As Trump prepares to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement, Jon and Dan talk about the consequences with one of the deal’s chief negotiators, Brian Deese. Then, they break down the politics of the decision, catch up on the latest Russia developments, and talk with Ana Marie Cox about Trump’s decision to rollback birth control coverage under Obamacare.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The present exports are pod. Save America is blue. Apron
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welcome to POD save America. I'm John fairer, I'm dyin Pfeiffer, on applied today to help us usher in the end, the planet, former senior adviser to President Obama and one of the chief negotiators of the Paris Climate Agreement, Brian Dese, or us
to the host of with friends like these honorary Cox?
bull housekeeping things should go. Listen to pod save the world this week. Tommy
deputy Secretary State Bill burns about.
All kinds of things around the world, but also some of the faggot Trump has not
I have to state department at all and what that means for diplomacy. It's good episode,
love it or leave. It is going
to be live in Washington D C, a swap what
it goes to the swamp, love
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the exciting. I think it's sold out its
It's a lot of earth, having obviously due to shows he's doing a show on Monday to that, I think, is going to air the following Friday, so that we get so that lover won't becoming too do adds today. But me what may well get Tommy here, also
our friend Benwick, their move on dot, Org email, to say to remind everyone that congressional recess is not over. Some senators and members of Congress are still holding events. Many are hiding from their events, but if you
to resistance near me. Dot Org,.
It's a great website to get tell you all the different kinds of events that are happening within your zip code. To of note
chuck, gradually centre from our for all you islands out there
If I am to Morrow he's holding a town hall- and I will see you can check that out- I don't care
Chuck grossly really to be a swing vote on health care, but be if we find a yell Adam for sure did any
One ever think trigger ass would be a swing, but on healthcare away. Yes, we did in two thousand and nine. We did exactly. That's very true. That's why you're stake. We
needed for Chuck rashly for little bit, because we thought maybe he would have them sense, end
guess: who's having town hall, the Saturday at nine, a M Dan at San Juan Hills, high school in cap, astronomy, Darrell Eliza! Is he coming down off the roof?
wherever they don't have. Anyone is seen as yet, but there's a picture have Darrell ICE on the roof of his office building. Now,
I dug into this little bit, because I couldn't even believe that it was true
DARE Eliza says he was up there to take pictures of all of his constituents down below that, he had just shook hands with
I like to believe that, of course,
He was hiding from its constituents as as what we all but look or fear
uncrooked media were very fair to her eliza. So if that was the way ass, if we, if we are to talk about, I don't wanna, be spreading fake news right. So that's that's! That's what it is, but anyway, more importantly, if you are, if you are in the region, you should go
the town hall at nine, a m look, we we.
In wanting to go to. Some is ourselves, but we are not constituents of Darrell Eliza, and that would be wrong. We don't want to be paid Soares protesters, so we stay
from these. These events I dont, want to continue. The sort of
a campaign to get you to run for office by in a long discussion in my house all this weekend over our prospects for tat,
back. The house. Howley did ask me if you would have any interest in moving into Darrell ISIS District. I asked, but I do not think I'm moving torrent Cutty and it will. I know I said Orange County last time in Summer- get annoyed him. He only represents a piece of orange guy. It's even further sought the mat, so he had no, I don't think I'm removed on their might my representatives Adam chef, so we are. We are a very queer
district crowded with Democrats and I'm a podcast her. So I m good for our. You sure is all I have often thought of you as a cast member Theo sake.
It's really nice down there? I will say: having spent some time and Laguna
each and Laguna gal it's it's pretty. Everyone should go visit. Ok, when we can
We will be talking to Brian Dese about
The Paris agreement? This is pod. Save America stick around more great show coming away. Pod save America is brought to you by Harry's.
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the shop on the pod with us. Today we have former senior adviser to Brok, Obama and one of the primary negotiators of the Paris Climate Agreement friend of the
brain Dese, Brian. How are you I'm good good?
we first met like one:
thus, when our early twenties on the carry campaign- and I
like a deputy speechwriter and you were gene
sterling's protegee member that I was working in office with no windows. If I remember correctly,
equal and then all those years later now you were like you know now your negotiating international climate agreements that Donald Trump
I'd kill. So it's just an steel and still genes, cronies, protegee, it's ok, so
at three p m eastern on this Thursday afternoon, which is probably right around when all of you might be listening to this package for the first time
was expected to announce that he's pulling the United States out of the Paris Climate agreement
Every nation around the world has signed on to accept
Nicaragua and Syria Eve
in Kim Jong and had decided to be a team player on this one. So we're getting into the politics of this. But first we wanted to talk to you. Brian about
substance of the agreement and what it means and mistakes, especially since you are so intimately involved. So, let's start just
what's with the Paris agreement, does
and why it so historic, why? Why does it matter so much care? And the first thing is: I don't wanna be fair to Nicaragua
cry what the reason why didn't you an agreement was because they didn't think it was actually strong enough to do more on climate change,
That's really I'm just us, and often the Syrians, together in the same boat. So so what
the Paris agreement
Some ways is a very modest agreement when it, basically
as is every country around the world, developed their own climate targets and their own climate plan, and they put forward that plan
and then they commit to working as part of a global process to submit that plan to independent review and verification, and had no update that plan
over time. Then one since its very modest. It's not a global supranational government, it doesn't say ever
country has to reduce their emissions by any particular amount, but on the other,
It is truly historic, because it is the first time in the history of the planet that every
we actually came together got over the four, the existential dental about who is responsible for climate change and who should bear the burden and said you know what we're all gonna do, what we can,
now work together to try to get them, how difficult it is to negotiate the agreement.
You guys will remember the at the beginning of the
on the restoration was was noted by an absolute failure of a climate conference back in two thousand and nine in Copenhagen, where everything seemed to follow.
And what that exposed was that there was a really giant rift in the world between developing countries on one side. That said, you know what we didn't causes climate problem. We don't need to do anything about it and which countries like the United States on the other side say,
politically. Everybody has to be together and overcoming that basic disagreement was incredibly complicated and it required several years of quiet. Patient work led into dolphin Fourteenth historic announcement between the. U S, China, which had a broke that developing Tibet
country dichotomy, then from their wishes and all out spread of about a year to try to get every country on board.
