President Biden steers his Covid relief plan through bad faith whining about unity, Mitch McConnell tries to prevent Democrats from taking control of the Senate, and the MAGA extremists are winning the Republican civil war. Then White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki talks to Tommy about being back in the briefing room and the first week of the Biden Administration.
For a closed-captioned version of this episode, please visit crooked.com/podsaveamerica.
For a transcript of this episode, please email firstname.lastname@example.org.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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I welcome the POD save America, I'm John Fibre on John Other. I'm Tommy retort today will be joined by White House Press Secretary General Saki, we'll talk with Tommy about the first week of the Biden administration,
For that we talk about the coming battling Congress over the President's covert relief plan Mitch. Mcdonalds
How to save the filibuster in
which side is winning the war within the republican Party? You know it's funny, John. I accidentally prepped for the interview thinking it was with Sean Spacer, so
a little off the rails with just getting out of this is a just. A little way to talk to Jen is doing a great job to grill her about the church,
as in the paint job under five cry reference, it yes you're here,
I would like a gay set eyes on the honor, for I saw that I was not a priority, just like just one pair of L.
Bt Q eyeballs. Thank you, love it.
How is the shutters we gray lavender leave it we had command Johnny on further mileage is very funny. Immediate, ok, stop with the inaugural, and then I talked to him,
he about her book, the some of us- and it was a great conversation, took it out. Did you
I can now on his his she days. That is definitely don't happen, cause you and waited a chip he's always like I'm eating arm. I think now you're, not you have you like
every time he's on, we ve covered it pretty extensive
So not this time?
But we did talk a little bit about his transformation dust of it got it also
check out this week's America dissected for the latest on the vaccine. Roll out Abdul speaks with Doktor make a Johnson about why the process is so screwed up and what can be done,
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crooked dot com slashed store to check out all of the great merge. I sketched the news. The first and biggest item
I'm president binds legislative agenda is one point: nine trillion dollar plan to fight the pandemic and the recession. It includes money too
vaccinations, expand, testing and reopen schools. It also includes fourteen
the dollar checks and extra four hundred dollars a week in unemployment money to prevent state.
Local lay offs money for child care, paid, leave, rents, important eviction, freeze, stewed loan freeze and
fifteen dollar minimum wage. The white ass kicked
if they're congressional outreach on Sunday with call between National Economic Council, director, brain Dese and a bipartisan group of senator
is that your mansion got together after seventy five minutes,
Republican Centres told a number of elements that binds plan cannot get sixty votes in the Senate, as is with Sue
Collins saying she has quote
and who now because of course, she's concern love it waters over. There are public and concerns, and what's your reaction to those concerns, so first
They have one concern, as
I can tell, which is just the number they
to really be focused entirely on, who that's a very
big number of items sticker shock. The price tag like there to go shading over a car MIRA means that it was shocking. It's a shot. Well, the thing about it is that, like this isn't a car, it's not like what what
What do you want? What what part of?
This crisis are not willing to address right like is it the money per se
local right that's three hundred fifty billion of it. Nobody wants to say: that's not what, therefore, Republicans, because trumpet push for
previously said that they were open to doing two thousand dollar checks and unemployment insurance, which is
a full trillion of it right
Does he rally around like there's like what twenty billion for vaccination there fifty billion for testing this forty billion for PPP? You start going through it and you realize very quickly that what really saying is we don't want to talk about the piece of this we dont want to vote for because no republicanism come out there right now. We ve got a million jobs
aims. We have tat ten million job hole in the middle of a crisis.
If the job numbers we saw this week were the first thing
we had seen it will be the start of a deep, terrible recession right we're in the middle of a national crisis, so they won't say make
check smaller. They won't point to what they want to their saying. We have sticker shock, it's just too big Tommy a day,
Sticker shock. Mainly
You know in part of his dick shock was we just past nine
billion dollars. You know,
In December. There is a few
republican senator say. There's too many non covered specific items like a minimum wage increase to fifty dollars an hour, and then I guess, Susan Collins, in a few others, had an issue with the one thousand four hundred dollars checks going to people making too much money. They said the family is making as much as three hundred thousand dollars could potentially get those one thousand four hundred dollars checks.
your response to sort of all of these various concerns. Yeah look I mean I share love it sort of annoyance with the people and Mitt Romney
that guy support, extending unemployment, insurance and money for states in money to help with vaccine distribution. But not this much will ok than what is what is the right amount and I also seems like some of them are of the view that
the economy, all bounce back once covered is handled so there's a deep prioritizing. The economic relief
israeli Rob Portman is in the press crying because the White US hasn't called him. So I guess maybe this being a thin skinned baby is his prey
in this instance, not helping people you'll like it does seem like gets there some hope here,
right of these people. Actually, these republican centres actually support all these things in good faith. Maybe there's a chance. You can cobbled together a package that they could support, but who knows will say yeah if you take their concerns as good faith concerns
but I would say, is like none of these senators had an issue with trumps. First, one point: eight trillion dollar plan last year: the cares
act or the nine hundred billion dollar plan, this fall and nothing has changed about the state of the virus or this or the economy. The only thing that's change,
the monies gonna run out. We know
that life is not going to return to normal until the fall, hopefully earliest completely normal. The last relief plan was specifically designed to get us through. The winter is lover pointed out. The job losses are still continue to December report was a hundred forty thousand jobs lost, which started reversing the so
called recovery and unemployment benefits, are gonna run out in March. There's a cliff on that and we're not vaccinating people quickly enough right now, not nearly enough. So like all
the need that was there when the Cares ACT was passed, the need that was there in the nine hundred billion dollars pass
all there now and so the reason this much money is because that's what it required. Last time we had, we needed a big package to get us through the fall for the took two last the recession in the plenum
this here's a thing like. If, if, if there seem to be ten republican senators, they could get behind like ok, the minimum wage they're, not gonna, be for that
it's the one issue on which they seem principle is a popular issue, but do not have
the debate about whether or not to take a one point. Nine trillion dollar packaged one point: seven right there,
as though they want to see a much different. A much smaller think we just can't do that right, because each piece of this, when you look at each piece is required right, like Joe by
promised getting. Those checks up to two thousand hours
We benefits are needed. Three. Fifty billion for state local is needed, the money for people in testing is needed by
It has been saying we're international emergency. We need to act like it right. This is a package that reflects the actual scale
the problem Mitt Romney season Collins, their problem is, with the scale
of the issue and giving and creating like artificial constraints on the amount to get their votes doesn't make sense when it seems like they're out looking
Do not quibbling they're. Looking for an entirely different proposal, also political reported that
even some Democrats indicated that they're not solely on buttons plan hum of your problem. Do you guys think that is
It's hard to know me I'd like to see actual centres on the record saying as much. I did see that Jason firm and who is a bomb. I had been a strain. Economists suggested that he think you'll have to come down some too.
