Since 1997 young men have been disappearing for periods of time and then turning up in bodies of water. Upon first glance it’s easy to brush these off as accidents, young men drinking too much and slipping or falling to their deaths: sad but not unheard of. It was in 2008 that Kevin Gannon, Anthony Duarte, Mike Donovan and Dr. Lee Gilbertson presented a theory to the world: What if these cases aren’t accidents at all? What if there is some kind of gang spread across the nation, picking these guys off 1 by 1. Insert the name of the case, The Smiley Face Killers. Article: Article is offering out listeners fifty dollars off your first purchase of 100 dollars or more. Go to Article.com/morbid and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout HuntAKiller: Right now, you can go to HuntAKiller.com/MORBID and use MORBID, for 20% off your first box. Again, make sure to use CODE MORBID for a 20% discount! ModernFertility: Right now, Modern Fertility is offering our listeners $20 off the test when you go to ModernFertility.com/morbid. BestFiends: Download the 5 star-rated puzzle game, Best Fiends FREE today on the App Store or Google Play. That’s FRIENDS without the R – Best Fiends!
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey you. We're knows I'm Alina and I'm ash, and you know it this is eyes it creepy morbid all right yet more ready. I got it. here we are heirs- and I am sorry that part too, is like a little more delayed than we usually like them to be. Listen, I'm just let me up for review Abed, tried to get her colonoscopy. Ok, baroness there's a banner, and you know what good on you we're like three weeks. I've been referring to it as a procedure like I had to drink, the magnesium said magnesium, and if you follow me on Twitter, you know all about an area I ll
lost all will to live that, that's just like private I'm just looking at it. Everyone not just let's, let's Beware out there in open I've. I appreciate that I'm impressed by that. Thank you. I'm a man. by you and for anyone wondering I have. I bs fully confirmed in case anyone his wonder, but yeah, that's not a fun procedure, end that yo and takes it takes full days. So anyway, we decided to let this one go to the end of the week, so that Ash Code Dino get herself back on track, and you know it here. She is leg or only the EU. Because I'd like to pay you that's a lot like you, don't like it anyway, you cited one, I'm sure. That's not fun. I can imagine you know a secret I blow during my hair
before she sure debt. In the middle of like my history, I was like warm, not gonna, go in there. Looking shitty, I wore a matching pajamas and like fuzzy slippers, and I was like hi I'm here too, the coroner escapade, none of us would expect any less. I am sure everybody agrees with me on a safe and we wouldn't want anything less now without I we wouldn't want that. But I've see no good for you for pushing through it, but I'm sure you know that's why this party came a little later than we normally would like it to, but obviously we'll make up, for there was a big reasons. Parachuted, none of us are upset, so I hope you're, not you and it's worth it asked it really good job with this case, so many parties worth. I want you to know, I'm just feeling so three, this feeling of some kind now she's always kind to me, I'm having some Pepsi unfilled sweet. Well, that's not what I'm haven't
in some? What is it raspberry, lime, seltzer, vague Alec to pretend that its alcohol easy on the term? India? As you know, that's what we're here for a year and we are in part to cause. I don't really. We have any business other than explaining to Missus Lynde now, but we are in part to the smiley face killers segment. If he will ages mayhem Please make laziness because does this ever stop? No love. Shall we can just continue this for another few years honestly, if this could be its own podcast, I'm! Actually I wonder if it is already. I know. problem, I wonder if it is, I'm gonna go ahead with that of answers to let you know tomorrow what we should do, another episode, who knows? Maybe you know in a year from now we can just due to more yeah. Just I mean a hope not like here I am being like who know no great. No, I hope not hello, we all
hope not only mean to my, unlike what already have extra, how I took the exactly because there's height- and you know it- that's what I meant. Obviously it's obviously what I meant this is morbidly made in case you couldn't edits. Morbidly night is very different from morbid mornings like how like the today show, is different than like the Jimmy camels, where risque at night does Jamaica Mohammed Show yeah, ok, I get that he condemns each Jimmy Camel injure me fallen yeah. He has a show, there's a lot of journeys. Jimmy the Sum James's, I'm pretty sure at night, the philippine allergies at night, but this isn't it about that it is a nice about this man. Are you sure you're? So in part one? We talked a lot about. You know the theory. What's going on like these young men are getting abducted, they somehow get separated from their friends. you don't really seem to have a drink that much, but that's the interests they seem like a liberated so confusing. We had a lot of people confirm like that drink thing
because I was like is that a lot of drinks really that size of a person did they say now? A lot of people said no like, then some people said like I'm that size and that would do basically We are like my husband, my boyfriend, my body, all they were saying letter fat is very normal and then I was thinking about it knows like Johns, are really tall guy, and I remember when we were like younger and actually going to bars and stuff like he could have Waymore drinks than I could ever met. Jim, even looking at or just smelling with dying and he could easily do it and be fine rain. So I was going to too much off my level, sequestering tolerance like when you say six like we were saying earlier for like mere, even though you think it's, but it's like you have to go by so red. Thank you to everyone who is like pointing out that day. They can tell us no news from everything I read it unseemly Alice but I'd I agreed with you. I just had to do some research into that cause. I was like wait a second that's. Why
this case is so crazy because it's like things like Some people like no that's onawandah drinks and some people automatically like that's a lot of drink Zeus. Bernard is drunk this case has so much of that I've gotta just dig, you do it and you have to look at it from such a different angle and instead of looking at from your own lens, you have to look at it like rise, very generalise thing, or not only that you have to look at it from a scientific will. You do and point, let me assure you, know that in this specific case, their excuse me a victim that we will talk about first in the part to you're. Just gonna lose your mind based on everything that is in the like. He was absolutely murdered like this was not an accidental drowning, I'm ready for my mind to just launch across this rooms already, so, let's get out of it so bad I met I started reading about Todd Gibes case. I could not believe that law enforcement called this one and accidental, like I was fully just the shocked now
ready. I should stress and stressed out here: ok certain, that's a thing like if you're not fully convinced that tough guy was murdered, like literally we have to talk because I'd die. Just need to talk to you to think to understand why you think that oh, no, what if I don't think I'm really, then we'll have a chat, but I talk to you about this. A little bit already is, I think, you'll be fine, but Todd was twenty two years old and he was living in Michigan and the night that he went missing was June, eleventh two thousand and five. He had plans to go to an orchard party with some friends which, like that's onto right up our spooky atley, an Orchard party in Orchard Party. What one? Why have I never been to an orchard? I never too and orchard. This is on all of you. Why have you not invited me to an orchard fired him? If I ever get invited to one I'll ask if economic plus one three can have an orchard, so you have to find an orchard sluts. I we're gonna find ways was like a family or like a family farm. Orchard kind of thing fall plans. Twenty twenty one fuck me
only the beginning part just the Orkut out just that, but so before him to the party he stopped at a local bar called the calves bar for a drink. I couldn't find out whether he was with somebody or, if you just like, sought Frederick by himself Folk and also really doesn't matter The reason that I want, like I tried to look into that, was to see how many drink seed hot at the bar or reality that many confirm and anybody who remembered anything we heard at the bar, but nobody remembered anything, could instinct thinks on becoming a detectives. New. Are imagine me as a fucking detective. Imagine now so he went to the bar and then he went to the party. He hung out with his friends and he left around midnight, which it's pretty decent tiles, pretty straightforward night for a twelve year old. Absolutely now over the course of the entire night, like we were saying most of these people, these victims are drinking a lot like gas, the at all. He only had a couple drinks and Todd's mother. Cathy said that her son was agreed
kid, and the only thing that she's really worried about with all of this going on is that people will lose track of who he was fat, see that hurts my heart in this case, specifically like I feel so bad for his mother, because things are still happening, leg tat they will get into and that's that's the other Durban. That's the other part of this cases. These victims, families, have to relive this over and over one another victim happen, willingly agreed having to see this pile on top of tat and every mother. That word like I've, mention all the mothers. They all agree that their their children were murdered. While they haven t. They all agree that, like the smiling face killers thing has something to No one wants to believe their childless murder. No, it's not what you want your first in, oh, that's, that wouldn't be. Your first thought is like open up that. Seventy, what happens array for them all to think that there has to be a reason he made of anything. That's like them.
