In this edition of Change My Mind, Steven Crowder heads to the University of North Texas (aka the Harvard of Denton County) to see what students think about biological males competing in women's sports. In the next installment of this contentious issue, Crowder sits down with someone who identifies as a "white male" and someone who identifies as a "f***ing idiot." Find out who attempted the best arguments.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
If you feel like you're, a woman,
everyone around. You is just constantly saying: biological, biological, biological man, doctors, doctors, but what that's different I mean. Okay, let me rephrase that
the welcome back to the final installment of my changed my mind. Trilogy biological men should not compete in women's sports in part one. We sat down with Isaac and although we had major disagreements, he proved to be articulate respectful, as you saw in part two. We all endured a very dark middle chapter filled with deception, regret and smug journalism, while today's third act find redemption for humanity or will we once again find ourselves assailed by activists?
our tune, characters and army surplus jackets with nothing to lose, but their dignity, meaning nothing to lose welcome. Here we got our first conversation again at U N T today was between me and a student in hue hears helping. Our conversation is more constructive than the one we hadn't part two.
you for sitting down brother
nah I'll hold a discussion of the people, try and steal expensive. Just have someone run by and try and throw a milkshake who, I believe was
I believe was a woman, though it wasn't very ladylike, it's a waste of a damn. Milkshake, yes check. I dunno. If it's a frosty, I dunno. If it's some kind of a sandwich
If then were every now and then a milkshake and contain concrete or acid, because you know today's modern leftists so tolerance. We have to run into this. I'm not saying you, I'm just saying we run into on campus, so I get huh thanks for sitting down.
from where you are, with kind of what this is all or what the program does kind. The brief version, it's just one.
If will sit down and hopefully rationalize their positions on what are often seen as controversial topics, and often we are successful with that.
today. Obviously, in this is sort of something we planned before, but now that way at Thomas just won, the
incidentally, women's chairmanship more than one of the races,
not believe that biological men, biological male, should be allowed to compete in women's sports.
See you! If you disagree with me my chest
I assume you're sitting down and feel free to make your case and treatment. So I disagree. I believe that for one thing
I don't think it should matter. I think it should be about the sport. I think, if you're passionate about the sport
one area no one ever it should really matter, but there is definitely
it's something to be said about. Can I ask you some general quarters before what do you mean?
it shouldn't matter, so it meaning. I don't think it should make a difference whether or not you have a penis or whether or not you have a vagina whether or not you participate in women's or men's sports, or you just believe that there should be no.
in divisions at all. It's just me all men and women compete against each other, not quite so here. So here's where I think so it doesn't matter so my positions have it a little bit more nuanced than that. So,
if you bought a penis- and you start-
there be it changes the waiter your muscles grow
you're a couple of years or after a couple of months, you're estrogen, your muscles
I change and they start growing like female monsters and you're, not actually given that much of an event or you're, not they don't have as much of an advantage as you think they might be sure about that. Well, I guess
I'm not sure, but I also not to buy anything from Walmart, and I don't
off that way, then why are you sitting down there already that I don't know that I don't want it's not fair for me to beat up on a quote: unquote: fucking moron, I'm not trying to sell.
I haven't. I dont have scientific peer, reviewed studies at my back to quote rats us, as I understand it,
it changes the way your body works, your body.
Becomes more feminine. You lose that you
in muscle mass, then you might have, and so after a couple of months of hormone therapy a couple of months or a year, it doesn't make that much of a difference,
Well, you know now what if that was entirely incorrect and that were entirely incorrect, then yeah. That would be different
different, but I think we need to re, evaluate what stance entirely incorrectly would be different. You mean that mail should compete with biological males and biological, most biological. Assuming that just a few,
well months or even a year or even two years of the hormone replacement therapy doesn't make that much of a difference if it doesn't make that much of a difference. I think that you could make that. I also think that it's doesn't make much of a difference. It doesn't make much of a matter of fact after he to two reasons why
separate argument, but I want to kind of hold you what you just said, because I think maybe we agree
because this is a lot of people. Don't know they ve done these studies conducted them
always make all the references available on the website, as this goes up after a year,
two points after a year of hormone replacement therapy, hormone suppression, specifically for a man from the mantle woman, they lose about five percent of their total strength, muscle density,
actual volume of muscle.
There are also other benefits that remain so first off tester is not about testosterone when you're taking testosterone in utero and testosterone, specifically through puberty, it's not just muscle strength. Anyone who's done spring training or sports knows, there's
most was theirs muscle volume, there's muscle, strikers, muscle density, there's fast, which muscle fibers are slow to which most there's a robot capacity. There's theo.
Emacs there's lung capacity, there's bone density, there's red blood cell count, there's connective tissue strength. Ligaments
about. Eighty percent higher in
and those are not reversible as a matter of fact, even after an entire year after two years after a year, it's five percent about a loss, five percent off, not a big loss
and you see that by the way with that's, usually a tunnel-
sampling as point, if you
Leah Thomas, the man who just won the females swim.
To intermediary five hundred metre place fifth in one one of the other ones, those
I wouldn't have even placed top five hundred or top eight hundred talking about
beat the Olympic Silver Medalist. One even plays top five hundred against meth reduce a five percent, still not even close
so. Ok, they still have an unbelievable advantage. That's why we have mentioned
sports to try and keep a fair and for the safety of the players. Second, not
that you were saying if, if gets
second point there was I'm trying to remember what it was so. My second point is that it should be more about the sport
I should also mention sorry, that's what I was thinking. We have these different studies.
Also the doesn't require any hormone replacement therapy whatsoever. That's that's different. I think
the big problem right now with we just don't know
going to be a lot of experimenting with trying to
whether or not trans people can know how to include them.
or tat include them in these. In these activities in this, competition is not an experimental at the cost of violence,
I know that's definitely I think if that's the case, it's messed up, but also
mistakes. Have I think that
you're insane mistakes, outlying regions, rusting them upon right, women right, I'm sure that, obviously
I would imagine in college campus,
of a feminist who support women's equal rights
certainly women's right to compete fairly and safely. We both would so, let's not thrust and expand
taken upon all the empirical and anecdotal data that we have thus far shows it's unfair, its unfair there's a difference? Mistakes have long,
I haven't looked at all the data. I haven't check that all that stuff. I can't say whether or not that's true,
I do believe in. I think, if that's the case yeah, they should totally okay. They should totally fix that they should totally you know, do whatever they need to do. I mean do whatever they need to do to make it fairer.