All the Democrats, you need even for reconciliation bout. My guess is that the binding team started big with this package, anticipating the fact that it might get negotiated down in some places. I think that's
smart negotiating it's what I would have done to that.
The thing I remember that was that Bernie Sanders is now about to be
it's a figure out how to make the cynical forward
the chair of the Budget Committee and he set over the weekend that
wants to use the budget. Reconciliation path
to pass a really big covered relief package? So you know that's why I don't
what Democrats are on board or not the burmese forging full steam ahead here.
yeah. Let's talk about that and I do think under the question of getting all the Democrats on board, you right, you can have some negotiations around the edges here like if they wanted to target the fourteen hundred dollar checks so that they're not going to people making three hundred thousand dollars. But you know somewhat less than that, like I'd, be fine with Adam sure that could bring the price time price tag down a little bit, but your eight there's nothing to be major changes just to get Democrats on board. But you know that
it has two options he can now change is planted, make it smaller so that he may be able to find the ten republican centres he needs to pass. It is a normal piece of legislation or
he can change only what he needs in order to get all the Senate Democrats on board and then passed the plan through the budget. Ricans
creation process, which only requires fifty one votes which Tommy's you just pointed out. Bird
he is like ready to move on that policy and the house as she's ready to move on that love at what are the
besides in downsides, does her to each strategy.
Why did you talk about what it's like about regular regular order? So
What are the facts to regular word? Earth is quite hard. You really remember. We looked at the challenge.
Doing it, the reconciliation is, you have to clear everything you this
parliamentarian to make sure it is a budget related proposal that has
other kinds of rules associated with it. Fifteen dollar minimum wage there's some people are claiming you can do it probably falls out
another owner a number of other.
They probably it. Maybe it may be the only provision. I think that falls out if you, if you did it this way, I'm up
positive, but I think I think almost all the other things we talked about we're just money just straight spending. Yet
I think there are other parts of the proposal that haven't got a lot of coverage that would have to just not be part of a reconciliation that aren't money, but the money could be done through the reconciliation, thee.
idea? I guess foregoing through regular order would be. You could quickly pass checks and money if you still believe that there is
republican votes for that I dont know and then
could also pass some of the emergency funding for vaccination and testing and ppp, and then you can come back
to reconciliation, to do some other things later, so your first bill would be by partisan and unnatural. After that, you would use reconciliation
beyond that, I dont totally understand the merit
of that like wide. Why is it
pass some of the other pieces reconciliation later, and what does that do, especially if it is Bernie, seems
thank you, can get reconciliation done by separate before the impeachment trial start, so I dont totally understand it. But to me it's like you know,
your experts have at it. If you're gonna do, though, if you like, the guy
was to get as much of a one point: nine trillion dollar package out as quickly as humanly possible reconciliation right
regular order, plus reconciliation. I have no fucking idea,
tell me: do you want to make the argued
in favour of going through regular order and just trying to get those Republicans I'm now things are done.
Argument. I like data, fact able angle the washing of us made this point over the weekend, which was in some ways having a fifty fifty split. I think it's almost less complicated politically, like one would Obama fifty eight senators back into
thousand nine. It was easy to allow yourself to think ok pick off tomorrow,
it's here. If we engage in good faith negotiations with you, if we just like
listen sweeteners, domain in Alaska. Maybe we can get the boats we need. I only exists
and how you that you find ten Republicans to support a package at the scale
Biden seems to think is necessary, so
return to reconciliation, and I think that
the downside is bad faith whining from republic.
And about how this isn't unity, which will spill into debt
reporting and analysis about how this isn't unity but, like the point,
governing is to do things for the people who elected you, and I think the american people want Joe Biden to pass a big color
Relief Bell and get his arms around the problem and get money to states for vaccinations and testing,
All these things I think like I would go right to reconciliation dates sincerely. I agree
view, but just for our listeners I'll make the argument for regular order. I'm now a centrist pundit you can. Finally may I present symptoms involves fabric Aragon, I'm gonna be a raw meat to be on the round table so like
got the regular order you show voters?
the media republican politicians and
maybe most importantly, moderate demo.
attic. Senators like Joe Mansion
Kyrgyzstan, Cinema John Tester, the you
are willing to work in a bipartisan way and you could perhaps get love it. You reference those, but you can
Let's get like a smaller deal done where
In the end, you not an early when, were you get just the money for vaccinations out the door immediately because its urgent and we need that money immediately and you get maybe the votes for the fourteen or dollar checks, because we saw a lot of republican support for that just a couple weeks ago. So, if you get and in some has Democrats we're talking in american prospect
but this that this was a plan that somehow Democrats wanted called shots and checks right, and you would pass that through you, its edges.
You'd immediately get a bipartisan win on shots and checks out there. A man by could do the rest of his plan in
conciliation package with just Democrats sometime in the early spring, that would be. That would be the case for doing it
order, and then your Joe Biden? Then you can you, but you may do you know you kept your promise on bi partisanship you brought ten Republicans along and everyone in Washington Cheers, and I dont. I guess I I I don't. I don't totally understand the politics,
of that reconciliation bill where you ve, taken out a bunch, a really popular stuff and left behind the parts that are bit less popular. You know I get out,
I think the Czechs and the checks on the vaccines up is gonna. Be no. That's all I'm saying, of course, that's. What I'm saying is those at the party taken out that are really popular. You pass those two regular order and, although I no longer being left with a very good point, you're being an area also, you know the urgency of passing it's a little like the unemployment benefits. Extension
are really really important have sometimes taken aback. Seeding coverage show the Czechs and I dont know like what happens if you start talking
but reconciliation. Delaying the unemployment benefits is out some in their thinking about, including with the
checks in the state.
