The most innovative companies are going further with T-Mobile for Business. Together with Delta, we're putting the world on the line. 5G into the hands of ground staff so they can better assist on-the-go travelers with real-time information. From the Delta Sky Club to the JetBridge. This is elevating customer experience. This is Delta with T-Mobile for Business. Take your business further. At T-Mobile.com/NOW. - You might have a group chat to dissect your latest lapse in judgment with your girls. But when it comes to the Supreme Court ruling... On women's organs and ignoring oath bringing insurrectionists. It would take more than an emoji reaction to figure out what it all means and how it affects you. Rooney comes in. Think of us as your personal group chat for all things SCOTUS-related. If everyone in your group chat had constitutional law degrees or was constitutional law curious.

Bad decision and giving you so much inside scoop on court culture Andy Cohen is shaking in his boots wait who is that again find new of Strict Scrutiny every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts, and now on YouTube. And with a track record of the current court, there will be a lot to discuss. Just wanted to let you know that we recorded this episode a few days before the debate that has changed everything. But we still want to bring you the episode that we recorded because the concerns that you're gonna hear from these voters Are concerns that they expressed before the debate and they are concerns that they will express after the debate. I'm sure so With that here's our episode

That's sort of where young people sit generationally in history in general is like, we are always the group of people that are gonna be fighting. And begging and demanding change. Like, we're never gonna be okay with what the status quo is. So even if Biden has been the most progressive president, I think young people are always going to be the group that pushes us to be better, to have a more And fairer society because we've always been that way on every civil justice fight that's existed in my opinion. So I think just need to do a better job at talking to them. Anderson Clayton is a. 26-year-old voter in a swing state who wants to see a generational shift in our politics.

Just like most Gen Z voters. What makes her different is that she decided to run for state party chair in North Carolina and is now the youngest person in America to ever hold that title. We called her up to talk about what she's hearing from young voters in North Carolina as she tries to flip the state this November, a tough challenge in a place that's only competitive because of an electorate that keeps getting younger and more diverse. For a few decades now, young voters Have been a big reason that Democrats win elections. In 2020, over half of 18- to 29-year-olds voted, low compared to other age groups, but still the highest youth turnout since the voting age was lowered to 18. Time ever. There were more Gen Z and millennial voters combined than there were baby boomers and the silent generation. And these voters supported Biden by around 20 points more than Trump. A huge gap that we also saw in the 2018 and 2022.

Midterms. But there are warning signs everywhere that 2024 may not look the same. You see it in polls, you hear it in focus groups, and you've probably heard it anecdotally. A lot of younger voters seem more disillusioned and angry than usual about politics, the two parties, and their presidential candidates. Democrats have always had challenges getting younger people to actually vote, but this time There's a concern that even if they do vote, they might not support Biden or other Democrats. By the same margins they have in the past. The big question, of course, is why. And what would actually motivate young voters to get out and help defeat Trump and MAGA politicians with the same turnout and margins that we saw in 2018, 2020, and 2022? Anderson what she thinks. I think that parties in previous years have been the ways that people are motivated to turn out and vote, but I think in terms of young people, I think that in terms of young

People issues are going to motivate them a lot more this year and in future generations and in future cycles of political organizing that we're going to see. People really care about specific policy issues. Finding a job, finding a house, being able to live, like deciding where they want to. Do they want to start a family? Do they not? Like, that should be their decision to make at the end of the day. Gaza, and I, because I think about it, I'm like, that is the one issue I hear so much talked about when we put young people in that category. We have heard the president call for a ceasefire. We've heard the vice president call for a ceasefire. Like, I am not negating that that is a huge issue for a lot of young people, especially a lot of politically active young people that are aware of that issue, have been aware of it, and know what's going on. What's going on and I've also come into a political awakening on it. But I also think that like young voters especially.

In the south right now have seen our rights be fundamentally stripped from us. And I think that people here in this region of the country care a lot about what is happening level and at the local level because it is causing us to not be able to see a future staying in the state that we grew up in, that we care about, that we want to live in for the next 50 years. And so a lot of those issues look like housing. For watching. Chapel Hill had two school shooter drills last year alone, and they had a faculty member that unfortunately was killed with an active shooter on one of their campuses. And that came from our state legislature repealing the pistol permit vote that came down in 2023. And we have seen this legislature come for young people. And I'm like, God, if I can't...

Get y'all motivated by the fact that these people are literally stripping away your fundamental freedom. I don't know what more I can do in this election cycle. This will sound repetitive, but, contrary to the impression you may get from the news and social media, it turns out that the majority of young people care most about the same issues nearly every other group of voters cares about. Their cost of living, their basic rights and freedoms, and the safety of their communities. The difference is, they are more doubtful than most that the people who represent them will actually be able to deliver for them. Especially when those politicians' life experiences seem so different and distant from their own. I tell people all the time, I'm like, young people got to organize young folks, like, did you listen to your parents necessarily? Probably not. Like, we listened to them. People in the community that is around us and like, what is our voting block feeling about this election cycle? Do they feel the do

And gloom that's provided to us every day with a phone screen that tells you you can do nothing about politics whatsoever. You can't change it. Or do they listen to the person that's out there in their you know group chat that's saying hey I'm going out to knock doors today for jokes Biden and for Kamala Harris or for Josh Stein and for Allison Riggs, who's running for Supreme Court in North Carolina. I need you to come out with me. Let's go out and knock doors for a candidate that actually who wants to see a future that envisions young people in it in this community. Anderson's last point is an important one. Even though younger voters have the same concerns as other generations, they have the longest future ahead of them. And they're not going to participate in a political system that doesn't focus on that future, especially when it seems so uncertain right now. So how do we convince young voters that their participation is the only way to fix what's broken about politics?

How do we get more Anderson-Claytons? Or even just enough young people who are willing to stave off the threat of Trumpism again? A few weeks ago, I caught up with two people who've been talking to young voters and asking these questions for years. John Delavope and Kristen Soltis Anderson. John is an advisor to the Biden campaign, the director of polling at the Harvard Kennedy School of Politics, and the author of Fight! Channeling their fear and passion to save America. Kristin is a pollster who leads focus groups for The New York Times and is the author of The Selfie Vote, where millennials are leading America and how Republicans can keep up. You'll hear our conversation next.

Followed by more from Anderson on what's happening on the ground in North Carolina this year I'm Jon Favreau. Welcome to the wilderness All right, so we are talking this season about different groups of undecided voters

who aren't yet sold on Joe Biden or Donald Trump or even voting at all. And I wanted to talk to the two of you because one of the biggest mysteries of this election is what's going on with young voters, a group both of you have spent years polling, studying, talking to, writing entire books about. So I guess the first thing I'd love to hear your thoughts on is this. Historically, the debate about younger voters has been whether or not they'll show up. Still a big question in this race. But now there's a debate about who they'll vote for. We've seen some polls like yours, John, like the most recent CBS poll that show Biden maintaining roughly the same advantage with younger voters that he had in 2020. Other polls that show Trump gaining quite a bit of support among these voters. John, what do you think's going on here?

