Roger Stone is rewarded for covering up Trump’s corruption with a commuted prison sentence, the White House orchestrates a hit job on Dr. Anthony Fauci for telling the truth about the pandemic, and Congress debates the next round of pandemic relief as the economy stalls. Then Pod Save the People’s Kaya Henderson talks to Jon Lovett about the debate over re-opening schools this fall.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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I welcome the pod, save America Undrawn fairer, I'm John of it and timing, eat or unsafe pod love. It talks, deposit, the people's Kyar Henderson. We surrender DC public school system about the debate over reopening schools and fall for that. We'll talk about trumps, commutation of Roger Stones, prison sentence, the White House effort to publicly discredit, doktor fancy and the parties around ago shading the next round of economic relief in Congress
The first love it. How is the show this weekend great episode, elaborately that Josh Gonna,
then came on for the monologue, who is always
I share your honor came by to talk about everything from sports in the pandemic to the best James Bond,
movies and Alice Waterline, came and introduced us to an acquaintance of hers with a tell our book, and it was on the right fantastic, also
If you haven't yet heard the final episode of that's, the ticket Dan Analysis Bonus Series on the vice presidential selection process. It's right here in the pods America feeds or check it out. An excellent series. Sat. It's over and hear something exciting on tuesdays amiss
descended Abdul Alcide will interview Anthony factually himself, I'm sure the White House, thrilled he'll, be undercut media pot. So
so don't mess. It will be playing a few clip from the interview later on in this shall check it out. Yeah, maybe don't tell him, but I guess too late well, we'll say will say
right. So we're gonna talk about the new white has offensive against the federal government's most trusted public health official in a bit, but first
we gotta talk about Trans decision to commute writer stones, entire prison sentence.
As you may remember, stone is trumps friend in long time. Political adviser who was convicted by a jury of
seven felonies that included lying to Congress and witnessed hampering, but on the other hand, stone refused to provide evidence to federal prosecutors. The trump may have committed perjury in his written answers to Special Council Robert Mahler, so as a reward trump saw to it that stone doesn't have to serve a day.
Of his forty one sentence, and on Friday the waiters released a press statement that ended quote register
A free man, exclamation point. Even a few republican senators criticized this decision with Mitt Romney, calling it quote: unprecedented historic corruption. In tat to me, conservatives senator from Pennsylvania pointing out that stone was convicted based on an investigation conducted by a Republican, lead committee. Tommy. I put this in the category of not surprising but still shocking. I won't
was your reaction? How big a deal of this yeah me? I think, quoting Dan Pfeiffers Eyes, hero is mentor. Mitt Romney is right and it is pretty historic. Corruption
Rodger stone was convicted of obstructing a congressional investigation, five counts of making false statements to Congress and tampering with a witness. He committed those crimes to hide the truth about a foreign government efforts to help get his boss, Donald Trump elected and then Trump use the power of the press
see to absolve him. So that's it. That's a pretty big deal, freebie corruption of our entire process. As you mentioned, JANET
specifically it we're talking about is the fact that Trump clearly knew
I'd stones are reached wikileaks and had your knowledge about the email dumps that were coming Michael Cohen, I said he overheard Trump in stone. Talk about Wikileaks, Pollyanna Forts had Trump personally told him to stay in touch with stone about Wikileaks. Oh, this is pretty well documented, but when winter
asked about this- is written answers to mother said I don't recall any such conversations about iraqi light. So from the beginning,
the investigation, stone and trumpet
signalling that they would cover up for each other. Stone said something very soon
Also the media, like I will
ever roll on Donald Trump is, I believe, one of the quotes and then in twenty eight
in Trump by return, the favor
tweeting. It's nice to know that some people still have guts when he refused to cooperate, and so here we are trumpet
removed from office from Peach stone is a free man, I'm sure he'll be hands.
They rewarded with some book deal or tv contractor a job in the campaign, but, broadly speaking, this is also part of a pattern. Jackals methods
Vessel Harbour LAW wrote a peace where he argues that thirty one thirty six individuals Trump has pardoned or given a commutation had some sort of perks, personal or political benefit, so is completely using that process in the justice system for his own personal gain, and that is a big deal even if we are exhausted by him years at this level. Would you think this sort of, via the stir sort of a throwback to all the crimes and corruption of
twenty seventeen and twenty eighty and eighty nine now so Roger says quite publicly owned
over again. You know, please pardon me, please keep my sentence. I didn't turn on. You
and it would have been much easier. If I did, he actually says both party has just said in turn on your right. There's an interpretation of it
turn on you, which is
suggest, maybe in it you know, there's some defence, that's along the lines of theirs.
Witch hunt against you and I didn't play along, but when he said
It would have been much easier for himself
not turn, and you what is really saying as if I had admitted what I done, I might have been able to to get out of jail time. I might have been able to turn on you and cop to some of the crimes, the many many crimes that were alleged to have committed together. As of this moment, there are multiple conversations: private conversations between Roger Sown and Donald Trump that we don't know what was discussed
right, we have implications of our discuss. We have set
an account of what might have been discussed. We know what their behaviors were around. Those calls that Donald Trump Talk to register
and then said: oh there's gonna be a basically like oak great,
I'm coming down the pike, can't wait, you know, but
This is a successful efforts to prevent us from knowing what happened in the relationship between
Roger Stone and Donald Trump. It is a successful cover up and its agent.
