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“It’s like Medieval Times every night!”

2017-12-11

The Alabama special election comes down to who gets more votes, Trump and his propagandists continue to delegitimize the press, and there’s too much Diet Coke being consumed in the White House. Then the Atlantic’s Julia Ioffe joins Jon, Jon, and Tommy to discuss Putin’s long game, and DeRay Mckesson talks about the latest incident of police violence.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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we ve been offers twelve new recipes each week and customers can pick two three or four recipes based on what benefits there scheduled for April is treating positive, miraculous, MR their first three may Thirty dollar value, with your first order, if you visit blueprint outcome such crooked to check this man. You get your thirty dollars offered free shipping, a blueprint outcomes, dot better ways. John turns back when is a better way to twelve die, coax a day. The times reports that the president is having twice. Diet. Coke today call Mahler it's a fucking crisis. That's too many die collected a night I wonder he so cranky, he can't sleep there. Prudence cooks, cook
welcome to pod, save America, I'm John Favour on John mother. I'm Tommy veto on the parts a day we have the Atlantic Julia off. He we'll talk about her brand new piece on Vladimir Putin called Putin's game and later we'll talk to the host of cricket media's positive. The people, too, reminiscent we're goin on tour grab sake it's for our twenty eighty stocks, a crook about, come such events. That's excited yet as last year, I feel like you were about to say something funny, nothing, there's something about your tone that struck me myself. It's very cheap, reverence sales by hate, speaking a sales via, latterly out on Friday? We and all it was the last Friday we promote you. I know how it works John. Why are we often way to take me with Andy Daily Jenny, Yang and Emily Heller? Who is a really funny episode very loose? We had a good time. Emily Heller's Rance about the fake sign language interpreter toward the end of the show made me laugh so hard. It was so funny it was a great episode, and then this Friday
the lover leave it last episode of the year holiday, spectacular, my god, you guys maybe enlisted because you'll be there call. I can't wait, that's gonna be functional lot. I guess that's really sources for innocent and our offensive idealism. Fun stuff, you know, is funnier some, some contributors messed up. I perceive the world my boss ipods, either because it is at all times on Jerusalem, Jerusalem, what to Jarrett, they John you're, the only one who noticed I was out of the thoughtful conversation about why he made this overly political decision about a fraught diplomatic issue and then the empty suit Rex sellers and adjust or wanders round the seven for the state department? Will he go fired? Multi lobby who'll replacements expelling but the house you than ever undergoes brilliant prenatal watching other tourism coverage over the last week and a half I did was constantly. By like. Were you guys all super happy with like this, the his grow like how dear
You violate the status quo in which things were terrible for half a century in a horizontal are good ideas in this debate. Now, maybe we can solve here. I think property than it. Ok, with cyber than is tomorrow. Voters in Alabama will choose their next senator in a special action to fill the seat held by Jeff sessions. A wind by Democratic Jones would drastically increase the chances of Democrats retake the Senate and twenty eighteen, which would allow them to effectively kill Donald trumps legislative agenda, his ability to staff the government with whoever he wants his ready to confirm whatever the judges he wants, including the Supreme Court Johnson, I can't say two or three of the stakes here: pretty thou, then only by Johns could also jeopardize the republican tax bill since quarters are no and Collins's back on the fence after being sniggered by Ms Mcdonald
Paul Ryan Erna. These saw guys but Mark Rubio says that if he doesn't get his way in the bill, there's couldn't be. Problems is go per day. Is gonna, he's gonna, Tweet Oda, I will first that's very stern about taxes, so you re Republicans know about the stakes they understand this and so Donald Trump Republican National Committee way too many elected Republicans are actively supporting alleged child molesters Roy more twice fired Supreme court. Just assemblies homosexuality should be illegal shouldn't vote, Muslim shouldn't serving Congress, and the constitution would be better without every amendment after the ten there is a really good, once the ten one of them you gonna wanna go back and look at those there's. Some big ones is an entire gender that would be written off and the voting boots and a race race, gender color things he keeps particular upset about. The dry election of. U S, senators apparent yet everyone alike,
I'm so yet we have very close race Plaza been all over. The place has been extraordinarily difficult to pull the Fox NEWS pull out this morning that has Jones up ten and the genuine. Please is correct, but who knows guys Minos? Nobody? Nobody knows, there's been competitive rates down there, it's been alive, tell it like it. What was it like? How do you pull when it's an Alabama Senate's eat? One of the peoples and accuse pedophile like this oh no good way across the numbers the sample sizes presented, we will vote this week in his me so low also point more cautious left the stage he apparently was in Philadelphia. This weekend, Army Navy Game Mouser Report ever this morning I mean he is as fully hidden from the press, as you can possibly do when running for an election, including weaving state. So why is this thing so close? guess what Isaac Windows Alabama, but you know alleged jungle, Furthermore, what's goin on anyone's either Nancy device focus groups. Yes, that was
What's that fraud and aid for some reason to really bring me down. I was feeling what it's like device focus group, so Franklin's, poles fragrance. It's down a bunch of conservatives. They call themselves conservatives more supporters, I like it's. You know an agreeable undecided voters, but he wanted to know why they liked Roy more so much in the responses. Little depressing here, the issue cynical, it was fastened to watch. It was an interesting insight into a certain kind of voter who we see, you know, did the people at her diehards, for these are people who die hearts or more, these are people that are choosing and then adopting the propaganda that comes at number by barred and Fox NEWS, and it's a good reminder that those people are out there. However, I was trying to Roma
myself as I watch these people to assemble and tried us make an argument based on what they ve been seeing in hearing. That is a self slighting, her people and that if, in the days of or this election, you raise your hands at proud, re more supporter and I'd love to go on. Tell us to talk about it. You're, not the coolest person in the room, hernia, you combine: those people with the ran that judging Pierrot gave They will talk by later and you get the scariest possible scenario. Fascist right. I mean there's a few people in that group who excused the assault allegations, but there are far more people and is telling that simply said they didn't believe them at their made up the George Soros paid for this paid. These women are being behind a came up. So it's like a lot of people say how could this people now am a vote
