« Pod Save America

“Yo, collusion!”

2018-11-29

Marcy Wheeler joins Jon and Dan to break down Individual-1’s very bad day and discuss the future of the Trump investigation, Pelosi wins her caucus vote for Speaker, Schumer kicks off shutdown negotiations, and Sherrod Brown shows Democrats how to talk about Trump and the economy.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The present sponsor Save America is the procurator. These days does not like people ground, Tommy, fester, red, blue or somewhere in between one thing, we think everyone can agree on is civility just gonna hiring, talented people is often challenging and jobs, they make you wait around for the right. Can it's magically show up are not smart? No, you noticed smart. What zipper Gerda Zip recruited outcome such crooked, where you can find qualified candidates fast, unlike other job sites, zipper careers and wait for Canada to fight. You it finds them. For you, John is smart to email, your buddy and say hey assigned to them. We got shit, we talked about. Don't tell anyone, data Mahler pay. Could you go? Do some clue informing collusion and then delete as email user collusion. It will go away forever, zipper powerful, magic technology skins. Thousands of residues identifies people with the right skills, education and experience for your job and that actively invite them to apply no more sliding through
resume, always sluggish lessons on great less waiting and more hiring. It's no wonder the dipper written but one by employers in the U S and that's from hiring sites. Untruss pilot, with over one thousand reviews right now, are looseness contrived to procure for free at the crooked link. Superseded outcome such crooked that zipper Gerda come such crooked super here and our complex crooked, smarter I welcome the pod, save America, I'm John, fairer Andean Pfeiffer today on the pod, we're gonna kick it off with friend of the POD Marcy Wheeler who's gonna talk all the latest in the Mahler investigation, which is proof of a lot. This weekend,
busy morning outside a lot of crimes. Lotta crimes were also talking of the democratic leadership fight in the house, the shutdown negotiations in the Senate and how the GM lay are shaping. The Democrats. Economic message also check out. The newest episode applauds the world Tommy gets a run down on news from around, globe with Ben roads. They I'll talk to former. U S ambassador to Russia MIKE Mc fall about the latest crisis between Russia and Ukraine. You're also going to want to check out the new keep it episode this week, the IRA and Louis variety. Our higher has been in. For a little bit, he's been workin on his british accent. So it's pretty grim episode check that out one, more housekeeping thing, a public service announcement, deadline to unroll and coverage or change coverage under the affordable. Correct is December. Fifteenth fewer people have selected a plan this year, since Trump has done everything he can to sabotage the programme. So please
Let people know the market is open. You can still get a very affordable plan with good benefits. Just go to health care, DOT, Gov, ok! So weaken news about the investigation into Donald Trump in his dopey gang of criminals. That in mood but are not limited to Michael Colin Powell, metaphor, Roger Stone in Jerome Course see in here with us Talk about all this news, nowhere! of all things: Russia, Mauler welcome back to the pod mercy for having adventure. I want to be the nor of all things, Russia or or Trumpeton Wood Miller. For that matter, yikes out of the game, you have us do Let's start with the news this morning about the new member of the resistance Michael Con Humph, what is what is Cohen's guilty? Please tell us about a potential conspiracy between Trump his associates and the russian government
and Vladimir Putin. Personally, there we ve got thrown around named in the same charging document so that sort of newsworthy, so I'm coming just basically plead guilty too lying to Congress when he, when he told Congress that these days, she's about a Trump tower in Moscow in two thousand fifteen. Two thousand sixteen. He told them they all ended and genuine January before the elections before the primary started before the Russians really thought, they'd get something off of Donald Trump and What in fact, Mahler laid out it to be the truth today is that he kept working on that Trump tower. Moscow deal entail. Basically, the day the Dnc hack was revealed, in which case he cancelled a trip days before he was about to leave, but
until that point so up through the time when Trump got the nomination and actually kind of intensified after Trump got the nomination. He was working on going to Moscow to finalize a trump cowardly, and why would he? What do you think lie about that. Why would that be a big deal as their legal implications? There? Is it just sort of appearances sake like what what causes you to lie to Congress about something like this well here, said specifically that he did so too to try and limit the scope of the rest investigation, and remember that tromp had had the near times very immediately set up a red line for him say that if Mauler started investigating his business deals that was gonna be beyond the pale and he read. That again, when Sdn, why, when, when Newark prosecutors raided Cohen's house
presumably knowing they would find what we see today, which is that, at the time the Russians were dealing dirt to tromp at the time when trumps campaign was is very aggressively trying to set up meetings with Putin. We know part of the reason he wanted that meeting with Putin was because it was part of this Trump Tower deal. Trump was going to profit personally out of it So there are tons of reasons why Michael Cohen lied about that. But but you know it was again starting with the fact that this puts water Putin and from Tromp in a conspiracy together and oh by the way Trump at the last minute cancelled. His meeting with Putin in Argentina over the weekend thinking inventing excuses, but all of a sudden it looks bad when your meeting with the guy who's gonna pay off with that with their largest hotel in Moscow deal, I mean to be fair. He said that he cancel the media because of disagreements over you. Could the policy around Ukraine's we gotta give trunk is
the benefit of the doubt, but in all seriousness the went either. We have read reports that trunk turned in his answer to the special council last week and is there a connection between trumped journey those answers in last week and this file today ever involving yes. So at the the events of metaphor and Durham course, but that feels like old news at this point We know that he would have been asked questions about whether Roger Stone told him about his outreach to Wikileaks. We know that he would have been asked a question about whether he knew in advance about the Jew. Ninth meeting We know that he would have been asked how much
she knew about this from Tower deal, basically about real estate deals involving Cohen and Felix Haider, and we presume that he would have lied because that's what he does, but also because that's what we can interpret from his Prussians over the last couple of days, and and this that the plea deal, that the information and pleaded makes a pretty clear that it says that Cohen kept everyone briefed cat. He kept tramp tramp briefed. He originally Cohen said that he had only talk to Trump about it times, but this information reveals that he continued to keep trump in the loop about it, presumably right up until the day on on June, Fourteenth when when he stopped I'm here, so by the way kept on he kept family. It's not down junior and get named like trumped does as individual one, but he kept family briefed, which we assume means dungeon here, which we assume means this, is
