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“Stockholm Syndrome.”


The President assures the country of his mental stability, Mueller hones in on obstruction while Republicans in Congress try to undermine him, and the Democrats plot their strategy to protect the DREAMers. Jon, Jon, and Tommy do the pod live from Stockholm, Sweden. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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our goal: America, I'm john- for ever, I'm John love. It I'm sorry, your it's great to be here. This is our first stop on our european adventure. In Oslo and Amsterdam and London after this, but uh it's been fun in stock home. How many people here are sweet It's good amount of food. How many people here are Expat American how many people here from other sundry european locales
All right, that's good! Very good. Nick could split split but in other places there's other place. You are there any axe. What about you one little bit of housekeeping for all of our listeners out there next week, Tommy is hosting his first live pod save the world show in LAS Vegas getting ready for that on January. 17Th tickets are on sale We have been road, Samantha Power and the filmmaker behind the documentary the final year, but the last year, the Obama administration. So if you guys are in LOS Angeles, please check it out will get you free if you're here not here, listening, let's start with the news, so I don't know what's happening in swedish politics these days, but over. In America. We are in the middle of a spirited debate about whether they man, we elected to lead our country, is Mentale and emotionally fit too.
Job headline in Saturday's. New York Times reads Trump defending his mental fitness. Says, he's a very stable genius that is very exciting for us of course, Donald Trump's mental fitness is good. Forget who can forget when Albert Einstein famously wrote that letter? That said, I am a genius and when Newton the apple hit him in the head and he said I'm a genius very stable genius, I'm a very serious table. Yes, so obviously, we've had this debate since Donald Trump ran for president, but the latest kerfuffle is taking place because of a new book by Michael Wolf called fire and fury where he interviews most of Trump's advisors, friends, an family who will come to a simile
conclusion, which is that the president is sort of an idiot now, there's been a lot of questions about whether all of will's reporting is accurate or embellished, but I guess my first question is how much of it is surprising how much? How much were you surprised reading that book Tommy, I was not surprised by the on middle character of Donald Trump. I mean, I think, everything we've learned about Donald Trump over his entire career. Is that he's a narcissist doesn't give a shit about anyone, but himself he's not particularly thoughtful. Interested in learning about anything, but his own news, clippings and you know, whatever's on cable news that instant, so I don't think like the basic thrust of was reported, is somehow new or revolutionary or you know like jaw dropping. I do think to see a white house that has so little regard for the President United States when there
dedicating their lives to working for the man that they would. She it hung to a person, including his own children, like that it Tells you a lot about what it's like in that building what they actually think of him. You know, and it's confirms all the things that we know from afar because he tweets things that you know lead us with these same conclusions. What do you think love it yeah? You know it sort of confirms what we the suspected I'm or assumed. I think it is. Valuable insofar as it eliminates any town. I think even those of us who are very anti trump there's a part of us that wanted to at least believe that it was five percent better than we feared right. Just a trump we see on television is Worse than the trump that exist behind closed
There is a bit of an exaggeration. Maybe there is right. Maybe there is something that you do once in awhile yeah. Maybe we've taken this not even just ten percent too far. No, no! It is bad. I think what one of the that's fascinating. Is it it? It seems as though from everyone from Rex Tillerson to Gary Cohn to to Kelly. Mcmaster to his own children, it seems. It's not possible to come out way from an interaction with Donald Trump or to hang up the phone with Donald Trump. An A lot of these guys have this inability to stop themselves from saying what if I hit it? Oh my god holy shit over and over and over again they hang up the phone and their exasperated. You know he. He is said this before a Fox news being low information voter who became president. That's who he is, I mean, I think, it's interesting, because so much of the coverage of Trump and his presidency is, you know, and he's got this lower.
Reading and Democrats hate him and they've never hated more, but the base loves them, and so it's sort of it becomes this partisan coverage right and what was interesting about this book, is literally everyone who has ever worked with the guy, including family members, Republicans in Congress, the people in the White House, his friends. They all think that He has some sort of genius or or intelligence when it comes to showmanship salesmanship marketing yeah, but when it as to any other policy issue, substantive issue that he's just not that bright, he can't focus There's also been this thing. You know when you first became president runs like. Is he distracting us with this right? Is he is he? Is this strategy to distract us from x issue in the issue and the truth is he's the one who's distracted he's not distracting us like he can't focus on any for more than a couple minutes.
All he does is watch tv, and you said this dummy like has access to the most secret interesting information in the world. So then any other human being on earth and doesn't seem like he wants to read any of it? And this is, I think, is an interesting point is the one thing people maybe gave him credit for was marketing and pr, and then he understood how to like, sell a message to a nation right. I think his election, maybe sort of lead us to believe that could be true. The reality with this book is his team, up royally by the way they responded to this. This would have been likely another twenty four hour. Forty eight hour news story. They just went away, I mean literally, he there have been God north korean nuclear tests that have had a shorter shelf life than this book, because Donald Trump went out with this insane statements. Averaging Steve Bannon. An now like all of us are like. Oh my god. I gotta download this right now and his lawyer go and then send a cease and desist letter, so
they have lean into this thing so hard and made it this fascinating food fight that everyone wants a piece of it. Let all the Sunday shows today, entirely, because they up the response. The cleaning people back in the day? More like fully prices is a friend of all of ours. There was this devastating book. There was come out about Hillary and they managed to get a copy of it early and they all read through it and they found out the most salient points and they'll eat it to reporter, and they give a quote. Can I be quoted snoring Yanni do this again edit this and they gave quote. Can I be quoted amazing? a great quote: any kill the book, because they wrote it off as a nothingburger. We're going to cut this too I've got how much from this guy for pulling that during live, shows, leave Leave it all it all One thing about this to Tommy's point much as a
tweet saying I'm, a very stable genius is proof of the opposite: book itself makes it on point. While I was going to say no, there respond. Their response to the book proves that the book is true. The response to the book proves the point of the book. The book's existence itself makes the point that the books makes is that? This is a white house that is off the rails, that there's no control. You know Donald Trump tweeting. I don't want to interview with this guy. This guy had never did anything. I didn't want anything to do with this book, Michael Wolf. Who's the sleaze sleaze in the right, place at the right time, use the that nobody knew what Donald from Father cared about. The Donald Trump was erratic that nobody knew where they stood to get to the White House over and over and over again, and to make these people feel comfortable enough around him to get endless absurd quotes from, because there was no one watching the store, no one who felt like they understood how the White House was supposed to be working so that one of work. Sleaziest reporters could camp out in the West wing for weeks on end yeah, I mean you like
Every administration deals with the first big book about the White House. Usually the Bob Woodward in his you know he's one of the best, Reporters in the world and what he would do is have a source come to his house and park in his garage with. No one would see you go in and out in his private chef would make you food He would say all of your colleagues say you're a disaster. Why is that not true and then they're like vomit up all these attacks on their colleagues? You have to work It's hard to put one of these books together had to be sneaky about it. Yet ask tough questions yet to work your sources yet to be sophisticated and we had to have done fucking Watergate. No, you can just get yourself on the fucking emails or someone that get yourself through security. You could just camp out there. Anyone of you could have written this book. All you needed was a visa. No, I mean look.
