« Morbid: A True Crime Podcast

Episode 252: Charles Schmid "The Pied Piper of Tucson"

2021-07-31 | 🔗
For our second episode this week, Ash brings us the case of Charles Schmid aka the Pied Piper of Tucson. This case, dare we say, may be one of the wildest rides we’ve brought you along for in quite some time. Charles was really a vibe in the 60’s, at least according to the youths of the day. He would change his appearance quite drastically when he turned 18 and it was at that moment he became a hot commodity. However, he was one of the most evil, callous assholes on the planet. He was responsible for the deaths of three young girls, one being his girlfriend at the time, and some say there’s a fourth victim. Buckle up, buttercups.  As always, thank you to our sponsors: Everlane: Go to everlane.com/MORBID and sign up for 10% off your first order plus free shipping!! Candid Co: Right now, you can save seventy-five dollars on your Candid starter kit when you get started from home, or you can book an appointment at a Candid studio near you today. Go to CandidCO.com/morbid and use code morbid Liquid IV: Grab your Liquid I.V. in bulk nationwide at Costco or you can get 25% off when you go to LIQUIDIV.COM and use code MORBID at checkout Norton Lifelock: Join now and save 25% or more off your first year at Norton.com/MORBID
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey you weirdos! I'm and I'm Alina and lose is more bad. We your real hating. How are you everybody M hopped up on espresso at this current. I love that. I love that for you. I went back to my arm brown sugar, note, milkshake, honest SL in a language people. Oh, I miss that yeah forget stomach problems. Who cares and you know what falls a common man feels very far. Do you feel I know it's only artists not even know it's it's a pre pre October. It is Do you feel, though, like today feels very followed it does? It has the vibe
I also stores have hallowing stuff algae ice exacted, I'm feelin real and with it I had to go for a drive today, because Drood did something silly and I had to go pick something up from him by the drive just felt very foolish it's got a vibe and I just feeling ass soon ass, the Halloween stuff comes out on like right, spooky season here. Everybody nanomaterials, officially here actually northern thinking, last night I had a dream about the leaves changing and then I woke up this morning, and I was so sad that the leaves didn't change No, I love green as much as the next scale, but like morality, myself, I'm like Michel, massage when it comes to this effect, that unless we're talkin like green, very lingering lingeringly you'd or bring where you're not gonna, get me I wanted to change. I won't Massachusetts fall. I want foliage, I want. I want fall festival. and what pumpkins all over my poor. I want to drive two hours just to see some better leaps. Yes, that still look the same exact
But my it just feels better yeah everybody's everybody feels me, and you know what, if we all just work together, we can have following up right now, it's not. in great by you. Now we'll figure it out. I mean you know out of body. We have each other. We do. We have each other, I can come here and how would I would really like to go to a haunted house. Everybody so, what's going on, I want to go to a hundred her all in this together. Let's make that happen for us that we are working towards hunted. How sleaze? That's all please. Let us work towards that. just saying: ok, you're San array. So should we tell them what we're going to London. even though they already clicked on the up. So yes, and also just quickly, if you here, like a Dweck Airy my background. You know I got
neighbours and these neighbours really don't they don't appreciate that I'm recording at any given time during the day or night. Not man is always we'd whack you just so many weeds slick. You don't have that many we'd, Sir League eat, like you, said, he's not doing it right. If he's gotta, do it that much he's not doing it right either because he does not make it possible. For thirty minutes. Islands like raised his work at it for a second and terrible. But oh, I don't know, but who knows life may be used, but we did you hear that background. I'm sorry I'll do what I can to drown it out, but you know this is what we get for being in suburbia. You know in Suburbia Right today we're going to be talking about Shell Schmid. They carry the Pied Piper of Tucson. I literally didn't know you. At first when you're, like Chair Schmidt argument. What is hard to say because it's like Charles and then you have to pick it up, would like a child
smash house. Shred live you're. You're fired voice doesn't want to stop saying the First S and the Pied Piper paper. I know this one and warfare weird weird story: here we are already a fairytale like us arrives in ITALY, grow slick, folklore, yeah. What is it This is about child. You know where you go over to underlie this vote trials and was born on July aged nineteen forty two long time ago, long Girl, in time, a girl in Tucson Arizona. Now Charles, is vital. ethical mother wasn't married at the time when Charles was born. O scheme and the the most scandalous there was super duper frowned upon back then, as we all know things socked back then, sir. like you. I have to put you up for adoption, the oh, I'm unwed wow, that's it's fucked its escalation and it is, but you know he did it get adopted by Amazing family, Charles Senior and Catherine Schmid were the ones to adopt him. They were.
