In this moving and enlightening episode of the Phil in the Blanks podcast, Dr. Phil speaks with Dr. Warren Farrell about “The Boy Crisis.” They discuss how boys are socialized into unhealthy relationships with themselves and the world, and the horrible price society pays when unhealthy boys grow up into unhealthy men, including failed relationships, lost contributions, violence and crime, and breakdowns in physical and mental health. Dr. Farrell lays out a bold path forward that keeps the best aspects of being male and adds an empowering new social and emotional landscape. If you know a boy or have been one yourself, then this episode will probably change your life for the better. for more information: https://www.drphilintheblanks.com/
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
It's those kinds of complexities that cause me to say how much I admire the single mother and when working for all, that's his parents want to see. My daughter is happy with the boy that they as worthy of their love. We would
we all realise that the way that we got love was by keeping our feelings to ourselves. You showed you, didn't you
well, this is doctor failure. That means you have found your way to fill in the blanks and this
a very special episode for me, because I have a very special gentlemen
by guest today, Doktor Warren Pharaoh I'll. Let you hear a lot from Heaven just a minute, but I need to brag going for a minute I was
he's telling him a second before went on the air that this was special for me and I'll. Tell you why,
I heard about a show recently and we were talking about a subspecies
EC stories and facts- and
was very frustrated that when you're dealing with specific stories and facts,
Get the story told you have to deal with the facts of the story, and there was so much more. I wanted to hear from Doktor Warren Feral there
wasn't enough time to hear all
of the incredible information that he has to share from all of his time in all of its research and the minute we walked off. I said I have got to have
sit down interview with him, where we just talk about his
when a view, his research, his findings with
having to deal with the specific fact pattern: a specific story
because he has so much inside too
subject matter that we're talking about today that he's the
author of a lot of death?
thanks, but his most recent book, which he called out
John Grey is the boy crisis and its really describe.
As a blueprint for what parents, teachers policymakers,
due to help our sons become.
Happy or healthier me, father
to do so in a way, that's really worthy of society's respect now
who is Doktor Warren Furrow well he's been chosen by the financial times- is one of the world's top one hundred thought leaders he's a new
time is best seller. He wrote why manner the way they are
The international best seller, the myth of male power he's been
Martin Luther king of the man's movement, but you might be surprised to know that he has been a pioneer.
In the women's movement as well. He's been elected three times to the board of now
York City. These appeared on a thousand tv shows Oprah, Barbara Welter of interviewed in Peter Jennings, Katy, Correct, Larry, King Tucker, Karlsson, Rageous, Feldman and must
bill of any more and more than once. She's got two daughters of his own.
and find him by the way at war and feral as if a double r e, double l, dot com and you
I find this to be an interesting conversation
because a me, but because of him so doktor. Thank you for joining made it. I really appreciate it is a real pleasure. I doing you shall I love the way you listen. They get your also a tough luck precedent that as the com
nation. I must appreciate
for sale there,
You know what I'm talking about the last time we were on clocks taken in you haven't, let me guess tell their story and stuff and we had different
which of you- and I thank you
our both frustrated that there was more to say about the topics and stuff. That's why I walked off say, and I need to talk to him. If we can't, I was
talking about the boy crisis, because that such an
interesting book, I really enjoyed reading at our shared a lot of it with Robin, because some
book, a knee jerk reaction to you be,
some kind of zealot for me
a man's rights, but the
the matter is you take,
very balanced approach to the
yes, and really
it's a call to action for men to step up and
what men need to do. But you also recognize that men need to get some credit. I think for
where they dont get credit all the time? And
you say that there is a crisis of education regarding
our young men and boys in America around the world. Really. What do you mean by that? Yes in office,
six of the largest developed nations
are falling behind girls in every academic subject on average, but especially
in reading and writing in his it doesn't take too much imagination to figure
reading and writing at the single biggest predicted. The success or failure
the boys and United States in particular, are very likely to much more likely than girls to drop out of high school and when a boy drops out of high school he's, not just dropping out of high school he's dropping out of a sense of purpose he's dropping out of his
faster or not having a place to channel constructive and positive energy
so as early as in the twenties, even before covert way.
The unemployment rate in the United States was three point. Eight percent of the unemployment rate for boys
our work was on average they dropped out of high school, more than twenty percent
and so this is twenty percent of boys, the once a drop in high school.
that are set up for a very potentially destructive channeling of their of there.
G and when you see boys in prison, I you see
boys core very highly likely to drop out of high school, but also I discovered that
all around the world with all the areas where the boys were having problems. The
common denominator was up
minimal amount of father involvement or what I called GAD deprivation either they didn't know their father. The father had left in early
age when the father was very mainly or not at all involved with the family and so that started to, and that was heard.