Give her. The this other reporters have. You know pointed out that there are certain facts in the book that aren't facts at all. There's certain things that will be made up, which is fine, but those same reporters and those same outlets have through their own reporting over the last year, confirms much of what was in the book. This is a staff and a president who they did not expect to win in the first place, yeah as soon as they did when they got in there, and then they fought yet we deserve to be in here and they have this chip on their shoulder. The whole time that, since everyone was wrong about the you know, guessing that we were going to win the race in the first place, all the criticism now must be wrong. Yeah Donald Trump, as we've said many many times over the last year, is a seventy something year old, who's, never going to change right, he's out. You're, not gonna, teach him anything new. At this point he doesn't want to learn anything new. At this point he just wants to watch Fox television.
And sit in his bed and eat Mcdonald's and yell at the screen like that's who he is at least William. Randolph Hearst had the decency to go crazy in the privacy of his own homes. We have to all witness this now. They're doing it in the pool is doing it to us to the whole world Where is he was the one that collected his pee in jars at the end? Right sure is that right How are you doing this? I was thinking of Howard Hughes, leave it in
They have a common, your order, mail, you're, getting out of p in jars. I just well I just well. I want to fix it and got it right. Yeah, when I was going to say is I I think what's interesting about the book is not just what it tells us about Donald Trump, which is what we already knew, but what it tells us about all the people around Donald Trump, because it's hard enough to believe that we can get to a point in our country where we elected someone like this this president. But you would think that there will be institutions in place. That would stop this from happening or at least alert the rest of the world and the rest of the country that this was going on. The people in the White House are not those people yeah and the Republicans in Congress are not those love, a call Michael Wolff, a sleaze at the right place at the right time? That could be the name of the autobiography of almost anyone working this right because you have been in this- is this shitty opportunist who happened upon the trump campaign- and you know Now- is that a down fall like nothing. We've seen in in
and by the way, Steve Bannon has not said that anything in the book is not true that he said Katie all recorded by the way he was yes, Michael Wolff has in case you're wondering if, if and some of the stuff is true Michael, what Michael has tapes of Steve Bannon his tapes of Katy Wallace was. The deputy chief of staff was also quoted extensively in this book, everyone's upset about Katie being into, but no one has totally refuted what she said either up. So here's the here's, the scary thing. What does it say that our government is essentially on auto pilot right now that the United States government has, I mean people have criticized other presidents in the past. Obama is not a leader. Why won't you leave the white Wise and George Bush, leading or he's rate right now is a situation where we actually have. We just have someone who is watching television tweeting about it, yelling about it. Looking as press
bridge and decisions are then thrust on him that he sometimes he doesn't want to make. And what does it sort of like? What do we do? What does it say about the country? What did they say about all of us, but now we're sort of running on autopilot here, and how long can we last that way, yeah? Well I mean one of the things about Trump is in. This may be an exaggeration, but they talk about Amazon like sort of being functionally illiterate or at the very least, not interested in reading memos that are long and not interested in engaging in polisy conversations or at least being in a room in a meeting where he's not the one. Talking for fifty four out of sixty minutes so tell me what that means is. Even if you have a staff, that's undergoing a process of taking a really rigorous look at a very difficult challenge. Let's say it's sending troops to Afghanistan or like dealing with the crisis in Yemen, He doesn't actually give a shit or wait in which means you have he's a little. You know, Polisy policy, staffers
Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon or Hr Mcmaster. They can of defacto make these decisions by greasing the process or doing certain things there. So you don't have anybody like you had with Barack Obama, whose whacked for being aloof in professorial in for dithering? Yes, he would try to pick apart assumptions and get to the heart of what the reality of a problem is not just sort of take on the Washington response that you know we're doing x thing, because that's the way we've always done it right. So there is this auto pilot feel, which is gonna, run up against a big challenge. At some point we just don't know what and when yeah. I think the scary piece of this is the world coming for Donald Trump. At some point right, there's no, every president deals with the crisis that demands them demands that they perform the job on his already felt that
but when hurricanes have come devastating hurricanes that have caused this location and misery in a Puerto Rico still needs a lot of help. That is a terrible and sad an enraging example of presidential failure, and it can get much much worse than a storm. So I think that is a really terrifying reality. On the other hand, one of the bring parts of this is that in the same way that when we thought on the trump would lose, we were all kind of realizing that the only reason, Donald, the only reason don't from wasn't doing better in the campaign, was not because our institutions are holding up, not because the media was holding up so well, because Donald Trump with its own worst enemy, and that's still true. Now in many ways you know Donald Trump, not wanting to do the job, not legal campaign for healthcare helped us in the fight to Healthcare Donald Trump, not having attention span not being able to lead an organization is part of the reason. Has it had more success on issues like immigration and has had more
success on some of his plans. It's clear that the man has plenty of authoritarian impulses and that you know if, if he knew better to some much scarier things and the reason that he hasn't been able to be more effective is because he isn't that right and he also didn't also. He didn't bring a staff of people who were all ideologically committed in the same way, and it also speaks to, I think, the nature of the United States government, where, in the vast bureaucracy, that is the executive branch you are, the president is allowed to make certain political appointments in each department. But there also is sort of this vast group of civil servants in the Department of Defense in the State Department in the Justice Department everywhere else in those people because of their hard work and because they are non political and non partisan. In many ways they have sort of kept the government
running and kept us out of more trouble. Even when we have a president, who is you know, it's completely manifestly unfit for the job and by the way, one of the great challenges of being president is fearing how to steer this giant ship and how to get semi autonomous bureaucracies. In agencies to bend to your political well that is one of the challenges of being president. She is not able to do it anyway, not able to do at all. You know every president, I think, spend some time. This is true. Obama, Bill Clinton, every Publican Democrat at first you know the president tells you what to do. You spend some time figuring out the job is and then and then the person, slowly Yours out how to wield this power, how to make the how to fit the presidency to what they wanted to do meet Donald Trump just can't get on. He can't afford the thing he you know he keeps his arm. I don't know what a sports metaphor. They can't get on the jet ski
