« Morbid: A True Crime Podcast

Episode 233: The Smiley Face Deaths/Murders Mystery

2021-05-16 | 🔗
Since 1997 young men have been disappearing for periods of time and then turning up in bodies of water. Upon first glance it’s easy to brush these off as accidents, young men drinking too much and slipping or falling to their deaths: sad but not unheard of. It was in 2008 that Kevin Gannon, Anthony Duarte, Mike Donovan and Dr. Lee Gilbertson presented a theory to the world: What if these cases aren’t accidents at all? What if there is some kind of gang spread across the nation, picking these guys off 1 by 1. Insert the name of the case, The Smiley Face Killers.   As always, thank you to our sponsors: Upstart: Find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today when you go to UPSTART.com/MORBID CareOf: For 50% off your first Care/of order, go to TakeCareOf.com and enter code morbid50 ThriveMarket: Join Thrive Market today to get $20 off your first order AND an exclusive FREE gift! The ONLY way to get this offer is by going to Thrive Market.com/MORBID Embr: You can save $50 on either product by visiting embwave.com/Morbid
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey weirdos, I'm and I'm away, and this is morbid. In truth, teller. here. We also have a wind stand in no hurry to say anything about it, but like as soon as I was like. This is morbid. The one was like what was it like Thank you, sir. I just happened to leg gaze out the window. As I said, the leg, hello and then I was like. Oh it's an actual windstorm out his Alec there's trees like bending over you know, what's scary, is right behind my head is like a very large tree and like whenever it's windy, I'm like one of these days, I'm probably just going to die in this seat while reporting about like something else and then I'll cover it
That is not necessarily. What about the murder? Yes, hello, it's an ash, centric episode- and I think I was a little technical glitch in the listener- tells episode this week. Sorry about that I know legal everybody in we in it is like it's been awake alike, who highlights very willing to take a cake it through people? Nothing even like. Actually, back happened. No, it was a series of very stress, all annoying event, weird like fuck ups. and failures of just had nothing huge, nothing that was like, but you know when things and am sure everybody it like. You get me right guys like everything. Yet when everything justly comes together in the machete way like everything you try,
they do during the week. You just fail at sea. The new moon is exposed to bring like new beginnings, but I feel like it had a little bit of like damage to clean up like a first week after the new moon. I guess we just had till I get through all the shit like the last moon we had sweep. I got an ailing yeah, it's it's, a gift swept, but the Newton vacuum hopefully were cleansed either. We are after this week because I've been even leaked intellect, are you know every thing. It was like we tried to do scream at this and we and I got it all messed up. We just like everything was messing up. I don't know it was everything you know. Was it's a new weak soon so where that we're telephone, good tonight? Even tonight I think tonight's the start of something new there you go and I think the only other thing I wanted a kind of like mention before we start was. The Tristan Bailey case on us
holy hell. It's of everybody, I'm sure you ve all heard about it. If you haven't definitely look it up cause it's insane and it's happening right now, it's horrible! We are going to cover that case, but we want to see it through to the end. So I we want to make sure we we watch. This whole trial We want to see I'm someone charge extra, who go on a single one. You know I do like. Officially. We want everything to be kind of buttoned up a little more because things in the beginning, when you start to read articles like one article will say this and then another article will say this and then this other one we're here said that less persons abyss and you laugh, but why what the truth is. Just not enough information out right now for us to feel comfortable reporting about at visa. But we do want to acknowledge lake thou. Then our hearts go out to her family. You can imagine truly, and you know what it is: It's really showing the double edged sword that social media Being a social media can be this like beautiful thing that can help solve cases. It can do awesome
and bring people together together, all the cells himself, and then it can be the worst fucking invention and member came about in humanity. And we see this when a picture is posted on a news website of Tristan a thirteen year old girl who was murdered brutally NEA and some of the comments on there. I can our thinking tat honestly, you look at them in your like. Well, there you are future murderer linkage, just there, you are we're all seen it happen. It's like you have to be a despicable person to say some of things. I was seeing seriously like people sitting there saying she deserved. She shouldn't one that it's like. What does the humiliation of origin is a baby literally, I can also use a shot, is a uniform that she was wearing she's, also a child who was murdered. I don't give a shit. What she was website has nothing to do with it now and then the other It obviously has to see that that so far, all these, like kids, that are like making instant
I'm about it saying further miles in shit, it's like where what is going on raised. Well, I was just going to wear your parents. Like my kids, I'm gonna monitor their fuckin social media until they're like eating years, all tell yet my kids like into forever Godspeed to the biggest, but it's also just like who how how does that happen a year, how does your brain work that was never once as a child? Did I ever be like it would be really fun to harass the family of a murder child, like they d, never entered my mind as like? Oh you know, it would be fun to do, and it is it's a really blows I am so sick of it really is a really is we ve been following it like very closely. We just wanted to let everybody now, because I know a lot of people were, like you know, J, like tagging, ass being like we gotta cover
So we have to have it out in a well. It will be covered because you know Tristan story should be told, but we want to just make sure it we wait for it to get a little more clear, we and tightened another picture in a more fuller picture of. What's going on so we will be covering that eventually, the knowledge. You know, you know be nice online guy. You know it. I know no one listening here. Does that shipowners go on common, something someone's picture you just go to the nice still go, make surrender kind. I pay for the person behind you and the drive through yak as yet my favorite. I hope I may go right. I love what is behind it, but I have the honour please I like you, see like a nice, even just something- ass, simple, ass, like ass. I think I tweeted about how our weakens mentioned and the amount of people that we're just like yeah me too. I haven't a shitty, we too, like hopefully, both must get better high five languages like life. One hears that thing I think sometimes even I do this like I'll, go to say something like nice and among whom they may think. That's weird if I say that