It really is dependent upon the definition of a pole, definition of the sample. The pole that you're referring to, which is the 25th year at Harvard shows among... I'm not saying that the race is relatively normal. In other words, the Democrat, you know, five or six months out when we conducted the survey, is in the mid-50s. Republican, somewhere in the mid-50s. Republican, sometime in the somewhere in the... So, among that relatively narrow set of likely voters, that's kind of the of what I see and I think that's what was reflected in the CBS YouGov poll over the weekend. When we broaden that up, when we look at registered voters, when we look at the numbers, when We look at the entire 18 to 29 year old cohort or when we add in third party and independent

and the candidates, the data becomes more opaque. And I think that's where we see a significant shift relative to what we would expect to be at this point. But right now, where I sit, it looks-- All too abnormal when we look at likely voters. - Kristen, what do you think? - I think that I look at polls like John's and I put a lot of stock in them because they are specifically looking just at young voters. Online panels that are matched back to the voter file in our data. That's one way that we try to ensure good data quality, but it doesn't fix everything. And so if you asked me, what do I trust more?

You do pretty consistently see a story of young voters being not that in love with Joe Biden, nor that in love with Joe Biden. May be being open to the idea of voting for Donald Trump, but they are not conservatives, they are not Republicans, and that's an important distinction to make. - Okay, I wanna take a step back and talk about what you guys have been hearing from young voters. John, you've been conducting focus groups in town halls all over the country, some of which you've generously offered to share with us today. Let's start with some general views from voters in Columbus, Phoenix, and Atlanta. About politics, government, and what it's like to be young in America today. Who agrees with that? Like, when you turn 25, everything kind of sucks. Is that what you said, someone? 23. I'm 23.

Raise your hand if you connected some way to what Chelsea said. Once you turn 25 or so, everything kind of sucks. Raise your hand and keep them up there for a second. As soon as I got out of high school. - Almost everybody. - Yeah. - Kind of building off of that, a lot of the issues that we're facing in this country are systemic and they are primarily based in capitalism. And it would be great if we could address gun violence and reproductive rights and the cost of living. But when I see these things on the news and I think about it. And at the end of the day, I don't think the government's coming to save anybody. I mean, we're all so reliant. They're still over here trying to sit here and say, Oh, we're all over here.

Majority of politics are like extreme left battling the extreme right. And it's like majority of people fall somewhere in between and don't have to be arguing about every single policy that they have absolutely no say in it. So I picked those because I thought they were fairly representative of the sentiment I heard from most of these voters. Frustrated, pessimistic, pretty cynical about politics and government. Kristin, does that track with what you've seen and heard? It does. And I got to say it makes me so sad that so many of them said, oh yes, upon turning 25 everything sucks. Just like side note, actually.

Is that on the one hand, objectively, there are lots of things that actually are really great about being a part of humanity at this moment in time. It is way better to be a human today than it was 100 years ago, than it was 200 years ago, even than it was 30 years ago. And so it just, I feel like we are living in a moment where there is a lot of reason After you like really sells this day in age. And I worry that we have a generation that has really fallen captive to this notion that they are victims of something that.

Can't control and therefore just go blame everybody else. Everything's terrible. They're not wrong to think that politics is frequently awful. They're not wrong to think that the two parties are not doing a good job of representing an awful lot of voters in America. I don't mean to say this to be Pollyanna-ish, but it just it makes me so frustrated because I think back to the millennial experience, right? And maybe we were optimistic in a way that was unwarranted. As maybe the pendulum swinging back the other way. We were optimistic and then reality came and hit us in the face. And for Gen Z, they're going to start off really cynical about everything.

Is going to be terrible forever. They just think it's going to be terrible until their cohort is in charge. And they do believe in the power of government to solve those challenges. They distrust government. They distrust the current government. But they do think that government and a robust government. Should have a responsibility to address some of these underlying systemic issues that you heard in those clips. John, I was just going to ask you, this does seem, when I hear these voters, seems like a particular challenge for the party that wants people to believe that government can be a force for good and for progress, doesn't it? Well, that is, I think, is one of the questions, one of the main questions I have about-- Entire electorate, which is, as Krista knows, that young people generally vote when they can see the difference that voting makes, right, for themselves, for the communities, And where they're not able to connect those dots, they are less likely to be open to messages.

From either candidate and certainly less likely to vote and to participate. And the big disconnect I think we see kind of in this cycle is Of their agenda as the Biden-Harris administration. I think when I ask young people -- Yet they're not able to see that they're not able to feel that and therefore I think skepticism grows It's always been a challenge with younger people because when you're older, I can measure we all have money in the...

In our 401 or in the stock market. You know, older voters know that their prescription drug coverage will be cost. Those are tangible differences that government make. For younger people, it's hard to measure in the day-to-day. The climate, you know, or gun violence prevention, those sorts of things. And I think that adds to the cynicism and one of the more challenges we have to connect with them. This show is brought to you by Zillow. This show is brought to you by Zajcu37.com. Is sponsored by BetterHelp. Do you tend to compare your life to others? Does social media play a part in that? It does. What do you do when you get caught up wishing your life looked like someone else's? You know what? That's not my problem. I don't get the like envy, but you know what I Do you do? I decide to use social media. I weigh in on things that suck and then terrible people criticize you and you could tell yourself It doesn't matter but it actually does bother you. Yeah, I do let strangers get I'm just I'm I've just started deleting tweets cuz I'm like, you know what I just I don't care I don't

Need to let someone attack me all day long for no reason. You want to talk about it a little more? I think this should go deeper, which is why BetterHelp is a sponsor of this show. Tommy, Tommy, comparison is the thief of joy. It is. And it's easy to envy other people's lives. It might look like they have it all together on their Instagram, but in reality, they probably don't. You want instead of what others have so you can start living your best life. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists any time for no additional charge. John, you can cut others down or you can lift yourself up. BetterHelp wants you to choose the latter. - The line that will undoubtedly appear in just a dozen convention speeches. Stop comparing and start focusing with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/psa today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com/psa.

Hey guys, our new book, Democracy or Else? How to Save America in 10 Easy Steps is finally out and available now. At this point, we all know what we're up against, American democracy is in crisis and that can feel daunting. That's why in Democracy or Else? we broke down all the lessons we learned from years working on campaigns and hosting Pod Save America into 10 steps you need to get informed, to get involved, to get off the sidelines. And it's not just a useful step-by-step guide to get you through this year. It is packed full of jokes and unhinged illustrations. That will keep you laughing and save you from drowning and your sense of existential dread. Thank you again to everyone who's bought the book so far. Crooked Media is donating its profits to support Vote Safe America and progressive campaigns in 2024. So the book is already making a difference. Haven't ordered your copy yet? There's no better time than now, or head to crooked.com/books to grab yours now.

