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“Jerry Nadler’s Revenge!” (LIVE from Salt Lake City)


The House inches closer to impeachment after Trump’s racist week, CNN selects the Democratic debate lineups with an NBA lottery-style drawing, and Stacy Stanford from the Utah Health Policy Project joins Jon, Jon, Tommy, Dan, and Erin Ryan on stage in Salt Lake City, Utah.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Salt lake: I want you to know something I had a feeling you'd be like this
you recall later in the show, we'll talk to Stacey staffer from the Utah Health policy project. First, let's get to the news yes What other things going to happen? What do you think was going to happen in week where Trump was formally condemned by the house for telling for Congress of Color to leave America. Support for impeachment is grow. On Wednesday. On Wednesday, a record. Ninety five Democrats voted to move forward on an impeachment resolution introduced by Representative Al Green of Texas, the house also voted to hold Trump's attorney general and the commerce secretary in criminal contempt of Congress for defying
is about Trump's attempt to rig the census. On top of all this new court documents released today offered more evidence of the president's role as an unindicted co conspirator in the illegal hush money scheme that, when did Michael Cohen in jail and Robert Muller, is tested next week? A lot of crimes guys a lot of crying? Let's start with L Greens impeachment resolution, which says that trumps racist statements have open discord among the american people and proved him unfit to be President Dan. What do you think about the substance and the strategy behind that resolution? Well, the subject Definitely true yeah right. What he said was racist. That has true it has. It has underscored so Factcheck correct the the timing of it. I think it's unfortunate because there is this was a day where the democratic, so standing United against Trump's racist comments
and standing united against the efforts of Trump's lead, William Barr and Wilbur Ross by censoring them, for, if to abide by congressional So this is supposed to be a day of unity, and this is publicity stunt it. Done that and so disunity on that day. I think, ultimately it does it matter that much and I think it's going to make us more or less likely to have about whether trust me. Feast not, but I think, It certainly was an unfortunate distraction on a day that was supposed to send a powerful signal, not just in the country, but also the democratic voters who sent Congress there, kind of the way we think about Trump basically used it to. You know vindicate himself to some of your I mean it was annoying. It was a real data point he could point to you but I think he knew it was no way because of the impeachment motion, but a impeachment. This is the key question, John, because they were a bunch of trump officials talking to reporters on background, saying they weren't sure. If Trump realized it didn't mean that he was out of the woods like there's some his own.
Staff thought he might think that Each one is now off the table now, I'm sure I'm sure they clarified it after the fact, but whatever I mean whatever Trump is like king of latching, on to whatever it will take to get into the next fifteen seconds of the new cycle. Yes, he said as much at that, cysts pseudo Nuremberg rally that he held the other day we use, like you said like if I had said what some of these members of the squad had said. You know they would have come for me. It would have been over he's like he's like we get through it. We always do, but you know I think that The green impeachment measure going down won't ultimately matter at all so Aaron a few other members of Congress came out today for impeachment Congressman Bill Pascrell of New Jersey. Said, and he had an interesting reasoning when he released a statement. He said that trumps abuses of power quote have not
aided but accelerated because of our failure to constrain him. What do you think of that argument? And do you think the politics of impeachment have changed over recent weeks? So, first of all, let's take a moment to recognize a bill. Pascrell is now a part of the squad because of an onion article. That was a satirical tweet that he tweeted at the members. The squad, and they were like sure, and now he doing it like he's like sitting at their lunch table now and they're like no, I think they're like yeah it's bill. He can hang out with us. There's always like one weird member of a click of five people and he's the one that it's like, oh yeah, that's like so is. Is that your dad? No? No, he just he hangs out he's cool. He stands up for impeachment, like we stand up for impeachment. We're all. In this world who, in one squad we're gonna, have to change the merits of the squad merge by adding, but I Think that, in terms of the politics of impeachment,
something that seems to be tricky and frustrating to watch because you know it seems like Congress is very responsive on this topic to polling. But the fact of the matter is pull NG doesn't determine that their job is to uphold their duty as prescribed in the constitution. Whether or not people like it. That is their job, and so it it's nice to see pub. I think public sentiment and the sentiment of actual representatives is moving more toward impeachment, but it's shame that it's so fold into polling 'cause it it shouldn't be. I think I think, on a week like this is when it really hits you because to stand up there and tell you know for women of color who are elected members of Congress
leave America. They actually won their popular votes by the way. All of them yeah right was like for him to tell them to leave America to see that rally where they are chanting. Sender, home, you know, get like it is you re, I was like okay Democrats: don't have a ton of power right now. We can't pass legislation 'cause, we only have the house, but they do have the power to impeach him and what Pascarella saying here is that, like his abuse, is have not abated, but accelerated is really interesting. 'cause he's basically saying by not doing anything by just sitting back and watching Donald Trump is basically saying: ok. Well now I can do whatever the fuck. I want because they're too afraid to impeach me yeah, I mean it's not only that Democrats seem as though they're afraid to impeach if we're following this logic also the Republicans are afraid to do any fucking thing at all. Anything like, I'm imagining them all like going into their bathrooms, closing the door and whispering into the mirror like that.
The extent of what they're doing nobody hears it. Nobody sees it their likes talking into a paper bag and sealing it up and throwing it in the garbage. When nobody is looking at that- and so let's not forget- I was told, like series of Scenarios Tommy, I will go through with you after the show love, but it's just a, but I think that there's a lot a general lack of courage in general and it's quick, it's good to see more people standing up, love it. There is a a store in politico that said that the I like where this is going to have a that. The Democrats are moving so slow in carefully because they are trying to. You know, collect the evidence, We can win a court battle to try to get some of these documents and that's why they're moving so slow. They want to be careful. Others have said they're doing this, because they're just trying to run out the clock on it and they're trying to wait for the moment where they can say well now we're in the heat of a presidential campaign. Obviously we're not going to impeach him now and that's that, so what do you think it is, and you know what should happen.