I'm just gonna not say that's like you fuck it. Who cares and think that your we're just spread positivity in nice and, as you know, what nasty people never think twice about what they say. They just shoot off at their fuckin mouth and they don't care. They're gonna run some and you never know if you know what don't think twice about being too nice cuz. You never know if that person, like your comment, is really going to is going to help it up better, exactly as it says it works, but there's our little say about internet applicable at all of the above, the I was at the trysting stuff that just like really gimme a really sour taste in my mouth. He led her at. It unfortunately has we're going to see what this case than covering to actually yellow just said way right into the worst kind of people. Now the absolute where's kind of people
the people that we just don't know it was gonna, say an unknown people who now this isn't even like an unsolved. It's a kind of an unsolved cases is very confusing. You know what we're here for as the episode time. It's a smiley face killers and I have done nothing but like watch smiley face killer documentaries for the past two weeks, read every possible article that I could ledge like asked her. If I could tell him, terrifying things in this case and he was like, please don't maybe call Alina, but that I was like no cause. I can't tell her everything has been a hint surprised and I was like an also I already did So there's that so we are covering a smiley face killers phenomena. I guess you could call out, but not like what is happening. The mystery, it's crazy
because it sends about nineteen, ninety seven in various parts of the? U S there have been hundred's like. I think the number is up to like three hunt over three hundred now of all these cases, but they think may be associated with this and its young college. Men just ending up dead in water somewhere on a lot of these cases have been rolled accidental drownings, but a lot of people do not think the case- and I am one of those people I can't stand- are you a little bit in the middle I'm a little in the middle? I can see both sides some younger, to see what, after this month, because I'm biased one is all just get that arrive at length. I definitely think that this is a killer for an ominous administers day in my in mine and my middle line here and I'll see. Yes, he high Philip. Yet I also think that this is gonna be part. This can, we part, do isn't it meets two parts but each victim shares some kind of similarity with the next. In these cases it's usually like a pretty soon
that's swell guy who's in college. Making honours are like a promising young athlete like these kids have everything going for them and their whole futures ahead of them, but it somehow. After a night out with friends, they end up separated from their group of friends, and they end up in a body of water seemingly having to like fallen in the water after drinking too much but then kind of look a little more into that and it doesn't really make sense. I mean so far what seems like it could be ass. It could be haven't told you anything of important debates. So, sadly, In the: U S alone, there are thirty five hundred to forth drowning deaths per year and men make up eighty percent of that number, while not crazy, but center ass. I know so it's really not that uncommon, but what's weird about the victims that will focus, and those thought to be associated with this strange thing. That's going on is that their found
when their found in the water things don't end up between like where they were supposed to be, how long they would have had to travel from point a to where they supposedly fell in the water and even like the level of decomposition of their bodies. The level of decomposition in these different cases that I'm gonna present to you as bananas. So let's get it over. That's what I'm really interested to hear now and I'll So a ninety. Ninety seven there was a guy Patrick Macneil. He was one of the promising men unfortunately found dead his body was in the EAST River in New York City. He had been. Two Fordham University. It was his junior year and everything was going really well. All of his professors absolutely loved them loved him. They thought that he too great work. He had a really good
group of friends- and he was known to be someone who, like really wanted to put their best but forward at all times, like his friends, used to make fun of women, be illegal, carry ready to go out yet when relevantly deal a good, yes, Morgan, your hair, a great on airs, perfectly laughed. Ok, let's go love it, When it comes to paying off, then they can feel like an uphill battle. I interest rates resulting in minimum monthly payments, keeps you in an endless cycle of debt. Upstart can help you get ahead. Upstart is the fast and easy way to pay off your debt, with a person alone, all online, whether its paying off credit cards, consolidating high interest credit card debt or funding personal expenses over half a million people have used upstart to get a simple, fixed monthly payments. Unlike other lenders, upstart looks at more than just your credit score. Like your income in your employment history, this means they can offer smarter rates with trusted partners with a five minute online rate check. You
see your rate up front for loans between one thousand of fifty thousand dollars. Woe baby! You can receive funds as fast as one business day after accepting your lone Wolf baby Times to find out how upstart and lower your monthly payments today, when you gotta, upstart dot com, slash morbid, that's upstart outcomes, Osh morbid dont forget to use our? U r l to let them know he sent you want. Amounts will be determined based on your credit income and certain other. Information provided in your own obligation go to absurd tat comes much more. He also had dreams of working for the FBI some day and he was definitely smart enough to make that happen. Mile yeah, greece- and I know so on february- Steve ninety ninety seven Patrick in some friends, decided to go out for the night. The bar that the forum, kids love to go to around that time was called the dapper dog and it was in Manhattan, the Dep, a dog adapted oh George, so that's where they decided to go out got night pretty quickly, though Patrick was like not feeling good
and he ended up having to run to the bathroom and get sick and healing ended up throwing up in the bathroom. But it was weird because he hadn't really drink that much, especially for how sick he was getting and how disoriented he was becoming now once he finished throwing up in the bathroom. He found his friends and let them know that he was gonna head back to Camp it's really unclear to me. Why, like no one was like I'll go with you yeah, like you're, obviously sick yeah, and I did read that he was waiting outside for one friend to come out, but they just like never came out, so he was like okay. I guess I'll just go on my way, so plenty of people saw him after he left, and believed tat. He was making his way to the subway. He was still throwing up like on the street and was very unsteady on his feet. He was falling into cars. He was like stumbling around. I really don't so my nobody helped him one witness,
ah him walking and noticed that a previously double parked van was slowly trailing him her and at one point Patrick actually fell to the ground and when he did this, the van came to a complete, stop many got back up and got started going on his way, and so did the Van witches super. We are now as this one eye witness Agnes yeah. I guess I just wondered about we're just out of fear of itself when he got back up, he made his way to the end of the street, to turn on to EAST ninetieth and when he turned the vandals too and was the last time anyone saw Patrick Macneil alive. Again, I mean sounds creepy super creepy very creep. Now. Allegedly witnesses are one man and one woman in the ban and actually able to get part of their license plate, oh so that super. Right. Very yeah, like you could We do some undesired if he wanted to spend the money on it.