Everyone can also just what we ve always done behind biological males compete with male rang biological fingers compete with similar. I also don't rangitata. I also don't think it's fair to exclude that's also,
you said yourself excluding if you have people with penises,
if we have a penis division and we have a vagina division, isn't? Does that mean that the Trans athletes in the mail
now the vision and the theme of the region, I did a disadvantage, naturally. Also
What about the other way around? If you have someone with the penis taking taking Esther President,
you have someone with a vagina, taking testosterone compete in the female division
We want an advantage, yes taking steroids right, it's illegal running,
Sorry, sooner the words these issues already exist, if
Amelia can compete with biological females and, if you're about,
if you're female you're not allowed keep those roles.
Have a third division for everyone. I mean why don't we have,
but that I would not with her eyes now to be fair. I think. Maybe I just think it later. Division,
The third division would be great, even a fourth or fifth or fifty fourth, because why not cares so? I think here's the thing you just said, you're an idiot you actually have.
it was tenable position you have today. Let me explain your anatomy. Now, I'm not just shining your here,
I dunno why anyone with shiny ones as an expression, you read your ass trying to get a good ass shining. Today you go to
in stationed near shoes, but sex.
or humans. That's presented on canvas- and I don't really agree with this- that sex and gender are definitely because it's a very modern theory and gender with a grammatical term, but I think we would both agree that what is taught as transgender
is biological, gender, societal right, gender is social. That's the current status of is what's being taught today in general students. Okay,
not a position that can be argued if you say gender
ex are different to then say also, you can identify as a biological female what you just
it is actually remarkably consistent that okay have a third division.
as this is a gender issue. It's not a biological issue and like you're saying, is that, even though it sounds absurd to you and it sounds,
to me, if you say, sixty nine harmony, many genders truth is gender. A separate from sex, then we would have
It maintains that sports male female men's women's divisions are separated by sex biology. It's the only fair way to do it. It's the only fair shake that women get, and then people identify as a different gender, I'm finding a third category and I'm genuinely I'm okay, doing a fourth and fifth category. If they want to do that, so we said that that's a fair compromise
I think that's it. I'm united
it's. Honestly. It should be more about the sport and should be about the integrity of the activity that you're doing it should be about the athletes. It should be about the people
actually care about it. Shouldn't just be about trying to win,
and I don't think that Thomas honestly- I don't follow sports- I didn't even know, but it's not
was just trying to get a gold medal. You know it's about. Swimming it's about moving your damn arms in the water. It's about kicking your legs! It's it shouldn't be about
author about sports. I are what are winning, but it should be about the competition. It should be about be the the integrity of the sport and
that's being maintained. I agree, but we all know entirely intimating up on women. Exactly
find a way to include Trans people in them.
To find a way to encourage them in that, because, honestly, they just want to live their lives. They just want to compete in these sports like anyone else and if they don't have an outlet to do that
if the only way that the atomic can compete and feel like herself is by is by competing.
the female division. Well, then yeah it is a little and it isn't. It's also unfair to her to say that you can't compete. Sorry, all your your life as a swimmer, his own life isn't
Is it unfair to a heavyweight to say you can't compete at bantamweight biology is biology and sports are separated by biology. That's not unfair, it would be unfair to say you can't eat at a diner. No, but it's fair to say you can't rent at this apartment because you're trans, it's not unfair, to say you can't compete in the biological women's division. I just made a lot of progress now, you're going by the time it was a different gender division. I agree with most of what it's a little bit different. I think
having a heavyweight compete in a featherweight because Trans
people are biologically different. I mean, if we're talking about Bio, if we're talking about biology when you take these hormones, it does have an effect on the body.
Isn't even a train in other, isn't, even if there is a need for the atomic. So what what what should she had? Literally a time limit, but that's not quite sure leotard? I mean Thomas Mann, I dont really at times of the biological, mainly the atomic
born with a penis
would mean yes, biologically that she was born
we are born with a penis and X Y chromosome Leah Thomas, had more testosterone and overall overall sex hormones in utero via Thomas went through puberty, which defines bone density defined, ligament strength defines Vo two MAX defines red blood cell count, defines contractile strength of muscular tissue. Leah Thomas went through all that and Leah Thomas was competing as a male up until only a couple of years ago, just like Fallon.
Fox was a male who fathered children and then two years later shattered a woman's orbital bone ramen know, but it's not quite fair to say that she is a biologic.
we've just as male as you want me right, because after taking her years
estrogen. Acting all that's not it did effective. I mean you said it yourself. Right is at least five percent change right now,
far less than the demonstrating, for example, a heavy weight, and why have you the plight of the differences so radical? It's so radical between kimono says one thing till we, both men and women there you're at another, sets recently men and women, but I think this is also a radical difference between transmission and log in people by violence committed against fires. Nice parliament's physiologically go
no one's- argued that up until very recently. You believe that
Why dented so? If, tomorrow, I-
identifying as a woman
biologically I'm different than most women here.
I think you'd be an apple, because that's not that's not how transgenders and works. That's exactly what's happening. That's what happened with Mary Gregory, a female powerlifter! That's what happened with Nick Rock a female, a male to female power, there's a documentary on it on Amazon called transformers a transformer.
A crappy one transformers transformers when I believe his was Matt Crockett
it's some, I can't pronounce then Janae Marie and Domino.
in women's divisions. You see this with female powerlifters. You see it with male to female transgender power. You see it in cycling records being set. Yes, I could do that. I could in one year's time it would be the exact same scenarios, Leah Thomas identify as a woman and a man
sports two weeks time,
According to the International Olympic Committee, I wouldn't have to undergo any hormone replacement therapy at all and just say: I'm a woman. What's the how? How do you know that? That's just one
It needs to be regulated, that's just a rule that needs to be something that needs to be accountable, but I also think it's it's a little.
