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from the centre for investigative reporting and p r eggs this is reveal analysis. Twin news. First broke. The president trumped talk to the new ukrainian president about investigating Joe Biden Trump unsurprisingly, took to his favorite medium twitter, fire back, controversy, tweeting quote now that the Democrats in the fake news media have gone Boston, every other of their witch hunt schemes. They are trying to start one just as ridiculous as the others calling it the Ukraine, which hunt while at the same time, I'm trying to protect a sleepy, Joe Biden will fail again. We ve seen this play out before trump attacks: the media spewing, fake news of claiming alternative fats which can drown out negative news coverage, but attacking the media, isn't people, wait, Trump uses social media says first, lodging. His presidential campaign Trump has fired off countless tweet storms thereof,

so outrageous, become the leading Lou story. Think about the height of the sum drop tweeted that for Congress, women of color, known collectively as a squad, should go back to where they came, between Sunday. They should go back and how they are totally crime, infested places from which they can you're so later Trump called the city of Baltimore, quote disgusting, in road invested. Miss tromp remains unapologetic about those tweet peer at reveal. We held a big staff meeting to talk about how the media was covering Trump, and many of us agree myself included that he's tweets about the Congress. The men were races. We also talked about how the media pivots away from other big stories when Trump fires up is twitter feed. My colleague Will Carla's has been taking a look at the stories that had been buried in largely forgotten, enjoys me now they were pale. So, let's go back to July. When present

drug tweeted about the squad in Baltimore. What else was going on in the news? It was pretty disastrous week for the Tramp administration. I may, for example, you had big Paul coming out saying that tromp was trail. His democratic rivals. You had Trump labour secretary haven't a step down after it was revealed that he was the Heavens. Involved in creating a plea deal for sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. It was the same week. You remember that disastrous visit by the vice president appended to the detention facility and tat. This weighs kind of touring it especially a photo open. It was just a disaster I'm so does all this like negative, embarrassing stuff happening at the same time, but be you both know what we're talking about right the latest tweets, so you back and looked over the president's twitter feed. What did you find right? Well again,

again and again we see the same pattern play out the sum Nick ever embarrassing new story that starts to break and immediately get hidden by just an offensive or an outrageous tweet that the presidency and then the media endlessly discusses so back to the tweets about the squad during that time was a one. To that really got overshadowed. So this is really the best example that we found a story that should have gotten a lot more attention than it did the president had just vetoed by How does that bills that would have limited the sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia to be used in the I'm bore in Yemen. It's a lot more of a complicated the way to follow them. What trump is stirring up on his twitter feed, but it's a really important story: Yad Daphne is in and now some weeks, Yemen has gotten a lot more attention. That's after minority group tackled the who thieves took credit for bombing sow saudi oil fields, which knocked out half the kingdoms, oil output, numb and people

worried about whether that gas prices in the? U S, gonna go up but you're back in July. This for it was not getting a lot attraction right. So now we're gonna dedicate some time to it. Will you ve been spending the last couple weeks digging into the story? What have you found? What I've been intervening folks had been following this all along and one of these peoples unless called Rwanda, sheaf who's been to Yemen several times to cover the conflict and she lived there for a while. It's almost like screaming into the boy it, and that was what it was like reporting on Yemen and working on these asteroids. One is now based in London and she leads the coverage at Balin and online investigative side, she's really good at breaking down the conflict and how its changed. What the conflict is now as incredibly different to what it was four to five years ago. Different allies there. The shift in allegiance is all of that has drastically changed over the course of the conflict, but it is

ways, incredibly good to start right at the beginning in order to understand how polarized this kind What is there in two thousand and eleven protesters across country Newman called for the outsourcing of I have to solve and a president for thirty three is they did so successfully and bite you doesn't and twelve he signed off to his deputy howdy. Who is now the President of Yemen to take his place now, one would have assumed that this transition would have been peaceful? However, it was anything but thought so there was during the arab spring when the next big development was that there was a huge rift between haughty, new president, who is backed by Saudi Arabia and the who thieves who have support from IRAN, these are fighting for religious minority group, pervasive being discriminated against, hope that rifts