The head of the missing persons department didn't really want to do. It's called a law, man search and what that would have done is like basically complete the plate number by using all possible combinations and matching up to like a man like behind a car. I make and model exactly, but it will cost like twelve hundred dollars at the time, and you know I'll spend money on it, so you just listen Why do that Y Y? All the potential murder case? That's it! That's not what people want. No, but it's like people, though one thing solved, know enough. We want the MR exactly this therefore so it would be two months before Patrick Macneil body was discovered in the EAST River in New York City on April. Seventh, ninety nine ISA now they were able to recover his body near the owls had water pollution control plant, which was more. Twelve miles away from his last no location of the fact that he was found in that
specific location didn't really make a lot of sense, with the way that the currents were flowing. But honestly that was like the least sinister thing about the discovery of his body. Here's what we're gonna do. I'm ready for the sinister such Asian, usually drowning victims, as you know, are found in the water face down like most of the time. Look there. Obviously things happen work, that's not always like thought absolutely now. This was one of those cases, Patrick recovered on his back, but there was no evidence of liability in his back area in the autopsy photos. So I guess you could say at the same time that the conditions in the water- maybe flipped him around an opposition which is fair but wait. A second cause, there's more Patrick, seem to be like really intoxicated while walking down the street like he was literally stumbling, but then, when they tested his blood alcohol concentration, it turned out to be point one six which, like ok,
and the body and because the body naturally produces more alcohol in the process of decomposition, it was fair to assume that his actual what alcohol content was point one to okra resell like that's, not super, drunken all! That's about six! drinks, which for me and you would be like super duper drunk, but he was a hundred ninety five pounds and six feet tall. So he was like a big do so, obviously like it's minutely, drunk but not drunk enough to be in the state that he was unlike you was six drinks to me sounds like a lotta drink. see me too, but it's like he's super duper Ptolemy. When I think about going out with my guy friends that, unlike Ville, throw back like three business in a couple hours to judge, because it's always based on like waitin. You know right so yeah, that's weird
It sounds like a lot, but maybe some of our deeds are like taller. Women can weigh in here where my deeds, where my do Junta women, I yak, as I think about it, normally Johns like six foot, three or four, and that I think that would probably not I've never seen unlike that, drunk not falling over the growing up and everything I don't know it just seems weird. So a lot of people were like was he drugged where it says like there was something a little like a kindly goofy situation, yeah also seems as though there were some kind of ligature tight around Patrick's neck at one point, because the medical eggs, notes in the autopsy report. Quote circle wrenching around the neck. There is a pattern which consist of numerous vertical lines, evenly spaced about one sixteenth of an inch apart around his neck and a pattern as if to as if to suggest some type of binding, that's interests and Woods Lake. Ok, then, why was it rolled and acts that DAS very interests?
Super duper weird. The autopsy also notes that there was severe blackening around the head in the upper torso and the matter bill, examiner surmise that this was because of not only advance De Camp but also an extended period of exposure to the elements. However, a team of retired detectives and one Doktor Dixon ok now, Kevin Gannon, Anthony tone, You are MIKE Donovan and Doktor Lee Doc Gilberts and make up the global death investigations. Team They are so bad they all agree that, after looking at the autopsy and having another set of super professionalized, look out at too that the head to waste blackening on Patrick's body was due to burning, not exposure of the elements real. because the areas where the skin was blackened were not what you would expect from an exposure to the elements, and especially not water, usually
when bodies are found in water, as you well know, there, bloated yeah and the blackened skin that was on Patrick, had contracted ok, so issues like which really weird we asked like. We usually do our claim Angolan heat. Yet exactly now, Doktor Cyril whacked agreed with the teams theory and he's like a super super famous pathologist that the blackening skin was in fact due to burning to the point of skin charring lie. Yeah and together. They all agreed that it looked as though Patrick had been bound by his neck to a chair while being burned and that he was alive when this occurred. What the fuck in saying now, there was in a lot of charring around the back area, so they believe that his back was pushed against the chair. When this all happen- and there was like
lower right of marble, hang around like where his pants, but have been, which is a sign of like a kind of stopped there, because the hands was was just going right to that point exactly so lake. Why? Like that's apps, Hulu terrify Asia. Now they noted something else of importance too. If the top portion of Patrick's body was black because of environmental factors and decomposition, then why were his feet not equally. Deep of always gonna be. My question is like, but why wouldn't the lower virus? the lower programme be super decomposed I mean that's. The preserve cedar expose exposed in the water and over a period of like fifty, he's he's bananas, water, like some like you're gonna, have slippage right up. You know no signs of slippage whatsoever, which is not only uncommon, just like essentially unheard of in cases like this, where a body has been in the water. For that long. This one sounds like murder, so if that's the case was Patrick on land, for some of the time that he was missing. Yes,
like it. That would certainly seem to be the case, especially because there were fly eggs found in the groin area of Patrick's body now for or doctors, including the pretty famous forensic pathologists, like I said, Doktor Cyril, whacked and Doktor, Richard Gents, who is from the body farm yup. They agreed that its highly unlikely these eggs were laid while Patrick's body was in the water, and yet it would have been far too, cold in New York in the middle of February, and water like the water would have been even colder out, one hundred or so it just it wouldn't have happened, and especially like from them from body farm. They know we were when the you know like they know the odd they tests. All the different conditions moving is seen every single different condition limits like silver them to say that to be like yeah. No, I don't know that's how that works like you can trust, and they were too or doctors? They all agreed that like no yeah, it's just that. Doesn't that doesn't jet lag viable,
doesn't drive, or by doesn't do any of it now having again and actually was one of the original detectives on Patrick's case back and ninety seven, and he the one who set out on this mission till I figure out what happened and Patrick because he promised his parents pat Senior and Jackie Macneil, that he would find out who murdered their son and bring this person to justice, those poor people and he has spent the past twenty four years trying to keep that promise to find out. Not only what happened, Patrick, but these countless other young men that I've been talking about because they're all dying under pretty similar super suspicious circumstances? Now, unfortunately Patrick death still remains listed as an accidental drowning to this day. All I have no idea leg. The ligature thing really is like the little thing makes absolutely no satin and for the the medical examiner, the pathologists tooth a in the thing that it appears he has been bound by his neck right.
