Do you have a good sense of how others see the world? Psychologist, journalist and best-selling author Daniel Goleman discusses his ground-breaking research on emotional intelligence. Daniel explains how we can enhance and manage our emotions to expand our brain capacity. As a pioneer in the emotional and social intelligence movement, Daniel's research changed the way we look at what it means to be smart. He explains how people can sharpen their emotional intelligence to improve their relationships, work and even the empathy they have for others. Daniel wrote for “The New York Times” for 12 years, specializing in psychology and brain sciences. He has also authored more than 10 books on psychology, education and leadership, including the 1995 bestseller "Emotional Intelligence," which has sold more than 5 million copies worldwide.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I'm over Winfrey, welcome to supersede conversations the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gives you can give yourself is time taking time to be more fully present journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now: emotional intelligence, compassion being in the flow. We explore these grounds. In concepts with pioneering journalist, best selling author and psychologists, Doktor, Daniel Gomin, I've known down your Gorman for over twenty years. He opened our eyes to a new way of thinking about the difference between IQ and EU. Our emotional intelligence, Daniel Gomin unravel the mystery of the relationship between our
brain our emotions and what he calls the scientific case for spirituality his exhaustive research on how our brains regulate emotions culminated in his groundbreaking book, emotional intelligence, It became a phenomenon spending over a year and a half on the New York Times by sellers shifting the way we define what it means to be really smart, so this book emotional intelligence. It was landmark, it was a landmark. It as revolutionary and I later of since read that the Harvard Business Review actually called it a paradigm shattering idea, one of the most influential books of the last two decades emotional intelligence, and I had a big aha moment reading this book, because for the first time I suddenly guy-
one of the reasons why I've been able to be so successful in life because there were so many people always who were smarter than I who had higher. I accuse- and I who you know were more intellectual deny and then suddenly. I thought but I gotta mommy sure do I gotta management big, if that was the bigger her for me, because I grew up my both my parents, college teachers and I grew up with this kind of myth. It's the lie. We all get in school, How will you do in school? It's gonna be. How would you do in life actually get life? Not true? It's it's. How you manage yourself, how you handy relationships, I mean it's really have to say. You're empathy is like olympic level and I think that one of the secrets of our success- I didn't know that until I read this and I thought all that's what it is my implicate, it's my ability to feel what other people are feeling have compassion for what
people are going through and not on? Not only feel that, but like internalize and know what really matters to people? Yes, you know I mean I don't care if you're a valid Torreon, it doesn't help you one bit toward understanding of the people, sensing what they feel doing, what matters to them, knowing how to put it
you ve done so beautifully? Well, thank you for that. You share in the book why a lot of people with a hundred and sixty I cues are working for people with a hundred rise or less I mean so. The smartest people are often not the best leaders and certainly not the best bosses. I once was giving a talk to a room for the seals and I said how many of you were valedictorian smartest kidney class. Two three hundred people three hands went up in the room. It's not related. This is the big. I think myth that the book shatters- and there was a moment for me- is that you're, I q your academic abilities. Your kind of brilliance is not what's gonna matter, the most. Actually, that's kind of threshold gets you win the game. You once you in the game, it's how you get along with the people, how you handle yourself so you're right. You can tell
do what you can do, but it can't tell you how to do it and it's not gonna. Tell you you're going to emerge as a team leader is a star, so I can tell you how good apparent you're gonna be how good a spouse? What is the difference, because we do a lot of talk on this, show about the spiritual, the Spirit within things. So what's a different speed weighing emotional intelligence and spiritual intelligence, because he of emotional intelligence is a sense of self awareness through a sense of empathy incarceration and to me that's what your spirituality is also about. I totally agree, I think, is, I think, on the same spectrum, but in this you know when
