Let Karen and Georgia be your weekly valet to My Favorite Murder. On this episode they cover the terrible deeds of Nathaniel Bar-Jonah and Rodney Alcala.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is exactly right. Love moments of staring at each eye out we're gonna, say hi the same time I know, but I didn't know you were gonna start Rennie's aim here what what I'll come to my favorite murder to show where we talk at the same time That's your too hard start, that's caring, kill Gareth. This is my favorite murder. Welcome so glad you
make a thanks for coming, thinks you're staying for at least ten minutes. We hope it was at hand when I do this for ten minutes, just a lot of back and forth YAP you're into that hang out. If no baby I'll see you in twenty actually twenty minutes, when we start the murderers, see you at least forty five minutes. When I begin to commit to the project that is missing Marty we're being realistic. Now, you're, not gonna, manicure manicure. Today I did needed look at my now. Isn't it find your clear gazing lovingly at your nails? I've never seen you did up before here's the thing- and I just talked about this, but to you, but having I so now. I work on Guy Verhofstadt. Tv show and on the tv show I get for its sometimes eight thirty. In the morning I get through He groaned women who stand around me doing my hair, make up for hours
and it is so fun loving and like people just just- Teasing my hair for, like forty five minutes, strength of this and shaping it so really good here doing makeup: lately brushing my face for an hour amazing. I start to realize lake on the first day because this is an area, my schedule, it's been hard. We worked a lot recruiting on a Sunday. Instead of it is that's right, because this next week is going to be the same in crazy, but so the first day we went to tape. I sat down at my also it's it's called talks with game, show guys hosting guy Brantome for if the choke expert lawyer guy Brantome, it's a talk, show he's the host and I am a judge where people come out and they get they do an interview with guy, and then I judge them, and tell them how they did. It sounds like a dream job, just like
two percent yeah. You don't get judge to just action of how well I can't say Santa made on one can talk to me but going through like basically the beauty. A glamour squad every morning makes me realize how, like the first day after I left Diane whose may make a person handed a mask- and she has put this Antony. All I know is basically like thing by thing. Whereas, like oh yeah, that's right, may I go home and then just go to sleep and wildlife life's a little easier to make this so that we had to put you together like a wax dummy, and so then you know, like wonder, I realized I have to hold upside need paint my finger. Yes, now did I got out when you're like this purse. I have done the bare minimum of looking yes and now, but
Once I do it, it's like. Oh, this is fun and that girl nicer take her to pamper you're, so it really does something. Today I really like it said today. It was like. I just did my nails last week really fast and do that too, but so today one got a manicure in Silverlake and it was I said the lady rose was, it really awesomely. With that you find out in the names of your she has only my name, and then I asked her name. It was fun when I went to leave also, but my glam ended because as the weekend, so I had no make upon. In fact that looks a lot like a scumbag usanga that morning. Wait till you. If I told you in the morning you look beautiful. Will I can't have anything is a bit of. I think that you are pretty braving beautiful and then I was like a way for me in the valley area and ran away from me. I was I was working valet gender little add ons and she brought my car around. I tell it to get away from me when gotta manicure as
he's getting run up a girl who was getting her manicure looked up at me and goes Karen and I go yeah. I guess I was like. Oh dear, she worked with me as at somebody. There haven't talked you that much whatever and then she goes. I love your boat but she was like she was getting a managerial lose honourably stuck. It was like we could shake hands or say there, and I immediately got so self conscious that I had like these crazy nice nails and then other than that. I really looks like I rolled out from under bridge. I was like banks by and just ran away so quickly. So I just want to say that girl, if you're listening, which she might have quit at this point, because I was so not all that friendly, hey, hey, I'm sorry, I didn't ask you what your name was. I'm sorry I didn't say I sorry didn't have a moment with you. I was kind of embarrassed
I'm fine, I'm embarrassed in Vienna, like how are you feeling today kind of Umberto kind of generally embarrass yeah, I'm working on a year, but I say to her that the thing we see that she knows so much about you. This plant men like doesn't expect you to lake. Doesn't think you're gonna be crazy, fucking digging in undermining the ailing. We haven't fucking, positioned ourselves too, because you fuckin thing increases. It consumes like a chill check, but like I was showing some reason. I can't drop that Chrissy Tee and expectation it's my problem. Oh you know it's a kind of em like. Oh, maybe I look like I kind of get that because of my gun, knowing Maketh anymore and thou, see myself sometimes make. Oh, my god. I look like I'm on my way to rehab yes and like to people like my neighborhood cafe, or they like a shoe k have like some acne scars right now, so it looks a little like Ivan picking at my bare like yes, I b, presentable you every presentable, my some. If my mom Sammy here's a second really under the images everything should be like should be,
My mom I ever taken in my head of my mom he's always if you would like walk through the kitchen, it would just be like after school one day or like the actual time my mom. Are you gonna go, oh God put some lipstick on you. Look like a corps was like her great quote, so I have that kind of their own. Like really in the house, you need me to wear lipstick, lady, so lambs diminish. She sees me. She tells me how something I am doing that she likes it better. When I do the other way around. Like I have short hair, I can no longer not like Keeluk it's like. I like it here, shorter, like it's just like here's, what you didn't you ve done that doesn't! Please me! Yes, m am like fuck you. You voted for Trump, whether you have got lucky you, here's what you fuckin mom! That's right! You get to tell me and then in an alarms, mounds and do we have? corners.