I note with like hurting cats, but the one good thing is that, as a result of the whole process, we really have turned a corner and that's why
You see. Every other country in the world- I say before these:
what happens to the agreement with the United States,
pulls out- I mean as one of August
the largest most perfect,
Israel's largest economies, if word
in does the whole thing stand still or what so technical
the agreement continues to go forward and
she today and almost with crawling dollar trompe. She, the EU and China, are putting out his statements of recommending to the Paris agreement
so tat. The greater the agreement itself continues to go forward,
the parties who are in the agreement will continue to be subject to its requirements. I.
Naturally, the agreement has withdraw provision that says any country that wants to withdraw can only do so after three years. So in fact, what I anticipate God will happen. Today's is present trouble said he is intending to pull out of the agreement, but even the United States that will be
office that will take several years, though this thing still going forward. The Paris agreement is going forward and that the real question is, you know out, what's gonna happen
the? U S sitting on the sidelines when all these other countries are writing the rules going forward.
Will that create some sort of incentive for China
India, Brazil, the countries who were a problematic?
Copenhagen Agreement to do something
friend, or they they just decided that the only path forward here is cleaner.
Sustainable energy offers
This is handing a huge, a huge gimme to the Chinese, because the one thing that they will do and they ve already signalled they'll do is they will claim. The mantle of China is a global leader on climate change, and this will play right into their narrative that China is the ascendant global superpower and that the United States is a nation in decline that they will take every opportunity to use climate change. To reinforce that basic narrative. I think the echoes
quickly and politically those countries are committed to moving forward towards cleaner energy. But I think, within the context of the negotiations themselves, what you'll see if those countries looking to try to build out the rules in ways that advantage their countries and disadvantage the United States and be in a week. We dealt with this all the time in the negotiations where countries would seek to put seemingly technical provisions in the agreement that would actually handicap united
or hurt you s business interests and we fought against that tooth and nail and want the irony of the. U S pulling out is that our team will no longer be at that table and not create more opportunity for those countries to put those kinds.
So one of the M one of the criticisms from LA from the right about
the Paris agreement, but as it is being negotiated or right after was negotiated, as you know,
United Nations sign onto this, because China and India and these countries developing nations there,
determining a lot of fossil fuels- are using lot of fossil fuels. They're not going to really make progress towards this that they're going to continue on the path to dirty energy and we're gonna be the only ones that have to change now.
You know where I am a year or so away, you know pass the actual agreement. Do you see
Countries like our countries like China and India, making progress or you know, or are they making progress towards their goals? It up the pace of progress over the last eighteen months or two years in global energy market has been ratified,
I mean: do you remember in early twenty fifteen, when we decide that President Obama would go, we have moved to stay, the union showed pressure but could go to India to she. Prime Minister Modi January, twenty. Fifty at that point the India
committed to getting a goal of a hundred gigawatts of solar which, without getting into gigawatt alot of sore.
An appetite. Everyone said: that's crazy! It's a fantasy! It's a pipe dream were now a little over two years into that process. India has fifteen gigawatts of solar installed are in the pipeline, and indian solar market is just totally taking off and in practice, solar is actually cheaper than building new coal fired power plants. So you're, seeing the indian government announced that they're putting aside the plans that they had to build new corporate. This is happening in practice. The pace of change is happening really quickly, and what that means is that it turns
traditional conservative argument on its head. Actually, India and China, these other countries are looking for opportunities to gain advantage in cleaner energy sectors because they see that as an economic opportunity. So
To what extent can cities and states pick up the slack
on their own. I knows many them already are. If Trump withdraw
from the agreement will it. This is a place where em they're pretty optimistic, but you start from the premise you take just just just a California in New York. Together, they represent the fourth largest economy in the world and their both being led by governors and administrations that have said there not only going to keep their climate targets, but they're gonna increase them that happen
across the country I didn't states whenever public governors welcome crack in the truth is a lot of the actual policy associated with energy sector regulation happens at the staple so that meaningful, and so when you combine that with the fact that virtually every company in the United States, including in the fossil fuel industry, Exxon for Christ's sake, is making
Abby talking the talk about moving towards cleaner energy? Then you can see a canary over the next couple of years, where the? U S continues to make proper progress and we continue to see are carbon emissions coming down? I think the bigger challenges when we get into the twenty twenties. You really do need federal regulation to try to cry.
That continue to drive that curved downward look look a little bit about the federal regulation because
before today, too,
and his EPA administrator Scott prove it
a number of steps to try to undo a lot of the Obama era, regulations around energy and climate, what we
actions have been taken that were you the most since Trump took office. Well,
things they ve done have been a lot of hot rhetoric and the new one pack them and there isn't a lot of their their showed even gonna, take nuclear power plant and that the US remember that have handed press conferences, EPA with the
what matters to you d, be mistress, still haven't actually said within, tend to do with the clean power plants, and they are really boxed in legally in terms of the options that they have. An utility executives are continuing to retire coal plants and invest in clean your source of energy. Can there they have a long queue in their thinking. Past dissidents treasure the thing that worries me, the most about what this intrusion has done is doing, frankly, is the dismantling of the capacity of our agencies particularly appear to enforce local, cleaner and clean water regulation, because a lot of what the appeal does is not about climate changes about protecting the air and the water that our kids breathe and drink, and we ve seen in other appeared of noise. Get that right. You think about Flint, but the idea that the right answer to that is just you know: decimate the aid
see and get rid of all that capacity at the local level. Guiding sat exposes communities across the country to a lot of annual here and now risk that people are gonna, get hurdles result Bryant. Citizens take a step back to the state of the poor.
Tramples out of Paris seems like
Tromp pulls out of Paris is a three year d. All we are lacking from the White House. U S gets back in,
for New York can do some things to mitigate the damage here by it,
how much of these four and maybe eight years of
Best treading water and probably going backwards on climate is a second matter how factory at ACT like
look, I think, we're more fact than we think we are.
What did it, because what we ve seen is that there's a bunch of
about out there about how much in a global temperatures have gone up, and we had dug you to that
it has taken the stadium in every year about Vietnam penalised
seven years the hottest on record a letter last twelve etc, but the thing
worries me the most is, if you look at the activity at the polls in the North pole in the South Pole, but you
These are things are accelerating a lot faster than they are on the rest of the planet, so warming at the polls is happening. It roughly twice the rates and it is happening elsewhere, and you see things like in the Antarctic.
