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“Plans vs. Pipe Dreams.” (Debate recap special!)


Jon, Jon, Tommy, and Dan break down all the highs and lows of the fourth and largest Democratic debate hosted by CNN and The New York Times in Westerville, Ohio.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Skip the hay and go to zipper Gerda dot com, five cricket, zippered router, is the smartest way to ire I welcome the pod, save America, I'm John forever, I'm John of an intermediate or calmly and driver we're all here for the big post debate spectacular, before you dive in we do
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Head had devoted America COM, where you can do to our fuck gerrymandering fund and find out volunteer opportunities in these states. Some that you can do right from the comfort of your home, Let's get to the news last night in Westerwelle Ohio, the Democrats held their fourth and largest primary debate in history featuring twelve candidates, Joe Biden, as with Warren Bernie Sanders people to judge Kamel Harris, Andrea Inquiry, Booker, better Orourke, Amy Club, which are wholly and Castro Chelsea Gabert and Tom's Dire shared the stage for three hours. Three hours. That's normal right. Usually you get more people in debates, as you ve gone, and from a longer by right. Right before I or there'll be a seven hour debate with all fifty Canada. I will say that even now there are lots of people on the stage and it was three how long it actually only felt like three hours felling. Five me exactly three hours. One hour, em so generous, tweet.
Well, that's an hour. We go to left and I merely started crying. It was a long It was, it was hosted by CNN and the New York Times. The moderators were Anderson Cooper, an errand Burnett of CNN and Mark Lazy, the New York Times so guises. With the first debate Elizabeth Warren was, if not a front runner co front runner. And she was it out with me it's a tie. It's like a tie and the average, whereas we wait. I prefer to AIDS. I've reverse between urban and she was challenged more than she ever has been before by most every candidate on stage, so we is a lot of evil is a lot of people, so let's listen to her first exchange with people to judge and Amy Clover Char over you guessed it Mary Therefore, all your signature senator is to have a plan for everything, except this no plan has been laid out to explain how will multiply trillion dollar hole in this
better care for all planned that senator worn is putting forward is supposed to get filled in and a part of that is we thank you, Senator TOP Americans, from going bankrupt over health senator clover shower. Do you want to respond they do, and I appreciate Elizabeth Work, but again of the difference between plan and a pipe dream is something that you and actually get done, and we can get this public she's done and we can take on the pharmaceutical companies and bring down the prices. But we're really bothers me about this discussion, which we had so many times is that we don't talk, but the things it I'm hearing about from Geller Americans. Ok. First question: why do we keep having these exchanges everything they are. Will we be having them forever about Medicare? For what are they question? Let them think there's two parts of it. One is.
I guess it: here's here's the question I had when I watch that exchange. So we ve had this conversation four times now in four different debates almost verbatim, and there are two parts to it. The one part is the public option: candidates trying to find a way to criticise Medicare for all without seeming like wet blankets, and I think, each time they been trying different tax at this,
the second piece of it is that Elizabeth Warren is refusing to say something very specific and everyone on that stage knows what's going on. She does not want to say on camera that, according to the burning plan, taxes will rise for the middle class because she is making a bigger argument that, on the whole cost for the middle class will go down and she does not want to create video of herself saying that will be used as a cudgel in the general to misleadingly tell middle class voters that she's gonna to cost them more money, because their broader point is correct under Medicare for all. Even if your taxes go up overall, your health care costs will go down further than your taxes will go up, because the costs will be shifted will be progressive and shifted up towards the wealthy, and we could have been trapped in a loop on this. But the difference with this debate is this time. I think we had the most sophisticated debaters coming at her on this, which will
which are enclosure, and may I repeat, to people that if they were a high school debating team would be fucking like ferocious yeah. They would be. I mean they may be, are one that they see that these guys smell. Blood in the water here politically fur warrant. Right I mean that their there's too parts of this one there's the cost of Medicare for all, which is an attack on both Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warrant, but the critique worn is broader and becomes about her credibility. I've just reading a gap Buying did today Wednesday morning, where he is doubling tripling down on this unjust, hammering her it up, stop in Columbus Ohio. So that's why peat is focused on the cost of Medicare for all and the lack of space Felicity Michael Bennett is running, I think, like a million dollars worth of ads against Medicare for all,
Iowa and I think it becomes even more challenging for Warren in everybody. Onstage knows this because the contrast of her answer with burning speedily ghip can raise taxes as part of the plan. It is pretty stark when you're like toe tapping for and fifteen thirty minutes or your her entire CNN interview after the debate was about this too, but she wishes that a burning ever said that about that in the end, if you ll notice bracer that once before a couple debates ago and has not set its damage ultimate irony. This is those words, go dance around us in every debate till the end of time and then, if she's, a nominee, the Trump campaign will just created deep fake of her saying at run, an add on Facebook, it'll get ten million views and Mozart
Where views are taken elsewhere and in fact, do I get sustainable Dan for her to continue this with this answer for the whole primer? Now I don't want this animal because it's not about the financing of Medicare from that's not that's. That's no part of the actual temptation. People are harping on this because it is the first crack in the armor that she has offered. She has put so much and so successfully put so much stock in to this persona. As a incredibly courageous policy, oriented detail or interpersonal plan for everything, and here we have won her biggest most expensive plan, a huge hole and she's dancing around it. Leslie, and it makes me look like a typical politician. The fact that she is seem different than other politicians has been our strength and so they're gonna keep each people gotta keep hammering this honour and the other point about this conversation. Both there
question the larger Medicare for our conversation as it relations with Warren. Is it's a proxy for elect ability? They want to say that, although that Medicare for all is bad policy clay, and it makes her in your proof may makes are more likely to lose if she's a nominee in their proving that cause. She can't answer a fundamental question that everyone knows will be asked every single day by every reporter in the general action. Let me ask: what would you as do if you were on the warring campaign next time, he faced this question, I mean I or eventually to get out of this box. Writing you were saying it's not sustainable. It did seem like that. This strategy on both sides with pretty apparent last night, we talked with a strategy on the public option side on the
four per Bernie and Elizabeth Warren. The strategy was every time the public option, folks sort of got into the details about cost and sort of accusing keys, warn of not being honest about, but the taxes they would sort of bring it back to the system is fundamentally broken in
the private insurance companies, are awful. They make money by denying care, there's a lot of people in this country who can afford health insurance of eight. They brought back to the problem with the current private health insurance, but that's it, but that's about all that that's where they went. They didn't go anywhere else. What, where would you go? I think there would be benefit and Elizabeth warned me honest about this. She hesitantly she is exactly right to be very clear. She is right about costs and it is dumb and sort of operating in a Reagan. Ask political frame to think about us and in the context of taxes, only and not overall costs for families, but is also a fact that every policy as winners and losers, and there will be some people whose taxes go up more than their healthcare costs, come down, and I think she would because she has been so honest about Oliver other policies. Having an answer that took on more aggressively
the problem with the framing of that question, but then gave a little ground or on taxes will go for some people almost entirely the wealthy, but like that, will I think that there is at its think when she says that the same answer over and over again in every debate for the rest of time, that is not going to wear well, and so there needs to be some sort of pivotal gives a little ground here, but I do think too the original question about like. Why do we keep going over this time time again, it's a proxy for like debility, but also we ve all been in primaries before it is difficult to find policy differences in primary. When you do find on a policy difference, it becomes the opportunity to differentiate yourself from the other candidates We spent a month in two thousand and eight and the primary arguing with Hillary Clinton over gas tax. I would add, remember you guys know it weird yeah. I guess it loses innate feeling there it was. We made it a huge deal. We made the in
visual mandate in the healthcare plan an enormous deal that is primarily a Mitchell Inveiglement Adverse automatic and Roma and so that that like this, is why this kept these keeps getting brought up, because there aren't a ton of other big issues going forward where the candidates have big disagreements. I do think the into your point about where Warren go from here. I think if she is more granular about taxes in costs and in specific about the plan, it will also give her the opportunity to point to the other candidates and say you have trade offs in your plan as well as I dont know that either Bernie Sanders our lives with warrants have been sharp enough on the deficiencies in the other trade offs in the other plans, because yeah, there's tradeoffs Medicare for all their cause or taxes are also of does also trade off.
