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Thanksgiving Isn't Racist Change My Mind | Louder with Crowder

2019-11-29 | 🔗
Steven Crowder visits a college campus to have real conversations with everyday people. In this installment, he addresses the increasingly popular idea that Thanksgiving is a racist holiday.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erasing summons experience in reaffirming it in recent experience, but by by saying it isn't racists, you are erasing someone's. Yes, you are inherent in current why southern dimension of racism, the definition of a definition, racism is believing that somebody is inferior solely. Based on their race. That's prejudice. Racism is institutionalized discrimination. Yesterday, yes, it is yes, it is time for the latest instalment of change. My mind where we rationalize our positions on controversial subjects for this instalment. We decided to take on the rapidly growing notion that Thanksgiving is array just holiday, possessed her racist asserted thanksgiving. It's a genocide on holiday, Thanksgiving wise. So we have to beauty asked industry would be willing to step up, sit down and change my mind. First up Meet Elizabeth Origin and Elizabeth Stephen nice to meet you.
The only other suffer every city haven't seen the show, not its baseless, that, if it's not meant to be a debate, is meant to be in relation to rationalize our positions on controversial topics are granted to the controversial topic. I am sure that you ve heard there's been a man has been a lot of of noise about actually removing thanksgiving from being recognise the national holiday, because people believe it it's a racist, holiday or steeped rooted in racism colonialism. I don't agree I don't think it's a racist holiday, I think, is possibly the most inclusive holiday that we have in the United States and its wonderful holiday May God will do me good God bless it happening scheming to you before we, How do you change my mind? What you must think, I'm think, but I get to go home next week, three months are those things to go home and leave here. My only just started within a week I'll, try to deceive, I haven't been holding out not to be nice a kind of last winter and the need to combat yeah exactly even though sometimes here to pull them
ok. So you are more than welcome to express me what it is yours and changed my mind, sir. So I think that there is a difference between the origins of Thanksgiving on the origins of the country and the thanksgiving that we celebrate now. So what I was overhearing was conquered here, but if you believe there's there's a lot of things to be thankful for me, you know being able to have this country when many people are on, unfortunately, live in countries that have terrorism and where women are obliged to have specific rights or where specific groups are terrorized, and so obviously I am very thankful to have in this country, because we have so many rights and we have some freedoms, but I think that, there is a difference between recognising the foundations of how Thanksgiving started and being able to say. I am thankful that we live here, however, are origins in many ways very based on european and white supremacy and based on the ideas that
We came to you to what was, I guess, the new world now as the modern, United States and we base the police, said, and not necessarily on the day of Thanksgiving. This is not our intentions, but because the Dave thing giving in many ways for a lot of people was going to be saying what we were able to break bread with the Indians and where we are in the native Americans and were able to say listen. I your talk. The last guy said Indian is now so saying native Americans. I share the access, not that's, obviously pretty controversial term
whatever it was. Some native Americans are further themselves with Indian, so it's kind of neutrality, so that's kind of one of those things I'm just gonna use or terminate American, just as I don't want to be sure yeah, but we are able to have this peaceful dinner with them and basically say. Listen. We're here, you guys are here, will be here together peacefully. But after that, that's not really what happened in the United States. I mean when you think, about the mexican annexation and when you think about the in the native Americans, who lived here and were pushed back in Mexico, and you think about the the Alamo in San Antonio, that's a big thing, even at the Alamo stay play some kind of video. That basically says you know the use of with their these noble Texans and in reality, the Mexicans at the time who lived in Mexican. What was Mexico and is now texas- and you know the bottom part of the United States- they let the Texans they let Americans coming live in the United States view darted index. Oh sorry,
the thorough scaling, my words, but they were the ones who are letting people come and live here, and they were saying, listen, we're not giving me. People were actually here, because we actually want you to come here, because I do not want the imperial the imperial family in the Morse southern parts of Mexico wanted to make sure that other other countries didn't come and take away the old, the northern parts of Mexico, and that's why they ask people from the colonies to come and live in in the northern part of Mexico. But what happening as these seated for Mexico, and basically, we immediately started acting with terror. You know the Texas Rangers who were incredibly racist and killed and hung Mexicans. We have a lot of debate. We have you, no Christopher Columbus, that some that's. They're, pretty controversial, Columbus saves a brake on the union's pupils. Exactly so you shouldn't do native american indigenous peoples exactly seven. First nations you're, never gonna get it right. Well,
I'll try, but I do understand yeah. So there's a lot of controversy over Columbus and that's because when Columbus came here, I'm you know. First of all, he thought that this is where we get this firm Indians from because he thought he had reached. India he'd obviously heed their interests not, but he treated the people with this error of european supremacy because he immediately went and rapes women here you know killed people, and it was all this very big terror. That obviously I mean this is different from the pilgrims who are you. Are you hurt just a bad, but it basically shows that a lot of these countries founding is based on an even if you'd. If you, separate the pilgrims from Christopher Columbus. It still based on the idea that we thought that we were able to go and conquer lands and say listen. We know that you live here, and even if we're gonna, give you stuff is that we think that we have the right to take over somebody else's land and that we have the right,
a lot of what we ve done over the years when it came to you that you know that the post World war, two and with communism, is that we decided that it was necessary to go and see if other countries from potential from communism, and so what that led to that, and I kind of I've topic, but I kind of all think of it, I don't want you speak out. I want you to feel form interrupting yeah, no not at all sure that Turkey does not covering the camera joint, where the thirty I will end of life and that there would be no. It does not new from dollar I'm gonna. Thank you, what we did with communism We are going to especially these countries like one and we are going in and we are giving them weapons and we are giving them training on how to fight radicals, who were pro communism and at the time of year, what about communism and also gave em Stds you now? I did not know that
but I am glad that I can add that understanding, tossing and all of the white american guilt, because then the generally with you know like there are in this a greater glad. I get to keep that in mind that no its knowledge stage or not, you know I'm not a conspiracy theories, but that is one thing that I think that we couldn't publicly apologise for that we knowingly infected. I believe it was a blue Guatemalans with STD yeah and Guatemala, I've actually, which is horrible raw hell. It's what action on very clear now that we are still not understood, Harriet onto it and then also mean I'm sure afterwards, you'll be horrible funded by, but I want you to continue. I don't think you're right would be happy if you're gonna teach people, so I bet I definitely think I've been divided monarchy times and I definitely think that
I'm with a lot of the United States has done? Is we've taken our roots of pro? You know, european supremacy, not supremacy, will supremacy whites in terms of white supremacy, obviously where we are coming from, was primarily white or spanish, which can be considered more in the white side of its they're on the way of Europe. So I just think that a lot of our research based on weight, supremacy and that modern day Thanksgiving, which is the thanksgiving that you seem to be very adamant about. Is that yes, we're very ex that we should be very thankful for the people that we have around. That's actually not producers So the answer is: yes, after all, I know is I want to make sure that I'm not interrupting you but know. What I was saying was specifically Thanksgiving is a specific day. You're talkin about sixteen twenty one gets a week was a week of feasting sack in sixteen twenty one, and then it became a federally recognise holiday by Abraham, Lincoln in really those eighteen sixty three after this civil war and as the deputy manned space
proclamation, and he said you know what we need up holiday to unify. Americans black White South confetti looks better see the union. Let's look back to this account that we have in history in one thousand six hundred and twenty one where the early pilgrims what they want to know. I want, but I always get the name wrong guy. That's that's lacking the other family that wasn't closing the tribes that they came to when they came to an and villages, have been left by the French at that point was a danger, seen twenty one where they feasted wisdom. So it's a specific time. That's recognizes a holiday for them. Giving because it was precisely about the old world and new world, bridging that divide and breaking bread together, and that was also symbolic. What happened after the emancipation proclamation? The country was at war, that's why it's designed to be as inclusive as possible any religion, race, gender. The whole point us thanks giving us to give thanks for what it is that you do have and its import. Remember too, that there were fifty years of peace after that. Yet sixteen twenty one so very very long time so What I am saying is that Thanksgiving,
We also all depends on what you think things give you know doesn't depend resourceful documentation. This is why we celebrate thanksgivings. I was this feast, fifty years of peace, afterward, that's a wonderful thing, not racist at all. Now, if people then want to talk about when you went through a whole list of me when all the way down to Texas Rangers gap, Kosovo using Walker. Texas Rangers, like Chuck Norris, has nothing to do with the early pilgrims but going all the way through the innocent? When I see a lot of people doing you did it to more extreme apple, going on the Roma, but people say well because afterward there were a born acts committed. Therefore, that taints Thanksgiving and what I am saying is now a thing, Giving is not exclusively anyway actually designed to be inclusive by its inclusive by design, and that sets a precedent which you would have to apply to every single holiday for Christmas. Two
pass over to two Roma non anyhow it because it gets it will after Christmas there's a decrease of ideas are there's a spanish inquisition. You could go through the atrocities that obviously in Jews, are not blameless either and, of course they ve been. The victim of this happened throughout society, where people are sometimes sometimes isn't it. Sometimes the hammer. For some reason, though, there is a disproportionate focus on kind of what you brought up white european blurs who came here as though they are singularly unique or responsible for these acts of evil, and it comes up around the time of thanks giving and I don't think it could be less appropriate or less productive. I think it's divisive and I think it actually fractures us as opposed to celebrate, taking part of celebration that should encourage unity. So the only thing they I see any anyway you're saying by these fifty. He's the fifty years of peace and unity, Facebook and then you also spoke about the Emancipation proclamation worth getting rid of slavery