another perjury charge against Don Junior for lying to Congress because he clearly told Congress. There was no deal. That seems like trouble just to go back to the way now old, Paul Manifold NEWS, what do you make of both? Why man afford so lied to Mahler? And why he was lying to Mahler about right. So I'm gonna Know- and I said this yesterday and it's really hard to find good legal commentary on going on with Durham course. He and Paul manner for one because they're, both such liars, but that's true, of a lot of criminals, but because it so hard to understand how lawyers might calculate on a pardon. On a presidential, pardon, oh by the way, one of the things that ABC said Cohen talked Mahler about his pardons, so rode right, but in
case. Who knows what explains men affords behaviour? It might just be that he's a compulsive liar, but he he entered into plea deal in September that took his that the prospect of a trial dominating the campaign season off the off the map. He proffered at least off that more entered into the plea deal with him, but Mahler built it to be too to protect himself so, for example, whereas Rick Gates and Cohen's plea deal. Say that if they want to declare them in violation of their deal, they have to show proponents of evidence with with men there, there only gonna have to show good faith there, only to show you know here. He lied and, and the judges cannot say, while you no good faith that that that meets that Odin, I'm so they sort of expected he might lie now. Wall Street Journal has said that he lied about his ties to Russia in his business deals and we
that that means two things right off the bat. One is remember that, as part of our plea deal metaphor had to force forty six million dollars which, by the way, it means metaphor by himself, has paid for the entire Mahler investigation so far by if man Afore is continuing to hide his business deals. That means he may have money stashed away. That would explain why entered into tablet and business deal. You know it's a lot easier to sign up to losing forty six million dollars. If you ve got another hundred million stashed away in Ukraine or Cyprus, or something like that right, you, do you have any other. He deal that he reportedly that that we know Oh he lied about is, is his ongoing communications with a guy named concentrating Clim Nick who might be called his handler? He is You know, even rickets has said that he knew he was former russian intelligence of the FBI says: he's he's ongoing russian intelligence.
Calumnies would be. The g. Are you handler for trumps campaign manager at the time of the year pain and in, and we know that mothers looking into whether metaphor left from being fired from the campaign and went and took a cruise with with clinic and with Tom Brok, who is a big huge funds for trumpet and a big player and his inauguration. Can I just ask what what connections? If any, do you see between the sort of hack, hacking, conspiracy with Wiki weeks and the immense and everything else and some of these potential business deals between Trump, his organization and Russia yeah. I did a piece honest, I was back in May. Was forever ago even more forever. Go then the metaphor, the Mckenna Report NEWS, but I did it, I did it. I did a six,
series on what are the questions that we knew at that point, that mauler wanted to post a trump. What they told us about a potential conspiracy between Trump in Russia and at all holds up. I have to say myself tat myself on my back, but you know I you know I laid out that there was a kind of this there were there. Was this land of a relationship starting in twenty thirteen, with the with the Miss Miranda pageant. Ah, there were these floated. Business deals trumpet always wondered business deal in those business deals. Were renewed at a time when this conspiracy was in the works. Then there was the quit that there was the offer of dirt in exchange for sanctions and some other policy consider
issues and we ve seen evidence to support all of those sense may in this case you know that one of the things that really important about cut what we would, what we learned in Cohen's pleading today is that part setting up the deal was setting up a meeting between Putin and Trump and that That time line that is laid out here. Utter parallels. The time line that was laid out in the pop plea deal about a million years ago, which shows that Papa blessed came in, and he said I want to set up a meeting with Putin and the campaign really receptive to their purported coffee boy offering to set up a meeting with with Latin
Putnam and now we know why, because part of this trauma Tower deal was the notion that trumpet Putin, we're gonna, have a meeting, and we see the counterpart of that with Cohen, also trying to set up a a deal and also trying to work towards a a potent the same time. So when you read this plea deal in conjunction with conjunction with the populace Plato and then the other thing that it tells us is give you think back to the language that Rob Goldstone used to set up that meeting. With Don Junior, who of course knew that this tromp tower deal was on the table and probably knew that a Putin meeting was part of that right, and he says this. This meeting is part of the larger russian government, help for your father. So that meeting was set up in the context of a larger conversation about russian assistance to tramp, and so I think part of
the receptivity, the Don Junior showed is explained by the fact that there were gonna get the tallest hotel deal in Moscow out of it on top of winning the election, I mean, remember term, probably didn't think he was gonna when he thought it and again from tower deal, and instead he wine and now you know now we're stuck with him, but we get to learn about what a sleazy was dirt. You know how he leverage this campaign to only got what he which was the term towered element in the trumped. Our deal, I think, is what the rush. And used a because he was,
we're gonna win right back in the golden days of we didn't think trumpet ever win by its it's, what they used as his pay off one way or another to be their partner and in undermining the election, so the other we're going to entice him to sort of cooperate with by dangling the Trump Russia deal and then once they found sort of willing cooperators this at oh. By the way, would you also like some dirt on Hillary Clinton to help when the election right and in that time, from was really was really compressed? I mean you know: Cohen, was working on this through May rights. So after the time when Papadopoulos told the campaign about the emails Cohen was working on setting up the meeting co and had a ticket to Russia all ready to go, and then the washing-