In peace plan, inimical, avatars plan and guidance plan right, like they don't cut costs in the healthcare system as much as the cinders and worn plant, their plans are more expensive. Other people are gonna pay more out of pocket in their plans than they are in more like they're. Just you know, they're leaving us this was, I think, the most sophisticated debate we ve had, but it still not really getting out the pros and cons of a public option versus Medicare for all and why They actually do believe it is a better system in which people transition from private insurance. One thing I was thing about when I was watching the music enclosure and people to judge are really fucking. Smart and PETE, specifically, I think, has thought a lot about. How can I be on the attack without giving ground on policy? How can I go after Lisbon
Warren without seeming like I'm, throwing a wet blanket on boldness it something when you try to do with with better later on, and it is that this is the one place where they. The script, is kind of flip for the past three debates, what we ve seen as I think the boulder more left candidates, attacking kind of the the the the moderation and lack of kind of and the new wants of some of the other candidates on the stage, and that is the one place where that sir. Whose flipped, where what we are actually doing, is there saying you're being political year, the political one? Now I'm the honest, bold change maker, your political, I think that's by. Ultimately it such a good attack and, what's on sustainable, they were shut up. The other reason we go around the bend on this is the debates in the car. When the campaigns are always focused on legislation, you pass, which is really a dunwoodie thing by the presence, and we know having work there. That you can do so much more executive authority, not everything has been done our foreign policy, which is only basing on their own, but
should be more of a conversation, but not about the bills that no candidate is likely to pass in the form in which they propose and more about how they would go about fix in healthcare system on there and how they were pair Obamacare Hulu. To these job, which would be a very refreshing question and debate attendant phone. You know like have asking them all. Let's say that Mitch Mcconnell holds the Senate and there's a republican Senate. What you gonna do to improve healthcare system be very interesting. I didn't back to your point, love it. There's a difference between clover, jar and peat, which I want to raise here. Crowbar has been moderate from the start. This has been her Her whole theory of the case- maybe she hasn't made the argument sharply as she has it. She did last night in the fourth debate, which are actually very sharp. Pete P back in February was arguing that Medicare for all is the compromise position and the centre of the political debate, because it involves private hospitals and doctors, but public a public pair and a lot of liberals.
People unless that's very interesting way to frame. It repeat. Pete also said many times about Republicans, it's time to stop worrying about what publicans will say because they accuse us of being crazy, socialist, no matter what kind of policies we propose, so we might as well propose the policies that are right, so the fact that he came out of the gate and became so popular by being this bold, aggressive truth, teller and now he's looking to be the more moderate alternative. Joe Biden, I think, opens up a vulnerability for him. We go forward that Warren or sanders or some of the other more progressive candidate could easily explained yeah. He probably benefits by being one of many people attacking was between last night, but I was surprised that we saw so much angry PETE last night because of them, while I dont know that it did me level find out at another, did either mean DNS italian medicine on Twitter, like he has two choices when you're in third or fourth place. You have it choice of attacking and losing or not attacking arts
You had to do something to to shake up your campaign, but I mean to Johns point. I think, if you're going to attack, someone's honesty and credibility when you yourself a changed significantly on policy. It that's a challenge. When you're gonna sound a little bit harsh in tone when you I've been sort of bring everybody together. This is why they hate Washington. Stop the food fight sky. It felt a little disappointed with the previous part of escaping. I think I have a different take I've. I don't think he came off his angry. I think this was his best debate into the air, and I say that now because his performance was as good right. That's often how we generally. Booker was incredibly likeable and he had some good moments. He what his strategy as he knows, what he thinks he's Wayne? Isn't he executed it aggressively? He is trying you changed the dynamic of a race. He's really of them So the council stage there have no plan to win. They just really dont. He has a path. He is free
you did outlet is a hundred percent. He has really does a misery. He is required him to make some adjustments from where he was by you just but everywhere yadda yadda over the bed, every candidate? Does that right and like it? I think you like. We should watch it very carefully. What next such Bush about how much these debates matter in terms of a changing public opinion, but they are very helpful in understanding how candidate see the race. The question is: are the adjustments natural and they see my fantasy order they seem calculated and I dont- and I dont know you're right like that. We are, we are way too in this. We pay attention to this way too closely. It is very possible that for most people watch the debate, they just saw a really strong performance from PETE. He executed on a lot of answers very Very well, but there's a little bit of, like you know, for the last couple weeks, lotta pundits there being like, He's gotta get into that moderate layin, PETE gotta be more aggressive in these debates and then he shows up in
in the moderate line in more aggressive in these debates- and you know I saw List Psmith. His committee gives person on Twitter last night tweet out she's, like for all the people who are saying that peat couldn't throw or take a pie tonight's. You know tonight shows your otherwise it's like ok! Well, that's that's even more. Leaning into like aren't. You told us to do this and now what I also, though I actually think what more important to me is not did Heathrow punch or not, and even not what were the attacks? What was he trying to say about Warren or better or any other people? He got mixed up with its more. What does it say about him as a candidate right, so the the aggressiveness as a means to get attention? What is he saying so when he goes after all, with Warren about being a vase. If he saying I'm the honest, midwestern truth teller, when it goes after Beppo on guns, He sang I'm the only one being honest about what we can actually achieve right, like you start to see the attacks or a vehicle for the message that he is now trying to say, and I think it's actually them like. We have seen
after debate? The more moderate candidates struggle to figure out how to not fall into the same kind of you know, square She compared to Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders happen again and again. I think that that to me as the take away on PETE that he is thinking about how to be a angry, bold moderate, I thought he was like aggressive income going on Syria efforts. Yes newest shit, he was righteousness best my work and maybe the best moment of the night? Yet who is really impressive? I just do think like you know. He the front runners, and I are like twenty twenty one. Twenty two percent he sitting at fourteen percent, which is really kind of great place to be at this point in the race. And there is a risk If suddenly, all the world people are like what the fuck he was being addict her last night and all the Biden, people think that in all the better people do not like there is risk to being too negative too early of pressure. When I look at it, I think he was not as aggressive as,
Castro was with binding. The last debate, or as we talk about Biden, was with war and at the end of last night's debate over the Fuckin Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which was like way too much, but there were there arriving pizza walking to find my near? There were flashes of annoyance and aggressiveness that were a little much but keep him he mainly kept it. He may we kept and replace it with its eyes. You is it s, views tool that he was using. It was like it was like now's the time or I'm gonna make this point by contrast myself with you, but if you actually dig into the actual conflict with what are you actually saying, whatever actual This agreement is not really, I kind of it falls apart in your finger. Oh that's! My thing is that I think I think Warren was maybe not as prepared and shall be next time to sort of tear into some of peace in Kansas,
For that I thank my handled the everything she handled them as well as she could not say that I think that's a question for peace, which is now he has got like the pages turned for a long time. He was the inspiring Good news non threatening candidate right and now people he is, may he's making a play for the people. Supporters he's trying to take down Biden and Morn, because he is the one candidate who is most likely to benefit from the fall of both and so, if you talk to reporters, you talk people, the campaigns almost universally the kick. They can in the campaign that all the other campaigns are most annoyed with his feet. The answer I think there's gonna be several counter bunches of an extra days and want to see whether the ready for it world was also challenge on her wealth tax by better work and Amy clover. Charlot stick: listen, we need to be focused on lifting people and sometimes I think that Senator Warren is more focused on being native or or pitting some part of the country again
