Ben Rhodes joins Jon and Tommy to talk about the aftermath of the North Korea summit, Trump’s family separation policy at the border, and why senior Republicans are calling their own party a cult.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Welcome to pod save America on Jon Favreau on Tommy Detour,
Today we have the author of the new memoir the world, as it is crooked
tribute are best friend of the POD benro
this is here in studio in the flesh. Thank God he is exchange he's co hosting with us today. This is your third because,
today, yeah then went to a cave to write for a year yeah and that they just. Finally, let me out and cleaned
into the wild here. I am
we talk about N Korea, immigration, the Republican Party's nomination of a confederate for Senate, but first, a few housekeeping items were going to be on tour at the end of next week. There are still tickets for Nashville. So go to
com. That's lasted and asked me to I've, never been we'll be in Atlanta in Durham as well, so very exciting. I'm also very exciting news today
you can subscribe to the brand new crooked media, podcast hysteria,
cast from Erin right guys. This is so exciting
We've been we've been waiting for his stereo for a long time. I've actually heard a couple episodes and it is so funny they are so smart,
So Erin has, with her on this podcast a bicoastal squad of
including our friend Alyssa Mastromonaco Monaco,
to me, though. Blair money, grace power, Kieran Deal and making gaily to murders. Row of hilarious, hilarious, women, Martin they're great,
so subscribe today, wherever you get your podcasts
and it'll be out in a few weeks. First episode going be ahead. We're excited already is
um before we get into the news Ben tell us about the book. Tell us about the world as it is. I mean we read it, but Tell
why did the? Why did you write? It was the main message you're trying to get across there? Well, you know I thought about what kind of book I wanted to do, and I realized that I hate
most political memoirs and like White House memoirs, and they usually like a list of like I was in these meetings and here's why I was right in every one of the things that I was in year. Five people who I hate to I'm going
like just set on fire in this book, with a self aggrandizing title the duty to serve
like? I won't name names here, but like some of the members that emerged worthy fights duty, you know I was correct.
You were defense secretary from President had or not, but so that was kind of the genre
but I realize you're what I had that was different from you know. Some people is when I went to work for a bomb and met you guys. I was twenty nine and kind of a normal guy. You know not a Clinton or Bob Gates really interneta, and I realized I could tell a story if I was much more kind of personal about what that
Experience was like, and you spend a little less time in the situation room a more time time like what was it like to be with
I'm in between meetings and what was it like when my personal relationships to go through the wringer that job you know, I could kind of take the reader into the experience of the ten years that I spent with Obama. So that was you know how I try to distinguish it. I also real
Is that you know I wasn't smart, like you guys had to get out at a time that was good for my mental or physical health, but
that gave me is? I was there the first day in the last day, you know literally walked in the first day, the last day of the administration, I flew with the Obamas out to California to drop them off for their beginning of the rest of their lives, and so I had this. You ability to tell the whole story in the follow threat.
All the way through the administration and could really show our boss, Barack Obama,
the way that yeah, I think he doesn't always come across like what's he actually like as a human being. What's a three dimensional portrait of him, what does he sound like when he's talking? You know not again, not just chairing a meeting, but you know when he's making jokes in the car when he's expressing frustration on a foreign trip when he's talking about foreign leaders are Trump after the election, so I wanted to let him just talk and and give his voice a lot in those kind of private moments. Yet to me we are too my two favorite parts of the book, one for the coming of age, tale that you tell about yourself and that's just selfishly, because I was there with you. It was a coming of age tale for all of us, but so that was really cool and the other thing was. I do think the U N
this isn't shouldn't be surprising, but you capture how Barack Obama thinks and sort of what he was thinking during all these moments of the presidency better than anyone else I've seen, I don't think any reporter. Some came close. I don't think any reporter really captured, who are old boss really is over the course of the presidency, and I think this spot
book tells you that in a way, that is very honest, you were saying this Tommy on in your pockets of been the other day that it says it's not like. I hate Yarber fee. You know he doesn't always look perfect because he was not always perfect, yeah right and and
and you know get getting him yeah. I wanted to show how how is he dealing personally with the transformations and the arab spring, for instance, how did he wrestle with that, but also like how did he deal with the toxic nature of our politics? And you know we we were talking about like I. I wanted to tell people like friends and secures how we talk about race. You know right and- and the point I make there is that we don't have to talk about it- a lot because it was kind taken for granted, but it would come out in interesting ways like we'd be prepping for a press conference, a like you're gonna, get asked about how much of the republican opposition you is about race. Is it and he be like yes, of course, next question and like we laugh right, but underneath that was, you know the fact that he felt like he needed to on a certain your face publicly, but I wanted to show '
how that stuff kind of backed up on him privately, but well, you did a fantastic job. Everyone should go by the book and read it. It is. It is very, very excellent and more all right. Let's talk about the news I want to get into North Korea, but first we should of course, wish a happy birthday to our President Donald Trump.
The song is a hundred and thirty eight million views on Youtube. What is happy birthday John, is in the public domain I can play if I want. I had
happy to Donald Trump who, along with his three darling children, is being sued.
By the New York attorney general, for quote extensive and
distant violations of state and federal law that Trump Foundation raise
for charity and then used it to influence Donald Trump
potential campaign. They also used the funds to pay back lawsuits that they settled.
What to do with MAR a Lago. The reason we know all of these things is because the evidence is out.
Do they put their crimes in emails again, they're the worst grifters.
So Don Junior, Ivanka and Eric are all named in the lawsuit 'cause, their board members of the Trump Foundation which is supposed to scrutinize their spending for science at their leader in this case, Papa Bear Trump was misusing
funds. The board has not actually met since one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine. So a bit of a dereliction of duty here. Can I just say that, like I remember, we used to get nervous because all the emails you send in government or like public record and so twenty five years from now, someone could find out that Tommy didn't like some reporter. We weren't like.
