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or visit ConsumerCellular.com. Savings based on cost of Consumer Cellular's single line one, five, and 10 gig data plans with unlimited talk and text compared to lowest cost single line postpaid unlimited talk, text, and data plans offered by T-Mobile and Verizon January, 2024. - Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Tommy Vitor. - I'm Ali Velshi. - On today's show, Vice President Kamala Harris hits the campaign trail. J.D. Vance might not be so ready for primetime. Then we're joined by Transportation Secretary and reported VP contender Pete Buttigieg to talk about the campaign, J.D. Vance, and how Harris should respond to Republican attacks

We all know we're coming. And then Benjamin Netanyahu gives a speech to Congress that has my blood absolutely boiling. But first I should just say thank you Ali Velshi. You're a truly excellent journalist. Everyone should catch everything you're doing on MSNBC. And also you filled in for me on. Save the World when I was on paternity leave and you kind of did a better job than I do. So I'm wondering, you know, in hindsight, was that a polite thing to do to a sleep deprived father? Congratulations, and it was a pleasure. I don't get nervous much for appearances of being on air being on podcast given how much I do I've been nervous two times and they'll probably last 15 years First one was going on Oprah. Well, and one was filling in for you Because everybody everybody everybody listens to this and everybody was like, you know, I get all my information I get my all my analysis from from pod save so I was actually a tad nervous But I'm glad you thought it worked. Well, I'm glad to be

With you. It was truly great and Oprah what a flex. Damn right for you. You know that I the my only like crazy Oprah story is in That's it. I'm at Brock Obama and Michelle Obama did their first interview with Oprah Winfrey and Gale. And my boss at the time I guess like didn't want to staff something on a Saturday morning at like 10 AM. So it was the Obama's me, Oprah, Gail, and just kind of like sitting in a room. I'm like, how did I get here? That's something, yeah. A beautiful friendship. I know the feeling. I felt the same way when I was in the same room as Gale and Oprah. Yeah, they're quite talented. Okay. Let's talk about where we are in the campaign compared to where we were a week ago. Kamala Harris appears to have clinched a majority of delegates and is all but officially a

Leading the ticket. The vibes are immaculate. Voter registrations are surging. Politico reported this morning that vote.org saw its biggest day of the cycle so far with 38,500 new registrations, under 34 years old. Everywhere you look online, people are sharing and remixing Kamala content and memes. And while money isn't everything, it's something. It's a lot. And the Harris campaign and allied groups have raised more than $250 million since Sunday. And most importantly, out on the campaign trail, Kamala Harris is kicking ass as a messenger. Here she is yesterday at a rally in Milwaukee. Before I was elected to the United States. I was elected Attorney General of the state of California, and I was a courtroom prosecutor before then In those roles, I took on perpetrators of all kinds. Predators who...

Abused women, fraudsters who ripped off consumers, cheaters who broke the rules for their own gain. So hear me when I say... I know Donald Trump's type. This campaign is also about two different visions. One where we are focused on the future. The other focused on the past. We believe in a future where every person has the opportunity not just to get by but to get out. Building up the middle class will be a defining goal of my presidency. So like a little So, Ali, we knew that if President Biden stepped down, the first few days of this rollout would be critical for resetting the narrative. How do you think it's going so far?

I am blown away by how it's going, I have to tell you, because I, as a journalist, don't often think these things will go as well as the faithful do. I thought it'd be a little rockier than this. I thought there would be a little bit more opposition. I think it's kind of amazing how she sort of stepped into this unity issue. The idea that I think Democrats were so hobbled by the fact. That the Biden question had become disuniting. Wherever you were on the spectrum of whether Biden should stay or Biden should go, it felt hopeless for Democrats. And she has walked into this thing, and she has said, All right, we're putting that conversation aside. We're done with that conversation. Now we're deciding what the message is to the American voter who was either unenthusiastic, was, was... Feeling overwhelmed. I'm I'm amazed as you know very well.

>> And I think the reason that the presidential candidate is a very important person is because she's been in the Senate for nearly 30 days on one hand on the other hand. We're talking about almost a 100 days to the election it's really about 65 days before the first ballots are cast. Right don't know. Kamala Harris as well as they think they do in other words, we shouldn't get that far in her attempt to to be the presidential candidate. The last time around. So it is her. Reintroduction to America. And she's got an opportunity here that I wouldn't have even guessed on Sunday that she had. Yeah, I mean, look, the cliche that you never have a second chance to make a first impression is a real thing. And it's a hell of a first impression. I'm hearing from people. My life who are not political at all about all the Kamala memes and stuff. They're seeing on tik-tok and they're not only Interested but inspired by it. So I think give the enthusiasm is real if we're being honest part of It is a sense of relief that Joe Biden is no longer the candidate. I'm not trying to be mean to him, but there is, you know, this kind of exhale.

That we're no longer having a conversation about his age anymore, but in addition to that, there is genuine excitement for Kamala Harris and it's man of investing online in ways that I haven't seen since 2008. And also on the ground, I mean, I talked to my buddy Ben Wickler who runs the Wisconsin Democratic Party. He says that, you know, younger staffers at wisdom is are telling him that they're hearing from friends who have never voted before, but now they're going to because they feel like this moment is historic. That was the word he used. The Milwaukee event that Harris did fit 3,500 people on very short notice and could have been bigger. They had, you know, lines on the block. The state party raised $350,000 since Sunday. And the Harris campaign says that they've had 100,000 volunteers sign ups since Sunday. So that's that's real enthusiasm. And you know, Ben, it might have been a few days after the Ben Wickler.

Said that they were out knocking on doors and everybody thought the debate performance was bad. Virtually none of those Democrats who thought so said, And so I'm going to vote for Donald Trump. What this has done is caused that discussion to go by the wayside because... For people in Wisconsin and Michigan, this is going to be very, very important because there were Democrats who went out and said, I'm dissatisfied with Joe Biden. Some of them were further dissatisfied by the debate performance. Now they've got a reason to come back. And and it didn't need to be a massive reason, but it's a reason and I think Harris has a remarkable opportunity here, not just for the first impression, but to shape what the discourse is going to be for the next 65 days and then a hundred and, you know, five days or whatever it is until the election.

So given what you're watching and reading and the strategies you talked to, do you feel like the underlying dynamics of the race are different or the same? Do you think we're going to be talking about different states being in play? Possibly, but we were going to talk about different states being in play anyway because there are democratic states which didn't go democratic in prior elections that were going to be at risk with the dynamic that we have. So the number of states that into the swing-ish category was greater than most people think. Yes. Upward of 10 states could be 13 states. So number one, if you can just shrink the swingy states back down to six or seven, you're at least in the game. Number two, I thought that clip you played... Kamala Harris was was kind of amazing. It was Ronald Reagan-esque, right? She has decided, going to be a bit of a heavy lift for Democrats, particularly for, or even for people like me who say that this is an existential election about democracy.

For the moment she's embracing a slightly different message that there's a bright future for America. Lean onto the Biden economic track record, but generally talk about the future. And that contrasts with Donald Trump's, generally speaking, bleak, restrictive, isolationist future. That might be a more creative thing. People like me are still gonna go on and warn people that if you don't vote in this election, your democracy could be at risk. Go out with a different message and it might be refreshing and it might be enticing to voters who are going to sit on their hands. I have to say, I think you hit On honestly the most important thing, which is my frustration with the Biden campaign's message was that it was very much about, These are my accomplishments. Allow me to list them to you. And there was not enough forward-looking. Here's what I'll do in the future vision. Now that's a hard contrast to paint when you're an 81 year old. I think with Kamala Harris, she looks different, she sounds different, she's far younger than Donald Trump. And so it just--

Message fits, but yeah, that was another moment where I was like, oh, this is just wonderful to hear. It is also, look, we've heard it, you heard it from, from your listeners. I've heard it from my viewers. People are exhausted. They are diminished. They feel overwhelmed. And the idea that you can be useful, that you can be part of a movement that you be part of something that feels like the future, not a negative future where we close off our borders and we call immigrants vermin and we obsess about transgender kids and we worry about... How many ways we can restrict abortion, an actual future that talks about economic growth, the growth of our country, leadership of the world, the saving of democracy, the reinstituting of human rights norms around the world and being a leader at that. That's exciting. That makes me... I feel like I want to get out and do something as opposed to just the endless onslaught of my of my freedoms Yeah, it's not a lesser of two evils conversation at all

Yeah, I think I agree with you fundamentally. I think like the campaign, General Mallie Dillon had a memo out today. The blue wall states are still key, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, but they're gonna be back to trying to expand the race into North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, Nevada, states that frankly were just gone, according to the polling I saw. And I also think, you know, Harris. In some of the polling about her versus Biden shows she gives us the chance to win back younger voters black and Latino Voters she also clearly excites the base and I think she is proven to be the most effective messenger we have on on... Abortion rights and abortion access. And she can drive that hard. Is the biggest thing that Democrats have at the moment, even if the Democrats could overcome the weird thing about inflation and the...