I think that you are absolutely rather it be an accident tat. If it is, it's gotta have as to how you don't want to think of it at the hands of someone. I know it's just I just can't even put myself there ain't, no engine She went on to say that he was a fun, loving, family guy and she doesn't believe the authorities when they say what happened to her son. Todd was missing for a total of twenty one days, which is three weeks a lot of days. Three full weeks, that's literally almost a month His body was discovered in the water by Jim wildly and his wife, who are getting ready to go canoeing, and this was a private lake, but they love. Now when they discovered him, he was. covered in a very strange position for somebody who had quoting quote drowned just like a lot of these victims. His head was above the water resting on one of his arms gonna like his forearm, and he was floating vertically ha, not horrors.
Really like you would expect. That's enter a very strange, very strange nice. So I was looking through like a bunch of France or websites the other day, and I was like none of these are really speaking to my soul, and then I landed on article and, let me tell you, article, combines the creation of a boutique furniture store. Would the comfort and simplicity of shopping online, which is my personal favorite activity, articles team of designers focus on beauty crafted pieces, quality materials and durable construction is inspired by a variety of modern design. Aesthetics like midcentury scandinavian, industrial and my personal favorite bohemian. They also have really fair prices. You save up to thirty percent over traditional retail prices and article is able to keep their prices low by car.
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Never saw even a glimpse of Todd's body that night that's strange and he was actually at his, though the gems wife thought that it was a beaver in the distance like it was very. His body was very noticeable. Why, in like where it was tat, you would have seen him as it is only really strange that the his brother didn't see him now. Even stranger- is that in the previous days when Jim had gone out to use his canoe, he found that it was missing and when it turned back up again, it was filled with empty beer cans. Now this lake was like not off of we exactly where they were part like this was not off of the orchard. ha right and it was like it's a private lake like I said so that time I was going to say this, isn't a public area? No, that's weird! So range and copies died, that when Todd was discovered, she was able to see him and she was surprised at the condition than he was in and she went on line
and actually did some research and investigating herself into what a body would look like. Had it been in the water that long and she said right then, and there she knew that Tom had not been on the water all that time. No, of course not in wait until we get into this. This specific one is just like I can soon Todd's autopsy listed only moderate decomposition. Now again, twenty one days, twenty one days, three weeks old two months in the middle of June, by the way, and like a warm area near that that doesn't check out to me like its may right now here, and it was ninety degrees to, and I could barely stand outside. You're telling me that its only gonna cause moderate DE composition in that time, that amount of time and that specifically calendar time yeah. Now it doesn't make any cycles and check out to me. The He also made no note of any insects on the body which is essentially just impossible in the amelioration now
so listed high levels of December mean an amateur trip dleam, which are too antidepressant drugs. That Todd was not prescribed and they said where they am pharmacist and the documentary that I mentioned in part. One and the pharmacist said, like these are party drugs- that you wouldn't use these to get high like yeah like this in your train, a rule these out as I did, he take them to yeah to go to his orchard, party which, as I know you wouldn't amounting in those cause, you probably what alike, fallen asleep and look at the levels that were in Todd's body. They actually could have killed him or the very least caused a seizure or cardiac arrest like so this it. And it's like one. These aren't party drugs into the amount just one of even if they were party drugs, they went to bed lethal, exactly huh.
Lethal, or at least I close to Lee. Definitely like incapacity, absolutely like you would have had to go to the hospital to get your stomach pump. Probably very interesting, but you know if they had been crushed up and slipped into tat into Todd strictly obviously would have been incapacitated really quickly, which seems to be what kind of happens here like like. I was singing the beginning. These guys aren't drinking a lot milk and then you don't really look for drugs and somebody system like like they, don't necessarily for judge me all the time, no enforcing system. I don't really know why they found the once in her system like and they didn't look for. Judge me. Another autopsies No I don't know exactly. Maybe it was must have been. It can be like it is ordered. You know like what. The tests are ordered. So maybe at this point they just did it right, cumber right now, when I would assume I mean you would really look into this one.
based on the level of de composition and the time supposedly in the water, easy man. That's why they kind of looked a little bit further, I'm not exactly sure, but back to the insects. No one is buying the lack thereof on Todd's body, and especially not the people who are being re investigating this case. So the team met up with a man named Eric Benbow, who is a forensic biologist from Michigan State University, and he confirmed that in his experience, insect evidence is always listed on an autopsy yeah. which I would assume, because insect show up. Real quick well yeah I mean they are even when you're, not when you're bodies not found in the exam They show up a lifeline as soon as a body dies Amazing layering, effective insects will show insight Dick, ones show up at different times in Europe for different kinds of de com. They do different. Things is like you can tell such a timetable from the inside,
on a dead body yeah. I would assume that, unlike that's the kind of stuff they do at the body farm right and it's like the one Chauncey like who shows up first student, who shows up second who's. Gonna, come who's, gonna, come way at the end and pick the stuff off the boy Consequently, I do not like there's like such an alike routine to at last, if so, crazy think. So, if you follow me on twitter again, you saw that you'll understand that when I was treating about when I say a kind of what we get into an a second here, but I just find it so interesting, like it so disturbing, not like obviously, insects eater, These were its causes and I looked up and saw interests. It is and that their there so rigid with how they do basically adds its system as regime? They give us evidence we're what they do right, as they are, they allow us to tell a timetable. They allow us to pinpoint closer, at least to a time of death like yeah they do it just really cool that they are evidence regionally evidence of its disagreement
when, especially even in the water, like there's different aquatic insects, anxiety lay talking about here. They were like all like this, in fact, in this kind of homes, and would have been like right there, yeah no further, there should have been licks, at least some note made of presumably a large amount of green algae that, if TAT had been in the water that long like in this specific lake, there's a loan of algae and if even if there is not, of algae and you're in the water. For twenty one days, you're going to have some kind of film on your clothing. Absolutely there wasn't alone. film on his clothing and his mom actually said. That was one of the things that struck her as odd, anybody who had a fish tank, wigs you're. So you know exactly so. They didn't experiment that you probably saw me tweet about now. Pigskin is apparently- and I did not know this- is currently very similar to human skin, which creeps me. The fuck out, so they took five pig carcasses and they put them into the water for three weeks, the exact time that Todd was missing, foreign, presumably in the water,
and they periodically went back to checking to see what was going on. They also dressed one of the pigs to see how much algae would accumulate over like a certain amount of time now. Deacon excuse me do company, can literally started on day. One yeah the carcass became like really bloated, and there was a lot of bugs lurking in they were. They were taking note of the different insects. I think they're, even like and taking them until it tubes and embryo, of course, cause you're starting to let out gases own like right well actually in the water, which is attracting those insects actors who is no insects on him. Just like its unheard of it, we as it's just not the truth. It's it's! Over! like, dare I say, impossible, nobody, I think, because even if he had been in though unlike no, it is no it s not see technician. Absolutely hospital says me her cyclists are you? Did your research didn't, but it's it's just. It doesn't make any death and it's like, even if you were in the water for one day.