Covenant chow what we call
cashing covert, covert shots and change tack. That's just the Czechs thousand jobs and checks
totally understand it. I d me: it's like it's over
that very attractive. Title like I want a shot, and I do want to check yeah. No, I won't go the view. Has another bill bogey, you already have people saying we just passed a bill. We just did.
billion we ve already. I already like that and I think a triple down on that everyone's you'd get squishy, go big Gulf
ass. Do not delay. I hate, let you gonna? U can wrap yourself in an entire, often not for traffickers upside down
I'd like the biggest upside of the budget conciliation present process. Is you deliver more relief to more people, saw this right now get help and that right now like that? That's that's, though, now the tough part of a red budget, reconciliation and it's interesting Tommy that you mentioned, that Bernie thinks he can get it done very fast, because a lot of people saying that, just as a process, budget reconciliation takes a ton of time. Because Republicans and others Democrats do can enter,
these amendments to the process and they have to debate every single amendment vote on every single word order, Rama
coming to me the most diverse that Beijing that what they promised to a thousand a thousand amendments in this process that they would have to take the time to vote on, and now I think shimmer can kill a bunch of them, but still it could take a lot of time and we do need to get stuff out the door fast. So there is a timing issue there too, and of course you could piss off them. You know them
pensions and the sentiments of the world to say the Republicans want to work with you. Why are you trying to work with them, but I should think that Saki Square the circle on this pretty well in her breathing today, because they asked about the budget, reconciliation process and Joe Biden seemingly looking for a deal. That's done under way
The water and she's had look it there's a better reconciliation process. Republicans can still vote for a bill. The goat.
Through budget reconciliation. If, if sanders
in policy, send us the reconciliation
by an can still say the Republicans look. I'd like it
Partisan bill here, I'd like to compromise on you know, so I dont think starting the process. The reconciliation necessarily for closes the idea of working with Republicans if your internet, so
When did we become a secret you what's going on to tell people what's going on here in Europe and to tell you no matter which direction the President Jesus he's gonna have to deal with Republicans weapons rising binds call for national unity against him, some local reporters who
credulous Lee treat the republican criticism as if it's on a level are already writing about this. The Washington Post had a story over the weekend. Headlines could turn
Off by binds approach, geopolitics
the stimulus relief, intensify the story. A story only got more annoying from their Tommy
Should the vine wait. I respond to this criticism and with the best way for them to keep working towards the unity while still getting their agenda pass. I just think you have to blow past the
constant process conversation and get to the substance. Ride me, Joe Biden campaign out a much policies in promises, and then
overwhelmingly one won the presidency is agenda
in clear and unity never met abandoned.
Bad agenda, because Marco Rubio, like made a weird hostage video,
tweeted out when you was crying relics. The ideas Biden has put forward are by partisan, seven
percent of the country supports his covered plan according to the new ABC Paul theirs by partisan support for two thousand dollar covet relieve checks, you have
sixty five, so that country wants us to rejoin the Paris climate accords. Like forty percent of Republicans want to raise
the minimum wage the year, the focus on the results and what you're doing for people and just get past this dumb archaic debate about the process it just. It feels very Washington to me, love it yeah below
we'll talk about this by a campaign on unity is very good,
what Europe means it means at this point I showing respect to people with him. You disagree.
It is best you can't argue in good faith and shared set of facts and not bring the capital damn right. Those are the three
parts gaze living up to his his his side of the three parts of what unity means doesn't mean were alive.
Mcconnell and Marker Rubio and others to dictate the terms of the debate, or
the agenda and look all Tommy's right right off.
Joe Biden will be judged as president on whether here
seeds in passing his agenda and giving people genuine relief from this?
says an showing progress on a number of policy? France? That is it? Nobody will give a shit about the filibuster. Nobody will care about these process debates. Nobody will care that Rob
says nobody from the White House. His cot has called me now. If you'll excuse me, I resumed with brandy to get like your ridicule. Nobody, not all of that, will melt away
All that will be left is whether or not he substantially delivered. That is what will matter in the mid terms that it little matter in the general election to come. Voters care about the ends, not the means, bi partisanship is a means. The end
what you pass and yours, I'm like they are holding combined with standard the job. I do not set for himself yes turbines had, I think, more republicans work with me. I knew how to deal with them. He definitely did say that you know we ve all expressed. Our bewilderment
He forgets that, but that he did say that, but in his inaugural address he was very clear
that unity doesn't mean agreeing on every policy. It's like, like you, said, habiliments, making sure the disagreements are based in crazy, conspiracies and only two vital
that's the standard that he set out himself, and you know it's not just like Tommy said that so many republican support. So many of these policies embedded in this package, is it like Biden, is putting forward a plan. That's going to help trump voters in red States just as much as it helps Biden. Voters in blue states right he's trying to help the whole country, which you know some
we would hope at any president does. But the last president was like going to war on blue states re literally. Maybe he alertly said he would not give money to democratic governors
then that I always gotta cloverleaf Uruguay unity, like Joe Biden, gonna help all these. I also I find it to show exhausting this suggestion that you know he's being hypocritical by using
executive orders, Joe Biden
said he would get rid of the muslim ban. Is it bigoted it's horrible
wretched thing that goes against everything we stand for. As a country, you didn't say, I'm to get rid of the muslim ban by putting a bill forward in Congress
course, he just gonna repeal the exact
I have ordered that Trump put in place against this debate. Ranges from
he was leave to obtain, and it's like it so frustrating to watch reporters and play into this in focus on this is sort of like the central thing right now
You paint on ending the muslim ban. People know that ending the muslim band would require an executive action. He one not only the electoral college, but
Seven million popular wrote margin! That's why he did it.