Economy, whereas the, you know, the economy is doing one thing and people seem to express that it's doing another, they feel another. That's a real piece of work for the campaign. And I hope that that works better for Kamala Harris than it has for Joe Biden. But this abortion... Still drives more voters out there and it will drive more voters to the polls in the end. So Democrats, I mean look, you know that there are people who... Argue that Democrats should be leaning into that and guns. Kamala Harris is actually. Leader on both of those areas. For the things that could cause people who weren't going to vote to go out and vote, those are two of the... The major issues. Obviously, Israel and Gaza is another one and we're yet to see how that unfolds, but I'm actually more hopeful that she's able to motivate some of the voters who weren't going to show up for Joe Biden on that issue. Yeah, I want to ask you about what space she may or may not have. On Gaza in a second. But the other interesting dynamic I'm noticing is Kamala Harris's experience as a prosecutor and as this attorney general of California was sort of

of seen as a liability for her in the 2020 primary because the country was in the midst of this discussion about police brutality after the murder of George Floyd. Now her law enforcement experience is a feature front and center of Harris's stump speech. Do you You know, the 2020 like Kamala is a cop narrative that you saw online is now mostly a political asset? I do actually. Look, there's a narrow space, and it is about police brutality and police violence, and that has not been solved, in which being a prosecutor who's tough on crime works against you. Similar thing occurred with Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania, also a prosecutor, also known to be tough on crime. Generally speaking, if you separate police brutality and unfairness in the world, Justice system with what you could describe as law and order, meaning an orderly society, you can you can win on that front. And I think Kamala Harris has that chance now to set herself out and as she did in that clip that you...

Played to say, I know what people like this are. Donald Trump's a law breaker. Donald Trump's a cheat. Donald Trump is a fraudster. Donald Trump is dishonest. To be able to go down that road, which people were really hoping Biden 2024 could do like Biden 2020 could do, 2019 could do. Biden wasn't able to do that this time around as effectively because he was playing defense the whole time. Kamala Harris now gets to play offense, and on that front, a prosecutor, the worst kind of person for Donald Trump, Trump, not just a prosecutor, a woman who's a prosecutor, a non-white woman who's a prosecutor, that's going to get under his skin.

When you get under his skin or J.D. Vance's skin, as you know, because they're both awful thin-skinned, they react in ways that look pretty ugly. Yeah, they sure do. I saw the Trump campaign try to say that they're gonna target ads towards younger voters of color. That highlights Kamala's record as a prosecutor, and I guess in an effort to depress the vote. That seems way too cynical for me, and I think it's also a misread of the actual data on what voters think. For example, the Griot did a poll in 2022 where they asked black voters about whether spending on policing should increase, stay the same, or decrease. About half of those voters said spending on policing should be kept the same. 34% said it should be increased and only 17% said it should be decreased. But an overwhelming majority of black voters think that policing needs major reforms. And that is basically Kamala Harris's message. She wants a bunch of reforms. She wants to end mass incarceration, but also increase funding for

Community-based policing and training. So she's kind of in the sweet spot for a general election audience. Yeah. And the idea of funding police and reform. Police. They're not opposites, right? I think most people will agree one of the reasons. Why policing isn't where we'd like it to be is because we don't allocate the resources to training and the complexities. That exist around policing that we should, right? To defund the police was just some bad branding. That was a naive. >> I think it was a really silly bumper sticker it was an attempt from people have a bumper sticker who unfortunately the real sentence would have been too hard to to encapsulate that is we need to resource the police properly for the actual challenge of the murder. They face, de-emphasize their violent interactions with the people, and many police forces have done this. Philadelphia, if they have a Sees you and you don't have your license stickers not valid, they will not pull you over anymore. You'll get something in the mail.

They've just realized they don't want their first interactions with people to be what they are. There's a lot of space. And now that we're a little farther away from from George Floyd and that rash of police deaths at the hands of police, although there was one in Chicago. Just a few days ago, we may be able to have that discussion in a more nuanced fashion. For a world without police and without policing. We just want a world in which we have better policing and that might actually be involved greater funding of police. Yeah, absolutely. We're also now seeing kind of another debate about debating. Trump. Has said he is up for debating Kamala Harris, even though he initially seemed like he might be walking away from the second scheduled debate. He claims he might even do more than one debate. First of all, do you believe him? And given the disaster we all--

lived through last month. Do you think it makes sense for Kamala Harris to squeeze in a debate and all the prep that goes into that in the very limited time we have left? - I will say, you know much. About this stuff than I do, but I would argue no. I think debating Donald Trump is a mug's game. I'm not sure it's worth it because he's such a, he's so performative and he's such a provocateur. And look, Kamala Harris, we haven't seen her debate for a while. She was not top of her class in that. She landed one punch on Joe Biden last time and it was a good one, but that was it. I'm not sure she should subject herself to it. On the other hand, who's gonna be more provocative than Kamala Harris to Donald Trump? If she's got the attack lines, you could cause him to go on the defensive. I'm not sure it's worth it. I think Kamala Harris, here's another point. I'm not sure Kamala Harris fundraising is worth it. They're not having a fundraising problem.

Needs to get out there, do those high energy rallies, motivate the base. She has an interesting thing in that she too has been prone to not gaffes but sort of saying things that are a little bit unusual and she's a bit quirky. And the k-hive, the internet has decided to... They're going to take that and lean into it. She's not even getting in trouble for the quirkiness. They're embracing it. Let's get out there and own that stuff. These young, energetic people, the digital masses that are behind her, I think that's where she should live. I just don't know that these debates are worth it. That last debate, Donald Trump lied, I don't know, 30, 50 times. Nobody talked about it, 'cause he was just all focused on what Joe Biden was doing. So I'm not sure debate -- Get you that far right now. I think she's got an opportunity, but you know, smarter minds than I am are involved in that. I mean, every comment Trump makes about a woman he doesn't like is he calls her crazy, crazy Nancy Pelosi called Kamala Harris crazy. He tried to, you know, go after her laugh or call it a cackle.

And the internet was like, no, she's happy. She's smiling like, well, what's wrong with a little joy in our lives here. Just reminded that Fox News has proposed a Trump-Harris debate on September 17th, so that could be a deadline. I think I would argue if she's losing She should debate but there will be a cost to that like you have to come off the trail for you know Extended period of time you got to do a bunch of prep any prep she did on JD Vance Is now worthless. Hopefully she didn't do much. But as an underdog, you got to shake it up a bit. I mean, the polling in a week could tell a different story. - Yeah, and one of the things we've seen in... Polling. There only been a few and they're very hard to, you know, they're not enough to do anything with. But a couple of things. One is the spread between her and Donald Trump is similar to what it was statistically with Biden, but everybody's a little more enthused. So her voter is a little more enthused. And

Are going to be a little more enthused. So that might might increase turnout, which is a good thing for elections. But I think that the trick for her is not just swing voters in swing states. It's disaffected Democrats. She's not she doesn't live on the center left and she was. Historically seen as that person. She's largely been a moderate. The people we're talking about as potential VP picks right now are largely seen as moderates who will appeal to older white men. So we have to... Think about that. What does that mean in terms of energizing bases? What's the base? What's the coalition right now? Is -- are we going after undecided voters? Are we going after people who are disaffected by Trump? Or are we going after -- Democrats who were not going to vote for Biden. Remember, in the last election, 81 million votes for Biden, about 81 million registered voters didn't vote. More people, almost as many people as voted for either of the presidential candidates didn't vote. That to me is an extremely opportunity for Kamala Harris.

Absolutely. Last thing on Kamel Harris before we move on to J.D. Vance. It's been fun watching right wing voices try to cope with the last few days. Let's hear a clip from the Daily Shapiro trying to explain away the enthusiasm for Kamala Harris. Sort of intersectional magic of Kamala Harris and the fact that Democrats have to manufacture enthusiasm for -- I've never seen this much manufactured enthusiasm. As for anyone outside of maybe Taylor Swift's last album. It's amazing. - Ali, do you think it's a good idea to compare-- Harris to a woman who just grossed a billion dollars on a concert. I was gonna say where's the where's the insult there caught in compare me to >> I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing.

Who should be compared than Kamala Harris has got some sunny days ahead of her. I don't know what he means by manufactured stuff. Like, I don't really know what that means. I saw Joe Biden step out on Sunday, and I wondered what that's gonna mean for the party and whether that's gonna be a brokered convention and disarray and a whole bunch of people fighting for the job. And within days, this thing just changed. That's not manufactured. That's the opposite of manufactured, actually. Organic about what has happened here which surprises me as somebody like you who watches us all the time I did not expect to be having this conversation with you today about where we are You want to call that manufactured do so at your own peril? I will tell you about manufactured Ben Shapiro used to be a an interesting textured character then he went to Home Depot one time and bought a Piece of wood and I don't know what happened after that, but he lost That was the manufactured attempt to talk about something. I don't know supply chains or wood or I don't know what it was But that's manufactured. I think what he does

Recognize anymore is what non-manufactured looks like, what organic actually looks like. And I will, I am not the person who thinks that Kamala Harris was always going to be the best candidate for this. I will tell you something, there's some kind of groundswell happening that I did not anticipate. I don't know what it's about. I don't know how it came to be, but it's really there. Don't know if that how would you would have manufactured that yeah, I think Ben is very good at manufacturing outrage, but not enthusiasm I believe he also said that the Barbie movie was gonna tank at the box office so another good call also Just real quick the idea that Kamala Harris isn't qualified is just it's laughable. She was a prosecutor She was Attorney General of the biggest state in the country She was a United States senator and then vice president for four years. I like I you don't get

There too, which is saying something. I mean, there was a time when presidential candidate was a real thing. It wasn't sort of a gumball machine thing like it became in the Republican primary. So yeah, no, she's a real person. You can, if you're at that level of arguing who's qualified for stuff, that might be interesting if the Republicans were running someone who was actually good at being president the last time around, but he, you know, people have to remember, he lost his attempt to win reelection in 2020. - Yeah, so let's talk about someone who is manifestly unqualified, So, coming off JD's convention speech, which frankly was pretty flat, Vance is now out there full time as Trump's main surrogate. The rev— Fews are not great. There seem to be- there's this like weird thing he does all the time where he pauses his speech to laugh at something inaudible shouted by- someone in the audience and it's just really not working, let's hear a clip of that.