Disingenuous disingenuous to say, yeah. I am a man and now tomorrow I'm a woman and I'm going to compete in these women sports cuz. That's not! I don't think good
Thompson. I dont want logical frame of reference, yes, but there's no time, there's a lot more to sports, Lamotta Life and just biology, since you know not to sports to sports, it's about winning and it's about, and we separate them by biology. You may not like it, but that's why we separate
I don't think that's and that's why I think we both agree before if they want to have a third to keep it fair to keep it safe. We can have sports based
and additional genders, but have the traditional, the original sports of male and female, which are separated by biology to be fair, just like weight classes just like age brackets, and if someone wants to identify a different way will say well in order that we protect women and also you not feel marginalized, you can compete in the third division. I think that's what that's what this is. I still believe. I absolutely believe. I also don't think that there's no way that a Trans athlete can compete
now in a trance division and sovereignly Thomas, I feel bad, because if she wants to compete, she came
there's no transit compete, so she asked, if feel bad, for the woman who sheep
we ve, all the women who we attain was beaten. You feel bad for the eighty plus women who have now asked
and scholarships in international rankings. Of course I feel bad for them, but I feel just as bad for them, as I do believe, Thomas, because you know what, at the end of the day, I dunno any of those women just like I dunno Leah Thomas, and I think that we should consider everyone's ability to
We should consider everyone's. You know
image estimation. The solution is for this LEO Thomas situation.
I'm not I'm not involved in swimming. I don't know if they need to have a different one. Sister Lucifer
in women's sports male and female sports, which has always been separated by biology. It cannot be changed, no matter how many hormones you take. What's the solution continue
going with what we have done to ensure the safety and equal opportunity of women as vital line exists or
send all events that we don't hurt some people's feelings. It's not just
just be this or that we've been what is a solution, a solution of a transit. First of all,
other. Translate. Had more divisions or more people can
we just have an argument and leave or you're going to have robot legs. You know, let's just see how far we are yeah. There was a guy who had his south African who had no legs me and those bent back paperclips that he ran on and then he killed his girlfriend
What I mean. I think that story- I don't know, but I was running around like everyone around one thing was: I looked like you is from that, sir,
sector, nine movie
If he was going around these these little like bent back metal paperclips, and then people complain that he had an unfair advantage. He doesn't have any legs, it's like well yeah, but those are basically mechanics
at that point and also, if you wanted to compete, how can you there's? No, you know mechanical currently able to compete. You don't get too that's kind of
I just think I think that's lame to the sward less labour. The active! That's that's that
the disservice to people who want to party.
I want to set a bench press record. Can I do
I want to start a World Bank press record. Can I use a crane? It's not. I don't think I think you're gonna about
sport wrong if you're just trying to break a record, there's a lot more involved in breaking records
these women were afforded scholarships and coaching jobs right there
important. This is that it's not fun to be an n c double a you know: it's not fun to be a silver medalist at the Olympics, like the lady wanted to play. Second, it's it's a it's, a tough tough life and then you're ripping it from them. Because someone who was a middling to low end male swimmer decided I'm going to be a woman next year. I don't think that's fair.
I don't think it's looking out for the best interests of women
I think it's I don't think it's it's talk,
much about women in you're talking so much about the rights.
What about the transport do not do they not also have rights, are also human humans. We don't want us, I mean I don't think about it, just rights, a complete! That's it we're talking. If we're just talking about sports, it's a little.
No, they don't go to target and a movie with some I make up. I don't care, but it's the hatred.
Which you speak about, one hundred, the way that you talk about them, doesnt,
how I spoken about this? That's disrespectful. I just don't think they should be allowed to beat up
on women or bait women at sports. No, that's fair! But there's a isn't. Is there not an underlying? What do you think about Trans people as a group? Do you hate them? It's
No, I don't I don't. I don't know you.
And no, I don't hate them at all
I feel I feel very, I feel sorry for many in what of for
I think that we're dealing with a demographic that now we're getting off of the topic here, but I think we're going with the demographics. It has a nineteen times, a suicide rate of a population. That's a forty two percent attempted suicide rate, and I do
that denying the realities, the constraints of biology and the human condition is helping them. I think that were actually
putting many of them in, especially when you involve hormone replacement therapy and when we know what estrogen does to the male body when we know what else,
Excess estrogen goes to the female body. We are in an attempt to coddle them rather than seek assisting them
if you're putting them into a shallow young can
so then do you think that transgender or being Trans is a disease more than it is a lifestyle
I don't think it's a disease. I think that you would have to look at
very, very strong,
correlation but causation, because you would look at both pre and post the suicide rate. Doesn't the temperature is about forty
forty two percent for about forty one, forty two percent post on
Health issues are through the roof.
the regret upon transitioning, even though very few of them actually do go through with the bottom surgery. Hormone replacement therapy is very right,
I think we have to look at that it's. Why is this happening?
this community and how to how do we actually more effectively address that than just say
However, you identify complete that way and we used to say gender and sex we're different, but now will allow them to be one of the same and sports. I dont think its productive in honest for me
it breaks my because I think about the fact that the suicide rate is long, so many of that
are so why that's because society
he hates them because of the way the semi people treatment. Failure, like you, I think, that's part of either the suddenly a mental health aspects, but I also think that if you feel like you
for a woman and everyone around, you is just conscious and biological, biological, biological, male doctors, doctors. What that's different! I mean. Okay, let me rephrase that I don't think that
it's fair to only think about the rights of women in sports, without also talking about Trans Mental Health. I mean there's so much
into all of these. I I agree, but I think are separate issues. I think that bias
I meant we both agree. Biological males should not be allowed to compete with biological females and sure we can address them.
addressing mental health issues. You know it's interesting, you bring up. I I don't agree with the premise that it's because society hates- I don't agree with it because matter of fact minorities in this country.
Minorities historically have a lower rate of suicide right. Black people have a two and a half times
the rate of suicide than white individuals suicide. I don't know if you know is almost entirely a myth.
Wage white male problem. Also, I don't believe
They have it worse than Jews in Auschwitz, because that's a twenty five percent attempted suicide rate. We believe in a transgender individual in twenty twenty two because
can't set another women's swimming record is going to attempt.
side, the committal worst life than Jews in Auschwitz table. Worst life are being trained to work with us added an american slave and nowhere else, no, where else,
Can you find this parliament attempted suicide rate outside of people with some?
Your psychiatric conditions that we address in this case were saying
No, rather than addressing someone, let's say a paranoid schizophrenic looking to say, those delusions are real
That's what we're doing right now. That is why the suicide rate is so high. That's why it doesn't get better after treatment. It's a it's a very hurt.
breaking reality we find
this way now for a couple of decades and it hasn't yielded good results. It's yielded worse results, so then you do think that transgenders, music business argues, I think they buy their own by their own.
duration. There is rampant mental health
environmental health issues in the changeover to every right. They have said that, because you think it's a disease, you think it's something that needs to be ironed out. You think that they just need to figure out how to link had a few. Have
I think that if someone is biologically a male,
I think right now, you're a man and I can tell your man- you can tell them man, we don't need to do all the the you know the college doublespeak here, I think,
You know, look down right now at Europeans and and you to go through with what it takes to cut that off.