There's a piece of the Larsen ICE shelf that is calving in that is expected to break off
in the near future- and this is like a giant peace- I think that in its like a decisive Delaware and so
when things like that start to happen, there aren't that many fixed structures on the planet. There are too many of them left and when we start to break those things, we get to a point
where in a prisoner balmy to say, and he used say publicly and privately
this issue, is unique because there is such a thing as being too late
and yet, I think, we're wasting towards that moment. So
No, on the one hand, I think the path that you describe Dan is absolutely right. We can mitigate the damage over the next
four years, on the other hand, the one thing we
We have in the fight against climate change. Is time, though I think the stakes are pretty high.
Right thanks trump one more non climate question for you since before you are senior adviser in handling the climate portfolio, you were the deputy director of the Office of Management and budget, known as the Ellen, be new, oh and be Director Mc Mulvaney
yesterday basically said that
the days of the sea bio, have probably come and gone, and
the person in charge of the sea healthcare modeling, is a Hilary Caroline planted by the Dems.
Mulvaney also basically said
we'll, never will never default on our debt and has flirt with attaching spending cuts to the heir to the
at sailing increase. What
What are your thoughts as you like? Watch mic, mulvaney sort of at the head of oh, am be having been there and dealt with this yourself, and can you talk a little bit about the relationship between the o, n, B and C B, o and the importance of the sea bio, since we throw those acronyms around a lot? But you know I just one mature understands how important these organisations are right at the outset. There is none.
Then a clearer argument for why having the she veo matters, then this insane diatribe from
oh baby, the is the congressional storekeeper and he did. It operates at the behest of Congress
and be optional budget is the executive branch of the President's budget office from the presence of square keeper.
And you know they ve operated. There is always a bit of constructive tension between the executive and legislative bread.
That place out win in the context of budgets scoring as well, but on the other hand,
both Owen, B and C B, o r populated by
Your officials who
and who understand and respect their respective roles in the process
and as a result, there's an extra
I'm not a value and having both system. But the idea
first of all. You know the colonel at the current Scipio director what hand picked by the current Egypt a Donald Trump Hs Secretary to the idea of it. He somehow a democratic plant is ridiculous.
And, second of all, the whole point of having an independent arbiter. Around budget issues is so that any
particular partisan of sin group can distort the process for their own advantage, so
You know what I think this is symptomatic of a broader, a broader problem where mulvaney is looking across the government of budgeting regulatory functions that are there to provide a check and figuring out how to undermine,
but I think this is one where any
howdy who sees these types of arguments. You just think
thank God we have achieved, and this is why we need to maintain the degree of independence,
I never thought I'd be saying, thank God for the severe, but here we are
You know what I was when I was at all be either lots of times what I found engage with she be frustrating, but that's the system of checks and balances that we have in this in the right.
Our government, what we put out a plan we say is going to create x amount of jobs or reduce the deficit by this insidious asthma. Now you guys actually off by their sir. You know you're you're, trying to change this and that's why they're there and then you go with their number and then that's? U dont, you don't
sort of tell them even say that they were just making it up anyway.
These thank you so much for joining us and again,
scaring us, but also reassuring us that you know there are citizen states out there that are working pretty hard to fight climate change and, and hopefully those efforts continue as we try
to elect a new president and the next couple of years. Well, let me leave you with one last point: great gift he announces withdraw the process is three years
additional year, that for years and
I just pure stroke of luck the day that
I went into effect was November. Fourth, twenty sixteen, which means that the day the United States would withdraw its November to force twenty twenty, which happens to be one day after the presidential election in twenty twenty, whose estimate that should be about of Haiti
factor forever, it should be well jet with greater prevented the deals with these.
Bright. These thank you for during the blood and come back again soon. Thanks d
don't go anywhere. Is pod, save America and there's more on the way.
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And you'll get cash instantly and you can start sending in receiving right away her rights. So deep gave us a read out of all the substance here. Let's talk about from the politics of this agreement covers all the latest. We don't-
its it seems, like all signs are pointing towards that he's going to withdraw from the agreement. There was the usual round of
Oh vodkas, putting so much pressure on him
and then maybe he'll change his mind like you down after feels online,
lay but probably useless, speculating about this now since happening someone brought up,
and let yesterday that there is the possibility he could just send it to the Senate.
Since, if you send it to the Senate, to have them ratify it as an actual treaty, you
two thirds of the Senate, which would of course kill it, because there's a bunch of Republicans in the Senate that actually grooves trumps, that seems unlikely, read, write a mean. I'd, say about things: one less
hypothetically we recorded this podcast and then tromp surprises the world in announces. Staying in Paris, that's a hike
this problem, people delete the park ass and celebrate the planet. Is that good admissions sex
I think he will send to the Senate, because that.
I don't know what he would get from a he once the the credit, the court unquote credit for,
during the planning, some want to share that credit for destroying the planet with much Mcconnell. So I don't see why
would not just stand there in the road?
ardent with a shit grown on his face and argue that he,
least standing up for the
workers in western junior Kentucky wherever else
yeah. Let's talk about why we either
at this point right like. Why
tromp had content,
did pulling out of this agreement right. This is like just some of the reaction yesterday from around the world and from here in the United States. I mean that the EU,
people from like Al Gore to Pope Francis to most of corporate Amerika, including Exxon, mobile and the former ceo of X, on mobile, whose now Trump Secretary of State all telling him,
to stay in the fuckin agreement
Could, I say, is Ray: it's a colossal, mistaken abdication of american leadership. I can't think of anything more destructive to our credibility than this. That was a
burns. The under secretary of State for George, W Bush
Romney started tweeting about why we should stay in the Paris agreement
so that he was part of along with a bunch of other ceos. Far if trump withdrawal,
advisory council that he was part of along with a bunch of other ceos if
Trump withdraws from the agreement, so it was good to see that although
You know, there's a bunch of other ceos on that council that should fall.
Oh musk out the door, including
Pepsi, ceo and renew Ye Walmart CEO, Doug Macmillan Bank of America.
Has Jamie Diamond gentlemen.
Mary Barra. So everyone should put pressure on all those people if Trump withdraws and- and there are still sitting on that.
King Sham of an economic advisory council. The trumpets put together
and they ve done pulling on this too- and something like
thirty one percent of american american people support: withdrawal
Turning to a recent Washington postponed from January from this
thirty one percent, and that's about that. That shows republicans are split on the issue and Democrats and independence overwhelmingly want Trump too.
