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“Norway, if you’re listening.”


The President says he’d accept foreign assistance to win in 2020, Democrats hold contempt votes over the Census scandal, Joe Biden and Donald Trump tear into each other, and Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders deliver two big speeches. Then Congresswoman Ilhan Omar talks to Ana Marie Cox about her new plan to relieve student debt.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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I welcome the POD save America, I'm John Favour audience like later in the pod you'll hear the conversation that Congresswoman Ill Omar had with Honorary Cox during last Friday's pod, save America in Minneapolis. Before all we ve, got a lotta news to talk about from the President saying he accept foreign assistance to win, and twenty twenty two is viewed with Joe Biden to a couple of big speeches delivered by people to judge and Bernie Sanders. You should also check out this week's parts of the world where Tommy and Ben dig into mere PETE speech all the foreign. Policy there and also talks about the huge protests in Hong Kong in Russia on Friday will these Tommy's interview with Andrew Yang as a bonus pod, save America Yang, was here at a cricket heads
where's the other day in big news. About our LOS Angeles, show at the Greek Theatre on August, seventeenth will be joined by Emmy award. Winning journalists Gmail Hill there will be special before MRS, by Amanda seals best coasts in Jim James and pay Seeds from the show will be donated to fall organizations that are protecting your right to vote, vote, dot, org election protection, the National Redistricting Foundation and think social impact. So go get your tickets now, a crooked dot com, slash the Greek it's going to be a great show in August. I must get to the news on Wednesday the press of the United States made it clear that he will gladly collude with foreign governments if their willing to help him when the twenty twenty election, when, when I was asked by George Deaf Anomalous, whether his campaign would accept damaging information on his twenty twenty opponent from countries like China or Russia. He said the following quote:
I think you might want to listen. There isn't anything wrong with listening if somebody called from Norway, and so we have information on your opponent. Oh, I think I'd want to hear it and when if an apple has reminded trumpet FBI director Chris RE said that anyone in possession of such information should alert. The FBI Trump said quote the f B. I director is wrong. Then what are the implications of wood trumpets anger? I think we're up with his embers backed our first, which is you know, the people who commit crimes take selfies of himself committing crimes and then postal services on the internet wonder why there in police custody? That's my business. This is the present aid states promising world stupid. It's crazy! You commit a crime saying if I have given the opportunity to commit a crime and accepting. Anything, a value, whether its money or information from afar.
In source is a crime in the president said that he would commit a crime and he would not tell the FBI about it. It's also items is we're disabled, it's more than a crime. I mean he's. He, the president, is willing to betray the country he took an oath to protect and betray the constitution betray his oath of office in order to win an election, because everything comes back to Donald Trump, who will do whatever it takes to win whatever it takes to enrich himself whatever it takes to make it all about Trump, he will do anything. He will commit crimes he'll, but his country. He doesn't give a shit and look at by saying this publicly by doing this out in the open Kendall any in it NBC tweeted numbers essentially inviting foreign intelligence services to spy on his political adversaries and send him information. If you were the chinese government, if you
the russian government, if you were any other government that out there that wishes us harm. Why wouldn't you take Trump statement as a green light to use your spy services to hack into more Democrats emails to spy on us to do whatever it takes to steal more informed? and and fuck with our next election. Why? Wouldn't you do that? Because you know the present it states that he is willing to receive that information. Does our trump is an incredibly transactional human, his very close relationship with the Saudi Arabia? Is it just based on whatever financial interest he hasn't said Aramis, also based on the fact that they projected an image him on a building when he went there and he was flattered by it. Countries are getting federal benefits and favourable policy decisions because they are spending money at Trump hotels because they say nice things about him, and so obviously, if you,
want to curry favour with Trump. What better way to do. It then help him get reelected. It is a tiny investment with a huge pay off for any country. Who was what who has a real stake in trumpeting president over a Democrat and come twenty twenty one? I mean the present the prisoners does a serious national security threat to the country. That's where we are right now: it's not a fuckin exaggeration. He is a national security threat and one of the world's dumbest criminal, I mean question for you. If you are working for a democratic presidential candidate right now would say or do anything in response to this? Aside from what many of them last night, which is tweet out. You know that reiterate their calls for impeachment via tweet or statement I mean, if I haven't done it already. I would put to factor authentication of my phones and get all of my staff to start use. Signal or other encrypt gaps, because the threat is
Having I dont know, there's not much else you can do other than I think what these candidates did. I do think that there is something more important than the tweet of the moment or the statement, the moment about this. It is too use this as an opportunity to tell a bit your story about just how dangerous the moment we are in an american democracy, and that is a story that I'm not sure any Canada has yet hit on it. That covers that encompass, the gravity of the moment, the stakes for our country and what could happen? going forward if tromp were to win, and I think that this is as good a reason at all that story as there is- and I hope candidates do that yeah I mean I for some reason. I start thinking about this last night like if this was it. This was away, and this was happening, and I feel like we all- would have gotten a call last night and then today obey
I might have gone out and given a speech- or at least you know, a top on a speech or an uncertain speech where he sort of laid out. You know it's, it's not just about impeaching trumpet this point. It is about the fact that the President states, as a national security threat, that we now cannot be sure that we will have fair and free elections and twenty twenty, because the president has referred used to defend our electoral system and Mitch Mcconnell by the way has blocked every single piece of by partisan election security legislation that has come through the Senate right now, and I was one of the candidates running for president, who was a senator who had some power. I would do whatever Turk, and I would talk collop trucks, humor and say, like let shut the Senate down until we pass some election security bill is- or I don't know if they can shut it down, but let's, let's make a big deal of it. So you know I'm it's it's sort of it's one of these,
moments where you know we can all about on twitter about it. We got a gun peach on which you know we're gonna get too, but there's something bigger at stake to the sanctity of our elections, and I do think that probably matters to them in people even more than this debate over impeachment it You are correct that it is the sanctity of this specific election, and that is obvious. Incredibly critical we ve had one election interfered with. In a very recent past, but there's, I think, is even something bigger than that. It is about more than one specific threat to and welcoming election It is an idea that the present I had states can Go on national television, invite foreign countries in other outside players to inner, in our elections, to essentially suggest that he is open for business for criminal conduct and that their no accountability for that what that is
It is to be rewarded by the vote. Yours, either on the love or not on level depending on on, if we can protect our electors, If that is, we reward him, we that is allowed to continue. That is a get back to American Denmark. So that we may not come back from that what it how Our government operates hell. Our country thinks of itself as imperfect as it is in its history is something that will forever be different. That is like what is at stake in this election, and I think that that is all these individual things that you that we talk about here were those what trumps Ed. What Mcconnell is doing, what we can talk about the senses. A minute are proof, points for a larger threat. That extends well beyond the selection, and that would, I think, be the message that will come out of the call that you do. You know how that will call that we would have.