I want you to this mental exercise. I want you to think about for a second. What kind?
mental place. You would need to be in to hate your penis, so much that you have it.
And turned into a non functioning vagina for the rest of your life, which, by the way full very
they prevent you from ever achieving sexual climax again to think of the men
estate state that you would have to be genuinely put yourself there, that's not a healthy place to be I
as black and white. I think, there's a area where it's not just about cutting off
it's about feeling better in your own body. It's about that. If you look yourself in the mirror, you know, and- and and you know you look at your-
talk and you're. Like oh man, I just I I can't live with this thing. I just it doesn't feel like me. It doesn't
Who am I to say, you know what you can't go ahead. Cut it off, I mean who are we to stop them from doing that, and I'm not saying you're right, I'm not saying you can't. I just don't think it's fair to characterize it as hateful for me to say that seems pretty severe
it seems extreme, but that also just show,
how uncomfortable they feel. I mean
I can't imagine looking at myself everyday and then just not feeling like my
I mean you had every day in someone else's body, never feel like you're
That's that's your own body walking. It is your own. Leave at saint, also feel like you're neurons are unhappy with if you're, so, if you're I mean, if it so bad are talking about.
changing your body getting bottom surgery, its
it is a bad mental state, but it's also a good rubric.
It's a bad mental state, but not in the same way that, but it's not it's not corrected by going through with the transition it gets slightly worse
that's that's an individual case. By case no citizen, I think the attempted suicide rate stays the same pastry and again
It's double that Jews in Auschwitz and I think that matters
think that matters, because people will throw the he did. You know he is no hate.
Just like I don't know, I've heard people my family who struggle with severe bipolar disorder. Patron saint look you're not seen
clearly. I've had to do that
This is not accurate. It's clattered by your mental health condition.
Disease or the difference between a psychiatric condition and a disease
actual disease state
to characterize out as hate is also what creates this bully pulpit that causes.
The harm to women and women sports and look, I think you care about people. I would.
appreciate, though I don't demand that you may
recognize that I do as well. I just have a different, different approach to it and different solution to it.
and I believe that women need to be defended just as much just as much as other people do.
Play on the third division,
I don't think that you're a hateful person, but I think that you're a
to help and fix the trend
community are misguided and I think that your efforts could be better spent, helping them in it within the platform that you have in the audience that you have, you could use some
to make their lives better in a way that you know in a way that isn't you don't have to advocate for that. You have a pretty big voice right now. As we see women of the year right, we have trains, their female admiral, not woman, Admiral Female Admiral, Rachel Levine just had a man, a transgender woman or a biological male transgender woman, just win a medal.
At the Ncaas for me and today, I'm choosing to use my voice for the overwhelming majority of female athletes who often sort of get science. That's why? But how often do I appreciate them, are other ways to help to talk about suicide. I just did get. That was something else.
what we've done that we've done. There are only two generals that that's a separate discussion today, but thank you. Nice cruising get some hot thanks here. There you have it while you and I didn't find a lot of common ground. I appreciate that he was able to actually sit down and listen to an Iphone.
point of view, while presenting his own issue,
more about. This channel point of view be sure to subscribe and most of all, just tune into the daily show Monday through Thursday, live at ten, a dot m Eastern.
Can't all be changed. My mind mostly do
The security costs but live weekday morning shows is the next best thing see you tomorrow, back the topic at hand, of course, to college.
campus is filled with men,
a strange beast as you all well see. However,
there are a lot of great people that come out to change my mind and this day was no exception
across a number of kind and entails
students and some of them like this young lady, even
It's some valuable insight, fair enough. Thank you for your contributions.
Next up and our final interview, we have our boy Jackson, let's go.
Is this one on a strong note? Jackson, don't know how familiar you are at all, what kind of what this segment is or what is that we do, but it's not sure the
opportunity to hopefully rationalize our positions and are sort of controversial topics? What I've noticed is people will often have rational discussions on topics that are maybe inconsequential and something that evokes a visceral or emotional response. It goes out the window and, unfortunately, on college campus college campuses across the country. You often are only present with one point of view, so hopefully this allows people to be able to expose themselves to different points of view. So today. Obviously this is something we were planning to talk about for a while, and then we just had the Ncaas swim meet this last weekend. So now it's a hot button issue. I don't believe that biological males should be allowed to compete with women in sports
if you disagree with that I'd love to hear in case you're, more than welcome to change my mind, I could try. I find it interesting as well as when you come to college campuses is, you know, usually bias one direction and recent times this campus has been a little bit more mix, not sure you came here because of the recent news
by some one direction, usually a campus,
on the location is going to be biased.
What's always left events
What college campus? Would you give me an example of that anywhere in Texas man yeah? I don't. I can't think of Wyoming. The only one I can think of is really in the country would be a nam and even then, when you look at professors and stuff like that, and it's very conservative
but no conservative, but you know, there's a large majority of Texas. Is you know, country towns that I came from a little country, town at my high school graduation class with two hundred people? So it's like
They have never going to college campuses, experienced conservative bias and scientifically that I can only systems you should go to. Is you along, like private christian call? It is, I can imagine what others most of the college's really takes. This dinner, conservatively bias in M is Texas Tech.
don't rush is their thing either way. No work experience, there's a lot of people that think just like. Well, that's not really where I go to visit. That's why I visit places like Uti and places like? U n T, there's a little bit of beauty. Awesome! Beauty! Awesome!