Lost than anybody that Michael Cohen, is getting gettin sent back to jail, because
fuckin moron, who is like getting tacos in refusing to not get a big deal truly. My number
idiocy, but Roger
go current, who turns on tramp in some way ends up back in June.
Roger Stone held out is rewarded for it and that's the message he's sending and it
It happens over the course of a few days in which we have us.
In court ruling. That says, while we are entitled to trumps, taxes in theory and practice is above the law in which build bar has
clearing house in the eastern District in New York and the southern district envying York in in India,
he is well, so you know it has been a terrible week for the rule of law, terrible just tat.
I mean like we were used to trump using. You know pardons in commutation to help us friends out, like that's nothing new at this point, even though it is deeply corrupt. This is the first time he's done it to actually reward someone. Who's helped cover up one of them.
Residents potential crimes, the judge who set in stone, Amy, Berman Jackson, said this. During the sentencing she said quote, he was not prosecute.
For standing up for the president, he was prosecuted for covering up for the President and Geoffrey to be noted that this is worse than anything that Nixon did even Nixon. Didn't pardner commute the sentences of any one who could have impulse.
To him in the water did scandal. He had thought about. It realised that was too far because it could be politically damaging for him. One react.
Into the commutation, came from Robert Mahler himself, who broke a sound
over the weekend in Washington, Post editorial, where he made clear that stone quote remains a convict
Phelan, and rightly so. So we haven't heard like a word from Mahler since the end of the investigation. Tell me why do you think he chose to speak up now?
Because you know, Bob Dollar gets the current media environment and I think, to our beds,
two years is the way to combat a president who attacks you in your investigation every day I dont know
he's very old. They did a horrible job messaging. This it is, you know, fucked up,
the entire understanding among the country about this process? Its deeply frustrating- and it makes me want to
dream. I want to offer one quibble with my friend Mitt Romney, who I did quarter earlier, that this is unprecedented people, forget the George, W Bush, Pardon Casper Wine Burger former sex
defence for their role in the IRAN Contra scandal. There are five of them in that probably helps prevent them from testify against Bush or Reagan. So this shit has happened before and its growth
but yeah I mean I read the bed, I'm glad it's out there, it's just so frustrating it so deserting it's stood up as do nothing commander.
But he stop riding up ads. They do nothing. Robber mauler got bad at around. He got
bad around by bill bar. He got bad at around by Donald Trump, and you know his
bad. This is this. This great defence,
says you know well. He was right like he'd like as, if he's he sort of standing up for the principles of the investigation standing up for the conclusions of the
the Mulder report, as if there's some kind of them.
Parliamentary debate, some kind of like
intellectual exercise over time. That's going to determine the effectiveness of his probing sort of writing for
history in some way. Meanwhile, we left with one region
which is the election, because the guard rails around the rule of law have failed. They just failed. We should stop there not fail
they're, not letting
down. They have failed and that's that
This is a successful covered up. This one worked. That's it. I use my life
From twenty sixteen to today, law enforcement-
National security officials have proven to have catastrophically bad judgment when it comes to political and communications matters. Leave it to someone.
Talking to you James coming, I mean
the Epp, Ed Lindsey Gram, who had previously rejected request from democratic centres to have more testify in front a judiciary says he will now grant that request. I mean
I don't know what's going on there, I dont know what good it does having Mahler come before the judiciary. I don't know if, like Graham wants this, because now he wants, do you know cross, examined him and try to discredit the whole Mahler investigation, and I think that's a good move for him. I don't know like Democrats will be able to get him ass. They would ever like. The question I have is like. Is this
This is obviously a horrible thing that happened over the weekend, where sort of already moved on to another new story, even though the president basically just commute the sense of someone
reward for not
allocating him in a cry like as bad as it gets. But, like is this an issue
Joe Biden or the Democrats should be talking about in the campaign trail from now to November, or is this year we feel we should we be just talking about. You know the pandemic and the recession and sort of the big issues there are effect
in people's lives. I am willing to be like. I don't think it's a very tough question. I am simply
to those who want an activist democratic.
Congressional response that is ongoing in reality. I do think,
Often the the criticism is not that things aren't taking place right now, but that there hasn't been a kind of steady drumbeat,
ongoing never knew no, basically never letting Trump score goal, never letting anything by for the past year and a half and their frustrations with the way in which oversight has been conducted. Obviously
but you know, I look at Essen and I
I view is, there is basically three things we have to do, there's one defeating Trump and the election. Obviously there is too after he is gone
on resisting the very, very powerful urge driven by Republicans and even some Democrats to move forward, not the back. We need to focus on the next midterms major me to focus on meeting potatoes issues. This can be a great pool towards not looking backwards. We need to.
Resistant to that, it makes where there's a process set up to go back through and investigate the crimes and corruption in malfeasance and cover ups.