this report on the Dnc hack and he calls up and cancelled, and I have a very strong hunch that, for example, the Papadopoulos plea deal where man efforts as we're not gonna, make any show of taking these meetings, but that's really putting things on ice, but but still carrying on the conspiracy Eddie. I think that yes, Trump needed to be brought back on board after the dance he hack was revealed, but I might my suspicion is the Russians God him before the end of the summer, and that's that shows in things like tromp. You know openly asking the Russians to hack Hillary Clinton and then Russians in Moscow doing so immediately. Thereafter, that is really quite a story: Another thing that come out in the reporting of the last few days, which I know also feels like a million years ago- is this defence cooperation agreement between man afforded tromp that has persisted past manna. Forts original pleading also
a couple. Questions on this one. How unusual as this could Mahler have prevented us from happening as part of the terms of the plea deal and you written that man afford is pardon proof in how Mahler restructured this. If that's the case, what incentives manifold have to keep helping Trump yeah he's party proof. I keep trying to think this through. So it's it's completely unusual for people in joint defence agreement tune to continue going after after a deal I mean remember that might Flynn very ostentatiously withdrew from that dp and that's when we know that he was going to flip. Of course Jerome Course. He was trying the same thing if we ever get around talking about that, which also has a million years ago, but but with man afford its particularly notable there's been some some bad respond to the New York Times story of this as if to suggest that Mueller,
no idea. This was still going on. That's wrong. The day of the plea deal politico and a couple of people were like no Rudy knew about it and he that the cooperation agreement still went on political. Had another report, maybe a month ago saying you know, Rudy still talks too down and Kevin Downing Manifolds lawyer, all the time so mauler new through this entire period, that that metaphor continued to speak to two trump and presumably in particular, because there was no no gag on his plea deal. Unlike rickets, he presumably was very careful about what information he shared with Manafort and how much he showed his hands to manifest. Knowing that it was all gonna go right back to Rudy and so my guess is that Trump couldn't take anything into account when he filled out his open book test and turn in the answers
in answers tomorrow. So we should assume that you know he thought he could, get away with lies on the metaphor, related questions and now we know from Mullah that they have evidence that Manner Fort was lying about some of these issues, and we know that one of the questions metaphor it was asked about is whether Trump new ahead of time about the about the Jew, ninth meeting so It was really unusual, I'm sure, as I said, mother built, that the the manifold plea deal to be safe and I think to two to at least bring advantages to himself one way, spring advantages to himself one way or another, whether or not manifest actually kept up his under the deal. What men afford expects to get from it? It's possible because this is one important reminder for people trying to understand this largest, three, you normally in presidential scandals. All of the major players have really superb lawyers, and that's just not the case here
Trump is way under lawyers for the for his criminal exposure metaphor. There's no again, we don't know what it is to be a defence attorney nowhere That's your your best deal for your client is a presidential pardon every lawyer, I doctor to says Kevin Downing, will never ever be able to make a deal with the OJ again because he's burned himself in in working. This metaphor: please deal the way he did if men, Sport has a hundred million dollars stashed away in Cyprus and thinks he can get away if he is pardoned. Maybe that explains it. You know he is one of the reasons I said it was. It was. Pardon proof is that he is susceptible to charge, in Virginia and New York if he is pardoned Anna be surprised to see Barbara Underwood, the the New York attorney General
roll out charges soon, just to be safe in case Trump decides to a kind of pre empt apart, and so that so that their manner for it will never be released and be able to run off to Cyprus. But you know is it possible that man a fort think six years or to let's hope it's only two, I'm until the end of it from term and then, if you commute his sentence, he won't be it do you I did, it doesn't make any sense. Lemmings put it that way, there is no scenario where man efforts thinks he should think he gets off easily, even with the presidential pardon. He may not have thought this through adequately has again their art there's not a whole branch of law about how to play for, in expectation of a presidential pardon. But by that forty six million dollars that I'd love to talk about,
most of that is always already in process. There has only been in an objection to thirteen million dollars of the forty six, my forty six million that are being objected to and of those ten million. Probably is gonna lose so far three million dollars are in the works to going into the: U S: Treasury, to pay Bob Mahler Salary and the seventeen angry Democrats that that mother always likes to squawk about meaning that sorry trembling likes to walk about very tidy. So going back to the old Jerome Coursing is what are the pieces of all the chaos around courses and Roger Stone that are most worth paying attention to? I saw you tweet that your word that perhaps course he may have damaged a done damage to the stone the Potentials the most visible signs of the Mola prosecution period for the last most have a year since February have been his relentless steps towards what we
Who is going to be a writer stone indictment for lying to Congress about his communications to Wikileaks, past believe some role in a conspiracy with wiki leaks or the Russians and or the larger conspiracy possibly campaign finance violations. You know with Roger Stone skies limit right course ease lawyer, told course he now you know the here's. The problem is: is worse, sifting the truth through people like rather Stone Andrew, horsey, who we should assume are always lying, but course he has held out that his lawyer told him that mothers lawyers told them that his was a really critical part of the prosecution, and I really want to caution people about dismissing course. He has a whack job which he is, but I mean for one he's been a tremendously successful work.
Job damaging Democrats going back to John Kerry Right and before, but he has very successfully damaged every major democratic along the way. One of the things we we learned from his draft plea deal is that he reported back to stone on July. I'm gonna get the date wrung July. Twenty ninth, maybe saying you, should really push this. Hillary Clinton is sick angle, because there's gonna be some files coming out that two days later by his own or on on August, so that was August first August third, Roger stones on the phone with Trump by his own by his own claims and August seventh tromp actually starts- attack on Hilary by saying you know: she's got some screws loose in her head, so it that that may be possible that were were seeing how Jerome Course IE is feeding how he fed that line that got used distillery all through the campaign that she was having a stroke that she was to all that.
