Dr. Phil speaks with First Amendment attorneys Nancy Wells Hamilton and Charles L. “Chip” Babcock about science, censorship and the pandemic. See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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I've tried to say. Yes, we need to spend more of our time now not talking about just the pay,
endemic of course.
The virus and nineteen. But
also: this epidemic of despair. They were just very thoughtful,
people who got a point of view and thereafter expressing it and that it should help me. Then the only for the bad side of it, but there's a good sized, loving people take more response
isn't that a viable topic to be discussed.
Please, don't you feel when you found a way to fill and obliged again. This is a very different cylinder blanks, probably different than anyone,
I've done since I started to do this because I usually I'm bringing information thoughts.
Opinions, but I'm actually showing up tonight with a lot of
Questions are some things that are bothering me greatly and if they don't bother you they should this affair.
Each and every one of you that listening and the loved ones that you have on two different levels? And I want to get too what I'm talking about in a minute, but the brief version of that is
why are we not having an open dialogue about the science involved in this pandemic right now? Why is this being shut down there?
bothering me a lot. Secondly,
Do we all need to be doing now, as we are coming to a point where, obviously things are changing
starting to open back up. I have to
ass tonight that in full
very, very dear friends of mine. There is close to family as you can get. This is I husband, wife attorney pair. They are for
amendment lawyers extraordinaire, that's not all they do, but in my opinion it is what they do best. I'm talking about
Nancy Wells Hamilton. She did her undergraduate work at Skidmore College. She got her law degree from the university, a Houston law centre if anyone
as it now is quite an accomplishment. Her husband
Charles L Chip Babcock, he is
Turkey is well? He did his undergraduate work at Brown University. He went to Boston, universally law school.
These two have been practicing together and married for a long long time was just put it that way. I don't wanna embarrassing to one of them so guys,
he very much for jointly deny I've got important thanks to talk about your in quarantine. Right now understand you're in Florida,
We are in that were Naples Florida where we have a second home and we ve been work.
From home pretty much all day, long at dinner in and watch tv for labelling I go to bed and get up
Grandma day the next day
you ve been workin lot. I know that you're busy and I know that it's late at night but, as I said I have this really been concerned about this, but before we get into that, how is
trading you, how are you gonna, do it in quarantine? I know you have a beautiful place down there and you fortunately got caught in Florida win.
Thing got shut down. How lucky was that
We are fortunate to say the least
We really have nothing to complain about. We ve been knocked. It's been great, we're losing
working on the road and beating out, so it really frankly hasn't interrupted business practice all that much
the estimates are that thirty seven percent of people can work from home out of all the workforce in United States thirty.
Percent can work from home.
The remaining majority has to actually be on side. They have to be on the assembly line or in
store or in the service position to help others. Fortunately,
The three of us are among the thirty seven percent that can work from home, but
so many others either cannot work at all because
the economy has been shut down, or they are essential workers and I'm
but he's talking about doctor,
M nurses and paramedics and M tease. I'm talking about the
works in the stores, those that are stocking, the shelves, those that are cleaning
all of these people
necessarily think about that as being essential, but if it wasn't for these data,
it had men and women that are doing these jobs. We would be in a lot of trouble right
yeah, the guided that fixed by car today I felt was pretty the central
though he had a lot of people, and I know that both we're lucky
there is no big deal Brad
lower our guard legal assistance to US
work from home. They had to get used to it and had to move in their computers and get that set up. But but we didn't answer- and I didn't miss a beat-
Well, you guys know we ve been working together since I believe it was January of nineteen. Ninety at sea S, I think the first case was the gene:
F, K, assassination and of course, TAT was all
twenty seven seven years after the assassination, but a book had
Written in the AMA had been sued for science and ugly things about the authors, and we were defending the American Medical Association and
I remember we were working and had the Zapruder tape or ban the Warren Commission File and all sorts of things getting ready to take that
the trial, so it's been a long long time and for people who don't know chip in
Nancy and I were intimate.
They involved in the upper Winfrey mad cow case in Amarillo taxes, that's been
gosh how many years now that's been twenty years.
Work out. A year's ninety ninety eight,
yeah. It's amazing that it's been so long.
To say that the three of us have been working, the other unknowing each other for a long time. I've seen both of them in the trenches I've, seen them in the court rooms and have incredible respect for both of them and their defence of people.
Right to have a voice in America and that's why?
question. To start with. I am really really troubled by the fact
that we seem to be having some absolute
Thirdly, puzzling censorship.
I dont understand people are pudding,
up on Facebook, twitter is,
All different kinds of social platforms, and then
Fuller coming in and taking them down now
because they're obscene, not because their inciting people to violence, but just because
They have decided that it's not the key
and of information that should be put out, their chip, name
what the hell is going on. With that
where is it
where, where it up were kind of a sad placed the the pandemic
we should be focusing on really
society is the medical science
in the mental health science, that you contribute so much too
but also the economic science. Economic issues with science
and it seems to me, like I'm so many other issues.
Divided into two camps, and neither can word is interested in listening.