A big decision is the easy part implementing it and forcing the government to comply to what you demand. It is likely that the magic, maybe getting on a moving carousel. Okay, that's a sports cool. I think I think we also learn from this book. I mean we have heard through leaks over the last year that you know there is Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump and Gary Cohn and DINA Powell and this group of moderates in the White House, moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans, whatever they may be, who have tried to steer him in the right direction and so far they have all been abject failures in that regard. Yeah and you and you sort of understand why that they've been abject failures and it's because he is this guy who only listens, and I can only process the last person who's been in his ear and even Van can't focus past the next few minutes or until the next Fox segment, and so even if
August telling him all the wonderful reasons that we should stay in the Paris Climate agreement if Steve Van and walks into the office five minutes after her and says something different or if he turns on Sean Hannity, and he says something different, that's how that decision is going to get me. Yeah turns out chair at the conniving little, which is not very good at it. Yeah, that's a that! Those people are not good at their job. You know: I'd be like there's: no, is he crazy or is he not crazy as he is he stupid? Or is he smart and I think it's a bit doesn't matter. It doesn't matter and it's more subtle than that, whatever whatever sharpness ornate abilities he may have once had, he has allowed to ask her atrophy by virtue of his disorder it whatever narcissism, lack of discipline, laziness, selfishness, and like anything else today, we can go through this. You know: there's a million articles today and conversations on all the Sunday shows like. Should we diagnose him? Is it a mental thing? It almost doesn't matter it's his personality is, will always be on
fit for this job. That's just the way. It is whether it is a mental disorder or not. It doesn't matter he just he can't do the job. The other thing I took away from from all of this is to your point about the the people who claim that they were saving America, you know I used to give them a little bit more credit in that recognize that there was virtue and having a few sane people around him. But when you see this book at and as we've seen in the recent recent recent weeks, he is so out of control. He is so unable to do the job he is so disconnected from the that. Actually, what we need is much simpler, which is we don't need a sophisticated group of people pulling the strings. We need we need to know that there are people who will stop him if he tries to do the big terrible things and that's You know it doesn't matter whether Steven you know whether Dino Dino Powell, the Gary Condit there to stop Steven Miller. What matters is having the the one final check against this person because the reality is there
that for all the ways in which he's not up to the job that all the ways in which he's not sophisticated, he is still the most powerful person in the world and the hope has to be that for all the criticism and for all the ridiculous of all the rest that there's that people like John Kelly and others Who are you know whatever they're telling themselves that if they are put to that one big test that they'll pass in- and I don't know the book makes me I get like where those sort of so called moderates are coming from and sure it must have been awful. Fighting and Steve Bannon like a bona fide racist, awful not job every day, but I actually ended up holding them and even more contempt yeah. He knew God dam well all along what a bad person. Donald Trump is, and they still help him get fuqing elected and that's a risk that they never should right, because the choice, the choice that Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner and DINA Powell and Gary Cohn didn't make- was to walk out the front doors with the White House, go in front of a bunch of microphones and say this man is crazy and unfit for the job and he shouldn't be there and
could have done that and it might have made a little bit of difference. Maybe it wouldn't have a bunk and in That would make a big I would have made news, but, like you know that they thought themselves we're here, because we need to be here and we need to help us and if we're not here, worst people are going to be here and I get that rationalization, but they just they all told Michael Wolff for this book, and I told you know Jonathan Swan and my gallon and Maggie Habermann. All these reporters that the guy is crazy. They've been doing it for a year and they just don't say anything about it publicly, because why? Well that's the and every single person from the hill, all the people that know there's a few crazies, but all the ones who know damn well that he's unfit from Poland to Mitch Mcconnell DINA Powell counter to all of them! Matters Mcmaster! All of them they've, always made the compromise for themselves. That says this is the world and I will do my best within it to function, and this is the moral compromise I'm personally making, but all of them together have the power to change this right, call them together are making the decision to make this the world, and so it is a
collective action failure. It is a tragedy of the commons. None of these people visually are willing to do the right thing and so all together, they're doing a terrible moral failure participating in a giant moral and speaking of all of them together. The other thing found very interesting. Is that Donald Trump from the beginning, this book says basically outsourced his entire legislative agenda to Paul Ryan and Mitch, Mcconnell and especially Paul Ryan, because he hated Paul Ryan during the campaign. CALL Ryan said bad things about him and then at the beginning of the administration, Paul Ryan walked into the White House and kissed. His ass and to the point where it made Trump staff embarrassed for Paul Ryan, right our staff, totally kill the part of themselves that can feel embarrassed and basically it's Donald Trump said: I'm not interested in policy. I don't care
much. I don't want to know about health care, I don't know, I don't know about the budget and you go, handle it, and so Paul, Ryan and Mitch. Mcconnell are basically in charge of the US government in terms of domestic policy in terms
Legislation and that's what we have right now and that is basically two kids wearing a trench coat pretend to be president well, and it also tells you something about why we were all like. Why won't Paul Ryan, Paul Ryan stand up to him? Why won't Mitch Mcconnell stand up to wild with these Republicans stand up to him. There's two reasons number one is they know that this guy will sign whatever bill they sent to his desk? It doesn't matter they have carte, they can do whatever they want now and two. They also think well, he's also super popular with the base, and if we go against the base, then we're screwed in our elections, so it doesn't hurt him. It hurts us right, it hurts us, and so we get whatever legislation we want signed and we also get to be elected again. If we just don't say anything about Donald Trump and that's the that's the bargain they've made and so no matter what Donald Trump does no matter what awful decision he makes. No matter what awful thing he says: they're thinking of themselves, Micah reran, the legislation that I want.
