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“Rudy likes club drugs.” (LIVE from Las Vegas!)


The President admits to using the powers of his office to target Joe Biden and his son by pressuring the Ukrainian government to fabricate a scandal, and the Des Moines Register poll shows Elizabeth Warren leading the Democratic field for the first time. Then former UN Ambassador Samantha Power talks to Jon F. and Tommy about her life as a journalist, activist, and public servant.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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recruiter is the smartest way to hire post jobs for free at ziprecruiter dot com. Slash cricket, give us the credit for referring you at ziprecruiter dot com, slash cricket, welcome to Watson, America. This episode is our car show at the life is beautiful festival in LAS Vegas that we did Sunday night and after that, you're going to hear an interview that Tommy and I did with Samantha Power, who just wrote a new book education of an idealist, and that's it look at that perfect mix of Edm politics
and genocide exercise as you, as you know, that we did open for Post Malone on Sunday with a show about politics, and now we want you to hear it what's funny. Is we record before we left and by the time you've heard this will know if how much money I lost guys? We have some big news. Big news, crooked media is introducing our newest podcast America dissected with Abdul El Sayed. What is really up with Anti Vax Yrs? Why does group have such a massive appeal because I love and who does our health care system really care for in America, dissected host Abdul El Sayed talks about the forces beyond the headlines that shape the issues that matter for our health. The waves were failing science, the ways the government is failing us and what we can do to get it all back on track and he does it by breaking down these stories in a way, that's fascinating and entertaining. He goes inside the healthcare system and explore some of the most surprising and interesting facets of what makes our system not work. What makes our system work and is river? I know I listen to the group up, Sir,
which is just so entertaining, and I learned a ton yeah. It is that smart and it's not. The conclusion he draws is not obvious. I think the point is you just have to put all your data eggs in one basket American detected as a ten part series that explores what we're up against in our health care system and how we solve problems like this before, through rigorous science, incompetent government working hand in glove getting it done here are some of the topics that you're going to hear about on this podcast anti Vax Yrs, the cult of wellness, the high cost of prescription drugs, the Flint water crisis, the opioid epidemic, antibiotic, resistance in super bugs, and the health system, listen to the trailer and subscribe to America. Dissected with Abdul Elsayed now on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher or wherever you listen to your favorite, shows it premieres on September 30th so subscribe. Now. Is this exciting to cut above the other pots. Also national voter registration day is Tuesday September 24th, which is
good, because there are elections happening in twenty nineteen as in November. Fifth. Consider this your reminder to make sure you're registered to vote there's an election year you. It also means we're almost a year away from the most important presidential election since the last presidential election. I feel soon to be Trump at the ballot box. We've got to outwork him and out organize him, and that starts with registering people to vote. We're partnering with head count to hold voter registration drives across the country for the next week, so guys get involved. Two thousand and twenty is basically already here so make sure everyone in your life is ready for it by registering them to vote, sign up to volunteer. Vote, save America, dot com, volunteer, vote, Saveamerica, dot, com, slash, volunteer, enjoy the show What's up baby, I I've never seen so
many rolling friends of the pot in my entire life. How people? I don't can't hear it, but a lot of you were licking each others faces yay. Welcome to pod, save America, I'm Jon Favreau, I'm John Lovett, I'm Tommy, Victor, I'm Dan Pfeiffer. Even joining us here at the life is beautiful festival on this lovely Sunday afternoon, um quick housekeeping. Before we get into the news. We have now raised six Britain, ninety thousand dollars her fair fight, two thousand and twenty, who is Stacey, Abrams effort to fight voter suppression. So, as many of you know, we are looking to raise one million dollars by November fifth, so we need everyone to don't help out, go to
load America, dot, com, slash, fair fight and let's help stop voter suppression. How many of you I have no idea what the fact is. Is that right back? Thank you for your honesty, yeah. Yes,. We are in the Edm temp for those who are listening at home, so people have people have taken the wrong route. Alright, let's get news. We know you all came here for a lively discussion about impeachment, so here it goes. That is correct. Uh this morning? The president of the United States admitted to reporters that he used the powers of his office to target a political opponent in his family. Trump said that he did in fact talk to the President of Ukraine about Joe Biden and his son Hunter during a phone call that is now part of a whistleblower complaint against Trump that his administration has been
illegally withholding from Congress. Multiple outlets have now confirmed that sources within the administration that the President, an Rudy Giuliani, have been pressuring the ukrainian government for months to basically fabricate a scandal about the bidens based on hunters business dealings in that country. Then why did the latest scandal rise to the level of impeachment? And why does this feel bigger or at least more clear cut than some of other trump scandals around Russia and Muller and all that stuff. Well, let's be very specific about what Trump did what he admitted to doing to the world today, which is the President states use the power of the presidency to pressure a foreign nation in desperate need of foreign aid, to conduct an investigation into Trump's political That's not that's not good, that's not good! That would be the highest crime of the high crimes.
By Us President yeah that that really makes Nixon look like child's play right there somewhere next we're going around in graves being like what I was robbed. Why didn't? I think of that thanks, so I mean what is Trump's defense here and what's his overall strategy with the story, so there's. From strategy which is sort of the Rudy Giuliani strategy. So rude Rudy knows a few things one. You can't go on tv, We've had three martinis, that's real number, pretty July two, you can say literally whatever the fuck you want. You can make up anything about your political opponents in the press will cover it as part of a both sides. Discussion until forty percent of the country thinks that Joe Biden is guilty of something that he never actually did. An three of the Democrats will do nothing about. It will talk about that later, so there just trying to muddy the waters. I mean Trump understands better than most politicians do that
you win by going on offense at all times, so, if you're worried about it being accused of colluding with a foreign power or being accused of corrupt he's going to accuse morning doing the exact same thing, even though it's completely baseless, she just wants to muddy the waters until he gets there in election yeah. I know and also an can. You also just explain everyone, since this involves Ukraine like what it's particularly bad, for a couple of reasons that the President knighted states was withholding us foreign aid to Ukraine or potentially withholding us foreign aid to Ukraine unless they dug up dirt on political opponents right he's, basically holding them ransom. So I mean the thing to remember: Ukraine was invaded by the Russians in twenty fourteen, but the Crimean in Eastern Ukraine, and so the russian still hold like a bunch of their territory. The fighting is happening today, so this brand new president, this guy was just elected
desperately trying to get a meeting with Trump to talk about the ways the US can support the ukrainian government and he learns that Trump canceled a meeting with him you're supposed to fly to Poland to meet with the new president Zolanski and he cancelled it, Toledo covered the monitor the hurricane that was happening at the time? Really golf course, just let him play golf and then they learned that this big a package two hundred and fifty million dollars of military aid frozen, and they have no idea. Why? Usually Republicans and Democrats support this aid, so these guys just got invaded. They know that trump. Is this weird relationship with Putin and they're trying to figure out? Are we just get cut loose here and thrown to the wolves is Trump going to tell his buddy. Do what you want if we don't dig up all this dirt on Biden so like there in it, verbal position in a really dangerous neighborhood dealing with Fuckin', Rudy Giuliani, threatening them every other day in Trump's bullshit. One amendment to what she said- that's really important is Trump is not actually asking him to dig up dirt exactly that manufactured during the last Trump
two thousand and sixteen is if he can or did an investigation over his opponent, then he I could see Michael both correct it's sort of it's the you're, a puppet strategy from the debate where Hillary Clinton does a long speech about how Trump is in the thrall of putting in Trump just yells you're a puppet and the correct yeah. It's a it's important, because if the Ukrainians really wanted to play ball here in give trump what he wants like in, there was something there that we could maybe do that. But from the Ukrainians perspective there like, we don't have anything on him. So, in terms like no, I need something on him and they're. Like I don't know, what do you want us to make some shut up, and he said yes, of course, you know make something. Oh I'm sorry, I was not being clear. I'm Donald Trump make it up. It does not to be true. I just need something something I need to nineteen you a something all I know is the Joe Biden's son once had some business dealings in Ukraine. That's enough for me. I don't work. That's enough love it so I will talk about how the media is handling this and how the media should handle this. There was a little headline this weekend that red already. Why trump?
Ukraine scandal could backfire on Biden and there was a couple other stories in other outlets as well with the media, handle this completely debunked allegation about right and family, and how should they bite and campaign handle it too yeah. I mean it's this strange fact of how politics is covered entirely through the lens of how the politics is being covered. The reason the story will reflect poorly on Joe Biden is that there will be stories looking at whether or not the story is reflecting poorly on Joe Biden. If Donald Trump is insinuating, something that never happened, even though there are many stories pointing out that that never happened, there will still be enough coverage about the fact that if it did happen or if there's some truth to it at all, it would hurt Joe Biden. Therefore, I will tell you the politics, despite the fact that it's not true, which is in another section of this newspaper, are
still hurting Joe Biden, because not enough people are hearing about how the story isn't true, because all the coverage is what I'm think about how even the sorry not being true doesn't matter, because the coverages of the scandal happening it's the earth. Goes it's the Burroughs, yes, yes, that's why they've got so then I just got more applause at this festival. Then will wane you mean you mean you mean our next guest. I'll tell you another thing: the Democrats need to stop. Acting like little Wayne need to show up I'm just sitting there like there was just sitting there uh.