To each other very much- that's an overstatement, of course, but it has become. Unfortunately, political party-
problem is were close to an election, and so every
as political parties. It is because the
A person in the White House votes
our reaction by people, their favorite
and people that are against him.
Spilled over into our public dialogue and
around a lifetime and doing it's gonna work
and I've never seen it worse, I've never seen it where
we are not listening to each other,
as you say, we're not even talking to each other. I dont think people want to hear each other frankly
If it's an opposing view, they don't want to hear it. That's that's really shape it. Doesn't
We have to bear in opposing view anxious. He said having a discussion about the facts in the science and I think so many people these days felt that their fires is the right science, but there's only one science and that's not true
What a great dilemma will your jointly right, both of you in the thing that worries me is and by the way, I've consent.
Currently said during the corona virus pandemic.
That we should all listen to and follow the advice of medical professionals not
politicians necessarily but the medical professionals and
the thing I've said about the pandemic has been in support of those experts
I've had like fifteen sixteen seventeen of them on
a dozen shows that I've done about this matter,
it was after them then, and it
after them now we owe them a debt of gratitude. Look, they were dealing
where the paucity of data and, frankly, a lot
was flawed. The model,
were wrong. The information was wrong. You know why, because
all. They knew at the time. I'm not here to criticise them. I still
support them. They did you
service for all of us under very difficult circumstances. We ve known about this novel corona virus Sars to four
three months, maybe since January so baby for five months. I've said from
out said that we should all follow the mandates put in place by our public officials. They have had to make difficult decisions with.
Limited and sometimes flawed, data
and we are each of them Democratic Europe
begins alike, gratitude for stepping up and making their best effort to
provide leadership now to those who try
the politicized, this situation, those who have exploded it with
Angela ads and not the politicians, but these scammers it go out and say I've got a key.
Africa Rona Virus and that sort of thing
for people who have tried to exploit this shame on them out.
Voters want reward bad behaviour for
the politicians who have tried to politicize this, and I hope the law catches up with the scammers
No, she look kindly on no sort of people, but to Later-
of all stripe. I say thank you for what you ve tried to do, but s
we ve learned more shouldn't. We be encouraging
open dialogue and debate about this
yeah. I had absolutely no with the one thing that it's not anew
situation, science of art and science.
Think of it. I has evolved, sometimes by which, by day,
is it is alarming,
elsewhere, the heir to the obligation method. I tried with with your
open and frankly we wouldn't want it without you.
She did a show on mad cow disease because of a star
the development and announcement butter world
organization, the the british medical establishment in nineteen. Eighty six.
By ninety, ninety eight sire said radically Jane.
And so what what maiden
true or not true, or at least debatable in nineteen? Ninety six was no longer open to debate in nineteen. Ninety eight, when we tried it takes it's just science.
March, his iron
and we have now- they celebrated the site, if it the inquiry, with the urgency that this ban, that it has brought to us
and they discoveries that were making a profit
they were making other sites outside is startling.
Hopefully that accelerated scientific inquiries got it result in something that that jurisdiction,
problem and hopefully that by the time we finally cured.
We will have a economic systems,
is viable, and if we don't pay
to that we may be finding a cure. The term is not treated all the diseases that we have both both medical and economics.
Say that again, everyone through that
dammit through the shelter and place in isolation, though we too often
it had separated people for really having discussions with one another and being granted people get together and then have to cocktail ours that you generally are doing that with. Like minded people,
and so that that sort of cuts down the avenues to two worrying from others
and then, when I lost my track,
What no you did not think you made your point quite well, and that is that sometimes, when people
it together. Maybe in a more relaxed environment is not so restrain them
Maybe some dialogue flows from that, but
I saw something recently: there's a medical professor at Stanford University is name.
Is Doctor J, but each area
to buy. The charter is a pure scientist. I don't think
He would know a Democrat from a Republican if they had a fly.
Waving over their head at work? Could care less from everything I
here from listening to him. But these
then doing studies he did a study in Santa Clara California. He did a study, a variant.
Anyway, I thought with Major League baseball and he said well here,
like twenty seven cities. I get to cooperate so low.
Skilled all the major league, baseball offices and figure out what the incidents is with this certainly different group but rapid
twenty seven cities. And let's see if we can find out what the answer
that is of,
this disease. Is it really as widespread?
add, as we ve been telling people, or is it not? We knew
what we knew when we knew it, but we have testing now, let's see if we can find out more, he public.
Just findings, and the findings were basically that it was not nearly
as lethal deadly as
Had originally been thought and that it was much more widespread in terms
of the infection numbers people that it had it.