Of the trunk administration and as part of that three there's gonna need to be a robust effort to look at some of the
holes in our system that Trump was able to drive a Mack truck thrill and start closing them around
disclosures around the ways in which the present is allowed to intervene in the Justice Department is going to be a bunch of reforms that are needed and we need to make sure we pursue those reforms. What
do in the next three to four months before the election,
I'm not, I'm not totally sure what the best course of action is, but I do think our mind should be completely focused on the politics completely focused on what it will do to affect our chances
yeah, I wonder of grandma's, just tweeting it till showed to Trump as there on the golf course together or afforded to him later, but
I feel strongly. The Democrats should never ever again talk about impeachment on a campaign trail there is considered
evidence that swing. Voters hate it. I think it's partisan, they don't want to hear about it. It turns them off, it can backfire. I would never use that word again. I do think you can talk to voters about the fact that Donald Trump Pledge to drain the swamp and he's actually made a corrupt system. Far worse he's rewarded. His family he's reward. His cronies he's a reward. His donors, you can lay out a bunch of evidence that can include pardons and commutations for those people. I agree with love it like post election. We got to look back at what happened
a bit figure on all the holes and fix them? But I don't wanna, hear impeachment ever on the campaign. Trail yeah. I agree, and I also think that sort of like talking about rule of law sounds a little esoteric to most people. I mean, I think, we're this fits in. The larger sort of campaign message is this is yet another example of Trump only focusing on himself his interests, his ego, how to take care of him and not focusing on you as the whole countries falling apart. Ali cares about making sure his buddy doesn't go to jail. Meanwhile, there's like
thirteen thousand people applying for clemency, for you know in jail for non violent drug offences, and he doesn't give a shit about them. But if you're
you're stone and you protected Donald Trump. You get what you gotta get out of jail freak art. So you know it's one small point, but I agree. I don't think it's going to be the biggest issue and I think that people watching a whole bunch more hearings, Mahler testifying. I think it's gonna go sort of like right over people's heads.
Is there trying to grapple with fair once in a lifetime pandemic? So right
the house was bragging about freeing a convicted criminals who covered up the president's crimes. They were also Orkut
a head job on the countries most trusted public health, official doktor, Anthony Faulty. That's right. The way house is anonymously. Sending reporters opposition research unfortunate points out some of his earlier comments about the virus that he made before we knew as much about it as we do now in the White House is doing this because Turkey has been giving interviews where he tells the truth about the pandemic like when he said on a five thirty, eight podcast quote when you compare in other countries, I don't think you can say we're doing.
I mean we're. Just not trump reportedly haven't spoken to focus in June and sit on Hannity last week. That he's quote a nice man, but he's made a lot of mistakes Tommy. Why would the president and his team openly attack the countries most trusted public health official in the meat
of a pandemic. The big picture reason is that their impossibly stupid
and it is part of a pattern where they would attack people. I colonel VIN men during a peach band, others who worked for them but like that, this specific reason for faulty is
I ve been your time CN. Nepal showed that sixty seven percent of voters trust vouched for information about the corona virus.
And then a delight ABC Poor
showed a sixty seven percent disapproval of trumps handling of the corona virus right. So
trump. Despite all evidence that the responses failing is still pursuing the strategy where they pretend the virus is going away and foul G telling the truth in interviews, even though they have lock those down and installed from crony to make sure he doesn't do a lot of interviews in May,
That argument harder. They also have a personal grudge against him. He's popularity is respected and Trump is not in that upsets from personally, and you know it just their petty people. A touch of media criticism here, like out of context, quotes
fatty in February or January, when we knew literally nothing about the virus, the novel
corona virus, Khazars Brenda, that's hardly interest
the news to me, as at the White House, is doing this I wouldn't published.
Misleading attack like that on background, say it on the record or blow these people like you, you don't have to take this on background or honour some off the record agreement
these people. That is the news of this publish. Who said it tell us who is doing this? That's more interesting
Obviously, this is dangerous to discredit Fouche II in the middle of a pandemic is repugnant, but just from like a pure political standpoint, like imagine, if Trump decided to hug faulty and be like this guy super respected entrusted in the country by people in both parties bypass President's people seem to like him. I'm gonna stand with him at these briefings and he's gonna sort of lead the nation through this and I'll just shut up and he's the expert like that would help trump politically. Yes,
it's some pretty self destructive, which obviously, as insult to injury, because he's doing everything for its own benefit, but can only thinking kind of twenty four hour increments and me we went through in part because the work that is required of president does not pay dividends even on something like this right away. There could be PR victories, but whether it's you know securing
masks and you, the reagents and whatever you need for testing building up our capacity to test building up contact tracing putting in place plans over time. Over the past,
six months to make sure schools ready. None of these produce an immediate new cycle benefits we doesn't, he beat devaluing doing it for even a second,
what he does see value doing is we went through.
Is to blame new cycle. It's it's! The whew hon virus they're, the ones responsible. Then we went through.
The age old new cycle, right, we're, gonna, pull out of the debate, showed they're. The ones to blame now run up a thousand
Cycle and what's ironic, as you know, you read that quote from found she about our response,
and an end, even in that quotas
measured language, you know, I would not say we're doing great, whatever the kind of
measure tone. He take. I think, there's a big criticism that you can level against Anthony found. She is that he has been to deferential to the church,
administration, in order to maintain his position in order to continue to be
in the place where he thinks he needs to be added to the most good for the country
even now, he's would have you know. Tommy
pointed out. You know he did they ve got these going preventing from doing tv interviews. You know, I don't think that they're wrong they're not shackled
the rest I mean I think,
proud. She is starting to kind of Bristol at the bride.