talk about it to educators, business because you're, a scientist for animal science journalist. I met the science and I doubt about self awareness and everyday way. Do you know what you're feeling why you feeling it do? You know how to manage those feelings? You know what someone else's feeling. Can you put it together and have a good interaction and good relationship? That's everyday! Take all those up a notch self awareness that deep reflection in which children living its meditation it's turning into the spiritual and within Eu Self Awareness is having enough time or making enough time to spend a loan so that you can be with yourself and have a say of awareness, and you have to make time to have a reflection once more how lad, then you can handle yourself in a way that a wines with your own sense of purpose, meaning and values, values and value, Yeah, that's something that we need to work out a little too. I think so, that's it. Eater self awareness may
junior emotions will then, after that this, when I was six empathy, that other person, no matter how their feelings- and you know their three kinds of empathy. Really I didn't really tell already. There were three kinds of empathy. What is kind of empathy? That means I understand how you see things. What your perspective is, you know that old saying walk a mile and the person she is technically. It means I know what mental models you, how I know what language to you so you'll understand me such one complete set in it in it, operates in one part of the brain and almost impassable to be truly successful, the world without some exactly isn't: gonna have that you're gonna have their and lots of people have bosses who are not absolutely or managers who are not yet or resources or spouses who are not, which makes for poor can, she's in it? At all I mean occasion and in a lot of problems yet again at work? The second kind is it it's? A different part of the brain is the social, but
We call it an that's cinching yourself immediately. What the other person is feeling that means report. And you know you only have the poor if you pay full attention to the person you gonna have chemistry, rack opposing view, a pink and, if you're not distract on checking my thing. That could happen so there's this emotional empathy. The third kind is a very important it is underrated, is called empathic concern. It means, if I have someone in my life who is in distress, I'm not just going to feel it, I'm going to want to help them, because I love them. The third part of the brain, which is to be called the ancient mammalian system for parenting. It's that it's like a apparent love for a child, We will have that love for someone, then you're gonna be there for them and that's that's a different kind of a different kind of differ the motion and saw the self awareness the ability to manager emotions having empathy also leads
the next thing, and that is having great relationships and automatically an altogether you have you do those three things: you're gonna have a better, only think about it. If you, if you're out of control, you can't manage yourself, you can have terrible relationship if you, if you dont tune in you, don't know, what's going on ass, a person The off so you need to have a hollow those three to have a good interaction so in a sense that is of a spiritual, intelligent, also welcome, and at last one empathic concern as a basis for compassion. Yes, that it's another way of talking about compassion, so I built a school in South Africa opened two thousand seven. Now those girls are in college. I have a hundred I'm a kitten college. Twenty of them are in the United States, twenty one exactly and I learned so much from your book in the nineties about flow and being
in flow with your life. Literally, our expression in our family is about whether or not you are in out of flow, so when things are going wrong, my kids will call and say a lot of flow out, I'm having a bad time. PS. I haven't read about a flop:
I go away you gonna have to do to get back in flow of that's your whole life is about that Daniel Gomin was one of the first two popularize, the idea low or being in the zone. He described it in emotional, intelligent as a state in which people become utterly absorbed in what they're doing their awareness merged with their actions. Well, the things we love doing things get us and flow. Yet that's the point, and so if you're in school here stood, you wanna be in flow, while you're studying one being flow in the classroom. You want love learning if you're in no working in a job, you want to find a way to make that your flow. If you, but really the things we do by choice, the things we do in our free time of the things that help us get and floor,
and it might be some party, it might be. A sport re might be being with your kids could be anything different for different people, but the mark of flow is always the same, and that is things are going really well, and I feel really good. That's when you know it means. You are in alignment with your life. Doesn't it it does mean that everything, as you put it everything's, lined up everything's lined up. So you have this wonderful talk about compassion about. Why aren't we more compassionate? Why do you think we are not more common? play screens right into what we're talking about you know if someone is in need in your life or on the street would have been maybe and your self absorbed you're. Thinking about your to do list of your want. You know you're on your cell phone, whatever you don't have the attentional bandwidth to even notice them. Long after I let alone tune it, let alone she what's going on, which can lead you to helping. So the road to compassion starts with pure attention.
