The third and final episode to wrap up our series on William Herbert Wallace is here!!! In this part Alaina walks us through the bonkers murder trail. The prosecution stays leaping to conclusions and the defense tries their hardest to defend their guy, but you’ll have to listen to find out the verdict! Court Transcripts! https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.220695 The Killing of Julia Wallace by Jonathan Goodman The Man from the Pru film about the case! As always, thank you to our sponsors: HelloFresh: Go to HelloFresh.com/morbid12 and use code morbid12 for twelve free meals, including free shipping! Gabi: Get a better insurance with Gabi!! Go to Gabi.com/MORBID. Simplisafe: Go to SIMPLISAFE.com/morbid today to customize your system and get a free security camera Betterhelp: This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Morbid listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/Morbid Babbel: Right now, when you purchase a 3-month Babbel subscription, you’ll get an additional 3 months for FREE. Just go to BABBEL.com and use promo code MORBID
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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who so sorry that this is coming out a little later than we intended wearisome technical catastrophes have to kill. You would think that, like three years and these things then happen, but for some reason the file, I think, just destroyed itself yea. It was like, I know, we're not done, but you know what I'm excited to do this again because it's fun episode. It is it's a good one, honest about it, no joke! I could have made this like sixteen I know she said that the other day she was like, I think, we're like making dinner or something I would punch the laptop, and I was like I'm glad that you didn't
literally its own, separate, podcast own, pretty sure, like by itself. There is just so much. I had to stop myself from this, including everything, because I found the actual court transcript you would online and outpost them in the show nuts cause. You guys, you gotta give him a little look see. I promise you. They are fun. Reading but I didn't include everything here. For that purpose, even go, listen, Argo read them in. There is just I mean the defence attorney in my opinion was just saw c, I love em. We of sovereignty over me, because he was right in everything said so when he gets real sassy any really takes down Mcferrin we're going to see darted a rail finally fail. Snap, professor MC fail there and he's just not taken any shit in Israel under watch. I also just random email. That said, if it spelled m C,
He h ay, I Alvin. It is indeed MC fail. Oh yeah, that's not how expelled, by about its five, the woman who wrote the email is like that was my ex husband last name, and you are correct. A big fat like that. I love that its silly, like a l, not a I'll so far but whatever, but its MC fail in reality. So when we left you in part to William Herbert Wallis, been arrested for the murder of his wife. I honestly pissed about it. I don't think he did it. I was just about it as well. I was really angry and this was after they had done. You know numerous. You know tests to see what time he had gotten home, what time he had left for men, love
and ceased quoting quote tests. How long he would have had to combat this crime and also clean himself up clean the rest of the house up and then get out of Erin be seen by some one at the time he was the up. We had a milk boy, Alan Close, who was fourteen years old. You originally was like oh yeah. I saw him at a quarter to seven and then suddenly, the police get ahold of em. Keep him in there, like three hours and suddenly comes out, and his story is totally changed. Weird and all the other kids than he had this conversation with, who also had seen him at various times and could cause corroborate the original time they don't bend, which I love. Those kids are, like no Alan, said, courted seven like You're not bending to the police are starting a revolution in these kids. I was like a hell yeah. I love it's like in there. All like newspaper boys are girls. Their milk boys are girls, they're dairy Maurice boys are girls, they're, baked goods
you know that there are just lying. There are re, are based on an errand literally muffin. They are a jelly Dona they're, just like these kids, who are like actually working these jobs yeah bring stuff in there. Just like this lit the I just like picture that, unlike can, we have like a movie or like a many serious just based on this, like this just group of lake, yes, just rebellious milk kids. I think that we already dead and I think that was a recess on Disney I'd figure was you know, I'd or just get. It will take charge of five away. That's on Disney Plus and please go archer there you go there. You go, that's how my my it worked and also when we left you so Wallis had been arrested and Perry there. The guy who he worked with, who was it was a problem
suspect that nobody may look. I'm the guy, you baseball, bat, John Parks, the mechanic who found that men had told his boss. You know this is what I found that this kind of strange I know feet. They know each other right, the vast and send you know what. If Wallace's arrested, you need to go forward with that information to help him out when he was arrested. John parks went to them, so that information in the police said that's cool by end, and I was that they really nothing owl fine, I happened, didn't look into it at all. Can you imagine this guy's, like yeah Skype human like right around the time, Thy Julia walls was murdered and really I mean a clean is currently midnight and I found a lot of blood in their like. Ok, thanks for the info, Thank you for that. We're not gonna write that down or anything will put it in a file ya see later, maybe like. Ok, thank you for that help they just now We will never know why that book that based bonnet was body or whose blood, though us I think, never Julia Wallace's. I think so too much,
imagine if they had tested it- and it was that would generally to the cask boom case clearly was, but they wouldn't have done for some reason. They were just hell bent on getting sex. Fiend opium added mad science Satanist. Did you William Herbert Wallace Otto I've? I've shared the morbid odd cost me somebody like made this hilarious, Instagram, Alyosha, Instagram pages, so funding. I got up but up they made an edit of William Wallace as like a bad all alike. M F, What my guy, as you talk I'll, show you. These are the things about the internet that I've already got baby that another one. I'm screaming all my life reaction to the one that you just made morbid podcast means morbid. Podcast means you are at risk. Sure, there's another one mo here, which is why I like it when you did with the fire and the money that we should. First of all You gotta follow that AIDS because its whole areas, they do an amazing job and also try to focus the photos repose. The
learn to hurry on good nod to share from scream so so yeah. Well, we'll get more into that holding later, but what let's bring us two February third, are right: we're moving quick because they just arrested em now Wallis is gonna, be seen in front of a magistrate got no. This is how it all goes. Has England now the prosecuting solicitor at this time was J R Bishop. He gave his opening statement. and they included eighteen, untrue statements. How's had allow they counted eighteen pieces of misinformation and his opening. Statement why he was just fine now Donald usually led to a mistrial yeah now in the killing of Julia Wallace They lay out all eighteen of he's a may actually come back with rebuttals for them. So I really really suggest you read that book. I'm telling you you won't be able to put it down and you will understand why this case could have been sixteen episode
bad really gone, but I really want you to read the book because the research that person dead, Jonathan Goodman, I think it is shite hold shut up. I want to make sure I made sure it is Jonathan, when I was there, I see better make do so. I would give him his proper scrapper do so. He did amazing research and I think you definitely need to give that book by in a red. so I mean a lay out eight of those misstatements because they're just you much yeah, I was to say how dearly at least one or two. So one of them Is he said that he was seen that Wallace was seen close to his home around seven, but no faultless the seven he was seen two miles away right. He was seen like witnesses said that another one. Is he said that the call from Qual Trow was confirmed to have come from a booth, a phone booth, two to three hundred yards from Wallace's home? No, it was four hundred yards. They confirm, while saw
it's like do that these aren't even like wig. What you do is even matter that magician firm it. He also said quote: it would have taken him just as long to get from that call Box in time to reach the cafe where he received the message. As did time elapsed between the time, the message was received and accused arrived at the They now that's just untrue. They never ever even attempted to see if this was true, like no tests were done to confirm that, so this was literally just bullshit. He made up on the spot right leg. He just said that statement Like I was tat, I know one looked into that there was nothing that set the aid. We love to hear that. He also said they confirmed that the court, while Trow call yes to different voices. Somebody used a different voice when they talk to land is in a different voice when they talk to baby right. That's not confirmed it's just that the two of them said that they heard that they described a different voice, but that's not confirm no, no one's confirm the two different people or two from voices were you.
