degree of emotional lady to the detriment of both young men but outside of the sector,

Nature of their relationship went to finally appalled and more than anything else in the mind of the american public at the time and what made the murder they committed. Such a huge story was the fact that leopold, lobe and their victims were all wealthy chicago ends of high speed. This link. That's part of the reason why we are so fascinated with these cases causes Finally, in amerika, I think we have this false equivalent asian, that if you are rich, you will not get any of the quantities nurture any of the thing like you can possibly be guilty of these types of crimes, but any real. Good. Somebody like Eric Harrison, Dylan Clee, bold, the also came from fairly like having a stable hall. we're middle class? Well, taken care of concord, no worries I get seeming. Why do these guys become little fuckin monsters, none, but these guys,

were way way way beyond upper middle class mean though we uphold family was worth closer in today's cash. They were worth close to a hundred million dollars. The victim's family was worth close to a hundred million below family. They were worth almost HU, a hundred million dollars in today's money. I couldn't believe he's hanging out with those peasants. Gus using double their money. Lobe, therefore rich victim plus rich perpetrators, That's a good amount. Browning equals one of the most infamous true stories, and not only american, but world history. Ok induced someone out. There to which the slowly like it's it's fucked up. It's the way they look at the or two characterized within true crime of themselves. You have leopold, who's got, the fog ease the gross one, and then you go the other one is the handsome one and then the leader and follow words which weird how the ice is approached. Oh look at true crime couples, that'll happen again and again. Question was this around

and chicago. Was this around the world's fair is now six. This is like sixty years after the world's for not everything before two thousand in chicago took place at the world's did. Not actually organ is drug or two years ago I got it all wrong type. That's about sixty years later, fantastic, ass questions about its true all you have in your mind about the blues others yazzi dish beat yes, the world's fair. That's all I'm not bad, but before we get to upholding lobe. Let's acknowledge our source. Today, we ve got for the thrill of it leave old lobe and the murder that shocked jazz age chicago. Simon barents sea and contractor amid a kill. My fucking, family, this music. So I do have some good jazz. It can see myself crunch and some peanuts drinking beer, nath, new country, music, jazz, do yeah, I mean if you watch their countrymen

Documentary by can burns their wit marseilles does make a lotta comparisons between the two and, I think, he's correct. Yes, you down, as you can see here, it's incredible how the violence our restraint and in another way, wasn t by one of the most fascinating in theory, music, his eye was a fantastic documentary. removing leopold and richard low were to polar opposite personalities. One was pop there are good, looking and sociable, while the other was sour. Faced openly, narcissistic and generally on I want to be around in just about every way possible to type to do that exists about woke the unpleasant one was Nathan leopold and it is with him that we will begin our series.

Nathan leopold. Junior was a third generation american, whose grandfather had emigrated from germany to northern michigan and eighteen, forty six, where he started a shipping business, providing provisions to mining townsmen and it really was like they made up whole industries back. Then we still do day. It's weird, are you look at cause? I don't know anything about business like at all when you, anyway, she moved out it's a little four mark as an ideal early. You look like you do in the mining thing right now. It's like now, god to do that What are? These rocks the rock- although this really is a promoted leisure, to salute because we would like this will start man we're shovel and egoism eagles ding, ding, ding and its own would show that we, like you, might need a barrel for this Not a millionaire. I would think, didn't think the gimmicks nothing he dies of black long,

but here no knows his name. Just taking my role in the chauffeur one as this row, the world's fair up by the the twentieth century some fifty years later, the leopard- family were among the wealthiest and all of chicago, but Nathan, Lee pull junior was the disappointing third child of Nathan, leopold senior ninety four: ninety daddy I am the son, you valleys lactation, that's horrifying, whose neck in that pancake to have an era dynamic, face red additive again, and no, my ex latvia, you can hear the third one. This is I know child should ever get any money from their grandparents or parents. Dare I say everybody should

to work as you work for their grandparents in stock yard, absolute who, from an early age Nathan leopold, was the target of quote relentless unforgiving, bullies bartley. This was because he was shy and studious and partly it was because he was always tiny. He never got above five put three hundred ten pounds while, but mostly nathan caught shit because nathan's governess would escort him home from school day after day, leopold looks like the character from the old cartoon. recess? You don't argument there now little rat face. Do let me look this up recess, followed this up, look it up so that the audience can see it. You know I'm not thinking. He looks like the character ray. handle. We move from recent recess frightened and he's got this like either something about him where He is immediately on likeable

anyway he's a nobody likes like he shows up. People already had got a red on him being that he's a weird nerve, very mean right, he's very good. Cutting with his word he's one of those kids. When the kid who is already giving boy that's cool, seized him he's like yes, I think I'm gonna get boy anymore. I think I can actually boy back. Sometimes a bullies are correct. What's it like me, maybe not, though, because it seems that they created a murder, real sure yeah, but they became the follow along when we will get to that ugly. He kept in picked up by his nanny. What will the position a governess, its necessarily a nanny it's somewhere in between it doesn't really exist anymore, but back and victorian times a governess acted as some between a nanny and a tutor. It's kind of between a governess would instruct the children of the wealthy In both fundamentals you know the three hours and they also teach them drawing. They teach him blade ted teach my play the piano, they teach him how to debts

teach him in all the ways of deportment and comfort minarets. They teach him out of milk because I'll take One thing when I governess something of a big old, but by all booby, and I need to learn how to bail out. I got our own research and I really I want to say thank you so much to what kizil has brought to the governess research, the lord of teeth, episode boom boom boom boom. He has been talking about. He said he word shirts governesses. All my old, duke I don't want to get duke to go home and type in governess. To my my doc every website that has all in my favor documentaries and see what comes up victorian governess. It's all young son from home needs, milking hassan home from college needs. Milking, that's like will all it is

trying to buy a hamster, and you should have seen the site it brought me too will governesses job was different for ladys aunt was for men with Ladys a governess was there to give them the skills to attract a suitor and a crowd marriage market, like maybe one girls like lady mary knows how to play the piano, but lady edith doesn't know how to play the piano and lady Edith is not anywhere near as charming. Ass. Lady marries, a lady mary has the advantage and her governess therefore wins the game. you want. The husband before single have to do is learn how to speak, on elden ring for almost three hours. At a time when, oh, you must have a pliable pliable phase, but we're just gonna have to recommended that don't mean this is an insult to you. My sweet, we're gonna have to kill you and start again, one of you up or governess because of it.

The governess usually stayed with a girl well into her teenage years. No, not always, but you know that there is definitely a cut off point, but hopefully, in other girl gets pond away by sixteen. Seventeen o gotta worry about her. No more. The governess moves on to the next, we'll get linley, raise it up to marian age and then your hand to a new property owner her new husband or adapt, or you moreover, to a lady's made goes from governess to ladys, made I've been watching allotted doubt Abby, I know how this shit works out. I don't know it's sexist against women, but honestly, I would love this No, you up with a governor big man lying taught me about like lifting weights in lang new, unlike get in there My Joe rogan of fourteen years old, you mean like shaved head like little fuck and four feet wide like inappropriate all square,

tying up until you gave me to a fuckin mommy wife, as mass was in jail for right now. I know this is a very healthy form of love. Ugly. Thank you. You didn't opposite for a willing boy, you'd be awesome true, but with the boys bacon, which is what they do. with a boy boy, a governess usually out the door time. The kid turned eight years old. It was weird for governance to be their past, the age of eight, because at the age of eight that when the boy is sent to school, they ve been prepared for school, the sultan they had sent to a boy school, but when it came to Nathan his govern Was there large and in charge. Intel leopold went to college. He was purposely infantilism Nathan. I appalled and ain't, never really escaped him. He's always was quite like that's all. I view him as truly an ever present evil boy where we really could not escape disk. This kind of like he was. He was mommy. Do art yeah?