because I'm ban, but that lifting the lifting of lifting the Trans Ban, as he did today, doctoring Para trumps, eddies a horrid of other agenda, because I think the key the key piece of all this is that
when one aspect of unity that I think Joe Biden prizes? Maybe it's ETA it
you know it's a bang, shouting unity, but its governing
surprises it sensible. You gonna get news
briefing and not buy a tweet at three in the morning the briefings will be regular, I'll treat, people they'll, be it'll, be calm and orderly, and the lack of chaos as a means of kind of lowering the temperature in our politics. Joe Biden has that we are at
We are at a current rate of
incredible amount of executive orders. Zero surprises zero,
I should also like to do is I think-
that is inaugural, do something about like not every disagreement has to
like a war right. We we tried to just respond in good faith, to the republican disagreements to the covered relief plan right if the stickers prices too
from it Romney at the end of the day, Mitt Romney doesn't want to vote for it. That's ok, we'll see,
next time on some other piece of legislation, hopefully or maybe not. Thank you for playing. Thank you for expressing here
is we're moving automaker replaying here
though I we don't have that we have the Destroy Mitt Romney over this. He just he doesn't want to vote for the bell. That's fine! We're moving up! Pod save America is brought by Tommy John Boys. We get to talk about Andy's mission
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soap before Democrats can even start moving legislation through puppies.
Of and committees that fifty fifty cent it needs to formally past
a power sharing agreement that gives each party
even number of seats on each committee but makes Chuck
humor majority later, gives Democrats the chairmanship of every committee and allows democratic control the legislative schedule, an agreement that identical to the last time there is a fifty fifty Senate in two thousand and one
but here's the catch Mitch Mcconnell said he won't support the power sharing agreement unless humor promises not to kill the filibuster, a demand that shimmer has rejected. Democrats can't take over committees, though an freshmen senators can't receive committee assignments until an agreement is reached, so business is not completely
locked in the Senate, but there's a lot of confusion there, because there's a lot of people who should be chairman of or chairwoman of their committee right now and and they're not get my gavel because MRS Miss making these days
love it. What are the different ways? The stand off can be resolved here. Well, so it seems as though
three broad ways it ends. One is that's Mcconnell, just cracks.
One is that shimmer and the Democrats crack and make some sort of unenforceable promise that is,
written in such a way that she merkin, pretend you didn't say it in six months ago and the other is that Democrats decide fuck it befell. Buster has done because this
this this. This obstruction prevents us from doing the people's business,
Did I miss one war? They all was well, I'm well yeah, the other one is, they could say the filibuster is done.
For this specific it all right? I guess it's. Americans are filibustering. This the Sahara sharing reinvigorated the filibuster on the organizing resolution, which would break open the entire debate, yeah yeah yeah, so there's it Bob.
We like there's your bus reform and in theirs caving. That's it yeah tubby. Why do you think Mcconnell picks this fight? Now? Was it smart because it doesn't seem like
I guess we should also say that it's not just humor who rejected the humor has now the entire democratic caucus behind him, including opponents of eliminating the filibuster like Joe
Jane and Cares and senator they're all united behind humour on this. So why did Mcconnell pick this fight? Was it
its little we arrived at any sort of filibustering, B,
the existence of the Senate right now, which is not good for Miss Schmidt caught up
mission Mcconnell is
rude, but not always smart. I may I think he might just be burning clock in trying to strip away as much time from Joe Biden,
he can in terms of its body gets. I've done is creating as many obstacles as he can for humor, creating political hurdles
for moderate Democrats, maybe in his mind, in the process and just
and generally as obstructive as possible, because he's.
in the ass. I grew you though it is. It's been heartening to see,
but like John Tester Mansion and other Democrats come out.
and say this is outrageous, will I will we can't do this living shimmers proposal which
a lot of Democrats on Twitter, reflexively flipped out about was to just go back to them.
Heart power sharing agreement from two thousand one. It's it's a very clear easy disease,
I bet by partisan plan
I've he might have overplayed, is his hands here. I'm not exactly sure what what Mccall soon Emmy Collins was quoted in one of these stories, basically giving an explanation,
for that she's, like you, want to do it before there's an emotional, difficult, controversial issue so that it isn't
She driven its institution, driven meaning promising that you'll keep the filibuster, because
which is basically his amiable. I'm really worried that if we had a debate about the filibuster because we were blocking
Greece and the fifteen dollar minimum wage that we will
who's that fight among public opinion in so I wanted. I want to do it well, it's all about process, an institution and most people don't know what the fuck we're our dragonettes that's in practice. Ash Mcconnell is blocking every issue so,
After that thou logic they hold people, they don't live in northwest easy. Here I mean look. I think.
Best argument for what he is doing to me is this debate is coming
rather be about process in institutions and norms and about the minimum wage or covert relief. He's now gotten a few democrats, like you, got
I'm on the record, saying I'm against striving to filibuster, about open to it right, that's a better quote than he had a week before and
they, the argument against it. As he's pushing towards he's he's moving a big confrontation, that limits is power, closer
whether by the organizing resolution, which would just give democratic
John Tester and mansion and cinema reps in getting rid of the filibuster or bringing the fellow. But the debate does bring moving to filibuster, debate forward for democratic activists
breaking the seal, while this was it
yeah. I guess this is this is the big question is? Are we should be talking about this, because what is the best strategy to convince
mansion and cinema and other democratic fans of the filibuster that it's time to kill it, because the one thing that Mcconnell did that he probably didn't want to do. Is you write levity together like of a firmer quote from Cinema on this, but he now has fifty one democratic senators on the record.
The tumor shouldn't promise to keep the filibuster as it is, so you get, he just inch the whole cock as a little bit closer to who filibuster
warm, but now we have to figure out what to do about cares and Cinema and Joe mention in the rest of the group that I really like. There's two things. I think one
talking about the filibuster. It's a harder conversation on we're talking about an opportunity
raise the minimum wage or specific bill right exactly when Susan Collins was worried about. Yes, I mean: what's it soon calls wary about that's what what what grandson worry about their all aware there are being completely transparent there like. Let's do this fuck now, let's try to get them on.
God. Now, because it's one it's not a hockey. Let me know because we know we know our position is untenable in the
among public opinion when you get to a realistic and the other,
This too, is
whether or not you emanate eliminate the legislative filibuster toad
We were right now. Democrats don't have the support to do them
rats having it as a control is really important, which is why a bit frustrating the cinema statements, Bree Frustrating, went further than tester and further mansion was strangely. Why are you going so far like you can just not before
but still want to govern. It was a bit like. I don't. I just don't understand that statement by it
but what it also does is it like. It makes more acceptable to somebody's moderates, perhaps other reforms to the.