realistically we have a track down. Cultures are. How would you can feel exactly see? You can't say that that's confirmed if you wanted to say they think this. They described the voices differently. That's fine! You cannot say it's confirmed. It was a different voice. Like who confirmed my brother, then he also said quote: then he says that rising at his home. He went to the front door. That is a curious fact. As you later that he was always in the habit of going in by the back door. Nope, that's not true. He said he went to the front door whenever he stayed out late and during the daylight he went to the back door. Listening skills are taught in pre school, honey, Emmy. So like that he didn't say that we must now then he also said quote: it is a curious thing that the accused, having gone into the house, asked his neighbors to wait in case there was anything wrong, nope the Johnston's insisted that they stay themselves. He did not ask them to wait. Rare in fact,
She told them. No, no! You go. He did not ask them to worry, so that's false when it comes to cars, insurance. Don't we deserve better, I mean I know I do I put my policy to the test and turned to Gabby they literally stand for get a better insurance. We love one of those things that I don't remember what it's called getting better. Insurance of Gabby means a better price for the same insurance coverage who knew something like this even existed? They are thee. One true love just getting comparison platform with real rates. Big, if you and apples apples comparison of your current coverage, would the forty top insurance providers like progressive nationwide. Travellers, Geico all the above and all in one place. All you have to do is use your current insurance information to get started, and you know all about that. It's not even heard to find an just minutes. You'll be able to see, quotes for the exact same coverage you already have and honey,
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wearing it later in the day, but he was wearing that earlier in the day and he made it seem like her. So when an earlier in the day, but for some reason he wasn't later. Will he answered directly Eyedee he'd. That's it for some reason- is not correct. There was an ordinary right. He said he wore it before lunch because it was raining and cold and later it warmed up and stop training, so he didn't needed any more and he went as far as to say I put it on the hook in the hallway and then I put on a lighter, fond colored coach adept at it with your phone Colored Co. So this isn't a for some reason. He fucking reason ragged on record reed and then he said this last one I'll say is quote in the bathroom of the house. On the first floor, there is a water closet and on the top rim of that there was found a bloodstain which there is no doubt at All- was of the same period of time as the murdered woman's death
Now who said that it was only confirm to be human blood nozzle, absolutely nothing else and said it was out. There was from that we're even her blood. You know what I want to say this guy, why you always lion, why you always lie in command. Bishop shut the hell up is in your job. The truth. It's ridiculous Wallace only responded. I am absolutely innocent of these charges, because what else is he gonna say? They're, not gonna, listen, no money, we'll need a product is, I want to say too much, anyways cause they like twitter and he says, he's so Wallace hired Hector Monroe Eyes, his lawyer for the defense, during this residing Lee good choice as large a good choice, so his leave his defence team really did the damn thing for him. Ok and Monroe was like the lead defence attorney for this moment, men, Oh actually went around himself until Wallace's neighbourhood talking to everyone to try to get any
thing to tell him. There was a citing of Julia Wallace after the milk boy saw her right, of course, eventually James cared. Who was the guy that M p did chess with me. I was one of the guys that was there when the call happened. He walked home with him that ninety up James cared had a son. His Sunday Kenneth said that he had to. He had met with Alan close his son and he said yeah. He told us that he saw her at six. Forty five like he said that to us. That is for sure. Will none of us got that wrong? So Monroe talk to Kenneth and he confirmed it to him. He said my memory is very clear in this regard. I came home and told my mother, that's how clear we re so, no doubt, and he said there were a few other children like we said that new this and had heard it to that sucks because then those people really started.
Feel crazy, exactly and so in he's telling Mr Monroe, the defence attorney cause he's I get. We want to help like we're trying here. These were the kids, obviously that we're talking about it before we talked about in part two, yet so attract them down. They all agreed and remember Douglas met calf. He was one of the kids and he was actually the one to be like Alan. You have to go to the police should the European Union, like the one that was really pushing the young woman, ruin to talk to him. He confirmed it again what I saw and when I heard I will not go back on it good and he said I told him to go. Tell the police that's how much it rings in my head. You know what he did say he gave he gave an accurate description and he said on the night of the murder. I was in the Parochial Hall in Richmond Park, giving MR
these the caretaker a paper and there was a lantern lecture growing on. I asked one of the men this at. I asked one of the men the time as I wanted to go to a football match, and he said it was twenty five to seven. I then had to go across the Campbells Dance Hall, enrichment park and when I came out of there I talked to some boys for a very short time and then walked down the passage into Wolverton street. I just crossed over over to twenty three Wolverton street. When I saw a boy named Alison, Wildman, walking down the entry, hordes red born street, so he had now is introducing another boy into this scenario. Yes, so now he's like, I gotta go, which Monroe only get it because women rose like I don't go talk to wild and now right. So we tracked down Allison Wildman He was sixteen years old. He said he always looked at the Holy Trinity Clock on his route.
And on the night of the murder he looked at it at twenty five to seven. He said it takes him two minutes from there to overturn street and he had said to his mother that the next morning easy or excuse me- he had said to his mother the next morning, this like scenario yeah cause he had heard about Julius murder, and so you just kind of accounting has an eye to her being like oh yeah, right there. When I was going on, yeah. So he said quote when I delivered the paper at twenty seven Wolverton street. It would be about twenty two to twenty three minutes to seven. The door of number twenty nine Wolverton Street, that's Julia store was wide open and a milk boy was standing on the top step with two or three Cannes in his hand, he was wearing a collegiate cap when I left, the milk boy was still standing there. Now Alan close went to the collegiate school was Wearing that have that night, everyone confirmed it. Even he confirmed it bull that was Alan, close standing there at the exact time that he originally said he
I believe darlin. So everybody is. This is all confirming this right. All the kids are agreeing but feel they come up with something to do Cancel it well. A guy named David Jones also was somebody who delivered papers. He was older. He wasn't like a teenager, and Monroe spoke to him too, because he's going to get the full. He wants, as many people saying that they saw him. Possible yeah? He said the night of the murder. He delivered the newspaper at around six thirty five and put it in the Wallaces Letterbox the pay. where was found a later open on the kitchen table, so either Sheer Wallace took it from the door and brought it to the kitchen which mean she was likely alive at the time because obviously use Probably not gonna go grab the paper and open it up and put it on. That does mean in the middle of murder. Yet he said at night. He was seen by the police at this time and he had also spoken to them about something and told him again. He also told him of this account of his time line because he was like. I wanted to try to help. So I do you, like
formed them of their see. I don't know why they're saying we haven't he's like they just didn't care, that's easily. We ve all talk to them about those like we ve all, given our timelines too. How to help here? They won't listen. I don't know either pretending they don't notice. So much I learned that they were not added. None of these kids and the sky Davy Jones None of them were added to the list of witnesses by the prosecution, why what status fake a that's crazy, so he tried Monroe tried to have them added because technically, why? Wouldn't you there's? No, he's an they shouldn't, be added where there's nothing to exclude them as witnesses, but. the police went into their backgrounds to try to exclude them as witnesses. That's how far their going here. What is wrong? with these people and unfortunately for the police. They found that they were clear they exist in, but they didn't add them I stole Anderson, understand going so hard at someone who like has no.
Criminal background whatsoever. I think because they didn't wanna, do real police work, yeah monitors they wanted this buttoned up and they wanted to go yup. He murdered his wife, the end or move on, but it's like they don't want to do it. I have a dangerous murderer on the loose. Certainly don't give a shit don't deal with this now, with all their With all this information, all these timelines being confirmed. This is actually decreasing the amount of time that he to kill Julia bring the deleted. I unloved garden ya at first, they figured he was only gonna have eighteen minutes which is not a lot of time right to get their kill her crew clean himself, so that there is not a drop of blood anywhere else in the house in an I perhaps on the toilet, nodded to rap on him, brick, none in a The minutes will now it decreased to twelve minutes. He would have had twelve minutes, which is, ridiculous and then the other thing that you think of as like they're saying that
was wearing that jacket when he held her, that's like, but she fell on the floor. Obviously, at some point then you're telling me that he like lifted her back up, I'll make it unlike stuffed exactly rubbed, it then dear bed and then just walked out nakedly any it wouldn't be like cause. You can see in the picture. The jacket is like lean, very flags. I'd like earth laid very flat like it was on her shoulders right and she fell gets that somebody stuffed it it's strangers remember this is still like the the initial hearing, so their basically doing this to see if they're gonna go to trial, Oconnor Judge has to decide whether they go to trial with a jury or, if he's gonna make the decision gotcha. Now they bring MC fail onto the stand during the front row and you know he's gettin girl, because he's just bullshit failure. So he quote, he said quote: I relied mainly on post mortem rigidity, but this evidence was corroborated.
My observation at nine, fifty of the large clot blood clots on the edge of the hearth rug, from which there was small amount of serum oxidation, the appearance of which was very characteristic, the evidence of the blood clots. So he is saying The separation of a tiny amount of serum out of a blood clots confirms the for our death mark. This is bullshit an bullshit more bullshit. The amount of blood was a variable here that it's going to change things. It's not going, he loves to say, definitively things now Rarely and forensic science is something so definitively get. You can be like one hunter. Percent of the time. This means that it is for how ya rare We can make hair and stuff like that. You'll get here, and it's like it's over.