there would be some kind of process on southern common yeah now that was one day three days later, There were insect eggs laid on the body, of course, and by day twenty one, the ball He was literally just like dazzling out dissolving into the water. Had he then in the water that long, unfortunately, he would in future FED there wouldn't have been anything left of her except skeletal remains absolutely, which is very sad, but I just feeling TAT whole excel. it proves that he was not in the water for that. I dont know how they can look at that, and at least not question. It's like come on. You gotta start looking at this a little dude. It was one of the gnarly as things I've ever seen in my life, it is its wild IPL Lake. I noticed but so fucking cool. It was out of wildlife and that's why the body farm has always fascinated me and, like enthralled me
because it's so important, unite line of test is so important in it is it's what how we figure these things out and I used to make fun of you all the time in Billig. That's tariff like here, if I can create omelette now, like sorry, unlike take me with you, because you see the the merit and it's it's very interesting and exactly like I'd like it can solve things it's like so important, so Not only that, but again I said they. They addressed one of the pigs, including now the level of algae on these clothes. They they were algae. the pointed they want tat. They became one without delay. Didn't like it was. It was like that somebody got slime Donegal, yeah, like they make sense, there's no fucking way that he now and then for twenty one day now this one is seems pretty cut and dried out. Something happened here then, where
was he and who did this to him at what I want to know now. This is this is what I was talking about when, like things are still happening that are involving his mother and his family, a smiley face was not only left on Todd's grave. They put a smiley face on his great it looked like a sticker. There was also one found on a tree near where his body was found. Now you could absolutely argue it could be like some fucked up teenagers playing some kind of sick ass printing yeah, which teenage kids have been known to sick ass. I dont mean my cool do by ITALY's got some just started. Obtaining funding is, if you did that Can you imagine a view literally been cool order, which is a dope ass play he's sick asked he nodded nah, it's one of those that the smiling face thing is. The thing where I starts to teach or off I gotta, that's where my leg scepticism Gunnar, I absolutely creeps end, but
rested this one. Unlike do I do. I know it's like a smiley face killer that did it now do I know that somebody who did it. Yes, there's no Frazier. Now, as a February twenty second, two thousand nineteen that believe you saved the muskeg in Moscow gone county. Prosecutor is strongly considering reclassifying Todd's death as a homicide, but it's like Can we can't get over the hump where you're just like hey? I saw that pig video to and like he was definitely murdered like let's go ahead and an ruled out a homicide can we stop just like strongly think about it and maybe do something about it, but one foot in front of the other, and maybe just do it- they get off your booty. I love that as like our wrongly I'm really thinking about it. Nobody showed him the pig video strongly think it does an abuse of a pig video. You wouldn't strongly considerate you'd be like we are opening this ice
Personally, I open it. I tweeted about her. I text only about it. I asked you if I could show him directly. Let me show our sombre, so now is wild its. it's one of those things. I say it a lot that it's like. Why not just go above and beyond and if you're wrong, and you find out that yeah it was an accident array, wrong. Bringing did you due diligence, so you can really feel bad about money. Losing money and resources are not. I think it's for a good cause and it's like wouldn't What's the worst sickened happen, if you find out that you're right and that it was an accident, it is weird to me. I will say that all of these motives, then they all most of these cases. All this evidence is coming out during the re investigation, we're like there's like ligature marks or on somebody's Knacker. There's like Todd guy like he was
the water for twenty years. There's all these things make your life. Why? Why do you guys not one open this up? Yeah- and I guess I mean again- if your skeptical of this, you can argue like you know it's real and it will cause mass panic like I get that yeah, but also we owe these victims family, Klute Families closure. There is at least a people here, yeah that are very questionable. Personally, I feel like everything, but we ve talked about so far is murder. Ivy league. I don't feel that no, I felt that there was a couple that I can definitely see being an accident. I cannot see the thing is. I can see why you think yeah. I just strongly disagree, which is fine, because I going to sit here and claim. I know no like that. I don't know it's an accident like I feel like some of them might be accidents, but there's a couple that are like previous, like how ya, like the good Todd Guide,
like that guy's Alex Little suspected of lake. I just always in, and also makes me wonder, with him being vertical in the water like that. I wonder if somebody tied something to his feet, to throw him in. He stayed there. way for a little while than whatever was slipped off his feet. He had already decomposed to the point where gases had escaped, so he stayed that way in so instead of like decomposing in a way where, if you in the water for twenty one day right, you know, and he was already in a position to maybe he stayed that way, because gases didn't escape in a way that would like put his body back that went as far as I can see that who knows I one which would again lead to, but then on his motor he was dressed and there wasn't level of algae found on the clothing. That's the thing so it's like was he murdered and then like Hell's.