Different. When I started out with when I started to, I submitted the book proposals, the publisher, I had ten causes of the boy Christ,
a outline data outlined with you with this idea of having ten parts of it about each boss and ended up finding that the lack of father involvement was by far and away what I would call the hub
was what let's talk about their former, because I think about this is
an auto exacerbating situation; in other words, its
situation that makes itself worse because
the young men are affected disproportionately and dry.
bout. Then it compounds their place in the world. Then they become
less involved fathers and, as they become less involved fathers, then that trickled down to their children and
A generational legacy is set in place, and so that creates a problem with them.
Children who then become less involved, and that's what I mean by it makes itself worse,
We really have to stop that because your second point is it's a crisis of father. You say boys,
our growing up.
less involve fathers and are more likely to drop out of school, do drugs become delinquent and end up
in prison cell
this, having a father,
as a role model as a guide to
boundaries and structure is very important
not just academically, but society as well.
Slowly and every level where you were
in the same family boat, and when only one sex winds both sexes lose
Women do not like dating losers; they don't do not like dating purposes people there.
Like Mary them and especially dont, want them for their fur to marry them to be a father and
one. When we work on boys problems and we understand what is what is challenging boys week, we-
a working for girls as Well- and we are working for
thus, his parents, who want to see our daughters happy with a boy that they were the other love,
so, when we, when we vote,
is only on one. Gender were really doing both genders a really major disservice.
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talk about something that I think is really interesting and I'd like you to expand on it. Some you talk about
A fully involve dad develops a dad brain talk about what
you mean by dad brain because you're talking about really activate
in a nest of neurons that would otherwise be dormant. As twenty four,
It started with a resource for the boy crisis I just assumed here we have a motherhood. Instinct, like is activated particularly when a woman is pregnant. I had no
idea that there is a whole nest of dormant neurons,
that, depending on how our father reacts were, but a baby is born.
I will either get activated or not so Silver Father interprets his role when a baby is
Whereas now I have to increase my focus on my work in order to be able to
More money for the family, the dad
changes, doesn't develop so effectively or so much, but if he starts focusing on to a considerable degree on the love, the fields for the child into the infant
even before the child is born. Touching the mothers belly invest
himself emotionally in that potential for their child birth and seasons
of his actively involved. The desert. This whole nest.
Ons begins to connect ends.
The dad develops a brain is very similar to, but not identical to the mutton. The brain that develops that we call the mother had instinct of his his part of his instincts
a different but his involvement. We often say mothers have unconditional love. Well, that's all
so have unconditional love, tat still so much have unconditional approval
but the way they love is by more conditional approval that his unconditional in its work
and so, when heap money, invest that way. His dad brain develops
to be very similar to back but again different. Also, then
a membrane still relevant when a child is born,
When I was reading about that in your book, I really recognised what you
talking about and a book we're talking about? Is the boy crisis? By the way I highly
recommend if you're a parent or money
Your children is becoming apparent or someone in your family. Is you pick this up? You can find it where
books for soul on Amazon, wherever it call the boy crisis is a great risk.
It's an easy read, but it is very thought provoking and when I
My first child j- I was very involved,
recognised of change,
and my value system, and in my brain- and I was applied-
I used to fly a certain way.
Never recklessly, but aggressive,
we never thought twice about.
Shooting I afar approach down to minimums
in whether whatever and as soon as J was born,
I immediately started flying
differently. Ask myself: why am I doing this? Why am I shooting an approach down to two hundred feet and eighteen hundred foot
way. Visual range just because
you can doesn't mean you should use
We have the right to do this. All of a sudden, I started questioning things that I would never even of
about before, and it was
the feeling, as well as a thought
process, I started shortening trips and change
everything to be
involved and them
started coaching little league teams and everything changed and you get involvement and like say, is different than mom
she's the soft place to fall, and you have
unconditional love, even though you might require different things of him than a mom might so
understand the difference between conditional but unconditional love. So you too,
God it very very well from what I experienced and the outcome
that you talk about, I want to discuss and listen it does. It mean.
that single moms cannot
raise very productive
successful, well adjusted young man, because they certainly can and do every
I am there my heroes, they single bombs that our work
raising children then doing
what it takes. Our
absolute heroes, but there
children that our father deprived it either
effect. Something called the tell him here in children. Talk about that little bit.
as one of the things that shocked me. What I was doing, the researcher, the boy crisis- was the till the till, a mere difference that at the age of nine and a half years, scientific studies
of till a mere says that those are the cells in our body that contain all are preventing diseases like they prevent cancer, prevent heart disease, not
things, and so one boys and girls have access to their fathers in a significant way by the
of nine and a half and there they are likely to develop, have longer tool in the years after that scene,
the biggest predictor of a longer life expectancy predicted at the age of nine and a half. So when they're dead, deprived, the tiller mirrors on average of girls and boys are forty percent shorter. That is there. The prediction of their potential life expectancy is all
he had a forty percent shorter rate. However, the boys I said forty percent should, I meant to say, fourteen percent shorter, but boys give the difference with boys is yet forty percent shorter rate than the difference with girls, and so the data provision has its huge
fact on the life expectancy of children and even that early age, but an even just proportionate, more impact on the the life expectancy of boys, either being considerably shorter or considerably longer EVA,
girls and the silver. It's almost have met its both science and also a metaphor for the impact of the cat deprivation on both sexes
and having said that, I also on a really reinforce what you
you said a moment ago about us
Nobody works harder, probably in this world,
in our single market.
and no one is more devoted to the love of the children.