I'm Jon Favreau and we're back with another season of The Wilderness. Be a close race. I think this thing is going to be decided by a few thousand votes in a couple swing states. But we're not here to make you panic. We're here to keep you busy. To give you the same kind of info and insights that campaigns have about this election so that you can get out there and convince people to be part of the anti-Trump coalition that beat him last time. you think could be pivotal. -This election isn't about rewarding or punishing Joe Biden or Donald Trump. It's not about them. It's about us. It's about what will happen to the people we care about, and what will happen to the people who need our help.

So join us on The Wilderness. New episodes of The Wilderness release every other Sunday in the Pods of America and on the and wilderness feed. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. - Kristin, I am prone to think and have argued that a lot of the doomerism is a result of the media infrastructure. Environment that this generation is growing up in. And, you know, we're millennials, like we went through 9/11 and the Great Recession, right? So we had our share of problems too. You know, and then I hear from Gen Z, people in Gen Z who say, Well, no, no, we're dealing with, it's not just the media that we're watching, we're dealing with these terrible problems. Don't just blame the media or TikTok or anything else. And I do wonder if--

It's really the media environment. Would that mean that young people who aren't as tuned into politics, who don't consume as much media, would they be more hopeful? less cynical and pessimistic. Have you guys seen that at all in terms of like the split between very engaged young voters and not so engaged young voters? Well, what I think is interesting about this generation too is that even I'm going to rewind the clock for me back to when I was that age, because I am an old millennial, I am not this is Like a real misconception that I find a lot of people have they think millennials are young no no we're like ancient at this point um but that being interested in current

events is now, it is much more the norm. It is much like being tuned in. That does not mean watching hours of cable news each week. That's not what I mean. But it is no longer just the province of like the kids on the debate team. That it is the thing that like the most popular influencers are talking about when something big happens like the Dobbs decision. Like the influence of politics and discourse around issues is not just siloed off into. To politics brain anymore. And I think that explains a lot of things. I think it explains a lot of why Gen Zers driving their boomer bosses crazy by wanting their companies to take stands on political issues that for an older generation there was a little.

More of a siloing of your political views are over here, here's what I do for my job, here's my family, here's my church, and like those walls are all coming down for a younger generation that the same person they are getting beauty tips from is 30 seconds later telling them your reproductive rights are under assault. That those worlds have blended in such a way that I actually don't necessarily differentiate like young people who are less tuned in because it's like less tuned into what? Anybody who is not paying attention to political podcasts is probably following sports news or beauty influencers and you can get political news that way in a way that you probably weren't 20 or 30 years ago. That's fascinating. I hadn't thought about that. All right, so just about every poll shows that the economy is the top issue for young voters as it is for all voters.

True for concerns about affordability, cost of living. I will say the sense of frustration and hopelessness feels more acute with young voters than with a lot of the other voters I've heard. And it came up in every single focus group in town hall that John sent us, Columbus, Phoenix, Irvine, Atlanta, and Detroit. - Great, let's listen. - For example, I'm paying 2,000 for a two bedroom apartment to rent. And that would cover their mortgage on like a mansion when they were younger. Years at school and I've been applying for jobs for the last four months. It's been hard finding places and a lot of places don't want to email you back. Give me much hope after I just spent four years in college trying to work hard for this degree and can't even get an email back saying sorry we recommend somebody else. It seems obvious to people older people don't understand how expensive everything has gotten before he was younger.

I worked really hard to move into a more middle class lifestyle and then immediately was pushed into a lower class lifestyle from the cost of living. A lot of younger people pick up a lot of jobs and lose a lot of jobs very quickly. And a lot of older people will feel like... That's unprofessional that you may get a job quick, get another job quick, but the rate we going and the pay we making is you don't have an option to stay where you're not getting what you deserve or what you should get. So they don't Understand the severity of staying in a place where you're not making enough money to survive. That alone they feel like you should overwork yourself and become a slave to your job so you can make bare minimum. Looking to buy a house right now, but it is something I would like to do one day and it feels like that goal.

Gets further and further away. Like by the time that you get to where you want to be, that benchmark has moved up again. Now, you look at economic statistics and see that the unemployment rate is very low for young people. Inflation has come down. The data doesn't seem to suggest that young voters are doing worse than others. Generations. So I'm curious like have you guys heard similar economic angst from Millennials or Gen X when they were this age or something different happening with Gen Z? John? This is different. This is different. You know John and Kristen and probably 20 summers, you know, doing similar sorts of town halls and focus groups, you know, from the advent of the Harvard Youth Poll and I think like I found the vibe in the rooms in 2017 different when Trump was in office in terms of the fear.

Anxiety and the concern. I'm hearing the same thing but in the economic perspective that I had never heard of before. And in addition to that though, the other thing I'd be interested in, in Kristen's perspective The other thing which I'd never heard or seen before is there's barely a focus group or a town hall. The town halls I'm talking about 24, 25, 30. People that I can assemble where a member or two had not already been homeless, feel like they're on the verge of homeless, you know, or something similar. So it's like the qualitative experience of the anxiety, which I think some context could be helpful, right? From all of us, one, but there are is real, you know, kind of a connection to being without a home at such a young age that I think

We need to listen to and take seriously. - Yeah, I will say that when I have done these focus groups too, like the one issue that relates to cost of living that comes up is housing. And I do think you can say that like economic statistics are what they are, but housing, especially both rent and mortgage and with interest rates. Where they are like that is quality. I mean, that is much different than it has been. But Kristen, what do you think? What have you been hearing? Yeah, I would say that what. I am hearing the Gen Z angst compared to say the millennial angst. They are not twins, but they're cousins. For the millennial angst, it was acute. Concern about the ability to get a job that really was backed up by the economic data at the time.

For Millennials, that was the we were the generation where a lot of the hey, you know what if you want to set yourself up well in life what you need to do is Set aside 10% into your retirement fund and you need to buy a house You need to get married and you need to go to college College and get a degree. And we were the generation that started to go, Are you sure about all that? Because the housing market just collapsed and I do have a college degree and I can't really get a good job. And so our generation was more the one where all of these things that we were told we were supposed to do. Started to go, I'm not so sure about that. Gen Z is just kind of outright rejecting them from the beginning and saying like, I see through this facade. I'm not interested in participating in this farce. And that's where their anxiety is coming out. But so take some...