however, just because a governor of slavery didn't mean died african Americans in this country. You were you know they still went through. So why not? I'm not saying at all with barely one is going. What would it be if both the idea that you're saying that what we all want to consumers and capitalist cause? That's when it was federally recognise how yes so, but what I'm trying to say is that thinks giving? I guess you're kind of sense. No, no, I'm gonna be very clear. Do do we both agree that that is why we celebrate ice giving yes, I just now comes in aboriginal are indigenous dispassionately through very specific reason. Why we pick that day in sixteen twenty one, and then it goes to a teen. Sixty three were they ran like in declaring an unofficial how it's just because a lot of you lingers wriggle room, there's no wiggle room as to why we celebrate Thanksgiving yeah. Now, if you want to say we should celebrate it because of an go down the list of grievances afterward, you can do that. And I'm gonna wanna talk to you about that, but I dont think that that's fair, too
turn feather a celebration because we choose what we celebrate. Will I dont think that we should celebrate, thinks and that's an using force, because I think there are so many things that we can. We have to be thankful for by think that there is a separation now sure between dear general reason verse for celebrating its and why we celebrated now more people. I think, when you think so, of sobering things even now is more like, for my mom and for my dad you know him all my I was sort of family matters exactly and so are full house or something like that. You know and that's why I'm on how this conversation, because I'm amazed at how many students who have no idea of the actual history of thanksgiving, yet I think it is important for them to know, because I also think that if we understand its harder to lead, demonstrate with lies of mass yeah. Well I mean that's genocide. Is it complete,
pick that origin seriously really unique evils of colonialism. We can go on down the trail after I mean I'm sure with thanks talking. I can be that way. You will start with thanks giving assuming we agree on that, thanks giving it a good thing. If so, I think that there are two, but there are still two different topics that think it's ok to go and say. I am thankful for this time. Think that we have to recognise what this country has been built on the backs of who this has been built, you know and the actual entire history, rather than just thinking about this one day, criteria, but that, but my point is this- is one day but that one day you can go to any history classroom right now we have had several too. I would think that you'd probably admit this almost
always taught every student about so far ass. It I've been taught basically about the genocide in the evils of the settlers. None of them were aware of the evil and barbarism that the natives committed against each other. That any now happen tat about that actually in school. I happened that that's it. That's also its intellectual fallacy to say, though, will because this happen afterwards and applied thanks. So I want to make sure that we both agree Thanksgiving great day to sell right, good and then separate from that we can get in what you disagree with on the founding of the country, but that doesn't apply to the celebration. Thank you. Not see that the first thing that the foundations of this country and then thinking about c, I feel like you're trying to separate the two days, but then the fifth day and the actual foundation of the country, and they should be separate, because we have to think about the fact that they there was a time before thanks giving when you know when we first first so when we started yes, we are not direct
associate with the whole crowd inside Cathay we'd have fairly, but I do not want a through me. Yes, I no pilgrim and your background. Nothing. I'm ok, foolish jail cell cats. Friendship for, Frances you're on many left, I'm supposed choose, it was so as an unfortunate time for ass. That's terrible that yeah. I would definitely think that- and this is just my opinion- obviously swear just stopping opinion throughout. I think that there has to be an association between the two just because, if you don't think about everything that has happened in the past, what you want, can't you be. Why can I be thankful that were no longer committing these so long as you're jewish. I am too, when you celebrate how'd, you saw me pass. It's not necessary thing is the jewish holidays. A lot of them are necessarily celebrations their reminders of the past?
and so I did so. I think that thanks giving in some ways should be like that pass over would remind you of what I think that all the atrocities the Jews have gone through. In the past I mean every especially like Yom Kippur is one where we think about how we didn't have. We have time to get out of the less. I do not want to somebody somewhere birthing Audrey here with none of us would say that, shortly Jews are blameless in certain complex right I mean I can't get into I would I wouldn't I'm not your home is that your holidays do also have a day of mourning over the atrocities of Jews of committed Personally, I know, but I also don't think that I'm educated enough on those topics in order to have like the actual conversation about that differ, but not yet well. My point is its applying
same standard jewish holidays and I think by the Web- support Israel's right to exist. I certainly support them in the face of Hamas and Hezbollah on the six day war. I'm far more conservative, that's what people think I'm jewish and call me working for jewish ills, but I certainly wouldn't say that any group of people are blameless, but the point you're saying we need to celebrate this american holiday and recognise the fatal flaws in the United States. Didn't sound a meal you're lying at jewish holidays. Well, I I think that that's definitely something is why don't? I also don't know. I wouldn't saying you enough about how to change the juices them If I, if I could, I would definitely try and implement suddenly like that, but I think there is also something to be said about limiting your suggestions on how we pointed to the american system, I just want to point out: yeah she's holiday to celebrate, and people should never going to their had to say you can only celebrate press over Jaso go relevant affair and whenever I definitely I dont think that there should be a definite sail in regard to how people celebrate
holidays. I mean there are people who don't celebrate birthdays and things like that you're, not blameless on here. Of course, the debate like oh well, you committed mass murderers. I guess you can remember now this year I was a prick. That's unfortunate, I train. And here I was not a present for you- you're once about it. Because you mentioned we should also include the sort of day of mourning the sterile recognising the atrocities. I think since being singularly applied to Thanksgiving, I think it's been singularly applied because of what you presented as White Europeans machine which I disagree with. But let me I want you to finish that thought and then we're gonna move? Okay, so basically, I just think that I think it can be applied to her holidays. Obviously, maybe not some lonely Valentine S day and things like that by an orderly. No, the origins of some of these holidays but after that hallmark, might have to pay tax. But I don't know and I dont know enough about the origins of Christianity.
I don't really know that much about the crusades and things like that, so I really can't make too many arguments when it comes to other religions and other holidays that we saw. Which are often religious space over our suggestion on banks giving you can celebrate thanks giving, but no soon. I actually think that what we should do is we should just constantly be mindful of what we have done in the past and so that we, over people's action future during that time. So let me ask you: couldn't you just mentioned? You just went down whole laundry list right of bad things at what Europeans did. Do you also think that we should be very conscious of the. Incomparable barbaric acts of evil to the native Americans, committed against each other in the day
Well, the Mexicans we mention the Aztecs seeing all the assets in the Incas, however, those which are net contributors Indians were per year. The aspects in the minds of what should they not be able to celebrate any national holiday without recognising the horrible evil? Far worse than anything, colonialists did that they did to each other like ripping someone's hard off cannibalized coming from their wives and kids shall, should they not be able to celebrate sinking two mile well, first of all things by adopting enough enough people really know the origins behind thing go to my only they ass sort of national yeah certainly sound and holidays in Africa, even though they were the ones who started this. What we know is the modern slave trade and it still goes on there yet. So I definitely think that obviously can argue that everybody has had too little every that everybody is flawed in some way. However, I think in order to really make some kind of progress in the future. You hush up really it's kind of like Catholics and they talk about their sins long. They go to the priests and lecturers. What I've done,
So I think that there's something noble and actually very progressive and being able to say this is what we have done in the past and now unthinkable thankful that we're here and that we don't that we're not currently living in that situation, and so in the future. We now know that this cannot happen again up a little bit on yourself. You appreciate this controversial, but I dont think that you could argue anyone has done that more than western European Americans. No one has been well being and men and to give more, for example, in other countries right you. If you were to conquer people or commit mass genocide, you subjugate them, you dont give them back land, that's out what happens if we I was native Americans,
You talk about the acts of barbarism. There was no mass genocide, that's just not accurate. They were committing murder and massive numbers. We talk about giving the land back to native Americans, which I dont know if you'd suggested or UNICEF's really support that are with somebody else ring I mean I hadn't thought that have like reparation actually, so when we give it back to enter the marks, because Aristotle you shall are, I believe they are gone on to the votes of the best. As this is death gets very technical. Never my point is no did national days of morning where the marks and though he can to recognising the mass atrocities being committed scalping, we learned from them you're not seeing that from the Mayans. This is why this land was conquered and it wasn't mass genocide by the way it was. Fifty percent of the natives are wiped out. The estimates are about thirty percent of so, let's not really mass genocide. How many gestapo were taken up by June at Auschwitz zero. That's what beside looks like right? This was a war with one side that had horses, I'm sure you know they hadn't domesticated horses. They didn't even use the wheel,
So this was a very regressive society who lived here by the way for thousands of years. Would both agree that thousands of years, let's go sixteen twenty one, two hundred years, we in slavery, so we don't even need an cannibalism and are burning people alive or ripping out their hearts, but we ended slavery. I think that's a good thing, I think port trying to make it seem as though white western Europeans as it was based on some form of racial supremacy, are uniquely responsible for these acts of evil That is what you propose. Enamored. Anyone propose that there should be a day of mourning for native Americans to atone for the crap that they ve pulled or days of mourning for the Jews to atone for what they put our days of mourning for the Palestinians to a tomb for what they pulled. It always seems to be white european settlers. Fact is the United States of America. We didn't commit acts of evil, that's human nature, but we are singularly unique for ending. So many acts of evil in record time hurry you could our
white Americans, we Europeans are in a position of power compared to so many people concerned, especially native Americans, especially you no other. African Americans name any other main engine power now because we won the war while so, but to continue my point, I think that a lot of policy But do you not agree with you just see what I just, but do you not agree that there is that that's a subject that is important. I definitely time I say well what about you know. I don't know about that. That's all Amsterdam single Autograph about that. But you seem to have a laundry list of all your grievances with white european settlers, and you also seem to know a lot about the acts of the act.