So both things can be true. It can be true that there is that there are important procedures playing out in the court. It can also be true that many people up this out because they want to see impeachment go away. I think, when I come down on what I start looking it's you know dance made this point That now Muller is going to testify right before they. Go home and they're about to Democrats about to hear from a lot of members their constituent that they're angry that they want impeachment. We're running out of time running out of time to actually do this to me start saying: if we don't start impeachment in the fall that we that we do it now, there's an election coming up and if we don't start impeachment the process in September, it means it can't happen before we start in primaries and there's something about the image of Democrats voting to choose the person they want to face Trump running up against Democrats trying to impeach Trump. That feels confusing to me.
We have one shot to make the case against Donald Trump, an impeachment I'm starting to view the fall as a great compromise. If you for a skittish, moderate Democrat from a suburban district Silly jumping at shadows, very antsy you know, there's you know, there's there those experiments where they shine a light and then shocker at and and those rats learn resilience, they knew when the shock was coming, then you went to hide, and then there were the rats where the light and the shock were random and those It's just lie down and take the shocks compromise is, if you believe you, if you don't want to be talking about impeachment at twenty twenty guess, what the falls the chance to do it, if you believe impeachment is the
responsibility of democrats- and you fear for the country that fails to impeach a president is evil with this than the is the moment to do impeachment, and so my view is care about the courts anymore? I wish we had time. I wish we had time, and so it's going to be incumbent on Democrats to believe we have a moral and even political responsibility to impeach this president to talk to their members this summer. The pressure on them in August, so that when we come back in September, it is clear that it is now or never, and we cannot play this clock game anymore. Somos going to testify. Next week then what do you want to hear? What would you ask Miller? What would you want to hear- And should our expectations be also, I should ask like Whenever there's a lowering expectation question it comes to make yeah. I know you'll be dark for I mean is told us he's been pretty clear that they're going to be no. There would be no news here right here.
Everything has to say put in the report, and I think it's important for the members of Congress who were doing this- do not try to be like the lawyer for a few good men and try to get a like a code red moment out of all of like what is really really affected, is just getting Mueller to in a coordinated say say it out loud, say out loud on camera, for the nation to see exactly what he wrote in that report, two bigger just like. Could you please read the executive summary for the next two hours like I like we like he's not going to say that stuff about Bill bar he's not going to say that Trump should be indicting, be super careful. Let's just get him to say what he knows because more people see the movie, then read the book, so you can get him to get to a live reading
of the mall a report out there, I think that would have real value and explain to the country just what the president and like an as is often the case. There are those pad and to say that the book was better. Oh wow, yes, but Jurassic Park. The book now. That's now that's a story, honestly, if you have a very good book on our an audio book like a file, I would walk down the aisle to that Robert Miller, I mean, even if you just ask Robert Muller with there's, stangel evidence that the President obstructed justice he's going to say. Yes, he said so in there for like he. Just those moments on television will be a big deal. Did you exonerate the president? Yes or no now use did use President says you said there was no collusion. Is that true, yes, or no, like there's very easy, factual things to get on the record? That will look incredibly damning for Donald Trump yeah think now all of us should lower expectations get those x.
Haitians lower is Jim CALL issues a report about a president or presidential candidate that mother sprints to the microphone Bobby Muller he's hanging back by the six. I just hope that all of the Democrats on the committee coordinate second question the biggest problem, the congressional hearings with members of Congress. I just think like in general the fewer words in Miller's answers, the better because can't be any wishy washy Nous. There can't be any slipperiness on this like if we have a video of saying yes or no, that's more powerful than him saying like kind of wavering. One word exactly I get cut in. I guess one more tactical thing: you'll be a for Democrats. The gap is to have Once again, like you did this press conference elucidate the threat to our elections in twenty twenty, because we still need to put pressure
Congress administration. Actually do something protect us or at least have the american people know. The Donald Trump is leaving the door open for Putin a walk through so yeah. That's a good point. The Republican was, what are the all? If you ask him there are you know I don't wear diamond in silk being silent during the dot, the a you know: wasn't: wasn't there deep state who did let's talk about the lovers, you know, and they all have all that bullshit Hannity's all of it's going to come out. I'm a I'm eager to see that because. Robert Muller is just magnificent square. Jaw is going to cut through that stuff like butter like it that On ruffle unruffled, all I b ruffled you start talking about this, but we have Muller's. Testimony will be next week and then they're gonna all going to all leave for August recess. I don't know what they,
serve it to their bill Harley two weeks with our arns. Well, what does that do to the momentum behind impeachment that has been growing with both this week and you know, presumably with Muller's testimony well, I think the Good NEWS is. I do not believe the momentum has been growing because of what's actually taking place day today in Congress right, I think them. The the recounts. Prince in the absence of the Trump administration, has been actually doing a lot of the work, as has been activism Trump is getting worse at so so it's a guy that what I said before is true with the momentum will be up to voters who will be up to you, ordinary people to make clear that they are. Watching and that they care about this issue. I think there's a lot of Democrats based on punditry who convinced themselves that there are the real issues, people care about, and then there's processing, holding company, countable and making clear
Those are one in the same for a lot of people that they're really paying attention is important that there's a real political price for Democrats to pay if they fail to understand how Pash, the voters who elected them are about this issue especially true for if you have a modern member or a member who was just elected in twenty eighteen those members are gonna respond to their constituents right. Like Katie Porter came out from teaching a couple weeks ago she flipped a pretty rip looking district in Orange County that it never sent to Democrats in Congress. You know decades decades anchor packed. In Arizona she's men are plus one district. You know she came up for peace with this week, like they it if those rep I know that more and their district are calling and saying you should open an impeachment inquiry. They're gonna, do it like there respond to that, and so when these members go home in August, if you're right here in one or an independent or whatever and you're in one of these districts and
Amber still on the fence, you should go to this town halls and tell them that they should do this, because what say right now is none of insurgents care about this. They care about healthcare, they care about other issues, but they don't really mind about impeachment. So I'm not doing anything pressure will work on these demo. There's a on there is that there is. There is a Greg Sargent out, looked at the polling and and- and it was actually really- I think, important piece of this, which is the new Democrats. The Democrats that help give us, the House majority, tend to be from more conservative districts and a lot of the Democrats who've been in the house for a long time yeah. So a lot of these are these people that we need to convince. They are the New House majority that act, that Democrats, young Democrats, passion people, knocked on doors and got out that helped elect these are the people that are actually in the most. If that view themself being in the most difficult position and I think, like there's, two a man, it's like we're at eighty eight, I think whatever is what he said, and we got to get to half of the two hundred so Democrats, that seems like a long way to go, but there's a there's here and I