Super well to do people and they made a very good living because they owned the Hillcrest, nursing, home and Tucson trials also there only child, so they had like all that dough. He doubted on them or they entered on. They turn it on not vice versa. Espresso you have some cause, I'm like Whoop Bay, spoiled the crap out of him. his allowance. I grant was three hundred dollars a month and you know I love to check what the purchasing power would be. Today. You love it a super chill three thousand three hundred and eighty two dollars a month for an allowance through an allowance dislike for doing jack shit Meanwhile, that's like a great paycheck. A month later, little like doing like actual jostling actual Leah. This dude is making serious coin just existing well, but think that this was kind of one of those families that looked really happy and procedures from the outside. But there is a lot going on behind closed doors, specifically between Charles and his father, because they would always be argue,
wing than most of the time it seems like they were arguing because Charles was like never doing well, and school, even though he was really intelligent and described as super intelligent by his own teachers and classmates one of those not living up to his potential exactly but where Charles did live up to his potential was in gymnastics. He was like an amazing gymnast, apparently why and he was on his high schools team, he was actually the reason why they went to the state championships one year so rich I got some very random fat, random talent, yeah and then so he was super good, but then for some reason, during senior year Erlich, when he got to senior year, he just didn't wanna be a gymnast anymore, meaning let some see potential again. Just wasting yeah. It's like it's like a theme here pattern that same year he was also caught stealing from the machine shop at school. He was like steel in some tools, so he got suspended, but Charles took that punished
men and decided to personally extend it and just never go back to classes, ok, yeah! It like you know. I need to be punished for it. I think he was just like I'm good with school, so I'm good, I'm gonna dip in it was literally right before he graduated like he was very close to graduating. It was like just buttons you hang onto what what a strange so far in its only good strange early gets like why, when just finish it out and are now, but I feel like those people, thought in my graduating class that we oh yeah by and I was but we're soap you, like you mean it's not like us, we're gonna be here either, but Lakes weird month away, so legally rugged one bite of the apple and nearly just take a less bite, yeah Ex wife linked to finish it weird and knowledge. by now I like apples. I really want one of all my brain fall here, but yeah. Somehow his pay and stood still agreed to. Let him stay with them. They actually lived in his own place, that was on their property and they continued to give him
I'm insane allowance and also allowed him a new car and a motorcycle. Now I dont know if he bought those, things with his allowance like himself. I doubt it because he wasn't really until extending his own money. I think I'm like where these graduation gifts, that maybe they just cutting return, they bought him Vienna, hoping he was finish, that all thing I couldn't get store credit. I guess yeah, like your eighteen, get a job or finish school. You ve got to join this new, but when he wasn't slumming off his parents, he would drive, has vehicles around and had on girls while hanging out with his buds knows a dude shit doesn't guys be endued. Browse being men exactly now, even though a lot of people referred to him as a loner, he had a small group of friends and he would hang out with the most of the time, how does he like always had people with him? It seemed and I was like how did they skype him is alive. That's cause he's yeah, constantly surrounded by the like a couple of these character, but maybe just like I don't know. Sometimes it's like an introverted exe
you know I mean we're going out with people, but you really rather be alone, and you can get known me. That's actually how I feel I? U like became an intervening, extrovert yeah. I think I've got out on you. A lot too. I think you did, I think, has been damage has just made me, I'm any you, but not completely, but yes, oh Paul graph was one. I'm Charles is best friends that actually lived with him for a while Paul himself. A stone around town is a pretty bad dude. He ended up in prison on a pretty young age. because he just you know, killed a man during an armed robbery. Oh you just shot a man in Reno, see how do he literally day, while accepting to solve the shot event into so he ended up in prison funeral. We are a bit. I think you may not like five years when I read it. I was like why, but he was a juvenile, so all that weird shit, just a spell in Juvy IST justice
Asian Clear now the two other closest guys to Charles were called John Saunders or Sanders. I think it Saunders, there's a! U turn fancy bucket and Richie burdens. Now they were younger than him and almost everyone in transit, Circle was younger than him and they all referred to him as either Smitty or Romeo of two sodden get out immediately. Leave the room like known around town is the Romeo of to save the planet in? What's in others, it maybe he'd, I gotta type, maybe he's just now. My type put, I I don't understand, and maybe he's just not my type of little value but see they would come up the thing I could see where he would be handsome if he didn't do all the things that I'm gonna try. You he did do his appearance and other people. No. Thank you re. No. Thank you right. No. Eighty just he's very strange, odd,
That's fine but like not when you parrot with murder, yeah, oh, but will get there snow. Eventually he would be known as the Pied Piper of Tucson and I'm sure, you'll see. Why, because, like I know the tail, he likes to hang around for the younger crowd. I also feeling
there is always one guy from your high school allies that loves to hang out with the younger people act as it gives them some sense of like power and authority, and that's it I'm the cool guy, and that is exactly what Charles had going on. It's the one whether some of my favorite things about the warm weather times include going to my favorite coffee shop and getting an aged care, Mama Kyoto, so that I can take it to the faced, and I think that's like the greatest pleasure in my life, because sometimes the greatest pleasures in life are also the simplest. That's my Everley makes premium quality essentials that compliment every wardrobe at a more transparent, affordable price. I have gotten of quite a few things from overlain at this point last thanks giving, I think I've told this story before, but it's the best dress I ever got. I got there grew
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then he started wearing make up that literally. If you look until it, if you like Google, Charles made like make up every article, you re will describe his big up as pancake make a pancake every article and he also a really large mole on his cheek yeah. We can ask about the yellow, was painted on because I wanted to look meaner casino. A more just make people's I going to say. I dont generally look at people with a mole in big whose steak here the Marilyn Monroe. They always Jurassic terrifying, widely Cindy Crawford I'm not like show carlini Booby need alley, don't go near her she'll break you in to inflict, nor usually it's like a beauty market makes you look like. I don't even know anything. I don't even really. He draw Lego, Cindy Crawford beauty marker, like a Marilyn Monroe. He drew luggage and my whole on the side of literally just a large circle, a large black circle on his face some very confused. I was going to ask about that. Could in some pictures I was seeing as I can