More important and it and it's what we set for a long time, they're going to tolerate his head as long as his hands can sign things yeah and that's it. So we shot with the Trump response on Saturday he he accused the Democrats in the media of quote, King out the old Ronald Reagan Playbook and screaming mental stability and intelligence boy, like just one documentary on Reagan? You know what I mean. It's probably one page or somewhere. That could show you what actually the truth was about his precipitous mental decline. Right and I don't know if I'd call that Ronald Reagan, Playbook nor and then he continued to learn. You know his tweets, now, learning actual throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been my mental stability and being like really smart. What is the biggest lap? One tonight is just a verbatim dollar values we I became for the United States on my first. Try also note, for you ran into her stride on my first try
but it's not riding a bike. You know what are you doing? My first try like learning to dive. I think that would qualify as not smart genius and a very stable genius at that uh. President, and then he gave a press conference at Camp David. All of our favorite Republicans standing behind him, and now we are going to a little bit of a game now for a segment. We call ok, stop. We happen to have this this a little a little snippet of this press conference. Here's how it works. We roll the clip as it goes. We say: ok stop to talk about it, let's roll But this morning you were tweeting about your mental state. Mister Mcconnell couldn't dress what people at home, so Donald Trump, is standing,
to drama camp David uh, the presidential retreats HEBA him are several members of Congress in his cab. And in it he got the out sexy Rexy MIKE Pence. He's back there. I Cia director, for some reason, which is a deeply strange Mitch Mcconnell for those of you at home, has his saddest, say turtle face on right now is just look at it's funny. The red sweater and his face are the disagreement, because the red sweater says this is fun for me. I'm having a nice time, feeling, colorful, I'm in jeans either like what it might. What body is this? How do I get with this? Is this? This is a bill like a body that wears jeans. Look at the news: okay,
into tweet about that this morning- will only because I went to the best college. Ok, stop the as you can see the souls of the people behind him floating up in the air and disappearing. It's like one of those Dementors from Harry Potter. Came they just sucked the lifeout of these fucking people having to listen to him. Talk about his college, you guys what seventy three winter, the best colleges and they didn't search, I went to a I had a situation where it's a very excellent student came out made billions and billions of dollars became one of the top business. People went to television for ten years was a trip. Success as you probably. Ok. Stop you also the apprentice, many things you can say about someone who hosts a successful reality tv program, but like You don't have to be a genius without them with a sale. We only what the smart ones do that he fired me. Lo
Yeah yeah, I mean it's not like Kim Kardashian, like goes to a Mensa meeting and then it's over to the thing you didn't lose pounds to play a part. He just sat in a Fucking board room and said you're fired ran for President one time in one. And then I hear, there's sky. That does it not know me doesn't know me at all by the way did not interview me for three. He said he interviewed me for three hours in the White House. It didn't exist. Ok, it said that that is not true. Apparently he Michael Wolff enter. He might not have interviewed him in the oval office, but he interviewed him many times and of course knows himself. Just trying to fact check it. You know good, but I don't know this man. I guess a sloppy Steve brought him into the White House. Quite again, sloppy Steve I give it to schlubby or like
Let me I don't know lobby it's like he was seen lobby on his job and he's also just a sloppy look like. I think I live better nicknames. We in the car the way it is not quite lion's head, it's not quite low energy yeah. It's no little mark on its no little Mario Marco yeah yeah because you guys can't see right now, but everyone else is trying to do. This stayed dear leader face an Kevin Mccarthy. Cannot keep up the facade one of those things, that's why sloppy Steve is now looking for a job, but if Robert Muller asks you to come and speak with his committed personally, are you committed still to doing that deeply depressing understand. Just say I understand there's been no collusion there's been no crime and in but tells me I'm not a hundred okay. Okay, in theory, my lawyers say I'm good in theory. Where did that,
come from in theory. In theory, everybody tells Maine its so funny when he goes words have never appeared. Next, so in theory, everyone tells me the I'm not under investigation. I understand when Donald Trump chooses to be lawyerly like he'll, just look at you and tell you a stone. Old lie and then I'll come back and say in theory, you know: there's no crimes. There's no crimes four of your associates have been indicted right now to have pled guilty, you colluded on television, curity advisor there have been crimes in these several there been several crimes, some of them confessed to already and like the collusion it isn't like we're, not waiting for some smoking gun. He colluded on television hacker. He did it I fired him because I didn't want this. Russia thing going on he's, told Lester, Holt yeah, no, it's all out there, but anyway, In theory like Hillary, is, I don't know, but I'm not, but this
no collusion, It's been no crime but I've been very open. We could have done it two ways we could have been very close and it would have taken years. But you know sort of like when you've done nothing wrong, let's be open and get it over with, because, honestly, it's very, very bad for a country, it's making our country? Look foolish? Ok, so this is Hey you know what that's great I'm glad we're in Stockholm is definitely something about this. Making our country look foolish. Yes, you guys a question all you have to decide which has made us look more. Is it the special little provision allowing for an investigation of administration potential crimes during the campaign, or is the fact that we elected our worst person presidents list or this one yeah. I know we're three within yeah thank so part of the world where we have to be remind of the role of the Soviets in the Russians had played,
an aggressor for very long time. So it's an ongoing challenge. This trees that I don't want looking foolish and it's Gotta, look foolish as long as I'm here that's interesting could wear clothes. That is reassuring because imagine what it would be like for american look foolish, not as long as he's here. So let's talk a little bit about the federal investigation into the president and his associates, which, as we mentioned, has so far led to two guilty pleas from Trump's National Security advisor and his foreign policy advisor as well as two additional indictments from Trump's former campaign manager and his deputy. Again, this is just a before we hoax. That is crazy. That's the end of a story
the beginning of a story about what's wrong, that's the culmination of a story of historic importance, right, like you, haven't, had that since Nixon well. Also, those facts in some ways confirm everything. That's in the book, because none of those people would have taken the jobs that they took. Michael Flynn are Palmetto Ford, knowing the things that they had done. That would cause them problems that they end up lying about. If they ever thought, Trump was going to win. They all did this 'cause. They thought it would prop them up financially for awhile and get them some more fame and fortune 'cause. That's how you spell it. System works right right. They got caught up in this before all the all of our american political news gets a response by the Wolf book. There was a fairly explosive New York Times story that broke last Thursday about the part of Mahler's investigation. That's focused on whether Donald Trump and his
so obstructed justice and what we learned from that pieces. That Trump tried to do everything he could to prevent attorney General Jeff sessions from recusing himself from the Russia Investigation, because he wanted sessions to protect him, because he thought that the job of the attorney general was to protect the president, and then we also learned that before Trump fired call me a Jeff sessions. Aid was running around trying to dig up dirt on co me and push it to reporters. So he could slander. Call me in the press, thus making up an ex used to fire him jokes are James. Comey is perfect, Jokes on you, we didn't need the bad stories. We just fired him anyway. So question Any of this information advance the case that the president obstructed justice.