If this were the away campaign- and that is a story that I think the candidate who can we ve all this in together into a broader story? That's about more than just a trumpet. It's about this moment of danger in american democracy is, I think, who has the best chance of succeeding yeah, and it is about the fact that democracy is at stake right now that nothing less than our democracies at stake and all the ways it is, and you see a couple different candidates, dancing around this. You know, let me we're gonna talk about Bernie speech. He kind of gets there from the economics in point, as does Elizabeth Warren. You heard Joe Biden. Talk about it in Iowa when he said that presents national security threat. You hear better work, talk about it all the time when he says you know lose our democracy. If we don't peach him, but none of the have really sort of put all of the puzzle pieces together into a war. Argument about how you know under Donald Trump? Our foreign policy are democracy. Everything is up for sale and up for grabs, because if you flatter Donald Trump, if it means that Donald Trump can win something. If it means a Donald Trump can get richer than it has
If it doesn't then fuck, you write like every its he again, he ran on an America first policy. And really its trump first and everyone else last, that's. That seems to be the message and it's you know. I think it's could be a power message and also like the moment, wherein is very dangerous, and people should call that out this move more democratic, how members towards impeachment it should have hidden. I like, if the evidence is, why was going to be the factor that move Democrats appeasement there would be impeachment inquiries right now. There is more than enough evidence. There are crimes in corruption abuses of power, their crimes. His demeanor, is high and low all over the place that our aid very obvious, very credible, pre tax for an impeachment in, quite so that, so I don't know that another piece of evidence is going to move it there. I watch Nancy Pelosi's press conference that she did just a few minutes ago and she seemed no closer to impeachment that she
as last week or the week before that you would think there be some movement by the other. We have we I refer to page report, which is essentially impeachment inquiry wrapped in a bow in that hasn't moved House Democrats in the right direction yet so caught color me skeptical, yet I mean look. I saw you know our friend near at hand in on twitter. Last night thing you know, don't don't yellow closely about this. Impeachment is not about removing from four hours it's not going to stop. This is going to stop him from accepting foreign information and
twenty and she's right about that. But I also think that this is a moment when we have to do everything we can do and use every tool that we have and sort of again focus the country's attention on just what this president, not just with its president, did in the past and the crimes committed in the past, but what he may do in the future and I think impeachment is sort of the last best tool. We have to do that right now, and I also think that look the the strategy of in a whole bunch of investigations and oversight of Donald Trump Andrew, I understand that strategy and understood it when Nancy Policy first started that strategy? I disagreed with it, but I understood where she was coming from that strategy has failed. It's been a couple months now. It has failed. They had a hearing earlier this week. They had John D, at the hearing. You know former Nixon Council they
add a couple. Other federal prosecutors who believed that day, you know, Donald Trump should be impeached all people who, by the way, this for a long time on cable news, though it was like nothing new, their didn't get that much attention we're, Gretzky thinking when they win these court victories here and there that somehow moving the process forward. But again this isn't about the process. This is about sort of the communication strategy and its about sort of whose owning the message here and who's, taking up all the oxygen, the media oxygen and no message getting through from the Democrats right now, there's no message on either why the president I'd states is unfit for office and should be impeached or a message on health care and all the other issues. The Democrats say they want to focus on so right now
we're getting the worst of all worlds like. I just don't see that the strategy is bearing fruit in any way. Do you know it is not in your right the alternative approach that policy in a democratic leadership offered after report came out? Why is on paper a credible alternative approach, you don't agree with it, but idea of a long series of high profile hearings, we get a lot of attention as a penny your pretext to impeachment inquiry was credible, but that has not happened. That cannot happen. That is not going to happen. For we are living in a world where the press coverage is about. Why Democrats are afraid to impeach Trump and Bill BAR Z, grandma, Donald Trump running in aggressive, active public investment. And to try to discuss the more investigation- and so there is no, there is no argument. The Democrats are making is consistent and that arguments not getting through
The only options here, in my view, are we have two either begin impeachment inquiries and have that argument on a wide array of issues. As we have talked about the go above and beyond what was in ensconced, similar report or move on Because, as having a debate about impeachment every day, is war is the worst of all worlds. It is x, is the exact world the report, kids were in it eighteen? Ninety eight with Bill Clinton when they got there s his head. Is them in the election? Is that I had Want voted to launch an appeal for held no hearings for no message made no argument and got destroyed in the polls and Brooklyn providing end up going to up to like seventy three? And so now in peach. If you have the we have, if there are voters who are upset at the mere idea of appeasement, we ve put that on the table. But if there are You could be persuaded by the evidence. There would be unveiled veiled, inefficient inquiry that is now happening. Those words will not be persuaded, so the whole thing is stupid and frustrating, and
the pressure mounts everyday only in the sense that Trump is This gives you more ammunition to the impeach the prone patrons either argument every time he opened his mouth and look in the pool bear this out to I mean there's a new Paula yesterday. That said forty four percent of him and people are now in favour of impeachment, but only thirty percent believe that impeachment proceedings should begin. So they did the forty four percent think he deserves impeachment and thirty two percent believe that a impeachment Eric should began among Democrats. Eighty five percent of Democrats believe the Donald Trump deserves to be impeach. Sixty percent sixty two percent believe that impeachment pretty seeding should begin that gap There is the Fuckin democratic consultant gap between every, as everyone is abundant now right, where people believed the president should be like. If someone made this point
Adam generals, who made this point on Twitter. I yesterday Harry reads former deputy chief of staff that you cannot find one democratic member of Congress right now who believes that Dumb Donald Trump should be impeached. Every single one of them are unanimous in believing the Donald Trump should be impeach, and yet they are all too afraid to actually vote to begin impeachment proceedings because they don't want to do the hard work of going back to districts and convincing their voters convincing the people that they represent. That, even if you're, not with us on a peach me, even if you think that this proceeding is a bad idea, it's the right thing to do it's a good idea and I am willing to make the case for their just not to do that and so on. But I agree with you like it. If they're not willing to do that, then just tell us just you know I get up at a fuckin press conference and say we all believe that this president deserves to be impeached, but we are too afraid to do it because
Looked at the polls and we don't think you agree with it. So we're all moving on just say that at least respect that there is a true, a tourism in politics, that you can never win an argument when you arguing against the thing you believe Yes, I hope if the democratic position is Weebly, Donald Trump should be impeached, but we're going to get try to convince the people that he shouldn't be in peach you're, going to lose that argument that there is no moral or rhetorical or political force behind that argument, and that is where they are in position to decide to live in the worst of all. Yeah! It's it's bad! Let's talk more about the democratic Rajiv investigating incentive. Impeaching is working on Wednesday. The House Judiciary Committee voted to hold attorney general, William BAR in Commerce Secretary Wilbur, Ross in contempt of Congress. The vote came after the President invoked executive privilege to block the disks of documents and information relevant to the trumpet ministrations decision to add a question about citizenship to next year's census. One clue about their reasoning for
why they added this question came from found in the computer of a recently deceased republican strategist, who suggested that rigging the census with citizenship. Question could quote, be advantageous to Republicans and non hispanic. Whites The supreme Court will be deciding on the legality of the question this month. Didn't you talk to our environment and of Mother Jones about this in the pot a few weeks ago. Can you were my? why a citizenship question would be advantageous to Republicans and non hispanic whites and talk about why in general, this is such a big deal. So The census is used to do many things, but it is designed to help us decide where people live. So we can therefore allocate political power proportional to the population. So the census results which happen every ten years are used to decide how many electoral votes every state has how many congressional seats those states have. How the
power havoc irrational seats in this legislative seats are allocated with in those states, and so therefore is critically important that it be accurate and the senses itself estimates that there would be a six percent under count. If this question is added, That's because a lot of people who will decide not to respond to the senses, particularly in communities of color, where there are our people have very legitimate fears about how that information will be used against them? With this president in Amazon, that means is that communities of color which arch additionally, democratic will be more receive will be, under counted and therefore receive less political power and that is a the it. If that were to happen. That means that our government will be operating based on a false premise. For a deck, there is not there. Is that any easier obvious way to fix this? If this is allowed to happen? This is very good.