The weirdest thing to me, Democrats say that it is racist to believe, well they say it's racist to do anything. I had a Diet Mountain Dew yesterday. I'm sure they're gonna call that racist too, but... It's good. I love you guys. - Ali, am I being unfair here? Am I being like a liberal Ben Shapiro right now and just-- Hoping in my own way by selectively editing this guy to tell a story about him that I want to hear or what do you think of these early stumbles and advances? You know, is your assessment of him as a political animal? This is the problem with people who people don't really know all that well, right? They think they know them because they've heard their name, they want an election, but a lot of people have not had a chance to actually listen to JD Vance. He's delivering on exactly what JD Vance actually is. He's a very smart guy. There's no question. He's empirically smart.

He's got a life experience, a life story that is remarkably compelling. Is We is he's not actually that good in if if if kamala harris takes an opportunity to pick a a vice presidential candidate most of them that we seem to be thinking about right now are the kind who I would tune into that debate. That's a debate I think is worth having. J.D. Vance, the vice presidential debate, based on the people that Kamala Harris is vetting as a candidate. But that's who he is. He's not, he's not. Nearly as substantial as you'd think his life experience and his book and the movie made about his book should be.

Arguments are a little weak. The Diet Mountain Dew stuff, the everything's racist. He also made a comment the other day, which is very telling, and it's about the point of the whole exercise, Why you want J.D. Vance. He implied, it's great coded language, Kamala Harris is not grateful to America. Feels familiar as an Obama staffer. Right? Right? I mean, what have we learned? That being critical of your country is a sign of love. Being critical of your country is a sign of patriotism. And Kamala Harris should take this opportunity to embrace that. Like to bring Democrats, you know, like Democrats, you just, everybody should have a flag in front of their house and flag pins and flag hats and all this kind of stuff. This is not... Nonsensical, not grateful to my country. I don't think you should use that about Democrats, I don't think you should use it about Republicans. But this is where a guy like J.D. Vance will go with this stuff. You owe it to us to be grateful. You're ungrateful. If you don't like the fact that there are too many white men controlling the place, you're basically ungrateful.

To be. EI, vice president of digital selection, which again is racist and sexist and a fan. - But McCarthy told them not to do it. Like when Kevin McCarthy is telling you guys, this is a bad move. For all the reasons you cited, for the things she's actually been elected by voters in the largest state in the country to do numerous times, statewide, the position. She's actually held as a United States senator, as the vice president of the United States. A DEI hire, then I don't understand what DEI is. And also, listen, every vice presidential nominee has basically two boxes you check. One, are you qualified to do the job as president? Yes. Okay, what political benefit do you provide to the ticket? So if you want to say that Mike Pence is a DEI hire for evangelicals, go ahead, say it. But it's just, it's an insufferable sexist racist way to describe what DEI is.

And make her seem different than every other VP ever. I think that here's the thing and again, this is more your your territory than mine. I think ultimately, that helps because it does fire her up. It does get her to talk about who she actually is, which Americans need to know. People are not intimately connected to people who didn't win the nomination last time around, right? And frankly in this country becoming Vice President doesn't actually make people know you any better until the time that you run for president. So this is her moment and the thing that you know that a lot of Americans don't know is this is what campaigns are for. This is actually what you do in a campaign. This is your opportunity to let people find out who you are. And she's got a lot of questions that she now knows needs to be answered, and she can answer those.

Yeah, that's right. And so does JD. And I think one thing that liberals don't love to admit is that Trump can be very funny. He can be very charming. His rallies are fun for the people who go to them, their body. He tells stories often they make. Sense but people love it. I've seen zero indication that JD Vance has a winning personality or could fire up a MAGA crowd. I mean there's no doubt he could get a room full of venture capitalists going or like you know some in cell. Jason youtubers but despite his resume I just I have not seen him yet connect with the mega bass maybe it'll happen time will tell but you know Trump is sort of a singular figure in party and you're starting to see some reporting that maybe his allies are not happy with the pick. A lot of our viewers who say I don't know why you guys are on about why this is a tight race. This is before Biden stepped out. Biden's going to win. It's going to be a Democratic blowout. And I say to people, I know this is terrible.

Because it's two hours or three hours, you'll never ever get back, but you should watch a Trump rally and But if you're close to one I tended to understand the difference The spiritual link between the attendee and the guy who would like to be seen as a spiritual guy, as a Christ-like figure. Just try and understand that because it exists in this weird way. So, where Joe Biden would flub because his words would fail him or whatever the case was, Donald Trump forgets what he's... Doing and he just carries on about sharks and batteries and whether it's better to die by electrocution or by shark bite. It's just his coping mechanism, which by the way, I think people like us who are talking all the time also sometimes do. It's like, I forgot my brain thought, I'll just tell you about something else. That's what he does. It's nonsensical. It is funny. Donald Trump told a story after I got shot with a rubber bullet in Minneapolis. He told months later, he would tell the story at every rally about my getting shot. Much more interesting than what actually happened.

Really more compelling. I wish I were that guy in Minneapolis. What do you know? Was in the middle of what Donald Trump said had actually happened. He's much better. He's a really good storyteller and it does compel people because what they don't do is lean into his flaws. Where the Kay hive is in a funny good way leaning into where Kamala Harris does or says funny things Which she does a fair amount They just ignore that he did that right they won't tell you that it went on this weird Diatribe about sharks and batteries. They'll just pretend that he's something else and so that's another Lesson for Kamala Harris. Lean into it. Have some fun. Yeah, I've enjoyed watching her on the stump looking so happy and wondering if she tried to maybe reduce the grin a little bit in case Joe Biden is watching, but mostly just celebrating it. Where did the rubber bullet hit you? it hits you. Just below my knee which is really good because in the knee it would wreck your knee. Oh my god It was like in my shin bone, which

Apparently is a is a not a bad place to get it, but you know a lot of people got attacked by police that night and one of them photojournalist got hit in her eyes she's now in hospice so I can people need to remember this stuff is real like our police should not. Shooting unarmed civilians who are not involved in violent activity with rubber bullets. No extra protection because we're journalists. We're not entitled to more protection than every citizen in this country should have. But, you know, that's some bad stuff. That was stoked by I don't know I don't know who shot me and I don't know what their what was on their mind or what they saw in their scope. But we were in a moment, if you'll recall, where Donald Trump himself was stoking this idea of violence both journalists and towards civilians. Were thought to be unruly. Those are dark moments in our history that we could be headed back toward if we make some bad choices in the --

On the Democratic side. Is there a short shortlist in your mind or anyone you think, you know, sort of... Becoming the smartest pick. I think there you know folks are coalescing around a few remarkably good potential choices the tricky one of course is Gretchen Whitmer because she said she won't do it but they may be I'm curious to see what goes on there because Michigan is the swing state that is most winnable if If... All hands are on deck. Gretchen Whitmer and her statewide team have demonstrated that. That they know how to win that state if all hands are on deck. And for the moment, all hands are not on deck in Michigan. So I'm curious about that. I think Mark Kelly is a very interesting choice if you are prepared for the risk of losing a Senate seat. That with the responsibility of the security MANNE ad filings that day that they agreed that rZE Long highlights mcardelap s

Appealing to those people who are scared of Democrats or scared of maybe even a black South Asian president. Piro is a really smart person. Sure, it probably solidifies Pennsylvania, Lot. On the other hand, not that much distinction between the two of them. They have similar backgrounds. I don't know what necessarily gets you, but I think he's very strong. I think the Roy Cooper conversation... Is very interesting. He's a lot older, he's 67 years old, but this is a guy who not only has won in a state that Democrats in North Carolina, that Democrats can afford, you know, that would be really good for them to put it into play. He also has done it through appeal to the same things. He has gone all out on abortion.