This is going to be a repeat of twenty sixteen with the media. It sure, as hell seems that way. We really is an exact repeat of most of the allegations that the Clinton ministration 'cause, to be very clear. How we got here Peter Schweitzer, who is a republican operative, who wrote the original book Clinton Cash, which became the foundation for a lot of the stories, booklet and wrote a book about job about chicken politics with specific about Joe Biden, Ann Hunter bite in the New York Times. Stenographers of record wrote a story about that then Giuliani Leap, onto it and now we're having conversations about it, and so we are pretty much headed that way. I think it's important for Democrats to take some lessons here from what happened in twenty sixteen one of them is. We can't trust the media to solve this problem for itself, like all the coverage dynamic it's talking about is a tremendous admission of impetus, e from the media. They're saying yeah, we know it's not true, but we are not powerful or credible enough that tell people that. Therefore, this is a problem
in there and they're worried about balance always like. If this is going to be here Trump scandal, there has to be something on the democrat side. That's wrong. I think the problem for my craft, and this is true in how they how the media treats biting, and it's also true and how Democrats are awaiting the media to takedown trump. Is that the debt, the democratic too many of us believe in the media zone mythology of itself. We are really waiting for this idea that too ink stained wretches who look a little bit like Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman can takedown a president, but that is that there is. There is no silver bullet or smoking gun coming in the New York Times or Washington Post is going to change the pickle dynamic. The only question is what are Democrats going to do with the information in those papers to convince go to change their opinion, and we should. We should say to that is correct, but since you brought Bernstein like the report, we know all this, not because you know that administer Asian release the whistleblower complaint, we know this because reporters from the Washington Post,
the New York Times the Wall Street Journal, have been doing incredible. Reporting about this, it's more like what love it says, which is is always the incredible reporting of many journalists on a scandal like this is then you know balanced with some Yahoo, in the analysis section of the paper writing about how this is also may be bad for Democrats yeah, I mean that's. The frustrating thing is that I think by any objective measure the fact of a president calling a foreign country and in holding ransom taxpayer dollars military aid until they manufacture some dirt. On a political opponent that is a bigger deal, a bigger stir,
more than anything Joe or hunter biting could have done. Yes, even even though there is no evidence that they did anything like that. That waiting we've not gotten that waiting part right. It is it's like five crimes in one mean, is it like? Not joking around president committed multiple crimes, it is the largest abuse of power. It was, we said it makes everything. Nixon did pale in comparison, but because we are so funny broken in the brain because of trump or treating it like just a normal trump scandal. Yeah- and I think it's also- I mean in democrats- have to do this as we continue to push the story and talk about it more and hopefully impeaching which will get too, but it is trying to make people understand why this is such a scary abuse of power like today, it's Joe Biden, son, but if we have a president who is going to use the powers of his office, the vast powers of the presidency with all the resources he has the money, the power everything else to
go after anyone, he doesn't like anyone who's disloyal to him. Anyone who disagrees with him he can target any American anywhere with powers of the federal government, just if he doesn't like you, if it's for his own political gain. That's actually that's what's at stake here. I'd also, yes- and it also add- you know this- isn't now a congressional investigation or journalistic investigation into what happened in a previous election. Did trump solicit help in twenty sixteen from the Russians it happened in the Trump Tower meeting in the election that already transpired. This is ongoing. He is seeking the interference right now he still inside the bank, and he thought he practices I tested it backstage. I thought I'd do better. You know what I don't want. It I don't want it now. I don't want it now right I mean that Trump made
phone call to the ukrainian president. The day after Robert Muller testified he gives so little Shitz what the media or the Democratic Party or anyone's going to say about his corruption that he was like yeah. Let's keep this thing going, let's run it back corrupt! Well, you get away with one conclusion: you might as well try another yeah. I think this sort of gave him the idea that all right, that's what I did. Oh, that was good I'll. Do that again, yeah! No! He I mean well now this gets our next topic impeachment, because Trump Basic has decided that, because he got away with encouraging and accepting foreign assistance in the last select and no one did anything about it and he wasn't impeached, he can do it for the next election and he can't do with Russia. He'll find Ukraine he'll do whatever country wants to help whatever entity country rich person, scumbag wants to help him win the election. He will seek that help. It doesn't matter because no one anything about the last time. Yeah he's he's a suicide squad right. So so, thankfully, the push for impeachment
intensified over the weekend. Among the democratic presidential candidates, among some if Congress, certain podcasters were angry online, so Adam Schiff, Congressman Adam Schiff, who yeah Adam Schiff, is never been cheered at a music festival like this. This is a first for congressman ship and I'm sure he's going to be very pleased. Adam Schiff, who hasn't come for impeachment, said today Sunday that this may well have crossed the Rubicon, so Adam Schiff is getting closer, even Nancy Palosi released it yeah released a statement. This morning he said Trump's refusal to let Congress see the whistleblower complaint will take. The investigation into an whole new stage. So like not super great but better than where she's been. You should comment. You should mention what
she signed off. Yes, he signed off yours in patriot it. What did you send that out? Thank you for your patriotism with the patriotism Especialista Little patronizing, I don't Then do you think we're finally going to see impeachment over this? Do you think we finally moved into a new a new territory here, make predictions John, but I will say if we are not going to open the future proceedings over this crime then there was literally nothing. There will be an impeachable offense right yeah. This is like, if you can't, like you, you can create excuses for yourself too. Now look into the Russia Investigation create excuses around obstruction of justice 'cause those are those are. My stress is a hard crime to prove in a court of law, but if you cannot do it over the President knighted states using the power of his office to push a foreign car to investigate his opponent.
That is abuse of power. That is the whole reason we have in vitro yeah. I mean Free parking admitted it online television thought of secret. There was the admission right yeah it. You certainly see like what was a republic Mitt Romney's like if it is. This is true, it is very troubling. You admitted it may turn on the television buddy. So again, you and I went through like various stages of grief regarding impeachment questioning the need to do it in the politics like. What we have learned is that the failure to respond to Trump means he will just continue to act with reckless abandoned to to be corrupt within unity, and he thinks he's invincible and like what are we doing? How can you possibly argue against punching back like doing fucking something to slow this out? Yeah I mean to me this is very simple, where the Democrats need to go from here right like they don't have. Obviously you can't impeach him
based on the news reports themselves. There is a whistle or complaint that was deemed urgent incredible by a Trump appointee by the inspector general that Donald Trump appointed. So Democrats tomorrow should go out and say we did and the full whistleblower complaint immediately. We will give you one day, two days three days whatever you do not in that over, we will start impeachment proceedings the next day and we will impeach President for obstructing Congress. I don't it's not that start here. This is not something where we wait for litigation. We wait for the courts, we wait for months and months like the longer we delay the more a whole bunch of other stories will fill the media cycle and will be on to the fuckin' next thing for one week. Everyone needs to pay attention for this one thing for one fucking week and go out there and
we demand the whistleblower complaint right now and then we're fucking impeaching his ass after that yeah I mean you know the moral case for impeaching Donald Trump is clear: it's been clear for a long time. The political case is the one that has not been successfully made to a lot of Democrats in part because there's a lot of Democrats who refused to make that case. There's this chicken and egg problem over the american people. Don't support impeachment, so we're not going to talk about it, but they won't support impeachment until you talk about and what that has led to the situation in which Trump's crimes exposed by Muller exposed exposed by journalists over the past three X house by Trump exposed by Trump himself, via a tweet and press conference in speaking in front of moving helicopter blades, because nothing can be good, nothing and dot as a kind of at
not to have a list of impeachable offenses and yet because it's all old news doesn't galvanize people took this, is this could be it? This could be at. This does feel different and feeling different is important because we're not just making a legal case we're making a political case, and so what John saying is both legal and political it has to. It has to feel like a spark has been lit, and otherwise we will miss it also like, everybody knew about the Russia Collusion allegations Fication in more like the country was well educated on that, no one, not single voter, like 110Th of a percent of voters, know about this latest story in what's happening in the Democratic Party, it's incumbent upon us to make sure that all of them know about for this election, and I think the political case is is so clear at this point, because there is this worry that because impeachments, not popular the re It's given teaching Donald Trump without the Senate. Removing him is too great for the fact that impeachment is not that popular yet, but also John,
addition is unpopular in the context of the molar probe right, like that's a whole different thing now. So what I was going to say is: I want to find voter out there who this is the voter. No, I was going to vote Democrat in two thousand and twenty, but then went ahead and impeach the president for using the power of his office to target a political to pressure, a foreign government into targeting a political opponent. So I'm sorry, I can't do it anymore. What you know impeaching him for doing that for abusing his office and and pushing Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden son that read it for me. I can't vote Democrat anymore there's. No, who the fuck is that person there's? No, Lou Dobbs, no two points on the politics the first one is. We have to understand why successful politics on this means there's not going to be a situation where impeachment hearing or revelation a smoking gun fundamentally changes how the electorate views this there is going to be forty percent of voters who are going to be with Trump, no matter what absolutely so. This is
moving people on the margins are. There are small other handful of voters who, if exposed just to the information that would come out, each hearing, will be less likely to trump in that as a political success like. That is that it's going to happen also not to be a total fucking nerd, but like this, this decision, this policy decision or actually a pretty big deal. It's not like Trump was like hey. I want you to book a bunch of rooms and one of my hotels and sort of Monday in corruption he's making decisions to benefit his political future about giving two hundred and fifty million dollars in weapons to a country. That is, the war with Russia and a very low grade and he's like that's playing with some fun fire yeah he's he's saying he's jeopardizing us national security for his own political gain. That's what it! What he's done many times in the past thing like you love your thing like could have when might we be there like? We don't know we do we all have agency here right like there is, there is a list of democratic. House members who are still on the fence who have not come out in favor of impeachment or opposed it. Nancy Pelosi still has
out of control over this herself she's. You know been against it so far, but hopefully is wavering to now. But we do I have to just sit around call your if Congress there is out there, you can get this list and aware of all the outlets have them of who is who's, each man who's not who's, still on the fence, every member of Congress who still wavering Flood Nancy Lucy's office with calls. If you believe that this is important- and you know maybe we can actually get this done. So I think the other point on the politics here and I think is important- is Trump's. Election did something to America right. It awoke a group like a generation of apple yeah. You know what it did that we're talking about politics in the Edm festival. That's what it did. I use I mean that's weird: she this happened and that's it. That is exactly right. Well, there are people who thought they could sit out. Politics no longer think that, and they got often they work their asses off in twenty eighteen and quit they in March they protested in outdoors. They voted in the quest for the Democratic Party has been, will it be
or the vessel for that righteous anger in answer right now is no, it is no on impeachment it snow, picking up an assault, weapons ban it. They have to understand better politics that, for Democrats is not always which persuade rible voters going to get in which people are going to take off their mega hats. It's are you excite and inspire new voters are going to get active as- and there is no question in my mind- is tricky as the politics are- that that is the better political path. Here is one that's going to make people inspired to fight for Democrats, not the opposite, excellent, all right on that note. It's time for game now. It's time for Okay, stop the roll a clip and we can say, okay, stop at any point to comment. It's fitting that we're doing this in an Edm tent because it seems like Giuliani, the former mayor of New York in current spokesman for divorce has been on.