Hey when you commit the crime, can you make sure to get a receipt for that crime and send it back so
ultimately like, we can be the target of
two to three years living dad on the crime. I mean Corey Lewandowski. This is one of the emails just saying like. When can we get the disbursement of money hopeful? It would be great if we could get it Saturday when Where- and I owe us not to put too fine a point on it, but
so they're doing great. But let's talk about, let's talk about N Korea, it's a good day to have my two
smartest foreign policy pals here, because we had ourselves quite a summit with our new dictator friend from North Korea on Tuesday
upon returning home, conquering hero, Donald Trump tweeted, there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea. Sleep well tonight, so
This man is out of his God goddamn mind and, of course, North
It has made no moves what so ever to denuclearize just yet, but before we get into all the
details. What did you guys
I think overall, of the summit is the world safer, less safe or exactly as safe as it was on Monday? What do you think, then? I think exactly safe, and I want to make a point to all our progressive friends out there. It is ok to think that it's a very good thing that we're pursuing diplomacy with N Korea. Instead of going to war,
with them, and still think that this was a catastrophe right I mean this was a disaster of a summit. Let's be very clear here, right N Korea wants a bunch of things right. They want international legitimacy. Well, Trump just gave that to them in a way they've never had in their entire history of their country. They were there with the Us President front of all these flags. N Korea wants our military press
in South Korea drawn down. Trump just seem to want to go out and decide to announce that we're not going to military exercises with south, creating more without even necessarily telling the South Koreans beforehand, something that China, North Korea. I have wanted for many years. He just gave
to them in north Green once sanctions relief, and I have to think that, even if we're not giving that to them ourselves, the optics of this summit, if you're trying to you're thinking like I'm, not exactly be cracking down on the enforcement, you know now that you know Trump is buddies with
Young then so N Korea got like a lot of what they wanted for nothing.
Like I want to be very clear about this, like reaffirming. No,
I mean I've written a lot. These statements, if the word reaffirm, is in this
payment. You are doing nothing. You
it's like I'm. I reaffirmed the you know that I will make my bed tomorrow. They reaffirmed a commitment to denuclearization, then it on when, in the past it under under Bush, under Clinton both times they broke that promise. They did not do it, so they reaffirm.
They they were going to do something that they have lied about doing in the past. So
there's, no new anything out of North Korea
Timeline to denuclearize no inspections to verify that
to denuclearize, so basically Trump gave this huge spectacle and really leaves there with nothing, except the fact that
more meetings, North Korea leaves there with a lot of the things that they wanted. Yeah
the IRAN deal was like one hundred and fifty nine pages. I believe the N Korea agreed
that they signed with four hundred words, so they did, they did half an op ed worth of work.
Words like verifiable that they talked about
over and over and over again in the run up to this weren't in the document. Even though we push for it and that's important, because that means we get to inspect all these sites and when pressed about this, I believe yesterday, MIKE Pompeyo, the Secretary of State was, is
So, let's get a little snippy lost. His shift on all these reporters said was insulting and frankly, ludicrous for them to press him on the details. Well, boo, fucking hoo, MIKE like the details matter here,
This isn't Congress, where you introduce a bill and walk away and MIKE Pompeyo we gave a colonoscopy to the IRAN deal details. You know like these guys, literally like the scrutiny that was, I mean. I know you can drive you insane if you
Think I know, and with the scrutiny on the IRAN deal where we ship ninety eight percent of their nuclear material out of the country had inspections on all of
their nuclear facilities had you know, centrifuges taken out and put in storage Liz. The screening flooded that, as against your MIKE Pompeii, feels like his he he he shouldn't be at even asked about like how they're going to make this work.
I mean the double standards here I was driving. I was saying I was gonna, get there later to talk to you too, about the hypocrisy around us in there. I'm sorry when I'm doing it, they're they're. Ultimately, only you know it's it's crazy, but what I was gonna ask like, because we they there has been
thing on the left, where some people are like. Okay, why are we upset that you know they're talking in there doing diplomacy as opposed
You know threatening nuclear war with each other on Twitter with like yeah. Obviously, that's way better, but I'm wondering from you
and then obviously you helpfully negotiations.
Around for the IRAN deal and then in the opening Cuba, if, if it was not the Trump Administration
What would yes normal direct diplomacy with the North Koreans, which we would all support? What would that look like what kind of preparations would you do before yeah? I mean you know the two examples I'd I'd can draw from Cuba. You know I had to do the pre diplomacy and I had twenty meetings
Alejandro Castro, Raul Castro son usually lasted eight hours, sometimes two days till you call him
mark, I who loves his country. Yes, that is just too much to get to zero hug him. When I I I I well, you may be the end of us with his generals, but but well, you know before we put, it was two years before we put
Barack Obama in the room with Raul Castro, and by that point we tied everything up. We knew it
Otherwise we knew we were you're, gonna, stop us embassies, we knew we were gonna, they were gonna release, they did release a and a lot of political prisoners and and take other steps, and we were gonna take steps as well. So we did the prep work. You know it now, Trump said
he doesn't just need to prepare my man that was apparent though, and with the IRAN deal like we had endless discussions about what would constitute a good deal. We had
nuclear physicist, a Nobel Prize winning nuclear physicist, Ernie Monis
in those prep meetings and in the negotiations. So
yeah. But how is he a rebounding in the NBA?
because they had Dennis Rodman yeah, I mean so so we knew exactly what we wanted to get out of these negotiations. We knew what was success and what wasn't and if you could just see it's like anybody who has gone into a school without doing the homework for the test and the oral presentation you can just tell you could tell
These guys had not done the work yeah. You could tell that they didn't know what they wanted to achieve. They couldn't you know all they can articulate before was either a really max most of demand. The north. We give up all their nuclear weapons and then coming out of this that that they can't even spend it because they they don't know what they were shooting at. I twenty two point lead reiterate something bad
said which is these details matter, because the n is saying the denuclearisation process will be simultaneous, pompeyo and trump are saying: no, they have to go first. That discrepancy is going to come too.
Right. Now. The only thing we all agree happened is a concession from United States that were going to Aws these joint military exercises in South Korea, and that's something that you could you could get there and you could ultimately concede and
Do that, but Trump seems to just coughed up in the meeting. We know that because he didn't tell the rocks
he didn't tell the the South Koreans. Are US forces in Korea before he did it and
all the everyone who's out there saying. Well, you know he brought us back from the brink.
