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“Trump’s imaginary enemy.”


Trump responds to falling poll numbers with a temporary ban on some forms of immigration, Mitch McConnell wants to hit pause on economic relief, and we answer some questions from listeners. Then former White House Chief Technology Officer Jason Goldman talks to Dan about how Joe Biden and Democrats can get creative with their digital strategy ahead of November.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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well, replied, save America, Genzaburo Andean Pfeiffer. On today, Didn't I suggest Goldman former White has, digital officer who also worked on the founding team, a twitter about her. Joe Biden. Another democratic candidates can get more creative with their digital strategy ahead of November. Before that, we'll talk through trumps, immigration order, the coming fight over economic stimulus, and we will take a few of your questions, but first. Check out this week's pod save the world to find out. What's going on with all those rumours that north korean leader, Kim Jong OWN is gravely ill in here, some wild so
collation about what comes next, timing been also talk about how the price of oil can be negative? Israel? Fine, probably forming a government and then Take a walk on the all bright side, with former secretary of State, Madeleine Albright. Why This this is tat. We re not time Europe is, I think he does. I think he does the walk on the all bright side. Is that a thing that it is now There was a walk on the wilds side anyway, great issues into the episode.
We also want to thank the more than three thousand of you who views votesaveamerica dot com call to tell Congress that they need to include funding to make election safe and accessible as part of their next coronavirus package. Amazing keep the calls coming, but we also want to hear directly from you. Why do you need today for voting options, whether you have a pre existing condition that puts you at risk or just don't feel safe volunteering at the polls? We want to hear your story, send us a video at three hundred and twenty three four hundred and five nine thousand nine hundred and forty four. So we can share your story and send a message to every elected official about how important this is and why we need them to take action again. The number is three hundred and twenty three four hundred and five, nine thousand nine hundred and forty four tell us why you want to make sure this election is safe to vote in I get some news. Donald Trump approval rating is back in the low forties Dan Fox NEWS.
I haven't down eight points to Joe Biden, Michigan and Pennsylvania Quint Chasm down four points in Florida is internal poles. Showing similar problems. Which I'm sure has absolutely nothing to do with why he treated this? On Monday night quote, the attack from the invisible enemy, as well as the need to protect the jobs of our great american citizens. I will be signing an executive order to temporarily suspend immigration into the united. Its den it turns out the order he actually sign was not quite is sweeping as the tweet. What does it do and what does it do, I know people she probably sit down because turn This one singular time. Donald Trump said something that was not true. Just a paper haired people anything is possible. What it does is effective today, I believe for sixty days, the United States was spent entry to foreigners who do Have an immigrant immigrant. These are already in hand. It doesn't effect. Migrants are the United States not affect the family
If you were, citizens were trying to get immigrant visas deserted effect, migrant worker as it is very limited, proscribed thing that was primarily its aim. Release masquerading as executive order, although they are so a carved from medical professionals. Anyone on a temporary visa as its basically employment based visas for people who haven't for people who are outside the country, which has basically been halted. Already because most people in the world already can come to an end? her right now because of corona virus. So just two so everyone has an idea like about two hundred thousand people got these visas last year end the type that he suspended for sixty days and I M so most of the people it affects, wouldn't be able to come here anyway. Right now, though, there is still a good amount of people who have been trying to come to United States for quite a while and now will be held up because of this order.
It's it's interesting. It was interesting to me that he didn't just me it about or hidden even private. Really make it about corona virus and sort of protecting us from people from other countries. With the virus coming here and affecting people, he made it about protecting american jobs. Will this actually protect american jobs in now they will not. I mean every study shows that immigration is good for the USA. Let me help grow the economy which helps create jobs. It is this is a right wing, racist method. They have been peddling for decades now and trumpet just this is. He has been the chief paddler of this racist report can that for a long time, yet just the thing about there's, like twenty six million people have filed for unemployment in this country and, as I just mentioned, two hundred thousand people applied for this view this last year,
You know what a big tell here is that he made out carve out for guest workers and farm workers and medical professionals, because even Donald Trump, or at least have government realise that this country runs on immigrant labour and the parts of the economy that are currently running on a lot of immigrant labour huh, has allowed that to continue its casino. You say parts of the economy. Do you mean trump wineries? Toronto tell certainly those parts of the economy which is it. The Washington Post give a good example. There was a you know. Brazilian you jitsu expert, who was about to start his own Jim in the United States. How many people would that have hired right like there are people who are coming here every day to open businesses to start businesses too, higher Americans to grow the economy, the walls, the journal, the leap Liberal left wing Wall Street Journal had an editorial about this where they said.
Immigrant steel, american jobs. Why were their millions of unfilled jobs before the pandemic? Good point Wall Street Journal at a toilet work so clearly trumpeted this, because he thinks it's good politics, and there is unfortunately some evidence for that. Recent USA, today Polish showed eighty percent of Americans support temporarily stopping immigration from all other countries during the pandemic. What do you think about the politics here? Why think like I've services caviars here? The first is just in general, as Democrats. We have to stop treating tromp as some sort of like political sorcerer who feed whose figured out whose crack the code on how to win elections Lee You were never a word that we can never get rid of that every I mean. I think it is partly because of the surprise of twenty sixteen, but it's like look at twenty eighteen. Look at all the others,
actions like there's a lot of other evidence that has built up over them he stumbled ass backwards into the presidency. A wave of voters, suppression third party voting- a collection of black swan circumstances involving Jim call me and the Russians and all of that and intellectual. College mentioned, like the best piece of evidence that even into Sixteen, it was not some sort of political genius is he one was content with fewer votes they Mitt Romney got into doesn't twelve Mitt Romney lost by in points. He ran behind, noted, empty suit and conspiracies theorists peddling, crank RON Johnson in Wisconsin and, as you just pointed out, he has lost virtually. Real action and a blue purple state that has happened since he one so he's, not a political genius thee. Having said all of that, the I think
because something did not, and I dont think embrasures what he wanted. Two thousand sixty. I think it's why he won the republican primary. I don't think that's why he won the general action primarily having set. Of that we are living in a very different context. Right now, and when you get into tough economic times, voters look for someone to blame and ate and Republicans of great success over the years, blaming people who were quote not like their voters right so that it that is emerging Since poor people, you know sort of the it's. The an Randy and Paul Ryan makers take our situation, and so there is like Trump. Billowy to use this argument is amplified in this new political environment where people are fighting for jobs and it wasn't a time of historic, low unemployment five weeks ago
yeah I mean I don't I mean you know he signed the order Wednesday night. I think there is a sort of less of an uproar than even I thought there would be. I think he wanted to provoke a political debate that he didn't really seem to provoke and so well sort of moving on, but I do think this is going to be a big part of the campaign I mean here. You know he's going to say to Joe Biden bears twenty seven million people out of work. Why do you think emigrants should cut start coming into this country again after the first? Sixty days is up. You know. Your plan is to give citizenship to undocumented immigrants, to have immigration to this country. Why do you think you know we should have immigrants coming to tits take jobs when we have twenty seven million Americans out of work, and I think he's going to frame his economic
plan as one where he's going to stop immigration and put american jobs first, and then you know when you look at pulling numbers like that, what is what is Joe Biden say what a democratic ya mean? Immigration such an interesting political issue on a whole host of reasons are hosted vectors by the light he tried this and twenty seventeen or he made a bunch of immigrate. Emma's thirteen attack ads in tweets in Virginia against north. He Ever so will never forget the caravan seven year old miss thirteen members who were moving quite slowly to the american border during twenty eighteen. He treated about it and that kid governance raised. Like he's tried in its filled in all these contacts, and immigration in times of relatively good economy, immigration does work with space because it's not about jobs. It's about changing american I,
its losing this Magda America, where political power and cultural power is in the hands of white Christians, primarily right. It's changes the sphere of change. In a tougher economy, it becomes one of whom the benefits of the economy and like he could, like. I said, grass roots that's what I thought was interesting about this was Trump is suffering a little bit from being the present who cried wolf, because for we know what we know about the present time, I think overwhelmingly, the press were sceptical when he said it, they nailed him for not doing what he was going to say. I think Democrats in Congress and others handled it appropriately and didn't take the bait Now it's one thing to respond to a trump tweet and a trumpet second worth another thing when Trump weapon ICES binds immigration plan as his economically we're gonna have in tourism. I think a good conversation about how how you navigate that situation.