Have we designed as you as indicated in these documents that were found on this Republicans computer? That say that obviously, if committees of color do not responded the right right, then they will have less political power and that will shift the political power in favour of more white introduction republican areas. I mean, let's typo. This is really about two. This is about counting undocumented immigrants as part of the senses which the census is supposed to be. I count of all persons in the United States. There is a reason that, on Doc, Did immigrants are part of that is because they are human beings and people in this country who pay taxes who own homes who work right like we need a cow of all the people in this country, not saying that you know they should have voting rights of their undocumented, but they need to be counted as people, because, by
where they live in communities with other people with with american citizens too, and if those communities aren't counted correctly than those communities filled with immigrants, undocumented immigrants, american citizens, whoever will have less political power in this country. They will have less federal resources in this country. And so you know, the that the community's there will be, and that will be under counted the states where there will be undercutting or states with large minority populations like California, Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Georgia, New York, Florida. They think those are the states, it would be most under counted. Those states will lose federal resources, they will lose representation in Congress, they will lose.
Lecter Oral power, the Republicans notice, they know that those are not traditionally most of them republican states, and so they are happy to sap those states of political power in federal resources. If you live in one of those states, are you live in a community that is diverse? You could be affected here. It's a very, very big deal in this very specific point. You said about feta resources. Writhings important, which is the overall population per community, is how a lot of federal funding is allocated allocated by populations of a population has no vacuity, as one million people it will get Ex Federal down
for education or health care or homeland security, and if it has too many people, it'll get two x the funding, and so if that number is wrong, then that is a fact. As you point out, affect everyone and that committees it is reversed civic. This is about more than just who gets a vote. It is about how much help there that the education, health care and welfare of the entire community, not just the non citizens in that committee, which includes a large number of people who were here completely legally, with the permission and understanding of the federal government. That's exactly correct. Yet these are not like all undocumented immigrants in the shadows. These are people who have green cards are people you know, but if you provide your information, your personal information to the federal government, especially this federal government, that's deporting people left and right without much regard to you know their status. Sometimes, then, yet you would be afraid to fill out the census. So will this contempt vote? Have
any practical effects, and what else can the Democrats do here, especially of the Supreme Court, ruled in favour of tromp? What is the point of this whole exercise? We're fucked up clemming engine like there is not an obvious or easy solution. The contempt vote is mildly. How foolish- sometimes be away to force. Negotiate generosity additional documents in actually worked with the judiciary is committees, contempt, citation on way Bar is related to the Mulder report. By like we had to be very clear about what is happening here. Is that rigging of the senses is part of a very specific long torrent. Plot by concern? it is in this country, too, ensure that aid shrinking plutocratic conservative minority rules a growing, diverse, populist, progressive majority? That is what this is about, that
says we are quickly editor world, where there are more Democrats and Republicans living in this country, the more political power if there are votes, were allowed to count if their population is allowed to count, and they are trying to stop that. It is what further steps it is about is what Jurymen hearings about its, what stealing merit girl and supreme courts? It is about an that's what this is about. An. I I really wish there was an easy solution that was the hardest part about my conversation with our Burma, who has been screaming from the rooftops about this. For a long time is that there is not in ease our obvious solution. If the rulings are allowed to rigorous anticipate essential it, maybe a democratic set, a democratic president get redo the census, but that would be somebody would be entirely and in the history of time and I think what the Democrats are trying to do here, all they can do is you know, use this information to build that case for impeachment. As we ve been talking about that, it's not just the airport report, it's a lot of other things, because.
If you know the Supreme Court and decide how the Supreme Court the size of the Supreme Court, which is now filled with that, you know partisan, Republicans as well a hum. But you know if, if the, if the Congress can at least expose more documents like the one found on the this deceased republican Strategies- computer, it says they didn't add these citizenship question to the census in order to enforce the Voting Rights ACT, which is their excuse, but they did it because they just wanted to rig the census of the Republicans gain more political power. Then perhaps they can expose the corruption at the heart of the Republican Party in this will add to the argument for why Donald Trump should is unfit for office and should be. Peach that sort of the best case scenario here, which again is not the greatest case, because they could still get their citizenship question now our night and we have an open and patient inquiry. So right of course now, because the investigations gonna handle themselves Skynet magically
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saying that the president is quite literally an existential threat to America. Trumps been telling us after by an old, feeble and stupid and on Tuesday he said, quote he's a different guy. He looks different than he used to. He acts everything he use do he's even slower than he used to be then. Besides, this tit for tat making you wanna blast yourself into outer space. What did this exchange tell us about these strategies of these? Candidates it surfer trump. It says that he wants to re run the two thousand sixteen campaign against Biden. He wants to paint him as a corrupt member. The establishment He wants to use unfounded, rumours, add Douglas, also suggest his opponent is unwell or in farm, which is ironic as all get out. Ah given trumps age and his infer these are, but as we try to do, we he is re running the exact same play in the only question is whether the Democrats and
many in the media, who uncritically echoed trumps. Rumour mongering and false statements will learn any lessons from other sixteen. We are living and Groundhog Day the meets and of tomorrow at it's fucking, annoying Four Biden like this is this is what he wants bite in ones. Two! If you can just fight with Until Super Tuesday, that is great for him, he is, it elevates him above the rest of the field calls him to communicate Cadena, communicate the car help perception among a lot of voters, that he is the most electable Democrat and it avoids him having to work. By if he is if he is going to be most hated person that if he is now in the personal Democrats, eight most in trouble. That is much easier than battling a bunch of other people or their swords with Warren or Bernie Sanders
Campbell Harris who Democrats were they like, and so this is Trump funny with Biden. Is an income contribution to the Biden for President campaign so low, as what did you think of binds message? Shreds of that? That's the that's! If only the strategy that would bind folks her thinking. However, how effective do you think it played out. At least this week I mean as a message to ensure that Biden maintains the lead in the democratic primary was effective. It will he just sort of opened the kitchen sink against trumpet, said, as many things about drums so we all right, like all correct in the trunk, is an existential threat he's in our security threat. He's bad he's corrupt. All of that is correct in good messaging and not that different from what most stem crash say about him whether that is the best general election message against Tromp has a different
question and I don't know that he has fully captured why the best general action mess he's against Europe right now, he's sparring with a hologram of Trump for thee, thrills and likes of democratic voters. When he has to actually try to swayed either non voters becoming voters or indifference. It's or our Republicans to vote for him. That's a different question and I think that the different challenges he has to be much more specific and concise about I had a worrying flash back to Any number of Hillary Clinton speeches in twenty sixteen, where she would get up there and given entire speech about how Donald Trump is a racist or how Donald Trump as a threat to national security, and she would make most of the speech entirely about Donald Trump, and it would just hammer him
on every single issue under the sun in and they were usually well written speeches- and they got great applause and I will fully admit- I was one of the people that when should give that speech of Elect yeah, she got em great and then you know he'd say whatever he said about Hillary Clinton and the headlines would look in the end. The leads in all the newspapers would look just like they did this week. You know Hilary and Hilary Trump traded barbs, and they went back and forth in each other and Bob blah blah and there's just think about it, where I dont know that the Democrat who get sucked into this vortex going into a back and forth with Trump, actually succeeds in getting his or her message out beyond the message. The trump is bad, and you know there was a woman interviewed at the end of the New York Times views about this. Who said we all know we don't like Trump. I want to hear Biden talk more about his plans and look. This is a very. This is not an easy thing to fix. This is you know,
but the people who are in this campaign there are smart people, is not easy to figure out your way out of this because, like you said it does help by fighting it elevates Biden. To go one on one with Trump here, but at the same time, I think this moment requires very creative communication strategies and messaging to sort of figure out how to pick the lock on how to deal with Trump. And I dont know if, if I was in the Biden campaign and Tromp, was there They're calling me you know old feeble and all these other kind of names. You could say something like you know, of course he's talking about me because he does wanna talk about the people who are suffering from his trade worried? As am I talk about the people who lost their health insurance because he sabotage Obamacare? He doesn't my time, but the chill in that he ripped away from families. You know he doesn't care about the people in this country. He only cares. Selfie only cares about winning re election, so we can make more money. You know like there's, got to be a way to sort of respond to Trump without making it a fight between you
tromp. I think that's right. It's a hard challenge, because the incentives in the prime, push you entirely in the wrong direction. Yes like it is a huge benefit like Any one of these other candidates who are You know well behind Biden or some of the other in a second tier candidates could get trumpet Take them on Twitter would be huge bonus to them at allowed to raise more money. They would get some attention there would be coverage about them and so this idea of trying to pick a fight with trunk to help yourself in a democratic of primary. Even if it's just a very tactical thing, like General general some finality before the fund raising deadline in a couple of weeks is very appealing, and it's just different. Then the incentives you need to or differ, in the strategies and taxes, you need to defeat Trump in the actual general action. This is why Harrison Jellyband did her campaign kick off outside of Trump headquarters.