in the who, these in the new present quickly kind of metastasized, into something much broader The change from a civil war to a conflict with a lot of influence from outside plans, especially given the attack on the oil facility and Saudi Arabia living. It becoming more and more a proxy will. It wasn't a proxy war when this fast all began. To get this point, the true Big players, Saudi Arabia, on one side backed by the: U S and the who these on the other side That is what makes the conflict in Yemen incredibly difficult to report on. All these miniscule changes Quite a lot of contacts, not background knowledge in order to understand their significance in the current moment. Just to understand correctly that the United States is mainly involve by supplying weapons in logistics. We don't have any troops on the ground or anything like that. Yeah, that's that's right.

And that's probably one of the reasons why this hasn't said have taken root so strongly as a story in America, but you know we are provide in the bombs that killing people since two thousand in the. U S has been supporting the Saudi led coalition with things like targeting assistance, and I listened to recently MID air refueling. You got companies like Raytheon and Lockheed Martin. That is supplying the bombs that a heading to the conflict everyone shave has actually seen evidence of that first hand So one of my main roles when I was in Yemen, was to document sites. Our air strikes at a cut to another country standard and out of If you one hundred and thirteen that I investigated about eighty of them pads a: U S, munition tight,

and that alone always gives me the ability to sort of speak to the. U S involvement in this, so I will note a couple of things here. First of all, this wasn't originally trumps war. He basically inherited this situation from the our administration and the. U S says it has legitimate reasons to be involved in this conflict know. Yet long been a hotbed for terrorist groups like Al Qaeda and so the U S has fighting arms and support to Saudi Arabia for more than four years once more those concerned american lawmakers is that those bombs have just been used pretty indiscriminately. The Saudis have, whether by accident or on purpose, bombed everything from spills to upon buildings to school buses, all using American made weapons. You talk to some people both in come in and with close ties to the country. So how is this war affecting daily life? This is really transform life

and one way of telling the story and kind of just how much the country has changed is to think about weddings. Yes, so my last tramp, I was sixteen, I was a teenager was summer time. It was awaiting season two bugs Jihad Hakim who's. The co chair of the Yemen american alliance. Here in the San Francisco barrier, she was born in the U S, but she visited Yemen regularly grow. Not weddings and Yemen, and go on for about a week and everyday, it's a different outfit and dancing in the streets. Fireworks people out and the middle of the night sky, shut down, block parties, kids, food. Music. It was just about That, of course, was before the war and things

hey look very different joyous occasions, like weddings, have actually been attacked in air strikes or family were killed. All that I'm going about hundreds of family whole family. Everyone in skill its NASA Araby he's a local journalists and filmmaker who we reached in Sonata country's constitutional capital. He's covered this conflict for the New York Times and other publication they bomb you. While you are in the middle of the wedding, killing the bride, Brady, roman everyone, all everyone didn't what happened. This is what it's like, and also You win you out, carry that the dead body to there. At the grave I would hundreds of people gathering and reciting Koran people? Saudi Arabia came upon them and all this balance has other consequence. Is the? U N says that up to twelve,

million people are dying of starvation in Yemen because of the impact of the war. They say it's the worst humanitarian crisis on the planet, his job How came again seized the yemeni american activist here in the Bay area you know, if we would, look at a conference. How, for example- and there are a hundred people in this conference room, seventy five percent of these people do not have anything the ape and then, if we multiply that times the population of Yemen, which has a little over twenty two million people. Seventy five percent of Yemen population are in need of it. Monitoring, assistance right away and nearly half of those. And better in need our children. Ah, so I know it's, it feels like something that distant and far away, and we just look at numbers and statistics, but its drastic