I have a couple corners commit his memories. Dear Vincent, I have this Vienna share real intimate, not internet, but I'm an inside joke that my husband and I have that were the only people who know what it is and we kind of love in a chair it together in a manager, sovereignty, people and every time we say any kind of coroner thing. I think of this. Admins are so whenever Lord Corner comes out bent, and I say to each other corner corner corner, and the reason is because we would go to this link late night. Diner, endless veal is called how supplies that's like the fucking passed like multiple diner, and there was this chick. Who is a waitress there who was like
Late night waitress Yucatan chosen like our own fucking, like buzzing, our coffee and shit, gems, really cool bishops, clearly buzzing and every time she'd have hot plates on her. You know you're a waitress in you have to say behind you behind you. When you're like behind some conflates, they don't walk India. She would come around the corner with these half hides a corner corner, so you think even you're talking about the higher and ever you just fucking crack someone area someone's corner, and this is like three years ago and resell. It kind of turnover and are now now he's told everyone. So let's do court
our corner is a cornerstone of corn. Untie is well. We were at that live show. We got to me some people afterwards, and there were two different girls who took the time to tell us that we, this podcast mental, locked them because they were going through a really hard time and that they were like one though one girl said, I M sorry to rename the way you phrased. It was your these great voices in my head when I only had boy bad voices in my head, and it was so touching to me, but it also was the same exact thing that a day girl said- and I was like I said to her- just see: no, that's just what someone else, but I remember this yeah, that's the first girl said, and I was like someone else just said that and then she was like a whole whereas, like I wanted to go like go over there, but that entered, but it was just very eight, was very touching that we could help somebody that would
in that position, but be if you are in that position and you have those feelings, get help figure out a way to find a therapist go online. Look it up into there's. You know like it's good, to get help for yourself and it's good to solve those problems. There solvable problems, we ve both them and it's going to have friends here and I have to say the Facebook group is they. Those people are where everyone's coming to friends, and everyone will talk to you in a room with healthy with something it's really good resource for people who who listen to this because they need help. Yet I think I'm gonna go completely also get help from recompression on, but it is a really cool, like I think, a lot of making friends off of it. And yet songs like yeah yeah, and we were late because when we talked about this all the time like there lots of podcasts, I listen to you that when I listen to them at like eight,
friends who have their own upon cast or somebody else, you know whatever thy love but like I start listening to it and I feel better, I feel like I'm with people. I, like I feel, like I'm hanging out like my loneliness, goes away. My anxiety goes away, and so we get a lamb, not laughing at you laughing at this me my saw that says on the top when, when I'm like, when I listen about costs and its billboard of these three, which you girls like eating ice cream, there's this do sitting next to the real world like laughing along with them. They are eating. I apologize critically and it's like me to its like how you listen about cars, which I plucking the same way completely up yeah yeah. She threw me nice. So I think we have to. We have a couple live just coming up that aren't sought out, so we have to show them out to people to together tickets rate on Stephen Kenya.
That's! Ok, so here's some new information on our lives shows so unfair. We worry! Third, that's afraid aid these tickets will go on sale, so ok, we're doing it your Portland show, because you guys they got sold out so quickly and people out his offsets Sunday. The twenty sixth March revolution ha, there's gonna, be an added show. So- so that is gonna be on sale? On the? What did I say to my third February? That's afraid. I think that should be tomorrow. So that's Portland! No that's next Friday ok we s tomorrow, is today the TWAIN this reserve. So, yes, the depressing
today is the twenty nine, so this coming Friday, so YO in this episode drops of after. Thank you Stephen. So it's tomorrow, yes, ok and then Boston is adding a late show at the Wilbur on March. Third, the same to show same day is a regular shut, but we're having a later NATO and as well and then Milwaukee is moving to a larger venue, so it was in the past, so tree sold out. I guess it's now moving to the riverside, but all that all the tickets that you bought from the pact's will be you yet the same or better, see India at the new plays, there's going to be more tickets on sale, written that will be on February at noon noon local time, so it was going to do is show current life chauffeur, navona corner. Now we have lower kilgour of corner
that's your sister scissor corner, so my sister goes on Facebook page and tells me stories that she loves and she has great taste. So this one is especially awesome in its Christian Michel Mcclure story that she paused on Facebook and it's fucking crazy. So she says her
from a sick, so she drove up to Macao, Asters and Allison taxes to pick up some food and ice tee for dinner, and the parking lot was pretty dark and the only people there that late, where the staff and one woman who left shortly after she got there and when she got her order. She walked outside to see the woman from before smoking a cigarette and suddenly she comes over to me. I switched it now, its first person. Suddenly she comes odor man's has high, oh my god. It's so good to see you. How have you been, and I'm sure I looked very confused as I responded? I'm sorry, I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't think I know you and her voice got quiet and she said pretend, like you: do, there's a man hiding behind your car fucking chills. You guys, I'm a very observant and spatially aware person, but I never would have known he was there if it wasn't for this amazing lady. So I let her walk me to my car as I do. She explains that she saw him lurking ass. She was leaving and got a bad feeling, so she decided to wait for me what an angel base that is so incredibly nice and we really need to be doing that for each other s. Sure enough. We get to my car and a man in a hoodie stands up from behind my passenger rear side and nonchalantly walks into the dumpster early dumpster alleys were forgotten. Lurkers lurk
as we're saying goodbye, she smiled and said stay sex. Do don't get my thoughts. Are the chances aim,
a fellow murder. Reno, probably saved me from being robbed, assaulted, kidnapped, murdered. God does what and I'm so thankful for her. I didn't catch her name, but if you're listening, but if you're reading this thank you, let's listened to Emma them, drink wine and catch on March Martyr document or some time. So then, there's an update from Cheney coals with this girl, Polish, its Cheney, calls Kristen, show Mc Clure and Emily Burke and channels are saying so a lot of you probably saw Christians Post yesterday about how a fellow murdering or saved her when a hooded man was hiding behind our car at Macalister. As if you didn't scroll down it's crazy story, I live in Dallas, so I commented that I wanted to be her friend since were practically neighbours, a few chats, the messenger and Facebook friendship later she- and I and my murder, you know best friend, Emily met for drinks last night and discussed all kinds of murders, the tables around us that we were weird, but we had a great time this podcast and this group makes me so happy. Murders met for drinks, less nay, oh there's an overlap. Sorry
murdering as Unite, is low lying sweet. When my sister sent me that I started crying- and I was like that's the cool that idea rate area of somebody noticing something that might be bad and taking the time to look out for another person and the idea that the reason they might do as they were emboldened by the shit that you- and I say, my services dynamic- require more and more uncharted there, because I really want it. But there are some environment are limited, but stop it. Keep going so proud of us voted Araby the other day in this text to do really proud of us ten years ago. When I'm proud of a seal, I want to cry and or something, and he would now do it. I mean Jesus Christ dead near like sitting there like I've got a cry on this body today. So that's I gotta know who did it at lunch? It! the cool thing. It's like you now