How do we navigate that situations of you at the answer? You lied? Maybe you know, as I think that after sixty days, the first thing is ok, Donald Trump. You said that you were gonna, protect american jobs. With this immigration order, suspension of immigration, is the unemployment rate. Better de more Americans have jobs. Clearly, it's not. I think you first point out that its ineffective that it's not going to work. It has been really protect american jobs. Then I think you have to hit him for not having a real economic plan, and I think you have to say he wants to blame. He wants us to blame. Each other he once he wants to divide us against each other, when the real source of the problem is Donald Trump and the Republican Party want to protect their rich friends and the wealthiest corporations, and they don't want to do shit for most people in this country who are working in the middle of or horn we're out of work in the middle of this horrible recession, and I think that's either way you know about it. Talk about sort of the economic
while this, but Donald Trump, on their homework and do not have any semblance of an economic plan to deal with what could be the greatest crisis we face since the great depression they don't, because all they ve done so far is make it easier for their rich friends to get tax breaks and and government funding, while there's a ton of people who are out of work, and they're going to tell you that it's all about immigration and they're lying because they ve tried to suspend immigration and it hasn't fuckin works. So that's exactly right, mean that what you're, ultimately democracy to do- and I am very encouraged by what we ve seen in the first forty eight hours since from did this- is don't play trumps game, you call it a right. You explain why he's trying to divide Americans what he's trying to distract from, as you said, the fact that he massively fumbled this response? which has put us in this situation is derived from the fact that the benefits the economic governance are often going to large corporations he's trying to help his friends and punished,
enemies in the situation and so calling out what troubles doings. Waning. Why? He is why he's lying? Not just that he is lying or not just that he is a dividing us racially. But why he's doing those things and what is trying to do to distract from gives us an opportunity to pivot back to the issues that motivated
voters in persuading the voters we need, because that is always one like this has been trumps political superpower today is he has the ability to move the purple conversation onto the issues that excite his base and don't you very much for our base and we have to be able to pivot back to the issue. Sat that matter for us, which is economic inequality, healthcare funny for working people in the middle class. Yeah immigrants aren't trying to kick you off your health insurance, Donald Trump and Republicans. Trying to kid you of your health insurance by going to court repeals the affordable care at immigrants, aren't going to keep your wages low or keep you out of work down from the Republicans our by refusing to support a fifty dollar minimum wage and refusing to extend unemployment insurance. You know, I think you just have to continue to bring it back to what Trump and the Republican Party is doing an and reveal what he's doing
duration as a tactic to divide us to avoid blame for what he has done. So, let's talk about the political fight over how to dig the economy out of this crisis. On Tuesday, the Senate passed by unanimous consent, a four hundred eighty four billion dollar corona virus relief bill that will help small businesses avoid, lay ass one hospitals and expand testing, but with tens of millions of people out of work, for God knows, long almost everyone agrees will need at least another stimulus bill. Democrat in Congress Democratic and public and governors, mayors, economists, even Donald Trump, who tweeted about the need for relief to state and local governments, infrastructure and then all kinds of tax, that's the big exception here, majority leader Mitch Mcconnell, some other Republicans in Congress, Mcconnell told reporters that he is concerned about the debt and in its time, to hear pause Sudan, the guy who added about two trillion dollars to the next,
Well, that was a tax cuts that mostly benefited. The rich is now suddenly worried about the dead again. What's going on here, Well, I'm sure that this is a principle. Political position finish, Mcconnell a man known for his principles mean just Media just so absurd. Add just this Aim was cynicism that emanates from everything that man does is its trilling all images. We should always know that Mitch Mcconnell will go down in history as one of the worst most dangerous people ever been involved. American politics here as responsible for Donald Trump. Being president, is anyone else, these more or saucepan? Jumping president than Donald Trump or Van Report, nor anyone else, it is much Mcconnell what he has done to regard democracy, both in the short term water. So he is terrible for there aren't like what he is doing here is. How is he doesn't give a shit operatives because our boat, broader political part, like that's obvious you, you said it- was
He I think there are two things that drive the sentiment. One is for us as Mr Mcconnell is he's, also quite savvy He tends to do is come out and publicly oppose things he privately supports so that when he gets so they in trade them in freedom, him as a concession in negotiation so obviously is very much in our interests to help the economy, because he's trying to hold onto the Senate in about economy economy thus be harder for us, incumbents twin, and so we obviously want to put more money in the economy, but if he comes out against it and Nancy Policy in such a situation of getting the thing, they also want the Mcconnell treaties. A concession aching traded for Thank Democrats don't want sobered savvy and its negotiating negotiated building. Think undermines it is politicians strictly one soup and around forever and since mature economies of empire he is most certainly not around forever.
For there always defined by their most devastating electronics. Experiences like Democrats around the nineteen. Eighty four have this sort. He d SD reaction that gun issues because of the, but I think incorrect view that decent weapons ban went to the Republicans taking Congress and eighty four, a lot of Republicans truly believe that, while the reasons they got collaborated o six in a way, it is because of the huge amount of spending that pushed it on the Iraq war on the tax cuts on, captured from drug benefit. Inciting Mcconnell does have some fear that being painted as pigs Doris is going to diminish republic internet and other gives us a correct about that, but I think that it s dry summit is messaging I mean you think that would go out the window in the middle of a pandemic and spam near depression. You know so I think the issue here is is focused around money to state and local governments, which has been supported not just by Democrats by but by republican governors,
and Mcconnell said this the other day about sending money to state governments quote. We all have governors, regardless of party who would love to have free money and that's why I said yesterday we're going to push the pause button here, because I think this whole business of additional assistance for state and local governments need to be thoroughly evaluated. Mcconnell instead suggested state should be allowed to declare bankruptcy which they're, currently prohibited from doing under federal law. What's this all about. I think this is why, as I was saying and negotiating tactic, because Democrats are very much going to want to give these data was at the centre piece of battle this past week over phase three areas, we have faced were now. If the work it was through, it was there. You have Whereabout word now talking about four o clock.