the other instead of lifting people up and make it should this country, comes together around, those solutions. I want to give a reality check here, dualism because no one on this stage, once you protect doing there is not even the billion air wants to protect billionaire. We just have different approaches. Your idea is not the only idea and when I look at this, I think about John Tromp, the guy that, after that tax bill past went to Morrow Largo got together with his cronies and to guess what you guys all got a lot richer. That was the one time in his presidency. He told the truth, so we have different way. I would repeal significant portions of that tax bill that help the red, including what he did with that corporate tax rates, including when he did on international taxation. You added all up. You got
a lot of money that one helps pay for, that childcare protects our dignity of work, make sure we have decent retirement and make sure that our kids can go to. Thank you said it is not one that global senator this was a member. I dont don't understand what were arguing about. Does Elizabeth and does not support the Trump tax cuts which- responding to is this idea that, if you're not for warns while tax than you are Pro billion, which is in our method, both Bernie, who has a similar about tax and war and have made, certainly implicitly in sometimes explicitly in club insurance position, which I think you do, very well is There are other ways to get that. No one here is probably not even Tom's direst, taxing himself if the dollars in order, when a campaign either closures answer was the sharper one there and made sense that US boys, that represents a second boy, What do you mean closure saying there is? We can do a lot? of good by repealing the trunk tax cuts, but I don't think anyone on its staged really disagrees with that she made it
telling argument for why we should repeal those tasks, but I dont understand that could shoot cause she's just saying I don't think the wealth tax works and in the way to get the money we need is to repeal the drum tax cuts. I gotta get that. I guess that's what I'm saying they didn't make an argument against Elizabeth warns plan. She made an argument for something everybody on that stage would do anyway. That's no one has no one except for betters. Weird argument was talking about why the wealth heck specifically is bad. The reason it You didn't play the first part about better answer that reason. Their betters answer was so fucking confusing and basically nonsensical was they asked better? Do you support a wealth tax and he said yeah, I think that's part of the solution, and then he was like I'm worried that Elizabeth Worn is punitive he's trying to make the point that was with warranted to divisive right. He, but you can have the facts like it is just that I wanted to thank. This is also peace argument right. He had this was implicit, the entire debate and war in competence to another centres. We need you and we need a candid who can unify the country when this is all over both the window,
Jane and fix all the fucking problems trumpeted, and the argument I think is unfair, but is that war is to divisive to do that and you think the well taxes, a terrible it way to make. That argue may be the worst way to make the argument the pulling on the wealth tax is latest pulling from June is sixty six percent of people This country think it's a good idea to bring the country together, specifically Elizabeth, what the Elizabeth WAR and has proposed a well texts very specific, sixty six percent agreed thirty percent disagree. Fifty five percent of Republicans think it's a good idea. Forty three percent- I warn you can talk all day, long about the vulnerabilities of Medicare for all and the position and taken Medicare for all. There are no political their abilities and being farewell tax there just ass. They should be in the Democratic Party platform in the twice when he mentioned, whether little more than you're, not there's, no doubt the chose. It show me doubted that shows its politically problematic. I'm no policy walk, but I think a hammer in billions urges pretty good politics and listening
oh man. You don't believe me. The ball, even the billion are unsafe, thinks it's good, Paul. I've saved a moment to say I think it's so exciting Tom sire spent forty eight million dollars to get an unsafe and was so nice if everybody to kind of make him part of it now because like when you paper vip ticket like that, like some knows, you dont know if you're really gonna feel like it was worth it, but then like the fact that any made a joke about him like made him part of the show, I think, was really cool divisive tie I kind of like the black eyes. I, like I by running, is a backdoor that year. He wears it all the time. It's wonderful! pardon Amerika is brought to you by Tonal systems tunnel. Is a smart at whom Jim the replaces every machine in the weight room and his personal training programmes builtin. So you'll never have go to the gym again, goodbye to that swedish tools, Iceland, hey nice job tone- I just don't know tonal listening to the idea that a great shout tunnel and the best-
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later in the night. Work was even challenged by common Harris under reluctance to call on Twitter to ban Donald Trump account. Let's take a lesson Senator WAR, and I just want to say that I was surprised to hear that you did not agree with me that, on the subject of what should be the rules around corporate responsibility for these big tech companies, when I called on Twitter to suspend doll, trumps account that you did not agree, and I would I would urge you to join me, because here we have novel tromp lists sixty five million twitter followers and is using that platform, as the President of the United States to openly intimidate witnesses to threaten witnesses. To obstruct justice, and he and his account should be taken down. We saw in El Paso
shooter in his manifesto was informed by how Donald Trump uses that platform- and this is a matter of corporate responsibility. Twitter- should be held accountable and shut down that site. It is a matter of safety and corporate accountability. Thank you, Senator warn you can respond. So look I don't just when a push Donald Trump off Twitter. I want to push him out of the White House. That's our job, but the way join me in saying that is twitter. Account can be set down, let's figure I'll know so We hear the very beginning of that, but that will thing started with Elizabeth. In talking about for bringing up Facebook and in tech regulation and then come a sort of get herself ready and says, You know Senator Warren. I called on Twitter to take down the account in, and I saw that you refuse to join me on this. Why so? She she specific. We decided to just kind of take make a challenge to Elizabeth warn about this issue. Why do we think this yeah? I mean
So I criticized this line, or maybe a little too harshly and twitter her from some folks on com with team, like I like, there's a lot of that year. The great line on this all weapons ban went when she brought up reproductive health. That is really compelling powerful. Those are big, important issues right. The fact that we have a white nationalist president who is inciting violence against others, I think, is a big, important issue that is worthy of discussion on that stage, but I think the solution, shutting down his twitter account by appealing to Jack Dorsey. Is it small and will not solve it? I mean just hope he can go on Facebook. He can go on Instagram. You can do big rallies. He can hold a press conference right like we have to beat Donald Trump by appealing to voters, not by appealing to Jack Dorsey. I think so right, but like this, a debate at everything is planned in design for political vintage, and so, even just from like a tactical perspective, I dont think strategically this week
as the issue. I would have taken up against Elizabeth Warren, I'm not dismissing the issue of abuse of people on Twitter, but I dont think it's gonna drive a lot of support. Her way it seemed sort of pre calculated. It seems smaller than the issue of the way Facebook specifically has distorted our mockery and like it wasn't also just one little moment relic when you say so like that? You know all the report is gonna pick it up. They live on Twitter and I watched her post debate. Interview on CNN Anonymous NBC in this was the focus of both those conversations like three questions in a row on both networks. Are they should not the thing I would have wanted to be talked about today? I was also pretty critical of it and you know actually you care switcher. I talked to her or not relieve it about. This injection makes a really good argument for why trumps account should be taken down from twitter. Actually argument is really making is Twitter should enforce its rules and by any food
our objective. Reading, twitters policies dont from violates them all the time, and he does so in a way that incite violence and hates and could even lead to like genuine harm and and and threats and and and fear for people when it does every single day. That's absolutely true. Elizabeth Warren was making a larger argument about the structural problems in our economy. The ways in which big tech companies and monopolies are influencing our politics and influencing our society and the dangers that that poses in the importance of of of regulation and comma hers was saying that Donald Trump should be banned from twitter and to end Twitter should observe its its terms of service. Fine but it was also using it as an opportunity to draw contrast right. You didn't make an argument for removing Trump and twitter. She took an opportunity to try to kind of put Elizabeth worn on notice to draw a contrast to make a moment out of it and I found that ultimately, not I just didn't find it reflected well of comedy