More than we already know we're just this. Where does this leave us? Well, I mean I I yes, I think that if maulers team is confirmed, the Trump went to DOM again as White House counsel and said: don't let him go. I tell him not to recuse himself and that's by significant. It also sounds like runs previous was the chief of staff and since been fired and frog marched out. The door has handed over contemporaneous notes that buttress the case. Out of the evidence in this story, that seems like it would very much add to whatever case maulers, putting together yeah and again it just to reiterate this, and because we've talked about this before in the pot. This standard for obstruction of justice is corrupt, intent here and so there's a lot of people say well. The president, of course, have the authority up. Eighty per and it has the authority to fire the FBI director- and you know there was a a lawyer in the White House. They came to the conclusion that said with or without cause. You can fire the FBI director, and that might be true, but
You also a president, doesn't have the authority to do things if they may also cover up crimes. So, like you could not fire the FBI director. If you were given a bribe to fire, the FBI director? That would still be illegal, even though you have the authority to do so right there, a lot of like facile arguments about He can fire anytime. He wants for any reason. Like that's ridiculous, you know you're allowed to You got. A shredder my documents. Whenever you want, you can't come in the middle of the night and start shredding shift to conceal a crime should tell me scissors or illegal now, right, like there's all kinds of things that you have the authority to do, but then, when put in the context of obstruction of justice, are illegal. All of this goes to what we already knew. I mean it feels like this what's happening right now, there's more and more reporting confirming the public schitt where the crimes have been committed. Right before all of our eyes is being affirmed by what's been going on behind the scenes that we didn't know just confirms what we saw on television with the Donald Trump Marco me to a strong
just like to I. He practically said it. Is it James? I'm sorry. I have to go, I'm in the process of obstructing justice. Well, I we know again because the the the biggest smoking gun was the day after he fired him, and he interviewed and Lester Holt interviewed him and said. Why did you fire this man? He said because of the Russia thing and then run once came to the White House. The russian foreign Minister was in the oval office and he said you know, fire the FBI director. You know- and I was facing a lot of pressure because of that this Russia thing that's not happening anymore, yeah again, it's all right there. In plain sight, so I guess the question is: is there is an area where the president could have obstructed justice? Even if you didn't have any crimes the cover up like? Is it possible that there is a method that molar ends up with no actual collusion or crimes of collusion connected to Donald Trump, but that he still committed obstruction of justice,
He hated the investigation into him so much that it just wasn't giving him good enough press, and so he was so angry about that. Then he obstructed justice. I mean that's possible rate- is one of the weird things about Donald Trump is a huge allies so casually like he can be swinging a golf club. While reporter watches him, he says I never played golf and you'll go to a course. Four hours and I'm like no. No, he didn't play golf. What he talking bout so in the course of that process, I guess he could lie to the FBI or someone relevant in this process and get himself in trouble. That's what I'm waiting for at some point, if the FBI, if Muller, actually interviews Donald Trump, if they put him under oath, it's I'm way, I don't think things are going to go to well for him. So that's just a guess. I know be very disappointed. He needs to be that's an interesting question. So.
I find myself not sure how much like how much of the decline we're seeing is something he can contain right. How much of this is a lack of discipline, because, during the campaign there? who is depose. He was deposed at Jose Andres thing yeah as part of the legal proceedings around Jose Andres pulling out of the restaurant that he was open at at Trump Dc Hotel because of interest want to be associated with a fascist hamburglar. And in that deposition as fast as you can go, watch it it's online and you see the Donald Trump that is not on television. That is his most control. That is aware that if he lies it's a crime or at least will have consequences for him and it is it still him, but it is more contained and it does seem like more rational and more in control, and so I don't totally know much of that. Guys left it's possible if he knows his assets on the line but like if this, if this goes south you're, either going to jail at the very least you
or there's going to be impeachment proceedings, or this can be a big problem that maybe he can pull himself together enough to to tell the truth has trained himself to lie because he's trained himself to not fear the consequences of the lies coming out now, two weeks. I'll just lie again in the future. That's when he can deal with there's always another lie to make up for the last lot. That's how we glide Is this because we're I can happen, is people in the press and they yell at you and whatever he can get by, but otherwise you can't get out with the one that you tell under oath yeah. Right, so in case you're wondering whether congressional Republicans will do anything about Trump's potential crimes. There's also been more evidence over the last few days that the only actions that they're planning on taking our to actively help Trump cover these potential crimes up. It turns out that the only person Republicans in Congress want to investigate in relation to russian interference,
in our election and Trump potential collusion, is the british spy who found evidence of russian interference in our election and potential collusion, and so these congressional committees have been invest. Getting the Russia stuff for a year now and Trump, and they have one recommendation out of this committee from Lindsey, Graham and Chuck Grassley to go to they believe that uh Christopher Steele lied to the FBI. This is what they're doing that yeah. That's very strange huh I mean they may Grassley Instagram made was called a referral department of Justice where they said you should look into this really. Anyone can do that it doesn't mean they'll pick it up. It doesn't mean they'll, be a case for prosecution, but it is very significant that the senator of that stature would send that and do something like that. It's also very strange to me, like the underlying crime. Jim in the trunk cases that he or his campaign fired with the Russians to too the outcome of our election
The underlying allegation here but Christopher Steele is that he talked to journalists about what he found in the course of his research. Which is not a crime in any scenario. I guess they're saying he lied about it to them, but I've still not really sure what this sort of base case here like? What is the relevance of that fact? Yeah I mean it seems like there's two things going on and they're, both about obfuscation, so on the steel front, there's like sort of a step back and there's sort of a cheaper, liar keeper, manipulative effort going on, and it's basically to try to disqualify the entire Russia investigation by disqualifying this field. I see you guys remember the steel dossier, it's where the rumor of the sort of Pptp tape, John, which you know, because we don't live in a simulation where there is a pee tape, it will never come something will dream of this is not going to be a leader in the pizza. The pizza is a fantasy. We hope is but regardless
the dossier, you know they're trying to disqualify the dossier disqualify the whole by the investigation, but reports, including your times and elsewhere over the course of the past couple weeks, have made it clear that the dossier is not the whole source of this event that the dossier confirms some stuff that they had separately, that there was a larger investigation going on because of Papadopoulos and others. So he got drunk in London and told the australian ambassador there were russian crimes and it's set off a whole thing, because that's crazy and then and the second part of this is trying to boil tire, Russia, investigation down to did Trump personally collude with Putin to do this, and why important to find that out what is undeniable, and what is tremendously for our democracy, by the way, your democracy and democracy in Europe. Is Russia's attempts to influence and undermine western is around the world and that unequivocally