And there are many things- a single mom can do what
number, one to bring the two give them
imbalances and number one is to understand. The difference is between dad
style, parenting and mom style parenting,
value that enough to bring the than the Father back into the family, but ass. The father is absolutely hopeless and can't be brought into the family is passed away, and this also things a man can do like their children involved with faith based communities, get them involved in sports, and I don't mean just sports. Like team sport, I mean when I called a liberal arts of sport, which is team sports, which is pick up team sport, which are very important for developing entrepreneurs and also.
sports that require self, starting that then to perform on your own, and when children have the combination, they can really develop very effectively find
major for your children, if you're a single mom, but also encourage the mentor to help your son find somebody to to mentor because, just like doktor feel just said,
His way of thinking about the world change the moment
he had J in his life and his other son in his life. Be a boy,
Jesse, STAR saying I can't I have to finish my homework or look like I would be a good.
The apple for that boy and mentoring. I have two points.
Well. In the sport, like I said, I was going to or all
like a loser in the boy. Mentoring will not pay much attention to me. Is
sense of feeling, like I'm needed, that men and women,
both need? But women often get that the moment they have a child. A father has to be told his differences in the way he parents
Those differences are valued. I need you to rough house. I need you to depress me on taking up in taking this. There
sensible rests with our son. I need you husbandry
Did you ever biological dad even afford divorce?
pointed out, because if my
Sir listening and they say well great, I've got
son in the dad, a drug
stories in prison or he's DIS
uninvolved you started another family in he's, just is not.
engaged in any way. So what
screw dear, so my son's going too
have you told me, or fourteen percent decreased
forty percent more than fourteen percent, because he's a boy so
tell me that I'm doom,
because his dad's, not here in what you say it is not true you can fly,
Oh, that need in other ways, and you can do it by expense
in your parenting style to contain
you to be the mother and the soft place to fall in all the thing.
That mothers are so good at innately but expand
Your parenting style to also include some
further out on the continuum than what you might normally do and then make
he does have exposure to some well selected males that can provide that
influence on him and then putting him in that role, so he can take up. The responsible,
Lee and become. The role model is well both of them
thanks so much
don't have a dad in the home or of
level. There are not left out,
They can still provide that stem
less that input that role modeling for their choice,
so. It's not fair just out in the cold excellently and you
the attention to the part of the boy crisis programme, talk about dead style parenting and then just get yourself involved in something like what is
dad style. Apparently, it might be something like rough housing, so don't be afraid to rough house with your children and because the normal reaction is when gas rough house is like
God. I just have one more child monitor here
I don't wanna, be controlling the children, seem to be having fun so I'll. Try to stay away by just intuitively feel that
It's gonna get her here sooner or later, and your mom is only about ninety nine point. Nine percent likely to be right,
one of the children gets married. Another and
and then the bomb is shocked that the dad says: ok, sweetie here you can't put your
elbowing your sisters, eyes like that, and if you do,
that again, you read it we're gonna, stop rough housing among us, wait a minute
You didn't learn the lesson from the fact that the kid just got hurt you minutes, give them another chance in rough house again, but it's that other chance that dad investing
and then, when the children violate because Eric
pretty emotional intelligence under fire as a psychologist, but it and they don't pay attention to dance,
conditions I wish rough housing will continue and then
stop the rough housing when
was conditions. Don't continue, he doesn't repeat eyesight
you couldn't do this and give them
the chance? He stops the rough house in its that that teaches the children postpone gratification. I can't have the gratification
winning unless I consider my sister's needs my brother's needs, and I understand the difference between
being aggressive versus being asserted, and the kids will understand,
haven't that they are able to be asserted, not aggressive. They have more friends in school.
They do well, the kids it have postponed. Gratification do well other subjects in it
in every other way, and that's what leads to the children, one of the things that these children being healthier but mom you can do that
rough housing. Also, and as long as you, coupled with boundary enforcement,
and not a repeat of the US of the suggestion for it to be a sort of versus aggressive,
and you ve got a study that some his dad might
a yellow rub some dirt on it. You'll be fine ill sometime. Bad can go too far that way in.
Is not always right, but mom can make some adjustments.
found some really interesting facts. For example, a study of ISIS fighters concluded that almost all male and female fighters had-
in common some type of absent father sender. I thought that was really interesting. You found it
other present families,
score higher in math and science, even
they came from weaker schools, so
There was this a lot of things that dad's ad and you can
make a sermon, early, long list of everything
that mom sad. So it's not that it's just dad.
You're disk focusing on talking about what
absent Father can create,
and what a present father can add to the situation,
doesn't mean that there are critical things that the moms Edward is talking about the dad side of it right now. Yes, children
so we need the assurance of doing that if, if its, if their, if their talented or
that mom is much more likely to focusing on sweetie. You have a special gift here, I'll try that gift out and you dont, be afraid of abuse.