it's a view. That is the point of wonderful in that way, is proud of and proud of, ass. The job everybody good job, you guys reflect ended, resides anxiety, we're not getting murdered or making friends extending yourself the people who might be in a been a bad place, that's kind of like that's the that's. What we're looking for these down and we're fuckin like or putting those fucking dumps an alley lurkers in their place, like no. You can't lacking, you can't do this in no. Or you know, maybe that guy was paying either way that girl got in her car and got home. Saying I land tears. Contact people too, maybe using both may have a p and it could have been a pay attack, a theatre. It has been. My favorite murder by that was done, is gorgeous oh I'm just tell me rubber Durst hearings or is it tomorrow? It's fits Oh, the September fifteenth sorry, it came up as an alert just now. That's really weird
real quick March for Nagorno Corner, my favorite murder shortstop come and we have new hat sweep hats now, tabs and beans- and I guess Parabolic- has that unlike Mariposa anything, but I wouldn't where she suddenly. I like baseball Hants there like ski hands or whatever their actually really cool. The same ordinary. Now on them and stuff. I write a job he showed, talk about what how how many minutes was that we talk people ten minutes, what the fuck, History, how many minutes I'm sorry just started talking to me without me, pressing anything. You think my places Many places hunter. Yes monsieur. I think your first this week, so let Let's start most, that show called that. You recently told me the new detectives. I'm not telling you anymore shows because it guarantees is correct.
No because you're like a fucking hate that show no it. I know it. Do not about a lot of things. Are it so? This is a story from that show, but is now Oh you watched it and got the story from it. I had a story and then realised when looking and after that they had covered the story on that show got it need not needed Real real that real detectives and so there's if there was so much more the story so like Mohammed Southern into this, but Emily shot out to the show Karen likes the same time time some nobbing negative. Ok, you mean making them So in work. Gesture Massachusetts in nineteen sixty four, a kid name: Nathaniel BAR Jonah is seven years old. He too the five year old neighbour that he had just got no e g board and she followed him into his basement to play with it,
It tends to strangle the five year old girl, the seven year old attempts to strangle the five year old girl. She screamed his own mother comes down or rescues her so, like his mom, knows sums up already and remain so this fucking seven year old catches, six years later, nineteen, seventy he's thirteen years old, he lures another neighbour, a six year old boy to a nearby hill, saying that he wants to go sliding with him and, of course, the delay and Gus letting he ends up sexually assaulting the kid and then
In March nineteen, seventy five, seventeen year old, Nathaniel bar Jonah, he's doing the sudden classic impersonation officer a police officer of ducks an eight year old kid name. Richard O Connor was on his way to school or sexually assaulted, strangled him. A neighbor saw this happening and notifies the police. They find a car matching. The description in a parking lot link get him out of the car and the kid is found in the car near death but alive. Nathaniel, is arrested, charged and convicted. But he receives river this a year. Probation for this crime. I do how because it's nine, seventy but
probation, because not tat. Many of us have had some insane lawyer or some kind of yeah. That's crazy! No, I think that happen all low. It gets worse. Ok that always gets worse, so it is before he graduated from high school he's again in pursuing a police officer of ducks and nine year old girl who he assaults savagely in his car and then later throws her from the Cotonou, a sidewalk she's still alive and witness gets his license plate which leads to his arrest and this assault never gets back to his probation officer and so he's released from parole from the earlier assaults in nineteen. Seventy six so what? is probationary period is over. He received a letter thanking him for his cooperation. So he never gets now
sorry what his parole ends in seventy six. They catch him and I dont know if he ever got charged with anything went after they found the kid after he threw her on her car, but but the poor offs are never finds or probation officer. Never that out about it. So nothing is additives in September nineteen seventy seven claiming to be an undercover FBI agent, and he has his two boys to get into his car. He goes to a secluded area with them and handcuffs them and assaults them, and he thought he had killed one of the boys, so he took the other one still alive in his trunk and drove off, but the kitty thought was dead with a not dead. He regains consciousness and fucking finds help
the boy who was kidnapped is found still alive and Nathaniel's trunk, so he's caught convicted of attempted murder and gets the maximum sentence of eighteen to twenty years in prison, so fuckin finally he's being incarcerated, so well he's incarcerated. He tells A psychologist there about his fantasies of murder, dissection and cannibalism like our interest and she that's ok. Just decides to commit him to the Bridgewater State Hospital for the sexual predators, which I think means that you don't have a really state. I think they can keep you indefinitely. I could be wrong. Burnham, please let me know He sees in the hospital from seventy nine to ninety one. When there's a hearing before superior court judge watch your ear steel who needs three fucking named to psych. Psychiatrists, say that
Nathaniel, a bar Jonah is a danger to society and he should not feel about two of them said he isn't so I turn to the judge sides with if I said, the judge sided with the stupid ones and said that he thought that Barcelona would not commit the crime again and decided that heat the state had failed to prove he was dangerous. So this second superior court Judge Walter Steel, let's bar Jonah out does His family have money. He must have amazing lawyers. I dont think it was that difficult there now in any way in there's no maidens there's! None of this shit worry leg where they think, predators and users are even important enough to let their next door neighbor, who has children, know that their there, like it's not priority. We abbot its
I mean these are attacks their physical attacks. It doesn't make sense it doesnt matter and it is just being life I detect a little girl throws out of a car, and thanks for thanks for doing such a great job in your parole doesn't even track. No, it doesn't necessarily turning the guy Brennan words like all his intent was to kill these people wise and he kept in prison and the same time that someone who will actually killed them aren't it's just as he got lucky foreseen. I just kept getting lucky. I mean that's a yawned lucky where he's not getting arrested for like he's. Not even I think it's a fucked up justice, system at the time I think, that's all. It is So he leaves petition and he promises to not go back to Massachusetts than instead he'll go to New Montana But maidens last still being debated, and it's not
It's not enacted yet, which you know, as everyone knows maidens law, is that you, if you're sexual, offend our? U have to notify everyone in the community and there are led to know where you live, and all this so So here weekly garage sales selling, star wars, mount memorabilia and stuffed animals that attracts many local children. And. Let's see within a week, he commits another attack on the child and then no one in Montana notified of his past crimes at all. So in February six. Ninety ninety six ten year olds, Zachary Ramsay, is on his way to school. At about seven thirty, I am, he takes his usual school out through the alleyway and rubber. This fucking short cuts is take the school like the short cuts. I used to take as a kid we
places I could have been murdered in is just more than I couldn't have been murdered in uniting makes fucking, alleyways and then looking back alleys and second, what others called like that river dry river beds and just this horrible places. And a family who lives in along the alleyway report, seeing him but also sees an off White Ford or car that nearly runs him over another witness who lived in the area have seize him distressed with an obese adult male following him, a few feet behind at about seven forty five Zack then disappears, which is another thing. Second, as you see something, fucking say something if you see a little kid upset with it with an adult and TAT something doesn't look right. Do you can be rude and be legs everything? Ok here you know, I mean you're, not gonna get in trouble for it.
