I'm over Winfrey welcome to supersede conversations the podcast. I believe that one the most valuable gives you can give yourself, is time taking time to be more fully present your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us start right now, when was the last time you wholeheartedly said yes to life. Face drift, Yours ignored that no voice inside your head and just said Yes, I'm all in! Well, that's what cha the rhymes did John D D, I'm herself is extremely shy and introverted and felt it was time for a radical shift. So the Baker, talented mastermind behind some of tvs, hottest shows like scandal grazing. Anime, and how to get away with murder, gave herself a challenge for one

oh year. She erase the word no from her vocabulary. Sean this year of yes was an epiphany that impact at her life in unexpected ways, so welcome oversell Sunday. Thank you for having ever saying. Yes, absolutely thank you for that. Yes in this year of yes and you know, whole point of the show is to open people's hearts base a little bit, get them to have different ways of thinking about things. I just wanted to share that. I knew then was going on with you, because I dont say yes to a lot of things I like being at home but at least three times this year. I said yes to things and in every one of those things you were there. We saw

each other each other, and so the first I was like shines out the second time we were to sell my party rain, and then I invite you to the legends and then- and I came here yes, I said what is going on and with complete. We knew for me. I thought over those everywhere out. Those are the only place it I've been here and you you were out and about in a way that I had not seen an hour and then I heard that you'd written the book year of yes. And that it was a conscious decision, it was. It was a real effort to decide to spend a certain amount of time to sort of saying yes to everything that scared me well yeah. Well, you know, one of the whole purposes of this platform should resolve Sunday is to get people to open up and say yes to life, and you know one of the reasons I really

Appreciate the idea of the year of yes, is that to say yes to life, you gotta start saying yes to life experiences, to things that ordinary They would scare you her intimidate you or you think would bore you absolutely so this all started. We, your sister, Dolores, tell me it did. It was thanksgiving of thousand thirteen and we're standing in my kitchen, she's chop.

He's making things for Thanksgiving Dinner and I was sort of doing that. What I always do, which is giving her this law fancy list of all the invitations I'd receive. He wanted me to speak here that invited this party and that party and finally she just sort of cut me off and she said, are you do any of these things? And I well Know- and I was very surprised that she asked me that because obviously, no and she's she's sort of shook her head and said why not- and I thought when she mean why not and I symbolise the baby to small children, I'm an eleven year old. I have two shows. I can't possibly do any of these things and she looked at me and she said you you have two sisters will have four blocks away. Your parents are forty five minutes way they come and stay in a heartbeat. You have a wonderful nanny, a fantastic friends, really cool

supported all over the place. All you do is work. You ve never have any fun, you never know anywhere. You never do anything and I thought she has no she's talking moment. I really got an attitude about it. I was out I'm leaving this kitchen and she said you never say yes to anything. He and that really stuck with me, and you have already accepted to be on the board of maybe centre, because that was a seminal moment right. Well, I don't even know if you accept being awarded the Kennedy Centre Right when the present United States asks you to serve you, Sir right, so I had to go Kennedy Centre, otters. Yes, I had just been nominated to the board of trustees and when I got there, I was informed that I was sitting in the presidential box movement. The president, the first lady and the Secretary of State, in his

nope generally, I think for other people. This would have been the most exciting thing in the world s leg. You, though I was horrified like so stressed out and so nervous about the entire thing. But nobody asked me. They said this is where you're sitting and so That is where I sat and I was really nervous, but I ended up having an amazingly fun time. It was an incredible evening and where I started out almost being so to speak by the end of the evening? I was really comfortable and having a delightful time, and when I got home from D C, I literally was crawling into bed and I had a thought which was if they had asked you, you would have said no. If they had asked you to sit with the president and first lady, you would have said no, which is so

