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We can even claim a free security camera for your system that simply safe dot com. Slash crooked, welcome the Plaza America I'm John forever on John Love. It Tommy before on today's PA, The by an administration faces a moment of truth over the escalating violence between Israelis and Palestinians. Doktor found she is here to channel love it about the CDC New Mass guidelines and we take it A few stories were watching closely this week, including the Philadelphia district attorney's, raise the Supreme Court's decision on a critical abortion rights case and the future of each hour, one but first check out the crooked store for them

great new additions like our faulty out she bandaid sets loved to do offer. Doktor Fashi an opportunity and TAT I didn't, and I'm glad I didn't John. I dont want to have to say that to him We also, of course you know. We have our on a mug presidential spouses mug. We now also have a new refill fragility The important thing about this is: you can feel good buying others march, knowing that a portion of every order goes to support, vote writers telling people across the country getting registered, but they do fantastic workshop. Now, a cricket, dot com, Slash store let's get the news, the violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians is one of the biggest stories in the world right now. It began last month majeure settlers, to expel six palestinian families from EAST Jerusalem, which led to protest. Which ultimately lead israeli police to conduct a raid on the Alex a mosque that left hundreds wounded.

Hamas militants in Gaza responded by firing. Rockets into Jerusalem is really primary your Benjamin Netanyahu responded by ordering air strikes against Gaza, where the death toll has now climb to at least two hundred and ninety two people, including fifty eight children in the occupied West Bank. Israeli forces have killed at least thirteen Palestinians and in Israel there have been at least ten deaths, including two children. One image, the capture, the world's attention over the weekend was the demolished building in Gaza, where the Associated Press and Al Jazeera worked. a building that was targeted by the israeli government. That they claim was shared by Hamas in addition to the violence between Hamas and he's really government there's also been some of the worst violence and unrest between Jews and Arabs inside of Israel in over two decades. Tell me that was my attempted, a quick summary of how we got here. What important context have I left up those actively the key events mean the little broader context. Last week, the israeli Supreme Court

supposed to rule on whether those families would be evicted from their homes and shake giraffe that help can bring it to the fore and make it a focal point in way Disputes in east Jerusalem are incredibly sensitive for a lot of reasons, especially because no any serious plan for a two state solution in visions, the palestinian capital, being in EAST Jerusalem, but a lot of right wing Israelis, including people Netanyahu government, want Israel to control all Jerusalem. Sir there's this concerted effort by settler organizations to evict some of these families is positive away from their homes, moved you settlers in it highlights all the unfair were raised, that the israeli law treats historical claims that land so that and got postponed, but it also coincided with an annual israeli holiday called Jerusalem day. They marked Israel's capture of EAST Jerusalem. In associated with that holiday. There are often far right way, israeli settlers, marching through the streets in it

at areas its incredibly provocative set of actions and so became bustling, bigger Just a conversation about six addictions, it was about you know, is released, sovereignty, and this is all in an area with these enormous religious implications and significance for our sights? This tinder box of of is passing impressed actors far right israeli counter protesters, heavy handed policing by israeli police forces in

things really exploded. When is really police raided, the Alex a mosque which is where the holiest sites in Islam they fired, stunner, grenades, rubber bullets and when people are worshipping. So that's when Hamas got involved relics the Palestinians were not asking for them to be involved there, just selfish assholes, who want to make this about themselves, their terrorists and in arsonists, and they start firing rockets indiscriminately into Israel, which declares war crime in the Good NEWS, is like a lot of rockets were intercepted by this iron dome missile defence system, which you know prevented innocent people from dying. But then the idea responded with intensive shelling of targets in Gaza in that still ongoing. In look, as I just said, people NOS one of the most densely populated areas in the world and its been controlled by Hamas, since two thousand seven so through this is open air prison where the majority of people can't get in, they can't get out there to stop there and then you that the last piece of broader

on text, is theirs is general political instability in the region, because the Palestinian Authority is feckless and corrupt and they haven't even had elections since two thousand sex in the israeli government has been paralysed because they have had for elections in two years, but because of how their system works, no leader has been able to form a government, so they just go back to the polls and back to the polls and Netanyahu is basically a caretaker prime Minister right now, but he has been distracted by a bunch of corruption cases against him, so it's in there was, it seems, like some people were asleep at the switch and he's really government when it came to these tensions in east Jerusalem. What's your reaction been too Netanyahu's response to him ass over the last several days of easy? The shelling continues, as we speak certainly seems disproportionate from everything that I've I've read and seen over the last several several days. Yet

the motto you'll, like always hear from you as officials from the Bite administration right now, is that Israel has a right to defend itself and, of course, that is true. Right, like any leader, would respond if rockets were fired into civilian areas, but to your point Johnny, I do think that glosses over a more important question of. Is this a proportionate response? Are these strikes going to save innocent lives or or Hake innocent lives in right. Now, I'm very worried about all these reports of civilian casualties and these residential buildings that are getting targeted because you, the way that is really defence officials often describe their military operations. In these cases the cop mowing the which is a grilled disgusting, dehumanizing way of saying, like once, the fighting starts we're going to take out as many tomatoes fighters as we can and we're going to take out as many rakats in as many tunnels that Hamas uses as we can before it stops, but like it took three months to reach a cease fire in the twenty fourteen