Feeble that blah blah blah and that may have been based on a belief about wikileaks that that might have come out and that didn't come out right. So not all the files, the course he thought we're gonna come out did come out, but but the other thing about it is that so they ve been working towards this indictment of stone forever course. He is a key player because stone for a long time has been saying credit, poesies, journalist source. We now know that it was course he and my back is that course see course is important for two reasons. One is because course he helped stone invent a cover story, starting according to corset. He testified that, even in August twenty six,
Teen Rodger called him up and said: hey. I need a cover for story for how I knew the John Podesta. You know his time on the barrel was going to be it'll it'll soon be his time in the barrel or there as he pretends. Now it was both Podesta's, and so they report that distracted from an attack that they that I strongly believe they knew at that point in August two thousand and sixteen was going to come out in October, two thousand and sixteen on attack on John Podesta. So they started the cover story. Then course he wrote that up publicly and March two thousand and seventeen when it became clear that Congress was going to ask him to testify. So that's one part of it is that Corsi and stone created a cover story for stone, and the government knows parts of this now,
gotten courses documents, but what we don't know yet because courses not telling is who told him in it, and I am. I strongly believe that there is solid evidence that course II. Stone got not just news that John Podesta's emails were coming out, but these specific content of them- and I think that's what's so damn thing is they knew that they were going to be able to return to this attack fidessa, so we don't know who he got it from, but my guess is: the story is pretty inflammatory and that's why he bought at the moment he was going how the grand jury, who told him about Podesta emails, and he claims that he kind of had a had a son. From God, as he was flying across the Atlantic, on a honeymoon anniversary. What we're getting at averse your trip to with his wife and that's now his current exe but not getting confirmation from courtesy that it's that that you know that he could be put on the stand to deliver a trial
about who that sources may damage the possibility of indicting stone may damage the degree to which, in that, the charges which smaller made be able to bring against down, and then the other thing about it is that, of course, he started doing this on the way, of the election and remember that when Trump Appoint did Matt Whittaker, his hatchet man to be attorney general to shut down the Miller investigation, he said it had to happen by and of day now? Is a period when course he was an act of discussions with Molars office and then all of a sudden course he kind of flips on a diamond says: I'm not cooperating anymore. So it's likely that whitakers presence is one of the reasons that course seed did refuse to cooperate after having dangled it and then and
and then he's now. You know creating an excuse for Whittaker to investigate Mahler by claiming that Genie RE told him, he didn't have to tell fin raw that he had accepted a pleading for lying. So I you know this oh and stuff is huge. I don't wanna meant I that the man afford stuff, I think when, when his sentencing memo comes out, we're gonna learn a ton more about what Miller knows about about metaphor, but I do cautioned people from from laughing too much about your own course, because it always bites people in the fanny when they do that, because he's tremendously skilled at what he does and he's gonna. He was working with a White house when he plodded thus- and you know, will see how badly he damage that the prosecution don't last question: what are you most interested in learn? over the next couple weeks. What's what's the biggest question you have about this? Investigate
I'm self censoring here come now. I think that we're gonna find some. I look, I think I said this earlier. I think that Trump backed out of an understanding with the Russians on on June fourteenth when it became clear that the day and see that the Russians attacked in. I strongly believe that later in the summer, there was some re engagement from Trump and I very much look forward to see what kind of evidence Mahler has of that if, in fact, em because that would mean that you know that would make that statement from Tromp which, by the way he showed up in the g you indictment. Remember: on July, twenty seventh was ass. A twenty sixteen Trump said Harry but your listening go. Find Hilary see that night GR use hackers
launched another wave of attacks on Hilary and her staffers and her personal led the the Clinton personal since as well, and so that comment from Trump may come off very very differently. I may exposed him too far different legal repercussions if he was in an understanding with the Russians at that point that you know they're. There was this big quid pro quo and he would get a Trump tower deal at the end. Now we know that from tower deal was real, so see what else Israel Woof gave way to find out Marcy. Thank you so much for joining us. We, we appreciate, you is always thanks. So much origin I was that was quite an interview I see Wheeler, there was so much easier than reading on the news this morning Anything else, any other thoughts you have on all this Russia, stuff, Mueller stuff, but we haven't covered, does seem like we are just like we're headed towards the end game here,
finally, yea dies and the pace of events is quickening. You know, I think there kept quiet, kept the closing of the election seen the election French him come. He could have thought about, light sit in the week since the election things are really very quickly. Mercy serve explained why that was so significant. To take away from this is one I have made this point before, but when you re, everything that's happening here. It is clear that we are dealing with criminals, but not criminal masterminds, because the just the amount of buffoonery from the president, his family urgency, the president, I think I'm at individual one, which is how we should refer to him, going for individual, tough day for individual one. I you tell everyone You are when you said the outline to me. You ve changed it efficiently for no collusion to Yo Collusion ass. I was pretty proud of that. I like the ability of bringing up on the popular the way that was just for
Just read me Michael, so I made things are moving quickly. You would want to be tromp leg. Per usual the inside. Kennedy. That was, as that has been trumps twitter account for the last few days. We now understand to be related to what has been happening for Jesse's after knots, weeding out Mahler for a long time. The panic is setting in there and it seems, like I mean it's, it's also crazy that he just cancelled a meeting with Putin right which, as you know, obvious, he would cancel a meeting with Putin after all this news, but it also goes to show that we have a foreign policy that is now being driven by you know when potential criminal charges come out. Against Donald Trump and his associates, which is not a great thing for the country. Now aid we should also now it is important that on the way to get on Marine one
Helicopter to fly to air Force One to leave on this trip where he is going to be with Britain all the way to helicopter. He told the press at the meeting was gonna happen. Yeah less than an hour later from Airforce why'd. He starts a twitter thread. They were, he explains it. No longer meeting with Putin, because the situation involving Putin and the Ukrainian Navy, and we no. That tromp did not do this way because it involves a thread because Europe is not how to throughout history, which is. Why is there so frustrating to read when we wake up at five thirty in the morning, wonder about the fate of our democracy on West Coast time yeah editors, doesnt work is a few more shoes to drop here, to say the least, so we're gonna be like out for these. Sing memo? That's Mahler provides to the judge about man afore it. Of course some of that could be under seal. So maybe it's not all public, but you know, as Marcy has been saying