War, so we should all be included on the brother printer. He was fucking tweeting about his big nuclear button. So, like another thing point you made men that I think
we need to remember- is that by overselling the summit as success in saying the Prob
Ross solved. He could make it harder to keep sanctions in place and the maximum pressure effort that he's been working on could get rolled back so like he could have her. Last year we talked about what North Korea get out of the summit, which is a lot we talked about what the United
it's going to the summit, which was almost nothing there's other countries involved here. What did China get out of this? What did Russia get out of this? An? What did S Korea get
this if anything, except a surprise when they learned that they have. We were testing Joe yeah. What's very exercises anymore yeah I mean fighting right on that is trying to got a huge win, because what China wants is less US military presence in their region. So Trump actually made a big concession to China when he said he wasn't doing his military exercises, so the Chinese are sitting feeling pretty good about.
Things the Russians had a great week it they live that I get the winner of the week Vladimir Putin, because I actually thought that the more important summit was the g, seven yeah, because literally the unraveling of the post World war, two order happened before eyes. You know Trump, essentially picking fights with all of our closest allies. They're all- and you know, having sat with these people looking at an angle, Americal Justin, Trudeau, there clearly pastor breaking point,
trump. You know and he's inviting Russia back into the the g7. So we rush accomplishing their objective. You people always ask me: what do you think Russia wanted to?
They want sanctions, relief from the meddled in our election know they.
That you seven summit. They wanted to see the split in the Trans Atlantic Alliance, a split in the alliance, the world's democracies, and they they got that in spades and so Trump no before he goes and cozies up to north korean dictators and generals, he literally blows up the the the closest alliances that we have in the world. That is much to Russia's benefit. I think the South Koreans, I I I fell.
Very bad for them in this whole process, because they're, the reason this diplomacy is happening because they saw this fire
locked and loaded and they knew they were the ones that were being the crosshairs of that. So they're like we got something here. You know so they took this initiative. They went to the North Koreans and I think they brought that back to Trump
Trump grabs it from them says: okay I'll go meet with that guy. You know, and I actually don't think they necessarily meant for this to go so fast. I think they just wanted to get some diplomacy underway way. To avoid a war.
They're sitting there in their stock, because, on the one hand, they definitely don't want there to be a war because they would suffer all the consequences, but the other, and they don't want trump to totally sell them out all right in the process, and so I think right now, there's probably a lot of mixed feelings in South Korea better this band. You know the escalation that we're on, but this doesn't look like it's going quite the way one doesn't selling out the south korean
seem like something that Trump would totally do at the end of this entire process. Like I keep what I I wonder this way back when that like in Trump's mind the way that mind works, you could see him thinking like okay. Why do we have all these troops in South Korea anyway? Why do we protect South Korea? What what is that for us? We have there, so you could see the end of this process. Him saying yeah! Well, not only freeze joint!
sizes will remove troops from South Korea yeah and then, as long as he's not point those nuclear weapons of the United States, we don't care what happens on the green.
Hello, and he said that over the years he's made comments on a wide array of troops in Korea. You know we have troops in created and assure the survival of South Korea right, and you know he says so me and saying things that you know you. You lose track of them, but he said something you know when he was the kind of boasting about pausing the military exercises he talked about how expensive they were right that the that may be just a normal thing for Trump to say, but I think people to realize how do these things sound abroad, if your Japan or South Korea and literally your existence, is dependent upon the United States providing these troops which, by the way we do
if it from two, because those are growing economies and those are some of our best trading partners and suddenly you guys saying, like I'm tired of footing the bill for these troops. The South Windsor hearing that as well at the end of this process, yeah he very well may sell us out, take out these troops and kind of leave us here, surrounded by China and N Korea, which is
exactly where we want to be I'd like to add another entity to the list of losers this week, which is
Rest peoples all around the world. Well, because Trump has signaled that he does not give a shit about human rights and he's done this before
Whataboutism when pressed on Putin, killing adversaries or journalists referees like well. You know we do it to work killers to
He basically said you know Kim Jong. Un has
rough guides he's been a rough person he's smart. He loves his people, he loves his country. I mean that's an insane thing to say about a guy with one hundred thousand political prisoners breaking rocks in a fucking concentration camp. I mean Nick Kristof pointed this out in his pcs today, where he
you know Trump was outfoxed. There's peace a couple days before that words, like Democrats, don't be childish like give him a chance. A twenty fourteen UN report
it's north korean human rights violations
do not have any parallel in the contemporary world right, and that includes mass executions, torture for starvation, abductions and prison camps. John you as a source on this just a trump twenty eighteen states.
The union, where he said no ram, is a precedent citizens more totally or brutally than the cruel dictatorship in North Korea and- and you know, I should have like a limit the number of times. I can talk about a pocket seat, but
I. When we dealt with cuban IRAN, we would always get this argument, but we would always raise human rights in the meeting publicly. We would always speak about
when President Obama went to Cuba, he talked about the need for elections and by the way, the human rights picture in North Korea's. You guys suggest is so much worse and not only did he say the things atomic or did he said that the n korean people love Kim Jung on right right and what you have to realize. He just legitimized his rule. He just said: well, they love him. That's that's Kim Jung, Hoon's argument for why he does the things that he does in North Korea and you also have to know N Korea has state media right they're going to be playing that in a clip.
Over and over and over again right that US presence sang the north green people, love Commune, that's gonna be playing, they can fax over then Que they have more. The Mccallum live from the north Korean yeah. I mean it's like they have trust me. It's nothing to fox and friends over there and and Trump is gave them, but Russell Summit a lot of content. This is an important point because you know it's like well. All kinds of countries have human rights abuses in
We've dealt with them throughout history, yeah. We're not saying that the United States cannot deal with countries that have human rights. Abuse is if there are big thing
let's take like denuclearizing right well. Obviously, IRAN has plenty of human rights abuses, so does Cuba we still dealt with them because they were bigger things at stake in IRAN. It was making sure they don't have a nuclear weapon.