the need is, is dire. Okay, so we started out talking about president tromp vetoing his bills, to limit arms sales to Saudi Arabia. How much has Congress done to try and intervene? You know there have been some efforts in Congress to make an impact and, as we like, the couple times where, if we were gonna talk about Yemen, we would talk about it when two specific bills were being discussed and voted on a big one. Was this by partisan bill, basically to pull the USA out of the Yemen conflict completely? I can April. This is important, because Yemen faces still a potential famine of millions of people, the worst humanitarian crisis in the world that row corner the congressmen who introduced that first bell. A conflict in Yemen is one of the

greatest sources of tension in the Middle EAST to solving the war in Yemen would do a lot to bringing greater peace to the Middle EAST and the fact that the Congress came together. Pass a senator centres and my war powers resolution to stop a war should have led down the front page of every newspaper, but this was in on the front page of every newspaper. Right I mean far from it. In this case it didn't really matter, because President Trump ended up vetoing the bill right after it was passed and, as we said before, in July. He went on to veto three other bills that would have banned more than eight billion dollars in arms sales to Saudi Arabia. Normally, when the President vetoes a bill, it gets a lot of attention and the media did covered the vetoes but they're coming lost in the new cycle. Right, I mean the really wasn't a whole lot of public awareness about this one

big reasons why people might amidst this news, is that it coincided with Donald Trump, either: waiting or saying something that was either racist or hurt, fall or insulting, which basically just took over the new cycle through the president tweeted about Cummings Baltimore District, it reads quote: Cummings District is disgusting rat. Wrote it infested mess? If he's so, I distinctly remember. Maybe he d Baltimore tweets, though journalists were won. T forget that term protested right around the time that other bills were trying to be passed to veto the sales of arms to Saudi Arabia and hauled up is basically picked up. In the news, and it is increasing, frustrating when tweet storms do take place it is to me this keeps happening when

The bad news is coming down. The pike for the administration- and it just seems to me to be a coincidence, is what I'm trying to get it I mean look. Then Trump has issued five vetoes since he took power for them. Five vetoes have been vetoes of legislation that was agreed on by Congress. The Conakry about anything, It was agreed on by both Republicans and Democrats, who was sent his desk and he vetoed them and right at the same time, this this, egg brouhaha about something else, and that story gets completely buried. We can't say that its purposeful, but There is certainly like whether smoke this fire, so both of those bills had been vetoed. Is this to say that we are still lending support to the war in Yemen, because this. Yes, we I mean that that support has reduced somewhat when no longer, for example, refueling saudi airplanes in MID air and that something that came out of the bill that was passed in April, but we are still somewhat

We in the process of selling Saudi Arabia and his allies more than eight billion dollars worth of weapons that will probably end up being used in Yemen. Those are some pretty dire consequences. I mean basically things just keep getting worse in Yemen Earth released. They don't get any better, his yemeni american activist Jihad, how came again thrush rating, because we why these story is the impact and highlighted so maybe Americans, what will think about it? Americans will care about Americans will. To do something about it and extremely hard. Sitting in different congressional visits, showing pictures of children's body, part all over the place and try to capture the impact in words? And images and it being kind of not taken seriously and then the ME

does the same thing. I asked yemeni journalist NASA Araby is well like if he walked out of the room where he was talking to me from what does he see and hear what he said you can see their misery in the eyes of the people who were displayed left their house and came to close or not? They are in this land there in a very bad places, therein unfinished buildings therein in some schools, so we are talking about Millions of people left their home. I can't help but think that gives now we're going to look back at this and we're going to have to be called into account for not bearing witness and doing something about this. So I guess my question, for you is what the media's responsibility and what can we do? I mean I'd like to think that we

that sort of moment of realisation like now that, where the we're looking at it and we're saying, hey, wait a minute a we are we playing the game. Are we looking at all the wrong stuff, and that was kind of the point- was to go back and and really dig into the stories that we missed and- and this was no, we thought the most important one and you're right I mean, we have a responsibility to pay attention to this stuff, because it has a real impact and That's what Rwanda chief told me a few member two thousand and eighteen, when the school, and the was hit by the Saudi led coalition, and it was a bus carrying children after a field trip. There was a lot of press coverage about that petticoat incidents, everyone from CNN to kneel times the Washington Post, MSNBC to even Fox NEWS, would come at it and when everyone had written about this particular strike and