no, they say that, like some children are just naturally sociopath again may eventually learn emotion see if there's any nathan leopold was infantilism where he was just a sociopath, a child continued to be a sociopath child. Were he really couldn't figure? He couldn't forgot the difference between fantasy and reality, report himself in the real world. Ok, but his governesses name was myth filled a wants. She was nicknamed sweetie and by reports she was an attractive. Ok, venom but but Ben I'm about to bone. You up brow, I'm not! I'm an amazing wants her feet were, but again this is on ironically, one of the potter descriptions in true crime, more elastic, obviously, hold out. I'm game just but matilda wants a sweetie, wasn't it

active strong, willed german emigrant with a thick accent and a flirtatious manner at a lap first time all so flirtatious was. She in fact She allegedly had sex with nathan's older brother when he was seventeen and she had sex with Nathan himself when was just twelve, the little young I'm gonna stay there. I met a young and also new nosegay oh yeah. I would indeed its work. It is rumor but he was gay ogilvy, oh, that no! I did there, ok that she slept with a metal, he'll molested regime lesson With a view to rumour, but still the same time, she was real, close quarters for them and for Nathan's the brother, seventeen the time period, if you add a inflation since the nineteen twenties and he was with five years old. He really immediately work. You should meet with his name, but since Nathan's mother was

clean bedridden, his father to occupied with Family business and his brothers completely uninterested in Nathan's life, who Nathan's only constant was his over sex child molesting governor see all thoughts of a new common up There were two little frankfurter jude. You do or do not wrong to be too obvious about it, but I'm just so horny point that I would be a lot more fun and because you decided to sexual rights me, now I would have been german mistress all. I want to sleep with some of whom there are no. I save a first children oral drove me to it. I didn't I'm a catchword evasion eyeball. I did not know had been known at the harvard school for boys as an eccentric loner. But surprisingly, what fine, the endeared him to the other. Kids was his interest in ornithology, particularly his collection of stuffed birds

he killed himself laying is, if you really found himself in this bird club- and I know right and I'm cool area than about it like gear it during this, when you had the most stuffed birds and he was the best at finding the birds and killing the birds and insane. I look. Here's this bird, that you can look at up close accounting rang out my morocco seeming radical crucified. Him he's who have had terrified me. Light. I mean it's cool at least he's not just the shy nerdy kid. This point, at least in some kind of arts and crafts background me: ass, a freeze things that are free cool. I blanketed spines and I put some in the little cages leo and you know what buddy elite a personality now and you don't let man I don't see any much of it. Well, it is some difference, but there's not much of a difference between Nathan leopold. Stuff the collection and geoffrey downwards: roadkill shack leg. It's the same fuckin thing: it's the same concept, at least

I mean the method of storage is different. Jeffrey dollars, definitely smelled much worse, but name two different stream upper middle class sensibilities. It seem like a respectable hobby at the time period. This idea of I don't know about the killing them in stopping them by good does seem to be like that, and I thought ornithology was all about like watching them, thought? You was all about just like knowing a lot about popcorn colonels nine drying patent, trying to backwards Lee. How to put that back together and have been arrested by the OECD has doubling started or unlocking there's something without any more I even they did, or you know, I only he's at his truck make laws, but with no. No, I don't want to ask one that I'm not good allows blamelessly dying but great. Well, going back to order its core of the tent roosevelt style of information. Will you go out? You'll kill it, you stuff it

hi voice. He lit yet you know well. The thing about Nathan leopold is that he was at the very least book smart and by the age of fifteen he'd earned enough cod. It's to skip his senior year, so many that indeed attended the fuckin university of chicago app for fifteen years of age, all god, that's also a nightmarish way too young for college yup and that's where he met another kid. We would also be smart enough to skip ahead that kid was Nathan's Your partner and murder richard lobe. Now, while the leopold family was amongst the richest in shock ago the lobes were nearing the status of chicago royalty. Richards father was the vice president of sears roebuck, which was of america's first retail giants and the sears behind sears tower in Chicago, why did they like big things? It says It's has all gone now, there's a couple of years still out there, I looked it up

I mean it was a real bad idea for them to buy kmart in early two thousand, but let those huge brawls they got there remember that, but since richard lobes father effectively ran sears roebuck and since richard lobes mother didn't particularly care for child rearing, lobes upbringing was also intrusted to his gun this, although lobes governess negatively influenced richard in an entirely different way. It's almost like richards parents d. Here what they want to lisa, I love these alone, who, instead of molesting him richards governess, nay but enormous amounts of pressure on richard lobe to be the best you gotta be the best he always gotta study you gotta read as much as possible, but let's hell of a lot better than the other option. A second aspect, but in instilled in richard this week sense of superiority that I suppose he felt was necessary

to measure up to his governesses standards, it's odd, but it's there and its eminent sociopath, a mixed these kind of high standards, but she's like you're the best. Why aren't you being in the best? Why aren't you acting like the best you got to be the best in order to fucking, beat the rest of these rich assholes? I think leopold, gettin get molested by the by the nanny actually falls outside of the french. With these, this sounds like way more normal ridge, kid driving behaviour. Flare, if he's watching him sit around like she's doing the thing where I kind of sea region. Oh you take her perspective. You see this rich kid. hanging around you know it's gonna, take over one of the biggest department store like a massive family. Lineage shoe Huge old money, he's gonna take on this thing and your enemies. run, playin, jack's or listen to trample on what I did for fun, but certainly that will ignore man, usually read books. Now work now How did you you're going to sit in office emeralds, leaving me like our day, more suspenders,

Your whole life is gonna, be here because you behind a fire giant mahogany desk and rolling more suspenders, let's go ups that we could have got a better, that's business. One point: sears roebuck was one per cent of america's entire economy can now look at those statistics. But if you want but even more disturbing walmart is now two point. Four percent of mimetic his entire economy now those two districts, human more came out with that that commercial series those been like it's really tough for the small business owner. It is some see of walmart cry Nancy NBC because he can't compete with amazon and it was so sweet that here

like the tears of sweets. We pick fucking fat walmart tears yeah. He was lion because walmart income is twice that of amazon, so fuck anyway, department stores were fair amount. Yesterday I know I gotta that all, but I was curious, but regardless of the origin, richards own inflated sense of self worth soon collided with an interest, in true crime story, so large and hey, let's haggard mysteries you get into this. But one thing is why true now. Why now, why true cried I mean it is it's a question that I've been asking myself for the last five, the seventh attended to tinted the thirty one, thirty two forty body to fix, maybe two hundred years more hundred year, lawyers rely true crime. Now why you're gonna now yeah, but before long low, was identifying more with the more realities of the world then and assure locks. Lobe came to believe that criminals were quote not in the common.

Of humanity and just like any. other unimaginative killer, who wants to take a short cut to what he thinks his greatness low began to The way to set himself apart from the common run, was to become a master criminal. Now this is He was around the ages of fifteen or sixteen years old, we nationalism, but for the army before that thirteen fourteen cues rolling up here like these are childish fantasies. Obviously out like this, I hear that you are. If I get it, it does seem to be glamorous to a young person the attention that one gets from being a criminal, but his fantasy really involved up. It's really that him versus the world thing it's the idea that nobody can control me. I am disk incredible, crystal led, unique intelligence reckon manipulate people, but then there's also a fetish. Icing of thee

bring down of them of getting arrested. Could he saw him, unlike its his real fantasy, is the home to know my guards who will get into that ended his real fantasy or not his real fantasy, but the other side of it and you see there. Definitely two sides to richard lobes, fuckin, boner coin sounds like a bit of a persecution, complex prairie, much out known well suppose it superiority was only emboldened by both his popularity and the fact that he graduated from high school when he was just fort. In vienna earlier graduated from high school, but I can also tell an wink how about you, totally anyway. I guess what I can thing a favorite song these ever made a do. I know how to do jazz with my mouth. Are, not I've got it I don't even need a photograph, but according the low, when he went off to college at the university of chicago and is governess was let go something cordin quote broke loose

and not too long after richard lobe net nathan leopold, No on the surface, it would seem like these two teenagers wouldn't have anything in common richard low, but sociable. charming and funny, while nathan was disdainful, arrogant and pompous one fellow student v We wealthy sounding Arnold moment said that Nathan, it's our now more months actually, no no of arnold mama sounds very well. That is why my name is our now burma when he said that nathan would find a way to monopolize any conversation, no matter what was being talked about, because Nathan thought he was mentally superior to everyone. Therefore his opinion, were the only valuable ones, but should be heard it tell the keys. He believed that he's a man right should be over every one else.