Buster like forcing
publicans, you wanna, filibuster things to stand in the Senate, changing it from
sixty votes to have to be asked to forty one votes that have to be no right like there are a lot of smaller tweaks there. There there are reforms but
before moving to filibuster. That would go a long way to helping Democrats at least Munich,
our position to pass their agenda that that I think Mcconnell as making basically inevitable,
If not farmer likely yeah, I think there. I think there has to be some pretext where Republicans
directing something very popular, and it is clear to the public that the only thing standing between this
popular piece of legislation getting past is like Democrats like
Joe mentioning Cares and cinema notches willing to have fifty one votes to kill the filibuster for this
and I think I think we're going to get there like we're headed there, but I think until you have issues to argue about it's going to be tough to just like talk about this and sort of more philosophical terms.
I was asked about the battle for the soul, the Republican Party which will soon
be tested again. Now that be,
Some people managers are set to walk there. Article charging Donald Trump with in
erection incitement over to the Senate this evening for a trial that will begin now on February, eighth, but after talking to it,
then Republican, Senator CNN reports at the chances of conviction or slim, and it's not hard to see why the mega wing of the party is in revolt against any republican politician who hasn't been sufficiently loyal to the guy who did in sight to violent insurrection with his attempt to overturn a democratic election? You gotta, be you gotta, be loyal to that
so tell me the ten hours Republicans who voted to impeach are facing all kinds of threats.
Haven't Mccarthy's walkin back and support for those Cheney, keeping her leadership rural areas,
Republican Party just voted to censure. Cindy became Jeff Lake. Governor Doug do see the first you for not supporting Trump, the last
on four not helping him overturned the election. How much deeper
Is this make the path to seventeen republican votes for conviction in the Senate? I mean, I think you,
always very steep. I don't see any chance that they get seventeen republican birds. I really don't I mean you can you can
watch in real time cowards.
Margo Ribby our finding arguments. Dad impeachment is divisive and convincing himself while on a Sunday shower, like the Kevin Mccarthy's left lop from
I'm saying: Trump's words at the fascist rallies inside of the attack to densing the exact opposite or just unbelievable. So, with very few exceptions, republican elected officials are cowards, are not going to break with Trump.
At anything, even when their own lives were literally put at risk and even when he wants them to regurgitate the lives means
the cult of trumpets, the same problem. That's existed for a very long time. I do think
like the Arizona Republican Party is
of an outlier in terms of just how
certain is, but yet there was that infamous quote to the Washington Post by some republic in official. Who said why
the downside in humoring him when it comes to
boarding live the election was stolen or that there were. These vast irregular
charities are than its somehow just appropriate. To ask questions about the election result. Here's the harm! You guys can
amongst all of your republican voters, that the election was stolen and now they are furious at you for not doing anything about it. I think
it's only any worse than the need for some of these guys if they support impeachment and they're all worried about a primary judge. So
actually has reported that in almost every republican state or district most voters are livid that republican leaders didn't fight more to overturn the election and support trump after the insurrection. What is this about
future the party like Maggie Harriman last night, I tweeted the trump has for now backed off his threat to create a new Maggie Party or Patria Party, but
because and what she says she's one of the reasons is backed up. The threat is because it's hard for him to talk about primary challenges and the Republican Party, if he's also supporting the third,
them. Someone told them that maybe those two things don't mix, but
is threatening letter primary challenges in twenty two, like Tommy just mentioned so like
What what is all this? What is how this sort of say about the future, the part so first of August. There is a great hope about what
and to cap Mccarthy, since he is sort of flip flopped on on ass, it were eaten shit for breakfast lunch and dinner right navigated. Without having enjoyed Kevin, you deserve it. You deserve nothing but meals of shit for what you ve done.
Republicans do not want to say anything
about the substance of the allegations against our trump? That's a good sign right. There really are afraid to say- and I want to say to support him. They want
They want to use of completely manufactured constitution
argument that? Oh you, cats, you know you can try, president after
sure they leave off ass. It doesn't make any sense. Next thing. You know we're impeaching. Ah, oh
president's. For no reason, all of a sudden may him you know so
doesn't make any sense, but that's what they're rally behind, because I dont want to deal with this on the substance, because they reckoned
Is that there is a broad
A coalition of Americans who reject insurrection, that's good, but there
terrified of their base right out there and there on the losing side of the insurrection issue. Yet Andy Insurrection is broadly popular opposition in american politics that lead us not as popular as you would like it to be, and there are people,
and base. Because all of these Republicans about the audacity of listening to the right wing new sites,
a way, I knew MAX Fox NEWS and all these republican officials who said that the election was stolen in one way or another, and these people have your website. Ok,
Well, we believe you now what's act on it lets let's, but
follow? What you're saying to its logical conclusion, and I was obviously something they never wanted any one to do. Josh Holly, never wanted any one to believe him right
tankers, never wanted any one to believe in what they do. They believe
Dobbs or they ve chosen to
Blue Dobbs, they believe away, and they believe news MAX and is a huge fucking problem, and you know from the point of view of
I'm crowds. I dont know what we should be saying other than if you want to unite the country,
join us in rejecting violence. It insurrection and the peaceful to an end, and we know shows, show support for the peaceful transfer power. That is what this impeachment
is all about and that these republicans you know make whenever
should argument they want, but we are going
to be dealing with IRAN.
Eliza Nationalist Republican base.
Long time because they made a very smart decision of locating themselves in less populous states and unless populist parts of the country so
yeah I mean we were where we where we were before the election were where you are in the weeks since the election. In dealing with this crisis, I will say to that. It also shows that the source of the radicalization is not just Donald Trump right, because the guy,
gone. He doesn't have a twitter account now granted there so afraid of him, they're afraid of his organization. You know given the primary challenges, but the people who were Ryan these folks up are.
on Fox NEWS on Owen on NEWS Max: it's the right wing media than his rival. These people up it's the crazies in Congress that they elected that arising the base up like this problem. Is we- and you know it was before Donald Trump came into our lives. It was a problem in this party and now that he's gone, it's still a problem. It goes far beyond Donald Trump. What do you think about like Democrats, role in all this like? Is there anything we can do to explore?
these divisions or do we just started by stand back and route for chaos? That's a good, too hard question yea owed its its tempting to sit back and share for the Patriot Party in and hope it will cleaves off a big chunk of the GNP, and then they both lose elections.
