History can be easy to brush aside or paint over, giving us the illusion of control. But just because we can’t see the past doesn’t mean it’s not there, active and powerful, working behind the scenes to remind us of our tragedy and pain.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
They had discovered something unexpected conservators working on a painting by Pablo Picasso back in nineteen. Ninety two noticed odd patterns in the artist's brushstrokes lines that didn't seem to match the overall composition of the peace, so they decided to take a deeper look
On closer inspection, these conservators noticed the tiny cracks in the surface. Paints revealed more paint beneath paint of entirely different colours, and today they know why
thanks to advances in X, ray technology, research
had been able to peer beneath the top layer to see what lies under it, Picasso it seems, painted his famous work, the crouching beggar over and older landscape, and it's not the only one,
The technique called over painting and usually happened when an artist didn't care for the previous work or had a better idea for Picasso. It might have been a financial decision. The crouching beggar was a product of
early blue period of time and money was tight and new canvasses were hard to buy. So he took a landscape he'd already painted and built a brand new composition on top of it and that's life. Isn't it
there's the part everyone sees, and then there are the parts beneath it. All things can be beautiful and entertaining invaluable and yet hide something older beneath the surface, and while we can't change the past, if we look deep enough, we can certainly gain
better understanding of it. In the centuries of distance they piled up between then and now, and the alteration
that are made along way. It's often difficult to recognise the truth. Even the places we call home can evolve over time. Transformed by the people who live there,
and few cities in America demonstrate that is perfectly as New Orleans, but be careful
because history has made one truth abundantly clear. The more you dig, the more tragic things become, I'm Aaron Monkey, and this is lore
If there's one thing, New Orleans has an abundance. Its layers for thousands of years people have called that little patch of dry land on the delta. At the end of the Mississippi River home who live. There, though, seems to have been a revolving door of diver,
cultures as far back as one hundred BC, a native american group known to archaeologists as the marks bill, culture occupied the land, their complete with permanent structures and agriculture
nine hundred years later it was the Mississippi culture that took over thanks to the temperate climate. These people spent a good amount of their lives outdoors where they accept that fishing and hunting
they held on for quite a while to watching the silt from the great river. Slowly, expand the land they inhabited year by year, but it wasn't until,
sixteen nineties, when Europeans first arrived, they experienced major change which might be one of the bigger legacies of european colonialism. More than anything else, they brought change and it was right
a good when the French arrived, they set up all sorts of businesses that would be expected trading, goods, hunting for furs and experts.
in the larger area around the river delta, so
of the settlers joined local native communities, while others branched out and built their own. One of those was Fort Saint John, although it was hardly a blank slate. The fort was literally created by replacing an ancient ma.
Seal structure, those early years of colonialism tend to be pretty confusing. Looking back from our spot today, there seem to be a constant switching of powers and it can be difficult to keep it all straight.
Some colonies were a lot more straightforward, like Massachusetts or Virginia, but New Orleans officially founded in seventeen eighteen, has been more tumultuous than most.
for the first seven decades. It was in french control. Then, in one thousand seven hundred and sixty three, it changed hands to the Spanish who held onto it for nearly forty years. Then, after a brief
And the French, the city was sold along with a huge portion of the southern part of North America to the United States in what is now known as the Louisiana purchase ever since its ban, one of the greatest american cities, but all of those overlapping cultures have given New Orleans its own flavour and texture. Take the word creole. For instance, it started out as a term used by the French to distinguish between
I was born in the colony versus those born back in France, when the Spanish took over in one thousand seven hundred and sixty three they treated at the same just with citizens who weren't born in Spain
Over time, though, it took on a more racial connotation denoting so
one who shared european and black descent, mostly from the Caribbean and it's a word that seems to embody that shared space mentality-
Community growing up an old New Orleans was multicultural, with diverse collection of origin stories, but all focused on new lives there. In one specific place, the city would go on to become a cultural, hotbed of music and food all fuelled by that mixture of cultures. And yes, it was a prominent centre for the slave trade in the south, which is a scar that will never go away, but it was also home to free people of color who emigrated to the city intentionally. It was one of the few places in early America where it was
impossible to look out on a crowd and visually identify slaves by the color of their skin. I guess my point is that New Orleans was and is a complex city. Racially speaking, it was home to black soldiers who fought on both sides of the civil war, and it was one of the rare places in Amerika. Were slaves were allowed to maintain large chunks of the cultures they left behind when they were captured and sold into slavery? There is that chapter of history, a painful unforgivable mess absolutely, but that mess looked very different in New Orleans compared to other places. At the same time,
powerful example of those differences can be seen in the story of one man, Louis Congo, who arrived on the scene around one thousand, seven hundred and twenty four Louis Congo. Wasn't his real name, mind you.