Like housing. For the millennial generation, the problem would have been that the economy is so bad and you can't get a job that pays enough to save up enough for the deposit. Where for Gen Z, now we're in a world where it's harder than ever to say qualify for a mortgage because they've now changed what it takes to do that. The interest rates are higher. So they may have a very different job environment, wage environment, but at the same time if they're having to spend it all on groceries then it's hard to save it up anyways to be able to pay. For that down payment. So it's, they are not identical but they are similar. I do think that most young people come into adulthood and find that being an adult is very hard, is very challenging and you're suddenly facing... With all sorts of things that maybe the school system or life has not prepared you for adequately when you get there. And you're right to be pretty ticked off about that. I'm not trying to necessarily

Back my earlier dismissal of young people's angst, but to say that if you are... 25 and you are frustrated that you cannot afford a home. You're not wrong to be frustrated that you cannot afford a home. If you are 25 and you have a ton of student loan debt and a degree that you think is not paying off, you're not wrong to be upset about that. But I do also think that it's important to keep in mind what is the median experience, right? So college for student loan debt. John, I'd be curious for your take on this. I hear that as a concern amongst political elites a lot. Oh my goodness, this is going to be something huge that drives young voters. But a majority of young people don't necessarily have a four year degree or that's not part of their life plan anyways. And so I also do wonder how much some of this anxiety is rooted in the attention that gets

voices of those who want to attend expensive colleges or get an apartment in an expensive urban area versus kind of the median Gen Z experience, which may not look like that. John, what do you think? Yeah, I think that. But I think a couple of things, one of which is the most anxiety I hear is actually from So that stand out to me, one's from Detroit and one was from Columbus where people after they graduated college or community college were expecting quote that you know working Class lifestyle and they're already saying they're falling behind and may never be able to kind of to catch up. And I think a lot of it is just like the cost of of even rental income, right? So I think a lot of it isn't, I think it is that kind of lived experience. The one word that kind of connects all this for me is stability. Younger people are looking for some place where they can find some stability.

There is no stability in the political system today. There is no stability when we look at where the world is right now, and there's very little In their own home or in their neighborhood. And that is, I think those three combinations, is really what's really driving a lot of anxiety and angst and I can't and I want to hear what Kristin's perspective is on this but I would throw out like hey You know, what do you think? The stock market, when was the last time the stock market had a record? Yesterday. I can't convince someone that. Their life is getting better even though the stock market is getting better or even the unemployment rate It's how they feeling it and perceiving it at this moment in this very, you know Part of their other overall, hopefully, adult experience. So I want to pick up on what you said about stability.

Because in general, I think that this axis of chaos versus stability is going to be totally decisive in this election. I think that voters overall are craving stability in what they feel has been a very chaotic last eight to 10 years of American life. At the same time, I struggle with how to square that with some of the young people whose voices we just heard in those clips that you played where they're saying, I want to tear down the system. And to bring it back to the 2024 election, that's exactly the kind of rhetoric you would hear from someone who... Was a low-engagement voter who decided to turn out in 2016 for Donald Trump and who, I think, in 2024, is susceptible to turning out for Donald Trump because they still want that wrecking ball-style approach. And maybe there are, FK Jr. curious or what have you, but I think what's so interesting about you

Voters is that on the one hand I agree that they would like some ability to you know feel like they have financial security to feel like They have housing security and those sorts of things. But aren't they also the generation the most likely to say, I want to blow things up? Yeah, well, I think it's fascinating that we're talking about the two candidates and the two parties. And we're talking about it on the axis of chaos versus stability, which I-- I tend to agree with, or tear it all down, or keep the system we have. It does seem like the traditional, maybe pre-Trump Republican message that government should get out of the way would not necessarily be attractive to these voters. But it also seems like they're skeptical that Democrats will be able to actually deliver on their promises to help make life more affordable. So where does that leave both parties in terms of-- do you guys think there are economic messages that would resonate with young people.

That aren't just, I'm gonna tear it down. I'm not gonna tear it down. I'm gonna keep things the way they are. I'm gonna change things. Like, do they have any sense of sort of like an economic message that's appealing to them? John? The first time I conducted a survey many years ago when I was asking questions about capitalism, socialism and other things where I found a majority essentially rejected capitalism. And I learned very quickly through follow-up focus groups that it wasn't like a rejection of the system itself, it was essentially a rejection of how it was In the next video. Is that when I challenge young people to tell me what's better they would describe to me a combination?

Of a Teddy Roosevelt and FDR, kind of a new deal in a square deal. Something that provided some basic infrastructure, social infrastructure one, but also something that was big enough to like to to to break up monopolies and those sorts of things. If the regular person can have an opportunity. So I think it's a more modern version of capitalism is what younger people are asking for, but I always love spending time with Kristen. Because I learned so many things. So when I think about the chaos versus stability, it's really kind of how many different axes are there, right? Are we talking economics? 'Cause that tends to favor Trump. Are we talking kind of political and democratic? That would tend to favor Biden, I would argue, right? So it's just not chaos versus stability is really kind of what are the axes on that that we're also looking at, the second axes.

So fascinating. - Kristin, what do you think? 'Cause it's interesting, the Republican Party's in a spot right now where policy-wise, it seems still, at least Republicans in Congress, are still wedded to a tax cut deregulation agenda. And then there's the Trump style of politics, which seems to be like, like, you know, economic populism as a style, more than actual policies. But like, how do you see that? I think that a big part of the reason why you have seen more young people at least express an openness to someone like Donald Trump compared to say Mitt Romney 12 years ago is in part that economic populist thread because I think for a lot. Young people, their core concern with the financial, with our economic system is a sense of fairness. Which is not to say that they think that fairness means everybody gives 100% to the state.

State allocates it accordingly, like actual centrally planned economy is not necessarily what they're thinking. So I agree with John on that. A lot of young people who say they want to tear down the capitalist system, when you ask them to describe their ideal system, it is not the Soviet Union, it is like Scandinavia. At the same time, I think that for Republicans, you know, there was a moment when kind of and those sorts of things. I thought there was a way for that to be a message to young people, in part because you heard some of those respondents in the focus groups talking about their Side jobs, or they're the ones that have kind of struck out on their own. I had thought for a while that that entrepreneurship message would have resonance, but I have since come to think it has some limitations. In part for the same thing that I said about the college degrees and the housing, like to what

is entrepreneurship actually a dream of a lot of young people versus a dream Of a small number of very vocal young people who maybe take up disproportionate space in our minds. And so for Republicans right now, I think the idea that the government is bad at allocating resources, the idea that the government is bad at making decisions about things is still resonant. I think you're seeing some interesting pushback among certain segments of young people on topics like crypto, for instance, where they tend to like it more and they feel like government's going to screw it up if the government gets more involved. That's just one little piece of where I do still think there is a I don't want the government controlling everything strain among this generation, but that's not the same as, gee, I want to lower corporate tax rates so that we can be competitive with the rest of the world. That's not, those are not the same message. - So we mentioned this briefly, but one economic issue that keeps coming up is student debt, but also just the financial value

More broadly. And here's what some of these voters said about that. College was my biggest regret, honestly. I'm in debt for it and I don't even work in what I went to college. You graduated with a college degree. You can't afford a house, a car, two kids, you know? But now people with like a bachelor, you know, they-- We can no longer do that. Or then we have to reach the next step, like master degree, and then now everyone get a master degree. So the next one would be like, so I feel like just not compensate.