Which is a like Klett like it's an idea It seems clever on its face, but it's actually perfect metaphor for all the struggles, a democratic party. This had trying to get its message out in the Trump era, which is allowing him to define the forecastle conversation. The Democrats, I think I've been most successful. Beneath Biden are the ones who is spent the least amount of time talking about Trump or at least try to pick a fight with him and let you know that would be Elizabeth Warren and Mayor PETE. Really don't talk about him that often, or at least war is dark. A burly talks about M p talks a more and sort of an analysis of the political situation and talks about in the head talk about him in saying how, It's not gonna talk about amateurs of like his change, the general line, but right just like going Toto with tromp like those
a boxer or to adjust its not this is not a gladiator match is not the way to do it, but whereby new in the campaign right now. He does it yet have all these plans laid out this is a place to go and it the temptation of tramping him say at the same time was probably too much to pass it. I don't like it makes sense. Tactically, the question is: is this could have is a tactical, as is the strategy, and we all know that over the course of time yeah. I think the temptation is like you know, it's a is a sugar rush, like you said in the short term. Ah, you get you get coverage, you get tweets, maybe tromp attacks, you, you send out a fund raising email, you get some money, but in the long term, if you do too much, I think it sort of degrades your brand as a campaign and who you are what you stand for, and you become defined as opposition to Trump and not who you are and what you stand for. So I think I,
see it being useful in certain circumstances. But I think it's a very dangerous well to go to too many times. Cassie adequacy member thing about this, which is when someone is challenging a incumbent, thee, conventional wisdom of the strategy- is that you what I mean yet a referendum on the incumbent, as opposed to a choice between two candidates in it, the incumbent interests to make it a choice. Right, I I think in election against tromp that should neither be flipped on its head and that the democratic nobody wants it to be. A choice between two candidates, because we talk about tromp all the time, and I don't mean we pots America, but the entire country trot like all the trumps flies and a consequences of having his president are all there for the eye to see you're not going to reveal some piece of information to public. Does it have The question is: are you an alternative to that, particularly in a good economy, and it so
I think there is even more incentive to talk about yourself to tell your story to talk about your policies in your visions, in your character then, in any other reelection case campaign in recent history that yeah Tromp cited. The of the Ledger is very well stocked. The question is: are you gonna stock? Yours and look you don't? We started this? gas. By talking about this, I was advocating that you know democratic mandate should go out today and give a speech about how you know, democracies on the line in the sand and even if I were giving that speech, I would use Trump named sparingly. I wouldn't make it all about. Can you believe that crazy He said I may be seen these awful abolish. We impeached it's because by the way, Trump isn't the trump himself isn't the only threat to our democracy. He is there to mark our democracy, but like its everything from him to the Republican Party tat. You know all kinds of forces around the
like there are plenty of things to talk about that. Aren't just about Trump, where Europe, where you can make a pretty good case for yourself. And your platform on what you believe in where you don't have to just say his name. Fifty times you know so the other criticisms levelled at Joe Biden this week were from fellow Democrats after the vice premier. Reiterated his belief that, if trumpets defeated in TWAIN, twenty Republicans will be willing to compromise with Democrats quote with Trump gone you're going to begin to see things change, because these folks know better. They know this isn't what they're supposed to be doing Dan what's on here, why? Why does he think this Biden is in old school institutionalists? He believes something about politics and politicians, That was believed to be true for very long. Time may never have been true in issues of your politics. I found my disagree with there. Is this sense that
politics is about personal relationships that, if you can get along with a republic in advance like bills and her a bond with them, you can convince them to do something. For then, they are otherwise doing, and this is the genesis of all of the F Obama would only have more drinks with much Mcconnell or ah play golf with Vainer than he would have caused us more thanks. The problem with that, it is a deeply naive assessment, I think about what drives politics in this age on the margins. Personal relationships could matter. If you have a very specific- and I think this is true in Congress or candidate work members- We have a very specific project. That is the sort of non idea, I'll ideological and you can get help with that. But on the big issues that are the ones that we elect our presidents for on the economy healthcare civil rights,
politicians operate from their political incentives at eight. I do think this has become more true over time. I think it's become order over time, because their approval, party has become more radicalized and politics has become more polarized and republican politicians now don't just answer to their concerns. Whence they answer to a conservative media propaganda, apparatus that punishes them for any hint of compromise and its about their personalities and what they want it like. You said it is about structural, political incentives and keeping finance loss were now. The current brothers can spend a million dollars in your district right up until election day, if you violate why they consider to be what it means to be republican, and look I mean you know, Biden gives the example of that,
every act, and he said you know we got three republican votes for the recovery act by and was in a met with all those republican centres. He knew them. I think he you know probably persuaded of them. He you know he persuaded. I think he played a key role in persuading republican senator then Republican, Senator Ireland Spectre to switch parties and become a Democrat which he did at the beginning of a bomb. Is time it off and that was instrumental to like environs mind. I really do believe he thinks that politics are essentially about personal relationships. Is a creature of the Senate has been there a long time he's had relationships with republican senators that are good and so thinks he can bring them over, but I always remember Barack Obama telling the story of almost doing immigration reform with John Vainer in John Baynard. You pray remember this John Vainer met with Obama and said I wanted
Wanna, do immigration reform with you. I want to help passage through the house, let's, let's do it and they had a good relationship in golf all the time or have drinks all the time, but they good working relationship and John Vainer one to do this, and then you know Eric canter loose. Is a primary race in Virginia to a tea party guy and others in vain or gets cold feet and says you know what I'd still love to do. Immigration reform personally, but I have a carcass where most of my Republicans in the house, in districts that are ninety percent wider. More they don't have a lot of immigrants in their district. I don't have a lot of Latinos in their district, and so they don't give a shit about this, and if I put Immigration reform through the house than I'm not gonna, be speaker anymore. So, while I like you and I like the idea of immigration or form, I'm not going to do it and that's how it really works. It's not about personalities in personal relationships. It's about structural, political incentives, and I have a real fear that Joe Biden doesn't understand. I think,
is completely fair and I and I think this sympathetic- two ways like owed by said one is he's wrong. The heat He sincerely believes this and he has just wrong in that sense. Your belief is based on it. Fifty years in politics in the he over awaits the first forty years and underweight the last ten years or he is not naive, and thanks and probably make more progress than others, because he knows the Senate better than any one else running and better than Obama did and but is says this is a way to explain. How is gonna get things done, because explaining hired and get things done in this environment is very challenging and probably thinks that he it makes a marginal progress. It others couldn't and therefore would be at the job than everyone else running, but
his actual assessment, is probably more balanced than dead. His initial comments suggests and his longer explanation of this when he had asked about it by Rapporteur on the reply and sort of the difference between the two. So I don't really know you think that question. For the Democrats, how do you like? What is the right way to use this in the campaign? I think we're gonna see if people use the debate to jump on this, and I think they have to be careful to because the other thing that binds people pointed to is that the recent CNN Paul that you know they asked Democrats in the pool, ok- here's a bunch of different qualities, which is most important in deciding who you're gonna vote for in the primary sixty. Eight percent of Democrats said that a willingness to work with Republicans to get things done is either very or extremely important deciding how to vote for the only qualities they list. It is more important. Are the right experience to be president and has a good chance of being trump?