I so face three and a half part of the big battle of Democrats, one it was this aid to love limits because they are still just their budgets are are being busted by this, because our spending all this money on helping hospitals and doctors and getting in trying to get these get tests from all over the world, because transmigration sucks their tax base, like everyone else, is going way down, because no one's working and what that ultimately means is it for now recognises that the federal government can borrow money to pay for a right, which is exactly what we need these trains of dollars, for hence the deficit tentatives it almost every state has a safe, while the requires them to balance their budget and so, when expenses exceed revenue they have to make cuts, and what that means it often times in is that they are going to have to cut the pay or lay offs state in place. Now Republicans,
what state employees, as name, was faceless, evil bureaucrats both we're talking about. We are talking about public school teachers, fire fighters cops people were on the front lines of fighting the coroner virus, argonauts that health care workers. Schools like this, millions, more jobs here is an economy where people have already lost a lot of jobs ness, and it is just worth just putting a fine point out that the republican position as it is. Ok, for the federal government to borrow money, to give massive task cuts to corporations that did nothing other than a rich, the rich, but they are not ok with borrowing money to ensure that teachers, firefighters and cops do not get laid off the middle pandemic that
their position, that is who they are fighting for in their also specifically going after pensions to Mcconnell, keep saying this like. We don't want to give money to state governments to help fund their pensions because the pensions or why they might have to declare bankruptcy, so so, basically, the retirement of all these people who teachers, healthcare workers, you know Cobb's fire fighters who worked whole lives ever in this pension and now basically Mcconnell saying well not they should just because there is a pandemic fish. They should have to be poor and retirement. That's it! That's not so to be very clear. The position the Republican Party is that they want to cut medical and social security and deny people their pensions yeah like and its immediate suppositions Republican Party does Mcconnell. All these reports in Congress, but, like you, have,
people like Larry Hogan of Maryland, Charlie Baker, Massachusetts like there are a number of republican governors throughout the country who are also asking for this money for this funding and yet then there's Mr Mitchell Mcconnell, who again like you said it is using it as a negotiating shit. What should Democrats do about this? How should they talk about this? How should Bay Approach negotiations with Mcconnell and the other congressional republicans in his next round. Now that you ve had a very good conversation about this on Monday and they should take a maximum disposition and they should pass a Nancy pushing the Democratic pass a face for they should be the one to control the pen on this force Mcconnell to react, and I think how they do. It is very important and it inevitably making this point a recent forecasts that It's gotta be big and bold and progressive by not seem like a Christmas tree where there's a whole bunch of different little things,
on there and because it is ultimately a negotiating and messaging document, and so you want. You want to optimize it for those two factors, as opposed to like what is the absolute all encompassing policy rank as all the things that were in the bill. They almost fat pass and face. Three were might really got things by day. They weren't they don't necessarily help the politics of the bell, so we gotta think about from a political perspective. Would you um? If your policy, would you pass a bail out of the house before sightings? Just negation with Republicans over a bell. Yes, yes, I think they should pass a bell out of the house for sure. It has also you want something to run on yeah like what I don't understand why they wouldn't do this. I do. I do understand why this is hard, and There's like this is always when the conversation that we have with extra
internally about how hard it is to be a democratic leader, is many of policies, members who are not going to want to vote for a bill with a very large price tag that is not going to What like how many Troy mouldy trillion dollar votes you wanna take in one year. Right. You want to save your vote for the things that are actually the bill. That's going to deliver the trillions of dollars to People- and so that is why I think there will be some resistance within her caucus to do that. Now I don't they grew. I don't agree with local calculated. That is a mistake to you're better off, offering voters a road map of what it would look like of unified, democratic control. Then one line in one attack at about what you ve got a virgin you ve already voted for several trillion dollars are what is one more joined up? Did you Marjorie? Those only gets here make up something the political difference, but that will be. I guess it s the internal caucus pressure on policy in leadership I mean-
I understand that in normal times the fear about voting for something with a high price tag, because as much as we know that this whole argument over debt deficits are stupid, we have seen multiple focus groups, multiple poles, where most Americans dont quite get how deficits and debt work and they think to themselves. I have a budget. Why doesn't Washington have a budget so like this is the sort of political calculus that goes on in normal times? I think that Democrats underestimate the pain and anger and re and fury that is building in this country at their peril and like Donald Trump, is in charge right now. Miss Mcconnell is in charge of the Senate right now and I think, like even these frontline Democrats, like look at your districts, talk to the people in your districts who are out of work hooked, who are worried about
rent who were worried that they're going to lose their job, we've already lost their job, can't pay mortgage like. I think that there I don't think there is a price to pay, as there is maybe a normal times about. You know supporting a very big, ambitious bill that focuses on putting people back to work and taking care of people who are out of work and making sure that everyone has health care during this pandemic. Like I just don't think there is, prior to that like there may be in other times you I mean, I think that I think that is most likely correct, but the why, Political reality at the moment is and what drives the inherent political fear and vulnerable politicians of either party are not always the same thing. You know that is to let her go it Joe Biden should do here.