advising people on how to think about pressuring Democrats to move in a piece You only need a majority, the Judiciary Committee right right now: six votes away from majority of the House, Judiciary Committee. And so, if your flight is deserve it or cathartic, as it may be to just tweet anger at Nancy Pelosi. The more effective way to do this is to organize in the district focus on the Terrace Disher Committee, because you that will be the pressure were, were be almost impossible. The principles to say no, the majority of the Committee of Jurisdiction is for opening piece. This is incredibly important because Jerry Nadler who The chairman of the Judiciary Committee, it will be his committee that opens the impeachment inquiry he has been noncommittal impeachment up until now, partly because he's in democratic leadership, he does want to piss off and policy during the Al Green Vote
Jerry. Now there was one of the ones who voted to move forward on the impeachment resolution, which is a big deal. So if you ask them today, probably still say, oh, I so want the investigations to continue, but, like I think, Jerry Nadler wants to do that. Jerry. Never absolutely wants to this Donald Trump used to call him fat Jerry. Donald Trump was super mean to him for a really long time, and I don't blame him for holding a grudge and I share is revenge. Yeah. I think I think there is Jerry strikes back, get a call, a Jew from Manhattan, fat and he's not going to remember Let's go Jerry, the you know the judge a to like it getting a majority is hard, but if this starts to look like it's going to happen, they will all fall in line this will this will be like waterfall? I just say one more thing about the politics. It's important. I like listening to your opening here, talking about the rally and trumping involved in a criminal conspiracy to defraud the voting public. Essentially you hear
the things that happen everyday in just in the idea that Trump can say these things up as congressman and his party's. Only fine with that and we're having these amber rallies in North Carolina. It like it kind of it, makes me very worried that our democratic leaders are numb to the scale of the stakes in this election and that you think, like that, we are we're an affront word, an actual crossroads for who who we want to be as a country, and we can the weighted defeat. What, with what is happening here, is running poll tested calculated campaigns, it's a grassroots movement of millions of Americans when you do that, not by being small and cautiously to be big and brave, and if what happens- and that is, I think it's really important. Everyone talks about the lessons of twenty eighteen. It's like we ignored, ignored trunk. We talked about health care. We do this. The true lesson is that after the election, millions
people started, knocking on doors. The next day and showing up at marches- and they do if we don't match that enthusiasm in twenty we will lose yeah. No, I I it's like you had said that you have to put down the pole and ask yourself like what you feel in your gut about this, and it's like. Does this feel like normal politics, or does this feel like something different and scary? And I think after this week you look at and say you know we could be had in a pretty good up to a pretty dark place. I that moral argument, but I've been a hack about this, and I am now fully convinced of the politics and he's been- are better than the policy of whatever that was and how well, because I will like I know we- we talked about this the other night, but I was very near Chris about the Democratic Party being completely divided, and this thing's going south and teaching degree and
Utter lack of oversight and accountability from the house when we control Congress is leading a bunch of people who voted to think? Why did I care? Why did I try so hard? And if we don't Let people know that there is a reward that comes from working, your ass off to vote for people and get them to elected office. Then why will they do it again? this is from a pure from a pure political calculus to like the house. Representatives voted to condemn Donald Trump's racism this week with the resolution like what is a realist, the resolution has no teeth right. It's just to pass a resolution. Does anyone think the Donald Trump had a good we this week? Okay, crazy, every time, something how things that Donald Trump had a good dot yeah he he just did not get out of the parking today Donald, but they are really good. I think the politics of what happened this week. They were not good. The fact that Republicans today had to send a message trying to stop saying some of things he's been saying, I think, are not good for him. The fact that for Republicans did join in the resolution,
nothing, it's not zero, and- and so I think that does matter and also just in- I do think it's worth remembering to, and this is the darkest rd argument to me for impeachment. I don't want to look back yeah, having not done it, but not having use this power at this critical juncture and wondering if we should have done more, do everything we can now I win or lose now it's time for okay, stop roll! The clip in the panel can say: okay, stop at any point to comment high school debate. It's a. Some of America's sharpest minds to use logic and reason and unleash it on the world's problems. Oprah Winfrey Elizabeth Warren Ben Shapiro
Anyway, Ben took a break from cost playing, as America's little brother is rebellious conservative phase, because his mom left his dad for a guy. She met canvassing for Obama to share to share his thoughts on bond James Bond. Let's watch say that there's a beautiful woman who is playing James Bond like Lashawn let's say, and now she wants to produce the most handsome man is that in any way difficult Bond, is about the guns in the girls. When it comes to the seduction of women, And there is a very, very large difference between a. It's hard it's hard to hear an to watch. But I got to pick up artists Mysterio, you have a hat big earrings and he was all that negging women and making them feel bad and that's how you got a date. This entire analysis is derived from reading that guy's book.
Yeah also, like I'm, really the about I'm being upset that he has to look at a beautiful woman on screen like if, as as an as in like a person who claims to be a heterosexual man, wouldn't that be something that you would prefer to watch like when you watch porn. Do you just like zoom in on the one corner were like the guy's chest, Tommy Ashley Drake, and then we, the lesbian, back to this? Because okay, so I know the let's talk about where be an aspect, an aspect of in come in. I, let's take a part of this seriously, which is the idea that part of what
central to James Bond character is that he is a man whose charisma, handsomeness and. By ability, I him incredible: I seduction abilities over women and that is part the appeal, but that may if woman would not have to work as hard to seduce a man, so barring double seven being a lesbian using logic. She will not have to show as much prowess Anna much ability to seduce men and therefore will have lost some of what is central to the character. James mommies yeah. That's it yeah, but I mean in the serious part here thing: must be going pretty fucking well for you. If the greatest threat that you can find is losing James bond. Is your mail at all lesbian? Let's assume that she's not for a second. Let's assume that that she is just black female James Bond, which means that she's betting, the most handsome men that is not in any way they wish for
fantasy for the men who typically watch the bond film one. Maybe a wish fulfillment fantasy for women who watch bond films is to see a black female James bond. Maybe men don't all watch James Bond for Wish fulfillment fantasy. If I also take it back John, what do you? What do you think I was watching gadgets if you think I'm watching Daniel Craig a James Bond, because I'm in love with Daniel Crag truly deeply actually for real in love with them? Shame on you! I want to see if the guy he thinks is. His friend is not really his friend, but as enemy yeah. That's what I'm there for I'm going to break in the gadgets. That's all I watch James Bond for the articles.