One of those intermediate that hang out there in the above the comedy seller- oh yeah, you better be careful because you'll get rather you order chicken tenders, they will call you a child molesters, whereas they ran a mirage, but perhaps it was this confidence, mental abilities that attracted richard lobe to Nathan leopold. Additionally, it didn't hurt. The both boys had come to college at fourteen year. Well, ok, one was fourteen, low was low, was fourteen leo old was fifteen, but by the way, a slice it. This was long before they had the maturity to handle college right in this their similar to the Unabomber tech as indicate who went to harvard at fourteen. It doesn't seem to really help anybody know. Do it all to college is really team is really bad words yams, like just because your books, martin mean brains all their yet socially, so just under a pump the brakes enjoy high school.

Really you think that I probably should it was my high school philosophy teacher and have moved in new york when I was eighteen to like be an actor or whatever. But I honestly was nice, you could call it could have made my friends but frankly- and I grew up a little bit before going to just get murder slightly in the streets of new york city at eighteen years old, like wales, whereby all I don't like the train, yeah yeah, that's really! If you hadn't gonna college, you wouldn't be doing. This shall write. Another show wooden exist and you may have ended up back in orlando in that universally the other lose your others did. I would remind you that both the jolly jake what it might be like on Andrew cuomo staff make it possible to have a mac rebellion like sensibility, but instead of funny cells being destroyed by an income, alter experiment like tat, gesine ski was leopold. Lobe each found a sociopath of a like mine. I like it, you can. Can you also jazz music with your mouth?

I can use or crackling now feel like grow at a concept spirit, but one definite interest that the boy shared was that Nathan was gay and richard was at the very least bisexual. One could argue, though, that richard lobe wasn't, we much of anything when it came to sex and love, he later claimed to be indifferent to sex marking it down a sum: but he could easily get along without. Conversely, it also wasn't a big deal too do it with either a man or woman. So in Nathan, leopold press richard low for sex. Richard figured wireless use if it mattered so little one way or the other. That's how you feel about food markets, yeah there's a year. I also think it like prior to eighteen november. He's on board right. What do you want to finish I don't know no, what my thought what is at stake? I mean amongst the well you know, especially amongst the english

having a little bit of italians at the boys, school was seen as no big deal here. Sometimes you get it not play down kiss now. Would you best friends lot of freedom so, starting in nineteen twenty leopold? Lobes started fooling around on the regular and by spring Ten twenty one nathan leopold had fallen in a kind of love with richard lobe and was willing to You just about anything richard want it. Oh, I think Richard richard low bozo got really obsessed with the idea of doing anything that was anti society or anti. That was regular at the critical regular at the time. So, if you a little bit of ham. His drive, like leopold, was like hulu falling in love with richard wright like what is going on in so far as much as he could. Phone could fall in love like I do think it's mostly just because it another way to tell polite society to go. Fuck yourself be unlike, and I'm gay now are there.

well. I would argue with that, because, when the very first time that richard loeb was faced with that with faces, like hey, you got to stop being gay or else you're going to be ostracized. Keep talking phone, and molly I gotta get. He has no strong attachment to anything new true, but it is important to note that name leopold was by no means forced to do anything. Nor could it be said that leopold with spellbound by a stronger personality. Instead, both teenagers had rich and intricate fantasy lives that locked together perfectly to create a sociopath feedback loop there resulted in murder fit is on their personal behalf. I found my slit from us lot that's their love language. You know. We also wonder if they like a cat it it's weird cos their crime in many ways reminds me of a food do more than anything else full of fine do

diaper. We covered this. We cover this before its idea of, like I, too person colt abba like we did with the sisters, the ericsson sisters yet right right, like they near a really big key, is the fantasy life finding up. Yet he could re there's something about being able to say out loud to somebody else. I had these dark thoughts and the other person being like. Not only do I have dark thoughts, but I want the lord of dark thoughts like I wanna, be that want to make dark dark shit. I want to be a criminal, I wanna be professional criminal and you wanna sucker criminals, dick What like works out, we're like now we're going to hang out and they then their collective together ruminating about doing shit together like starting to escalate, like really trying to say fuck, you decide

de it we're. I feel it in a way that its almost ignore fantasy world becomes more real than their reality. Now you can blame it home and we do don't mean castle. Yes, you do as reach a perfect complimentary spice. Marcus has the dirt. Now his old ships, when, as soon as you can into the studio. I'm always exactly about six minutes late, just to show you I'm easygoing. Absolutely a roast, is dark ass, the night perfect, are fuelling the cryptic reed. and man ravings required for your podcasting? Do mine the red eyes? He's just trying to warn you of the bridge. Finally, from the cafe now brains of spring you'll jack coffee. Unless podcast on the left bring you off men's red eye blend, yes, delicious panama beans go to last podcast merged dot com to

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and she used to be a wolf, which is why we need her to be happy healthy and with the fresh food possible because, thanks to sunday, for dogs and blood transfusions. We to allow wendy to live to close to twenty five years. So right now you can take fifty percent off your first. or just visit sundays for dogs are calm, slash, wolf, fifty again, sundays, her dogs, dot com, slash woof. Fifty richard didn't immediately rocket words murder when he broke loose, as he put it richard lobes, climb towards the worst crime in existence. Child murder started in the pettiness of ways at the age of fifteen richard low devised a system for cheating at cards that required Nathan leopold as a partner What a good business affairs, bush or small wow. What this is not to make money, because both

leopold and low receive generous allowances. Instead, this was just for the thrill of successfully fooling their friends and, most importantly, doing it without getting caught. The lamp he a jack, asked that you're seeing it in front of him so smart. She, while some criminals, commit crime specifically for the attention. leopold. Lobe wanted no attention whatsoever because note He was for peasant oh really. Well, you like your own inner circle. Knowing Let me, then, at dinner circle being just those two, but after all, if they were truly superiors, they believe themselves to be. Then it follows that the opinions of others wouldn't matter at all, therefore, the only people they had to impress was themselves and, at the very least you gotta, give him credit for it, into their principles, no matter how idiotic they might be mild Would it be inappropriate to call them the rome ii and michel of true crept up? Well,

quite sure, although that was a very funny film, very very funny, also the inner circle, fantastic section: position this governess work. He did he brought him in manila folder. I like I went to open, it was doktor. Therefore, we really gets. You was research material. I know it's pretty unbelievable, but really the thrill of committing I'm in escaping detection was more richard. Lopes thing for nathan, leopold, part well: did certainly enjoy making richard happy the crimes themselves didn't given the same jolt they gave lobe to put it into domestic terms. Crime was richards hobby, his passion. And nathan was simply going along with an activity that he kind assorted enjoyed. So as to me. his new romantic conquest, happy to have something to share Ok, we do together it's a bad idea in any in any relationship. If you don't love renaissance fares, don't pretend like you love renaissance, whereas in the first three months relationship because six,

later or a couple of years later we ran desires, barriers and now you're loans, young person, it's gonna, but it's going to cause a big fracture seems highly specific. You money but also have something deeper set of you- can handle the wren fair. And you know your partner loves it would. Then you have a little fun with the written that unity grid like like wren, ferreting owen, anybody else I will read their assent into went but wren veers are. They can be divisive. They sound like a bunch of funding. We too much a turkey legs drinks a meet again. You could be not ginger info. I adore when ferris now you re about, we have a plan to go to reinforce later on this summer, whereby we are very much looking forward to a ok by something. I guess it's really about leak. They wanted the audience and then it's about their inner audience. Irina is about that about the hang out man, and why leopold there? It's about the fucking,

down or, for example, as far as how leopold went along with lobes crimes on nights, when richard would have too much to drink nathan would follow. Richards lead and park is car on a deserted street. Someplace close to campus then richer. Throw bricks through car windows and run back to Nathan, who would quickly speed away, but it was pretty sweet. It was so dont worry what I just know. It was verde naughty, the exact time too. Maybe now that we're driving around we could take a quick exit too bright. town is falling within it. Was you get me fifty minutes at work, and I wish this kind of enjoying the glow of snow all this will, of course, had something to do with the team. Here. This aid, the craziest behaviour from acknowledge fifteen euro kids, Damn it was the most exciting, most dark dangerous. She didn't know we're romania. They were just bored, I'm it's part of evidence that that's kind of my boy is it from brick, throwing

leopold low graduated to carthage after really joy, writing that escalated, smashing storefront windows, which then escalated further to arson and again between the three of us, We probably committed all of these crimes as teenagers. If I had to guess, I know him Certainly the aren't arsonist here. I know that else measure window how really I beg you as the joy writer and Henry's the vandal, I'm the joy ride. You can do both. That's that's interchangeable. The main crime is the one that you admitted to Marcus woody. daddy use what we had fun things. The opposition is called safe, like billy the kid got into my car again, but you know yours, like a house burned down, giving you never burned down a house. I don't know why you, but when it- and you know what I got caught for my arson, so I'm not commit I'm not admitting to a crime that there still surgery what the old mcluhan man's house I didn't know. I never burned down anyone's house. Never Never everyone he's looking up until the left