So, I think, is a much better Canada than that whose had incredibly strong debates in the past. Who can make any compelling argument against Donald Trump who can be bigger? Yet I think it's pretty simple. If Como hers had said by the way hey. You know now that we're since we're talking about tech, big tack and its responsibility, I've called on Jack to shut down doll. Trumps account and I hope everyone on this stage will join me in saying that I don't think she would have gotten any court. Moreover, I think anyone, but that it was well. It seems I never begrudge someone for taking a position that they, really believe in. It are passionate about you know, even if it's something that I disagree with, because they just genuinely believe in it were I were I worry, is when candidates seem like they are trying to calculate a moment or a lane or a position or some regret, and I look, I really that's campaigns you do that and campaigns right, but sometimes its clumsier than other times right. Like a. We just said that the pizza, I believe that pits
position here has been a little clumsy and a little obvious, and I think that moment Gama Harris getting self ready. Turning to Elizabeth WAR and pointing to her to try to bring the contrast was what that was about, like I like, I said if she just stood up and said, We want the stage should join me in this. It would have been different, it would have been different. It was a stunt. It is the definition of a Sunday was a pre planned movement for her to not just make a case for something important which is trying to de platform, violence and racist rhetoric. It was about trying to take a shot at Elizabeth Warren and, at a time when I was with worn, was making
pretty big and important argument about large forces in our society in our economy, the kind of the place where she's strongest as a candidate- and you know I just I find it really disappointing- because I think one of things we talked about many times- is how strong candidate we believe Kamel Harris to be. We saw that in the first debate, when she really, you know, struck at Joe Biden in a way that showed the kind of strength she has as a candidate, but what we ve also talked about all along, as we sometimes don't understand the larger justification for why she's running for president, the question I would have for for fur first enter Harris would be. What does it say about the kind of president you'll be that you think this is the big issue to draw contrasts with analysed with warm, I mean yet and look every can it that this is this is the problem? Is we get this deep into? The primary? Is that all the candidates were not front runners or being told by everyone, they know and everyone whose working for the amendment is consulting them, that, like you, gotta draw contract
gotta have a moment to get to get out front here and it's not just comma, like a lot of them are doing that and you know it it's tough to watch, because so many them seem pre planned and it's just like it's an x the level of artifice on the process. That, I think is you know it's just zombie is sometimes the only other thing. I would add to this very long conversation about this topic. Is this? Is it worth king about what to be really concerned round. Behaviour of tat companies, as relates to politicians and Donald Trump his facebooks policy that allows politicians must obey Donald Trump to lie in ads and basically use facebooks immense amount of data to target disinformation at the voters at Facebook tells them are most likely to fall, for that is information, and that is in like a massive threat to democracy, and I don't think that should be a point of contrast between the candidates. But I think it is an issue that should be raised and Facebook yet to be held accountable for
and the present or camp Canada can help do that. Yeah for sure I would like to repeat earlier who was particularly dominant and and and more aggressive unusual and in one of his most praise moments of the night. I think rightly, he fell. A veteran tells you we debated, the role are military should play in defending our kurdish allies and Syria. Let's take a look at this: or of the Kurds being done Turkey is yet another negative consequences of the regime change war that we. Waging in Syria Donald Trump has the blood of the Kurds on his hand, but Do many of the politicians in our country from both parties who have supported? This ongoing regime change war in Syria that started in two thousand eleven along. With many in the mainstream media who have been championing, ensure leading this region, change war. Respect we congresswoman. I think that is dead wrong the slaughter going on in syria- is not a consequence of a merry
in presents its a consequence of it. Withdraw any betrayal. By this president, american allies and american values. Look. I didn't should have gone to Iraq in the first place. I think we need to get of Afghanistan, when it's all the case that a small number of specialised special operations, forces and intelligence capabilities, we're the only thing that stood between part of Syria and what we are seeing now, which is the beginning of a genocide and surgeons of ISIS. Meanwhile, soldiers in the field are reporting that for the first time they feel ashamed ashamed of what their country has done so far. What for small? What's wrong with tells he's argue, and in what is her overall. What is its hard to pin down her world view here? Yes, she's, saying that Turkey is beating Syria and killing. The Kurds are allies because of a quota regime change war that we ve been waging in Syria, and she said that allow
just use it for as long as you referred to a regime change, war in Yemen is well, that's just not accurate right, when Obama was president. He called on President Assad to go, but there was no effort to you know, marched towards Damascus and take him out that judge that never have, and so she told me she just totally wrong. In fact, the northeastern part of Syria has been occupied by these kurdish forces, and things have been relatively safe and relatively calm, their fur seven. Since basically the Kurds and an international coalition waged this campaign against ISIS and took back rock on all these other places. So I don't know what the fuck are you talking about and then she starts talking about how the New York Times and CNN smeared her for calling for. So it's like it just so loaded with grievance and youth is moment on this huge state When you are a veteran- and you have the experience serving the military in knowledge,
region and into make it about yourself in the way you are treated by. A scene and commenter just so misses the point. I couldn't believe it yet and I think the reason that pits answer so effective, as I pointed out that he just delivered it really well and was strong and forceful was anything. Someone onstage makes an argument that seems like trumps argument, which she basically did it, and then you can say don't make trumps argument. You know is a pretty powerful moment and I think PETE seized on that pretty frequently yeah interesting. You know that the first applause line of the night I made fun of an earlier the charming, but like Tom Sires, the first time the audience broken agree to applaud when they were kind of, I think may be told not to. And to the chagrin of the candidates, with their prepped applause lines, to sort of going into justify that was there is our laughed track, yeah really tough, but
it was when he said less remember where every person the state is a decent person who would be a far better President Donald Trump. We should all just keep that in mind like it was it was it. I got a very gracious way for Tom Sire to introduce himself and a reminder to us like the stakes and sometimes in these debates, especially with so many people and say you lose sight of that and what he did was. I think, re centre the focus on the actual stakes of this and just how damaging Donald Trump is and how unpatriotic he is, and I think that was incredibly powerful. Untied the best moment p had across alternates vinegar, another he'd exchanges between peat and better or Rourke, who continue the fight. They ve been having about better proposal to have the government by back every assault weapon in America. Let's listen. I wanna make sure we have universal background checks and red flag laws that we end the sale of these Weapons war, but to use the analogy of healthcare, be as though we said, look we're we're for peace. Mary care, but let's not talk about mental health care cassettes. A bridge too far. People need that primary care. Now. So let's say that for another date, no less
decide what we are going to believe in what we are going to achieve and the let's bring this country together. In order to do that, listening my fellow Americans to those Muslims who demand action to those students who march for our lives, who in fact came up with this strawberry bold beggar guy that calls for mandatory by backs, let's follow their inspiration and lead and not be limited by the poles and the can patents and the focus groups are there. Where did you ever have on to do what's right, their budgetary problems in the polls? The problem is the policy and We need lessons from you on courage, political or per Everyone on this stage is determined to get something done. One on this stage recognizes release. I thought we did that the problem is not. Their democrats. You don't agree with your particular idea of how to handle this. The problem is the National Rifle Association and their enablers in Congress, and we should be united in the fight for their rights, so who is
persuasive here on the US better or PETE. I think that a better was making argument about policy with passion. P was making an argument about legislative strategy and put the hollow Republicans react to our proposals, which, as you noted in the terms of peace, awkward transitions is the exact opposite of the argument that he's been he made through the beginning of this campaign that we should say we believe and they make itself. The voters and not try to change our rhetoric, to adjust to the republican talking points that are coming yeah. I mean I, I think it's pretty clear if you were to be inside the Buddha Judge campaign that none of them were happy with PETE blurting, that better its position on this was chasing us. Shiny object, rightly gets a dismissive thing to say it's also again. Looking at the poem like we did in the wealth tax you no mandatory backs, surprisingly to me, is