Our attention is being robbed. There was a saying a kind of scientists said long ago. He said what information consumes his attention, a wealth of information means of poverty, of attention interesting, and we get five times more information today than we did five years right not for really focusing on anything, no sense of mindfulness about anything and I'm glad you bought a mindless because that's the antidote. The antidote is getting intentional about your attention, and that means being mindful noticing weary. Noticing, noticing what you're doing is aligned with what you intended to do. Mindfulness means keeping model. Don't go anywhere more to come after this short break, these episode is supported by hallmark cards. We say I love you too. The people we care about all the time so much so that sometimes it can start to feel a little bit like a habit. If you're,
king for a way to make those three little words mean a little more this Valentine's day, try sing them with a hallmark card because when you share your love in a hallmark, hard you're taking that everyday reminder and turning it into the kind of love they can hold on to and that stays with them. Long after Valentine's day, since hallmark, has so many kinds of Valentine's day cards. You can find one for every important relationship in your life this year. For ever Valentine's day. Cards you buy hallmark, will give up hard to someone who could use a little love up to a million cards Valentine say: is Friday February fourteenth, keep the let's go in visit, hallmark dot com. Slash super saw to find them on Times day cards for everyone. You care about and use promo code but super soul to get twenty percent off your card purchase. So can we all improve our emotional quotient? Absolutely and that's one why strong points about. Emotional intelligence. Is it's not a fixed thing? It's not like you. I q.
IQ stays the same wireless through life. Emotional intelligence is learned and learn about we start learning it in childhood and if we need to get better at something like I worry too much, we can do that. The the mind is still what they call plastic. The brain is plastic changes through life, and if you take a systematic approach like with worry with anxiety, you can purposely learn a waiter relax in use,
I influence to notice when you spinning out and then apply that and that changes your pants and you believe that we should start fast, fostering that emotional iq in the cradle actually. Well, I think that parents, you no good parenting, really means helping a child. Fielded cared about tuned into emphasised with in any good parent. Does that. But if you have that base that secure bays, then you couldn't care about the people. Then you can manage yourself better. So I think that parents are the first tutor of an emotional intelligence, so we can teach us and we can teach our children to have a higher emotional quotient, absolutely the end in schools. This is called the social emotional learning there's a lot of it going on. There are hoping to me National part of the national and international, I think it should be international I think you should be international there's. No. I have learned at my school that that is what really matters I started out. Looking for one thing
Now I know that having a base What social emotional learning is is developing character and any value system, and what a lot of educators now called grit, that thing that allows you to keep going and have resilience the face of failure and self awareness to know who you are all of those things, far more important, actually or certainly equally as important. How will you do in Athens and another word for grit is technical, its cognitive control. I was in a school second grade classroom in Spanish, Harlem user kids the projects next to the school terrible. You know that the drug dealers, in other words, conditions yes, worse, conditions, you can imagine every day they go. Each kid goes to the copy gets a little stuff. Find a place to lie down on the rug, puts that animal under Tommy and why,
she's rise on the in breadth and fall on the outbreak count one two three and breadth one, two, three and now teachers is this- keeps a calm and focused all day long
and this is basically a lesson in mind- mindful meditation- and it turns out that what from brain point of view, what you're doing is strengthening the prefrontal cortex, which is the mines executive centres, the boss, its than one learns where we plan, where we decide and where we become mindful, and that it turns out that if you take kids, forty eight measure their ability in this and pick him up in their thirties. It predicts financial success and their health better than I q or the wealth of the family. There grew up in really it's totally independent. So what you're doing with your kids, with your students with your children when you help them delay gratification focus where you need to focus and focusing by the way is a muscle. Attention is flabby muscle in this culture. That's why we get seduced by herbage
tat devices. But these kids are in the mental Jim and it's it's literal. Every time you bring your attention back from being distracted like oh yeah, one two, three one, two three years: strengthening the circuitry for focusing for paying attention and that's a key to success in life being able to focusing able focused where you want to be when you want to because doesn't focus also determine flow, now that's interesting, say the trick to getting into flow there to one is to balance your skill level with a challenge. That's the classical way. The short cut is to pay full attention, or whatever you doing right now, you're mine from a schedule right into play into fluctuated right into fly. You say that today our attention is low,