Look, I'm looking straight this fuckin zoom camera. Now uranium follow you start looking for formative at re, never burned down Any house sent ass it, but for us these crimes or about boredom, you know I set that dumpster on fire, because I was bored know you guys, through breaks through windows cause you were born. I didn't really robotics through window, which we did do the thing where you would do well, uh. Let's move, I don't know why I can t be he tried. If you want to hear, I can add, cannot merely not try to tell my teacher that I was going to cheat on the six month, exam in algebra one and he had to go. So that's murderer No, no! No! No! It's getting an obstacle out of the way what felipe alden low these crimes were feeding dark fantasies and with each crime the pair emitted without capture the more intricate richards fantasy life in particular, became richard low.

again to think of himself as a master criminal, whose ingenuity and cleverness could conceivably command the respect of shit. Argos criminal underworld. If you ever have to ask the question that you yourself are like you think, AL capone would like me I don't like that. What this is like be gettin a fuckin bond to first base and level egon. Expecting. Congratulations! Call from congress he's union for not getting even you wanted was to with courage, then you get it I can provide. You recalled you all the fucking time there was just a fantastic story, but a child of cancer, and he did request a home run be hit, and indeed a home run was step language pressure too nonsense about building a fire? Didn't get any thing? You know that dude he gets pulled in four look there, for words,

one, little cancer homer and has an asterisk snatch threatened, and then no one can talk to mark maguire. Ever again is this, but richards fantasies went far beyond just at attaboy from AL capone, richard low, but also fantasize about being caught, but with a twist after being imprisoned, he would be whipped and beaten by male prison guards. Everyone would be half naked, yeah, but a crowd of spectators. Mostly young girls would look on with both admiration and pity, he's so dark, so dark you're, the biggest girl at everything. That's why I'm here he's birdie sexy. You shouldn't free em, you giant gonna, bring him achieve, get him from his cup, suspend the bar. I would I will,

we watch him get whipped. All of them were I'm having a big one. Now you, ladies it has been. It's been like that one yeah, you should use. See you when you should see what I'm really horny wow bill. You ll vaginas, so filled up. It's a pretty big big one. It does that Are you making liable on the other hand, he was fulfilling a different fantasy entirely with this crime spree while low got off and getting away with crimes. Leopold got off. Serving lobe theme season, Nathan was around eight years old, his strong,

fantasy involved himself and the role of a slave to a king. and this is sort of like the unforgiving to video I mean a lot more browning Nobody in this is this is a young, any yang they're coming together here in what, in this fantasy, Nathan, leopold was handsome intelligent and strong strongest man in the world, in fact so bacon round, but he would still be a slave who had earned the gratitude. King by saving the kings life. Somehow, taking a boar and add, however, What you gonna do to save the gig, stopping for mean poison, grapes the queen digs, but even though the king, had offered Nathan the slave his freedom because he had committed such a thorough deed whenever that deed might be nathan leopold would always

choose to remain a slave to protect the king and save him from his enemies. In other words, nay, the slave would be the kings number, one guy you my number one is gonna reminds me of the time and I was on when the recession hidden, two thousand eight and I are guided corporate job and I was working in his office and then they offered me. there are like hey, listen, we know you want to be comedian, stop and there like. But what? If, instead of you be? and a we pay for you to get a finance degree, and then you can be promoted. in the company and make more money and be a higher up, and I said I'm a comedian. What You stay your assistant forever and innate fired me to do later the higher lulli so hard as they should gay. I do not know, though I thought it would be relief to them to say no stay a slave right How did you get here all right? You know I used to fantasize when I was real big, as opposed to now to canada, babe and am also really big

dependencies, but jump down grenade and saving the whole class again like. It also reminds me of like that. I used to have a fantasies little boy like you're, like funeral, like, while the guru dolls played relay do you think about vienna Daniele exist Suki, she will focus, cry now the unbundling dead at a lot of it but you won't. Have you want you? Wouldn't you do you remember you now she'd weep net, some swung to go on the road brow. Darwin Why are you always wanted hitchhiker dr, like like, like fucking Kerouac man like this fuckin, go on the road spoken out a super out back to some of the best miles miles per gallon of any power possible really does. But now I have responsibilities I cant do then, that sucks, brow, Yarborough canal. We're in another, version of Nathan leopold slave fantasies. The king would find Nathan as a young boy, beaten and abuse.

used by slavers, but the king would rescue Nathan and because Nathan, was so much the cats meow the king make him a member of the royal household in turn then will grow up and go on to own slaves of his own, who would be branded with the crown on the inner calf of their leg, to signify themselves as Nathan's property again He threw nearly noon in nets. These maiden. How I'm not saying I have this famous amazon, every tiny person. As this fancy damn right. It is absolute a tiny man's fantasy gazing a man's fantasy. But you know you got a lot of habit the only because you got an automatic, They have to be somewhere for that. It can be a fantasy reality yeah down now and then, but that's the thing as richard Nathan's relationship grew and as they committed more, crimes to gather no matter how petty the more there too, How does he lives became intertwined the criminal king and the slave? Who did his bidding? I feel you as a part of their,

Their browning sequence would be talking about this fantasy did. I would talk about this because he would prop up richard. Like lucy like you're, my king I'll, be your slave bubble, bow we're gonna do this together and richard sly gharra we done with browning. Can I be the merger really where'd you come from I'm here to watch now. I don't think that Nathan, Richard would have ever committed murder without the other two leg, karla, homolka and Paul Bernardo hope. I think Paul Bernard probably would have murdered without because you would scarborough rhebas. Well, that's the thing I think it's possible, but not probable, that power bernardo might never have escalated from cereal ripe to cereal murder. I think Paul Bernardo would have had to had to have accidently killed someone if he would have accidently killed on one occasion other ripen. Yes, he will become a serial murderer. Did the thing where he made it. So the murder was inevitable, cortical exactly act, but I ain't that carlo mocha, one of em

she wouldn't have committed, even one murder, much less three without Paul Bernardo and similarly richard low as a good. Looking sociopath would have undoubtedly done terrible things in his life, most likely in the corporate world workin for sears roebuck. But he probably murdered anyone without lobes encouragement, I mean who brought the chain saws sears. No, I mean so at sears as by weight, use hammers for, namely because we need to build a house with it all everything's. Murdering people give a good nurse. She would not nerdy to build a house. This old house, you foresee that you will pay them

but meanwhile he would have been a different type of non homicidal sociopath altogether. He would have been the sort of person who ruins the day of any person they come into contact with and makes every one in their personal lives permanently balkan. Neither revolves psychic vampire yeah. That is that's probably what he would have been happy. Not that richard love but ass. It was the leopold and low partnership nearly broke up and nineteen twenty one that year, richard transferred to them university Michigan in ann arbor and Nathan, desperate to keep hold of his king transferred as well. Oh, but shortly after Nathan leopold arrival, he caught scarlet fever then had to return a chicken. over his mother's funeral. By the time return to richard lobe Nathan found lover had joined fraternity, who had told richard that he wouldn't be welcome. Continued to let that creepy, where dude, with the stuffed birds blow him all the time. what I thought that was how you get into the voted. No, you gonna beset that guy's dick. Oh, my god.