doesn't have the. I think you ve probably couldn't do that anymore. When he got to present their politics sends you can't have a sharp object. Oh he has a very punishable face it's the most and you only want to punish him as this untold tee. I hate him. already now. He was also pretty short in stature. I don't know if you have a picture over there ever exactly like what he looked like from head to toe yeah. He was only about. I've, three, why he probably looks a little taller and those pictures that you're lookin out because he would wear cowboy. It's that were too big for him. I literally to open a picture if we ve got to be exact when he and his prison jump savings in London. Guy he's man he's gotta, get dark face before the hour, the duck away and active, but yet he would were cowboy boots that to beg so that he could stuff rags and folded up cans into them before putting them on That way he would out a few inches to its height. They will die why lips, but then he would we
around like very weird because his he rarely crunching on cam crunching on cans and like a balancing on cans and rags. So he literally leg. I don't even know what what does this movement on the keyboard? Walker out like the sea legs that, like bad swagger, lad logger but like he was basically just trying not to fall wobble but his Richie was like he would why, rather like crazy walking, then like walk around short and it's like honey, just own the height. If you have everything like yeah, you can make that at that. The hay does nothing, but if you're, like a cool person in your right, like looking Napoleon the whole deal, but then again, I'm looking at him, and I like you you have anything else. So it's like that's yeah buddy It's the strangest way to remedy short stature
did I ever sleep. Why not just on platforms in sign of the yes, you have the money or joyously, don't be like terrible and don't draw giant law on the side of your face and don't have zero lake redeemable qualities in short, stature doesn't matter at all to anyone right that now, don't do any of us, don't you any of them now and also just sounds like really uncomfortable. Quality when you not around on cans all day but He was also using a clothes spend to stretch of these bottom lip. So I don't really think comfort was like his thing here mark on the most. One might most and one might be corrected yeah. Now he did that bottom lip thing with the close pen, You can see in certain pictures. His lips look a lot fuller than others, like they ll pouty area, and it is because Elvis Presley had that kind of like pout going on at the time. Oh, he thinks he's leg. He
honey, he loved, Elvis Presley like that's what he was going for car you don't make it got few make it. There is just a lot to unpack. You didn't, do it He was also so obsessed. I mean obviously with everything I just said he was so obsessed with his immense, but Richie said that he would stand in front of the mirror for hours just trying out different looks at mannerisms, while which we ve got like a real narcissus An absolute nurses to this is like a total ashcombe side. No right here, you're gonna be like what's the correlation, but last night I found that jail o does the same thing. She gets ready you like hours and hours before an event and stands in front of the mirror and tests out different angles to make sure she looks good from them all. No, she didn't say her herself. So I dont know if that's true, but do earlier. That is somewhere. I was reading it intact. I actually like whether that actually granted somewhere, I mean, I believe,
Maybe you always looks great. She does look so I mean if she came prepared to to play. I I believe, that's, a play and flat- and I believe that in its like Richie, said that he that Charles did all that, would stand and run in the mirror for hours. But, unlike you, still look all kinds of tomfoolery return for him, he still very busted up, but it's weird because the girls were in love with him. I mean a different time. My support it was like the misunderstood youths going through their like sixties emo face not only into him. That's the thing it's like I can. I say that lay we all. We have all been attracted the someone that you look back, then you're like why every person I ever data for forgery, corrects we joke about it all the time I don't do. I dug up better site, apparently yeah you just waiting for drew. That's all. I want yeah, so Smitty would hang out with all these younger kids and I think, obviously, that added to it, he was like the older cool due to walk around on tin cans Agus yeah twice
I wanted to emulate his vibe for some reason and the girls wanted to be next in line for a date. truly was a wild time, but now he would tell all. His young female admirers that he had some kind of connection to the mafia because he thought that was supercool back then he would so tell them that he was terminally ill. Obviously till I make them fall harder for him. I guess and then once they were falling for him, he would tell them that he knew a hundred ways to make love. I hate the hate it Finally, it is so imagine you're on a date with this dude and driving around in his fuckin know, Thunderbird, and you like Habibi, Angela. Hundred ways to make allow my guy would pay the road rash. I would get from rolling out of that fuckin car at full speed, I Pisa South, who so that's it make real to the Ladys Lady into the dude sea would turn around and say he was
continually like you know: gettin it from all these girls and he would describe these like crazy sex sex capades to them and I'm sure they honestly like didn't, go down like you, they did, but he was always tell it. Wild stories of his sexual exploits loud Charles. He is such a conundrum he's an Enigma wrapped in a conundrum in cash inside Somethin scared, snake snake in tied with tin cans fix the fight people started to see a different side of Charles pretty abruptly now it was made thirty first nineteen sixty four and he was hanging out with his girlfriend Mary re French though you know, she's an evil son of a bitch cause. She's got three names up there, it is John Saunders was. There is well he's, also naval, son of a bitch, but I guess you means to names cool and while they were all hang out a trials, this place. Charles, was just like a want to kill someone, and I think we can get away with it. Oh ok
I want to kill girl tonight. I think we can get away with it. All right. He was on twenty two years old at this point like to out it's time to time that we just go our separate ways stipulated dip Actually, my coffee right now gotta go by yet stemmed end this night. Now Not only did he want to kill someone, he knew exactly who he wanted to kill. He wanted to kill a lean row. A lean was If ten years old is living with her mother, on the same street as trousers girlfriend Mary French. She was a really good student and after high school she would have gone straight to college. Her dream was to become an oceanographer ogg refer which, unlike you're just the coolest seriously, then she looks like the coolest on link. I love you. Now Allianz parents had recently got divorced, so it was just the two of them in the house, her mother and her. They were super close and Lately, though there were a couple things that were concerning her mom Norma one thing,
that Alene seem to be very interested in the topic of death and specifically, what happens after we die so she was talking a lot about it in like reading and everything about it, leading up to the night of May thirty. First, almost like it like a premonition that you know and she said If reincarnation was what really happened to people that she wanted to come back as a cat which I would like me to, I should say I think, that's also that cats lived the best life having an ox now. The other thing that really concerning nor mom was that a lean was hanging out with Mary French a lot and she didn't think Mary was a good influences. She knew her like hung out with her oh yeah like literally hung out. While now Norma had caught the girls in her back yard a few times smoking cigarettes and when Mary wasn't hanging out with a lean, she was with John Saunders or trawls Schmid and Norma had this gut feeling about Charles. There was just something about him that she didn't trust like a mother's instinct. I bet it was his face. Yet absolutely was and more specifically his eyes