Knows about that very few so my most of those focus groups by the way are younger people and we're really wanting to see whether they would vote or not okay so that was like that that was essentially the criteria for the for the demographics that we selected for it's not Who have had some student debt relief, they represent some of... The more emotional experiences I've ever had conducting research like this. You know, in several decades, right? When you can hear, you know, from, you know, a 45 or 50 year old African American woman who for the first time in her family's history.

Between saving for a child's education versus the rent, et cetera. the rent, etc. The fact is we have $150 billion plus relief that's almost 20% I think of the Pentagon budget and very Very few young people appreciate that. Very few young people appreciate the fact that Joe Biden promised it in 2020, and despite the fact -- Supreme Court did, it has been delivered to soon to be, I think, 10 million young people.

I'm Jon Favreau and we're back with another season of The Wilderness. This is going to be a close race. I think this thing is going to be decided by a few thousand votes in a couple swing states. But we're not here to make you panic. We're here to keep you busy. To give you the same kind of info and insights that campaigns have about this election so that you can get out there and convince people to be part of the anti-Trump coalition that beat him last time. You think could be pivotal. -This election isn't about rewarding or punishing Joe Biden or Donald Trump. It's not about them. It's about us. It's about what will happen to the people we care about, and what will happen to the people who need our help. The people of the United States deciding that this is this country's not going down on their watch. We're fighting with everything we got and I think that we're gonna win.

So join us on The Wilderness. New episodes of The Wilderness release every other Sunday in the Pods of America and on the And wilderness feed. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jon Favreau and we're back with another season of The Wilderness. This is gonna be a close race. I think this thing is gonna be decided by a few thousand votes in a couple swing states. But we're not here to make you panic. We're here to keep you busy. To give you the same kind of info and insights that campaigns have about this election so that you can get out there and convince people to be part of the anti-Trump coalition that beat him last time. Pulsification and close elections. It doesn't mean that, you know, we're stuck and nothing matters. It means everything. Everything could be pivotal. This election isn't about rewarding or punishing Joe Biden or Donald Trump. It's not about them. It's about us.

It's about what will happen to the people we care about, and what will happen to the people who need our help. The people of the United States deciding that this is this country's not going down on their watch. We're fighting with everything we got and I think that we're gonna win. So join us on The Wilderness. New episodes of The Wilderness release every other Sunday in the Pods of America and on the and wilderness feed. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Well, Kristin, you mentioned this, but one thing I kept hearing in these focus groups is these young people questioning the... Value of a college education. And so, yes, they're upset and burdened by student debt, but they're also just like, why did I do this? Like, I did not get a job that can keep me financially stable, even though I paid all this money for college.

Somewhat seismic to me that like questioning the very value of a college education and that it can get you ahead in life is sort of characteristic of people's opinions these days, and I feel like it hasn't been like that in the past. Well, and I think it is rooted in... The idea that, what is the purpose of getting a four year degree, right? And maybe, and how has that question changed over the last 20, 30, 40 years? Why did our parents or grandparents generation think going and getting a bachelor's degree was important? That I think especially after the Great Recession, there was this idea that the job market is terrible for young people. In order to get ahead, you have got to be extra credentialed.

In order to set yourself apart. And so you saw this real emphasis, and I think not misguided, to say, Hey, we should make sure that every student is on track to where if they want to choose to get a college degree, they've been prepared by the K-12 system to do so. But the problem is, one, you have a K-12 system that hasn't really prepared a lot of them to do so. So they get to college, and completing in four years is going to be a challenge because they've been so let down by the system that got them there. Then they get to college, and there's -- is the incentive of the college? Is the incentive of the college to get them out in four years and send them on their merry way? And I think we've just had

This misalignment of incentives that has led to a generation saying, Hey, I came and I got this degree thinking it was going to do X, Y, and Z, and it's not clear to me that it's yielding that. So what was this all for? And, you know, if you talk to folks that work at colleges and universities, they'll tell you, Well, the value of the degree is not just the dollars and cents that you are getting in your paycheck. It's that you find yourself, it's that you grow intellectually, it is in all of those things. And that may all be true but gosh, it costs an awful lot of money to become an adult and find yourself and plenty of people become an adult and find... Themselves and don't wind up in severe debt doing so. And so I think this is a real crisis moment for the higher education world where because the price of their product has gone up so much, but the return.

On that investment feel so opaque to people, I think this is a crisis moment for the higher education world. - Yeah, no, it certainly seems like that, and the degree doesn't matter as much if you then can't afford rent or mortgage after you leave college and get a job, right? So even though economic concerns top the list for young people, this is a group of voters who feel very strongly about what they see as an. On their rights and freedoms. Here's some young people from Atlanta talking about that. What kinds of rights do you think are at risk right now in this country? Freedom of speech. Freedom of speech. Yeah. Do you guys agree with that? I agree with that. We vehemently agree with that. Autonomy. Okay. - Okay. I never talked about it earlier. I'm not just like, Right. But like you said earlier, you're your generation. Like I ease your access to college. Yeah.

To an education for your work form right right is that right that you feel like it is I'm like under attack sure yeah you definitely say productive rights because a girl can't get an abortion now in some states in Georgia. Right, that's under attack in a lot of states. Yeah, I think that's crazy and I'm a Republican and I think that is crazy. I have endometriosis and a lot of health issues concerning my reproductive system and some of the medications that I have to be on and different things. That and the possibility of having a risky pregnancy and not being able to get the health care I needed is a big right that I feel like I've lost. Yeah, I would say speech really comes to mind freedom of speech. I am Muslim so it's you know seeing Kind of all these things on the Israel Palestine or I mean it's home in some level

Also, I mean, just kind of seeing how, you know, the police had arrested so many people, you know, just for protesting, seeing how corporations and people just take action. So John, polls show that young voters are overwhelmingly pro-choice and list abortion as one of their top issues. The open question is to what extent the issue will determine their vote and whether they believe Biden will be able to protect abortion access or even that Trump will further restrict abortion access. What are you hearing? So I think a couple of things on this. One of which is I think there's a large number of voters, younger voters, who don't necessarily understand or can't really see the difference in their lives based upon who the president is. Years even on these issues, number one, right? So that's a very, very kind of important thing to kind of I think appreciate that often the folks like ourselves who spend a lot of time thinking,

But don't always hear. The issue of rights, I wasn't looking for rights, right? I'm asking people, what keeps people up at night, right? What are they concerned about? And I think, and this is my. This is how the Biden campaign, you know, kind of rolled out its announcement is around there's a series of rights. And I think the definition of what is a basic right to Gen Z. Is different than the way in which my generation, Gen X, thought of it, right? The right to breathe clean air and drink clean water. The right to a K through 12 education without being concerned about a shooter coming in. That's a right. The right to access healthcare. So I think this generation obviously... Rights, LGBTQ rights, but also the right to feel comfortable sharing your views, you know, in a public or a private spot. I think this idea of rights is something that is resonant, that can connect a lot of the four or five issues that we see in the top of these polls.