I will now you don't suck taken the fraternity you eat, come it's a cookie. Thank you hope to different guys com. So that's the thing you dont know whose cut you giving everyone's comes. You Kennedy! No one's come! No! You beat in everyone's, that's that is man. Someone sold you want market recorded in everyone s or may have another any nudity. It's like a new eddie you're, all blowing each other, while they're like they like. Look at penises italian, tell men bond. I was ever into what I like to play with the girl now and so for a couple of years leopold him lobe, separated nathan transferred back to chicago in the fall of nineteen twenty three, but when low return to Chicago as well for graduate school. They reconnected at the age of eighteen and renewed both their friendship and their sexual escapade, for some reason

kind of feel like a failure during grad school with eighteen. I name is its there's. A community golly were also the sky ons of chicago, like either people that are they are they move in different circles that we would never we never see. These circle still exist right where they get kind of big, it's very special treatment castle. Do I know what you think that they, when they got back together? It's basically because richard low was already becoming a burn, like in his years in Ann arbor. He became irresponsible drunk like I was wrong. we really out of control is drinking, became really crazy measures again, but the day like he was one of those do had nothing but potential and all the money in the world and every eight export any avenue that he wanted and by then you can realized it and just sat back and party old time. you'd do the thing that all water, rich kids, do, that our opt out child they re literally, like hang out, get em

sit around all day and they knew that. But I think that there is something when he came back and met leopold again where he's like he. This is what I need. I needed mice, place as indeed in my slave. That's how I can be important now and also in intervening gears Nathan leopold had started inch closer towards richard lobes ideas of superiority, specifically after LEO, discovered and wildly misinterpreted the words of friedrich nature and the concept of the government. Now I tried I dread Give me a lot of stuff. I saw some involving I listen to some videos trying to explain cause. I know about need she not. She need use nature. Jobs really important, not to re nifty, argued for the agreements that have already nachos hetty alot ideas right. I can't

view him now, and this might be entirely wrong and I can't wait to be read defence, but maybe I am I don't know, maybe I'm slightly correct your rising a little bit analysis or crowley where on one surface on surface level, this kind of easy to misinterpret. Yes, You point spare her easy is areas because it gets done in a forum it some very seat like catch. You know like the whatever hills, you whatever doesn't kill. You makes you stronger the will power, like a certain things, easy that art catch phrases that can be used very easily by people with bad purposes, but also like it's about how you one package, by its really by looking in deeper, pass the four level and understand that friday nachos was way more Poet, a fuckin, worse, love language you much kind of oppressing now, ok, so the horse story, it's just ok sober nature were at near the like in the thirties or forties. He started to lose his mind just a little bit

and one day he saw a horse being beat on the street, and so he ran up to the horse any hug the horse and, according the legend said, forgive me mother and he He was never the same after that and barely spoken, which spends half an invalid member that when your truck court, a girl with frederick nietzsche in those behind the lie back for the gruber back, I dont think friday. Nachos has turned on a woman, wants his sister because now you find out that that was why you gotta collected by the nazis, go she brought all of these things over to the nuts into us. Down with you, She misinterpreted everything. Now nietzsche's now reaches vermont no need to manage, has been co, opt by ever from Karl young to of the nazis, but with interesting, is that to himself never actually define what the goober works and as in reset it was exe

his sister, who twisted his words to fit all of the nazi bullshit nature would not have been happy, but for nature. One of the theories and again this is one of the theories those were not fuckin, philosophy, majors my way like Chinese by minors- I didn't understand It- she also Cosette, was indeed she was trying to explain. Alike, will always detention to was the fuckin horse. That's all we have are unrelated. He liked a horse wants to monitor the right and not more interesting. I name YAP freddy not chose this fuckin keys complex and I actually don't know we're for what is stuff. I don't I'll fuckin nodded. Who knows? According one of the theories, the oberman was more of a vision than a theory mention in the prolonged to his work, a philosophical fiction. Thus big, zero through through nature, wrote

quote verbal, the man she shot of is the meaning of the earth. I entreat you, might brethren, remain true to the earth and do not believe those who speak too of supra terrestrial hopes Behold, I teach you see all by mansion. He is this lightning keep. Is this madness? Behold I am profits of sunlight and I haven't you drop from the cloud boxes ngos. Call all talk of bills, bring about the mccain below you did. The older mench is more like, as idea the idea of the person with the heat bit this this court and quote person, and with this this theory, The person has a higher mentality than others. They are, then, which is giving away but I do know whether out this is true or not. They are then separate from corner quote.

morality, but because their goals are so high, whatever they have to do, to reach those goals is chill. I believe that that is, that is one of the layman. Dumb shit, exe the nation remains theory then got ran too far, because it was only a fraction of the shit that Freddy nachos was even talking. Also oberman fantastic. new car share ride you get it there. Where your brain car, young women or men showed up was really can I don't want to take a new proposal because there's there's a new wave come in there and all of a sudden, you have got into this train car and it was very unpleasant lulli. I will love it when my uber driver is also a bit of a philosophical or as well, and you get a one star, but from this excerpt nathan leopold like so many deaths with a superiority complex before and after he expanded these

scant four lines, to justify his own. Morally reprehensible actions for Nathan leopold the governments or superman, I mean technically translates to overman but never liebermann also works as well. The superman's stood out side of the law and was beyond the moral code that constrain the actions of ordinary men and affect the government. Wouldn't even need to reference the greater good as a justification for murder, because they are, as in these in the state of being said over mench. They are automatically over man, so it doesn't matter what they do. We we do our reaction to what they do. Does it matter? Yes, that they could do the superman could justify murder by simply saying it gives me pay to do so. Then, of course that is they complete misunderstanding? What nature was trying to say? Yes, because there is an interpretation of the so called world powers was up

single transformation. Much like you know, each man and woman is the star like that. I know that you're, it's all about personal transformation in not loading and over males either way. It is a fucking, great weight. You just absolutely bring a hinge day too screaming all lately you just let it go man I didn't like forty nachos. Does it need to be out there as much anymore and people should listen more like what's a better You mean bond more about, like dune got me laid more. They nachos now tat gold, wait, fantastic parities out there again, the one about america which assume fantastic? Let me mention some of his films sure now or ass person. Questions now, here of what do you like to do for a living land you express your wheeled about wow. I but with this believe in mind,

leopold and low began escalating once more and this time they keep escalating intel, they hit murder graduating from vandalism, leopold, lobe decided to add burglary to their repertoire in november of nineteen, twenty three, was there a ceremony further graduation did somebody shut up like congratulations. Your great where did bombarding really does have some steps during a football game between the michigan wolverines and the quantico devil So why does it sound like it's? Just a group, a gas station employs leopold en route, lobe drove Nathan's, red willis, night sports car from chicago to ann arbor, to rob richards old fraternity. You know they both have liked, but because on what despots? What's the movie, the mets gus? No, the mad woman movie,

The man, woman movies, with lemon suicide bell and ass ass, dick you really ruined we're gonna, be all yea argument suicide at the end of it, everyone knows: commit suicide at the end of it. If you see wanes well, you know they commit suicide at the end of it. I think most people seem wins while too, I think it while the x rays world to know more after searching, through the house, with flashlights in their hands and revolvers in their pocket, slow leopold and came out with an assortment of penknives, watches and fountain pens, as well as seventy four dollars in cash, but the most important gotten gain was an underwood portable typewriter, which Nathan kept for himself but even while Nathan leopold came away with a new toy, he wasn't all that jazzed about the score or the experience on the drive home Nathan argued that the pay off wasn't, why the twelve hour round trip, but that wasn't what nathan was really upset about?