It was the name he was given as a slave when he was brought to New Orleans years earlier, Louie for Louisiana and Congo for his country of
He worked for many years as a slave under an oppressive system, but something changed in one thousand, seven hundred and twenty four and it altered his life forever.
in September of one thousand seven hundred and twenty two, a hurricane flattened most of New Orleans to the ground. When the people there brush themselves off and began to rebuild, they did so with an eye toward improved
the new city would be laid out in a grid. New laws were put in place, the guide its growth and a new role was created to act as incentive, a public
The I dont know how or even why, but the man they hired to fill that position was Louis Congo. In fact, he was freed from
slavery and given the new job as a paid position, every punishment he doled out earned him a fee on top of a salary of food and wine, along with the gift of land, to call a zone. In fact, for over ten years, he was the only person in the entire community who is legally allowed to hang convicted criminals, regardless of their race or place of birth. He was even tasked with non deadly poison.
when stood like amputation, branding and whipping sure the job earned him almost constant hatred and abuse. But that was no different from executioners, who did the same work back in Europe all throughout the middle ages.
Sadly, Louis Congo was a rare bright spot in an otherwise bleak and tragic survey of the city, sometimes the pain and suffering,
he was brought on by natural disaster such as the great fire of one thousand seven hundred and eighty eight that reduced eighty percent of the city to ask while other times it was all the product of human nature. What's clear, though, is that suffering was a part of life for a very long time, and those dark marks have managed to stick around long after the people who caused them, have faded away and there's no better place to see the remnants of that tragic past than inside the walls of one of the most historic buildings in the city, but be warned because, while you're free to check in
make yourself at home. The only residents who seem happy to be there are the shadows mentioned. The city of New Orleans did just about any one and your likely to conjure up images of bourbon street. It is too many
the crown jewel of the french quarter, a name that hides
little known detail. Most of the buildings in that area are actually spanish by design.
it goes back to the great New Orleans fire of seventeen. Eighty eight that I mentioned earlier
Early New Orleans was a product of french colonialism, but when that blaze destroyed eighty percent of the city, it was under spanish control. So the rebirth that took place in the aftermath followed their preferences, not the French, just a couple of decades
after the city began to rebuild itself. A man named John Davis decided that the local community needed a place to gather and celebrate
Theatre on Orleans Street burned down and eighteen. Sixteen, he scooped up the land and started construction. The result was named creatively
The Orleans theater and ballroom four years. This theater was the place where the most delete events were held, masquerade, balls, formal events, even european opera.
It was high class and exclusive. The Orleans Theatre hosted it and it was like that for decades, but then in eighteen, sixty six fire destroyed the portion of the building that held the theatre, leaving only the ballroom intact.
Within fifteen years, the business generated by just the ballroom was no longer enough and the owner decided to sell it. The buyers, though, work what you would expect, instead of another theatre company or even a property developer. Looking to flip the space, the old building was purchased by a group of roman Catholic nuns, known as the sisters of the Holy family, the first african american religious order in the United States. They had founded a school for girls and eighteen
fifty whether congregation had been growing steadily and they needed the space. Thankfully, the Orleans theater and ballroom offered plenty of that over the coming year
there's. They would fill the building with a convent, an orphanage and their school. They did a lot of good, but also weathered many storm
In the century that they own the building the nuns watched as wave after wave of yellow fever rage through New Orleans, it was the sword.
outbreak that rarely left anyone alone and sadly, it reached their orphanage do, while a good
or of the children survived and and.
phone number of others were killed by the sickness, and if the stories that are told today are true, many of those children have state around
Today. The building is home to a hotel, and many guests have experienced things that can only be attributed to children, youthful laughter and empty hallways invisible hands that tug on the shirts visitors, the light footsteps of a child in places.
should be unoccupied. The most common, citing, though, is of a little girl plane with a ball.