Let's see, ok, so the police investigate Zack Ramses kidnapping and it turns out that Nathaniel bar Jonah, who is it known, sex offender in the area of that there were a lot of them- has access to his mom's off white four door. Toyota Corolla the day that that goes missing and his mother was out of town for a funeral, and so he had the house to himself. Else it didn't work that day. So he says away from the place and tell ninety nine. When he's arrested near an elementary school in great Falls, Montana he's dresses of policemen he's carrying a stun gun and pepper spraying is like fucking targeting one of the kids there and they searches apartment and they find a list of boys names, including previous victims that he had actually had and the name Zachary Ramsay, the last word of which was died because he had done these crazy.
Christians, and so when the F B, I finally took a partner with whom they found all of these names. There is dozens of newspaper clippings down in his apartment, following this act Ramsay case and a former roommate said that he found clothes in his apartment, which matched Zachary Ramses close. It is during the day, disappear and am bloody gloves, so They also found encrypted menus, referring two cannibalism, children and there were actual. I know enough. I am here to hear them, but like names of meals that we're like puns on children. Being the fucking on the menu. It's pretty fuck it it's almost too late, like
takes to light, I don't like it, but it's gross is he thinks he's being like funny adds? Lay disgusting says: yeah, it's not it's not amusing and anyway, it's fucked up in its also said that he possibly cut up. And serves when meets of his victims to his neighbours at barbecues and cookouts in size and hammer, and there was one woman, his neighbor who said this taste really weird. What is this, and he said it's a dear, I found my cut it out myself and she remembers it tasting. Where I mean, can you Eddie, I'm barbecues sucking imaginary eating disorder? You would have you are that neighbour? Can you imagine ever trade we ve and for the rest of your life is never you meet in. It is really the horrible. I now
ok and also find a list of twenty two names, many which were passed victims, known victims, but several have never been accounted for and they all Dug up the yard and found twenty one bone fragments of a yet to be identified boy estimated between eight thirteen and it's not Ramses, bonds, so in July, two thousand he's charged with his act, Ramses Manner and for kidnapping and sexually salting three other boys who lived above him in an apartment complex whom he would babysit. Who is the moment just leave him leave the kids with him, even though she was, I get one of them sorted, acting real weird after I let him babies, and it's like I'm in here But the charges involving Zack, Ramses murder are dropped because the Xerox mom refused to believe tat. He was dead and so would testify that bar Jonah and guaranteeing a margin and never killed her son she's gonna testify to that
but he sentence for the other charges to a hundred thirty years in prison. It's for sexually assaulted, one kid and torturing another and an April thirteenth, two thousand eaten nothing Albert Jan astound dead in his presence is his death is either the heart attack our brain clodagh, carefully monitoring in article, and then eventually a judge declares Zack Ramsay legally done two thousand and eleven, despite his mom, still objecting to that effect of his
Superfund tat thing one of those murder. It's like one of those articles. That's like ten serial killers. You ve never fucking our ten monsters. You ve never heard of. Unlike why're. You know. Why are these other people heard of and he's not he's, just as huge of a fucking monster? Will that's the real detect is that I saw that was the first one I saw with the end of his eye crying. It was crazy and he chase sack I forever and he literally cheese. He p tracked him down and will end by the time at somebody said a wall that, like he kept peering. Oh, they went on the short cut, so he walked the short cut himself. Finally, like it was like beak ups were telling him the information, so he finally himself walked too short, and when he came up the Alley bar Jonas was standing at the top of the alley, dressed like a security guard across the street from the grammar school and the good, the guy in the show. It is like you know like
and that's when I knew I had my dying and end the most horrible part, the lake. I looked into that two of like a. Would this be a good one to do there? the details are so fucking disturbing, though there were no parallel without our be awful. It's just like yeah. It's that kind of thing words like. Oh that's interesting. I feel it maybe that's a reason why it's a he's, one that you don't hear that much about its cause. It's like insanely disgusting, an awful and he did it to a bunch of kids. Was it so surprising to me about this story, and one of the reasons I think is important talk. That is because Zack Ramsay was taking a short cuts and ninety ninety six, like it wasn't the eighties or even the early ninetys, which is when I was doing those things it's. It seems like more recent and I feel like he was alone early in the morning, and I know it seems like a well travel place in ruins going to school, but you can't
you can't do those things. I don't think anyone doesn't unemployment, especially because people saw that happening or like this is weird and like went on with their day traveling alone, also that guy dressed he did, I mean he was like a real. He knew I like dressing like a security guard that sing that people fall for all the time. Words like it was a cop. It's a security guard at the person standing outside the school that dressed like an official, must be a good person and to see like yeah. It's it's crazy and also that he did it. I mean the idea. Like his first thing was when he was so and couldn't find any information about his childhood and how you know, could have not been fucked up at all. I could just be second crazy right. There
Did he something going on that? He would try to strangle a five year old and you a seven year, makes you think, a merry bell, yeah totally just any outright evil kid, but also what's happened. Amy I marry Bell was a total. Victim area very young child, and that affects- and I wonder what could happen like his mom found him Strangling a little girl, you know could have been done to help him at that age, yeah clearly, nothing on yeah, so intense here, but also the the really creepy things like seven. It's like the movie seven, where he had all these notebooks just tons and tons and tons of no books that they recovered yeah. That was he obsessive Lee wrote about me. He was Sadly crazy, like he knew that if he did get caught he wanted there to be as much information as possible. So he'd be talked about here and then I did it. And if you watch, that episode of real detectives, the real detective that
solves that case, who talks about it like at one point is crying on camera like he is so clearly it's it's one of those things where that's the case. A lifetime and a whore so horrible horrifying want to go, you mean leave right now. Mine is. Very well known this week, its road me I'll call? That is why we in like I've, seen the forensic files of this guy I've seen like a twenty twenty, like almost everything on discovery idea, there's been every version of one of their shows that they have featured this guy cassettes. The danish game thing is such a fuckin that that's what