thousands of people died, and the israeli Defence Minister gave a speech last week where he said. If I doesn't stop the twenty twenty one response will be worse than twenty forty yeah. He said if you really have to sleep in shelters, because Hamas is firing at them than Gaza will burn. That's a quote from the fence, minister into me, that is like that's a recipe for escalation for more innocent deaths, and yet the Avc citizen in Gaza can't stop Hamas. They can't make them stop firing rockets. They can't help that Hamas is co, locating its operations in areas where they live their lives these bombing raids. You now- and I think that's why, like calls for a cease fire happen now in that doesn't absolve Hamas for theirs. Major power imbalance. Here I like Israel's a superpower with his advance military and is funded by the? U S and there they control most of the territory we're talking about, and I think that's why they need to be more of a pushed her two conferences,

remedial lover. What's your reaction been watching this unfolds yeah the specially the Israelis targeting building that house media outlets, because this is a mass was collecting there You know it's obvious, soon, really hard to watches unfold and. and there was something that actually of all people burial. Throat that really stuck with me, not because I agree with that. Obviously met stayed out of this, that a jump hear the rest of what I'm going to say before you tweet at me. Please otherwise was more times com. This is now I'm chief cancer culture correspond of her own sub stack, but she wrote ass. She said this about the deaths of palestinian civilians and children, in an attempt to try to bring new, wants to what she it is an anti Israel. Anti semitic narrative that has taken hold- and she said an unspeakable tragedy. It is also one of the unavoidable burdens of political power of Zionism Dream

Turning to the reality of self determination and autism, on a symbolic and makes me so angry like makes me really upset to see that, because what I am I think, of Israel. I did my mind. It is like in a locker ably it is come. It is connected not just to the Holocaust, but to the anti Semitism. Jews have faced forever to thee fact that, after the creation of Israel, Jews had to flee, arab countries were or were expelled from urge countries into Israel, I think, of the escape of soviet Jews. I think of the fact that programmes took place in Europe after World WAR, two in Poland, instant, Europe, like I, am not talking about this, just intellectually like in my bones, like as a jewish person, I am zionist, I believe in it. It is. It is my bias. It is how approach these these questions. It is how I was raised.

How I think about it, I believe in the project of Israel and what is so enraging about this is that that is then twisted by. but like Netanyahu by by the Israelis by defenders of what Israel does is to say, if you leaving Israel. This is what you must support. And not only do I think, that's not true, because as morally wrong, like not only is referring to this as some unavoidable burden of power like morally reprehensible, which is hitting not taking this one sentence, but I think it speaks to a larger way in which these action are defended. I think it is counterproductive in in a fundamental way that it does not bring. Closer to the point at which, Israel is free and safe, because Palestinians are free and safe. It makes everything harder. It makes everything go on. It makes the animal worse. It makes the hatreds worse. He makes it is real, more isolated, more alienated from from its from its name.

Yours and from the international order it makes the day in which Israel is at peace, sustainable and safe and free further away and I doubt that was sort of my reaction on top of what everything agreeing with everything Tommy's everything Tommy and bed said on parts of the world. It was that I dont believe what is Those doing is morally right. I think it's repellent, but I also think it is not in the interests of those who believe in Israel and the project of Israel, yeah. No, I didn't I mean Sir Walter this unfolding. Many people have pointed this out that businesses to generate a lot of headlines when rocket start falling on Israel, but, as Tommy pointed out, there's like a whole bunch of context that doesn't get as much headlines everywhere before the Rockets are falling in Israel, not always the case. Every time this conflict erupts between Israelis and Palestinians in it.

end of the day. You just have to understand that, like the Palestinians, don't have a state, nor do they live in a democracy right, and they either need to have a state of their own or the need to be treated as equal citizens in the state where they live. And the israeli government under Netanyahu does not want either of those thanks and that- and it is, I think, is important- is focused sort of like on the Palestinians themselves, because sometimes we just don't talk about the stuff until sorry firing off rockets, but I'm gonna get your reaction because I know you I say between, but this over the weekend about the Israelis targeting a bat that building that housed both the Associated Press and Al Jazeera yeah. I look like I want to be fix it. That was outrageous and to love it. When we, I think, is incredibly stupid to bomb a building that you know, houses, media organisations- like the word is watching. I assume that the israeli government wants people to support their efforts to think they're, just to think too proportionate and wise

there's some intelligence. That shows that that building contained ass, his version of the fucking Pentagon, Isle, of course, look at that. I will take that on board, but I doubt that is the case. You shouldn't blow up a media bill and I also find it troubling the D. A bunch of big residential buildings have been destroyed, even if The Israelis are clearing civilians out of places like that, for they strike where these people supposed to live afterwards. You know right Gaza being bombed and dry stone age for the second time in an indicator, and so what we have to allow four complexity and all this, and for there not to always be black and white. It is true that Hamas operates civilian areas to try to use innocent people as human shields, I talked to her report. Over the weekend we used to cover Gaza. He often worked out of that building. A key building several years ago and he said that his understanding was at some element of Hamas had worked out of it at the time. I can confirm that myself, that's

I was told I was in no way trying to like suggested that makes it justified to bomb that building. I do not believe I just I kind of think that the debate over whether there was some Hamas office in this building or not misses the point. Wars are often bought in urban areas like this military. decide all the time not to strike targets because of collateral damage, not to strike targets, because you would have curtailed. The international media is ability to report on a conflict in so in this case. The idea had to know that the response to blowing up a building used by journalists would be enormous. They should have not. They should not have done it in their failure to lay out evidence proving why this with some critical military target is allowing far more syn our views about why one might do that. Like thinking. Maybe it's a good thing to curtail reporting on what's happening in Gaza to fester and enter. then to be serviced online. So I think it was an enormous.