He'S- also been pushing for another big stimulus bill. He's agreed with what most of the democratic leadership is called for, but he has been relatively quiet about the details. Do you think that's just to give human policy room to negotiate this deal because as you know, he's not in office yet, and if so, is that the right player? While I think it is the only play the job I but ever like. There is a world where, if someone was a different- and I think less serious person, and Biden were, you could run against everyone right this is not enough. Washington, fail Jew. I would do x, Y and Z and Joe Biden, is an institutional lessons or he would not do that, but he also knows how to get there and he knows he's planning on
winning the selection and he is planning on trucks humor, be the leader of the Senate, Nancy Policy, being the speaker of the house and working with them to fix the mass trump left them. So he's not going to score political points at the expense of congressional seditious night your sympathy, we isn't, even if that I don't they get cost simpler than the short term, but it like you willing to pass up some political opportunities because it doesn't help the party real large, and I think he I do believe that he wants to be. He does not want, have only victory right. He wants to bring everyone along with him. I get that too, but I also know Barack Obama was also an institutional list and he had the balance in two thousand and eight
the financial crisis appearing as a steady, competent leader who had a lot of experts around him who could get the country through the crisis and also channeling the rage and frustration that people felt towards Washington and Wall Street for what had happened to the economy, and I do think Biden should probably air a little bit more time. On the side of channeling. The the populist anger eulogies at turbines, never gonna be Bernie Sanders Railway. What we get that, but you know Joe Biden- is like middle class, Joe the guy from Scranton, like he does have it within his character to fight on behalf of working people who upset who were angry like he? Yet we have seen him do it before and I do an unlucky I went on his website last night, like he's, got He's got a plan there. You know he's here,
about. You know forgiving ten thousand dollars if student loans, like Senator Warren, proposed: increasing social security checks by twenty dollars a month. A centre widens proposed emergency paid sickly for everyone who needs it making that no one has to pay a dollar out of pocket for covert testing treatment or a vaccine. He's gets fiscal relief to states and and and local governments. He's got a lot of the elements there on his website. I just wonder if he has a sort of do a little bit more to channel that anger yeah. I think that these are sort of two separate, but not inconsistent. Things right, one is Can you channel the anger of the american people? Yes- and he
in the past in the away campaign in twenty twelve, he was very long ago that he is someone who both publicly and privately thinks about an fights for working class people. The people any do here like you and I have been in many economic means which are buying over the years. He always brings up and talks about it in terms any idea that was being proposed. Invariably in a powerpoint by the National Economic Council, he would think it he would bring it up in the context of weather and help the people in the night. He grubbing, Scranton or the neighbourhood of claim, Delaware, near where I grew up. That's where he lives efforts so like he thinks that radiation, is very hard in his defence to community, hate that sitting in a chair in front of a bookshelf. Announcement is really are like data that is very challenging but that is a separate conversation from whether he should
get out ahead of congressional leaders? Are policy ideas you and I Would he I think you can get out ahead in coordination right now? do you think that it would be wise and he said this already thinks of continued you. This is good, is realising the changed massively change economic circumstances of the last month, give him some permission to adopt new, bolder, more power, lest the economic guidelines on that's all. I'm saying I think he has that permission now I mean I think that they are getting there like that. You know they send out a campaign message memo the other day, the bombing campaign where they said there is an unmistakable biased towards giant corporations in the Cares ACT which left out the smallest businesses, the power, so many american communities, blah blah blah Trump, also fired. Inspector general have been charged with our seeing these funds, which is extremely alarming, he's letting hedge funds game system on under paycheck protection programme. So
the campaign, Biden, sort of most effective economic message in an argument you think in terms of the campaign Biden. Sort of most effective economic message in an argument is Why think? Just as we are talking about how, in economic times, people look for someone to blame and they either blame down or they blame up, and just as the change that and I'm circumstances and potentially given trumps immigration, demagogic, re, more potency. I think the change I found. What searches also give democratic populism more potency air. So the way I think this works were Biden is because Democrats helped pass all of these bills. It is hard to attack the bills themselves because Democrats have their hands all over them. Tell her that right, but you can do, is focus on implementation right, make Trump own.
All the big corporations, who were getting loans to small businesses are being denied loads, the checks it didn't get through the glitzy website. Every bit of implementation falls on job in call them on it. Do in the context of a narrative, TAT is a hundred per cent correct, which is trump fights for big corporations and rich people like himself at the expense of working people in I think that's refocused, and I think it Biden should be very good at this, because he was the person that Obama put in charge of managing the recovery act. So he knows how these things work. He saw how Republicans weapon eyes the inevitable mistakes. It happen in the management of large government programmes, and so he can do- and I do make it is. I have begun to question whether Biden has access to time travel, because this imagine this, like thirty, five years ago, I think Biden hired RON Clean out of law school There were firm, and then you flash forward that we are now
a pandemic anymore. The economic crisis in the guy he heard out of law school there's some years ago, is an expert in pandemics and echo recovery. Ask as biogas run quality they help manage that for by those like did he no leg didn't know than at some real like their career, around positive merit, is brought to you by square space, create a beautiful website to turn your cool idea into a new website with squares Who's got I've got an idea for a website for a cool website. Here's what it does write it down takes how you look in a zoom and ended. Makes it a ten percent worse so that when we come back everyone's like while a great that's a good idea, that's a great idea
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protected with twenty four slash: seven emergency dispatch for break ins, fire more all for just zero dollars and fifty cents a day and we're not the only fans of safe? U S news and world report, namely that we save best overall home security of twenty twenty right now, when he had two silver save dotcom, slash crooked artlessness, we'll get a free, simply safe security, camera that simply safe dotcom slashed crooked. To make sure they know that our show sent you from simply safe and all of us here we're we're. The new safety and good health. Ok, we have I'm today to take some of your questions that that you ve been asking various social media platforms. So, let's, let's digging no fewer than before you before, for you get to your interview, Jason Todd floor on Twitter asks we, by in terms of cash on hand, Nobody is talking about this, nor the huge money advantage. The trump has in the general well Tide, We ve been talking about it.
Maybe not applied yet, but we ve been. You haven't. Exit nervously about it, trumps. Money advantage is massive. It is the most massive money advantage that anyone is ever had and we haven't even begun to talk about. The republican Super backs, the CUP brothers and everyone else who will be engaging in this election. He raised a quarter billion dollars last quarter, ah
is an ungodly amount of money. Biden had a very good fundraising quarter where he raised forty six million, but there's a very well reported and quite disturbing near times, article about binds fund raising, which shows that that money mostly dropped off a cliff once the pandemic kit and people are sheltering at home and people can become very sir the crisis, so you Biden as a candidate who, to date to date, has been primarily offline. Fundraiser through you know, he's the he may raises more of his money. Then a bunch of native American, its through high dollar from researchers, and now he is, in his house unable to go to hide our fundraiser. So it is a cause of immense concern yeah. So if you're worried about Diet, Donald Trump winning a second term, you know concerned if you can consider donating job out you know- and people will say this- that pillar
and had way more money to down from two dozen sixteen still lost, and that is true. Joe Biden does not need Donald Trump. Money to any does need more money doesn't as much money, but he does need enough. Right. He doesn't need to wipe away Donald Trump cash advantage and he probably never well, but he doesn't enough money to run a great campaign right. That's right! Ok, then key via the p as a phone some pundits or floating the idea of Biden going ahead in announcing key members of his cabinet. Do you think this is a good strategy still won't come on the path I dont acknowledges that until the matter some day. It is an available option for him. He could take it if we once if we love it as animal starting to do everything we can do to help him. So that's right don't carry their rights. I would even say anything think about the the Tom Friedman strategy There-
