Y’all, if you haven’t heard of the Erdington murders then you’re in for a doozy. Ash goes over the case of two young women, Mary Ashford and Barbara Forrest who were murdered 157 years apart in Erdington. The way that the two cases mirror each other is just so bonkers and will have you questioning if some kind of Fear Street witch cursed the area. Oh also there’s a trial by combat, so there’s that. As always, thank you to our sponsors: Norton Lifelock: Join now and save twenty five percent or more off your first year at Norton.com/MORBID HelloFresh: Go to HelloFresh.com/morbid14 and use code morbid14 for up to 14 free meals plus free shipping! Stamps.com: With promo code, MORBID, you get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage and a digital scale! BetterHelp: Special offer for Morbid listeners: get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/MORBID
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey weirdos. I am ashen, I'm Alina, and this is movie in the morning It's in the modern age may even have coffee and everything I kind of illegal IRAN. Liquor like a talk show. Yet. My mother, today show with Willie Geiss Mug line, says I put a spell on you. Things does its other just like, but if it is called not, I do my minister. I got to get ready to get my like larynx ready for this slightingly x. Is that
voices out of your full of biscuit by I took a bit. Gulping was called by an astute like ice cold by districts. It was like when I'm awake. It's weird. This is, I don't know I'm sorry about this, but I love iced coffee. But when I take a sip of coffee that supposed to be hot in its ice cold, I find it disgusting. I think everybody can agree with me. the weird humanity thing if it wants to see you weren't intending device garfish suits, I didn't intend that your intention set your intentions. Everybody coffee your coffee? What the fuck is tell your coffee, together with its cage with its locally this just didn't giant White Roper impact up eating back because Gatwick to wear the secret to stick player. I think it's really not a hook with it was just like stupid, buddy, Are we really know what we were talking in a mirror like? What's
none in the true crime world. There's a lot of shit going down there's like a lotta random had Biden stuff go on, but it was like everything. That's happy We need to make a full case. So I think I'm gonna get right into this, because I more I'm not the one thing. A mix of latent need to hear more about Such is the summer whilst case and every time. I check this really nothing happening like a couple, small updates, but nothing about where she is yeah legged. Basically, it's it's really just the same. the same of the same of the same, and I think that the only thing that we can hope is that, because there is really no updates, as that they're keeping quiet and let me say that being close to their chests, because their hopefully close and have some kind of leads. I hope soak as that cases really really bugging me out. If you don't know that case just Google Summer wells and I will end on each year on opposition. We did a peach round up a sort of other, but it- and I think everybody has their opinions on what actually happened here yeah, but I need answers. I need it
says, there's there's always three sides to a store. You ass mine in the true, and I really like to know the truth. I just want to know, and I want or found she societies, one around no matter what needs to happen here? She was only five years old. She is beautiful, wilfully, so fuckin q and it's like I just want or found. no matter what way it is I just she needs to. She needs to be found lying at least like any part of the family closure assets. Its Berman me out a huge power again, there's no update, I keep hoping that some day we're gonna get on here, I'm feeling I ask what there's an update. We like here, you go and they go on running around alive. I love that. I mean the bit of the very odd that it's been weeks and weeks and weeks at this point. For you know, it's happened to tides happened. That's for sure. Physically nodded it's not a great outlook, but world maintain hope now wall what thought being signed. I think we should just like operate into today's episode.
had been this week. I am going to bring you down one of the wildest rabbit holes that we have ever launched ourselves into a wall. You just really soul. I sold an honest, I'm gonna bring it. I'm gonna bring a bitch cool, it's like kind of like a case within a case and in the true crime world. This case is known as the earning ten march serving to murder Clinton. Murders now earning ten is like a place in the: U K, okay, so I debate Did I UK? Ok, you guys, I like debated on telling you like right up front the wild similarities between the two cases that we're gonna go over, but I think it's gotta be more fun to kind of realise them yourself as at folds, and they will go over them at the end. Ok, let's get into it. The two victims that we're gonna cover today are Mary, Ashford and Barbara Forest and we're gonna start with Mary Ashford. see your face moving over there, and here I want you not know that I don't think I know it feels a little familiar, but it might just be when I was reading
I feel Mary Ashford like feels like an adult or their death, while Marianne referred a twenty year old girl. She was living with her uncle named John Coleman in urging ten in eighteen seventeen. So some time ago, we- but you in your time machine and he went all the way back. You know I love and eighteen hundreds evaluation. I love you so Mostly, everyone in town knew who she was like everybody in that area, new everybody. It was like a working town, and everybody really liked her on May twenty six, which was wit Monday. I do know what wit Monday No, it isn't. I had never heard of it. It's a pentecostal holiday and its to recognise the holy ghost. Arrival on Jesus, his disciples, oh- and I think it's like when the holy ghost like became a thing- that's intend yeah, it's it's a truly. Is this developed these days for every step of that situation. I think there s arm so by this illness was like a special day and Mary, and her friend named Hannah Coxe had plans to go to a dance being held at the Tiber House.