yeah cause. You know that in a couple when you write about damage shit, the mouth, the dumb shit, but with shit means more powerful, eventually, Nathan's anger was revealed to really be about the fact that he and richer didn't have sex anywhere near as much as they did. When they first got together back when they were at the university of chicago back, when we were children- yes, sir richard missing the point entirely, eight a proposition gallagher. I hear me out area an area and I gotta get to your empty. You want to be false. We're gonna, make a whole year and you need that operate. Absolutely there's like that. There's a pipeline brought my father. you know that the only shipping lines- ok filmy up, please or richer, proposed that if Nathan continued dissipate in any and all criminal ventures that richard suggested than richard would agree to brown with Nathan three times every two months, and this is where you get this word good rewrite that

go anywhere. I call you ve gotta thursday. We because Thursday's my favorite data. We only want to write it. Ok, I know we got down here. We got the second saturday of each month because that the parties entering that we go out right, gaudy will go into the bowling. Alleys. Will brown? Ok we'll go back out Maybe we can get as a cocktail us up a thunder legally, absolutely them. Maybe we can brown again depending on whether or not you are unaware something sure and when we get down here, we can do here the first monday of every last week, because what that does is right starts the weak brown? When the now you been drowned out I've been round in? and you know we can go back to We got a lot of the plans for a lot of things are moving around. Here must go for a little bit more. To be honest, I do not really know. Let's start with this. Ok any honestly! Next quarter we can from random, really look at some of the number of antibiotic maiden desperate to both halves. ex with an serve his king readily agreed, but richard

and to think that maybe Nathan had a point here. The frat heist had been far too easy and a man of richard suppose it superior criminal. intellect would need a real challenge in order for him to keep justifying, his own high opinion of himself female nathan's, like that's, not the point, I wish to make it all I'm looking for more dick. Yet I wish it would you understood here was that I am neglected me thin simply better solved. A lot of problems similar early Nathan as a supposed goober needed, submit his status as a person who could and should do whatever he wanted- even murder for any reason. So on the road back to chicago that began outlining what they thought was the perfect I'm too, we know from our ma barker series kidnapping was the crime does you're in the nineteen twenties, all the biggest and most infamous criminals were doing it so leopold an especially lobe

one account himself amongst the criminal masterminded the day decided that kidnapping was their crime to commit recourse, Yes, we got a nail now, of course, ransom would be involved and they need to construct an inch get planned, receive the met, ransom money without detection, but in order to remove any ants of identification and therefore capture they decided they would have to kill the child, and I also think that we took killing a child. Is it weirdly also ways failing that, they knew that it would be physically easier to kill a child verses, a full grown man, one woman rogan worse, like other herod garden, worry about your item. You know, arsenic, lace, candy, there's a lot of ways. You can do it anyway. You could tinier news, you can buy less rope zone, there's a lot away, logical their honour, but it does seem like they put on. It does seem that could put a lot of effort into the details of the ransom collection at it. Now a lot of details into the murder

I would argue differently, but we'll get to that point later put another way. Murder was not the point of leopold, him lobes crime. The point was to commit a kidnapping. seem a ransom and not get caught doing it for them Murder was simply a means to an end. It was just the next step in the plan, so with a course of seven months Nathan and richard continue to develop how they would commit a kidnapping. As you get a big fac. That's it we're gonna. Big sack would have we through one of those holes on the ground where you put it together all right. The building blocks of ski presented clearly fall down, heads renewed understand and it's not indeed a whole people. We use, and those in the vietnam war that we don't know about. Yet you conflict area of conflict and they started a plan and how they would get away with the subsequent murder. Murder boil down to complete simplicity,

The plan was to lure a boy into a car, knock em out, drive into a deserted spot on the indiana state line, kill, em and hide the body wants as such. For such a fuckin brilliant plan I mean I judge I'll get aid is aimed at down, is specifically, they would hide the corpse and drainage biped near some railroad tracks. At wolf lake, where Nathan leopold often hunted birds for his stuff. To bird collection in what I imagine is that everyone now will be so busy searching for birds most incredible way possible in the most incredible hobbes ever been they'll, never see little boys feet in a pipe. Oh, my goodness was far as how they killed the boy they figured a bullet would be simplest, but richard rightly surmise that if they were caught, only one of them would technically be the murderer, so they decided to both

strangle the boy by each pulling different ends of the same rope wrapped around the boys throat, and this way they were equally guilty. It such a nerdy way to break down a murder well and what why tit for tat again in relationships? Goods he didn t for tat. I mean look at that technically, a thing to do their bit in reality, if one in other words in the car and you help planet you're, both guilty emotional, mutually assured, actual unless one flips india examined that's a things that it shows that they did not trust each other at all. They both knew each other's essential nature, the hardest. Part, of course, was how they would obtain the ransom money in a quick and anonymous fashion, and after much discussion, they decided that the best Delivery method would be by train and Henry all right. They did put a lot of thought into this sexually, quite brilliant. If you want to know the honest, ruth, hey: what's up What are you doing? Ben Kizil you're within reciprocity

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telephone the victims, father and tell him to go to a drug store on sixty third and blackstone avenue adjacent to the sixty threerd street station. To wait for a second phone call that phone call would come just before the train reached the station at its scheduled time and the boys father would be instructed to board the train, walked to the rear carriage and look in a telegraph box for a letter with further and Russians. The letter would tell him to throw the ransom securely wrapped in a cigar box from the train five seconds after it passed the distinctive red, brick water tower of the church, the in manufacturing company oddity to omit disease brilliant because its wage complex and then the guys like what. If there was more than one red brick water tower, but it was distinctive everyone is chicago, knew about the champion manufacturing, company red brick watertown recently, and it was a big landmark. everybody knew about money, no right and if the package was thrown at just the right time than leopold and lobe figured that it would land close to

seventy fourth street, where they'd be waiting with the engine running sure enough when they rehearsed at multiple times the package- did exactly where they needed it to land. This is where did the ransom part seems to be way more about control. Mcgann, it's about a big. Again there not do you want to get the money, but they don't care about the money. I don't care about the money in just about had nowhere then the father of this child is running around do all of these CAS fear. You another way to extend their little criminals, almost sexual game like say like ok. Now we got him with dancing on our puppet string while he doesn't even know we boarded killed, diskettes, oh and its also about making sure that the car, scant, followed them their not being seen, and ultimately it is about not getting caught and thinking. Oh, I'm so smart for coming up with this very intricate plan that nobody could ever finally about

in low and their spending time were tracking down the ransom note and all that shit instead of looking for a body yeah. But since leopold and lower, both extremely wealthy leopold had a distinctive rich kid car, a red, willis night sports car with a nickel, number who wish that's gonna be bad for a get away now, so they decided to rent a car and create false identities to do so. This is all again. This is all like. It's not! I don't know I believe that their bogota, be it yeah, really it's why it's, how they spend their time, because then they put all of those other time into this fuckin play into issued the gate doesn't need to be. This labyrinthine die, and I actually I greatly simplified this plan, but basically, two weeks before the kidnapping was to take place. Then leopold walked into a car rental company and told him tat. He was Traveling salesmen named more ballard.

More bouler mysteries. Goes you more money? We use a hedge back, because that's where I call on the brown moby, absolutely my name is money was larry parole, apps leary programme, my body, Larry prologue, we're just at a good time. Look at all right card or brown men As my business man, I'm a businessman et cetera, going to rent a car I'll show you aid for under dollar deposit, employing down a man named Louis mason, as a reference which one hour's richard low. Who was waiting at a diner a few blocks away the rental car

they called for the reference and richard low, posing as louis mason said, that more ballard peoria was the most dependable young man. He had ever met in his life and, as a result, we uphold and lobe secured and untraceable rental for the day of the kidnapping set for may twenty first nineteen, twenty four, that the day before Nathan and Richard went on a shopping spree to pick up everything they needed. The kidnapping, the murder and the ransom note that the funds yea it preparing for vacation again its awesome grundy the shovel, the little snickers by Joseph and with little. Maybe we can get a little bag of chips I don't have time a care this. If we got it would have been a little bees, a ham, we're moving just in case we get hungry

but then, if we get the hand, we're gonna, have to move but I'll make you the hamburg did to most where we have already heard you were doing a murder here. Ok, now that we have the ice, we get some guy too much of what we're having for luncheon. None of our house needy calibrated but from the stationary store nathan bought paper on violence and a box of chocolate, creams. pretty much gave me barons. They use a man ready to write a love letter. I mean my chocolate creams whore soon after though Nathan went to a drug store and bought a pint of hydrochloric, acid and half a pint of ether, which suggested a different kind of night altogether, I can you can just, That then knows that was the first speed ball. Oh I see back, then you could. Just by that I mean he told