really under siege. I love that expression under siege. Tell me what you mean by that. Well, here's what I mean I mean we could be with say we're out to dinner upper right, and the question is: what do we do with our smartphone. Do we don't bring it to the table? Thank you very much not allowed in our as it. So you go. I've gone to overall, my wife or restaurant. We would put our foot
side, but you look around your candle lit room, nice table clause and couple was looking at their smartphones nine into each other's eyes. It's like stealing life is what it's doing. Life is with people. Life is in those moments when we connect in it continually interrupting I'm worried about kids I'll, tell you: why? Don't you say it's couldn't its continual. I love the line that use its continually seducing us and selling us. That's. Why we're under siege, because we ve been seduced and a lot of people now officially addicted? Well, I think that the cultures directed yeah yeah, it's very pervasive and I'm very concerned particularly about kids, because we, the brain, was not designed for this. The brain is designed to learn these skills. We talk about social and emotional skills face to face that start when you were lit
right right from don't we win the day. You're born you start to pick up the stuff in the brain is shaping itself by what it observes that I've seen this. You know two year olds, thrills playing a game absorbed in this screen, ignoring everything around them. I'm worried about what's happening to the developing brain are they really gonna, learn the emotions, social skills they need. This is a Another argument for putting this schools to be sure every kid learns these skills. Otherwise, I it's an unprecedented experts. With an entire generation of the human race, is outlawed globally, we don't know what the consequences will be and twenty, because the truth of the matter when you're two years all and you are consistently on a little the machine, a device that is affecting the
way, your brain forms and you're missing out on some crucial lessons whatever they may be. You know when a mom talk to an infant who doesn't understand language. The kid is already learning how you interact. That's really important when a kid, is playing some goofball two year old three year old video game. The brain is not getting what it needs, its malnutrition, I love the Bloomberg study that recently the people, the smart phone or tablet splendid averaging Lily three hours a day, looking at them and that's about forty five days a year When you add up all those hours spent Our mobile devices is an incredible stunning. Yes, so
invaded our lives for better or for worse. I think that there are being listen. The technology cow is out of the barn, and this is where we are as a society. I think the conversations that we are having conversations at parents should be having with their children is. How are we now going to manage it exactly it's a conversation. Every parent should have with the kid, but then you have you have to be it yourself to have a conversation. That's right, I will write, take some self is difficult to have that conversation with your children when you're always on when you the phone. Having that governs, mom they'll say you do yourself. Is there a difference between Spirit, morality and religion. I love this. You outta, I know you know there is a difference. Can you tell a story about God walking down the street with a devil so gardens?
walking down the street and gardens down and she's pick something up in its translucent glowing in her hand and Satan says: what's that God says this is the truth saying says: let me have it I'll organise it for you, and I really believe that that I think the truth. I think that finding your real connection with a higher force is a personal? I dont think we need organizations to manage it for us. Do some people need organizations? I think organizations can help. You are sure you know. I start this book emotional intelligence with the story of a man who was a bus driver, Yemen, a hen who you know I got on the bus and very hot human day. In August it was awful them wanna talk to anybody didn't know interaction like everybody else recipe and I get on the bus. He looks at me says: how's your David. He really looked at me that kind of shook me up. Yes, potent
then I knows he's talking everybody on the bus. Oh you looking so it is a great sale here. Did you hear about the movie in the cinema here the great matete shown their on people get off that passengers can say. We have a wonderful day in this Thank you. He was an urban saint that man spreading good feeling, a city that really needed it, but I later found out he was a pastor of church. Along on he saw the people on his bus as his flock. He felt the d they were his people, so he naturally reached out in gas they connect. He was minister ring and where every was driving the Botswana. The lesson for me- and this has to do with your earlier question: what can we do? it doesn't matter. What we're doing supposedly, is how we do it. You can
always you said interaction to help the other person, even if you just helping them, feel a little better. That's an act for good. This is one of my favorite sayings. Is it nobody knows enough to be pessimistic. Interesting. Nobody knows enough to be pessimistic. Alright, splain that ok! Well, something good could happen that you don't know about. For example, I'm very passionate about the impact of human behaviour, human activities, things we buy and due on the systems and support life on the planet. Ever you know when we buy something. If you look at its history, its whole lifecycle, its it degrades in some way or in many ways the system's Matthew. Another technical system support life and you could