in below willingness to work with Republicans to get things done just below to think at sixty five percent is holds progressive positions and then just below that was represents the future the party so now pulling is pulling at a snapshot in time. It can change. You know over time. It also change depending on how you word it, but there is clearly this is the problem. Is you pull democrats on issues in positions, and I am look I notice this when I talk to those focus groups of a bomb, a Trump voters, Anna Bomb, a third party voters during the wilderness. You asked about issues and they are more rather than you'd. Imagine even people who voted for trumped. Some of them were saying. I want Medicare for all. I wanna huge infrastructure bill, great you're like a while these people are pretty progressive and then you say well I want someone who's going to work with Republicans, or do you want? Someone is going to start a stick to their principles and really fight for these issues and they all say. Oh, I really want someone who's going to work with the public and I'm really sick of the gridlock, I'm sick of the you know the
Oh endless war in Washington, I'm sick of everyone fighting. I just want people to get along and gets done, and so there's this gap between what people want in terms of what they want, what kind of policy they want to see coming out of Washington, which is actually more progressive than imagine and the style they want and politicians which is more conciliatory at least an enthusiasm both at least half the party right, there's, Probably another half of the party were probably more in this house, party that say like fuck that we one a compromise at them. We want a you know when elections and push the shit forwards, because we know how the system works. But what do you do about all those voters who sort of want compromise and want people to work with Republicans? This is really hard. It is in voter. Voters have a complicated emotions in like the same but as you said, they want the budget cut, but don't get any the programmes I like, and so I think the waded dude
Yes- and I think it is an important point that you make that I think we all of us as that for the party- Six of it either within the context of democratic primary by The rhetoric is more appealing as actively, this moment in time there The more war footing ask rhetoric of other Democrats, though If I was advising campaign, I would try to split the needle between the way if I was as in the way we try to throw the needle there would be to talk about in very realistic, honest terms about who the current Republicans in Congress are most notably Mitch Mcconnell the things they are doing to enrich themselves it's their donors to undermine democracy law. Same time. Trying to unify the country were at large suggests that, put aside the for this right, most rapid parts of the trunk base that the vast majority of
people in this country white a present who at least try to unify them who will try to focus who will not spend all of their time trying to divide us, Visa, twitter and outrageous statements who will try? heal the wounds of the Trump era, and so you, an appeal to broader national unity while Bobby Release about the challenges of it. While still being honest about who the Republicans in Washington are. And the sorts of steps you will to ensure that Mitch Mcconnell cannot hold your president, see hostage by. That is specifically mean working to eliminate the filibuster. That's I wouldn't yeah and look. I would also mean Elizabeth worn, I think in her first event in Iowa on the campaign talked about this. You know by partisan piece of legislation that helped funding for hearing AIDS, that she worked with honour Republican and should act, but all the other Republican,
Republican. She cosponsor legislation with Bernie Sanders has, you know, has a practical street from being, send it for a long time and has talked in the past about the different Republicans he's worked with to co sponsor bills, I think there is a way to say yet, like I'm happy to work with Republicans when Republicans want cooperate on. You know Is that really matter to people and when they are willing to work with us than great like I'm, I'm I'm I'm willing to extend a hand to the Republican Party, but I'm not gonna be foolish about it. I'm not gonna nor what's been happening in in the Senate and the House and the presidency will report control it for the last couple decades. I'm gonna look at it with to be realistic about it and figure out. You look I'll work with them when its makes sense to with them and I'll work around them when they refuse to work with us and I'll do both. You know I've I've I think there's a way the sort of split the baby on this one. You could be new,
is still unacceptable way of talking about politics in America. Well, that brings us to I mean, I will say the other campaigns are being met. Smarter about how they handle Biden, then a lot of twitter warriors out there. So in Iowa this week. Vice president said quote: I promise you. If you like, president you're, going to see the single most important thing: the changes in America we're going to cure cancer in response. He was ridiculed by Twitter people on the right and the left. Some of them made fun of improving a secret care for cancer, like how is this different from saying. If I'm elected president, I'm gonna pass Medicare for all or from or ram elected president to give every child a world class education? Is there not the most standard formulation for any campaign promise? Yes, it is people looking for cudgel, beat Bide nerve
and it yes, it does seem unlikely that we will cure cancer and four hundred and twenty eight years, but it is no less unlikely than passing Medicare for all the green new deal or even the naming of a fucking post office. If you are not for getting rid of the filibuster, so I think that, if any other candidate in the fields, if may repeat, had said that or Elizabeth Worn are commonly Harris. No one would have attack them, but because Biden is the front runner and has become an avatar fer, a lot of things that a lot of very vocal people onto I think, are wrong with a democratic party there being met with it. Yet I mean I saw some of the arguments on this and some people making the case that for people who have kids devil cancer. In their family.
False promises or overly optimistic problems there. However, you want to you, you know you want to describe the giving of false hope is, you know, is wrong in an email and can be painful. I very sympathetic to that, but I just we have to put this in context and perspective, along with lots of other presidents who over politicians who have made very bold promises, some of which have not come true, and it also has to be put in the context of the person all told at Cannes We had very recently on President Vice President Biden. Family will look, they lived in Alsace, we put the context of in the last state of the union and twenty sixteen Barack Obama said: let's be the country that cares cancer. I'm gonna put on my vice president, Joe Biden in charge Of a cancer moon shot initiative and we think that if we haven't
federal funding that we can actually and look, though I mean even scientists and researchers about this. It's not like, there's, probably gonna, be a single cure for all cancers. Cancers is a disease. Where there's you know many different kinds of cancer, but scientists and researchers do think they're getting closer to having an effective What's an effective cure for cancer, or at least helping people over there or reducing its incidents or whatever it may be? And then and when he left office started the by Cancer Initiative and he has been a lot of time I'm working on this issue. Now, maybe it would smart, have actually do a separate event on it and said: ok, we're gonna cure answer in eight years. I think we can do it. Here's the scientists and researchers who think we can do it. Here's what we need to do it and like lay at all out, but, like you said, I mean I I worry about some folks who were against right now having some kind of binding.