Was a local in and it was also known as the three tons, and so I dont know, if really changed names at some point, but its known as both ok but the dance was to celebrate the holiday so that morning, Mary dropped, a change of clothes off at Hannah's, home and earning TIM and then made her the Birmingham to sell some goods at the market over her uncle that she will have to read the she was them like I've made for him, basically like a housemaid and she would go to the market and so like his dairy products, Sir, oh anything like produce and everything I got that far yeah, she was just sell in all the stuff, Sellen all staff and all the goods that you are willing to make Zanna. So she spent most of the day there at the market, and then she made her way back to Hannah's house and got their around six p m. They got ready together for the dance and they were like super excited, even though earlier not weak, Mary had told Hannah's mother that she quote and back. Feelings about the week to come. Whew,
Parliament s premonition now everyone who knew Hannah Unmarried, they both were described as being like super. Pretty outgoing girls, like I said everybody pretty much new Mary everybody also New Hannah cause. They were like sisters, okay, so throughout the night it wasn't super weird that they danced with a future print suitors suits. I love towards suitors. I don't know why Most of them only. My Hannah danced with a man named Benjamin Carter now in some sources, I read that he was her fiance and then another source, as I read that he was just a man's? Oh wow, so I went differ and though the structures hissing callously, maybe its role to do or patrols struggling stranger literally, could be the same. Who knows Eighteen hundred there's a lot of circumstances here. Words like it says one thing, and it also says five other thing you I just went with what I saw them most eighteen hundreds and what I saw the most was that she just met have not ok, so she was dancing and Benjamin bedroom. bans, romanian, vermin
Mary danced with a man named Abraham Thornton, my god. I love all these people named Frank but so around midnight, the four of them all left together, but down the line they split up and you're never spoke to do that. Hannah ended up walking home alone, which They are also in that respect. I don't do that. Benjamin either went back to the dancer, went home depending on the source. You look out who knows eighteen, seventeen, but one thing is for sure, Marian Abraham stuck together, ok and when Mary finally got back to Hannah's to change into her word clothes because remember her all close right hand, this house, oh yeah, she cut back at four in the morning damn so she had herself a night. I didn't opium, party like that in eighteen hundred. Neither did I and I felt so seem a little glass girl go to a dance like Bianca, and then go to work for the good I've never done during the four in the morning, but but when you down here, she Mary told Hannah that she and Abraham Thort Thornton? It's like thorn, I keep thinking here and say: Thornberry
gotta women die, they offer very ears the wireless TIM current. That's what I think you picture ignite old Thornberry. Please continue to do so. Please do so. Please continue to do so by Mary told Hannah that she and Abraham Thornton had spent the rest of the night together, but that he was heading back home now And enhanced that Mary seem to be in a pretty good mood. If you know what I mean, oh so she was like round swan. Somewheres is red shirt gee. I guess with a little something like Mary was like in a hurry aping. I dont know if she was like getting to workers use in a hurry to get some sleep. I know what you're up to she's gonna spending the night at her grandpa's house not far. She left quickly. After changing, she took her party clothes with her and she was seen walking by a few witnesses at four hundred and fifteen, a dot m. A man named Joseph Dawson, which I there's always a man named Joseph Dawson in the eighteen hundred, so young a name it man named Joseph Daul. I feel you see shit links out he's, ok,
and he did. He saw Mary. What could he saw her and then ten minutes later another man, Thomas Broadhurst, said then he also saw her walking out. They said she walking alone down Bell Lane, which made sense because she had told Hannah. She was gonna, go to her grandfathers house and he lived on Balin LUCA. But what was it First to me was that any witness who saw her between three and four thirty said that she was alone and that she seemed to be in a hurry and was walking very quickly so Nothing obviously seem to be wrong when she got to him as a kind of such using good spirits and everything. But then it's like those two witnesses saw her after, like really noted that she was walking quickly and in a hurry, like languishes late for I don't know if she's late for work or then you kind of wonder like did she feel like she was being followed. Maybe
I initially made my gut feeling was. Usually work are not worth it. That's what I know you never know who buy. It would be more than four hours before Mary was seen again. It feels like everything we do. Online comes with some risk buying a pair of socks online son, simple enough, but then the online store wants as much personal information from you as possible. What is your credit score? Your eye, color blood type mothers made a name or your social security number have to do with buying a pair of socks. No one wants to be unsafe online, but every time you give up and following privacy, you may give up a little safety to Norton. Three sixty would lifelong helps. You keep your digital life safer with device security
a vps to keep your wifi activity, private and identity theft protection all in one. No one can prevent all cyber crime or identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses, but you can choose to be safer. Online. Just opt in to cyber safety with Norton. Three sixty would lie, flock join now and save twenty five percent, or more of your first year at Norton, Dotcom, slash morbid Norton dot com, slash morbid to save twenty five percent so early, and aiding am on May twenty seventh and what would be later become pipe. Hey is park. A factory worker named George Jackson stumbled across a crimes, Oh now, a lot of the sources that I saw said that he was firstly, the one to find marries body, but it's not true. That also reported, because I found this wicked old newspaper his testimony in it and he said that he found the bloody clothing and then went to the nearest house to get
help, but he never actually saw the body be had to work. He was I had to go he's a you know it. this body clothes, but I got a clock. I can't be late. Sorry, and I was late last week, they're gonna get splendid. I'm gonna get can't me and my family Brad here you know come on think of number one he did so he had to get to work, but he got some other people in Vienna. He was actually on his way to work when he found blood was the bonnet pair of shoes and the bundle of clothing belonging to marry, and it was bloody, he looked closer and realise that one of the shoes was covered in blood. Now these were new shoes. Mary had gotten these for the dance all that sad now and help her I'd arrived. Mary Ashford body was found. She was only five hundred yards. Away from her house like her own house, her arms were severely used and she was lying in a pool of muddy water like shallow, muddy water.