Right. There is a way that Trump could have gone to North Korea met with Kim Jong Moon and not praised him like. He did not said that people love him like he did.
And then he comes back and Brett Baer. Ask him about this and he reminds Trump that Kim executes people and he's done some really bad things and Trump replies yeah, but so have other people done some really bad things. He's uh
guy. I saw that- and I was like I just unbelievable
so I thought I would see. I never thought it would crash. Justin Trudeau, I mean part of what's a starkey around the world is like he can't find enough good things to say about Kim Jung and, while he's like trashing the leaders of
Chrissy's. I mean how is that going down around the world? You know, I think it it
changing the way the world looks at us. It instantly takes us out of the position of leader of the free world, also just in that Brett Baer Interview, he says he wants Russia back in the G8 so that he can sit down over dinner and turn to Putin and say: hey. Can you do me?
Where can you get out of Syria? Can you get out of Ukraine? That's why they were fucking expelled. You moron, like he doesn't understand anything. You have no idea what he's talking about and the human rights stuff it doesn't. Just I mean it worries me, like you said then, about how people around the world see us, but
to be alarmist here, but it also worries me about how Trump will be in this country
next year down the road a couple years down the road like he clearly sees doing things like
Kim Jong Moon does to his people as just necessary. Breaking a few eggs
is you're trying to run a country and that's fucking scary, and in like.
Not. That far away were about to talk about immigration and putting children in detention centers at the border, but it's pretty it's scary,
So now, let's, let's talk a little bit about their reaction from Republicans and other trump sick offense to the summit, even for Republicans their pockets. He was in raging and I wasn't as close to the. How does the two of you
Let's just talk about what Tom Cotton said. Just to take one example of one of the biggest hypocrites in the Republican Party,
Tom Cotton said to Hugh Hewitt in full
favorites to exit, not mine, to buddy
like IRAN in Cuba and other two bit. James, don't have nuclear weapons, yet he told Hewitt they can't threaten the you
states and that way, once North Korea had nuclear weapons once they have missiles that can deliver them to use. I would like it to pass president sitting down with soviet dictators, so Tom Cotton,
point is, Obama should not have dealt with IRAN because IRAN did not happen until I got a nuclear weapon once they get new been crazy. Like you know the top Joe, don't you want to stop the country from getting a nuclear weapon? You know like so, and so is Tom because
for IRAN having nuclear weapon. Let's take the cotton doctrine
okay to its logical extension, which is why don't we just
nuclear weapons to IRAN and Cuba, and then we can actually talk to them. You know it's so funny because he made up this doctrine like basically by accident, because
all he could think of 'cause he's gotta justifying knew he was full of shit. He knew his whole shift. This is a man who wrote a letter to the
Preme leader of IRAN. While we were trying to
ago. She ate the saying that you know essentially don't talk to the President knighted states. Congress speaks for us
to blow up a negotiation. These people
these fucking guys these people, who now say that we can't we shouldn't criticize Trump, and we should be rooting
Success, like literally tried actively
derailed IRAN negotiations to prevent
I'm reaching a deal to stop IRAN from getting a nuclear weapon and now
like well in the n Koreans, they've got their nukes, so it's great that he's sitting down talking. It's like they're praising Trump from
negotiating, absolutely nothing away from the Dick
of a nuclear rogue state, and yet they were attacking Obama for
for negotiation with an aspiring nuclear state that removes what ninety something percent of its nuclear production capacity and let's just pretend for five seconds of these arguments, they're making in good faith. So let's take the substance up. They didn't like the IRAN deal because it included sunset provisions on some of the things we did to live. It runs nuclear program over the terms of like ten years or fifteen years. There is literally
Nothing has been done in North Korea. Nothing has been accomplished, there's no timetable for getting it done and they seem just fine with them declaring victory the other part of this
They didn't like the fact that the IRAN deal didn't deal with Iranians
for terrorism, supporting Yemen or all the other things that are doing this was these.
These weren't even raised with Trump and not even discuss not even did not, even though it's not that they just they weren't raised. He praised him for the human right
use any down mention them? He went the other way their number one argument against IRAN deal. Is it didn't? Stop the other, behavior ballistic missiles, human rights and destabilizing actions in the region, North Korea's during the worst human rights abuser in the world really aggressive, blister
cels program, they they just assassinated a guy in Malaysia a few months ago, talking, right or and and and none of that is on the table right and and and they have to twist themselves into these knots in order to to praise trump in the
can't even I mean if someone is laid out there on your next to the joint statement that emerge North Korea like they did, did the there is no justification for what they did
well and of course, in the other problem with your on Dale, all they would talk about is the mall,
the money that around, but that's now using t note, fund terrorism, blah blah blah Donald Trump was talking with
young. You know what, if I can, on each side, property in Pyongyang on a ridge is going to get a high. So what happens next weird? We think this ends up is talking point
Pompeii was saying: sanctions relief, no sanctions relief until they denuclearize the North Koreans are saying the opposite. Where do you guys think this goes from here? Let me Pompeii was talking about a time frame where they'll do significant denuclearization in Trump's first term, so he's looking to get real successes racked up in the next year,
till two years. I guess so. I guess he's now got the ball and he's going to do all the diplomacy that should have been done on the front end on the back end. Now that they've, given North Korea to cease propaganda, win he's like the most likely scenario, is that this could bog down in minutia, but the trumps only genius is. He knows that creating a big splashy made for tv primetime event is a thing as going to get covered, and then everyone is going to forget about it a month from now six months from now in the problem is going to be. There he's so leave me sitting ICBM's nuclear weapons, chemical weapons by logic,
the scary on the planet, is in Kim Jong intense to tune into the next episode of Pyongyang Apprentice yeah. Well. What? What and what? What I think is gonna happen here is the North Koreans know that Trump needs us to look like a win right, and so they have that
And what they'll do is they'll do what they've done in the past and I think every need to be prepared for this.
