I'm over Winfrey welcome to supersede conversations the podcast. I believe that one of the most valuable gives you can give yourself is time. In time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now. I first met the author and spiritual Tito Debbie for it she appeared on my show back in two thousand he taught me and millions of our viewers about shadows, those hidden believes we have but ourselves that keep us from reaching our full potential Debbie returned to our stage two more times and you could see the light I was going off now spend more than a decade and Debbie Ford has decided to come forward out of a shadow. She is never talked about before on a beautiful Chris, clear, day in Santa Barbara, we met under the oaks in my back yard for talk. Neither one.

It is expected to have such a day going to be talking about something, a subject that you weren't. I heard that until we I'll, do you weren't even sure you were gonna, be talking about in public? That is too, This and you ve, decided that you're comfortable enough to do it here less gotta call. I knew that it was a bigger call here and that it was time- and I wasn't ready before of course, so you ve been badly cancer darling cancer. Now I've for most, probably eleven years if we go all the way back and he really been sick with itself. A year and a half like it finally got me no and dumb It's an interesting story because I got pneumonia and nothing else. I've tried to do I've less. I haven't listened because I had such a deal.

State of denial, and I physically felt well down and all and I got ammonia, which landed in the hospital and started the whole cancer. Kind of unravelling and you know, wound up a hundred pounds and sick in you know I've still than fighting that fur. Why don't? They come relish lighting up, but still it's going through it. I think so interesting that you Debbie Ford author of the dark side of light chasers, which say that you in denial because right on page fifty nine think of denial as an acronym for don't even notice, I am lying. You say we only fear feed as we know, one some level that we ve been lying to ourselves. If you honestly, though, that what someone thinks about you has no basis in reality, you won't care. We care and we ve been deceiving ourselves and get called on it,

what were you deceiving yourself about that? I was sick. Really, yes, I had a surgery after the Oprah shows that where they found a tumor that was about this big and I'm not very so. It was really a shock that they took that out of me, but it a certain kind of cancer that its encapsulated, meaning that you can't it doesnt going or tissues, you don't need to go, and so after the opera show eleven years ago, you went in and you had a surgery I had assert and they took this tumor out. That I heard was about five pounds. Yes, yes on your little boy my little bud yes, and so they took the tumor out and you thought I'm cured. That's it did you ever go back and have someone say you know your cancer free, they basically said you know honey. Answer in your body and because it's inside this tumor it took it out and in your check every year and I was stolen denial psych. Okay,

I would ask me, and you go to the actors askew you ever had cancer, I would say, no really lies. I guess I did I'm sorry, I didn't or you trying to do it as as a So as a sort of a spiritual tool of only thinking you build as thinking you believe, or were you just in denial? Just in denial, I mean I didn't notice. I was alone I didn't know. I was lying to myself because I too several they took it out, they're saying: there's nothing. They can do, there's no cancer, my body, so I must not have cancer, and I think it's time you know I grew up. I was like the little sick one. Yes and I decided some point because my sister and brother was strong and smart, and you know me: a whole act, my old persona, God created out of I'm gonna, be strong, like

and so it didn't allow me to have cancer. You know inside of my hopefully system where one of the other things that you say look The page that we are only as sick as our secrets, these secrets, make it impossible for us to be our then take cells. But when you make peace with yourself the world will Miro back, that same level of peace when you're, in harmony with yourself, you'll be in harmony with everyone else, it's page sixty to the dark side of the light chasers. So have you got into that space? Yet I feel like I'm sitting here today, because I M at peace with cancer, and I am clear that I have cancer and that I have to take care of myself first, but it was a long journey

why isn't it true? This is what what by producers have told me that you practically had to be laid before death's door before you would come to this recognition exactly really they were about to like this. Now we're like an hospice care practically were said they want and that one doktor wanna put me in asking. Unlike you crazy, do you think your God, I'm not dying? You know which that's kind of the healthy part of denial. So during this whole process, death never occurred to you. Never could do that you're sick enough to be in the position to actually check out now so what occurred it means that there was parts of me that wanted to check out, which was very interesting for me to see, because I was so busy and moves so fast, whether I was writing or making a film our travelling, giving a lecture that I didn't have the time to dwell in the cancer. Even though