Was later determined at her cause of death was drowning in the shallow water and also that she had been sexually assaulted before being killed. Why now so they were able to determine that she drowned because they found duck weeds and her stomach, and I just found that really impressive for eighteen seventeen, that is, I thought I was like really interesting. Yeah, look, a frenzied pathology and San. I mean we quickly goes down help. I woke will go that for a second guess the shining moment, you're welcome, knock you off the Petzold national, usually so quickly. The police found out that the last person Mary had been seen with other than when she stopped and Hannah's house was Abraham Thornton, so he was brought in for questioning and he could not believe it. He offered to the investigators that he indeed had been with Mary that night and that they did have consensual sex together, but that afterwards he either walked heard directly to or halfway to Hannah's house like opening on the source, not like an inconsistency in the story he
did for her to come back, but you never return. So he just headed home and remember hand said that when Mary was there, she said that Abraham had headed, oh she said like. I hung out with him, but he's on his way home. Ok, but then he said that he was waiting for her and many had at home, service Irene did she. Maybe she didn't realize that he was waiting for her, so she never returned. He goes on his way. Now there are three witnesses that corroborated his out his ally. I was going to his allies alibi and one of which was a man named John Hayden. He said that he talked to Thorn Thornton for close to twenty minutes around the time that Mary would have been killed and it was two miles away, so they said it would have taken the average person half an hour to walk that far, and it would have taken him like an hour to do everything that was done to her. So it didn't make any. and yet, if that was true, if he had said he would have the link sprint litter,
into himself was now only shocked that Mary had been killed, but also that he was even being accused of this, because you, from the area and note around town as a farmer in a bricklayer, a law like some people, thought of him rude or immature, but no one necessarily expected him to be the guy to like snap and murder his own date yeah. and earning ten was just a really safe, quiet, town, full of just honest workers back then and, like I said, they all knew each other, and nothing like this had happened before January unprecedented. When he was questioned, he told the police. I cannot believe she is murdered why I was with her until four o clock this morning who, however saucy allegedly they found blood on him and the footprints leading and footprints leaning back to his father's house that looked similar to the ones that were spread about at the crime scene, Womb Thornberry, but I also feel Thornberry. I also feel egg back then a lot of footprints, probably look D left me, those like say how many different leg pattern:
I am of the view. I literally thought you were going to say exactly what I like how many different pairs of boots were there to act, that, unlike how many different patterns on the bottoms of boots were like there's, probably one bootmaker in town. I really would like an energy share and all they knew how to do was like they were. Like we figured out how to make a tread, So we're just wait: you're just intrepid value get, but I guess you kind of have to give it to them back then the investigators they retry. That's all they got. Not only now do you, you got a lease save sure we tried the same boot. They also lead boards over the prince so that they wouldn't be disturbed me why they really tried their best to preserve the crime scene back them right. So why are we not going off so the downgrading happened? You know I mean, but they're trying to do great They're just finding these footprints in their like, must be his footprints yeah. Ok, given the offer
Well, look good for that! I've been, I gave it to them. You didn't. I thought they were really fuck this up, though nobody really dangle you're fucking bad cop eight gets wilder since even studying the scene alone, they were able to determine that whoever did this likely snuck up on Mary and had probably been in the field waiting for her, because, rumour that wasn't a park, it would later become the part B of the prince leading up to the scene were normal strides and there was a pair. There was a like. They thought a woman's and a man's pair leading up to the same, but the ones leading away from the scene made it appear that the person responsible for this dumped her body and then ran strides where like much further apart again, I say this is a pretty impressive for eighteen and I thought so too every so they kept looking for leads, but Abraham Thornton was there only strong leaves, so they had to go with him.