Sighed the sixth floor, hallway those that have witnessed her I'll tell the same story
After stepping out of the room to find her plain, the ball will roll off down the hall and the girl will chase after it a moment later. She vanishes.
But ghostly children are the only unusual guests in the building more than a few people at the modern
hell have spotted a figure that known only as the man they claim he's dressed in the gray uniform of a confederate soldier
and wonders the hallway on the sixth floor and at night they claim he walked slowly past the rooms dragging his sword along the floor. Even the old ballroom can't escape the unusual activity. In fact, a ballroom is the reason the hotel exist today.
Because of the historic significance of the meeting space, the city only allowed the hotel to be set up inside the building, on the condition that the boy,
room be restored to its former glory. But if the rumours are true, not all of the past is fun to remember visitors, of witness
everything from ghostly, ladys dancing beneath the chandelier to a mysterious figure that seems to stay hidden behind the curtains that surround the room, most
and though our tales of the bloodstain in the middle of the ball rooms floor no matter how many times the stain is cleaned, it said to reappear a short while later, perhaps most frightening Volvo
are the reports that have come in over the years from guests, staying in the hotels room, six hundred and forty four, it's a room with a story, although there is no proof that any of it is true.
Some say that one of the nuns who lived in the room took her own life. There are more than a century ago without documentation to back it up. Story is nothing more than speculative fiction, but you can't blame people for trying the things that have been experienced. There certainly demand backstory. For instance, many people are awoken in the night of the sounds of tortured, groans and painful cries as if someone were in great distress. What steps have been heard too
in gas to feel as if they are not alone. Most frightening of all, though, is the vision that many have claimed to see. Now some might blame the drunken nightlife of bourbon street or exhaustion from a busy day of sight. Seeing and I understand the desire to find logic in the unexplainable, but it's difficult to brush off what dozens of people have seen in the middle of the night in room. Six, four four in every case guests have woken defined. The figure
woman standing over them dressed in a typical clothing of a nun, they say she doesn't move but stands very close to the bed. Her head bent low to look down at them as they sleep and each time it happens. The guests have done what you are. I would do in the same situation. They ve sat up reached for the lamp and turned on the light only to discover that the ghostly none has vanished. True or not,
these experiences illustrates a deeper lessen. The past isn't always safe or fun. In fact, sometimes it can be unsettling Marie was born more connected. Her uncle Esteban Rodriguez MIRA was the governor.
Of Louisiana. In the latter years of spanish control than her cousin served as mayor of New Orleans to say that she had powerful role models. Would be an understatement or first marriage was to a Spanish
officer named Don Ramon, Lopez's dweller, although it seems to have been controversial first, she was only thirteen when they were married and second, it seems Ramon neglected to ask for permission
the king of Spain. My guess is that he knew that the answer was going to be. No, so he went with the old adage, it's better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission
his disobedience earned him a post in a small unimportant town, but within a couple of years he was able to smooth things over
five years into their marriage tragedy struck a pregnant,
Eighteen year old, Marie was travelling by ship with her husband when there was an accident off the northern coast of Cuba in
any of eighteen o five Marie survived, but Ramon did not
leaving her a widow before many women would even have been married. So she handed back to New Orleans to begin rebuilding her life.