Other people have been saying as well. It seems as though mowers report the famous report Russia that everyone thinks he's writing he could have been writing all along in these sentencing reports. In these other documents, public documents that are coming out about the different charges he's filing. So he could be just telling us the story Everything that happened through all of these charging documents. In order to avoid you know, unlike Matthew, would occur, burying all this stuff and it never become public. We should note that Matthew. There is still in charge of the Mahler investigation. Even though two weeks ago he said it despite obvious conflict of interest, he was gonna talk to the ethics folks in its form adjusted determine whether he needed to reduce himself. That meeting would take a parcel thirty five minutes and two weeks later, we know nothing and just Hartman is refusing to comment on whether the meeting happened, what happened in it or what Whitaker is doing and Whitaker four hundred and forty two presence
the helm of the rush investigation seems pretty related to all the events of this week. You will mean fortunately and seem to be stopping Mahler, that's long! Mahler down the question will be and whether we mean I believe, if Whittaker sorry she would have to sign off on an indictment of stone and indictment. Of course, where the person who I think should be most nervous after the Kohen plea today- is Don Junior gone Junior, who, as Marcy points out almost certainly lied to Congress about the very things that code testified to under oath today, right in and the one other thing we know is that there are. There are also multiple sealed indictments that have already been filed that by by Mahler, so Who knows who knows where thereabout plots in Amerika Roger by Robin Hood,
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Democrats voted no on her nomination, which means She only has two hundred of the two hundred and eighteen votes she needs when the full house votes on January. Third, Dan Howdahs policy get those last eighteen votes, and what does it look like if she'd and I think this all depends on whether someone else's gonna run against her right, because right now. If you do not give her those votes than you, can you basically could make a republican speaker, so It is basically vote for Nancy Policy or we're screwed That has been ultimately why she's been so successful in this. Is there is no, you can't beat something with nothing in the anti policy. People have no place to direct any opposition to it.
Suppose you, so you would have to believe she's gonna get this done. I think it's just going to be hard and unfortunately messy at a time when we don't really need messy national democratic side. Now we should say it for some reason: the vote failed on the floor. It's not that all of the sudden, like Kevin Mccarthy, becomes speaker it Jesse. Like there's, not two hundred and eighteen votes for anyone and it's like really embarrassing and they all have to go back and vote again. I guess that's that's. What would the process would be right? Yes, but that's my understanding. What are your thoughts, because we have you- and I haven't- talked about this yet what? What are your thoughts on the state of the opposition here and what they were? The strategy was of the anti policy forces. I think it's very generous of you to use the term strategy to describe what they're doing so I look. I think I we have now United Africa Nancy policy. An ominous this and my take on the whole thing is that I am very sympathetic, to the idea that we need leadership and the Democrats
Party in the house in the Senate Dnc that a rigorous everywhere else that highlight The diversity of the party that higher it highlights the next generation of the party that the neck of the generation who just want us, the House Rand? Having said that, Nancy Policy is one of the. If not the greatest legislative leader of modern american politics adds a day. It is believed by Republicans and Democrats to be incredibly getting a job and we need someone using really good at her job and it is pretty telling there are two elements: are gonna give up the game here who one is the hour men against Nancy Policy is that she is politically toxic. That is basically the subjects, everything now. That is a terrible argument to make what Democrats have just one the house, with the largest popular vote margin in history in two, If the argument is, we need new late, we know we need a next generation of leadership. We need to highlight the younger faces. The furniture agree with. Why is no
talking about standing here, you're right, like the way in which it would make. The most sense is for Nancy closely be insulted transition period and you elevate a younger democratic, fresher, Faye someone who is more future oriented the party to the number to spot so that they can get the experience in this sure they need for when they take over and then the third thing is. We know there is a progressive critique and anti policy from outside of Congress, but the opposition with in Congress is coming from her right, not from our right, and their argument seems mainly to be the Republicans likely TAT attack Nancy policy. Therefore, we should have a different leader, which is, I think, in my view, very a terrible reason you decide who the leader of the democratic debate so one of the ways, the policy one over eight centrist democrats in the by partisan problem solvers carcass. Was by agreeing to some of the proposed changes to house rules. The mode notable being that's the new
rules, will make it easier for any bill with at least to hunt ninety co sponsors to get a vote on the floor. Do you think that any of these changes will hamstring Democrats and policy? should become speaker or are they mostly minor changes designed to sort of just shut up the problem solvers carcass this is mostly optics we're not solving problems. They should probably change their name to like the optic sovereign, its or something like this, pisses me off a lot because you have of centrist democrats, who waited until Democrats were in the majority to take concrete steps to empower the minority like what the point is that in the other thing is another point about this is that these changes are not binding. This will have naive. Nimrod thinks they speaker Kevin
coffee two years or for years down. The line is going to keep their good government process oriented changes in place. Would there in charge just to help Democrats bring bills so the floor? They ve been sleeping in the last thirty five years of american politics and the with this is, is the problem with centralism generally, which is centres and without an ideology, it's an identity and theirs. We trying to show some group of voters that they are different and Democrats by scoring points against Nancy Policy, which I think is pretty bad form and not productive to the larger cause of Democrats. Using this one lever power, we have to try to advance progressive goals and put a check on tromp, so I'm annoyed at these people. I yet because it centres and based on this notion that there is there exists, a healthy republican party that is sort of the equal and opposite party of the Democratic Party, and that has not been true
play very, very, very, very long time, but you know they are. It's been very clear even since way before Trump became president, that the Republican Party has become a cult, since we got off the edge, and so you know, if you want to compromise on a specific piece of legislation where you don't give up your principles, and you just give a little to the other side. Like that's one thing, this is like it like. You said it based on optics? It's like you can tell that it was hatched in some Fuckin consultants office so that they can all run adds into your head mark tat. Second, sorry, can run ads in two years, be like I'm in the by partisan problem. Solvers caucus, and I made sure the Congress work that the housework better by forcing new rules and allow blah and it like it, doesn't mean shit on all it does is try to you know it's like you said it could it's trying to hamstring Democrats at a time when the Democrats have the power for the first time in two years and not total power, either power in one house of Congress,