Well, we know in slow motion suicide. That's one way to look at another way to look at it is you know what we need to reinvent everything? Young people today are very creative in the future. Things can happen. We can do things differently in a way that will be compatible with nature. We didn't know the impact would be enough You know this glass well, this glass is made with bronze age technology. You take some sand and ed chemicals and he did a very high temperature for a long time and has huge negative impacts over its lifecycle, particularly if you think of all the glasses made. However, there's their totally different ways to get the same. Container for liquid and let's let future generations come up with that and change the course service. Being on this. You know doom and gloom. Be hopeful. So that's the way in which this means you just don't know, what's going to happen there,
years ago, a young Daniel government was teaching of class at his alma Mater Amherst College when he had a chance encounter with his holiness the Dalai Lama and unlikely pair. The science based author and the Buddhist monk formed a deep and lasting friendship the to meet regularly for what Daniel Gomin calls extended dialogues discussing everything from neuroscience and ecology compassion and empathy. I love this lock a force for good the Dalai Lama's vision for our world, so you wrote the book with the Dalai Lama. While I wrote the book is very interesting. The Dalai Lama is such an unusual purse
that the people around him said. Would you like this book? Is it for his eightieth birthday, because you can say things about him. He would never say about himself that I was there when he won the Nobel Prize just by accident, and I was there at the press conference. The first question was: how does it feel to win the Nobel Peace Prize and he stopped and said I feel happy pause. Then it is for the people who wanted me to win the price. I happen to have had tea with him that the day before with a friend who's a producer- and he talked to the producer about using media for positive message. He never mentioned the fact that it just gotten the call saying he won the Nobel peace. That's an unusual, indeed very different algorithm emotionally
Guess what I just got the call that, yes, who wouldn't do that, but he and he really genuinely- has a universal compassion here. I think, he's the person I admire the most in the world to do so, and why did you write the booklet? What is right, I wrote them Because I feel that his message is absolutely essential for the course of the world and I felt honor to be asked and have the opportunity to take his vision for the future and put it in his readable away. I could so that people would be inspired in chapter. Two in a force for good. You talk about emotional hygiene, which I love the idea of that visit. And how do we practise good emotional hygiene rules, hygiene, he says this- that arms. As you know, we teach kids physical hygiene, wash your hands by your teeth, but
don't pay attention to emotional hygiene, actually he's talking about emotional intelligence. Turning into what you're feeling Managing your distressing emotions, Marshall your positive emotions absolutely and turning into other people, that's emotional hygiene. So, on page one, ninety eight of a force for good You put the negativity of our daily news into perspective. I mean I thought this is brilliant. You write that on any day of the year you're going to want to put this on, the day of the year. The denominator of kindness will be vastly greater. Then the numerator of cruelty, huh
What would tat, I think, was amazing, while I was at the time for a long time and wisdom and action, and it turns out that the news is really for the limping system. The news the headline NEWS, these this train wreck here hurricane, is about threats. It's about things it scare us and that we need to be prepared for that's very primitive part of the brain olympic system between the years is emotional brain and the news is costly pumping out the bad stuff for that. But what is it all about? Fear fear, exact. It set up to create fear, fear machine, and it's so interesting that you, when I read this big another big ARPA, reminding myself of why I personally left in his business and my friend gale CBS this morning she loves it. She loves the news. I personally felt that it was not in flow with my speech
because I felt every day I'm going out and I'm coming up with the worst story to try to attract people too. To watch actions is one reason. I love what you do, because you're focusing on the good stuff, the kindness every day is like one when mom does for her kids, it's what people do for the people, they love for they care about I've just been considerate, being civil and there's so much more of that going on in any given minute, then the things that make the headlines, but you see the brand receives a disproportionately. Ok has its headline news. You know it's It's what's on the twenty four hour news channel, so literally a brain takes our brain handle or remembers negative better than it does positive, and this is viable reason for that. What is at issue we needed to know what was dangerous in order to survive. We need to be able to