then to list at an accidental drat like well. Only thing I can think of is it's like he was in the water. Is he thinking that, like he got like caught like them? I m cunning cause immediately when you first brought that up. That's What did I tell you already have had me was like well, if he's been in the water along time, maybe got caught up in something like a net or something's Acta and it pressed into his neck, and that made it look like that needs and then the current right up the mountain, but stand you sorry for my computer, but the unlike talking with my hands, but then you have that and then you have everything else when you put all its like, when you put all the rest of the puzzle, pieces together doesn't makes yeah just the veto, the darkening on the top half of it, body and that did not get no slipper ash and fire bought us banded, no slippage in the water. For that long. I've been further these experts to be saying leg it these. This is burns not just plain old DE camp right, that's interesting right and without our interests that the body wasn't bloated, because I
wait. You and I have talked about like a couple like bodies that have been fun watery. I outlined me like think about how you feeling killings worthy at like she was. She became She will never so long and it's like, of course, Temperature Lincoln can mess around with things Spinelli leg decomposition really is dependent on temperature in England. We know this was in the middle of like the freezing part of the of the time of year. Right, but I don't know- but just when the other factors it's just like in the higher the fly- the eggs, the eggs, that was a letter sent me. That's very interesting and impart to we're gonna get till. I get another kind of like insect. look a little more into that you're gonna, be the irony told you some of it, but I tell you all about you're gonna be like ok, I'm convinced! Ok, what did was there and mention, and maybe there was a big events like they don't release everything we do. any mention of like hair. Unlike was it charred,
I suddenly any munch mention of his hair. Unlike what I looked through cause the I couldn't find the autopsy report for him. I know I'm dying to read it. given that I want to know, but I can I can answer that import to. If I find to be at the end, we will try to find it because I'm interested to see if, like the hare, gave any kind of indication of fire as well. It's funny that won't fight, for surely about what happened by its funding that mentioned hair, because that comes into play in one of the next victim of that's funny yellows, we all those things really gets it I mean just said waiting for you. Thank you. So much now, just one year after Patrick's body was found, another young man was discovered dead. Having drowned after a night out with his friends in the previous part, is that he was found in almost the exact location where Patrick was found a year earlier. This man was Lawrence. He went by Larry Andrews. He was twenty two years old and he was from Brewster in New York. Now like most of the victims, will talk about. He was a young college guy with a bright future ahead of him,
He had taken the train into New York City or gives me had taken a train into the city on New year's Eve and nineteen eighty seven to go out and celebrate with his friends in Times square talk about care, all of care of products are formulated with good for you, clean ingredients that are backed by science and care of a super transparent about the research and sourcing behind each one of their products. one of my favorite things about them. Your recommendations come in daily individually, wrapped package that are perfect for getting back into or starting a new routine studies show that it can take about thirty days for you to see the benefits of a new supplement routine. So consistency with this is key. This is what you're gonna do: you're gonna log on to care of, and you're gonna take their in depth online quiz gonna ask: questions like hey girl. What do you eat? Hey man? What's your lifestyle like hey, you got me:
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order. Gonna, take care of dot com and enter code. Morbid fifty amendments, fifty percent of your first care of order, gotta, take care of dot com and enter morbid fifty at somebody, They all watched the ball job, but after that he got separated from them and people did so. in a bar near grand central station and said that he appeared to be drunk but not incoherent, so strange that just like an Patrick's case, Larry's body was found about twelve miles from where he was last seen. for the same location where they were found, but like different locations before they were. That's really interests light like just about twelve. My life seemed dump site yet super weird. Now Kevin Ganem and Susan Andrews Larry's mother agree that Larry's death was no accident and definitely not a suicide. It was far too
Similar to Patrick's case and Larry was not known to be suicidal at all. His sister was a just about to get married, so he was looking forward to that and he also had upcoming plans to go on skiing trip now the more and more coven started. Looking into these cases, he was realizing that there were more than just similarities between the victims, but also the areas in which they were found in May. cases smiley faces were being graffiti nearby, where the bodies were discovered, and you can argue again devils advocate That smiley faces are like very pursuit of economic em. I mean I could go outside right now in poorly fine five thea by it definitely felt like more than a coincidence, to detect again- and at least it's interesting say, it is- and you know what it's not at all of these sites- that it is important to know like I'm gonna, be totally transit. Why? Because I d smiley faces like a little bit. Much firm, in my opinion, yeah it's it's interesting yeah
it's something to take note of yet look. I'm gonna take note of it every time it's there by it adds an element of like theatre. It does one thing is for sure and I think that's why people grow like How do I beg which I get? I know we all want a like see that, like you know, oh there's a smiley face at all the crimes right, but who knows you never know now we're going to talk about how reliable this team is, because, obviously, when we know that the people investigating this or like in it for the right reason, yeah so? Kevin Gannon and all the members of his team are very reliable sources. Kevin worked on the Nypd for twenty years and during this time on the force he received over a hundred medals, while including two metals of valor for heroism in the line of duty. So he's about ass, motherfucker, He also was in charge of the Bronx homicide task force for three years. Damn Tony do art another part of this.