That in Sweden, you're really good at this hour and don't take too much Dante too much risk. Don't go out there
and when you get in a boy calls you chicken, if you don't jump off the the bridge, ensure
understand what being called chicken is in this. This boy is try to tempt you enter risking your life and those
things at Mount, a really good at an end and the region-
found the children who do the best you best with checks and balances. Parenting is because that that man's propensity to protect and the gas pipeline
It is to take risks, as you said a moment ago, both can go to the extremes in every word. Every virtue taken to its extreme becomes
eyes, and the value of gas mounds working together in men and women working together is, I think we both tend to sort of like bell.
As each other out and help each other here, the other side, if one knows how to listen to your partner without taking the the different perspectives that they have as crew
and that they one of the reasons I got involved deeply in the last thirty years of doing couples. Communication workshops is seeing that young, the boy crisis results from often times divorces, divorces, result from poor communication and poor communication is about more than
in a single thing, I see. The Achilles heel of all human beings is our inability to handle personal criticism from a loved one without becoming defensive, especially when that criticism is given badly and almost everybody considers any criticism given by their love one as criticism that badly and so that in the other world
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your people always asked me? Why is it that it stings so bad? When you get criticism from somebody, you love
truth is, is because
you care what they think if the guy that works down
the coroner grocery store
tells you you're doing something wrong. Ok, you
way that but you're not invested in that person's opinion
of what you do or don't do, but Europe
partner, someone you ve chosen to share your life with someone that you want to be proud of. You someone
their approval it when they create
size, you that has gravity as opposed to some stranger. You don't know, of course, its things more. When it comes from somebody you're invested,
and it's supposed to that's, why it
eggs, courage for them to tell you, and you should value that more, even though it might disappoint you
that you ve disappointed them. They it takes courage for them.
Oh you that they don't have to tell you that a really good friends
And it will tell you of you smell, like a goat
have spent each year to eat it's easy. If they didn't say anything, it takes a lot for them to tell you that, and so we need.
Two way that when it actually happens, I couldn't
Furthermore, the more
You love the more vulnerable you feel, and so, when you
vulnerable you often get angry and so at anger is so frequently vulnerabilities mask, and we shall we hear people that are angry. I'd like to I'd like to beg us to hear behind the anger behind which we call them haters here behind the hate, the act that the hurt and if you start listening to the hurt and fought and asking for them, how do they look at the world? What is it what whether they experience at where this hate come from?
almost a when people write me angry emails. I write back and said Anne empathetic response is like their next email following up is like. I can't believe
You heard what I'm saying. Thank you so much. I really not.
And their much different person that I receive an email afterwards,
were hearing now present Joe Biden talk about the importance of empathy and the importance of hearing each other. The best thing that he could do is to speak up to the country about here is what I understand about. What Republicans are saying here is were out here is where I feel
but I can agree it over laughed at them, let no they are being heard. Then you will begin
the process of healing.
Always say I asked
but to do this all the time when I'm working with them here is
take anger out of your vocabulary and when you would say
I am angry so,
to do it in the word, hurt, fear or frustration
Instead of saying really angry say: instead, I'm really hurt, or am I
afraid, or I'm really frustrated it really,
changes, the narrative because anger-
this kind of get them before they get me emotion, it's like
got my guard up and then the lash out is
being vulnerable enough to say that hurt me or scared me or frustrated me up
strongly in the power of language and when pair,
Sir talking about these things if they have
disagreements if they're gone
can be MIKE
oh, is that you hear me and
understand what I'm saying, not that you agree with me. In fact you don't! You
need to respond just as long as I know that you hear me I'll, leave it there and will come back to it
because if you really love each other good
chances. You want the same things, particularly with regard to your children and I
that people that really sincerely love each other will
find a way to me.
Each other's needs more often than they don't. If thou didst
My goal is to be heard and understood. You don't have to
with me. We
find a middle ground and then more feebly, laugh
Somebody listen to me. I've been heard, I'm good.
then move on, it tends to work itself out. I really can agree with. You
on this, and the importance of this
is really are paramount because the of the couples communication work- I do he said if I can shoot parts, one
is learning how to hear the other person completely and and have asked them for more asked them for what they did
sorry about that. You missed anything and so on and when and most people feel many times, part of the training is the person is listening, feels it
have to agree in order to set up here. But you don't need to agree, and- and in order to fully here somebody you just need.
a fully hear them and let them know what you heard in check
out with them, whether they feel at all, distorted or whether anything is being missed and if anything is distorted
always taken as your responsibility to keep working. I'm getting
the way they said it the way they felt it, and when you get that the
as you were, saying, I'm a medical doctor. Shell, the relief on the part of the other person is enormous sums.
I'm things need to be done, behaviorally submits drinking too much
along those lines that your move moving to a different place, going to a different place for vacation, and any details need to be worked out. That's another process
they get. There is a brainstorm, different options and alternatives, but it all
on the foundation of being able to hear each other. First road use, one of the things that you talked about.