Quite a bit. And the degree to which I think the Biden campaign can do that, I think that will be helpful for his success. Us to kind of motivate some people to talk about the stability versus the chaos that Kristen talked about earlier. Kristen, Republicans are clearly worried about the political consequences of Dobbs. I know Kellyanne Conway and some others have advised Trump to stick to a message where Talks about letting the states decide, and then also attacking Democrats for not favoring any restrictions. Do you think that can work with young voters? And how much do you see this as a motivating issue for young voters? What fascinates me about the polling around this is the way that it differs so greatly from the way it looked 10 years ago, especially for young people. When I was writing my book on millennials and their political views, I actually dedicated a couple of pages to the fact that

But when I was looking at the way millennials differed from Gen Xers and Boomers on issues, on things like LGBT rights, there were huge generational divides. But actually on the issue of abortion, as recently as a decade ago, there really wasn't a huge difference. This idea that there were big generation or even gender divides was a little bit overblown. It is not overblown today. There are huge differences on these issues and for young women in particular, it is a much bigger deal. And part of that is because of the connection. And I think some pro-life folks would have said, oh, this is unfair, but now we've Seen in enough states, courts or legislatures taking action that have led to the entanglement of an issue like abortion with things like fertility care, with things like birth control. This was a real panic in the wake of the Supreme Court's hobby law.

Decision oh my goodness is this going to become a political hot button and it kind of subsided like it flared up and then it sort of went out of the discourse it is back in the discourse in a big way and so I think it's in a way that it was not a Political threat to Republicans 10 years ago, it is a political threat now. And that's because even if it's not someone's top issue, even if when you ask them that question and you say you got to pick one, what's your top issue? They say, I can't afford my groceries. That comes to the top of the list economy, cost of living. But that doesn't mean that abortion's not there as something at a sort of gut level of, I just can't bring myself to vote for someone who's on the other side of that issue. And I also think that the pro-life community was caught very flat-footed by the Dobbs decision. I would hear from pro-life folks over the years.

They attributed that lack of a generation divide on the issue to the fact that you have sonogram technology these days that allows you to see at a very early stage of pregnancy, look, there's that little flicker. And they sort of thought that that in and of itself would kind of win the public opinion battle for them. And as we see in the wake of the Dobbs decision, that has not. Been the case. The other issue though that I wanted to touch on was when you played that clip, it was fascinating to hear from young man who said, I'm Muslim and I am concerned about freedom of speech on campus. I was literally just about to ask you that because it came from both sides of the political spectrum, the concern about the attack on free speech or what they perceived as an attack on free speech. So that has been a very quick kind of shift because I have followed the polling around young people's perceptions of freedom of speech. Free speech on campus and really up until the last year, it has been primarily a kind of conservative concern and has gotten kind of dismissed as, well, this is just conservatives being mad that they're not allowed to be out.

On campus and I don't really care about their freedom of speech and now suddenly that it is affecting different groups of students not just you know the campus Turning Point USA chapter suddenly you are seeing more and more young People beginning to go, wait a minute, I don't know if I like this idea that because I hold I'm going to be quote unquote canceled, or I know that term has been abused, but it's fascinating to me the way that this is now a broader concern beyond just the right. John, do you hear that come up a lot? Because I've sort of wondered this too. It becomes-- and it's not just like a conservative activists and liberal activists or people on the right and people on the left. You also hear it from people who are apolitical or who aren't super politically engaged.

It's just this feeling that everyone's getting in trouble all the time and they're like afraid to even talk about it and bring it up. And it feels like it reached its peak in like 2017, 2018, 2019. And now it's sort of maybe subsided a little bit. But I don't know. What do you what are you hearing? - Some of that, I hear some of that. I still think it's more prominent in the conservative and the Republican groups, but I do think that that is something that it also, that is... Stifling people from sharing their views and therefore makes them less confident. In their choices and thinking through who they are from a political lens and their values, et cetera, because they're afraid to even ask questions. I think that is a very significant factor in terms of-- of in terms of driving or not driving support for people voting or not because they

We don't have an environment where people are comfortable asking questions or sharing their opinions because they'll be judged Young potential progressives feel that young potential conservatives feel that as well. And I think that's to like just a lot of work we need to do around civics and civic education with 'cause it's just not healthy for anybody. - So there's that voter mention, the campus protests, and of course the issue related to young voters that's probably gotten the most attention. In the media certainly on social media is the war in Gaza It was brought up in John's focus groups But I thought it was notable that we also heard a different angle on why young people are upset about US involvement in foreign conflicts I want to stop the genocide. I want to stop funding the wars. Thank you. In good spirit, being a Muslim woman, continue to vote Democrat each year. - Like I have, on local and on a presidential level, When I--

I know that my taxpayers' money is funding bullets for children. Can I ask a follow-up? Do you feel like by not going for buying by going for Trump or someone else that will >> The lesser evil? >> That will provide more peace for some assistance. And some dignity and respect for the Palestinian cause. I think it's my responsibility to vote for that. Voting for Biden, I mean, we're taking names. -It provided last year because it was a lesser evil. But now I can't in good faith. -Oh, for Biden, for the same reason that he is evil. -Thank you. -Fixing the potholes, mental health programs in the United States. Priority for us it affects our every day. If the price of groceries going up, that affects our every day. What's happening in XYZ country far away, which--

Again, we're in debt, so why are we bailing out other people's debt? So two different issues there, but I want to start with Gaza. So polls consistently show that most young people have become critical of Israel's response to October 7th and tend to sympathize with the plight of the Palestinians. On the other hand, Gaza tends to rank much lower on the list of issues that will determine their vote. John, does that track with what you're– You're seeing? Yeah, I've asked the question dozens of ways and dozens of focus groups and surveys, and that's essentially it. The only thing I'd add slightly to that, John, is that-- uh... in the harbor pulling younger people sympathize roughly equally with both the palestinian

The Israeli civilians, right? It's the governments where we see the divide. But generally, generally, yes. Yeah. Kristin, I'm interested in your thoughts on the opposition to US financial support for foreign conflicts like Gaza. We heard someone mention Ukraine in an earlier clip. And of course, this is a position the Republican Party has moved towards under Trump that's quite different than the GOP. You grew up with. Do you think that's where young people of both parties are headed or is there an isolationist streak now among young people? Absolutely. So there is no bigger issue set that divides younger Republicans from older Republicans than foreign policy, which surprises me sometimes, but the data is very stark. And it's not just Ukraine, it is really that for an older...

