Dr. Phil speaks with psychologist and licensed clinical social worker Dr. Deena Manion about how coddling the younger generation is at odds with the general teachings of psychology.
“Protecting college kids from what the real world is not the way to go,” says Dr. Manion. “And it starts at that young age where we're teaching them everybody's a winner.” It’s a provocative episode you won’t want to miss. More information: https://www.drphilintheblanks.com/
Interested in advertising on the show? Visit https://www.advertisecast.com/PhilintheBlanks
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
They're so paranoid that somebody in the class is going to be handed over to the Danes office after class by something they said in an approved curriculum and it's going to get traction then we ve got to take a wagon, the dog preparing an inn. The way that we need to what the trigger warning should be universally talked about in terms of what that, as it can just be student, driven, though I don't think were preparing the student for life? So what do we do about it Cahill. This is Doctor Phil and you are on fill in the blanks, but you knew that cuz you had to hit the button to get here. My guest today is very important. to this conversation may tell about her name is Doktor Dana Mannion. She is a celebrated doktor. Psychology.
and licence clinical social workers. Since ninety. Ninety three special I see in substance, abuse, depression, anxiety, personality disorders, couple counselling, family therapy and really This allowed in important areas in psychology in human functioning. She has a doctrine, clinical psychology from Raw can college a masters degree. In clinical social work from Columbia, university bachelors degree in psychology from pace university. She has a private practice in L, a in Beverly Hills were actually. Where is your practice in LOS Angeles and acquire House, but LOS Angeles, Anna Gore, Hills, gas, and also work with when recovery centres? Would is a really top drawer recovery center. I asked Doktor Mannion to be here today, because we're talking about
a social issue and a psychological issue that I think, are at odds and I haven't asker in advance what she thinks about it, but I have tremendous respect for her and because she has great vertical development in ecology and the Social Sciences. Overall, So I really want to hear what she had to think about this. So welcome doktor man here, Doktor FAO. How have you been I'm great? Thank you, nice to see you in this different venue, Otto, how about the man came here right, yeah! No, I don't ride these voting cycles anymore. Robin took the keys away and buried him in the back yard was irrational among women. Just let me do that anymore. So Look here's what I want to talk about today. I know this is gonna, be commercial- and I want to hear from all of the viewers and listeners
I'm not sure how to describe all this, I'm not sure of all the terminology. It doesn't. Really matter. What terms we use, but here's what I'm talking about there the different mentality. in the way we Are educating and preparing the Generation and I'm not sure why Are we define the end of one generation to beginning of another? I know we have millennials Jeanne Z baby boomers gen x, I don't really even get and all that. But I know that, now there is a effort mindset, certainly at the university level, in turn of how we are preparing young people today, particularly at university level in turn, of what they are,
are exposed to and what I am talking about is everything that's offensive, everything that is com very to their core value system. There protected from. A third of current undergraduates think it is acceptable. to shout down or exclude speakers. I have a different mindset than they have. They don't want them on their campus. We have students that Are turning in complaints about professors that prison different points of view. Then the students hole to be their core values after the
as a general election we had universities all over the country that had comforts sweets. They had puppies. In Sweden on live, Bees are aware they got them or what they did with them afterwards They had a puppy big they knew. Students were got now in fairness, its reported that they had the peace before the election results were an so I guess was for either side, but I'm not sure that's entirely true, but. that students were going to be upset and needed comforting, the hills goin on here doktor fell its.