His trial started August eighth and it was a hot cum laude, tee o like hot ticket. Hot ticket, even though it started like really early in the morning which for me a seven, a m, There were already huge crowds of people waiting outside to hear what was going to happen like hundreds of people. Just oh, yes, courthouse everyone their own opinion about what the verdict would be. This was the hot Goths devil loved it back then. Oh, I now when it was like totally fine to do yeah exactly guys, indifferent, I would have lived, we would have been there like. banning ourselves. Oh yeah have like a black parasol hell. Yeah big ass dress. Slowly, I would have cute choosing. I have some gotta know book I be written in all down and I just be there. So I can write it read a book about it under a pen name and pretend I was a man and sell it that way. I love that you'd like yours, really going for it area of huge aspiration. I knew I
a German I ask just wants to gossip townspeople typology girl. Did you hear about like you also, ok, and because there was also like some things that they heard that he said and willing, and it became like relevant in the trial which will get their everybody's wait outside there. What the hell's going to happen with this, an inside Mary Ashford family was waiting to hear the verdict. Now they themselves believed that Abraham Thornton was guilty mainly because he the only suspected cases and the police, like hardly looked at anybody else, in examining the prosecution bag to the jury, to find Thornton guilty. I was reading like some of the transcripts in a newspaper, and I was like, while the things that are going for they said they Shit ton of evidence on their side, but literally all of it was circumstantial YA, like as a basis
that they learned and their investigation, that other attendees of the dance heard Thornton stay that he was determined to have sex with Mary, because he had already slept with her sister three times, and he said he would sleep with her, though it shall cost me my life which, like number one objection, is that not hearsay and number two? Why would it cost him his life like to sleep with her? I don't even understand who I imagine he saying I think I'm gonna have to rape her in that's gonna cost me my life cause they're gonna catch me. Ok, that's what I'm thinking only flats mild. I mean the negotiated kind of discarded her a kind of subsidy did turn quarter of. I don't know I was now. I was there, I was not there. Have you know what a claiming I was there was that there was a pay. Now it only took Jerry six minutes to those Rick's waited from six minutes, because before they went to do so, the Judge Remit did them that most of this evidence that they heard throughout the trial was circumstantial like at best because, like some of it was barely circumstance,
Yes, some is. It was just like we made it a lot of our bottleneck. Now when they came back to read, the verdict was announced to the court that Mr Abraham Thornton was found not guilty. I figured but marries Brother William, was absolutely outraged immediately, demanded that there be second trial, who now. Needless to say, this was like way before double jeopardy became a thing here and back then were laws in place. That said, the jury's verdict could be appealed by a family member of a victim real, those laws actually change two years later in eighteen, nineteen, but not before Abraham Thornton second trial tat cream in Montana. Reminds me of the Rebecca nurse trial on the failing which child yeah she was acquitted, and then they re not really do an ample
got real pissed about it, we like, and then they were like: ok, you're, guilty mentally population. That's direct quote from the transcripts makin parties. Spell that I didn't. I don't even know it was an up to me was George. Corwin was the one who had two transcribe it not me, MR, but are John currents, give me, but Yet she was found guilty and then, like that's wilds me they're back then that was just like you found killed, ran someone's like wait, a second that pisses me off. These are ok, let's redo, this new has tried them guilty bow and hang them reg person. I know it interesting that they just we're like yeah. Let's redo that, unlike the Rebecca nurse trial in this one, there is a law that, like the family member, could be LEO, let's redo it, but it doesn't like, that's almost the same. It is it's like the accused, regular one. The accuser was the afflicted girls. If you will hear the one saying like I'm pissed about, then maybe it's the same kind of ruling, but it's just like that. Obviously there
Mr President, if it doesn't go that way, while sixteen ninety two was an eighteen hundreds, but that I mean this will under a lax rules really does didn't, have a role that legal cow could cover off the street, be like. Were there like a sorry, we got a wrong you're. What shall we do? They had to have this second trial, because William was, I know, redo. He put his thing done, footed and reverse. It mean good for him for give it a shot. He is she's your shot, so three months later, on November, seventeenth, eighteen, seventeen- that was when the second trial took place this time, Lord Ellen burrow was the one to originally than trial. Lord Edinburgh, Lord Ella, Barbara, I Lord in Burma, who I like that of it. So much now he was the one to oversee the trial which took place at the court of the king's bench. Hell yeah like in the newspaper was like the king verses, Mr Abraham Thornton. Oh, I love that
That's always like you know like this person versus the crown yeah you know like in Canada and shit yeah, that's really cool. I love it. I don't know. I love. I think it's cool, because that doesn't happen here. Now. Are you ready for this jelly ready with hollow fresh? You get fresh pre, measured ingredients and mouth watering. Seasonal recipes delivered right to your door, skip trips to the grocery store and count on Hell afresh to make home cooking, easy, fun and affordable. That is why it America's number one meal kit My favorite thing about hollow fresh is the flexibility that you get. You can easily customize your orders on the up within minutes. You can change your delivery day. You can change your food preference if you're, not in the mood for something you thought you are getting if you're.