Ere it is immoral and who is strategically incredibly fuckin stupid. I think it is another example of sort of like the power imbalance that is not focus on enough between you know. Really government and and the Palestinians and sort of the disproportionate use of force and in how they respond, it mean that's too Tommy's points. I see this idea like Israel has a right to defend itself, which it does and that Hamas uses innocent people as human shields, which it as a defence, but dozens of children or dance so either not like. sometimes that means you can't do it. Yes, the fact that means you can't can't you can't do it. It works you in people as a human shield that you kept to protect those children, your job is also protect those children. killing civilians in Gaza does not save civilians in Israel period. So I want to talk about the the bite

ministration response here about Tommy you in and Ben roads have been talking about. This time feels different in terms of of whose speaking out in or not just atavism progressives, but a lot more democrats, people who aren't usually even engaged on this issue. Can you talk a little bit about that and what do you think has his real change, yeah you wanting this change through you. You talk about this earlier John about hasn't times the. Yet the presidential comes when the rocket start getting fired in this case. there was a proliferation of videos and images out of shape. Gerard of this neighbourhood, with his passing in families, were being evicted in there. We are It was a ton of coverage of it. It was getting discuss. It was getting a talked about so decked out. That was different and important, but now you know bombing started, like your also seeing horrifying images on social media. Out of Gaza as well, and it is, if you see I've soon, people of scene, there's a video of a little girl. Ten year old girl, crying he's or neighbourhood, was destroyed. There was a video of a man grieving the dark breaking for children, for

How do you not respond on human level when, when you, when you see this- and I also think that months of conversations about black lives matter and social justice have, I think, encourage people to think about these factions in the treatment of Palestinians in wanting to give them the human rights they deserve and dignity. I deserve as in view it in the same way? You know- and you were talking about this in the sense of social justice framework. I also think there is the fact that it be Netanyahu, is a terrible leader, is a bad guy, he's super right wing is corrupt. He's a racist he's made tensions between Israelis and Palestinians. Worse did everything in his power to bluff. the Iranian Nuclear deal. Insult labelling Port distinction right because, like I criticising the aid. Israel are not criticising these really people, criticising a shitty leader. In the same way, I criticise a shitty leader in the: U S: name, Donald Trump, that's an instinct It sometimes gets lost in this, and then you also see

in democratic leaders dinner that's more willing to speak out about what's happening. Bernie Sanders wrote Rota, not bad your times of air sea she had to leave delivering like statements. I really like amazing speeches, but you're even associated with that twenty eight senators what John Joseph are calling for a ceasefire using Progressive, Jew, Democrats in the house calling for peace that to me this feels very different than these, additional serve unquestioning calls for support for Israel's right to defend itself, People are willing to be a little more species think about what's happening in judge the efficacy of these various in a military strike. and other actions Yeah I'd hustlers, focusing on that point that you made about sort of the parallels between baby and trump burning up averages. Excellent ever in sugar read it. He mentions the baby has cultivated quote an authoritarian type of racist NASH.

was in Israel and says that we ve seen a similar rise of authoritarian nationalist movements around the world. I do think it's also easier for people to start seeing the connection more clearly between authoritarian types racist national governments all around the world. Explicitly people who have experienced different levels of authoritarianism often raises nationalism both here in the U S under Trump and in other countries, and so I think, as these moat movements give rise, it's for a lot of people who aren't is engaged in this issue is no longer just a question of like Israel and Palestine, but the more the focus is on Netanyahu in his sort of corrupt racist government. I think the more people can start seeing the parallels between things were going on all over the world and the fact that he is barely holding onto power, yeah and right exploiting this crisis corrupt as hell, I think sometimes people here

all this conversation about settlements, and they wonder why wired people talk about sediments. All the time buys is such a big deal to build more apartments and in no the West Bank or in history and the reason is at some point there be so many israeli settlements that it will be impossible to create a palestinian state that is contiguous that that there is one thing just be slicing dies into little pieces and that is by design there a right wing individuals in the israeli government who want to as many settlers as they can into those territories so that it becomes de facto part of Israel that it like that. the Mayor of EAST Jerusalem set his flesh on the record when talking shake draw that same guy by the way also pointed at a palestinian protester and said next time. Did you in the head right so that some real extremists? having the debate on both sides. well nothing yet you hear people talking about a one state solution, but like Palestinians will, within Israel. Right now,

in Israel are treated as second class citizens not just treated, but like Netanyahu was past law. your law, making them second class citizens during the time he's been about them, and it's just that the the settlements make a two state solution more and more difficult. You now see no peer by nor in the New York Times talking about right of return that I remember when we were in the white as with the above measures, would face criticism for challenging Israel on settlements for challenging Israel on some of its policies, and the view was, if you don't push for a two state solution and try to stop some of the ways Israel has for its part, making that solution more difficult. You are in furtively, marching towards a one state solution, which means a very different version. It needs no longer being a jewish state because of the inevitability of the demographics in Israel and Palestine, and we see that playing at now yeah. It was a. It is also true that over them,

several decades. The palestinian Authority has walked away from were refused to accept deals that were negotiate by the. U S were put forward by is feel that would have enormously benefited then today had they taken them. I would this is by means absolving the postman, Authority course of their responsibility for the failure to achieve a two state solution. The challenge now, though, like you see the by diminish asian, putting out a statement. They sent a letter to mock mood bossed the head of the Palestinian Authority. Well, Abbas has no power nope and listen to him he's no moral authority. They delay these. elections in part, because I'm sure he thought Hamas would kick his ass. So, like you know, that's when we talk about the power of doubts, animate starting up whether one is positive Merrick brought by wealth, front stocks means rocket ships day trading can be a lot of fun right Tom. Like my co host Elon Musk,