yeah, because there was one day that he and John came by asking for a lean, but she wasn't home In normal later said, the look and Charles his eyes that day literally scared hurt it s linking our own ass woman. I feel that Khazars pictures that looking at and hits his eyes really do have like their empty yeah link. everybody always says that. But then you look at these this guy's eyes and you're like no. Those are empty eyes like a darkness air fares. Well, there's a darkness about his whole aura lives like he really does give offer really scary thy be. Does I think there was a lot of like mental health issue and on there back, maybe just never got diagnosed cause. He never really did get diagnosed with anything. So I'm not sure actually what it was about, a lean that had Charles so intent upon killing her. So the sources that I read said that she had stood up John Saunders on a date or turned him down when he asked but powder
She and I like free well, who let wants that now, but either way on the night of May thirty. First, nineteen sixty four Charles John and Mary French pulled onto a lean street and driving to Charles his car and Mary had over to a leans house. Now a was home alone that night and she added An early after wrapping her hair up in curlers for school. That external cause she has great hair, amazing really great her. Now she had a big test the next day at school, and she wanted to go to sleep early than she was sleeping when Norma checked on her before heading into work. She worked as a nurse and she was doing an overnight shift, but Mary tapped on aliens bedroom window, and it must have awoke lean and Mary was like. Oh do you want to come out and drink beer with me and Smitty and John and the desert, like we're just heading out to the desert for a good time say no say no Aleem did agree. Once they were out their merry allegedly sat in the car, while Charles and John walked a lean down to a stream bed. This is a huge trigger warning for rape. Just
Let me give you a second step forward if you'd like to they made her. Undress when they got down there. A navy both raped her when they were done with that they just started beating her over the head with rocks and when, we're done with that. Charles walked back up to the car and according to marry quote, he got into the car and he said we killed her. I love you very much. He kissed me. He was breathing real heart and seemed excited. I I don't even know what to say to that later true, true salus, helper evil. That is just true evil to just send it can't imagine my boyfriend, I can't even say, drew cause. I can't even picture that like if I had a different boyfriend and he walked up to the car and was like we killed her eye view one long living thinks so much at happen driver's seat and eat out of there in that you brought her right, but she I think she knew what she was doing, because people who were friends with or even just new Mary French said that
she was so in love with Smitty that she would have done anything for her our scope for him. Her effort, there's a specialist for joy about everything right when my car breaks down. I go to a mechanic when there is a problem with my shower. I call a former so you wanna get your uneven crooked teeth fixed. You can see in orthodontist there, the specialists and that's what sets candid the invisible comfortable, an removable liners above the rest, poorly reviewed or insanely priced clear, liner companies use general dentists, candid only works with orthodontist with candid. The same orthodontist who created your plan is with you from start to finish, so you never have to wonder how you're doing your treatment is prescribed and
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Now a lot of people described various frumpy. That was like the number one word used to describe her. Nothing Amy, really wanna be saddled with no. If anybody call me frumpy I'd put, you know, I would not be psyched and they said that she was probably just so happy that may be paid her any mind at all, so when he grabbed a shovel from the trunk untold marry that she needed to come very the body with him she scurried along after him. Now, never an excuse, no, never an excuse. I don't give a shit if he's an asshole and while he's being nice to you, suddenly that's fuck, fuck, that's fucked! She later said that the three of them took turns digging a grave for a lean and when they were fin, they headed back up to the car, wiped it down, for parents all came up with alibis and just drove back home when he or she is unlike her curlers me up like that. Just I know I had to add that part anyhow. She rarely went out with her curls adds like a little something it does
what it is, and this is our plans for tomorrow, exactly like it's just on setting my hair like and wake up with curly hair tomorrow you knock and wake up tomorrow. No, that's terrible link that just makes it really real, and the other thing was that Mary, French wasn't even his only girlfriend he had like tons of girlfriends at one time. Of course he did. He bought two of his girlfriends Marian another girl at that time. Team dollar engagement rings and ask them to marry him and then the hunt was that he was going to have them. to work and open up a joint bank account and they were going to put their earnings in the bank account. So that's enough the way that he was me why he also once sent Mary to his mother's house, would like this crazy, elaborate story that she was pregnant when she wasn't so that it like they were able to get married and they tried to get me, aid, but she was an old enough, so they cut him, but he was just like that. Just like another brief, like look into his really
Venus. He just like it seems like you just loves care. He does any only pain. population and lying, and he just once the thing is he wants to be the centre of Ivory gangs world, but he doesn't have anybody at the centre of his world other than himself and he d he doesn't know how to care for any one besides himself. No, he doesn't because will see that one his victims. He really did strain. Really care a lot about them. Oh, but like in a very strange way in the only way that he in only he's gonna do and which is probably not the way that any of us know death, I hope not how? Strangely enough, as soon as a lean, went missing her dad told her mother number, they were divorce, but they were stolen contact. He said that he just had this weird feeling that she was murdered and left in the desert, he just hand, but failing woe,
No. She did like to take walks in the desert by herself, at my which I was like. I'm sorry what oh? No! But I guess she just about. I mean if you, if you live in Arizona there is deserts everywhere. So among certain decades this was my exactly how to do that and now excites the sick. Now you can't even walk down your leg. Suburban residential street, as a woman like an Kenyan, walked on your driveway no night, but so yeah. It's not the round, that that was a possibility because she was in the desert all the time. So parents know their kinsman, they do so normal went to the police and she told them everything and they told her. Alene privileges ran away totally that did that's always really good when that's the first thing that they think they have no, and its also like. I need statistics, tell me how off you're right these worlds. When you run your way, go to that, how many girls are just running away from perfectly fine right, leg, girls that are doing
in school that have Ganz to go to college that we're just studying for a big test that girl they just set their hair and a curl or for the next day for their big test that they went to sleep early for how many of those are running awaiting a that really. Just let me know so normal is like yeah fuck, you guys, I'm gonna do my own. Investigate shall yeah Norma in which is funding that we had to Pieces yeah like that now so she was like TAT. I'm fucking so she would go around talking to AL leans friends and she would record every single day some information that she got into a tape recorder, Norma not only did she do that, but she had this gut feeling about omens disappearance, something in sign of her told her that Charles Schmid was responsible and lobbyists and we know she's correct again: parents Oh if she started following him around at night to see what he was up to and she likes you She was like. I was terrified of him like. I was scared that he would find me and do something to me, but a lean. My daughter is my daughter. I need to find out what happened to her holy shit.