Ensure bond the bond audiences mail, For James Bond to be completely sex about this, ok, the challenge for Jay sucks Watt sexist here comes the six. Oh, my god. Well let me Gerd my loins for Ben Shapiro being a sexist little elf screaming into a microphone at one point: five speed. Somehow, all the time that's right, that's obviously been part of the trope of the series. Is this conquest driven mentality? if I now they're trying to make it as though he has to be in a relationship every movie because they're trying to make it as though he is not ok, stop like if this is what he's like he's denigrating relationships, because he wants James Bond to have more it's more aspirational to have one get to fuckaround rather than times. What
ok, but that was always the appeal above is in every movie. He was going to somehow seduced most beautiful woman in the movie into bed with him, and this is what made him an idol to. Millions of men, of course, would like to seduce beautiful women, but are incapable of doing so because there's a actual case without lot of projection there. This is great when they telling himself at the very end, that was that was better than I thought. I was interested in this clip. You know the Some important thing to me about this conversation about whether a double oh seven can be a black women is like the qualities that we view as irreducible, in a character right, like nobody, was bothered when Daniel Craig went went up. Sorry, on the mind when, when James Bond went from being a brunette to a blonde right, obviously not essential to the character and people you know in America. We certainly didn't care that James Bond, scottish and then went to. I don't know well sure whoever the fight doesn't matter us so I'll just
so I'll, just a bunch of people we meet in war one so it doesn't matter, but but but he's. Actually, I think revealing something important which is there. There are a lot of men who might have trouble. Seeing a woman as a character through which they could have a fantasy that they could put them in her shoes and experience the through her eyes and live vicariously through a female character, and I don't think that that's it's wrong to be angry, that you don't get to do that automatically, but I don't, but I do think it's worth remembering that, like that is the aliens of gender that is so important for so many people that actually making a bond character now would do a lot to help fix. Right. I also wanted to add. Phoebe Waller Bridge who is from who is fleabag. Is writing the new James Bond and She sees this. My prayer to the gods is
she opens James Bond with a scene of a tiny right wing pundit yelling about a black female superhero? Getting his ass kicked! That's a and that's! Okay! Stop well talk about twenty and twenty. Just minutes ago, CNN conducted a live NBA lottery style, drawing to the candidate lineup for the second set of democratic primary debates to be by Anderson Cooper in Detroit on July, 30th and 31st. On the first night, on the first night we Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders people; ok, we're not gonna, be able to do this for other kind of, let me say the names we know you have favorites. On the first night, we have a little bit more and Bernie Sanders people to judge better work, any clubs or TIM Ryan, John Hickenlooper, Marianne Williamson, John Delaney and Steve Bullock. On the second night, we have Job
Kamel, Kamala Harris who, in Castro intriguing Cory, Booker, Jay, Inslee, Kirsten and Tulsi Brent, Gabbard, Michael Bennett, and build the blasio Clap for builder blasio, there you go there, you go see. It also announced some new rules for this next debate. There will be no show of hands, or one word down the line- questions there. We and a candidate who consistently interrupts will have his or her time reduced, watch John Delaney, alright, let's the drawing itself, since we had a great time backstage watching the drawing. How do we think CNN handle the process this time improvement over NBC Tommy, we'll start with. You know. I think these. Ultimately, the the results was good, but if you guys didn't watch it, if I didn't say you were getting nagged in line, they drew one group, then they went to break then they drew the second tier and then they went to break, and then they came back and subjected us to fifteen minutes
punditry about what was going to happen. Next, we controlled our ability to know what was going happen. Next, it was like it was peak, cable tv making a themselves and reminding us all the things that are wrong about cable tv now alternately. I think this will be an interesting debate, especially the second night. There was an there was multiple camera angles on the boxes that they do the names out of, including overhead camp down into the box, to which the the the three different people they had drawn from the box. That I can't see into the box right now, but you can from the overhead cam the most surreal aspect of it was like what Tommy mentioned, where they had control about what was going to happen next and they were trying to like analyze their future decision. It's like, if I woke up in the morning
sat and looked at my closet, and I was like what is she going to wear? Well if she picks this and then, instead of just like picking out my outfit yeah, but you were not there, they were treating it like. It was fuckking like they were waiting for the returns from palm Beach, but. But their children, they they had the returns there in charge. They got their their their up with nine pundits. On stage nine I mean there are certain to is like about this. One is like who gives a right like cable now, in this day and age, is micro targeted to a group of mostly older political junkies, like that, that's they want to that's who they're they're not trying to inform the public for saying other than a big news moments they're just doing their call politics for a group of turkeys. So in that you don't care, but on this incident like there is another level right, do you think it does sort of matter which is
we've been on this arc for a while? Now, where it's about the trivialization of politics right, we cover it like sports and now we're doing this for the NBA draft lottery in it. There is a connection, not a doctor, but there is that we think is a relationship between treating politics in this way and having a reality, tv star who has no business doing the job as president dozing not unrelated. Now there was a difference. There was a good intention underlying some of this, which was to be radically transparent about how the various people ended up on stage, but they milks that good intention for an hour of catheter ads or whatever else we can throw on tv. Can you guess this about it too, which is this is this is what cable news will be like for the next for the next year, Half we can't really change it. We can work the Refs and there's some value in doing that, though, I think trying to badger the York and the changing headlines has diminishing value. Part of this is its income, it's incumbent upon our candidates to choose, I play the game and choose where they call out the game. You know Chuck,