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released a letter on Sunday night calling for an immediate cease fire the by an publicly won't even go there. You know where recording this, that right before button speaks to yeah who and then said he, he said these old reported that he would have more to say after he has that discussion. Tell me: why do you think the by demonstrations is taking this position like? Do you think there are certain political or national security dynamic, shaping their but what are they are struggling to understand at me? Look I'm getting pretty frustrated with the Biden risk since I know a lot of the people and his team were working on this sitting, there good people, I think their hearts are in the right place, but I think the world is looking at this as a test of Joe Biden, commitment to human rights and what what What is bringing back for me is there. Was this mantra that heard all the time from like very smart policy people when I worked in the government,

sad when it comes to Israel. There should be no public daylight between the. U S in Israel on disagreements here, we shouldn't disagree publicly, and I just don't agree with that. I think The fact that Israel is our closest ally in the region means that we should be able to have principle disagreements, somebody over the weekend flagged press briefing, by ARI Flasher like one of them, not a good guy Bush spokesman. This is from two thousand to use asked about. Is Israel in Gaza and in an instant the killed civilians in our he said that Bush viewed that bombing as a heavy handed action that is not consistent with dedication to peace in the Middle EAST. We we should be able, by be able to say that to abolish has been able to say that right and again, this is not about rising Israel. This about criticising bad decision made by Netanyahu, and so you know right now, Biden team. This hinting that they're calling for a cease fire, but their say they're doing it quietly and they also dont want talk about whether they think the strikes are proportional or not, which that it

ITALY is a bigger deal because proportion Howdy gets you too, question about whether something is a war crime, but the problem is Netanyahu is pointing dividing the public statements about Israel's right to defend self, and he is asserting that the? U S fully supports what he's doing, and on top of that, the? U S gives Israel three point: eight billion dollars with a b per year in military. financing. On top of that, the? U S funded the iron Dome Missile defence system. On top of that, the? U S often blocks racism of Israel at The- U N, including over the weekend where there was a? U S, statement condemning the israeli military response in calling for a cease fire, so the world thinks we complicit, you know in a lot of Muslims, are going to see the images of is really police raiding the owl a mosque in the outrage by it- and I worry about

the security challenge that could come on top of all the moral. Once we talked about time, I'm pretty worried here. I just can't understand the national security or geopolitical risks and publicly calling for a ceasefire. I, like I dont, understand events like one of those things we're like this. So much in roads talked about this unpleasant the world last week about, I sort of like the response is different this time, but the talking points haven't changed for live like Democrats in power, specifically in the Bite administration, and if you don't pay alive attention to foreign policy. There is like all this likes conventional language that doesn't really. It doesn't make a lot of sense to people outside government, and so when by demonstration, sounds their new goes there. You know behind the scenes, doing diplomacy where they're calling for cease fire, but they won't call for a ceasefire publicly. That makes no sense to anyone, like Madam makes sense to me, and I pay somewhat attention to this measure- is a regular people like why the hell

and Joe Biden want a ceasefire wise in calling on both sides to stop this people dying every day like. Why? Wouldn't he do that? Why what's the problem, the m? It does strike me at its there's, a kind of like I take it as it has been true of Joe Biden, other candidate, Israel, in the early days of of Joe Biden as President that there is a real reluctance to be pulled into new cycles that are then I knew cycles they want that. This is not the topic they want to be talking about, and this is not the focus of their foreign policy that they don't want, to be mired in this. I am not defending that morally, and if I'm talking about the politics of it- and so you can see in their rhetoric this hope of trying to push for a cease fire without changing the land age that they're using to kind of bring less attention to their place Inside of this debate that the role of administration itself in the conflict in adjusting

like what we are seeing and what I think they will see and react to. Is that to the point that that John just made that that the situation has changed at the language has to change and that that is not really ten actually, you do have to say more now, even if your reluctantly- because you don't want to be central to the international debate about the conflict zones I think the policy framework has changed. I also I dont have any evidence to prove this right now, but I think the political context has changed and that young people- Progressive are looking what's happening in their thinking. That is morally wrong and I want someone to talk about it. So my experience, just like stepping back in foreign policy and foreign policy in press was often you would have very big brown kids who sit in very important meetings- and they talk about yes, soft versus hard power and all these big esoteric thanks

time to write the press guides. The monster is basically given as little as possible, say as little as possible as deal with is behind the scenes, and I just that's not how the world works the rubber meets the road as you speechwriters now on policy, when you say something publicly that other world is gonna, hear about Joe Biden views on this issue in every other issue, so I think it's a real mistake not to give and Saki or the State Department, spokespeople or others were speaking for Joe Biden on these issues. The room to state the obvious, which is that were incredibly worried, but civilian casualties, that there should be a ceasefire etc. I imagine how this generational, too. I think one of the generational aspects to this is people paying attention is for the first time and just hearing. You know your mantra from when, when you're in government about I like there's, if there should be no daylight between the United States and Israel and

like why they're gonna be daylight, even though even our best right exactly that's what I'm gonna be late, like all of our allies around the world. When our allies are acting like animals, we should be able to tell them. That's like what that's like good. That's. What a good ally is really going to the idea that our alliances are beyond criticism. When, when someone a night nation or a government intonation that we're allied with, does something that we don't like that, we can't criticise. That is. I think that strikes most people in this country as bizarre, but I will say it it. It comes from a different time, a time in which United States was real. Keeping Israel in existence by being surrender. being a stalwart found, nothing and edit, not not that what you're saying is its attitude speaks to how much has shifted how the power balances has changed. You know that that there was a that

there has been more recognition from Israel's arab neighbours of its right to exist. That has not changed the fundamental dynamic inside of the israeli palestinian conflict, but it does. I think the reason that that you can be me critical? In the reason, even the Bush administration was more critical because they saw it as a necessary way to build a distance for thee for their ability to be a interlocutor for their ability to be a broker. Yeah look also, though European Yahoo, he seems pretty cool with expressing his views on policy, including when they disagree. On areas like IRAN, so I'm not sure why we should take a different tack, also you're right, you mentioned Trump injured, kush nurse you Abraham accords were basically you know the? U S gave tons of weapons basically to autocratic regimes.