Denominator in the front,
Should then what people had assumed an
I'm tellin you? He was ripped like you, wouldn't believe
on social media platforms. How dare you say this? How did how dare you
Port scientific findings is like it. What are you boy,
I happen to me I'll just it does it matter, if you sell shrimp out of a van down by the river, if you
That is what it is. It is what it is right. I don't get that what's the point:
what am I missing? Well, I think
I don't think you're missing anything personally, because the problem is people were terrified to start,
and rightly so, and that sad of dynamic in a panic frankly within the community
I think, as time has gone on, obviously
There is more and more data and finding out that, maybe, as offers, this diseases for certain people were not for the majority of cut to the chase. The me
Europe is not female, arrested and publishing any of the Good NEWS is
Eating off of the rightly again that sort of terror,
the bad, the bad news. Ah, I there its head what help people glued to their television sets flew to the social media, and
Ah so there's no. There is no room for the other voice because it contrary to the herdsman House,
my attitude Nancy is, I don't have a problem: doktor Fouche, you gotta
things early on about how many,
four times contagious. This was then the flu
Now it turns out he probably oh
estimated that, but-
sure. As hell don't know, I'm not an epidemiologist, I'm not an infectious disease expert, I'm not
like micro biologist, but I am in reviewing a lot of them
They all agreed with him when he was saying this initially, but now
as more information is coming to light. There saying will that doesn't seem to be the case
it terribly deadly for a significant portion of the population. No question of
It certainly is. However, it doesn't seem to be as deadly
for all parts of the population and
this lethal, as it was originally thought to be that
mean, doktor bout. You did anything wrong, it's evolving as he is getting.
Or information. You would think
they information would want to be reported, but it's like
we're not looking at the sides, for example,.
If you go the World Health Organization on so
distancing. They say this
separated by one meter.
They have no scientific evidence for that
And so we have adopted six feet, that's not the
recommendation of the World Health organization. Did we just make that up
is there any sites to support that. I don't understand. Why p
get upset. If you start asking questions about those things well, Middle EAST you made
a minute ago about now,
already, I got ripped on social media and
it's too bad if anybody gets ripped. But you know that's that part of dialogue to and
one of the one of the geniuses and curses up.
Social, media and the internet, there is a lot of chatter. There's a lot of talk. You know sometimes the scientists who go to support
your worldview you're gonna criticized, but that's ok. In fact,
you? Don't? Maybe he would see one post and say
I hadn't thought of that,
and react to it in a positive way and and adjust his music worry. Accordingly,
I'm kind of, as you know, a kind of a person than the poorest, and I think more speeches better. I think of where we get in trouble is when the government tells us, we can't say somethin. You know that that that
score of the first amendment, you can't allow governments to suppress our speech and in our country. Fortunately,
that doesn't happen all that much
So then you move to day. You know they search engines,
like Google, Facebook and others
the government, but Bob
a powerful and when they pose
down. I know you'd better thought you can communicate. That's probably it's nothing.
From a legal first amendment standpoint. It's just traveling in terms of the public dialogue.
Well that's what concerns me is because it tempts down public dialogue.
And you know,
at my share of criticism over the years,
you know, I do practise what we preach. I've said
people criticising me our fight for their
To be wrong, it's ok
if they want to make ass a knight slavers. That's why I'm not
and skin so dont worry about that model
He used to say you better spent five percent a year time decide and whether you got a good deal or a bad deal and ninety
five percent of your time decided what you're gonna do about it and right now
looking back at what politicians
scientists have got it wrong, because I
in the main. Certainly the scientists have all been
very earnest in
what they said. Even if now you go back and play back some of the things that
you said they go home. I gotta get believe us it that's what you knew
the time thank you for taking
position and doing the best it you could, but what I've tried to say as we
It has been more of our time now, not talking about Joe
the pandemic of career
the virus uncovered nineteen, but also this epidemic of despair,
because right now we're
counting lives with a quicker that are being it,
repeated to covet nineteen? But it's like where
playing very little or any attention at all to what is
happening because of the quarantine
what's going to happen when people get out of quarantine and go back and find that the entire economy has
changed and part of the change.
Is that their mom and pop business that they spent thirty years forty years fifty years establishing has gone.
Lay in three months
ever to be recovered again, and I cannot tell you Nancy Chip
messages that I've gotten from people that talk about
max essential crisis. They are absolutely lost. What are
are you going to do. We came
and this we had a business. It was a narrow margin, but we were getting by. We were feeding ourselves. We were contributing members of society. Now they shut the entire world economy down
and we ve lost everything. What are we gonna? Do we get back out there that creates death by despair,
creates an erosion of health and well being, and it's like nobody wants to talk about that, because it sounds like we're criticising the decisions that have been made and the fact that we went in the current in I'm not criticise
I think the fact that we want in quarantine, followed every guideline. I've tried to set a good example,
I've got on the air. Every day until people,
stay at home, I'm doing social, distancing, I'm wash my hands, I'm living in quarantine. Do
you're being taught by the CDC and the others,
Otis, let's do our part and and
This thing turned around but of all
I've been saying all along. There is a price that is being exacted
by the shut down by the court it and we have to be prepared to deal with it. Isn't that a viable topic to be discussed at salute way- and you know I said this thing- started with no shelter and fight for two weeks and then some places it now. I think you're busy about the actual signals that did it to another three months, but I think some of the Good NEWS is coming out of this and they get it lies with the speech aspect. Is you are seen as citizens protesters, processing or trying to open up shops within guidelines trying to basically take their responsibility and say? Listen. We can be responsible for ourselves, given
The guidelines we will go out and we don't need to be holed up in shelter and quarantine indefinitely, because that is killing the american economy and these families, and I think that the protests there's a lot. A lot of people are complaining about again you only four to the bad side of it, but there's a good sized where many people are taking responsibility and stepping up. I wanna take care of themselves.