People that were committed against them again understand both. We understand that they go both ways. I say against against against Europeans, and certainly natives from NATO. Yes, so more brutal, the native American, I withdrew my only arguments that would just be that you're talking about you, know natives committing atrocities against NATO and that's it there but this was when they were in our own land, this was their land. This is there no learn, civilization, Quanta wasn't their land when they were going and glad hard, and we would like the elderly and over the pollination premium alternately now, ok, so what so? What what separates it is because upon what that is going to someone else's territory, killing raping their women burning them alive, because I wanted to take your stuff. We didn't go and kill them and burnt alive. We went in and we traded, for example, the island of Manhattan, and then they said something there were trust committed, but a lot of the time we bought waned,
and then they will no longer. Second, we all have the same concept. The personal property is Manhattan. Manhattan we purchase for sixty guilders worth now, it's been taught this school. I believe that sixty guilders accounts to twenty five dollars worth of junk. I read this academic, I think it was Uti could have been a university just like that. Don't factoring in this process was written, sixty guilders equip acquainted, twenty five dollars worth of modern junk. Sixty guilders was actually nearly ten thousand animal pelts and lumber and not what's that when, for the island of Manhattan that there were not being can Arcy did not want they live in. What is modern, Brooklyn was purchased. We settled there peacefully. Then they come back and say how we want to back off. This was a lease because of the same kind of the personal property starts and, of course, the settlers win. That is very different, I would say that is far more permissible. Then the mode
can go in and just slaughtering all the mohawks they can find. I think that that is helping them. The only thing is that when you think about it, so these others who came and have obviously been hundred hated it in a different way. They had different values. They d framework, bringing you. I mean, as you said before, we they, the native Americans, outta there. Where'd, they didn't have access, they hand, domesticated many animals or horses and they hadn't validated. Not how not to do you know for thousands of years. That's a good question, but I think a lot of it is based on their religion and a lot of that. They renounce backers, favour speck nature they were set. Respect for nature, I mean I leave me hunted and fished more species to extinction per capita that many people in the history of the world. I don't care at all. I didn't really mean to buy that lack events. I think there is marvellous back toward like the physical nature, I can hear you can learn the stuff in school. Now I was like wait. They fished them
existing where we can still make they didn't, have the we'll wait. They never used horses. Everything I learned was a y yeah. I had to learn about what really happened with these, these turf wars with a lot of the pilgrim wars, and so I think that that is really I mean you. People targeted those we're just like under developed civilization, why this wall and we should honour to be the news that we have just because I know the name of it. I think that no development is kind of. However, you think development should be. I mean some people believe that spiritual development is more important than actual like material development and being able to share some people. Think that is incredibly important to have access to electricity, but other people think that it, you know having it that's really like a basis of what Those values are based on what they believe is method, material damage, human rights, equal rights, yeah right for women. We're very good
I mean Bernard enslaving and raping women and cast an eye values. Yes, but I mean I'm countries better than other cultures. I would not argue that some cultures are better than other cultures. They are clearly different cultures. Different, ok! Well, I wages disagree. I think that the culture that says it can't rape and scowled women is better than the culture that says you can steal women. I would like to say I would like to say that in that table, that's important that that's a different I was thinking more on the idea that cultural value is based on our cultural values. I wouldn't have been using for the conflict wrote. The reason for the conflict is early settlers coming. They go well well, well, well, well! Well! Well, or you don't get too enslave their children and burn these people alive yeah and by the way lets you mentioned the Mexicans, I mean you got on the genome. We can close the doors there were carried out in this. Is it's your question I didn't know, I know, because I wouldn't talk in college surf Barnett We're talking college too, can keep it all came in and they they conquer these people. We're brutal nor barbaric and I wiped them that what you are taught yeah, ok, That's what I was to hear their about five hundred
Do you know how many natives with our lot- tens of thousands do no harm tongues of gold and married- I do know they procured, said gold, by enslaving because they have no regard for human rights whatsoever, and so they enslaved people mutual after raping and beating lemons, doing stealing their women if they were fertile enough, and they would say, ok you have to go and get us gold and your options are get us gold or die. So Cortez came with five hundred conquistadores. You think you can take it. When entirely because you went through Mexico. You went through all that neutrality. Today, you can take over unconquered entirely with five under consideration required is natives, who were so upset because of the barbarism in how mistreated they were. They felt that they were and they knew they were better treated by european settlers who came in. They said we're gonna, take our chances with the guys who have the boom boom. Actually that I talked about the greatly early. I may not think that is realistic. However, this guy went down my wheels, that's true, and so that is, that is a hundred per cent true, and there were the only thing
that a thousand regards aid or culture is better. I say superior We all agree this agree about that, but I mean I see. I see what you're as the only thing that I have to say about that is that removing whooping our hearts children. How can you disagree that that's an inferior culture? I don't I die, I'm sorry look and I respect you said no, but because you spoke but ripping out hearts, I don't believe in sacrifice I thought that was a central value, the culture. How can we not say the culture that says? No? No, no! No! No. We don't rip out hearts to the sun God and we're going to subjugate you so that you dont continue to rip out hearts the sun God. How can you say that one culture is not better than the other? Really I just ever really believed that he played physically our right to go in and see that type of thing. It's just not I mean I'm just not pro doing their to repair the heart. To be honest, if you look Society, I guess that works
born, didn't wanna go unsigned enough tat, my heart thrown down like a Parker lift all. I think that there is that what you're saying level and is a jewish person, especially when you really understand the importance of Jews, I believe, is choosing to hold my with Israel began their rights completely violated for a long time. What do you think would happen if, if right today, the palace to Palestinian, rip the heart out of a jewish Charles sacrificed to mock due to a lot. I dont think that that would necessarily have, of course it wouldn't happen, but I am also saying that this is a mean we're talking about a time that was thousand well not thousands of years ago, but it or every region thousands of years ago, and what are we thousands of years ago with the settlers? To is my point here. My point is: They had thousands of years still ripping out hearts and cannibalize in western Europe thousands of years plumbing and the wheel horses, TAT, one is better.