for an alleged child molesters and the answer, is they don't believe they're doing that? Were they don't want to believe or they don't wanna believe all and then that desire to notably those being reinforced by Fox and bright bar and president that nobody wants to be told the wrong in, and I think the right wing media and the more campaign Donald Trump have fermented the idea. This is Washington elites, pushing their culture, their values, down your throat and don't believe them cause you're buying into their their bullshit. And if you know it's undercutting like the very belief and in our country and, yes, which is a bigger problem, which we should talk about, sent in better news this weekend, album as other Senator Republican Richard shall be no liberal, no,
who rarely goes on the Sunday shows told Jake Tapir on Sunday that he couldn't vote for Roy more and wrote in another Republican. Why should I think this is a big deal in a big message to Republicans out there. That is, ok. Do not vote for really more. I think getting people to vote for someone is significantly harder and might be a bridge too far, if say, you're staunchly pro life, but getting underwriting Nick Saving, which is what one of the super packs is doing. As you know, essentially waited pull boat away from rumor is smart. I think it's great when people decide vote for someone named Nick say been, and I hope people write in marriage and Eliza lies laughing in the back. I just. I just think that annex saving is the perfect kind of person. Clearly from the sports world. Gotta be more, could write it. No, I thought it was actually here. Look really shall we did not have to do that. He clearly made a choice. He clearly said I want to go on a Sunday show. I want to create video
and spread out Mamma and and send a signal to republican voters, not to vote for this guy. So you know good REM. I wouldn't recommend it do than some of these other republican centres like into its awesome Jeff Lake, donated to Duck Jones budget flakes. Arizona, never and retiring in retiring and Rigid Shelby, who also initiated through internet. You can run again either Presently they stood for eighty three, maybe just that we're all we grating centres on a curve because were governed by a thorn in the main Donalds back with them. He comes back yeah, but I just budgetary work. These the Senate is filled with septuagenarians and oftener than what is used to it. I just album like, wouldn't we don't ask you for lot right now, we just talk permanent. The first wedding ever went to his Alabama had a great time my favorite musicians, male Bamako, Jason, Isabel, wonderful artists. Thank you, for that is really not only can you just do us, one, solid in not send a pedophile to Congress? We really would appreciate it if we could get this
one million could be as ban return for. We know what we are to get Alabama back, because they vote conservative Republicans into the Senate and House year after year and then have a net positive from the federal government. Over and over again, as we fund medicated met occurrence of security, even though they don't pay as much in taxes. So hey Butt Head ice, hey it's! It's us here in the rest of the country were asking for rest, her soul. It will leave out and out of the robot call, I went with the flies honey approaches to waken up so far, which works stick and Carrot Tommy, taking account okay. So what will it take for Jones to win? Obviously, all them is tough. He asked when we're both exactly there go. That's a trench. Some people have like that of people you get the coroner key up there and John King crunching resume our votes. Ladder is out. Data is out what instinct in propaganda amicably and pipe down check tat. I got this hearing or just Joan so Republicans.
And stay wide by margins of ten to twenty points. Does everyone knows how hard the only body quarter of the entire population has college Greece, which is higher than only six other states, and we know that these days with trumpets president- and this has been a trend- that's been happening for some time: white voters without a college degree or voting Republican, historic margins, no matter what so incredibly difficult. Also, you lot don't leave out voter suppression, voter suppression. Problem down. There is a huge problem. Special action turn out no way to model who turns out an especial election, and so for Jones. It comes down to the african american vote. African Americans make up twenty seven percent of the state's population. Doug Jones needs the blackboard to account, for at least
twenty five percent of the electorate? Then he could lose the white vote by fifty one to thirty six. If he bumps it up to twenty six percent twenty seven percent, he can lose by even more and then you would need more to under perform in the northern part of the state which he's done in the past and he basically still have to have some suburban professionals run. Birmingham Tuscaloosa places like that who might be Trump supporters to say, either stay home or vote productions. That's what you know. That's the recipe, okay! So well, so let me do that information, as just for everyone to you know where you're looking at the returns come into my that's why it's been sure thing to see how Joneses campaign is approaching. This could have had a number of prominent after american circuits come into the state Corey Booker. Was there there's reports that President Obama's recorded a robot call but they're not sure
they're gonna use it yet so it doesn't seem like they ve gone all in on an african American turn out strategy, so something there trying to do in a way that doesn't know, tie them to Washington or tie them to Obama further ran they already are, which is I don't know. I have not seen a numbers. I don't know what I would do in their case, but it seemed like if your hindering the whole thing and african American turn out, I might push all those ships in the tabled say: hey still big event, let's get a Lama doing Tb Aids. Whatever. Maybe I had the same thought and I know people out he went down there. That would be it in a divergence illusion. It would hurt him, but you know don't Jones is running a strategy. That is not what is unlike many democrats in the south are less several years, he's not running as a conservative stomach,
he's running is as who he is a liberal democrat, or at least a mainstream Democrat and he's banking on it, it its african american voting. Nothing, I don't know I just I don't know, I don't know. Nothin, I don't think a lot of people make observing from outside know enough that you does. Nobody knows we, we haven't seen a competitive Alabama race. We don't know the impact of Brok, Obama nationalizing the race, whether the turn out you'd, see, increase amongst the African amongst every american community would outweigh the nationalization of the race and the reminding of Republicans the Senate stakes which, as you know, all the people saying they dumbly roar. They believe, or all of it boils down to a desire to want to have permission to vote on party lines right that that is to be to be told, it's ok to care about in the Senate more than voting for a pet of on alleged her it. So I will see what happens no predictions here from pause, evidently protections anymore now, Iran will I we just record to predictions and what a day later, excellent work which we have to do,
which it out tomorrow you get caught this part just kidding, leaving it. Ok, I'm sorry about the press. So specifically, this is the story, but I want to talk about, which is the systemic effort by Donald Trump and his state run meat. To deliver minimize the free press which they did this weekend by harping on three mistakes on the rush investigation made by three different outlets, there were all corrected within hours, as we can trump also called for Washington Post reporter Dave Waigel to be fired for putting up a picture of the wrong crowd size at his rally, a picture he immediately took down when corrected. Of course, this was the same rally where Donald Trump told people to vote for an alleged child molester who doesn't like any of the constitutional amendments after the bill of rights this is so frustrating gillig, I'm glad ravenous conversation, but the fact that this is a national conversation means a doll. Trump is already one we ve already.