clark like hey, I'm a student over at the college, I'm doing some science experiments damage is more, but in a year for yeah, not browning, I am already ditches. Do business with my acid. I board. You know me mother. Richard meanwhile, bought though murder happens from a hardware store and the same neighborhood as the drug store not day richard low bought a rope and a sharp edged chisel with a wooden handle two preferably be used for bludgeoning, but stabbing was certainly an option as well. If we're feelin fun, if you feeling that that's funny murders Your hardware store, I mean come on now, that's with cool about hardware store. Is yours ran about those weapons, they still smells like nails, yeah and finally, they wrote the ransom letter. Using a note public in detective story magazine as a model, nathan type, the missive on the other

would typewriter he'd stolen from richards old fraternity house and did so without any grammatical spelling errors, which will be very important later on spilled, beverly wrong. Now, I may have you done any research into the comparisons of the lender, daily, appalled and low burdensome letter and the germany ramsay rents motor. Nor have not have you ass. You say in gold cook goal I guess we're hungry, we ve killed boy. Did everything was set and at eleven a m on may twenty. First, nineteen, twenty four leopold in low met up to commit what they believed was going to be the perfect crime and then leave. They were committing it just for the sake of it. Three on it and after reading the car, under previously established identity of more ballard, my name's board ballard straightest given this guy on fifty seven years? Maybe look like I do these seven years, all businessmen, fantastic Nathan, drove the riddle.

Are back home, while richard followed in Nathan's car nathan's car was then dropped off with the leopold family, chauffeur, spin, English, who was told look at the brakes on Nathan's willis night, because they ve been squeaking as of lake Tom ridge. Acted for my eyes. While the rest of his readers joke miles in the car was spencer breaks. Polly just need a quick greece and it's not gonna, take long at all, but nathan got indignant and he told sven to completely take apart the braking system and put back together again back together, you have you any list. It come on actually method. I actually had a bite of that smokers bar as I was following you and I think I was angry, so I oh great and over the molecule child payable. We're doing when my wife, but this ensured that sven England would be see all day long and once then was put in its place. Nathan took the murdered

bulls from his car and loaded them into the rental where richard was waiting by one p m leopold and lobe arrived at their, so called hunting grounds they chose st surrounding nathan leopold on the matter. The harvard school for boys, not just because, and was familiar with the area, but because they were almost guaranteed to pick up a boy whose father could easily pay the ransom. Yet it sounds like it or the harvard school for bouygues. I just sounded just sounds like a place for kidnappers to live through a justice of absolutely horrified and indeed leopold and low did have a list of potential victims, starting with the kid johnny levinson actor stopping johnny on the street and having a chat leopold them lobe learned that he was about to go play baseball at a field on forty ninth street. The plan was to watch the game,

follow johnny home afterward, lure him into the car and kill em, but luckily for johnny he decided to skip the diamond on. fateful day and they watch our whole little league game? Yeah yeah, that's just the worst. I feel like nothing under bears the mark of a criminal more than when I see a man in the airport watching the children's world series money, alleys, little leagues, have they like I'd, give me or with a bunch of grown ass manner, like elegant alike, so this fuckin aust, but our up and out- and I like it on him- he's got a good said autumn. He's got a good game, is not long arms it in a big, deep torso, and I wish I could really rap my answer on himself. Quality was, but it is hard and let me go, let me feel it really. Frickin grow like eating, especially when it comes to sports like la brahms, on the cover of s eye when he was an eighth grade, I think, and they were scout them since, like fifth grade, which means they just have to watch budget chapter five, ask a percentage is boring. It just came in basketball yeah, it's kind of a gross business. No, it's fine! If your kids playing

cupola by a stranger watching a bunch of children play a sport is strange sensing dollar signs. Why we go to college football games because I feel it because school kids Use orange may kill dream exactly you had a further. I get it from college, just the weirder watching college football does seem laughter real seeing the johnny wasn't common law poland, low returned to their car and spent another two hours just driving around and just when they were right give up and try again the next day, lobe spotted a fourteen year old boy boy walking alone down Alice avenant. She go no lobe immediately pegged him, the ideal victim, but when he look closer he found he actually knew the boy the boys name was Bobby francs anymore. Only lived on the same street as richard low, but he was also his second cousin. I don't I feel it can embody francs, you rip off your arms and beaten to death with I'm. Not francs is a tough name it down.

Sounds like the name of the kid whose picture you'd see with a candle next to it at a way like it does seem. Like all Bobby frank sitting now long brothers, world news, frankfurter, nitrate levels are bad for you, Bobby francs, his father, Jacob francs, had actually purchased his home from richard lobes father, which meant that not only was a ransom guaranteed but luring Bobby into the rental car would be that much easier. But once nay, and richard pulled up to talk to Bobby they found the Bobby didn't really need a ride, because he was only two blocks from his house. I need a divergence a jar me like a ha ha ha. That's your problem is pull it didn't like a child like me into the garbage. Unlike you guys, aid trying to suck my dick oh yeah, twenty bucks was richard, responded by saying He just wanted to know more about the tennis racket. He'd seen bobby use the day before, because Bobby played tennis at the low mouse fairly. Often richard knew this guy

I understand why you don't want to resolve that. Yet we have the kid alone, and so Bobby francs agreed to ride around for a bed and talk tennis, on the front seat. While nathan drove and richard sat in the back, then as Nathan leopold turn the car down fiftieth street richard low reached forward covered Bobby's mouth with his left hand, and brought the blunt cited. The chisel down hard on the boys had with his right bashed his second cousin skull again and again, spattering blow all over the car and Nathan's clothes Bobby attempted to fight back, but eventually gave up at which point richard pull them into the back seat and stuff to close down the boys throat. As long as it would go, he then covered Bobby's mouth with tape, after which Bobby slid down to the floor board and died from fixation? Damn that's a frickin, brutal murder! Oh yeah, it's very far from the plan already now here can

anyone on calmly Nathan drove toward the indiana state line and the pair stop for hot dogs. On the way, with Bobby's corpse in the back seat of the cap, the ottawa does Jill your second cousin today draw the existent bt k joke. I think yeah his name, or literally, was Bobby francs yeah, I like doing everything that you can apply to should heads you can, on I d leopold in law. Do now, do you know you? Finally, after dark, they arrived at wolf lake, their disposal destination the continued with flash, to the drainage pie, they'd already scattered out to stuff Bobby's corpse inside where they believed the corpse would quickly decompose and disappear through a combination of drainage trickle and summer heat. Once they arrived,

leopold and low blade, Bobby's corpse on a blanket and got to work on disfiguring the body just in case anyone found it in the hopes that identification would then be impossible. Will this would make it, quoting quote the perfect crime? Yes, there so stupid. First, they stripped the corpse naked import. A few drops of hydrochloric acid. On the face to burn away the skin, then Nathan poured the rest on the corpses genitals, because he'd heard that it was possible to identify a body by the shape its general thrillers like who really talking today about how to remove you I'll see. Bedraggled do another number, do that's the grossest factoid I've heard in a minute just about some already ashuelot book you read were Sherlock was like now know exactly who that is shown by the vagina will. Finally, it came time to shut the body into the drain each bike, but frustratingly for the to suppose it master criminals. The pipe was too narrow and it took quite a bit of effort

get it to fit even a little bed, in the end, the feet still stuck out cheese. I just don't like the look of it. like the look of it, looks like a deranged can. Normally. I don't want this to be a signature. Have we not hidden so not a good idea, dirty italians, The thing that leopold and low were soon discover that it doesn't matter how long is spent planning your crime. If you leave evidence behind europe and just as rich was climbing out of the drainage. Ditch. He heard a metallic clink after searching with his flashlight he couldn't find anything incriminating, so he decided pocket. Probably wasn't it colonel get there before you handle it. Impose, I've got to get your word your second cousin hot dogs, so he and Nathan returned to their

to secure in their belief that they'd committed the perfect cry. Stupid after returning the chicago they drove to hyde park, bought two six cents stamps and mail if the ransom note, which is sure to arrive the next morning. Lastly, they burned Bobby francs, his clothes in the basement furnace of lobes house, at tenth. that night. After all, the hard evidence was disposed of. Leopold them lobes. Wheezed into a telephone both together at a walgreens and made the first call to the franks home. He is applying. Not stop that. You know what your lap a laugh. If you stop it, they did not trust each other at all. No and I if you're just saying that you're like how non inconspicuously is that too to a jamnia as evil looking ages does all like all muslims. Similarly, I owe you you're fat, its work,