That the administration has put on him, but I think he's
be doing more. I think you should be speaking out even more and yeah. You know this isn't
what he should be doing. You can look across the country, governors that have made mistakes, governors who have done a good job, the one
that I think, are in the best political standing are the ones who have simply said from the beginning. I mean to defer to my experts, yeah
I mean look it's a good question about like what, if your tony vote you? What do you do now right? Because you know the White House can jump Amy that he does he's an employee of the federal government. Has bosses are in the White House? He is a civil servants. Oats, it's not like Trump can just fire him,
no I'm sure he tried to find a way. But you know like how do you? How do you think you use your voice? I mean he's out there basically telling the truth right now, he's not highly critical of Donald Trump he's telling the truth about the stated the pandemic, which is that we're not doing great. This is the big sin to the White House right, because the wife s mess
down from its messages: everything's fine, what you seeing isn't really happening. Everyone whose telling you we shouldn't reopen faster they're, just worry wards and public health experts
now these liberals- and I don't want me to win elections- I just want to reopen the contributing- is going to be fine. This whole thing is going to go away. So the fact that Tony vouches out there telling the truth, which is that we are screwed right now, is so bad that they want to muzzle him and now attack him. So if your phone,
She like what he. What do you do? I mean he reportedly wants to see. The vaccine
access through to the end which, if that's
RO motivation. Here, I'm cool with it, then stick around show
when you gotta shut up talk, we need to talk he's office,
things like yeah localities, might need to lock down again if cases surge locally. That's me is unimportant,
message. I really do wish people were hearing that because I dont think let I be a lot of resistance
at this point, so I see how hard it is to bounce those things. I don't know. I think the story
the corona virus pandemic and in the weights being handled this kind of telling itself, when you see like fifteen thousand nuke
says on Sunday in Florida as they open up fuckin,
the world or whatever. So I'm a little less worried about the messaging at this point that I was early on during these task forces. I do really worried about the execution of some of the treatments, the vaccine, all the things happening behind the scenes that we don't you
yeah and I do think you're a time you like if he it. You know tony veggie being there for the vaccine development, the treatment developments, the roll out like if he can, from a substantive point of you, forget about the message, help make that process more effective and safe, whatever I'm happy with him being there and speaking out when he can of of uncas about it but the licence.
The patent for the for the vaccine, for not careful so yeah we need some party. America is brought to you by policy genius.
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So we mention this earlier, but you can hear Abdul Alcides Interview with doktor on tomorrow's America, dissected podcast, here's a clip from that conversation. How do you in the face of politicization
by a president. How do you maintain a focus on the public's health and how do you
a line that allows you to maintain integrity to the science
also staying away from some of the explicit politics. With the moment I know,
you, your colleagues haven't done it nearly as well as you have so you know, what's the secret
then the other question is, however, just at some point wanted to throw your hands up and
walk away, and you say you know what at this point, like I'm done with this,
no, not really because I think that if the
She was at hand, is so important
walking away from it is is not the solution. I think that we just made things worse
well. What I, when I try to do- and I am- and I have really been successful, as you say, I'm I'm
now. Advise six separate presents all very
different individuals also
from different perspectives, but also being being
an administration or a presidency at
In times in our history, which required you know,
types of approaches in own
nine eleven was very
if it with the anthrax, attacks the Pandemic flu and Ebola and Zika, and now cover nineteen,
the thing that I've done, I've been able to six.
Lastly, navigate sometime
These very choppy waters is stick,
here, too, the science don't ever let any thing,
even smacks slightly of any ideology get in the way you gotta just stick with the science press.
advice recommendations, and what have you based
evidence and science, and if that
something that is political, then then don't get involved in any of that. Just continue to stick with the science and
it works. It really does so
check out more on tomorrow's America detected of of adults, interview with that with doktor folksy.
So even if the president was busy trashing factually this weekend, he also decided to mask in public for the first time during a trip to Walter Reed Medical Center Trump told reporters before he left for the trip quote. I've never been against masks, but I do believe they have a time and a place when you're in a hospital, especially trumps campaign staff, immediately took the twitter to praise their bosses decision to. Finally, where mask posting the photo with comments like hash
America. First Joe Biden is finished and good night, Joe Biden level. What you think is Joe Biden Finish now that dumb from formats
We know there. Many airports that are they print out, proud Trump tweets for him, so that he can see
So this is a these are true,
for an audience of one they're. Gonna print them out show to the buzz is a real em like now
the lane in the bird. Obviously, this incredibly serious since its both on the facts,
front and on this front, the fact that we are debating this is again how trumps ego sort of swallows up our politics right. Look when will trump, where a mask
entry level based
thing you should have done months ago, it's disgusting, but there is this, like Nathan Lane and the bird cage thing of like.
I'm not going out there. Looking like this. Look at me, I look ridiculous with his costume on I'm not gonna. Put this mask on what you mean. They're waiting to see me well.
Do it. I guess, but only if the chorus boys are with me, beautiful men, military men put them in the masks too, and then then we'll go out there and will put on a show, for there are no love their loved to they love it. They are. They love the show I put up with my big brawny military man and our masks. That's the guy.
Appear in tablets to help you care for the relative. My eye
I mean I just understand homes was to perform under these conditions. I do need appear in tablet. Tommy thank you are very good at the Rio summit,
I did underrated movie.
Guys couldn't see without you blinking. I help me in Morse Code throughout the trucks and make sure you watch it at night,
I mean it's so funny re like a congrats, you did the bare minimum you
around a hospital full of wounded troops with a mask on what effect
here, our first at the girl.
Obligated to tweet about how coolly he I'd speaks to the depth of this man's depravity and
How is it so sad if you done it
to go, things could have been different. It's just expect so frustrating. It's also frustrating endlessly frustrating to me that the political world, including politicians and the press, are the ones, are shaping the boundaries of this debate. Talking about how Nasser politicized they aren't, they shouldn't be, everyone can wear them.