for his fame yeah, it's so insane, but there was one of those shows that kind of reverse engineer to where they followed the victim, and now I don't remember the show I dont remember which victim it is because he has so very many, but it's that thing were basically. This girl goes missing and her family trying to find her family trying to find her and then Actually, this cache of photographs because of Rodney Alcala is Stog Refer and when he's finally arrested and they start going through thousands and thousands of photographs, they find a picture of her and they finally realize I think it was the hiker. She was a hiker and she was like a real outdoors woman and then they
the picture among all these really disturbing picture than they can identify all like, there's somebody those photos like times. You know what I said earlier missing or withhold cases. They say there still online okay. So here's the here's, the basic story and we started here. Nineteen. Seventy eight on the popular tv show, the Dating Game host Jim Lang, introduce gerardi I'll call as bachelor number one is. It is a success photographer, who got his start when his father found him in the dark room at age, thirteen fully developed little white select, the show have you ever seen, but what it so it's like. Sexual innuendo, which, when you're not here, dad left to do in the second darkroom, knowing they now hopes, but basically that it's basically like the fund sexual innuendo, when you're, not a serial rapists and killer, is fine, but when you are so horrifying,
and the rest of that is between takes. You might find him skydiving or motorcyclists murmuring actor. Jed mills who was bachelor number two on the show and competed against AL collar describe them as a very strange guy with a very bizarre opinions, and the funny thing is the bachelor at Cheryl Bradshaw chose Alcoholic, he won the dating game, but when she met him she refused to go out with him because she found him so creepy am. I got I want to talk to her. She was right to find him creepy, because he'd already raped and eight year old girl murdered for women when he was on that show or women already or women, then, is that coming on tv and hockey, so he was basically mid. Killing spree that had
started they believe in well. He rape, the eight euro girl and I d sixty eight and then the killing began soon after any is in the middle of all. That goes on a game show so yeah he's completely out of his goddamn mind and kind of like a look. Look a magnetic like it's that thing of lake I wanna be famous. I want everyone to see. I know you can't catch me yeah, I'm I'm smart! I'm smart and everybody he did have a hundred and sixty. I q, so he's kind of west smarter than everybody in a way that so He committed is first known crime in nineteen. Sixty eight motorists, in LOS Angeles, called the police. After watching him lure an eight year old girl named Tally Shapiro into his Hollywood apartment. The girl was found alive, raped and beaten with steel bar, but I'll collar had already fled. So
evade the resulting arrest warrant, he left the state any enrolled. In N Y you film school under the name, John Birder, where he studied under Roman Polanski. That's can we then obtained in this is only one. He got a counselling job at a New Hampshire arts cap for children using a different, Alias John Burger, but June of nineteen. Seventy one corneal Clearly, a twenty three year old Trans Tita view a flight attendant, was found, raped and strangled in her Manhattan apartment. That Cornelius murder would remain unsolved. For forty year foolish, so she was one of the ones that when they found the picture is re started putting it up altogether, like this person was missing, murdered yeah. So so
our colours on the initiatives only when he goes on the ten most wanted fugitives list and a few months later to children who are at this arts camp that he got the job that they notices photo on an FBI poster at the Post office, and they finger him by gathered some kid. So he's extradited to California, but by then that eight year old girl that he had attacked her parents had relocated the entire family to Mexico and they weren't coming back. So they were on a unable to can victims of rape and attempted murder. So the prosecutors were forced to permit him to plead. To a lesser charge of assault. So he's paroled after thirty four months and salt he basically
it's the same thing. If he'd demonstrated evidence of rehabilitation, he got out early so for thirty four months and you can get out whenever the fuck you write so two months after his release, he's rearrested after assaulting a thirteen year old girl who he is for the right to school and when she thought she was just getting a ride to school and again he's purled after serving to years of indeterminate sentence. So after that release from prison a Ellie parole officer takes the unusual step of permitting this report. Offender and known flight risk to travel to New York City now,
irritating. But if he has a hundred and sixty I q and he's this level psychopath he's probably incredibly charming and welcome the appeal of the outer way. So he's he's, you know he s just sucks. He makes it work, yet it's crazy or people or to start aren't capable of handling. This level is like it supervillain keys at savvy as fuck and even a person whose of normal intelligence dont. Our stand. The leg the nuances of manipulation. Probably right have you seen the show good behaviour with the girl who's the his merry from downtown Abbe? Now it's really good as well that when we do tv
the recommendation its will and also social in it she's like a con woman, and she does these things like she started off by a common cause. She was directed drugs, but now she's doing it just to get money. Unlike you watch, it is really getting she does these things. It's the you see how easy it would be to fall for it because, like shall go and ensure she has a really nice outfit on and she looks like she has a lot of money and she's like a high and resort and then she's like shopping for jewelry Social, be like oh. Can I see that their my husband what's hasn't said I could get one thing and blunt picket, and so the wall, the guy shopping and chatting and legally and their drinking champagne and then she's, making the guy go, get her things away from the counter and while he's gone, she's loading her manners than the jury she's trying on but she's doing they switch around so she's like never You know me is very believable and then she walks out he's not gonna know anything has gone and tall way later and its that's. What makes me think of when you see the river paper
it's my favorite movies in the world with E M, O Neill Amyloid Armani Online Audio and they do that emits their third stars, and it's just one of my absolute favorite movies, and you never fucking. Now, there's really it's so grand will that's cause. You have to be good to get away with it and that's how you're good casualties of casual about it and you have to be like friendly and kind of harming in a warning. So people are like of no never be her. The pretty clear, probably good. Looking like I get nervous that people think I'm shoplifting. Even when I have no intention of never in a shop lived Eddie, I'm still not. Tab is now to be pretty fuckin.