It has been an club drugs during one hundred percent of his tv appearances on behalf of the happy half of Donald Trump, during he's in for minute interview with Chuck Todd. In fact, Rudy drank five bottles of water. Anyway, Rudy had a meltdown on CNN, because Trump was constant, listening foreign interference in an election again, let's roll the clip. Did you ask the you Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden? No, Actually, I didn't, I asked in Ukraine to investigate the allegations that there was interference in the election of twenty sixteen by the radiance for the benefit of Hillary Clinton. For there already is a paper outlining anything about Hunter Biden. You never ask anything about job. I only thing I asked about Joe Biden is to get to the bottom of how it was that would sankoh who was appointed right, dismissed the case against Anthony. Did ask you crazy, look into Joe, I, of course I did.
No, you son of a Bich Chris Cuomo, ask again yeah yeah in three seconds. I still haven't watched this whole clip yet, but I thought it came like much later in the interview that he did, that was the fastest reversal in the history of cable. Television. Rudy always looks like he just surprised himself. What have I done? He drank from the wrong chalice didn't know, I didn't ask him to look into the allegations are related to my client, which NJ involve Joe Biden in a mass driver scheme. Not unlike what he don't get, I didn't ask about Joe Biden. I asked my client, which would usually involved with Joe Biden in a massive bribery scheme. Relatedly Chris Cuomo cannot Steve how like what good lucky. He has right now you've got this look on his face is like oh man, I got him didn't I and I didn't even really do anything.
I stumbled my way into Being Woodward here. Rudy. You explain to me how the kid got One point: five billion dollars. I have no point shown by launching applications, but just be careful what you say. I thought you little coaching yeah life coach. This is the there's a point in every Chris Cuomo Clip. Where he says something like that, where it's this sort of like it's like that, like Walter Cronkite, but like ten percent twords cold, that makes sense, is like little off whatever Gymnastic bring a book at Joe Biden, you said no, then he went on to say that you did ok. So I did Chris Cuomo gets what happened. It does.
Like in all seriousness, to speak to sort of like, were the journalists miss this, which it's not the admission of the crime? It's getting caught lying about the crime? so we immediately gone to the gotcha and said the what he got him for right. He could have just been like all right, so you just admitted what I asked, which was that you did. You ask them to look into Joe next question we're going to be more most stand, but I feel, like he's, allowed to be surprised, self incriminating her life, so you say: you're, not a como Stan. We know you follow on Instagram, always like it. You follow his work, Deadlifts and thirst traps for days, people check that shit out a lot of a lot of lot of Tommy V to vietor heart emojis. Chris Cuomo Instagram. I comment on all of them first, so I wanted to start what I'm saying I don't want to leave. Yes, you are. Why would I have you on their bias? Knowing that would have this kind of conversation, because it is sad to watch what happens? Ok sounds,
I think. Rudy has a cop in that he naps in on the CNN, set between hits this is really we're reaching the productive part of the interview this area here by us. Now, I'm not biased, not just its role, it. Ok, Edward Toys. What happened to me, I macello you, you were telling me that crimes, okay, stop. What is a cell of meanness? Can I don't know it's like it's like? We quickly went from admission of a crime to why everyone hates cable television, yes like in, like in like a minute just like that, a rubber and glue stuff happening yeah, exactly ok,. And that's: ok! Stop back to you, John Thanks, John. Alright. Let's talk about two thousand and twenty and the democratic primary uh. It's happy.
Seventeen democratic candidate spent Saturday at Iowa's famous steak fry which wrapped up just as the results of the latest DES Moines Register Poll, were released. As you all know, we frequently tell everyone not to obsess over polls, but we make a very big exception. We are hypocrites yeah! No, we will do this all the time, but the DES Moines Register Poll is historically one of the most accurate polls ever so it is actually very important so Today's poll shows Elizabeth Warren leading in Iowa with twenty two percent. But that's interesting. That's interesting is that I thought that the Edm tents I bought the Edm Tent would have a bigger Yang component. We had a couple said: the blasio stands here too Elizabeth Warren's at twenty two percent bidens at twenty percent Bernie Sanders at eleven P, put a judge at nine
Kamala Harris at six with the other candidates at three percent in below uh. The poll also found that only twenty percent of caucusgoers have completely made up their mind about the candidate there supporting Dan plenty of numbers to dig into here. Aside from the horse race numbers that I just mentioned, what are the big headlines out of this poll? For you I mean. Obviously the biggest headline is Elizabeth. Warren is now in the lead in the most important thing is like a bug in Warren Rally here, Elizabeth Warren being in the lead of the most important primary is, it is a huge headline. The other headlines, you point out, I think you're important, is, is still very fluid, most I have not made a final decision about who they're supporting a very open to a wide range of candidates. I also think that really interesting that the candidates who have spent the
money on tv in the last few weeks, Joe Biden, people to judge and Kamala Harris, had gone down or stayed the same in the polls, and I think that's an interest. It's interesting. That says about how the people who are consuming the information around the race, yeah Tommy, where your big takeaways here I mean obvious. It's good NEWS for Warren and it seems like she's not just like lurching ahead because of some sort of you know little surge, but this methodical building that I would be excited about a fire. Her team, though you know eighty eight percent, her supporters said they might somebody else which is just speak, the fluidity of the race I also I think it's a big deal like this big paws on that, because we should talk about some challenges that Elizabeth Warren faces here. Even though I know people in the crowd have a certain feeling, eight percent as well. I mean like you yeah, you worked at I or for a long time. It does feel like we're in almost October late September seems like it's a big number of people who
we're still making up their minds. It's wide open look in October of two thousand and seven Brock Obama was in third place in Iowa. He won in sober of twenty fifteen. Hillary was up seven percent on Bernie and they basically tie so there's a lot of room for the numbers to move around here. But you know like that. Never worn would worry me a little bit. Uhm biting law support generally, but he Supporters are a little more committed than Warren's, but they're less enthusiastic, so enthusiasm does count for something yeah. It is yes, it does count for something, and I was like that means you're more likely to volunteer, or you know, get out there and do stuff for the other part like notable headlines, I thought that up pull for Bernie Tough Poll for Mayor PETE, but those are definitely like. You know there is a chance that this thing is going to move around a lot.
We should. We should talk about Bernie a little bit in this poll 'cause it was. I was a little surprised by how much Bernie had dropped by the last between this poll in the last poll he's thirty seven percent unfavorable rating, which is one of the highest unfavorable's of any of the top contenders. This stat was very interesting too. They pulled up people who clock is for sanders in two thousand and sixteen Elizabeth Warren is leading among those people who were Sanders supporters by
Thirty five to twenty something, but which is very that was surprising to me too yeah. I do. I do think it. I think that there was a we talked about this on the on the podcast a a few times when the race was just beginning, which was there was this question around Bernie Sanders, which was what share of his vote in twenty. Sixteen was a truly pro Bernie vote and how much of it was an anti Hillary vote. It turns out there's a substantial portion of it. That was an anti Hillary, but that doesn't mean there's not assist. I substantial constituency for Bernie Sanders in the democratic primary, but I do the
that's revealing any other, the other faster. This, too, is you know if Elizabeth Warren is now going to be in the lead, and I why do you think that comes with scrutiny, and I do think that scrutiny is ultimately good. The truth is, we've seen it in the debates. There hasn't been a concerted effort to bring Elizabeth Warren down from other Democrats yeah. You know she's cool sort of had a good smooth run for a while, and you know we're putting these people through their paces. We've seen Joe Biden face a lot of scrutiny and some of it is handled well, a lot of it is handled poorly we've seen careful we've seen in. We see that happen to to Mayor PETE to other candidates. We've certainly seen it happen to bad right out of the box, and so I think it's important as we're kind of running these candidates through their paces. That now is with Warren, will get. I think, some front runner treatment and we'll see how how much this I do think Warren's rises is obviously most is, do most almost entirely
to her strategy in the power of our candidacy. But it does speak to the strategic error of the other campaigns so for the last few months, bite it in Burney fight each other Biden and Kamala Harris fight each other, and no one has been willing to go after those with ornaments in part, because I think there they're a little bit scared of it. I think it's because she's been she's had that she's been the most popular it's the hardest to go after her. Now those campaigns are reaping what they are something 'cause they've, given her a clear path for six months to build a strong basis, support among particularly college educated white voters, it is, come out of very clearly come out of burn, space of support, and it's about a mirror pizza port who went from he dropped five points. Pull as his name recognition went up and he was on tv and we see the cross tab to the poor with three, but it's pretty safe to assume most of those votes what it was with Warren. So the key thing is really interesting to me because they did favorability ratings. Elizabeth Warren has
highest favorability rating of anyone in the field. It's like seventy one percent and then, the number two with the highest favorability rating is PETE Budaj with sixty nine percent nice. I was hoping to get that but despite despite him, having a sixty nine percent approval rating among Iowa caucusgoers second highest in the field he's only at night, percent among support and it, like you, said it's down five points from the last poll. What do you think? That's all about, I mean I think it's like this could cut both ways for them. They just hired Thirty more staffers. They just open. Twenty offices, they've been on tv running, pretty significant bias since early September, so I would be nervous that I'm not able to gain traction and gain supporters, but the favorability thing is important in like Iowa, where there is a scenario where you go into your caucus location, the
we really wanted to caucus for isn't viable because of the way caucuses work. So you have to go to a second choice and Mayor PETE is well positioned to be that second choice. Now the thing that's clear from the pole generally is that all voters care about is electability whatever. That means they just want someone who could be Trump. They don't really care as much about Prince is on issues. They just want to win, and so I think, maybe if I were sitting in literally every campaign office thinking about it is my best electability argument, and how am I going to make it every all day I mean I work for the next several months. Yeah and look again because you know electability is been as as a marker for success has been criticized widely, but you know in this poll they ask people to define electability a bunch of different ways. Some people define electability as the candidate who can excite the most new voters. Some people say you know: how can we get more
photos over so there's many different ways to define electability but again, having a case about why you are best positioned to beat Donald Trump, whether you're Elizabeth Warren here, Joe Biden, whether people would judge or anyone else seems very important to voters who you know priority beating Donald Trump, more than almost anything else. In poll after poll after poll, I would bet in Elizabeth Warren's headquarters. They were unhappy with that poll. Think they pretty much would preferred it to be biting twenty four Warren, twenty one. Sentiments everything in politics and you want to peak weight, and so now Smith Warren is going to be to by many in the media as the front runner, I don't know, so that's accurate or not 'cause. It's a winning Iowa is not necessarily enough to win the nomination, but now it's going to come with more scrutiny, so hurricanes got a few challenges ahead. How are they going to do that? Screwed, because all the other candidates are going to come after her in some way shape or form the media is going to be tougher with? Are you know The point should running with the wind it or back for six months. So now what's going to happen next, the second thing is
are they going to. How are they? What is their strategy for keeping that momentum going right for the next many months is we have to get to get from October to FEB, yeah before anyone pass about. It is a long time, especially in the Trump era, where every day feels like a year and then the third is I still think the the biggest hole Candidacy is she often it's like Donald Trump was never elected. She her campaign is about accurately corruption in our political and economic system that predated Trump, but there there's something very unique about this moment about the specific threat we're in right now. It is evident in what we're learning about Ukraine, and I think it will be proxy for the electability conversation about Liz Warren will be. What is the story about Trump? moment and how we get out of it, and I think that is the next. The next turn of the wheel for a campaign. Yeah, I mean to your point, then, Obama? Never let in a public poll in Iowa until New Year's Eve, two thousand and seven in the caucuses run the third right so
that's that's when you want to pin those four days before going to hard to get there. We are scared, she lists, and so, like things great of the Hillary Clinton campaign out time. The other side of the ledger for Warren is, like I spend some time with her team in Iowa, and they are fucking, fired up and committed in building a really sophisticated patient to capture that enthusiasm and translate to votes. The other I thought notable number in the poll was Kamala. Harris sorted remained flat and that's not a good result, but it was actually better than I because she hadn't been to the state of Iowa in thirty seven days and in some ways like she's got the most like the best political athlete in the field. At times, she's at her best, and I wonder if she just said she's fucking moving to Iowa, she was caught on camera, saying that and so check out. That kind of thing work what's the history of, but I can't it's moving tie, will literally moving, does not work well, Chris Dodd move there and roll this kid in school and it didn't end well, but if she does
you gotta get make all new friends, so your dad cannot win like, I think, a delegate yeah. It's not ideal but, like, we'll see like she's a competitor, she could you know she. I don't think her story in this race is over. No, I do think I mean she lost a point between this poll in the last poll and her unfavorable ratings went up a little bit too, which was which was weird to me, but I do think like Kamala, moving to Iowa and spending all her time in Iowa meeting voters like look it's uh. I think it's uh that when a system thing in this poll for for calmly Harris for cooling Castro for some of the people that made the more high profile attacks on another candidate, in this case, Joe Biden there on favorability rating went up. So there is a cost, see you for making these end by the way, and that's not just like people attacking Joe Biden in the history of democratic politics in Iowa.