I dont know that that strategy gives me flashbacks between sixteen. In
very machiavellian takes that. I myself participated in about
from winning the republican primary,
the best thing that ever happened to Democrats, peace, he could never win the general election, Hillary Clinton, gonna steam, Rollin and Bob LAW, I think,
long term that a sane, healthy opposition party is very important in a very good
in any democracy, the institution that dont have you?
opposition, if they don't strong institutions, get in big trouble.
Worry about the Republican Party becoming even
more extreme and the damage that that could do so. It's
bad. I mean, I think, the only long term solution for Republicans who want to push back on Trump and the forest.
of Trump ISM that are requiring that they lie to their voters. All the time about everything is to speak candidly and tell the truth about what happened in the election in what he sang today. But I just you know every day that goes by less faith, that the majority of elected officials in the Republican Party are willing to do that. Yeah thing I dont want to sit here and route for all of these meagre crazies to win primaries, because somehow that's gonna be easier for us to win, though it may be easier for us to win. But I think we need to make clear democratic me to make clear to voters that their people,
and party is in the thrall of extremists. Rightly they spent twenty twenty calling us radical left us who loved antigua- and you know, there's potentially evidence that sub presidential level that it worked in some House and Senate races, though not all particularly Georgia. I would say that
energy fails, but like they're gonna, do it again now that we control the White House and Congress they're going to say that we went too far that we went too far leverage terms. We have actually made clear that these people are the real extremists. We have to make clear that people know that this is the party that has sent Cuban on conspiracy, conspiracy, theory.
to Congress, that people know that this is whose drive and the train here that
The Arizona Republican Party that's in charge and the Texas Republican Party, who now has like
the queue and on slogan on your twitter account
like it is like bait. We, it has to be made clear that this party is in the thrall of radical extremism. That's what we should start column these people pretty soon
I mean. You know like that there, the one designers like they're, not they're, not super happy about this, because, like this morning,
appointment, announced he's retiring
at the end, so he's not gonna run against and twentys. Now we have an open sea, no higher. You would think that, because, like Ohio has now gone republican
the presidential level two times in a row Republicans would be pretty happy. They don't seem.
super confident that they're gonna win, that sea backed I'd, say they're, probably favoured, but the probably the reason they don't feel super coffin,
is because, like Jim Jordan's gonna win that primary or someone, maybe even further the right
that's gonna make a seat that could have been easier for them, probably a little harder either,
right that you know that if Jim Jordan Windsor Primaries use it and extreme human being these,
stream partisan he's a convent not personally, and you could make it harder for them to when I think that it is
the odds are that what will happen here?
is that all the people rang for President take ruses, the Josh Holly's, what kind of lethal
and set the agenda when it comes to whether up
hug trump or not, whether or not they're playing for this Maga base, cuz they're all going to be looking to win that forty percent of a primary and that's all that they will really care?
and that's why these sort of extreme trajectories in political parties can become suffering
forcing and things just get worse and worse and worse and be seen it hit in history. We see him when people
Goldwater or a hug Nixon even after use. Disgrace me, the republican parties tended to just tat to the right, and it's almost
you can't saw them down saw I just I'm not very high level about
fever breaking you know you're, seeing online like the cure time, people are now decide.
that binds inauguration, was a deep fake, I mean they're just like there's a lot of weird things happening,
never been less confident about the fever break me to love it only this. Doesn't it like look if we had. If we had proportional representation, then the Republican Party would be too
parties are the conservative party and there would be this nationalist relaunch movement and because that was
and from view
because a lot of mainstream Republicans spent decades indulging encouraging me
Can you solve rightly misinformation, russian them by you, the southern strategy, decades of
just sort of hammering the base of the
Eddie until they were just a bunch of frothing at the mouth nationalists there now
a place where, if there really were proportion recitation, you would have a small republican party competing against a growing nationalist movement. It is eight conservative free
tangible nationalist party and
these people are fighting against fire.
against that momentum, Liz, Cheney, someone,
A few years ago we would have called an extreme and derisory ogier. Now Arroyo is Janey Mitt Romney. Any look like
a system in which telling the obvious undeniable, unassailable truth, where that's brave is broken
system. It's broken. Republican party is fundamentally broken
and it won't change by just encouraging people. It won't you.
by yelling at times about their headlines. It won't change about both sides, shit from the AP. It will change when there is a fundamental shift in the way. Millions upon millions of Americans currently get their information and what information they seek out, because, by the way, when Fox NEWS should a tiny bit of moderation, still hateful still ridiculous, still spreading misinformation, millions of people sought out news maxim. They sought out alliance, oh yeah, there's a supply problem in terms of what people are saying, but there's also a demand problem in that a self replicating. So it is a dangerous and long term problem. Well,
when we come back, Tommy will ask new White House by Secretary General Saki. Whether binds inauguration was
America is broadly based. Aims to come together.
you could do with extra time and money
I don't know. I walk round my house more with extra time and money.
another hour on the couch
spend. I guess I e by a few more things online.
then I don't watch some extra tv, maybe take a few more scrolls through the old twitter. I bet you could get him some Kutuzov Ladakh tease,
adequate is. So how do you get all this extra time? Hey? You know they do John UK
The link and read the story before you: what am I
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or more. I am thrilled to welcome on the show the New White House Press secretary, my old friend Jensen,
Eugenie to is so great to see you it's gonna, be here. This hour by the so called
I'm really excited to dig in today on air force, one colors, the Churchill Bosh, like all the big issues it underlines. I will talk with you about some of us which, by the way, the kind of mercy ten years ago, which you and I hope we all lived it so far-
those are for listeners. We ve been friends since, like two thousand, for we literally
sat next to each other in the White House for a couple of years, and this is the most the most by
interview. I've ever dine intervened also gave you a tour of the giant the carry campaign headquarters to remember this and you
applied for then we can apply for a job, and then you, when word for wrath, Obama who was running for centre- and I was thinking of ESA is missing out- is missing
Kara resident in those who does Obama guy is.