since pray. Let me now, I preferred actually have conversations bitter
in the opposing points of view. It's kind of one of the things that we do, because I don't really like an echo chamber left or right yeah, so yeah. I know it'd be really easy for me to sit down with nothing. But as a matter of fact, today we haven't had a single conservative sit down, because we give the right of way to disagree great circles here there are yeah. Now, of course, we're not going to have somebody tried to throw a frozen, latte or milkshake we're not going to you yeah right there. You see this is a waste of a good frothy. Well, either way I dunno if it's a frosty or but now I appreciate a good conversation. Well good. So I'm sure you would condemn the violence and the disruption as well. It definitely is not that I don't even know what this guy's doing either with Yoda think it's definitely appropriate. Radical Trans liberation now means, but it doesn't mean that I appreciate that you and I can find some common ground and that I would almost argue it's nonsensical, a Yoda mask and a radical transformation. Now I don't know what size and he won't speak. So it's not like I'm going to be able to figure it out. He's just doing he's just well he's just being a little bit of a what's up
I don't think a biological all should be able to compete with women by
a female sports, and what do you disagree with on that? And how would you want to change them? I think as a whole, the issue is only in the current times. Our world is changing every day and especially on this campus, you can see a lot of different opinions and views and different people doing what they want to do, and I don't feel does that affect me in any way when it comes to sports. It's a little different. I think this time in history is very special because we're so connected. We've been connected for a few decades now, but at this point really are exploring that connection even more or what do you mean by connected internet connection, we're not very connected, I dunno. If you've been on twitter lately, I don't feel warmly connected to my fellow man, but now I agree with your point not connected. It doesn't always have to be positive. Yes, exactly we can be connected and foolishness, yeah sure sure, free speech, but traditional either way. I think rectum twitter, interesting, okay, well, either way figuratively sports are different. I think this time is everything's changing everyday. I think sports at one point
there shouldn't be gender involved. I feel like that should not involve tenders, not involved with sports. Do you mean sex? Are you saying that gender and sex are the same thing, though I misspoke but sure sex or the place that I'm not trying to correct? I see what you actually actually. I appreciate that you're being consistent, because I have had people sit down today and say that sex and gender are the same thing. I'm not one hundred percent sure the news is changing everyday, so I'll go with sex for as long as that's what gender theory is right. That's what modern gender studies is, and this goes back to that goes back to Simone De Beauvoir. I want you to have sex it's because you're John Money, Judith Butler, and by the way, these people who believe that gender was a social construct. They still believe that people could maybe be.
man or woman within the societal contract, but was always within a binary, are only talking about the ninety nine. These will not change this idea that there could be many different genders, but even on this camp, but right now in your gender studies classes, they teach that gender is societal, social construction sectors by a lot that is the current directive,
I want to make sure that we're clear history and I think that what you are saying is is consistent. So I ask you to appreciate that consistency is either in sports. Rain
there's not a lot. There's a lot happening is one thing: you do it in a few years:
like to see just
It's based on gender or sex or anything it's just. This is basketball. We all play. You know what I mean. I know you might think. I'm crazy, but I mean ended women's sports grammar. No, no, exactly not! The issue is not in the biological differences in male women wouldn't be able to compete ever they would just lose at every sport, with the exception of shooting sports. I think there should be I'm not a professional. Obviously, I'm not well versed in this field. I'm not I'm only in a few sports either way this this sports issue. I feel like it's just a topic to grab on to that are happening right. This second wouldn't be happening a few years. Maybe it will trigger something in a few years. How would we figure it out? Discussion are exactly the discussion you just want. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, your record for long. I just heard you say that everyone playing together sure this wasn't ok, so that's what
I think we should move to a new understanding. That is an option. Female athletes think that male and female are equal. I know there are biological differences and strengthen that kind of thing, but that's what sports are about. I understand that, but the sports aren't always going to be. You know the rules change every day. That kind of thing the Nbs rules are not the same as ten years ago. Twenty years ago, there's new rules at every point in time I feel like we would be able to figure something else out. It wouldn't just be one issue changing. At the same time, we would combine the sports. There would also be new legislation inside of the word work inside of that or any sports category to try and make it so that women could compete. How would you, for example, let's take the NFL, let's take
I dunno. If there is women's contact football, there is, let's say well, you know. Let me take an example and not to be anecdotal, but I'm taking a sample that has actually taken place, because there haven't been that many intersex sporting, not just throw it, does
waste pray regularly in its non contacts were soccer, so the women's actual soccer champions. Have you seen us? Yes, like that women's rights are national soccer shape into like a women's World CUP winners will went regularly, play high school boys and lose so what rule sets do you think you could, rather than just going with right, but we have, which is male and female sports for the safety and fairness of the players right is to protect the players and to protect that's redundant. I just meant well, ok. What would we change as far as rules that would somehow offer women who have not only less right, not only less muscle mass, not only higher bodies that not only lower boned Anthony, not only eighty percent lower connective tissue strength, not only lower long, less lung capacity, not only lower veto to max not only less lower red blood cell counts, not dimension, general high dimensions. What rule changes do you think I could possibly be implemented? For example, in soccer wrestling basketball football swimming
that would allow an even playing field for biological limit. I feel like they are trying to bombard me with all these topics, but I also know that men no significant do we disagree that biological males have significant athletic advantage over biological females as a general biological. Male and female are separate or different, but that doesn't change with time that could be medical advancements to change how the male and female bodies were other change. How the world says, I'm not one to say that now, they're called steroids, that's a little different. No it absolutely that's exactly what what biological females who are claiming to be men, that's exactly what they're claiming the ones that are taking steroids right, yeah they take hormones as well as steroids. Anabolic steroids are legal. Currently, I'm trying to make a point in time. They should all be illegal. Maybe again, everyone is on steroids, very young, because cancer. Yet I'm saying I'm not saying the current steroids, I think
this could all happen. Ok, but work today, twenty twenty two, it's not probably just send someone who was a biological male who was a middling to low end male swimmer, who just won first place, would just beat out a silver medal, it very hard to get a silver medal, vs a female silver medalist, with a time that wouldn't even rank top five hundred against them. At the point,
I understand completely
It would not apply in the future a future that certainly applies today. So what do we do today can't do anything today would release can so that when we agree, then today that we need to continue with ensuring the safety and fairness for players are strictly for female athletic opportunities. Female power in states like California, the obsessing with marijuana use in different areas in the state government, is governing that relevant federal. The federal government is letting it as a test, run sports right now, it's kind of just the test: retweet we no there's no offense to any athletes whatsoever, but everyone's trying their best we always have, but I feel that we've got gotta have some test runs to figure this stuff out. We can't just argue that right now, I I understand what you're saying, and I appreciate your idea representing the idea of federalism into sports. I actually that's not lost on me. That being said, we have the
you're, a kilometer ensue evidence I got is presented as far as the difference in physiology that doesn't change. Maybe many years from now it'll change these students and doing things by his wife was a renders he took his wallet when it was giving your that cash. It takes all six a wallet and those even give enough gas wanted to go home. So she now knowing what we know about gas prices. They want even becoming the jets in future. I digress luminescence. I do tell them I just don't you ok! Well, I think this is Jetson at the very least she's pushing the envelope there. I think that's that
robot demanded that robot made solely as a future events the future ass in the future. We have no idea what's going to happen, but we have no idea what we know what's happening so there's a miracle that which is always Evan says that obviously the male athlete benefits from violence.