It is consistent that when you were the one who starts going after another candidate, it ends up boosting your on favorability rating. It happens all the time everywhere. You know it's interesting, it's just a dance point, I'm just thinking about it that there is this question like what what what is her case against Trump is in itself, not not the economic and and and- and you know, political corruption that led to trumpet against what Trump represents an and one of the ways I think she's tried to kind of address. That is by being first to the gate. She was very. She quickly responded to the ukrainian
scandal by saying that Congress must impeach and if they fail to do so, their complicit- a very big word to use. But there is something even beyond that into it in addressing the kind of pain and cultural rot. Anne Anne toxic politics that allowed someone like Trump to rise. That is missing. That goes even deeper than just having a kind of she has a policy answer for Trump. Now right, he should be impeached. We should take that seriously, but she doesn't speak to that deeper pain and cultural problems. That would allow someone like that get to get to the presidency and it is missing, and it is important. One thing is one. Other development from this weekend is Cory. Booker's campaign sent out a memo saying that if he did not raise a certain amount of money by September thirty at the end of the next Fec filing period, he won't be able to continue in the race and so asked for as many donations as possible, and you think that's the kind of like F Kennedy sent that before is that the kind of thing that works,
I mean the way that Booker campaign did. It was unique, I think, first time any presidential candidate has ever done. This has been honest about it, just being completely honest, being very transparent about the money problems and putting sort of a deadline to it. I have almost no concerns that he's not going to make that number. I think he's going to raise more I think the challenge, for I think the timing is very notable. They needed to get that missive out before the didn't register poll which showed Booker at one. It was it he's three three did gain two point yeah but like not, and the conversation, so they had to get it out before then I think they will raise them. One point: seven million. I think the question is what comes after that right? You have sort of painted uh desperation in your campaign headquarters and how do you? How do you sort of emerge from that? I think it would be really fundamental question for his campaign. Yeah look. I mean, I think the one thing to take pull aside from the number that said so many voters haven't made up their minds. Is the vast majority
credit caucus goers now are not with either Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren, and so, where do those caucus goers go? Who do they? And so is there room for another candidate to sort of break into that top tier? Or is there room for Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden, sort of capture the support that other candidates currently have. I mean this is very important. That Tommy hinted at which is you have to get fifteen percent to get delegates, and if you don't get a fifty percent, someone else can get porn, and so there is a large number. It's not like someone is going to these candidates are running at three hundred and two hundred are going to get zero delegates and there's going to someone else. Someone else question. The question is thing that I put this in perspective of the larger nomination fight, which is we have this tendency because of our experience, the last few elections to believe that whoever wins Iowa becomes. The nominee when I became the nominee allow the when I would have came to dominate clear when Iowa became the nominee and we wiishu,
assume that is going to happen here. Iowa is is less and less representative of the larger democratic Party in the democratic Primary electric, where you get delegates in ever has been before, and so here in right is very important. So you matter like Obama, winning Iowa, unlocked a lot of the map for him, because there was a huge there's. A large amount of african Americans voters, country who went from Hillary to Obama play believe 'cause, the Bama one very white I where they believe he was there for electable. It is not ever that some candidate other than Joe Biden winning in Iowa, is going to have a similar effect right away, and this thing is going to move very fast 'cause, I'm within a month of Iowa? Most of the he is going to have voted in the democratic primary, and so it's I was important, but we also have to look at what these. What is this candid, these candidates paths to the delegates come after Iowa and that's the challenge of the Kamala Harris. So if you move to Iowa that means you're not in any other states in the biggest chunk,
Elegance comes from our home, stated California, where she's not going to be at some point: you're betting on momentum. Alright, when we come back, we'll have another game, platinum, Roger by Tommy John. At the time you know I'll, look, there's a lot. Sure brands out there that claim to be big on comfort. But if that were true, then why are five percent of men and women dissatisfied with their underwear quite a poll? They took their, maybe not as big uncomfort as they thought. My hunch is that they haven't tried Tommy, John's illusionary, underwear brand. That's up over one million live upgraded the lives. My life is better because I'm wearing comfortable and where life is beautiful happened. This is during a life, is beautiful episode at a Tommy. John doesn't just claim to be the most comfortable underwear on the planet. I don't know they actually have the stats to back it up like how about this number over seven million. You guys know that it's no that's the number of pairs of Tommy John Underwear, they've sold with ninety six percent of their customers, rating them with four stars or greater
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LAS Vegas. It's where America comes together, whether you're a middle aged golfer, who wants to cheat on your wife with a woman or college golfer who wants to cheat on your wife with a man whether you're, a bachelorette who is going to go crazy, which means Strip Club or a bachelor he's going to go crazy, which means get drunk start texting Ex boyfriends instagram, a picture of yourself making out with a guy from Provo with the hash. Sorry, not sorry and wake up to seventeen missed calls from your mother very specific, very specific. But let's Vegas is also in the middle of a desert. A lot of people over the last few decades, no american city is faced more dramatic effects from climate change. Then LAS Vegas. What are you cheering? The desiccation of your city. No city shows more clearly why we need to act. So, let's play what happens,
it stays in Vegas, mainly because you will most likely die here of heat stroke. I will be playing with my boys. Didn't mean to sound like okay shut up shut up this game is price. Is right, style I'll? Ask you each a question and you have to guess the answer without going over? Are you ready, ready. Question one Lake Mead supplies water to LAS Vegas recently because of rising temperatures, Lake Mead lost a lot of water in a single year. Without going over how much water did Lake Mead lose. Please put your answer in terms of red bull cans, how any red bull cans of water did. Lake knees, loot lose in a single year in a year. A million, a million red bull cans, Tommy; two hundred million two hundred million
red bull cans, two hundred million and one just kidding; no, that's a good move down. I love that one! Damn you've got it right. It was fun. Five point: one: two: trillion: cans of red bull; four hundred billion gallon of water in a single year. Come on Fabbro, I have no idea any sense of in there. I don't know, I don't know a know. I do know that. I don't know how big Lake Mead is. It's a start. Question to LAS Vegas is now five point. Seventy six degrees hotter than it was in nineteen. Seventy, in fact, it's getting so hot that, before end of the century, LAS Vegas is on track to have ninety six days over one hundred degree Fahrenheit. Ninety six days. How many more days is that then Kim Kardashian was married to Chris Humphries
start with you're right, you're, right, you're, right, sorry, sorry, Dan you're, up nine days. Ninety days you can, the crowd could help. Its price is right, don't forget to have your pet spayed or neutered three days. Fifty is John one dollar, so smart Johnny got it twenty four more days. It will be hotter in this city, basically a month longer and those two. We're married next question: I thought they were going to make it up is ninety six super hot day. Sixty will reach temperatures of one hundred and five degrees without going over. How many ten years of Anthony Lucci is that it again yeah how many days, how the one hundred and five degree days will Barbie
Scaramucci, okay, a triple mooch, a triple search: three mooches five mooches five mooches. How many were there? In the last year there were sixty eight smooches. The correct answer is six smooches. I know it says ten, but he was for ten days eleven, the seven days on Travis. How was your massage unbelievable right? Whatever the stakes are hello? Who was right. Swim got it. One of us get a parachute gift card, no bonus question of the six days that will be above one hundred and five a certain number will be off the charts, meaning our current heat index has no way of measuring how hot it is exciting.