In the book tat. I thought I was so
important it I'm curious if you think it's about structure and boundaries or if There'S-
more layering to it than that
and that is the statistic that you point out that
almost ninety percent of homer
and run away, youth are from far
their lives homes and when you think about that.
that's no accident, I mean that's, not a random statistic. Give you ran at through a statistical, Tita
Master Non parametric statistics, any test you want to put on it. That's going
these statistically significant that almost ninety percent do you think? Even though
suppose talk analysis? Do you think that that is likely because of a lack
structure or discipline
How do you explain that
thanks. A lot of things involved are part of it is
beyond explanation, what I
doing the resource for the boy crisis. I was a step to add and I wanted. I really wanted the findings to be that step. That could be every bit as good are better than your dad. Maybe that wasn't.
involved and so on, but I found it
Biologically children seem sort of heaven
drawn identity with their biological, dad
I remember that we have adopted daughter- and I remembered arrange your coming over and saying describing a day at the ranch and at the butter and the biological mom and dad were of the up of duckling city. It was racing always killed and a chicken took over.
parroting of the of the twelve ducklings and one day the ducklings, whatever will waddled out of the barn and down the hill and jumped into the lake and the and the the chicken of parenting, the dumplings, just
absolutely desert and are adopted. Daughter, said that's the way I feel every day. I feel like a judge duckling raised by a chicken
and even though we were trying our very best at our heart nor soul is invested in it, there is something
inside of us that
in the mirror, and we wonder I am what am I a part of what my dear
and when our biological, mom or dad is missing. Something is missing. Something is missing when our biological mom regard as being criticized that criticism expert has expired,
this by the child is being both a criticism of the other period, but and also a criticism of that half of the self. That is the genetics in a part of the of the of the apparent
said children child raised by with a step farther, that's really involved, is opposed to being just in the advisor position, but that it really has equal power to the bomb. In that only happens when the mom allows it lands that to happen. When the father and mother have that equal power, the children often feel very much that they have the best of both worlds,
the nurturing that mom tend to create and also the end, the boundary enforcement that dad's tend to bring to the table more frequently that obviously this can reversing
visions and boundary enforcement is very different. Most people talk the talk
a boundary setting and down to enforcement, as if it was the same thing, but they are very different. Most both mothers and fathers setbacks
there is very similar they both. So you can have your ice cream until you finish your bees. Children challenge boundaries very similar. There would have his few pieces possible before they get the ice cream and then but the difference is in
boundary enforcement moms unlikely here a child's play like I was boy did school today I had a really tough day and say: okay, sweet
I'm not gonna get into a big argument over a few peace. So I tell you, I have a few more peace and then you could ever hp. Dad's will Tipp stills tend to say. Excuse me, we have a deal here. The deal hears you can have a discreet that all its legal finish, your bees, and so the children tend to learn with dad that they have no,
option, but to finish their peace before they get their Einstein. That is their learning postpone gratification.
Mom will encourage a child to dream, based on moms sensitivities, to a child's talents, but then, when the child get to the point where it tries to fulfil that dream by practising every day at whatever sports year, he wants to accede in oftentimes. They fail at the fulfilment of their dream. If they don't have that, postponing ratification that came from boundary enforcement and that's we're dead and mom so that the personal becomes homeless is often times a person who s dream, dreamt and dreamt and dreamt, but failed and failed and failed feels it there
The thing worthwhile about them that they can fulfil the parents are expectations that their market school. They dug admired by teachers with their brother or sister, whose doing better is being admire, did not then, in the end, and particularly for teenage boys, who have lots of testosterone when they feel like they are failures. That testosterone tend to look for a bigger purpose and ISIS Aura anger that at the people there
rejected that sought to amass shooting while commit suicide, because I'm hopeless and those are the things that are that that's part of the mixture of experiences that so frequently leads to that homeless person road
when you talk about the complexities and how layer this is its those kinds of complexities
cause me to say how
the single mother that does
such a great job with
child or children. Whether
he's a stay at home, mom or a working mom that
navigates, that maize navigate sat terrain, rain
figures away to get that young man.
To turn out as productively as so many of them. Do. That's why I say
single moms are my heroes, because they figure away too, where all the different hats
get all of the different requirements done.
those young men believe in themselves teach them the things I need to do.
You'll find the resources and pull a man. The coach,
The different in
will it says in the young man's life, keep all
his balls in the air and keep the fires burning at the same time, for the family of its just astounding, the whip,
that do that and do it so well, I I couldn't
room you more when I met the woman twenty seven years ago, that became my wife, the
She was a single love and the everyday she's, a very competent worker, but she always felt she couldn't do as much as she wanted to to be. As effective at work is possible. She always felt guilty that she couldn't take the kids here to take the kids there on vacation. Other mothers take the kids and vacation they give them these experiences in. Oh, I would come over and cheek. She would oftentimes answer the question that the children
Has, rather than taught them through and should be so angry at herself there? I am. I shouldn't really be answered the question, but I have to get dinner ready. I have to get them to bed. I have to get the other daughter,
Tibet has survived the juggling act, and so we have created a society
that really has created a lose, lose lose situation, a lose situation from Mount because moms, who don't have the support of a biological dad or a really good.