position that a little over half the country agrees with right is not a very unpopular position is in fact a you know: it's not like a whole bunch of cancer, for it I'm sure it harder and in swing states and swing districts, but it's not terror we unpopular I'm so to call it a shiny object. Does open you up to charges of? Are you too worried about the poles which better accused him of being and then to come back at that? by saying. Don't you I don't need any lessons in courage from you, referencing his military service, struck me as a little much, particularly when better started by started the debate by praising P and Elsie Gabert for their military service and was making a point purely about poles and didn't even say the word carnage actually yeah,
since when do you know, but interesting like this was one of those times rose like I'm, China like Peat is so I just see what he's trying to avoid saying in the answer in its end and that the but does PETE think the give if, if he could make pollen in a vacuum would he support were was doing. I don't know, I don't know the answer, because he didn't want to address the actual substance, I didn't want to actually get said he did, which was funny. He was like this isn't about. The politics is about the policy which I dont think is workable. What budget which is interesting right like and then it was as this sort of kind of confusing conversation about the enforcing the law, which I found like very clear question weird question and weird conversation that relating was pretty hard to follow, and indeed much of an impression. But it's interesting at it. The thing that I contrast with his what PETE said earlier about the keynote after Donald Trump has gone, the country will be incredibly divided. Do you really want to see? Do you really want to create even more division by by going for Medicare? For all I got. I think that a more
honest argument right basically saying like I don't think it's worth the political capital to do, Medicare for all I'd rather do public option and something else. I find that I think at least worthy of a debate with his his push back. I just was just heard of it: use, I'm being honest, you are being politically unrealistic. Your boldness is a sign of ordinary politics. My lack of boldness is a sign of the fact that I tell it like it is, but it just wasn't telling it like it is because he was you know, and seeing through the various pitfalls what he was saying. I'm sure there are people who think that the Kurds line was was strong and well delivered in a compelling and sets PETE up well to throw a punch, Donald Trump that may or may not evolve as military service. There, probably others who think they had better works. Framing of making this about victims gun violence in March for our lives felt bigger right and made it not about him or the politics of the moment. Big, like step,
back like I think they both landed, some blows. It got them some attention which any pride net benefits both campaign, but, like longer term Better Rourke has done a lot of great work on raising the issue of gun, violence and gun control in this campaign. If he cannot find another chapter in this campaign, another set of issues to talk about it will be over and they need to know that. I like these, can it's like they all have to make next debate or they're. Probably their campaign is not to be able to raise any more money and they will essentially to shut down and like. If I were his team, I will be trying to figure out what is that next thing? How do I brought and this message that I've been delivering on guns about a whole other set of issues. I think there is a real debate to be had about the feasibility of mandatory by. I get the impression that I support any democratic have navigate, but there either
questions how you get these guns? What's the process, the penalty for people not doing it, yeah it like the even those with Warren Ryan Bernie Centres have not adopted this position. Rights of this isn't what necessarily a progressive litmus test then also wishes known that Castro made a very interesting link has made an interesting point on this, which is, I dont want to give the police and other reasons going door to door in communities, especially canoes collar poor communities. With you know the problems we have with police violence trying to take back guns, which is not an argument eyed her before an interesting that erased it. I think there are two elements in it. I think it is good when democrats take positions that move the Overton Window thanks. I think this is done that, because it is insane not just that people can by air fifteenth and other weapons of war, but that there is tens of thousands running around you know rolling around our streets. My promise Its argument is my most and it is the democratic argument that most and noise
it is. It is nineties Obama argument that we cannot. There are certain things we cannot say because they will accept them. Upset republican voters that if we this. They will turn out against US we'll make the inner re want to spend more money or the cope. Others want to spend more money in any store any discussion around twenty twenty doesnt doesn't begin with the premise that everybody convertible turnout is wrong. We should just say: well, we believe one and if you did one person whose may that argument quite eloquently is PETE booted. Yet again, I'm sure it's peaches, just rolled out thirty to fifty Pharaoh hogs said what the fuck you going to do about that. It the same the same people, the same strategies and pundits who told me there's gotta, be aggressive and been Merlin were also concerned when he made that argument about Republicans are gonna call us crazy socialists anyway, we might as well say what we believe and they were concerned about then, and then they ve been pushing him to the moderate laden than he did it. Why are you going with us? I mean
do maybe a line in this specific way, but he does John when they believe in a moderate approach two governing it. It is sincere belief that that's what we should be doing by dont until we get the pact the court will now by the levity. That's interesting, because, if pizza repeats only arguments last they were I'm for my Medicare for all want plan, because I just think it's too expensive to do at the other. Better planning is a better plan. I dont like mandatory by banks only because I think it's unworkable, then he would be fine there with the? I would not be criticising it right. He keeps bringing in its two devices it's a shiny object. He keep bringing the politics of this in to his argument and that's where his problem is because previously he said that politics, shouldn't matter is only critiques of these progressive positions. Are policy based? That's totally fine brain
politics into it is is refuting himself from earlier and ran tragedy that anyway to square it. Is there any way you can actually make this consistent from what you said before about not adopting republican talking points and then not wanting to be too divisive. Emmy every candidate has this problem yet rifle Elizabeth Warrant is made not or not, doing fundraiser a big part of it. She did a bunch of one razors, yet they gave her first, ten million dollars in seed money for this campaign money has gone positions that don't that he's transfer the circle on. Calmly Harrison supported. Bernice myths. Cosponsor bereavement, overall bill now has a different. Like everyone has this problem. The question is how well as PETE, going to be able to execute this and our people going to effectively call him out on right, and that is if you don't have to become open. It's your problem There are viewed in figure it out democratic, primary twenty Twond up so by Bernie Sanders who appeared in this debate just a few weeks after suffering heart attack. He got questions about health in his age, but he was also
very sharp and energetic in this debate, I thought here he is chow. Changing Joe Biden record don't talk about working with Republicans are getting things done But you know you also got honour. I say this as a good friend, You got two disasters war in Iraq, but you got a bag. The bill which is hurting middle class. Families all of this country, you, trade agreements like that. The anti all with China, done, which of course, those four million jobs. I say one thing about that exchange. We ve been talking better. The right way to go after buying a lot of people have gone after buying a whole bunch of different ways, and this primary to me going after his policies in his. Occurred, especially a rack trade deals. The bankruptcy bill is, I think, probably with voters the most of it. The way to go after to buy a lot of people are waiting. I think a lot of you will think that foreign policy and experience is Biden, strength right, certainly Joe Biden does. He said at last night
stage. The challenge for him is that when he was asked last night to articulate what he would do differently in Syria, it wasn't the most coherent thing. I've ever heard, nor That particular compelling. You often makes the point about I've met with Putin. I met with anyone like maybe that works. I certainly simple for voters understand but like at it. Come away blown away, by the the net impact of that experience, and then Bernie consistently drops the fuckin hammer on the Iraq war vote in that he is not figured out how to counter that. Yet we're on like round three or four of that exact same criticism. You think voters still care about that It's a great question should deny tonight, I'm sure it's diminishing in the minds of some voters, and especially for younger voters who are you know, have aged into the electron work