And their families, and there is one thing we are very create even inventing people and I think it's the Spirit of the american people that has flattened the curve. Look
if anybody thinks that if we go in a quarantine for three months and keep our heads down that this virus is just
say: oh well, I guess I'll die out. That's not true! When we go back out there every
they may all infectious disease expert that I've talked to have said that virus was there when we went in quarantine, it's gonna
be there, when we get back from quarantine,
The question is: can we spread out there?
action right to the point that it doesn't overwhelm our medical facilities to the point that people die from neglect or an enemy.
Ready to provide them the necessary treatment that they need. If people think that going
the quarantine like. Ok, we stayed long enough, so it's all died out, not true that
never the go. The go behaviorally psychologically sociologically was too slow the role, so
I gonna get it's just get it anymore, spread out fashion. I won't wait. Wait. We said that, but
Along with my ask you, you can see from my resume then you're Nancy's fourteen, so she sat in the high risk.
Category by age, but the book,
for an interim crap you- and I are so so when the core themes over when we open up when what we, what everybody gets to make a personal decision about what they do with what we do. You know something
were very healthy. You play tennis every day at play most every day and I do not feel very healthy, feel good, so what'll we do what what personal decisions
We make about this. Well, I think we have to base it on the science right chip a mean
You and I are knock on, would very healthy, but you know what
I fear is that some of these decisions have been made for people already, and let me tell you what I'm talking about. I spent five.
A half hours today and it was the first time I have been in a public building since March nineteenth and
went to my car.
away and because I just
at an echo Cartier grams in these nuclear tests, really look at all your arteries and veins and that an IRA and
So these over in the Cedars Sinai complex- and I was talk
to the lot of the people.
We're over there and
They're telling me to things number one,
because of the decision that was made where hospitals, basic
be converted to covet nineteen treatment centres.
The demand never came.
It came in New York, it came in the Bronx, it came in different areas, but
for most of the country,
three hours were left empty beds were left empty because
people did not get elective surgery that was mandated away, but then people
To go to the hospital because of what they were told about this virus, and we all know that early
direction. An early intervention are the most power,
or tools in the treatment of disease in the
management of disease now
I said, I'm not an infectious disease expert, but I do
of training and behavioral medicine, that is, medical psychology and
I know how important it is.
People to not be in denial, not procrastinate, not put things
How many lives have been lost because
somebody didn't get a call. It ask happy,
Because somebody didn't do what I did today and get my heart checked
I arteries checked him
need lives, have been lost or will be lost because by the time they get around to being check, they go well. If you d come in
four months ago, we might could have helped you
with this colon cancer, but now it's too late, but you didn't come in
for much go because you were afraid because the world was shut down.
And these hospitals are going bust,
even Mayo Clinic is
report a loss of nine hundred million dollars because
of loss treatment in surgeries at this point, so I think for
Necessarily you and I were for a lot of people.
Knowing it that dime
because, because they passed a threshold of treatment, they
they have seized, but did not because they were caught up in the terror of this does
Ease and they stayed away and now the ship assailed I know
I know I stayed awake worse in Naples, the Jim, the dancing I go to a hospital
So we had a double whammy there, no Jim, no, no german hospital, but that but yeah you're right and frankly, one of the things on
you know, planning on doing when I go back home and you know what a few weeks just to have my annual checkup, which I haven't missed by by too many weeks, but you're right, you got to you, got to stay on top of these things and when people tell you you can't do it
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hospitals are going to have to be bailed out. That's hard, you going
we spend in building
billions of dollars for them and if they can
play in business, are they gonna be laying off people that actually kept us
all alive as
first line responders,
but we're gonna say you don't have a job any more, because the hospitals in trouble so hate them
you're putting your life on the line during all this time. But now I'm sorry, we don't need you we'd. We can't pay you the hospitals in trouble, your people are saying, are we gonna get back to normal and I think the quest
should be not. Are we gonna get back to normal? But how do we move forward?
Though we ever got to get back to normal, I don't know, but I do know that we have to move forward
one way or another. We have to find a way to get out there
and put our lives on the highway again and get moving along. That's what I know.
Well, I'm moving forward
I'm getting our lives back on a line in talking, frankly, with with our own kids, it's amazing
that younger generation would be chomping at the best to get out, but a number of them are the ones who are sitting at home thinking I hate being here, but I'm not
coming out till. I know it's safe and their terrified of the risk of coming out and it's like what can we do to make it? How can we impress upon you that it is time to start to emerge from this quarantine and they shake their heads and kind of it back into the original conversation of not having a conversation, because they discount what we say they know I'm not goin out, not not tellers occur, not tellers vaccine not or whatever, and that's that's terrifyingly, see those jobs. That generation isn't authorities twenty two thirds employees
and then the case that their rights are all being raised with this. This fear scary suck. My book will assume cocktail party the other day in the what about your uncle's Woods Cross, examining him
As you know, if I were you, I would be strategizing thinking. What would it take to get out of this small apartment in New York? I would be trying to come up with a strategy for one point. Two point three point: four. So what's your strategy and they went off it's a nice discussion without resolutions. Other topic, the result was when there's a cute when it safe when it said
they said the cure, but when we sit down and when they get back out there, the economy's been impacted. The schools have been impacted, restaurants shops
so many jobs, and so
as a result. We,
going to wind up with despair des some experts
The best debated that there will be,
digital, seventy five thousand suicides.