Arrangement syndrome, where you decide that every word he says is somehow further evidence that he's a bad candidate and increasingly a bad person, and I don't you think, that's that's wrong. I actually think it's a pretty dumb way of persuading people to vote against him. It's your plan, because you had an opportunity now to try to do Yeah we there is now a persuasion. No it's not it's not that it's like you know it looked to your favorite campaigns, will clear the Canada. You don't see Bernie Sanders going after by like this, you don't see Elizabeth Warren going up. By my best because they're fucking smart and they know that a lot of people in the Democratic Party, whether they were Joe Biden, be prisoner, have a favourable view of Joe Biden and, if you're, going to decide that every time Joe Biden says something every time he has again every time he says makes some sound. You know a little off which happens a lot
you're going to decide that that's the end of the world and you're going to fucking turn it up to one hundred and eleven. Every time Joe Biden says something that you don't agree with. People are going to take you seriously. You know it's just like it's just fucking, smart politics, if, if that's all you're willing to listen to as opposed to just being the right thing to do. Also, I don't know twitter is awful. It just you make this point about a moon shot for cancer, which bind was in charge of that with the mood shot means it is picking and audacious goal at an unrealistic timeline and then trying to marshal the entire country we achieve that goal That is exactly what Kennedy did with the moon like that's what it means. It is not setting a super, realistic goal. It is just things very frustrating an anomaly worked up about something so incredibly fucking stupid, while the president many crimes, Alien Conway's committing crimes, and we are arguing about a bunch of people on twitter when even argue
yelling into a fucking board about a bunch of people on twitter yelling at Joe Biden, into a different void I honestly just brought it up because, because it is, it didn't get like much coverage. It was a fucking entirely. You know twitter based fight about this, but I do see this trend among well who dont want Biden to be the nominee where they're, not just debating hammer than I just pointing out what he says. It's wrong, but they're, trying to disqualify him as much as possible, and I think a that's counterproductive and be you know if Joe Biden ends up. Is that then he's our nominee and I'm going to be out there fucking cheering for him and trying to get him elected and that's true. If Bernie Sanders is the nominee, it was before ins and how many, if any of them were the nominee, I think we have to remember that a sober, mere PETE delivered a major foreign policy speech from India and a university in blooming tin in his remarks, but a genuine through a list of specific. Parties, including ray
during the around nuclear agreement in rejoining the Paris climate accord, ending the war in Afghanistan in withholding aid from Israel if it annexes settlements in the West Bank. He also said quote for the better part of my lifetime. It has been difficult to identify a consistent foreign policy in the Democratic Party. Democrats can no more turn cluck turn the clock back to the nineteen nineties than Republicans returning to the nineteen fifties and we should try to tell me and Ben Gunn into the policy details on parts of the world this week and it's definitely worthless and they do a great job. But I wanna talk quickly with you about the politics around the speech. Why do you think PETE delivered this speech and do you think it was effective? What was he tried? Do her, I'm pretty here curious to hear what you say about this, because I did not. Put this on the outline in any respect that you wanted to add it to the alike as you want to touch on the politics of it. So I'll, let you first sure I mean so. Here's have you. I thought it was a well written, thoughtful speech that showed,
his fluency in almost every major foreign policy topic, so in that sense it was successful in showing people that he is serious and knowledgeable and understands the world? And he needs to show that, because he is thirty seven year old Mare wants me in charge of our national security, and I think when you read that speech, you think ok, he had a lot of really smart foreign policy advisers that helped him work on this speech. He knows what the fuck is talking about on a lot of these issues so great, so I- and in that sense I think it did him are up. Did him a lot of favors and I found myself agreeing with just about everything he's in the speech, but despite the fact that he said we can turn back the clock or the Democrats haven't had a consistent foreign policy, which I think you can certainly make an argument for it was.
Recently a speech that Obama could have given at the end of his term and mostly did in the end, that's fine like a totally fine to do that, but you know PETE's doing this thing where he's saying you know part of his appeal is that he is new and different right. He says we, I think at this moment in time. We need something totally different and I think what he has to decide is is what's different him as a person and his story, or does he have different ideas? If he's going to say you're going to say that the democratic He hasn't, had a consistent foreign policy over the last couple decades. Will, then, what do you mean by that? And how is your foreign policy different than what the democratic foreign policy was? If you saying we can't go back, then what is your new idea and, like I understand this problem, be
as we dealt with this problem in two thousand and seven and two thousand and eight, and that campaign with Brok obama- and you know the Hilary people would say. Oh you know Brok Obama just this new shiny object, these talkin about his biography. Any only relies on a story and there's no real substance. Aaron there's no real difference, and I think that was that could have been a real danger for our campaign, but we sat there and thought okay. What is it that really makes Obama different? What is he? What is he saying about the Democratic Party and He ended up with this argument that I got the Iraq war right when the Democratic Party decided that they needed to rush to war because they were afraid of looking weak and they felt like they needed to be too and so they went along with the Iraq war, and it was a huge mistake and I don't think we should be afraid of what the Republican say about
and that's why, when there was a question in debate about, would you talk to leaders you dont like and negotiate with leaders you dont like in Hilary said no and the other candidates had no Obama said. Of course I would talk to leaders. We don't like this is accept. This is part of what's wrong with the democratic parties there, too afraid of getting attack by Republicans to do what they know is right, so he made a real coherent case and he had some proof points there and I think what PETE needs to do what Marquis needs to do if he wants to be the nominee he wants to really flesh out the case that he is new and different is actually to put some substance.
Hi that argument that he is new and different and I think, like Elizabeth Warren is actually the carriage was put out a ton of new ideas that are different than ideas that you just here from the Democratic Party all the time. She is actually done it without critiquing the Democratic Party, but I think if you're gonna make that critique, then your foreign policy or your healthcare policy or whatever it may be, has to truly be different. That's interesting, so I have some thoughts on this I like, like you, said speech well written well, delivered thoughtful, Finally, these campaign foreign policy speeches are more vision and policy right, itches, that that is how there is every specific policy in there and peat is as much specific policy is Obama. Had in his await speeches, and I Bernie Sanders loses Warren. In their speeches earlier this year
largely they are about vision and thereby standing and fry at a protein in a suit in front of a bunch of flags and looking like you can play the part yet right like that, you can be. The commander in Chief Obama, had to pass that test As you also point out, Obama had a huge advantage, which was on these. Signature, foreign policy, question of his generation. He got it right, and every one he was running against, got it wrong exception, Dennis Percentage and Microsoft. My apologies to there and but what I find interesting, millipedes pot farmhouse which is indicative of a larger part of his campaign, is that. Like Obama ran against Clinton ISM as a form of democratic politics, resort of the pole testing School forms caution that defined a lot of Bill Clinton's policies.