One. The United States to stay within the agreement so
what what are your thoughts on, why the hell he's doing this.
This was pointed out by
Jonathan change about peace, on which I think it's I think it's worth, however, what you read his peace, John twitted out earlier by John Fabric, treated on John Cheats, peace earlier to make that clear
but the Republican Party is a key.
Action of conflicting interests, corporate interests,
white working class interests that don't like the corporate interests.
uncle Christians who disagree with it,
with the libertarians. Vice versa, the only thing:
that unites them is opposition to what about
and so no one it doesn't matter. This can be
words to promote
high speed rail across Western Europe, it does it matter it
is the fact that it is a deal that Obama struck in there
or the only thing that Trump can do that will unite. Is fractious. Fuck
our party is to do the things that,
under the things Obama see
they think they're capable of anything. They
can find agreement on in. So that's what this is about. It's not even really about the planet is not about whether a truck
actually believes that climate change is a chinese hoax or whether
What's Virginia, it doesn't matter it's just. It is something that Obama did, that he is gonna undue undo. He can patterns off on the chest, don't feel good
sulphur, two minutes, then hole
go back home I'll turn on
vague you'll see that he still under a increase.
The aggressive investigation into his collusion with Russia until three crazy things. Again, it's like a respite from the pay.
And of his daily life as president, the innate know it and she points out- and this is something that's true across the spectrum of issues now that the Republic
reason for being is
piss off Democrat
and liberals that that they they exist now as a party to troll liberals.
And to piss them off, and that's it
I mean it's like there. They don't you
what I'm talking of republican elites and talking about the dirt it
it's on tv, the entertainment wing of the party, that's on Fox republican politicians, there's a whole bunch republican voters out there, who you know
probably very good people- and you know what
politicians who actually like stood up for them and help them get jobs and lift their wages and get healthcare and stuff like that. But the people were running this party, which are
People were on tv as commentators and Donald Trump, and thereby
look it's in Congress. They don't talk any more about small government, constitutional liberties, strong defence Balboa. All they do all they talk about is trying to piss off liberals.
And make them outrage and that's a win for them. You know,
full of mushroom pus having imposed treated yesterday, you like they, are
Finally, a biker gang obsessed with winning and Hats Buckley
how does it it doesn't matter? There are no principles. There is no policy underpinning. There is none
ass. They are about the accumulate
of power in the annoyance of other American
well in the end. The climate issue is
for example, of this right. It's because
This is an issue now, where you have. The people who want to stay in the agreement. Right are business interests right like either
even energy companies. Even oil companies want to stay right and you.
Romney and you got faith leaders. Yet all these people who traditionally have been part of the republican coalition and all of them, want to stay in this agreement. So there is no one. No one can mount a sum
since of argument
to why we should withdraw from this agreement and
It goes into this in the peace, and we talked a Dese about this too. That during
people are saying well
India and China are still gonna pollutes a wire agreeing to this, and now India and China are on track to meet their targets right. So there is no good reason to pull out of this agreement, except that it was no bomber grim it and it's gonna piss off Democrats to pull out of it. That's it no other substantive argument with it.
This is not his done. A substantive argument because report
look to a person of natural persons
but of major leaders. The republican Party in members of Congress, they will
they claim that they raise doubt
about the science of climate change.
And we should avoid this. People are two categories. There are
Donald Trump who were to die.
To know why that opinions so dumb
and then there is the rest of them like marker, Rubio, Jim Bush Thee,
Mitch Mcconnell everyone else who
two dishonest or too weak.
To say what they think they know. They know that, like they read actual newspapers, we on Fox NEWS. They know that ninety seven percent of climate of
scientists agree that climate change is happening in its manmade, bite
They are afraid to say anything about it and this means-
climate change is, though, is the one issue that,
I really worry about that. Our political system may be too broke
We may live like immediately
It's like this is not some minor way. There are all kinds of policy issues in Washington.
People agree that there's a problem the economy
not doing. Well, Republicans think we should
If tax cuts to the wealthy Democrats, think government should spend more money on simplifying these positions by and they will debate that right or
healthcare costs too much and will debate that. But this is his one were wrong,
views to acknowledge the problems actually happening, and it is on a minor problem
it's not about a temporary problem, its literally the fate of the Fucking Planet and look in its also will will probably here from Trump today that you know
this is about protecting american jobs,
Cole, minors and stuff like that, and that's a fucking lie too, and it's actually a huge disservice to the coal minors in Kentucky in West Virginia in places like that, because he's lying
to them, because those jobs are coming back and if you re
cared about them. He would provide help
here for these people and provide training for these people and provide
basic you know, benefits
their families and try to figure out how to revitalize local communities and not pretend
They fucking we're gonna, be you know, a call fuelled power for like the rest of our time right in, and he also lie in the fact that, like the reason that these jobs are disappearing is because natural gas is cheap and not because we're trying to invest in solar power and wind energy and everything else like that, so
on one hand, he's making up this fiction that we're doing this to like save call jobs when he's not gonna save of single fucking coal job by pulling out of the Paris agreement, it's a lie is
isn't it it's a story? They ve invented to continue a political battle that they just love fighting. That's why they exist
polar Icecaps melt and the seas rise and they flood, I hope, if some,
one sees in their lifeboat dispelling by, and they see much forgot all about leave on there.
Fucking drown in his own bullshit,
it's important too that we know I dont want trumped. Just get the to get all of the criticism from today, too, I mean last week
wanting to republican senators, sent try
a letter to urge him to pull out of this agreement. Once again. This is not just a threat. We are not just living through tromp emergency we are low,
through a an emergency
has been created by the Republican Party in Washington, the Republican Party, as it exists right now that,
can party every single member of Congress that sent that letter to Trump and every single member of Congress who voted for this piece of shit? Healthcare bill needs to be defeated and we are not going to getting Trump out of office is not going to fix the problems we have all of those
we'd be out of office there by means of a new republican Party. That's based on like the few people of pure Publican thinkers commentators, politicians like Ben SAS people like that who we definitely disagree with, but don't play these games. You know it's just that
I'm going to fix everything until that happens, yeah I
let's do one caveat fur fairness assure you wanna be so fair. There lies a either is that our party has not been perfect on this. No, oh, my god, no and where we were in the White House in two thousand and nine, the House Levin S report
They passed a cap and trade bill which would deal with
I'm a change. It would have made this the wall, the land and not so
They don't jump, could
Do with a pen in his study will fingers a caretaker government rainbow, which we should note, is a fairly market oriented solution to this problem right. It had been lighted who, though, without forget it
became Kennedy Liebermann Bill there, you go became decided to sell his soul, the trying to win the public, a nomination into those two thousand and eight right.