And then to get rid of dispose of his body. They put him in the water with something attached his feet, oh like closer to. Maybe it wasn't that attaches very well and its and it slipped off pretty quickly young man. He just rose to the surface. That way, and that's why he's only but in the latter fur was moderate, yeah yeah cause, maybe he had decomposed a little out of the water sure after he was held for a low but yeah? That's it! That's a really. Only next just tell me- I mean this is miss your line of work at far away I could have Salute LISA. That's I wouldn't ever thought about my. I don't know I've just get the whole time. I've been sitting here. Thinking the vertical thing like I know it happens, rarely belated bear because I think they said that link on the documentary- or there were like this does happen- version very reticent. Not like the norm, but then you think about link when we talked about Bridewell ASEAN and it's like he washed up after seventy seven day. So what does it make? Any psychiatric goes there while it barely like he looked like he had been missing a week. Those are the
now that I'm like airy fellows. time to crack open those old case books. Luckily, Brien wildly did open yeah, I know I think it's still hard to have a date night that actually feel special cause were kind of and that hazy area were already having to spend all day, cooped up and like end up watching a movie or show every single night, and it's just so mundane. So it's like why not switch apple at all, with Hunter killer, because, whether its deed I or game night onto killer, brings people together by challenging them to decode ciphers, examined clues and solve puzzles. I've always said this do you guys. It's like an escape room. Delivered right, Theodore under killer, gives us all the opportunity to have fun, work together and investigate crime without even having to leave the house it's crazy with Hunter killer. You could have more fun at home for less than the price a few drinks, a meal out like a decent restaurant or even a movie theirs
Oh baby, sitter required either so parents. This is perfect for you, and even if you don't have kids like me, my friends and I ll to grab like a little bit of wine. Sometimes, if we can't get together will hop on zoom and we'll just play together and hunted killer keeps growing. They have hundred thousand active subscribers and over two thousand five star review, so I clearly people enjoy it avoid pact to rest, France and cheesy dates and stay in, and collaborate on, an island, forgettable, murder investigation plus my absolute favorite part of this is that part of the proceeds for every box good. Hold case foundation, which is an organisation that is dedicated to helping with real life cold cases, actually Johnny Douglas. The inspiration for the Netflix show that we all love so much mine Hunter the chairman of the board so like, if that's not reason enough That's a reason enough for me. I'm saying right now you can go to hunt a killer, dot com, slash, morbid and use morbid for twenty percent of your first box again make sure
to use code more bed for a twenty percent discount. Do you have what it takes to hunt a killer? I You do so. Let's talk about somebody that you definitely no about. We are going to talk about William Hurley. Yes, if you grew up in order from Boston, you know this name. I know this name now. William was a twenty four year olds, Navy veteran living in Boston. With his girlfriend of two years named Clare, I saw in some sources that they were engaged in, that I've seen and other sources that they were just boyfriend girlfriend either way they were in love and they were in love and Clare is a beautiful human being law. You can just see her soul is like so pure Clare. I fear my I feel so bad for her heart goes out to end his parents, obviously near so on October. Eighth, two thousand nine, the night he went missing.
He had been invited by some coworkers to go to a Bruins game. William didn't really know that much about hockey and he wasn't super into the sport, but he did agree to go anyway. He's Grove and Clare was actually going to be a key. suddenly anyway, so it's like he might as well. You know He was at the game. He was texting Clare about one of the guys that was there with him he didn't know the other guy, really that well other than from that night, and the guy was apparently being like a jack ass and really getting on Williams nerves and he texted Claire saying the kid was a tool and then later he was like. I'm gonna kill this kid, like public, obviously to unwanted keys, annoying Michigan Jesus Christ of Collective guilt eventually about halfway through the game. William decided he because I don't like hockey. I don't like this kid. I'm good and Clare was actually gonna be leaving her class is pretty soon to he. She could scoop him on the waiting time, so he gave her a call and he was. I can pick me up. She sighed the up and she was on the phone with William, while she was trying to figure out exactly what
he was now if you're from Boston, the garden where the burdens games take place, the Gatt and gotten can be even if you're from here super hard to navigate. Oh, it's a health gave its exertions village it hell escape and especially when you're picking somebody up, because there's about eighty two places that they could have exited from, I can feel the anxiety alma, even thinking about even just leaving the garden yourself like as a as a patron you're. Like is really what we do I go. Where are we? Are we at the red under instrument any gone? It's always backward. You always come out the wrong door and you're like where the hell am. I now will in a negative light herself back where you it's did said. It's terrific Austin. Am I right of Boston? You are still when she got to Williams and the EU. going to be. She texted him. I'm out front. He wrote back. Ok, I'm here, I'm coming now the think about the garden and religious Boston in general. Is that you can't sit parked out front player. Can
just keep going everybody's gonna to yell at you, oh yeah, be the bird you have to keep going, so she had to leave around again and she was staying like William stay in one spot and I'll find you stop move a great, especially in she was confused about what she has said this in the document. It she was like, I didn't understand like why he kept moving, like I told him to stay in one spot. Get now especially at that point. She was like nervous too because she knew that his phone was dying like obviously at that moment is like our crop refunds. Gonna die but, I have to thank God. So eventually somebody told well if she heard somebody in the background yell that he was at ninety nine Nashua Street and Clare was relieved She was only a hundred and fifty feet away from our God. According to her gps, a hundred and fifty feet, my god, but when she got to the point and pulled up, there will wasn't there it had, in less than a minute problem. I was less than two minutes, maybe if she's driving slow, so she got
the car and she held his name, nothing, he literally just like vanished into thin air. While this, why is systematically? Why is insane ingest? Even the more you get? It was a hundred and fifty feet away within she on the phone with him. She said, like I looked at my gps, some I was a hundred and fifty feet away and I was relieved like all finally right arm nope. So when the following days, Clare did everything she could think of she called walls mom who came to Boston from Believe North care. I know there were missing posters all along the water that clear and hung up and people searching the city, but nothing. It would be six days before Williams body was found in the Charles. Now that's a river, if you're not from here there were blunt impact injuries to his head. bruise on his nose going under the right eye, which was now completely shut, and there were eighteen micrograms of gauge be present in his body, so he had absolutely been drugs for sure
like obviously now William Cellphone was found right near where Clare would have picked him up. There was lucky like dropped his cell phone and just like vanished into another world, because someone abducted and now the cellphone looked like it had been run over and I guess the battery was missing. There. Ok so mean Mihail. It was given back to a Williams mother when, after the original investigation, so Kevin and his team asked if they can see the phone and may be kind of get it up and working again now they were hoping they could even like look at some of his text messages and that's actually how they were able to get. text that I was talking about in the call logs calling Claire, so they brought the phone to a digital forensic analysed, which I was like. A thing like that? Certainly all the just like the different foreign Linux is There are many other issues you can go down with. You only get entirely there's something for everything and it's like these people are so laser
guest on their young specialty. It's like Ah there, just like so well educated and one programme like listening to them. Talk here, just like don't ever saw good. Tell me we keep on talking now. One of those people was Derek Ellington Digital Forensic analysis, analysed now the first into its even a new specialty analysis that hits Greta. Now. In his opinion, the phone had been more than run over. It seemed like somebody had snapped it taken the battery and then run it over still like. Clearly somebody wanted this phone done, so perhaps the person who he was saying is really annoying, and I want to kill him that literally kind of what I was thinking. I don't know and again in these work, but he didn't know this guy very well. These weren't, like coworkers. I think that it and never sent anywhere that these were like his
bodies like you're feeling when it says you're going out with coworkers it's like they're kind of your friend. Instead, just like people, you see our written his eye, you don't normally hang out with them outside a where exactly so yeah. that's. The thing he's not like how worker ye- I never see you don't see you outside of that. We have such an interesting job. We do for literally together every single day, but in addition, to the phone weirdness, they also wanted to look more into the injuries that William had suffered. That night. I'm actually talk to you a little bit about this. I forgot what you said so like an acting. I like debunked one thing in my own mind. I think you did but I think I may have re bunked it in my research. So while talking to Doktor Elizabeth LE poster she explained to the team that
The injuries to William Space were entirely consistent with falling into the water because most of them were in the recess areas of his face. This is what I was talking to you about. Now. She went on to explain that, typically, when a person falls into a body of water, they hit the more prominent parts of their face. Like your chin, your nose, maybe even your forehead, if your mean yeah things- knowing protruding, instead of like young backs you're caught, always places not like underneath your I like him or like kind of the parties That's in between your eyebrows kind of goes like in a bit, so you're not really gonna hit that usually, when you go into the water now May I please. The only way to examine injuries was basically assuming that he fell into something when he fell into the water. That would have been able to have the recess area of his face yet, but- and I will say to be fair- it is not unlikely that that happened. If you know how nest nay, the trials are set in the child is a lot of stuff just lurking in their lower. My my thing was like what, if he hit something that was protruding
I got even while he was like floating things, are moving in the referendum in the Charles eleven point. One of something was sticking out, and but to be able to reach yeah. I almost think of areas there's probably like old fuckin pipelines and shit, and I like theirs like old mobsters in their those steadily old, is absolutely all sorts of things in their yeah. But the Bruce Around his face means that he must have been alive at the time he injury and at least for several minutes after four bread, very good point. So that's where I reborn sure you did that's it, that's a rebuke and she went on of bruised if in last post mortem right in less because I fully believe he was murdered. I do to ensure that there are. You can, but, as you know, I'm not getting that rock. No there's nothing. That says to me at all, but this is an excellent one, not one thing, even just one
You got to gauge be unlike oh yeah. They were murdered in like finding the phone where he last was talking to her in a lab to run over entirely new thing right, use planning on getting in that car with her right, where the hell did, you wouldn't just wandered off again, Ligon, secondly, that it so crazy cause. You would assume that she would have seen him like cross the street or just send word, but that's why things like some Really. I think they How do I like tossed him in a ban or some yeah like led him away quickly, so is like really unnoticeable, and I mean she was on the ground like a like after Bruins game know, this was midway through arc sees me midway through burns game, but still he owes you leave during those games is like a lot of shit going on around right. The garden, and I mean nighttime up all night time, there's not going on yeah it's so it could be like I'm very crowded area which would allow some one to quickly led him away yeah, but I just. I think it's with with this one.