He is really seen as a leader on that and I maintain that abortion will be the number one issue that drives voters this time around. So that combination intrigues me as well. I think she's got a lot of good choices. Yeah, I do too. I think there's kind of two categories. There's people who jump off the page just in terms of resume and that's a Mark Kelly. I mean you say you're an astronaut like that's end of the conversation. - That's him, yeah. - But I think a lot of people would say he doesn't necessarily, he hasn't jumped off the page in interviews. I would argue that Whitmer is probably more of a combination of both, like someone who seemed to be a really good political athlete and has a great resume and is from a good state. Shapiro, of course, Mayor Pete Buttigieg is another one who, you know, really has distinguished himself as one of the best messengers in the Democratic Party. Period. Absolutely. There's a guy who cannot be shaken from mess. I mean that in a good way as a guy who interviewed people. And I have you know, the thing about Mayor Secretary Pete is that he he does come on,

Show he comes out he goes on Fox he will meet all comers and so part of our job is to is to shake him off his message right to hold power to account because sometimes I've interviewed him when times have been tougher he's overseeing you know he's overseeing a few things that are really bad and he engages all the time he engages all the time and I think that's really important in this in this space that we're in right now He's a great debater. He's got broad appeal. I think I didn't mention his name because I know he's he's on a show today. He's definitely an obvious and important contender. Yeah, he's interesting. So if you talk to people who know him or work for him, they'll say to you, like, just the key to a good interview with Pete is don't bore him. You have to like piss him off a little bit.

Challenge him and he likes that better. And he mixed it up. President Biden is giving an Oval Office address tonight about his decision to step aside and what he'll do with the remainder of this term. You and I won't have seen it when this posts, so Jon and Dan will cover it on Friday's show. But I just wanted to ask you what you think about potential opportunities. Is for President Biden in this lame duck period, now that he is unburdened by what has been and can just kind of not worry about an election in the future. Do you have a wishlist? - Yeah, and the first one we'll see tonight is that not facing the pressure of ever having, of saying something correctly or misspeaking, I think, I hope helps him. Because I admire him, I think he will go down as a great president. And I would love to just hear that Joe Biden that so many of us have heard so many times,

speaking, free thinking Joe Biden. I think it will enable him. Ukraine has not been an issue for him because generally speaking, other than a few isolationist weirdos in Congress. Still generally speaking a bipartisan thing despite the fact that Mike Johnson and instructions from Trump has tried to stymie this. Israel Gaza is a place. That he may be able to use this political moment to say, I'm now not beholden to particular interests to move forward and put pressure on all the parties, more so than he's been able to in the past. But I do think that Joe Biden's not going to go quietly into the dark. I think he's... Is a potent and important force in the Democratic Party and in the world for democracy. I think there's a big role for him in the next few months. Yeah, I mean, I want to expand on the opportunities when it comes to Israel Gaza in a minute, but I agree with you because I think

Anyone who runs for president doesn't just want to be president, they want to be a great president. And you can hear that in the way Joe Biden talks about his accomplishments. He thinks he's done a lot and he wants credit for it. I think the biggest space he'll have is on foreign policy Ben Rhodes and I were talking about this today on This episode of pod save the world. I would love to see Ben would love to see if Joe Biden could cut some kind of You know revised nuclear agreement with Iran now that there's new leadership in Iran. They elected More moderate president. You could go back to the Obama era Cuba policies, which admittedly were wildly unpopular in Florida, but Florida is gone. But important, right? But they're important for the world. Let's do the right thing. Let's get rid of a blockade that's been in place for 70 years. I'd love to see Joe Biden really personally engage to end the civil war. Sudan, which is the worst humanitarian disaster that no one is talking about. It doesn't make it onto anybody's newscast. Yes.

Where you're seeing democratic leaders win elections and push back on these authoritarian trends that we're seeing other parts of the world, like put some wind in the sails of progressives in other places. Those are very foreign policy focused. Those world leaders respect him. People do respect him. They worry very much about Donald Trump as a president. I think they will respect Kamala Harris. And I think Kamala Harris has a great opportunity. To do a lot of right things on that front. But Joe Biden brought heft and decades of experience to those issues where he didn't have to read in. He can use that in his final months of his presidency to do some of those things. Cuba was an interesting thing that was unpopular. But people didn't understand the threat of an expansionist Russia at the time. They hadn't realized. Like all of a sudden, she was really really crucial. Important in a world... The Chinese are building spy bases on Cuba. Right, right. Now this becomes strategically... obviously...

In your days in the administration you guys understood that you could see ahead you can see around those corners the corners are here now we're around the corner we know how this is going to unfold if we do not use the necessary influence that we need to getting out of the Iran deal was the most boneheaded thing anybody's ever We're done because now we have this war blazing in the Middle East and and can't pick up the phone and call Iran and say, guys, listen, this is this is me and you. Let's let's just stop this right now. We don't have that ability. We use intermediaries. It's B.S. Why do we have to do that? We had a deal. I don't know that we'll succeed in getting back into it, but that would definitely be something for Joe Biden to put his back into. When we come back, you're going to hear my conversation with Pete Buttigieg. We're talking with him in his personal capacity as a surrogate.

For Vice President Harris on the campaign trail. So stick around for that and just flagging, we had a little bit of latency issues, a little bit of audio issues, but I promise it's not that bad. But before that, we have another exciting Vote Save America update. We've now had over 27,000 people sign up for Vote Save America's 2024 volunteer program, organize or else, including 10,000 since Sunday. That is amazing. And these folks have already reached out to over 1 million voters. This is a historic moment in this election and frankly, for this country. And we have the power to sway the outcome, but we need your help to have a fighting chance in November. Go to www.votesaveamerica.com/2024 and click Sign Up to get started. This message has been paid for by Vote Save America. You can learn more at votesaveamerica.com/votesaveamerica.

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My guest today serves in the Biden administration as Secretary of Transportation, but he's here today in a personal capacity to talk about hitting the campaign trail on behalf of Vice President Harris and the Democratic Party. Welcome to the show, Pete Buttigieg. - Thanks, thanks for having me on. Thank you for doing the show. It has been a weird couple of weeks. We had the debate, the assassination attempt on Donald Trump, President Biden making this bold decision to step back and now Vice President Harris is the presumptive. Nominee. We've all been watching this from the outside. You're very much on the inside. What has this last month been like for you? - You know, there's that saying there are decades when nothing happens, there are weeks when decades happen and that's how it's felt. So much turbulence, so much upheaval every day. You know, I think honestly, inside the spaces I've been hasn't been that different from what it's like for everyone else just as an American.

And a lot of uncertainty, a lot of concern. But now we're in this moment where there's a lot of hope. There's a lot of energy. One of the things that's been amazing to me just the last couple of days is how people are rallying around Kamala Harris with enthusiasm. And I think that that shift in energy, that shift in tone has been really exciting coming out of everything that we've been through. Yeah, the vibes are good. You were on Bill Maher show last week and you you succinctly but brutally Laid out all the ways in which JD Vance is a fraud. As often happens with your interviews, the clips went viral because a lot of Democrats watch them and think, this guy is one of the best messengers in the party, and they want to see more of you on the campaign trail, including potentially as Kamala Harris's vice I was wondering if that's something you would consider if you've heard from the campaign about vetting at all and whether you need to be vetted since you're currently in the cabinet.

Well, he says I'm gonna do everything I can to help her win. And I don't know exactly what shape that'll take, but I know that my job, to the extent that I'm involved in politics outside of my day job, is going to be to do everything I can to convince Americans to support this ticket. And I think, you know, Americans already support the values of this ticket. They already agree with her and disagree with Donald Trump on so many of the issues, especially in places like the Midwest, where I come from and where J.D. Vance, I think, was intended to try to speak to. So who knows exactly what what shape that takes? But I'm gonna do everything I can to help. So you're seeing reports that some Trump allies actually already regret the J.D. Vance pick. There's clips going around from his event. Where he just looks like a awkward goober and he's kind of bad on the stump. What do you make of the guy? I mean, it's, I think it is a regrettable pick. I mean, you know, he's somebody who obviously has been thrust into this, not a lot of experience in office before that.

Early into a Senate career proved to be immediately to be extraordinary national level, next level leaders like Barack Obama. But most don't. And I think we're seeing a little bit of that. But you know, more than just his style or his fluency or his comfort on the stump, what I think is really concerning about him is how out of line he is with Americans. I think he was ticked on this. I agree that he's from Ohio. He has roots in Appalachia, is this biography that's gonna connect him to most Americans. But you look at his actual views, whether it's the kind of faux nature of his populism, 'cause he's actually on board with tax cuts for the rich and has a 0% rating from labor. And just the more you look at it, the more out of touch he is there. But also you could not have found a more anti-Ukraine person to pick, to put on this ticket, which puts him out of line with even a lot of Republicans. and at a moment when the Trump campaign is trying desperately

distance itself from its own policy blueprint, which is Project 2025. I just learned that he literally wrote the forward to a forthcoming book that might as well be entitled Project 2025, the book. It's by the leader of the Heritage Foundation. It's really kind of a popularized Of that policy manual, which is so wildly unpopular that even President Trump is claiming he knows nothing about it. Yeah, he was a DEI pick for self-aggrandizing biographers is what I heard. I have a pitch for you that falls in the category of easier said than done, but bear with me. You have a very big, very important job over at the Department of Transportation, but nothing is more important than winning this election. Have you considered resigning from DOT and just becoming a full-time surrogate for the campaign? Like you live in Michigan, Wisconsin's a quick flight, we could have you home for bedtime at night. What do you think? - So, you know, just like.

I think a lot of people who were involved in politics are running for office themselves. I'm working to walk into Chewgum. Same time, obviously busy with the day job, which I love, but also busy doing what I can on the campaign and balancing the three things that really Matter, which is doing a good job at work, doing a good job for the ticket and trying to do a good job as a dad and spouse to Chastin, which is, as you know, is the most demanding thing of all.