so I was thought I'd, never largely foresight at that point in time. Listen
you are doing the right thing. Everyone was workin to make the country a better place, but so it like this
First question: right: like
I want to know what it's like to be back up so listeners. No, the West Wing is tiny when you see Jen breathing at the podium and then like watched when she walked out. When the briefing is over that actually
into an office in when JANET I sat in that office. It was like half the size of a studio approach and we had eight
people in there. What are you guys doing in a covert time like? Do you have your full team in the building or you workin remotely know it so different, one we're all wearing any five mass and I'm not wearing one right now, it's right here, but because I'm in my office but ring
If I've masks there, we have a much smaller footprint in the buildings would almost feels like the end of an administration in the sense that there are just Sophie. There are far fewer people here now it has been
familiar is some of the same secret service agents, some the same people at the White House Mass, which is where you go it. It's basically like a calf, a terrier link. If you belong to us an unrestrained club, you go up in the order girl she sandwich in some
The same people- and there are so many friendly and familiar faces, so there's
What similarities last week
I am pleased that any see director which is so funny when I say that I love it when he's brilliant, but I still feel like were kids. We lit a briefing together last week and before we went out, I looked at him and I said she weeds
Building on and Larry summers we're doing less like we were approved, actors is going out to repress so there
still an element of it. That feels a little bit surreal, because you know you- and I were both kids in this place and its on it. Just an adjustment
it's amazing. Look so on top of us get.
older, like the media landscape, has changed a lot over the last decade. What colleagues one example
act that I'm interviewing you right now. That's gonna, say my house tonight we're having a renowned pod, castor with a massive following. So, yes, that changed
you know I read underwear ads for living. You also have yours,
Spacer, reportedly applying for credential reality like new partisan outlets. Yet so before that the Trump folks came in and they like, you got rid of the briefing for a period of time
They were conversations about like ok. How do we take this thing that is sort of an egg
realistic and make it more substantive for the press, less performative for tv. Is that
something you're able to think about and or talk about with, the White Ass Correspondence Association, or is it too soon
you know it's interesting, because if we had been coming into rippling one and he had been sitting down, everything you know maybe would have given some replies, which is certain scratch do something to the briefing has a bit outdated, one grand mining region. Now, it's very efficient.
To seek answers, I would seek really been this moment. You didn't want it responds decision. It say one of reduced rates at lake coming elements, version of inaction as in some ways during getting access to information. They have access to remind us secretary every day, but working of this building trust.
Was returning is creeping. Is me and doing here it was incumbent upon us to try to maintain a calm tone.
at this moment, because people have been through a tall man and you know
It's a heel and realize like we're, gonna disagree, but it doesn't mean we have shouting
Let me read will rise by someone. It started off. While I was very
ask? Do I watch you? Do a briefing like seven thirty at night on its inauguration that was
beyond the call of duty. On that day I mean I had five cups of coffee that day and I couldn't sleep, TAT night did call Peter Deuces. Do they see
Times the next day by, but in others,
so much adrenaline blames the first day and thinking I got all these texts submarine that relate the country is counting on you for you to say
see it- and I was like- oh my god- look banks yet exactly
suggests to me that there are so many familiar faces in their Biden administration from the Obama days, but
so interesting to me to hear how some of those same people talk about how the thinking has evolved on policy, for example,
Currency top economists for Joe Biden has worked for him for decades.
Including back during the Obama years. I heard him talking about how, in oh, nine and ten economists were worried about the unemployment rate getting too low, because that might lead to inflation. Now, there's new data, there's new thinking
Any economists are not really worried about full employment leading to inflation is sort of like not an issue
you weren't meetings then
Two thousand nine, but Recovery ACT. Your and meetings now about present buttons covert relief package. How do you feel like the approach or the thinking has evolved over time
no what's been drilling arose, and I ask, as I speak, I have this. Why else, but on its is that there has been an evolution right, it hasn't been
President Biden was Vice President Biden, we're gonna. Do things exactly the same way? I mean absolutely not I mean first, while the country has evolved rate and their issues at the beginning of the Obama administration, the president and vice president weren't out there in supporting of sporting gay marriage. We legislate insane to think about at this point in time right, but there has been
you referenced on economic and approached the economy and growth in in one of the things we ve been saying.
stolen adjustment for me to say, because of two thousand nine that the dangerous really that the package is too small right and that that is reflected in the lessons we have learned. If we don't do a big package now, then what we're gonna do
Your people who get apply for unemployment insurance were not enough money to reopen schools. It's just a very
There are certainly lessons learned from the past and substantively unpaid.
See to me one of the issues we were just talking about a good central
your heart is China, and now you know,
in in during the Obama Biden administration. There was
view you know there was a hesitation to to make the relationship uncomfortable right. We were married
full about how we talked about every aspect of the relationship. Nobody wanted anyone to be uncomfortable, and that was that by partisan approach and now
you have the binding administration and frankly many Democrats Republican saying that wasn't the right approach, things
got worse and they become more aggressive
Economic relationship is more problematic and we need to take a different approach. So it's something
employers, but some one of the benefits
Some is certainly some of the lessons learned on policy issues and I'm seeing that also income
allegations that mean number. We told you about your bill as bending the costs curve,
I stood with metal, no, it does, and by the end you know. Of course this was not by the end. It was clear from falling and talking a bunch of american people that really what they wanted to know, that their kids could stand health insurance rights. There are lessons to be learned and all the categories me will still message
but we are, we are learning from the past the last democratic administration. To that many of us certain does
like you as a really simplified a lot of these arguments, and I am grateful for that gives I dont think people want complicated answers.