Three years later, in one thousand, eight hundred and eight she married for a second time. This husband, John Blanc, was a prominent merchant and banker as well as an attorney and legislator in the new american version.
of Louisiana. He was a match for Marie in terms of connections, but also added a lot
new wealth to her name together. They had for children, but within eight years of their wedding. He too passed away Marie, of course,
heritage, all of that money, but she also inherited hundreds of slaves. Apparently, blank died with a lot of death and so to preserve the wealth that she had left. Many of those slaves were sold off
not all of them, and that was a decision she would later come to regret, although for all the wrong reasons in the wake of the death of her second husband in fifteen years,
and still not even thirty years old, yet Marie had already established a powerful reputation for herself part of it centred around her business acumen and ability to make wise profitable decisions with her growing fortune, but a bit of it also involves her treatment of the slaves she kept locked up at home. It is public knowledge that she had emancipated a number of them over the years
she didn't release word treated kindly at least in front of guests. Most people in her social circle, a very powerful and very wealthy circle. Mind you viewed Marie
as a generous carrying person, but they couldn't have been more wrong.
In eighteen, twenty eight Marie married for a third time or new husband Louis
while the re, was a twenty two year old physician who specialised in back pain and physical abnormalities. They built a gorgeous new mansion on Royal Street, with three stories full of all the trappings that came with life in the upper class and, of course, their slaves, but just for you
in a couple. Separated Lui moved out of the new mansion while Marie carried on business as usual, except there were rumours that her pretty facade covered up a darker truth, whispers that the oh so kind, Madame La Marie freed slaves and gave them wine was not in fact treating them well at all, backed by a law that stated at slaves were shown to be cruelly treated could be taken from their master. An attorney was hired to visit Marie Anne
evidence, but it seems that she hid her secrets well and the lawyer left empty handed a year or so later, more accusations of the same led to an appearance in court, but her money bought her a powerful the fence and she walked away unscathed. Not long after that, though, a neighbor witness something terrifying:
into the earliest accounts. It said that the neighbour looked out their window to see Marie chasing a young slave girl, threw the yard then into the mansion as Marie and the girl power
by various windows. The neighbor was able to follow their pursuits all the way to the top floor, and then they watched in horror, ass, the girl was thrown or forced to jump plummeting to her death, but
when the authorities arrived. They found enough evidence to take nine of Murray's slaves away, but almost immediately she had them repurchased by members of her extended family, and I can't begin to understand the despair. Those nine human beings must have thought there hopeful rescue from an abusive home all erased by the power of money. It was a precarious situation that was building toward collapse and that day arrived in April of eighteen, thirty four,
when a fire broke out inside Marie's mansion thereon Royal Street at the time the cause the blaze was unknown. Although interviews after the events made it clear, it seems that Marie kept one of her slaves chained to the kitchen stuff,
and rather than go on living under the abuse of someone so cruel. The cook said the room on fire, a fire that quickly spread to the rest of the mansion.
It said that Marie and Louis who happened to be in the house that day worked furiously to save their precious belongings, but their slaves were unaccounted for
So a neighbor saw what was happening. They rushed to help specifically looking for human lives that needed saving, and it was during this frantic search efforts that they found something that shook them to the core
Behind the locked door of the slave quarters, a portion of the mansion that was set off from the rest.
The neighbors found nine men and women chain to the floor and ceiling. Some of them were covered in fresh wounds and some even worse, spiked colors, designed to keep them from lowering their heads. All of them, though, we're starved, emaciated and close to death. One of the original Document- author Harriet Martineau Road,
while the aftermath just four years after the events in her book, she included what she discovered about Marie's typical morning, routine. Apparently after breakfast each day she would step into the slave quarters. Were her captives were chained, locked the door behind her and then whip and beat each of them until as Martineau wrote, her strength failed. One description in particular.
Has caused even the most resolved historians to shudder contemporary newspaper accounts of a discovery claim that one of the men was found chained in annealing position, his head so badly beaten that open wounds revealed portions of his brain. Although he was still alive when rescuers found him, those wounds were said to contain life maggots slowly, feeding on him. It's a lot to taken. I now it would be,
I still believe that one individual couldn't be that cruel, Marie Valerie seems to have broken expectations
she embodied the drastic change in attitudes in New Orleans toward the value of human life and the autonomy of a person's body, a change that she carried even further over the line to her enslaved human beings were not just her personal property. They were the soulless targets of her
abuse and cruelty in the nearly two centuries. Since the events took place, many people have speculated as to what her motivation might have been. An some people are
seemed to land on insanity, but
Some one who had lost all touch with reality could do such a thing. That sort of excuse paints over a darker reality
while Marie Valerie might have been an edge case. The brutal abuse of slaves wasn't atypical. In fact, it was sadly the norm and
Marie knew this in the moments when her mansion was ablaze and neighbours were rushing to help her and the rest of the people inside Marie.