Undeniable and then there's
where we have Leah Thomas, but that's not the only example. You have men who then switch biological males who then switch to females who set records and cycling who one track right, one that can track its. For example, let's say it's one percent of the population who might be one to one point, six percent of the athletic student body that are trans, but they will, in certain sports, dominate sixty six percent of the top spots. Ninety percent and power we are married. Gregory was a power lifter set these all time records for women
there's cycling. There's
and swimming like we've just discussed, there's there's power lifting there is Olympic Weightlifting Laurel Hubbard, who made it who won these these metals until Laurel Hubbard merits the Olympics and then due to an injury, had to pull out and also was forty three, which is not typical of Olympians. There have been over eighty opportunity, meaning scholarships in international rankings that had been yanked out from under women today because of this new experiment. We know that when you allow the biological male to compete against biological women, that it's an unfair playing field today- and it's not even close- there are obvious biological difference. I understand what you're saying, but I feel as if these whether transit is currently okay. I think you would agree, but it isn't hundred days it's actually. What do we do today? I can't say I dunno: what is the right thing to do? The right thing to do the right thing to do today with male and female sport. I think I'll get the right thing to do is obviously
no matter. What you're going to annoy some topic? I think I think the first part has come now. I think you know somebody but anything as complicated as far as the right thing to do. Would you say that coming to an agreement is always a hundred percent one direction?
What do you mean coming to an agreement like I say a watching,
They are usually one way some he's going to be mad either way.
In this way we have to tread lightly to figure out what would be capitulate to less than one percent of the population at the expense of fifty percent of the population less than one to fifty less than one percent in transgender individuals, by switching up the way that we've done sports again, which exists. I can't confirm this statistic with the highest number of ever heard is one point: six percent of the population is trans number. Let's call it wrong, let's call one or two percent: that's unfair. I have no idea the statistics and I'll give you a wanted to spread and some numbers even lower than that. So I'm trying to pick the number that I think is most generous. One point something percent, but fifty percent of the population are female and one hundred percent at least up until recently, a female, the other competitors were biological females sort of capitulate. Here when we're trying to not offend one point, something percent of the population, we are on the floor.
finally shortchanging fifty percent.
women who want to compete, who there listen. This affects their lives right scholarship, getting a scholarship, getting an olympic metal getting a coaching. These things have serious ramifications right of sport as a great way for people
particularly those of lower socioeconomic status, it equalizes the playing field and now we're making that unfair, because a certain very small percentage might be offended. This specific issue would be best taught by a female athlete or just a female altogether. I'm a white male. I have my input. Your is not as valuable as a female or female altogether, no matter, if Trans I actually agree with you, I actually don't agree with you in that you can't have an opinion. I think your in your opinion, depending so I just thought that was acceptable, because it also hits warm the only warm thing Iraq everywhere, he goes usually base fighter or fertile were just around Texas, general area. I keep ghost like and by the way that dog is as cute as cute as a button is very distracting to me right now,
what we talking about this before a dog was just the problem with to have the strategy to ride my line of vision, the marginal differences and then comparing that the damn puppy ruined it for the rest of you said that you were a white male. I think that if your opinion is founded on sound research and data, it's based, in fact it doesn't matter if you're a white male, it doesn't matter if you're, a black male doesn't matter if you're, a black female white Trans, I think there's a correct opinion at the end of the day and there's there's correct information and there's incorrect information and that sometimes you make an inference based on now. I do agree with you. However. Women in many cases, particularly feminists, have said no vagina, no opinion, and so they have marginalized the opinions.
of men on this issue, which which is
to me because there's kind, there's a pretty big spread, if you actually
but the polling- and I usually dont like the point of all, except in this area, we are pulling female athletes like their opinions, obviously matter. So, if you
men generally speaking, if we could pull after when they ask men, should biological
we'll have to competing women sports men overwhelmingly saying now, which is
interesting, because we don't really have a dog in that fight. No biological female has come over and dominated the men's sports that doesn't happen. It's never happened, but overwhelmingly non female athletes have supported it, saying short because women,
Empathetic people are understanding people great quality of women. Some
I feel, like I'm a very loving person, sure I think you are, but I think, as a general rule, women are more conscientious than most men.
I see what you mean, but I don't agree. I think, if you look at the polling, you know men are more pragmatic in the sense that you're like well. No, that's not fair men shouldn't be able to compete against women, so they oppose. Then you look at women who are not female athletes. They support it. Then you look at the polling of female athletes they're against it, because most of the feminists who say biological men should be allowed to compete in women's sports. Don't have a dog in that fight. All of a sudden when you pull the female athletes, it's very different
I could see what you mean, but at the same time my point is
I am not
and you're, not a woman. I don't think at least I'm assuming you did assume and your license correct.
If we don't wake up every day as a female, we don't go through our lives and tackle these kind of things, horrendous things, I'm sure you have a wife or girlfriend for you here. You know it's not easy and my life's not that bad like. I can't complain
and there's there's not a lot of things that I have to deal with, because I was born this way. There's there
it's interesting, saying
that's interesting. Purple truck makes you a,
interest either is apparent color another without your parents wrong that the point in trying to make I get my for driving.