I would have missed this experience that I wouldn't trade for anything and you'd have said no out of humility and no let somebody else and no we're just. I would have said no. Fear really and what I really realised with that. I would have said no because I felt like why would they want to sit with me what What am I going to say? What do I have to add the conversations you shoulda but there's a part of me that feels like that's those the characters and The stories that I tell our very exciting, but somehow I am not a part of that story, so over a year ago, that was ever a year ago and Oh you can say that in a year's time of saying yes a year saying, yes, you are a com, would you say you're completely to Ireland completely different person everybody I am- I mean everybody who knows me thinks I'm a completely different person, I'm I feel like a completely different person, there's a transformation that happened that I wasn't expecting whistle you

asked, along with a hundred ten pounds which was a complete my product of the entire thing. It wasn't the goal, it wasn't a thing that was part of it. One of the USA's, though, was one day I thought. Well, you can't sort of saying yes to everything and not say yes to taking care of yourself, not say yes, health, and that came from sort of having an epiphany of I work hard to succeed at every single thing. I do I work my butt off at work. I worked really hard to be a mother. I worked really hard at everything. Why do I think that losing waits posts to be easy? Why do I think that it's gonna be fun to put down the fried chicken is never going to be fine to put down the fried chicken, I'm always gonna hate losing weight. So if I can accept that, I'm always gonna hate losing weight, and either I'm gonna, do it or I'm not going to do it. So you made a decision, I mean I get Have some rules, I mean some really clear rules like ice,

Adam. I was never going to tell myself. I couldn't have something which was a new thing for me, because I have always made a bunch of like really crazy, restrictive rules. Oh carbs, it all began then last. I wish you would know, scandal the law in less like three days and nights leading an entire capers. Yes, yes, I'm some! Now I salute in it. I can have whenever I wanted, and I made a really is a role for me, which was amazing, which was, I only eat, what I crave wow, I never even thought of it before you just eat automatically, but the idea of just eating what you crave became kind of exciting because then I'd be like, I really want this kind of brownie and then I'd have it and an didn't. Have the whole thing and I'd be perfectly satisfied, verses, you'd, say you know, I'm at once on chocolate at brownie. I want something and then you need all these.

It you're so much for health bars trying not to get to one brownie rectangle, and it's no coincidence and it all happened at the same time, absolutely no coincidence. I also think in one of the things that happened during the year was, I started saying yes to telling people what I think you know their sort of it. Yes, two noble going on there and I stopped, I would say a guy, I stopped Now my feelings and she started telling people them which met. I got a lot more frank. It alot more up front with people which was really good for me as well. Will you one of those people to who never said yes to what you really wanted? But you said yes to a lot of things. You didn't yeah yeah. I was absolutely the person who did anything you asked me to that. I didn't want to do.

And then serve grumbled about an quietly to myself, which bills and a level of resentment, yes, and that I feel resentful towards people. Yes, yes, so when you left the Kennedy sinner you're flying back- and you say to you so that was I actually had fun and Maybe I need to take a look at my life. I really sat down and thought I need to start saying yes to the things that scare me I never say yes to anything. I need to start saying yes to things that I would we say no to automatically yeah and I promised myself, but I would do it for just a year thought that I wasn't going to survive. I really thought I'm gonna die of shame in shock and fear, and so I sort of threw it out there. Will I heard that you had a major a about marriage? I did I did, and that was really freeing as well de I mean I sort of discovered, I mean I I knew, but I sort of was able to finally sort of stand up and say

I dont want to get married at all and I feel like, like you said that out loud, I said that out loud ascended to everybody's and my family s added to my friends that its anybody who asked which feel obvious, and you know maybe silly or something to people who are married or people who are older. People have been through it. You're a woman in your thirty's or forties. That's a big deal. Everybody's asked you all the time. It's gonna happen when it's gonna happen. If you're dating anybody definitely asking you about it. It's a really ask you dating yes, then them this particular if you're famous person it first. You dating. We data who you're dating and then the moment your data. More than a month. When are you getting married now closer relationship there's a lot. Pressure on that is a huge amount of pressure and their desire to want to get married. It's a lot like the desire to want have children in our society like a post to want it and, if you,