At TAT hour. We almost always the word that they use most frequently is the word over welcomed the the dad feel without purpose and then needed, and the children, don't you nearly as well as they could, with both mom and dad, and so we're weep with your each generation has had its war and when we needed
Then she die to fight that nations generations. War men came forward when they were told Uncle SAM needs you. The key word for bringing men back into
family is saying a we value, you be, you have something to offer. We need you
and when men feel needed there willing to die, but men in the last fifty years, almost every tv, commercial,
that poor treason, again mom and portrays one is Adieu face, portrays the damages the do face. This is not at all
operation for our boys to become fathers that are effective and we need to start with policy changes like having communication skills training in first
wait a second grade. So boys and girls learn how to hear each other. Listen to all these things that you are talking
but a little while ago, to fill and start the process of learning how to communicate in here, each other in first and second grade. So it replaces bullying, see you here that the bully
Also is heard, and the bully has low self esteem, as well as the person that was billet bully, and so we begin to understand this type of took the foundation of compassion needs to be set in the culture at a very early age, and boys learning
that you, when you're growing up you're, not just a lot and not just a human doing. You are you,
and being- and we need you as a mostly intelligent part of the family-
What you ve made some statements that get so
people some women's hackles up for sure, and I think it's because
they read the headline and not the whole.
a few of them and let you respond. You say why,
Males have white privilege over blackmailed, but men,
in general, are under appreciated and white man have been shamed and under appreciated for decades that its very
damaging for schools to teach children at manner the oppressors and win
are the oppressed
What do you mean manner under appreciated and are missed?
characterized as being
pressing women. They are
aid more than women, they get the jobs in marriage
women don't get. They do keep
women down. Are you kidding me
You ve heard all of those things. Yes, indeed, yes result
White Male it. We have to take those things apart, because whites clearly have white privilege in relation to a black males, in particular in this culture, and an that's been the case for for many many generations, male versus female, the what what is very so
but I thought women studies at any other state in other places out one of the things that I and other people said I was on the board of Directors internationalization for women, as you mentioned before in New York City, one of the things that I know the people said what,
We live in a world in which it has done
created by a patriarchy, the patriarchy made rules to benefit men at the expense of women, or, as I began to look at that, I read the gate, realise a wait. A minute
the world was actually not dominated by a patriarchy was dominated by the need to survive in.
to survive. We both cultures developed special role,
As for women like raise children, special rules for men like raise money- and me
their gender were both sexes had what I would call
the rigid rules of the past- need
sex had flexible rules for the future, where the first people to understand this Betty for dear life is to be pretty close friends and she would. She wrote a book called the second stage and the second stage said that feminism will not go beyond a certain,
point without, without men, also being able to change their roles, we have to work on men's liberation simultaneously.
women's liberation. Otherwise will begin to get
we're going to each other, rather than at both the bus freed at the more flexible rules, but when the Pew Research Center ass men on for the first time whether what these were full time working men, they asked the full time working men who had children. Would you rather be full time working, or would you rather be full time with your children and forty nine percent of the men said I'd rather be full time with the children, then working and especially full time working, and so what we want we have out. There is a large number of men and women who don't wanna fit the gender role story.
and I went with when men got married, oftentimes men- and this is the really crucial point. When men got married and they had children, they often said I need to give up my love of elementary school teaching. Us it doesn't pay enough. I can't be a musician
Musical gags isn't doesn't pay enough. I can't be
aspiring writer aspiring artists aspiring actor, because that is very fulfilling to me. What I love to do not want to do, but I have to give up what is fulfilling to me too
served, my wife and my children better. So we has feminists looked at that increased amount of giving up the elementary school teacher becoming a superintendent of schools and then said we women are being oppressed because we have
few women are superintendence. Schools are fewer. Women are car seat, yours, but in fact met without understanding that it is not me
who earn more than women for the same work? It is dad's who
and more than moms, because when dad are and have children, they give up jobs that are fulfilling that pay less. They then take the road to high pay and the road to high pay as a tall road, and I'm saying we need
both sexes flexibility, but understand that the earning more money at work and giving up to
what one wants to do is not about privilege. It was very frequently about unsacrificed to protect women, to protect children and to give their children more
she's in life and they have what you said, and this is a quote family should be saying the males. Thank you for sacrifice,
what you would love to do in life to do what
You didn't want to do because it produced more money for the family. Yes and
I understand what you're saying in
terms of taking the
paying job to provide for the family, but I've got to tell you
From my point of view,.
and maybe it's just my fundamental upbringing-
and raising, but I was taught
value eyes at the role the man in the family was to be a provider of protector, a leader at a teacher. So
like anybody needs to. Thank me.
my role is to provide for my family in the better,
provide. In fact,
I can say today have been blue,
financially, I don't have to work
at all, my
I can retire and not do anything
I guess I'm working for future generations, because I'm fine I'd be
Lord to death and Robin would probably beat me to death if I was rather hats, off
so maybe a self preservation, but I don't feel like
Needless to say, we forest is what you do. What would I do if I don't do what I'm doing this?
just part of who you are.