think about it. Don't go down again, there's a lion down the com is that that brain design, for you know of a hundred thousand years ago, now makes us wakes up a mill of night and we overnight we go over those worries over and over a necessarily. Sometimes you can't stop it and it doesn't do us any good, and I think the newsfeeds that the new states that in the news, is a narrow slice and carefully curated and selected piece of reality. So this is whatever one's focusing on today tomorrow, it's gonna be something it might be someone's beheaded somewhere some. Yes, you know it's what's gonna fascinate us and what scares s fascinate us so there's a kind of a psychological trick going on there too. The psychological trick is that what scarce fascinates us, because we have to think about it, that's the way the brain is wired, and that means that
You can get this disproportionate since the world is going out of control when actually our lives are perfectly under control. We, when you're mindful I now lies, I try not to let up in that. I cannot control or effect and if it's going to cost owing to feel ITALY than I did other way to do. It is too since to be mindful of your reaction to the news, and that is, I think, when most useful things I've done a mile is to be able to change the relationship, my own relationship to my own thoughts and feelings, and have more choice inside because, if you just, for example, Rediscovery Harold headline in
you get agitated than you worry about, take it in and you let it control you, instead of taking what you need to from it and then moving on migrants that you let go of it and go on yeah. What's the greatest lessen the Dalai Lama's taught you, the greatest lessons he's taught me is that the world is not as bad as we think, and in fact we each one of us has a way we can make it a better place. The message that he gives all over the world the gives in the book is that each. If we can find a way to act now to improve the future since it Zone Chichester was just on hearing, she was saying I was seeing what Can we do she said? Do something everybody can do something
If you know it article so big open, even in here, you say the Dalai Lama says: I mean our world problems are gargantuan there. You know it feels overwhelming, sometimes that one person can do anything. But in essence, what you're saying is something that my Angelou taught me you plant trees and the seeds for whose shade you may never stand. He says the same things as act now, even if you won't see the fruit of the action in your lifetime. So how could each of us be? again in our own way, to be a force for good. Every one of us has something we can do to make the world a better place in might be as simple as spending time with that lonely old lady down the street going to a soup kitchen.
Building houses, helping build houses for most people trying to change policy. Each one of us has a lever in the world are set of lovers that we can use in some way to improve things we just have to think about. It takes little mindfulness. One of the wonderful things you talk about here are the stories we tell ourselves how important other stories we tell ourselves in effecting the way we see ourselves and move through the world. The stories we tell ourselves give us implicit limits and possibilities, and so it's very important to have a story which lets you be the fullest. You then you'll be because, if your store you tell yourself, is oh I'm no good at that arrives. But enough to negative story. Then you're not gonna. Try if it's a hopeful story, a story that lets you risk and learn. Then you'll be your best, so yeah and as the Dalai Lama says, we can eat start with. What?
we are and with whom we are that's where we each began and then he says, act to help yourself to help other people. It's interesting. He says: compassion begins with this emotional hygiene with getting yourself in shape, and then let you open your heart in a way that you can be really effect, but it was also. You are also talking about a book every single thing we do cuz everybody thinks it. If you're going to make change or you going to transform your life, it begins with big stuff but you're, saying everything we do. This is on page two hundred and fifteen has some effect, even a simple act. The Dalai Lama said, although it might insignificant when we multiply it by billions of others who might do the same thing we can have an enormous impact as simple as turning off the light. When you leave a room man, May I just love the simplicity of that when you think about your son, Turning off the light and a million other people turn off the light
We look at the electricity, we all say, and he says you know we do this all in connection. We do it in unison. The force for good that he's talking about is each one of US model, applied by all the rest of us. When you were doing the book you sit down with him. Did you talk to him and interviewed him for several hours, But I have also known him for for many years. He feels all the same human being and he relates to everybody equally, and I respect that so much. I've learned a lot from a learned, a lot. I want to thank you for offering the planet this idea of EU and a powerful. We can become through empathy through self awareness through building relationships skills, and I think that that's really
be one of your great legacy for all of us. Thank you. It's very kind, and I want to thank you for being a force for good. I think that your legacy, thank you, Daniel Roman. Thank you. Thank you. I'm ruined free and you ve been listening to supersede conversations podcast. You can follow supersonic on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook if you haven't yet go to apple podcast, unsubscribe rate and reviewed this podcast join me next week for another supersede conversation. Thank you for listening.
Transcript generated on 2020-01-15.