happened and it is dangerous in the point Mark Warner has made over and over again, which is important is ok. You made this entirely about you. It isn't it's important that we safeguard our elections from Russia moving forward, but because Trump is made in about himself and the These are carrying his water. We're actually not doing what we need to do to protect ourselves. What Grassley trying to do is actually even a step crazier, which is they're trying to say the Clinton campaign, at least in part paid for the Steele dossier, which push it over to the Obama run FBI which kicked off an investigation. So this whole thing is Hillary's fault, like everything else in our fever dream of an existence over the last thirty seven years, which is just Mean Lindsey, Graham, wasn't he normal at some point yeah. You know like a Republican, we disagreed with that. You know we do it, but like he used, he hit one point you said Donald Trump was a kook. We should be in office if there's a bunch of other publicans who were still supplicants to Donald Trump, but said you know on the Russia thing, we still need to know what's happening. What's going on, we need to investigate it. It seems like it's deteriorated
even worse than then it started or on the in the last couple months and may It's just a coincidence, but it's happened as as molar had started handing down indictments and we've seen more evidence. I don't know, what's going on with Lindsey, Lindsey Graham was never never an ally here, but he was one of those people on the list with the coworkers in flakes and Mccain's of the world. That, once in awhile, would remember that to believe that they had really strong principles are, and they would any once in awhile would act on them and then they put that statement out and then they'd be like that. That was my principal there. You see its statement principal's and uh. It's all right there, it's right there in my statement, but the Lindsey Graham, is gone down a path. He Donald Trump and that was that he was hooked. I don't know if we're just becoming numb to it or what, like the other thing, I notice this last week is an. I don't know if it's everyone's just getting back from
Ray can they're all negotiating the spending deal they're about to talk about, but there were a lot of Democrats out there this last week to sort of screaming about this I mean they have that they they're telling the Justice Department to investigate. Who are Clinton's emails again they're trying to you know indict Chris for steel, investigate Christopher steals, the birch, plywood, I warned us about Russian Interference, Paul Ryan is letting Devin newness who's already been. Disgrace, because he did one shity thing with the White House to just go another fishing expedition like there's, just the Republicans so engaged in sort of a vast conspiracy to help Donald Trump cover a potential crimes, and I don't see like Adam Schiff out there talking about this, but I don't see a ton of democrats yelling about this and I don't know what's going on. Is it because we feel like there's nothing much? We can do now except focus on the twenty eighteen elections. You know
get these Republicans out of office and go from there or what Danny this point on Thursday's show about the fact that we don't just need to screen about this, but have to have to lay out what exactly wanted to hold trump accountable on these matters. On these, not policy not like crap, not domestic policy matters like healthcare and an taxes. What are we going to do on the institutional questions that Donald Trump is raising? The Republicans have failed on. I think this is really important, but I think part of the I don't have the steps is I think, Democrats, we know we need to focus on healthcare. We know we need to focus on tax. And we also know we need to have the right things to say about investigating and holding trump accountable. But I don't think as a party we know where we're supposed to land that I think
there's a bit of fatigue on the part of Senate Democrats to just continue to beat this drum, like they're, they're, more comfortable fighting on healthcare them, a comfortable fighting on chip, more comfortable fighting on taxes, and maybe only that's where we'll win. So it's okay, I'm not sure yeah. What do you think I mean? I would just say that the democrats- it's it's- it's not like you need to be talking about the Russia thing all the time, because this is actually broader than the russian thing. This is about sort of the Republicans in Congress, degrading our institutions and the rule of law. There's all these norms around the Justice Department and what it should do and how it should be independent and how the Federal bureau investigation should be independent and when you should invest against AIDS. Someone when you shouldn't- and this goes beyond like- is there a pee tape into Russia. Scandal that we should all be talking about. This is about our institutions. You know, I think that someone, I think yeah? I think the state stand up and make those points I think part of it is, I think, we're all a bit. We're still in out kind of days were still in the old Ho Trump one
right. What does that say about what people care about right, and I think we know people care about pocketbook issues. We know that I think Democrats, we really don't. I think it's a, I think it's a open question. I think I think one of the most troubling things about Trump is we should just face. It is an open question as to how much in the voting booth in an election, you can make issues of norms and institutions and civic virtues around governance. How you win- and I don't think we know the answer to that, and I think there's Democrats who just are retreating to safer ground be okay, but I think you're right that these are issues that are incredibly important to talk about last question and then we'll get to our game. The thing that it that Democrats Republicans are focusing on this week is there currently trying to reach a deal that will fund our government for more than a month or two at a time which would actually be relative, for us in America hold on a second Are you guys? Are you going on a weekly budget, your government funded by the by the four
You guys have a longer process, as you guys have those kinds of you guys have these showdowns. Every couple of weeks applaud. If you do well, I think you're, so hot highly functioning bunch arrogant scandinavian bastards that you're better than us with you yeah with your functioning Savior functioning government, your generous social insurance. We have. This is, if you took it across the ocean, joy, your iphones. What do you Fox Conn? He talked about so the big big, controversial sticking points are a or they will fund the bipartisan children's health insurance program that guarantees coverage to nine million american children and B. Whether we'll protect at least eight hundred thousand young american immigrants, known as dreamers from being deported in March Trump, is now saying that he will only protect the dreamers
If he gets eighteen billion dollars for more fencing on the US mexican border, which he's calling his wall He also wants ten thousand additional immigration officers. Another immigration restrictions so should question is there a world where Democrats make a deal on border security in order to protect the dreamers, or do we hold still and Absolutely no deal on anything else and of Trump wants to shut the government down over this wall. He can shut the government down over the wall. I think this is an easy one, because I think this is kind of a type of politics that existed before Trump and I think, because Trump is so heinous and he's made this whole thing about the wall, which is which yeah stick dumb nonsense that he just clicked in on because it rallied some some old southern white people want to store. You know we have to remember that any compromise in a great
going back to when we went dark to Reagan, to George W Bush to cling to do whatever bomb. Up close, it was always a compromise that was about legalization path, legalization, protecting the dreamers and money for border security and interior enforcement, and we should be open to the idea. We should fight really hard and we should actually make sure that enforcement is about holding companies responsible, accountable and not punishing hard working people who are here just doing jobs. We have to make sure it's compassionate and we shouldn't just fund a dumb wall, but I think we can call border sick. Donald Trump can go on television call border security which is going to be part of any deal his great wall, and he can take that and then we can protect eight hundred thousand people that deserve to stay in America 'cause. It's the only thing that ever known to me. This is analogous to what just happened on health care, which is they repealed the individual mandate, which was not a good thing, and it's going to lead.