I want it what's wrong with you ass, an aiming to me and I always knew I'm one of those people. Since I was five, I could tell you I was gonna. Have kids exhales can have three Aquitaine they're gonna be girls, but I have now or want to get married I'd, never played bride. I was never interested. I dont know what it is. I never wanted to get married. I love having boyfriends. I love dating. I do not want a husband in my house what it is doing doubt well, I dont know if I've ever said this publicly, but I really wanted to be wanted to be married to her. I wanted Stedman to want to marry me right the moment he asked me to marry him. I was like good now. I urged me up to give the area and we ended up not getting married because I was

posed to do a book at the same time, as is in ninety ninety three and the wedding and the book were happening around the same time and we're on our way from the book party. Instead, men said he did not want to have his wedding disturbed by all these people. Ask me about the book which I ended up not doing, and I said, ok all right, so he said we should just postpone this wedding and I said ok and that with it- and we have never discussed it again now, but what I realized is locked freedom, because could not have the life that I created for myself. I couldn't do it, I couldn't do it and all the people would say me well, you could do because you can have your baby and you can have the baby in. You can have your own nursery,

earn. You could do that and you can be married, and I knew that I could not do that. I knew that I couldn't do it. I have so much going on inside my head. In terms of writing. There is such a large space in my life taken up by that. I can't imagine it being can up by a husband and children and writing and everything getting its due cause you don't people always say: oh, you can either be a writer. You can have kids, the writer you can be married. You can be a writer, as is as there's not room for all of it. There is not I dont believe there is room for all of it. I really don't particularly it. Maybe there's some people who are doing their there may be some people are doing it and who are very happy who love it and I'm not not knocking any of you. It's not that it's just I've. Never It's never been like a dream of life to be lowered, yeah, it's just that. It's not so this year of yes got that clarified and it was really

bring the sort of say it out loud and did not feel I was like. It was a dirty little secret because you're not supposed to what not want that money. She you just liberated a lot of people, but I'd live with this for years that the pressure the tabloids every week making a story. Why you're? Not? it's my fault as his father. I wanna be married, but I never. I never wanted it and so does it mean used to date, your when today daytime you're, absolutely still dating a very open to dating and part of the year of yes, is that I feel like I'm more aware of the intentions of men, whereas before feel like. I was a little bit more shut down and someone have to say that God was kind of flirting with you and I don't want. I didn't even know now. At least I feel like I'm I'm looking and I might actually be looking so I actually my antennas are up and show. I also heard that you learned in the process to say no in a way to be able to say no, I'm not able to do that which I'm going to.

That line from you know you are really not able to do that. That is made. That is my nose, a complete sentence sentence, which is I'm sorry No, I'm not able to do that and that's all I say, and it was it's really hard to say that people is very interesting. How added a wired we are to tell somebody a thousand reasons why we can do something for them. You know use. I can't do it because of this.

Less and as if you are required to defend your nice niceness, yes, knighthood yeah yeah, I'm a good person Merlin. I want you think. I'm nice and I'm gonna, tell you: why are we all the reasons why so you got that you figure that out. That was. That was a hard one. Now I mean that one was one that I've struggled with over the course of the year to really get right because you loosen for so called friend. I lost some friends this over the course of the year. I really did I I I shed some pounds. I said some friends as I like to say, and it was it was painful, but it was also really freeing, like I've been happier over the course of the year than I ever have partially, because I found that I am not doing things that I didn't want to do. Yeah yeah, it's really amazing, I think, probably a surprise to a lot of people that you, the founder creator of the empire, Chonta LAN tee? the Idee

you see those denied creating. All of these characters had now become a part of our lives that you really were a painfully shy up until last year. Yeah. I think it would be a mean it's interesting because I feel like perhaps there was taking me for my characters: yeah and there is the beauty of getting to hide behind my character. Yeah. My characters were living a much more exciting life than I was. They were saying all the things. Perhaps I would want to say or do or having the courage that not have it at the time and the character closest to who you really are would be theirs movement of me and everybody there's a lot of Christina Yang in me. There is a lot of Bolivia Pope in me now now that I've become sort of march, more professional woman starting out, I think I was a lot more Christina Yang and now I've got a much more Olivia Pope Real yeah, good good combination, good combination, not is not

now going before so one of the first things came along to say, yes to was the invitation to speak in your alma mater. That was the very first thing that happened was, I feel, like you, throw sending out like that out into the universe and suddenly it calles opportunities. The President Dartmouth called and said we do the commencement speech no one's ever asked me to give a speech anywhere before for any reason, so this crazy that suddenly, that was what was happening and that it was Dartmouth. It was Dartmouth, it's in front of you know thousands and thousands of people. It's a twin into twenty five. Thirty minute speech. It's not you know, talk for five minutes. It was a huge deal. Yeah, I'm its graduation, those regulations to come up with some kind of wisdom, something where they talk about it. You know they put it on. The agenda you said in this meeting. I was very worrying about it, but you said yes, I said yes, which was terrifying. It was nice began. You would get it when you say terrified. I read somewhere. You said because this is the first time I've interview. You