We should set urges the Tom Friedman COM, which went around two way too many people that I now and came back to me was, like you know, binding, should announce this big unity, cabin with you know, Republic, then air sea and everyone in between, and we should all sort of like come together and Huggins income by on that kind of stuff. There. I think there is a separate idea of just announcing whatever cabinet he would announce after he becomes president. I would say that that time, free men com, when I was doing my book backwards, we can travel. While I was a boy I was five years ago six years ago, my two months ago ad. And I asked about this column at every step. I went to and the first time I got ass was in a bookstore and I reflexively laugh laughed hysterically and but here's the thing I will tell you. People who go to book events in bookstores, really like Tom Friedman, look I'm
or might might you know that a people I know and love and thinkers very smart who love Tom Friedman too, where just very fuckin so call out old. You know pundits that have been around for de LA does. I I wanna hear those words in my brain every night before going to for my part, I mean look. I think that the resources that I think it is a good idea. I think it is worth exploring. Naming some of them have to enact the like without the SBA administrator now by the, but I May I be aid with other small business. I've got another difficult as it is unfair to the SBA. I apologise, but I Think, there's like it, say always sounds. I want those terrible ideas that people suggest without in contacts of reality, I hesitate to endorse it myself, but so, if here someone who
No, we announce the Treasury secretary designated origin designate. That would give you boy image of view of what is government will look like. Help with some constituencies where some questions about whether how progressive he is gonna, be because you see all the time on twitter witches reality. People saying Joe Biden is gonna point. Jimmy diamond to be his treasure secretary. Which is obviously not going to do and so like you could quell some of the ideas, and I will give you just additional certain did you zoom, chats right I think the surrogate point is well taken. I also think my mind often goes to you know something Biden said towards the end of the primary where, where he told a crowd, you know, I see myself as a bridge to the younger generation right, which is very self aware thing to say that he knows his. You now can be president. Seventy seven years old,
and that the Democratic Party is becoming younger and more progressive? He understands that and I think you could show that by sort of announcing a cabinet that is, that is part of the next generation right there. Presents the next generation and by the way- and I think you know obama- do this to an extent during the economic crisis when he talked to a lotta sort of economic experts and obviously there is a whole debate about who he chose that we don't have to go into right now, but I think is particularly around the economic crisis, and this is point that our are good pals made gonna, show hacks on TAT David acts around and repeat that light
announcing an economic team specifically would actually be held because it would show a sort of exude competence and, like you, have a group of people who can help get the country through the crisis. Now I do think if you do that, there's a premium on selecting people who are not just like smart economy, people but also you know, progressives and and people who are going to send a signal to a lot of constituencies that Joe Biden is going to take sort of helping the middle, the working in middle class and the poor seriously. So I think that would be a good idea. This is the hill I'm gonna die on GDP. Therefore, treasury secretary, I love it. I love it great messenger consumer advocate bridge the next generation. Just is no brainer to me doesn't doesn't take Elizabeth Warren out of the Senate, but which isn't it. You know that because it was with Warren for Treasury Secretary also great, but you know need or sanity some fun stuff Anthony Orlando on Twitter asks let's get to the important stuff. What's in your car,
guaranteeing binge watching rotation Do you wanna tell us John, when you ve been watching yet we ve been watching too hurts a year and a half years living is living general in Non pandemic times. I tend to not watch content. That will make me more anxious and the news already does. I do have some of it, but it usually a high bar, because I feel anxious all day, reading twitter and reading the news, so I usually like to watch more mindless stuff or comedy. I have had even tougher time with all of that it in the pandemic. I can't focus on really good high quality television, so I've been looking for a sort of sillier stuff to watch and Emily an egg hypocrites.
Screw about a handle on ethics. We, which is a reality when it anyone doing to give everyone the plot. Yes, I'm going to about it is that is a pinch of very attractive people that they put on an island from all over the world who aren't allowed to have sex with fish other or even kiss each other, or else they like lose some prize money. That's it that's the plot. You just see what happens and it is, it is wild. And they are some there's some fascinating people that I'll say about that. I am sure that, before this quarantine ends in MID twenty twenty three, we will have watched him up. And there it is obvious they re you and how we always watch the same garbage reality shows that, but ass luck, yeah, we Then we ve actually been watching, obviously below deck sailing out, which is excellent.
So we're very. We very much aware that top chef is on and I would tell anyone who, Looking for something thoroughly enjoyable to binge is go. All seasons, atop chef, I haven't deception is amazing and you do in this environment have to get past. The fact that is almost Syria, peace, because a lot of involves- for eating together in eating establishments, which is not something that we recall here like watching. People have to use, They found in a movie from the tedious, like it's very, very disconnecting, for whereby we we have been watching Mr Merrick hello, oh I wouldn't do that. Grace- is really great. We launched the first cup upsets. We also watched also on hullo little fires everywhere to be surprised, even though you told me to answer a cameo from your brother. That's right if ever I thanks. That's right! That's what she,
would definitely told me- and I definitely forgot parameter for my phone and your brothers tv, which has happened before, but it was it- was out of context there and then I would to anyone who loves words I finally got around to watching the first, you episodes I got accidents. I really want to get up here. It's really great adds a means for them. A white guy. That is like my exact era of basketball, because I, like one of the first, my first basketball memory is being allowed to stay up to watch the North Carolina Georgetown game with my dad, and that should be made the Jordan made so At the beginning of my boss, box runs through everything it so it's it. It would be phenomena robot sports was allowed to exist, but others that one of the questions for, Wednesday. Singer was question for Dan. How are you coming without the NBA, because any tips, nothing. Why? Why wait or I will I will dance, what feels that I think
our old friend the ringer open during this very fine progress areas where they redraft all the previous rafts of your best bought raftered, that's very fun but I will also say that, as they say there's, fanned the season has been stressed, All that I don't think it survive the pandemic. With the six hours not ever scoring out of the taken role like you'd, be more that could possibly take, and so there is this. Why weird SEC relief that I don't have to be mad about. I could never live in a world random watched from press garments which you hours and then, turn on Sixers Rob game in around like that would be more than I can that's that's rough Carolyn Hicks asks And you can you guys chat about the Mark Warner Tuna sandwich debacle from spent that that was I had a lot of people talking about? In other words, they were making a big deal out of the guys just making to do the same and then I watched it and I was just a mean for those of you haven't seen it
I don't know why Mark ordered desire. He needed to do this and share this with the world, but he made a tune, savage like he key dump the tuna but I'm some bread with all the water in from the can he squirts, like ten times too much fucking Mayo on the savage he slabs at it. A piece of cheese on many threats in the microwave for just thirty seconds, which I was want doing did not know that was Mark Warner, the first several times I watched it. We would also have this like weird, like sheen on it like it was from an eighty year. It was kind of IRAN's going on, and I have to tell you I couldn't finish the video. I can It has. The dumping of us know water, and this is me, like why people should enjoy for they like, but there is nothing that I find more disgusting than a tuna sandwich
I lived in a group house in college once where one of my housemaids cut, tuna helper, and it's like little six months for the smell to leave our home, and I would like, if the choice, Edith Tuna MELT or for Paul Ryan. I'd have to the point- I guess I've got to them ass. He asked I dont of tuna either to new areas for centuries and like a well made tuna mouse. I can do and I and I enjoy and which is why we should all be very grateful for common Harris who did an Instagram live last night, where she shouldn't answered him live with. Mark Warner where she taught him the appropriate way to make a tumult and because she is such a great It was like deluxe, intellectually chopped up, celery and red. I'm yemen- and you know she had her husband- do hold my camera the whole time and it was very funny and very enjoyable and was it was a good piece of content to to consume, especially after Mark Warner's troubled
bold attempted to this house. I would love it if more corner staff, some some of whom we know from previous political experiences, could reach out to us. Billy off. The record will not mention, but I want to know the origin will do what the discussion that led to that happening and I dont progression like this- is the most online attention them are going to spend a long time. I think is actually ray. I him the Senate intelligence. You know what I am a hundred percent for this, like you, you have to try lots of things. He barbicane Twitter followers, which also means more people, gonna be meetings in his office for months, where some saffron says. How do we replicate the tuna video together vast more tension. We, we need a like this on the way to raise these. Moreover, we need a tuna video for stimulus oversight. We need a tuna video for Intel funding and I want to be his office. That'll be