You got a after reaching Bobby's mother or because Bobby's father wasn't home. Nathan, said this rapidly and clearly in a tone that was later described as educated faith is Mister Johnson and they limit their boys been kidnapped. You know those offering good do. I gave a detail. We have everything you need, not worry, he is safe, but don't try to trace is gone now. You're trying to its scope must have money. We must everybody, we will let you know tomorrow what we want ants you fuckin gap daily, fuck that you put an art, we're kidnappers. We mean business, big business and our view fuse us. While we want or try to inform us of the police. Oh, we'll kill the boy. She has no idea that the review

yes, I'm going home movies. They remind me walter and larry play. I were by walter and bury the two boys who love each other too much, but they then hung up the phone and went back to me Then leopold home to have a celebratory drink there, they ran into Nathan's father, who praised richard low for being, and I quote an excellent influence on son, how you wouldn't believe a daddy? He influence all over my lower back last night step on have some fun with it, but when they. and was driving richard back home later that night. They realized they forgotten to get rid of the actual murder weapon. She chisel all also master Chris, richard lobe, simply tossed it from the window. Thinking no one would see he absolutely brilliant. Love is a thing is all about the cortical, perfect crime and then all the planning goes out. The fuckin. Where are the worst

that they could have done. I mean not all everything else so quickly. Getting really shows that they had no real world experience. Obviously in mobility, and I know what to do, but because I heard they were as well deeply arrogant entails. That idea of that he's them they. What's the text thing with a shrug My literally he's doing that with all these. Can it really is a? U? Maybe it's sort of borrowing Nathan's viewpoint like you know, maybe we are over measures. So what will do it all worked out? nato giovanni area, knowing this, they were wrong, night watchmen named Bernie hunt heard the clink of the chisel hit the sidewalk and after he picked up the bloodstained, implement he saw that it had been thrown from a distinctive red willis night sports car, with nickel bumpers and was the only one in every four license plate that says brown me incredible. How he couldn't have you got that that's your edged have fun jure. However, there was still one gigantic piece of evidence to take care of the next day, and that was the rental

are with the murder actually took place here the next morning. The leopold We chauffeur sven found than in richard scrubbing. A mysterious red substance from the inside of the vehicle seems to be of some form of some them down here there now do what used to be form of exploding region. I am here there's on lowering jerry by jerry pie. You know look at that, be thinking quickly. Richard claim that they'd simply spit Why? Why why? Why are you? Are you always you when you're dr soberly scenario, they're just having about driving? What lay then said, you'd appreciated, if spend didn't, mention it to his parents, because they had been doing a bit a bootleg and- and this is prohibition, so it a couple of kids zones and, while those doing some bootlegging glass of water, a bottle of wine breaks, it's not the most implies

thank you. I remember when my father dropped. His cog in the third went on intuitive Nergal or used for his dog, and it is very difficult to be in the flower or you'll logical given thank you, then so sven england kept his trap shut for the time being, eventually, Sweden, england, would talk a lot and it will not be good around the same time. The ransom note arrived at the franks home claiming that Bobby was indeed still alive, the note demanded tin. thousand dollars in old bills, delivered in a cigar box, wrapped in white paper and sealed with wax, and if you do, read the actual letter, it's the truth and hence used in both of the lead, anyway. You don't like any really is its very distinctive

let me look at in the germany ramsay ransom. No two, you look at me like that's that's fucking, weird HU. I never data used the word and hence down we do then, hence sometimes if it's it's appropriate but I use sarcastically was and hence, and then I took chit being, loads, and I like saying and hands, but I think I just like saying and hands because of the job in a ramsay. Now- and I know that that's a big deal- that's a big at then. Why, while you like it that my truck What would you do in detail that what you want to cover your own cup with tat in germany, Ramsay ran hands? I already covered it up with my fucking sick, ass castlemaine, you tat, to which I got down by fuckin Tammy b, nite owl tattoo. Over and again Northampton massachusetts go jack, I'm thereby get back at our good will

also warned that if the kidnappers instructions weren't followed to the letter, the boy would die if they did what they were told, though Bobby would be returned within six hours of payment, but neither leopold and low, nor the franks new at this time, however, was that Bobby's body had already been found, o Tang, a polish pump worker, named tony mink ye had easily spotted of but poking out from the dream pipe in the early hours of the morning. polish euro happens now, and you can of course discovered the naked body of Bobby francs nectar, calling police and pulling the body out of the pipe with the help of a few other men. Mink and the others search the area for the boys clothes, but what they found was something else entirely just a few feet from the drainage pipe. Another pump worker named Paul course found a pair of expensive and distinctive eyeglass.

As with tortoise shell frames, which were assume to belong to the victim, but the glasses didn't belong to Bobby francs rather belong to richard low and its there. That will pay back up for part two of our three part Syria is still is one I'd. Always I've got my glass, and I make my colleagues have already said, is true crime history for reason, because the process of the investigation will go in then it's going to be repeated throughout history. homes in the bebop. Let me give an example of a celebrity crime. Try comes. You should write like some a biggest aims into, century. History will be their liking. Only somebody like clarence darrow who's got. You he's gonna, be each sure thing it is. You will see that it really. It works its way into history and that arrogance restrict its. Do you know? It's not. You gotta be careful what your fantasies lead. You do need absence

Leopold and lobe to people who I'm excited here, to just become new jersey, some and we are coming to nashville a day will be there. The riman auditorium all they'll be ends, gonna, be there. The jam, rees gonna, be Iraq and you have you Maybe they're wheeled about, like a hundred tickets, were combined tickets to be put your, but in the sea empress indigo again, I have no clue if we can do this again or when we're going to do that and if no every single. I mean that every single albion showed doing their own segment, like, of course, will be there. He owes him we'll do arza our segment as well, but this is silly and lp unfocused show where everyone's gonna be doing their own thing? No dogs is based. We got a fucking supercool bit. Written can wait before live no doctor space life for the very first time, as can be so fucking great

like a man, that's gonna, be we actually have a lie. Bad, it's gonna be blamed the music, for it can be determined, goin ears, man, I'm so excited and your family to which you like I allowed on their musical. But if you can't make it in person got a moment house dot com, slash, lp hotel and you can buy alive shrimp ticket watch it from the nudity of your own home, be great men, because, again I don't overcome do this again. We can't wait. And my only word of advice have your first beer started to show the end of it. You'll have five or six india and you'll be ready to rock unrolled nobody debris particles. It's gotta be about three hours of eggs, big. We want you to remember and top at all, be there page seven will be there. You see how all of the strange looking bodies that make part network, and then we got last comment book on the left or scylla. Nanny get a go in order. It from see two comments. If I get its absolutely gorgeous looking through that, so much of work and time

and love went into this book, and so I hope you guys like it and is basically hence regional jack's gonna new new blend renew its credit that he said de collected me because I said it was light arose. It's not. It's just feels later same beads same role there. We go a little bit of a different technique, but equally, as d she's a lump sum for spring you'll jack. I had this morning and I could not just just so nice a ship. Absolutely really embarrassing, I go down there and again, and heads recital b engine for myself when I just back up the tracking of b, b b b dad in a room and land or national I gotta evacuates some ways there already everyone would thank. You much for listening failures, hill thanked him, eugene mug installations- everybody knew men, solutions. All rough all the children were absolutely. If you see your second cousin walking around

Go hang out, have a nice time together. Don't look! You don't get unless tariff dont give now not even then, it gets its mutually. If you're gonna get caught nationalities ass, we get a frame and them for murder of themselves. Maybe for suicide. Look at our two! Let's get to her too. You show was made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our add sponsors, you can support shows by supporting them for more shows the one you just listen to go to last podcast network. Dotcom curiosity pushes you forward, leading to new discoveries. It's what inspired mayo me to use the best that coastal california has to offer to push flavour. New directions. This resulted in wines with a taste like no other, enjoy the board for Rivers may only penal war, cabernet sauvignon in the newly released red blood disk were the unrivalled tasted naomi at shot me me dot com that shop Emmy.

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