Tempted to send them away claiming that they
it's a mind, their own business, she feared discovery more than the flames, and when that happened, she fled. It said that Marie, along with her estranged husband, climbed into their carriage and escape the scene heading for the harbour and a ship that would eventually carry them to Spain, away from the mob away from the consequences of her actions and away from the wreckage
of human and otherwise that she left behind Madame Marie Delphinus salary would never set foot in New Orleans again while alive, but that doesn't mean she was forgotten. She taught the world just how tragically wrong things can go when the powerful have no regard for human life, when wealth and privilege are used as a shield for cruelty to hide behind and when the many are left to clean up after the few and hopefully that's a lesson, will eventually master
things often look different beneath the surface, there might be a lost work by a famous artist hiding beneath the paints or a layer of archaeological importance just below the topsoil, but could also
we'll be rots and decay in China.
those that are better left buried. New Orleans certainly is a city with layers.
While it's easy to fall in love with the modern surface, with all its charm and music and grand celebrations, it would be wise to remember that there is darkness beneath that beautiful facade, not to glorify it, but the
Is it as a road map for change and Madame LA salary? Is one of those dark? Stains
trouble is her. Story has been changed over the years. If you ve heard about her before today and listened with a bit of confusion to my account of the fire and discovery of her tortured slaves, then we have a bit of restoration work to do because time has a way of altering the image muddy in the details and hiding the truth
So let's dig deeper. I mentioned earlier that Martineau wrote her account of events just four years after the fire and that's good. The closer a source is to the actual thing it's discussing.
Better, throw in contemporary newspaper accounts and public records, and the picture that unfolds is pretty much the one that I showed you today. But in a century since then, new writers have appeared to paint their own layers
top of the truth stories that Al Gore and violence and a lot more drama some have described.
Seen inside the slave quarters as a sort of medical facility,
with Madame LA reworking beside her husband, the physician to perform experiments
I have described bodies with grotesque disfigurement like eyes that have been purposefully, gouged out or body parts that had been cut away like years and fingers, one
Wild embellishment even claimed that one of the victims had a hole in their skull through which Lowry had inserted the handle of a wooden spoon, but its fiction
decorative additions made over the last five decades or so to make the legend more attractive to fans of horror, its story. Yes, but not the story, not the truth.
But does it mean the true story is lacking for darkness? It just means that we don't need to invent any more of it on our own. One truth we do know is that the house was sold in the aftermath of the fire, and the money was sent back.
Marie back in Spain and for a while, the old mansion sat empty. Maybe people were afraid
this step inside it after hearing about what had taken place there- or perhaps it was the rumours of the ghostly screams that could still be heard inside the place at night.
But the house was eventually repaired and not long after it was sold
an resold through the MID eighteen hundreds over the years that followed it, which,
its form into a music conservatory, a furniture store, a bar and even high end apartments, but the first thing it was used for after it stopped being a home in the years following the civil war was school were girls,
Color- and there are stories from that period in the mansions life there had already-
tales of unusual activity in the building, but these school girl seemed to have experienced more than their fair share. Oftentimes the activity was benign adores that opened and closed on their own or the sound of footsteps in the empty house. But every now and then, according to the tales experiences were
lot more violence. In fact, one of the more mysterious things to happen was an isolated to one or two of the students, and it wasn't easy to ignore. It seems that a good number of the girls approach, their teachers privately to complain of abuse and every time they would pull up their sleeves to reveal large bruises and vicious scratches horrified. The teachers would naturally asked the girls who did this to them in their answer was always the same with fear in their eyes. Each girl would give the same inexplicable answer inexplicable. That is, if one didn't know the history of the house, they describe their attacker as that woman.