With like either. I think he could have been clinically alive when he hit the water, you think so, which I think he could have been. I'm not saying he he was because I have no evidence to say he was accept the bruising right if he did happen a hit something in the water and he was clinically alive sure that it will bruised, but, to be honest, I it sounds more like a beating, that's what I think, especially those specific area, the bounds of bridge of your knows exactly and underneath your I signed the and the other thing that boy there's be as to the point where the eye swelled shot. Exactly like. That's that's not something going on you in the water is not a bump. Yeah, that's a forcible injury so dear to me, it sounds like a beating, I think so too in it's like. I don't really think he entered battle. Alive, especially based on everything we know so far about the alleged smiley face killers and just these victims of general yeah. I don't think so now before
was found. Actually Clare spoke with a police detective that told her that Having team had not found will, while they were searching in that area of the river- and he literally said to her that she could quote put that to rest, because that was like one of the things that she was really worried Lange really fell in the water. Like really worried about water at something she had this feeling yeah. It seems like. Obviously, there are very connected, so damn I don't put it passed her for having just got feeling damn right now, a week later, wills body was found in the Charles, like I said so, he had told her. She could put that to bed and then a week later he was found there. Now. I do find it interesting that they search that specific area yeah because its they cause. That's happened before in these cases, bodies turn up, and it's like it's just interesting to me like it does fit kind of the
Oh and like now you know all doll does kind of link up that dies. They're, not there, then all of a sudden there right it just it doesn't make sense and the location where his body was found is pretty compelling stuff because where he was found would mean that his body was traveling against the current, not usually doesn't happen, especially with of unfortunately lifeless body. Yet current tends to go one way. You know. Care, carry things with it to tat, as opposed to get a mean, especially in Boston. You like we can get crazy when that. That's weird- and this is my favorite fucking part of this entire thing, so I've talked about Doktor Lee Gilberts and he was the doktor on cabins team. he volunteered to recreate the funding and straight up hopped into the fight for him to hop into the Charles River. The man is dedicated. That's
real dedication to us. They found a day that matched the weather conditions on like like a week that match the weather conditions on that particular time when will would have been in the water in their findings were that it would have been impossible for the wind to push a body against the current That's I love that they went this hard. I love it you have to. I will I'll I'll watching you, because I gotta see this so good so that led them to believe that will was dumped in the Charles either the morning that he was found like right there or that he was dumped in the Charles from a different point than they had surmised in the original investigation. Mocha because they never had exact pinpoint they were just like. It was probably around here as he was talking to her like a hundred and fifty feet. You no net law from exactly knowledge is power, and when you no more, you can make better decisions for your body, your health and your future. There
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for starters, three stars, but also smiley faces and stars. Like I said, a very kind of Mohammed Graffiti is but interesting write, something to entertain exactly. now. There were also another three, including where William went missing near ninety one asks me: ninety nine Nashua Street three smiley faces there. There are three get near Brian, where three bodies were found and three Nerve Austin University, where three bodies were found: also for Boston, there's smiley faces near all the bodies that were found. All twelve interesting, though the guy who was interviewed set about this year twelve arsons in the neighborhood, you got an arsonist Basically saying like all these it's a turning up dead, you out a serial killer, where those smoke there's fire exasperatingly, I was actually would also. I wonder, if firm and out enough, they said this or not, if they did they paint over those smiley faces. Are they still album?
I don't know about that. Put her one one, because the other thing to is that the documentary came out. twenty eight teams, I'm assuming it, took probably like a year to go home. So I don't know I wonder but I know that in some of the cases they ve been painted overnight, and actually it's really where that you ask that right now, because I'm getting into our next victim and his smiley face was pale Oh really, oh that's funny, but I don't even think I haven't in here so to say it now. There as a smiley face found near his body where it was recovered and it was painted over, like I said, and then they went into the bar. he went missing from and there were smiley faces on the foundation and the bar put there, so it is interest entrusting again the smiley face, This does not really cause interest me like a key. I it's because it's not like you know, they're the internal think of like a really intricate lake. Like that the Caltech, not killers, without any words like.