In my opinion, yeah, you don't think one is better. I it's just that. I don't think that we have the right to go another two other civilizations. Basically, just try and a short might make it. I mean I think, there's something nobody saying sure we can try and make your life easier by. Don't think that we have the right to say just tell other people What they're doing wrong in this is what they believe and this is there it's a religion, and I think that bringing Judaism into it end to is actually is not is not, in my opinion, a very good thing just because I like that, I will, I think, the whole procedure into a too I'm selling. I do that the jewish culture is better than the ripping our hearts culture. I mean. I would also say that I decided I don't really like bringing the Holocaust in two things: like that decided right across into I mean it's been brought in just before, but I definitely think that talking about modern Judaism and then referring to all their religion, the Mayans which, to this day still practice but do not continue with these regrouping out
the rituals- and maybe that's because it was impermissible. Well, maybe that's because its we came, and we said: maybe you should do that anymore and at the same time we should be saying. Instead, you should converge Christianity and said you should convert to our religion because its area. I think that will I will merely was because at that point the reason we have to do. It was because to ensure that people weren't being cannibalized and having their hearts ripped out, the only should it fail. Safe was put across next your initial there, so we know that you know you ve moved on from heart removal territory here. The only thing that I think is that as the fat just start, the process of a similar assembly that still is very prominent. You you, like assimilation, yours MT. I think that's the biggest argument against native merit that genocide against native Americans, because most of them assimilated and most than ITALY, because most wanted to. I would actually think
a lot of them, and I am obviously I didn't live during my times. I really can't make as I'm alone on you, but I wasn't cornel I'll give you that Hungary is here in the sideburns makes me sir, but I definitely would think that fear was a reason, let alone listen weight and that's the reason alot of people sunlight today. Fear of having their parts ripped out are being can live. Another natives, I never is going on with these new guys. You have the funny translucent skin, it's gotta be better than being cannibalized and burned alive. I'm gonna go with you. We give some firewater and let them do it out and then came in and pick up the pieces, and I just think it's important to understand the history of this. I I agree that there are four ample. There were some trades that went on. There were terrible and there were some. Acts of evil that were absolutely committed from. Being colonialist. I want to make it very clear that I am not denying, but in this country nation. You have proof. It is as though they are singularly unique, while equating all cultures holding one culture accountable and what I am saying and the reason that I support
Thanksgiving hours a day, but the concept and am grateful for the settlers is that West european culture and the constitution in American culture a culture of ideas, not people, not enough, no state like we haven't native Americans. I believe, is a wonderful thing. I am very glad that that happened. I'm glad that the Kohen colonialists came here and that they created the kind of country that we all get to live and now I'm, It was, and I think they are singularly unique and responsible for ending acts of Barbarism and evil across the world at the native Americans continued and were continued incontinence, typical many places to this day, I don't think you can call them accountable as being the only people who need to mourn their acts of evil. I think instead they should be praised and held accountable for the fact they singularly unique and stopping a lot about the rate of inflation, how to count as no one can hold more accountable than we have. I think that there have been. I mean I've, been to link Germany
museums thousand leg. It just seems, like doesn't monuments, museums in Germany sucks having a point that I would term employees that bans books, because I don't want you to know about their their history. I don't think they held up until only liking several decades and you can big freely, there's no freedom of speech in Germany by the way, it's a hate crime. If you about the Holocaust and unsavory terms or Nazi Germany, which I am not at all I'm saying not. April Holocaust for our problem. Why is it of good fro Israel? Ok, I'm probably more pro Israel than anyone. You know right here, but I do If someone is going to be a holocaust denial that shouldn't crime and it isn't Germany. I dont think that there is no freedom of speech and that bans box in the realm of history. That's pretty! New german winter was the entire world twice Germany, allies, but yeah I mean access. Yes
but I guess it cultural relativism. We see them as the axis of evil. They see as the axis of evil differences. We weren't the ones gas issues, so I in an objective way. They were the axis of evil. Now yet say I've not disagree So now we can objectively say that gassing Jews, Holocaust is objectively evil, but we can't say its objective evil to rip out part of an unwilling motive to sacrifice on applying the eager to see. Little haven't I mean that's fine, but I accept fully think died. The I just don't think that it's our right to go in and take away what we ve done and to this day is we have basically put date American sit side. We ve put other cities subsiding. We basically said if you want to live in our society, you have to
assimilate yourself and you ought to learn how to become of true american. I mean I mean that's. I have literally no idea what it means to be a true American, because our countries literally based off of immigrants, and so the fact that today we don't even live in a world where, where we live in a world where people believe that English should be the national language, and where entire populations are told that they are an american enough because they speak Spanish or because they don't kill talker looker dress like their american and there's no definition, but I want a true American is a true american. As someone who this of the beauty of the American haven't, you conflated two things. You said we cast aside native Americans, we most of them assimilated, most unwillingly, some of them unwillingly we can, the sign minorities, we freedom and their ways, Let's have a national day of Thanksgiving inlets celebrate this immunity we didn't cast.
Women aside. We gave them equal rights and that's it. Ok, let's out we made progress, progress happens instaurators. Your ears, I know, is applied to the thousands of years of native Americans, good luck and then getting old women right about. So I don't think you said we cast aside natives weaknesses that always people, none of that is accurate men. Those things are accurate because and then you say, we're nation of emigrants also that we just cast deliverance aside Neither one of those things are true. Neither one of those things are true. The truth is that, unlike native Americans, who wanted and ass no state and by the way, an extreme example because they wanted only their tribal bloodlines to continue- and you see this and other countries across africa- you see it across the Middle EAST, being a true american, subscribing to a set of ideals and those can be found in the declaration of independence and the constitution. The amendments therein, that's the wonder of the United States and that's why so many native Americans, so many Haitians who migrate here Italians, Jews, the polish drew that one point. Of course Irish have we come American, because it's about subscribing to these ideals that people will travel, the entire ocean they will,
they will brave the stormy seas to try and willingly assimilate to american culture, and only one and this I believe, that's because it is superior and we ended evil to a degree that has not been seen before the United States doesn't mean that were perfect and that's why look thanksgiving? I am grateful that we both live here and am grateful that you or the hat The boy, the bar click, run much started over the water. There's someone you baby at what will you do suffer soft I you Stephen nice to meet you so yeah, I'm sure you know the topic of discussion. I know that we're often taught, especially in schools Columbus day, thanks giving and its own racist. How I don't agree. I think it's a wonderful holiday that should unify the nation. I think it has done me good will do me good. I say God bless it happy Thanksgiving and if you disagree are more than welcome the change from my
launch scooter, and you can see the real. So I think it means actually my favorite holidays well by saying that, where people where it gets controversial, is the origin story that we're talking about assure that native Americans and pilgrims peacefully got together and shared a meal, and that's the story that kids are taught that's kind of the nurse. It is that we push especially now that you're dressed as a programme should, but you recognize this wasn't all for not, but I saw a video that was made in twenty fifteen and its from cut dot com.
And it's a video that is a series of interviews that the interview native Americans and they asked them to describe Thanksgiving in one word right to amend these people say massacre racist, false holiday on peaceful these kinds of things. So I thank you for asking native Americans how they feel about the hall and that's what they're saying then shouldn't we listen to them. Oh sure, you can listen to him. Doesn't it that's what the holiday is? Okay, so So before we get it, why is it your favorite holiday, really like cooking, and I thought what the holidays about. For me it's about giving thanks to the people in my life I just think that when people talk about how things looming what're you most thankful for, I guess able to go home to my family and having Samuel right, but I think that and people are talking about
I think you may is controversial. That's what they're talking about so how'd you. How do you come back to that is incorrect and cracked, ECHO Thanksgiving, is a celebration of the sixteen twenties Wendy. The Pilgrim settlers did have a meal of thanksgiving with the fingerprints, will want to walk. No egg is at dinner. I'm not sure why roadmap and I want to celebrate and fifty years of peace after that now, if we want to know about the fact that there have been some acts of barbarism committed, such ass yeah, of course committed against native Americans and, of course, committed against native Americans from native Americans themselves. Obviously, that happened obviously throughout the historical timeline, but that didn't happen at thanks giving and it's interesting because it now deal. One thanks, you mean was recognized officially as a federal holiday, so this is what I actually think it's the least racist holiday out there, because its proactively holiday, designed to symbolise unity was Abraham Lincoln, who wanted to,
after the civil war after some motivate workers I don't have that kind of Paul consumers, a hunch back up their interface mask. After the Emancipation proclamation actually very soon after Abraham Lincoln thought, it would be a good idea to have a national holiday that symbolise unity for all Americans at this point, like Americans, White Americans, and so they did look back to that nineteen. Twenty one original thanksgiving that symbolized the old world converge with the new world in fifty years of peace, and also I'm looking to create a unifying holiday across all racial divides. He looked to moment in. The american history for our officially country, warning happened as well. Why we celebrate Thanksgiving, but even if its, if something proactively promotes unity, if there are people who don't feel that way through those people were marginalized and affected by the to barbarism that that you just but you said, happened.
But another thanksgiving didn't happen throughout history. Sure we're not buy things like that, but if, thanks giving is about a moment of unity between pilgrims and made a member. Hence, but the rest of the time that those two peoples interact it was filled with violence and inequality. Then why is it just that day, a company first if it wasn't the rest of the time the time may millions of native american people died because of colonial people coming over. People who is estimated actually about fifty percent of native Americans from it will have to be aware that a lot of you, not only the sailors, were, went down, they cause. Near their devotion, In other words its not a genocide, is it doesn't leave aside its action on a genocide of my definition? the disease there's just keep the conversations between two four, They didn't bring disease here. They did bring disease with them and have been wiped out. Quite if you need
American that was actually before the thanksgiving when they came back to an abandoned village, ensure your whereabout because they were wiped out by diseases. Well, I hadn't encountered because it hadn't domesticated most animals, then domesticated horses. They have no contact with forces. There are technologically very regressive, they didn't use the wheel. Happened was there was a moment of peace that for fifty years we a large, very long portion of history, that was very peaceful native Americans. There are multiple alliances between new settlers and native Americans, because native Americans were warring with each other. We do choose. There was a holiday to celebrate this moment of unity, which used to celebrate a positive moment, I mean you can look at veterans Day or memorial day. Will that are horrible, outlines organised way about? That's how it is you do sending the fourth of July S Sunday, with Christmas gap, I'm muslim yet because slavery still practised across the islamic world, so you believe that now is it not. I mean it's practice across
entire world. None round is not just the fault of the United States versus the islamic world. Is it it's the world, the islamic world, all different kinds of? it's really in comparison to example, the settlers and Modern America here's what we're not celebrating that what we were not celebrating the spanish inquisition. We celebrate Christmas. Christians committed some horrible actions and we're not celebrating war with native Americans. We celebrate Thanksgiving, we're celebrating a moment of peace and unity because it shows that it can be done. I think what people? Why is? an acknowledgement that these things happened on all right wing an acknowledgment of these racist things that did happen and implying that maybe the narrative we push isn't true and acknowledging that there was a agreement, then violence between these people. I think people too,
want that acknowledgement and buy out flat out saying Thanksgiving is not racist. I think a better way to. I think you could say that Things did happen and this is what it's based on an thanksgiving has evolved into behind something else, but that doesn't mean I'm going to erase the opinions of native Americans who suffered who, opinions on the American to suffer the someone I'm doing by saying things even isn't inherently re says you are erasing, so in other words, unless I say that thanks giving is inherently racist, I'm erasing the opinion of all native Americans yeah, maybe not but those who feel that he's racist the spirit of the modern marginalize grew. You know and we're pushing the narrative that they were happy to have you mean they were in for fifty years. They were so it's not a good thing. I've heard that that dinner didn't What did happen? Not only two- and I am also urges you- people try to go to the wind from diaries later and I believe it was in the sixteen thirties where they had thanksgivings during times of war against the peak laws.