it's mine, blowing and and from a therapist who is trauma informed. I, really understand that we do want. have safe spaces and our knowledge is and in life in general, but protecting college kids from what the real world is like to me is not the way to go. Audible has come, made a destination for complete. Well being that delivers inspiration, encouragement and Annabelle steps no matter what your goals are at audible, about slash well being audible. Editors have curated a range of titles, featuring experts in a week. I'd range of self care and self development categories from fostering your emotions and improving relationships to getting in shape and finding more success at work and at home listening winds up a world of opportunities for discovering insights where ever you are
Among the lessons are brand new titles from some of the most inspiring original voices in the genre, including best selling self help expert male robins, the five I get rule start here who return and with a new podcast called here's exactly what to do go to order calm, slash well being and embrace the life you deserve. After thing we ve been through the last couple of years. You're next vacation is going to be a big deal to you and your family so when you are ready use price lined book your trip with press line, you can see, up to sixty percent off your favorite hotels. I love saving money, which means I up greater room, extend a trip a few extra days or enjoy a higher quality experience when I'm out exploring and having fun. When I travel, that's what
I value the most more time to share new experiences, especially if you saved with price line so on your next trip And I'll bet you are all chomping at the bit, make sure you use price line and get to travel experience. You truly deserve lie knows that every trip is a big deal, this price line, dot com for the easiest way to get more out of it. That price dot com for the easiest way to get more out of it you said, trauma and formed a totally get there Let's talk about what constitutes trauma, what's traumatized being kids, some of this. I don't want to into a lot of detail about, because I dont want to bring back up cases there professors have confided in me, but there are situations where professors in law school
because, as you know, I spent most of my professional career in the litigation arena of Zimbabwe six years ago and then go founded. A company called courtroom sciences and we were in the trial sides. Business which met we helped with trial. Straw energy, jury, selection, witness preparation, marriage, juries, it I spent a lot of time in trial, and so I've been very active in the legal profession for oil, time. So I have a lot of contacts in the law. Schools in law firms in a bad people. Tell me that they have ask students on final, for example, they would the case that was in the media and they, say: ok, half of the class. For your final, I want you to prepare a closing argument for the defence and half of the class for the prosecution
And if it was a politically charged case, the process, Huge inside, for example,. Was so upset that that wasn't a politically popular side to take would complain that that was traumatized. it was contrary to their core beliefs and so being ass? To argue, the other side was traumatized being to them and they complain to the dean and the professor was called on the carpet. That's a specific Oh god, I don't want to go beyond the x. I don't wanna openness can of worms backup, but is it then, what advocacy is all about me when they get into the real world? Aren't they supposed
finally coming? I suppose they can refuse to represent a client, but don't you take where you find em. If you go to the public defenders, this or you go to the county prosecutor's office or you open a law office. Don't you have to be a bit of a chameleon? Well, you know the legal staff and better than me and I'll tell you that being able to argue both sides of an opinion belts, character, my fifteen year old, I picked her up from school the other day and I asked her what her favorite class was, and she goes to a very small, progressive, high school in Hollywood and she said the opinions class, and I said what what is that and she said. Well, we have to come up with an opinion about a topic, and then we have to argue both sides of it. She said I'm real
good at it and I was like, while she said, I M really like hearing other pupils perspectives on things that I wouldn't normally consider right or wrong, and people are making arguments for both sides and then we can make up our minds and I think that what's not happening in colleges right now where it's. You know if, if are exposed to violence, or you have trauma from something that happened to in childhood, not being traumatized if you're not being violated in a classroom. These urges discussions that are being brought up and I think if something is brought up that bigger something in somebody, then that needs to be dealt with, but I think work from this emotional place were allowing this emotional reactivity to happen in schools and not preparing a dog efforts to be in the real world will. Thus my concern, listen
I understand say, spaces if you're, some one that has been traumatized, eyes did you're someone that suffers from PTSD if you're, some one that has been Victim of a violent crime, you're right victim or you been mugged- were you ve had a member of your family murdered and you get into some course content. That brings all that up, that that could be aid genuine trigger. Definitely, for you, I mean that's legit then you shouldn't be on that course. you have a genuine condition or mental illness or circumstance that you should perhaps deal with before you put your self in that circumstance or environment. But
I'd from that too? be in a situation that is just contrary to your believe. It seems to me the real world is not going to make those kind of allowances for you, you're goin, to get out there where its Connell. I parents that indulge their children you're gonna, get the world where they don't think your precious, they dont think you're a prince or princes. They don't think you're gods if to the world and their getting backed you to show up on time, they're going to expect you to carry your own weight they're going to expect you to do the job they're going to expect you to perform, make your quotas. Do everything you're supposed to do and if you don't you gonna wind up at the bottom of the barrel, and it seems to me that we are setting this generation up.
turn around and sue their universities for not preparing them to be competitive in the world. You know one of the questions that twentysomethings ask me when I'm interviewing them fur jobs at my treatment centre is it is how many vacation days do I get and one or my breaks? That's it that's what they're interested in really it's come up. Run over and I'm just thinking wow. This is what were setting them up to ask. Is that unreasonable or us
Well, I should and grow up thou. I am not sure how you grew up, but I grew up with a strong work ethic and with parents that were self made, and you know learning how to deal with adverse city and deal with bullying and deal with things that happened at school or in relationships, and I learned by doing I learned by experience, saying- and I think, if we take away the experience, how are they gonna learn their just gonna be in hide old in thinking that the world over them? Something will on bothered by it? I am afraid that we are not doing what we need to do. Currently, in society to get these kids prepared. to really be competitive in life and I'm wondering how much is enough. I mean how far can go you mentioned. I haven't read the book I read or not. coddling of american mind it was.