They'll every now and then the invited much international journalists and and all the put them in front of some building. Let's say this is a this is a place where we know this is a reactor that and the blood that building and see you know see, were giving up under the weapons, but that's it. They control that the guy. The question is what you, because they, what they'll do is they'll keep all their nuclear weapons. Someplace else you know, and and and the question is, are there international inspectors who are actually have access to all of the north korean program?
in a time table for them to give up all of their nuclear weapons. If that is not what is negotiated, then they are not giving up their nuclear weapon well and now they know that when they put this propaganda out, it won't just be them putting it out.
It will be amplified by the United States government and the you know.
And Donald Trump's propaganda network in the United States. So they now have a huge ally in showing that all this land hello, this post, helpfully we ought to have the trailer right. I feel like I did you make of that movie, trailer like what you guys didn't make a trailer like that when you're at the NSC, I meeting our with Ernie Moonies talking about the intricacies of centrifuge technology. What, apparently, I should've been making like the trailer for top gun? Three sure Kim Jong Moon is a super hero. Don't go basketball in the middle of a like basketball Bester, so lonely made an appearance in that. What was that orders were just somebody spent some time on that day like like that that that's like what they were doing to prepare for this. You know its it's! It's really
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promo code, crooked for twenty dollars off your first seek purchase. I want talk about immigration here
the situation has. It stands right now, couple days ago, the Trump Administration decided to urge a federal court in Texas to declare the Dhaka is a legal so that they can finally shut down the program once and for all, which would subject about seven hundred thousand young Americans to deportations. Meanwhile, Trump's new family separation policy has resulted in at least five hundred children being ripped away from their parents. Since May, this included a baby who is taken by ice while her mother was breast feeding her and up in because they're now taking so many children, the Trump Administration is looking at building camps to house them. They could fit up to five hundred five thousand children right now. Many of the children are in detention center. That includes a gigantic mural of Donald Trump. Next to a quote from art of the deal. That is not a joke. That is real awesome journals for
we invited in yesterday it I have to say it is like so hard to read stuff. What do you guys? What do you guys think about this when you read the stories like what why why are they doing this? Aside from just a pension for abject cruelty- because I I don't- I can't figure out- I think that's it- I mean I think Trump has a cabinet meeting where he goes ballistic on the head of department, Homeland Security, because immigration, illegal immigration hasn't been run down to zero, so they go and they implement the cruelest policies. They can possibly imagine I mean a tent city. Putting children intense outdoors at military posts in Texas to live unaccompanied sounds like Joe are piles policies have been national is the sounds like the coolest thing you could do to a kid and, like your there's, a storing your ties with his meat packing plant Tennessee, that's just heartbreaking either these are you know it. I
minute immigrants who are who are doing the worst jobs in the country, the killing and dismembering house, not one american workers less to do this work and these families are working their off to do something. No one else wants to do in their criminalizing that behavior, without without even touching the employers- I it's just it's in vicious yeah can I should- and I wanna talk about you know why this his particular policy now is so awful and also very different from what we've seen in the past, because we've had a broken immigration system in this country for very, very long time
we had it before Obama stepped into the White House. We had it once he left from the White House, then you were there. I think we had just left. You were there in two thousand and thirteen two thousand and fourteen. When we had this crisis at the border, where there was an influx of unaccompanied minors. These are children who are thirteen one thousand, four hundred and fifteen
that were sent by their parents on their own to the United States, fleeing violence from places like Guatemala and Honduras. They show up at the border. Suddenly, department of Health and Human services and a whole bunch of other agencies do not have room for these children and that's why and so they're in these centers as well, we dealt with this two thousand and thirteen two thousand and fourteen. How did how did we deal with that.
Crisis verses? What is happening right now? Well, in a number of ways I mean you know. First of all, we did something that that they've completely cut gave the century abandoned, which is we actually try to deal with some this?
problems right. So we went down to Central America. We provided a lot of his. The first way part a lot of information that you don't do. This don't send your kids on these journeys to like they there's, there's huge danger associate with that. We also tried to provide a lot of assistance to improve the situation in those countries and and and and not just security systems, but to help with economic development governance there so that you you get at some of the the root causes of this migration, and you know they have taken a much more security oriented approach to those countries and, and then you know what we try to do is is deal with each of these cases on the merits. You're not just have an approach where were just trying to wholesale.
Everybody back in you. You want you to understand what the circumstances are. Is there a threat? I mean one of things that so just awful to watch here is they're not making allowances for people who are fleeing with gentlemen right a silence island, yes right like so did to see you know not just the fact that people are leaving some very violent places and also from Guatemala, but you know I saw people who are at risk of domestic violence. Your people have credible claims like you, you would try normally to adjudicate the case before you
and try to understand what is the risk of sending this person back, and so they abandoning them any recognition of
I mean what I see when I look at the stories, which are, I think, the hardest things to read the Trump administration. There's no sense.