Higher premiums, but it is far far far short of repealing Obamacare. It's not touching Medicaid, it's not touching any of the subsidies or anything else. Nevertheless, once it happened, Trump went out on tv and said Individual mandate was central to Obamacare, which means now we've repealed. Obamacare, it's gone, don't talk about it again. He said he can. He can put up little Bamana Psychic wound, that's just for him he's going to say it was dead. If it, I mean they're already saying that some of this money on the border, fencing would not build a wall, but it would repair some fencing. That's already on the border like. If that ends up what it is and Trump wants to go and say this is my wall and it's it's actually right. You can take a picture. I think that the the key I mean
knowing that a government shutdown is actually a big deal. It hurts a lot of people, knowing that, like the clock, is ticking on kids, getting health insurance as we get further and further from chipping authorize and we're gonna get the point where you're dreamers are getting sick. You know having to leave the country and mass. I think the politics of a government shutdown is ultimately good for Democrats in very bad. For the party in charge, so that we should fight, every single priority we have in there, it is like hard for me to swallow an idea as stupid as eighteen billion dollars for a fucking phony wall that won't work. And it's probably not real anyway, but maybe that's where we've got eighty billion dollar helicopters. They can't fly, we pay for dumber. I think we got to watch it. I think we got to make sure that, like some of the some of the things that they want, some of the like poison pills that plus Santa Monica Fascist Steven Miller, or inserting in this deal about cutting Lee,
immigration and chain migration of stuff, like that. That's all the they're talking to Jim in late two right right and it could get to a point where it's it's too much and we gonna say no, but the most important for Democrats is no Democrat, should vote to fund the government that will deport eight hundred thousand people who promised to protect and no Democrat should vote to fund the government. That will not extended thanks to nine million american children, and we have to just absolutely firm on that and now that I have a that is to be a line, as the alignment Senate Democrats understand is something that is being drawn by the millions of people that are becoming gauge and where they have been before that I've been paying attention that these are the people that can deliver the house, the the people that can deliver the Senate and whatever they think about the broader politics, immigration, whatever they think about that. This is a moment where the entire democratic be is looking to see if democrats are going to give them something to vote for and if they let us down. I think we have to unleash holy hell, but we have to just wish them right now to do the right thing. Ok,
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wanted to quiz one of you about the ways in which Sweden has been used in this manner. So anybody here like to play Stockholm Syndrome, This person in front row is waving. Did you say ice cream Seattle emerges in Seattle. Maybe will call on you there hi. What's your name Emily Emily? Yes, are you from from yeah outside of Stockholm? It's a different type. What where you from? What's it called. Now! No, I don't think so. What was it Dabbler
and what was your name Emily, Emily from Yardley Yardley, so Emily yeah, your first question. Emily from yard After Donald Trump mistakenly referred to a nonexistent terror attack in Sweden, Fox NEWS, Is bill, O'Reilly interviewed swedish Defense and National Security advisor Niles? built to provide insight into the extremist violence occurring in Sweden. The swedish government releases, statement admonishing Fox for inviting Niles built to speak. Why was it a is? it's on. American television was not authorized by the swedish government. Was it be. He revealed find information about an ongoing security operation. Was it see he flew business class to the? U S which was very expensive over the t,
He is not a swedish defense and National security advisor. He does not live in Sweden in his name is not Niles built fan series that is right on Emily. How did that? Did you guys all catch up with that that, at all you guys all saw that happen so If you guys off question number two: Emily Bernie Sanders. A democratic socialist run insurgent primary campaign against Hillary Clinton. The two thousand sixteen also injured criticism from Republicans for his left wing platform, which Republicans at the following I think, Bernie Sanders is a good candidate for president of Sweden those sweet. Sweden does not have a president. Was it a Paul Ryan before endorsing Donald Trump be marker video before endorsing Donald Trump, see Mitch Mcconnell before endorsing Donald Trump or D. Hillary Clinton
forward all fell apart. We ended up in this nightmare, Hellscape, Paul Ryan. It was Marco Rubio who, by the way, I will simply point out with at said he used to say the line about Norway, but he's like he got in trouble because Norway doesn't have a president Hey, John: let's take a behind the curtain, the crooked media. For a second, we have two conference rooms. One is large one. Mall what are their names big mark on the good guitar stuff with that. President You know that was the whole thing. Keep up. Ok, listen! I didn't think I'd have to do this in Europe. Here's the thing about shouting things from the crowd you gotta be so sure you're right. Thank you for coming.