every set it off it s bill. It's gonna happen. So Patricia hidden asked us. First of all, each man wanted. They give a primary this and bits of wisdom and sending these crazy times. I unfortunately drink quite a bit of The hall is a copy mechanism to deal with our current political and covert environment. What do you personally due to cope? My recommends and healthier alternatives, but Trish we area. I would say this because I think that this first started it sort of felt like earlier, I felt like ok yeah, you can drink a little more dinner. You can not wearing
clothes time has no meaning watch tv at all hours do whatever. I have found that a couple weeks into this, maybe a month into this month and a couple weeks, I don't know what time it is having some kind of routine has helped me a little bit more. So, like I can't go to the gym anymore, but now I like wake up. I have a time that I work out as opposed to just like sitting on twitter for an hour and a half wondering about the fucking state of the world, and then I make myself breakfast and then I you know actually put some real close on a thin it once work is done emollient. I take a walk round, the neighbourhood we could dinner and I do the dishes. So it's like, I do think giving yourself some sort of routine can help calm you in these times at least, What I found are no have you found anything now quarantine for six weeks with a very cute, very energetic two year old heads
Oh, it survive as I'm out of the window. This also borne away tweet and some terrible human two give you exit this shelter in place without a new game and like new skills, a second language or side hustle figure out. That's on you. I was like that present as out of children like that that's a heart of a world like a book. It's really, I don't have a good answer. It's really hard I the designs, everyone We do a different way we have reached is like you are right. In the beginning, there was the sort of like the world's can end philosopher like take what you want eat? What you want and now like, you shall have to make this fit into you're something there. The daily life. I would say
If you don't want to watch tromp Cuba to our press conference, don't do it here that I find this is hard for us, because our job is to cover the news into injury, the news, but I'm finding that the hardest thing is like the news was bad and makes you anxious always before the pandemic, and now it's just fucking. It's me. Of all, especially because you know, like every story, always use the most extreme examples, everything the most pessimistic examples. The most pessimistic predictions of the future are all the headlines. Donald Trump press conferences can make you insane every day it just bad, bad, bad and partly because there's a lot of bad news at ever, partly because you know bad news always makes headlines, and I find that the trickiest part, because when I I find myself when I specially lay at night or early in the morning, when I'm reading the news or scrolling through Twitter aegis, you can go to a dark places very fast and so to sort of have your news diet be somewhat. You know
no less than less than usual early figure out winter, read the news and we're not treat the news. I think that helps a little that defining nine coveys content in your life is also a mean like you're. Here, between should be get up shower. Put on about was in a pod, save America, other crooked media park ass, and then did I not covet content, which I think that, like that, as rapporteur for private self for sure like but feel free to take a break. I mean, I think, that's been sure the trump here in general and everything is magnified, and this should show last versions. Just came from Instagram real quick. Will there be a season? Three of the wilderness Fuck, I hope not. The whole point is to be out of the wilderness, you're November. So is I love making tissues of the wilderness. I really did, and everyone should, if you have us Missy into yet. Please do we now have a nominee, obviously the world as much different, but I think a lot of the lesson still apply for November, but no, I fucking, I'm not I'll. Probably doing a third season of the wilderness
from somewhere. That is wilderness. I will be somewhere if there is a third season of the evil where you will be if you're doing at you'll be doing at from your house your right anyway. Yes, I, the answer. That is, I hope not. When we come back, we will have Dan's interview with Jason government How does it work? is broadly by frame bridge there is talk about framework, and you know they make it super easy and affordable to frame your favorite things from art, prince and posters to the travel photos sitting on your phone. Remember, travel, but did you did you know that framework also makes the perfect gift this year? Moms deserves something really special and have it dil. Read straight to her door. It's I gotta do something for mom to get out of here. Then, for mom, it's coming up, I mean it is April, still so get some time
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frame, your photos or send mom the perfect gift to go to framebridge dot com and use promo code crooked. To save an additional fifteen percent off your first order go to framebridge dot com, promo code, crooked framebridge, dot, com, promo code, I everyone- I'm Alex, Wagner journalist and co host to show times the circus and now post of the new crooked media podcast six feet apart each episode of six feet apart will offer a window into the hidden worlds at this pandemic. The chaos in feed the resilience and innovation, all of which have been necessary parts of survival. In this extraordinary moment, new episodes of six feet. Apart drop every Thursday subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify stature. Poor, wherever you like to listen to pot, casts the crew. Clear, claimed HBO Film, Dad education Stars Academy award. Now many huge Jackman men have yes her to him. I have oh yeah Wolverine, oh yeah super ripped,
and Academy award winner Allison Janni, how they mention that you went to Canyon College, my alma mater, which often beats John fat. Alma mater on the: U S, news not cause ranking where I'm hovering in that thirty. Two. Thirty, three, the atop anyway, so Jackman Janey play Long Island school director supervisors who find themselves at the centre of a major scandal. It's based on actual events. The story follows huge act, means Frank, too soon, a passionate, the greedy super. And it was hard work and loyalty from his assistant, superintended PAM clucking played by out and Jenny earns their schools national recognition. But when a student reporters puff peace raises some red flag, An intense investigation of the administration begins and Frank finds himself going to great lengths to uphold the illusion of success. Thoroughbreds director Corey thinly depicts with India Wire cause a masterful and he diabolically smart crime story with biting humor
aided by Jackman Janni in supporting passed then includes Re Romano in Geraldine, visible Nathan, Jackman doesn't sing in it were. Why would me I hope he does he's a great singer. He's got pipes anyway, the film premiers Saturday April, twenty fifth at eight p m and each view catch bad education streaming soon? On HBO Max I'm goin now by the chief, did you off? for the above, a White House and a member of the founding team? It Twitter, Jason, Goeben hurry body egg is here, before we get into the nuts and bolts of the campaign. How are you your family dealing with quarantine. Are you enjoying sheltering in place with a small child yeah? we both have that in common, which is being trapped inside with a slow moving Tasmanian devil. Seeks only to destroy so at least keep you busy in Cinema.
I have not. I sometimes think about what the alternative life is run quarantining without a two year. Old is basically that, as I heard someone put it, I would finish Netflix, right now. As done you get that hundreds a complete it you is? Is there something at the end of Netflix? Is there is there. Is there some secret gather that Easter egg. I want to start by asking you about this series of articles that have been out there recently a bow sort of the massive digital advantage that Trump paths there is a new, Times column article from given roosts about binds using the internet. What is your assessment of trumps digital advance
and which are level of concern about a heading into the election. So I think what let's have a good news, because we're not, I think in recent times it seems at least according to acronyms reporting that on the ad spend side, the buying campaign is actually doing better than Trump in terms of spending money on online digital as and spending money on Facebook and that's important, because that is a big gap in twenty sixteen election, where other tools or made available to the campaigns we're just taken more advantage of by tromp and so because the numbers are in the last three is by now spent from eight point three million to five point: three million and that's including five point: five million are versus trumps two point: nine million on Facebook towards a significant amount of over span, which I do take, is good news. So that's because because it was ignored previously and the concern that
you have is, is less about the dollars, then, and more how they think about digital strategy and how Democrats, in general, think about Digital energy and in general I think it's still looks a little bit too much like I did when I joined the White House in twenty fifteen, which is that Digital is this condiment that you sprinkle on top of an already baked communications. Political strategy. You figure out what you want to say and to whom you want to say it, and then you turn it over to some young people to make it go back, and never best illustrated by. I was having harmonization, my early days of the White House with someone were to national security issues, and they said what we really need is an ice bucket challenge to defeat ISIS that to me- is kind of where a lot of conversations about digital strategies still are in democratic politics.