So. This used to be given to it used to be a fairly moderate republican position and are now it seen us, unlike leftwing bell, but go ahead, I house dark
house past it democratically the scent
What were we had
somewhere between six fifty nine democratic centres depending on the month,
was unable to pass it because there there are regional problems here, where, if you
like. Senators like Joe Mansion from West Virginia have opposed democratic efforts on climate because of the coal jobs
state, and so because of it
division are party
it ears ago, we missed an opportunity and a democratic party with a handful smocks absences reached a point
near unanimity on the urgent
the issue in a set of solutions that should be discussed as part of that and look a lot of those democratic Congress p.
Who took who took that vote for the cap and trade bill.
Was then they just died in the Senate.
Because of some Democrat
who didn't want it like this,
cuts, the house, you know big, they lost their jobs in two thousand and ten because that vote, because of that vote, and because of the Asia vote.
And so that was you know. That was a courageous stance that out some Democrats in a hostile but
I'm not so created stance by a lot of Democrats in the Senate. So do you think
Democrats can make
as an issue in twenty eighteen
twenty and beyond it is it? Is it too hard to make climate change an issue? Still, there are too many regional differences where you know it just sounds like or about
the tree hugging environmentalists or has the political grounds shifted since then, and this is an issue we should run on. What do you think about that? I think we
after run on it. I think it we should be
what about it and focus
talk about the economic benefits of doing the right thing to do, and how tromp is costing jobs and sit in the ground to China and all the fat like it. The it
have to make it relevant to people's lives, not just in the
decades from now whether the planet will still be there further to live on, which is also important, attribute art about, but but
what it means for
new quality high, paying jobs in their either can be here we gotta to be in China in the travelling public.
That is going to put him in China, not in Michigan Ohio, Pennsylvania, Scots in California, wherever else, but we also have to run out because we have to win the
We have to win the national debate on us. People have to care
people care than used to care, but it
still not something that motivates people to vote. Then we have to be
People understand that there are, if you care about this issue, there are two options. There are democrats,
that's who will do things to save the planet and the Republicans? Who will do things to destroy
the planet in service of whatever dumb reason they have an like dad matter like the people
There was some thought that there was not that big difference on this issue in the twenty sixteen election and some them
voters, in some cases a larger number, then that, then than tat
when margin in some swing states voted for green?
Canada just time and we have real consequences here. They ve we're gonna.
Actually pass the walls necessary to take the steps necessary to deal with climate change we have to. We have to convince people, and the only way to do that
Campaigns here and I do think we have to make the whole case- I think you know-
years ago. Our party sort of took a short cut and we would say the reason we need to invest in clean energy is because
create millions and millions and millions of new jobs, everyone's gonna, be installing solar panels and wind turbines and like it's gonna, be great, and I actually think I think
a lot of people. Don't see that, as you know, that's that's the answer.
Right, like I think you have to make the chair the case that,
climate is an issue that affects our now
security that could improve.
Our economy, but that also is
the call to the fate of our planet to Thee
the air. There are children breathe in the war that they drank and and
future generations, whether they're going to survive or not right, like I think you do- have to make the whole case here and you can't just be the like. Oh green jobs, everything's gonna, be great because it is a short cut right and it's not. It's
The full answer right, like that's, not are our economies not just going to be saved by buncher green jobs? There certainly gonna its current labelling and produce a lot of jobs, but like we need
make the entire case here the honest, truthful case about why this issue matters, I think clean
clean water is is an important point in action.
In the polling that I saw back when I worked on this issue in the White House was the cleaner particular was the most relevant to people right right. Ok,
we supposed to move onto to Russia to the latest on Russia. I'm just glad we can have talked it first today, but a couple couple breaking news items that we should chat about here.
While we were talking to Dese
I saw that gene
call me will be testifying.
Next Thursday June. Eighth,
at ten a M eastern time, so
You know what we're gonna have to return to move this podcast till after the testimony we're not going to play the game anymore death, and for that I support that
so anyway, as attested com is gonna testify so
My question is: can we testifies bay?
sickly an end says: basically what was in the new
time story that he
they were from his memos. He said that Trump base.
Clay. Pressured him, too,
the investigation of Michael Flynn
It seems like now. You have a former FBI director testifying under oath that the press
intended to obstruct justice. You would think that would be enough.
To get some
It's an proceedings in motion in Congress, but I don't know- maybe not giving
Giving commies testimony could change anything. Do you think of comin up there and said? Yes? Yes, trumpeted
Tromp, colluded tromp obstructed justice, you know he's at like giving anything will matter from coming says
This is sad, but now
this is actually the text book case of unimpeachable fettes.
This is what caused Richard Nixon to leave office before being impeached right. This is it his
firing, it is pressuring somewhat you stop an investigation into the president
and his associates and then firing the person when they refused to do that.
Is what every student who has studied who talk. You know
Wes American government, one o one in college. This is what they learn as like this. Would
a answer to the
mid term question. What's the fastest way to get impeached,
But it's not gonna matter
James call me walked up there
I'll be reached into his pocket, found
from trumped up Putin.
Saying hey telling him tell them anything bride.
Guy saying please direct your twitter by
an additional source of emails from jeered. Kirshner too
Britain's guy saying please direct your twitter Botz with the pedestrian emails to
Third Dishwater Wisconsin
Philly verbs announced in summer outside a screen it when matter.
While we talk about this before, but that that sort of what impeachment is right, it is it's not
a bunch of
interpret some legal statute right. It is that the judges are members of Congress. Rightly,
Congress has to judge that something was wrong
crime and misdemeanor. Therefore, it is all
ultimately going to be a political question right and so
The whole idea whether there was corrupt intent or not, which is the
legal standard for whether you have obstructed justice is. It is a bit better.
The point when
people who you know response to impeach. You are not our members of Congress and so far
Congress has not not not been great on that. Go yet tricks
given that this is an original thought, it tromp as immunity by majority. I
you tell me a crime that Trump could commit. They would lead Paul Ryan to start infringement procedures against
raising taxes. I don't even think that I really do believe that nets, our classic joke.