around during the Iraq war debate may be less oh, but that I think, there's probably like issue five or six after one through for being elect ability, but I do think that there are a bunch of anti were activists in Iowa that still can be pretty influential. What we think of journeys prefer in general, before we get her Biden stuff great, we should get his doctor yeah good work. He was really strong, and this is a very important debate for Bernie, because his campaign, because he'd been speed, behind warning. The poles you there been supported show him getting closer to the body to the minimum. Single digits in some cases and they ve been. Sort of narrative of is this over for his campaign and so needed a strong showing, and he has put together, he had get cash on here. Nebraska come out here too good for the highlight of anyone else is most cash on it. He had a good debate performance and he's gonna cap off this week with the endorsement of AOL. Proceeded to labour in Ohio, more at a rally in queens and so
He is reasserted himself as a force in this race, and that was incredibly important. He had had a like a mediocre drapery once it could have been pretty devastating to his chances. Bernie is not going anywhere, that that was that was that much clear from us, and he is in this for the long haul and and look, I think we back to the matter for discussion his response, I thought, on Medicare for all punching back at by an inverted judge and clover. Jar was even stronger than warrens last night, because he had this moment. He said the Democratic Party has to have the guts to take on the insurance companies and the drug companies, and it was real and as someone someone was conducting a focus group somewhere of democratic voters and said that the focus group of voters much preferred Bernie response actually to Warren's response in the tube to Peat and Amy, which I thought was interesting I think we saw its market before long before we got to the health question right. You can ask Bernie and Biden Health questions. They will answer those questions
in that moment, but in how they perform right. That is what we are looking at and Bernie was incredibly strong. I thought you know them. When I actually I forgot to mention what I think is important is Elizabeth warrant. I think for the first I'm connected, she made an argument against private insurance. She talked about how, in her work in bankruptcy, you discover just how how many medical related bankruptcies are for people with insurance, which I think is one of the most compelling and important arguments for Medicare for all not just to public option, but wooden Bernie did, I think, in the healthcare section anything what braided was there were show why his he so strong- and I think sometimes I myself do this. We all do that you get into the kind of the tactics in the strategy within you realize wait. What actually makes a candidate incredibly stronger debate. Is they have a compelling and faithful rationale for their candidacy? That makes them unassailable right. You know, Bernie can make
incredibly strong argument, because it is something he said forever. It is consistent. It is incredibly strong. It speaks to his values. It speaks to his genuine philosophical disagreement with the kind of politician Joe Biden is, and it means that the candidates are debating. Garnish, not on little things, not things on the outskirts, but like their face, each other kind of just a chest, big stuff versus big stuff, and I think that's why we seen. Bernie have such like pods, Mercosur brought you buy. Quip would actually makes a better toothbrush industrial shrink, our claims of miraculous trendy ingredients, multiple modes. If you ask your dentist, they'll tell you it's less about the brush more about how you use it. Five lids, I might get if I buy yeah yeah, were, as other wrung, had been thrown NASH and a beer rough brush the rough morning. We get no, no, no, no lights. That's why quibbles created by
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dotcom slashed cricket to get your first refill free go right now to get q you IP dotcom, slash crooked. As always positive merk brought in by the cash aspirant demand a cash. It is the fastest and easiest way to people. I can get paid back and we are not sure why it's not a new phone. Yet if it's not in your phone, shocking we've been doing this every every time. You listen to us and look. It's not just our plea: You get five dollars, you download it. That's for you My daughter also goes to donors choose and you know, that's helping supply classrooms all across the country and to go set five dollars for you and to give it to donors. Choose you put in the Composite AV, Franco, Spencer, Reid, been the coach Spencer is not real. Is there anything else? That's it! That's the gist that's: that's the real running the just as it can ensure recalcitrant listeners recalcitrant, although this guy BS eighty over here look at the sky, Princeton Review over here, he's working on the crossword puzzle
perfect, did hundred on me a verbal authorities over here. This had been overlap, labour- that is so at one point, Biden and worn tangled over the consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Let's listen to that club. I agree with the great job she did and I went on the four and God you votes. I got vote for that bill. I convince people to vote for so let's get those things to set our warned. You wanna respond. I am deeply grateful to President Obama, We fought so hard to make sure that what was passed into law- and I am deeply grateful- every single person who fought for it and who help ass it into law, but under standard at home that job your job. Thank you,
but understand this. It was dream big fight, hard people told me go for something little go for something small gophers thing that the big corporations will be able to accept I said: oh, let's go for it. Agency that will make structural change in our economy, and President Obama said I will fight that any some airlines had to fight against people in its own administration valued and have to be willing to make mayor booted? I beg structural trained. Why do you think I've got so mad there. I don't know about so bad that we back the angle I was watching. We were all watching from the key gestures at her and it looks so aggressive. It sounded so petty in so condescend of all the things to grab credit, for I dont know why he would lurch for credit for the formation of the sea. If B, B,
What are you doing? Man and her response was poised devastating and like he'd. He really had a bad moment there. I'm surprises, getting more attention, vetoes and meat and loaded with its he. We access seem condensate, like we criticized Castro for going to our divine last debate, and I thought this was the same. Kind of aggressive tone is the same thing and it was bad you Know- and I just and also its like talk even thing about voters. Mines right like I got these votes for you for like an can see that's good for everyone that we all agree on like. Why are we making it about? Like I get, the lake is, if like he was reluctant, but because he was added soldier, he wouldn't got the votes. Voters like well versed in the whip count process right at hopping about where they haven't. You believe you ve been robbed of your credit for Elizabeth warrants nature arrangement. I know what it is he's thinking to himself. I have been a good progressive Democrat. My whole life. I was a good
It's all during the Obama administration. I did everything I was told, and now I'm running for President everyone's telling me I'm this corporate stooge moderate, who doesn't care about anything, that's what's in here mind in the mind of his campaign in every once in a while there's these univee kit, he can't control these ashes of anger where he, you know, talks about that and how angry putting aside brightens reaction to warrant, which I think is problematic for the recent your guy said I think the point in trying to make is. It was really fucking hard to pass. The bill did see if he was it yet and whenever there was trouble getting something through the Senate. Pinewood the Senate and he would deliver the votes he did that on the whole, gee thanks and I think Ryan grim from intercept tweeted. He covered the see if he be for a year or so and did never never ran into binding in that process I think it is true that any formation, the policy development, the staffing of the city, now something Biden was involved in. It was a new policy reform. But it is true when we needed votes from
The conservative group of democratic senators bind deliver those he only. He made his point well by it like that is true. It also is a point that came at like if he had been directly accused by Elizabeth Warren or moderator of you. Don't care about the sea of p B or you weren't there on that fight, and then he responded Actually, I was out there getting those votes, it'll be totally legitimate to say that It's really came out of. Nowhere is the was, is busy Turning to the meadow, conversely, why not? The actual? That's exactly which, which was the reason it was low. Rightly just passing. Don't you think it's it's in there is, there is a real you know there is a real lesson right that by could offer their right that, like passing Dodd Frank rate, the Elizabeth Warren brought an incredibly bold and innovative ideas. To me it before long, for this is one of the candidates to me just from our time and
I doubt it was always to me an inspirational case of of democracy, because here she was just a thinker and intellectual who had this idea for an agency that could protect consumers and it through politics. Through the Obama administration through victories in elections, there was a an administration that was willing to embrace it and fight for it, and then it took an incredible amount of horse trading in and difficult politics to get Dodd Frank through. In fact, the consumer Financial Protection Agency had to be downgraded to consumer Financial Protection Bureau because of truck because in the fight to get it through, you had to make compromises that will downgraded just a bit put inside of another agency just to get it done and then, after that Elizabeth Warrant, who is to run the agency got dinged, and so she was but even run the agency she created again, just because of just just bargaining and politics that takes place, which I think Joe Biden has a case too. To make on. Why that's important, why his expertise in it? that binds performance overall. I do think that he had a few