I'm gonna repeat this forever, but Chuck Todd telling everybody to raise their hand. I don't think that that was a good way to elucidate the most important issues facing the country. They all went along with it and I I would like to see the candidates do more is pick fights with the wraps like. I think that that was a moment for a candidate to say hold on a second check. This is no way to run. This is no way to run a milk stand or what have you like? The democratic party? I think it's a little bit too comfortable with handing over this control to the networks, but the candidates, don't to go along with it. They can make moments by not just fighting with each other bye bye out the moments where the media is treating it too much like a sport, we're not listed tackles on here yeah. She would have gone to see what how you want a little more any the enemy of the people that I I I I give me three percent. Let's see give me forgive me for no, I don't want enemy of the people, but but hey this is, can dumb
audience applaud is not bad for any of those candidates. I mean, I think, part of the reason why it's dangerous is that I think public interest in elections in in democracy, is so fragile, fleeting, especially given what we have right now, like it's so hard to get people excited it's so hard to get people to participate and have have CNN just milk it into an hour. That is a waste of time for everybody really duro, it's a it's a dereliction of duty, corporate greed and it's and it's it's gross. The media should be doing well, that's the I mean that is the ultimate point, which is our meat is run by corporations, their businesses with payrolls and bottom lines and investors, and they so you we have to disabuse ourselves of the notion that they are it only for the democracy right. They have. They are a business and we have to under stand their motives. That way- and this is good business for CNN Cnn- was in the sugar before the twenty sixteen election. They were struggling mightily and they better
all cables. Data cables was going like this and then Trump, and that doesn't mean that I think therefore trump for Trump. I don't actually think that, but pot that the chuck may politics interesting and that is keeping cable, for. We just have to understand that one important distinction, the be journalists who had to do that drawing today are doing their jobs. I bet they found embarrassing. We respect them, we like them, they got bosses who work for some public trade company they're telling them do this, and it's also worth remember too that the this is there some new ones here in that CNN, in along with doing this NBA draft, which again this is the first maybe I've seen- and I can't believe this is what all the fuss is about. Cnn has done some of the most substantive and serious town halls any and debates I thought when they had TED Cruz debating Bernie Sanders about really important issues like anchors at CNN, have had some of the most compelling confrontations with Trump officials
run these incredibly valuable town halls that allowed people to judge to become a serious candidate. So I do interview what yeah yes was dancing at the interview, obviously obviously Dan Dan Dan, given the Buddha but the I all all the way of saying is that you know CNN contains multitudes. You got it yeah, I think yeah. I think this is, I think, is an important point me to a fair. Is that stuff pays for the town right you can to their credit animacy sees or something is yes, giving a town hall to come with Harrison, getting a lot of viewers, that's good for everyone right, giving a town hall to Steve Bullock or John Hickenlooper. That is That's not good tv, it's not good ratings, but they gave it to everyone. You got to pay for that somehow right. So this is a good time to mention that during the final tier draw when they like to the four top candidates in which nights they'd be in everyone stage was lit. Cheering the cloud really backstage glued to,
it was great just great. So let's talk about. Let's actually talk about the substance of that we every principle we had was out the window. It was the end of animal farm. We were pigs at that fucking table love. It was like loads, like I'm, going to go out on that stage and give CNN a piece of yes, Joe Biden coming Wednesday. So what fans of the top campaigns we have to go through? All of thirty thousand people running for president, the top campaigns who do you think, was happy with the drying and and where they ended up, and who do you think's, I'm happy, then you want, I think Joe Biden is probably not happy. Because if it's a rematch with Khan, the rematch with Canelo, which every media outlet is happy about, but it's also he's also there with Cory Booker, who has been fighting with Biden about I think rightly criticizing by not his comments about segregationists
who, in Castro, who has proven to be very aggressive in the last debate. I think as we come after, but it might be a online stage bite in Warner, the only two who have qualified for the September debate, so all these other people are in a do or die situation. They have to have a moment for their candidacy will be. All over, for all intents and purposes in a month by then have minded here, silly too. Yes, the only two who have done So there were a lot of desperate people. They're taken swings in the person they're going take a swing at is going to bite by then. You question: why is it It seems as though there is there it's for home. There is a cost to go after and is a candid there's Canon's. What seems like there's a lower cost, like seems like in the first debate, there is low cost to attacking better. We have this in that they'll be low cost to going after Biden. Why is it less seen as sort of low risk to attack of? I think if you were trying to get from zero percent to two percent, there is low cost going after biting. If you were trying to generate enough online attention to raise more donors, there's your contract abide by
for all of the shifted. Gets among the online left on some of which is very deserved? He is most popular person on that stage. By far there is mass amount of goodwill among democratic voters. For so, if you're trying to go from fifteen, there may be costly going after biting and there may end up overtime. If Kamel Harrison Buying, go get go after each other repeatedly. There may cost a couple of for doing that overtime. But if you're going from zero to two You have nothing to lose right, that's where the money is and what do you think about Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren being together? Oh man, I feel like a lot of white college. Professor couples will,
a difficult night, I'm I think that I mean I was gonna say on a serious. No, but I am, I am very serious about that. There's going to be an english lit and history are gonna, be the Middlebury campus they're going to separate caftan bad. I that, like. See what are you make the king? What I'm? I think, I think that seeing Warren and Sanders on this stage will be interesting, but I do not think that Sanders is going to go after Warren. He might ask her to clarify some things, but I think that I Warren, and maybe this is just because as a candidate, I really like her. She seems sort of