Ninety eight percent, matched to like you and seventeen other people, humans and the world around us by nature, a variable, the others too much variants around us for anything. To really be one hundred percent confirmed quickly, variable again buried. it's a crack crack. So the amount of blood is the thing here that really changes that so It was so much blood that the weight easily could squeeze some ceremony prematurely because there is so much blood that it's like all weighing on each other. I hateful another doctor Doktor Robert Coop said the amount of serum that was actually there did. Even indicate for hours, but probably no more than three. He said I wouldn't even put it he's at three is like the absolute max. I would even put it at wow. And he and Doktor James Henry Devil, who was a professor of pathology at the University of Liverpool, did an experiment,
YO. So a man in the area when they found all this out had just killed himself in a round town and they ran to the morgue as soon as they found this out. This is about us where and when he was brought to that morgue and they mediately sat down when he was brought in and they observed his head wound cause. He had a massive and they watched the changes in the blood for hours. Why they just sat there and watched him and watch the blood clots watch to what the serum damage I've. U, like absolutely bonkers area. That sounds awesome to just be a because you're doing it further. The name of science like it's like an ex such a cool sphere of if you get ceiling, is like a lot but special of silence. So cool I mean scientists. Would you can watch? It happened in front of you? Oh hell, yeah, so in two and a half hours, there was a quote very abundant amount of serum that squeezed from the blood in the head two and a half hours right. So this proved the Esta
of death could be off by at least two hours. That's a lot of ours to be off by cost I wasn't even a lot of serum exactly and that a very abundant amount coming out a two hour and a half hours to heads of how much blood there was in two hours. Of course in real like now. Are you know, estimate of death is always a huge estimate and that's fine, but their hinges. this entire came there saying definitively like eight happened for hours as I thought shore- and this is all their using. His estimate of death is where they are, laying all of their ducks than all of them are going there. They cause they're saying this is when he left. This is when he did it so he's off by this much. It throws everything into question. Of course, it's insane. They said they couldn't give a time after they did this experiment, because there are like we're still not gonna give a time of one. Julia was killed because we can't even get a time, but there are like it is certainly not for hours that law and they said they
the variables we're just too much to give a definitive time and they are responsible, so that like when I can tell you something just because we wanted to fit a narrative right, but they said it could absolutely one hundred percent have happened after Wallace left there, like one hundred percent by the bye, that serum it shows yeah. So that throws it into question, but apparently rooms like ok, whatever now, that's a frustrating bishop did his fur follow up statement, the prosecutor and he put more informative misinformation and that one so just followed it up with more during this. whole thing there are tons of flare up between all the council's. They had to like hundreds of people showed up for these. It was like a circus soon he was one of the first like dry or trial, is really like everyone's coming to watch grey thing, so is just a crazy, like mayhem. Basically, now one of the last witnesses that they brought up was inspector gold and he was unseen at one point
the day, and he was on stand one day and was asked about the fact that he had only produced and referred to one diary of Wallis's. And one entry talking about the quality call, but they were really referencing anything else it's like than they were prefacing. The fact that they had multiple varies. So the defence asked are the police in possession of the other diaries Larry. Do you only have on. He took three other diaries out of his coat pocket. Any just said these are business diaries kept by the accused and they were like. You can't just have that in your pocket. You can just take. Should evidence out in your pocket bro Well, you are like why, so he got frazzled because they were like what Eddie was like How do you not know that's wrong, said: there's an entry relating to a falling out with his wife on January, seventh, nineteen, twenty eight and they were like
Who are you not admissible because we, like you, may have written not yourself at this boy? Do so they in the defence was like. Ok One and tree works like we got in an argument and all of these like years ago, right and then it so then the defense was like okay motherfuker, because we have looked at the diaries, so he was like so defense was like okay December fifth, one thousand nine hundred and thirty You want to tell us about that entry that entry was attacked when Julia was coming home, late and wall. Was so worried about her that he ended up. Calling the police- and it said Quote- I went back home and found her ladyship had just turned up because he had gone out to look for her. Ladyship seems. A laundry ban Van had been smashed up on the railway line, the trend train derailed and the line blocked Julia, waited at Southport Station until after ten and no she had apparently no hope of getting a train. She decided to take a bus. She arrived in Liverpool at one thousand two hundred and thirty and reached home at one.
Was a relief to know she was safe and sound, for I was getting apprehensive fearing that she might. been run over by a motor car, something then they read the into didn't. They read the entry in court that exact thing. There will again to read this as they read it. He put his hands in his face in his hands. Above all cause, he missed her so much because he was partly sitting there being like here. I was that night thinking something terrible happened to her yeah and like look what happened right you know like in here, and I'm sitting here being accused very clearly loves his wife, so Wallis did get have his final statement in this. This initial hearing, I love wallets, he said quote: I plead not guilty to the charge made against me and I am advised to reserve, might have Hence I would like to say that my wife and I live together on the very happiest terms during the period of some eighteen years of our married life.
if our relations were have complete confidence in and affection for each other. The suggestion that I murdered my wife is monstrous that I should attack and kill. Her is all to all who know me unthinkable and the more so when it must be realised that I could not possibly obtain one advantage by committing such a deed. Nor do the police suggests that I gained any advantage. On the contrary. In actual fact, I have lost devoted and loving care comrade my whole life is completely broken up and everything that I hold dear has been ruthlessly parted and torn from me. I am now to face the torture of this nerve, racking ordeal I protest, once more than I am entirely innocent of this terrible crime. Oh my god, so he's literally I've lost my comrades. look. I've lost love my partner in life that is done and now you're gonna, throw me in fuckin prison. So the judge here listen says we're going to trial. You're shitting me nope
So remember the rumours that our are being brought into this whole thing are things like he was a false follower of Alister Crowley and he was also a sadness year for sure, with no basis here an opium act, a sex add act was fuckin every girl in town. He had her husband's all over him about it. If you have thirty three minutes, you never have to worry about a break at home. Ever again. That's how quick and easy it is to set up a security system from simply safe, it's a kind of Not so easy to do ash could do it, don't really getting you could do it during a network, spend watching the game or listening to a certain podcast. Maybe this one simply safe is just so easy to set up. I can't even like what's easier like nothing, I think it's the easiest thing you could possibly do varying two posts. Do I don't know but simply safe? I got it yeah dislike It's you put the camera up. It's just like literally, like blue blue blue.
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The press said he was barely Bang and his sister in law. Amy apps, looking to whole Amy was like now and I'm your brother. What the hell, then there was the added one that said she was very sick, Julia yeah somebody said while he must be must have found out. She had a terminal disease and he killed her to end her suffering. No doubt brutal away. I think so that the first thing I thought of and then, if you, if you read anything about these people who even came up the right to like youth, euthanasia is supposed to be like this peaceful spell experience. You end the suffering, yeah peacefully he's going take whatever he took legal fire poker and whale her for the head lunchtime, multiple time. No, I don't think that's how that way, a blood Bing verses, like yeah, it's just insane to me. I do so in the gas. So when it comes
to the trial Wallace needed funding to pay for his defence and he got it out of a lot of places of people were willing to give to his defence. I want to pay for that. Share his younger brother, Joseph, who was married to Amy beyond the sister in law, he's apparently having a very steamy affair race flick, while my brother pay for that, a few things that I'm a fucking affair with his wife exactly he he came forward and helped pay for it. I mean friends of his dead and then also his trade union came forward and pay first part of his defence saw, which is interesting, the pretence that Prudential Staff Union paid for it- and this is crazy because the executive council the union? Actually they didn't initially do it. They had a mock trial to see where they thought he would land lad and they can they, like we got away from her. They decided unanimously that he was innocent during this monster. While so they contributed a hefty donation to defend such also.