But that wasn't all the same thing that was, they were thankful for during battle that they had fewer casualties, and so I think it's probably what you're conflicting they teach that often in school. I know it's kind of interesting that you say we don't Johnny this when I went to college when I went to high school, I was talking about colonialism and how awful the settlers, where I never thought I was never talk, for example, of all the warring between the tribes of the cannibalism of scalping that they were doing. I was taught that they were peaceful people and these settlers came in and show their land when the reality was they were warring. They were barbaric. We had many years of peace. We came in, we purchase land, we traded. We had a healthy trading relationship for a while, and I d like to share this was their land here. There are strictly argue that that colonialists or barbarians for coming in and taking their my certainly, which are the colonialist we're barbaric compared to us today, and I would certainly see the native Americans
we're barbaric and their practices compared with colonialism. Just because you don't bring and understand what something doesn't make it barbaric once we know the fact that in the coming years the wheel didn't have plumbing pluming Romans, I guess I'd make them soup inferior, tell urged me to order I want him of our American less evolve technologically and societal definition, rather than the connotation definition rather than the cottage tat. You seem to be someone who ignores connotations, nor do because Thanksgiving has a negative connotations in some people's eyes, but you're ignoring that connotation sort of Christmas, yeah sort of Christmas? You know you don't talk about either. Aren't you talkin? Christmas I long Christmas. Wonderful and should be celebrated. I know that you made it clear that you disagree. You dont like Christmas, you dont like Ramadan you dont like Easter, you don't like Thanksgiving. I believe that there are certain moments throughout american history. I let fourth of July independence that can be celebrated regardless of imperfections throughout history, and I think that
important to note, and I think that it's a good thing to honour and show that there can be a moment in time of peace, because we have for fifty years, regardless of the wars and happened before we came here DES effect, luxuries outweigh fifty years, digging native Americans are thankful for being put on reservations like centuries after meetings being given reservations after last moors, Let me let you to see you don't like any other holidays and you, I'm completely ignoring someone's opinion. If I don't agree with some now that's out, I said I said that you're going the opinion of marginalized people who the holiday affects the glorification of the holiday negatively affect because eighty erases, what they say, happened to them. And they were here first, so they should have a say in what the narrow about one thing. We can have a say. Limits a razor
But if you re a certain worrying civilian lives like any erasing, someone's experience is a form of racism erasing experience in reforming it in recent experience, but by by saying it isn't racists, you are erasing someone's. Yes, you are inherent incorrect. Why, that's not the definition of racism. What's it eh fisheries definition, racism is believing that somebody is inferior solely We stand their race, that's prejudice, racism is institutional, lies elsewhere, venetian yesterday, yes, it is not as it is not an institution, serene everyone with individualised definition. We can organise strategically individually having racist via. Let me ask you this: maybe we confront in coming to you, because you are things going: like what should we do, then right com act is made between two civilizations, for example, this happens right. One has
rifles and one has wheels in horses and engage in peace, and then there are land disputes when land was purchased. So let's just get rid of what we have right now. What would you do? You would have no thanksgiving. What will we do? what should the United States be genuinely, can I think, just an acknowledgment like Everyone should acknowledge what happened I believe everyone does. I don't think so. I have, so is it ok to knowledge that there were acts of of portable evil in violence across all sides, and still celebrate Thanksgiving for what it is that ok, no question about that Do you think that it is better to celebrate, Thanksgiving and recognise a moment of unity and encourage it both ways The early settlers are clearly pilgrims in the native Americans, as well as after the civil war. Do you think it's more productive to have a day to celebrate that and incurred
a kind of unity and bridging that cultural divide or you think it's less productive. I think its performance. So if someone energy signalling something performative, then does it really do the good that you are describing what you immodest roaming, the unity, the unity that striving like something's. Performative, then, is that unity really there's a performance of unity which doesn't actually think I mean you just talked about thanksgiving, cooking and spending time of family. I mean that's, that's unity right there right, that's prioritizing giving thanks. I mean. I think that thanks, honestly is the least exclusive holiday Christianity across miss Christianity would exclude people I related secular Ramadan would exclude people of other religions. You know you can take your pick. Your many villages, holidays Thanksgiving, is be thankful for what it is that you do have, whether your Christian, whether lies- what am I gonna, talk about what happened markings we ve talked about it.
I'll, throw my life, and I learned about talk about even acknowledged at the dinner table. Do you should read Well, I didn't say I wouldn't they should well thank you for telling me what I shouldn't should not do matters time and you wouldn't think that is not all in any way is overstepping grounds are being pushing. I will. Maybe you should discuss with your family, be at the history of doing. That was an accurate that you brought here to the table we can all get an accurate account of what happened historically and maybe discussed as well. The acts of barbarism is still go on since you're muslim across the islamic world. They do to remedy actually, you do do so when you discuss phenomenon I discuss an hour or two
I like to discuss how I think that Islam itself isn't in certain middle eastern countries how its import for women as a woman and as a muslim woman who is raised with some, I believe that that's an equal and I will acknowledge that I like to acknowledge how their side Libya, for example, is guilty of her part see you know, the royal family has so much money. I don't you talking a lot lower right now because are concerned about licensing is when yeah, I guess so. That's just ingrained in me once, but sat into my appreciated and I appreciate your hearing no actual there, and then you have those discussions. I don't. I don't think you need to do that enjoying Romanones Lohala that it is in celebrating it with your family is a wonderful thing. Regardless of this Muslims are imperfect. Christians are imperfect,
native Americans are certainly imperfect. If you go back to old Colonial England in search of being under certainly imperfect bottom, the empathy for what they say and it just makes it difficult to not speak up. For that I am able to use the thing. I know it s like I hardly as well, but I also you can also empathy and understand what people are saying is inaccurate, makes it difficult to not speak up for the environment, but here's the thing I know it. I should like to say as well, but I also you can also and understand that what people are saying is inaccurate For example, I have a relatively small, nothing it americans bipolar. This is an example. Understand that's right, I'm a relative whose bipolar and describe situations or scenarios that are not real. Had empathy, fine and empathy flying but does not necessarily accurate, and so I love them
and I care about him and I let him know eliminate cured. Madam, I dont engage on the playing on the wavelength that what you're saying is accurate. I don't get it had severe mental illness at the way people feel about stuff. You got your answers to listening. You are depending on what is opening hours to finally decide. Frocks adamantly use that term. Definitely mental I'm not saying, I'm not contain bipolar too need. American was saying that I can one can have empathy without necessarily agreeing with the premise as far as its accuracy, so I can have empathy for native American saying hey thanks Giving to me represents all of these wars that occurred in these battles and genocide. That can saying hey. You know, I understand how you feel, but that's not what Giving a celebrating- and I can say I understand how you feel, but there also wasn't mass genocide committed. If you actually look at last, has activated by definition it wasn't genocide. There were more than one side, one one sided more mind you, but there was
by that definition that genocide with the mohawks Mohicans, the algonkins, the Iroquois. I mean they would cannibalize people in front of their family right, if one of them had advanced technology, in other words, one of them, whereas advances the early settlers, this would all be mohawk. Country was peaceful culture, everyone, human nature, and I think that taking a holiday and removing the grass root removing the beauty of this holiday, which is meant to symbolise unity in giving thanks to, if we re inject, what is human nature active Well that occurred nine during this holiday, but someone a timeline I dont think helps healing, I think of anything, it's it's divisive, so we can agree that the idea do we agree that the idea of Thanksgiving in your head has shifted into something else, not a seller. Sure of or not interracial of races but a celebration of unity? Is that what you think? you thanks giving the celebration of unity and always has, but why it's a giving? Why can it be a celebration of unity and light?
acknowledgement of duration- you can do that Stop it I'm argue again. I just think that people are going. It also needs to be accurate. So if you want you teach, for example in, and I think we would all three run on countless occasions. You guys are certainly not taught that are the settlers are great news, peaceful that, certainly not what's being two classes are. I think it's even against often seems like a change your mind. I appreciated that was about hunger saying no. Now We continue remember that these types of videos can only continue with your support by joining month, join up a lot of credit come Slash, mug club, four tons of more exclusive content, including a daily show that you dont get available on Youtube and to ensure that videos like this will always continue to exist. On Youtube itself all right, let's get back to it next month, Matthew S, image, Matthews Stephen, so committed around but again this week on clarifying this Miss communications tunnel.