Sucked into this bizarre I'd, say it's not an actual conversations causation among the DC press and us and all these people who pay tell. I don't think it's a conversation unlocks news and Ezra everywhere in the right wing, so do think financial compensation and he's already won it, because we are in a frame. We were demanding more accountability from reporters than we demand from the pressing that states because he told the bigger. Crowd size lie in history and still maintains. It is true. He says that millions of people voted illegal, it Hillary Clinton or that Bronco Obama wiretapped him something. I think said again over the weekend, but Dave Waigel who too great report washing post made a mistake, corrected it and apologize, and we plan to this farce like it's. A real debate, like his attacks on Dave, are legitimate when in
The guy is just using it as a political wedge. Its strategy is not actually a conversation by fact efficient. That is the best point, and that is what has been lost and all this it's not that, like it's, our hypocrisy in brain boilers made as points of his pieces on crude outcome to it's not like. Oh, you know Trump lies all the time in and he doesn't get caught and Fox NEWS lies all the time and we don't yell and it only happens when the mainstream made it as it. It's not about that. This is a strategy by Donald Trump and his press to destroy the media. Ok, there's an editor of bright Bart Matt Boil said the following in July of this year. In public. The goal eventually is the full destruction and elimination of the entire mainstream media. We invest the day were CNN is no longer in business. We envision a day where the New York Times closes its doors. I think that day is possible. Many white the drew off his chin, but it's like this is what
they're doing, and then you have. I read this and access. I see an ended, this brains, Delta did it and a New York Times tons of mainstream media sources are having these like introspective hand, wringing conversations. What are we to do? Did we just a few Oh, you know Donald Trump strategy and help him out above about you, and it's like I'm so glad that they're all concerned about getting things right and they're gonna slow down and take their time. They absolutely should do. That is important things, but you know I like, as long as reporters are fucking human beings, they're gonna, make mistakes and guess what? If reporters were perfect in all these areas were perfect. Do you Donald Trump were just back off and Fox NEWS. The closest Orton say: oh we're. Fine. Now we're not going to attack you anymore. It's you when the mainstream Orson, it's like them, through media is a restaurant and it's like a fine restaurant. And every morning, Fox NEWS and bright barred and Donald Trump Italian Conway and, like the all right, they run up to that restaurant and they spread this place is filled with rats
they spray painted on the wall and the restaurant. Has no rats, but the other day they did serve a piece of undercoat chicken to somebody who is there and then you know they they immediately. We realise mistake, they pulled back, no one got sick and then the owner, the restaurant, is like. I can't believe it we ve, given we leave aided the people say, were filled with ran. We want me rather, as I naturally like, throwing things through the window. You know what my undercoat chicken mistake, which I corrected instantly, is just a few, These attacks and bright and bright barsad front hugging chick fillet if anyone else right in my area of wage earners, that, as you know this analogy work, then I do what I like to do. You think the few times that Fox NEWS has corrected their mistakes. They have long panel discussions all week.
How are we to regain the trust of the Fox news? Lower is what will happen to our Fox news. Yours will they believe us anymore. These people believed them no matter fucking what and they will believe that the mainstream media is a joke, no matter how perfect they are. That's not the fucking problem. All such as you know it is import. You get things right, you are not getting things right to try to me Sean, Hannity and Donald Trump, like you they're, not doing this cereal and Harry that does not help them their hair of your honest or not. That's not why they do what they do. They don't care about the truth. There are liars, and so we ve built the system. Now, where lies on bright Barton lies on how to capitalize on fox and friends? Don't count killing Conway's limestone those Eliza, don't count the only light that matter or the only missed eggs. That matter are the mistakes made by people who care about truth, and that is no stand,
Meanwhile, the mainstream media, I think rightly, is covering the rise of all. These were like right. Wing apparatus is like the covering Steve Bandit, constantly lucky spend Golly with my views on that are well known, but they did a piece on project. Very task, which is James. O Keefe running around setting up suit of sting operations were essentially just records, people offering their views and often ways and selectively edit zoom in deeply dishonest fashion to like sell this narrative, but the mainstream media is getting savaged in their not standing up for their own reporters like day waigel who made an honest, honest, mistaken, corrected it and then, therefore, of like looking at this right wing apparatus, it set up to destroy it
like a day. The zoo animal is reserving is often that you're coming for you guys is the problem I was at times. It doesn't come with the times that you like, when they print people like Eric Ericsson in their up at pages as if that pay onto a certain segment of the right wing, he's gonna, win them plaudits, search and win them supporter demonstrated they care about an ideologically broad perspective. Like are you up for this fight because, like they're not coming for you, because the honor of conservatives on the up at page they're coming for you because about power there's about power, and you need to stand up for yourselves, not as some institute like you're, not observed being the all right, you're. Observing them you're in a fight with them, they want to beat you Gonna, try to destroy you you getting them right on your pages. Doesn't matter also you report stories, and one of the biggest stories of our time is the fact that the president and his propaganda machine- our try
to destroy anti legitimize, the free press. That is a story, and you have to expose the bad faith motives behind their actions. Like not because you're in a war, not because you know liberal partisans wants you to bring down the president, because that's one of the biggest stories of our time in Europe porters and your job is report on that. In doing so, will necessarily be adversarial because you're trying to expose the lies that are covering up, strategy in their wrongdoing. Yes, the whole point of it is it's like you know, you did make this happen, but you're. The story like your place in this is part of the story and not just the reality, and I think the prisoner responded best of all to this. This weekend was day widely ass Lou I saw brains, tells her tree last night. I reached out to Waigel for another comment, but he's busy covering the race in Alabama, like he didn't make it about him. He didn't have a big thing. He just kept tweeting
Albania and then like moved on with an easy. You know any said. The worst thing that habitat is weakened was the Delta losses luggage, and I do think, the brain Ross case. I Brien's a good or poor ever to maintain what he's made a number of very high profound mistakes over time, therefore, lead to the suspension four month waigel tweeted a photo any deleted it, and it's not a big deal in what stop pretend I think CNN would have probably been better served if their teams montage on the guys who screwed up the story about Donald Trump Junior's email had more thoroughly corrected it in the way Bible did it just said we screwed up like I did something to me. The outlet circle, the and they get defensive it that it doesn't served them well over time, but more broadly, like Donald Trump strategy of never ever admitting. You lie never saying sorry works in this media day and age. The minute you should
any contrition. You get savage, and also my oh, by the way, a double this like it's hard to be accurate as like. These are journalists, institutions that are doing their best to be accurate. It's tough to get things right. It's especially hard when every source you have is a fucking liar, laissez faire dealing with the most obstinate sensitive, malicious Whitehouse and governing apparatus we have had in our car we in our lifetimes number one break it off, yes, and so is like this. Is you know, I'm your fan, George W Bush richer x and made some big mistakes, but even these people pale and comparing and to the dissembling and lying and viciousness of the card administration mean Sarah could be set She lies on the podium every single day, so it's tough vigorous What's going on his half they're gonna make mistakes also a Fox news host this weekend called for the arrest by Donald Trump of debate.