Interestingly. This is the first time a trade union did this for someone who is not on trial for like work in union related to the size of a totally different thing. They are nevertheless February nineteenth nineteen, thirty one the committee proceedings started, so this is basically so now that they have decided they're going to trial now sharing is so that they can tell whether the judge is just going to make the decision or jury is going to be involved in the trial. Just like several steps, so all witnesses were brought forward to the johnstons, all that chess playing guys the people he talk to on that. Like ill fated men love gardens Journey, my men, don't love gardens, but they didn't talk to any of the tram conductors. Who talk to him saw No they're schedules have record of their schedule ray and could give
a lot of information, I wonder why they than talk to those people probably cause they didn't want real information. Will that's any to me you could you could find these people it's not that they can't track them down another term conductors they have to go to work. You can just get them at work, they workin, they don't want. Their timeline fact know they have a very specific narrative they're going right and, as we will see, anyone who tries to have anything to do with them telling the truth they on here. But why can't the defence bring unlike the train conductors? I it's it's a loser, but I so weird process. So let her know even back then, like you have to agree on all the witnesses that are gonna be. I was like it's a whole bunch, a legal mumbo jumbo, but the poor situation really just rely, the on bull shit yeah, they relied on mixed,
oh and they relied on that conversation that Wallis had with baby when he was after he had been in the you. Ve been talking to the police in the police station for a while, yet Wallace came out, he met, he saw a baby and videos. I please don't talk to me about any thing. Is I'm scared and she was like? Can you just try to help me get closer to the seven like where that time was that greater called you just need a better time and when he was talking about this, he later said is, of course the police took this as he's trying to change that, languages. I know that you guys but D later said, like you know, I doubt and indiscretion arson and when he was meaning was I just nervous- and I shouldn't have done that we're out so I took, but of course they took it to analyse the so what
the prosecution said is quote now. You may think that the that that request to MR baby to try to remember the exact time of the telephone call and the subsequent conversation with the police rather suggests that the prisoner at that time, was already very much on the defensive. Why should he imagined himself in any danger? He this he's asking Why is he wondering whether use in any danger does he mean by saying when he was asked. What might have been a perfectly simple question of Mr Baby quote. I have an idea. We all have ideas. It was indiscreet of me if the facts are as the cure, as the crown suggests that it was indeed
greed of him. That was an admirable description of that conversation. There is one other curious feature about their conversation with MR baby. He said to MR baby that he had just left the police when he asked those questions, and he said quote, they have cleared me at that time. No charge whatsoever has been made against him. Certainly, nothing that had been said to him to suggest that they had suspected him and he was now cleared not at all That's bullshit that Dude Wallace was kept in police headquarters and and and interrogated for literally twelve hours. At a time where they want multiplier, Asia and being like hey. Do you often, worship Satan in your crazy mad scientist lab while you smoke opium and beat your wife like an NGO fuckers Sir LAW there they are literally being like you're. The only suspect we're looking at any one else. You did it. We know you did it we're going to prove that you did it of course,
when he leaves he's like shit. They cleared my colleague They don't even ask follow up questions on when he said like. Oh, I do know who could have done this and it was that the bloody baseball you do not want anything about. He was clearly. I suspect for him to write for this fuckin prosecutors. To suggest to these people died never saw sparked until that moment chat it's insane for Wallace to think that he was under suspicion is so beyond the realm of thought. Its Annette, like he's on Saturn somewhere, that's insane like I would, if I could never be in this fucking because I believe are you fucking guy, like I would have thrown out my shit, it's insane so they're going to trial, trial by jury so April, twenty second, nineteen, thirty one, the trial begins at Saint George S Hall in Liverpool. The judge is Justice, Robert eight or more rights, and he was a good judge and he does do he does his best in this trial.
give a tomb? Ok, but I will say it's interesting: he wanted to rush this a little bit because he had he was gonna be like and he had to be in court by like the next week, so he wanted it done like, Quick yeah, like let's rush through tat, is now just show you how murder trial Giles yeah so rich all Roland Oliver's, the head of the defence now, and he is awesome, ok cool, he does great and the new prosecution head, Booze Edward hammered he's the crown prosecutor. Ok he's a lot, he gives it to our opening state far. No one is sitting after my what eyes and he mediately chant. He went hard with that. He wore that coat over his clothing to protect his clothes. In theory,
and he changed the he's. The one who changed too, he was naked wearing only acone probably got off on it, because sex taught anything. Frazier totally went their love to kill people while naked. Now I've never even heard about happening. No there that's insane and that's it Marion same thing to suggestions here, especially with Ando. Evidently, are you real, so the price The commission opening statement ended with the quote without an apparent to me in the world. She goes to her account and if you think that the case is fairly proved against this man, that brutally and wantonly he sent this unfortunate woman to her account. It will be our duty to call him to his account now? Interestingly at I just thought it was interesting. He kept using his account her account his account out. I found a ton of Bible, verses and sermons that use that kind of language does account mean like later ass, I think like you're yeah, it just was like an interesting that its very bible, very sermon kind of thing to do. I don't
A few strained to appeal to a certain demographic here. What one in England is at that time too. Wasn't there no separation of Turkey s? I think it was. I think it was intentional three other than he got using than I just thought. It was interesting. One he's building his whole case that this was like sex related take Laszlo. I saw your right exactly. I think, he's trying to like really hammer that, so they brought baby onto the stand and when at last on the stand of quarters voice was anything like Wallace's they will. I couldn't even be that he was putting on a voice. He said no ok, and he said it would be a massive massive straw. For it to be his voice, even if he was faking it. It was turned nothing like his voice itself unequal. the beginning of a superior. Like oh shit, I know you like. Did he changes, but then oh no. Well then, James cared also confirmed that Wallace was not a violent man, so he was like this doesn't make any sense to him. He went on the stand to he called to make well placed
said the man, and he also said that Julian Wallace or quote a very happy couple I've never seen anything else now: they bring Alan close up. Is that delivery boy who they like scare, they turned aha, so he went along with the prosecutor story of course cause. I wonder what they and he was very, he was very like assure himself like he was having a blast up their cause. He's like fuck, I'm like yeah, like the police, like me we, like you, could tell he was just a year. Do the police wanted you to lie exactly well in so he's gone along with that he's gettin the positive attention from the prosecutor could seize answering all the things he has his story begging. this directive. So when the prosecutor started asking him Blake further. So then, when the excuse me, when the defence started asking further questions about multiple other children who saw who he saw, who saw him and who he actually, directed with that night? He started getting a little nervous as they did in preparing for the fact he started fidgetting and then his
voice, went so quiet that they could barely hear what he was saying, a care. He was yeah in fact, several times the judge was like, I literally don't know what you're saying like. I can't hear you, so he wasn't prepared. because of the story was given to him to be answered in the prosecutors favour by the police. Was it a note, the defence away laugh and started poking little holes in the story. He was not ready for that. They did not prepare him for that. Right, so he lied several times and was cotton lies several times he. fused himself. He conflicted his own statements. He told defense. He didn't know that the papers had said that Wallace had left his home at six fifteen, because I was what was printed in the papers. Then he told the prosecution file minutes later than he did know that so even the judge was like you just said, you didn't know that that's a lie: you're, not a good witness, so it was totally blown. This was a huge blow to the prosecution, which is always very blatant that this kid was
earned by the police, and now I feel really. I wanna be mounted him, but I also feel a labourer because he's a little kid he's forty and they ve Molly, like friends, family really, scared, the shit out of Umbria and, of course, he's gonna. Think he's like a tough guy get because you cannot positive attention ring of police from the prosecutors and then the defence comes up in his like hail blowing dropped. The hammer varies like oh shit yeah, so he got mixed up in like a really should either imported. So, Did I was day one so day, though they bring in the Johnston's ok, they didn't really have a ton with the Johnston's, because Johnson's or just like we were there. We told you our story. They both did agree, though, when they looked at crime scene photos, they were like all of the furniture has been moved in that coat, isn't where it was was, so they both were like that and, of course, the prosecutors like. What? What are you talking about that? I wasn't there like? No, no, we remain and they both agree. There are like they moved to match it. I would they move it to make it fit more. With MC fails version of events that so we're here
now? They also brought a clue: fuck D, I'm sorry. They also brought Constable Williams, who had arrived unseen early that day they brought him on stand. Didn't he calmly chip face. He was no, not him. That was more, although Williams was the one that he knocked on the door and MRS Johnston went to open it and she could open the door sure so then Wallace Gunnar reached over her and opened the door for and was like a got stuck yeah now Wallace had said that door was bolted and that's why it was an opening for her hand unbolted. So, ah, so what happened was both said so Miss Constable Williams and MRS Johnson said they didn't see the bolts. They didn't see that it was bolted, so they
couldn't say whether or not it was ok, not saying it wasn't there. Just like we didn't. I don't either way so either way it wouldn't open and shut Wallace opened it that day. For him this was kind and to bring to light the idea from the prosecution that the front door was not bolted. Like Wallis had suggested, it was that he was lying about that in basically there trying to put the whole in like you could have entered through the front door. That night, when you first arrived unseen by your lying, and you wanted to bring them around the back. It's like a little weird thing that they're trying to collaborate on here, but when they asked Williams there are like. Did you hear a bolt open right because he was like I heard fumbling on the other side of the door? Obviously they couldn't open So they really like. Did you hear a bolt being opened and he said no, he didn't hear about being open so that they took that as like boom. He lied is theirs
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Traditional offline counselling and financial aid is available. Better help wants you to start living the happier life today. Does it better helps outcomes lush, morbid, that's better HIV? p and during the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of experience, professional, in fact so many blood and using better help that there are creating additional councillors and all fifty states. This Bob cast a sponsored by better help and morbid at your crime. Podcast listeners get ten and off their first month that better help dot com, slow, lash, morbid. So in fact hammer it hammered. As I would have said, it was its yeah h, e m m e r d and almost looks like hammer day, but I'd say, hammered hamburger, hammered looked at the jury. One seems like you. I didn't hear a bolt open. He looked at the jury and said there. What did I tell you that there was a bags I wanna be. This kind of chaotic Gertie jury worry is like he's like new. He gets absolute.