Thanks giving today, and I don't think it's a racist holiday at all ass, giving a celebrated has done me good and will do me good. I say God bless it. Happy thanksgiving to you you are more than welcome to change my mind discussion about this, but for what are you most thankful for but I must thank you for being here duty, great school awesome. Students, hokum noticed family. If they're watching near their non capitalist no you're attitudes that men too good for you So what would disagree? If you will allow me, I agree that you were saying that you think it's the least races holiday around there. I think there are some aspects of that that I agree with The idea of an Indian try company over these pilgrims. You know I'll, be rid of american native Americans. I'm sorry jeez, yes, auditors band that Canada, coming together at a time of need. Breaking Brad is like that's one in motion
recognizable american things in our past right. It's it's not resettle by the idea of what comes after that. I'm sure you heard this before the mass genocide of these native Americans by the very same pilgrims are like that's an undeniable fact of american history that we cannot ignore and ignore that and pretend that it did not happen and do not ignore, today. What I I think would be and here they racist and it's not to say that think we should stop celebrating things even, but I think we should acknowledge that, and maybe incorporated more of a day of mourning into that celebration is wrong. So I guess somebody is booming their citizens This is a remarkable you and I can sit down and disagree and have a discussion with some people to choose to boot. Good old Austin, one lesson for seven wanna be really clear, not denying that there were atrocities committed on across the board mass genocide. No, I disagree with that. We hear that second, but that doesn't change what Thanksgiving is first and so little
people do as they try and take actions, afterward acts of evil, committed, afterward to discredit media thanksgiving, and you see that that's a national movement right now. You see it with Columbus Day and indigenous peoples day. If we do that, that sets a precedent we could do if, for any reason for Christmas, we can do it for veterans daily different memorial day. We do for labour day. We can do it for Amazon, We choose what we celebrate right and we you to celebrate a very specific instance in sixteen twenty one, where the pilgrims peacefully broke: bread and feasted, with native Americans and that peace lasted for fifty years, so it sounds like an agreement without them the Thanksgiving, as it is a good holiday as you today. I do think it is a good holiday, but I believe there are some changes that could maybe had been and you, does and we'll get a second what you believe. Those changes should be based on the idea of men genocide, but use it came from the very same pilgrims. Bulgaria
likely matters as recent years, probably like some of those same but like also a lot of other colonies as well. Coming from comes feebly. Mass genocide was committed I do believe, a not entire wiping out of the native Americans a force, but that that tribe and a major genocide, yes, which, though Wapanachki tribe, It was not a weapon wag I know you can we right now and you have a terrible we're talking school right mentioned since, like the first great really right and it's not true, it was no genocide. Really I wasn't genocide committed their wars, fine, so there actually in article I think University Massachusetts that was written they. Finally, to close, this estimate that I found So the estimate of how many native Americans were wiped out about fifty percent and that the lot but here how many the sellers are wiped out. Thirty percent, so that's it really indicative of the genocide? That's indicative.
Wars that were fought and one side, one granted. It was pretty one sided battle with one sites from here, and that was the guys with the white beards and the funny hats writing funny uniform. But that being said, the Americans did try to commit genocide. Against other tribes. They try to wipe other tribes off the face of North America, and so I think that if going to single out colonialists and settlers from what happened when you do it accurately wasn't genocide. There were wars fought nor are much more effective. We also need recognised. Then it was happening on arguing and much more barbaric level before the settlers came here, and I don't think that's taught in school right. I would just argue that allow the native Americans were defending themselves like on their land, the land that one there's first and then the car came yes, they broke the A lot of them were peaceful and try to break bread
as we now know, but they were a lot of that a lot of times initiating the conflict and that's not all does not you all the time I know but and the peace was broken because they killed in English translator to which grant us miss me patient mobility starting a war, but I'm a native Americans with a native Americans this idea that peaceful, horseback culture is just not true. I am sure you will actually, We do know that they hadn't domesticated horses had in another. They didn't you horses, that's a big reason. They got a lot of the diseases they came in like an animal tat. They never domesticated as I that we deliberately transmitted smallpox blankets centuries before germ theory and the truth is I've never been in a hoarse writing. So you develop immunity, so it wasn't horseback culture. They didn't use the wheel, it wasn't a peaceful culture, they would cannibalize people sometimes do it where they killed the rest of the families of the family could know that their their patriarch had been cannibalized. You know some. We talk
this country, and for that I know, I don't think you're suggesting that we work. We should give the went back and I Eric and now it's then you couldn't pick who, even today, that's it. That's all different regarding, like it, but but I'm not denying the atrocities that were committed right. I just find it unproductive and I think that this is kind of a through wine, particularly on campus, to teach kids. When we talk about Thanksgiving to say or canvas day given. Actually they were a bunch of mass genocide is settlers. When that's not really the case there was human. Replay evil on all sides, and the colonialists in what became the United States of America. Or singularly unique for ending that barbarism in record time. So think. That's important yeah. I agree with you. I just think that you know sovereignty is a is a totally different meaning. The oats just today become a lot a knave Americans like they aren't. MIKE mentioning the conversation, sometimes when it biological today, they just like a day of communism with family is breaking bread and that's
I think that's awesome. I love thinks I'm just saying that really is declining. Why too anyhow, they, like you, said- and I think you said, why do I say, discrediting holiday that we choose to celebrate because of evil to proceed? it could be used with anyhow right, and I think that we try to do that a lot with thanks giving because it tries to lay all the guilt at the feet of White Europe. In settlers, and I think it's an inaccurate depiction. Whereas Thanksgiving is a very specific instance that we celebrate, because it was a moment of the old world and new world breaking peacefully, and I think that that's not really talk very much. It gets lost in the shuffle, because the way I look at how we did it once we get for fifty years, We should do that again in a special, in the negativity out there and I would have to say, though, like- and this is discussed- controversial allowed by candlelight. If I were to make, I some sort of like compare, and right can be like People may the argument that what, if you know the jewish,
people of Europe and in nineteen thirty nine employees came together with the Nazi Party so before. Like anything happened, They they had a great moment a piece of bread and the greek invitation logically dictators enough? came together? Would like a large People just like said: okay, like we're brows and everything and in the Holocaust happens like. Couple months later, like we're still celebrate that day, they came together and they broke bread if they paid a haughty of that I don't think it's an apt comparison and the reason why is because not now genocide? Again we have thirty percent of the settlers nor wiped out. I mean, how many gestapo, how many assess we're taking up my Jews not anymore, not they were taken out by think on the settlers. The american running world right, we came on and native Americans would never be able to do that because I didn't use the wheel. So I think a little on planes. I mean that's an example to right now, let's say, let's say,
early. The settlers never come right. Mass genocide, for example, if he knows but Manhattan was purchased beyond. So we purchase for what they call sixty guilders worth, which I know sounds like an hour cagey game, but that was basically ship full of light close to ten thousand pelts and timber, and not one of them. And I believe it can, our sea some dispute, but they ve been. What we now know is modern Brooklyn, so they sold. It was purchased in colonists that ok we want, we want, I'm now live in Manhattan. They didn't keep any records. They didn't really interesting concept, the personal property. Just they come and so what we thought it was a lease. Once again, we gave you a ship, five thousand of pelts and would because this is our life now and then Todd and class, often as they kicked people out of Manhattan. No, what happened was they believe they were purchasing on these try didn't understand personal property, the same granted there's a miscommunication, but after that, when the settlers had set up camp with their families and created the Manhattan? I know you can't come back here and just
the land back and then a worse, does I don't see that as genocide different from Adolf Hitler saying we need to rid the country of Jews, never actually happened, unionized its. We never sought to completely rid the country of native American. You don't even know it that's why I'm more people have a percentage of native American than ever before, like Johnny Depp is one sixteenth, Cherokee Elizabeth, worn right just one one thousand twenty fourth charity Cherokee should progress at twenty three me now, because she just prove that she's, the widest person in Amerika. I am more sub saharan african and we then she has Turkey and her. But there is a lot of intermarrying. There was a lot of intermarry idea. First was to have them assimilate to become one culture, and if not, then there were wars that occur and by the way the wars weren't just phosphorescent versus the natives. The war What we have people. The wars were: natives versus the natives, who sided with the guys who had guns and horses. I mean we,
Just recently we talk of a gentleman who was uptown. Madame South America think you're gonna Cortez there. Only if you can keep it, and many many many many thousand enshrined of minds and ass. What happened? Others, were enslaved, amazing, I'm gonna, take my chances with the guys with the Red Beard, and shiny hats, because I'm tired of being cannibal, enslaved and scout so this idea than it was mass genocide that we try to purge a country of native Americans, and then it was a piece horseback culture that women harmony before us it couldn't be further from the truth, doesn't mean that the warrant acts evil committed from some of the settlers right, but do you think I would. I would ask you this. Do you think, though, because things like This information is is is new to you and I will tell you that it was new to me when I was an adult because on raising Canada to educate myself right, but in school they do despair. Fortunately paint the. So evil or the act of evil on the scale of the colonists.