When this all rose out? That can't happen. We can't let that happen. We ve got all these tests
forces for the medical side of this and God bless him. I think they're doing a great job. I know people want to find fault with these
sport said, have given wrong information early on. They gave the information they had their
all they can do and as it evolves, they'll give us new information. We have to stand by the scientists.
I know some of these people that I mean they're, sleeping on cots in the research labs and stuff working to find answers to this. I dont have a
medical word to say about these people. Even if we get
better information from him. It was the best way.
At the time.
And who knows, will there be seventy? Five thousand more suicides are not God I hope not, but why
I do know, is misleading.
Mark TWAIN said: it's not what you don't know
it gets us in trouble? So much as it is what we
Oh for sure. That's just not so
yeah we're so damn sure we know somethin as it turns out. We did no one at all and we
gotta be open, minded to it. It oh you wasted re suffer.
I dont know. If he's living with every day, you know she's the chair of the Board of Trustees, Skidmore College and their struggling with whether you know reopen unhappy person in the world
All in and the president of my alma mater Brown rode up a very provocative article in the New York Times Sunday newspaper a week ago, where she said you know here two years rounds plan that students on antipersonnel is that something that should happen should not happen. Is that, although the interpreted I think that is what are we reopen? Schools for kids they interact
teachers at each other is probably one of the biggest issues that we are facing in the next three months. Will, I think so as well, and the students are
mostly anxious to go back to school and either
Parents are, of course, scared to death because we don't know about it.
Actually we don't know about antibodies. We have so many contradictory stories, but we ve got
get out of the blame game. It's not about blaming people for not having answers are giving us things that they then backtrack. On its like, say, ok, it
is what it is, the thing that I'm so
Concerned about is, we have to look at both.
I did the equation. There are despair deaths from the core,
team and the loss, the economic impact, and
just in the United States. Let me tell you: when you get into some of the lesser developed countries, there is no.
Question in my mind that as the GDP
He has gone up that more people have moved above. The path
the line and as the world economy goes down, those people are gonna fall below
the poverty line, and we know when they do the care they get is less and less, and
cost lives as well. We just have to think about that. No question about it and you know they re an internet site
that is a lot of learning online is. Is ok in and you can learn things but
I learned way more in college, in the dorm and and yet the boat house and at the gym, then I did released as much
did in the classroom. It's that interaction where you were exposed to people from different walks of life and the the late night debates in the dorm room dormitory, where one person staying one side, the other is taking another. That is part of our education, that's part of our educational experience and we just can't lose that
we can't lose that interaction and worry
all walks of life as it gets easy
order online. So you don't go into a store. You don't get the try something on you don't get that ticket out. You don't get to interact with the retail baby, something the train has left the station, but we can't let that train leave the station in the educational sphere.
Gotta put stood together, so they can learn from each other and there's got to be a way to do that safely. There are studies being done now that show that this
Irish is much more widespread
More and more people I mean by huge factors, have
an infected by this then have been counted, which means the death rate is much smaller.
Because if you only think x number of people have been infected and then you can know how many people have tragically passed. Then it's a high per cent
should you find out that a thousand times as many people have been infected, then the percentage go
Way way down and we have to figure out,
How we can protect those that are vulnerable,
and also respect the capacity of our medical system too,
respond. If there's a surge in a community I mean,
seems to me from a behavioral standpoint. When I look at this from the medical psychological standpoint and you say: ok, doc,
Phil. What are the behavioral issues here? Doing
need to number one protect the vulnerable when we,
open the world if we know that people over sixty five
for over seventy, whatever the mark is are
most vulnerable and those with underlying conditions like see
l, a p d or asthma or lung cancer, or
any kind of amino suppressing disease or disorder are,
commonly at risk. Then don't we need to make it short
first to protect them and
and also not user.
One size fits all but watch and see city
By city, do they have the capacity
if they lessen the restrictions to.
Angela surge of it occurs, and if you
doing those two things: if you're protecting the vulnerable and your prepared for it,
Turkey should it occur that it
seems to me that we need to start thinking about ways to safely responsibly, commonsensical early and scientifically guided start moving
I came to the world
when that is what people are doing it now. I mean they're doing it whether you want to do it or not. People are starting to migrate to them because they ve hit a breaking point here. You eat, you see. He said I selected and I hope they stay isolated action, civil disobedience and at that that's not a good place to go, but but the governed and Andy Governors both that responsibilities, the governors have responsibilities to promulgate rules that are reasonable and make sense, and then the governing the app to obey them. Even if they disagree with them,
We are now in a period where some people are San. I don't believe in that law. Therefore, I'm not gonna buy back it up a pass. It is, is lawyers we don't we don't think anybody should go there. You know if you like a law than new challenges in court and the course that's happening too.