To announce normalization treaties with Israel we know a lot of places we are talking about, like the USA, basically had relations with Israel anyway, I believe that those Abraham cords actually exacerbated the underlying tensions we saw in shape to raw because for a long time the Palestinians fell like while you, our arab neighbors, had our back in all this. Odin these. These accords, which I agree. I want Israel to normalize relations with all its neighbours. I want there to be peace between they always IRAN, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc. But I think it ain't exacerbated detentions with the underlying palestinian issue, because the Palestinians were like, while we have nowhere to turn now we're desperate, more desperate than before. Is there anything the bite administration could be doing, you'd be doing right now, in addition to calling for a cease fire time.

yeah, but I think these are two distinct issues that are inextricably linked to. One is just stopping. This immediate were right, and the second is the longer term underlying problem, so I think they need to call for immediate ceasefire. They need to do so publicly. That is like the key it now, but long term like they have to try to find a way to get the guy. I dont want Joe Biden to do what we did, which is have a gigantic I'm at the White House and bring in five leaders in host a bunch of nickel Nations like I don't know that it. That was a great use of time, but I do think they need to get the two parts back into some sort of negotiation, asian or or peace process. Where there's only conversations hopping about these underlying issues where they're trying to empower the the Palestinian Authority, so people are turning to Hamas that in that process should include offering incentives for doing that. I, but also a pressure campaign that says you know the? U S, we will condition, or cut off a Terry aid if its use to annex the West Bank or if we can,

you'd have human rights concerns about the targeting of civilians. I cannot have this approach where Netanyahu is perceived to have a blank cheque and also just for four people we constantly hear from people from listeners. This show say: look I live in a blue state. I am frustrated, I feel it I have no power or agency in Washington. Now. Is your time call your representative call Democrats who represent you, ask them to make a public statement calling for a cease fire s them depressed pressure. President Biden to do so. It will really matter if reps here about this stuff on the funds yeah. I very much agree with digging for everyone when we come back Doktor Anthony factually talks to love it about the city sees new mass guidelines were excited. In truth, the next brand, because they were one of our shows. First sponsors early on helix, longtime supporter of Pierre say from the beginning, from the jump

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where's or outdoors without mass or distancing president binds the announcement of the news mark a great day, but many have questions about this change. What led to it, what it means for returning to normal if we are to help is chief medical adviser to President Biden and friend of the PA, Doktor Anthony Foul GI, doktor value. Welcome back! Thank you good to be with you again. So, first of all, can you explain what we ve learned about the vaccines that led to this decision, yeah there was, humiliation of of data scientific evidence that, was really accruing over the previous few weeks that led to the decision on the part of the CDC to make this recommendation. First of all, the real world effectiveness of the vaccines became readily apparent as more and more publications came in showing that the effectiveness the vaccine was

really even better than was shown in the clinical trials, namely the trials that led to the emergency, use authorization highly effective number one number two it worked quite well against variance and remember one of the reasons why we told people who have vaccinated that they should wear masks and door the possibility of a variant might in fact them. They may then pass it on to some one else. That's the second reason. The third reason is that Studies are now coming into show that not only does the vaccine protect against symptomatic infection is highly protective against asymptomatic infection, which means if you get infected, it's very unlikely number one and number two is extremely unlikely that pass it on to some one else, because the level

virus in your nasal bearings. If you have a breakthrough infection, despite vaccination, that the virus will be at a very low level, so high the effective good against the variants? And you don't try, made it when you do get infected those three things together, did the CDC to make that announcement. Have you seen any bad breakthrough cases like how comment is that, like I, it seems like breakthrough cases in some cases with the Yankees means. Small amount of virus probably not treads vessels. Why are changing the guidance around even testing people who have been vaccinated? Are you seeing any serious cases of people who have been vaccinated, You know to my knowledge. No, but you ve got to be careful because when you have millions and millions and millions of people vaccinated, you're, always gonna get exceptions. But if you look at The overwhelming trend and majority is that when there are breakthrough infection

They generally are either without symptoms or with minimal symptoms and the more we learn a unified for absolutely Sir John, you gonna find that sooner or later, somebody's gonna get a breakthrough. Infection get seriously ill and probably die. Not probably is What has happened but But when the denominator is tens of millions of people, you can see Surely one or more of anything so there is a sign on just this morning on the coffee shop by my house. That said everyone. Needs a mask, even if your vaccinated, and then I see I'm pundits saying things basically like if you don't take off your mass right now in your vaccinated euros. As an anti backs are you might as well be Marjorie Taylor, green zone? serve in you have been at this point. Is where politics meets science, where tourists study meets like human messy behaviour. How do you think about that? How do you think bout, translating what we

learned and updated in real time to information. People can actually use our daily lives as we returned to normal will. Would you do you always have to make sure at the science. The evidence in the data guide, whatever you do, but you also gonna, be. Be careful with the messaging. You ve gotta be crystal clear in your message: you You know what your audience is: but your messages, and when you put those two things together, you can avoid confusion like getting the point that you You mention the very fact that CDC says that we want people, vaccinated to know They are really safe, even when they go indoors without a mask does not mean that people who feel they want to continue to wear a mask. Should where romance does not amend its, not a mandate to take your mask off. I think that's what people are misinterpreting