She really, but also like Super Germania, so clearly that this guy, so he convinces his parole officer to let him go to New York and while he's there, a week after it gets to Manhattan, he kills Ellen Jane over. Who is twenty three and the daughter of the owner of cereals, which is a Hollywood nightclub. She was a God daughter of Dean, Martin and Sammy Davis, Joy ere. She was like an heiress, a lot of money and her remains were found buried on the grounds of the rock is still the Rockefeller estate in what Chestertown how did even get in there? Well, I
Entirely at our he probably went to like a club basin. Is there and he's you see, pictures of him he's super creepy now see pictures of him in Germany as a really long, like salt and pepper creepy, curly, hair roman driver on here, but you know back, then it was like the late seventy eyes, and it was that kind of looking for Mr Goodbye area of like pick up clubs and everyone else like post hippy, you know feel in a new era. I don't know, but he so did the thing where he was a photographer right. He is playing like the artist side for a little while he worked the Ella Times as a type centre, and he was at one point interviewed:
by the members of the hillside, strangler tassel moors as part of their investigation when they were interviewing known sex offenders, who is ruled out as the hillside strangler, but get arrested and served a brief sentence from marijuana possession. So they got him for that. Thank God, but he also during time. He convinced, a bunch of me young, men and women that he was a professional fashion photographer and photographed them for his portfolio, and he showed that portfolio to his co workers a daily times, and there are people who are quoted as saying they should. I thought it was
here, but I didn't know I didn't know because he said he was like a fashion for town there, and so I just remember, there's a bunch of naked girls and he would show it to people like this is my. This is my portfolio leafy it's so fuckin creepy, so he's totally flaunting it and, of course everyone's just like. Oh, I guess that's high fashion argovie, so in eighteen, seventy nine. He Knox he knocked unconscious and rapes. Fifteen year old, Monet Coit as she's posing. For him. For one of those shoots, and then he goes on the dating game, which wasn't also- and I believe, one thousand nine hundred and seventy nine around that same time, and they think that, because our he was on the dating game in nineteen, seventy eight. So they think because of that
Jackson of the girl now on on the dating game being like there's no fucking way, I'm going out with that guy because right after that, a twelve year old girl from Huntington Beach Name Robin SAM. So disappeared on her way between them. Each and ballet class, it was June twentieth, nineteen, seventy nine, when this happened twelve days later, her deep composing body was found in the found in Foothills, LOS Angeles Foothills. I did something like the guy say I was attired when I like seventy and not like eighteen would end. You did what I went and took the photos with him in the fucking Santa Monica mountains holy shit. I've never told anyone. This version, this guy's, should have killed me. He just took pictures of EU and drove you home yeah. He was a regular at this restaurant. I was working and was like he came in all the time is a charge of her.
That is a real and unlike ok and we ll have to Santa Monica Hills. Now, isn't like oh shit, I'm alone what this guy in the fucking, for us in the fucking Hell's overlooking the ocean and like there was, he was so nice at the restaurant and the minute his I went the camera lens! She looked. Fucking eel. I remember thinking you need to fucking It's not ok, and so I kept asking about his mom and he got telling those mother and was almost goes. I'm kind of knew something was not right and I needed a talked him alive and then we just went home, but my heart was racing. The whole time she's an eye, and I know what happened to him and I can't I've just quit. After that. It is just that should have been dead. That's
in saying I now I'm so embarrassed about that fuckin topping up it reminds me so much of a story right will also is theirs and there's another guy. That's on like that I've seen like three different. You know. I d discovery things about the guy that he would approach women in malls seas of tug refer that he was casting director re. He wants to take their picture because he was casting for the latest. Was it Batman or some like the latest big movie, and they would go meet him and then they would disappear and he'd they were meeting him at houses that were for sale at another yeah, so he was going in and basically meaning them an empty like
does that he knew that the real estate agent, like we haven't, shown to have had the meet them there and then attack them there and he kills a couple girls and then one girl got away and that's how he got caught. Since this exact same zeal create- and I mean I just as I don't wanna take some such ill, so stupid, Resnick, eighteen and I got was new to allay himself flattered. So long take my photo and it was the nineties. I didn't understand- and I thought I knew this person I would east- was so nice all the time and more so when I say fuck politeness, it's because I've done shut, that probably really like unsafe, and I just want to cry thinking about it. I feel so fucking stupid ramming, give it that's the whole manipulation that they're playing on like worse then we're supposed to be embarrassed that we had. You know
the pride or who are we to think of her picture taken when actually that's that's the play. That is the whole thing is how they get you a leg. Of course your flattered and then you have a little ego stroke and then, oh, my god. Maybe I am a model and it's all those things, then it's the shame of that that special. I keep you quiet and thought that shit. It's like it says that they are dealing with you in a human being. That gets that kind of special attention is going to go. Oh my god! I want that special attention that we all want. That's everybody wants to be told that they're pretty and want. You now have their picture taken in its the easiest way to manipulate appeal, and let us remember the moment it took a term and I got scared Orilla. Something was not right, Nothing, I'm running out, yeah gone. Anyway so Robin SAM says, friends
the police that a stranger had approached them at the beach asking to take their pictures and they circulate a sketch. The photographer outcome His parole officer recognizes him in this sketch and then they search his house in Monterrey Park and they find a rental receipt for storage locker in Seattle. So They go into that storage locker and they find a pair of Robin Samson airing, so he's basically killing people taking the why I ever remember the word for a thief: yeah the trophy, but then he's keeping it like an indifferent state, so