it's pretty crazy. Speaking of not learning lessons, in addition, congressional leadership Braces Washington is also bracing for potential government shut down, which Trump saying he'll do. If Congress doesn't fund his Wall Senate minority later Chuck humor. Has countered by proposing a deal that he negotiated with Republicans a few months ago for one points, billion dollars in fencing for the border the government could shut down on December. Seventh, if there's no deal then what do you think about shimmers opening bid here, where you think his strategy you now do things are not going off for checks. Humor is when I look on twitter. The words shimmer is trending and it's not Emmi. It's like the entire internet, just dumping on trucks humor for making a pretty significant tax a mistake which most miss read, these sincere We have the Republicans and the political moment we are currently living in where Democrats,
one. The house, by a huge margin, Donald Trump, is at the his all time, low and approval ratings, and even in the Senate, where we lost seats, we did much better than one could have expected, give the worst Senate Map and modern political and so to begin this new political error of divided government to begin with the deal that we put on the able in an era when we had no levers of power, is just a real mistake, I mean look at I understand that the original dumping on Schumann, on Twitter was based on from CNN reporter. That was off wrong because it said it Dena Shimmer had proposed. One point: six billion dollars for a wall and
in reality. You know it was fencing and it was an old deal that he negotiated so fine. But even when you correct that, my question is, you know wide shimmer feel the need to point to some by partisan deal that offered a billion and a half plus dollars for fencing, which we know we don't need at the border, because the border is more militarized and has more fencing and more security than at any time. I'm in history. Why do you start by pointing out that deal to show how reasonable you are these of E Donald Trump? When you could just sit there and say here's our position, we want to fund the government with a clean, continuing resolution for the next couple months occur,
see. That's our position fund, the government of current levels, when the new Congress is seated in January, Donald Trump wants to negotiate about immigration. He wants to talk about how to protect all the dreamers in this country from deportation. Then you know, let's talk, let's have a conversation about that, but right now, position is clean funding, clean cr. We want to fund the government and the president doesn't want to fund the government unless we give him his wall. He can very politely fuck off that that that it is pretty damn reasonable. Yes, it is exactly right and we we know this from being involved in multiple budget battles with house Republicans is, a clean cr, whereas you are simply sooner. Can people we're gonna, keep funding the government at the same level. We are funding it at before. First period of time is almost impossible argument to defeat right, be as it seems it is quite reasonable and is even more reasonable when it happens after an election, and so we
in call this use a term that Mitch Mcconnell might like called the garland standard where they met with America People have spoken and they have chosen a new government, and so we should allow. The newly elected democratic house and I'll throw them this bone. The newly expanded republican majority in the Senate to sit down at the table and negotiate a new deal for a newer right like it seems that simple, Nancy policy was passed when she heard this, because this is a deal that drug between shimmer Trump and Paul, Ryan and net? Suppose he wasn't it, able so ordeal those negotiate among those. Three Nancy policy should have great sadness, yeah, I just everywhere. What do you think happened here like? Do you think We can obviously there's a lot of criticism of humor here. Like do you think it was just a slip up. Do you think he has funds, Until we miss read their political moment, you know on what scale of How much should we be worried about this going forward?
I don't know I think, let's see what comes next before we burn him and effigy on the capital line, because this heat. This is one statement, one press conference, let's see where we go from here, and if we revert to a stronger negotiating position, we'll say, but it was it was. It was alarming, but I'm not gonna panic about it just yet he's also shimmers. Also dealing like. I know this we're having worked in Senate leader from my life, this is a politically challenging time because you ve, he has a lot of members are on their way out the door who are packed, above us, is saying goodbye to staff and are going to have to cast their vote and so he is managing a particularly complex carcass. That is fraught with emotion. I don't know that is what led to this, but that this is different than any normal period. Time. He as all these centres, who lost who he is going to have to try to hold to ask him difficult. Things are even the way vacations
trips, homer job interviews or all the other things. If you want to do after you know, losing elections is traumatic and so Maybe some of the subjects here. There are things that these worth acknowledging yeah and I think I mean in he responds to outcry pressure. So everyone should just keeper You know how that is free to the fire on this one. But look I think if humor does learners then he will realise that Democrats are in an incredibly strong negotiating position right now, like if Trump decides to shut down the government, because he didn't get his wall after losing election as badly as he did after no how popular the walls, which is not popular at all. You can look up any pulling on less how many months it's like thirty, two percent then, like obviously Donald Trump, gets blamed for the shut down. This one is even close. This is perhaps the easiest call in shut down history. The Donald Trump is responsible for the government shut down in a government that he controls all in a Republicans. Control
of Washington and there's one party that says we just want to fund the government as is and there's another party as you know, the only way. Than the government. Open is. If you build a five billion dollar wall that nobody wants. I mean this is just this is so easy now. I think the important point here in this our lessons. We learned the hard way working for Obama, which is Republicans, do not respond to reason they respond to brood, political force and shows of strength, and so, if you start out by trying to show yourself is reasonable, Republicans just take what you the table and move the new baseline for negotiations to be the associations that between zero and five billion, it's now between one point, six billion in fighting. Right, and so this is even about setting ourselves up to cast blame on someone for a shut out. We would prefer not to be shut down. It is messy, is given the way, the things we want to do with the best way to avoid it is to be united, and strong in tough and see
like you're, not afraid of a shot down at the outset. You get nothing. That is the message now, let's you some godfathers leaders, Don Corleone negotiating at her people. Pot emerge. Is brought you buy framed bridge if you're listener of the show you ve hurt us talk about frame. Bridge framework makes it ridiculously easing affordable to custom frame, your favorite things from art, prince and posters. The photos on your phone that is true now at the holidays, fast approaching frame bridge is the easiest way to send truly one of a kind gifts. Everyone on your list has orca here's how you just gotta framework, dot com and upload your photo or they'll. Send you packaging to safely mail in your physical peace. Only spontaneous preview, your item online in any frame, sail to your favorite or get free recommendations from their talented designers. I would choose that option. The expert team at framework will customs, bring your item and deliver your finnish peace straight to you or every need it. I think I want to do this.