In the Atlantic. It was why Lucan off in height, is it hate, height, yeah, that's taken from the back. Ok, it's HIV I want to give them full credit for something. I'm gonna quote here: cuz they did that research, not me while I was an excellent article report, an error that, in twelve fourteen Jenny, Suke a harbor professor, reported that A law student was asking professors now to teach ripe law, and now to use the word quote, violate. regarding the law not violate about right, but did not
violate law, because those were triggers. The word violate was a trigger, so they were saying, don't use the word violate the law. It makes no sense illicit. If I'm missing the point here, somebody tell me I can learn I can learn, but you're talkin about I'm going to cite you because you violated the law, but you can't say that anymore. I'm going to cite you because you broke the law, but you don't say violate the law. That just seems to me to be getting a little too sensitive. Laura Knips. Is that north? university wrote about sexual paranoia, Anne had of title nine complaint filed against her, I think, as long as we're allowing students to decide what the trigger warning should be, we're going to be in trouble, cuz there's going to be no end to this. It's going to be, I didn't like the way you said my name
in this article. I also read that it was. It was inappropriate, ass, some we were there born I mean how do we know? What's going to trigger, Annie, at any given time. I think if there was some of standard trigger warnings about things that are. You know really kind of universally upsetting that we could agree on that. Maybe we could agree on this, but I think allowing. cadence. To just say, I didn't like that there, for this teacher needs to be fired is a pretty scary time that were in a move to recall. I don't know how far you got, but they moved to recall the School board in San Francisco.
Because they were wanting to take the names, Washington and Lincoln off of the schools of their throughout the Bay area. Limbs are multiple schools and they said, Are we building should be doing that but be it we should. You should really be the priority. So I did a little bill lookin during the time that they were focused on that and in twenty nineteen, Joe COD. We're coming for the hill reported that there were. Seventy thousand lives lost drug overdose in twenty twenty. It was up forty five percent They study two hundred and ninety million er visits visits from April of nineteen twenty two October. Nineteen, twenty the dirt
American Medical Association, Psychiatry addition said: opiate death were up twenty nine percent and I caught a wonder: What the situation was up in the Bay area, an opium death there doubled during that time period. And it kind of made me wonder if they shouldn't have been focused, perhaps on teaching in schools about the dangers that were on the streets in the Bay area instead of what was on the school buildings in the streets, the time it does seem like prior pretty wise? I just wondered if we just gotten so focused
on a social sensitivity that we forget about saving lives. We ve forgotten about preparing students again the real world, I'm not getting into the debate of whether or not Abraham Lincoln and George Washington are the rags of society or not. You can make Your own mind about that but it just seemed to me, was that the most burning issue, when opium death had double during that same period of time that school Board had taken time too
focus on that. I wonder how many hours they spent focused on getting those names off the building if they had taken those hours and focused on putting into the curriculum something to save these kids lies. I did a podcast the other day. That said just what they have seized in terms of fictional. That's come into America in these fake pills is enough to what Laverne He'll every american walking today. How are people creating or lacing pills, aware this fitness ours is being created? Active fell, going back to thousand eight China was making a lot of synthetic drugs bad salts, Kate, to spice they were pushing, into America through the mail and everything like that. It was a lot of pressure put on that. I need government and this
switching over to faint and all I started seeing Sentinel DES around two thousand twelve. Then they realized they could send it to the mexican cartels. The next cartels could actually mix the fact that all in all the jobs like cocaine method farming and then the civil law cartel the court now at least go new generation started realising the prophet potential, because this stuff is not plant based its synthetic. It's easy to make very cheap. This is where it's been a game changer. Just to give you an illustration he's a sweetener that we all use daily for coffee and tea. If you open up this bag, it's one gram: that's five hundred Americans can buy from this powder in one gram: ok, because it's only two milligrams that could kill an adult. So if you look at the explosion on the south was border. As an example, last year, they seized Levin thousand two hundred and one pounds, outboard brave men and women in border patrol and see BP
one thing I want to emphasise that the Phil Forty percent of those pills have a potentially lethal those of petrol and you're right. If we see twenty million this so many more in this country, that's the scary part, so they will be more more deaths. Eleven thousand per that's enough to kill him any people, while the d, a ministry to said the amount of drug seized by the DE alone could kill every American in this country that's my point. Just what was seized is enough to kill every American walking today. That's that's the scope of what we're dealing with here. People hear us what we are talking about here, your children are under attack and there walking around with a computer in their pocket. That gives
access to these deadly drop. This episode is brought to you by Lincoln. With linked in becoming number one and be to be display. Advertising in the? U S, you ve got a great advantage with their tools. You can stand out and sir competitors, while nurturing customer relationships and growing your brand so scale your mark, and grow your business with linked in advertising as a thank you to their customers for helping them grow three times faster than the company Linkedin is offering a hundred dollar credit on your next campaign, just go to linked A complex marketing payer one check out Robins podcast I've got to seek with Robin Mcgraw with my good friend, Doktor Daniel Ayman position, double Certified psychiatrist twelve time. New York has best selling author and founder and see amen, clinics, listen man and find out the secret to you happier and the neuroscience secrets of feeling good based on you.