he's arrested, one thousand nine hundred and seventy nine held without bail, he's tried, convicted and sentenced to death for Robin Sanchez murder. But the verdict is over turn around because jurors had been improperly informed of his prior sex crime. So then, in nineteen eighty, six, seven years later, they retry him for the same. It's the identical trial, except for The prior record and he's convicted again and sentenced to death again and the nine Cirque Circuit Court of Appeals panel null five. The second conviction why in part because a witness was not allowed, who was not allow necessary, a witness, was not allowed to support our collars contention that the
Granger who found SAM, says body had been quote hypnotized by police investigators. So there is somebody that wanted to our colleague said this park. Ranger was hypnotized by the police. That's why he sang this happened. He had a friend who's, gonna back em up and they were like no different doesn't get to say that and then they find once they find that out. There, like the whole thing, has to go. They keep getting it like on these weird details and this goes I mean, In prison the whole time re, he is he's held without bail, I'm not shirt in the. If you ask me details about this going to be, I tell you I've through this together so quickly, but this is the kind of thing and you can look up his name and watch thousand shows about because he basically they say, he's like that because
pictures and the cold cases that they believe are associated with these pictures he's only. He only go to jail for four murders, but they think he's responsible for over a hundred unleash they just can't prove it over and over a hundred. Worse, he's peas, one of the worst serial killers ever my and he's still alive and in jail and keep appealing I keep seeing him in. I keep seeing him getting older and older and, like Sienese, photos that crazy area will he does. He has all these an end. It's crazy because he's again one of those geniuses then like at one point he represents himself and and then Cross examined himself and an end is talking in a deep voice as one person and then his own voice and the other like it's that kind of total insanity.
That you know it's what that's TED Bundy represented ass, they all kind of think like its aid, just thinker, invincible and then the smartest people in the world. My essentially in two thousand three Orange County investigators, they learn I'll call, is DNA had match seamen left at the rape murder scenes of two women in LOS Angeles and that's when they start linking cold case you this guy and it led to his indictment for the murders of four additional women Jill BAR comas eighteen, a New York, one away who has found rolled up like a ball in LOS Angeles, ravine and nineteen seventy seven. They thought she was a victim of the hillside, Strangler Georgia, wixted twenty seven, who is bludgeoned and mount her Malibu apartment and nineteen. Seventy seven, which is super weird cause. Malibu, is so fuckin, Tony and higher, and this is that thing of like, like that, the assistance Syria's heiress who he
clearly was able to like be in and out a very tony high places and with those kind of piano. Breakin too, like I am Malibu location. Note your way and like I feel weird Starbucks and Malibu Lounge feel if you don't belong totally and they know it Charlotte, Lamb was thirty one. She was raped and strangled, and the laundry room of her Elsa Gundolph Apartment, complex and Jill parentage, whose twenty one who was killed in her Burbank apartment and nineteen. Seventy nine and all of these bodies were found posed in carefully chosen position, which I think than they eventually led to understanding that he was posing them and taking pictures up all my gear and they found another pair of hearings in Seattle, storage locker that matched Charlotte Lambs DNA, so they're kind of it all starts looking back over and over
So eventually the police find a collection of more than a thousand photographs, and they are mostly of women in teenage boys in sexually explicit pose is in his third trial in two thousand. Three prosecutors enter a motion to join us SAM, so charges with those of the four newly discovered victims and so Turkey is, of course, try to contested. Like you basically saying you can you can t give benefit of the doubt or would it whatever they got reasonable doubt one, but you can do it with for re, but
They ruled in the prosecutions favour and in February of twenty ten he's to trial on five joined charge. Evil is so recent I know is not. We're seems like it should have been so long that has happened because he was doing it for so fucking around, but I think it was a thing of they had him on one in jail for one and then suddenly. It was that dna era that came through in the sudden and that's what that was when all those specials come out in those lay in the late Ninetys were like they just found this guy. The lot of them have that feel to it. If this guy per minute. He's when he was his own lawyer. He showed the jury, a portion of his nineteen thousand eight appearance on the dating game in it
to prove that the hearings that were found in that Seattle locker were his own and not SAM, says, and they end up bringing Jed mills bachelor number two to this trial, I'll fuck, so that he can say I would have remembered if a guy was wearing areas. Nineteen, seventy eight- he was not wearing area five yeah. Is that crazy and then eventually they get Tal yeah the eight year old girl he raped in the least sixty oil. She comes in testifies, so that they can keep this guy in jail. Holly share in twenty turn: the ten Huntington Beach in New York City Police Department released a hundred and twenty of his photographs seeking the public's help to idea
I find the people in them in hope of determining if any of the women and children he photographed were additional victims. There are nine hundred additional social photos that could not be made public because they were to sexual explicit. So he was like all my hideous kiddie porn. You know, like portal fur exploitive. Paying. Obviously
The police reported that approximately twenty one women had come forward to identify themselves and six families so that they believe they recognize loved ones who had disappeared Myers ago line or never found. They saw their missing loved ones in these photos, but none of the photos were unequivocally connected to a missing person case or an unsolved murders until twenty thirteen, when a family member recognised a photo of Christine Thornton, who was twenty eight, whose body was found in Wyoming and nineteen? Eighty two not even hear about those young and as of September twenty sixteen last year, a hundred ten of those original photos remain posted on line and please continue to solicit the public's help with further identifications. What's all go to them right, fucking, now in twenty sixteen, he was charged with its nineteen. Seventy seven murder of a woman who was identified through one of those photos and just
in, in closing, which I find fascinating, an interesting his diagnoses when he was in court. The psychiatric Diagnose M as having a narcissistic personality disorder and malignant narcissistic personality disorder with psychopathy and sexual sadism. Co morbidity ease Jesus come more bidding sets the second trifecta. If you don't want to end up where you don't want the board. Co, morbidity anywhere near you know: do you want to know what it means? the presence of one or more additional diseases are disorders. Co occurring including including sounds worse than likings lobbies, baby,