flying to Dana Harbour. Empty Anderson are finding out what they're doing. I would do the medicine on my terms not on what they told me you know it's a level of arrogance. Just You know when you really look at it that I was so Eric than I thought. What are these people up and it has really that I didn't know, and I was just projecting all down on to them. Has it been humbling, absolutely shockingly humble humbling in what way. Well, I mean I think that I thought that one thing was that I deserves. I'm kind of protection because of the work I do in the world like started to uncover. You are a spiritual bought leader because you teach me all about finding their own path, the spirituality. You thought that you

who should be immune to cancer? The council really felt that- and I saw the arrogance of of that, but you know the humbling part is to wine even think the thought that that I could be so out of it. So out of touch with reality that couldn't grasp, even after all these years that I had a terminal what they consider you know a terminal disease. What do you think this disease has taught you about yourself and about your shadow, in particular

I think it's all really, although I do have to say that I really learned on the positive side about love, because I was so busy giving that I was unable to receive- and I think that things that I learned about my shadow the whole arrogance, peace and the level of denial and which somebody lives in the world of the shadow and talks about people shadow. All the time could be followed by that none of us. That's what's always fascinated me about the shadow. Is it so tricky like none, Thus there are new to life. You know what we do and to a possibility, but it starts out it's some kind of horrible trauma,

so for someone who is just awakening to the idea? I would you describe what that means to have the shadow self? There are our beliefs and then Are our shadow believes that keep us really from that our unconscious subconscious and key us from really moving forward in our lives. Yes- and I think for somebody his first hearing the conversation, yes on its part of us That is really, I call it are wounded. Ego part of us. It's been wounded, the shadow and it's what we try to hide about ourselves and that's a greater say you think about what I love most myself, you know and me before. I would have said that I can just going go and take on and you know do and Now I see that's a shadow of mine, what kind of person

and that's what we always ass. What kind of person would do that somebody who doesn't want to be seen as weak or lazy, and that's what I heard about my father growing up the slaves Then I don't wanna be that's, become like super busy fast, and it goes into my shadow, not even knowing that one day. It's gonna come up in and get me so we want to explore it's not about getting rid of the darkness of the pain or the events at happened to us, but it's about bringing light in and making the shadow light instead of having a use don't go anywhere or to come after this short break. Today's episode is supported by hallmark cards, we say I love you too, the people we care about all the time so much so that sometimes it can start to feel a little bit like a habit if you're

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This fear is not that we are inadequate, but that we are powerful beyond measure. Is the shadow always about what we're afraid of yes, Shadow is always fear based right, don't want to be that what we judge I don't wanna, be that I'll never be like. My mother people are always saying my father, you know, It's always a push away. That's how we know it's a judgment when somebody says something to us, and you know we have that jarring a fact and it makes us angry? We know it's our shadow, because otherwise we wouldn't care, but isn't the ultimate shadow, belief and I'm just asking. Maybe it isn't so. Is the ultimate shadow belief that I'm not good enough. I think that there is a couple, of course.

I'm not good enough. I'm unlovable write another form of I'm not good enough as I'm unworthy and I think a women more than anybody have that innately inside of them. So those are, you know three very powerful shadow believes that birth, all the other ones that come along and we understand it. We understand that it's not about Hating these, which most people are fighting right, the resisting Lotus resisting this shadow called cancer. You know where it, but it's about embracing. Why would I have this and how could I use said? I know you and I talked about it- I think the eleven years ago about you know how do you feel worthy in and how do we feel strong enough? No matter who we are- and I think Mary is right because were born with so many give citizens are suppressed.

That we cannot allow that real self and if you can allow the dark to exist, and you can allow the light. I think the real question boils down to worthiness, though, because I, as you have worked with people talk to people heard thousands of stories over the years. Everybody believes they deserve to be happy. Most people don't believe they're worthy of happiness, and there's a big difference between. I think I deserve this. Then too, oh, that I am truly worthy of this. Would you say yes and I think that the worthiness cut knows from this place where you know that you're connected. Something bigger than that. You can't get that except through spiritual. That's why I love the work is doing because you can't get it unless you have some attached and two spirituality and the bigger world. I know you ve coach, tens of thousands of people about

the shadows in what they were going through in helping people. Even many people with cancer was a time where you wanted to blurred out. I have cancer to know now now what what did you think? What what did you think or fear would happen if you share at it? I think that I was just a would all become about me and that their he based people came about them and that I dont want interesting. Now, if I tell somebody you know that's kind of outside my circle, you know they all have it aye, sir I'm sending you energy or working. I knew him and I don't want them to work on me. I don't want other people's energy on many. Was there a pardon,