specific brain type. You don't want to miss this bitter, subscribe, follow and listen on Apple podcast, Spotify or re listening now you need some anxiety, so you do the right thing. People who are the on happy asked it's because you didn't have enough anxiety and then their filing for bankruptcy, or they had an affair they're, getting divorced and losing half their net worth and visiting their children. On the weekend I mean that those impulsive things because they had low levels of anxiety, Dr Depression, anger and vigour and would grant grant, and so I want you to worry a little back right. we just said: if you'll have Daily five, you have a fifty percent chance of getting diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease. Werner war, for the health of our brain, and I wrote a buck with China.
The brain warriors way, these fake rules that are on the street that are being sold on social media platforms are such a danger. Maybe they ought to be talking about that. That is a clear and present danger right now today, but there talking about that, but they're talking about trigger warnings in microgram. like where were you born and look I'm not in one of those affected classes, so I can't be completely empathy with that, but at Brandish University look off and hatred boarded that they were trying to do the right thing and so solely on the steps to one of the buildings.
They had put on the face of the steps, some your warnings on their but your things to bid just be conscious of this. This don't do these things and they got complaints. That even putting up the trigger warning was trigger. rather trader warnings. Draeger they put up. Aren't you supposed to be good at math and I'm color blind, and I understand the debts stereotyping. I get that I'm not. Stupid. I get that, but the president had to get it taken off and issue an apology. They attend It was good, but they said the tree your warning was a trigger. So it seems like the Trump card is to say I'm offended, So if you say I'm offended, then that's your trump card. If you say your offended, then somebody has to react or your blaming the victor.
I mean we're all offended every day by something different right so but part of what you said before I thought was interesting and I wanted to China. We have it and in terms of the fat, no peace and taking a pill to just knock out, and I think part of what we're talking about here. Is this idea that you don't have to work through anything. Loved in the article when they talked about using cognitive, behavioral therapy. the way to teach young people how to think about things differently, because when you are reacting from an emotional place or something that offends you and you just act based on that you're not actually gonna, either talk through work through or listen or understand when somebody else's sang- and you just jump to this needs to stop. And the other thing I want to say in terms of the safe space is even when people come into the treatment centre and day they
say the words I want this to be a safe place I say I can promise you that, because we can't promise that nothing's going to happen or that somebody is not going to say something, that's going to upset them or trigger them, and these are people that have been traumatized that are coming in for treatment. I mean we can't guarantee people are going to be offended by something that somebody says at some point, whether it's a teacher or somebody else. So I think the over sensitivity to this is really gotten at an all time.