So in my little country towns, I'm profound because that vehicles certain-
it's driven mostly by a certain type of people who camps either way I get pulled over and are you saying that you get profile because I think it's a black guy or because I think it's a gay guy? No, definitely not
even if the debate on
on my ticket
don't they pull up the manor, they already right the ticket out that my race incorrect every every ticket I received
so either way. El Camino
Lynch thing, but what matters now is that I wouldn't think I wouldn't, because I wouldn't think purple truck hispanic uniform vegetarians. I assume you are we talking like foreign like Joker Purple, it's something I struck me ass. You do it
Why don't you want to say is I can if I can make a metaphor, someone my problem, truck was borne out is born in a factory, but
I guess I was not complaining whatsoever. I do not mind, but I haven't without trying right so do you.
in comparison to a female living in this world, you know I can't
for sure, but you know I've had girlfriends like it's not easy, and even more so for someone who is trans or someone who is annoying or someone. I was with you up until that last point yeah. I agree. I agree with you that it's not easy and I don't think we should make it harder on women by allowing biological. I feel that people should be equal. People can be empathetic
no matter their their sex, but people can be whoever they want to be, and I think that the current times are are going to change
yeah people can be whoever they want to be or whatever they want to be of the, and there are biological and physiological limitations to everybody. You know there's ethical differences
things like murder, you know their biological. There are biological realities. Their physical reality is, for example, your client is your height you're bound to be as your bone density did a certain stage. You get a surgery to change your high return when extreme exceptions to the rule of a general there are still and by the way that has still not
creating a world in which you weren't, designed with biological imitations, I understand what you're saying you've minutes managed to you
surgical, moderately, modern, surgical, medical advancements too. Maybe change your not the same thing as claiming you weren't born a certain. That's.
the differences you weren't
exactly that way. But maybe people are born blonde. Maybe we're not talking about blonde haired guys competing against, but it's not a. I would say it's not a valid comparison. When we're discussing, I think look. I think I appreciate what you're what you're saying, and I do think that you're right that there are going to be as a matter of fact, I've talked about this if you can live probably another thirty forty years,
as part of a generation that can live significantly longer or probably never much longer the one hundred and sixty years, but live healthily until your later age. I mean even right now we're seeing with like hormone replacement therapy as you get older and as a matter of fact, that's a big problem when it's also a problem with transgender hormone replacement therapy, because we know the cancer genetic, it is no, it's not debatable. We know that if you inject estrogen or you provide astral access estrogen to the male endocrine system, that is not good. As a matter of fact, I've seen what the first thing is, if you're a woman with high estrogen levels and if you're a woman, you have breast cancer, the first time they put you on
I just really enjoy that. I know everyone makes this point, but you do come to college campuses. You know I'm
pursuing my education when we do this. We we also do this not on college campuses. I am saying, but the ones that are popular reason you keep coming back.
So we should do this as many on street corners
So what do we do today in two thousand? Twenty two with male and female spikes and I'll say I'm not a female, I'm, not transgender and in these sports? Okay, but let's say overwhelming majority of females, say it's not fair, then transgenders. This is where we are biological men, biological males who say that they are the woman. Gender say why?
I compete with biological females, the biological,
I say, no, it's not what do we do
you know these these type of wars and things, but aren't you need to be rule? There are, of course it s me
So what's the solution, I can't say
I understand that we live in a world where that's the case there doesn't we do have to have this current world is is is,
testing ground for tomorrow, everything we do today. This is going to affect how we do so. What do we do today?
So I will just say I'll: hang my malls out there and its very cold outside. So there are going to be tiny resonance. We do it that way when we ve always done it and we do it in accordance with what most logical female athletes want. Biological males, regardless of how you identify, compete with biological males biological females, compete with biological think
I understand exactly what you're saying and your point directly they compared to going to soccer you, no males at the time of women Soccer wanted. You know
I wanted to be the way it was
I truly didn't know that, actually it was a majority of women. Didn't want the right to vote. Did you know I can't compare cities? Let me explain to you why x is very interesting. I had a lady named Karen from the show, and this is kind of refreshing Karen strong now I know her name is Karen fronts and she is she's a feminist and the reason for this was well first off women's suffrage, right you're, talking about women, getting the right to vote, how that happened,
of course, the voice of women at the height of the women get the right to vote. The voices
okay. How are they hurt? You know I can answer this question just trying to
No! No! I'm really men were the exclusive right holders to voting right.
women, when I learned about right
and women were allowed to vote. So there was a change to change it. Changes made changes made by men, women didn't have a say in the vote if they could vote. My point is now my point is this is a misrepresentation, misrepresentation that the emails were? No. My point here is this is a misrepresentation and I think it matters because if you don't understand history, fully you're doomed to repeat it and wreck, the majority of men said males who use the term males because back then, of course, they wouldn't even have a chip on their brain for modern gender theory, but as men voted to give women the right to vote, the reason that a majority of women didn't want the right to vote a lotta people don't understand this. Historically, no I'm not saying that women shouldn't have the right to vote just to be clear. I'm just explaining the historical context. Voting came with certain responsibilities like the draft like owning property, like paying taxes like bucket duty, which is mandatory, voluntary, firefighter series and women's at all. If that's what we have to do to vote, we don't want to. Then men had the vote for them to vote this way. You don't have to do any of that stuff. Only the men did so a lot of loners and that that's a big reason why. I think that, obviously it changed over time. There was a testing period which I didn't say we ran out and it changed everytime to benefit what I would say the majority of my business become normalized. Now I mean how can you say it didn't benefit us
I think women script, the vote sometimes interesting. I don't agree with you, that's okay! In retrograde. I certainly think women should have the right to vote what
I think that since embed votes- and I think we ve seen some buyers remorse from women voting them boating where they like. Now, you know what this elective talk about. Women who thought well, it's ok for the transit issue and I think that we can have them computing and our sports. It's like! Well, look behind you there's a slippery slope. However, I do think it's one thing to say that this is the beauty of college is you're dealing in a sort of nebulous right like well this, so maybe tomorrow there does need to be a solution today and if you're talking about something that involves a biological deference, physiological differences which can cause actual harm, not to mention even removing opportunities from biological females, you stick with them.
If you want,
in the third division. Let that be the experimental drug, not not at the cost of women's opportunities. That's why title nine exists. I believe there shouldn't be any discrimination, no matter who the person
so you consider a biological male. If the sporting organization governing body says you have to compete with biological males or in a third division
Inter Gender division, but not with biological?
Now you see that as a simulation. Ok, so you're solution is to my mind, so you did a solution so that biological males compete with women. I think
compare your points where you'd seen in the West Segregation, yes or any there's different baseball link for both of our nation.
yeah, of course, that's discrimination by definition and then all of a sudden when the? U s- I can say this because Vice President Joe Biden said at the United Negro League once a mixed guess: what there aren't too many great white baseball players. I believe there are some, but the point is it's the point. Is they wanted to keep them out, because we knew that there was some black speed and power. My friend, I believe, really that black people are better athletes than white people in certain sports. I think to really have you watch them Diego,
Is it racist to say that the majority of Indians
Is it racist for me to say that black people are typically better at basketball than the average white person?
definition its racist, but I dont think that you would find a single black person here disagrees, that's wrong point,
We obviously do not want to say what you just said
racist, so you did speak and I haven't libraries to say that black people are they.