our team was in love enforcement for a total of twenty one years. He also received many metals four things such as excellence and police duty, very, very reliable person. Mike Donovan worked with Kevin Antonia for twenty years as he has also worked on hundreds of homicide cases. He actually worked on the elite, special anti crack unit of the organized crime, Control Bureau and fun fact not like fun fact, but he was a first responder in nine slash eleven. oh yeah, so again, very reliable horse and the final member. This team as Doktor Lee Gilberts and who goes by doc, which I love he has appeared, the in Souci ology, with focus in gangs in substance abuse. He is a certified gang specialist and also a three time recipient of the Frederick Milton Thrasher award. He wanted in two thousand to two thousand five and two thousand and eight and he is also an executive editor for the Journal of Gang Research all right so there
their qualification right up. The right now down gather a bunch of us, as you gotta watch that document that I'm and talk about the second area, because in two thousand eight this team decided to go public with their theory for the first time about the smiley face killers. By that point, they had about forty cases across the: U S that they believed to have been connected, although, like I said there are hundreds. They believed that there was a gang of serial killers working together across about twenty five major cities which it scarcely enough are mainly on the east coast. They are you not awesome from not awesome and, of course, they believe that their targeting young, smart, athletic and typically white college men. It seems the Emma was to somehow pick one of these men, while they're out drinking with friends and secretly drug them once their separated from the group. They would be kidnapped and at this point they believe likely held for a period of days and probably tortured to some degree, obviously based on what we spoke about with Patrick and then disposed in a body
water. The gang would then spree paint, sometimes a smiley face near by presumably to like tag the area being like hey, like other gang members like I did this one here, a girl, tat kind of thing. And in twenty eighteen, like I was just saying, a doc. You series appeared on oxygen, called Smiley, face killers, the hunt for Justice holy Shit, stop whatever you're doing. I bought the whole thing on Amazon. It was like eleven dollars like Alvin Matula, Mr Andrews getting I won't let them had slipped by the serious, followed the team around two different cities where each of the victims families was interviewed, and then the evidence was gone through again with a fine if com usually showing that the cause of death did not line up with what the body and other evidence told the investigators and one of Kevin get major point and points in this whole thing is that quote: the lack of decomposition on the bodies is inconsistent with the period of time that the victims,
It's a hue that art about big leg, question mark a huge part of this and after watching the series. I was on their side and I went further down the rabbit hole and now I'm honest, just like moderately terrified so my my thing here that I'm gonna like hang onto yeah, is the only questions that will like linger in my brain about this is like: where are they bringing them and holding them razor needs to be a player absolutely
then, why ok see like why why? Why is the biggest question? I think why is the biggest question that, like nobody's really answered, I mean yeah? I saw like different theories, unlike rutted, unlike just like little by crime, Posten stuff- that I, of course that are interesting, but I dont want to get into because Mozilla, no idea, I have no basis to share that. You had I mean, like everybody, can speculate what they want. Yes, so honestly I mean it is interesting to go through and kind of check out the emotional wanna. Do the earth's he's me the M motivation, if you want to look at that on your own, but but I think it's like the cause, if they are doing this, if this is like a big ring, why of people? it's like woe, first of all, and then the Pacific MA it's like, where is this happening where is this torture, whereas, like the Heinrich Warner they holding these men? You know like I'd? I need somebody to give me a place like a probable play
So here s a day is it has to be somewhere? But here's the thing it's across twenty five major cities. It could be fuckin anywhere, but then there's multiple, please. I have on the other thing, that's like if you're holding a grown ass man for like several days two weeks, torturing them like you, gotta, have a pretty good place to do the absolute way from a lot of people. That's like very one included stats. Another series of art of this is that their targeting men and a lot of these men were very what a great earlier tall old style like I mean what I just said that one of them was six foot tall, an hundred ninety five pound into. He could take you for sure yeah and a lot of them are built and, like it just you're like why, how I dont understand ass an obviously it's not a typical. You know victim profile for most serial killers, usually serial killers do go after women GINO, and so it's interesting to see like this July him
possible, ring a really that is only targeting these leg? You know pretty, like you know, a middle class, why dude, I think it's! No! It we entered, they really like, doesn't make any sense in hurry stream. I think that's another part of why people like took on a hold onto like the smiley face. Killer theory is not like it freaks you out cause yet we're, unlike their art, like em there's really, sir. You can just continue to go further and further down a rabbit, who, like the first one leg to me, that seems like murder. It sounds like minor without the obviously eye witnesses are pretty unreliable, it's a little higher, so I get depending on the amount of people that said that that Van was following them and like the fact that they had a partial license plate tells me someone saw something executive so that something enough to like right down a license plate it actually how many fuckin license plates de right, yeah solidly dad is interest, and it is me while I think the second one is pretty interesting to ask you to be third now. So, if we're going chronologically, which I'm gonna
to do then Brian Wilson is who we should talk about. Next Brian was a twenty one year old college student in Chicago his mother Stephanie says Brian was the best thing she ever dead. Oh my god, which ruined mainstay story, my heart, he is a super bright kid like all the others. He was making honours and his classes, and he was on the dean's list. He was a fine it major and he was really good at all things. Money related his mom said that he liked to spend her money instead areas Jessica, cute little comment: food and now a major red flag here, Brian doesn't really drinker like he didn't really drink a lot? So when his body was discovered washed up on a beach and Gary Indiana thirty miles away from where he was believed to have entered the water on Lake Michigan and law enforcement claimed that this was an accident fuelled by drinking every one was like no, it wasn't like that. Doesn't make any sense,
it's now Brian, just like Larry Andrews had gone out with friends for New year's, so we have two new year's cases here, which is little creepy accept this one is a ninety. Ninety nine in our new year's tends to be the time when people get wild and I get drunk enough. Didn't happen. I'm just saying no, that's absolutely fair. Thats, absolutely fair may know it's true you're right and I think it's good to have. Like me, being so like, like hell, no, this is happening and I'm you do like in the mid I'm gonna wait and see. If I can t I can see, I can see both sides. I think each person listening is probably like team Elaine Charity. I should Mr Patten that or Justine neither of us against other than it already got surreal, but not real. I disagree with you. Brien's best friend Nick was out with him that night and he said Brian only had a couple of drinks. Now I will be devils advocates. I don't have to listen to you, do it