cares. So much is this. She seems kind of bullet proof to me because, no matter what it is that she says and what she believes, she's she's done the research. She knows what she's talking about, there's no way for her to get tripped up on the plus city. I think Sanders will probably not really know what to do with her, and I don't think that Warren is going to go after Sanders either. So I think it'll be at the end of the night that professor couple will be getting along again. So the interesting thing is- and this was one of the funny parts of the CNN Coverage- is before they pick Sanders and Warren for that night. They have of the candidates and they spend five minutes being like well, first night is the moderate candidate night 'cause they're, all very moderate candidates, and it's going to be this debate about the center of the party and then they were like Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders uh. I guess not all right yet victim all exactly so. I sort of wonder, but I do think that first night could be a more kanji
affair, because you have Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. Who I agree with you: don't really have incentives to go after each other, and then you have people to judge and better O'Rourke, and all these other people who I don't, I don't the the mall trying to mix it up with each other as much because they sort of divided the debate amongst the confrontational people on the non confrontational people right yeah. They all seem to be sort of make a you could see like TIM, Ryan or John Delaney. Thinking now is the time to you. You know attack Medicare for all, is on reasonable or you know trying to really make it a electability argument against Bernie Sanders, for example. But you never know what some of these lower tier candidates are going to do mean Marianne Williamson in learn how to juggle right there on stage and that we can move objects with her mind that be pretty cool so and then like tulsi in night to like. You know that she has made thing opportunity yeah, she kind of took him
down a peg on foreign policy would interesting to see if she after Joe Biden on a rock, because I still think that he would answer him Ryan up, brothers dancer, but you know I think Joe Biden is on the top place. Were you know his answer on wise for the Iraq war is basically that, while once I got to the White House, Barack Obama put me in charge of whiting that were down told to get having served in the military can make compelling case for why lack of judgment maybe means he's didn't electable. So you know you never know. These larger cancer cans are going to point last question after the last debate. Most of the analysis was about how maybe the Democratic Party is moving too far to the left, because a lot of the candidates on stage took positions on health care and immigration that were, for the last
yesterday, Rahm Emanuel, our old boss in the White House, wrote a Washington Post, Op Ed, arguing for more moderation and wrote, quote the only two democratic presidents to win reelection since FDR won the White House by reaching out to the center, then do we think that's true of Obama and do we think it's still true today. It is true about a bomb in the sense that he won independence in two thousand and eight by a lot. He there are a lot of people who voted for about two thousand and twelve over twelve thousand and sixteen swing. Voters supported. That's why he won by very large margins both times, but I think it is important. Remember is Obama persuaded middle voters to support his agenda. He did not allow the winds of middle of the road voters to change his agenda, and that is, I think, the problem that it's where we get wrapped around the axle in this conversation is the math is very clear to win a two hundred and seventy vote electoral college count. You have to do
if you have to excite the base and you're going to have to persuade some people who either supported in two thousand and sixteen or supported independent candidate that you're, so you got to do. You're gonna have to persuade people, but you don't to change what you stand for you, and if you have a compelling message about why your agent is good for people you can persuade, it doesn't mean it like persuading people. The middle does not mean moving to mushy middle centrism yeah. It's worth remembering something that we pointed out before that the the debate about what it means to moderate. That Rama articulating feels very old to me, especially when there's so much polling. That shows that the so called look the positions that that are find against moderation, whether it's a wealth tax or higher marginal tax rate or a green new deal. You go through these actual issues with voters and they're, quite popular, not just amongst Democrats, but among independents, and even some Republicans. So you know country is telling us,
but the center is. That DC has a weird, an incorrect notion of what the center is. This. The center of the country is further to the left than a lot of pundits would like to admit. That's all yeah it's just the pundits and the press can only interpret politics through the frame of ideology, which is how it's disgusted watching trip. They liberal think conservative think tanks, people who named themselves moderates. That's just not how voters think about it. If they, the was you case. You wouldn't have had people who elected Barack Obama and Donald Trump in for about four years apart or like we just look at the twenty eighteen elections, right, you know shared Brown wins in Ohio, Tammy Baldwin wins in Wisconsin to save the Trump one they're, both very progressive senators, and then cures in Cinema wins in Arizona and flips that for the first time and she's a very moderate candidate right like there's, you can't actually
connect ideology of candidates to the states and the and the way they want necessarily right. I've found that a lot of times when people write columns that are like why don't Democrats reach out to the center? It is kind of coded for why don't Democrats reach out to my personal views, and that is I mean that that's that's that's kind of been a pattern and at the at and on the other hand, you know, Republicans are rarely asked to reach to the center. You know. Donald I mean there was. There was kind of a satirical column the Times today that was like Donald. I wanted to reach out toward the center. The reality is the for the for the right is so far to the right, like I can't reach it. If I lean all the way, this way, yeah like that, the left has the center just by outside, by embodying goals that normal people have it's a that. Where the does it- and I think it's hilarious- that we're in a place where a column
how Donald Trump should reach out to the center to win. Reelection is seen as satirical. Only David Brooks is like. Why don't you call me at home, hello, my fax okay time to play a you guys want to play a game Utah. My name is John. We com from LOS Angeles, we know our customs. Must seem strange to you with jeans that cling to our legs and shorts that end before the knee we come in peace and we have brought gifts from east and West, a new Yorker Tote bag, a rentable e scooter. And I eat bowls from a restaurant one, slash four owned by Jessica Biel.