I was thinking this when I first heard that when my producers told me that you were going through cancer, I think that's interesting, because cancer would have to make you vulnerable or make you somehow feel vulnerable and my biggest impression a view from the outside. Looking in is that you are not a person who wants to be vulnerable proudly trail. And I have I would say that now it's maybe part of my light shadow being able to be that transparent and the vulnerability of love. I mean that's really what I see is said there was forget about the loving people close to me. You know, but it was letting law

and that was so used- are giving and not receiving and not being able to receive here, and that is just was so shocking to man and then to feel people call me all my friends and give me so much love, and I think I just start crying like me when I never felt the love. I I knew that EU, but I couldn't be allayed its size. Its US add is I love that now that's what I needed. That was that's kind of my next growth stuff. You know my evolutionary register, now that part and to feel the love tat comes to me every day that I just ignore or two

for granting more ignore it light and anyone here it, and why do you and what was that cause? I'm asking because I think that's a shadow yeah. Absolutely that was a shadow that didn't wanna. Let it in right for fear of, I think my fear is that I would just tonight scene before that. I would just get so vague for my bridges and I would blow myself for. I think that's why right why good people do bad things, because I've seen it happen to so many people in my business you just get self locked up by their egos they can't there no longer with the people, and I think that it was that's, always been a fear of which I should have looked at, because when you constantly have of fear that comes up. Then you don't wanna, be that you know it.

The shadow lurking around, but I thought it was a good shadow. I wanted people to think about this. You you all right De Park and Mary In yourself, in the shadow of fact, talk about the shadow affect test, how you ve been working on the same issues, be they in the air your career, your healthier intimate relationships are finances, and you asked a question lessened. Of months wanted three years you ve been working. If the thing comes up over and over and over and over again that's a definite sign that you're living in a shadow, Europe's he absolutely or many of them, and we all have sent a minute really nothing to be embarrassed about or ashamed about that, it's part of, I think how Soul grows. We learn from the sea. Now I see The learning that I have today, nobody could teach me what I,

oh today, about healing and courage in how do bring forth, one self in the darkest times or even how to choose life. As for a while, I just had to choose, I want to live even though I didn't know why, because I didn't want to work any more it and want to give any more, had no energy to do anything. You know, I started with my son, I want to live because I want my son to at least get through college, and so that gave me something- and you know taking these little pieces and seeing making list every day two reasons to live, and I think a lot of people, my oncologist until you most people just give up. You refuse to give up absolutely. When you are asked to write a book on courage when was at that were about three and a half years of three and a half years ago before you went through this fire

yes, so you started out writing a book about courage and the writing of the book about courage. You weren't even talking about having answer or dealing with cancer, now I still haven't written the interest that the new government, because it's a wine all about cancer- that I literally the timing, the so magical, because I'm ready to talk it now now, right now words ready to talk about when you a few weeks ago, not even two weeks ago. My publisher, ask me: will you talk about this? I think you need to bring the cancer, and I said, ok and then you're producer colleagues, that is just too far to our out when you started writing the book about courage. You were in one place in space that was before you literally were placed at you know at death's door. What do you know now that you didn't know three years ago

Then I knew nothing of the Haug for her work as I was the shadow for us, and I knew everything about Kurd. Why all. I want to say to you know what I would say to I do say to myself what I say to anybody facing any life challenge or disease. You know is that you know that is courage to choose life to keep looking at what, good or finding a friend or a family member show richer.

Is to send me Tex every day. Just believe that I believe, because I would call United CALL crying. I lost my faith me who felt so close to God I felt like you know. I have been guided to every piece of work. I've ever done now, really blessed with that gifts to give in to feel like. I don't want to give it not nepalese theirs and to protect, and so you lost your faith. I lost my faith and every day, member writing about that one day we just have to make it. We have to choose a thief and if we don't feel or or pull down to a friend who has faith that they believe in us, what was your lowest moment? My Lois That was when I got home from the hospital.

Still. I didn't know that they were thinking. I was going to die. I thought I was just completed then have no energy were now. What were you? What does it feel? That's what sickness as he is empty for? Does dicks disk for us what else I so lost like. Why am I here? How do I want to be here? What am I doing if I'm not here, to serve cause since as a little girl? I wanted to do something good in so it's still like. I did not want any more Did you not have physical energy? Also, I know what you're talking about is emotion. Oh and spiritual, but slight there. You know that not the energy too up and put your clothes on energy that'll do your hair and just no energy, nine, sometimes except to go further, I didn't get out of bed. Maybe four thirty forty days.