Emily, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for me and I'm sorry for that person question number three debate about income inequality, one conservative offered the following rebuke to liberals. You said gosh. These executives make too much money. I don't think the government should be in the business of deciding what you get paid in socialist countries like Sweden and Denmark. If you are born poor, you usually stay poor who said yeah you don't like it do you who said it wasn't a Paul Ryan before voting for a tax bill to make school supplies more expensive for teachers was it be Mcconnell before voting to cut Medicaid for millions of working people. Was it see TED Cruz despite the fact study after study has shown that there is more economic mobility in countries with a strong social safety net and that in America, you're more likely to be stuck in the same economic situation? Is your parents? Then you are in countries like Sweden, and well with was D day Bernie Sanders, but like he was being sarcastic
that's a hard one, but I'm going to go with c. Nailed it Emily. You have two out of three correct, but this last question is is for all the marbles you that saying here for all the things. The whole enchilada. Number. Four guys. Can you focus either funny how quickly again, I'm sorry? How are you I'm only great okay, yeah, thank you for wearing them. Aren't you're, welcome plus a ton in shipping and customs fees, so you should be grateful. You got the incorrect sound. Fortunately, you are now two for four question five. This is some good news,
does have at least one big republican fan. His name is Donald Trump. How do we know this John pretended to be a swedish Andrew ancestry for decades, including the In his book, the art of the deal. What are Donald, Trump's, true familial origins, was it a Donald was found in a crashed Minecraft in Kansas by lovely farmers, name Jonathan and Martha Trump, who raised the boys their own. Was it be free Trump Donald's father? Who is one of those guys that stuck onto the lifeboats on the titanic before the children. That kind of makes sense was it see the family was german for pretended to be swedish, to avoid angering jewish tense during World WAR two and then just kind of went with it because it seems cool,
or whether D. No one knows where Donald Trump came from. We all actually can't remember anything before two thousand and sixteen we're all in a simulation, and we just relive the Trump presidency over and over again to see if we ever figure out how to save ourselves. They've done a simulation fourteen thousand times it. And when we get it right? Ok, the answer is c I forgot with when to pay for the shipping for the march. You won the game I forgot you will get a lovely one of these pod. Save America, hats,
polluted because Tonya is handing it to you right now, give it up for Anna late. Thank you, John and Tommy, because they sat there. Well, I screwed up the intro to the game. When we come back, some hey would you guys, but the American brought you by upside upside the travel site? Maybe they could help me, because I can't get my suitcase back from Delta. It's gonna save like this one is offering us a real opening, keep going how's. Your things to do in twenty eighteen checklist coming along its ship John, you know why I've been able to do a fucking thing except call Delta, to try to get my suitcase, and I know what you're thinking. Why did you check a bag? Love it? Don't you know not right yeah. Thank you for that fucking piece of advice that Ben Stiller had an airplane in meet the parents in nineteen. Ninety seven, I know not to check it back, but I had to these ads will be
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Okay, we have time for a couple questions hi, I'm with Peter from Sweden, Stockholm so in Sweden, we have at parties in Congress and parliaments. Hearing about your grievances, about splits in the Democratic Party, and if you like, consider the phone, end of having maybe Mitt Romney Party, Anna Donald Trump Party in twenty. Sixteen, you like hope and in any way expect that there two parties in one hundred years in the states or don't you I mean I just. I think that I I think that the way we're going you could see an independent run for president and six.
I would. I would have never said that in a pre trump era, but now that Donald Trump is president anything sort of possible, but I do think that our two party system right now makes it extraordinarily difficult for a third party or a fourth party to pop up and take hold. I think the electoral college makes that really tricky. I think the way that congressional districts are drawn makes that tricky like there's just a lot of proportional represent. It makes make that tricky. I mean right US house for parties they're just stuck into two cat, like the Republican Party, has the corporate conservative wing and it has this nationalist front and the Democratic Party has the Bernie Sanders left wing and it has a more center left party inside of itself,
fight a lot of the things out inside of primaries and and because of the way our system is designed. There's just it's harder for a third party to a much and also if you're gonna want to like. I don't think the Mitt Romney Party is pretty much just going to have new on the in it, because video, the other possibilities, Bob Corker, Jeff Flake, all those guys. You know they decided to quit and it's supposed to stay and fight Donald Trump. And so, if you did, if you had this this portion of Republicans, who really despise Donald Trump or elected office, and had this following in the country of Republicans, who fought like wise, like our our friend TIM Miller, who who is one of our contributors and plenty of other Republicans, we know,
They would go do that and they would feel candidates and they were trying to do this, but they just up a lot of them. Don't want to do it. They don't want to battle Donald Trump, because they're afraid of right wing media. They don't think their support in the base. They don't think that the money that they can get money from donors- and so the wheel has to be there to actually have that hi, and I think right now on the right side of the spectrum that will isn't there and on the west side of the spectrum. I don't think the splits between sort of the Bernie supporters on the left on the far left and a lot of the center left folks are that extreme, even as they were in the that the Democrats are more ideologically united, at least elected Democrats than they have been in some time, but if it gets to that point. You actually need the people to go fight for that, and I don't see the world. There is just one of the things at this point. You made a lot. We've made a lot one lesson of trump: is there actually wasn't a big constituency for the Paul Ryan agenda?
That's not what the base on that with Democrats wanted turns out was republicans want to trump Trump run Russia. These people, on on trade on immigration in wasn't pushing on a more right wing tax policy into voting for because it gives the end up signing doesn't care could be out. This Paul Ryan but Ryan, you know, deregulation and cutting taxes for billionaires, doesn't have a party. In fact it's what may bring Trump and the Republican Party down in twenty eighteen, not some of the things that Donald Trump ran on, but some of the things that Paul Ryan pushed him on, which are cutting taxes and taking away Obamacare. That's why eight to the minute twenty eighteen. Thank you for and set the alarm from the lien shopping, and my question is to tell me I really like parts of the world. Thank you with that short question tiny during this era. So what do you believe? You said trajectory off on foreign policy views within the Democratic Party of foreign policy views? This is hard. I don't know,
The challenge is the Obama versus Clinton fights on foreign policy were sort of the last big inter the debate we had and that almost entirely revolve around the Iraq war, which Emily was a pretty obvious answer right like she before a war that was a fucking disaster that we're still paying, for that is led to uncertainty in the region. The rise of ISIS, like all these challenges- Brock Obama, as opposed to it- and it was a very clear contrast- and probably the and he was able to win Obama when he got in office had talked about. You know, how we needed to win the war in Afghanistan, how we need to get tougher on Al Qaeda in certain parts of the country, and then I think Democrats were actually kind of shocked when he followed through on some of those promises, including going after Bin Laden Pakistan increasing, targeted, strikes against targets in various places and sending
10s of thousands of troops to Afghanistan. Both sides seem to, in the last election, have coalesced around a desire to pull back militarily from the world than a pretty significant way. An unfortunate we on the right. That's been coupled with the desire to pull back in diplomatically in terms of diplomacy, generally contact with the world attempting to lead and trade agreements like the transpacific partnership to pull back on foreign aid, I don't know what those fights are going to look like the next go round. It's hard to see because the focus right now is so demand. Dick in nature and like we're always fighting about social and economic issues. First, that foreign policy almost gets second shift, but you know I think believe the good thing about the Obama administration is there was. This reflects
if some shin that Republicans are muscular and Democrats were soft and that the muscular foreign policy, the more militaristic foreign policy, was the one that was electoral, effective. It can be used as a cudgel to whack Democrats in the election. I think Obama reverse that thinking somewhat and I'm hopeful that can lead us to make slightly more intelligent, informed decisions going forward. Even in the car text in the political process. That said like right now we're having a big debate over IRAN in the IRAN deal. We cut to reduce the threat of the nuclear program and it's still just as fucking stupid is, as all the other debates we have in Washington. So maybe we haven't learned our lesson yet
stockholm you've been wonderful. Thank you, so much to everyone else will be back at the pot on Thursday. I live show four mods well, thank you. Thank you guys and good night.
Transcript generated on 2019-11-15.