I'll, be fine. It's just exactly the idea that trumpeting Mascarenhas, what's going to injure buttons campaign, is also aware. I feel like the his staffers our bit out of touch
we are going to US ranch, you mean
You tell me that you don't think Boris Epstein has his finger on the pulse from his Sinclair recording booth.
It's just you re, like me, taught heap he pole,
eyes, the electorate with this bullshit three or four months ago, by attacking mass and making fun of masks and mocking in doing all that other kind of stuff- and you know if he had done it, then what you know. Maybe we wouldn't be having you know, infections, sky,
rocket in some of these states right now, when, instead of like having anti mask activists out their protesting, putting a piece of fucking cloth over your face, thanks to the press,
it's not just him that way there that it's not just him right, TED carousing day on an airplane, refusing to wear a mass Jim Jordan refused
to wear a mass. The there we ve seen republican leaders republican politician.
Across the country. At a this weekend, events this weekend in big rooms crowded with people refusing to wear masks. You know it will be an important question that we answer
over time by the United States was so vulnerable to this virus. When other countries were able to control it, but man, it's not just
drop. It is a toxic republican.
Reaction to just basic decency and courtesy and and compassion for fellow human beings. It is a rearguard-
action against humanity is what it is.
I am sorry about the Nazi vitiate recovery. The Trump administration has promised us
only a few months ago, the Jared Kirshner talked about his hope that quote by July, the countries really rocking again, not so much
but we still have double digit unemployment and over the last week several major american companies have announced plans to live tens of thousands of workers, some of his due to the pandemic.
Worse again. According to one estimate by Goldman Sachs Quote more than seventy percent of the country has either paused a reversed opening plans,
Congress is about to start negotiating this week and next over the next unlikely final round of economic relief before the election, and I ve got a tight timeline. Unemployment benefits expire at the end of the month. Nancy policies that over the weekend, the benefits must be extended. The Republicans in the White House have been opposed to extending the extra six in rebellion per week, benefit that most workers are getting rich Mcconnell, so that its primary objective is liable to be protections for corporations, so that
can't get sued if their employees come back to work and get sick with covered Tommy. How much leverage the Democrats have here in these negotiations and how much room for compromise do think there should be. I think Democrats have a lot of leverage, but it's very hard to know what the actual Whitehouse position, as because of you,
about what nuke in thinks it seems a little more reason ball, but as we are recording this tweet
went around our slack where Larry,
cut low, is calling for a payroll tax holiday, returned to work bonuses and a capital gains holiday, so just a pause for a second. No
need the cap gains holiday. You don't need to sell your stock now and in just walk away. A return to work bonus seems like the opposite
helpful, because it will incentivize going back to work and being around people in getting sick. So that part is frustrating, but look. The responses
disaster is getting worse in the economic pain has been delayed for
families, because of their response by congress- and you know
At this point, words about to expire in July, thirty first in administration, is in the position of mismanaging the virus and then failing to fix the economy for the rest of the year, and that is untenable for them, because obviously the two or are connected. So you know the cynical piece of that is your political reported that laid off workers in twenty
any battleground states may be hurt the most when these six hundred dollar per week, unemployment insurance boost, expires states like Pennsylvania, Michigan in Florida, some of the highest unemployment numbers in that country, and they will see a three billion per week reduction when it goes away. So Democrats should be fighting for
extra money they should fight for an extended stimulus. I wanna see unemployment insurance extensions that our general
and also automatically extended until some you know, fair target is met. The indicates a recovery is ongoing so that Mitch Mcconnell can't shut off the spigot. If Joe Biden is elected, I also
The suggestion that business
is deserved. Blanket liability until twenty twenty four that's the Mitchell Mcconnell proposal is crazy,
We cannot allow businesses to force workers into unsafe environments. We ve seen it in factories in Europe, chicken processing plants and all kinds of places already they can't allow that to happen. We should fight tooth and nail for this Duffy's like. I think I really think workers will get it if you make this case. This is pretty obvious,
love it when you think yeah? I agree with that. I think we need to fight him.
Sure that look alike
of our crisis has been born of the fact that the government is always treating it like it's about to be over in two months now can be over in two months now can be over six months. Pie knock me over in a year, so we should be open to compromise in part, because it is so desperate that we get people relief we have about.
Of moratoriums on evictions that are about to expire, we have this
urgency relief, the six hundred dollars a month, s about to expire, there's a ton of
small businesses that will just be.
We hanging on and hour
looking at a year of hardship and pain, and probably not
to be able to survive it and may decide to shut their doors. A lot of this is gonna hit all at once, and it's going to be. If jobs
They can become president in
credible mess that he inherit. So if you look at something like yes, oh yes, you need like triggers,
to make sure that relief can continue. Even if there's a demo
president and Republicans all of a sudden, decide that they no longer believe in helping people again. But you are
We need to make sure that we don't do things like capital gains tax holiday, which would not only do nothing except us provide a huge windfall
some of the richest people in our society, but it will take us-
huge amount of taxable money out of this?
