Everybody has that one Facebook friend who just won't stop posting their political opinions. This week, we talk to one of those Facebook friends, someone whose opinions got her into an enormous mess.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This episode is brought to you by better for him a new podcast from eighty people. In each episode Francesca Ramsay talks to visionaries in business leaders about mistakes. They ve made how they work their way through them and came out better for it. Listen on Spotify.
Wherever you get. Your pot casts.
Goodnight does it require I'm he gave up so one way,
we're friends. The sky gonna call Dave.
HU. I haven't seen in maybe fifteen years I didn't last sideways each other. It was the nineties and we were in a puncture. I haven't
Jim since then, but every single day I watch him argue about politics with his facebook friends.
Trump, the troops gun control- repeat nobody,
change their mind. I watch it. I feel
physically, tired, I billion
somebody else's awkward, family dinner, but one
Dave recently because my newest,
My friend, Lucy TAT is all
somebody who gets into a lot of political arguments on Facebook and recently that became kind of a problem for this year.
This is a story about the weirdest summer of Lucy s life. I touch her about it on Skype,
So am I have a million questions. I guess the first thing is just like before any of this
bend like before everything like I'm. If it's ok, let's go
Did you see your facebook page yeah,
May I have a lot of stuff. That's my document.
I have another one. She still looks like a puppy all the time she may a quick to ever page you some lots of.
Aid means from nine gag patient
her grandson and some Facebook came?
for while she got real, indefinable
She said she would end up running virtual farms alongside strangers in the Middle EAST, but then it went crazy. There was that there were people who get up
with their alarm set or three o clock in the morning, because if they didn't leave their crops, that crops will, but I hope we can. It was like you hang up. The full of people was crazy about. I wanna be more judgmental down
but I play this game. It s called simpsons tapped out which, just if the same game just like Farmville but the citizens and all sometimes like pretend
Go the bathroom because any attack on my crops,
he means here. Worship is the first, I'm learning about his neck, profoundly disgusted voice one,
to reply ass near producer, TIM Howard, that's crazy
Lucy lives in the suburbs outsider Guatemala City in Rio,
if she runs this real estate business with her husband and when she's
doing that or telling crops in Farmville shows too
This facebook group called politically incorrect choice to argue with people there about genetically modified foods or taxes. It's a good place just go spar, even though the people there can be sort of quick to name call allow people they were country are your company than other people. Are you are from their or direction?
and I have to say that far right, I write those are the opposite. Come you know what you're talking about people that took about tat middle idea, then you must be from the far right tang. Vice versa,
do people fight over the same things, time and time again or is it whatever is in the news that day? Usually it's about what I read in the news in the usual, it's about the same thing that enough you know, but in what am I we had,
were for thirty years. Guatemala had a civil war that lasted for thirty six years, hundreds of them
and have gone, were killed by the government and this war
ended pretty recently like ninety. Ninety six recently
there hasn't been a real, thorough truth and reconciliation and many people know
Regis are not interested in talking about what happened. The lot of people just don't want to talk about it; they don't want to know about it. They don't want to hear about, and I think that's really twisted, because we need to talk about it and we need to understand what happened
and move forward when Lucille argues politics on Facebook? These are the people
take she's, arguing and talking about those kinds of
things in public can still get
in trouble. I first heard about
all the trouble that Lucy I got into from
I've already Louis Travis,
He reported about Lucy for Radio on Volante and the story starts with this big
candle in Guatemala
What does the less him on a bizarre yellow? Your name is, he has shown in April of this year a corrupt
the scandal broke out, and it was basically
called LE, which translates as the line it was a corrupt,
scheme that involved customs officials that were asking for bribes in exchange
for not collecting import taxes
and over twenty government officials were originally indicted and the highest in the chain of command of these government officials was the personal secretary of Vice president, Roxana by lady.
Roxana, but that is a former beauty. Queen turned concerted, cable news. Correspondent turn politician who says that guatemalans are used to corruption, but body is
all other level. I, what
in a Watermark newspaper reported that she and her husband had thirteen million dollars in assets, data, private helicopter and five properties, which was
any multiple more what a polish salary should have been able to afford in response that rapporteur was banned by the courts from being near the vice president
anything that really drove to see a crazy about rocks. Annabel daddy, wasn't the corruption,
it was at whenever she called out in public about it. She would tell these lie:
and the lies didn't even make, sounds like a one way,
She was accused of looting and environmental fund nominal old, and she said I shall wear listen. I swear. I didn't steal one read coming from what the mother and I swear on my mother's life
so she said she was really say like if, if I'm right,
my mother died and she didn't think anyone would check yeah exactly I swear at mother's life.