Won't, yes, and I would say that
all need. I think you agree with this. We all need to be appreciated for what we're doing and well when we went,
one of the things I do in my workshops to say: ask everyone in the workshop to just closed their eyes for a while and to imagine, and if you listening to this, please do this with me right.
now I'll, just close your eyes for a while and imagine you're dead at an age where he had a glitch in his eye and where of and think about what created that glinted in his eye and the chances are. It was something like maybe playing with your grandchildren if you're that age or just done me a rough housing with you,
or doing going on to going canoeing paying out the image
asian or whatever, and then think about that that fantasy that glinting, that your dad's eye and then oftentimes wind,
it's when you, when you were growing up and did you get TAT, have that
in his I very often and oftentimes children will say no, I
see that Clinton might, as I very often, but I did see that glinting might
As I when I saw some pictures of him in my Mama honeymoon or arms at some other role that oftentimes dad's will give up the glint in there. I
what really fulfil them to do what they really felt they needed to do. My own. Dad
criticise me when I was contemplating becoming an author. He said worry
only one out of a hundred authors become I'll, get a publisher if you can't find a publisher you'll, never find
woman, you showed you have been you don't even after I was doing the work in the field and you'll probably identify with his two back to fill. My father said you weren't your teaching people. Psychology psychology undermines people's need to do what they need to do. Life is not what it
you need to do warrants, I'm not about what you want to do. It's about you, what you need to do your teaching people to be selfish, and I finally said to my dad dad
your generation was, the one that freed us to be able, because you worked so hard that you didn't
We didn't have to worry so much about survival. I am free to be able to choose what I want to do as a human being.
Fraid me to do that as a result of your providing decently. For me in a middle class home, I wanted
You for that and then get softened up a lot
we realised that he had made a contribution that had given me a type of freedom. He never felt he had for himself, and I hear that, as I hear people talk and improves in workshops about did the glint and there I that guides gave up to be. Maybe we don't need to be thanked for it, but we were told where the oppressors, as opposed to being well understood that even if we just played a reflects, a role that mouths wanna be thanked on mother's day.
Fourthly, the great job they did as mothers and we are all have so happy to acknowledge mothers, well we're all human beings who need that appreciation and understanding in that respect and I'd like you to give it to both sexes. What did you do?
there was an accountant and, and my gift, my biological give was in math, and I looked at the work that my dad did and it didn't appealed to me nearly
much as by less gift part of it, a verbal area and,
and in the writing areas and so on,
I chose the summit and that created the significant attention for a wife for a while with my destiny.
somebody asked me a few years ago: various been five. No, they asked me if you weren't doing what you're doing. What would you be doing.
And I think my answer was figuring out.
to get to do what I'm doing, maybe I'm just
last, where my application and my vocation are aligned, because
I think I do have that glint in my eye. Not every day is fun
and not everything. I've always done is fun, but me
most of the time
very passionate about what I'm doing, and I tell people
if you dont, have something passionate in your life where
maybe your jobs, not your passion and your job is you're means
to enable you to pursue your passion so
just a means to an end, I mean, maybe you love classic.
and so you work to have the money to spend workin on your classic cars. Are we get or something? But I guess
my goal is always been to do something and passionate about with p.
that share that passion. I don't want to be passionate. I wonder buddy around me to be passionate too. Sometimes I do
I can say-
Believe I'm getting paid for this cause, it's very rewarding. There are different
of currency and other social currency, emotional
Currency, spiritual currency, monetary currency, for me,
the old currency is all different kinds of currency that feel like
you get a lot of different kinds of currencies. Then you're really bless, and I think I do have a glint in my eye, so I don't feel like a month
appreciated cause. I get so much out of what I do
I think I have a very appreciative family and I tell my boys. Listen
every once in a while. I want
you both to this stop.
Look around. Take a deep breath.
and make sure this does not go by and a blur
My son, Jordan, performed Madison Square Garden too
in a row he's a musician. I mean sold out pack crowd, opening further Jonas brothers, who were is best friends and
my son, J Subject,
the producer of several tv shows primetime shows streaming, show, syndicated, shows and so
we're here on these lots and he has companies in Silicon Valley and
some worthwhile to stop and look around and say well,
very bless life in they do still wanted to go by in a blur.
and look back and say I took that for granted, because I think we need to fight
passion in be appreciate, wherever men or women, in share that with our children. I I could not agree more,
and I think what were you when you mentioned the phrase: multiple currencies. Are you talking about the different current
every woman who is listening to the side. I just ask you to hear this: it's the multiple currencies that create happiness and is the multiple currencies imbalance that create real power and power. We have to read the start, seeing as as happiness, ass ability to control our own life as being able to have the glint in our eye.
and so and let's let's work to make sure that men who have learned over a period of generations to keep their feelings to themselves, because the purpose of masculinity wasted to make a man disposable disposable in that nations war to the disposable in in the workplace.