Of the humanity of of any of these people. It's like they're, just they're they're in Kenya, and not just an inconvenience or an opportunity
to show that we don't want that so that they are using these children and young children, children who come with their parents. So these are one
which were five, which is different, did not happen in ministration
using them as leverage. So this
ACLU lawyer who's been dealing with this for twenty five years. He talked to Michelle Goldberg at the New York Times, and he said look I I've been doing this for
well. I dealt with this during the Obama administration, the Bush administration. This is the worst I've ever seen in my entire life. This is beyond anything. He said: they've decided that treating kids in this fashion will influence the adults not to seek asylum and they're, trying to hurt the children to influence the parents or their basic
think of the parents. We don't want to give you asylum if you really want asylum you're going to lose your kit
said as much on the record and pr is, is a deterrent. I mean it is what you're saying is. It is partly it's totally discarded talk about MS thirteen, like it's the biggest threat to our country, down events about it, but the same time his administration doesn't recognize anyone fleeing. Ms thirteen is legitimate asylum case well and- and I think we have to understand the politics
This I mean, first of all, one of the strange things that happened in twenty fourteen. Is we started it? You, you detect what
messaging is on the right and then the right wing media ecosystem. They were going into places and saying you know all of these uh
many children be resettled in New Hampshire, something they weren't, but they were scaring people that a center there, these massive influxes of of you know of immigrants. In particular, you know unaccompanied children in their communities so as to get them to vote a certain way, and that was part of their messaging in twenty fourteen in the mid term elections- and I think we're gonna see here that this MS thirteen message it the paint just like the pain, all refugees with ISIS Brush their painting all
Anybody who, from south of the border as a potential gang member and I think we're going to see their political messaging is they have to dehumanize these people and they had to turn them into a threat. An if you, if you are forced to confront the humanity of all these individuals who are just trying to get here and have a better life, it's harder for them to do that. So I think the politics
this is a trump is turning immigration and all forms into a national security issue, and he's gonna say just you know just like all refugees are ISIS. You know that you know I'm a thirteen is, is you know in all of our communities? Might keep them out. When is Thomas has in fact like
These are the victims of MS thirteen in Central America, some of whom are desperately seeking some form of a sign. I think we also have to have a conversation for it, hopefully for the next democratic administration about what to do with ice, yeah and customs and border patrol, because this is not just trumpet people in the White House. These are these agents
and they're saying things to people like you're, never going to see your kid again, an ripping a baby away, while the mothers breast feeding it. I mean these are not like explicit directives coming from Trump. These are like agents doing this kind of stuff, and I remember
Brock Obama White House in early on, they were trying to make sure that I
and the apartment security sort of re prioritize is what kind of deportations they do and it took away.
Time to do that they were too slow. Probably Ministration was too slow and pushing it, but a lot of it was ice, basically turn.
Around to Brock Obama, when he was telling them to change their priorities for deportation. Saying fuck, you were going, do what we want. I mean this is a bit of an out of control.
Agency right here and you hear people on the left, saying, abolish ice and I'll. Tell you at first I was like well that sounds pretty crazy, but after the last couple months, I'm like yeah, maybe there's huge implications to be previous administrations, didn't refer
these these cases for prosecution and now they're, referring all of them and you're. Seeing like four five six times the number of cases go into these courts, which are completely bogging them down. They can't do anything else with these immigration cases and people are not getting to process in any way, and meanwhile, like just imagine the fear that is spreading through communities.
Throughout the United States, like if you're yeah, you're, you're undocumented? There is no way or if your green card holder now there's no way you're seeking urgent medical attention there.
In no way you're seeking help for domestic abuse or a crime against you. You are more scared of the cops and scared of ice than probably anybody else, so that is really really dangerous. Yeah yeah- and I I ii okay, it I I can't help but think of how this low
x, informer, the other parts of the world. You know we are losing and if you, if you cut, consistently ask people what you're my about America, a part of it is that we welcome people from around the world. Part of it is that we speak up for democracy and rights. The things that people look to us as a beacon of hope,
four are being systematically dismantled under Trump, and it's it's. If this is happening in another country, I think we would we be appalled by it and you're ripping children apart from their family,
a point paying no attention to the the dangers to these people. I mean part of the hardest thing. When I see the stories of people you have children being you know, separated some back. What's gonna happen them I mean right. Such
can be killed. Some these people are gonna, be completely dusted, some have already yeah. I was a kid. He was deported, who went back to Mexico and he was with his cousin and they were out one one night right as soon as he was deported and he was he was killed yeah, so there there's. These are real consequences. So there are there. What to do about this? There are
March is happening all over the country. Today, on Thursday, there should be events in the future. We saw John Lewis, you know at his age still out there protesting
love them in yesterday, with other members of Congress go to family.
Along org this website, where you can go to find out
event near you, where you can participate in a march to keep families together, you can also donate
Kristin Barlowe, any our good friend whose birthday is today happy birthday president does and she tweeted this morning. Instead of a a birthday present, she tweeted the website for the refugee and immigrant center for education and legal services. It's races, Texas, DOT, Org, R, a I c e s, T e x, a s dot
You can donate their they're doing that organizations doing the best job trying to actually help fund legal services that are trying to reunite children from their parents and then, of course, the other the other
Ave here is legislation in Congress
and he said, vote on a pair of immigration bills for next week to basically stop
run by moderates in his own party, have been pushing a discharge petition to force votes on proposals to protect dreamers. The moderates failed because, of course, they failed because they were
in moderate, and they have no power. All right didn't get the memo that, like the retiring member, can suddenly grow.
You know like like a like. I mean you know he does not care yeah, yeah yeah for all the times were like what Paul Ryan doesn't want to do this, because if you did, he lose his job yeah. Well, you know what now what our job- and you still don't give a that's. I can weasel doc question about Scott Pruett today, if there's anyone that can kick around at this point. It's Scott Pruett, the big most corrupt administration, official history.
But not not Paul Ryan. He hasn't. He hasn't had time to read the stories so
the bills in Ryan's office will put up a vote but that he wants a part of for his been written by hardline nativist. That's awful, the other is a so called compromise bill which I do not have. A lot of hope for
but reportedly they're. Looking at dreamer protections and ending family separation in exchange for ending the
versity lottery in cuts and legal immigration. I have to say I have more of a stomach now for
or a bill. That is not one that we would generally like if it does protect dreamers and it does end family separation like if there are cuts to legal immigration in the future. I think that's fun,
awful and we need to rectify it. But we are facing emergency right now where people are being deported and children are being indian camps and like
You know if the Republicans are using that as leverage to get what they want on future policies like. I would be fine with doing that right now, yeah, because this is it. This is an emergency and when we hopefully take back Congress and take back the presidency than we can, you know, fix this, but
But that's that's that's if it goes anywhere, which who knows it probably won't
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cross the country and that's about all we have to say, but we're not going to go into long, drawn out story because Jon Lovitz on vacation, hopefully racking up some debt via the cash app use. It downloaded pod saved
So this this all brings us to our last topic, which is the trump ification of the Republican Party, which is basically now,
cult and I do not say called that was Bob Corker, this, the chairman of the Senate Foreign,
his committee, the other day, who called his own party a cult. So
Just in case, we need a reminder of how bad this is. The republican nominee for the Senate in Virginia is a confederate sympathizer in twenty eighteen. His name is Corey Stewart and he likes to brag that he was Trump before Trump Trump, of course, endorsed this man as soon as he won. This is a man who is posed in front of
confederate flag he's done events with Jason Kessler, who organized the Charlottesville rally. He called Paul Nehlen, the actual
actual Nazis, who ran against Paul Ryan, a hero,
arsenal hero, personal hero, personal hero,
what were your reactions to Corey Stewart?
the nomination. In Virginia he tried he tried to run for governor an
must be narrowly beat him.