As you found yourselves in the Edm tab yeah, you guys don't care. How many days do you think that is and please these are in the number of Carly Fiorina vice presidential bids, how Three days will be off the charts hot expressed in the units of Thi arenas going five thousand and fifty Tommy go one thousand two hundred and twelve, six you're? All over your all over that's good news. It will be seven full days of off the charts he'd, which is one. What are you talking about there? Are you pointing Dan said sixty six there's? No, he said 6p arenas. It's seven days, one fee arena, fuch all of you people. What did you? What is a theory based the hand when the teacher says see tomorrow and you point out it's fucking Friday,
I'm with the crowd, yeah crowd, get a crowd. I welcome at. I welcome at well. But that's our game. Daniel one parachute start coming your way, exciting broad. By talk space, we need someone to talk to person who can support us, the rough patches or even the everyday ups and downs of life. That's where talkspace comes in talks is therapy for how we live today. Talk space therapy makes taking care of your mental health more affordable and convenient than ever before, simply provide your preferences. European talk, space will match with one of five thousand plus therapist the very same day. Send you therapist, unlimited text, audio picture or video messages from anywhere at anytime, no matter what you're going through you're, not alone, you know
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excuse me. Shame on you! Shame on you sitting there pumping those quarters, video poker. You don't want everyone listening here who thinks I'm just not gonna. You know- and I know where the best bet in that casino is where, behind the fucking line, it's on the crap, everything on red and the rule. Yep because you know we're on that. It come line guy. You know not you now that I'm putting the max odds behind that that, because that's that's that's what you do you bring your protector to the craps table, Perhaps love blackjack anyway, Dave taught me blackjack and over four years old, but if Grampa Dave didn't teach you with blackjack and you gotta pay some friends back, you should use the cash app put in the code, pod save or the code Spencer, the code Spencer, you get five dollars. Five dollars goes to donors choose. Did you a wonderful organization helping supply classrooms? All across the nation? I sent Sarah Wick money dad we talked about how I owed several quick wanting to be the cash at this time. I paid Sarah because she bought me a rap.
My hand at Walgreens and a salad, IP ipads error, but she didn't you know she paid us back. She had to pay you back for me, but I never use it for that. So you get the salads free because they took two fuckin' love sounds like too long. Free sounds good, sorry for hardship. They made a mistake and then they said they said sorry, you don't want. They don't pay for this ad. So I'm not saying it so anyway. Download the cash app and get salad wherever you'd, like Well, we are absolutely thrilled to have in the studio. Our friend are former colleague Samantha power. She is the author of the fantastic new book, the education of an idealist memoir and thanks for being it's great. Having a way I could not be happier this was when I was in the dungeon. Writing pod. Save America.
One day. It will be done and I will be with my friends on five save a man. Let me take a break from his books. I can listen to my friends yell of Yeah I'd be really emotional about politics. 'cause! That's really helpful. Can we start at the beginning of the book because I'll be like? I love this book for a million reasons. I feel, like I learned about your time with the UN 'cause we weren't working together anymore. It brought me back to the campaign and the times the less fun times in the White House, but. I was really amazed at what you did in Kosovo and Sudan as a journalist, and I don't really get it was hoping you explain how this works. So you are like twenty two? U four, the fuqing letter for the organization you work with, so that someone will You go to a war zone, so you can document atrocities without we having a job. You just say: hey, I'm a stringer kind of cover, the women's volleyball.
Getting that really important detail? Is that crazy to do something like that and not have an organization like the AP than the New York Times behind you? If something goes s well to it was crazy. There were a lot of people doing it. It was something about this kind of post cold war moment that wall had fallen. The Soviet Union had collapsed. There was all this hope for the international order, and then Suddenly there was this war in the heart of Europe, where men then we're getting rounded up because they were muslim or if they were in some other part of the country, because they were crowd or even occasionally 'cause, they were served and people sort of thought. Never again, I thought never again. If it didn't kick in during the cold war. Maybe we can be part the world order where this kind of thing doesn't happen, and so a lot of young people not knowing what else to do I mean I should say first I went around Washington and try to get a job at an NGO. You know I thought maybe I can help the refugees were flowing into other parts of Europe or even to the United States, and I didn't have skills
either and I had been a journalist in college granted, a sports journalist, Ann's, and I was in the same building that little thing tank where I was interning after college, was in the same building as you us news and world report. So I gotta kind of orange light to go over where the editor said no problem like, I don't think you should go, 'cause it's risky and if you talk to your parents, but if you go I'll, take your collect phone calls. Remember those where you reverse the charges and I was like yeah free phone calls, and then I realized I needed. As you note, I needed a credential and I knew This guy didn't want me enough where he was going to take responsibility for me. So the other part of this little thing take I was working is it was affiliated with an academic journal which subsequently the foreign policy magazine we know today, which is news journal or whatever it is.
Side and and magazine, but back then it was very academic, but it was also my office, my little cubicle or what it was down. The hall from the editor's office and when the cleaning crew departed one night and I really thought about it. I also thought should I include this in the book when we're in an ethically challenged period, in our political life some of the things, but that that yeah very clean so by the end of the book, yeah good people thinking about ethics while right today, everyone just like it, but still it wasn't the most ethical thing in the world to do. But I did take the station and I did really want to get over there, and I wanted to be a part of telling a story in the hopes that someone would read the story and do something about this horror show that was unfolding. Were you? How scared were you on a daily basis because it in the book you talk about your parents very concerned. You talk about sort of your colleagues back in the US being concerned, but
you sort of say at one point: you're like numb to you know: bullets whizzing by your head every day and all that kind of stuff like what is that? How does that happen? I think I'm numb to that Roger Cohen, almost drove us off their mountain onto a well mind area or nearly blew up and I've been we made it. That was Terry did. Luckily I mean you are a bit of a boiling frog, an eye at the beginning, and I think I right you write this book in a way to try to reach people at the different stages of their careers as well. Where they're thinking do I make a risk? Maybe not that kind of risk. But do I take a professional wrist? I leave my job. Do I go? Do this or that and and risks loom really large at the beginning, and then you sort of acclimatized, good or bad? I mean in a war zone. It's probably not in your interest to acclimatize too much. I mentioned earlier that there was so many other young people who were gravitate, ng Tord this crisis
and it in a way I mean the world just looks so simple in retrospect. Now from where it is today. 'cause, there was kind of one big war in Europe that got. Everybody's focus was on the front page New York Times and Washington Post all the time you could make a living, as lancer, and so when I got there might know my one of my best friends to this day, Laura Pitter was the stringer for Time Magazine and she's like come on. You know you can do it. Time is giving me an armored car if you know hop in and and but I moved initially to Zagreb, because it was peaceful and it had been through its war and then I just graduates are going to the peaceful parts of Bosnia and then slightly more dangerous parts, and then once I felt a little more comfortable and had senior people who were willing to look out for me a little bit
Roger you know, then I went to sorry one. That's when it was was really scary and the and the bigger issue was really you know. Initially, I felt we we could do some good and people really wanted us to be there. We were kind of ambassadors for our country slot small, a but by nineteen. Ninety five, after a couple years, there people started to get really broken hearted and just they they basically gave up, and they thought that nothing that we wrote was going to achieve anything. So then you had that weird cost benefit re thinking. Okay, it's getting more dangerous, I'm in the epicenter of the conflict, and it's not clear it's doing any good and that's why I you know I try to describe my thought process. I started to feel voyeuristic going in and and sort of forcing people to relive what had just happened to their loved ones. While having no faith myself that the present United States was going to do
anything. So you talk about when you first met Obama, so it's like right when he gets to the Senate. You have dinner with him and by the end of the dinner you on the way out of the restaurant. You basically just offer yourself up as a full time employee of his. What was it that a sort of got you interested in entering the political arena and be got you so excited about him, particularly that you sort of took the risk and asked him to yeah. Well, he had reached out or or Alisa friend of the pod part of the pod uh Alisa his scheduler then had reached out to say Brock Obama is just read your book he'd like to meet the next time you're in Washington, and it was very clear, was like when you're already here, you know like don't make a special trip. So of course I'm you know Brock Obama wants to eat. You know will meet with me if I'm intense, I happen to be in town next week and so
it was set up the meeting and then I don't tell this story actually in the book, but then Barack right, I don't know what Do you refer to him, say Obama, a lot more. We do. I know that's weird so, Obama you can and now that I know him much better. He must have just read the book or look at the book. And so I'd like to meet with her Sunday and then when he saw it on his schedule. He's like who the fuck said this like. Why am I like? I want to go home and watch sports center working, my display, you that's what he says most about most things on his schedule and most people on this crystal. I walk in Fuckin', my saying, hey this person and I walk in and the body language was just I'm like We can cancel it and he said we're now they have time. You know to really probe the depths of foreign policy and how we can create a smart, tough humane new way of doing business around the world, but I'm hoping over the next
two thousand and thirty minutes. We can wear it like a steak. Restaurant thinking, ok, not bring a drink, not ordering an appetizer and speaking even more quickly than usual, but then you know this happens with him. Of course 'cause. He is the product, so much of the product of his curiosity Zan. So fundamentally, since here when he gets into a conversation so four hours later. There is winding down when we get up, and then I think oh gosh this is a real opportunity to do something more than just being academic or an activist on the outside, you know. Maybe this conversation can be the beginning of something more, and so yes, I I to his office, and you ask why I mean I, you know, I think I felt it even from I was a war correspondent that I was practicing bank shot, advocacy that universe kind of throwing out there, whether an article from Sarajevo where
round massacre had occured, and I wanted to convey the pain of those families to people back in America or on the sidelines of why we should recognize the armenian genocide. Writing a column for Time magazine and I was dependent on someone powerful. Someone in power at least to pick up my calls and then do something about it within the system. And so my objective, through all of the different nations I've had as a as a journalist or as an activist or as a teacher in the government or as a diplomat, um active, has largely been the same. But it's been about. This is sort of the education. An idealist is trying to figure out. What's the best place to prosecute those ideals. Taking away the inefficiency of the middle man in a way, but then I got to the Senate. It was a blast I met you guys in the Senate office and I thought oh Well, I was I was going to follow up because it's clear from the book that you, really enjoyed the campaign
your time on the Obama campaign and really didn't enjoy the time in the Senate office, and I I mean I feel like little bit easier in that office than you did after reading the book for sure, but I saw felt. The same way too, like I had. The eight campaign is like the holy grail of this like wonderful moment, Anne you know the Senate office when you're sitting in the Senate. A little bit of a drag for a couple of years, felt a little small is zero dollars and ninety nine cents in your ready, I'm sure other people, other senators have more interesting times. I was spending my days pitching the Peoria Journal STAR about some Liheap funding, which is assistance for low income. We need housing right, you're like it feels a little small ball at times, especially someone who had been on the global stage like no. I don't know that I so much bit on the global stage, but I think it. You know what there was this real disconnect is it, which is what you're alluding to between his star power.