Some value, don't you see all the time lean? Only we were, you are like we're done all these Caltech, not surgery, showing our economic. These places thou and be like ha. That's weird bleary smiley faces that the only reason it's like so hard to just you told We have a on that. We should try to get into contact with Kevin Ganem. We should and like maybe even just like can hear what he does. I want to hear a little more what he has to say about the smiley faces. Can I do this? This is theory Lang very interested to hear the, because I agree with him. These people are absolutely Kevin Leonard, so I'm I'm linger on how to reach out to his word, you're, not going to try and where you could have a try here. We are declaring owed all down to my every last word, but nothing may come of this specifically to cool, bring it little. They live
people in the past that I've tried to get on and we got the bond so we started this pod cast and I was like, while I wonderful ever, have somebody like cool on there in them that what we got like Billy Johnson and, unlike me, I'm electricity IDA immediately the S land, ass, busied o other banish. So what you know what's when put it out there? I think get in and the team are gonna come on the pot work at a manifest searched. I'm really email them tonight. We're not anyways, that's beside the point. Let's get into their, so eggs are victim, is tony booth. Tommy was to this. One especially is just like you can convince me otherwise, so give it to me. Tommy was twenty four year old union worker from Pennsylvania and his mother, Barbara, who she just could be any of, like my friends, mom slinging hast I've I've about her that I just felt super connected
Europe has a bastard Bob she's, a mom. She, the man, but she described him as a sensitive, sincere self, proclaimed Mama's boy and said that he was the glue that held their family together. Oh shut soldiers thing take my heart yeah, sit up on it earlier times was actually I'm an episode. I just found this randomly on you too, but I was like looking into this case He's on an episode of Hollywood Medium with Tyler Henry really I love Tyler Henry so much I know not but he's into the media. I am, and I just thought this was worth mentioning. Tyler did say, quote there's so much there's so much of an emphasis on the investigative side of this that this person is not even having me talk about the passing itself there. Having me talk about the masturbation after and there's a reason when it came to an astrogation around his death, this death. The thing is it there this feeling of just like error, just like a lot of error here, In order to be honest, this number one message here, even beyond his cause
passing enter Dingley, it's like look at the details, the investigation it doesn't add up. So he was saying basically that each month he connected with Tommy when I say that himself he was like I was, I dont have taught me like. He was just like this person that I've connected with the same lease saying that this investigation was botched and it was so Tommy missing on January nineteenth two thousand eight, while he was out celebrating a friend's twenty first birthday now something that struck me as really odd about this particular case was that his friend garb researched, the bar but they were going to let me yeah. They looked into it in it. so just seemed like an odd place to go like the barges seem to be in like a Strip mall in it just seemed like a regular bar falling. I know maybe the article dance worrisome who knows There was a designated driver for the night, though, and when it came to me, for them to go like to leave. Everybody was looking for Tommy and they
find him no in one source I saw thought it was time to leave and that they were looking for Tommy find him and then in another source IRA that they got kicked out and they couldn't find Tommy so either way they just they had. I think in more so is more sources and I believe, actually Barbara. The mother said that they were kicked out. I think there are like smoking potter, something ok it makes a lot more sense because it's like oh crap, like we have to go like we ask around and look for him, but makes sense. But, like I said and other cases he just seemed to banish. So it took fourteen days to find him. These body and his body was actually found behind the bar laying face down in a creek. There was a guy small creek behind this bar now the creek is literally thirty feet from the back door of the bar, which now is shut down. There were dragged marks in front of Tommy and a boot print next to him, which was really odd because they probably wouldn't have lasted a two week period. No, definitely not
now at Tommy's knows and Chin were full of dirt clay and small rocks like he had been drug at least some length to that specific spot. So it doesn't make sense. Now, the original investigator trying to say that that wasn't a drag mark. This specific mark was like from the tide or something like from the water going in and out, but it's a drag mark. So I'm gonna go on record. it's a drag marks original investigator. You shut your failure. Ass shot; ok, no one! Even everybody like reinvesting getting. This was like. I really think that no one is body discovered again. He was missing for two full weeks. That's fourteen days he was found in full rigour. This is the one. This is a one one. Now rigour mortis definitely doesn't last two weeks like ever from what I've looked into legate. That's not effect. no, I mean it invites
mental factors can like fuck with that. As I said, our land, but it never. Nothing said like it would fuck with a further area of time. That seems like a long time and again he was only mildly decompose tad. That's where like all of these things over but again I will play doubles advocate here, but so that you know, after you was when Untidily, just as it was really cold, so darkened slow down the pen here? Coppers, that's the thing and it can really fuck with all those things in temper. Sure can fund with rigour in a big way and open holds rigour in a certain stage, folk ongar. So in that is a thing that can happen. So it's a possibility, but so rare possibility. I would say that I too weak seems like a lot, but I know that it can stretch for quite a bit if, if the temperature that conditions are correct- but again it does seem-
yeah, it's like a socially very unlikely, but it is possible. So but again he was laying face down in a creek for two weeks and only mildly decomposed like we were just saying whether messes with it But tat was actually one of the theories that the original investigators hide like they went with the whole whether thing they believed that Tommy's body had actually gotten stuck under the frozen part of the creek and then for backup of for lack of a better terms. Like spit out when the water melted and then he ended up in that spot okra. So I don't know because here's the thing Tommy step fathers friend walked up and down the banks of that creek like a couple days or a day before Tommy was discovered and He never saw him. There was, and he also said that the portion of the creek that he was that he was found in was not for us and at all, and he had been standing right above the spot where Tommy's body had been discovered. Ok, that's weird that super,
yeah, that's weird now. Another weird thing here is that there was fixed levity on Tommy's back, but he was found lying face. First right and again in the water when you're drowning. It would be really strange to have fixed liquidity in the back row. Yeah yeah, that's that's a strange ones, not a drought and very strange. It's it's not common and drowning victims, and funding I have said that in a couple of the other ones who did have again fixed solidity in their back and media, I was gonna sank as there was another. I think I believe it was brain miles, an hour really crazy to think that somebody could have wanted to harm Tommy in the weeks leading up to his death. Actually, he was saying some pretty strange things. He actually confided in an uncle the day that he died, that he was running with a tie crowd who were moving drugs and guns, and he felt like he was an over his head
he actually mentioned just moving to Florida and starting fresh like he was he was feeling again like he was in over his head. I can't think of another way to say yeah. He was stressed out about it and then about a week before he went missing his mom heard the phone with someone, and he seemed to be like really stressed out and just repeating over and over again. No, I Never do that. Man not know NEA and he's along with what then he made a separate comment to her in I don't even know how it came out, but he said he probably wouldn't be around that much longer and she was like China, don't say that but again I mean you, don't think of anything left Lord willing. I think it is something like this year now behind the bar on the wall facing the creek, there was a smiley face spray painted, which, in this one is a dunce, Crete me out a little bit because Devlin very close proximity yeah I mean all these smiley faces. Definitely freak me out:
Eggs guy illegally creep is pretty terrifying, and that is that is weird. Not one is weird and they painted over it, and, like I said, another one showed up here, a while back. I started looking for a matching puzzle game that could give me a good challenge. You know I'm like always up for a good challenge, something requiring more than just the basic strategy round after round after round. I know you know a games, I'm talking about. More, I searched the more. I wondered if I would ever find what I was looking for and then I came across best Viens, the mobile puzzle game that always leaves your brain feeling refreshingly challenged literally every time I do best beans like I, I get really competitive with me. own self and I'm sitting there like. How am I going to beat this level and I get like angry when I can't beat one? Oh, I know then, why not screaming in the kitchen and just like nothing, but then, when I finally beat it it's like the best feeling and
This means as way more fun than any other matching puzzle games. You know the ones where, like all you do, is just smash candy and over and over and over. You know you now in fact it almost too much fun, because I really can't stop playing Adelina just note not, but it's really, but not much of a problem, because best fiends literally, has thousands of fun puzzles to solve I'm already on level like actually I don't know off the top of my head, but it's in the three hundred, so I'm really got when you're gettin in their still plenty more to go. I guarantee you will never end best. Fiends is like the new, never ending story with vast Viens there's something new to play every single day and the adorable collectible characters just keep coming. I think the characters are my favorite part of the game. Eyelike excitedly squeal, every single time that I got a new fiend and even when, like I have all of them
like my little baby is growing up, maybe you're like me, and you had some doubts about finding a puzzle game with more to offer, but my advice to you is give best means a try. Just don't blame me if you can't put it down download the five star rated puzzle, game, bus beans, free today on the app store or Google play? That's friends without the are best be so haven't seen anything about whether or not they were going to reclassify his death. I think the original investigator wants to see more evidence based on what I saw in the documentary, because is fully convinced that this was just an accidental drowning. They actually handsomely recreate the crime scene and like recreate what would have happened, and everything in the guy still wasn't fully convinced me tat this some stranger, the sun, God it's just
it's really weird and honesty. It's really heartbreaking, because his mother believes that he was murdered like it seems like and its link to slip into it for a man. I know it I feel like some of these are like a pride thing. Were the average Investigators are like nope link. We did a good job in new, oh good enough sure and haven't really bothers me. Like India. Put your private, I can think of is yours. If this happened to your son, unlike what your wife would be thank and what you would think, that's the thing it's like that. I really do, think that this is at least partially upright thing there's you know why, because its I mean it's also human nature, to have late that, like no, I did a good job. Relax, I'm not going to be criticised the leg you gotta, let lifting out you gotta, let every Rayner good and you got to sit there and go. Maybe I was wrong about their philosophy, one its leader at it. You gotta, look at it from a different angle, new tax. All you do shift your perspective,
so the last victim that we're going to talk about tonight is Dakota James now, just like all the other ones. This is a particularly weird one, but this one is really weird, because it's almost like whoever did this to Dakota had tried to previously ha. Ok do tell this one will fucking, up. So on December, fifteenth two thousand sixteen Dakotas friend Shelly got a call from Dakota. You said I don't know where I am I'm so called. Please help me: I'm lost what the fuck now he was out, walking in what he thought was North Pittsburgh and had no idea how he ended up there like he just like came to while he was walking around on the streets and called this random was like. I don't know where the fuck I am like you gotta.