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Oh god, I want to talk about Democrats, economic message. We had a little preview this week of how it might sound and twenty twenty after the announcement that General motors will be closing factories and cutting more than fourteen thousand jobs in North America, including factories in Ohio in Michigan Trump responded by lashing out the company and threatening to cut their subsidies. All of this comes, as economists are starting to forecast the economy may slow down next year and possibly may fall into recession, and twenty twenty CNBC says at the economist point to a number of factors for the slower growth, but topping the list of scare factors for markets are fed interest.
Hikes, as well as the impact of tariffs and trade wars, should they continue Dan, let's start with GM here's Donald Trump in Michigan in October of twenty. Sixteen quote: if I'm elected, you won't lose one plant you'll have plants coming into this country. You won't lose one plant. I promise you. I promise you now. Gm is saying that trumps tariffs costs them hundreds of millions of dollars. Ford says the terrors of cost them a billion dollars the problem? Is this GM news for Trump its potentially a giant problem because as senator shared Brown of Ohio, pointed out on Twitter yesterday, when the news came, This is a direct result of a provision within the tax bill that the Republicans pass in Trump signed that This is mind boggling to believe, but truly did give tax incentives to come he's like GM to ship jobs overseas and
that, like you- and I laughed about this when that happened in the sense that has been the highest testing line in every pore we ve ever seen ever in the last seventeen years of democratic politics and every democratic politician says it ad nauseam, and yet we only want to small handful of those elections by with each the difference here is you can adding this is so important to understanding economic, the impact of economic messaging within a political campaign context is what it is when it is called unquote, macro economics it often dismissed as two parties going back and forth. It is just ideology when it be specific, localised someone's community or their industry and their livelihood. Then it can make and so now you have this example in a state tromp. One hundred percent needs to work. To win the White House where you have these plants being shut down, very specifically because of a decision, the Donald Trump in their problems in Congress make, and so that will
the battle ground in two thousand and and we know the impact this because Obama Wine, Ohio in two thousand and twelve in large part, because he could make the argument. He saved the auto industry and save thousands upon thousands of jobs, not just from the specific gnp, but also all the people who make the auto part which is our all I've done, Midwest particular in Ohio? So like did this? Can a big deal if it is messaged correctly yet- and I think that you know- shared Brown has been doing a great job of adamant he's been talking about. Basically, that's the Trump Republican Tax bill gave a fifty percent coupon to companies that send jobs overseas. So no one should be surprised that Jim is moving their point to Mexico. We also said to any companies lay off workers to impress Wall Street and boost start prices and raise ceo pay
he's introduce legislation in August that would give customers thirty five hundred dollar discount on cars made in America and also seeks to stop tax cuts on overseas profits from automakers that move jobs overseas again, a propos All that you know, Obama had a version of this proposal. Every Democrat that's run in the last. You know. Ten fifteen twenty years has had some kind of version of this proposal to change tax incentives and tax structures in this country, so that there is no incentive for outsourcing and shipping. Profit overseas, and that there is all the incentive in and a to keep jobs here in Amerika which, by the way, doesn't solve all the problems of global asian technology and outsourcing, but we're talking about what the government can do to try to and sent companies to do the right thing and create jobs here in Amerika. Now for what I wonder about as we talk about how we ve Is this forever undemocratic, tight by talked about this river and yet
it doesn't seem like we ever get. It passed right, some kind of tax bill or tax reform or tax structure that actually stopped companies from shipping jobs overseas to stop giving stops, giving tax breaks to companies that ships jobs overseas and starts gifts, the companies that create jobs in Amerika. We almost laugh about it because we say the line so much, but didn't part of the problem as Democrats need to come up with policy and then actually passed policy. That has an effect on out sourcing in factories, leaving you I mean the hard part. Yet. Yes, need to do that. Yes, we should do that, even if there were no politics, no lectures. Nepal, as that is the right thing to do the hard part to be brutally about this- is it ends up a counterfactual argument. Even if we have that success because of what the larger trends in the economy are around globalization, automation, which is, you are still the tide of something that is moving in many key is irrevocably in one direction, and so we want there always be here. This is
Europe is suffering from right now, which is no matter what you say or what you do there will all The examples of businesses that make decisions to move jobs, oversees right and we have really figured out the right economic policies to mitigate the damage that they does to families and communities, but also create a new economic model that creates quality high, paying jobs in a row with globalization. Automate issue so did like. I think big question in the twenty twenty polar discussion will be what policy people put forward that address that it's all theoretical to get office, then you're gonna have to actually do things. Oh yeah. I think I think we need. We need policy. We need to have this conversation and we, to be able to have it in a way that is feels real and tangible to people and is not just seem. We know complicated white paper stuff or problem, or you know, sort of peace
Yo incremental policies, the nimble around the edges of this problem, right, like I think, one of the reasons were going to see a lot of Democrats through a running and twenty twenty propose bolder, more progressive policies. Economic policies is because not because everyone was just like moved to the left but because sort of the magnitude of the moment where in calls for those kind of policies, and that, like you, know a few tax breaks here and there to serve and sent in companies to do the right thing might work on the margins, but there's something more fundamentally broken with the economy here that we need to fix and that's why you see people talking about a federal jobs, guarantee. That's why you see people about a green new deal. Fifteen dollar minimum wage debt free college right like it seems like we have reached the edge of trying to make. You know trying to work with companies to make sure they do the right thing and sort of incentivize them to do the right thing and we have to go bigger and the only option there is, for