Then, so the lobbying scandal happens and
nope. You are used to bad behaviour from body. This scandal feels worse and
but group politically incorrect,
their people herself up that they say that they might just void there,
in the next election as a protest
which you lose. Your things is pointless, so she gets on items
and tell me what she thinks they ought to do she
immediately gone on her facebook page and studied ranting and say
dad. You know she called for for the country to you, know, go and protest in from the government palace. Can you read me? The post war can get one require urgent, yeah
maybe that's your Maria back at the most scandalous. Besides, we consume built them nor manuscripts Imbecilities kimono, for
She had a translator note in real time for me and she ever shot. If ever, what am I needed that everyone go out to the streets for their return of the millions that they have stolen? It is now a road that, like I was you
without up up up up up up up up up up up up up up, so Lucy gives her poster Yoda. Like name
the along lines of protest to get Vice
president, Roxana Daddy
to resign. It was like the worst name ever say it was like the most boring terrible name ever for a demonstration you have. You ever tried to doing this poorly. Have you ever like traded stage, a protest course March
No way, nothing, nothing!
Lucy at that she achieving that somebody who actually knew how to do these sorts of things would see her facebook posts and they caught with a real plan for a real protest, which is not what happened. A newspaper picked up this.
Book event and ran it and suddenly she has in within forty eight hours. She has. Hundreds of people are just confirming that
we'll be assisting the event
and this is where Lucy S starts, get pretty worried in Guatemala. It can be very dangerous to protest against the government in TWAIN.
Twelve demonstrators gathered on the highway to protest. High energy prices, seven
people were shot and killed. Many more were wounded
It seems almost certain that the military who is at the protest fired on the crowds
The present claimed that the soldiers weren't carrying guns
the protesters he suggested, probably fire
themselves. There was a statement,
that incident happened in a rural area and Lucy and knows that the government-
to be more violent towards rural indigenous people than city people.
But on the other hand, she
demanding the vice presidents resignation, so she scared
if you find yourself just refreshing the facebook page over and over,
watching as more and more people share it and realising that this thing has taken on a life of its own. That week it was thousands of people who are confirmed
in that they would go to this demonstration. You know- and it's not like it's like fifteen thousand twenty thousand and
bigger it gets the scarier it gets for her as well. We all remember,
well, then said Mama. I think I woke something
that's uses watch differently than she said. Okay, so maybe you should get together with.
Some help. So she looks for help and when she
is she recruits the son of a friend of hers right that the heat she knows,
Since this guy was born, disguised called Gabriel and the first thing
Gabriela, those who say we have to get rid of that demonstration to
except our daddy three scientist, not gonna cut.
So he comes up with
stag, and he goes up with a hassle.
That is God they lose.
Ranuzia in English resigned now or if you prefer quit already quit already. Yeah he's just like this
catch on trust me. Gabrielle Lucy form a small team to turn Ranuzia into something more organised: the teams, half Lucy S, friends, half Gabrielle friends, two generations working the other
which we see as adult strange, because these
it didn't remember, Guatemala's brutal civil war,
the long dark period that people don't talk about much but that Lucille how to confront from literally the moment she was born. My mother always tell the story is that when I was born that it was near might when her letter broke, so she had
a doktor and doktor. Had me a range means with the government for some army cars come into our housing accompanying my mother, my father to hospital, because otherwise, if they would see you outside of your, how silly thing should you are? My god knows no question says just that's the. What am I was born in?
into that past Guatemala, as a way of popping up in the present, for instance them
General Rios Montt was tried for genocide and twenty thirteen.
For genocide in twenty thirteen and during
its trials, something unexpected happened. A former soldier
testifying that he and his troops had been ordered to burn down the villages of indigenous people to cut off their tongues.
While their fingernails and later execute them, and the soldier said the order
had come from his commander. A man
since the war has become very famous in Guatemala,
the commanders name is Otto Press, Molina Bodies, boss
president of Guatemala, press
denied the accusations, as he said
Similar accusations, war crimes, but understandably a lot of people fear
and this year has now written Facebook post trading,
ready to go stand outside this man's office, the presidential palace,
search screaming at the two of them Lucy retroactively tried to make her face but presents anonymous. She took a pro
picture down. She changed her name but useful.
Read about the safety of a kids were helping her. They don't know how dangerous it can be. So we sat down when we talk about them and said: ok, this can be dangerous. What it was like the worst case scenario, if you personally active to have your head blown Anthony street in them appear next day at the newspapers.
One of the big himself plans is something that Europe imaginings
That feel like a real thing that could happen at the beginning, maybe not because I didn't expect more than fifty or let's say three hundred and fifty people
but when we reach levels of thousands of people that saying yes we're going to attempt at that time, I was really scared. Now was really worried not because of me
I'm fifty three years old them a grandmother, as you have seen, and my daughters are both grown. Ups.