strong moments when he's asked about his age, and he said you know one of the reasons I think I'm running for president, just because my age and with age comes wisdom. Another one when we were talking about this before in policy is regular and form you. Could you could bring a few times, but when he said look I've met with one I've met with, I've been, as you know, like the he did it our job last night than usual. I thought talking up his experience and in his wisdom that came with experience, so tat. He had some good moments there, but again and I think another answer is he. You know some of the other answers I couldn't follow again. I just couldn't follow. I have a ton of respect for Joe Biden, I think he's incredibly smart. He is experienced. He does have wisdom that comes to your age I just can't great him on a curve. You know how to shoot a week, I'm waiting for him to walk. One of these debates and seem sharp and on his toes and
but everything to do with a smile like the Joe Biden who debated Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin- did that big beaming, Biden smile that could make every every political shot go down easier and instead get the like pointing at Elizabeth Warren shouting moments which I think are just gonna nullify anything else. It happened, and I think Biden has begun to make a turn right and is not a scam turn. But is it like move in a notion minor, but he is deciding to make his experience and asset My wish is that we ve been talking about a lab exorbitant look like trying to a wide the age question now leaning into it in a way which is I'm here to do all these things, because I have this experience to do all these things. Are the person best suited mainly to be tromp, but to fix the problems? The Trump has created an that's it. That's a very good argument to make. I think that the problem that for bind the Tommy his pointed, I think very rightly pointed out,
Britain has lost the happy part of happy warrior and that is very understandable, like his family has been in the crosshairs from the prisoner had states for the last two weeks, even his son, who is incredibly important him I mean turbines connection to his Children is so incredibly closing born in tragedy and his son I struggled in his life and be known in in struggled in the public eye because with whose father was is now being tweeted about by the present. I had states like think. I'm not trying to greet him on a curve, understand a great context for why we may not see the smile inability to laugh the stuff off that you otherwise than we have seen for binding in the past year, but I also think it's an. I don't think this is necessarily an age thing, because Bernie Sanders as a year older and just had a hard sech a couple weeks ago and was a sharp as they come in this debate. But it's just this I don't know of any usually happens to Biden when he's getting a little angry about things that the he becomes a little less coherent on some of these answers like
almost gets so ready to go that he just starts. You know blabbing a little bit. It's just. I think you I don't know how to look. It may not custom among his supporters, but if you know we can all see the trend lines in the race and he does need to sort of expand the universe of people. We're supporting him at some point or early not lose any more. But I don't know I don't know if it's yours and while I think he's gotta find a way to be sharper. I've been involved with prepping binding for tv, shows, interviews in the past and he's someone who's pretty resistant to prep me hee. He is he knows what he wants to say and he feels like he knows how to say better unease. Usually right, He clearly has submitted to the process here and it makes sense as we said before, he has the best debate preppers in all of democratic all before, but it sort of feels like he has one hundred and twenty seconds worth of things to say and he's trying to get him in the sea.
Seconds- and he knows that and invite these highly knows things like in that answer where he was going through, is accomplishments, which should have been a very, very powerful moment. He tried to fit so many things in that you like saying you accomplished. Twelve things is not twice as good as in your compost, thanks running- and I think that has been a problem and you may be as you he's goin he'll be able to get into a more natural balance between having the strategic benefits? of being involved with a very good debate, process and still training. The authenticity that is has been quarters. Political peel for decades now view more carrots. We haven't talked about. Yet we should how effective was Corey Booker strategy of constantly calling for democratic unity and focusing on Donald Trump. That was that was pretty much his play last night, Coy Booker once again was great he was likeable. He had moments that cause people to clap and, as far as I can tell, you did nothing to advance his kit, his path of presidency. I do not understand
his theory of the case his plan to win how to change the dynamic of the race where he is at three percent. The bulls- and I know we know we said this before his campaigns as an organised organise organised in that is incredibly important, but you have to organise for something you have to have arrived. Now and it just is not. I have very beginning its own, who really likes crowbar a lot in the key offers a lot. Both industries to raise and in american wife, I you have yet to figure out what he is like. What is his case for himself to be president? Why him over everyone I get the where everyone on the stage is a good person ever on. Here is better than Donald Trump. I get the I respect the sentiment and I respect the the strategy there. I do think, though United so like. Maybe it did work for him hasn't today, but maybe did the same I do think, though, that you, as we were in a week we pointed out that peat has. Change strategy over time and the bit discordant, it's worth, noting that
after the last of it, I believe Cory Booker went on tv and said that people are worried that Joe Biden is too old and might fumble the ball before it gets over. The right, which is pretty stark contrast, the threat to the tone we see on the debates it so like to me, interesting. He always seem sort of like kind of annoyed or bemused by the questioner I got on its rubs being way. But I do very: I really like him as well. He feels like an outdated outside observer to the presidential campaign yeah it's in there. I think there is a moment during one of the the lid alarm. You know. Scuffles, I think want one with p. And and and Booker comes in once again to say. So this is what I'm talking about. You know. We can't do not what we know what we have to react to not do Donald Trump were for him or whenever the specific line was, and it was an opportunity I think, to kind of enter the debate right. So we think say why you think me guns. Thing is I'm gonna, say waving mayor, peaceful shit. That's what you think you Europe
says that they may repeat foreshadow he's he said at last week. He also makes rabies all things that better came to the issue to recently yet The problem of all those who have been interests have interesting things to say, but of what we hear them and an eye, and I guess like to me, I think I have always found the promise, of course Booker as a candidate quite real, and I think it's ended something heap. He kind of shows you little glimpse of an. And when he talks about love and embracing people disagree with and Anna and a deeper understanding of what it means to be part of politics like I have I I knew I talked amendment one when I when I interviewed him like I just I keep waiting for like the the meat on the bonuses. Okay, if you have this differ Take show me what it means and policy show me what it means in politics show it means and how you conduct herself as a candidate and because he served stays to these
platitudes and the debate. You never see it and I just been waiting to see it and once again I didn't. I guess if I would write a guess what the Booker campaign strategy is and what thing what book research was last night there all trying to become the alternative to the third alternative to Biden and Warren Bernie forth right and Booker's cases, I'm gonna be the one who is all about bring this country together and not attacking my fellow candidates. Emmy, like you said he has not been there all along because he has been taking jobs here and there, but last night clearly, strategy was can it be the guy that, when all these people are fighting and taken shots at warrant or by whatever else, I'm gonna stand back and people are not are gonna want that people are going to want someone who can bring someone together and talk about love and talk about unity and all that kind of stuff. So I think that's his plan, whether it works who knows we in Castro was he'd been more aggressive in past debates lesson. I think he was much more.
Subdued, I I'd like, as someone who had criticism in the past have been too aggressive. I really liked the civilian Castro that showed up last night. I thought you did a great job. I thought in here, a lot, a really strong answers, and you know that, but it it again it's a question for you brought up in four Castro for Booker forbid, oh for a lot of these candidates, like what's your plan to go have to three percent, and I think this is an easy. It's not an easy thing to solve right, because if it was you just feeling, ok attack, other AIDS and that's how I get it, but there are risks with attacking other candidates. There are risks with being too aggressive that we talked about a lot on the other end of the spectrum. There's rests with not standing out and has given current. So and you, when you're in these campaigns, you like how do we get attention like Tommy said without coming across, is too aggressive or unfair to calculated, and that's a really tough challenge at this stage there is is really tough and it's tough, not because just it's it's not.