Well, I've read and listen to some of the videos and documents that have been taken down from Facebook and other social media platforms, and I was appalled that they had been taken.
In some of em. I just didn't agree with at all I mean the content of, and I thought this is moving too fast you're telling people to get back out there too.
Soon you're telling them to disregard the very things that have allowed us to
Oh the role on this pandemic. I don't agree with what you're saying, but
They had a legitimate point of view. They were medical doctors, they were responsible professionals that we're just giving their
born of U hell in the world.
Can we be in America and take that there were people, don't have the right to consider it. Thank you
it in and throw it away you're not well, because the First amendment Roy applies to governmental actions, but at the same time you have if enough people rise up against this. Take down in excess of self censorship is what's going on and it censorship on the basis of an alleged to proceed misinformation just because they make
the disagreement on points of view with not even necessarily disagreement on fact, but how can that happen? I think at least with Facebook or little social media such as that, if you have enough people who again rise up and complain about it,
Ah, they can do it there. Maybe mineral oil. These issues about how close Facebook is a social media, how much power they have that there should be was friends put on them by the governments, but then that gets very sticky as well. I don't think I think the better aspect is. Is it up is up to the citizens right to make their voice known that they will not tolerate that. You know the Pisa internet platforms have got immunity from suit Chechen. Do thirty immunity
but the thought behind that was that we wanted. We want to create a freedom on the internet for people to say whatever they want, and these platforms are just gonna be like
what's in war and they're, not gonna, have any interactive role with the bulletin board. Whoever wants to put something up on both the mortgage. Do it. But now you know these platforms are being drawn into making decisions about content that is posted on their platforms.
Example. Yet there's a copyright violation. Well then, the owner of the copyright brazen since eight they get down
violated by copyright, so they take it down and it somebody a right sentences. This was poured a graphic. This is this. Is this is seen they they take it down, and then you can see where it leads to now the sun, the play
warmest, which were supposed to be setting are now being drawn into a content. Regulation will find their private or private companies, but are jeopardizing jeopardizing their immunity from a lawsuit. So that's gonna get either taken away or it's gonna get modified
In the future and what results that will have, I don't know I worry about that, because you don't want to open up for more litigation about the content of speech to worse than you can be doing. But
That may be where we are at it. You think he'll make a good point. That
to remember is that these first amendment guarantees are against government muscling. It's about the gun
but can't muzzle is it doesn't mean that we have to let somebody come over on our front, porch and preach what they believe tat. My right is just a government can't tell em they can't do it.
Right and got. You know, government as roll up. I want to protest on a public street
I and somebody you don't comes in here- tries to exercise the actors veto like.
You know drown out. My boy should grow water balloons. I mean everything. Well, the government has to step in there and say no, they get to speak and you get to speak, which again you began groundwater, but you can't
Did you get your watermelons? No one another and cannon
violence and you can't create a hazard and in the middle of the highway, and all that,
we're talking about social media here, and you know, I guess
The thing that bothers me is maybe not so much. What
is being sad because, as I say when I look, I've gone back and charted these things out and looked at
what was said by the World Health Organization originally in the others there's been.
Ambiguity on topics about. Is this airborne? Is it not airborne? Does it adhere to services does not adhere to services? How long does it last on the surface? What does it take to clean it?
which medications might help which ones might not help
I mean it's been so much back and forth about all of this and I get it
everybody's trying to find answers so they're doing the best they can. I want people to remember that there are
different ways to lose: your life, your hair.
Then well being in this and theirs
more than just the virus attacking
physiologically and robbing you of your health that there
our mental and emotional issue
it is here that cannot
be ignored and we have to start paying attention to those in water
triggers for our children
as you say, are they going to be afraid to go back to school when people do go back to work? Are they gonna have PTSD
what is needed in the building is gonna, be like somebody else, fumble in a football game, thereby
I was under a desk me what water people going to do and I think we need to start talking about this on every
a platform that we can and letting people know hey these other
flags to watch for here's. What to do
if you see that
happening in your life or that of a loved one part of the stimulus packages need to be providing for mental health and
Care and support of young and old alike on
psychological side of things. I saw something recently that I thought was very telling. There have been certain crises in.
The world where first line responders began
Do they have nightmares that were
system in terms of content, for example those that
were involved in Hiroshima, those in
or war too in general, Vietnam, nine eleven? We find that
but we're having nightmares with very consistent themes,
so you would have somebody half a world away. That was the first line. Responder having
the same nightmares, someone in Brooklyn and what was the nightmare. It was about being overwhelmed.
And sometimes it would be
no symbolism. It would just be.
This viruses is going to penetrate my personal, protect
if equipment and get me and I'm gonna, take it open and give
my children, we're all gonna die.
In others, would symbolically replace them with
slithering eels or air
rats or something that would just be overwhelming lamb and they would
Have these nightmares? That's the level at which this is impacting people, particularly in these first line.