system and we're going to need to raise revenue to kind of do some of the big ticket items that the better democratic,
restoration with a democratic Senate and Democratic House what to do next year. So here we have the sort of just hold both the line on anything that will hamstring a Democrat
in a situation or the economy next year. Yet I mean just from a political standpoint. I think this fight is incredibly important to have over the next few weeks and will shape a lot of the fall campaign, partly because you know we have talked many times about how the only thing that's keeping trump in this race is this perception by the electorate that he is still stronger on the economy that he can manage the recovery that he some fuckin businessman that can get us back to where we were and all that kind of stuff. And we know that what hurts that image is this idea that Trump is for his rich friends and corporations and that Joe Biden, the Democrats actually fighting for working class, middle class, poorer Americans and this fight has to be sort of depicted. As the perfect example of how each side is fighting for- and I mean you could have a starker difference
between Mitch Mcconnell, whose top priority is to make sure that companies are protected so that they can force workers to go back to work, even if they get sick and not be held accountable if their workers get sick and the Democrats, who want to make sure that workers can continue to get unemployment benefits, plus that six hundred dollar extra benefit if they have to stay home through no fault of their own, they are all talking about getting rid of the six hundred dollar benefit. You take
way, six hundred dollars per week from millions and millions of workers who are getting that? What do you think's going to happen to the economy when all these businesses are still closed and more businesses are closing because the virus is taking hold in more states, monies gonna come out of the economy that can be less money to spend, there's gotta, be more job loss and end the recessions going to deepen, and so like. I think that you know this shouldn't just be a fight in Congress. I think Joe Biden should be involved in this too. I think every leader, the Democratic Party, should make very clear. The Democrats are going to stand up for recovery that helps the middle class that makes it safe to go to work that helps. Workers first and Republicans are fighting for the corporations. One of four
people back to work before it safe to do so? It just seems like this is a big big fight and, like it ain't, no, it's pretty obvious where each side should be yes, Alec American workers were overpaid. Before the pandemic. Great, I mean about half of american home renters before the pandemic were spending more than thirty percent of their income on housing, which puts them at a really scary tipping point and its also not about money, because the stock,
get is rallying in an absurd, a rational way, because the FED is spending
billions of dollars to prop up there
literally buying corporate bonds, Apple G Comcast, thereby corporate bond each yes, that is
helping all these stock owners and our
for in cap gain sex all day. The debt is not saw our friend
asked Ngos, be former colleague, did a study at the University of Chicago that found the fear of infection and
not the lock down is what drove the economic contraction in the spring that that, I think, is the case. The Joe Biden needs to make you need to tie the pandemic response to the economic response there not separate, they can't be separated and that's what how I think Biden can really chip away at trumps numbers
business stuff, the economic means, handling of the economy, etc, etc, is by really make in that case, to cover the quick point in this one. There's also just incredible perverse part of this debate, which is
Republicans like Mcconnell Lindsey, Graham others, saying that the reason there against this six hundred dollars is because a disincentive vices work, because in some cases, people might end up with a little bit more and more money than they would have gotten from their jobs, as if
right now, there's jobs for people to go back to as if right now we're in this great economy were going to refuse to go back to work sick, it's a it's perverse because they have no compunction about giving money to all kinds of businesses, all kinds of rich people, that's a sickness to one of the democratic priorities.
Around schools. I talked about this with Kai Henderson today, but you note Donald
is fighting to reopen schools, we're not talking enough about it, and I think anything Democrats can do to say they're trying to help schools locally, get them resources. Get them help make up for the fact that there is no real plan from the government is really important.
And just one other small piece about all of this? Is that big
as this may last such a long time, the company's best able to whether it are going to be some of the biggest corporations in America and a process that was already happening
in slow motion the kind of shift to big businesses, the shift away from small companies,
is going to accelerate that incredibly dangerous, because small companies create the character of our cities, they create the character of our communities and that kind of sapping of that sort of part of our culture of that part of our car.
It is incredibly financially dangerous, but it also just something that I think Democrats you to talk about more yeah. I I agree with your point on
that, like you know, from Joe Biden and I'm putting up my economic plan point number. One of a five point plan is to help boost the economy, fix the virus. Stop the virus, like you, ve gotta, connect the two and, by the way, that's what people are doing. The fact that job right and is winning in these poles, even though people still think trumpets better on the economy, is because the main issue for people is the virus, not just because of their health, because the vote would they know that the virus is also stopping the economy from getting back to normal. So I do, and I think that when the Democrats negotiate this like, I know they're gonna try to negotiate in good faith and if they get a great deal
important to move forward on that deal because that's just going to actually help people who are really hurting, but I would not they have almost all the leverage here. I will not give up too much because if they end up in a fight where Miss Mcconnell said now, I'm just not going to extend that six hundred dollars. That's my final offer, but I will and extend unemployment benefits and general like.
I wouldn't take that deal because I would go. I would say that I'm gonna go to the american people in November and say Republicans rather give corporations more tax cuts and the ability to make workers go back to work even when it's not safe than to give six hundred dollars more week to people who are struggling with
call me take that to the voters and also learn love it. I'm really glad you did the interview on the question of reopening schools today, because you know look again: people were working full time, jobs and and couldn't make ends meet anyway. What happens if their kids good king could a school there have to pay extra for child care,
because the kids are home in schools are closed. I mean this is so blind to the reality of what is happening in the country right now, and it is so needlessly.
Cool that I do think like not only like. Not only do we have a political advantage to fight this, but I actually think that we are going to get to an outcome if Mitch Mcconnell has his way, that's harmful to the country, to the recovery effort to all of the above, and it's just it's not worth,
doing something that is harmful are when we come back, we will have love. It's conversation with pod, save the people's kind
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She is the former Chancellor DC public schools and co host of crooked media's pod, save the people with new episodes, every Tuesday Kyar Henderson, welcome to the pod thanks
I'm excited to be here. Thank you. Thank you were doing us out
but I think a lot of people myself included. I don't have kids and lucky for them that don't exist
but I've been just so overwhelmed by the news about schools. It seems so
So in raging, it is so sad to see this kind of
slow motion crisis coming towards us in the fall, because you know you know better than
when how much is on the line for these kids for the teachers for their parents,
No, this interview is happening in a week, die
we needed by stories and controversy.