Nothing out of them and then he's like see, boob jury. men and women gun? Did you hear that blood on his hand ass? He didn't he didn't hear it. Did you hear? like I'd, be like fuck, yet look. I believe this is also my baby. I don't know what's happening here. It's ok. I love chaotic energies, amazing, but Williams I have another moment he said initially, he was the one who got whilst statement at the scene and he said, and then I didn't sit down and write it down until hours later right now in it he said that Wallace told him. Julia had walked him out to the backyard and then in the head, like let him through the gate, and then she had walked back in to bolt the door when he left right. But Wallis said that's untrue. I never said she walked me to the gate. I never said she came out of the house and walked me out. I see
and she let me out the door, and that was it right now, when pressed William said quote, I thought of the probability that someone snuck into the home when they were saying goodbye at the gate. Ok, so this was- huge and kind of unintentionally awesome for the defense yeah, because now a police witness is suggesting Some one else could have snuck in while Wallace and then we're saying vitally right, he's literally being like someone. That's when someone could again in the door, she even walked through part of an alley with them. Yet so it's like this all was kind of like even the wallaces being I didn't say that my initially thy wall could on a works in your favour. Broth, let's go with it. It was this really. This is what so funny about this trial is like in all this weird shit happens. We're like someone is helping someone unintentionally right, said
and MC fail gets brought Morocco and it's a real shit show yeah, as you like on opium, now he's like a total showman. We, he loves the shit like use, leaning back lady I make no lying behind us, and you know the prosecution loves him, but then the defence rose to start their cross examination and like it he talked to the prosecution. He answer their questions. Nothing really super interesting or anything to simple shit. but then, as soon as they sit down and Oliver rises up to give his cross examination all this He's like wait. A second Buick interrupts, which is like what are you doing here he's holding a note, and he says that it's important insight he had gathered into the mental state of the person who committed this crime and he thinks it's important to tell you right now. Ok as you're about to start your cross examination, so when the judge was like what the fuck like when you got to do with any you don't submit evidence, sir. No way these again submitted leg. You can't do that yeah, you do you have
two long lie and re vote put that away so he's like shut up and let the defence ass their questions like the defendant. The judge was like. I am annoyed with you right now re, but it turned into a kind of a pissing match where hammered is being like no like this is important. We should say it and all of his like I need to start might like this is a literal start like if I was on that jury. I would have had popcorn. I would like to suck it also right, but All in hammered are just ignoring. The judge like just still talking and hammered is just goes we'll just give us a quick summary just quickly just a summary league literally being like say it say it say it get it out there, because, even if it can be brought into official evidence, say it out loud, the jury hears it because they can't get it. They can't wash it out of their airhole rate, say it so anyways on the debate. since time is on the defensive time. He quickly said he believed the person who did this was in a frenzy and now
that would make the jury see immediately, that the this absence of motive that they're trying to hold onto under defence, they don't need it You don't need that now, because, if he's in a frenzy right in native motive, o cool they loved each other, that's fine. He was in a frenzy right like that was all that. That was literally just two cup Oliver but oh, very valid. Well, that's. Things so they're saying there does need to be abode of all of that is moot. Now he just snapped he's just a frenzied Chris, see dude, that's what they're all whole thing is no motive needed anymore. We ve just taken that away. So then what did the defence still so Oliver cause Oliver's great with, like ok, dude You know that he has been under under mental a value of values in the entire time he's been in custody, yeah corrects and MC fail was like you. I know that any said Clia then, if this is the work of a maniac and he is
same person. He did not do that. Is that right, cause he's like you are saying this is an insane person who did this frenzied insane person. You just admitted to me that you know he's been under mental evaluation and he has been declared say right. So by that logic he couldn't have done. The sea is a sane person you are saying it is frenzied crazy person who did this is not the same literally saying he couldn't have done it right like apples and zucchini S, and he just answers here. Be saying now was it then he pressed impressed about it. He said he kept going. I've seen this exact thing many times I've seen it happened many times, but all Burgess demolished him. You have like now and he kept going on there. It like he kept being like no so you're saying that for fifty two years of his life here perfectly orient person without any hint of
mental illness or any kind of frenzy behaviour the fifty two years of his life then, in the span of twelve minutes, he suddenly lost his shit. Frenzied kill, his wife in the most brutal fashion, for no fuckin reason at all, with no nothing and then immediately after those twelve minutes boom like an angel Yemeni, seem completely until now like. If you had like a break in the end, he did he was frenzy when he killed her. He would be like a sad afterwards. I would think I don't think he would have a break and then immediately back in the same though I've never even heard of that he would have had immediately twelve minutes would be the only time this frenzied insane behaviour would have happened, delicate, usually lass a little that long and it is like the Johnston, show up and he's perfectly like
giving reasonable answers. You re having emotions seas, but he's got himself together like right now in Oliver CAP, pushing man and MC fail is trying to hang on it and even the address. Just like shut up, you gotta get off is sadly Roma. Suzanne all over just continues like harsher misdeeds, now a leg. Worse keeps do in it. He got him too. we admit, cause he cap, hammering him about that rigour, borders through how you like, ok, you are hindering this time, a death on that rigour. Mortis, really, you really put. There. He got him to admit that, although you should check the progression of rigour, mortis every quarter of an hour, to make sure that your assessment lines up with the progression and is happening because things can change variables, he said he every checked it. He never took even one note about the rigour mortis. There is not one record that he took of what the rigour mortis was what it looked like or any the progression
that's unreal, so he done do his job that you don't know what you're saying you literally checked it when you walked in, and that was that you never rejected you didn't see if it broke Utensia for progressed students. If a change you didn't see if the temperature is doing anything to it, nothing re know, and he was like wolves. Isn't that kind of fact any is like that verbatim isn't that kind of funny said that on the sand, unease like no, it's fine. No, he said now, naw, that's fine I tried effect so are killed him on that to read. I was just another blow like you, look like a fucking idiot. So then they bring up the clot, oh that Clotel man that clot really. So he Oliver like tricked him with this, which is fun, I'm a return again outposts, Alpo poised. I will file twice that oppose the court transcript, so you can really see like how
saw, goes down roots Emma. So First Oliver Ass about clotting of blood- and you know he gets that information. And then he says you know, and Mc Film admits that serum doesn't exude much in the first few hours. Then he said blood clots somewhere, but in five six or even ten minutes. That's when it starts clotting yeah, so Oliver said: if interfered with it would break up, would it not, and he says yes and Oliver says or splash? Would it not and he says he any in a he's like what, like, I don't understand, what you're asking me and all verses, let us say, dropped on a hard substance. I would suggest it would be at least an hour before you could take a cloth and drop it on, say a table without smashing it yeah. So MC fail says a clause would smash up even then, even after an hour, so all
Let me take a clot three slash sixteen wide and one slash eight of an inch high, which happens to be the cop that was found in the bathroom, the exact dimensions. I don't know if you're caught that well, that is fresh and newly clodded if you were to drop that on to say a laboratory plant repair, the fuck it would spread out. Would it not- and he says yes now at this point here it wasn't catching on road here, he's like a yes and Oliver says what I am putting to you. Is that would take at least an hour before a cloud of blood would be sufficiently solid not to flatten when it was dropped onto that laboratory pan, and he goes no, so you just Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and then you ll Avenger says no no, and he goes well how long the answer- and I guess he was like I kind of stumbled, and then he often discuss an hour.