business. She would just follow him around at night in her car, and this will break your fucking heart. She had this gut feeling that he was response for whatever happened to lean, but just in case lean did run away. She left her outside light on every single night. Encase Celine came home, oh man, that stuff really always destroys, may just those little things like tat because it puts you in her shoes. She so convinced that in being realistic, unfortunately not her daughter, Polly was heard but she's a mom in theirs alone. We always there that one little piece of you that's like, but maybe I'm wrong. It is like tar, calicoes parents, Patty and John putting the voice nephritis midsummer their gifts in her room waiting for her to come back because and if you are wrong, the manure like, oh yeah, you know so and you just think of that Probably just are constantly thinking of that moment where they walked back in the door and on
let us finally www living on. I was just going to say, amounts Molly. What they're looking for yeah, that's what you survive with and success, and now the casement called because the police didn't give a shit. Apparently so, a year after a lean was killed. Charles was dating a seventeen year old girl named Gretchen Fritz. The Gretchen went to a private wool and Charles actually saw her like a local park one day, that's how they met aggressions, father, was super while liked in the community. He was seen like a community leader. He also worked as a heart surgeon and it will add that at the time he was one of the nation's leading heart surgeons she's. So just like a casual do dino own she's, gorgeous God. Just now. She wasn't exactly well liked, though she didn't get along with the girls that she went to school with, because she didn't really have a lot in common with them. She was also known to be like a troublemaker she kind of but actually to stir the upon a little bit like she showed up to a school dance with these two guys that were dressed like very bow and at the time that was not good,
at her private school, and they were like Cairo areas. I love it. Excuse me, but one of her too you said that she was quote erotic, subversive and a psychopathic liar. Woe yet suggests that better turn a deaf ear it's ok now after spawning her at the park Charles followed her home because romance, and he on the door, and he said, don't. I know you know the answer as always No, even if you do know them, no, no! No! No! You don't know me. Gretchen had seen him in the park looking at her and she thought that the fact that he was taking interest in her like this. It was so romantic so that date, spent an hour talking with each other and after that they were completely inseparable, mostly because Gretchen would not. let Smitty Boy out of her sight, everyone cleaning Charles himself, which, like fuck his opinion, but everyone else said that she was super controlling and she would call him every second of the day if they work together to find out where he was and what he was doing dim
Now Charles, not only felt like Gretchen was getting to clinging, but she also admitted to him that while she was on vacation in California, she quote went out on him, which means like obviously, she cheated yeah. I wouldn't have done I went out on you, so he lost it and he told her. He was gonna break up with her, but the problem with that was that he had also told her that he was responsible for airlines murder. Not only did he tell her, He drove her out to a leans grave signed to show her to see if she loved him. Why he was like I'm going to show you something to make sure you love me and she said she would, I believe, no I don't wanna know any of that. That point I billing- oh my god, I'm so a number, the piano and go to the police and idyllic. I'm I accidentally fell in love with this. Guy was a murderer and help me whoops, so yeah He told her all about that, and then he was a king in a break up with you and she was like cool I'm here, Tell everybody that you murdered lean that and don't do that, an
Some of you do well. Some people said that Gretchen knew of more than just a leans murder and that there was actually one other murder. Now there was little huge rumours and town that there was an additional murder, but on August 16th, one thousand nine hundred and sixty five gretchen and her little sister Wendy, headed out to see an Elvis film at the drive in Gretchen was driving, and it would be the last night that anybody saw those two girls live God now the police, who apparently didn't think it was strange that three girl the very similar ages in the same area, had turned up missing within a year and they told the Gretchen and Wendy's father that the girls polyps railway, guys that can't be or go to that Not the default here, namely, and discover a runaway like. We now have three girls around. see me, I mean to say you gonna, run the same age in the same area that have turned up missing within a year Her little sisters like how old, like thirteen, thirteen years old, come on guys really
Gretchen in Monday's father was not taking that answer. Just like a leans mother, he actually high p. I named bill. He leg, I think I saw you say it to find out where they had gone or what happened to them now bill had multiple people working under him at all times, any clues and one night they found crutches car parked behind the Flamingo Hotel in Tucson inside the car. Was her purse filled with money Lou? So that tells you something that's a little concerning Now what had what what had happened was that somehow Charles had tracked Gretchen and her sister Wendy down and convince them to come back to his house. Now, one night he told us Pell Richie their exactly what happened. Richie later wrote a book about this all because, as will find out, Richie pulls the sound alarm no the book he wrote is called. I squealer does less wheeled both may
I've ever gets like a super, quick reed I witnessed squealer, I squealer it was a quick read. It was like maybe ten bucks on Amazon, and it's got some good info fact. I'm pretty obsessed with it myself, but so in the buggy that one night he was just sitting with Charles in the living room like in trials is living room and Charles blurted out. You know I killed her. Oh, and then he went on to say you know where I did it here in the living room. I really dont know Why would I know? I don't know that really Richie partly did know that, though, because while everybody knew that Airbus knew that he said first, I killed Gretchen, then Wendy was still going ha ha ha like, I think, making whimpering noises and strangled Wendy as well and went on to say that I took the bodies and I put them in the trunk of the car. I put them bodies in the most obvious place I could think of because I just didn't care anymore than I did the car and I wiped it clean. I why
I really I don't like him now. It's a rarity upset aid so weird because he loved Gretchen, like he cooling, quote, loved her he was like obsessed, the two of them were literally obsessed with each other, and then he just snapped on her the second that she was. Gonna go against him. This happens, though, in these cannot be. I like these diabolical yard and like in Brady in Mire Hindley in this that they reminded me of the relationship to seven make any sense in your like. Do they care about each other, they hate each other. I can't decide, I think it's good, but we don't understand yeah. I dont want understand. So that's good. Now, like I said, Richie was not shocked. Hearing this news, because he already knew that Charles had killed the lean they had been hunting together one day and I'll just decided to take him out to the desert and show him exactly where a lean was buried. Guys. Who can we all eight? May we go to the police
yeah, I mean, I know the police are doing a great job so far. No, but maybe if you give it and concrete evidence like where vs varied yeah maybe say like, I know where the grave as exactly now there was a lot of people in town. I don't know exactly who saw the grave other than Gretchen and Richie, but it seems Everybody knew that this was going on in didn't, tell the police God in her poor family, and there was like a ton of kids, came forward and said, even if they did no, they wouldn't have squealed on many ass. He was, he was like the Pied piper in town crazy late hours, people they didn't care that, since it's like this weird, like phenomenon that has given any this weird collective psychosis that everybody's just like it's ok, then he's Billy murdering teenage girls. But that's exactly why he's more got that groovy mole on his face, his eye, you walks and Tin cans Lincoln in Clang and around, but that's why he ended being called the Pied paper ass, he ended up just for you
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Ok. So now I'm fucked like I can't go to the police because who's to say not going to turn around impending on me and my prince are now on them. Dude everyone was being a fuckin, that's just dumb as follows: literally just that even zero sympathy for you Richie the absolute dumbest now a few he's later after they had gone out to the desert together. Richie got a call from Charles saying that he was gonna, be having a party and link. Would you Sir Richie had been dating. This girl called Cathy Morass at the time and he had been so convinced that she was going to become Charles as next victim that he was like borderline stocking her to make sure that she was safe. Now, if he was gonna go to this party, he would know exactly where child, where Charles was and at least have some kind of peace of not peace of mind for one night, oh NASA like he knows where, Charles that Cathy Safe, because virtues main concern became Cathy linked to the point of like obsession.