Transported to expand Obamacare and race actors on the wealthy. Then people more, as you know, all right
it no longer even has the moral courage to stand by his one guiding principle, which is tasked with love it
You would ever trumps S cup
things are moving on this front too,
subpoenas are getting issued, left and right here they want to talk to. Cars wants attacked a Michael Cohen, trumps lawyer
We all remember from the says who
moment on CNN when the killer was interviewing him- and he just said says who fifty thousand times so they want. They want him.
Subpoenaed he's already refusing to go further,
in for documents from
Apparently giving some documents over an
more breaking news from NBC, while we recording this
from NBC News. The FBI in Congress are examining a campaign of last spring during which Donald Trump Jeff session,
and shared Kirshner in a small gathering with russian ambassador to the Eu S, Sergei
slack and other diplomats at the Mayflower Hotel. So we have heard about this meeting before
and first it was possible
commissioner and kiss lack. Then it was cushion
and sessions and kisyak and now is a possibility that trunk was in that meeting too I mean Jesus Christ,
of a renaissance sources, are suffering and former: U S, officials, so this is not just Obama deep state. This is five current and former
officials that they are aware of the classified intelligence,
and then you, you add in the fact, was just delicious. Go through a couple, the things that have happened.
Wine, the heat there.
A report last night that, while first
after the hacking happen,
the U S, entity about measures. Basically kick
oceans out of two compounds that are believed to be used for internal activities, United States and now the trunk administration under the leadership.
Regular said when
Once winner of the friend of Russia reward from Vladimir Putin, if a boon F, ok has as
is discussing returning those to Russia and it was originally supposed to be part of it.
Trade. For the? U S to be able to construct a new consulate in Saint Petersburg,
Then they just drop. The demands are now: it's just a gift
unbelieving, which is insane even put this?
that aside, like
I dont even understand how someone would be like you know: let
take this decision down the road until baby we're at night in the heat of the rush investigation. Even if you will thought it was the right thing to do like
a group of people have ever acted more guilty, then these people, but again
if your motive, if the entirety of your motive, is to piss off liberals and troll them and may be blocked raged. You do something like this right. This is
some others. If they do, I think they know it's politically stupid. I know they. They know it will be seen as awful, but
all they want, is to rise up their base and to pass
on the other side, and so they are brazen
possible and saying sure,
The this was the punishment for Russians interfering election. Here you go and were net we know were under investigation proposal.
Collusion with Russians. Here. You go Russia, Erica,
I dont, know things. We always ITALY only reason I can think of for doing something I bet, but the thing had so crazy about that is this: it is the inner raging hypocrisy that dominates our landscape. Is them behave far
policy critique of President Obama over
the six years I worked in the White House was he
is either to friendly to Russia when needed.
I was in charge and we try to do so. They oppose the start deal because it was
to friendly to Russia. They may find it
We Clinton for handing him a weird reset button for six years
then when Putin,
a mere two years later, the
meant wise. We were
tough enough in our response, and so the
beer two years later than the route
the republican parties way of trolling republic
like rats and liberals is to be nice to patent its
fucking in, say we're that is so. We live in a world of such through the looking glass absorb them, as we ve like stepped back, is where does buffet?
every day I mean it's, it's insane. It's not great
it's because I cannot your Kirshner for a second, because I don't want to miss my answer. The the time cover boy yeah. Let's do it is a good sign, but
why do I remember that? Never would have been banned and was on the cover of time, but that didn't go to offer ban and actually I'm sorry it didn't go to overburden for like two
when there's a bunch of stories about
abandoned for out a favor and Jared rising, and now you know now about to pull out of the Paris Harris agreements. I guess been in vain and got his bed
the last laughter I mean,
you, never in that much trouble. If, if the press,
did it whose mad at you has the attention span of
three year old that just eight seven snickers bars rise. Her with his leg is mad at you.
Look it's funny thing over there. Now someone else and the time cover so
They know that everyone gets her time in the barrel, but trumps doesn't have. The attention span actually follow thrown anything, which is why no one's been fired but on.
Commissioner thing. I think that that
political conversation around cushion under
eight, the legal Jeffrey
that he has it yeah, because we
devolved into this in the trunk. People actually did a pretty good job of this devolved.
Who were the debate about the merits of back channels
right now is not. The point here know that
That is not. I mean what it's not about you and I think I think, love it. Did it in time to bring it up it's playing this on Monday, it's not actually a back channel. It is
actual he just basic
turning your Kirshner into a mole for Vladimir Putin,
Yeah, it's letting him! Why didn't you tell me why? I was not right that from the? U S and talking to you
its voting and I dont know russian diplomatic facility and make some phone calls who did this?
He Hugh S Intel agencies will be able to track. That's what it is right, but then, but
and so he felt ass. If eighty six, which is the form you fill out to be granted,
It's better security clearance to work in the government and he
you and I will fill these animals vocations and I can't tell you how seriously they tell you did not lie.
Why do we the scarier things you do? I was even in a tree about your tweets mothers with someone about the age of eighty six, and I was like I was between about it. I was, I was too afraid to talk of it so afraid to talk. But yes, if eighty six right like it is such a scary document and then someone sits you down some unlifelike very high level security clearance and they taught
talk you through the form ray and they all
so basically say like. You will sign this under penalty
perjury and it is a federal crime and you could go to jail for life and you look into this document. You're, like I think, I've been truthful on everything and I've. I've tried to be, as truth was, can but, like could anything I say, be misconstrued and you'd like triple check it and you're scared, and they interview like everyone, you ve ever known in your life and they find people that
you haven't asked them to talk to two Tredick trip you up. I mean it is a crazy process, crazy process rights.
Jewish Christian withdrew that entire process, like everyone else and then
intentionally left off meetings.
The russian ambassador we discussed a becoming
the russian government
At a meeting with a sanction, russian banker, the base
in the back door of Trump towers enormously, the meeting these are
I think you forget
sign the form in submitted it.
And then there was just randomly in the middle, the craziness the first few weeks, the Trump administration there is and how things in your time story that said, try that
push actually left off some meetings with Russians on his form.
Jamie Guerrilla, is very well respected. Democratic attorney said it would
a was accidentally submitted before it was complete
That was why I am
to presume, for the sake of jury, Jamie colleagues, very
The sterling reputation in Washington that jury
commissioner lied to her the approach.