They were drinking long island. I cities and we all know that those well fuck you, let's get this thing spoke as those are different every you never know what you're gonna get you the large island rate up, iced tea or who could get. You know lava from, came later this year. I blame gone. I believe daddy gone to happen. Come all the way about multiple times when drinking Long Island see another world it I've seen some share, but again he's like open he's a taller dude Likud, we ve been metabolize things a little differently than you and me Fisher XL. Everyone in their girlfriends also pretty much had the same amount to drink. So at least we can look at that as well. Ok, and hopefully we can just assume that they all have the same bartender before you ve set bubble up. One step ahead of you can just like sense. It depends on like I can't goes up looking at you now. The only difference
between Brian and everybody else was that Brien got extremely ill, like Patrick Macneil Ill, like very eel eel, very yield to the point of falling over same thing. He left the bar with his friends, thank God that they left with him and they headed by their actual staying at a hotel that night. So while they were driving back Brian got sick in the car and when they got back to the hotel, his friends went up to get like some cleaning supplies. Tavis they clean up, but the door. Man would not let Brian back in the hotel because he was so feebly He was so dry. Obviously it was then somehow it's really unclear how this all happened, but somehow Brian got separated from his friends and that moment multiple happen there. It's way I think they went up till I get the cleaning surmise wandered away and I think he just wandered off exactly like. Maybe got sick arose, like kneeling over to get second, somebody grabbed a man ass. I do now that's the whole point of this. Nobody noticed that we have no fucking exactly
multiple people witnessed him, throwing up and stumbling down the street again confused. Why nobody stopped help this boy again after that made it would be a full seventy. Seven days before anyone saw Brian ago that's allotted is about three. That's like two and a half months, almost three four and five days now Nick who was out of Brian the night before called his mom Stephanie the next day, to see if Brian was there, because he had it returned back to the dorms and seventy right away knew something was off and later when she was notified. That brain was missing She, this lady, is about ass. She started searching right away. She was going into the city to hand out flyer, Brian and just looking for any led. She could that kills me. She at first the police wouldn't take Brian's disappearance seriously, probably because they like happen on New year's unease in college, and they just don't take them seriously. I guess
so a deal. She gathered a ton of people from her church to show up at the station like demanding that something be done about this, and this is horrible. Brien's father had passed away the year before in his sleep hold up. I can't imagine woman and then to deal with your son being missing for two and a half months. Slick. I grant a nice guy. He was too I'm I'm looking up these men, there always super handsome, he is supervention them for they all our yeah so like I did like that, though I can imagine what she was going through like she just lost her husband and now she's lost her son, but she has no idea where he is like it's that kind of grief for your, like You don't even know what you're you don't even know. What yeah you don't know. What are even air. Some people like. Why does some people just get hammer to attack on a stone limo?
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he only moderately decomposed after being in the water versus seventy seven days, and how did you up in the water in the first place? Now, if Brian took the route that the original investigators believed that he did to get to this point in the water, he would have had to cross ten lanes of traffic. so each like one of four of them were going one way and, unlike a bunch of them, are going another or he would have had to have a gay and underground tunnel and looking up state he was in, I don't think either. Tube of those things would have happened, yeah, It just seems like when people wander away drunk they dont wander like sixty five miles away with wander like a little ways away, exacting themselves in trouble if there's like, embody water near one right of course, but that seems like a lot at super. We are and it's worth mentioning that Brian wasn't really familiar with the Chicago area, so it does make sense that he could get lost but like to get this lost. Woe and
even if he did excuse me, even if they did do this in here on the water. Why did he washed up? thirty miles away after such a long period of time here now addressing the police sergeant sergeant physique, as was on the case originally, and he appeared on that oxygen series that I talked about, and he was talking to the team. We investigating everything and he said that twenty nine years on the force. It was the first time that a body had washed up on the shore. Really yes, and he said that Brian looked like he had been missing for a week. Now this is like a police sergeant whose bet on the force for twenty nine years- and he looked like he had been missing- very weak. Yes now, of course, it is possible that over the course of those days, Brien's body could have floated the thirty miles over to Indiana Chicago out, of course, but realistically and actually statistically it should have happened. A lot sooner
on the series that I've been talking about. They were able to go over all of the previous bodies founded like this area, and they were able to see that, in that thirty mile stretch of water, all those bodies that were there the longest it took a body to get even near the proximity of where Brien's body was found was thirty six hours, even if you it's and thirty six yes, I was gonna, be like that's a lotta days. Thirty six hours with the longest seventy seventy one. Seventy seven days like this is essentially impossible. That's that's! That's all that at its very tricky now again, let's look at the blood alcohol concentration. Look at it, so bright was reported at point zero, eight for which, for reference, is almost sober enough to operate. I was just going to say that slow now, you- and this is where it gets a little bit confusing because he had thrown up so a lot.
Like a lot a lot a lot and we can assume, like a black eyes, had a pretty good amount because of whatever he drank like came back up, however, dont know how soon after he started, we don't know Sunni started throwing up after he had drank. So we don't know. Much valued metabolites already metabolize. Exactly thank you all, Now, if the concentration was that low, but he was so clearly ill, it's not an out of this world assumption that he had been drugged version. Clearly somebody slipped something in his drink, yeah but unfortunately, during the autopsy they didn't tests to see for that. Those particular kind of drugs, like you, have to test for those Yanza cattle, a specific order and they didn't cause. They just they thought this was an accident, unfortunately so let's get until witness territorial little. But here, let's do I'm gonna need you excited. I tried my best,
look at all this, but I was like you know what I know that I have heard of its formerly used now. Brian's back showed fixed levity, meaning that he was lying on his back for a good portion of the time after he died and probably when he died, NEA, probably ok. He was at least maybe when he died, it's more that he was spending the most time laying on his back after the ok cause. It's usually it's after death at start. Looked at it. He started to set and cause everything settles where the lowest point gravity is ok. Thank you We walk now from what I've read. It is very unlikely that a victim of drowning would show a fixed LE video it ll avidity in general, but especially on the back area. Yeah, ok, now Doktor Lee Gilberts and further confirmed that when he said quote, This is inconsistent with a body in turbulent water like Lake Michigan. He should have had levity on all sides. None to one side, because that would indicate that he literally did not move.