So use airy, rickety plan needs could have not hungry now and when he got there, there was not a party going on at all horse. There was, and Charles wasn't even there- no easy lymphatic, but what I want to get you away from Cathy, you would think diabolical. You would think comments. This is this takes a twist. No one would expect So there was just a small group of new friends that Charles had been hanging out with just hang out no of Europe but the sudden Charles walked in, and they had been there for, like maybe like twenty thirty men she said it was a wild for a child came back and, like you guys, are all just waiting for him like what the fuck this guy had like power over so Charles walks in with these two other guys that had never seen before, and one of them was just like: hey you, Richie right and he was like a hot now he asked if he would go the man asked it. Will you go for a ride with
ass. No, so I don't know if it she thought he was gonna go, get look at, I dont know if he thought he was getting arrested or if you have any idea what was going on, but he said that he just did what he was told. Why I don't know in my mind I was like. Did you like? I think he thought he was getting arrested, richer needs to lake to come on REACH Richie was wild and chief now Sir Charles went along for the ride to, but not before, telling Richie that these two guys were from the mafia. Oh boy, now the mafias involved, the ol boy and that they had been coming around lately and asking about Gretchen and Wendy. He told Richie that he had been too a place where they were going and not to worry. They weren't gonna get hurt, they just have to talk to them, but not tell them the truth. You trust him light, I feel that a plan trust me nothing bad will come of this right now whenever they went that night at a total mystery, it was just like a random apartment building, but there were a lot of men in their whose names would be
come notorious with the New York Mafia in the years to come, and they were already pretty notorious at the time one good now, Charles Bats, Battalion LEO was their Joseph, oh bananas, Banana son, Salvador Banana was there as well as Joe Banana Junior. The nano I think it might be is a banana I think its banana banana. I don't know that maybe like neither do I, but these are not aren't exactly the guys that you want to question you about the disappearance of two girls that you know for a fact have been murdered and you know exactly where they were murdered and where they currently are Maria. If it's the bananas I'm thinkin of than yet no I'm sure, it is because these are like Lebanon of Zyobor not end of attacking us, while Lake Tahoe want to fuck around with that. So Richie told them that he had no idea what happened to either girl, because he was fucking terrified that if he did, he wouldn't maybe big. by them or get killed by Smitty yeah because Smitty Terrifying, Charles Smitty Schmid. There told them that, actually
Gretchen had been on vacation to California, not too long before her disappearance and he knew, that she had run away there to be with the guy that she had cheated on him with. He said he specifically because they were like. Why do you that like. Why are you so company out why we should not tell you that any like? Well, I knew that she wanted to run away and I actually taught her how to run away before that all happened and they rang we're like if she ran away than why did we find leg? Why did the police find her car with her person money inside of it, and he was like? I told her to do that till I throw the cops off while the confidence. This guy has width of losing my fear of unique and in the way, most. She Dickie story, I've ever heard he has a lot of confidence telling into the marking the obviously, but then he fucked up, yeah really, and he told them. I wish I could just go out there, because I know that if I was able to go out there and that question people I'd be able to find her
and so they were like ok, cool, let's arrange that link to my dude the mafia. They make sure that that is their whole job. Your wishes there command. They literally really cool, set Bertha India and they did we. Of course they do, but not before Charles went home and call J. Edgar Hoover himself like tried to get in touch with you EDGAR Hoover scald him up on the ball, the FBI I was like please help me. I need protection from the mafia and they were like yeah. We don't just do that, so they will come talk to you. our out this they were sending someone type power will be that a lot of literally so they said that they were sending someone and he was like hoof, but then
mafia themselves shut up in there like. Let's go to Kelly Buddy once their green colleagues who are not going to sleep, a movie allegory bringing you up, and I know you were with the FBI tomorrow, but we had a closer link. Do they ve put in your house, you think your fuckin houses tapped leg Jesus, while Zelda dumb. They went out to California, but Charles was arrested in California San Diego to be spent on August twenty Eightth he was on the beach impersonating an FBI agent, stop and questioning girls on the beach, obviously trying to pretend that he was trying to find Gretchen in one day so that these mafia got mafia, guys one and take care of him? This is wild, it didn't say, misread but bananas and spend on oh. I was gonna get but when he was brought to the police station, the police held him there for an hour and a half and they asked tons of questions about Gretchen one day because they're like why are you on a beach pretending to be enough? Be I agent?