May, I repeat, is also running against the Clinton version of the Democratic Party like when he says we take Back to the nineties, No one is arguing for that that is not an our view. There is no one saying that we should return to the Democratic Party or the America of the ideas that isn't it say it's a straw. Man argument: it's a very effective one because it has helped him rise at the polls bit. He he dies, Rhine in argue. Like his view of politics is Acknowledging of trumpets President by it, he's very centred? His critique of the Democrats is very centered in a World, in which Russia Obama was never president right. It's very. It is interesting and like there is a very legitimate critic, some of it We would obviously Vienna disagree with some indiscriminate Belgium, a critique of the devil party under Brok, Obama, Brok, Obama's of Obama is an issue
Bernie Sanders have ran on that. I want you, doesn't sixteen and some in this election there has been, implicit, if not explicitly in some of those with warrants policies. But peat has not done that here. Is he has run into a critique of the Democrats is just not a democratic party that I recognise one. The second thing is, it is to that, great credit of people to judge As a politician and this campaign that the thirty seven year old mayor of South band who is now firmly askance and the top tier of a democratic primary here and third or fourth place like session it for way tie for second in most poles there, the thirty seven Euro mayor of South Band is giving us first policy speech in the middle of gin. There is like that is a fact that he was able to pull. That trick off is incredible. The fact that in this election. He is able to get to June, give a farm
if these were, he was climate change, as did is the grid. Threat facing the country and have a specific climate change plan worthy, full extent of what he is laid down. The changes he generally agrees with the principles, but not the specifics of the green new deal and to be completely fair in a normal world. This is still pretty early for Canada have laid out most their agenda. Elizabeth worn by virtue of her aggressiveness and policy, has put forward the policy primary, but now the question for peat is, he is going to have to lay out a series of speeches he's going to have to get specific, about which Medicare for all plan he supports. What climb what is this climate change? My where's he different than as with Warren or Joe Biden or better work, whereas he different, criminal justice reform than Comma Harris vetoed like the the next step for his kindness. He is now the when you are in
no second or third place in the polls. When you you are going to probably raise more money than any Democrat running this cycle if he gets LE. If He gets less than thirty million dollars this this quarter. I will be shocked, yeah me too. What you do that that now all the day being a incredible spokesperson with a great story is not enough, and we faces with Obama. We had a great few first few months, crews, we outraged Hilary. We were there story in the business and then our summer sucked- and we got raked over calls because now the sun, the questions come and you have to, are picking aside and add putting yourself in a while that one of two sides on contentious interpreting debates and how PETE navigate that will be very, very interesting to say, yeah and in
its indicator. That speech. Do you like? I, I thought the way he framed. A lot of foreign policy issues was very effective and I found it compelling and timing been mentioned this the way you talked about terrorism, you know that great too. I just there there is. I don't if there's anything in his speech, that many of the other candidates in the field would disagree with or had an already said before like when he said that you know what the presidential have as much power to conduct war in the Congress should be. You know, like other kinds of come out, for that position is well and so yeah I've just I'm interested to see what differentiates him in a more
substantive way from the rest of the field? Another candidate who delivered a big speech this week was Bernie Sanders, who argue that the United States must choose the path known as democratic socialism was the quote from the speech. He said that quote. Economic rights are human rights and that the unfinished business of the Democratic Party is to quote take up the unfinished business of the new deal. Sanders proposed a twenty first century economic bill of rights that would include the right to a decent job that pays a living wage quality, healthcare, complete education, affordable housing, a security. In a clean environment damage they get a speech. I really wish I could have watched the speech in a vacuum were. I did not know where no one had told me what the court unquote purpose of the speech was, because I thought this speech in and of itself was a prick. Valiant effort to take Bernie Sanders is agreed of we populist.
Progressive proposes and put them within the mainstream tradition of a democratic party dating back to Franklin rose I thought I was an interesting way of pointing out that reply kids are gonna. Call him socialist. They called Obama Socialist. They called Franklin. Roosevelt show us that whoever the democratic nominees they're gonna be called socialist. What You have no idea was why they told the press that this was a defence of democratic socialism, that it would be explain why he columns off a democratic social, explain what democratic socialism is. It did as far as I can tell it did none of those things and so took what would be a very good speech where he proposes an economical rights, which is a great fucking policy. Campaign policy idea. It's a great way to lay out your agenda to frame it in a way that people can understand it took to of that and but branded in this thing- that it didn't do an idle
think this was if a communications failure on behalf of the campaign that I think this was ed. It wasn't helpful in it may have been hurtful. It was one of the best defenses of new deal liberalism that any candidate has ever given, That's what it was. It was a defensive in the new deal and new deal liberalism. It was not a defence of democratic socialism, you know, like I mean he taught eat it in in addition to that, he will this whole roof about how you know whether it was the children's health parents, program or social Security or Medicare or the Recovery ACT things the Democrats have put forward, have always been attacked, a socialist and it's like, yeah. That's right! That's the problem, but actually there not socialist they're just firmly within the tradition of new deal liberalism in the Democratic Party, so
why are you calling yourself a democratic socialist? That's what we don't understand, because if you took out the couple times he said the phrase democratic socialists in that speech, brow Obama, could have delivered that exact speech and has involved in various forms. And so have many other progressive democrats. Many other progressive Democrats have said that I should think Bernie put it together in that speech, was very effective and compelling. I mean look it's They were talking about the economic bill of rights, the second bill of rights in its favour. It's a famous sdr quote when he said we one bill of rights, and now we need the unfinished, but we have to finish the infinite finnish business of the new deal. We need to have an economic bill of rights. Second, bill of rights. I titled the episode about economics in the wilderness, the second bill of rights and it was a defence of why the Democratic Party needs to be talking more about economic rights and I believe, that we do, and I found myself agreeing with just about everything. Bernie second had speech, except it was an. It did not explain why he calls himself a democratic, socialist
does not explain why Bernie Sanders and from America ten Vermont, who actually advocated the nationalization of certain industries like banking and other industries in this country, actually was like a real, so most wood and why he sort of moved for the years two not advocating for the nationalization of most industries in this country, but basically now he's just a progressive Democrat and for some reason, external markets. Himself that me he's a victim of its own. Success like there was a warlike. Let's go back to two thousand. Sixteen He could have given a version of the speech in two thousand. Sixteen, where he said I am a democratic socialist because I believe in go pair government healthcare. Able leave. That college should be free, I, that social security should be expanded and the debt did those not the positions of the Democratic Party. The problem for Bernie is: he won the debate.