So he didn't they saw so he got it's like a kid got going. I would have been one of those things we would have been my little brother erhard sooner than I would have lost it of the jury distance so funny. I was reading this shit literally just like throwing the book down and being like John. Let me tell you about how Oliver just own too big, fall and easily. Who are these people Johns like why and Emily the clock Raiment The Claude. I told you about the bath Germany's like no clear and easily afterwards. He liked out that so called like. What's for dinner, so Glad Oliver own to ninety? Let's go
for more bad ass, a book like yeah he's, I call chaise like please stop, though. He then asked about the possibility that the police brought that bought up their accidentally traipsing around rate and Pew Mc Fall agreed. He said he would accept that, as a possibility already getting somewhere than he was asked about is that when the judge is like so yeah like the judges is confirming like, so it totally could have been like the police bringing that up there. Now and he's like no It wasn't brought up by the police, and even the judge was like you just said it might have like the journey. I am losing it and he said well sure it was possible, but no police went up there. What that's That's such a lie. Yeah true at all got. It almost makes you question whether like your unlike what unwillingly
Is this the same case. I've been reading its documented debt, at least for police officers, went up there because they want. Upstairs also to account for the money that was in all the rags and officers Wallace. The Johnston's all went up there before that blood was found where it so that's a lie, so they just caught him in that too. In the judges, literally, like shaken, said, like I will declare like now I bill Euro and say this is not. My declaration would be not so detective superintendent more as the one that they pulled out of a pub to come to the scene. Our job, as you should face today to he said the absence of blood on Wallis's shoes actually wasn't a good thing for him was actually more reason to convict him because he didn't have blood on issues because
He knew where the blood was when he showed up and he just didn't step in it because he did it. So, of course you knew where the blood was saying in a separate. I dont understand my russian. I knew like Wowzer, that's it doesn't make sense. I hope you did some stretches before you took that fuckin. The EU has wholly so. He was also very combative with the defense. He didn't lot like being questioned. He wouldn't give them a straight answer. He would just do the yes or no. He would only at many times. You, like, I dont, remember I don't recall, That makes you a shitty witness when Oliver asked him about Wallace, he was like. Well, you too, you know, did Wallace and was he cooperative with the police, Initially, he was like no, he wasn't, but then Oliver was like well weird cause. I have a deposition from you right here. Can I read it to you? Oh my god, these like in that deposition. He says the exact opposite. He says he was very cooperative, very helpful answer. Our questions was there. We needed him.
so then his response to this. After being confronted with that, fuckin lie, he goes well like he answered our questions, so he was and then he goes operate and he was there if we had questions and he would answer I'm cool. What further hopeful man value we would like to know what did he do? That was uncooperative. It's only did you think we men like was he helpful, like did he? You know wrote hate all your mattresses, unlike lips, did he tighten up. All the loose piping in your house like did he did he touch up the moulding Nowhere literally asking you did he fits all we're saying your question: do you show up when you need them to click? Yes, it s okay, cooperation, so Oliver literally said, which is why I love Oliver. His response to this was you do not want to concede a point to the defence. If you can
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common use, promo code, morbid, that's be a b b. L duck conclude morbid for an extra three months: three babble language for life you bein a day three. How many days as the only three so randomly on day three? They decided to bring up and ran like the city analysed. This is like the frenzied expert, but he is not a medical professional. He is not an enemy, he is just the analysed like he looks seems all that twice a year. They basically we're like your testimony, is really not valid because you're, not a medical professionals, so they were like. You can't speak on medical things. You can speak on other parts of this, but not a medical thing. Sissy, that's not who you are so this guy. goes up on this to understand and he's like will guys. I did an experiment myself and I need to share the findings with of you can't says it's really pertinent, so
He said you know. I was really disturbed by that blood clots and the laboratories man in blood cannot at which, to which I say me to wake up same. We ve all we're all this year, our diet, the one the one they are exhaustively going over for no fuckin recent. You don't really has no bearing on anything, and he said quote when fresh blood drops from a height of fifteen inches, it forms a little clot and when that dries it clots together in makes it blob, a blog. So all I know is that the law every surrounding my blob. Ok, so Oliver said quote: you made these experiments to see whether a thing which you had never seen could be reproduced that's literally what it is like see didn't see that ok, let me at the street, so he was like yeah science like what's yeah, that's what I did so he was like. Okay, can we see notes on your experiment? Can like we see like the whole thing cuz, when you do an experiment you need to have
a whole delicate me up your hypothesis process here and he was like. Oh no like you, you can't see them and he was like. Why, though, and hugely out I didn't, take them and he's like right, so you did, do an experiment. So you literally didn't write, and can I see it a word you wrote down. Can see about urban Doc and he was like no. I literally did not record anything about this thing. I'm just telling you about it. So where's. This is bullshit with no evidence, no record no notes re, allow people who heard it, though after the stag round the telegraph stays with you. They were all like what the fuck doctors were quoted. As saying quote, he was the analysed who was able to make a drop of fresh blood rise like a souffle? Oh my god, and somebody who was part of the am the university medical staff, though the University of Liverpool Medical Staff said
the only explanation as far as I can see as to how Mister Roberts achieved cone shaped clots from drops of freshly shed blood is that before commencing his experiment, he quoted the rim of the pan with Vaseline STAR, like they were like that's Luke as it is you, anybody who knows anything about blood. That's just not true! You don't drop it! The where you drop at what high you drop fresh blood that has just come out of somebody's body that doesn't matter what height you drop it from it's, not gonna, clot cause, you dropped it from a height via its time. That's what clotting and it's like they're, trying to prove their turn to take away. That clotting thing were MC fail. to admit that it was an hour for your lot like tat and stay together like that, where they're trying to take that away and say well, he just did the state of the art experiment, this guy no notes any dropped it from fifteen inches and put it clotted, never seen that before
like magic, so people, I know he probably coded the fuckin thing with gas vaseline with gas with gasoline you might as well of and their elite that doesn't make any sense. It was just bullshit but and it was set out loud right and when we set out loud any like a back, you dont, not everybody, knows about blood ensured yeah. You can strangled shit from the record by, but you heard it. What are you gonna do so that was the prosecutions turn ok now Oliver gets to make his statement for the defense is now he's going to be able to bring up his witness. What his opening statement basically said was there's no motive here. They were saying you know this frenzy thing is insane because one he's been mentally evaluated this entire time and his entire for future years. He's never been friends, eater insane, but also it totally conflicts with all of these police officers, who have stated several times and were very disturbed, and so is MC fail
at how calm and collected and where he was so. Is it he's frenzy or is it he's too calm rule which one is it can we meet? We were in the metal oath and he kept saying it was like you can have both so they gotta pick one. They got either say he's a calm. Evil say annex serial killer or he's a frenzied Matt belly. Put that cake done. You can get it so and then also saying you know- there's nothing that connects them to the phone call the cultural phone call. In fact, people are saying it couldn't have been him rate the time time line. He just didn't have time to do this, not enough time to killer clean himself, go to men, love gardens, EAST or try to find it and then come home time frame. Discuss it just just doesn't make any sense is also no murder weapon and they searched everywhere and they didn't find one another site. That's a huge part of this invest and if it was Wallace, he only had a certain perimeter or a certain amount of locations. He could have stash that in because you didn't travel. He didn't have enough time to do.