It's essentially a scientific statements say that if you are fully vaccinated, your risk. Is really very low, not only outdoors but also indoors. it saying no more than that for the people who are not vaccinated all the recommendations remained the same. So that's the thing that I think get conflated and people get. Can use that now this is a mandate. Take your mask both now and in fact there maybe some organs nations or stores or businesses. That say you know I get it back. Blue a vaccinated are protected both outdoors in indoors but coming into my shop or coming into my establishment that they're gonna be people who non vaccinated and some people that are infected so was far I am concerned, if you wanted into my shop, where my establishment, yeah the wearer mask. That's perfectly fine

and I believe that people who are vaccinated should respect those mandates of India, and in organizations who feel I'm glad vaccinated. Thank you very much, but if you want to into my place? You gotta, wear a mask. You know why, because I can verify that your vaccinated No, we don't have a vaccine passport. That's the important thing worrying. Although that the new guidance kind of leaves people to have to make that kind of choice, basically saying look, I trust the science, but I don't trust me. Well. I don't trust people to dress the science, and now I'm on my own as a store owner to protect my my staff were Emma. I'm a person who works at this place, an almond keep my master. I guess I just don't trust the people come in and out of my store, well, that's, and I actually have a great deal of empathy and sympathy for those people, and I would They were then being able to make their own choice depending upon. How they feel about things so if it

bone. Aura. Establishment owner feels that they want to be doubly sure that they're not having people coming into their shop infected infecting other people that they say fine or else you want to go, you can walking without a mass. But if you come into my place, you have to wear a mass remember The recommendations were made to a people who were vaccinated They are really safe now, because the vaccines are highly highly protected. So now, if you feel comfortable in gonna mask off when you're indoors, that's fine. You should feel confident that you're gonna be ok. That's all those recommendations are saying in a part of the reason there is this reaction. This news around maybe on vaccinate people not wearing mask? Is it similar to some of the its fear and misinformation. Fear about people not following the signs you ve come face to face with it even

incentives, hearings you ve, had these heated exchanges with people like doktor ran Paul, in which you could have been confronted with distortions confronted with misinformation, you had this look on your ass. The last time you went up against Emmy, look like his a during the leaf dispute right before it turn pretty ugly, our surprised, but even at you talking about the Facebook means drawing about It is said senators spreading missive nation is that has at surprised you over the last fourteen months. it has its unfortunate it. It has surprised me. I wish that that were not the case, but you know that the world we are living in. You have to accept. Didn't be able to adapt to it, but that is the word will living. Unfortunately, what have you learned as a communicator as one of the most prominent scientists, doctors in the public mind about how to combat right wing information Howdah how to face it when its lead to you. No reluctance that

in fact our ability to get the country vaccine yeah. You know it is not an easy thing to do, but you ve got it very, very carefully in assiduously. Stick with the facts. Stick with the data, dont be confrontational, I mean don't just had kicked around by anybody for sure, but but don't but dont look for a fight. I mean that's the point you don't want to do that. You want to do stick with the signs that somebody says something. That's incorrect. Just respect led the way I try to do point out to them that that's incorrect information. How is your use of the Basque changed over the last even weaker, as your behavior change you? Have you followed the guidance in new ways? He asked I mean I I have I've always felt comfortable, but I think symbolically now when I'm indoors, I dont have my mask on, because I mean it.

Situation like now. I'm around vaccinated people and I'm in my establishments, so I dont, walk around with the mask on all the time but when I met a situation where people would be uncomfortable with people without masks, I wear a mass and I'm did you hurt your arm when you voted for Joe Biden, Busy voted so hard for that you may have like punch shoe the table. You don't have to listen. I'm not gonna coastlines are there for sure, but but your arms. Ok in my arms line doctor if Thou GI. Thank you so much for your time. My pleasure good to be with John Taker I love it well I'll. Take that as I am a yes on voting for Joe Biden, what about you? I don't think it was. I think he am I you were even when I ask that gross energy forever. At least his arms ok leaves his arms.

And I'm gonna start a podcast car, where I just say things at Anthony, foundry, any laughs and doesn't respond because to respond would be a political nightmare. Eleven I've heard it yet, but do you think that you guys are going to be best friends now? You know, I think he would, I think, like a lot of them, really serious professional people. They really would best to keep me in small doses, but I know a good document I think come. I still. It was though, like he's, we saying that he and stands, why you know a restaurant or store might say: let's keep them ass on, because we do know whose vaccinated and whose not, but it does still speak to the kind of challenge of like telling people the truth about the science when that meets, like messy human behaviour, because that does mean, like a doctor, vouch understands. We all understand that people who are

vaccinated who will pretend that they are simply not addressing just stop wearing their masks. Hiding the good thing is what he's basically saying as if you were vaccinated, you don't need to work, that I thought it was really helpful when he said you know, this is not a mandate to take your mask off, have also been thinking about this since thick, since the guidance like this see. A lot of this has to do with the specific mission of the CDC in what the CDC role is right. The CDC role is not to issue edicts about how to behave the they're called guidelines for a reason and guidance. For a reason, the CDC is trying to base its guidance off the best science and what saying what, for she was just saying, is if you are, accelerated, you are protected. You are protected against the variants your protected from getting you know, sick and you're not going to transmit the virus to other people. So it's been because a scientific opinion that, if you are vaccinated your good, you can do whatever they like