Hi and kind of out of control and look, I agree and where the threshold should be. It seems to me it has gotten to be different from what the real world is going to be. Is what I'm saying I'm not saying that you don't have the right to be offended generally. Yes, I mean people have the right to be offended and there are many offensive things that people are going to encounter in their life every day and should we work to minimize, though sayings sure we I've got, my boys are grown and people can say well there, why privilege so
you don't have much to be offended about, but I have to grandchildren that are twelve in ten two more than one in one month, so they there be come up through this world. And my point is this: I would hope That they would be an environment where they wouldn't be so averse to offensive stimuli that they would be. off by it because from a psychological standpoint, there's a completely mindset right if somebody find something troubling them anxiety, produce sing in some way in psychology. Our approach is not to avoid it, but to go exact
we the opposite direction. Right slowly, expose yourself tat to do immersion therapy exposure therapy, systematic desensitization, and what we're talking about is if there's something that is anxiety they producing for you, something that creates discomfort for you, that you can't control that you learn to cope. with it, you learn to live with it in a way, that you're, not paralyzed by that you don't have anxiety reaction to it in the way they do that. I want to get into a lot of detail about this, but it's a step, wise progression where, Let's say: you're have an elevator phobia, for example, it would start out, by saying. Ok, if you have an elevator phobia, then we will, put you in the lobby
with an elevator out, but you would be as far away from the elevator she could possibly be and we would get you relaxed as you could possibly be, where you could be a completely relaxed in Bobby with an elevator to the other end would move you closer. you got it all. Anxious would back you up a little bit they will move your closer men to be got action. We back a little bit navigate till we get you all the way. in the elevator without having any anxiety, and then we have pushed the button and if you got anxious, would stop it and get you back out of it and then we back until you could actually ride the elevator without anxiety. We would systematically desensitize you to the offensive stimuli until you go ok, I can live with this
I mean you love. It then maybe get a bare moisten, whereas an elevator put me on one, but you could do it and that's part of what I think needs to happen but I'm not saying you- learn to live with prejudice judgment, other people's offensive reactions to you, but to the extent that you can't control it, we need to prepare people to cope with it. Am I wrong, I agree totally- and I think you know just just you know several years ago when had this whole like bullying, campaign, zero tolerance in schools for bullying and all of this- and you know I had a teenager who was experiencing bullying- and you know, one of the things that really set her up for success was actually learn.
how to deal with the bullying, not not necessarily having the administration, stop it, because we know that that doesn't happen, but how to actually do with it and by learning new coping skills and if she learned how to have a voice and how to deal with it and different things that she could put into place. But if we just got the boy the school she would have. Never learned any of that, and so I think There's always gonna be a bully. There's always gonna, be somebody says something offensive. You know that elevator could have stopped mid trip when we're trying
That person not be afraid of elevators like there, you know we can control the stuff. We have to learn how to deal with these things as they come up and how you cope, and I think we're not teaching our youth how to cope with anxiety with depression. I mean one of my kids. The other day said: will all my friends or depressed all of them and I was like what is depression mean and she couldn't describe what that meant. So it's just a word that they're all using I'm gonna kill myself, I'm suicidal you know these are. These are things that kids are saying now that it's like, we're desensitize to it, because everyone sang it. So I think you know we have to figure out a way to help teach our kids, how to cope with diversity and pray,
it is I'm and bullying and offensive language and an all of that to make them are well rounded strong person uses it moves really important about. You could get a boy of school, but and take the bullies place and then, when they get out of school and they get in the workplace, boost to say the boss, it's gonna be a bully, and then you can replace the boss of always said- and I said this- I guess you're the day, if I had to applicants in front of me that I was considering for the same job and they were matched in every way, age intelligence. Since the experience and everywhere, except one of them had a college degree in the other when didn't even if the college degree was in
a totally irrelevant field. I would probably be somewhat favourable towards the college graduate for this region. Until now, what I would know about the college graduate based on my own experience is, I would know that number one. They could set a long term goal. They could meet deadlines, they could work as part of group and they could get along with authority figures. They did not like big.
Because it's their job to get along with the professor, not to professors job to get along with them, and I dont know that about this candidate over here. I do know it about this when over here, because, based on my experience, certainly in graduate school I walked around the last year, was my resignation letter on my clipboard slow. I know that there is. a lot of pressure, and I know that they had to do those four or five things. Maybe this persons had to do that. But maybe not this. I know this about this person. Now I don't know That about college graduates anymore, because I know if they would accordingly, The coddling of the american mine. They boarded twenty fifteen school year that all ten of the university account for
schools. They had a list of trigger stay was to avoid, and one was. You can no longer say America is the land of opportunity. So I'm sorry you can no longer say I believe the most qualified person should get the job. What can we say? I'm serious, let me we can no longer advocate for a meritocracy. So What do I know about someone that's been through the college experience? I I don't it's gonna trophy for everything they have done. I know a lot of comedians that won't go on the college campuses anymore. Chris Rock won't go to sign, found Kirk Fox. Is it good for