Think morbid justice link, gruesome recent we'll have to ask I brown we will have to ask, I am sure everyone to us on Twitter. That was not the greatest version of trying to tell the radio cologne I was very am that was very tell did I do. I know you did a great timeline really interesting. I had some personal information share as well. I like that you know what I mean. Much actually gets worse and I'll tell you afterwards, but all know, and I know because a good story. Well, I just recommend anybody. That's if you are slightly interested take it deep dive, because he is really horrifying end and kind of way, another one of those lesser known but very depressed if an horrifying monster people we. This was an episode of monster. People monster pupil pressure from the depths
second power at plus the dating game, paucity eating game, plus the Pacific Northwest, as always mix in their somehow. You know it just has to be in there suppressing how about a good thing? How many good things about it? I didn't apartment. Let my new apartment! Last time: it's beautiful inquiry like a what are you do? I know I did that Cuba countless times accuse a cat, and I saw your picture my answer. Grandma accuse again his real hard stark is way Instagram and there is a second sweet picture. Jacuzzi had seen sense, Gus that is a legitimate and he has such a rigid in the real deal is, I guess I've already bragged now twice at you about my best thing, but my best thing is just it's so fun to work on a job right now, It's just funded to perform again it's really fun to have.
Fake eyelashes on a long. They are less. Aren't they the bad. They make you like a queen yeah, it's pretty fun and for me, like it's just a period of I, didn't think I was gonna be performing anymore in like ten years ago. If you had asked me if any, these things are behind me. I feel like you're insane, I'm stuck in office building in Burbank, and I will never leave here. So I'm very, I feel grateful and like kind of Excited- and I don't know I'm happy ale, fingernails fingernails fingernails about it. What Sir Leon today nearly two of fancy and like oh yeah, maybe I should have a manicure like I should try. You need to I've linen lay a bit. I've said this many times, but I've been in I've been in it
for almost a decade and look at your coming out of the buggy and again I love and I saw cause announce the thing I love and I tried about it as I've been posting political stuff on Israel and Twitter, a scary to us to do that, because your immediate, like refreshing, to see people sing, means f to you but you're. So many people have been saying really nice things on the eight zero. You is affecting an entity that I'm so happy to donate to and to end that are fighting for us, and so I started crying when I saw the like positive comments from people on my political posts. I just want to read one thing because you wrote this tonight and I read it. I know. Thank you because
beautifully written and it's exactly right with all this stuff. That's happening in our country right now, which is incredibly scary and have a lot of friends who like talk about Alzheimer, like I don't know what to do. This is, and this is insanity this is so scary and you you tweeted this tonight. You said we have an amazing opportunity to atone for the atrocities past generations inflicted on those deemed different and undesirable and then the hashtag love trumps hay, and it really feels like that's, what's happening right now, as those people that are suck and taken to the streets who, when somebody puts down a muslim ban in order to say that certain people can come to this fucking country, people immediately show up in the streets going no,
fucking way. That's I end to see it happening. I mean that I sat in the grocery store. Parking lot was staring at my phone for an hour and crying and going wholly all these people at airports so empowering unlike up until a week ago, I was not looking at articles. I was feeling so be down, and maybe it's because my mother, my lax approach, God doubled. I don't know what I've only I'm feeling really like positive and empowered and not scared a reading. These articles and like excited to be part of it, and I ve been told for a year that the majority wants this, and basically people are showing up in the streets to say the images It does not want this. I am here to say I dont want this. It's an amazing beauty.
A thing and you see it now. The thing that people are treating tonight is showing all these people that are protesting at these airports and their processing at airports in the middle of the country. People keep tweeting. Oh look at these. Look at these coastal at in the middle of Kansas in the middle array ino wherever they were, it was like the It was like a joke. A couple people made the coastal elites joke because it was a boy airport in Texas in airport, in while men will you not so great? To is that, I think for years in every administration there has been so many things that should it'll are up in arms about and that everyone's like. What do we do about this and nobody's protested? Because it's easy to do?
big in Amsterdam. People there's not this army that protest with and suddenly it feels like were not letting these things happen on its. There are several things that in the past should have been protests. It like this and haven't been hung two percent, and now everyone knows there is a way for every single person to get involved, CN it's kind of its empowering whenever ones I gotta know to deal it's like here, five things you can do go online and surf. There's protests: you can donate money. You can donate time. You can. You know to me somebody may cause it's just there's a lot to do. You can express ourselves. It is very. I love the fact that a kind of kicked off with the women's March and all the women's March as being five times bigger than all they thought any of them are going to be. But then this these airport protests watching and its people. I know that are out there. It watching people show up by Thousands to say you cannot do this to people is beautiful and that what we have to remember you that
I remember that's the majority that is truly the majority and maybe again very selective robot, I'm fuckin over my fear and anxiety of protesting like I'll, be out there being in a crowd. Yeah, it's hard to me in a crowd. I know, but if necessary. Now now I realize it's fucking necessary and I don't care if I go. Overwhelmed, while its well could be pitiful Tonia around, the speaker was seen as their yeah. Listening to my fair com. If you are selling climbed on our on twitter and minster, Amman face now listening for listening to do any of those things, the other related eliciting. We really appreciate you listening and please stay Saxony, don't get murdered by Lee, Elvis you wanna Cookie Mimi! It's your big chance! You wanna cooking emu, a cookie, vows Elvis Stephen thank you for being awesome.
Transcript generated on 2020-01-15.