Make sounds like he was drunk yup. So luckily he, while sharing his location with this particular friend Shelley, and she was able to see that he wasn't even in North Pittsburgh using Self Pittsburgh. So he's very does very I've and something was incredibly wrong, I'm getting like goosebumps now, because I know what we're going to this is fucking great, so when shall we got two Dakota? He was coming out of the hotel walking toward a black suv that was parked facing the wrong way in the wrong lane. No, she held his name as he made his way to the car or excuse me: she what is and ass. He made his way to her car, like whence he kind of like snapped out of his trance. The suvs sped off o K I think, we're home on. We now heat hold her that he had gone out to the bars are on seven o clock with his coworkers, which I don't know his co workers are fucking, weird
you gonna, stop hanging out was coworkers, everyone trouble, don't do it and swine nourishing outgoing yeah now and he's. That he went out and like that was all he remember, just the beginning of the ain't getting like drinks with them. His words now we're like totally clear and he was walking in a straight line, but Couldn T figure out where he had been for the past four hours just amnesia but was like really shook up about it, and just like really didn't want to talk about it, so they didn't really talk about it after that. What the fuck now fast forward to five weeks later on January 25th, two thousand and seventeen twenty three year Old Dakota is out with the same co workers and he gets kicked out of a bar for being quote unquote too drunk. So he started making his way back home. Also, if one of your fucking friends to have a bar, because somebody thinks there too drunk one of you has to go with them. Yeah. Just somebody like you, never let yearn to like friend
a bar- and you know what I have to say like bar, should let that happen. I know it is that it should be on them to leg at least. Have somebody go? We were like. I know it's not like there thing like. I call you a neuber like. Can we be a little more human here? I know I figured it could avoid a lot of just make sure that big you do the best you can do you do deals. Do Eliza do what you would want somebody to do to your kid your sister exactly brother or your Mama, whoever for someone near you, love and care. Just like people nicely My drunk dog home come on. You just wanted to have a good time. Has so he's already making his way back home Dakota. Scott, nor is at work. He had plans with his family that weekend he was a grad student. He was excited about finishing school. He had everything going for him, not only by a court. to the police. He tripped and fell while trying to use the bathroom in the water near the Roberto, Clemente Bridge, and he drowned
no interesting Lee enough. There are eleven smiley faces graffiti on that bridge. Eleven O Levin hundred now Dakota, who, by the way was the mother fucking, swim. Teen, captain, ok, drowned the swim team captain drowned ok. I don't think so interesting now he was missing for a total of forty days before he was discovered in the Ohio River missing for a long time. Forty days now Robinson Townships, volunteer, swift, water rescue group say about five times: ass, swift, water rescue, that's hardly got to say the Robinson townships volunteers with rescue the holding them to say enough, helium reading it and I can say no, but they recover Dakotas body two miles beyond Ellsworth Back channel. Damn now obviously
Forty days in the water and probably having gone underneath a damn, you would be pretty beat up and very badly decomposed. At that point I mean, I would say so, the blame, but Dakotas body, like the others, wasn't fairly good shape. The rescuers actually recognised him from the noose. Briefly from the news, what they said, but they had rescued and recovered nearly a dozen bodies from that same water and out of all of them: Dakotas was in the best shape that doesn't make sense. Look an autopsy revealed that there was each being his system, while I'm shocked, but earlier than all of these guys have the same drug in their systems. Super duper man other than Tom Guide, those two. When an accident drug combination of fuck hat that that seems like it was like a last ditch upper, I'm gonna try one who those maybe they tried to put Jades Vienna system and they just and test for that, and they are all of the other two drugs like first, maybe maybe the janjaweed and workers on the air, but anyways there was Jpg
in Dakota System, but other than that. Thought it was an accident other than that drug. That was placed in his eye. I said it before Every time I see that somebody has the geek beyond their system. Among ok, like somebody was gonna murder. You are at least take advantage of somebody's gonna do somethin nefarious value. You don't usually drive people that Europe is hanging. I'm I'm done. usually I never drug people that I just one thing else if Mimi, thereby setting for everybody else, so I just thing now: player can stay good cause could come now into good his family. Knew that this was not an accident, but they were actually being brushed off by the police and like not at all, take until real science bummer, which is a fucked, so they were like cool fuck you and they hired apply good. Now, not the autopsy photos and the recovery photos. Luckier nine Kevin's team became involved in aid. Just fuckin gotcha done Kevin excursus, I'm so proud. Me too. I just like our job government asked him about this, but I can't
and his team, brought the autopsy and recovery photos to our boy, Cyril whacked, who saw Cyril a very apparent ligature mark around Dakotas neck. like so apparent that when they showed it in the documentary I was like oh yeah, ligature mark. We can my professional opinion that sugar arc, like I've seen one now. This was really interest I've never heard of this before there were. so it was. There was also a blood pulling in the nail beds on the third and fourth fingers, which he said was indicative of somebody trying to relieve pressure from a ligature like if you take your third in your middle, finger in your ring finger and you do around your neck, like yeah you're, trying to somehow the thing out like crazy So there was annoying how amazing that leg, forensic proof, I'll just tell you can see. And be like. Oh that's what that's from I want to be that smart,
its unreal. I'm not even continue. This case made me want to let go take a couple class zeal in, like friends, exaggerate still just to learn. I don't have the time to do that at all, but I want to, but so interesting and as for the ligature marquise, and it was quote strongly suggestive and entirely consistent with the ligature having been applied around the neck. I do not hesitate for one moment to be highly critical of the neck evaluation, wow and fur, and again I think we said it part one, but for another person like in the business to be critical of another person's work is a very big deal. Only has not happened a lot like very yet you selling friends. Pathologists are running round being like with echo a fuckin hack, gatling alot, of respect within the field. It's like you want because you're all in it you're all supposed to be in it for the right reasons. In the same reason, you know I mean for them to speak for that dead person. Exactly that's what so ass to be informed, and it's like so You want to believe everybody's in for it. For that the other