Would have justice, officials and FBI official texting for investigating Donald Trump, whose forces, it has already been charged with felonies. That happened this weekend on a pretty major network and its beast and is actually connected it s right. The idea that that's, oh yeah, you're, the assault on the institutions in the press is similar to oh look. There are democrats, or there are people with political views that differ from Donald Trump inside the FBI inside the Justice Department, which there always have been because its United States and people are allowed to have political views in their private lives. These people must be purred. These people must be ferreted out, they can't handle them. Months. Ability of investigating the president. The implications of that are incredible. Only republicans can investigate the white us. Only people will not illegal views. We hat right not to mention, of course biller, but this standard their suggesting so cavalierly right. So just glibly out of an out of a desire to protect the president. Is people can't have personal views,
and do their job professionally, which has never been a standard and is not possible to uphold. Unless you want to literally do a purge, its manufacture, I mean the duchess. I dug dig in trust for single judge. Jean Pierrot is not just a Fox news host she's, essentially Trump adviser she, someone who gets an audience with him for like hours at a time when ants about how she said publicly on her show that the FBI behind Deejay needed to be cleansed uses word cleansed of individuals like the deputy director. The FBI, by should, four months ago I mean these are apparently these you are so crazy that Donald Trump got bored and walked out of the room, which says? I throw the law says an awful lot, but they like it's more dangerous than just a lunatic ranting on Fox is like you want a story about media malfeasance. There's your fuckin story, wizened. She has a pretty big audience, there's a couple
in people who saw that. Why are we talk about that, and also, and also just the kind of the respectable conservatism twitter? Who, like CNN, made a mistake? When will these people learn that their adding fuel to fight this is this? Is the problem cancer and if they won't make mistakes in the future by thinking to themselves like can it be adding fuel to the fire if we accident we get this wrong, but put it speaks to a fundamental blind spot which is the same suit. You know the serious conservatives, the reasonable ones, the ones that don't like Fox NEWS. They don't watch it they try to ignore. It makes them feel bad. They don't russet right like this. There is no equivalent to a Janine Pierrot, Sean Hannity and Fox friends are doing, and they never at the same level of criticism from the people who claim that they're just out there trying to figure out the turn of saving by their crazy, a crazy people and our party? We don't agree with fair, just scientific quietly to another yeah, that's how they
I would say Heroin, Ashura view weekly standard crowd or only the central that that's how they see the functions with other crazy but like whenever. Not that they have this huge audience of people that their in its again, it's like, because it's this strange sort of, like paradox, of o Fox NEWS in those as a the mainstream media, don't matter because we have a mainstream media, as we have a media under assault, that's doing a pretty good job, even though we point out since with with far greater frequency than we do on our own side. It's ok because it it's a don't you see what the end result of this is, if you don't pointed out, own side, we're gonna run out of the good guys the story is not the media's mistakes. The story is that powerful people are trying to destroy the media. Whether it makes makes mistakes are not speaking of good stories. Let's have it in your time story. Does all old, deserted the asked so many exhibiting a hybrid have a guy sleeping baggage is heck. This rolls over to the White House and stays Africa. We
the Japanese and she's kind of events have sixty sources in New York I'm story over the and will eventually commanded his targeting so stories called crumbs hour by hour battle for self preservation near time story. This story has at all drop a watching. Forty eight hours of tv heard cable news every day which he tweeted about this morning in the midst of a terrorist attack that well, I was on his mind. Someone might have bombed the subway in New York City needs. We did that. He doesn't watch that much tv, also. Ok, I saw that actually find bird matched up the time stamp of his tweet with a morning Joseph. How he was watching that so much time till he was treating about our watching tv or watching tv stimuli swedes of oxen brands. Leg was not our to figure out drinks. Twelve diet, Coke today love it. I tell you, have only got us all so I have a decent. Here. So what are you guys know loved? I could well die coves today is oh much, that's five hundred milligrams of caffeine, if you
having that many a night like I don't think so, exaggeration to say is essential. Part of our current national crisis is fuelled by someone who is exhausted drinking calving to stay awake waking up after four and one half hours of sleep, because there still caffeine flowing through his bloodstream and then caffeinating over again in repeating the vicious cycle like if John Kelly part of the committee to save america- should go into that fridge and quietly replace some of the company to die, coax with caffeine, free diet, coke and then, after six p m, give him caffeine freed. I hope all the sun is nine. Thirty ten o clock he's tuckered out on site sleep now again, six hours now get seven hours is waken up a little more refresh, maybe dollar more spring. This that maybe can follow. Fuckin thought love it I mean how many times you can he has to Peter in the day, twelve twelve dying. Hope and I'm in there all day. I don't. Let me tell you, I mean you're missing the television on the bathroom all too and is just what I also just. I don't think he's all
meaning with water? You know they mean like. I think that he is just a straight up. I hydrate with diet, coke and some other than dinners with the terms of gravy someone help is sitting there like is he holding a turkey leg to meddle in olden eyes. Andrea. Imagine my chances on ours in front of us is big business with you just turn Grady the biggest gonna reminds one head and the great beauty never about, and then some turkey turbulence scooped up some chocolate cake. Thirty, like like twelve day, coax burnt stake mashed potatoes with gravy. Two pieces, a dessert, alamode mode screaming Let me just his blind you just like. Haven't I get her here, so unhealthy, two things that don't appear in that story elliptical and time with his family,
Get em tweeting against the advice of every as a lawyer. He has they're all telling him not to things and he's just like I dont care, so they're doing a great job. There has in meeting verbal briefings because he'd husband Ricky He just doesn't like reading like reading my favorite is when he learned the New York Times is writing this peace, but his four hours of television time of day he went back to the press cabin therefore one and talk about how you so busy reading documents he's got referring to them has done what I love it. I wonder, is it because of the documents I love God? I love, though, that you sort of little like oh, like weeds. It's like I always like a fishing at all. I remember when he did that he got angry about, would it wasn't connected any specific allegation it turns out. He received an inquiry, jack about those articles. Thirty agonies of body bag of the uncertainty principle like that Donald Trump is changed when Maggie Haven observes. Obviously we could be laughing or crag about others. I I to say tell it like it was. I feel like it was