So he would be able to produce the most money without asking what he wanted, and this is the first time in history. We can ask our food,
There is in our sons and our and your husband's about. What do you want? What is what creates the multiple currencies for you, the balance between personal happiness, the gluten there?
I am doing you're producing for your family, knowing that your crew
a better world for your children. These are all current, the real currencies that create real power. We want both sexes to have them the method for both sexes to start having them. Instead,
able to hear what the pain and the herd is, and it's a lot more challenging for men to share that paid in her, because we were told or lies that the way that we got love was by keeping our feelings
cells that that women didn't fall in love with men who expressed their feelings. They fell in love with men who were successful
and as a rule, men who were successful repress their feelings? They didn't express their feelings,
you said something about toxic masculinity,
a man learn early on that at all
to be a man, they must repress their feelings rather than express them, and that's how tough
masculinity is born. How do you do
toxic masculinity. Well for one thing, as that feeling that you have permission to express your feelings
and historically, if you are a man, you didn't boys, don't cry
You really don't get a chance, and no and women, children, love and
sure why not just humans, but almost all animals, but no
humans from moment. We
among humans, women's fell in love with alpha men. They didn't
love with whining men as
when a man complained, we are women. Often it felt like
to a woman too many women like the
a choice or any sort of like he just didn't, feel right to see a man complaining. You don't fall in love with a man who complained,
that felt again like a whining on an an alpha man, and there is a biological programming to make sure that forum for a woman to seek a protector provider protector and that's very different from a nurturer connector and so women who want
We gotta be have it all. Women often said to me now. I can't I can't be a habit,
One is that life is so unfair. Men can be haven't all men, and I say to my response to women is: actually you can be a have an old woman. You could be a have it all
by doing what you wanna do in pursuing that an marrying a man who who is focused, who was very happy to focus on being a full time there,
or a mostly full time that and they can take care of the children, but you have to in order to do that. You have to choose that type of man, which means that you don't wait for a man to come to you, you look at men who have acted, listening skills and nurturing skills.
Choose that man, you choose that man, because of man who has those types of skills are less likely to be the type of men who objectify women by
choosing the woman they want, because to choose the woman. They want me that they have to experience rejection nurturing connect. Your men are probably less likely to do that, so you choose
his him choose a man who was a nurturer connector. Ask him to end and respect him when he cares for the children. You'll that have assets varies
strong break the glass ceiling career, possibility. You'll also have a good marriage if you respected, but not. If you expect him to urge as much more and if you have value what he does to take care of the children. That's the way it can be
have an old woman. Well that make sense, tease Robin sometimes cause she'll, say
Wish you were more expressive or more emotional, but then, if we're on the street
some bad goes down. She's awfully glad she married linebacker. It's like you, know,
you have one or the other of more one way than the other and she's often says. I'm awfully glad that you are standing in the door when goes bad, but
I have to say I have learned a lot. We ve been married
Forty for years and.
I have learned a lot about emotional expression, insensitivity across time. You know you learn. You grow. You become more willing to express
and all of that, so that's a great definition that you gave well of
kept you longer than I meant to. We could go on forever,
two more hours. I'm gonna put you on the spot and ask you if you will do this with me again, I would love to deal with them.
It is rare that I hear somebody s such good question summarize, would have written so carefully and so accurately and then
listen so well. It's like the combination is, is just dumb, wonderful and I'm so glad it has
the fact that you are going to listen and to be a tough luck. Person has managed to fit into the medium of the day. I was so well
to have the glinting? Your eyes are doing another share with you, the suggested a lie to me
well I've been a the years for many years, as you know, because we ve known each other for a
while I am
forward to having you back on doktor fail soon and haven't you back on filling the blank soon, because I think that
very thought provoking conversations, and I think people that have a name
our reaction to some of the things that make
sensation holistic, headlines taken out of context of what you say. Maybe that
ok, if it causes people to read more
of what you say and learn more. What you say then fine, because I think they need to dig in but anyway
it's Tuesday and halfway through or whatever I've been talking to Doktor Warren Feral he's
author of the boy crisis, CO, author with John Grey, these written an awful lot. You
and find him on his website, which is war and feral dot com
a lot of things that you might find.
When you read them, you will find them very thought provoking
He is a devout feminist. To tell you the truth, I think he is
looks at both sides of the coin.
Very very realistic way: doctors,
he for doing this. I look forward to having young doktor fail again soon with an interesting case and I'll. Have you back here very soon and we'll talk about this more and probably answer some questions and comments from people that
get on the site and dig into more about what we ve been talking about,
really understood and appreciated by it
Well, thanks! So much we'll talk soon be well. Thank you.
Transcript generated on 2021-09-09.