I mean when we talk about trumps, digital advantage, use a term of art is platform again tried. He has an EC seventy five million twitter followers Biden has five. I think right Biden has thirty thousand some. I think. As of last week, supremacists you to channel Trump has many acts that privacy trap as a email western. That is in the tens of millions Biden has won. The we assume is less than that. How would you advised binds campaign to catch up or negate advantage as much as possible? Given the time constraints? Wonder so the I think be. I think the real advantage that drug has online has less to do with the matrix and more to do with the fact that he is embraced, something that you and others have talked about. Just that he is the chief communications officer for his campaign, and he understands that Digital and his twitter feed and his facebook feed and the added he runs all over the place are just different factors of the same message now I know I want to see Joe Biden embrace
winter or aid digital platforms platform, in the same way that Donald Trump has. However, It is an idea there, which is that you can be. You have to have a holistic strategy in which the candidate is the center of that strategy, and all of these different platforms seek to amplify that central message and they're. All thought of as different factors of the same strategy as opposed to what we say the one thing than your time, because everything that really matters and then we'll just click it out to these other platforms. You know, I think, some Shelly folks in the pine campaign. But some Democrats would look at this and say you know in the primary. Bernie Sanders had a massive digital advantage over by no longer directs we're talking about the strategy, we're talking all those we warn people to judge, all had huge digital advantages. Over Biden they were had more did we native campaigns, and yet he widen pretty overwhelmingly. Does that
Do you like it at your ways, one which is he wine because he was more focused on more traditional means, a communications and less focused on retweeting virus, which I think there is some truth that or he wine in spite of that digital disadvantage, which are take. I just think that I think the first, via the things that might have worked in the primary, will be given the work in the general election. You know that the type of things that you need to do to engage really really engage voters or in the primary may not be the same things, and you need to get your message out during a pandemic and what you can't hold rallies or do any of the traditional things you would be doing in a general election across fifty states, and so you know that's that's one big part of it. I do think some of the things that binding has prioritize actually make a lot of sense in it for doing on digital undoing and as the campaign ramp up, for example, focusing on talking to local papers and shocking to local news outlets. We know the people trust their local news outlets alive.
And that was something that, in the general shop in the White House, we really would push for, because you get great clips from that conversation and you could do a lot with them online, so it doesn't need to be in either or an end, that some of the things that actually they they prioritized so far might end up working out for them have you read these stories about? This debate is taking place in the Biden campaign about sort of building up their own digital shop for yes, hiring hawk fish, which, for the islands you do not know, is additional start up that came out of the Bloomberg campaign? Effort? Give it to have any take on with the right thing to do. There is any sense of well hawk fish works, so I mean first of all, I think so. With regard to harvest in the bloomer campaign, I actually think the strategy that they had four Bird was pretty good from a digital perspective. If you're gonna start glum route
Begin work on electoral worked up until up until the candidate had first contact. Where the public got people talk, about a candidate who did wasn't on the ballot and racism in which they were, they were running these campaigns and it was reminding people of his core value, which is that he's gonna spend a shit on his election and he is willing to put his money behind it and do all these unconventional things which may be as the right kind of electoral argument against strong. It didn't work, because, He showed up- and I completely dismantled by Elisabeth worn, which underlies the key point, which you can't have some gene
make it go virus on the ground digital strategy. If it doesn't talk here in any way with who your candidate is and what that Canada is actually going to do out on the debate stage or on the campaign trail or on the stamp on tv interviews or anything, you're, just gonna have something that got a lot of people talking about it for a couple days and then it's gonna be completely undermine. So I think that's my concern with the idea of looking A third party did your consultancy as being the magic bullet. One stop shop for digital strategy, because the temptation will be that they come up with a really creative, interesting stuff. But it has absolutely no coherence with who Joe Biden is the values that he's trying to expressing Eric and people who have a campaign is going to run. So. For that reason I worry about the complete outsourcing of a digital strategy, and I think instead it needs to be more. You know with within connected to their commissioner, you know there is it's interesting quote in that story had won the hawkish stories were
an unnamed adviser divine campaign said our current digital team packs a hell of a punch and we're looking forward to expanding for the general election, I think that's interesting for survival. That would have to be off the record second, I seem very backward, but second, that that the poor, the quotas that we we punch well and that kind of pugilistic language may since coming from the Joe Biden campaign that likes or better reflects something that you think about when you think about Joe Biden end. It reveals a fact that the unnamed communications person gave that quote understands that their communication to the press, even if unnamed needs to cook here- HU there candidate is- and you need to see that on the digital side as well, that's what I worry about if they just completely turn it over. I dont know who that quotas are not suggesting this person, but Rob Clarity, who is their digital director is very, is very talented, very strategic got into their like. I do agree,
They have punched above their way, even if it doesn't seem that way from sort of the way we think about it. You know we talk platform advantage in the sense that Europe is more Facebook fans are more interim followers on twitter virus, whatever else but trouble. So has why I try to disruption terms an algorithmic advantage. We ask: is here message of outrage in fear is the one that is favoured by the the algorithms work jointly on Facebook, and I cannot would not and should not run a campaign that is outraged base like that's not how we as a witness they work with his voters. How do you think in this is that this is the question that you are tackling in the White House for Obama, which is how can a candidate who's trying? Rhine, decency or hope, or policy ideas, how can they get attraction, on wine, in a culture that sort of dominated by trolls and outrage
I think this is a really important point, because I don't think we should understand the fact that the current our those in the current systems are set up to value, outrage and reward outrage and there's all these really weird feedback loops they're getting expose even now, during pandemic that make it really bad. As a concrete example, will arenas had an interesting post on one zero? about what happened with the fire foul GI? What's going on some, these protests campaigns were what's happening as people on the side of a collective action, and what's that, in a country that a plan are reacting negatively when they see these images of people saying Fire voucher euros a year, including the president and and and protesting in front of their capitals and our amplifying those hashtags, and so they D.