not more crazy and what we ve seen in the past. Like I didn't find it too young. There could be a version article that made it seem like he was in some kind of rapid and deeply terrifying descent. But I found it this horrible reality of ours, heartening to see that the status quo anti, where he was on January. Twenty first continues, which is watching for hours at all, in a day and having no sense of the importance of his own up. I laugh because it's all I got it, but the thing that really scared me was every single one of his advisers, told in your times that he has trouble sorting a fact from fiction, and you couple that, with like some of the bachelor crazy people that he has in his White House, like MIKE Flynn, famously told the defence intelligence Agency, that IRAN was behind the bit Gaza attacks and go, prove it and make it. So so if you have people like selling shit like that to him in a time of crisis, that gets unbelievably scary. Yet, partly because you know Maggie in their great writers, they like paid to this picture of you know, cookie, president comes to Washington remains kooky Ghana, but when you step back
and think about the consequences of again. You know we may be in the best part of the trunk presidency and you think about the threats for north korean. What's goin on all over the world, and you like this kind of behaviour at the wrong moment, making a certain decision could be catastrophic. And also other than one of the most interesting thing in the peace and Maggie treated. This out was sure to one point there. Tell them a plan apart from preemption self defense of session an impulse to this whole like is he trying to distract us from something else? Is this a strategy to do this? There is no strategy here, there's only like how do I get through
the headline in the peace hour by hour battle for self preservation. So I think you're right right, so we should be obviously at all times terrified, because events are coming, the world is coming, there will be a crisis, and then this person will be in this job, but with the sense I get when I read these articles about what Europe is doing, is it's not that he's misusing the presidency? Is that he's not doing? The presidency has abdicated the presidency. I feel, like every president, spends a year being told what to do by the White House being sort of added and and buffet by the job itself and then over time and there's no way to teach you are out of control. Learn you learn how to be present in every president. Does then they all discard the mistakes they made and they all they all come down to? Oh, I forgot. I was president and I decide with his job as
you read this article. We see that this is a person who can't learn who can adapt. He has stepped into this role. He is unable to perform the functions, and what that means is there's no control. This unhappy, we just don't really have a president right, we'll have a twitter, a competent president. A combat administration could have done like fifty percent more damage at elderly. I gave a tightening, he doesn't see. The presidency is a job. He sees it as a role that he starring in its a pie, Muscat accolades for rice. Oh that's how he string is treated as a job to perform so funny him like reading the news and does not see himself for a couple days in being just what controversy by night cause, I'm which tracks with what happened. You know it is interesting in their art. There are days when he falls out of the news once in a while and then already that the same will happen acre when house back in, and you think did something bad happened to hear about something with mauler. That's, maybe not the case. May be just what happened is here?
I'm pretty bored. I want to get back yet its that's right. We also owe must be afraid of some story. That's coming! It just turns out that Donald Trump wants to mean the news every few days, and every few days is an administrative, defining scandal, and we see we connect them, but he'd innocent it does it. Snaps is on fire, Ok, when we come back, we will talk to the Atlantic's Julia by the Americans Roger by Omaha stakes. Are you struggling to find the perfect differ? Someone who has it all? Yes, you know they don't have a bunch of a master. How it is fast approaching order gifts for everyone on your list, with the click of a mouse, get the perfect gift and avoid the miles lines and cry. I am thinking of it, I'm doing all they that everyone's like away from the model and the bustle of the holiday season. They got it. Stamps from home and get your stakes at home, cooked your food at home. All your things at home get your razors
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on the show. Today we have friends the POD Atlantic's Julia Yuppie, who wrote a has a new peace in the Atlantic called Putin's game. Julia welcome to the shop thanks for having me guys hi. How are you that's my chipper radio voice. That's great get your radio, I okay, so the thrust of your peace is Vladimir Putin is playing you now, three d chess he's gambling he's playing black Jack explain what that means in the term broader point you're trying to make with that comparison shore. So we to think of Lattimer Putin or we ve come to think of him here in the U S, especially in the last year s kind of villainous. Master mind something out of James Bond he who has a grand strategic vision that is very detailed and that he is able to carry out and execute, but a more accurate description of how
operates? Is that he has kind of a long term goal which is to create friction fur America on the world stage and to maybe back at America for what he sees us regime change via the color evolutions in a former of the republics and in the Middle EAST, and things like the arab spring, which he blames the CIA four and then he'll do kind of like first and second step and the rest till figure out as he goes along. So he at kind of acts very emotionally is a lot of kind of needs, glass, minute decision making that he does and doesn't really think about the consequences at them. In the moment, he kind of its as you know, will cross that bridge when we get there. If we get there and, as a result, a lot of these actions that we described Wow he's totally running circles around us in Ukraine and Crimea or in Syria, or with our elections and twenty sixteen, but these things and,
going back and biting him in the dairy? Are you crazy accusation yeah slowly ass, ass, ass, your piece is really smartness incredibly well reported and everyone should go, read it and I think it gets it. Something that's bothered. Alot of people have been watching the response of the election hacking unfold over last year, which is like unfortunately we're in a place in our work, every Russia, connection is held up as some huge deal too much is being ascribed Putin, but There is also the other reality that, like you, can do great harm in cause damage without a broader strategic plan. How do you sort of like hold up both those eyes your head at the same time, if you're, the? U S, government in figure out response that might be able to deter them from these kinds of activities. Also, I think the problem unfortunately, is in part in how the media has been covering it and television media has been covering at that every new email- that's fine, and every new link,
russian or meeting is held up as this kind of smoking gun, with this kind of tacit implication that Trump going to step down tomorrow and he's not going to history with us as long as we have this republican Party, we're stuck with him for the next. I don't know three years two members were not whose counter and as opposed to looking at this as a national security issue and as a broader political issue. The fact that the Russians were able to get the kind of salt they got with now a lot of sophisticated stuff and a lot of strategic operative genius says, is a kind of an indictment of our political culture of our media literacy of, if you know of all the things that we create that the Russians to create. So we have to look at ourselves and think about the fact that the Russians didn't create