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Package and I'm so excited anything with Adele is like my favorite thing upper and what I usually do, as if I'm still here, like working with Alina I'll, have drew, get out the prep work at that all sat, and then he can. I take a shower something. Why finish up dinner and then boom? It's ready to go and we can eat together and its literally. The easiest thing to do is also super easy clean up, because it doesn't require, like fifty seven pants, gotta, hello, fresh dot, com, sash, morbid fourteen and use code. Morbid. Fourteen for up to fourteen free emails, plus free shipping, again that's Helen Stop com such morbid fourteen and use could morbid fourteen for up to fourteen females plus free shipping. Abraham Thornton had had enough of this bullshit and he was ready to prove his innocence on his own and he's. Had to Lord Ellen Bureau. He said I am not guilty and I were defend myself with my body with my boss,
he also at that same time allegedly put a leather glove over his head as a throwing up the gauntlet. But what did not mean exactly Abraham Thornton was requesting a trial by mother Fucking Battle, Bitch shelly- I was just going to say- please tell me it's a dual. It was He was right, I'll buy battle. Now, even better Lord Alan Borough was allowing he was like. Let's do the oh, my god I love this is so game affirms its my there literally said that later literally games. It is so the case actually made legal history because trials by battling with they don't even know. Actually ever happened before this, while like other than like in the medieval times, but they definitely stopped happening like a long time before eighteen yeah. Now, if you have seen game of thrones. Essentially, what this man's was proposing was that he and William Ashford fight to the death, or until one of them was no longer able to fight, and then the person
standing when so, if William was able to incur incapacitate Thornton than he would be held responsible for the murder and be hanged, and if not, he would have to income incapacitate William to walk free, while yeah I'll buy bad a trial. I all battling don't really know about the whole other glove over his head. I saw that one source, but I had to throw it in their cause. It's like. Oh, I love you and I hope so and we took a leather global wishes like why would we paid over his head, but we put a glove over his head. Unless will actually maybe it was like the thing that you just said the key reason I wasn't any whacked out. I was thinking that you put it over this all. That's it's good that I have you walk through life Well, shit just take it. Like a really really welcome and when stretching like a balloon over their heads. I just I don't know what it is like.
I was not something I take it as taking it like throwing it over his head and legs rugged on a table because that's like throwing the guy you get it. It's fine Billina had to explain a lot of game of France to me as well Now so are we gonna have this trial by about already, thank God, I hope so Wash Williams, who, like literally go fuck yourself, I mean I would to address I'm not doing not use vehemently opposed to this whole trial by combat thing, and he refused to take part in this tomfoolery. Now I don't know if it was like that the idea was like so preposterous to him and that's. Why didn't go for it like music? We, like that's, not a thing. We don't do that. We need to do to help combat. We don't do that anymore or if it had something to do with Thornton size, because I couldn't find much to describe Williams built, but Thornton was described as over six feet tall and sick, like they litter
described to me their thick, like in eighteen hundred that stop artists. Actually, every word that I read referred to them as having thick featureless. That's what they have said that you had legs like tree trunks, any very large neck close. It also described him when you like, appeared in court for the first time and they were like he had become. They used a different word for lake illegal behemoth like they look like he had become very large. So he's not nice, author and stored recreated, no he's investing our possessions, nine literally the hall I I suppose, it was more like a all. This is stupid and be your gigantic and obviously right. There's recently set up a would then also like my parents were lost. Huge exam, gotta, lotta gonna happen and so when William denied the trial by combat idea, the decision when then went back to Ellen Vera. Who said that Abraham Thornton was free to go. He was not guilty of the murder of Maria,
why so, basically like William just like forfeited and then because of that Thornton was able to walk free scary could now he's like shown. His cards wanted. The only very there like one rainy, because now he's being like, I wanted you hanged and I tried to get you hanged again, but now you to walk free and just walk among me. Unlike what, if you did we're gonna, kill myself one you're pissed, because I tried to get you hanged when you were found guilty of cereals and if you did kill me sister. I have just accuse you of that again. So it's like well well shit. I government, to move on and get out of your live here honey. You say that play le before we get there elbow received a lot of criticism for not only letting Thornton off, but also entertaining the idea of a trial tat. Every one was like. Are you? Are you good cyrillic? We can't do that. If he's little finger, I Fiona think you're right. You just wanted for his entry at it, but to this day no other person has been too
four marries murder and there were really no other suspect now Walter. Hunton was still alive. He also faced a lot of criticism in the community and eventually things got so bad for him. Then he had to move to America while in it took him to attempts to do that. Actually, The first time that he tried to get on a ship with other men sailing to America. They found no, who he was and they really get the fuck off you're not coming anywhere with my shit get the fuck off. May she had a thing with here My daddy is Europe's who really know you can come with us. You can sell, it gets us, you get yeah so, but then the second time he apparently was able to get away, and apparently he lived like a really great life. In America he became like prosperous here yell of the American Dream man Jani like got married and like I think he might have had kids. Why so like that's good, if he isn't a murderer, but if he did that, I hope he stubs his toe every day in the after we have that's enemy, some, I'm hoping that he was