What is it like for you? I mean a month ago, you are just one of us
slobs living in those seven months.
down or whatever was now you're handed
massive problem of getting a pandemic
under control? In the part the team trying to fix it like? How is that change
life are you able to get like
accelerated. Are they are they taken care of the people who are now trying to manage this issue?
so. We did about three dozen about Skype, vaccines of two and a half weeks ago.
we'll get our second dose and what they are trying to do. The might, whereas medical unit is get more backs and more people vaccinated, especially, will be around the president
and, as you know, like people who will have to be here for national security reasons, because today need access to classified
information. So I'm yes
since over certainly being taken care. I will acknowledge- and I guess me I don't know if you guys are doing things in person or how much you're doing things a person, but it
very street it is, it is there's a social awkwardness to all of us right because we haven't been around. People serve
Lloyd, asking secretary, late, Austrians and life, and I believe it was his signs in the hallway and vision
hi. I didn't really know what to do. It's like to shake your hand, will be the elbow banks, like the hoping feels kind of funny,
but awkward back
they're they're trying to make Serbian. Obviously the presidency that we're safe on the press are safe. I mean we're concern about that to the press have to be tested every single day there here, too good new universal approach here. Yeah,
an annex c meeting is like just begging to be a super spreading
vanity shovel bunch of people in a basement conference room together did not let em open a window. You know he heavily
learning morning calls and evening rap clause, and things like that and on what stood so different is you know they used to be there
to be on it
when when Dennis Mcdonough was the chief of staff, he had displayed huge table. That was like two tables in every twenty of us and there any be looking around thinking.
The only be director has stated. I love be interesting, and now we do we're here, but a lot. We do them on video, so your anger and you keep adding felt in the office next to me, is on her. You know
screen I'm on my screen mankind's on his screen, because we don't
We all want to be safe to cellar. Yet another puts also weird.
So. It's so weird.
It does have a very nerdy again. I see I sit room connection via the summit of the Pentagon for no reason when they could it commuted, but not you guys are very smart to be safe. I like it,
so I know you're so short a time
you: may have noticed that there is a way
stupid, debate breaking out in the media about the word unity. It seems to range from bad faith,
to this sort of like absurd to
maybe overly literal definition that suggestion
you're. Unity means President Biden
he's going to renege on all these promises he may during the campaign, because some of them make Marco Rubio sad. Can you just
tell listeners what is unity mean for programmes? Timing, Dotson. As I mean people ask. What are you gonna? Be your markers, unlike? What is that.
I mean I mean it was man, you know, so I mean look
in part of this from President Biden View is on
Basically, the five percent rate or you open to engaging with people from both parties and are you open to engaging and that does not just mean in Washington rate, is only a small little universe. This is like. Are you gonna talk, Democrats and Republicans
elected officials are even to make an effort to talk to you know people
in both for you
do you know
talking about what you're gonna do one cool bed, so I think part of it is
you're making sure and any this he is very focused on this on making sure he's. When he's communicating and using the boy puppet of the presidency to agree that suggest that still exists in the beginning of a presidency due to community.
After a partisan lens, but to all the public so that they can trust.
to end the information that is coming from the president. Did they made
agreed, that's fine. They can trust in the date
that's being presented. They can trust that he's trying to.
For them right, even if they disagree. So you know it's more about his
commanding used to fill. It always commented during the Trump administration about in moments of crisis, which we will have them. You know who the public
Look too, who is there more encompass writer? And you know when
there's a shooting at it in a community or at a school people. Looked the bathroom person and eventually gets there and you know guns, they re right,
looking at leg, they want somebody you sitting, the oval office is gonna tell them it's gonna, be ok
the terrible moment for our country- and I think, what President Biden this is
I'm trying to do is kind of return. The moral compass
and leadership to
to the White House in and certainly to the oval office. So here you know, that's that's part of his approach last question.
we might, I saw your brain deasey mentioned earlier, did havoc.
All over the weekend with a bipartisan group. Senators to talk about President Biden covered relief package just feel like there's anything
address getting made in fields as you, like, Mitt Romney, for example, saying he thinks we should maybe break off pieces of the bill and pass that
those compromises on the table. In your view, you knew it feels really foreign to people because
The last few years have been so weird bad luck, but it's
I mean how its working is, how it should work as hell. It's working with Us President puts forward as planned gives a speech. He says this is what I like to see. Here's what I talk to my health again,
amity about how we can address the crisis we are facing and then later
discussion about it and that's exactly what we're doing so is there
openness for things. The sausage looking different on the other end, yeah, absolutely I mean it probably will write the bill, never looks exactly like. It looks in the first speech rise birds fly as you and I
no, but I will also say what's so interesting, maybe about the questioning, but even about how some have responded to this on. Both sides of the ILO is like
The notion that Republicans dont want to reopen schools. Of course they do. You know where the notion that Republicans
one, the american people to have access to apply for unemployment insurance when we hit the cliff in them
in March. Of course they do or vaccine distribution. This is
a damn, just a democratic issued. Seventy percent of the public according to pulses, weaken supports it. So you know, I think
It is, you know we're going to have to discussion. There will be things that look different. The package will have different components, but it wasn't designed like he wanted to say. I want to have the two:
the entire package she was like. These are the things that are needed to address. The crisis were facing yeah yeah, less less legitimate
you thought about baby, showing some unity by having
in Biden get a little meaner on twitter. Maybe attack is on vice president single out some random journalists. You know just sort of for unity sake. You know it's funny
when I was in Wilmington for one of our events announcing haven't enemies. He said to me. I hope that none of our nominees are going to get into fights on twitter, and I was like who on earth would that be like we force them to be so?
he's been great cleared? All of us that that is, we were not, but he's not going to
governed by twitter. We can be out there tweeting. Of course, it's an important to communicate with people. Journalists, especially but that's nice vibe people can go to
but night, not worry something's happening in the middle of the night. That he's not like on his cronies.
tweeting in the middle of the night. That's not gonna, be where people can expect from this administration seems. I guess
advice from President Biden, gents Aki it. It's so great talking to you itself on watching the reactions
briefings on twitter and people just being like first of all, loving using
being, but also room
remembering how good it is to get information that is a factual and straightforward from you? So, thank you for doing the shutter
Thanks for the work you do and keep it happens
based agenda for joining us today and dodging left and right
thanks of the Churchill busts for just be in there through thick and fast and heard it hadn't heard at the time. You would have thought that
day one of the Obama administration. Would you and generous in the lower press that some day she be widespread secretary and you
in a pot and I'd be interviewing her in mice, weapons from my house a month. What ten down? Who would have thought that
is plausible laws,
gender and brings a gas, or maybe somebody exit
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Transcript generated on 2021-02-05.