In every one in Washington thought out your cushion with such a nice guy into the cocktail party with him in a vodka once he really like the Paris agreement in doesn't seem to be as racism. They are people who works with I'm sure it was an accident we would, but no
he intentionally wide
your penalty of poetry,
also sign the document,
These are not meetings that happened like
five years prior ten years prior,
like he was probably the week, he was filling out bats rosy and he was filling it out right after the fuckin meeting at the Mayflower.
As such. It is in any one.
I have known people in the governor.
Who have lied on that form about
Youthful indiscretions yeah
maybe a little we'd, maybe something heavier than weighed, and
as soon as it was discovered that they lied. Why
walked out of the White House, like out of the federal government, Reverend
on that very day like,
the innocent and those people are not. People have access
did you do who get the president's daily briefing every day right
more, has access to the most that we have given access to the most sensitive intelligence. This country has access to to someone who,
admittedly it is, it is a fact wide on their us. If eighty six and.
Has not denied? No one is denied that he
try to as a private citizen become
I don't know the right now is robust channel, but to be will
engage a secret.
Relationship with the russian government syllogism after they had our election.
Do you think areas deal
We will see pardons from Donald Trump
they're on any these figures. For any these figures, Commissioner Flynn, yes,
that'll that'll be when we know that shit's really hit the fan. Emily,
you would never, you would say that's impossible compulsory. Do that, but firing Jim call me is the most insane thing at present has ever done since Richard Nixon so sure good times. Ok,
when we come back again sites honorary about all the stuff, see what she has to say,
Rebecca this is pod. Save America stick around more great show coming away positive
Europe has brought you buy sooner zone Us Love Zone, us it s, eye to party my house swimmer, that last weekend last Friday and I dont have a play base, which is what they want us to talk about in the sad blabber play, five, which are the bigger speakers in my kitchen, and people are sitting outside to unplug. It walked it outside plugged in and outside.
Thirty seconds later we listen music outside the easiest thing. I've ever to hasten us, maybe centrality relatedness enough it we want stuff her office. Are that's what we get it right. We need to do. We need to open our eyes. Right now are always has five desks like four chairs and some Lacroix, it's very embarrassing when meetings happen in our office now, because the people come in, we
get out of our chairs, we give them the chairs it. We saw, goes and get some coffee down the street that could be a maker yeah we're getting. There was the start of five, but anyway already really could use some sent us I'll.
Then because it is the easiest speaker to set up error, you turn them on and you
up until five seconds sounded and grow like my play bar, which is the predecessor the play base. I am I still incredible. I was of no use at watch tv, but then last night I was
play a song and my guitar and Hannah never heard forces that you kidding. You ve, never heard this almond, whether son, I'm so much older than you. So I pleaded
the big son us and it sounded underline. I was
last night and Bradley Whitford.
Who play Josh Lyman on the West Wing friend of the Pied Kay
to me and said I
of pod, save America, and I want you to know all my speakers as soon as now. The first thing he said given leave. We live in a world where Bradley, which
listen to something we do likewise. I think the models ignoble we're
advance of you before I got the Obama job on the sand campaign. I sat on my buddies cause for two months and watched the West Wing every day, so depressed about what my life had become and he was the cool guy in the world and it was cool to do that back then, because that was was. I watch whistling and call it when it was when it was new anyway gets him. Sauna gets afflict kept by stoning. Also, there's no code here. Just tell him. The parties not only sent you tell John sent, you sent us a better way to listen. Good morning I was gonna, ask how you feel, but we're both piss today, so we should just I'll be pissed together, well about what thou
there's just a variety of the arguments you take your pick. Would you want to talk about? We have covered up
Paris and I love your thoughts on that. We then talked about the latest
Russia and then Dan, when on a great rant about Jared Kirshner we haven't talked about who fell,
as such. It. Baku fair pay. Man like I am that is like it's like I'm. The only reason to talk about it is that did it stands for it? It is a symbol of everything that is wrong with the world. Like that's what you pay for should now mean. It should now mean that everything is fact replay. Hashtag professor means that everything is fucked
is what it is
for us as a country did so because I was I was out because it sooner West Coast when it happened, and I thought it was like a sort of
In any event, I made a joker too about it, and then you know everyone has gone crazy and all of Twitter was CAFE forever and I was like I'd find and then
bed and I will go
next day it yesterday
and I was really busy say, really pay attention and then, like I get home last night, I'm looking at Twitter, unlike our people, really.
Fucking talking about this is this really is his help, and I joked. I joked right
after what happened like five minutes after it had been, owes everyone getting their think pieces ready and sure enough. Yesterday, someone sitting behind link crystal as a whole these about my my ears, but of course it opens, but out of course, don't read the peace where the fuck am I going to read a piece about cafe, and so I tweet backlog.