When I got home from the hospital men, I could barely psych week my little legs for like little to tax. Just you know, I was just like El Ray, I'm twenty pounds heavier now and I'm still a rail in most places, but he might Lois moment was realizing that I didn't want to be renewed it'd, be that dark after all. I think that I couldn't help myself. Were you angry with God? I was angry with me. So called kneel down was really know that conversations with guide you were an you guys so angry, so pissed off. Because wine me yes like this should not be happening to me. We shouldn't be happening to anybody, so literally. What I'm hearing you saying is that the cancer humbled you.

And literally brought you to your knees? Yes worse, because of it, and on my knees I check thoroughly put you on your knees except you had to their lack of. I go down the floor even today. I can't get up you now and I'll just start crying, because it's like forty five. Think of says, I never had that thought. Never. How did you get through it on? I choose. What was it? What was that piece of what was the one little thread piece of light you were able to hold on to even when you ve lost your faith. What was there? I think, my son, he so great a semi fires is a little baby, but now is

gonna go to college. My son- and I managed I dont- know how, in this last year, to take him on college tours like two du monde stuff, I was then other thing. One of my goal was to be able to be really around him. The last two years, even some I didn't know that I was gonna- have to get knocked out with Chancellor to deduce. I've had the greatest time and I think he's really loved. You now may not saying I'll be back in a week or have you reach the point where you can see it as a gift? Absolutely you have reached us just in the last two weeks really well, and I think that

what I hope to write and the courage book is, and while I was writing, I was going to that. We gotta find that warrior inside we have to find that strengthen. Go after you have to go back to their courage book. You have to go back to that courage, but don't you think so? Yes, I've. Twenty five hundred words have to write on it. Yes, you can go back to their courage because part of this experience for somebody who has been a warrior, such as yourself, any spiritual warrior for other people, is to take the lessons in sharing. So for somebody Who hears you now the sound of your voice there going through a similar situation, don't want to get out of bed

Dont want even continue have psychologically given up the ghost for themselves. Your words would be is a state of mind. All of us will be challenge with it some time and that there is a way out, don't give up, don't give up for one. Second, it do. Then you just get back on and find somebody who says you know what I'm standing here, knowing you're not going to give up on me and to start find those people write it down in a journal every day. The good things about your life, not the bad, just the Good guys hall at keeping a grateful journal. I actually kept one for years and started back doing it again, and it makes a difference in your day because you ve go through life. Looking for the good thing

That's gonna happen, so you can remember it s what I ve learned and you could go back and read it when you really have an down moment right, you're, like wow, that's my life. I actually did that recently. I went back and looked at great for journalists. This is one life was so rushed toward the end of the opera shot. I was like just started going from one thing to the next thing: a texting and next thing. You know that thing that happens to you and I pulled out a journal from like one thousand nine hundred and ninety two and just a grateful journal, and I was reading about you know. Running through the woods with my dogs had have mangle sorbet had a flat bread pizza, usually food is weak. I just things it made me happy. As e g, there was a time we're running through the woods with my dog, taking the time to do that allowed me to feel such pleasure and such joy. Why don't I do that for myself anymore? That's why I think, keeping a grateful

Is really powerful and dealing there's one thing that you wrote down. I don't feel like doing that, making yourself to that's what I ve learned about courage. Tell me? How do we, who want to discover what shadow side is who wanted discuss, What our shadow believes, what are our shadow beliefs and keep us from moving forward? Do we need a teacher? Do you need somebody to help you do it? Is it possible to figure that out. You yourself it's harder than one would think to do as I yourself, and it's not a fix it. It's not an overnight, as you know, process and that by people you know in our society are always looking for the quick fix. You know it's not a quick fix, it's a long term transformation.

You can learn about the shadow in your mind, but it's useless. You must learn about the shadow through the integration cause. It's really the movement of from the information in your head right to the integration in your heart So I think to come to someone like me or somebody who is doing d, shadow work may not. If I could, I would take the world through the shadow process because it so cathartic. You know if you just allow yourself to scream. There are people who have never screened with this eighty year old one and she had never cursed and she had never screamed a raised her voice and we just got down on the floor with her. In a minute, took us twenty minutes to get hurt a screen. Men Kherson, you know, and she and she has her whole face changed. She look twenty really belt.