Of Republicans. And I think they share this with older Democrats as well to an extent. There is a view that America can be a force for good in this world. There is a maybe it's like a cold echoes of the Cold War mentality, but that like when the when America is the world's leader, the world is better off. And that is not something that young people believe no matter where they're at on the political spectrum, right or left. So for those on the left, it is a belief that America is fundamentally flawed in x, y, and z way and how dare we tell the rest of the world how to behave when we have all these problems at home. For young folks on the right, it's not necessarily a view that America is bad, but rather a view that it's not our problem. Let's focus in at home exactly kind of what you heard. And so oddly enough, I mean, eight years ago when Republicans nominated Donald Trump, I thought you could not have created someone in a lab who was.

To be more off-putting to young voters to turn them away from the GOP than Donald Trump. But I would say that foreign policy is actually the one issue area that is a big exception to that. That this is where, even though I think a lot of the sort of Republican foreign policy establishment believes and and I would say I think rightly that the world actually is safer and more stable when America is Strong and is in a leadership role and is working with our allies rather than just looking inward. But for most young people, they really don't think they don't think that America is that great to begin with. And therefore, they don't think that American projection of power around the world does anything but harm. And again, that and the Democratic establishment agrees with a lot of the Republican establishment And younger Democratic voters seem to agree a little bit more with younger Republican voters that this is not our job.

Business and we should and America's or at least American presence around the world is a negative, right? It's bad. John, is that what you're hearing with some young Democratic voters too? Yeah, very much so. And you know, the context of that. That was a middle of a town hall meeting with 25 people with a young Muzz woman from Dearborn who shared that perspective. I think she's reflected... Of a generation on the issue of it's, you know, we need to stop funding, you know, other people's wars, etc. on one hand. I'm not sure that she's as reflective of her generation. I know she's not in terms of the connection directly to Biden and her being less likely Because we have not seen that correlation. I think that's I think that's worth noting The other thing is every time I've been in Detroit having these very challenging conversations The entry point into Israel and Gaza is through foreign aid, right?

That is viewed as a value and not necessarily a place where people may or may not claim someone with antisemitic because they carry those values, you know, to other places around the world. Okay, let's end by talking about views of the candidates themselves. Spoiler alert, not a lot of Biden or Trump fans among these folks, which does reflect most of the polling. But I thought it'd be interesting to hear how they're thinking through the choice. Starting with an Atlanta voter who talked about why he used to like Trump. I was like 18. Years old you know going starting off college and you know like he's Funny and he tells it like it is and you know he doesn't give a fuck you know it's like he offends somebody and you know that was very appealing to me you know 18 year old sensibility. I would say Trump and I think it's very easy for me being 22 for it to be skewed because I was a lot younger when Trump was in

In office so I didn't really pay attention to it. I wasn't paying bills the same way I am now. And I also think that Biden's a little bit like there's lasting effects from COVID that really. Really blame on him that we're starting to feel right now, like inflation being one of them. I don't think, he's definitely not helping yet, but there's bound to be some level of inflation. Well I think... When I think about it, there was no foreign tension. -But as far as they were saying about Biden being bad, I kind of agree with that, but at the same time, I feel like if that's if your choice is Biden or a racist, you kind of go with Biden. -I think we all need to show up to vote and everything because there are so many, like, boomer generation politicians and ways that are literally insane. Like, they should not be there anymore. They don't know what's going on. They're not in tune with their people.

So we need to come together to make sure that there's people there that know what's going on and can speak up for what we need. So we hear a lot of younger voters talking about the lesser of two evils. May sound frustrating or depressing to some people, but I don't know, John, could ultimately be an effective argument if you're trying to get someone to vote for Biden? Well, it's the old comparative. It needs to be a comparative, right? You know, Trump tried this, Biden didn't. That. Into the next. Those first clips of those young men in Atlanta, right? And the idea of that first time voter, their first reaction.

Trump when they were in their early high school years, they view him as an antihero. And that is worth noting, right? Their values aren't necessarily aligned, but that first experience is a different experience. Than the young voter four years ago, you know, who kind of came of age and saw, you know, the policy and the comments where there's... Charlottesville and other things so that's a really important perspective in terms of how younger people's Experience and this cycle is different than younger people's experience in the last cycle and it goes just as well for Bob by the way. Kristen, there's been some data that suggests a growing gender divide among young voters with Trump appealing to more young men. Do you think his support among this cohort has grown over the last eight years? What do you think is going on there? So I think to the extent that you had somebody who at 18 took the view of Trump like the young man in this focus group, right?

They liked something about his sort of lawless, I don't care kind of vibe and that was appealing to them. I've been a strong believer that part of the reason why Donald Trump lost in 2020. And there are a million things you could put on this list. But one of them is, in 2016, he retained this aura. Of celebrity around him. He's the guy who's good at economics. He's Donald Trump, who you see on TV. And the reality of President Donald Trump was not quite that. But now we've got another four years that we've been on where Donald Trump sort of backed

Away from being in the news that much. He's literally been on trial for felony charges and most Americans were probably not that tuned in until maybe they heard about the verdict from someone who heard from someone. And so I still think that at this moment, and this will change by the time we get to November, that Trump has kind of reverted back in a lot of voters' minds to celebrity Trump. And you see him cultivating this, right? He shows up at UFC events. That's what he's leaning back into. This kind of, I am masculine. I don't care. I'm vibrant.

He's trying to set up a contrast with Biden in doing so. But can that sustain itself over however many months we have until November with lots of advertising reminding voters of what Trump was like as president? That's where I'm not so sure. Well, John, that brings up like the challenge of reaching younger voters in an information environment where they're either not paying attention to political news or getting their From social platforms like TikTok, or as Kristen was saying earlier, getting some political information from. Who aren't necessarily like explicitly political. How has that changed the strategies necessary to communicate with and persuade these voters? Because otherwise it becomes sort of a vibes thing that Kristin was just mentioning.