And I'm not ready to die, but like death is not something that I will avoid at all. Costs like for me to more important for them to have a great country were my ran sons granddaughters. If I ever get, will grow up then my life, but I was afraid for the people. That was with me and because I was afraid for the lives of my dear ones. I believe that you
the good people die whenever they are supposed to die, and I am convinced about that. So I said if they're gonna kill me a boy either way. I was supposed to date that day, maybe my tabs, my bed, but I was supposed to Diana. I tell you, I'm crazy,
So you see, I have learned something she never known about herself that use reason,
I for the right cause
weren't, the younger people as well. She could, but now the facebook page it began.
Bubble with signs of this protest could still get very bloody bureau
some voices that are starting to get rowdy inside of the event pay some some some kids
Ellie who are like you know we gotta go in there with our model of cod.
Hills and rocks and our bats- and you know you gotta, make some noise and we have to bring the government down that kind of of rhetoric, the people,
calling for violence. They look like they had fake accounts
there are really knew and they didn't have a lot of friends except for each other Lucy
was pretty sure that that meant there were people in the government's propaganda wing which was
The government noticed the protests but that it was trying to push them.
Not only has a government noticed the protests but that it was trying to
push them towards violence, but
good lucy- I really do at this point. It should cancel the event pure would still show up, so she called
the people who are threatening violence. She told everybody in the group that these people are probably from the government to ignore them and then all she could
really do is wait.
Story, it all
daddy. It's like in lake cartoons. Characters like in a dark
and daylight a match, and then it is revealed that the room is cool,
dynamite. After the break Picea Philip match
and the vice president
This episode is brought to you by better for it a new podcast from eighty p hosted by Francesca Ramsay. We all make mistakes better food
It looks at how mistakes have shaped the lives and careers of visionaries and business leaders and helps them think differently about what their working for you'll hear from an entrepreneur who ventured out on his own, and so I went out. I took seven hundred dollars. I had in the bank, but my own pickup truck, took some flyers business cards and
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While we all care about work in the first place, you are proud of the work
Do you want to be able to tell your friends about you wanna, be able to feel like you're, making a difference, you'll hear how they work their way through their mistakes and came out better for listen on Spotify or wherever you get your PA? Ok, so April, twenty fifth day approach,
I do not regret was outside it wasn't my Saturday, the really nice,
the kind of Saturday you knew who choose to go to the new and enough. But how revealing scared to death?
she's onto their mom, the broader suspicion.
A place in the positive, a constitution, the main square.
And for the government palace its
Center all roads in Guatemala led out from this one square, Lucy, apart from
way in case the thing is packed and these people do show up and she starts walking in
your head, she's picturing everything that can go wrong, an empty sky
because nobody shows up a square that is full.
Of protesters, either being beaten by tops or protesters, are beating each other.
From far away. She starts to hear yelling people are
into the square. A small group
people stops at a nearby cafe trying to convince the patrons to come with them. Up close,
it's hard even see the scale of the thing
it is our friend lesser into a near by building and they go upstairs. We go up and I looked out the window and night. It was
like all you see, was hence then sign
The national palace. Is this concrete monolith? It's all tat,
Columns and high walls. The square in front of it is called
Wheatley covered in protestors.
Their waving guatemalan flags and their wearing its colours blue and white. It's hard to actually
Pick out any individuals it starts. It just looks like one enormous many limbed organism that speaks in shares and glaring errors tears. I do crime there in that moment with them. In my heart I wasn't motion and even though I may say the lot of things that don't sound like AL, she saw back at that moment.
He thought I'm going back on another
Listen, I wasn't a spectacular enlarge, it was diverts, is made up,
every kind of person
conservatives, liberals just people, they really did what they wanted to do, which was scatter people who were fed
with corruption Louis's. Everybody was united by their utter disgust with body
so much so that they even all seeing the national anthem and, of course,
this. You said that there are so many people that he couldn't actually get this ongoing in unison. It sounded like rapes. No, it was a cacophony
all this joyful singing crashing against itself. It was so moving and at that time we dig current Lucy
started to think about how Guatemala's scene in the world as violent, violent place ablaze whose people kill each other, and yet we were there.
In peace. It nothing she never experienced. She vanished,
really listening to the words the national anthem, hearing them freshly
There's a line about how Guatemala has once achieve peace without violence and that's impossible in
they stood outside the palace for hours, but
Annabel daddy was nowhere to be found Lucy it
even think she was in the palace that day.