remit to really step in and take bold action. The eight so interesting to have this conversation, because if just separate the words you just said from what is it just like put it? can someone listen to what they will come back and think that it would be if they were to look up at the economic stats worth a time when you said that sentence that it would it be you know like two thousand and nine should like making economy you now hyaena. I meant that our supper living in a world of veto near full employment, the let me is growing not as fast as we would like it to, but it is growing and you know the stock markets while their these basic economic indicators that seem fine in that is, Actually, the part that is so goddamn alarming, which is all these things have been happening, that you would. I hope and believe what effect that would they would affect wages, ineffectual, squatty flies, effective economic, personal, economic security,
but they're not, and if you are struggling at five percent unemployment being aware, is the american family gonna be in you know it? Inevitably the economy is going to get worse than it currently is like that is just the natural move of things- and so It says a lot that what people think we need- and I agree, There are a huge, bald solutions because Jesse fixing what was broken with the economy doesn't actually fix was broken when the economy well- and we saw this- and we talked about this all the time when the financial crisis hit- and you know, Obama would say often like people were struggling before the crisis right and families and people in this country who were right on the edge and who were in a struggling tat like have a middle class lifestyle right before the crisis hit as soon as it has a lot of those people felon poverty, because even in an economy now with a full unemployment, the real problem is, you know, see any chart of economic growth. You know
you, see wages, just flat, lining and as wages, a fly line or or only wages have grown a little bit. You see you know the costs of health air skyrocketing, the cost of college and Education- scary, all kinds of gas prices everywhere, so people are having trouble keeping up even at of almost employment economy because they just make enough money, and so that you know Democrats have to address that, because the way Republican Party has addressed that is two fold the raw ion Paul Ryan Wing of the party has said I will just give more tax cuts and the tax cuts will make everything wonderful again, which almost no one in the country believes. Now it's like. Maybe the one thing that must be the country are united about and then now the Trump wing of the party, which is now most of the party, is saying no to know the way to fix the economy is to get one
while the immigrants who are taking our jobs and to close all the borders and to slap tariffs on everything and that's the way will get back to economic success. So that's trumps argument and I think in twenty twenty we have to take on that argument directly and say no throng and that hasn't lead to greater economic success for more people in this country. Hears are plan and its big in its bold and it's a lot different. You are a hundred percent right, that we need a plan needs to be a good plan. We should debate that play within the party that we should debate that plan across in front of the country in the general actions, two thousand, but we have a very specific project that we need to get done, which is related, but not entirely to what you just said. Which is entering a run brown seen one of the smartest politically annals out there, who writes for the Atlantic and CNN, said this and what are the other day in response to Senator Browns, tweets about the tax bill and GM etc.
Is it the Holy GRAIL for Democrats is disqualified, Trump with were white working class voters in the Midwest, particularly on the economy, and that is our project. That is what we have to do, that that would be project a number one for my well funded measures were back, which is we to convince a certain number of voters in rest belt states that tromp is full of shit when he says he's a populist and will fight for you. If you do that, the next president the democratic, and it is that simple and I actually don't think we should wait till you say twenty twenty thousand election, as you not surprise us learn, I financing projects should be started now there they should be started now and remember the margins by which trump on those states given every bit white working class motor, the Midwest, the trumpets full share. It seems very challenging convincing a few percent.
Them in those states. That seems very doable with some brains, a little bit of money and plenty of ammunition from trumps corporatist policies. And and- and I can imagine people's eyes or rolling you know hearing. Oh, we must must focus on the white working class. Now it's not that it is a. We re eyes them like. Ninety percent of these voters are going to be convinced or eighty percent whatever it may be, but we I've already seen between two thousand and sixteen and two thousand and eighteen that there were people who voted for Trump, who supported Trump, who switched over and started, The Democrats and a lot of the reason they did is because they start they. They realize the trumps promises were full of shit, and I talk to these people in Michigan for the wilderness like that they exist they're out there. They fallen out of love or Donald Trump. They dont think he kept his promises and they are willing to give Democrats another look, it is real and win or this close and there on the margin. Then it really makes a difference
and more importantly, I dont think that proposing big, bold economic policies that might help some of these voters is in conflict with. You know, proposing big, bold economic policies that will help the people. For Democrats, it'll help working class, Latinos and Working Class, African Americans and young people who are struggling with college debt write like is one message- one economic message in one set of economic policies that can appeal to a broad range of voters in this country, and that seems to be the best path back towards power for Democrats. Yes, it is only cynical political reporters who think that the term working class refers to white men in Ohio right The working class in America is diverse, add that is who our agendas it speak too. I am specifically speaking about a project to take votes away from Trump and give them the Democrats in that specifically means dealing with these.
The voters who are soft on tromp are fresh whereby the economy and or voted for Brok of Alma two thousand and twelve, and that is your universal people- that you have to communicate with relentlessly over the next two years and it is about folding, was constant, Michigan and Pennsylvania back into the democratic column in twenty twenty, which, if we do it makes it almost impossible for trumped up when the elections are right. Where we covered a lot today resides about crimes we got into GM and the economy. We got a little plus in sugar and there it was. It was a journey really the thing that tied it altogether was individual one. Individual one, it's a tough day, tough day for individuals, everyone have a good weekend and will I will talk to next week by everyone.
Transcript generated on 2020-04-01.