We have traveled great distances on Delta, where we have status to this foreign land of Republicans and Mormons friggin gnarly powder. We bring a message of unity and hope. Yes, we love films that end with Emma Stone wondering if her devotion to live. Your Coleman is worth the cost set against 17th century Britain and you love films that end with Chris Hemsworth covered in dirt and baby oil pummeling. An alien robot army set against Chris Evans also doing that. We're so divided. Do American Red America, Oscar and Felix Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan, George and Kellyanne. What are we different as it seems? Yes,
states, may reject democratic politicians faster than you can reject a call from a friend who texted you about helping you move three days ago and you were avoiding it trying to think of how to get out of it and boom your phone rings. And it's like a Democrat, reject but there is this strange phenomenon. In recent years, the reddest of red states embracing the bluest of blue policies, hating the sinner but loving the sin to explore this trend. It's time to play, Democrats can't win with them; actually, maybe can win without him. Weird. Why seems like? We should figure this out with someone out there like to play the game you're very you're, standing up, but there's no merch on your shirt,
your bag, and you put it on. She wins both the president with the breadth of the hi. What's your name Christina and where you from Christina SALT Lake City Utah hi, are you ready to play yes question? One. Two thousand eighteen voters here in Utah passed a ballot measure that would expand Medicaid to one hundred and fifty thousand people in the state. How did the republican legislature react today My slow rolling the expansion one legislator said: hey, Rome wasn't built in a day. And it didn't fall in a day gradually unravel as a result of inequality, neglected, vital infrastructure, imperial overreach, corruption and decadence point? Is we're fine or is it be
with grace and humility accepting the will of the voters? This is the right answer, no need for other clues, or is it see ballot measure passed in November? The legislature meets in January. If you think I'm going to stay inside some capital that that mountain is calling my name bro nah, I didn't buy. My ex sister in Hi Billy drive all the way to Utah to expand Medicaid. I came here to let that gnarly fuckin' pow pow or is it the Republicans in the legislature immediately broke faith with the states. Voters, water down the ballot measure implemented a much weaker expansion in its place D. Do you rate, which one do you think you can dance d yeah. I your heart, your heart question two in two eighteen Senator Claire Mccaskill, also the and hotly contested Senate race, but on that same night, Missouri also passed which three ballot measures is. Today
it passed a resolution declaring both Kansas City style in Saint Louis City style, barbecue, to be at the official barbecues of the state. They established regulations to ensure only high quality corn. Cob pipes could bear the name Missouri. They pass a law requiring elected officials to pronounce it in Missouri a big day for fans of Classic Missouri stereotypes, or is it be legalizing medical marijuana, establishing independent commissions to draw congressional districts and raising the minimum wage, or is it see okay, it was tense? The first ballot measure said that Sandra had to admit that the divorce was mutual, the second measure, so that it would be legal for standard to say their mutual friend to the club, that dear old Bluebird for solid two hours in Finally, if Sanders going to gallivant around town with Ricardo, she can at least not go to Jerry's fish fry at a restaurant Darryl introduced her to it was his place. First, so is or is it d?
mandatory biannual fire sings, our checks in schools, restructuring of retirement benefits for full time. Government plays and revise summer hours for public parks. Yeah, that's right I so good government is boring when you think b you gotta be. You you're doing so so. Well, next, question candidates, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are calling for new rules to rain in Wall Street, despite these candidates being called extreme by republican politicians, many pundits, what percent likely voters support stronger rules. Enforcement on the financial industry is today almost thirty percent, which also the percentage of a billion tip. If you weren't sure, if there was actually something between you and your waiter, a connection and your Free to write your number, because that's what a douche would do, but you want to make clear. Something if it was real and it may not have been.
Or is it be almost fifty percent, which is roughly the percent of the voting age population currently running for president in the democratic primary or? Is it see almost seventy percent, which is also what many economists believe to be the optimal tax rate for the Wellfleet, not a joke. I guess, but still you fat cats, our or is a d, almost fifty percent, which is also the percent chance you're going to hear them, play a Bruno Mars song when you're at Tj Maxx. What do you think. I'll say see, but I love Bruno Mars and Tj Maxx yes, and we all love Tj Maxx, which was the right answer. You got it wrong. You know what don't follow people sometimes you know it here, Christina Trust. This question, four, all
all of the following policy positions are considered too extreme for most Republicans, which of those positions did that over fifty percent approval amongst voters. Today, all gun buyers must pass a background check, as opposed to our current system, where gun buyers are exempt. If they know a guy. Or is it be wealthy? People should pay more in taxes, which is weird, because I'd have thought that more than half of the population would be wealthy. By now, don't think telling us the economy is good. Or is it see, Citizens United was a bad court decision for the country, but to be fair, some people were excluded from the opinion polls, namely corporations, or is it economic inequality is a big from America even billionaires, agree. A conclusion they reached over dinner at that resort, where you hunt teachers shirts cancel their student debt if they survive the weekend. I don't think it should be allowed, but it was
but it was in the republican tax bill. So a it's all. The all right, so you do not have it, and I did give you the choice of a sort of it's all of the above. Well, okay, you got it receive, won the game in a note to give card thank, beaver playing Democrats can't win with them. Actually, maybe can win without I'm weird. Why seems like we should figure this out when we come back. Our interview with Stacy Stanford. Pause America is brought to you by policy genius. Time is a habit of getting away, but if you have a mortgage, kids or anyone depending on your income, you're going to spend some of that precious time getting life insurance.
If you need life insurance, but you don't spend a lot of time, comparing it check out policy genius. This is the easy way to shop for insurance online. In minutes you can compare quotes from insurers to find your best price. Once you, the policy genius team will handle all the paperwork and red tape, no sales pressure, no hidden fees, just financial protection and sweet, sweet peace of mind, get peace of mind. And policy genius doesn't just make life insurance easy. They can also, you find the right home insurance, auto insurance and disability insurance. So if you need life insurance, but you're short on time, had the policygenius dot com and compare quotes policy genius, less time, compare life, insurance and, more time doing literally anything she's, an activist who's working to expand Medicaid in Utah, currently she's a health policy analyst for the Utah Health policy project, which advocates only half
of the uninsured and underserved. Please welcome Stacy Sanford. Thank you. So much for being for having me. I want to start with your personal story, because it's what got you deeply involved in the issue of healthcare in two thousand ten. You were in a car accident and you can go to work anymore. You lost your insurance. What happened. Yeah, I mean right when I needed health care. The most is when I didn't have access to it. I have a barrage of new scary symptoms that were disorienting and painful, and I lost my job. I lost my health insurance And realize very quickly, I was not the only one in that situation, and so you up, you thought you'd be eligible for Medicaid yeah.