Where it's like, oh, Trump seems cool and maybe it wasn't that bad and he's showing up at UFC and Biden seems really old and I'm seeing all these videos of him looking frozen and whatever else. What are those strategies like? - Well, you need to play in that space. You need to play in the vibes playground, right? That's where young people get in their-- Information. It's quite clear. And that starts, I think, with really having sophisticated strategies around two channels, around YouTube and TikTok, from those two platforms. And it's just not in 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 90 seconds. It could be in 10, 15-minute chunks of video on YouTube, which young people actually like. Enjoy that seemingly long form of content if they're able to learn something because that is where

Information is, that's like the central place in terms of where information is moving. From there it goes to Reddit and Discord and Twitch and the other gaming platforms. But these efforts, and it can't be directly from the... Campaign. They are the least trusted distributors of this sort of content. So, what has to happen, I believe, is... That like Trump has been doing some ways, tapping kind of influencers and newer ideas outside of the traditional political ecosystem. See them on YouTube, see them on the streaming platforms. Begin to kind of reestablish and make some sort of connections on the issues that matter so that Of the younger person who is at the 4th of July picnic or moving into their dorm when they have-- that moment when another member of the group is questioning what it all means or questioning government or questioning the difference, that information.

Is available to be communicated from a peer to peer, right? There needs to be some organization top-down, seeding information through TikTok and YouTube, in my belief, and then which gives permission to other people to say, you know what, may not be popular. I'm standing up for Biden because of this. - Kristin, last question. For a younger voter who is open to the possibility of a second Trump term isn't sold yet. What do you think the most effective-- argument is that might make them pause and and and decide that they maybe they don't want to pull that lever for Trump. So I think the notion that Donald Trump wants to be

He says, I want to be transformative. I want to be this wrecking ball. But the idea that he does not want to be transformative in a forward-looking direction, but back. I mean, his message has always been, Make America great again. It harkens back to a past. And I know that this is the summer of nostalgia and that we're in this moment where Jen's ears are like pulling up videos from when like people our age were graduating from high school and they're like, Oh, I miss that kind of an experience. Why don't we have this? Like I understand that there is some nostalgia for 1999 that is completely justified. That's not what Donald Trump is talking about. He's not talking about going back to 1999. And I think it is the fact that Trump has set himself.

Up to say, Yes, I want to blow things up, but the way I want to move them is to hit the rewind button and go back and reclaim something that we feel like has been lost. There are a lot of things in America's past that are completely the opposite of what Gen Z wants for their future. And so I think if I was advising Democrats on how to best divorce Trump from the voters who are curious about him, it would be that. It wouldn't be trying to say Trump is just as old as Biden or any of that stuff. It would be that Trump does want to blow things up, that he does want to be vigorous and shake up the system. And he's in a second term, he's not going to be mild mannered about it. He has said as much himself, but the direction that he wants to take things is the opposite direction of what you're looking for. >> And John, say you have a young Biden 2020 voter in your life who's not sure they want to vote for him again. You have a few minutes to persuade this person to get out and vote for Biden. What do you say? I'd say why did you

Vote for him in 2020. And they'll say something to the effect of, I want to progress on student debt, on gun violence, on climate. And then I would remind them that-- in many ways significant odds of Republicans fighting against the Supreme Court. He's accomplished those. He's not only promised those things, he listened to young people, but he delivered in ways that no other president in many decades has delivered for them.

And that those things are at risk. They may not be where they need to be at this moment, but they're at risk if he votes in some other way. - John and Kristen, thank you so much for joining the wilderness. This was a fascinating conversation. I really appreciate your time. - Thanks for having us. - Thank you. I found John's focus groups bleaker than most, but also enlightening, especially after my conversation with him and Kristen. These are two people with ties to the Democratic establishment and the pre-Trump Republican establishment. But because they've both spent so much time talking to younger voters, it's given both of them unique insight into where the future of... American politics may be headed. And it's a place that's probably unrecognizable to the establishment of either party. Younger voters simply don't have the same faith in institutions that older voters do. Some of that has to do with the fact that they don't see themselves represented in those institutions.

And how they're getting the news and information that shapes their worldviews. This presents an especially difficult challenge to the one party that's currently fighting to defend our democratic institutions from the threat of authoritarianism. And Kristen both mentioned. Even if Gen Z doesn't have much faith in the older people who are currently in charge, they have a lot of confidence in their own ability to make things happen. Just look at Anderson Clayton. Organizers on the ground. They are knocking doors across every county in North Carolina on every weekend. The traditional ways of voter contact are not always going to be the most effective to reach young voters. And I think that where we have to really chase them all.

And chase young people is showing up where they are. So that means on college campuses, that means at your place of work. Earl County this past weekend and one of the guys is running for County Commissioner out there looked at me and he goes where. Where are young voters at in this county, Anderson? And I said, Do you have a Lowe's, a Walmart, a fast-food restaurant anywhere in this county? Yes, absolutely. Because the majority of those entities are actually the number one employer in those counties, right, sometimes. Hundred people in any rural community that you live in right now. And so looking at that and saying like you know where's the shift change like on On the shift change, like are you out there with a clipboard asking those folks they registered to vote? This is the kind of energy and creativity we need right now.

Now. We can't just sit around and worry and wait for better things to happen. Better polls, better news cycles, better campaigns. We've got to go make it happen ourselves. We've got to go do the work like everything depends on us. Because it I think about it being in the South right now and I'm like voting this year is about survival to us in so many ways. 55% of Black Americans live in the South right now. I'm coming from a region that has felt overlooked and honestly ignored by a lot of the political apparatus in the entire country for a long period of time, and I need people to wake the fuck up this year that you're not just voting for yourself. You are voting for every other person. And in this country, in this state that is marginalized and that does not have what they need right now. And it's not about Donald Trump. For Joe Biden, it is about the future of the world that you want to live in. If you don't want to vote this year to protect the people around you --

What do you want to vote for, like genuinely? And that's something that I think you've got to sit with it and decide it for yourselves. And there may still be people after that that look at me and say, Anderson, it ain't worth it to me. But that's on us. That is humanity. And I'm like, I know that we're better than that. We're better than that as people. We have to be. We have to be this year. We know things aren't great. We know our options aren't perfect, and neither are we. But we can make things better. We can be better. And right now, we have to be. We'll see you next time on The Wilderness. The Wilderness is a production of Quirken Media. It's written and hosted by me, Jon Favreau.

Our next presenter is Andrea B. Scott. Austin Fisher is our producer. And Farah Safaree is our associate producer. Sound designed by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Music by Marty Fowler. Charlotte Landis and Jordan Kantor sound engineered the show. Thanks to Katie Long, Reed Cherlin, Matt DeGrotte, and Madeline Herringer for production support. To our video team, Rachel Gajewski, Joseph Dutra, Chris Russell, Molly Lobel, and Dan O'Brien. David Tolles, who filmed and edited the show. If the wilderness has inspired you to get involved, head on over to votesaveamerica.com/2024 to sign up and find a volunteer shift near you.