they sent. I mean that sucks anyhow run out of his home glance. He seemed to have arrived here so if he was an assembly good for him and if not that's the worst in illegal fuck yourself yeah that sucks Magri While so I told you they were to murder and we have to move to a second one, so we're gonna move to Barbara Forest. Barber was boring to parents, Gordon and Margaret in nineteen? Seventy four. She was twenty years old and she was working as in some sources. It said that she was working as a nurse at the pipe Hayes children, home and then in other sources. It said that she was kind of like I'm, almost working like as a Dc F worker. Is what you it's just like the international worker, a social worker. Exactly so I don't know, maybe she's doing both ok working with children, prob working with children, no matter what look it's interesting, because it was so much easier to find information about the eighteen seventeen case than the nineteen. Seventy Huxley, like even unlike the newspaper archives in everything I was like, but where did all the info Billy, why do I know more about the agent under I'm confused? So
like Mary Ashford? She also had an uneasy feeling about. Excuse me. I had an uneasy feeling leading up to her murder and she told her coworker just ten days before she was killed. This is gonna, be my unlucky month. I just know it don't ask me: why is it that so strange that both happened to both of them know just wake or of the universe? The you nurses a wild, and so sadly, Barbara was right. In the early morning, hours of May twenty seventh the same day that Mary Ashford was killed and on the same holiday which, by the way falls on a different day every year, but it just so happens that it fell on this. Day this year, a figure that this happened? So in the early morning, hours on May twenty. Seventh, this time a hundred and fifty six
Ten years later, one thousand nine hundred and seventy four Barbara Forest was found, raped and strangled. Her body was left in a ditch and pipe a spark and wasn't found until a week later on June. Fourth, she was discovered, half naked and buried with brush and Braken. The site where barber's body was found was only three hundred feet away from where Marriott for its body had been discovered, was yup, barbers mother said of her. She was a wonderful girl. This is the sort of thing you hear about happening in you. Never thing can happen to you. For somebody says there you'll like it so true, because it when he got always some real, because everybody thinks that what happened to me, I'm just gonna read about it is not that sucks and so sad the last anyone knew Barbara was out with her boyfriend, Simon Belcher Barbara was described as devotedly
let s and she and her boyfriend Simon, were both members of the Saint Marks, Lutheran church and actually the night before she was killed on May twenty, sixth, Simon and Barbara, held the church services together that night Simon was actually filling in for his father, Peter Belcher, who was the churches usual minister, so they led the services together and after they finished the services, they decided to go to a couple of pubs and just kind of have like a night out together. So they went to a few pubs near the centre of town and they finished up the night dancing while they went dancing, then they decided to wrap than I know at about. One M Simon, walked Barbara to the bus, stop coal more circle, and that was the last time he would ever see her. The next day was a holiday wit Monday, so barber didn't have to go into work, but on Tuesday she didn't show up for work and her coworkers were really concerned, because she was not the kind of girl that would just not show up or yet not call so they called her family who quickly got into contact with the police and they were able to fight
missing persons report now in the week it took to find Barbara. There are tons of fires, hung up in the area of her her friends and family in the congregation that she longed to or passing out, pamphlets describing what she lay who she was but you ve been wearing like just any general information about her, but for a whole eight days there was no leads whatsoever. Nobody happened her now, if Barbara had gotten on the bus that she was supposed to, it would have been number sixty seven, but no one on that specific bus remembered her even being on board that night. So all these theories started to run wild some people, claimed that they saw Barbara after one a m this morning, but that only made the investigation more difficult because, like most people, we're like no, we didn't see her after running em, but then there was like a few people are like. I definitely did eye witnesses, man no worse now people thought it could have been possible that maybe she hitched a ride with some
and she knew after Simon dropped her off or may be that she had been on the bus and like maybe just nobody was paying attention and when she had got off, someone had gotten a hold of her car because it would taken her the bus ride and then a short ten minute walk to go home. Now she lived really close to the pay pays park where her body was found, and it was really close to her work as well and, like I said she would have had that ten minute walk home, so a witness actually came forward and told police that they saw a blue car parked near the park in the area close to where Barbara's body was discovered and close by her home in her work okra, so they have like a weird vehicle site Anglia and they assumed that whoever did this to Barbara had snuck up on her just like Mary and had caught her off guard somehow, and they said they probably use some of the low hanging tree,
to hide under Verlag jumping out and snatching. So it does make sense that maybe she was on the bus and no one saw her in the ten minute walk to get home. That's when she ok, yeah, because it like it just makes the most sincere mean like distance in area. Wiser certain the the just thinking of so many using the trees to hire, jump out and snatch. You is like really fuck and air. From now I hate the thought of somebody hiding in the trees. No oh hanging tree, I hate it very. Very much so actually had one of their female officers Linda Let us in dress in clothes similar to the ones that Barbara was wearing when she went missing and they created an entire reconstruction of the night, because they were just grasping at straws in this investigation they had. I love it. I do this. I thought those, so we haven't done this in a few different cases we covered in the galleries, like I'm like yeah extra right love, that exactly now over a hundred detectives worked on barbarous case and the investor investigation was led by detective.