In the nomination, but now he is one percent. You know I mean he
in some suburban. He wanted
in county, it's very low, but that's one of Virginia's wealthiest suburbs and what's horrifying.
Is he's laundering. His white nationalist views through a pledge of undying support for Trump. That's just sort of become a proxy one for the other, and so everyone is willing to support the blatant racism that should have embarrassed
before. But you know, the sad thing is, the Republican Party can barely find the courage to denounce him
'cause. They know, there's almost no difference between him and Trump, because these are the same assholes who supported Roy Moore,
and there's no doubt in my mind that is sort of any chance of beating Kane Mitch. Mcconnell would be out raising money for him. 'cause they care about is money like corkers right
It is a cult, but anyone who watched wild wild country knows that early on in a cult, you got a chance
take out my unknown Sheila when you let her get all powerful and she's got like ten thousand people there and then poisoning the city. Spoiler, alert
do you know you're you're screwed? Now you will do you own. It hits his party it's yeah and I just want men here. I'm just gonna go to my book real quick, because it was really interesting to write the book and relive the last ten years, because I I I realized how much what trump is you know was something was building. While we were in office.
Right. So until you guys back to wait, do you guys remember fight the smears? Do you have yeah so to fight? Because nothing was tell me a little in a rental yeah and just take you with a quick evolution you're there used to be a problem back in the stone age
and we were on the Obama campaign. Wait. What we were dealing
forwarded emails right, so basic
Everybody's racist uncle was writing an email that Barack Obama was a Muslim or he was born in Kenya. Or what have you
but these were getting so forwarded around, but he was a palestinian terrorist
They were getting so Ford around that we actually had to set up a crack unit under Tommy Vietor to fight this
Just give field, organizers and other people like the answers to these things. Now what I've kind of realized right is it that forward
email is now the President United States, and that he is the racist yeah, but it it didn't happen overnight. What happened is the forty
emails became. Sarah Palin right
they kind of got mainstream through Palin and
She was saying those things on the campaign trail pollen around the terrorists. Then that became the tea party right and that you had people running for office. You know who
echoing those messages, then LO and behold, there's a birther movement
it didn't come out of nowhere? It was part a part of all those things. Sarah Palin, Pallen, real Americans, all the fight, this mirror stuff. Then you get
Donald Trump is the leader of the birther movement. Nobody smacks that down right. So suddenly
We have a dynamic work even to this day a majority of Republicans believe Barack Obama wasn't born United States
So the notion that I get be like
even Ocean liner in Boston, but the notion that what I have said this just happened right because
Well adding GonNA, Benghazi? So let me just if I may so then your we have brothers and and then Bam Ghazi. Not I what I describe in the book, this bizarre experience. Where
Benghazi would flare up. There be some reason that it's in the news,
then it would seemingly go away, but actually it would grow like some scary organism at the bottom of the ocean,
Then it just go on to these platforms like Breitbart or Infowars or Reddit threads, and what I would see is:
every now and then add a twitter account right, like I'd, get hundreds of people tweeting at me just unhinged. Consider
there stuff and I knew somewhere out there in the darkness of the right wing media ecosystem, someone of just done
segment on me on talk, radio or some internet conspiracy, theory that I was in your running guns,
brother or something, but but basically to understand
you have to understand Benghazi, of conspiracy theory on racist brand of politics, all tribal, but again the thread to me. You know you can take it from fight the smears to Sarah Palin to tea party to birth. There is an
Benghazi, to Donald Trump and they've been mortgaging their souls to the
that dynamic people like Paul Ryan for ten years now, so this didn't become the party of Trump because he won. It was the party of Trump before Trump stood on the first debate stage in the primary campaign in twenty fifteen, and until the Republicans realize that and realize how deep the problem and the rock
is that they have to deal with like it's that's going to be the part and where this all ends up is what Tommy mentioned in Fairfax County Virginia like. Let's talk about Fairfax County Prince William County,
all right for people who are from DC or from that area. These are some of the wealthiest suburbs of Washington Dc Fucking Corey Stewart, when Fairfax County by more than four
one thousand votes. The median income in Fairfax County is one hundred and fifteen thousand dollars. Economic anxiety is very low, one hundred and fifteen thousand dollars. This is what people in Fairfax County- and these are the people who voted for confederate sympathizer Corey Stewart, so this whole thing after Trump One where we like go into these like factory towns and stuff, like that, undoubtedly those people are experiencing economic anxiety
but but why Trump won Trump one white people of all income groups, all income groups, all education groups. This was like other things and also the other thing is
it's getting worse, because last year Corey Stewart didn't win in Fairfax County against Ed Gillespie, and this year he did
yeah and this year he did and that's Donald Trump into Ben's point that this is not new. I mean there's a congressman in Sw Iowa named Steve King, who is a white supremacist. He he retweets these literal nazi sympathizers, who are just the worst people on the planet and then ducks press questions about it. So you know reporters have a hard time, calling him what he is he's a white supremacist. He doesn't believe in mixing races he's racist as he gets and he's been in Congress in two thousand and three and every time there's a presidential campaign
Iowa? They all go in the kiss the ring and they kiss his ass, and so he and him that little cesspools been there the whole time and like never forget you mentioned Infowars Donald Trump went on Infowars. He told Alex Jones how great his reputation was. I mean this is a guy who deny sandy hook. This guy is recent.