Duly noted. So as we said at the top, the vibes in the Democratic Party are excellent right now. But you and I know that like a flood of attacks are coming from the Trump campaign soon. A lot of political strategists I know look back at the debates in the 2020 primary and the way the party got pulled to the left and worry that they were quite damaging on a bunch of issues. And they gave Republicans fodder to attack Vice President Harris. Dave McCormick, who is a hedge fund guy running for Senate in Pennsylvania, has an add up highlighting some of Vice President Harris's comments from that primary. They include banning fracking,

Filibuster, treating illegal border crossings as a civil offense, abolishing ICE, the list goes on, but I'll stop there. You were literally in the middle of those debates, you know, on stage. How worried are you about Republican efforts to weaponize the policy debates from 2020? And how does the Harris campaign fight back? Well, look, what the Republicans are doing is predictable. And it's, it's unimaginative. It's what they always do for any Democrat running against any Republican, which is to say the Democrats too far left. I don't care if it's the most conservative Democrat in history, that's what they'll say. And so that's the first thing they're reaching for now is they scrambled to come up with some kind of angle. But, but. I think a couple of things are important to remember. First of all, in that 2020 primary process, there was a lot of lanes. There was a lot of sorting us all out on a spectrum, right, that the 20 of us who ran. There was very much a left lane. And she was very much not in that lane. You know, you had Bernie Sanders, you had in a different way, Senator Warren, but that is not the space that she occupied.

So even within the Democratic Party, it's just not honest to say that she's from some kind of fringe or even from one end. And of course she's served in this administration, whose policy priorities have been in line with the mainstream of the American people, She, like most Americans, she's protecting her right to choose. Like most Americans, she thinks Rish ought to pay the fair share. The other thing I want to say though is I don't think that the attack is going to have a lot of potency given who it's coming from. In other words, nobody's going to out radical.

Donald Trump, right? You're saying led by a guy who talked about terminating the Constitution, inspired political violence against the transfer of power in this country. I just don't think it's credible, even if you do disagree with the top of our ticket on some particular policy issue. At the end of the day, if this election is going to be about who's more extreme, that is really going to be a dynamic that counts against Donald Trump. Yeah, I agree with you there. The other attack that we just know is coming is going to be on immigration, that Republicans are claiming that vice president... Harris was Biden's border czar. That is not true. She had a job where she was focused on the root causes of migration in Central America, but they're going to lay the entire situation at her feet. Immigration has been one of the worst polling issues for President Biden for a long time now. How do you think Vice President Harris can make a break from

The Biden administration's record on immigration and then go on offense? Well, you know, she's gonna lay out her own vision, her own policy, which may be similar in some ways and maybe distinguished in some ways from from President Biden's. But look, I think everybody gets this is a tough issue. And that's why they're trying to lie about her role. The reality is that she did diplomacy with Central American countries and good diplomacy at that. But I think the more important thing, of course, is the fact that Trump did nothing to deal with the decades-long issue of our immigration system being out of whack, and he went out of his way to block a...

Bipartisan compromise that would have really helped. And I think we really need to make sure there's some accountability for that. He did this not even as an elected official, as an outside force when Republicans and Democrats negotiated an approach. One that was, by the way, hard for a lot of Democrats to come on board with, hard for the Biden-Harris administration to embrace because it did concede a lot of things to the conservative position, but that's how a tough bipartisan compromise works. It was teed up, it was ready to go. If you know anything about Senator Lankford, This is not a bleeding heart liberal Republican. Only for Donald Trump to come in and kill it because obviously he needs this to stay bad. He needs the chaos to continue because he thrives on chaos. Trump's campaign manager Chris LaCivita also told the Bulwark that they plan to attack Vice President Harris for being, quote, part of the cover up with Biden's fitness to

serve. This is something you're already hearing from a lot of Republicans, even some members of the mainstream media are suggesting there was some sort of cover up. Do you think there was an effort to keep President Biden out of the spotlight to avoid concerns about his age? And if not, what's the best way to fight that? Perception. Yeah, I think we need to distinguish between the work that President Biden has done and continues to do as president. And the idea of him campaigning, being out on the trail and doing both of those things at the same time. And he made a decision to fully concentrate on the presidency. It's worth mentioning that he's really good at being president. I know I'm proud to be. Associated with that, she has a lot to be proud of being part of that. Uh, and I think that's the best and simplest response. It's just, you know, we're going to hear from the president directly, and I think he's going to continue to remind us of why he has been one of the most effective presidents in modern times.

That didn't change when he decided he wasn't going to accept the nomination and run for another term. If anything, I think his selfless decision consolidates his standing. standing. As a great American president with several months to go in this presidency that I expect he will use to their fullest. Final question. You and Chasten have two adorable two year old twins. I have a 19 month old and a two month old so we're both kind of we're in it. Can we do a quick dad lightning round here? Let's do it. Okay. Which is a crazier block of time in your house? 6am to 8am or 5pm to 7pm? I would definitely go with the dinner bath time block as a rule except Somehow against all odds, we're now raising a morning person, our son rocks up at like 530 in the morning, whatever, whenever there's first light. And if we don't respond, he goes downstairs and brings up a guitar. Oh, man, I gotta make sure I hide all guitars from my daughter.

That sounds like a fun pen. Are you guys fans of Miss Rachel? How are we feeling about screen time? I'm strongly from Miss Rachel. I'm told that I don't know how much she earns, maybe millions per episode. She deserves every penny. every penny Every penny. I love this, Rachel. Swings or slides? Ooh. Um, and the thing about sweat. Things is they stay in the swing, at least like a little kiddo toddler swing, right? Whereas the slide, they can go any number of directions, but potentially off the side, but they're gonna go swings, but I could see it either way.

How about you? We're a swing family, in part because my wife bought the shittiest possible version of a swing off of Amazon. And we assembled it, and we can basically put it in the living room. With a 19-month-old, she doesn't know the difference, so we're good. But yeah, so far, swings. You're right, though. We've had some injuries off of slides at times, because maybe dad was looking at his phone. We won't get too deep on that one. But yes, swings are safer. Pete, thank you so much for doing the show. Great to talk with you, as always. And thanks for all the work you're doing. Same here. Thanks for having me on. We're going to take another quick break. When we come back, Ali and I are going to talk about BB Netanyahu's address to Congress. So stick around for that. Before AI can help your business predict demand, accelerate growth, inform decisions, automate tasks, reveal insights, generate content, you have to do it.

To trust it. Introducing Watson X Governance, helping you govern any AI as data, models, and policies change so you can scale it responsibly. Let's create AI that begins with trust with Watson X Governance. Learn more at ibm.com/governance. IBM, let's create. - Pod Save America is brought to you You buy ACLU no matter who wins this November the ACLU will be ready the 2024 will have an outsized impact on our civil rights and liberties. That's why ACLU experts have been studying each candidate's plans and the impact their administrations would have on our rights and freedoms. Rest assured, no matter who's in the White House, the ACLU's legal policy and advocacy teams are ready to protect immigrants, defend reproductive freedoms, safeguard voting rights, and fight for all our civil liberties. Get the ACLU's Roadmap at aclu.org. OK, Wally, ready? Go get the ball. OK, Wally, ready? Go get the ball. Look at the ball.

No, not in the bushes. Oh fleas. Oh fleas is right. Summer days are right. Are here and so are fleas and ticks. Your pet can get them from grass and bushes, other pets, doggy daycare, and more. But Chewy can help you. You stay ready. Right now, get 50% off your first Chewy Auto Ship order of select flea and tick protection. Stop now and save at Chewy.com. Alright Ali finally Israeli Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu just gave an address to a joint session of Congress at the invitation of speaker John In but also you know maybe grudgingly endorsed by Hakeem Jeffries and Senator Chuck Schumer so this was a bipartisan mistake that we all just were forced to witness a lot of Democrats did not attend, including Vice President Harris, who as VP is president of the Senate, but President Pro Tem.

Murray didn't go, Bernie Sanders didn't go, Tim Kaine, AOC. There's been reports of that, you know, 80 to 100 members of Congress. Skipping. I saw Rashida Tlaib attended but had a sign up calling him a war criminal which was nice. Johnson said ahead of time that there would be zero tolerance for any interruptions I don't think I saw any I do think they might have asked Representative to leave to put down her sign eventually, so maybe that will

count. But Netanyahu laid out an unbelievably dark vision of the war in Gaza, of the U.S.-Israel relationship, and much more. Here's some key bits. I want to thank President Biden for his tireless efforts on behalf of the hostages and for his efforts to the hostage families as well. And he came to Israel to stand with us during our darkest hour, a visit that will never be forgotten. Clarity begins by knowing the difference between good and evil. Yet incredibly, many anti-Israel protesters, many choose to stand with evil. So these protesters burn American flags even on the 4th of July.

And I wish to salute the fraternity brothers at the University of North Carolina who protected the American flag. My friends, if you remember one thing, one thing from the speech, remember this. Our enemies are your enemies. Our fight is your fight. And our victory will be your victory. But for the foreseeable future we must retain overriding security control there to prevent the resurgence of terror To ensure that Gaza never again poses a threat to Israel. - Let's just start with reactions to the speech. - I think it's important to remember that speech. Is to shore Benjamin Netanyahu up domestically in Israel. I think the only person Mattered in an American audience for him is Donald Trump. Benjamin Netanyahu, like Donald Trump, if he does not continue to be the Prime Minister of Israel.