Were Intendant mic lenihan. In addition to the reconstruction that they did, they were also doing door to door inquiries. They were interviewing anyone. They added that they knew took that bus. That night merges anyone that was known to be in the area. Now the boyfriend, Simon Vulture, was quick quickly ruled out, as I suspected just like. You didn't fit the bill and he had now by and it took time, but eventually by September, investigate there's no road in on a man named Michael in formed da a hundred and fifty seven years later, this girl's lake, I literally can guess Thornton and where they are not only its eye looking on like to block any wasn't aims if it's a super common last name and from what I saw people are like it's not it's like its Alec, overly
exact. Myth example agar, like are each year war, it's not an overly common last name even over there that, while inwardly enough, they were even related, like people have I'd like look into the genealogy of it and are not related while crazy, so much call and Barbara actually work together at the same children's home and he lived on Chester Road, which was not far from where her body was found and actually Mary had been spotted on Chester Road, earlier, the night that she went missing while so they were literally walking like the same roads now Michael had been found with bloodstained pants and his alibi was not exactly airtight. I couldn't find out actually what his alibi was, but later on in the investigation they learned that he actually didn't have an alibi and that his mother lied for him. Oh,
like I said that she was like oh yeah, like she corroborated his ally, has used this line, Eliachim saying Ally about his ally, about it, his alibi, but she was totally lying. Why so? He was charged with barbarous murder and he was set to stand trial. Now the trial lasted a week and justice crude Johnson, just like the original judge and Mary for its murder case reminded the jury that the evidence in the case was purely circumstantial, now they are money. We suggest a trial by combat near didn't member, tuna, hello friends. You know I'm really hoping that this summer is gonna, show signs of a more normal life ahead. I want to get back to enjoying life's little pleasures like waving at my neighbour out a closer distance. You know I would love to go to the movie theater again, I think
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stamps dot com, promo code, Morbid stamped outcome, never go to the post office. Again, they came back with a not guilty verdict which is crazy, but they didn't have any legal aid or anything like that. Back then, so it was devastating for barbarous family and Michael Thorntons. Out of the hole debacle quote, it's been very hard going on for the past seven months. I knew I was innocent, all along, which is like, of course you do. If you, if you didn't, kill someone, you would know that all. Of course but I know he's like. I never doubted myself for a moment. Like that's good. Now it's interesting than in Mary Ashford case. Her brother was the one that was so outraged because it's just another way that these two cases mirror each other, because barbarous sister Erika is not so convinced that everyone did their job properly.
Or is giving her sisters case the attention it deserves. Now in twenty twelve, she requested that the case be reopened and that dna evidence be brought into like interview yeah, I'm sure they took some kind evidence. They just couldn't do anything with it. Then. So the police came out with a statement saying that there was quote no further forensic opportunities to explore, What's an Erika was like that's bullshit like I know that you took samples around on us, Carling third blood on his clothes, and she said she remembered them taking samples your members dna samples like being a thing of course, and then she was like so did they got lost and like no one will comment on whether or not they ve been law that bullshit story of it we lost evidence, is so fuckin old. It's also like how the fuck do you live and losing fucking evidence. It's the one thing in the world. You should lose like dad near children. Don't lose any of that that, like what
very long missing ever there's a whole place for dizzy literal chain of custody for evidence you go, you have to know where it is that every step of the way yeah letters and where the fuck are we breaking all this chain of custody. Like I don't understand it's one of those things and I feel like whenever evidence has lost. It always makes you look like into that department cause you're like why'd. You lose that yet never makes them look at and always makes you a shady, never advert Org ample. The West Memphis Police Department losing the evidence scupper can a fire yelled the evidence that could potentially like finally equip them completely lost in a fire. No, meanwhile eyes. No fire me mother, fire Department is like there was no fire. Imagine you say that none the fire department, like your eyes, are part of our words. Like we're not help. Do you know the idea that shit Pissing me off will definitely doing episode about that. I am actually really. If I may, I agree about it, I don't blame you. We should do thou be great, like infuriated by the West Memphis three case. It's really in ferry and issued a varied everybody. It showed ok, so she was like know where the fuck
the Vienna like, where did it yeah now? In addition to the possibility of loss dna samples, it took them- this just happens but like that, I just feel bad for how this families treated took them four weeks to get her body back. Why so? It's like it took four weeks ago, back and now you're saying you don't have any dna. So what the what the fuck really waiting for that? What was for weeks and then they also. The family thought that it was possible that barbarous personal belongings that were either found on her body or like near her have also been misplaced. Because when they were told that there were no other forensic opportunities to explore, they were like okay, so they kind of just accepted that this wasn't gonna get solved. Horace Greeley, don't think you can fight the right, so they said. Can we have the jewellery like back because the jewellery was really special for their family,
had been gifted term barber by her godparents. It s, really nothing elvers and it's something to remember her by Anna. They also asked if they could offer handbag, so they were constantly ignored when they ask those questions, or they were just given a go round to the point that they actually had a newspaper the Sunday Mercury try to reach out as well as the Sunday. Mercury was told that the police could neither confirm nor deny that proper, Barbara, personal belongings had been misplaced in that's shameful. So your literally tell aim for his family may be Maggie. Have them literally shame, maybe not gross, you're saying I can neither can for confirm or deny your saying that it's off you're saying you don't like Julie, Jonesy may be come on in fuckin, say: okay, coward, so you don't say it and at that point Lincoln, twenty twelve, her father, I think, was like ninety and her mother were like long legs are telling this like elderly couple who lost their daughter in the most