anything else, they know all his location. The people who saw him when they saw and would have seen him holding something exactly now. He said at the end of his statement quote since the man who you are asked to convict of murder and this the man to whom I am now going to ask you to listen. Remember that in so far as statements were made of by him on not Tuesday night? If he is an innocent man consent what condition of mind he must have been in whether quiet as the police say, stunned by shock or whether sobbing went alone, as MRS Johnston says, if he has made a slipper to remit, Were the circumstances ya like his wife, was just brutally mattered, and I like that he like put that in their like. You cannot base this all on what people are saying. He act right, because if he is innocent, he walked in and found his partner of eighteen years brutally massacred in their larger Zoe
give him a break now wall, I said, actually slid a note at the beginning of this whole thing to his lawyers. That said quote: I wish to go into the witness box and give evidence just like Hell, yeah Wallace. Now he took the sand and He actually gave like more information than he needed to accuse trying to be very like a good way to have a good worker. So Oliver said quote: I mean I suppose I must put this question to you. I think it follows from what you have said. Did you lay a finger on her? Did you lay a hand upon your wife and all that night, and he said quickly in, I guess he just sat. There was like I think in going out the back door, I did when I often enough did I just patted her on the shoulder and said I won't be long
I can help you guys, like. I did, lay a hand on her. I put my hand on her shoulder and Oliver goes. I did not mean that many said. Did you strike courage? You do anything to injure her and he said. Oh, no, certainly not between us the purest so then hammered comes onto question. Hamburger tried to trick him and he tried to do this by Usually you will ask things in chronological order seat and get the real. You're, not sure. I events, I think it's kind of dirty pool till I tried a trick people up on my days by asking things out of order, because that's not getting real, information. That's just getting someone confuse wreck your just confusing them, you're, not getting actual, but he does I did. That was the way to go, so we started asking him things out of sequence such dirt, so he was like on Tuesday. Did you do that son Wednesday? Did you to this man will what about that earlier that Sunday? That was before all that
and he was like a no, so he did trip up a couple times, yeah like just being like wait Tuesday. I talk to this person like no. It was Wednesday like I care about, like he was just trying to remember things right, but He ended up being on it like he'd, he gonna shit together and handed up nodded letter, I mean a doctor's appointment this morning and she was like we have like tomorrow at Babylon Isaac. My had em like fuck what days Mara, but I have no idea what Martin I could never. I would belated one iota Windsor link. What did you do last Sunday? I believe what day is today like, I don't know he carried the tricks he was trying to do. We just work and work on him. He asked him about the quality call and his staff. washed over and over that. No,
and would have been able to say for sure that Wallace was going to be at the chest club that night he was, I got, no one would have been able to say like yes, I M going to be there because I was kind of flaky there. I know it just now. I didn't tell anyone besides my wife and Wallace in excuse me he kept hammering that though hammer hammered, he keep hammering so think so he says hey, so he says to him and of course Mr Quattro had no possible. means of knowing whether you would receive that call that night that he made to the chest club, because No one knew you were going to be at the club in so he says that is so says than he rang you up at seven fifteen or seven twenty, and with knowing you would ever get the message and without knowing you would ever go to men, love Gardens EAST. Apparently, he was ready waiting for your departure and he calls it would look like it
the keys are even trying again you're right, that's weird! So then he suggested that that was risky on culture is part using I'm not gonna risky that, like he, doesn't know if you're gonna get bad phone call glitter telling me like, he doesn't know and he's like yeah you're right in Venice we're like he's thinking, he's gonna get him to big. Well, you know, but yeah nobler and he's like no, the others. Risky Uruguay mileage in Dubai did you you couldn't rattle him like useless. I guess that's very risky, we're like I would you do. That turns a weird guy. I guess I don't know where you live of. Madame he's like I was a worked. I guess the like good on him. I suppose so. He then suggested to him that the wrong addressed a buckle him giving him that DR address it doesn't exist was just he was. I will listen, wouldn't that be like good for you, because it establishes your alibi. If you sent two men love gardens west you would just go to that address. That exists talked about one person and beyond your way, but because he gave you an address that doesn't exist you
two seven people who can now call say they talk to you, which is a fair question, which is a very fair play. And, whilst goes yeah you're right they'll be great alibi. What gives you like? I don't know what to tell you like yeah due to say because easily dude, I I would have answer if I had answers for you liked, I'm agreeing with you. This is weird rarely this whole thing is weird. Then they hammered him about why he went back home because he had mentioned after I couldn't find this address. I heard it was fake I've. He said we key quoted as saying I became suspicious and came back home. so they were like will you became suspicious because you knew what you did and he was like no now and at one point they said to him quote, I am putting
see that you had no reason to be suspicious when you returned home, because you knew why and he goes knew what a bay go. What exactly happened in the house and he goes how I know I can with trees like the nice. Try, so he's not even giving them this like. No there's no way he's like we're. How can I that my wife had been murdered like he's out even giving them like he's like you. Just don't make so he's trying to make him seem. Like will know. I you know I wouldn't know He's literally like will what like by? How would I know a break? I dont get it it's just. I love that he's just like totally childlike agreeing to re so hammered just couldn't get it he's being so cooperative he's just agreeing which is not helping him, but it's not hurting him as well. So it's just. I think that made the poor situations thing kind of route which is like fun. You put all this effort into any didn't, really get anything out of it. So then the defence comes up and they said
when you are playing the violin with your wife, a whore you accustomed to do it when you were naked and Mackintosh. Was that your habit? and they Julia modes like that, no one he says what was that and they said to play naked in the Mcintosh, and he said I have never played naked life yeah you like that is not my forte, and once again I pulled the. I pulled the larger out of the way I haven't done, then awhile some periods, I'd say so. I love that day. defends use that as a kind of a shocking like was it? Were you accustomed to play naked discipline, you fight with your life, and he was like what why? Because they wanted to go that real, my agenda item not him being like. Now we note like he was like what the fuck because they were like so you didn't play naked needs like no. Never in my life, then they brought all three of those kids, Matt, calf, Elsie, right and Kenneth cared up
and they all they all sat on the stand cause they were able to bring them up the prosecution and bring good they were. They all said that and told them he had seen Juilliard according to seven, none of them would you agree to this new story of his and were basically like he's lying yeah he's a liar. I like fuck that guide on it. Now the closing statements the judge spoke for an hour while the judge, while in this is part of what he said, the real test of the value of circumstantial evidence is: does it exclude every reasonable possibility I can even put at higher? Does it exclude? Other theories are possibilities if you cannot put the evidence against the accused man beyond a probability and nothing more is that exceeded. If that is a probability which is not inconsistent with there being other reasonable possibilities than it is in
possible for a jury to say we are sad, you cannot. It is possible for a jury to say we are satisfied. reasonable doubt that the charges made out against the accused man, a man, cannot be convicted of any crime least of all murder merely on problem ilities unless they are so strong as to amount to a reasonable certainty? If you have other possibilities, a jury would not- and I believe ought not to come to the conclusion that the charge is established However, you regard the matter. The whole crime was so skilfully devised, so skilfully executed and there is such an absence of any trace to incriminate anyone as to make it very difficult to say, although it is a matter entirely for you that it can be brought home to anybody in particular, so he's literally tying them, they have
proven their case. No! No, I don't want you guys. Still I go back and like I don't think that you should cause he's like you ought not to be any said. So he said if there is an unknown murderer, he has covered up his traces. Can you say it is absolutely impossible that there was no such person but putting, aside, as do not being the real question. Can you say taking all the evidence as a whole, bearing in mind the strength of the case put forward by the police and the prosecution that you are sir despite beyond reasonable doubt that it was the hidden, it was the hand of the prisoner and no her hands that murdered this woman. If you not so satisfied? It has not proved whatever your feelings may be. every year surmises or suspicions or prejudices may be. It is not establish as matter of evidence and legal proof. Then it is your duty to find the prisoner not guilty,
course. If you are satisfied equally, it is your duty to find him guilty, but it is your duty to decide on the evidence which has been given to you were given before you during these three days and whatever your verdict is that if the ass, tests, which you must apply, will you consider your verdict and say whether you find the prisoner guilty or not guilty? Well, that was just only part of it but it was as it was him saying they have proven their case. If use. If you can comfortably say that they have them by all means a guilty, but don't you dare go into there with your own prejudices and with reading the papers and with hearing what everybody said and say guilty yeah so They come back after an hour, gentlemen of the jury. Are you agreed upon your verdict? We are. Do you find the prisoner guilty or not guilty of murder guilty? how they found him
see how this jury was a fucking mess. That's how some of them fellas leap during the trial you kill me fell asleep said most of them are giggling at times they shouted things. Some of the women cried at times there was, We want to live like holding the lead because they brought like replica that, like iron bar, that they were talking about, could possibly have been the murder weapon great and they had them hold it to see how heavy it was they were like mock, hitting each other with pretending, oh my god, so something I like. I understand obviously like it's just the way things go, the jury's find people guilty, but I think if the judge doesn't think that the person is guilty leg, you take it into consideration. May now thank while in there was Your stories that came out later of jurors that came forward and we're like. Oh, I didn't think he was guilty, but we are threatened and intimidated by other jurors who were working with the police absolutely, and so this is
that crooked police, for it was a mess. Now he, as soon as it was read, he started to cry avi. because he's going to prison Lee was brought to Liverpool prison, he was stripped. He was put in prison graze because he was now set. To be executed. Seventeen days later, on my own May twelve, are you kidding so his lawyers are officially like appeal appeal appeal Oh Don t want nervous innocent man, so they were like so may eighteenth. They decided they moved his execution date and they decided to do the appeal. My dog, now three judges, we're gonna, determine after statements whether this appeal was valid during and before this churches were actually setting up things to pray for him, because that's how much people thought he was a gallery It was very divided, which is funny because he was Agnes. Stick and he was openly agnostic, unlike wrote in his diary, but churches were praying for. I wonder if he changed his mind. I just thought that was like. It does like a fun things nicer cause it's just like. What's right
No matter about your beliefs is just what's right and wrong. Now lack of evidence was cited, obviously, absolutely not enough to prove that he was guilty. They also said that the jury was clearly hostile and biased against him, like that was clear. Forty five minutes later The conclusion to which we have arrived is that the case against the appellant of which we have to carefully and anxiously considered and discussed was not proved with that certainty which is necessary in order to justify a verdict of guilty. Therefore, it is our duty to take the course indicated by the statute to which I have referred. The result is that the appeal will be allowed in this conviction.