And up trending. More relate arrest in article described it as a kind of an auto immune disease. That's happening where there's this perverse amplification of the thing that you don't want to have happened. So even people who are against the thing, that's that their outraged by are our feeling it and ending up affecting trending topics and there's there's the platform should be thinking about how to fix that in a more and more concrete way than they have. However, that being said, we know that our rages in the only thing that works on line, I mean, first of all, as you Jane, you know. Bravo bomber did not do outrage online Bronco Burma was elected twice and govern under under a completely different emotional spectrum of of hope and engagement and highlighting what was common among the american people in that's. What is digital strategy reflected in and I think was successful. However, doubling isn't even true. Just within the realm of politics, you see folks like stuff courier Lamentable Miranda who wonders
and are you know, who's Andrea, who understand how to use their platform to reach people on an emotional level that is positive and that spurs them into action. All three of those people who have used their platform did register people to vote or get people to donate meals and- and I think I think that's the other side of the coin than actually does work. And and Joe Biden is really opposition for this moment, where were in need of some one showing us that there's you there's a way for empathy and common understanding to lead us out of the worst crisis of our lives. Did you see the video that he taped with Joe Biden and his granddaughter just yet yeah. I guess I assume you think that's an example of the kind of thing that can work for him, yeah I think the reason that works is because in this moment people are looking for things that feel vulnerable. People are looking for things that feel intimate, and they are that's why you know people were hanging out on zoom, chats and hang
in Instagram wives, all night, because it gives you this feeling of something. That's that's raw! That's intimate that in your bedroom and let's get you can see and feel not is alone in a time of very scary, and Donald Trump does not have that year at all is exclusively as a lane that exclusively available to Joe Biden, even if he worked the type of candidate and type of person that he is an that he is in fact very good at those type of things I think will with something that you should look into the guys. I would give the campaign, It's just you have to do more of them. You just have to do more stuff with digit. A lot of it. Is you just need more swings at the back? You only get one chance to you, no kind of interview with the editorial border than your times a dynamic process for that, but you can do lots of different things online and some of them are gonna, be does, and sometimes the computers don't work in your trapped in a room with President Obama is wondering why hide this guy's gonna use computers, grasped that should happen. Do theoretic.
A person, but you know you just keep trying you just trying things until you find that works for the combination of what your messages and who your candidate, who you're candidates, The context the conversation is we ve been having is about how politics is conducted on the left right? How does Trump get his message out? How does buying get this message out, but of the elements that was so critical onto. Doesn't sixteen wise, specific efforts at disinformation, where the interstate base from Russia, whether they are being fuelled by domestic troll farms? National drove arms What is your sense of how the Democratic Party enemy arguments, evanescent fur folks, who have flush twenty sixteen down their memory hall no you look at articles with here- is another engagement on Facebook, many of them from two thousand sixteen contained totally false pieces of propaganda pillory. Was endorsed by ISIS Fbi agent. We worked on the
an investigation found dead in apartment Pope indoors, is tromp, which young people believed what seems crazy Like that's going come back now, it's gotta be more sophisticated. I know Facebook and twitter have taken? Some steps spoke Democrats, I've We have to have a plan to deal with this information. We references article medium, which I think gets at this but what's your take on where Democrats are on them, against this information and when you think we did, we do it. I think I think it's gonna be as well. From? If not worse, I really don't. I dont think that disinformation is going to be solved for this election cycle and and in some ways we just don't have the right amount of tools to what I particularly homegrown domestic. We do it to ourselves. Disinformation and I were much more about that than the the foreign kind of yellow state actor variety, because, as as the example with the fire of algae hashtag, or that the liberal protest,
we're really doing it to ourselves, and one of the reasons we are is because the other side has this tremendous propaganda, amplification machine and right wing, media and I want to get back up. I want to get back to the digital side of things, but I think it's worth emphasising how big a part of the overall disinformation problem is really because of right wing media Yo Guy Bank, learn and other authors, or this book I'll, never propaganda and came out twenty eighteen. I think it's still relevant now as it was then in which they can do more. Backdoor analysis of all the things that happen into the twenty sixteen cycle. With regard to this, imagine what really was what what were the biggest levers and they find consistently that its conservative me and the reason for that is that none of the voters, your loyal tromp, are less likely less likely to be online. These stories
This did online, but then got supercharged by right wing media and that's what allowed other elected and other politicians to pick them up, and we don't really have any. As you know, one of them. About. We don't really have the antibodies too that to that system yet and we're seeing it just play out in a supercharged way during the pandemic. So that's I think, of real concern. On the digital side. I think that some of the platforms have taken more steps than they have previously article two particular with the guy's, a political act. I think, with a pandemic, your seeing things change faster. For example, just this morning, my three hours ago, Google announced that they're gonna start. Doing you're gonna be able to see transparency for who placed any add. Ons will not just political ads Think is a move in the right direction and with the times, a that all the platforms on in varying with various other successor seriousness to take down disinformation about the pandemic are also no
worthy because they violate the central tenet that the platforms have tried to shoot. Which is that we do not have an editorial wrongness with a pandemic found something that was so important that the plan that excuse just one fly and they would have to say, were ok. We with obviously do this because people are going to drink, you know aquarium bleach and we got it. We got a trader, we gonna try to protect people, and I think we're going to see that the slope isn't that slippery and that platforms can We do more than heretofore. They want to do. So my question for you, the inner theirs. Firstly, a very real possibility that if this and be the zoom election where, where justice, the typical means by which we campaign rallies. Knocking committee person communication with other human beings is now going to be on the table for Fur Biden, tromp or anyone involved in this life
Are you seeing or hearing anything and digital world that are interesting tool or strategies for how we could six as for way politic, and our environment I mean I think people are tries up. You know I mean unsurprisingly, folks, like air sea, are good in this environment and are doing stuff on Instagram Ike answering questions from folks while doing stuff. It means it is really the same kind of stuff that she was doing before, but it just really works network. You know she's cooking and our kitchen working in our kitchen she's answering questions like questions I need answered about. What's going on, it's perfect for the moment, I don't know what the early results are in terms of ivy Instead of seeing some data in some of these telephone town halls, I could see them being very successful project with a demographic that maybe less online and that's less posted in hang out and watching you know, Instagram live
so I be interested to know what the sort of reaches on those by the one We're done only seeing is that people are spending a lot of time online. Like you know, there's five hundred thousand people, logging. In trying to get in not able to get in to see you know a baby face battle, right here. I mean you know you can't you so I can get in there that so I think I think you know that the point is not that you know absorbing should go book. Battle with baby faced by more than you know that there is a pint of demand for people to have community experiences. They connect with other people to feel a sense of engagement or your through being at home, but using the tools that we already have? I don't think we need a special magic tool that doesn't exist. I just think folks need to try more things and do them more often and dont be afraid of the first one. Doesn't work Jason Gorman. Thank you. So much thanks are being our pod. Save America and we'll talk is an excellent.
Faced Jason for joining us today have a great weaken and we'll talk in its we by everyone, Pod. Save America is a product of cricket media, the executive power There is Michael Martinez, are assisting producer, is Jordan Waller its in edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle segment is our sound engineer things two tonnes. So Maneater, Katy, long, roman puppet Dimitrios, Caroline resting Annalisa Gutierrez for production support into our digital team larger cone, Normal Coney and Yell freed in my local who film and upload these episodes is videos every week
Transcript generated on 2020-05-01.