It's not often that we return to an old topic for a fresh tour, but if there is one place to break the rules, its new orleans- and I know I
probably still manage to leave out one or two of your favorite stories, but that's the beauty of the place. Isn't it no matter how deep we dig is always something new to discover. In fact, I've got one
or tail from the big easy that I think you'll love stick around after this brief sponsor break to hear all about it.
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New Orleans is a city filled with historic buildings, but not
all of them are very old and a great example of this can be found at six one, six Saint Peter Street. It's called the la petite theater and it holds
record for being the longest continually operating community, theater and America, but that's not all. It holds, of course, the land that the
Stands on was bought by a group known as the drawing room players, partly because of its pedigree. That's because a theatre had already
their way back in the late seventeen hundred but was destroyed in a fire, something that was all too common for theatres in the days of open flame stage, lighting.
After that, the lot was home to a civil war barracks, a cafe and whole list of other businesses until it was torn down in the lot, was sold the nineteen twenty two so for the drawing room,
where's their new theater was a sort of call back to the old days or restoration, as it were, to bring a little bit of the past into the present. Although, with the stories are true, they didn't need any help doing that some of the oldest memories of the past seem to be sightings of civil war soldiers. Visitors have seen figures dressed in uniform, walking down hallways inside the theatre
and others have heard the rhythmic marching of boots on wooden floors. There's even one civil war apparition that's been seen so often posing in front of an invisible mirror that those who know about him call him the vain one being a theater. Some of the unusual activity can be noticed by others
then site. For instance, there have been many reports of eerie piano music when no one else is in the building. Some people think it's the ghost of a composer named Louis Moreau Gottschalk, who performed in the original theatre that stood on the plot of land there. More than two centuries ago, others think it's just a bit of overactive imagination as always I'll. Let you decide that for yourself, but the most talked
remnant of the past hands down his Caroline. I dont know exactly when her origin story is supposed to have taken place, but the tail is one: that's been whispered about in the theatre for decades. Caroline work there at the La Petite and is said to have fallen in love with a stage hand, whose name has been lost time.
One night, though, after meeting her lover on the catwalk above the staged Caroline plummeted to her death. Some say it was an accident, while others believe it was murder. History, as we have already discussed, has a way of letting a bit of drama creeping. So it's difficult to say what the truth really was, but it's
easy to see why that story has stuck around that's and the modern sightings attributed to her. Many who have work
they're in the past claim that her spirit still wanders throughout the theatre, some even save
She is spot in most frequently on the catwalk leaving cold spots for modern stagehands to notice, but the most frightening story about Caroline was reported just a few years ago. According to the tale, one of the theatres directors was working alone there late at night, when he noticed the curtain net the right side of the stage move out of the corner of his eye. It was almost as if someone were brushing against it walking over to the curtain. This director expected to find a coworker hidden behind the thick fabric, but after looking behind it and finding nothing, he returned to the stage and ass. He watched just a few feet away.
It began to move again as if being pushed by an invisible hand or body, but the most disturbing feature of this citing was the direction of the movement. According to him, the curtain looked as if it were being brushed against by something as large as the human body and whatever it was. It was moving slowly from the top of the bottom, as if something or some one had fallen from above.
This episode of law was written and produced by me, Erin, making with research by Taylor, Haggard Doorn and music by Chad. Lawson more is much more than just a pod cast. There is a book series available in bookstores in online and two seasons of the television show on Amazon. Prime video check them both out. If you want more lore in your life, I also make two other podcast Erin, making cabinets curiosity
and unobserved, and I think you'd enjoy both each one explores other areas of our dark history, ranging from bite sized episodes. The season
dives into a single topic. You can learn more about both of those shows and everything else going on over in one central place: Thou world of lore dotcom, Slash now, and you can also follow the show on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, just search for lower podcast I'll one word and then click that follow button. When you do say hi, I like it when people say hi and as always, thanks for listening.
Transcript generated on 2022-03-11.