we also questions about these girls. Like you get answers them cross seems like it, but there wasn't enough. hold him on and actually while they were questioning him, they were notified by the police back into. Saw that he had already been talk to you. He had already been question about this previously because he's the boyfriend, but they they were like no he's, not a suspect, like you can. Let him go being made while took so he was able to be like oh and things quieted down these British Airways sneak out of these being the only way out of it, but not for long. They re always end up getting caught, but there's always a few times that you're like he got out There's only nine lives, though, that allow of no. Between September in October of nineteen, sixty five Charles really kept that creepy asshole status on lock. He married fifteen year old girl cows, get the fuck I'm married a fifteen year old girl named Diana, my goodness now
all who had we had talked about earlier. He shot a guy in Reno. Now that are not actually by two thousand men into some now he had been out of prison at some point and he confronted I was about to marriage being like what the fuck you doing married to a fucking fifteen year old and but for she had recently turned fifties. Exec, hey you big grow is fresh out of them. I know I just shot of men in Tucson, but this is real down different thousand accident. I guess, but he was like you're twenty three. What the fuck are you doing married to this little, get your growth, apparently when policy, fronted him. Charles lost his shit, punched, a hole through the wall right and out of his own house in his underwear in started. dumping back and forth over the fence screaming God is gonna, punish me over and over and over again yeah sounds like there's somebody item unchecked stuff going on here, I think they're diamond leave as and I think he was really at this point, starting to just deteriorate from now. Bin Laden,
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sixty with lifelong join now and save twenty five percent or more off your first year at Norton, Dotcom, slash, morbid, that's Norton, dot com, slash morbid to save time. five percent, so Paul reader. That story to Richie who, by that point, was essentially losing his mind with fear and guilt and probably about four hundred and seventy two other emotions yet, which is why you don't see a recently Doug grave from murder victim and just Billig o cool. Not only that don't do that may be will be riddled with guilt in shit. Oh no, not only that so he saw that and then he saw two dead bodies. So that is what I read them once you start here, We laid down a path that you're gonna, see some other shit and then you're, going involved with bad people who are gonna scare. The shit out of you for the regular lady are so now do just don't do Richie himself. Was fucking up because I suddenly forty two times that he was essentially stocking, Cathy because he was so sir, he couldn't tell her
obviously like why he was so scared because he was so literally just being a stalker. He was just literally stocking are to the point where her family had him arrested for harassment, goods that my friends is when should starts to unravel. Oh no, so Richie headed out to Ohio, because the judge told him to skipped town until his quote: infatuation was over with o about how that works out here. You're just gonna tell the sixties, kilts till you. Right. You, ten GAD, lend you can come back and like it is. You have to show a picture that little bit like I'm over coffee thy low pay- I don't get it do, isn't like some big like X, Ray machine that shows if his heart goes like some thump, you know around is all bent. So why is it that a normal rate, so his grandmother lived in Columbus, Ohio and he was gonna, go stay with her for a while, so the entire time he was there, he wasn't able to contact Cathy cause. You know no contact orders battles and he was still really concerned that Cathy was gonna, be Charles as next target, especially now that he was gone because
he sat on one occasion. Obviously we know who trials is, but we he also had like some some reason to be scared, because Charles had said to him once that they should go, dig up Gretchen body and hang her by a new son, Cathy's porch, to show Cathy what could happen to her? If she didn't stand line, woe again, he suggested that they dig up there corpse of his own ex girlfriend. Hang her on the porch of his friends girlfriend to show her. What could happen to her if she did and stay in line? Is this game of throw What is the snake? What I am also gives me like we're billion stew vibes. Also somehow a makes me feel like he's part of the land masters, and I'm not here, for I don't even know who is putting a lot, I would say: he's more em fuck in the gross one from Harry Potter, the gross room from one from Harry Potter Guy, if you haven't seen him
France skip over this key gets his throat slipped by area, which is fuckin, name wilder, Frank Walter, He has me Walter frame ideas, a wilder disease, yeah yeah right, ok, but so that's why Richie was so concerned, so one riches, distant mare with Jima, and he will it's out every thing to this or elderly, while my goodness your poor grandma, I mean everything and she literally was like I thought that he was just drunk, because I heard beer can do crazy shit to your mind. He doesn't do that crazy shit gmo yourself here she was like. If everything you're telling me is true, you need to call the police that was the night of November eight nineteen sixty five and he did indeed call the police
who didn't come until the next morning, which I was a little confused about, because I was a new shrilly. Go there like stat, oh, that it shocking lay ten. Moreover, they are they ve done such a great job. So far, that's really that's will daily knots, and this is a different police department. Honestly, at this time, unlike this is not out of there. Are you guys doing it all goes too far ahead there just like listen to the radio were they just vibrating. There is a list of the radio. I suggest vibe okay to eat his Bible Anastasia, so they showed up the next day and they took Richie with them to the station. He made a full confession to them about everything that happened, and he said he could take them to wear Gretchen and Wendy's bodies were, but that there might have also when a fourth girl- and he didn't know where she was, but he said that everyone, town with saying that Charles had killed a fourth girl and not was like a huge part of the reason why he had killed Gretchen She could not only where she gonna say that he had killed lean, but this other girl as well. So they flew him out
night back to Tucson in the very next morning. He led them to where he said. Gretchen and Wendy would be sure enough. They were there so now they just had to get Charles and Richie warned, and now they just had to get Charles and Richie warned them that they would never get a confession of him because he had told Richie if I'm ever caught I'll, never confess that way, they never know and then not knowing what torture them. Why, like he said what we always assume literally had like. He just told us, like hey insider tip from sight, go crazy, evil, fathoms dredges. this is why we do that like guys, how many times have we said like they definitely do that, just like make the torture last forever and he's like yeah he's like no, that's literally when I'm gives, like I coins that term our long term. First, like first language, you literally said that according to Richie, that's wildly for so remember, Mary Rooney, French yeah,