Is going to be in a lot of legal hot water. He'll probably be in legal hot water anyway. So this has become existential for him. I think something he said at the beginning of the speech really stood out for me. He said, this is not a clash of civilizations. This is a battle between. Civilization and barbarism. And this is a, you know, he has, he did a really. Job and this is why one can never write Benjamin Netanyahu off of making this seem not like a war in which tens of thousands of civilians, children, women have died and people have lost their homes. It's made it seem like the 39,000, who are dead are all Hamas soldiers and and you know he's got an argument when he talks about Hamas and their soldiers he's got an argument about why that's a war and Hamas probably Should have paid much more attention to that prior to October 7th. Say what can we keep this as a military to military type of thing. But Benjamin Netanyahu is

Glossed over all of that. He introduced a hostage, a former hostage, which was amazing to see her in freedom. Noah Arghamani's face is somebody we saw on October 7th being taken away. There are still hostages in there, is because he's not actually trying as hard as he could be There are deals on the table that he's not agreeing to because when this ends, he could end. It also ends for Hamas leaders, which is a very serious problem. Why they're also not motivated because the protagonist of this thing will all cease to exist in some fashion if this war ends. Benjamin Netanyahu at this point is as much a protagonist and an antagonist and there was nothing about that in the speech. They were promising some conversation about the day after.

There was no day after other than the fact that he said Israel does not want to reoccupy Gaza, but there was no actual plan. So a disappointing speech, disappointing to see the number of Democrats who stood up for what was theater. Most of the people who didn't attend were Democrats. Thomas Massey of Kentucky didn't attend. And he stated, he said, I don't want to be a prop for for. Piece of theater. That was a piece of theater. - Yeah, and they were props for a piece of theater. You're right. I mean, you're right. Bebe's goal here was to go back home and say, look everybody, I can still wrap these American politicians around my little finger. Doesn't matter that 70% of you in a recent poll want me to go. I'm still the guy for the job because our existence depends on support from the Americans and I'm the guy who can deliver that. I have to say, stepping back, I expected this speech to be bad because I watched the 2015 speech, Netanyahu delivered to Congress where he just attacked Obama. But I am shocked at how upsetting I found.

Watching that, it felt like I was watching a Bush-era War on Terror speech. Yes, it was a bingoistic cheerleading for war, entirely bereft of any regret for civilian Palestinian deaths, entirely bereft of any understanding as to, you can for valid reason and good reason think that Hamas is the worst thing in the world for the Palestinian people. And for the world, but no acknowledgement of what do you think they're fighting for? You think there's random folks out there with no reason to be frustrated by years of what Gaza is? You know, maybe we're just as a boy... Because we expect there to be nuance where there is no nuance. He actually said in his speech that there's no context for stuff. It's like there's always context. That's just a ridiculous thing to say. But the idea that he can go out there and make what sounded like a State of the Union speech in which he just kept introducing guest after guest after guest after guest. After guest and get these standing ovations from American elected politicians, given that we are party to this war in which...

>> And I think that the fact that the number of civilians is going up is kind of remarkable. It's kind of disappointing. And yeah, he pulled one over on America again. Yeah, and yeah, it was black versus white, good versus evil. Like, I have no time for Hamas. I think what happened on October 7th was evil and indefensible. And any attack on a civilian can never be defended. I will never support that in any context. Venom in his voice, the anger, the enemies in the speech. It was not just Hamas. It included American protesters, American college students, college professors, college presidents, and And everybody went after. He you if you don't agree with what he's doing you're actually the enemy, but he went

That's not just the enemy you're an enemy of Israel you're an enemy of civilization he actually painted it as either you're with me or you're an enemy of civilization it lacked all nuance if you are the prime minister of Israel in this fraught moment there is such opportunity for leadership and he has dodged that opportunity at every chance that he's been. Given. There are hostage families in America who are protesting saying, Why is he here? Why is he even here? I don't understand what this is for. Why is he here? We just need a deal. We just need our people released. That's all we need right now. You can deal with Hamas as you see fit because they can't. The Israelis can Masad can take out they know who all the Hamas leaders are they will take out every last one of them And that's that's a fair fight Civilian uncombattants are not a fair

Israeli civilian non-combatants are not a fair fight. That should never have happened. Not one of them should have died in this whole argument He said at one point when he talked about Donald Trump the assassination attempt He said there is no place for violence in a political violence in a democracy That's a little rich coming from Benjamin Netanyahu, but yeah, it is it is and I just want to say some things I didn't hear him say I did not hear

Take responsibility for the October 7th attacks. Remember, he was Mr. Security. That was his promise to the countries that he would keep them safe. - The entire Reza al-Dekhra is that I'm the guy who's gonna keep you safe. - This happened on his watch. He has not taken any responsibility. I heard excuses that absolve the IDF of any responsibility for civilian casualties or for people starving to death in Gaza. I did not hear any sympathy for the thousands of innocent people killed. Certainly the children are not combatants. The thousands of children who have died in this war. I found it incredibly upsetting, as you mentioned, to see him single out the families of these hostages over and over again when we know that. Israel. Netanyahu is believed to be the biggest impediment to getting them home because he won't cut a ceasefire deal that his team will negotiate it and then he'll walk away from it. The protests every day are led by hostage families. They are the families of the hostages are the ones who are

People out. We've had these deals on the table. It was May when Joe Biden said we've got a deal ready to go. Turned out to be premature. It may never come to pass. I hope it does. But that's exactly right. I think we all thinking people can agree these hostages should not be there. They need to be released now. There's no question that there needs to be a conversation about what happens afterwards. And it does seem like there's an infrastructure in a deal for having that conversation that I have this talk all the time it's not not hopeful that it's all going to work out that we're going to solve this problem suddenly, but we can't throw up our hands and say we're not going to. And that jingoistic bumper sticker speech that Netanyahu gave that was literally a good... And evil. You're right. It was very much a war on terror Bush era speech, good versus evil. It's much more complicated than that. And for him to do that and for everybody to get up and clap their hands and to see Democrats. Clapping their hands for that stuff. There are some things that are always worth clapping your hands for, honoring people, a high

That Noah Arghamani, absolutely 100% worth clapping for. But he was giving a political speech for which Democrats were applauding. And I don't understand that. Look, there might be people listening to this screaming at their phones saying Hamas could end this war today if they would just let the hostages go. And you know what? You're right. Of course they could. But we have to live in reality where Hamas is a terrorist group, but they're also a political actor and Israel is a political actor here. And they're trying to cut a deal, a ceasefire deal that includes a hostage. Release scenario and Netanyahu just won't get it over the finish line. The generals want that deal. The civilians want that deal. The Israeli military wants that deal. The hostage families want that deal. There are Palestinians who are desperate for this. There are Palestinians who think Hamas.

The worst thing that ever happened to them it brought terror on their on their homes there are others who think Hamas got me out of jail in a prisoner swap for hostages it's just complicated and for Netanyahu to say that if you don't agree with this then you must be that it's just not correct you I can both sit here and say what happened on October 7th was terrible. I've spent time in Gaza. I've been able to say worst thing to happen to Gaza is Hamas. There's no question about that. But you can hold we're not squirrels. We can hold several thoughts at the same time that everybody there is entitled to safety and prosperity and self-determination. And it's our work to help them get to that. What you heard in that speech today had nothing to do with safety for Palestinians, self-determination and peace. About an attack on what he called barbarism, which we're supposed to mean. Anything that he does in Gaza is is fine because it's all about fighting.

Yeah, and we can't ignore the broader context, which is that the Knesset just voted against a two-state solution. So you know, BB Netanyahu walked away from a two-state solution long ago, but that is political context here. A long ago in the 90s. Let's just be clear that because for some reason there's this impression in the West that he's been in favor of that. Like Americans are and the Palestinians haven't. The Palestinians, the Oslo Accord signed on to it. State solution. I mean they've agreed to that. They agreed that they would not have institutional violence. Hamas is a different operation. We've learned or I hope we've learned most people in Gaza didn't vote for Hamas. They're they're too young To vote for them. They've not had an election in a long time. And part of the reason there hasn't been an election in the West Bank, because these are... Really is in the Americans also didn't want one because they know what would happen that Hamas would also have won In the West Bank and then you'd have Hamas in two places, which is why Netanyahu supported Hamas's funding through Qatar. He was trying to keep everybody out of balance and it collapsed.

On him. But that story doesn't get told. There was none of that. There was an opportunity today for a meaningful speech. I don't think you and I thought that was going to happen, but it was yet more jingoistic than I think we both expected. Yeah, it true. Was. So Biden and Netanyahu met at the White House one-on-one and tomorrow. Oh, they're going to meet with the families of the American hostages being held by Hamas. Look, it's obvious to me that Netanyahu is pulling for Trump to win the election. They're going to meet, I think, on Friday. That said, Trump's relationship with Netanyahu is not great. Here's a clip from a Trump speech that he delivered just after the October 7th attacks. You know, I did have a bad experience with Israel. When we took out Soleimani, it was us and Israel working as a group. We knew where he was, we knew how he was coming in, we knew the plane, we knew everything. Israel was going to do this with us, and it was being planned and working on it for months. And now we had everything all set to go.