some men and all they want is already. We lost her shit and her purse. That's all they're asking for Endlich DNA samples and you couldn't even well surely city itself. Out now, still to this day, no one has been charged for bar murder other than Michael Thornton, who was acquitted. Why even the process you're on. The case later stated that there wasn't much evidence and admitted that what they did have was all circumstantial. It's not gonna games like like it shouldn't, have even gone to trial while and it sucks that, like an eighteen, whatever eighteen seventeen or whenever was they did our job back, lonely. The brother was able to just like no no no delay. Gettin ready. Then one more time fellows everybody back to their places and everybody did it again. What is it one more time with feelings, yet one more time with feeling everyone right, but then bring it up to like to think since here and the sisters like no, you didn't do your job and there, like all we lost a reach. We got our lovely and do you know what you could have
the fucking DNA we have absolutely I mean you could have either proven that he is guilty or you could have proven that he's not unlike may be put like I mean she was raped. They may have had something put it through a system and found some some other case it's connected, torment and put the person away. That's in fury, anxious, legates! I do your fucking job here now later son of her sister quote barber had more about her than I did. She was more energy and drive. She should have been working, not weakened, but for some reason she didn't. I think she enjoyed doing the work she believed in helping the children on the Sunday the day before she disappeared. She went for a walk with Simon and talked about what she wanted at her funeral. We always felt that it was a strange remark for some one of her age is an that's like they both hide
late, weird feelings like premonition, something was gonna, go wrong, and not only did Barbara say to someone like this is gonna be a bad month. She also is telling her boyfriend what she wanted at her funeral yeah fascist like the day before anything happened, that's weird! So those are both. The cases but just to review all the similarities. It's like the the key to the spot, the dim Ria, both murders happened. either during or right, after wit, Monday, in earning ten the same place in the same park. Both Marian barber would twenty years old of some. Actually If they had the same birthday, I was trying to find an obituary for barber, and I couldn't find one and none of us like sources that I read said her birthday and same thing with Mary, but some people say they have the same birthday that be crazy. Their bodies we're only found three hundred feet apart. They both spent there last night dancing and both suspects in this in each case had the last named Thornton and both were acquitted. That's so, while a hundred and fifty seven years apart
that's so why I was reading this one thing linked very crazy and out there, but it was like if people believe in wreak reincarnation. It's like what, if Mary Ashford Like passed away and then came back as Barbara an impasse so in the same way right, there's nothing you around in, but it's like, I had so funny cause it's not funny I was just watching on fear street. The first one in its like the whole thing about, like the witch in Chile, takes people here and it's like a curse town. I feel like there's some kind of curse that park it cut. It feels that way and one I want to go into it because, along the way, I was finding out that it's actually like associated with a couple of hauntings whoop ass, I think maybe like we might do like in addition to this episode and how to be all the spooky things associated with this park. Oh all, right, that's crazy! I love that, but I hate that bananas, that is bonkers, a hundred and fifty seven years apart, yeah, that's really wild like what what what I'm sorry that Serbia with that's crazy and I love that included
by combat, yet that live in that really sold it really crazy bars. Unconcern actually found this. When I was doing the Melanie at tea case, remember not case how there was like another girl named Millennia tee, I add our strain. I was again the on line form and it was like, if you think, that's crazy, Olga this case, and I start doing, and I was like what you like shit. We got a guy louder word as this one on river absurdum orbs, the morbid, but more so I hope because, like loud- and that was not thank you thank you for that, and you know it. No. I I love that I did not know life. It's very rare that I can add a case, my nerves. She is not worried and no, though, and for big superbly into my life here, well, this podcast sponsored by better hope, there's something interfering with happiness.
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Abbott De Jure? Does that's exactly what it feels like. I would then like to think Flex G for being what should g in flux and on Us Flex De Luxe Jean thing to you. Yes, I'm obsessed, then we ve got Stephanie be Stephanie B. I bet you get ACE I bet litter in all star in friendship and empathy, my friendship, then we ve got Terry Joe Baker. Tell your baker idyllic, you just like the sweetest and you may really good cookies and is not just cause her last minute. Baker, not that choose field you as a film So what I feel like any like Joe Baker will again thing. Joe Baker always feels like oh yeah. On I love I love Joe for like a middle Riyadh and secondly, I love that links. Thank you and then we SAM Alastor SAM last Where you been last in for or it all my laugh, all my laugh. We then had the Lisbon Corrigan Lisbon.
Corrigan, do you know that you have the same name as Lizzie Board in was EF? I think the nameless bath is like really it's cool like it's different in Corrigan like Billy, Gorgon, yeah, that's cool. I love it. You're cool your! Thank you. Next up isn't Natalie either Cooler color Polly Color, How do you spoke K? You, L, L, e r, color color, color, color then we have Je Ne manifests Jamie Malthus. I'd like to thank you personally. Thank you so much Jamie Malthus. We then have Hannah Box Hannah Box. Don't ever put him on a box, don't you dare put baby in a bar what's in the bark was in the box, and I think we should use to more how about we finish this off with Robin
Robin Dick. I love you. You are to pick up, sticks and then last, but certainly not least, thank you from the bottom of our hearts to Amanda Romero Amanda Romero. Are you related to the horror director love you? I mean it you saw but Eric eyes. While we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it. Why didn't know Julian? I literally dont know those we I kept it that we're done. I didn't say. Oh my god, I don't know why. I didn't say it didn't join me. I read you, keep it but ass, a really you don't turn into your own show to save the thing that you ve said for the past three years of your entire life. While those I don't know what happened.
Transcript generated on 2021-08-11.