He's like last week, said that Anthony Bourdain was murdered because he was going to come out for Trump who sent people by the way crazy, send people up to Newtown,
badger and harass the parents of people whose children were killed to validate his conspiracy. There I mean these are. These are like these are just people who you have a political disagreement with. These are
Add people have been allowed in yeah like and see, and Steve King. I mean there's a couple days ago now he re tweeted, this self avowed sympathizer, not people come in. He said I'm a sympathizer this guy that he retweeted. He is not deleted that tweet between this up right now and no republic
and has denounced evening for doing this. So if any reporters out there who would love to get Paul Ryan on the record about Steve, king or anyone, any Republican on the record, but with Steve King is done, please do because what has happened. Is these white nationalists, nazi sympathizer that confederate sympathizers, this dark, dark conspiracy, oriented part of the right they have made common cause with the tax cutting Paul Ryan type.
Service because they figure this is our governing coalition, and this is how we take power, and I don't think we have the language like to talk about this, who he right yet in the sense that you know. Sometimes I think, if you're a mainstream journalists in DC, you think well Steve King is a is kind of a cook rack I yeah, but
Let's, just if you look I, I challenge him to scan kind of the right wing media world from Fox to Breitbart and look at the vigil. That's been directed at Jeff Flake versus a criticism. That's been directed at Steve King yeah and see what you'll find the point being that that Steve King is the mainstream of the republican Party.
You know? Jeff flake has been much more excoriated condemned by their media organs than Steve. King ever has been that this is who they are and
art. I think for people to get their mind around the fact that
no. No, this isn't just a couple crooks who
so every now and then a Republican can condemn on twitter. No, this is there more there more their beast that they've constructed rejects Jeff Flake, far more than it rejects confederate and white supremacist thing I saw last couple days. Is this Fox interview with Marco Rubio and the Fox host looks at Marco Rubio was like you tweet it that Kim Jong Moon? Is this cookie bad guy? But the President United States, Donald Trump, said he was really smart in his people love him. Do you want to reconsider?
tweet Center Rubio. An Rubio is just like looking at her like what no, no, I don't want to reconsider, like what world are we living in the Fucking Fox say this is just like. Oh no, it's totaled their silence. All their acquiescence has brought us here
they were the only ones that have the credibility in the credentials to push back on Donald Trump in these voices within their party and they all work how'd
and now there's all these smart analysis pieces that I think, are right by people like Jonathan Martin. That said, you know these recent results mean that you know
what's the name Sanford Sanford Sanford him losing means that the real risk in politics right now is getting primary for
in that and if we had a primary, is speaking out against Donald Trump. You know a bomb inching like according to the book. You know we were. It may comes another problem. Part of yours in your he said to me: a bomber flying to Paris for the final negotiations on the Paris climate deal you kind of when I was way to say. You know say that the moment that a a major political party
deny something like climate change is the moment that it's lost its mind, yeah and- and I said well yeah, even the national front, these kind of a far right parties and in France and in Europe you know they accept conscience and not think about it like if you, if you want to win so badly, that you'll deny that fact you kind of lost it, and the reason that that's relevant here is that
Does the tax cutting deregulating wing of the party once it became so craven that they would deny the the signs of climate change
They would also get into bed with anybody they needed to win like that. These are not all around yeah. These are just yeah, but that they'll tolerate down trump like the there there's a there's, a
compromise it was made somewhere along the way. Look: the Democrats of all kinds of plans, yeah, right, yeah and and there's a lot of fall to find, but there's certain things that you just feel like the Democratic Party wouldn't sell out. You know it just to win an election and something has happened in the last ten or twenty years
where in did that there is no there's, no compromise. They won't make if they feel like it, keeps him power. The problem is they made so many compromises that the people in power are the representation of the ugliest part of what they've done? If it's all worth
for tax cuts in owning the lips yeah, that's what you get. The NRA is holding its next meeting over Moscow and again, whatever you segment, I mean it's a
the only way to fix this- is the total and complete defeat of the Republican Party
it's it's just it's not an exaggeration, I mean we literally have to vote out as many Republicans and start over in Virginia
Obviously, that means TIM, Kaine, Reelecting, TIM Kaine, Steve King, has
donut in Iowa, Jd Scholten just won the primary he's the Democrat now who's running against Steve, king, so
If you, if you want to donate to him, that be great
and and yeah and all over the kind of like Texas, I mean the Republicans, the incentive structures change it to start, seeing that they're going to lose and that I mean so like that's why it's a it's a long shot, but a guy like paid over can win yeah. It's something says like the
new people are voting. You know, like the electorate, is changing 'cause, you people are so disgusting and that's I think. What else do we need to have tiger?
the elector changing is the way to do it, and that's what I mean. We said this before
Obama doesn't win Iowa with the caucus goers, who usually caucus in Iowa
the only Ones Iowa. If you expand the universe of people who who vote hook caucus- and that needs to be the case right now too Ben RD
Thank you very much for joining us yeah. No, thank you and I I I'm going on book tour here so next week, I'll be in Saint Louis Dallas. Miami Philadelphia come back here.
So there any friends in the pod who want to turn up. I've got this stuff, so I will also say just as the electric changing will help us win elections. The book buying public
can help make my my my book a best seller. I I'm just behind Newt on,
list come on guys. So if you guys can help me get up there at least get closer to Newt will send a message to all the people who just buy those reading books and put them on the shelves.
For your visit on a website or something yeah I'll, add up all I'm treating them out, and it's great it's great to see you guys, you can come out, ask questions I'll, be signing books on how to talk to people. After these events and and it's great when people come out and clearly listen, you guys actually sucks really.
Really good. Yes, I read it in weekend meeting because I had to 'cause I wanted to, and I don't read books and I should add, everybody should also, of course, by Dan's book. An people need to buy my book before the fight for Judge
not comes down the tracks right and runs us.
I've basically only been reading my friends books and it's been fantastic. Then thank you for joining us has been a lot
fun and that we will see you guys next week, Jon Lovitz back from
cation on Monday and then and then Dan, and I will then and then we'll be on tour for the end of next week. So you'll be you'll, be hearing this life. The book is the world as it is by Ben Rhodes. Fantastic. My mark,
buy it, and- and we will see you guys next week- thanks see if I
Transcript generated on 2019-11-13.