like he was just learning, not avidity, processing, that an eye is right, the entire time and never even like Bob during thing around. Where would like eighty nine in waters in the water? I just I don't and again this is the winter time and its lake Michigan low. You have high like it's like glass. Now I mean he washed up on a beach. We all see the tide going in and out exactly would have moved even just a not more money, I would imagine you would see it more than on their back, but I would think so and so a doctor early Malaysia, Doc now there was also know, fluid found in Ryan's lungs at all, yeah, that's into all of his Organs were well intact which, being in the world for seventy seven days. I would assume that your organs maybe get like bloated or something, I don't really know a lot about what the or ends with the insides do in water, but did the no water in the lungs is very simple. We are and there was no sand found in the esophagus or the stomach whom now, when Doktor Cyril Elect Ma Dude went over, that
particular bit of information. He said that it was to be believed. It was highly unlikely that Brian entered that water alive and drowned. I agreed with the team that Brian was likely murdered somewhere else before he ever entered that water and Doktor Goebbels Gilberts, and believes that when Brien's body was found, he had only been dead for about thirty six hours while yeah, because yet so I give them especially though avidity thing it's like it seems to me like he was lying on his back on a flat surface, after he was killed. The levity fix you two men and they threw him in the water exactly after that was already done. So the only reason that I said that the Hare step was gonna come back as because a small patch of his hair was like missing, like clearly had been like leg like just got: Hannity removed or something yeah like just gone while through, which is we're out, is weird, but they didn't get like super To that end, I couldn't find like a tonne on it, so I didn't know if that would happen after thirty six hours on the water. I dont know why there
it happened. I know- and I am less there was like scalp slippage, but yeah, but it does something. There was a seventh strange now. The good thing about this particular cases up the sergeant physique as agreed to reopen Brien's case oh good, so they reopened it back and twenty eighteen, I haven't seen anything, that's come of it like yet, but I mean at least a little guy there. The open and there looking into new possibilities ha now, then ex case that I want to talk about and probably who we're gonna end on, I think is Luke Comin, Luke was a twenty one year old college student going to school and lacrosse Wisconsin of you heard that the door to say because the wind tat his cases like really hurry to me because he and his parents had actually talked about all of the drownings that had
going on in that area when Luke was deciding where to go to school. I hate when that happened, that a case and when, as victim is like talking about the other victims before they become a victim in like, and that happens not once but twice in this case he causes the first example, and just stop definitely worth noting. Lacrosse actually has the most cases associated with the smiling case. Killers ha miss Smiley, face killers. Exley slightly case, get autocrat over twenty mysterious, quoting quote drownings others over twenty there that they believe are in smiley face Louis silent ass in right, oh yeah,
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once he was actually talking to his friends and he said quote: you'd have to be a dummy to drown in the river, because when you see the river you know you're going the wrong way, which is true, you are going? The right way up enough to be laid up to be done, because, obviously, if I was talking to him, I believe yes, but the horse, story of things is that they are very disoriented, not whether we re enter the water, but it point. I don't even think that, like the Smiley face killer thing, yeah that, like the detail, they grow. nobody was really talking about it. That much is only really in recent years, the areas because it's been happening since ninety Ninety seven but towns only real in recent years- that we heard a lot of money and almost de my entire life alive yeah. What super crazy now It is true that the Mississippi River is in the complete opposite direction of all the bars and the way that you would go if you're going back to camp a surly cutting back and for the night, but that only makes things like super stranger
yeah, because if everyone going to school there or in the area knows that than they probably would avoid that area. That's true, meaning like these aren't an accidental drownings alleged, allegedly opinion now Luke avoided that particular area himself because, like I said he didn't like water, but after he went missing in September two thousand and six. That is where his body was found, just like the countless other men that it deserves okey, that is so smooth so creepy, not only one but two instances where he was talking about it and his parents were literally worried for him to go there, that stresses and hair like just peace. More and like all my gonna frickin love his parents, on the documentary and all the parents on the documentary swung enveloped them in a group polygon number one hour breaking there is such a young guys theirs young guys and these parents just seem like it's like colleagues one in the Heather Biscuit Earth demolish case when we are talking to other. It's like you feel connected to these families because there,
every day family could be your family, like your family and a lot of these parents in the cases that feels that by now, Luke was a star basketball player at the time, and he was going out those just like us. when he was, and he was going out to celebrate October fast with his friends those two things don't correlate, but I wanted to point out that if we really basketball who he was also a good basketball player? Yes, because it mentioning to another awfully a tall guy and athletic. Yes, now one point or another he got separated from the group. No one is really exactly sure how one of his friends who appeared in the document- or he said that, like a group of them, were leaving the barn that they were out and he staying there with one other guy ochre who he was like acquaintances with ok Witchland, because I'm always legal. How are they getting separate from all her friends. Why don't you think about it and, like that's, been the first part of like so many case? I note on it really has an eye in every single time. I'm always like how the
but how right but liken, but also I love you but you're, not really a party animal non which, like is not an insult announced like but like I could see. You know what I mean like yeah. I could see me getting separated from my friends. I then I think legates I would never let any my friends get ya go. Get away from me so like. But you know what actually know anything about it. I put myself in the position multiple times where I was like yeah you how I've separated, I personally separated out for my friends and gone to do something different near which what's up, but that is not smart, because I don't want your grand podcast, but major. Those days are gone anyway. There there behind you, but back to this now they around Luke's body in the Mississippi River and promptly ruled it an accidental, drowning move. Excuse me escaped over something he got separated from the group, and it was three days later that his body was found took to whose his with some pretty quickly the body showed defensive and offensive wounds