quashed Linda they waited. He was acquitted like you. Is there anyone entire that rail? He walked out a free man, my God, thank goodness, say hopped out a free man, and there was a party at his insurance company in his honour. The people tried to set up funds to compensate him for his emotional damage. Is most people agreed in the pretty at the press? Pretty much agreed that this was the right thing to do today. it's like move out of town, though, because they are so well, but that didn't, unfortunately, he found that a lot of his neighbors and people. He thought we're friends had turned on em we started saying he was just lucky. He really did it. There's calling him a vampire sex, adding all those on a maniac. Although started coming right back up again, nothing and at first he was like fuck the haters like he didn't care, and he said I the live in my house because it's my home, like I'm living there. In fact, you to his lawyer. It is my home. What would the tell Tale
say if I were to accept a position elsewhere or even change my address to another district of Liverpool. They would say that running away. They would say that it was an index asian of guilt. Does it mean nothing that I was freed by the court of appeal, bright and things or bad when he returned and people in Liverpool treated him like a murderer like they would Lincoln, literally like run into their house. When you walk down the street and shed typhus, bad for him. He lost his wife and then lost everything and he was trying to stick it out and love really was asian and he wrote again to Monroe. He wrote after a while, he said quote there, the rottenness crowd I ever struck mean and poultry brained. I feel it is a wicked insult to Julia how she would have scorned this whole thing. People also show up at his home at while he's living there and their shouting Julia through the door aka, unlike whispering Julia.
Through the door and shit. That's fucked also trinity, souvenirs from his like murder house. While he lived there, you will like in my kids, are coming in their like making it like a game to go like touch like kind of one Lizzie boredom enter, I was just going to make our craft Joe became like a thing so eventually he just couldn't. Do it anymore? He's like this is not worth it. So he did move to a smaller the bungalow cause. That is like a prison in and of itself yeah, so he moved to North West England. He hired a housekeeper who also with someone who is going to like care after him. Cause use, This house was sailing, Rumours immediately went out that she was the woman that he'd kill Julia Forum. I like now, and and there was rumours that he was keeping a new wife locked in a cage in his new bungalow. He built a high fence around his garden to keep people out, and people said that he was.
During bodies there and just being naked and say tonic and whose gardens of course has one does. On August twenty fifth nineteen, thirty one he wrote in his diary to go about feeling that one is shunned by nearly everyone is a terrible ordeal and though I try to it down and ignore it. The whole business depresses me beyond words, perhaps after a while While I may get immersed in some new Hobbes to take my mind off of the terrible tragedy, what what I fear is the long nights on September, eighteen, nineteen, thirty one he wrote the last few days. I've been depressed thinking of my dear Julia, I'm afraid this will be a very lonely winter for me I seem to miss her more and more in cannot drive the thought of her cruel and out of my mind, so this four guys dealing with this fact on March twenty nineteen thirty two he wrote today. I have been very, very much depressed full of grief and tears. Julia Julia, my dear, why were you take
for me why? Why should this have been? So? It is a question to which I can get no answer, and I must fight this dread feeling of utter loneliness as best as I can So so so this is not a man to me who murdered his. Why no way now he his kidney issues were very much recurring. They were getting worse and worse and I'm sure stress as good as I stressful do such an. I got here, lobbying icing you and will that's what people dont get is like one people were going after him and shit like this, like he was acquitted yams, and this was one of those acquittal, you're like it like a Casey Anthony, you know me where you're like that mind: boggling motherfucker did it. It's like. This is one of those things like there. There was literally not a shred of evidence, not even a murder weapon, but what it is about people just like drove amounted and kept till the very end like didn't care. It's insane and its. I feel it twenty twenty one like where it's the same kind of thing. Over now
of the internet where people twigs at one or two you and it's just insanely people dont think of other people's mental health. They don't give a shit, they don't care they're mad about something they're gonna destroy you just sex I allowed for while I think, one of the most important things that, like you ever hear, is like you never know what anybody else ecologically exactly and I feel we people have lost that. He will have absolutely left because, honestly, I don't think people care no and sad. It is its into bummer. It's got it turns We have actually so February. Nineteen nineteen, thirty two he was brought to the hospital for emergency surgery. He stayed there bedridden until he died February, twenty fifth nineteen, thirty three, his last words were turned his nephew Edwin and he said do good with
life those or his last words. Of course they were because William Wallace as the purest soul and he was buried with Julia Good, and somebody told me how to say this and fields. I think it's an field, cemetery, rigorous somebody from England, told me how to say it, and I tell if got sums are in the same cemetery with Julia Good. What would be insane as if he did kill her? That's real fox it was buried with her. But you didn't, I mean I'm never been more chauffeur have Swindon IP did not now just too quickly and here I can remember Richard Gordon Perry like that of the thing out where to go. I think he's a good suspect for this. Several people said that they believed that he would murder some. And they wouldn't be shocked, so people who knew him we're like. Oh, that wouldn't shock me if he murdered someone while and two years after the murders. Here ex girlfriend lily, Lloyd, reached out to Hector Monroe, the defence attorney and,
he's she said, I just can't bear it anymore. My conscience is killing me. She said I lied in nineteen thirty one while being with Richard that nice girl said, I will sign an affidavit to that effect. Are here I'm a spell the tea for you now ver lie for man. Don't now lie for man don't ever live. Or a man we don't tell lies per man, don't do it widely good for Lily Lloyd for coming to me, don't lie in general guidelines. Definitely don't do this shit. Don't do shipper MA am glad she came forward, but like damn near so here's the thing he so richer. Gordon Perry was at that cafe that this, just thing was happening at a lot because he was finally drama troop that would meet at that cafe sure he would have done so in he knew Wallace. Obviously from work, though, falling out. He would have seen Wallis on the schedule for that nights matches if he had looked so that
old thing. They were sitting at of nobody knew you were there. So how would this call trow call and think that you were there You did, it doesn't make sense. Richard go parry could I've seen him on the schedule. I there I mean why you have a bloody baseball in Europe. Are the only person, besides the chest, players that were there that night that couldn't have called career or their rights? That would know he was there this guy is the only other one. You don't go to a car wash at midnight and like demands that it your car, be cleaned today, so people think he's stayed out. The house watched Wallace leaves made. The call and killed Julio, because he knew Wallace was now sent far away he knew that sent him to get him out of the house for as long as you good, that's so nuts. So then people started saying were Perry and Julia having an affair because they were close. I guess and like she didn't like him there
there was that whole thing that they were like or was there some weird thing we're like? Maybe he had something without it was just a weird thing. I think I was just a rumour yeah, but then this also could adjustment revenge on Wallace spreading him fire. I think that's recesses guy had a super temper. He was violence, use prone to the shed their motives. Those motives here absolutely now in nineteen thirty, two. Interestingly enough, Perry was caught sitting in someone else's car. Stealing it so use brought to jail. Then in nineteen thirty two for he went to jail and was sentenced to three months for car jacking, someone in nineteen thirty six. He picked up a woman, Lily Fitzsimons Brow her into a secluded locations, sexually assaulted, her and then the charges were dropped. Oh yeah he's danger. It was an alcoholic, his whole life, a violent alcoholic in people based. We just called him a deck and his family said he refused to discuss the murder of Julia Wallace. He would not talk about it,
in your allow. Take let's wake up hell I drink it lets retroactively anything! It's weird. I think it's worth looking into now. This is the oldest open, cold case at their mercy. Sides, police, department, oats open, is still open that, while not enable cause he was acquitted. They have no one on this day in that very abridged version of the murder of Julia Wallace while and I tell you tell you tell you read that book, reed output, greed, that but I'd has so much cool shit and it would have bunkers case. I don't think it's the though I think he did it cars that a wilderness naming and richer Gordon Pair yeah Perry did. I think he had something to do with it. I know for a fact William Herbert Wallace did not do I agree while, while let us know it, you are staying in
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Transcript generated on 2021-07-01.