Friend, because she had all her life bottled and repressed and push that down precise town. And we never that's what the amazing thing the conscious mind doesn't allow us to seek remember these incidents that got us there that got us stock that had us turn away from ourselves and sometimes a bluff

the thinking about someone who had just wrote me a letter about what she discovered in the cellar process was, as somebody had shed like a three year old little sister who died and when they came back from the hospital nobody ever talked about it, and so it came up for her was that since then you know she couldn't love anybody considered dispute taken away and that it was sent to ever talk about it or you know, so she couldn't have an intimate relationship. Could she shut off and all she needed to do is grief. You know her little sister. She had never been able to do that. Like forty fifty says there. Just everybody fines these incidents from their past. I know that you ve done that kind of or yes, where you find them and you just willing what does that have to do it right away? learned is that everything has something to do with everything. There is nothing that lost

every single thing that ever happened to any of us contributes to the being that we are right now and it's never lost depending on, how you to choose to allow that to to to manifest with you with you push it down or with you bring it to the light. You know what determines what your course in life is going to be. I think for so many of us for so many of us, and it's always it always has reason like when you get to the other side of it. You're always like well that makes perfect sense that I would go through that Can you tell me what is the sole well to me? The soul is the part of assent, never dies, it's what we come in wealth and our soul is sometimes I don't think you can see here, but I think it's who we are at our core and dumb carries all the messages in the law since we have learned in the past

I'll, carry all the less the lessons and the messages that we will carry on to the future. How do you define God, I've define goddess and energy, a spiritual energy? It has no denomination. It has no judge Man's? It has an energy that one more connected to it. We know why were here and what we're here to do, and no for me it's my practice to connect to that energy side and to know that one was something greater and energy a force greater than myself. Have you Please consider yourself, a spiritual person was there on.

Aha moment that quick and your journey on that path of spirituality by first trauma to get through in life with my addiction. So I think it was on the bathroom floor in a treatment center. At that I really felt I felt it energetically. I felt that the world was a loved me and that there was a beautiful force out there. That was my first real spiritual moment, and then I committed to study in doing whatever I had to do to connect with that feeling.

Of course, I was an addict, so I had to go and chase it and learn everything about it and a lot of things didn't make sense to me which what were your addicted to at the time I'm at the time I was addicted to I used to smoke cocaine in my cigarettes and take opiates opiates lps did you have a spiritual experience on drugs off of drugs through I think getting off drugs. This, my real spiritual experience, I thought I was having many spiritual experience as well on drugs. Now I know that that's probably weren't spiritual expense,

Says during this whole ordeal of getting yourself through cancer was their time, were you feared dying? Yes right when, when I got out a hospital for a couple of months, I really thought that maybe I would die because there was this underneath part of me that wanted to die, because I didn't know why I should live anymore. So, and you know I was my son really count me alive great about children. I can imagine doing at not being there, so he was my strength. Each day did you fear dying or I thought that you would did you fear it? No more fear it now and I fear it because now, unlike loving my life now like, I don't want to die, I'm not going to die, so they I tell him any time. Anybody gives me any kind of negativity leg.

Even when they wanted to give you the prognosis of how long you had to live? You said: don't want to hear it, stop it don't bring that in here. That's ran, I put up my hand, and I said: are you God do you know what I'm going to die and then I Dr Xavier and I'm like, am I going to die she's like absolutely not. I called my ex husband. Am I going to die is like no, you don't have a doctor that inspires you. No matter what you have issued line, one that does does. I feel, like my doctor, helped me stay alive. Where do you think we go when we die? What happens? Hopefully, we don't take up any more space and performed, but I think our souls those somewhere up- I don't know where it actually lives and I quite down anybody should has gone up their income,

Given me an answer, what do you know for sure, but I know for sure, as we are all created with. Phenomenal force inside of us that can have us withstand like that. God never gives us more than we can handle and that everything that comes our way is coming our way so that we can grow and evolve and if we look at it like that for willing to open our hearts and see where we're shut down, where were trying to read life than we have that, opportunity to step into who we always wanted to big. Thank you. So much

when free and you ve been listening to supersede conversations the pod cast. You can follow super soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook if you haven't yet go to apple pod, callous and subscribe rate and review of this progress join me next week for another supersede conversation. Thank you for listening.