and there were some kind of abrasion to his forehead and small, scratches that the initial investigators called travel abrasions. Now the markings weeks forehead weren't exactly consistent with being travel abrasions, though, because what they meant by this was that, basically, while he was travelling for lack of a better turn down the river, his face came into contact with small rocks on the bottom of the river. Other objects that would have left him with scratches, but the problem in Luke's cases at the abrasions to his face were going in different directions and then, when you're find on a river, your typically going one way lets her. So, let's just like a little but your body can bob Little yeah Fisher Mina now. The other thing is that the defence of an offensive wounds were explained away because there was a rumour of an altercation near the last bar. That Luke was seen that night, this algae, was to have gone down next to the bar and an alleyway, unfortunately,
this is like another thing: no one knows exactly what happened because again he got separated from his friend group and the original investigators. Just gonna we're like gallic. We don't know somehow, yeah. Now the abrasion on Luke's, head was actually brought by the new investigators to a man William more now, William, more as a forensic tool mark, analysed and doktor. Gilberts then explained that what they were hoping to do was identify what made the market Luke's forehead now remember, there's a mark and their scratches. So we are talking about the mark, so get this William Morris per. national opinion is that the abrasion on Luke's head is of a boot prince, and what we are seeing is that someone most likely pinned down Luke and held him. There would like the tow of his boot, and when you see them place the imprint of like what the shoe would look like over the thing the abrasion on his head, you're like how did not see that to begin with, like that, absolutely is about to see if you can may be found a picture. It's crazy
now one Kevin and his team or re investigating. They also found out that the then members playing at the bar that night had actually been interviewed by police in the original investigation and one of them eyes in the band gotten to an altercation with another guy who, I guess we could assume, may have been Luke for like being near his band equipment. While he was packing up his man the band members were actually ass to bring their van in so that they could put the police could lay kind of check it out and get to know them and a cadaver job. Responded to assent near the rear passenger compartment who you are what was done about that. They just let the Van Gogh. Are you kidding me and they, like last all the information they just. There are just like pop. His letter decided not win thickets right man so dagger. It was an accident they just like what the Van Gogh. How does
happen. Why would you just not even look into it a little a little bit more? The dog responded to it. Just take a peak playing like you can revise while you were there exactly wow. Now one of the things with the that the new investigative team wanted to do was test Luke's clothing for any kind of like dna or anything else that could lead to answers that maybe was missed the first time around and unfortunately they didn't. and any dna, but they did find tons of fluorescent Orange specks on Luke's clothing, generally only to have been found on the sweatshirt but upon raw performing the test again, This specks were also on his genes from now. What's creepy about this is that the smiley face painted nearby that's associated with Luke's murder was painted and well there s. An orange paint now live enter fats The only smiley face that, unlike all that, had something to do with that that's variant. In my personal opinion,
when they tested to see what the specks were they were able to, and they determined them to be from nail polish, which sometimes like sold and spray form and used for graffiti, so boom roasted in turn resting now at this print it really, you could see that it could look like a boot pray looks just like a fuckin blueprint. It could maybe be so I don't know what else it would, because that's not my job but yeah. I mean it's a very intense boot print yeah, but, like I mean it was probably an intense moment where ya holding him down and maybe doesn't really look like it moved at all, but maybe he like it was like deepen there somewhere now there's a couple of their strange things about Luke's clothing. For one thing I mean he travel down the Mississippi River for three days, so you you'd, assuming billet, covered in mud. You would think so like absolutely covered and much like super duper dirty. But, what's weird is that his clothes actually weren't that dirty and
it was much more consistent with only him only having would have been in the water for about three to twelve hours. So that's like a maximum of one day. So where was he for the rest of the time that he spent Miss and the other thing that they realized was that two of his back belt loops were broken and looked like they ve been like forcefully yanked off. It was like they were still attached to the top part, but I've been broken, bought an item like somebody pulled up on them like they were like yanked now could, whoever was pinning him down have been working with other people who, like picked him up to drag him somewhere else and that's how they got torn off. My seems, like a good happen, I think that seems like it could have been. send resting in like it could have happened in the water, but these were the back belt loops and he was traveling faced first, I would like to know you could argue like the same thing from the beginning, that yeah card on something, but it would have had to be pretty forceful yeah, so that super duper weird and it is consistent with somebody like musing about loops
pull them up or something? That's what I think now it Kevin, went with Pattie home and just share what they had found in their reinvestigation in the hopes to have Luke's manner of death changed to homicide, so they can reopen the case. I haven't seen any update a pass. Two thousand and nineteen on not they have been able to reallocate Diane. I know this is so frustrating really is. I was just like moving when I saw about so sorry. If I was like rules, I have rarely another planet, it's crazy! No! This is because there's plenty of places where you can build man well, this could have helped but there is plenty of places that you like. Why That was what you like every two I was watching a mouse click! Ok! Well, if you can spoil me and then I was awake, you can't explain not only you can explain both ways right, but I think the one that like really
fuck with me is Brian, because he was in the water for seventy seven days and looked like he had only been in the water for a week. He had at once that one's thrown MIA yeah like whites, and this is, Such a law is a lot of information soul, I'm gonna! Let you process all of that information before we move on to bird before we move on the part of two where we're going to talk about three for actually for more cases like and then I guess I'll find out whether or not you are convinced. I am very interested in God. I am too I just I don't want this to be over, like I could research this for years to come. I know it was going to say it Let's just keep going my cover, all of it so interests will we would maybe we'll do leg spent. I didn't want you to see a couple. More will be like we're. Gonna hit a few more hey. Maybe we could you ve ever Patria on actually know they go ahead of like all the cases, so that we can find a love that, while guys are swimming in part, two
we're going to see whether or not you agree with me and we're going to talk about four more of these victims and we'll see you then so take some time. She won't it. Some time Tijuana. We hope you keep listening to the other episodes and we hope you heap Well, that's over the unilateral and the more into the small yeah, I'm waiting for part two.
Transcript generated on 2021-06-30.