the mine, really good Committee IRAN, why good commedia decision they can't take a joke is just not worth it take it. Take it out, Dave Chapelle, they cannot take a joke and I don't think it's just college students. I think we're in a council culture in general, and so these are the kids that are now coming up. Steve Arby's is not doing comedy anymore. Really rare disease not only stand up any more. I left. If there is one best friends I didn't know of areas where my best friends
you should have not doing them inside I mean we. We have to laugh at ourselves, any part of you know being in therapy, and you know, having my private clients, I mean one of the things that we do is laugh about our character, defects. You know we have to kind of be able to laugh at ourselves and you know, and live life lightly, administers the seams. Also, Syria sets like where's the levity, whereas the humor wheres, you know being able to experience that comedy and laugh and not. You know, council everyone. I worry about the council culture because it seems to me, has gone to the point that you punish anyone that violates one of this moving bar even accidentally,
yeah it when I say accidentally, sometimes the vocabulary changes sometimes how to refer to a certain population changes and what was acceptable at one time. What was maybe in the DSM at one time. Is no longer considered, maybe it never was, but to the general population or the clinical population. It was if you slipper, or get you're verbs wrong or whatever then you ve dehumanize someone. It's not digital I mean it might be, but Like there's more interest in. Catching some one stepping on the line instead of what their intent really was, what they
we met somebody. Miss speaks or accidentally says, submits like gotcha. That actually happens in my chamber centre. Ina clients come from all over the country too, strand and you know, there's a certain standard the LOS Angeles area, which very progressive- and you know, people might come from other parts of the states and have no idea about pronouns and how to refer to people in any of that- and we actually try to do some cultural sensitivities, training with people coming from elsewhere, because we're afraid That they're going to get cancelled in our treatment centre and you know ousted from getting treatment because they're saying the wrong thing: if they're coming from a place where they literally have never heard this before soviets it some, I think it's about education and its also about personal preference. Like you know, not, everybody is going to want to be
here too. In the same way, not everybody can it be offended by the same thing and how're. We really supposed to know unless somebody tells you personally indirectly, and if your hammer everything looks like a nail, and so if you ve got this one issue It's like boy, you're on point four. Every word every thing and I think we this needs to be more forgiving, the thing about being a social justice warrior and there's a professor at North Korea, learn a state, and I dont know how pronounces last name. I think it's no cost its I see o S, read several of his articles, its Rupert no cost at North Carolina State University. He says if you're gonna be a social justice, warrior then
You need to be focused on bringing communities together and it's not about attacking, Some one that shouldn't be a badge of honor. That shouldn't be the thing where you're the social justice warriors. So your nailing somebody, that's not the idea, it's about building coalitions and bring in communities together and haven't read anything by him. I really suggests that you do. This whole idea, I think, of this kind of got. You can't culture that has gotten way out of hand, however, well intended it may have started. I think gotten way out of hand and others think that.
We need to have a more forgiving spirit about each other and, if I think about it from psychological standpoint, I think about its actually pay. The logical thinking that's going on in the universities because were telling people to avoid those things that are intimidating to them as a whole, those two learning to occur. a date to overcome cope with deal with find some way to master those things, so they don't give
Their power way were also telling them to impulsively act on their emotions. Not think through things not be thoughtful about things, but just react to your emotions and we can't walk through life. Doing that I mean that's not the way life works. We have to think through our emotional state and be able to respond appropriately in society, and I think we're teaching them that they don't need to do that. Everybody could be Did- and I dont want people to hear me or us saying that any time someone is offended that it's a paper tiger, because that's not true there, gentlemen situations where people have experienced legitimate trauma to do something that calls that trauma to the forefront and creates a
legitimate mental emotional physiological reaction is very unfair, knit and something that should be avoided at all costs. If you no that it's coming, You can tell somebody about it, then great, then they can avoid that. there, something in a course description that Let somebody know hey we're gonna cover a book in here that deals with ray, bore, molestation or home invasion or something that hit really close to home, then by all means, opt out give the person the opportunity to say I want to avoid that and if someone is in a situation where they have been, traumatized either
legitimate way and we can provide the healing nurturing safe environment for them. We should do that any educational environment, but there has to be some kind of threshold if you're so hyper, sensitive, so fragile, that virtually anything a professor says They're so paranoid that somebody in the class is going to be headed
over to the Danes office after class by something they said in an approved curriculum and it's going to get traction. Then we ve got the tale wagon, the dog and I dont think were preparing the student for life. So what do we do about it? What's the solution? Well, I think it's important change, like he said, be sensitive to students who are struggling with certain things that could be trigger you now triggering too. That I mean that's why we have counselling seiners. That's why we have people that
didn't I can talk to if their struggling with certain issues, but I think preparing them in the way that we need to with the trigger warning should be something like I said earlier. That's universally universally talked about in terms of what that is, it cannot just be student driven. I think there should be more guidelines put in place as to what that looks like just like parental guidance warnings on tv shows, and things like that. I think if we just let this kind have student driven, we're gonna be in trouble. I think so. It seems to me that universities were designed. To bring together. for an ideologies, and if you look at this socratic method, You had to examine your own undocumented beliefs. Ok, less challenges. These. Let me hear the other side.