Ever disappoints. You know, and then I get these laws series of tweets from Krispijn. Like commanded, even read the PLO you'd, let me winners and losers. Definitely winners and losers for catharsis like Chris. I just, I think it was silly. I think writing about him. Still, I think, sir. I don't care what he says. I actually I had the similar experience you did, which is I may jokes about it. It was like nine thirty at night. Our time is kind of butter, add even care. The urgent went crazy about it,
There's nothing was happening right then I woke up and I
that thing where a bleary I'd see what the horrible things trumpets done on twitter, and I saw he made a cafe joke of sorts, and I was like, oh that that's actually like in a
humanist thing to do make fun of himself and then, as I myself, for to get it over with on and then in. The briefing when chance by sir was in
capable of saying that trot minutes. I bow
and then, and then Hillary Clinton, and with that terrible cafe, tweet at the end of the day, the hard God issues like issues like when will the election be over, I mean I know I don't like the ending of the election like there's a part of me, the understands like real irrigating it constantly, because the ending sacks buddy
damn it like. I just I mean
yeah I mean I digress, there's something going on and like either in Hilary mind her stout minded or, like you know, people said she was an authentic enough or funny
for whatever during the election and so now, she's gonna let loose but like
letting it loose, isn't making fun of Trump and a tweet, because he did that like that, that's not really her fairy, like all that's her she's, tough, like none alike,
Clinton's, not making cafe jokes on her own, and now I dont there. She is, I don't think I've. Also there was like a totally lame cafe joke to it was just like it was like it was. It was that it was a cafe joke made in the lab
like hurt, like her decisions always are, and so we just like the same kind of weird half heartedly or any kind of romantic stating that infuriates us about her in the first place
I think her real self is pretty just pretty nerdy and stuff like that
just be that way. You re
just be nerdy in stiff. I, like that about her, I'm nerdy and stiff. I dont mind it. You know
I also like I wrote. I read over the weekend that Rebecca Tracer story about her by Hilary. The cover story for New York magazine, I added eight and I'd,
left that story. Thinking like four zero sad. You know it's just like it was a tough freed. It was sad images had about the election all over again and
it did make me feel a lot like sympathy for her right and also that something she said in that like that seem like it was her right. She was in
such as her being wonky. She had like what really great insights on the media and Democrats and politics going forward and she seemed unguarded and it was. It was a really good piece and
You know, then we get like CAFE, jokes, and I know
or conversations about why she lost and whose at fault- and it seems like we're like destined to relive this every couple weeks
and what is like David, do tat how terrorism is imaginative boot, stamping on human face forever like this, is our totalitarianism is like Hilary Benn Trop bade each Beth Twitter forever, which feels like a human face being sought by boot. I was actually an essay like so the reason why I confessed unfitting, as there is other stuff to talk about shocked about the birth control waiver Nokia. We should. We do not call out something that, like that something I wish Hilary was talking about right rages that so vocs had a scoop. Sarah Cliff, whose amazing and everyone should follow her work on Asia and a car all the time-
she found out she saw the draft of
how the human services memo rule change. That would allow any company to
out of covering birth control any
company, not just for like moral reasons are not just you know,
companies that somehow I have it have an interest in religious interest, but anyone
without any one to do it, which is just like you,
sex. You know I mean really with we have the lowest abortion rate lake, I think ever
now, it is continuing on a downward trend for many years. Would
You guys don't. He has heard the Ben. How episode that we did? We were here. We were yes
so you have been actually, I think, said something I I wish other conservatives would would hear and understand, which is it that the proper pro life position is free government pay for birth
troll for every woman who wants it,
if you really are against abortion. If you wanna go, if you
to reduce the number of abortions as country, you should tat make sure every woman who, once birth control gets it because
would do it right, yeah again, it's another position is also like another move that its it is
It's a move that would make its making such a small constituency happy right, like
without their saying you know like, is that, like? I bet, if you pulled Republicans
still have a majority republicans who thought that
companies should provide free, both inside and like also even Jellicoe, don't necessarily believe their birth control is at work. An abortive account right right,
that's actually of small minority, even of like people who are
Christian proliferates, who think that birth controls a problem so you're like what they like about. That kind of policy is the idea behind it with each of the idea of the accuracy Ito really they're, not even personally necessarily like opposed to birth control. Ray
like you, ve, been jungles whose birth control believe it or not. Like a lot of people who too,
it's in, and that is also creating small it is. Is it affects every
I'm not just women. It affects everyone.
In ITALY, because small constituency happy and it it just
in its also reminds us all that lake you know we did get President Pence too, there's not lake. We have the absolute worst of all possible worlds, and this presidency thicket hurry of an embarrassing buffoon in the front
and you know
critical gleeful Theo crack in the back in our you like there's, no turkey that that make sense, don't aim a middle way.
So who's who's on the partners weak. Oh, we actually one. Why well? How many guess, I guess, technically to W Canal Bow host of United States of America,
the gas, so nice yeah he's awesome. He someone up Tartu several times got a really great
If time at race in America, and also difference in his show is kind of jobs,
MR show to mine, and then it's about creating uncomfortable, come conversations and talking about difference, and we
something that I do every once while which is that we had some one call in
how about a problem,
regarding relationships and politics in their life and actually incredibly, for me heartbreaking
story from this woman whose parents.
I spoiler alert her parents who have some
she's about race that are causing problems in her
they ship with them and relationship with her husband and
ah, come out whose also in a by racial marriage himself,
was just really helpful and thoughtful about it, and I spoke to us for the issue of them having kids and how do you deal
with grandparents, it may not be reflected,
if the values that you want your children to grow up with like how do you negotiate that, and I mean I think, that I'm.
Yeah? I talk about the fact that my mother conservative, better.
I swear. I know a lot of people deal with the issue of having people in their family and people. They love disagree with them, but this woman stories like a sort of an
order magnitude more intense, because it just really apparent like where the problem is so. I hope
helped her out with that- and I know there are people out there dealing with the same kinds of things. Can I get so much,
male about it. That's great,
and everyone should listen.
So that'll be dropping tomorrow, re on Friday, yet tomorrow standing
with friends like these. Everyone go download the latest episode and subscribe and right
and Riviere and Rain review yeah. We need to better rating in reviewing the Itunes store. We start with that and it always helps
when are we going to get more merchantmen? Have you like put you on the spot right now? We are issues we are. We are figuring that out right now we are looking at various sir various
option, so it will love.
Happen soon, because we want more March yeah
We want we want March for all the shows yes were dreaming of, like t shirts with you know the
The positive, the world logo and loved her leave logo and you and you re you're gonna get our consecrate you ask and comfort is that as a tool of oppression, that's like the one that I think people away from my should you think Tommy will ever where a short without a
and media logo on. I can hidden banana me. The guide him studio. I know you're looking to hear now. Will you be here with a bank s pose? I live, I was it worth it. I was starting to sneak cigarette
It did so great that we usually we get a surprise at the end of this conversation with love it but love. It is in the air today flying to DC for his big show,
we have time to disobey. Slash friends wedding
but tell me I'm loving her show. Lately they get you're doing a great job. I bit so been really helpful forgetten through this incredibly carbon complicated time. I now my strategy is book. Really smart people and then speak as few words as humanly possible the. I think that your onto something that you and I see this, I shall have to buy the way. There's a there's, a march for truth happening in Washington DC the Saturday it's about going to the boy
bottom of the rush investigation like tons of people, move on dot, org bunch of other groups are there and there can be a bunch
beakers and John Love. It's gonna be one of the speakers at the rally. How are we supposed to laugh at the right out? Another area during the rest of us so guys people take it seriously now try to sit with us
robots are literally there. You would want it. I guess we're gonna go, do some adds, but it was great talk to all and have agree we can tackle this week. I won T go.
Transcript generated on 2020-04-02.