And we were able to do for anybody, and I think particularly because I didn't know Congress and sorry the executive branch, all that well at that point either. Although at least I interviewed hundreds of people in the executive branch for the book I'd written, but I think I went there thinking this is going to be a big shift from being on the outside that there was a. If I wasn't on the inside certainly wouldn't want when one have been on the inside of the Bush administration, but that from that perch then, who Obama was, but also given the checks and balances in our democracy. As naive as that sounds, I thought we'd be able to do things and whatever frustration. One experience on the domestic side and being in the minority and being a junior senator in foreign policy, especially where the executive branch is so dominant, where the Republicans really weren't willing to exercise accountability mean now. It looks like they were profiles in courage compared to the current.
Looking party. But you know it just- was kind of a lot like being an advocate on the outside and the idea that broke a bomb had who had so much to offer who had a vision. Who was very careful even So it opposed the war in Iraq to try right about this in the book to try to think through how we draw down but then fundamentally the disadvantage of being an outsider, trying to figure that out. You know yes, you're talking to commanders, but as a democratic senator you know, and so, I fell in the way. We were like a not very impactful ngo yeah that that that moment in the book, where your at the Foreign Relations Committee hearing with them and he's like passes, you a note or something you think it's going to be something like substantive and big and he's just like I'm sorry to bring you hear that you have to see this bunch of senators just blabbing on about nothing doing nothing, but that's how he felt so those committee hearings was not a great gig. It was
it in the pot. You know he would hate of all things and, as with many of us, do but, but I mean just his temperament in particular, just the posturing. You know the idea that you're there there under the constitution to hold accountable. You know that Jennifer Relations Committee? I mean which had been such a prestigious committee and that you're there finally dip to get your points across at it, and it's just a it's a it's like a pulpit, and in you just I mean what he said in that scene. In the book you know and or the scene in life which is reprised in the book was just you know, watch the senators pretend to be asking questions and pretend to be curious about what the answers are. Watch the witness who happened to be the secretary state at the time pretend to be responsive to the questions, but basically just give us. Same talking. Point she'd have given us. Irrespective of what question we ask, and I mean I don't mean this- is that's probably the most
it was a dissolution, but the the the the the the darkest policy part of the book, or at least at least the part where you're like. Where is the impact and now We see, of course, why controlling the house really matters and how you can block initiatives, and we actually see members of, Chris again, not if the Republicans would occupy their constitutional role would be in a much better place, but list to say, but you do you know you see the impact and it it aggregates overtime, and so again I think, with the benefit of hindsight I'm I look at my youthful self and, and you know the imaging ng or meaning I had before I got there about all that we would do and in a way I sort of set myself up to be disappointed. But at the same time I think it was a preview of how much less functional the Congress would become overtime. I think why fundamentally Senator Obama, despite at that first dinner, which I write about in the book,
you know me saying to him: hey, you know just got here, but any chance you might run for president. He like butt He believed that at the time, people don't people and the whole time for president really thought how presumptuous would that be to have just gotten here to bear We figured out like where the restrooms are and then to an like way and then, but I think in experiencing himself that gap between his star power and what he could do. You know Looking at the field in thinking that the risks that that the Democrat wouldn't win, I think he felt in all things considered. This is my time. One thing I love about the book. This is not a question. It's on the side. Is it like? I never really felt totally comfortable with Obama and it seems like you did what I do, which was remember in great detail every dumb thing I ever said to him or every time he was annoyed at me, and I also loved how fucking boring
Your anxiety dreams are while you're waiting to see if you're getting a job with the way I lost my keys, and I ran over a woman on the way to the Hillary Clint meeting it's like. I don't know I just it was nice to hear that you felt that way too. I think very exciting. I mean to give a flavor yeah sell red Sox fan. Yes, it was not a coincidence that one of my anxiety dreams, first of all, involved your former boss, Robert Gibbs, who tear I've, found completely terrifying and still do, and- and so the fact that gives was in my dream- was not something I anticipated and also that the venue, one of my anxiety dreams was Yankee Stadium and I'm set and there's the that that point we're all waiting, we'll Brock about run for president. Will he not and in the dream and I've, convey Obama that he needs a break from the action needs to take in red Sox Yankees, it's a beautiful sunny day. The red Sox are crushing the Yankees, like all the details, are right. In the dream
and then gives calls and says we tonight are going to have the mother of all fundraisers, an and if we raise the money, I think we will and it's going to be amazing, but gotta. Be there going to be a lot of people are going to raise a ton of money, says to Obama. He says, then we're going to announce if we don't we're not going to run for president and so Obama like put cups hand, over the phone he's like you'll get me there on time right, like yeah boss, you know you can be president. This is amazing. Back again where there was actual suspense about whether he would run. And then, of course we leave the game and I escort him and it's so vivid, and you know the overpass near Yankee Stadium and this, and that and the next I look around I'm like wait. We're not on the subway were on Amtrak, and so I go after the conductor. I'm like we're going to Manhattan right he's like no Albany, Ma'Am Albany,
you know, and I will what we is there- a stop on the ways like Albany Ma'Am, all that so we're gonna miss the fundraiser because of me, and but this is a course, a preview of my screw up on the campaign. Welcome to that dark moment, because your camping there they were, they were highs and there were loads on the campaign. Right I mean this amazing story a you know, you meet your future husband and in Iowa, and you go up out canvas saying with the the most the biggest collect enough brain power ever to hit doors in Iowa. Has son, Steve Austin, going off Eagle had ended perfectly love for you to tell that story. But then you also had this you, you said in an off the record, setting that Hillary Clinton after she had. I believe that she'd suggested it seems like that. You stay in the race because our if Kay was assassinated and you never know what's going to happen right, wasn't that it was more the about his face and whether he was a Muslim as well. I'm sorry you're right, you know yeah right so far, as I know he's right. As far as I know, he's christian yeah anyway, there's so many things.
So it was an ugly period, she's a monster, and in hindsight you are frustrated it was. It was a bitter campaign there's sometimes where campaign would do monstrous. Doesn't it seem like the double reverse? We never did. They were so stupid like doesn't it seem like the dumbest controversy ever in hindsight I mean compared using the oval office to pillage her country- and you know, encouraging a foreign government to hack the computers Americans and so forth. It does seem quite quite mild, but the same time. You know I did think Obama was trying to run a campaign front way, and certainly I as a human rights professor, an advocate who, in the book as well, emphasizes individual dignity and just to be, you know, an effect just part of the hate
specially the dollar we got stuff, like you know, with the elbow I would know, Ling said when I was with my computer and journalists, but when you're in that moment, though, it is funky. Well, you know I've been there too, I'm not here and when it happens, you it's like. No one on the outside who's criticizing. You fully understands how much you're punishing yourself and how many people you are so- and you also your dislike great phenomenon when these things happen believe that everyone else in the world is thinking about it talking about it, and it is something that sort, in you in your head. A lot of the time you know like it seems bigger to obviously, that doesn't house 'cause. It's your life, that's going through it, but it's fucking miserable married to somebody who knows behavioral science. I still you know castle yeah Catherine zeta the spotlight affect where youth. I think that the spotlight is shining down on. You know I mean we had. Yes, I actually cut it short a little bit in the book, but we had this argument
where the after I had to resign the campaign- and I really did- I was in fact leading the newspapers all around the world. I was in Ireland when it happened, certainly across Europe. This was a big story, because the campaign, this also seems quite quaint but the every little back and forth between the two campaigns as it got tighter as tored the end and it dragged on was news, and so I did have the experience of knowing done something bad people saying to me, including Obama. You'll, be fine, you know, will ride this out no problem and they just got bigger and bigger and bigger it's a castle like all of the spotlight for captain. You know: you're, exaggerating your belly button like this bullshit, like I'm everywhere, look at the newspapers ever trying yeah exactly mister Mister, rational actor on this earth, but he, but he we had just started dating. We have been dating that long and when finally, I got back
Mereka from Ireland, the fact that I'd suffered this scandal and against to completely self and for but in Ireland, where everybody was so proud of, my family was coming out and ever since I'd left as a child, I just wanted. You know just to be the yank cousin coming back, but but for them to feel that kind of pride and then it to end you know I had just had a drink with Bano Hunt for slick life was good. I was Icarus and then just blew, but we get back to me in a few days later. Eliot Spitzer is caught up in his, on much more yeah much worse and but the call girl with whom he was involved, the straw that broke the camel's back the investigation was there, was a to offer on the front page of the New York Times just after the scandal had broken, and I went to my stoop and I was finally beginning to think about reading the newspaper again, because the the attention to my thing had faded and their,
She was on the front sort of also explained that she was a good person, but the pull quote they had in the New York Times was. I am not a monster exclamation mark and I just start bawling like I've changed the way we talk. She took everybody's in cases like that's, not true, that's not true, there's the independent variable in the dependent variable, and we have to do. We really gotta study this in order to know before your thing. You know how much is this word and use in the lexicon and how much after and so we actually did this before and after buddy, but it was impossible because the use of monster in the coverage of my transgression was so intense. We needed wait a decent interval in order to do a proper study which we've yet to do either finding the love casts all I know I know so. You use sort of read this, but how did? How did your apology to Hillary Clinton go uh? Well, first, how did it come?