Anders and when it rises to that level than you know, it's having an impact and we cannot ignore their. There was something that you said earlier. We are talking about the heart, but also lay like a surgeries and safer locked away on how the other positions in our cities are all our are at risk and will have no funding, but the other aspect of that that I dont think people consider as a result. This is there so much less access to health care and the mental health care. When, when these facilities shut down these programmes shut down and nobody in there and it's not avail-
will any longer. Where are we, then you wrote to live with know where to go. There's let their left with no resource in his dislike early too early,
text, Shannon early intervention with physical disorder. If
you're having emotional issues. Maybe
your delusional, maybe you're in the early stages of schizophrenia, or
depression or whatever, and you have nowhere to go, no help to get no medication. No one to talk too. That's not good
they get better on its own, particularly with an overlay of stress and pressure.
A worrying about finances, jobs, health, although that is just gonna, make it worse and worse and worse. So what
You say to the average citizen: how can they be heard in such a way to open up the dialogue? What did they do? Have they have an impact on this?
well this. Is there all sorts of avenues, so the great thing about the internet is that you can get. Everybody should publisher, so you can. You can send your own message out on on. One of these platforms are create your own platform. I didn't do it through traditional media. I mean I mean. Is I mentioned president. The president respects brand Chris Paxton, an enormous impact by an article. She wrote on the up at page about
putting the university students you can you can stand up and acquire I. You know I was jogging the other day and they had their open the beaches here than they closed them, and there were six people out by the beach. You know just complaining about that with signs and tv truck rolled up in the and started interviewed himself yelled at these words, were they word like you know,
dollars or screamer azure. They were just very thoughtful people who why we had a point of view and thereafter expressing it, and it's not that it's a healthy thing and you know the good thing about our country. You know what a scientist
reports. Disturbing news. We don't kill him we'll Muslim. You know you hear that,
your maybe social media will attack on where some people on social media, but in our country and the genius of our country, I think, is government- does not stop people from talking and it can't stop people from talking. The first amendment keeps that from happening, so there
they're, just so many avenues and ill people like you, have platforms enormously. Influential platforms
you know how to work from home seem worthy arise, shows them
you know you're, here
bringing out a lot of, is you say you know terrific scientific information and scientists in interviewing them, and that's just a great thing to about a platform like that and adjust terrific in our country that we do that. I'm sure there are based
where people their voices are eater, shouted down over their products to be stopped by other private individuals. But if you want a message to get through in our country, you can get through
I guess we can have some objectives that we want to underline as we as we talk here in a number one is.
Let your voice be heard.
I really am grateful for all.
These people that have been working so hard to get us rolling again, should we have
then the quarantine I don't know
What I know is we're here now and what do we do now and I'm can
and about our children and the schools, and I'm can
earned about people that are foregoing much needed. Important diagnostics and treatments
that can wind up
creating issues form waiter later.
Concerned about an economy that is being crashed,
and wiping away people's lifetime work, and we ve got to figure out a way to pay attention to folks
action to all of them? The law
of life from despair? The loss of
I from losing everything people of work for the last
life from loneliness and that
Does it mean the loss of life from viruses? Any less important is critically important, but
anyone less of a loss.
Because they were lost to despair and being so forlorn and
the lost that
you couldn't go on versus,
that loss or life to the virus.
I mean a loss is a loss to a family and I dont think either one should be taken lightly or neglected, and I hope they talk about it in.
That's why I'm asking you guys? How do we get people to be more out spoken about that and I think you said, use the platform you ve had Beecher drum. You don't have to wait for somebody
Give you permission. You have permission shouldn't. You can write your local newspaper I mean here and where we are flawed, other small, boldly out
their letters to the other hurry you get out a community I'll talk to people, they re people need to take it upon themselves to just start the conversations and to try and keep the emotion out of it, probably as best they can keep the other hyperbole in rhetoric out budget
dark start the conversation. Ah, they can right through their representatives that regular hired men like right through the president, the active steps. If people can take that
and you can be passionate without being wild. You don't have to Gretel
court has like your hairs on fiery Emma. You can go in there with passion and commitment. You have to look like you, ve gone completely insane
I'm not everybody can render the courthouse with their hair on fire. You didn't,
loved. You softball get come on
the question, for the two of you mean year become
as far away in the country as we could be from each other right now
God Bless zoom, that's a word. I didn't have mother cabbie Larry four months ago it
part of my everyday life, where do you predict? We will be.
In the fall will this country be open.
Will our children be back in school? Will you
doing jury trials,
well, I have an audience it Paramount Woody. What do you guys predict? Come fall well tell if, as I thought I had, I don't know what it means that I keep it
One of these days we are gonna, come wake up and go well. That was a mistake. We're gonna get on with our life as it was, and I know that's not going to happen. I would hope that
the way things are moving things seem to be moving quickly now I love science, vaccine and treatment and on, but I think it's gonna be a total of member before things really get going. I'm hoping disposal opening the temper, but maybe not talked over, I'm I'm taking them books, and probably
not until the first year. Do you think Skidmore is gonna, have class hope classes.
On campus in September,.