you are on vaccinated or you haven't been vaccinated yet or your immune compromised or your child under twelve right who is getting better than then yeah? You not only slightly too, where mass, but you need to be cautious of of crowded areas in going in without a mass and all that remains, but if you're vaccinated this it says you're good and your chance Getting sick and hospitalized is incredibly love. That's all people need to know, and then they can make their own decisions. Yeah yeah. I I do think, though, it's like one of the lessons. I think we will be learning as we look back on this period is like what happens when scientific base guidance meets human behavior MA am and like. I think all of that can be true. Whilst all puts local officials appeared business owners who puts ordinary people at times in a difficult situation because it's like, while I trust, Doktor fouche ie, but I don't know that. I trust my these strangers

I don't know that I trust other people to follow the guidance, and I feel that answer. I don't have a good ain't it who can answer to it, but it's a it's a prop. No, but I think I think that if the answer is, if your vaccinated, you don't have to worry about trusting all those other people now, if you have other, if you're one of those groups of people I talked about, you know about my mother, of course, like covers cause like well. You know you too, if you take Charlie into a grocery store now in everyone's mass, that's one thing: what have you taken into a grocery store? And now no, mass like that something you have to worry about until there's vaccines forget Noah. I get that now the chances of a child his age, getting It is incredibly low also, but that is something you have to be concerned about, but if I'm vaccinated you can you don't have to worry about that? I guess my take away from all of this is, frustration at how little grace and empathy we give anyone involved in these issues. My mom. Yes, I order right

mom's older. She is it more of a risk profile, so she's going to keep wearing her mask fine right. Like also. If you read the newspaper this weekend, you might have learned that some of the New York Yankees caught covered after their lack of another right. I give you the details. Why, like it's actually? Okay, there is symptomatic of the Yankees Isaac, the ink in yes, What are you thank you, but like zero, such a boss in Brown out, even the Mets excuse me but like. I guess I don't want to scare right, but we also met give public health officials no space to be wrong or two above all, it was a new corona virus. These guidelines are to change over to the guy, experienced this in a microcosm with Benghazi. like the intelligence picture, changed over time, and when we try to update it, your accused of lying or hiding the truth, or some nefarious reasons. It's like actually sometimes you're doing the best you can with the information you have available to you at that moment

and it turned out to be wrong. They're changes alot changes like day by day, and there is a giant apparatus Ass well, funded, like a big mega telling everyone that you're lying full of six months The president was injecting bleach. Yes, Life has been one of the great like, Every of course there should be grazing, is a once in a century pandemic, the first time doctors and experts better communicate with the american people through not just television just radio but social media, and it has you know, of course, that will be lessons and, of course, its heart gems don't judge people who are still wear masks, don't judge people, work, before we go. We just want under a few big stories to keep an eye on this week, I'll start

news from the Supreme Court. This morning they have agreed to take up a case that involves the constitutionality of Mississippi's ban on most abortions after fifteen weeks of pregnancy, which could give these six three conservative court a chance to reconsider Roby It is especially alarming because you're starting to see these bans it Mississippi past passed with more frequency, Texas, just band abortions. After only six weeks, voters and loving Texas recently passed an ordinance making it the largest city to bear nearly all abortions and in just the last three days of April three days in April, twenty eight restriction

an abortion were signed into law across seven states. So there is not a lot we can do, but the Supreme Court, except wait for decision, but you know advocates- are pressing the bad administration to do more to protect abortion access, including ending the ban on abortion coverage for medicate recipients, which is known as the height amendment in the by demonstration, has already undid some Trump air restrictions on the FDA recently allowed access to prescription abortion medication through the mail. So that was progress wanting that But all this always hope who is the president of narrow in issues tweet in this morning? Here's a reminder, as we think about upcoming elections. The GEO position is to ban abortion entirely no exceptions. It's in there platform ask every single candidate who wants you wrote how they expand abortion, accents local state federal. Everyone has a role, so we should not all sit around feeling helpless, just waiting for support, good thy salsa. Also, SAM just a young student briar, retire badge and also one

is again it is. It is going to persuade him. I know it. I say it's, The best argument I have, I don't know how to make it more sophisticated. Ah, what one other one other piece of this too is despite briars protestations at the court is not a political body. It, of course, is an I seen. You know core waters and others make this point. It is also worth keeping in mind that you know this will inevitably become a debate over whether or not the corporal overturned but the Corporal Sea bottom. She just be aware that it is also pernicious for them to uphold row and some sensible way while gutting women are getting access to health care for women, and we must be aware that, like don't let that messaging or that frantic hold, because as a number of ways that they can restrict access to health care without overturning raw constantly transship away. Tommy, what what story you keeping an eye? Yes,

on Tuesday of this week. Some may Eighteenth Pennsylvania is going to hold a primary election so you're a vote on a bunch of important stuff. But the thing I want to focus on four today is the primary challenge to Larry Crasser, whose Philadelphia district attorney Crasser is part of a not big enough yet, but a wave of. aggressive prosecutors, who have been elected recently and who are trying to do radical things like hold the police accountable for misconduct, should be radical. They're trying to generally reduce mass incarceration and Craster is running again, guy he actually fired, and this person is taking more of a law and order approach using crasser of being soft on crime, all the usual trope, so we're watching this race really closely, because district attorney's are incredibly powerful. We dont pay enough attention to their elections