out, because I had tried to reach out to her and tried to reach her when we were still in the thick of the campaign and again when we pretty much thanks to Pluff New. We were going to win, but that we had to go through an awful lot of fur. Further primaries and votes and so forth to get the requisite number of delegates and I'd wanted to talk to her is one thing to send a letter, but just to so she knew that this had lost my temper, but those weren't, my consider feelings about her, and I mean I do been chastised by a couple. People on the campaign for in the interview is always saying. Hillary Clinton would make a great president, then pivoting to why I thought Bob was the right person for the moment and So anyway, it didn't come about in the campaign and then finally, Obama sealed denomination, and I really want to come back to the campaign. Think and of course there were people, like I'm sure, people we know and respect enormously, who who prosecuted the campaign
for Obama and and who are responsible for the strategy that that help the candidate win the overall election. But there was a concern that if I came back that the divisions, but in the primary, which would did grow a little better in certain quarters that those would be exacerbate, and so there was one group of people why going to come back of. You guys were part of that group, and I think there was another very vocal and very influential part that didn't. But the only thing I do, I can only control what I can control was to try to at least ensure that Hillary herself would not object in any real way. So, but I didn't know how I could get to her and it was proving hard and then meanwhile Kasich proposed after a very short time of dating uh. I was becoming dependent on him in this period of have job and wandering around hoping I'd. One day I would be able to go back to the campaign
and so my normal immune system to screw up my relationships had shut down, and so I embraced the best decision of my life and married him and at the wedding Richard Holbrooke put to, with his season negotiating skills, or at least the prospect of them and said how would you like it if I broker a meeting between you and Hillary Clinton, and that was the toughest, and yeah. Well, I don't know the the Taliban, but anyway so he set it up and I met with Hilary and you asked how the meeting went. It was proper, you know was I mean I think she really was stung by that did not just what I had done, but the perception that we who had same values in the same baseline agenda that he did it had gotten ugly, and I think she was disappointed, of course, that image you know all of the expectations that she you would have won the nomination. You know that this insurgents had come along
an and I think she she whatever she. So she wasn't yet the the kind of Lee Ation that became much thicker when we we all got a chance right work together. I think hadn't yet taken hold, but she was very good and she accepted the apology, and so I scrambled you know out of her office and I called or emailed a bomb and he called me back, and I said I, you know: I've had our reconciliation meeting. I think I'm good. You know if, if you're ready to take me out of the penalty box, I think it's okay to do that And he's like way what you had a meeting, how did that- and I said Richard Holbrooke gave it to me as a wedding gift he's like don't most people
toasters, the hell kind of wedding gift. Is that, but eventually it's as good as it was back on yeah well yeah, it's a tough campaign, one tension in the book that I think it is because throughout it is your this outsider. This advocate that goes into the system to try to affect change in in what tensions there may or may not be there and there's a great anecdote in the book that we really enjoy 'cause. We are part of it. Was this murder board? We did for you when you were nominated for the UN gig so excel for listeners back home. Board is when someone is nominated for position. You get a bunch of people together and you ask them the most obnoxious most difficult questions that you can think of in preparation for my future Senate hearing and not to brag. But I thought of the most. Do she hackish stupid
questions possible and then Marco Rubio asked it verbatim so patting my back. You were in the mind of Marco Rubio's, very it's a frat party and not very fun one, but remember that session, and I remember we were in this like weird, like trailer in the middle of the State Department, but I remember feeling like relieved when it was over that I got to leave that thing, because it fear that you are not happy and I a little bit like we were crushing your soul by making you do a dance in play game with this end it- and it's not like you- change your beliefs, but you two especially it was especially you too, because you know because, like there's a lot lot of like season people that Tommy and I helped in that period, were going to become ambassador. Something like ask them tough questions, but they had been around politics. Well in your this like pure, per person activists, you know the play by the game of politics and just like give these boo
it answers you're going to say the truth, even if the truth is complex and nuanced and we're like no new eyes, no complexity, stop thinking that was such a toot. And again part of the part of the education. It's funny because those stories we're telling or you could It could breed a sense that the Ark that I follow is one Tord, giving up on new nuans, giving up on the solidarity of campaigns or, and it's the opposite story. When I end up at the end of my story or even to this day, more idealistic, or at least more upbeat about the possibility for individuals to come together and to make change. But that was a dark chapter, because I did I had written more than a million words said. Lord knows many as an advocate and as someone who hadn't thought I was ever going to end up in a position of getting confirmed by the Senate and having never pulled punches and so suddenly
You know I knew that the Senate staffers on the republican side just had stacks of my writings, highlighting the most you know, sort of of conceived or or convoluted or just or just different perspectives. And then you all my friends. Coming together and what cast would do alongside Tommy's abusive form, questioning the cast knows that when people put an s at the end of my last name it should it drives me back. I remember being mad that he beat me to that you do it too so and he be like he laying Rand Paul and he's like its powers are going to be you get to the UN. Aren't you just going to be for some big treaty, some big, big treated like whatever a big old treaty, Miss powers and I'm like its power center it's power, you know, and I couldn't even in the murder board resist but
and I hated the I still hate the idea that you know the question you wish. You were asked rather than question. You were asked. You know in some instances the season people wanted me to renounce things, I'd written, but I still believe them, and so I didn't want to do that. So I tell the story in the book of the the sort of come comedy of this, but also getting to a place. I hope I've remained, which is now doing the Washington thing of just pivoting to some other cliche, but finding a way to answer with something that is, as I put in the book. Also true. So the thing I want to say is true, and I shouldn't say perhaps, but there may Something that's also true that I can, with sincerity and conviction, find my way toward, but the one of the more painful parts of the book is my back and forth with Tommy Vietor Slash Marco Rubio in real life in the Senate Chamber where he wants me to renounce the idea that America, when we let's say commit, you know it inflicts
collateral damage in warfare or you know how Kantana more we torture, people or whatever that there's a desire on the part of my team to get through, go to just say. Well, I don't really. I don't really believe that we need to apologize for those things. I don't believe we need to be held accountable and I said, but I still believe that we have to be held accountable when we torture and when we do other things and that to pretend, as if history hasn't happened, is mistake for for our interests and so I got to the place where you know all of you were just saying you just you know I wanted to talk about Clintons allergy after the rwandan genocide, and you know what we need to do about Guantanamo and torture and and all my whole team sort of. Their head in their hands and they're like just we're just trying to get through the day. This is not on the level they just want to hear themselves speak,
so I decided well what is also true. I love this country, but you know it's funny. It's like this country is also at when I was reading that part. It's evidence of how much the politics have shifted, partly because of Trump, partly because of every mails that if I was advising you today, I would say to go into that hearing and say: yes, we should apologize because we did torture, people, we have fun things up world and I think you could. I think, once it great point with the politics of the demo. Party at this point, with sort of what Trump has done to the media, an offense and all that kind of stuff. I think you probably get through right, maybe I don't. I don't know the extent to which the hypocrisy on the republican side, if we have that it would all, but if we had, if it is with the buzz about about anyway, persuading anyone anymore yeah. That's we have. That's if we have the bodies yeah be able to get you through it. But what I didn't want to do is announce that idea and right, and but I also you know- I did part of the challenges you know what those hearings is. You also want to create distance between you and the
resident and you get questions from left field about your views on things like gosh. What is Obama, think about that I mean I don't I don't want them to force him to be answering for something that you know he's trying to move away from and again I have the specter of Robert Gibbs. In my mind, don't screw up. Did you file so and I try to show that in the book you know what it's like to be part team and yet you know to have a set of views where you can express them internally. But if you lose a debate then or in a position where you have to defend the administration as a whole and and and for me it was just amazing that there was a president with whom I was a line so often, and I think, on balance that then made it easier, not not easy at all but possible, then to be put in position by Tommy and others in the communications team to go out and defense,
something that I might have argued against internally. But that was the hardest part of the insider outsider switch. So we've talked about a few of the darker times, but, as you said, you came out of this still an idea list at what point in the White House or when you're at the? U N, at the? U N, did you start feeling like you know what, despite all the bureaucracy, despite all the constraints, despite all the setbacks, and I feel like I'm, making a difference and I feel like the this is where I should be, probably on the issue of iraqi refugees when we're in the White House- and you know you just you- learn that you can either so nurse your bruises and bitch about access or Kovax as milk Tommy's in the meeting, I'm not into me And then you talk to Tommy Times like houses, stupidest meeting such
the time like I buy. Why was I even there and and again Richard Holbrooke, the late Richard Holbrooke? You know one point said to me: just just go where people are just go where they ain't, you know, hit it hit where they ain't and it turned out. That, with the backing of President Obama on a refugee policy agenda with the fact we're drawing down from Iraq? We could they significantly increase the number of Iraqis that we've added to come into this country meeting, promise meeting our responsibility having gone up and gone to Iraq and sort of ripped everything up, and we could do so in a way that in communities in this country, actually revitalized economies like in Buffalo New York, where there's a huge influx of refugees over the course of the last decade, and so would have this knock on economic effects, which of course, you know here about anymore and as these communities are crying out for the refugee program to be revitalized because they're losing that influx of vitality
and- and I just thought you know- everybody else is focused on how we draw down. And what do we do about Afghanistan and do we surge? And yet here is a discreet small, all issue area? And you know there are a dozen examples like this, but where you know uh officials in the Defense Department and in the US government as a whole really want to do something for people they know. You know there was all of this. Also human lived experience through these friendships with translators and people who risk their lives on behalf of the United States, who weren't getting into the before and so and then what was great, as I could just see, the the machine three of the US government kind of crank up, because this White House Signal was sent that this matter to the and present Obama himself would have the bandwidth to drive this. And all he wanted was updates on how it was going, but you know I think that was where I thought. Okay,
Just it doesn't matter what meetings you're in it matters. What you're able to achieve on a given day in the coalition's you can build across government, but I have to learn the lingo. I mean, and I tell the story of exactly we've all been purging ourselves for the last two one slash two years to try recover our ability to speak in Akron, the english language, but it was you know what I came to America as a nine year olds. I would be in front of the mirror and I was trying to drop my irish accent. I was trying to learn DRA and rbis in baseball, lingo and and Rick Slang and all the rest an while. I didn't stand from the mirror. Mercifully would none of us had the time for that? But I did you know I did feel like to succeed. You had to at least stand the currency, and there were these crazy. I mean all the gendered lingo, you know we got to we gotta go in open, kimono
so many at so many of the things are pregnant. What other well- and I was five months pregnant, so I heard myself say: hey we shouldn't be half pregnant, we gotta decide one way or the other. I'm like wait, wait, wait, I'm more than half pregnant like this is crazy. Why am I talking this way? There's a lot of lingo. Can I ask you something, since you brought up refuge you're, an immigrant. You write about immigration, an refugees you've worked on these issues, it does seem like it might be one of the fundamental political challenges of our time and into the future as climate change causes mass migrations and there's more places. Like Syria, where there's going to be refugees like how do we begin to change the politics around this issue, not only in the United States but all over the world, because you know we like that out, you know we have Donald Trump is a problem, but this is. This is an issue for so many countries and it sort of just getting at the political