you're, saying you couldn't you remember what happened you get that kind of terror were white. Hot terror comes over you and you can. Yes, I think I've told you that every single time you ve interviewed me, I always say like what I remember is Oprah coming towards me and then a white hot light, and then Nothing supervisor: how was it now? I know I know you didn't say anything to literally, because I would be so fearful that I feel, like my body would go into shock list. I dont know what it was, but I will do the stage fright would overtake me. There would be such a sense of panic of what's happening, remember standing there in going, there's Oprah and then literally that the last member of the entire debate

me. I hope I didn't say anything crazy. I understand that I understand it. I mean I did. I don't think I headed that bad, but that happened to me the very first time I interviewed Sidney Portiere. He had you know, he's the love of my yeah. Aspirational dream had watched him since lilies of the field, winning one the Academy award and the first time he sat down in the upper Winfrey show I swear. I remember anything other than him sitting and then the end. I remember there's a photo hugging me and after he left, I just went in the control room. Put my head down and bald because, unlike I dont know what I said I was idiot. I didn't make these didn't make it. He says yeah that feeling that you- and I have that so many times- this crazy haze of fear that it was paralyzing until they would have to push me out to do these interviews, wow and really try to.

Vince me so when you made the decision that you were going to say yes and Dartmouth called how did that work for you were you, I had a speech written and I was on the plane going there and I read the speech over and I thought there is nothing in this speech that is true or me that isn't like a platitude. Then feel like what you hear in every graduations beat you ever heard your line. It was all of the stuff believe and also it was all that stuff and it means it was designed to keep me hidden like him. We will hear the speech. You know, that's a speech speed, but you never know anything about me. You ve never feel like. Oh that's shot in there and I pity delete and I started over on the plane. I wrote

speech on the playing on the way there and it was there. You start it with your true right willingness. Tell me the truth, be yourself be who you are and there's nothing better than that honestly, and I was so much more comfortable standing up their sang, the truth. You can see it on the video. There is a moment on that video of me giving this speech where I stand up at the podium, and I look at the audience before I start speaking and I exhale, and that isolation is the moment of me, releasing any sign of fear any moment of stage fright. It is the last time when stand. In front of an audience. I have been afraid no one. I think really worked so beautifully with that speech. Is you standing up saying I feel like I'm gonna put in my pants yeah? I feel like I feel that in what you say it well, you know you're not going to knowledge. You said it it's sort of kind of released and I write it was like coming out of back I'm coming out of the person, the Saint right. Yes, it was really as yes, yes, yes,

It really did freed me, isn't an amazing how the truth does it really does, there's something about it, as I feel like we spend so much time, hiding ourselves and trying to be something that we're not yeah or trying to make sure that nobody knows that where this person and the minute you say like this is who I am its home, you'd better when that's that's if you're Chonta, rhymes or if your anybody in everyday situations, yes and went interesting for me, is it's always applied in my writing. Yes, that's what's so odd to me. Is that I've known this in my writing. My entire life. That's more truthfulness, warm the deeper you go inside yourself for your writing. The better it always is, and yet I have now. Applied to any other part of my life during your darkness address was so honest about the idea of being a which I love the truth and all that speech the idea of being a powerful women and working women and being upheld.

From other at the same time that if you doing one thing really well, that's thing is always lacking. Do you still feel that when you feel like you found a way to balance it, or is there such a thing? I think part of it is giving yourself permission to be ok with the idea that something is always lacking the it's the guilt that gets you it's it's their guilt that it's you alive,

I wrote that, because on the playing a right when it before I got in the plane, I rushed to my daughter school to watch her get her school achievements or chief kid at the end of the year and had stayed long enough to education to get took a couple of pictures of her said. I love you. She was likely to come into my party afterwards. I said I can't I got in a plane and went flying to document and I felt really awful about that. I mean I was missing something, so I was feeling that feeling of guilt in that moment, but I also felt like we should get to give ourselves permission to not feel guilty about it. It's really is part of the trade off of what we're dealing with a mean. What would the alternative I'm a miserable unhappy woman who doesn't work? I don't write for living in this. It's not fair to that would be less fair too much.