I'll trump, the Russians didn't create Fox news. They didn't crape bright Bart, they didn't create info wars, they didn't create an incredibly polarized course, they certainly didn't create the first, though you know the racist backlash to the first black president didn't create the electoral college out of this stuff was there they just kind exploited what we gave them. So we have to think about that Secondly, as we have to think of, This has a national security issue and as a cyber security issue, but unfortunately, under this administration in part, because this present feel so warmly toward Vladimir Putin, another strong men and in part because is stubborn ends under so much pressure when it comes to Russia that he has not. And his administration has not given the green light to are cyber security, counter intelligence forces that we have an intelligence, community, they're kind of just sitting
idly by and waiting for a signal to counter attack to defend America and there's no signal so there's no command to go, and that's also problem yeah, and you just made this point one of the things that Michael hidden said to you. I think in the peace was covered, influence vibrations dont, create divisions on the ground they amplify them. I sometimes wonder you know we have a hard time wrapping our heads around what happened to us and twenty sixteen, because it is difficult for us to admit to ourselves that propaganda works on us like it's one thing: if Russia hacked our election machines, but if you have people's minds, is sort of aid, trickier thing to both admit and then guard against, but I wonder like
I feel, like the Russians, have had a quite a long history with the uses of propaganda like what are some of the ways that societies could prevent against. You know a prop up a propaganda attack from a foreign actor, as we look ahead to twenty eighteen and twenty point. So I just want to push back the premise of that a little bit, which is, I agree with you that I think it's hard for us to wrap our heads around what happened in twenty sixteen, but I I would say the vast majority of the propaganda the american voter were subject to twenty. Sixteen was American made oh yeah abroad, no more so than Russia for accidently, and I think it's much easier for us to blame somebody else. I think it's a basic human trade. Really embodied by this president that you it's never, fault. It's always somebody else else's fault. It's not that you lost the popular vote by three million votes There was a shady plot of illegal,
immigrants voting against you. So I, when we see it everywhere and in to me, it's very russian. It's a very Putin, ask response, this was how the russian government out with very organic grassroots per democracy, protests in twenty eleven and twenty twelve. They blamed the Americans. They blame the the department, the CIA and in I've, been kind of experiencing deja vu here cause what I saw then and twenty twelve and then again in twenty fourteen when Russia invaded ukraine- and there is jingoistic craziness was that russian, who had any connection to an American, an american friend if this Russian ever studied in America or visited in America. This was. Nicholas Suspect and this person is automatically a trader to Russia, because much easier to explain. Your failings by blaming them on somebody else, and its is much sexier too given this John Mccrae Novel,
the conversations I have in hashtag, this town in Washington you know about, it's. It's so cloaks and daggers and is often people who are about my age, who missed the cold war and who really want to you now give it a go and experience that, as opposed to thinking about really kind of vague, nebulous and unsexed things like Americans, media literacy, or you know, the effects of mechanization and globalization or campaign financed reform or the fact that we have institutionalized minority role because of Jerry? and ring and the electoral college. These are very kind of big hard to tackle and sexy things, whereas this is very easy there's a guy in a big chair, stroking about
and his name is Vladimir Putin and he's responsible. No own does exactly right. I guess the point I want to make us. It seems like it's going to be extraordinarily difficult to guard against this in the future, from a nationals thirty standpoint because, like whatever their capabilities are all they need to do is, like you know, falsified document or leak. One email and all the divisions that are present within the United States are going to do. The job, for politics is one document and Jim COM you sold on the whole thing tat. We think about giving the? U s pretty low taxi. Dear point giants like for me, it's like Think the Russians are the reason Hillary Clinton loss, but I think the fact that you know, despite all this evidence, a third of the kind we won't believe that they were involved, but somehow rather blame the Democratic Party than the Russians is is probably more instructed than anything that happen before the election itself. Yeah, I mean just the shift- that's happened. Also. The fact that you know Democrats have become incredibly hawkish on Russia and Republicans
Party of Reagan, who called at the centre of evil in the modern world for revert Russia. Norway our now Buddy Buddy with Russia, because you know Russia help their guy when so it's just such has been such a mind. Fuck, you know fighting for everybody say I wouldn't say ass before. But now I feel now you very let me know you least me doctrine user of hinted at the end you know. Putin is announced his re election. Good luck, Sir twenty deity, you think he's gonna win. Just I'm waiting with bated breath. I will find out, I think so many of our fears are wrapped up in this one. Little judo loving man near Times peace and the US or of how the secession a struggle hoop for who comes after Putin is, is happening concurrently with prudence reelection, you know, ballpark it for us you think things get worse, did they get better or we might like to see a continuation of Putin like policies, because that's the only way you can sort of maintain control of a country in decline, and so many other ways. So this
One of the things I try to get out, and this piece is that Putin has Proper Did this vision to his citizens, which is Russia's always on the brink of collapse, and he is the only one standing between a hundred forty four million Russians and the abyss, and that if he were to go, everything would fall apart. And there would be bloodshed and chaos and economic decline. Unfortunately, by being power for so long by personalizing, his rule for so long. He has assured that this is probably what will happen when he goes because Fortunately, no man is immortal and he will die one day or he will be ousted one day and a lot of the things that he has spent. Nearly twenty years. Scaring his countrymen about will happen because of how, he rolled the reason Russia's in decline is because of his policy it is because of the
ambient corruption and Russia. Because of the fact that civil society has been completely raised and levels with the ground, because there is no political competition, because there is no competition of any sort in Russia and because he has spent the last twenty years, feeding them from population real, jingoistic and kind of violin nationalist propaganda, so when she says kind of you'll miss me when I'm gone. He might be right, but he created that reality. He sat Russia up for that kind of grim future. So the one theory of collusion that I would say might be supported by your piece. Is this idea that you know. If Russia really is more hapless than we have allowed ourselves to believe, and they don't have this extremely sophisticated.