Around reopening Donald Trump has begun, threatening schools to reopen. You ve been somebody
Obviously you you're an expert in schools. You have contributed to blueprints for how to reopen school safely.
What does it look like to you to bring students back into schools in a responsible way? Well, I mean
responsible. The question is: who did
to define responsible.
The challenge here is that this
situation, where everybody's point of view is actually quite valid, weather
as a parent. You want to send your kid to school, or you want to keep your kid home both
are really valid perspectives, if you're, a teacher whether you want to
back to school, or you are worried about your safety and would prefer to stay home or maybe you live.
With somebody who is amino compromise and so you're worried about what might both those are valid.
If you are a district leader, for example, on the one hand you wanna keep your our young people as safe as possible, and you know that
every minute that they are missing. Not just instruction
the Socialists nation that happens in schools? The exposure that's happening in schools is
really critical, and we know that we're gonna literally lose generations of kids
as a result of this, like all of these are valid viewpoints, and I think
the challenge around responsible opening is there is no perfect answer right. So how
We get it as right as we possibly can. I think the way
Do that is making sure that people have protection,
making sure that we're thinking about how we maximize space differently think about classrooms differently. Think about the deployment
of our human capital, our talent in different ways,
there is an opportunity to to create different options for young people and families
You might have the option if you wanna go a hundred percent virtual. That should be an option for families who want to do that
and we should also have an in school option for families who need to. I mean there are some families who literally we're about reopening the economy,
I go to work if they don't have a place to send their young people
and so I think the problem
here is one of the most perplexing decisions to make as a large
urban superintendent, at least in the northeast, is snow days right
Today's our kind of a damned if you do damned, if you don't situation,
and this is one of those situations where there is no right answer and so what kind
We do that is
responsible that is safe and that meets the needs of a lot of different stakeholders. I think, as a question at where all wrestling with
me: does he know that that, from what I've seen from a number of at least the bigger school districts that there's this bound
between some amount of online learning, some in person, learning smaller classes shifts that sort of thing, but even that I I guess it s sort of two questions. One is how much do you worry that that solution is inadequate, just for the kids to get a good at
patient. You do worry about that. I mean. Even that is not the full education that that we want our children have read. It is absolutely inadequate. I mean, if you think,
a regular school year. It's a hundred and eighty days and its roughly six to seven hours a day of instruction. Now I'm-
Santa every single moment is absolutely maximized, but it is
far more than what wicked
I getting now in the distance learning environment, because this was an emergency response to a global pandemic. We were set up to do this.
At most many of our school districts are only giving kids two or three
hours of instruction a day in some key
it is not even a day, and so, when you think about our young people, who are already behind or are
it'll learners where learning how to read and doom Hath and build Foundation
our skills there's just no way that a couple of hours a day and
an environment that none of us, our culture, aided really too to operate in is the right answer,
for academic success, it just is not, but we are
No, that you can't put three thousand kids in a school building or a hundred kids in a school buildings or again, I think people are doing the best they can with what they have. How do we bring as many kids back on our rotational basis as possible? How do we think differently about using our best teachers to reach even
more kids. But you know one of the challenges is not all of us,
Kids are logging on. There was an article in a lay times of a little bit of go about four,
percent of kids in L, a unified school district had not logged on since the beginning of distance learning
And so those kids- we don't know where they are. We don't know what is happening to them and ask not a recipe for academic success, and it seems like
it be nice to be able to not dwell on all the ways in which this is terrible, but it is not. You know, I do think it's horrible, but but you know what
what you immediately imagine is: ok parents with
incomes, families with doing
comes that have more flexibility, families with me.
Games that have more flexibility. They can figure out ways to make this work, but the kids that need school.
Absolute most. They need
the most? Are the ones that are gonna be the least able to do online learning least able to make it work that they're going to days a week
I don't know where they're supposed to go the other three days a week, one thousand seven hundred and five days a week that that is absolutely right.
In all of the ways that America is unequal, this is you
situation where the wealthy people we'll figure it out. They have me
since they have flexibility. You know I see wealthy people were pulling their kids out of school period and hiring tutor
or you know paying a college student, a common man
not only distance learning but no other
supplemental activities, I see you know.
All kinds of innovative solutions that are happening from people with means, but the war-
King mother, who has three kids or the working parents said. You know in many cases, even duel
Families can hack this situation and we are not doing we.
We have decided to prioritize a whole bunch of other things before we prioritize America
his children and America's families, so
Obviously, you know we all talk about the light
leadership are the opposite of leadership that come from the president. That's coming from that's he D lost sector that
occasion. Obviously a lot of what school districts are dealing with is solving and unsolvable problem, because the work was done in advance. The things that could have been done to set make plans help schools prepare just didn't happen. Nobody did it if
you know, you are advising the Secretary of Education with any kind of competence, certain compassion for children whose actually kind of engage in this fight
who belong in the job and buy it like it was
we're seats at a sporting event that I
names. I dont know what to say tat if the house
You know I've seen one of those sites where you can yell at the rats
that's what budget Austrian, if you wanted to see where she could yell at the rest,.