While that he didn't sharp for two weeks and when she did, it was actually her boss,
President press milliner, who made the big announcement, the soda Conall said the other. They sit instead of easier compromise will cheer inside the euro, and that was most unexpected, very welcome, and how does it feel to watch that he's gonna? Think I'm crazy about which we already established a house. I was happy, but not surprised. It was their reasonable thing begun like. If you prepare a k, can you better than you put em, though, when you're not really
surprise when it comes out a cake. After an hour of being in the olden rates, I get free excited about cakes when the ready to eat
yeah yeah. It was a long time
for those who have found something that she could get really straightforwardly excited about school. Just you know like when they hear their wiretaps get wiretaps, attacking where the president is giving instruction that somebody else talking about him, but it was in sight,
talking. I'm givin insteps turns out the same team of investigators. You couple daddy, also had tapes of press
press Molina incriminating himself in the scandal that seem customs
general, that ensnared by daddy
there's an actual like recording, invest. You ve heard this recording people for this gang. Everyone
the protesters went nuts. The group was a. We got the vice president's resign. Now we need to get the president to miss Hale
and so a run protest wraps throughout all of one mind like wildfire,
every single weekend there are people outside waving signs demanding that their president resign, but there's a catch
presently. They just refuses to grant, and while the prosecutor
to build a strong case. He can't be arrested.
There's this rule in Guatemala
present is immune to criminal prosecution. So long as he's an office,
The only way you can rest of president if Congress votes
him of his immunity, which have
it is never ever happened. It's just an absurd pipe dream by everything about the summer's, absurd
the wave of protest that comes out of the sea as it doesn't stop. It gets bigger and the
best theatres dig deeper and the press doesn't back off and the pressure to spill
and build an August there,
general strike then,
New hashtag came a stag unit single penicillin thing, which means I don't have a president.
The entire country comes to a halt, and even Congress cannot ignore it. They take away
marinas immunity, the votes unanimous after that vote heat. It really has to resign
and that very same day he's in prison he's in a holding so as
Wade's trial in a day and sing.
It's crazy. It's crazy! I mean, like e, was present in the morning.
Crazy! It's crazy! I mean, like e, was present in the morning and he's in jail so by evening, but though I think it was one of the happiest days of my life,
Because, for the very first time in my life, finally, justice had been served to that ever seem possible. No uptore! Didn't that's why I was so.
Happy every single one of the Congress that work that they have the Congress and had made the decision voted. Yes, I want to cry like
spoke overwhelm. I'm excited I like it. So ninth Eddie I'm playing but am praying happened.
Louis says that concerning everything Lucy, did it really surprising
she hasn't you
from yeah as a springboard like say into a political career. A different person would be running for president right now.
If few its Lucy our different person, she would be a total
medical rockstar right now, but that's not what you wanted. That was point of it.
And what do you think it is like why it just I mean I feel, like a lot of people start out that way, and then you know you see things you can fix, but you do that
to make a deal with this person and, like you like politics, tens,
Crap very wound engine people like what what is it
the chief, I don't know inoculated herself. That's that's a good question and the sheep
I think she's always been very clear. I think he really really dreams of a better Guatemala.
Guatemala were to hospitals, work because pot
since our and stealing money where people are paying their fair share of taxes.
So idealistic at some point she told me that that she started putting out these
Syria hashtags, which was which were like quit
corruption and quit smoke,
in public sing quit running,
Red lights and legible: that's the one,
that's the kind of Guatemala. She was living Lucille,
so busy imagining her grand vision for Guatemala,
then she doesn't really worry about her role in it. Remember she took
her picture and her name from our Facebook profile which mean that
on the day of that big protest when she was in a crowd of thousands.
People who dissembled because of her note she was not really funny thing. Is that even
I had invited all my friends very few people knew that I had been the one person there, the event in Facebook. What about you like to have that secret? There is so much fun, in fact, with the greatest feeling of orphan, like I have seen, how did you not tell everybody? I thought it was a proper thing to do.
It was really thought it was nice to have a secret and guy, I think, he's. If I did, I tell the boy what did it was like seeking recognition and I didn't do it. For that reason I will
Never did it with that region to the obvious nice question for both Lucy in Guatemala is the same now what it's hard to say, but
Lucy as optimistic everything,
seem so possible. Now she gave me a quick up
on, what's happened since the protest presently
is under house arrest. Body has been rested too was here,
not crazy about the new president,
she's been paying more attention to the judicial system and she says she likes. The judge is presiding over the presently. The trial.
And ass for her. She says you might want to teach a class on ethics now she wants,
some time other kids and she told
Now this old saying I don't love, you heard this, but they say that you have to have a child plant, the tree and writer
So maybe I will write a book. Have you planted a tree yeah
That's what this whole story was be J. Where were you? This is a thought. It was a little tree now, it's better way better than that. Nobody did planted trade real three and not one, but men. Sometimes I don't know what to do with them.
Ah monsieur, has Facebook page these days the cover image as a new hashtag in big boy,
wait letters over a picture of everybody gathered in the square. It says
still upon us and Piazza decision
If you like to hear radio and anti spanish language version the story, you should check him out their radio, humble anti dot, org
to in the podcast.
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Transcript generated on 2020-02-13.