ass. She was arrested on November fifteenth nineteen, sixty nine and Bolton Texas, Good Richie heads that she was lying about a leans murder and he knew for a fact that she witnessed the entire thing that hot advance guard it lighter too, but ultimately, she was charged with concealing and compounding a felony and being an accessory to in smarter. Now, the Arizona Daily STAR reported on December twenty first nineteen sixty five quote: displaying not a fluke of emotion, Mary RE, French Aslant, a slender nineteen year old Burnett, hurt herself sentence yesterday to spend four to five years in state prison. She was out of prison within three years for good behaviour, dont for good behaviour and for working in prisons doth through years? That's a travesty! John Saunders plead guilty to second degree murder and he got life in prison good. He was
nineteen years old when he was sentence, and at his sentencing he told the judge, I dedicate the rest of my life to make myself a better person to live with cool. I won't matter the joy. allowed him to have Christmas with his family and he was sent to prison the very next day. Yet it doesn't matter now nobody there's? No, I was just like, I think, that's kind of low. I mean like ITALY. Nobody cares if you're gonna become a better person because you're a terrible is it doesn't matter in the attic We have already taken a human life. There forever go. Fuck yourself by Richie only got one here of probation for his entire role in that case, probably because he was the one that led them tallest now, both Marian John testified in court during Charles Schmitz trial. Charles had tried to say that it was Richie who is responsible for all this saga shocked, that's what he was planning all along and a lot people in town actually believes that, because Richie had all the inside knowledge about all of the murder, Cn Charles would never do known ever and and basically that's what it was like
there are still under his fuckin crazy ass spell now. Luckily, the jury did not believe that and trawl Schmid was sentenced to death for murdering Gretchen and Mary Fritz and got an additional fifty years to life when he pleaded guilty to the second degree murder of a lean row, but then in nineteen, seventy, two temporarily, first and last forever, the? U S Supreme Court declared capital punishment was unconstitutional, and so his sentence was commuted to life in prison merit now in June of sick. Sixteen, ninety seven, I almost well taken your way back. You know what you got a time: machine no endued of nineteen. Sixty seven Smitty claimed that his lawyer convince TIM to plead guilty to Aline's murder, but that her body would show that he hadn't bludgeoned. Her, therefore maintaining his innocence, Pellinore survey zoomed, her body but sure enough. She had massive skull fractures yet core. It was just a way for him to waste their time and away from him, probably to relieve the murder gathers. He was there. He had to go with them to Julia, to show
where the body was definitely for his benefits. There is a famous picture that will pose associated with the case and its of his like giant handcuffed, hands. Tat, king her skull and he was telling them the entire time, be careful with the cranium its delicate. It can prove my innocence. Why? Like? What part of you I mean? I'm gonna, ask this question, but I already know the incirlik. What part of you thought that this was gonna work I known hitting But then let me answer not myself. I didn't. I know that he didn't think this was gonna work. I guarantee you. He was just fuckin boy in prison was like. How can I continue to torture everybody around me? How can I go to the crime scene? How can I realize this whole thing? I would like to see her still yeah that whole. Oh, my god, you see the picture yeah the banana via my. Why did they allow him to touch her at the fact that they allowed him to touch her is so such a slap in the face to end One who loved her and her lady got is.
doping. Religiously disrespectful, you know the second he touched her. He was just remembering ever know for sure I got so Fox for sure, so that so far and were not even done yet modest Fucker was in prison. He tried multiple times to escape and unknown Amber Eleventh Nineteen, seventy two while he was in prison. an Tucson. He actually did escape with a good buddy that he made in prison named Raymond Huggins, Raymond was in prison for three murders. Now they ended up successfully escaped and they ended up in a engineer, temp and took on four hostages, civil just decided to let those hostages go and split up here and now. Golly. They were captured within a matter of days me keep that Google images up because when he was found, Troll Schmid was wearing a gigantic Take women's blonde wig the I see it to the poor. Sure you I you're just like what is up there. There's there
is really no describing it. You have to see that the thing I dont know how to even describe it to: u other than absolutely ridiculous. He's wild looking wild in Thailand, one thousand nine hundred and seventy four. He changed his name to Paul David Ashley because he thought that might help his chances of getting rehabilitated no just like. If I have a different name and also like. Why would you choose three that just proves you're sick? Yeah! That's enough! Now, when not attempting to escape from prison, Charles was actually getting really into the world of poetry, and he was actually good at it. He rode out his but real pop his own poems all the time and he got so confident he sent some of them to a professor at the University of Arizona, the professor was actually very impressed with Charles's work and said that he was talent. Ed and he would mark up his work, incorrect, different things and then send it back to him come on, so they just became like pen. Pals. Don't do that now? here is the what had he said again, PS to live resistance, apiece terrorism, stone that thank you
too many like why I like us to that now on Mars, twentieth nineteen. Seventy five trawls got into a very intense fight with two other inmates and he was stabbed almost fifty times, whoops gipsy. Ah he got stuff. in one of his eyes, eager stabbed into the long, and also into his intestines at the hospital. They had room. his eye? They had to stitch up his long and they also had to give him a tracheotomy, those in their right yeah awesome. Now After all, they did. He still got a blood infection and he died ten days later on March Thirtieth nineteen, seventy five man, peace, the fuck out, what
thing now his mother decided to have him buried in the prison cemetery cause. She was worried that if he was buried unlike their plot of land, that people just to file has grave patently for sure, and she and his father were left with all of the legal fees that he had accumulated. Ah, all of the legal fees, LA yeah, now Charles's case got a lot of public attention. Obviously, and people all over the world were talking about how just cold and evil he was and how crazy this case, what that so many teenagers came forward like I sighed and said that they knew all about it, but never had their parents never told police, because that's terrible heap. They were under his spell man, so that I don't know if you ve ever seen the movie smooth talk. I've never seen. No, it wasn't I'd buy him. It was also inspired by the short story that was originally inspired by the case called. Where are you going? Where have you been, and that's by Joyce Carol? Oats? Oh so yeah? Well you that that is the case of the Pied Piper ass, though
was such a ride. I did this. I don't even have words anymore, those poor girl seriously, but this is one of the most interesting cases, though, that I think I've ever covered just for its the amount of just like Lou. sent back. When you got an boot, some mafia, you got the impact of a mafia, just made a quick up like you. I am here to slink not like an unnamed cameo in here earlier ideas like wow, I even you got a plan is an especial guests. The mafia, like up, oh, oh cool, credit, look running and then the prison escape. Like all of it. I in the whig, the Whig, the whig. Really that allow Richie wrote a book, I'm squealer highest squealer, so much to unpack guys. I was a lot. It was so much now. Thank you.
for that you're. Welcome, so guys we hope you keep listening. We hope you heap at here, but I believe that any of this applies to you ever to achieve this- it is growing
Transcript generated on 2021-08-01.