Those are now the positions of most of the people. The democratic party in what is a he'll challenge for him is how is. The poles are pretty clear that there is wide yet this is em in the electorate. More generally and and specifically the Democratic Party about voting for it, what socialist and so you have Elizabeth worn, who has a very similar, boldly progressive, populist, Anti Wall Street Anti Corporation, ah agenda, who, holes herself, a capitalist and in your body scanners, the same agenda who calls himself a democratic socialist, and I still I have not heard him and love to hear an explanation for why one is a Kapital someone's democratic socialist, like what is the fundamental difference, and I remember this from love. It's interview with Yo see right after you gonna bring that our primary and he asked her
You said you, you believe Ed Medicare for all free college at and you call yourself a democratic socialist. I believe in those things was warmly those things and calls for. I call it believers, those like what's the difference, and that still- question, I think, has become a very hard won for that wing of the party to answer in a world in which the debate this not Medicare single payer or nothing, it is the. Transition time for that single pair. It is the grand like it. It was Bernie against Biden or Bernie gets taken loop or whoever else. That would be that's a real debate, but when she would bring in all the other. Nor can it supports some version amid a cure for all, including our co sponsors of his own plan. I think that's gets more challenging year and I think it's a result of you know some of the and it's interesting sort of reading lefty twitter because there's a whole bunch of lefties. You know work there sat other places who were like. I don't understand why he did that either
stay where you leaned into darted the democratic socialist label in and try to set as a whole speech, but democratic socialism when he simply defended empty the new deal and liberalism, and partly, I think, it's because there's probably some people the campaign- and there certainly a lot of people, you know lefty twitter people, lefty journalists, lefty pundits, who seem to want the fight with the Democratic Port Party more than they want to win the fight and what she said like they have. What they mean the party to the left and part of politics is saying. Ok, now that you agree with me come join my movement and come. You know you believe in my policies now. Well, let's let us join together and sort of build a movement in some of these people. They don't want you as part of their movement because they just want a yell at you on Twitter. That's what makes them feel good. There's a lot of centres, democratic heads. The exploding over the speech? No, I agree with. I found myself
with almost every word. What I couldn't understand is why, like you said they build, it is a speech about him, defending democratic socialism and his labor. Democratic socialism when it didn't really do that. That's the problem I understand like having you know. We were thought to be. As I understand the world, were you sitting around the table and you you probably don't focus groups or whatever, and you understand that Democrat that these Bernie decision, two columns off a Democrat. Socialist is poses some political problems either it's a proxy for like debility there's, some number of they picked the voters. He needs to expand to grow his base with half scepticism about that is either confusing or they have a natural or version to it. So you have to deal with it and sue. The problem, is so I understand like why you would give a speech to date to address a campaign weakness to try to reform it. I just don't think that's what they did:
rang. Were it like the better things it is also interesting. I saw this in one of those twitter threats, Bernie Sanders has two he's there to labels that he's chosen firms democratic Socialist in independent, independent. One is much more. Valuable, healing and drove his erratic was a huge driver of a lot of success in two thousand sixteen, and we in the he chose the other wine Belize part of the more problematic one to do it. I don't know that I have great solution, leg, to being perfectly perfectly fair them- no. No, that I have a great solution for how Bernie Sanders answers the question of why he calls himself a democratic socialist while he's running for them. Eric and a large portion of the people running agree with his vision for the country and that's not an easy thing to answer. I just think that this speech did not
push that and they raise the expectations that it would and if you just been giving a speech about an economic bill of rights and then this speech, what about a home run? But because the pretty framed in a certain way with the press than the coverage was not indicative of. Why the speech was in them and when that happens is always a problem here. Here's the way you do it. You start to redressing I've had many labels in life that I've got myself Otomis over democratic socialism, call myself and independent here's what I actually believe about the economy. Here's what I believe about our country and then lays out the things it if you believe that to where they are a democratic whether a democratic socialist, whether an independent, whether Republican, then you should join my campaign and you should vote for me and you should be part of this movement. That's that's! We should and then make it less write the label and more about the fucking philosophy it in in the policies you know just like they're hung up on the label, which is just so silly to me. Okay, when we come back we'll have Anna Marie Cox,
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energy for the night; she is a member of the United States has currently representing Minnesota's fifth congressional district, your congresswoman and mine. We give a warm welcome to you so much It is wrangle you backstage for some constituent service stuff that I've got what we can do it now, I'm tempted your hard to get a meeting with you very popular. We have to fix them
well. No, we want you to see pop ok, so earlier this week will start with news. Earlier this week the house passed a dream and promise act which, if made law, would give two points. Five million unauthorized immigrants, a path to citizenship,. That which is awesome but of course, the key phrase there is, if made law. So I guess The question is: what is, if you like, to be the unstoppable force crashing into Mitch. Mc Connell's immovable object. Why What is the purpose of doing these amazing piece of legislation knowing that they're not gonna get somewhere? This there's so much purpose behind. It really so Tuesday with eight, which is the the from other. And I had to I had this very
conflicting choice. I had to make whether to stay here to celebrate with my children and family, which I have not one single reads, since they were born in celebrating with them or go and be part of a very historic vote too really assure that the dreams and the promises of this country are still alive. For so many people and so I prayed with the kids told my but one that I was gonna, go to deceive, go vote and she said what's more important than us, she's feisty when she says that she be good at like corporate p yeah, I think so. She's got she's got a future somewhere and- and I it I passed for a second because it, and that there was something important but her, but it was so true that there were others
your olds, now also as important that need to have their parents to have the opportunity to stay with them and continue to celebrate with them and so so when I think about the can you that I have that are. With the status of d d or tp ass. I think about- kind of shadow dreams that they have in knowing that they may not get to celebrate every single holiday with their kids, because they may. Get the port it, and so we get to be purpose, in saying you matter. We see you this year, country or our neighbour we're going to do everything that we can to put a piece of legislation together that the dates your existence in this country
and so, and so I also know right that that that bill happened because they organized- and I always say you get which organised or so they got the opportunity to get that will pass- and I know with their help we will make sure that, Mcconnell gets to give that bill a here or not have a seat again in the Senate, and I know that this this particular graveyard the legislative graveyard that the Senate has become crypt keeper Mcconnell. Yes, is is one that is not going to exist for another two years, so I'm really excited for the opportunity for us to organise for the America that we deserve in one where we are protecting and guaranteeing prosperity for all of us
you have spoken before, create only about the perspective you bring to Congress as an emigrant refugee. I confess I'm curious about the perspective you bring to Congress as a man. So do you? Are you able to go in DC winners without a coat? no like do you bring hot days, to the to the car grace to share. Do you do pot lux? So I was, Second runner up for the heart dish: com, so. My minister skills mad hot dish skills. What was it was mogadishu- this
a mortgage. The way I get area, hot Mogadishu. It was just mixed with tee retards and we did it get best get. There's you loved, as we did in place number one, because they said it was to flee from fell, and I see that the foreign ministers who makes your Euro spacey meat but Amy hello Bashar was asked ones. How come clap, for she was ass ones. How come she shows up to all of these press conferences in the middle of the winter and without a jacket
And she said, because I'm Minnesota and. And so, even though the sub Saharan heat in me hasn't totally transcend it to the Minnesota in me have been known to walk around in DC without a jacket. But I felt a little shameful in trying to bring a cold gotta represent yeah you're, part of particularly diverse and young class representatives, and I am sure that you are learning a lot from the many women that preceded you. I am curious, though, if you think there's anything you have to teach them Monceux with age comes with them.
Short, let's just posit. Ok like right, fine, that's great What don't Dana date nor urgency, and a lot of them don't know hunger, of them, don't know fear and most of them Have not known courage really lately so so a lot of us are like many Americans were coming in mere with lots of hunger and urgency and courage to really change the trajectory of our current
is currently on. There are so many issues I feel again. People are more plugged in on than than are me I'm old, but everything here too, Let's not that's just so. I was able to observe a primary of course, since I my constituent- and you did take care during the primary to plan that you were the only candidate that had student debt, which is one of those things that may be the older people in Congress have either not known or forgotten. I mean I part of the forty five million people who are shackled with the burdens of students that.
And and what that really is it stops. I think Parity all of us. It stops us from having the opportunity to purchase a home stops us from the opportunity to starting that business. It stops us from the opportunity of even economically participating in small ways within our communities starting a family- and I was fortunate enough to do that- maybe not so wise enough to do that, we you look at it.
But it took a flight compounds, radio to win win you when you are apparent with students dead, there's, there's compounding of that struggle that economic struggle. I should point out actually must be an umbrella realise at most students in college Day, like there are many many it's the atypical student is now the typical stood a student with during a married students is doing that a community college. So that's your speaking to a huge portion of people going to school. Exactly exactly and I think it is really important for us to recognise that, We have to provide relief for this. Forty five million. And that relief must come in the form of a bail out for them and so what we are proposing is complete debt cancellation. Of their fat, federal and private student loans, complete cancellation and nor proponents of of this would say
you know you you're, cancelling outer student debt for people who can afford it to pay it back their debt We have no right, like the the Children of Trump are not going to benefit from this, because people like that don't have student and and so we I that most people who have food that are low income. They are for Why is struggling to make sure that they get that prosperity. That was in to them, because education was the gateway to that and right now, that's not happening for them and so the one point five trillion dollars that it would cost for us. The cancel out would pay for itself, within ten years, which is very
we different, then the tax cut that we just gave to corporation, and so if we are saying we really care about making sure that were growing the middle class and more investing in people the way to go, I think you were Congresswoman Omar for joining us in Minneapolis, and we will see you next week by everyone.
Transcript generated on 2020-03-30.