The night before it happened, I got a call that Israel will not be participating in this attack. And he came onto the plane and we followed him right from the situation room. We followed the whole thing and about 15 seconds later it was all over and we did it. But I'll never forget. I'll never forget that BB Netanyahu let us down. That was a very terrible thing. I will say that. I think that story is total nonsense, by the way. I think the Israeli provided. First of all, are you supposed to be saying that stuff if you're you know, is that is there a national security issue with describing exactly how you got it? But yeah, yeah, yeah. The Israeli's gave us some intelligence, maybe the cell phone for Soleimani, but they didn't need to be part of the strike. It was just a drone strike the Americans do all the time.

Than JD Vance calling Trump heroin. I mean, they're all transactional, right? Netanyahu and Trump are transactional. They need each other. Netanyahu needs Trump to become the president of the United States so that America continues to fund Israel's weaponry and doesn't attach any strings to it. And Trump needs Netanyahu to. Help him with American voters. So it's transactional to both of them. And both of them have shown a remarkable ability to overcome personal differences to do that. I would say that Joe Biden gave Netanyahu a remarkable bear hug right after October 7th and showed remarkable support for Israel. And that cost Joe Biden to some degree politically. But he did. He did that. That's where and I, you know, I've heard. >> But President Obama advised Joe Biden, don't get into bed with this guy because it never works.

Works it will never pay off they'll never be anything that comes of of of of getting to bed with with Netanyahu and that's what happens. I mean Joe Biden by all accounts Did the right thing by Benjamin Netanyahu after October 7th, and Benjamin Netanyahu is, for all intents and purposes, going to stump for Donald Trump. Yeah, look, I think Joe Biden's a Zionist in his bones, and I think he thought he had a unique relationship with Bibi Netanyahu that could work for both of them. I don't think it did. I think that you're right that the Trump relationship with Netanyahu is transactional and complicated. Trump was reportedly furious. That Netanyahu congratulated Biden on his victory so quickly in a conversation with a great reporter named Barack Ravid at Axios. Trump said of Netanyahu, fuck him, because of that congratulatory phone call. I did hear-- what I heard today in Bibi's speech was an effort to really kiss some Trump ass. There was lots about the Abraham Accords.

He talked about this sort of like new America-Israel-Arab alliance. Wants to call it the Abraham alliance. Abraham alliance. That's a lot of-- that's very implicitly giving credit to Trump. So I don't know. Seems like the political wins. He then, he had to do some stuff for Biden. You know, he said some nice things about Biden ahead of that. And I was wondering, like, is he gonna get to the Trump part? And he did, of course. He gave Trump a lot of credit for the Abraham Accords, which they're not really a thing, they're trade deals. - Yeah, they have trade and arms sales. Last question on this. So there's a lot of reporting that Vice President Harris was in a different place on Gaza policy. And also, I think you could hear in her voice when she gave speeches and talked about Gaza that she just did a better job of showing empathy for the suffering of the Palestinian

The question though is she's now the nominee, but Joe Biden is still the president. And how much space do we think she has on Gaza policy to change things in the administration, or to publicly put pressure on Netanyahu to change course? Do you have any hope that she can put some distance there? I think there's an opportunity for some space here. I think she's got. Permission to do that for a couple reasons. One is Joe Biden, who is a remarkably empathetic person generally, didn't... was... Not able to nail the empathy around Palestinians for whatever reason. It was a tough thing and he got off on the wrong foot with this. And Kamala Harris, I don't know how distinct her policy is, she was always quicker to be critical of things that the Israelis were perceived to not be doing correctly. Than Biden was, but she did seem to be more empathetic. But the bottom line is.

Is aware that his efforts to influence the Israelis has not worked. So now he, I think that gives her permission to say, why don't you try it your way? Why don't we play good cop, bad cop? Cop that's Joe Biden and and you can be a little bit more bad cop. Maybe we'll see. I would like to think so because there are first of all the election may depend on it There are a lot of voters in Michigan and with And some down ballot races across the country that will depend on us having a more nuanced approach to the Middle East. And like you said, she's got an opportunity for a reset. She's got an opportunity for a new set of first impressions. And she's got a lot of backing from a lot of young progressive sorts who would not normally be Kamala Harris supporters, but are at this point, who will probably Say, Hey, we really like you. We want you to be the next president of the United States. We want you to make amazing history being the first woman, the first black woman, the first South Asian woman, but we do need something else.

Union leaders go to these candidates and say we need something in exchange They might go and say we need you to take a different approach to this thing and frankly We're 40,000 deaths in it's time for a different approach. Yeah, the scale of human suffering is hard to overstate I mean the war has been raging for nine months. There's 40,000 people believed to be dead I suspect that number is way higher when you start digging people under rubble that we don't dig into the rubble the number of people Who have hepatitis C or other? diseases, the number of children that are being born way underweight, the number of kids that haven't been in school for a year. I mean, life is hell in the Gaza Strip. And that's the worst part. The thing you just said about the number of kids who haven't

Benjamin Netanyahu said in his speech to Congress and to the Senate, we want Palestinians to grow up, you know, understanding we should live in peace. Fantastic. That should be that should be applauded. How does that happen? It means people actually have educations. They're in schools. There is nothing worse for for creating your enemy than people being unhoused, being in being hungry, you know, you're not getting close to your cause. I think we can share in Benjamin Netanyahu's cause that the people in that region should respect each other's self-determination. We're not going in the right direction on that one right now. God no. Stan McChrystal, the famous head of Joint Special Operations Command, his insurgent math was for every innocent civilian you kill, you make 10 insurgents. So that math does not bode well for Israel in the field.

All right, that's it for the show today. Thank you so much for being on. - We got a short version, what happened? - No one better to talk to about this speech to vent with. Couple things though. First, I would encourage everyone to tune in to your excellent show, Belle Shee, which airs 10 a.m. Eastern on Saturdays and Sundays Also, you have a great memoir out, Small Acts of Courage. It's fantastic. You and Ben talked about it in more detail on POD Save the World. If folks want to hear more, people should buy that. And I'm told you're appearing... At this day long MSNBC Lollapalooza thing in Brooklyn on September 7th with Jen Psaki. What is that all about? It's on September 7th, it's this event where there are going to be more people from MSNBC showing up than I thought worked at MSNBC. Us are going to be there will be bringing our own sort of special flavor you know I do the Belsey band book club where I interview an author of a banned book every week, so I'll be doing that. So for those of us who like to watch us and want to get to know us a little bit, come on out.

And if you're in New York, check it out and tickets are on sale at msnbc.com/democracy2024. Thanks again. Back with a new show on Friday. Tommy, thanks a million. I love it. Finally, we're giving you guys a little treat at the end here. We are going to put in an excerpt from Inside 2024, which is a subscription show. This is from that show, a friend of the pod series Inside 2024. 24, you're going to hear Alyssa Master Monaco and Dan Pfeiffer discuss who they think are the most viable picks to be Kamala Harris's VP and whether or not Trump regrets choosing J.D. Vance to be his. You can sign up at crooked.com/friends to hear the full episode, plus Dan's show, Polar Coaster, and much, much more. Okay, here's Inside 2024. Welcome back to Inside 2024, I'm Alyssa Master Monaco.

Buddy, we're back together. We're now at the part of the outline where it says banter, so that's good. As if we don't need, as if we need reason to banter. Yes. Dan, you remember in 2020 when you and I hosted the Pod Save America series, That's the Ticket? Well, we had so much fun doing that series that we wanted to continue that topic and bring it to you, the subscribers. In light of Trump's selecting J.D. Vance for his presidential ticket and Vice President Kamala Harris becoming the Democratic presumptive nominee, today we're talking about vice presidential candidates, their impact on the... In the surprising ways onboarding a new candidate can be a bitch for staffers I just want to note for just to bring the subscribers behind the scenes that caps in this outline. There is bitch. Caroline has, Caroline has things to say. Speaking of Caroline moderating this discussion today is producer extraordinaire her words and my favorite crooked producer.