If you are advising that secretary education, what would be yard or if you were, that Secretary of Education, when my
if you are doing that, job. What which hitherto I mean.
This is what is so baffling to me. John, is: if we like, we
have decided that bars and restaurants and gems and tat too parlors opening.
More important than schools opening and
I just don't understand how, in good conscience, we make that decision as a country. I work in international education space as well, and other countries, people are prioritizing getting schools open because its critical to your, not a short term economy,
to your long term economy, and so you know, I hope, if I was secretary of Education, that I will be working for a president who I didn't have to explain that to,
that, in fact our number one priority would be getting.
Schools open, not just getting schools open and- and this is I mean- I will tell you- I have experience in this right. I was cheers.
Of DC public schools when Deasey Public School
was and still is under, may oral control? We were
no longer governed by an elected school board. We reported directly to the mayor and we were able to turn
district around in part because we reported,
directly to the mayor, I was able to
to the mayor and say anything from I need help with bill
things I need help with nurses? I need help with whatever and the mayor would
Lloyd the city's resources to schools. First, the mayor took the the Arctic.
Yet, who was designing the baseball stadium right, which is
Google is alien dollar project right and said and said
baseball stadium is not more important than schools. This guy
crushing and on the baseball stadium may rest in Peace Alamo, I'm takin him off
sport Stadium, because we should be crushing and schools I want
apartment of health to help Kyar think about how we provide help
services in our schools. I want the department of
the invitation to go pick up the garbage yesterday, I ll have to worry about that. I want them to work
teaching and learning and the
and the mayor I worked for three consecutive mayors and each one of
three mayors pray
retired schools in ways that had never happened before, and so we were able to turn around what was the lowest performing urban school district in the country in part, because the
Zackie it? Just like the press?
that should praise
it, has schools and put the cities
resources the same way. We should be putting the country's resources against schools.
As the number one priority
its heartbreaking, because you know the president refuses to worm,
ass their stories now that he may, where mass we have a sector education to be disconnected from these issues and
You know: there's all these videos of euro people refusing to where mass is kind of. Like churn of this political battle, we,
July. There still two months till school. If we had an actual president actual secondary education, saying hey
America, we have two months to do everything we can to get our kids back.
School. We had two months to save the ball back of Europe
in organizing would be an optimistic fight up other summits, mass our
about stopping something right it something that could help us protect ourselves can protect our kids. It makes me sick
They are even have a question of distant rage and enraged
I'm enraged about it. I mean raised with you John One, though I will say hats off to governors and mayors who are trying to
figure it out absence the federal leadership role that could be happening right now.
But I want to say that is not just about what the
are and are doing like this.
Actually a all of us are responsible for this, and I think
something that Arnie Duncan our former Secretary of Education once said:
really made me stop in my tracks
and made me evaluate what we as Americans, really think about our young people, and he said if we,
and change gun, control laws after sandy hook like that taught me that,
You didn't care about America's kids. He he will say I thought America didn't care about
black and brown kids, because as long as those were the kids who are getting killed right, like nobody,
seem to want to do anything, but when we didn't do anything after white, kids in Connecticut were shot down. That made me very
clear that we don't care about our children in America,
every time he says that it appears to me to my heart, because we are
during that same exact, not just the feds all over.
Why aren't citizens? You know
demanding in a street that we
make sure in the same way that in war
Need you to do something different. We need you to make this, or do that or whatever. Why aren't we marshalling? Why are we telling everybody we need you to do something different
sure that these schools can accommodate as many young people as possible and that they are doing it safely
Teachers are safe and one that we have to reckon
with who we are ass, Americans on what we believe about our young people, so that thank you for I'll, bring it back to it.
Action, oriented and not just me, lamenting
a situation but burst
So you know you run a district you're you're involved in these plans. I think a lot of people feel a little bit hopeless right. They don't know what to do. They feel this coming
some have kids in their worried about their kids and trying to figure it out personally, some don't, but but our concern. What should people hearing this like if they wanted
whatever they can now in the next few months to make sure that the schools in their area are safe, that they have the plans in place. What would you urge people to be doing
I would urge people to talk to their elected a fish
Those right: local elected officials and statewide elected officials have the opportune,
need to bring whatever resources that they have to bear against this school problem, and I think, in lots of places,
is happening. I do think
You know where you know as media is interviewing, who were talking about all kinds of things,
in the same way that every time we ask some silly question, we should be asking: why haven't you arrested the police who shot Brianna Taylor? We should all,
so be asking. What are you doing to make sure that more and more young people can go back to school in a safe way? It is just a drum
that we as citizens have got to be priorities.
Everywhere we go if you're gonna, tweet Somethin tweet about what we need to do to me.
Open schools what we need to do to keep teacher safe. What we need to do to keep kid save what we need to do to keep parent save that is
question that we should be, we should be a cacophony, we're there's not room to answer any other question, but that one kind
send. Thank you. So much for being here
There are so many other things we should be talking about, but I really want you to some other important issues run it now. We should be talking about this, but I wanted to focus on this because you know it. It genuinely makes me really upset, because I feel like
It's a historic crisis, and you know we may get out of the corona virus in a year, but the kids who don't
the education now will not. They will not. They will be permanently punished by our failure
I just want to make sure that we keep our attention on that. Thank you, John. That's! Absolutely right
MRS De Keyser for joining us today and we'll talk to you guys later by everybody,
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