You know I knew the down the road. I was looking forward to the ACA two thousand and fourteen that expansion would be implemented and I would finally have access, and then the Supreme Court in two thousand and twelve said that it was optional and it became a real Partizan dividing line. An Utah opted year after year after year against it and how many people in Utah were in your situation, who fell on that Medicaid insurance gap. It depends on the numbers that you look at, but between one hundred and fifty thousand is the number that we campaigned on and so there's a lot of people in that situation it mean to give people some context here. The federal government was giving this party for a character. Free money, t stay Utah to cover health insurance for the uninsured in the state and like many states with public Everest, refused that free money, which is
First in the history of politics, what reasons did they politicians in Utah give for doing that? There was a lot of excuses, that the funding would go away down the road that the administration of a future administration would just decide that they would no longer fund and Utah would be left holding the bag and worried about a lot of runaway cost about people signing up that that wouldn't need it or too many but it ideological. I mean it comes down to an ideological divide, not a financial divide. So, let's flash order, two thousand and eighteen by this time, you're working for the Utah Health policy project to pass the medicated and through ballot initiative, tell us about what prop three does and who it
Yeso proposition three was a simple, clean Medicaid expansion, as called for under the affordable care act. So it covers up to. They do use the federal poverty line as a marker. So it's a hundred and thirty eight percent of the poverty line, but in reality that's an individual earning only up to one thousand four hundred dollars a month. It's not much, and so we would expand coverage to people in that low income bracket and then also provided a funding mechanism which is so key that Utahns are so compassionate. They wanted to provide health care for their neighbors, but they also voted to pay for that health care and so you thought, wasn't really a ballot initiative stay right. I think the last time you passed, one was two thousand and seven and it's a red state, as we discussed here so the huge up battle.
As you were campaigning for this, how do you go back convincing the Republicans Utah to support your initiative? I think that it comes down to a real, simple moral argument where it was an extra penny on a movie ticket is how much we were increasing the non food sales tax, just a minuscule increase out of the pocket book of most you tons to provide health care to people who desperately need it. So elevating those personal stories, people like myself that were disabled in every day life using a wheelchair bedridden, but the government didn't consider me disabled enough to earn and deserve that health care. Everybody in that income bracket has a health care need and a health care story, and we tapped into that. How? How did you
become involved with you to help us route? You have an activist on this issue. I was really excited about the ACA. I read the whole nine hundred pays a ball of wax and I wish you had a lot of members of Congress yeah, most of them most of them and it started selfishly. You know it started that I needed health care and I couldn't get it and it did not take long to realize that there were so many other people with chronic illness and disability and kids and horrible situations that couldn't get the hair health care that they needed, and so I started hearing those stories I started going to rallies. I started organizing rallies and meeting people and
we climbed my way up at the Utah Health policy project. I started as a volunteer and then an intern and part time, and now they can't get rid of me. So I think we're good thing. Yes, so thanks to your work in many activists like yourself and groups like the Utah, the project, your proposition, but now we had there's a plot twist and so yeah? We got to applaud for about that long yeah. We got five seconds to celebrate, so talk to me about why your state legislature in government is doing yeah. So proper three was a bridge across the coverage gap. That's what we call the people that don't have access without Medicaid expansion is the coverage gap so proposition three was a nice beautiful, shiny bridge across the gap, the legislature
tore that down and built a shity rickety bridge that has a bunch of broken missing playing there, leaving people out like how structured it like how. How did they specifically? We can your proposed yeah, so they cut it down the eligibility level. So, instead of being able to earn one thousand four hundred dollars a month, the cutoff is one thousand dollars a month which leaves out about half the people who would have been eligible. So we can go on the affordable care act, but there's a limited enrollment period, they're locked out and then once they get on, they still have to pay for copays and things like that. They also added a couple, different capsule, a cap on on enrollment, a limit on the number of people who can sign up that they can decide to implement whenever they decide it's no longer practicable to provide the care they put added
out on the money we receive from the federal government again. Turning down free money doesn't limit the state's responsibility. So, in exchange, they're allowed to cut program to cut services in bunch of dangerous things called a per for the cap for you, following along at home, that might sound familiar because they tried that in twenty seventeen as part of the ACA repeal they failed through com and now Utah's trying to lead the charge to do this on a state by state basis and then the routing red tape barriers like a work reporting requirement, which, among other things, require somebody to fill out. Forty eight job applications to get in if their Medicaid. So we we have seen republican state governments had take a similar response to progressive ballot initiatives that passed. You had the governor of Maine refusing to implement a similar Medicaid.
Can you have state legislature in Florida, rolling back the a proposition that expanded voting rights to ex felons? How the state? What kind of like? What is the reaction? Among people of Utah who voted for this initiative to see this very explicit in center undermining of democracy, it's been really hard, I mean people came out and they voted and they campaigns and they sold their republican, neighbors and mom's on this and it's really hard, but because of the wonky process, wherein we actually the ball back in our court now and going through this waiver process, and so they stole ball in January, and now we have it back and everybody can submit
public comment to speak out against these changes and we've seen changes overturned in court in Arkansas and Kentucky through challenge so y'all are times in the crowd you at home. It doesn't matter where you are. You can go to health policy, project, dot, org and check the the box. That goes federal government and you can use that in court to get back to where we need to be with a full Medicaid expansion and for a listener's athomehere, not Utah. This is how do you say that you tons Utah? I saw that word and I've thought that would be hard to pronounce. So thank you for that, but so far listeners at home are there ways in which they can help. You know, either by volunteering or financially supporting your organization. In your effort
I mean yeah health policy project, Org, there's a donation thing there, but honestly you don't have to be in Utah to comment it's a federal issue. Utah is the first knocking on the door. This is coming to a state near you. If you talk its approval. This is not. This is just starting these harmful changes nationwide. It doesn't end here so last question for you, your story for what you've done here in your path to an active. This is so inspiring. What advice would you give to people out there who want to become involved in their communities? As active to try to effect change, you God the demand, the seat at the table. I mean they, don't they didn't want to listen to. I called myself the sad sit girl for so long because it felt like it was such a pity. Thing: okay, well, listen to Stacy, she's, sad and pathetic, but but
now look at me. You know I'm in a position of power. Now I have the my in. If we're going to create any kind of effective health policy it has to begin end ends in center, around sick people in disabled people and people who have health care needs and any another issue. Immigration has to center on immigrants and racial issues need to focus on people of color and need to make sure that you get yourself a seat at the table so that your voice can be heard on these important issues.
Well, that was perfectly said. Fifty thank you. So much, please give it up for safety. Thank you! So much so, let's see you guys were fantastic. Thank you, Stacy Stanford for joining us, we'll come back to you as soon we love you guys. Thank you.
Transcript generated on 2019-10-23.