I think they're trying to working on those plans right now in and it may be a modified.
Being a residential college river.
The Liberal arts college, must lay hands on learning, but there are issues so talking about if you have a limited to one bathroom push that could not have our student body down to six hundred students on campus at any given time. Mrs twenty four outwards, though those those big
vision and adult we'll see what happened, but don't know working on that now that the Mcgovern Viscous
back to something chip said earlier in this field
play for the shameless plug for Skidmore, but I've had the
the opportunity to meet with the entire faculty skidmore. Am, I don't think
I have ever met a more devoted and passionate group of educators in my entire life, and so I I harking back to what
said about how Valley
will, it is to have
a motivated student body that can interact the ability to walk into.
Professors office during office hours and really debate something or talk about something or problem solved. Something, and I just think that
it would be no better place than that. That would be honoured.
Eyes than it somewhere like Skidmore ministers,
an amazing institution of higher learning. So I really hope
You guys figure a way to break that code. Cuz chip, your ride, it's just so important. I think different parts of the country are going to face
challenges- and I think there are some parts of the countries where the schools will open with students in september- I don't think this all parts of the country will do that. I think that you know some of the places that have had the most challenges in New York City being the obvious one will have what will have trouble
Copenhagen and September sharper big bad. In the background, by the way, I feel very real.
Every time it goes off,
Dad during this one that it is like a red line is the last one but the like, but I think that every british try and everybody I think, recognises that the sooner we can get get back to interacting with each other at the school level, at the retail level. At the restaurant level, at the bar level, the better off we're gonna, be, as you say, we just have to do it as safely as we can see a risk reward type thing. We have to see how much risk were willing to take in order to reap the rewards, but I think some
parts of the country you ll see kitchen school in September. Well, I certainly hope we can find a safe way to do that. To give our kids a rich experience, I've talked to so many that it's been very painful for
in May that now, for
years that are prom
is going to be mass graduation and those
activities what they work so hard for a walk. That stage in and
see that diploma and see their parents out there so proud of them and everything at high
The level college level is just really of Aceh,
a thing to see it be taken away from so many people, and I hope they all take the pictures
hope they put on the dress, put on the tax put on the cap and gown take the picture
Earth they'll have better stories to tell about those pictures than any other time ever.
This was that this was by a pandemic prom. We did. It
six months later
Nobody wants to buy them, but do you know maybe they will? Who knows very well,
Well, I sure hope so and look at my attitude about this is just come on. Let's that's really
having a dialogue again, I think every scientist in,
and politician that has worked so hard on this from the
the commissioners, that the governors, the senators, the representatives in Washington,
and all the first line responders. I've had so much opportunity to interact with these
men and women that get up every day and go to these hospitals like in New York City, where they,
Oh, the air is filled with the virus and
then they have to go home in their spouse
can children are there and
worry about am I going to infect them, and but yet they
still show up every day and and do what they do and
I have always said crises.
Mikey rose, they did reveal who people already were, and boy has
one revealed a lotta, he rose in America and
I'm sure glad away, and they are our nephew s doktor in New York, who were a static when I and the queen in Queens his wife
suddenly it wasn't a matter whether we were gonna get. This is just a matter of when and should not be guided, and then she got it
and they got over it boys at home under the age of seven- and we will do it yet it but
but he got over and back in the clinic. I mean you
the net amazing working twenty four seven trying to help other people,
an workin so overworked, which compromises your midst system, which is the worst thing you could do, but yet thanks
Do it anyway. So may God bless him all what Nancy Chip
I appreciate you weigh in the end on this, and I really appreciate your point of saying.
Everybody has a street corner.
Whether its social media or their local newspaper or their church, or there
neighbourhood everybody has a street corner that they can get up on a box and say what they think, and
Maybe when enough people register in then
maybe some of the censorship will stop, but what I hope is that
can store some of the hay put it away and- and
have some gratitude, whether you agree with them or don't have
Some gratitude for all of our leadership has been working on this and have some gratitude, sir,
lay for the scientists that our work and around the clock, I don't care if they had wrong information.
These are two months ago. They gave us what they had. This is this
is new that that's why they call this a novel virus.
Its new they're, not misleading us for profit or something there tell us what
they know when they know it and revising it. When they can, we just have to keep up with it and find it
stood source and rely on that source and keep track of what they're telling you so in
and please hear me when I say these: these deaths due to despair PTSD.
Anxiety? All of these things. We have to pay attention to ourselves feeling this into our laws.
One showing the warning signs.
When you see it,
you always say you see something say something that you see something with a love when go say something to them to say: hey how you feeling for some
I can help you with. Would you like to talk? Some? Is there some way I can,
just knowing that somebody cares, makes a huge, huge difference,
no word the rope here of bill, but I want to thank you for introducing the nightmare of slithering
I'm about to go to bed you're these powers to that such phenomena,
whereas the nightmare wish me up all the time
We are well aware that there will be a part of my
My view is that I will do this
I'm so glad I could make a contribution.
Guys, like you so much- will
So thank you so much.
Beauty, sleep is real alert.
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Transcript generated on 2020-06-18.