I was born and raised in the Baptist church. I didn't stay in a Babby church, my life but I was more eurasian a Baptist church. I recall one time I was reading a book about Satan. And a red alot. When I was young past or saw me reading the book about Satan and, oh, my god, they called my parents. They visited the home that night, they wandered know what was going on and as well. You know you you're talking about it all time as it is, is the enemy study, the enemy of his an athlete. I study the opponent all the time. This is the only I wanted now you shouldn't do that. You shouldn't do that. You shouldn't step. Why not you talk about
hell, Satan sneak up on, you know, sneak up on me, I'm gonna know discomfiture launch might every minute. I was stunned that this passion, did not want me. Reading about Satan really was like. It was a pro Satan book. It was a negative Satan. It was about here's the tricks and traps in all that kind of stuff, and so the doktor felt personality is not
aged over time. Paraguay MA to my parents, credit. This wealth works for stop it, but if you're not sent redwood wars red and at least it's not a comic book but see you just mentioned something that so critical, which is the frontal influence in addition to the school right, so that is so important, and so, if we're going to teach our kids that to do this in this way, it's gotta start with the parents. I think- and it starts at that young age, where were teaching them everybody's a winner. You got a trophy for everything, If you're offended all call those school and get that teacher fired, I mean that's what we're dealing with now as opposed to hey. You need to learn how to deal with this. It seems to me the first step that I would have advocated in some of these situations is
If the student came in and said, I found this to be offensive then make your case and clearly of its blade bigotry if there's some, it doesn't have to be right whatever it might be, then look at it if its a pattern of behaviour, then you deal with it. If it's not when you try to have the to resolve their differences, as issuer intention figure it out fully. The two can resolve the situation that's part of the maturity of the students? Have an indifference now understand: there's a dead prince in power between the student and either making an anonymous completely dont want to face the teacher in fear their great or whatever. I am. Stay on that, but to the extent that the student
and resolve these things themselves. They need to do that. They need to own that it the situation where there's a power imbalance I get it, but they aid to be held accountable for. What's the real issue, you discount put something in the complaint box and walk away. You ve got to stand for the complaint, you gotta give a rationale for it and there's gotta be more to it than just. I was offended. Bob Student and you may or may not get your way as a result, I mean it might not. Your way and then you have to deal with that. Those who have said it is a legitimate thing. Then certainly accommodations can be made, but we To prepare these students for the real world psychology, they need to be tough enough to learn to cope with
and accommodate. Two things in life that they're not going to like they're, not going to like everything everybody's not going to get a trophy that's not going make everybody happy but not happy anywhere, but here are not happy anyway. is there a point that you believe We should start teaching these kids how to cope with anxiety, depression, stress cyber bullying. These
issues as part of the curriculum in school, it definitely I mean, I think, in a cognitive behavioral therapy, even though I practice from an eclectic. In our point of view, I believe that cognitive behavioral therapy is the most researched therapy. It's probably the easiest to understand and to put into practice cause it's very in a systematic in terms of how it works, but to change your thinking about something and now just act on your feeling, but to actually check it, make sure that it's not distorted in some way here. What some other you now stability is, are and start you really look at is this just
and my the way that I feel is this something that you know like you said is something that needs to be pursued and dealt with, and I think that we just need to teach our children how to gain skills to cope with adversity, prejudice, pragmatism, bullying, you know all of these things being offended and that it doesn't make it right, but teaches them how to cope with that, whether that's making the complaint or whether that dealing with it onto themselves or whether its addressing at or whatever it is, I think, to give them some skills other than just call somebody out on social media and try to get them cancelled. Will I had the opportunity to testify before a bipartisan committee of Car, ferris honorary authorization of the elementary and secondary Education act, and it was
dealing with or how to deal with cyber bullying? One of the things that I heard the administration say is that this is not our job. Our job is to educate these kids at school because Cyber bullying is taking place off campus, not on camp, so there not our job, that's the job of the parent. I said you need to make it your job, because you have access to these kids- forty percent of their waking hours mode, to these relationships are formed at school? there was a time when you could leave school and leave Are we behind the boy