I'm not really acknowledge the barbarism and brutality and violence from the natives that went on for far longer, and I do they do teach us about that aspect later, like maybe high school, like a deafening college ride like access and acts of brutality that their native Americans do like you're, seeing the scorpion cannibalism. It is, I think, in this machine homage school. They are trying to tell us that the colonists came in kind, invaded these lands which isn't true per se right by. I do I think they are the ones that initiated the conflict most the time and they are with the one that came to this land to try to take that land. And that's, I think, that's a fact. I don't. I don't know does any disputes there but There is a racist like I something. There is a racist intention, they're not necessary because it like a car their skin and sense, but they did come to take these lands and that breaking up
on that day was important I think we should also recognise that and whether that includes I'm not getting rid of things That's ridiculous right, but maybe what you propose by Colombia State of indigenous Peoples day right, I think maybe that gets a little bit more. Maybe that's a topic that now the time and indigenous peoples they they were just here for a long time, and then someone discovered it where indigenous we're celebrate. We're choosing to celebrate a day where are you world was discovered, doesn't mean that everything is perfect. So my point is when you have a sliding scale of since everything is not perfect, we have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and do it with a holiday is, is not only something that I don't agree with, but I think there's a far more sinister undertone in that there is this. Active goal and I've seen on campus and from a lot of professors to paint. The western european colonialists. As far more evil or ill intentioned than they were, and to gloss over the good that they did I think it is a lot more good than the native Americans ever did. I really do believe that. Let me ask you this
I noticed her eyes like wait. What I saw a reaction, so before Columbus, showed the ocean blue in coordinating right first Thanksgiving, sixteen twenty one. So, let's start with thanks Wainwright sixteen twenty one because of kind of first main interactions so before in twenty one How long and I know that there are many native american drugs and they were born when each other for a long time, but how long worthy here before sixteen twenty tens of years. He has agreements just put a general thousands of years. We agree on that right, thousands of years. Ok, we're still enslaving, scalping, Lee beating killing women burning people alive right. There are still doing that won the colonists got here. So sixteen twenty one from that point. How long did it take for us to actually just outlaw the practice of slavery from from which point from sixteen twenty one? roughly two hundred years, so thousands of years
progress. Two hundred years singularly unique in not only ending scalping and burning alive and in Canada, limited and engaging, but actually ending slavery, but are they still goes on across the world right to those are now in the Middle EAST, but it also goes on in a lot of tribes and are mostly untouched by the new world. So would say: let us from going to teach it. We need to teach them. There was a war one side sure they came and conquered this land. You can say that they stole it You can ignore all the property rights and the trees that we're sign in to say they stole the land That being said, they did far more problem as far as progressing towards human rights for everybody in the native Americans ever had and that's an irony that I think is lost in a lot of progressive. That is for this reason I guess, like my question to you would be so do. Would you be in favour of clay, a day of mourning, or would you just say like they deserve it? At this point, I think that every every single history class of time on campus is effectively a class of morning. It's a curriculum of morning. I think that if we
Now, if I were to go in- and you can disagree with me and tell me think, I'm wrong, but I think if I were to go into any history class, it teaches about the early settlers here and you t campus. I would wager that eighty percent of them would teach the story of the colonialists as evil as conniving is trickery. The committee has genocide. I think that's why you came in and use the word mass genocide. I think you're somewhat pair, from what you learn from your professors and think along, and I agree with you that that is it. That is the term. They do use mass genocide, bright and ice. Ike, do not think it was a mass genocide. I do think there are aspects of it that were, though, I do see, are pointing massive numbers of people die right right, sometimes it went both ways, for example, when one another colonialists for caught by surprise we termite wounded knee that obtained only thirty eight year european settlers were killed because the number was disputed
once I had guns and horses we, this can happen. If there's a gang were here, you team one side as cars and a our fifteen's and yet. Side has, but when I never giving your bird scooters genocide. It like this happen in Hong Kong renewal process. Pretty much not exactly the same good is not going as genocide, but it is true that the people are being oppressed by and using governance those in Arizona, if you don't have thus been confirmed, I think so but I haven't even seen. Output is yes, I do know it is a disproportionate disproportion level of power from the government parties, protesters language that the holder and it's got anything get into. My thoughts and prayers are with those people in Hong Kong, unlike the NBA, apparently they gotta keep people down there. From China, but my point there's plenty of morning because that's what's talk to young people. I think that is, primarily taught, and I think the way The scales have gone too far, the other way or when we want to celebrate Thanksgiving. There are far more people saying will actually that's problematic than there are saying hey. Let's take a moment to give thanks, I don't really think
he D put anymore that's out of this scale. What I'm doing here is trying to re Tipp the scale to say Nano United States is a great country. I'm really glad that the United States exist. I'm really glad that they discover the new world and I'm going to give thanks on this day. Regard of Professor tells me. So we hope that was productive. No it was utterly parisian. I appreciate your candor to integrate. It helps me to learn to what you guys are talking about in classrooms and stuff, but I suspect much because when I went to college, but that's it and one sided just helps out. Have a conversation without protest While there was someone who started there and I think it is unfortunate, I think she she she showed him out, but I some say Jeff
Epstein didn't, kill himself merit. It emerges, cried or nice to meet you price to me, I don't have familiar with what we do with these chain from mine segments but The idea that we sit down in rationalize our positions on controversial topics to be a debate today, I know this is a sensitive topic for a lot of people thanksgiving, particularly as we the way it's time on campus. I do not thanks giving a racist holiday. Probably the most inclusive national holiday that we celebrate. I think it has done me good will do me good. I say God bless it, and, if you just three or more than welcome chain from my happy thanksgiving to you, what are you most thankful for right now? most thankful for my family, that's nice! When you have good famine, yeah my mom and dad
being without them. Burnoose. One of you, thankful to be going to? U t but you're the first one dissenting thankful for her family, I wouldn't be going to? U t without my family there either, everything I do wonderful, so you're more than welcome too think of something to change my mind? Ok, here's what I think. I think then, when you get down to the semantics of the platform, you know things Having isn't racist changed my mind? I think from the John, the line, get blurred, because the dean rotation of the word racist is too of pregnant bore discriminatory attitudes towards other races through ok, and so I think that when we look at the semantics and do notation Thanksgiving is not racist. I agree with you. However, I do think that its- story is immovably rooted and some colonialist an oppressive events. I think that's an arsenal bored. I mean. I think that
yeah Thanksgiving. I mean Thanksgiving specifically, I think the euro and, of course, History is pretty blurry in every single textbooks seems teachable differently, but white settlers came over here and they display spartan made it. So you do so every touch purple future differently. I mean a lot of texts, both duties on they shouldn't there's a problem. I just think that six twenty one. The pilgrims, though, want eggs mopping one. Well, I was giving pronunciation on Housing Kenilworth Iroquois on the algonquins. I'm not is familiar with the Americans, but now it's very specific, sixteen twenty one. We need a feast these four fifty, whenever you frame like like you said this is a very sensitive issue for some people and I think on some levels and important issue, not a lot of it. Doesnt cross everybody's minds. Honestly, I never stop to think Thanksgiving racist verbatim, like that until I saw your posts, are walking to my table over there,
my issue: is it whenever you Frahm, something like this? As a thanksgiving as racist, you oversight, Why it s not racist yours it's not recent international incidental, saying two races, tolerant, concentrating resources not a racist. However, I do think that but do you acknowledge some of the history behind Thanksgiving holidays, renewed and oppressive colonialist histories, not thanks so little then it's important when you say different textbooks. Teach different versions started your understanding of why we celebrate Thanksgiving my understanding of why we celebrate things. Giving is that technically that first thanks giving is argued to ban the pilgrim. They were here, they had a successful harvest and they invited some of the native tribes to come with them to celebrate their good harvest, you're sending of it are things getting Tangley may national holidays in our states until eighteen, sixty three reminder of hundred and fifty years later. So
It's very blurry when the first things giving was especially considering the native tribes, both in your and here in the United States to celebrate harvest for hundreds of years. So it's what's it's not it's not like it's not momentum. I think it's blaring workable, does not blurry. Historically, we actually and this is something that you read a online. We actually have what Robert historical documents regarding the feast of sixteen twenty one, including the means of attending and the reason that than George Washington we wanted to make it a holiday in October. Jefferson didn't recognize it. The reason Abraham Lincoln recognizes he's an eighteen. Sixty three in official holiday was after Emancipation proclamation after some big battles in the civil war. So we need a national holiday to unify the country right now for there to be some feeling. What example could we point to in history? Very specifically, a very specific example where this has happened. A let's go to the perfect example: the convergence of the old world and the new world in sixteen twenty one with
early settlers in the warm Pineau egg term, like it get that wrong tribes with peace that lasted for fifty, for fifty years to the reason it's a celebration. The region was reckoned by the willingness it wasn't, it wasn't a natural country, so you have a lot of colonies that weren't federally recognise until later, but it was federally recognised later. For that specific date, in in twenty one. There is no dispute about that now. If you have a problem with other examples of only on settling and that I think these are legitimate grievances, fine, but as far as Thanksgiving the holiday, when we celebrate it, no, I don't think there's any any deeply rooted racially motivated history or negatively. I don't I I think that the framing of the issue is poor on your part, that stems back to a lot of what you do here and new conversing with all these college students who, ultimately, on average, aren't as well informed as you are sometimes like
as a college student do a whole lot of googling before I come over here to talk to you, betting sources, from which I was reading Brown on Google. I guess what should I do know that year. If you're going to one of the best universities in the country, you know we shied, but we down and see breezy free to capitalize. On that, because you know more than we do and your play a straight up. Thanksgiving is not races, and it's really easy for you to make. That point, and the first thing I said a little parameters. We know how many professors willing to boot view no financial should be willing to. We would be more than happy, I don't know, I don't think so. You want to acknowledge a challenge as well, so far a child. Similarly, the professors will engage in discussion. You're, not teaching you this. The fact that you have to this is basic. Information, and everyone should know about american history Thanksgiving. Not really. I gotcha that's actually a disservice from your college. Answers in your high school teachers to have not taught you the actual history of Thanksgiving
Are we not agree on that? Specific ideas? Ok, because my goal is not to be rude or to upset you, and I would like to hear a lot about. One of you is, but no, I would disagree with you can still. I disagree with you that there is anything as far racially supremacist or as far as violent colonialist with thanks giving a holiday. Why we celebrated, I don't deny that there were acting evil committing all sides outwards, but no thanksgiving, no problem, and I like it, That is fair, but I will also stipulate that I still think there is a lack of accountability and acknowledgement, and I say accountability, but at times I can't think of a better word at the end of the day, the pilgrims, acknowledges the first successful saddlers like kids. You know there are a couple. Examples here- and there are people coming here and trying to establish something, but pilgrims, most famous successful example.