you're not gonna go questioning people. Do you think they did their job? No, I don't. Even look at house do in early look at this in your like, so if one of them is, If, like Cyril worked as being like, I'm questioning evaluation on this. One part huge is questioning. It would mean any questioning it out loud, which means there's something wrong with it right now, the day was like no, no, no, no, no you're, your highly mistaken, very, like honoured guests dear lacked they try to say that the ligature mark around Dakotas neck was blood from his mouth and nose so Numero Uno wow. His mom was like that's super weird though cuz he was in the water for forty days like I feel like that, would have washed off that's a that's a bowl on ten Neuro dose, most of them. Look at your mark. That was like super duper apparent was on the back of his neck. So it's a cow,
I couldn't I bet rip down and like pool around like it and to take hard right Angolan like like what were they drew out for a Sunday dried, it did defy gravity in go somewhere it now. Not maybe ongoing meltdown and I'll show tune, but doesn't really happened me out It's like. I feel you on the lake. This is one of those moments that I won't do it yet now, but I get where you what you wanted to do their waves, I'm here with your tying oddity data, but Cyril Whacked said that he strongly suggest the reopening of this case, and he definitely thinks that at least the very least, the very him and said Lily Larry. The manner of the death should be changed to homicide. Yeah like we're Talkin ligature marks were talkin blood, pooling we're talkin missing for four days. How much more do you need to say this? Is a homicide send now, unfortunately, for that to happen, the medical examiner would have to be willing to review the case, and
he didn't want to until the family went to the media, which I thought was like really, I'm just gonna go himself like that's fucking. shitty at what I was just going to say much, eighty shady as hell it's real like her out its shady sounding here. I am that shady it's like. I guess you could say that one of those pride things again but, like put your fuckin pride aside, their child died all that the thing it's like at least set their ngo. Ok, I think I did the job that I I feel proud of sure. Look at it again point if you have, full confidence what're you originally found. I think they would go into it and say sure I'll do it again, because I dying rate job. The winners, ton hundred percent think that, because I really don't want to die, I'm doing my job the first time I wouldn't believe so, I'm not doing it again. I Billig, ok, family is grieving. Who I am supposed to be giving answered? That's my whole jobs that are, they might just try to eat for your loved one. Who can't speak any more and it's like, of course, I would go back and Billig sure I'll take a whole
another look at em, obviously, and I'll give you the same findings. If I did my job correctly and if I didn't then We might see a rate either that yet to me is like Sir, are they went to the media. He was like all I'll meet with you or not As of twenty nineteen, I haven't seen any update that he did review this case. I tried to find any of none right, Kevin, that's something we're of chocolate have come out now. Obviously I firmly believe that somebody murder Dakota James granted all the evidence in the photos alone, but I have one more tat bit for you. There was a transaction made on Dakotas credit card two days after he disappeared when he was discovered. His credit card was found with his body so who used that credit card? That's weird, very weird, now again, playing devils ad
I will say I believe it was like some kind of like pay pal transaction y. I know that those can be scheduled. kind of like Breyer, I think they carry sometimes iconic an automatic payment, commenting on bank a little bit later. Yeah, like maybe you spend the money on Tuesday and it is, I can handle right, so I guess it could be, like a case like that. that's no weird to look up. I will say that piece of evidence isn't, as compelling to me, is everything else yeah, but it's there. It was just a little too is very and its baronets here's the on top of everything else. That's the thing you have to like. Even the small things when you put them with the big things they ve got. Humbler puzzling says: yeah, that's when you start to get the whole picture. It's true, namely Germany and theirs There are things that I left out with each and every victim, because I really want you guys to go watch the document really thirty ruthlessly a couple of things, and I didn't want to take all the work that they did obviously so definitely go watched
This now face killers decision on oxygen, yeah now there are arguments against the Smiley face theory- and I think we can talk about a basically throughout this whole thing, smiley faces- are very common graffiti drowned is a very common way to die. Unfortunately, and the biggest thing of all is that what is the motive there That's it. That's the thing that I thus narrowing with israeli guide. You too, why fine. I know not. Everybody has a real some people just like to do bad things, but it's like this is a very big operation. It's about seemingly, would involve a lot of people like across country like this is a ring and absolute so. What is the purpose of the ring? Is it just a ring that likes to do this? I don't know I don't get it, but it's so we're
because you usually don't think of serial killers is working together because their egotistical exaggerating other yeah, like in most of the time in the landscape of now. But I leave you with this. That's like the scariest part when there's no MO are a Billy Loomis, say a limitless billy. I had to scream value, you'd go What's that documentary, Mitylene area and relaunch it holy shit and also just says like us, because we talked a lot about lake dead bodies and forensic pathology and answer go red stiff by Mary Roche and it's a really good book. I have the book, I let you I will let you a borrower organ. It's it's a really hug, you guys not, and you can all bar by my party. I owe this passage around eyelids of everybody right, your notes in the margins and one about languages, Mariano from Gilmore Girls, and
but he adds a really good book. It goes into a lot of lake, the after death Stephan, it's fast. It is positive, and I mean I only touched like the tip of the iceberg. Rooming when I read it, I would love to fine, oh yeah, and I have so many of us now that you'll be like all will anything. It will be palpable like going forward with fresh heiresses. Yet always is so thanks for listening. I, while that was amazing and still stump, saw you fuck I'm still saddle. We know they are still some there's a few for sure murder, one hundred percent- don't even like I don't even after an eyelash added there's a couple that, unlike you see I'll, go to mining accidents, Lloyd! I I can definitely meaningful accidents about this is some writer and there's murder all over I dont know. They're very similar. So I don't know like I could be the same legal, but that, unlike it, could just be different people,
and but at present angled kings is you tell me cabin Kafka Kevin, but in every single case that we talked about, there is only moderate de composition and all of these bodies were found in the water like that, while doesn't really happen, but then, obviously like weather and Bob Long year. Exactly some tell us what you think you guys you gotta have to delete a beat. I believed that seem like they tell they did tell us, which you think if you'd like to reconsider our guys. We love you and thank you so much for listening has always, and we hope you keep it We are well aware that early manners elephants got darn it. I'm sorry
Transcript generated on 2021-06-30.