took place on the bus docket it took place behind the jam it took place in the cafeteria when stood went home. They were safe. Now, the cyber boy can follow them home and apparently Sir back there in their bedroom doing their homework when, in fact, there are some chat group or whatever From school, with, people saying we hate you, your ugly, kill yourself and too often it has happened, that they go back there and find their child boy or girl, seventh and eighth, aid hanging themselves. In a closet, dead, I've had many of the story I've had to do on the show where there's out themselves were hung themselves and I'll. Never forget one mother, not fifty feet from here. Her son shot himself in the face. It started where the name calling Brandon Ajuste three fit
seven Magnum, when I saw you boys the width, through my mind, is here suddenly out inside now by kid, Well time, the inside So all these were all kids from school. Saying. terrible things to him on the internet, and I thank again the schools Can help so much if we can teach kids the early warning signs, of anxiety. Depression stress learned, helplessness, interpersonal violence, these kids and seventh and eighth grade and get these relationships and think
I gotta love so much because he's call me fifty times now resist they don't realize. This early warning signs of abuse. Here you re, despotic and recognize it and how to deal with a bully to defuse the Boeing situation by stander responsibilities, winner, bullying, Situations how to cope with these things, and it's not good. to happen in the schools. Until you put the money behind it. So it becomes part of the Greek and we got a set aside. Twenty minutes a day, thirty men, Today, three days awake or something like that to teach them the basic tenets of recognising these red flags and what to do about it when they see it and cognitive, behavioral therapy
to me seems like a very understandable intervention, short term intervention strategy that will work with kids virtually the age. I agree. I also think that you know what you just talked about some porn because it it also identifies you know if you, if you have it out there in the schools that identifies for teachers and administrators, what the problems are right, because so much of this is in secret and without there now, large and so kids want to event, they want to talk about things, and I know when I was a social worker in school in a school setting public school. I would have you know a lot of kids come in my office and have lunch with me and we would just sit and chat and I would find out a lot
and that our lunch period about what was going on and then but I was only one person and I was a social worker at the time and a minority in the school, and you know they don't want to hear of the problems you know they'd. They don't really want to hear it. So I think if, if universally, we did this in schools- and it was just part of the curriculum that would be amazing- you, like a noose, teach kids do some of them. basic tenets of cognitive behaviour therapy had a re frame therein. Earl dialogue. Don't assume you can read the minds of the person it you're dealing with don't assume that you can predict the future dont catastrophes, don't label dont discount positives about yourself, learn to accept! Compliments from other people.
stop negative filtering all of these things and teach him the four criteria, for a rational thought, so they can test their thinking if they don't have the wherewithal how to go talk to somebody all did all the different things can make a huge difference. And we don't know when our thoughts are distorted, I do not know how to test and get back. I get em if nothing else, to stop playing the what, if game and realise with live in a moment and get through there are so many important things they can teach them. I think if we
He would start doing some of these things. Instead, a coddling these kids. I think we would have a much better chance of preparing them for life and am succeeding, but that's not gonna happen unless she put money and time behind it and they did some of that in the last three authorization after we had the hearings, but that was at elementary and sex. Jerry level will see how much difference it makes, but now things the pendulum thing still swung the other way. So well I'll conclude this conversation. By saying, I think I speak for Dana Mannion, as well as myself, we are not here to discount anybody's experience, In any way, in anything, our legitimate traumas no question about it. We are not saying that there are trigger,
that people can walk right into and have a genuine bad response. We're just saying that triggers gotten to be a hair trigger and real trauma being lost in hyper sensitivity with so many things that are by labelled as dramatic that really dont qualify as trauma, and if everybody can complain about the thing that makes them even moderately uncomfortable. Rather than learning, to deal with that discomfort, so they can take it in stride
they're gonna have a rough ride when they get out of college in college should prepare people to deal with the real world. Now, that's my closing statement about it. I'll. Let you make yours, I agree with everything he sad and am. I just appreciate the opportunity to have conversations. I ask us, I think they're so important. Well, I'm gonna make people think and if you're one of those people that has complained about things and pass, maybe you had some legitimate. Maybe you didn't maybe you'll be offended by this. Maybe you If you are that's, ok, you can be offended and I'm here to learn. Doktor man. to learn. If there's something we're missing, tell us and will discuss it in a future. Conversation about it. Maybe we'll have you come on and discuss it with us
We don't have all the answers to everything, but we certainly have all the questions so happy to hear from you. Let us know what you think: We're trying to do is get people is configured as possible to have the best life you can possibly have. This is doctor fill with data Mannion on fill in the blanks check you later
Transcript generated on 2022-03-15.