Really a tactical question. Part of the issue is that the three front runners represent the kind of broad ideological divisions of the democratic movement. You have Joe Biden representing the centre to centre left. You have Bernie representing the left in have Elizabeth WAR. Toward Bernie, but but basically saying that I will do try left pretty pretty nobody, but I was a pretty left while establishment friendly friendly. Where I stand, Women friendly left, saying I know she's capitalists, Bernice Democratic Socialist, but I'm but I'm, but I'm not a moderate, like Joe Biden and enter into that All of these. Other candidates have struggled for months and months to find a way to get into that conversation and and and show why they are equally suited to be the nominee, and I think we see various efforts to that end. Being agreeing on safe again last night continues to raise a good amount of money continues to pole.
Higher than some of the other candidates on the stage last night, what we think about how to deal with the possible exception. I'm trump running on racism, Andrew and a successful single issue can in history, made he they all talk well. Lay myself again come I like her, yet he ran he put out in the debate. He made that debate issue and it wasn't. You get a very serious discussion for in front of one. I assume was millions of Americans and put it squarely in the middle. The policy discussion, the country, and for that he should be upon den early was with worn, went up to him after the debate last night and said. Could you please send me the data on you? Be I and the details of your plan, everything he was prompt about it, then what you just said about Steve Forbes is disgraceful, and I should like to address the forget. Like hell, everyone admit this. He Vodafone bored. I therefore said: look fine Tom you gotta, get credit. You you see these debates. We all offer some subjective opinion about
We think happened or what voters will think, but then there's a bunch of data and serves the fund raising in pulling and everything is an unmitigated success story. You kids, like entering two years ago, was a guy with a with one. I wondered idea about universal busier. Come in now, he's duking it out on stage of those with warned about automation, liveth, pretty unbelievable. It's us again the interesting and we get you. These debates can be very frustrating but disturbing bag we ve seen actually really good and interesting shifts in the policy discussion as a result of this primary, whether its serve you be, I leading to discussion of you be Iverson. Jobs guarantee both incredibly big, would be incredibly bold and and and and and new policies. The well tax, I think better. We move the debate on guns. I think whom Castro move the debate on immigration to be critical of some of the and which has moved it pretty. Certainly in police reform and police reform as well. And I'm forgetting a few, but but we ve seen that in this debate, like there has been in a genuine policy focus
in these campaigns and actually one of the one, the interesting things in this debate. That is partly because I think moderators having a little how'd by Twitter and afraid to be called frivolous, though debate questions have been such big policy questions as well being immigration questions big healthcare since, but actually there hasn't been a lotta like Alan and George Bush, well yeah. I feel as though they are not perfect, but I think one of the reasons we ve seen it stay at these sort of big policy loves his cause. There's been such a focus on people. From the camera and finally, let's and where we began Tom Tire First first debate. First time on the stage What are we? Thank God we have at times died. He did good made between you good bye. He might he has a message. He delivered it. It's a lot like warning, Bernice message close there's something using about a billionaire saying tax me more. It's the Roosevelt trader to their tat class, NEA argument, Wickham from pretended to be
I contact not sure how doubly harder for us a lot. I contacted me specifically staring into your soul me and Tommy sties where we lock and has all night long. I like them like look on that stage. You not talking to the other candidate or the ADI rate. I can write in Tibet Camera which, as you know, the piece of advice that you do give people who are pressing for debate but he'd. He took out advice and he ran with the in terms of just like success, rightly along the same lines: Amene Tom's Dire, spent Schiller money to run ads and get a million dollars the guy itself on the stage. So he had a very expensive strategy executed in areas Gabby, as also. I am very glad that that the billionaire on that stage is not saying we to be nicer. To billionaires more moderate Indianapolis enter its it's, not the kind of shells. It's under unfit right on our shoulders: it's not I'm fiscally, I'm fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. It's actually. I think I'll bet that, basically, you want what oh it's
five, but it's basically saying you want what Elizabeth woman is offering, but you don't think she can win. Take a look at me. I'm a big man, my trump yet wrote that That's right! I really don't think she can win is because you have all the same policy positions is her basically you'd only. She went because he's woman, I'm Irma things. Don't I'm sire said that, but what I did get from him last night is what is why you and not Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warm, what specific We are you gonna do differently than the to them, since your message is so similar what you know what qualifications do you have? I guess he said you know. I started a business, so if you like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth warns message and policies but you like the idea of a businessman in the White House. Then I guess you got somebody like someone who can make the arguments there making from a while pushing while, while back down. The argues that they dont understand. The world works, whether that sort of that's the. I think that the fair reading up I mean we ve had baser like a full day worth of debates.
Primary the other hours at a time and vague with the exception of clover jarring PETE tonight most no other candidates, not the top three has had any success, making argument for. Why them? Why not the others? And so The fact that comes out did not do that. Only does that mean that He's feeling rose and succeeded. He just doing exactly what I was most everyone else in the same year. He's as well, which brings me to the final question: do we think this debate? You know well during this debate both change the race in any way has this change, the razor reshape the race in any way. You know, I do think it's. It's notable that both Buddha judge and clover jar came out swinging last night and that's gonna get most attention. Today. Most of the headlines today are moderates fight back last night, which has been what moderates I've been trying to do for the last three debates and haven't really done successfully until last night. So I do wonder if it was a bit more of an important,
than usual leads a pretty for what's to come. We think we see the race has been the exact same place since the very beginning with acceptable. With worn rising from third or fourth two seconds: and now we're seeing. I think what the campaign of like getting for the first time we ve seen people land upon Elizabeth, worn who otherwise has been untouched and false notes with, I still think by any she was excellent. Last night deliver points, but there wasn't weakened you could see some cracks where people might be able to exploit it over time and so anything This debate is, can change the pole numbers, but I think we know more about how the cannons for thinking about the racing we haven't any point before now I say one more thing I sure, can I think the most important thing that happened. Last night with the most consequences race is not what happened. The debate it's the release of the Three countries have all night by that and would showed for anything
with the most money was with Warren, impede british edge behind behind, but was still what they within the twenties of millions of dollars in Joe Biden CO front runner, as you call him with less than nine million dollars, which is shocking stuff devastating. Like Joe Biden PATH, a nomination is to be able to organise and advertise in the soup producer states Is he because of his tiny recognition? His pal well known he's in the party? He has the abilities, broad base of support. His path, animation, called racking up debt, ranking of delegates and everything that happens after the first dates in right now. He does not have enough money to run a full campaign in two of the four saith, let alone forces, nor that it comes after and he has shown zero Billy to raise money online. So it did, he does not have
passing that a Bernice intervals with warrant, or even, if you put it it would have you refill his coffers, and I think I think that is a fundamental game. Traders can cause. The banks will have to make some very serious, very hard decisions about where he's gonna play. One he's candidates, hedges bit the head, often Ellen Darling, Ozzy Osborne spit it out on stage this thing would be over the last question. One who knows your weirdest friend skip climate thugs, climbed cheats, no reply now we're just gonna run. Everyone said John Mccain all at once. So the question I am a game and and then and then for global growth. Someone wait meeting. We had with Sarah Lazarus predicted that my group made John, your wife, Emily said that I'm Herbert has run either.
Always been true. That's always but you're either, all of our democratic. That was part of your speech at our wedding instrument that extra we're like going to turtle in a rather be confronted as everyone. We could we again we will have no part Thursday by Wednesday, and then we will see next week. Hudson America is a product of cricket media, the senior producers, Michael Martinez, arson, in producer is Jordan Waller its mixed in by Andrew Chadwick Kyle circling as our sounded junior thanks to Caroline Rest, Tom you so mediator and came off production support into our digital team, Eliza Cone, Normal Coney and Yell freed in my will camp who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.
Transcript generated on 2020-03-30.