The early, because one of the things I thought was so important. Is that what we really want to bring to your daughters to your family is a happy life yeah. You want two presented to them as a woman Who can is in control of herself who knows how to make decisions That is what I think young mothers we want an ultimately that's why staying in in a bad marriage or being burdened by a relationship that is really working and you doing it for the children doesn't work for the children, because what they want is a happy mother. Yes, I'm amazed by the greening cards right now, all the greeting card or about sacrifice. Have you noticed that mother you gave up so much for me, worked so hard for me, you sacrificed so much. You were so wonderful in giving and selfless

there is the greeting card that says, mother. You taught me how to be a powerful woman. Mother, you taught me how to earn a living mother. You taught me how to speak up for myself and not back down. Those are the greeting cars that should be out there. Those are the qualities that we would want for our daughters to have. I dont want my daughter to grow up and think I should shrink. In being the background, I shouldn't be selfless. I shouldn't be sacrificing. I should be silent, that's not what I think a mother is- and I don't think that's what I want my daughter Cecile mother, be so how has the year of yes affected? The a you raise your daughters, have been more incur

Jeanne of their sort of ideas and interests, which has been so less timid, less and less timid, but also more embracing of who they are. My my daughter harbour is thirteen should very different from me in very different, like she is an extra worded tall, thin beautiful wanna be actress kind of child, and I am, if you put me in a corner of the book, the rest of my life. I'm happy we're polar opposites and I have really sort of thought. How do I embrace spent I'd hunting user? How do I embrace her personality and make her shine for who she is, and that has been really wonderful for her end. For me, as opposed to me, thinking like how do I help her fit into the box of what I think a kid is supposed to be, and so I said yes to my kids in a way that I had never done before. I decided to myself that every single time they ask

My daddy says to me all the time what a play when a play an there, so many times would have said. Why can't right now, honey. I'm doing this, I care I now I decided that every single time she said to me want to play. I would say yes well, so it doesn't matter if I'm wearing an evening, gown and heading out to the Dj Awards or I am have my bags on my shoulder and I'm heading out to work. I drop everything. I'm doing. I get out of my head the knees and we play and she's three it's ten minutes and she loves it and it changed my sense of being a mother and my sense of pride in being a mother and its changed our relationship. I think what we might, My relationship with my kids. I dont have any guilt, so there are big guesses and little yes, but that little yes turns out to be a really big ass, its turn out to be the biggest yes. So yes, as affected every area of your life, really, I absolutely thinks out. While how has it affected your writing? Oddly enough, I don't think so. I was going to say

is that like that, that is a set of great yeah two separate space, it's a very separate space for me. It doesn't exist on this plain. Did you ever imagine that when you kill Mig dreamy, it would make the news I did not. I did not not in season eleven did it ever occur to me that there would be an article in Time magazine about how to mourn a fictional character, yeah that just never even crossed my mind. I have to ask you what you do it. I did it because I honour, We spent a lot of time. Thinking story wise: how do you exit that kind of character? You can't you can't let Mig dreaming leave her like walk away. He has to main dreamy. That love has to stay alive, You know you have him believe that those two people were really love forever and in order for that to be true, how is Alsus you gonna go right, either you in the shower, when Ellen was not ready or he has to die

their love remains true, and that is really hard for us to do. It was hard for me. It was her Patrick, it is hard for Elinor was hard for us. That makes sense. Do you think that this year of saying yes has allowed you to live a more awakened. Life absolutely ended up to enter did the year? By doing this sum magazine, Photoshop crescents, I'm stand on the rooftop of a hotel in New York, with the Chrysler building and I'm posing an I'm suddenly feeling like a supermodel, and I thought if I had noted this, I would never had this experience blouse or realize I can't say no anymore, saying no really was a way of sort of stepping back from life. It was like a slow form of suicide is saying, I don't want to be a part of the world any more. So what I ve learned from this year is that every single time you say yes, your sort of stepping forward into the world