alleges in so many different countries. Well, I'd say a couple things: we first seventy million displaced people today, seventy million I mean that you know when we left sixty six million. I think our last year in two thousand sixteen. So it's not like. We had cracked the code on this, but just give you a sense of how many people are in motion and desperate as we would be. You know on behalf of our families, if you, if it's conflict or if it's political persecution or if it's criminal violence of the kind you see in Central America, what would it be like not to be able to know if you could take care of your kids? You know what would it be like to have an aging parent who's, just a sitting duck in an apartment building, that's under siege in Aleppo, what would that be, you would try to leave you'd find you do you would just the the right to life, the the desire to just be safe would override all else and on for
only as you note it's become so political I gave an example. Earlier of the, I think, basically, the empirical thick empirical record of what, in this country the economic effects of refugee inflows. Been, and I tried that when I was ambassador as well as this was becoming more more caught up in it caught me off guard, I must say just how toxic the question of refugees be You know it started with syrian refugees and like every summer in refugees, a terrorist on Trump is saying, and but then it it has kind of bled into the question of of refugees generally so, but there is I mean the facts are completely on the side of what refugees have done for this country and for so many other countries I mean think of what to especially to get to the United States. Imagine just how resourceful and dynamic an individual who has made it
here is, and this is why I don't know if you know Hum D, the ceo of Chobani, I mean he describes any sort of looking around he's like I have this, because I'm hiring refugees and immigrants and people have just scrapped and scrape to I have the most dynamic workforce of of anyone. I know in the field, and it's not a coincidence that I'm then coming to to. And is now dominant. I I am you know I have this team of people who just want to be here want to contribute want to send money back to their family. So, unfortunately, one of the part of my education again is is the on the importance of figuring out a way to transcend fear, so, whether it's on a Bola or ISIS and the conflation of a whole religion with terrorism, I mean the craziness of what is propagated now from the list office in the land and on refugees and whether it's in the realm of
curity, which Trump is done, but also the the account you know of Trump's xenophobia is is rooted in the idea that immigrants and refugees are coming to take your job. So, even if it's not fear of a physical kind, and- and it's it really is all the evidence shows it's it's. That's not the case, of course, that the it's a complex set of factors that are causing jobs to even automation to come in and so forth, but what I, what I, what is hard is in the balkanized political but also the echo chamber, media environment is how do you get those facts in there? You know an you know: they've been is that show how Trump and I read about this in the book. You know how Trump used a Bola, which was his first in a really it taking ownership of a fear plus for given tweeting fifty times, you know is only in times and and he's you know, he's already famous in quotes, which is all he's ever wanted to be and and he's already got his
real estate stuff and his reality tv, but he's suddenly. He sees like wait, the more here, I'm generating the more I'm invited back on to Fox. Then people know me when people get scared and they want to turn to me more, and so I think you will have grappled with this in so many domains is how do we? How do we meet people's fear but again the facts? Our side, I think, are you know what I found on the iraqi refugee front, but also la on other refugee issues. Is our Miller very ended up being a wonderful spokesperson on behalf of this, and I mean across the board. You know this is just General Mattis, the favorite general these days to quote on different things, but just across the board because of how any refugees and immigrants. You know in the ranks of our soldiers, how diverse that is, but then- so because our soldiers had had the experience again of relying on iraqi translators and others, and just saying these are not only are these people not a threat, these people diffuse threats against.
And I wouldn't be here necessary. I do think that the the turn, because, even when the media does cover this, I think it's so often that we treat even for sympathetic. We treat refugees as victims, and so all everyone ever knows is that rarely actions of something and Social Services Y Es Hamdi's story is so inspiring and and stories about the troops and translator and stuff like that is because you see how resourceful they are, and also how they're, just like me- and you, like you, said like if I was in a house that was getting bombed with my I would do anything to run away from that. It's tough, though yeah, no What do you mean it's beyond uh, it's one of those beyond Donald Trump problem. We admiring the problem, we might be I mean? Wasn't the funnest at the White House where you'd say something you thought was very brilliant and then the chair of the meeting would say meanwhile, back at problem well, yeah, poor, Barack Obama would convene a National Security Council meeting. I would ask all his very accomplished very important seasoned advisers what to do, and they said mister problem. Mister Prez.
This is a devil of a problem. On the one hand, on the other hand, I don't know thanks give me a decision memo. Now you have a great act where Marty Dempsey the President's that they turn into it. You, the president, says, look. I don't expect us to come to a solution. Today, too, I think was a serious crisis and pretty tense. He says, will disappoint you there, sir. That was really funny completely one last thing, though, just on flight an refugees generally is what your total under investing globally and, of course, in the United States. Now, but in diplomacy, so one of the reasons that you're seeing more and more refugees is, as you note, climate change and the fact that people can't live in the places they once were able to live in. So there's a climate refugees, but also yeah, the resource is dry up and you get scarce resources and you get conflict that grows out of a fight over those research. That's more conflict that we're seeing, but the other reason where there's at least scope I mean come
We just have to deal with independent of all of this, but but also because of all this, but but there where there is scope for improvement, is Netflix or lasting longer. They are not being resolved, that's partly because more and more countries are getting in. The action you know as bad as the cold war was in those proxy wars. Now you have these multifaceted wars with the Saudis in the Turks and the Qataris reason Ann, so there it is, may be harder to make deals when you have so many actors around the table, but I could say we were, we were getting caught trying. I mean this this, you know look at these systematic underinvestment in our diplomatic or over many many years. The fact that we have almost more people in military watching bands in this country than we have in our foreign service acting as diplomats and yet how do conflict send diplomats. Roll up their sleeves, invest the time. Do the legwork try to play with Sentivan disincentives and then, if conflicts, if you could
shorten the duration at least of a conflict, then people begin to go home. All they want to do is go home right, right, ma'am, yeah, that's the other aspect of it right. It's not like they're like all great a free ticket to you know somewhere else. I they they their lives or their their families or their their family. Their grandparents and great grandparents are buried there. They most refugees want to go home. We need to do more at the UN level among all countries, but in the United States now call it out or diplomatic or actually just replenish, one of the reasons they wrote the book in personal way to try to make it more relatable for young people was, as you know, the morning after a Democrat takes office whenever that is hopefully in January, twenty one, twenty twenty one, if not before, but the moment that happens. It's going to be. Some
it's basically to our to our country and to our young people to get back involved in public service to be part of rebuilding these institutions. Last question for me and then I'll you guys have a lot of foreign policy to talk for the world as how do you do that because you know I've spoken places when I talk to young people, you hear a lot of maybe the best way to make changes from outside the government, because it's so broken and eight six, the cause of so many disappointments, and I want to make a change. I should be an activist, but I don't know of public services for me you're, someone who started off as an act of a start off as a critic. What can you tell young people about why? It's worth to participate in public service well again, that's kind of what my book is all about is all the things you can do from many different quarters, and and for me is a big adjustment and initially much harder to do it from within. But then, when you actually see the institutions of government working on behalf of people, when you see domestically peoples, health care,
people getting healthcare who'd, never had it and suddenly being free of that worry. When you see Brock Obama confronted with potentially one million people dying in West Africa of a Bola and suddenly fourteen cases in Europe and in the United States and him saying I don't care that from a bipartisan standpoint. People don't want me to do anything about this. We have to deal with this problem at its source and the privilege for us to get to get to be a part of helping him global coalition. Send military and US health workers into the eye of the epidemic and ended, supporting, above all, the work of the of the local people who are on the front lines, West Africa. But when you see that kind of impact, I tell the story of you know being very- broad, as we all are now certainly certainly even were in the tail end of the Miss Tration, but about the human rights recession around the world, which is part of what's, you know again contributing to the despair that so many people feel and I was so overwhelmed like cheese freed,
declining everywhere, including in established democracies, and this is even before Donald Trump and you know, but what can I do the Amber's cabinet, but I have that feeling of like what can one person do? And you know we wage this little modest campaign called Hashtag free, the twenty, where we chose twenty female political prisoners from around the world and we profile them took advantage of these tools and social media that are also contributing to so many destructive friends in our society, but also can do great good and we project the stories amazing women in China, Ethiopia, who's Becca, stand. You know wherever they've been arrested and often they're investigating corruption or they're, just speaking their mind, in China. They were speaking up against sexual harassment. I mean and then got jailed for that, and we just decided- let's just take a small slice of this huge problem of the human rights recession and we actually managed to do something in a bipartisan way. Us Senate, because we were profiling. Twenty women there were twenty US
female senators at the time, Republican and Democrat, they threw their weight behind this campaign. We were course only supplementing the work of the lawyers in the families of amazing women and took us time, but we got sixteen of the twenty women free or or sixteen of the twenty women were freed, and I think we played a contributory role to that, and you know, ratification, the sense of sort of exhilaration actually on the part of the junior with my team. You know the young diplomats, because it's so in government you, it's so rare that you feel close proximity to something so concrete that works. And yet my is full of stories where we do make a difference at a time when people are very skeptical. That government can, but I think I think yes, we have to learn from the invasion of Iraq and we, God knows we're going to have so much recovery to do after Trump is destroyed. Our alliances and cozied up to abusive regimes and so forth
But we have to also remember that for all of our all of the mistakes we've made from which we have to learn, but that that we, the United States, can be a force for good in the individuals. Prize our institutions, it's who. Individuals are who will dictate whether we are a force for good or for ill and so you know I really it's like your show either you have found a way to speak, to younger people and one of the messages? Is we need more and we need better right, need more people activated, and we need more rigor and more dictation in the way. All of us do our business and- and you know that's why I've tried to write a book that again appeals to young people and shows the sense purpose and meaning you can have an the actual impact. You can have if you're willing to be self critical, ideological, necessarily but but just rooted in problem solving.
You have written a funny brilliant honest, an very hopeful book, and so everyone please buy it. Please go buy it the education of an idea list by Samantha don't you dare go to the library like libraries were Pro library or not, but also by the by this book. You can see it. You can read it in the library if you want more books like this by the book and donated to a library thanks SAM guys, so much pod save America is a product of cricket media. The senior producer is Michael, Martinez are producer? Is Jordan Waller, it's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle segment is our sound engineer. Thanks to Carolyn Tonya, Seminatore and Katie longer production support into our digital team, Elijah Cone, normal yell, yell, Frieden, Milo, Camper, film and upload these episodes. As a video. Every week
Transcript generated on 2019-10-23.