I think, I'm a higher percentage of the MBA than white people to say that they're, that's not what he said in general.
Your? What did you expect? Let me give you a different one. In general, black people, black males at the elite level, are faster than white male, racists that check of the land speed records. I dunno look at the terms you're not going to find a Whittaker, an Irish last name
you going to grieve the world records
at the elite level, black males tend to run faster times and white males. That's not what you said at the elite level, black males are faster than white males. That's that's not! That is what I said in this past point, but earlier your statement was thicker.
That black people, ten
You are more successful in athletics than white people. Yes, I'm not saying statistics are racist. I'm saying your statement regarding black people is based on statistics that doesn't matter and certainly not certainly not inferring, that they're inferior. That's maybe what you are
the land speed record that all the one hundred meter dash records are held by black people and not white people that that's racist. How is that they're inferior state statistics? Aren't racist, okay, I'm saying okay. So how do I address the statistic that all land speed records? Santa right? You don't have to get pairs, but that is what I said. You still said it was racist
if so, how do I say all of the top land speed records on on two feet at the elite level are held exclusively by black males. Exactly so, that's not racist, but it's racist for me to say that, as a general rule in the elite category, when you're looking at the elite of the elite runners, black males are faster than white males. That's another thing is that how did I stated that earlier statement was you're describing obviously with a little bit of racial motif in the papers? I don't understand. What do you mean racial motif in the bathroom you're, trying to say that there's some kind of an undertone? That's racist black person, a white person right there, don't need to be clarifications on the differences to what I was addressing a specific instance of athletic capability. You were and then you went off on that little attention and then came back to it. I never addressed
does between black and white people outside about letting you didn't contacted. You said
characteristics of black people Cal oaks being faster.
more awful. I can generally what characteristics, and I guess I can't repeating
because they didn't they were never sent. They were saying well, the good thing is we have a look. What did I say? I don't understand what I'm trying. I can't say I remember saying: black people are more athletic, faster speed and power. Donald baseball. Are you talking about United Negro League? No, no! No, that's! Obviously, okay, so I I can't possibly
it's not in the word itself, but the way you stated it is racist. Ok, so it's not the word it's the way. I stated it that in general, the elite black athletes are faster than the elite white athletes.
Well, you believe that you believe that's racist, that's fine! We just disagree on that and I don't care. I don't see that as something that most black people would disagree with, but we can ask we can find some divisive figure and I think that I think one thing that I will say as first off. I appreciate you sitting down aside from the accusation of racism or saying that the statement was made in a way that you believe was racist. Aside from that, I think he's kept that remarkably civil,
but I will say I dont things has been very productive. I don't believe so. Innovation is because you live especially college campuses. You are afforded the luxury of not having to offer solutions in the real world and there aren't there that's the case, because you don't deal with these consequences. We are pursuing its patient, you're, obviously taken aback by something else,
Well, I think that's actually a discriminatory thing to say how do you say what about
when we decided not to go to university college, when someone is creating a business somebody's learning, a trade are pursuing an education though they are pretty.
In writing, but they dont get the deal simply in the philosophical right they have to answer pragmatically. Like way. Oh, I think, there's a bottom line to this profit. Wait a second my doing this directly or not. You are for it a lot.
Korea being able to express ideas without bringing them to their endpoint solution? So that's a big purpose to change my mind, ideas. If you're going to change my mind right and says
but in a thing, is an important point to study.
I security engineer
Was this through during this fall, I'm used to objects. I think
What are you studying? Cyber security engineering, so that's a field where really quickly you're going to find out once you go into the workforce.
you're going to bad about your job. Get not debatable.
We fought irrational buyers, have some ok right if you're governance-
If you're, not good, you'll be fine.
as its eighty there weren't do their catch a miniature either get them secure. You didn't that's not like the ones.
Employer. I can tell you: it is pretty black and white jobs are performance based
not so much in the realm of entire Augustine their situation. Maybe it was very happy, I'm saying there's other.
I didn't say it would be up to me, and I mean I think, you're doing the word salad thing, which I know is very fun to do in universities and colleges.
Well, you're saying I wouldn't be up to you. I never said it was up to me, but I was saying: is that there's going to be them and as a boss, he was right.
well determine if your job is good or bad. You had a bad day, maybe find somebody that is not up to the person.
The important thing
we're through objective for amateur set if you're getting your job, whereas at those really apply here right,
Colleagues, Rennie Systems. Ok,
But if I were a professor,
and I was reading you on solutions provided you'd have to get a zero percent. You can be biased,
and I'm sure I could be biased. I would argue that you haven't presented any solutions just because you've said you don't have them. I do not want and order ticket because you're a white male. I believe, that's not why you don't have any solutions. My friend don't hide behind behind behind the white male thing.
It's to say that you're, a white male. Therefore, you don't have solutions. You can still present what I'm saying you have a dog in the fight enter the arena, especially if, especially if you are going to change someone's mind, especially if you're going to convince someone to your point of view, you do need to offer.
kind of want quantifiable solution and that's how the world works now works now done that, and I know you,
necessarily know that you fully agree or disagree. I just know that you don't really know what it is that you think should be done, and I think that that's I agree. I think that's honestly, representative of Nevada,
there is one according to people in the real world them over compliment is also a source of damage
I don't think that saying biological men, biological male compete with biological males and biological females compete with again. Likewise,
I don't have the problem of over confidence. If so, then, now my young doctors and academia alleges that is a legitimate biologists are cocky is so, but
and I do appreciate you sitting on Jackie Jackson- see my
Jackson really highlights the problem of universities and how the obvious of objective truth
really absolve students of providing concrete answers to real issues in the real world, as Jackson isn't a bad kid, and I do appreciate him sitting down with me. But the lack of argument for ability to even articulate an objective position is exactly where institutions, like: U N T, have failed students in the first place that U N, Tino less the Harvard of Denton County. Now, if you want to see more of the smash, the like button and comment below which topic you'd most like to see covered next, and if you think this video has helped, you understand this topic better, please consider sharing it and subscribe
they are turning in Timor,
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Transcript generated on 2022-04-12.