Prodigy or understanding of the american political system in a sort of got lucky then- and I know that you know my quarters raises questions in the Senate. Committees have raised this, but you know the the targeting of sort of some of the fake news. Facebook add stuff seems to have been incredibly sophisticated and precise here in the United States So then the question is well yeah. If, if Russia to know what they were doing and they just kind of got lucky, how did they know how to target all of these precincts, in which case it is maybe they had help with what are you so crazy here? I don't think it's crazy, but I dont think we know the answer just get. I think it is it's really hard to kind of Spain the moment and stay with what we know and the facts we have and not to run ahead. I think that
The Russians have gotten tremendously more sophisticated when it comes to understanding our political process, but there still not that sophisticated that sir, If you really wanted to target all these points, thanks and figure out where the battleground states and counties were all you need- is a computer. All of this, as out there on you now, five thirty, eight and cooks political report and sabotage you know if you really get in weeds of american political reporting. It's all there. You know and and this way the Russians are a lot like I like, comparing to the nine eleven terrorists. They used our system against us. You know they use the openness of our system. The fact that we have a lot of him- nation out there be because that this is not. You know an author Terry and dictatorship. You can access this stuff and target things you also have you definite
a willingness to collude from the Trump sighed Anne you add on the far right, a definite affinity with the Russians with this Of white Christian nationalistic- ah, yes global north versus the Global South kind of streams of thought wit with that dovetailed might nicely, and even after the election you see how, in places like the Atlantic, also have done a great job documenting this. How the far right, like the autumn twitter sphere and info wars, how they launder russian dismal. Nation and propaganda how they take em let's start somewhere on the run, an internet or russian official media, and then they launder it and make it their own case in point was when they said you know the hashtag Syria hopes when there was that for weapons attack by the syrian regime in April of twenty seventeen
and it was in the russian government's interests to defend aside, and they said no, it was a hoax. It was actually the rebels who gas there on people to frame Assad's government and you can you can see the chain- you can see how info wars and the all right and and Richard Spencer and all those people just took it and ran with it and a kind of guy, both ways they sit online, they sit on Twitter, thereon. Facebook, the Russians are and there's a lot of give and take times the Russians are running with what the American but our sphere, the american internet produces, and sometimes there trying to inject means back into our discourse. So if that makes it hard to trace, he has obviously they just have a better illiteracy than we do now they have they have so. The reporting that's coming out of Russia is also, the interesting and this is kind of where Putin S work, has really
paid off right, like he completely almost completely annihilated independent journalism in Russia, but the people who are left have done some amazing reporting and what they ve shown. Is this you know the famous troll factory that Adrian Chen wrote about the New York Times magazine a couple years ago that they had. You know a bunch of people working in shifts from here or longer than a year on Twitter on Facebook in I'm in sections all over the internet and the? U S and what was interesting to me about that- is these- were college students at the University of in Petersburg which, as you know, the number to school and Russia? This is that you know Russia second capital very kind of very eastern eyes to very progressive, very european their college students they were students in Middle EAST studies, Linguistics journalism. These were a kind of the college elite, and these are people who are familiar with western culture.
Who were using VP ends the Europeans every they had used to? You know, watch Netflix and to watch all the american shows that we watch where then using the Europeans to attack us and what I thought was so interesting about that was in others, the demographic that we in the West Assume, as the most naturally anti Putin that they're the ones always itching to go out into the streets and topple him, and here they are because they're making twice the monthly average monthly salary by just you know, trolling people on Twitter doing Putin's dirty work fast, and so what I learned TAT, I was prudent not as powerful as we make to be too don't argue and common section could tie a russian quality. Three. The Russians were colluding with five thirty, eight, so neat, we're coming for you, mothers, column, Yanks, tough news for that stuff
Julia arranging, for joining us in Turkey for keeping us all sane and sensible with this Peter at a really really great peace. Can't you guys and credible search, ok tug, do it. I thought I thought by the Americans to movement, watches, move and watch was founded on the belief, it style shouldn't break the bank. We want one minimalism and revolution Mary prices, John, you, basically child coax today, the president, so many holiday shopping can be tough, but thanks to movement, all that give giving anxiety can disappear with a simple press quit stressing out. These watches make the perfect purchased for just about any one in your life guy or girl, and remember they start only ninety five doll, its content, risk by your friends are moving watch lax on the different
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he's going to bed with caffeine coursing through his bloodstream. But distract yourself got you a nice dinner with some friends and then page other back with the cash and with the cash the code is pod. Save what I've dollars goes to you and Tommy, whereas the other five dollars go to Jose and efforts to help people in Portugal, but dont from Seti solve that. I don't think you do. Five dollars, you five dollars to relief work. Would we using anymore but not using the other apps anymore? John, I get the cash out today we're so the cash out, we're not using other absent- the plan we have with us the host of positive people during the current three. How are you gonna get a great tribute here great to have you drink update my romp him is here. I have it it's a little snug on the fence about whether Oliver out, where publicly, how to put it another way that Morocco we like
yeah yeah and weakens. I had a lover where it really because week, I'm thinking about it, I think about it. Every Garcia now. I haven't still trying to that image of hygiene now asked me in the mirror: love love it from your picture. Ok, Drivers on the show. This week we have Tom. We all have a former chair there to see who holds chair when that got faster, that doping than we have today: Barracuda Disability rights activists. She is a little person and learn so much so its grave. That's excellent! Go,
and I saw that you have a new ever that you want in Florida for a voter registration tongue but little bit yet where she could helping out incredible organizers have been doing so much work out there. So they need about seven hundred thousand good signatories. Ina. There are two million people. What our camp over six million an ex felons across the country, gave a one of four black people forget about his wild, so be it worked with Don T. Just like provide additional capacity. Should they ve been doing incredible work getting signatures. We help them launch a mailing campaign to Malay, petitioned the people across or make it disappear up a petition in, but we also have the organised on their or at the very beginning, third arrogant, lady Gaga concert getting signatures. We help them. Do that so they may be submitted by the end of January that and if you go to Florida that our states that work you can help, you can help either male petitions to people or you can
sign a petition. If you ever Florida Square grateful to you, that's a very big deal. You know we just saw your term calleth citizen in Virginia successfully and rain franchised excellence, and you know it makes a huge differences, especially so these people before the election, what it meant to them that they were able the vote was. I was inspiring Sonya openness it last year account you know it carry carrier. She lot Mccall of law structure. I could do it said Kitty stay the governor of the day. This is a big other Democrat. One scale have to sign the order, a person by a person to give actuality their right to vote back because they have not had been able to pass legislation. To do so. Hopefully, we're gonna, let if it affects our some structural, factual and Virginia getting us partial, Fixy Interflora be huge. Can again, if only million account every country looking about two million of them live in Florence will be the single biggest rear franchise made upon the table right now,