Europeans idle settlers coming to the eastern seaboard of the content of the and, like I said Let's go on establishing community, and I think that that was the first domino I really do believe that was the first domino, their experience with domino things giving us a domino. The pilgrims coming here was a domino read about the history and all the subsequent years after Thanksgiving Native P, balls were killed by blanks and eventually displaced by the spread of colonies. Through my plugs even before Thanksgiving, because some of the french settlers left and since they had domesticated animals, they would come in that with diseases like India that smallpox blankets. That's that's a myth under Sweden have germ theory, but they did come into contact, for example, horses to view that they headed domesticated horses. I didn't know that actually horses are right and executed, yeah and so the council. Actually, I think we came to an abandoned village at the time of thanks
because they really been wiped out due to some diseases, but I would like to hear about the dominoes so thanks to fifty years after thanks giving because that's when warring started the dominoes and what I think it's a domino effect, and I think that, even if we are not living things giving as racists and that the people first, celebrate people who celebrated- first things giving as we call it. You know the first step blast ritualistic feast to thank Guide or the gods whenever they believed, for there harvest. I think that those people were the fur truly successful settlers and that they established a trend and that, from that point forward, some subjugation and colonialism rooted in bigoted ideas and approach. I think that's where it started an illusion and was in the autumn discussion, because I'm trying to focus on Thanksgiving, but I think that
actually been very reasonable and we both agree that Thanksgiving itself is not a problem, but it simply give a problem with the settlers afterward colonialism, I disagree with you on that. So what what's I was trying to think things give it nobody. Giving is not a problem. What is a problem, however, if we do to argue that we should acknowledge that is bad history around the first things, giving way afterwards over fifty years later, and I don't. But then I think we might disagree as to what history is back. What the motivations work I actually I'm still very grateful that they did settle here and that the United States was colonise so that we can sit here and have opened for an open discussions. So here we Europeans On colonization and what maybe would have been the right thing to do as opposed to what happened. I dont think There was the right to do it. I honestly done and I think that the way people thought back then
wasn't suited to the sorry, not the right way to have done things wish that I could say, will they could have done in this way unless people could have died and less complex could have happened and less native peoples could have been oppressed, her subjugated or displaced, I can have some hypothesis. However, I dont think I have to admit I bought this is for a better way the way it was done wasn't going to offer wasn't right. I do there are certainly some active evil committed on both sides and in celebrating Thanksgiving, that's not the lack of recognising that there is an act of evil committed on both For example, native Americans have their holidays if they celebrate and they farming, barbaric and brutal toward each other than even the the colonizers. Where I mean you can go back to what the Mohican versus the middle oxy algonquins and the Iroquois, you go down south, and you know you talk about the confused two doors. How do you think that Cortez came with five hundred confused two doors and conquered ten of thousands- are hundreds of thousands of people other men.
Tribes were being enslaved and forced to carry goal as well as being dismantled and cannibalize, Nay said: hey we're going to go with the guys in the funny shiny hats, so I think it's important then, if we do that, I agree with you. Think then, we need to recognise the evil which is important, on condition that was committed from all different groups as opposed to singularly western culture. Western Europeans, the Americans colonizers for NATO, Dickens engaged in active evil, the call users data at some point. They didn't try to trade by the Wayne Purchase land, and there are some misunderstanding because it s the same concept of personal property rights. You could certainly argue that in Africa they should celebrate nowadays because the afghan slave trade and whole middle eastern in arabic world they still have slavery. My point is that discredit. The positive that we find in a holiday- and I think that history as being talk here on the campus from what I've encountered teaches that way, stern Europeans who came to the colonizers are singularly unique for active
Well that were committed across the spectrum. When the reality is, we were singularly unique in ending evil in record time. That's just an opinion. Of course I think these are all opinions we have shared here not as the history of Thanksgiving, but yes opinions on whether we think it's a good thing. I dont think that we should just created goods if the Thanksgiving holiday, I dont, think its racist. I think that it is inherently a bad thing. I simply think that If we're going to have this discourse the fur thing we need to do is knowledge. Like you said that it's not all good, and it's not all bad right, think that two people don't have that general sense of awareness that it was not good and it wasn't all bad and they know it wasn't earnestness campus. It was all about. I mean the pillow, didn't pull up and slaughter, everybody not end there
it s more incomplete savages, but there are also wasn't just everybody sitting there. Singing come by are on the thanksgiving tabling a motion all these are an accurate representation words of thanks giving that's. What's so unique about it, it was very peaceful. That's why I'm on Thanksgiving and show that it can be done. There is not a good thing. To highlight a moment in time, of humanity where people came together regardless of cultural differences and didn't speak, the same language old world new world and for fifty years and live in peace and celebrated and traded together. Isn't that something there's so much negativity out there right now is a good thing to find a silver lining and say: hey: we did it once it can be done again. That's why I've thanks giving and that's what the reason I say it's not racist is because it is being accused of being racist all across camps of my country, and some people want to remove it from the national. Registry of national, recognise holidays. I think its a bit Fourthly, I think it's a wonderful.
To go before. I do that. I'd like to go back to my point linguistic and semantic level saying things saving is racist, makes absolutely zero sense and its fair for you to argue the Thanksgiving as racists. But what p we're going to come here. People arguing about something different than what this sign says when they come and sit down here? Talk to you and I think it's really important the you know that, but I think you already know that contributing motive meeting motive, what monetary attributing like, I said I think you know the way at college like me, you're gonna, come sit down and arguing you and you're Goin, argued eyes, isn't the same thing. I think there were arguing two different points we are using the same point. Why are you in the same points whatsoever, and I don't think anybody else who comes to sit down and talk to you today is going to be argued, the same point and would you think he'll be argued? I mean
when we look at it from the effects of like I said, like I said like I thought, if you had to say my apologies. Most people are gonna, look at it from a semantic dealing with linguistic perspective. Most people are gonna, sit down and think now sent on a long history of anyone. That's what was very clear and saying they were out of evil committed all across the board, but Thanksgiving Sounder is ahead of us people are going to think what does the word racist actually mean, and does it make sense for them to oppose this question this way and so on, people are going to come and talk about the evils colonialism and how the claw colonizers we're racists, are going to be arguing about something completely and totally different than what you were going to be arguing Norman already discussed. There were several people, we didn't uranium I know I'm cut you off, you argue major points and I think that we both about a productive discussions, and I was-
we are talking about colonialism explicitly outside of Thanksgiving too. I think that the issue has been poorly and then, if you want to incite an intelligent discourse about such a prevalent issue than you should frame it differently. How would you for it, Renault you may want to remove it from an surely reckoner holidays because of it being racist. I disagree so I'm sitting quick declarative. We, I don't think it's racist, something it's wonderful holiday. How would you frame wooden just say, Thanksgiving isn't racist. Ten from mine, I would say here the positives. Thanksgiving. I acknowledge X Y, see negatives, but I saw it on gets racist and we are not quite so that this very discussion many lastly coming down next shine accepted that on this point about it, we'll talk about it, but most people, I'm gonna sit down and talk to those people out. There can barely even hear us, but that's the pen must cease Cador lubricant sheila-
the liberal and I'm gonna go watch Youtube, Jan only here we have actually had to say and saw the most people, don't kill me. Our time to hearing both sides point of view, but at that. The reality of it and that's what to do the job. That's click run pal professors, don't do it quick Bay thumbnails, and I disagree with you and also died. I think that an hour and a half on edited video uploaded is quickly. Taking the time pressure to kill next Monday for a special bonus edition of change. My mind why does instalment of changed? My mind? Click one of these other installments in the videos. Playing in boxes here. That's the only way, you'll find them because of you I changed my mind. They might not show up because Youtube's deem them controversial subscribe. Hidden ratification bell- and you know, will will will see what we probably won't.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-21.