Caroline Rustin. Caroline, take it away. - I am honored to be here. I feel like you guys didn't really fulfill the promise of the premise of banter, but. Listen, these things come together organically. I can't fake charm. We can't be forced. Yeah. And it's our second podcast together of the day. Yeah. We can't do that. So it'll come. I promise. We'll give all the charm. Okay. Fine. Fuck. Otherwise, which is also an all caps, but yes. Um, okay. You guys have been really looking forward to this episode. Biden has officially dropped out of the race. Like you said, VP Kamala Harris has secured enough support from the Democratic delegates to win the party's nomination. Everyone is wondering who is Kamala Harris? Aris going to pick for her VP. Fife, what do you think? - I haven't really fully formed my thoughts on this, but if I had to place a wager two-

on this day July 23rd I would put money on Mark Kelly. Me too! Mark Kelly or Josh Shapiro even though I do not feel normally having been in the middle of VP-ness from

Since I was like 28 years old. Picking someone based on their state, I normally don't think matters. I do think that he has such high favorability in Pennsylvania that he could potentially deliver the state. But Buddy like Mark Kelly to me is, he's got the easiest bio to explain, right? In like three words. It's like hero, astronaut, husband of Gabby Giffords. - Yeah, and veteran, and-- - Yeah, hero, that was my hero. - Oh, hero. But also has been through two incredibly difficult elections in a two year period in Arizona, a state that he could potentially bring back on the map. As of the moment before Biden dropped out, consensus that Arizona had been out of reach for the Biden folks. I think Kamala Harris brings you a little closer there and Kelly can make that state very competitive again. I think he has gravitas. He'd be great. Now I will say, I think the Biden administration is going to be a little

That when I was at the Republican convention we were walking around... humble brag... oh what a brag... That was. I was in Milwaukee with a bunch of mega dudes. Well, let me tell you, I bumped into Charlie Kirk. Whoa. I saw that. I didn't actually bump into Charlie Kirk. But Tommy probably did actually. We were kind of sort of undercover in the sense that no one knew We were and Tommy was walking around wearing a red 0% liberal hat. But we struck up a conversation and by we, I certainly mean everyone but me. Uh, struck up a conversation. Some delegates who are walking and we asked them who they thought who they most feared or did not want Kamala Harris to pick were she to become the nominee and they said Josh Shapiro. That's who they were afraid of. The you know, and you know, the other bonus to Mark Kelly, Democratic governor, so if he did win, he

A Democrat would be appointed to his seat. And then in North Carolina, Roy Cooper is also on the list. And if he were to become the vice president, at least for the end of his term, Mark Robinson, who is the nut job, who's running to be governor, would finish that out. Really not really matter because he's either one and become the governor or he would be governor for two days. - And Dan correct me if I'm wrong. Josh Shapiro's won statewide three times. And Cooper six times? Yes, I think that's right. Cooper has won Governor's races twice in very tough years, right? Both in 16 and 20. Shapiro's had pretty easy elections. Certainly his Governor's race was quite easy. He won by double digits. Mark Kelly had very tough races. Sheer also on the list had tough races. And we are ignoring, of course, as we should not, Gretchen Whitmer, who is on lots of lists circulating, although she has said that she does not want to be vice president, but many people say that.

Before accepting the job? - Selina Meyer told us in season seven of Veep that you cannot have two women. Just going to say so first of all someone didn't read the research Josh Shapiro has won three statewide elections That's what I said. That's what you said. That's what I said. She said more people want sex. And I said maybe. By the way, because... Caroline, I don't want to sound like I'm fucking reciting your outline, okay? This is the chirummy banter that was in the outline. We promised, we delivered. What's going to be the timeline for Kamala on choosing a vice president for her ticket? Because we are on a time crunch. I mean, look, I think the sooner the better. The faster that they can find someone, I think the... and get the campaign like really sort of underway is great. I think realistically.

Dan, what do you think? I think probably 10 days, two weeks? - I think they're probably on a timeline similar to Trump's announcement at J.D. Vance, where it abuts up to the convention, probably either the Friday before the convention or the weekend before the convention. I mean, look, the vetting team is being asked to vet. These people, none of whom have ever been, to my knowledge, vetted for vice president before, to do it in a record amount of time. - Right. Who are those poor people who have to just like, dedicate their lives for the next 10 days to going through common. On his old Twitter pages. - Well, it's Eric Holder is running the selection committee, right? - Using the attorneys in his law firm to do it. - Right, so it would be attorneys.

And so these people are gonna be asked to give a massive amount of financial paperwork over tax returns going back ten years at least Voting records voting records, you know records Mortgage, you know and house, you know more there more there there are Heats at their house, mortgages, college transcripts potentially. And just the compilation of that stuff takes days if not weeks normally. And then it takes weeks if not months to review that. And they're going to do all of this in two and a half to three weeks is wild. Had like a prosecutorial background or has been a lawyer, they're gonna look at all the cases, cases that they have, cases they've tried. Then that's gonna be a real challenge for Josh Shapiro - because as the Attorney General of the state of Pennsylvania the cut Sorry, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania there will be every case that his

Office tried is somehow related to him and could potentially be a problem. And how you review all of that is sort of impossible to fathom to me. I want to pivot to JD Vance, which feels like honestly such old news at this point. Something I was thinking about is obviously Trump made this decision before he knew Kamala would be the top of the ticket. My first question before we kind of dig in a little bit more is, do you think there's any part of his campaign that might regret having chosen someone like JD? J.D. Vance has proved to be a d- I think he is the most boring. His speech, he was in his home state of Ohio yesterday and couldn't get a laugh from the crowd. And one interesting thing I just want to flag, it seems like the Trump campaign and/or RNC Applause lines with like a hold for applause and then the applause is not happening, which I think is a funny thing to watch on television. Yeah, I think they very much regret it.

Was a I think Tim Alberta who's done some really great report from the Atlantic who's had some really great reporting on the Trump campaign Basically - it was pretty embedded In their campaign to and so he has a real sense of how they think about things he said that this was the JD Vance one was a pick of gloating. Humorous right where they believe they were winning so cuz JT Vance offers literally nothing nothing ticket, right? He doesn't help bring a state into play. He doesn't solve a political problem, right? You know in the past you often will pick someone who addresses a political weakness like for example Bill Clinton when he was running in 1992 was deluge was scandal. And so he picked Al Gore who was known as the most ethical man in the Senate right Gore then had to pick Joe Lieberman for the same reasons because

Years of hanging out with Bill Clinton had damaged his reputation for ethics. Sometimes you pick someone because they address a, they help you with a constituency with which you're weak. Like Trump picked Pence because Trump had a real weakness with evangelical voters who were sort of the base of the Republican Party. Pence had, was one of their favorites, so he picks Pence. J.D. Vance does nothing. He doesn't help with the constituency group, he doesn't help with the state, he doesn't address the political weakness. He is, the only thing he can possibly do is be a good governing partner in the sense that he is a true MAGA believer, or at least is a Racist convert the mega convert who will execute the agenda in office sort of like Cheney did for Bush, but in terms Helping win this election, he is a big fat zero. Katie Britt, Nikki Haley, I mean I don't think Trump could ever swallow the idea of Nikki Haley, but

There are so many women out there who could have appealed to suburban women from like Virginia to Idaho for Donald Trump, who as someone with a reputation as a sex pest would have like inoculated him against that. I just think that abortion being such an issue, having a woman stand next to you does nothing but help, I think, even if she's not pro-choice. It's still like, See, she agrees with me. So it was such a total missed opportunity, I think, for him to... Who have not picked someone Ivanka-ish who wasn't his actual daughter. - I never really considered a woman either. Like on none of the short lists was like, there was some, Elise Stefanik and Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Early on but it seems that the only true finalists were some combination of Doug Burgum JD Vance Marco Rubio and maybe Tim's Probably not but the Marco Rubio one is another one just ultimately left on the table because their theory of the case

They're very clear about which is why they probably never considered a woman I think that was the political error. But the reason why is they view their path to victory as winning over male voters who have abandoned Biden. Young black voters, young Latino voters, young... White male voters and J.D. Vance helps with none of those things and Marco Rubio could have been a huge asset with some segment of Latino voters. And even if it only helps on the margins, this is a close race. J.D. Vance is a pick you make when you think you're going to win a landslide. Right. So on that, you guys kind of already detailed some of the big reasons why a candidate would be chosen. The state they come from, gender, the demographics that they do well with. How in the past, not just in this election, how often has a vice presidential

Candidate actually moved the needle in any significant way? I think Sarah Palin in a bad way, but not at first, right? I mean, Fife, you remember. When McCain announced Sarah Palin, there was panic in the house because the enthusiasm that he had been lacking was suddenly front and center. I mean, then she did her Katie Couric interview and it all went to shit. And then it, you know. She was impactful in a way that was really negative, but I think you know I'm not sure I feel like in some ways John Edwards helped John Kerry, but I don't think he was hugely impactful I mean John Kerry had this sort of like Statesman-y, Brahmin, aloof, and, you know, John Edwards was this like very scrappy, handsome, young family, fought poverty.

You know, why are you laughing at me? Sorry, no, I'm just laughing. - The Jon Edwards family man did not age super well, but in the moment. - No, no, no, no. I'm not saying that in 2024, knowing what we know, but at the time we got a big boom. Coming out of the announcement going into the convention. It was like, you know. I went to a John Edwards rally, which is why I'm laughing. Were you for? I was pro. I loved him back then. I was like, He's hot. He knows what he wants. He's a liberal. - That's so stupid. - But also, if I recall, we lost North Carolina. - You do. - So, yeah. It matters on the margins only like this is I think the virus do no harm in the vice president The vice-president race is probably the moment in American politics with the greatest Chasm between how much has talked about it how much it matters like you you can fuck it up, right if you fail the

Readiness test like if because this is the one big decision you're making in the campaign and so voters will judge you on how you made It and it's kind of pass/fail, right? It's like a pass/fail course if you do you picked John Edwards even Mike Pence Kamala Harris you pass Maybe a little benefit here nothing huge but if you fail it you feel it spectacularly and John McCain was one of the few people to fail it and the time will So maybe Trump failed it, we'll find out. That'll wrap up the preview of Inside 2024 and our show today. Thank you so much again to Ali for joining the show. If you want to hear more of Inside 2024 or any subscription content, go to crooked.com/friends. If you want to get ad-free episodes of Inside 2024, click here.

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