traditionally, DA's have won by pledging to be tougher and crime, promising to lock people up, crazier took a totally different approach and thrace- will go a long ways towards showing whether or not that's politically viable or not. So I, if you live in Philly, vote for Larry Prisoner, everyone should be figure out who their own dna is is. This is absolutely critical if you want to reduce mass incarceration, if you want a more accountable police force in your neighborhood, so unimportant race to watch to that I will just say too: I was reading about this election and one of Christmas supporters who a legislator in Pennsylvania, their work. bout low, turn out, because our people are paying attention. This race, said you're always concerned about maintaining interest in non sexy races. It was sexy four years ago because it was a new thing. Now he's our guy. It's not a sexy and, like that's gonna, be a problem, up and down the ballot. In

mid terms and twenty twenty two again like this? This is the danger for progressive Democrats in saying: ok, we all worked really. Twenty twenty. We elected some progress as we liked its undemocratic Joe Biden in the White House, we can all sort of like chill out now you can catch up because every Every time there is an election of a progressive Democrat, there is a backlash, and so the forces on the others, they're they're, going to be excited, they're out and turn out, and if we don't match their gonna lose and I lose, and I think that's what will see what happens unto labour that something fragrant to watch out for this is, though, is the problem with with cancel culture alive. Cries? Nerd, isn't sexy with his pants on can't take his pants off you no good to go off I'm not I'm not not not with twitter does on the context and caribou. Very wise here is the third, third host or I got in there.

love it. What does here? I would underline that obsolete acts. I'm reading left open EU keeping an eye on you, gotta watch your kids and the sub stacks right. Keep an eye on those subjects are kids are reading right. You never know. What's going to creep into stick with a message box, don't go anywhere, I guess necessity. I don't look out of the matches, buys without you're the one substance. There are a lot of great substance. Don't come at me the set of Rules Committee, How did hearing and vote for the for the people act passing out of committee on a party line vote, nine hundred and twenty nine the bills have to be coming. I was always tricky because it would require changes to filibuster, an unanimity among all fifty cent Dems, but this week Energy Mansion said he's opposed to the fore the people act and in favour of the John Louis voting tat, which is more targeted and and looks at addressing the consequences of a very bad ruling by chief Justice, John Roberts gutting. The voting rights accepted Democrats met for the first time to make a game plan or on the bills and protected

proceed where Centre cures cinema as humor, what the plan to pass this, which is a bit like a beaver, putting like the finnish touches on a dam and then turning to the they should being like. How do you plan to get down river, oh, I don't know like I imagine that was wild. I imagine, like Brian shots his eyes rolled so hard in his head that I like made annoys you have you have to choose a filibuster that you support? here, the you're, the reason you're the reason. Ah so that some you know something too much.

If you, if you care about voting rights, its knowledge and good right now, so everyone needs to sort of redouble their efforts to call their democratic. Senator specifically of yours is a dimension or Kirsten Cinema, but I mean like the Jungles Voting Rights ACT is incredibly important and if they could pass that, that would be an enormous progress. It basically reinstate the Pre Clarence that John Robertson and his cord sort of gutted beckoned in twenty thirteen and so states would not be able. Just change their voting laws without Pre Clarence from the federal government's Oates, and it's an important law, but again even donation. Being for that, unlike ok? Well, are you willing to get rid of the filibuster to pass law, because so far the only Republican we know who supported as these markets had caused pondered it while back that's, why need still need nine more. So, what's your plan Chris, citizens, initiatives, Germans and which are planned to pass that you ask the nearer also asking the mirror: what's your plans? What's yours,

and you are all of us- are these people worshipping at the altar of fake bi partisanship in lieu of doing stuff? It's bad spent well give up their cars, keep up the pressure beg you Anthony factually for joining us today twice on the pod fourfold. She now see his ease Mozart status. He let her come in here. Like someone, admit about fairer, but for about anybody providing yeah yeah. What will depend on down? Another third himself did your quickly clarification, an apology to my mother last week tell the story about the time when our cat died. that, however, well now the cat in question was snoop her. She had a heart attack, mid air and died while trying to jump into the kitchen table to get to her food. I think that ten years old at the time I made it sound like my mother's reaction was callous, perhaps In fact, we are very sad. We learn that, even though the cat

credibly mean and used to slash my face over and over and over again course. We what we love the cats. We love our animals, we lots of animals, but my mom just wanted me to point out that the reason the cat was left in the basement four days for my father to deal With- was because it was the middle of winter and the ground was frozen and you can't bury a dead cat in your back yard. He can't get this. On the ground. So now that's where that saying comes from yet six. So that's away, on snoop her, but her our enemies I didn't take it that way by the right and see it as callous when he told the thrust of my mother nothing because you know my mom nothing about her, establishes the nicest human I've ever known and look What are you do now doing? Tommy politics that our do my politics, the cabin not like that's the end of the black ass, this forum for corrections particular corrections that our family demand and grudges. Speaking of

donors, algae from Larry, David and the pot. POD save America is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is flabby causes associate producers are Jazzy Marine in Bolivia, Martinez, its mixed in edited by Andrew Chadwick, I said what is our sounded in here the tiny so many to Katy, long, roman, puppet Dimitrios, Caroline rest in adjusting how for production support into our digital team, Eliza Comb, normal Conan, yell Freed and my look him who film and upload these episodes as video, every week. Is it just me or do you sometimes wish the news were more fun? Yes, cathartic origin,

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