you're rejoining the world during those years when you were saying no to everything, were you love only were you sad were you. I think I was sending most of my time and most of my energy living inside my imagination, as opposed to living in the real world. You know I used to sort of joke like my body as it can, Are they carry my brain around then, and that sounds really feminist and awesome, but it's also sad because it means that the real world is happening outside is not something that I was conscious of. A part of writing is your truth, would you say, Slowly. Absolutely, although I always say that, like I'm, I mixed up for a living and yet that's my true, that's your truth. So tell me what happens you know we ve all about Ito athletes having a zone is it is for you too, I caught the hum the harm, the hum. It's like I get this home in my head, where I feel it

the great forever like he almost like a frequency, basically wow, where I don't know used its almost you're, where you go from sort of exertion to our expectation where it feels there just an endless joy for me, where I feel it. I could write for the rest of my life and I lose time and my sister s coming and say it's been five hours. We have to stop now because of this or that it's it's really lovely. It's the it's a real true happiness, very pure from well, it's a spiritual practice. Yeah. It is by dealt need to be in his place. In particular, I need a few things. I need my headphones, which, for some reason for me? Sort of signalling it's almost like a hypnosis thing. You put your headphones on. I think. Ok, now I'm in my space, so it is like a meditative state where you're in that zone, where you, because I think all artists

The rain was in here saying that are there is no different between art and prayer. Yeah does not have the art in prayer, so does it feel like that I do. I think that very tricky written communication with with higher power with something higher than yourself, because I certainly isn't just coming from me We can tell that from the very beginning. You always had it as a calling. You think everybody has a calling. I do. I really do. I think it's harder for some people to find out what they're calling is than for others, but I think that everybody has one I am, I think, is very lucky to know it. Mine is so early. So what wisdom would you say ultimately that you ve uncovered in this year of yes, then it can start small like no matter how bad it seems or how or even how great your life seems whatever is going on. If you feel like you need to make a choice, oh like no matter how bad it seems or how or even how great your life's

whatever is going on. If you feel like you, need to make a change. The yes can be a very small thing. You know it can be asked to make a phone call someone you have it. I can t wait. Awhile can be a yes to Europe spouse. Yes, we will have this conversation. It yes playing with your children, a yes to playing with her children can be yes to walking around the block. It could be yes to holding someone's hand, yes can be a very small thing and it can be life. Changing gave finishes sentence. I believe I believe we all have the power to change creativity is. Creativity is who we are, and imagination is imagination, our soul, and saying: gases and yes, transformative, love that what's the moment that.

Most impact at or changed your life, possibly nine, eleven and in a positive step way and then it's the thing that made me once again wake up and say if the world can end tomorrow there are things that I need to do and that's what drove me to sort of adopt. My first daughter, And you named Harper Lee and I'm dead, okay. So what are you believe it is the world's greatest wound. Our inability to realise that we are all the same, which is my next question where it is really rare prejudice and racism come from that That's the same thing. I really our inability to rise while the same fear is just fear, erases, MRS Fear, and how can we begin to have the conversation. Doesn't scare everybody. I know everyone is so afraid to have the conversation

I think everyone is so afraid that if they have the conversation there either calling someone a racist or their being called racist or there's gonna say the wrong thing I feel like. If you can't have the conversation you can't make, they think chain, we can never he'll yeah and and it's a conversation we all need to have because we don't have it. I don't who you are or what color you are you're, not living in an equal society, and I dont know how that can be comfortable for any of us and it keeps showing up in this year? for us, it shows up with black men being shot yeah, and if there wasn't a camera, nobody would believe It is at least a lot of people wouldn't believe in yeah yeah. I think it's heartbreaking and I dont know how you want your children to grow up in a world like this. Are you want the next generation to inherit a world where this is okay? So what is the truth? Final question: what is the truth? that you hold as your ass the way of life that that you,

embrace honour on a regular basis. When I was a kid, my Father used to say to me all the time. The limit, the only limit to your success is your own imagination, and I took that as not. Just being you know, financial success for work success. I took that as being every time to success. Love and family and emotional and everything the only limited success is your own imagination. I really do think that that is true. What ever you can imagine is possible tat. His trip, I'm so proud of you, think anything from inside him. Think so much for having thank you. Thank you. I'm ruined free and you ve been listening to supersede conversation the planned cast, you can follow supersonic on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook if you haven't yet go to apple podcast, unsubscribe rate and reviews. This podcast join me next week for another supersede conversation. Thank you for listening

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