yeah. I drew we had all been emailing about this video of Daniel Shaver, who was shot by the police in one of one of the more chilling pieces of video I've ever seen in my life, easier, clearly complying he's on the ground, he's crying he's begging for his life, and he is just executed by this cop, who will soon seemingly see no penalty for his actions. Do you think this recent peace, a video, this piece of evidence, might weak people up, or do you think it's gonna get her of added to the long list of horrifying videos of police misconduct ending in many ways a both riding for those of us who believe in the streets of their ceramic? We out you re, like the police are violated. We talk about a disproportionate impact on people of color, because very this more suited her back, but the truth also
the police are killing my people. This is just one of the first video they become a national story. I hope this helps. White people feel that the issue of police round is not like a fringe issue that doesn't impact them back guy like was, he was the only person who you had to fear my video with the police officer, a key word. As you said, omby amby you like on his stomach like he has no weapons. They let the girl go like he was not a threat to anybody, and if there are people who thought a video and can see themselves elaborate and realise that could be of their funds there, brother nephew their daughter like that, could be any body and like we try to help people see that. But this is not just an issue too inflexible. Color like this is an issue that we need. A dreadful get everybody save image frightening about
thy video is not like people die. Like did the jury thought everyone still accorded. The austrian, like badges, doesn't make sense to me. What does that say to you that to me as like the part that I think is the hardest to grapple with that that people saw that video and agreed with the argument that this was self defense agreed with the argument that this police officer shouldn't pay any kind of a price and like how do you attack that problem, which is about the police, is about the way citizens in our society view the police and product? and the great majority of horrors how they presiding behave. Riper people saw that video inside it. It was not something to punish the here. I want to know what what what part of the video struck out? Do you like all good about this video that made it likes appalling in a way that it is really international conversation? I mean I wouldn't know know what the hell I was supposed to do, the instructions were confusing and contradict free and use the kid couldn't
in a less threatening position with his hands down on the ground. Like, I guess I would hope, in that situation when there's a body camera on the cop, when it's all being filmed that It would be such a massive disincentive to shoot someone in cold blood and execute them, but that didn't stop this cotton doing yeah. I guess for me. It was like, in its this they met always gets me and a lot of these videos that I've seen its when the person is pleading. You know with the police officer or usually sometimes it's a you know, a relative of the person or a friend of the person. Meaning. What the police officer don't shoot. He doesn't have a gun. You know, please, I'm not! I'm not! Here to show you don't have a guy, like his person, clearly pleading for their life, clearly scared and tariffs. I'd and yet somehow were meant to think that the police officers sees. That is a threat. I know it is wild and, like you know, people say that about a camera.
And with interested parties in the organised coolly spot on them, is that there are almost no interest you're ever being held accountable. Were this not video and the video is like one of the only way in which case they would you're not to come up with a pity that the only thing that help people Phoebus like as a real problem, because we, if I explained during your favorite debt to you like people, get Icloud, is really bad but like they're. All these questions are like he might have. Doubts are pretty prowling accompanying. He might have through something like that people's minds earth, but you see them maybe you're like this, a boy was terrified. You know like you're. The videos are either the videos are important year is terrified. Is I guess that's the thing that I don't understand how you make a ship is I think it's it's a question of who you see yourself as in the video like what you're scared of being like? Are you scared of being the purse find a gun, or are you scared of being the person on the ground? Which is why I think, maybe the fact is, a white person might might change things for some people
but even even still like there is still, I think, a block for some people to imagine them lying on the ground that there still likely to sympathise with the person whose worried about whether or not this person is gonna do something whether there really scared. What have you and not able to necessary empathize it? What it's like to be the persons, threatened by the cup. He I think, you're right. You know the police do have like a whole, a separate justice system. As you know, we did the first ever data the police year contracts and across the country and place like often rented the police get access to all
the creation of Cairo before they can be interrogated like Google privatisation as those protection. So I hope that this week, people up either with interesting to see like the National or EU it like yeah reason like they were alarmed about this, and I get you should get longer. This would be any of you, like think about all the instances without a camera, but happened where the police are just like their freak out through what have you learned and clearly this is a systemic issue. What have you learned about, like you know which problems are are occurring during the training and preparation of these officers, where you know if we, if we change that, maybe it would lead to less violence like what're, you know: how do you fix some of the more systemic problems within the police system? Getting it one of the root causes them it promises. It does not count ability, despite everything so
I don't have you thought about that story recently. Are there there that training going on, and it was a white female officer who responded to a white male off by saying that he is like white male privileges on display in this? She got to spend it because he said that he was being about like a defamatory, statement by saying your white male privilege to him. If you have no eyes that, basically to betray me right, training supposed to be replaced or, like you talk about privilege, aiming to look like, he literally got her suspended by thing like he felt like he was being arguing about what a whirlwind were, that the case, letting the trading can be a part of it, but, like a madman, in a professional like despite the training, all no matter what you do, people make an excuse for, and I think that that is actually the regarding, but I believe that police officers my act differently if any of them ever wear out accountable, but like imagine
Do you ever go to work and like doing a safer got killed him? I guess you seem like a like bout. Nothing happened. You kill liking, he gets to work again, you'll get another police department, nobody ever know, and I think that the accountability conversation about investigations about like the lies about who can biotic a boy like those can be actually regarding training body care must also be good, but if, despite everything, you're, not gonna, be out accountable. I don't know how much you are matters you think about Baltimore. You all read were like the entire division of the police department, as has been done, therefore like the drugs beating up people that suffered like how do you? How do you trust that? Take your guy? You know. Well, hopefully, this case draw some more attention to this very, very big problem. Gerais. Thank you so much for joining us and we'll talk isn't going out and I are gonna those technologies.
The picture of a random coming here to register with drought. We are in the end we address here Bio thoughts they both to share should do you know what China Diametric bickering, while all again on Thursday thicker Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, we ought to say we are not happy Hanukkah.
Transcript generated on 2020-04-01.