also. That was a strike where you must munition, had been used and was well documented, you saw that actually, the Saudis. They took accountability for that strike because media played such a huge role in it. People in Congress was starting to speak up. People in Poland in the UK was starting to speak up, and it was one of the very few strikes weather had happened. The Saudis took responsibility for it and said you. We have done that and we're going to investigate it. So we see them and something gets attention in the media can lead some real action, which is white, doubly frustrating for people involved in this conflict when the media doesn't give this important issue. The time that needs- and this is just one of the stories has been overlooked in this- took a lot of time

to dig into what else could we be missing? I mean, I guess we don't know until we go looking, as you said earlier, it's important to cover when, when trumpets is tweeting, something racist or when across his boundaries, of course, it is but I think we should all can have a warning. Like goes off heads that When we see the latest greatest controversial statement, we It also be looking in the corners and looking behind them and saying what the stories on it we could be missing. Two little girls place without any thanks out President Trump expresses a lot of opinions onto but he's remained relatively quiet about the cure, not conspiracy. Theory that portrays him as something of a superhero can a fight against the deep state the Trump Administration has never done anything to significant distance itself from you another way. In fact, don't on twitter

has retreated or quote tweeted Q and accounts more than twenty five times That's coming up on reveal from the centre for investigative reporting and p from the centre for investigative reporting in p r ex this is reveal a mallet and, as we see in prison, trumps ability to use twitter to send messages to his nearly sixty five million flowers can sometimes and are burying important news stories arisen. Political poll shows sixty percent of respondents think President trumps use of twitter is a bad thing and seventy percent say he tweets too much, but there's something trump has been uncharacteristic required about online and elaborate far right conspiracy.

Theory that has the president at its centre. I'm talking about you and you may have heard of it. There's a person known only askew, whose supposedly a high ranking government insider who drops online bread crumbs, to show believers, the dark secrets of who's really running the world to help me dig this is how relates to trap. I talked with an expert who calls himself Travis view. He uses a pen name to avoid being trolled by the Qanon, faithful, he's written about it for outlets like the Washington Post and host a podcast that explores and the bunks the nooks and crannies of this right wing fever dream. I asked him to start with the basics. The basic premise is that the world is controlled by this cabal of Satan, worshipping sex traffickers into these individuals. They control everything the Control Hall,

words and all politicians and the highest reaches of business and the mainstream media and up in the queue and on their it of those from knows all about the skull and he has been sort been plodding for decades self, take it down, and since he has been elected, he's been working alongside this group of military intelligence officials known as cute, put it messages, and this is all happening through online message. Boards, like four chance in a chance, vast, correct, yeah. The other essentially believe that you'll be far. They can serve me code, these posts from these these with who they believe coded messages, and this is all happening through online message. Boards, like four chance in a chance, vast, correct, yeah yeah. They essentially believe that if they can conserve decode these posts from these these with who they believed to be falsely Milton

intelligence officials, then they sort of can understand, what's going on behind the scenes, thus this or that the broad outlines the conspiracy theory. So let me ask you who believes in the stuff how big is to a non community really, and why should we be paying attention? I think that killing on is surprisingly large in the sense that there does seem to be a large group of people online who are gathering in sharing notes and NEO trying to spend their own conspiracies online, the actual size community is actually unknown. Recently in Washington D C on September, eleven There was the very first reawakening rally, and this was the very first incident in which a group of Kulan people gathered for a basically acumen on specific event.

The only manage to assemble about less than a hundred people, so is that, like a whole, lot of people is not sought huge but is still far too many. I mean the queue non community. They believe things are just so wholly absurd and detached from reality, and even though the art of a huge political force, I think they're big enough to be worth paying attention. Politics and the answer is yes, mostly because, like a lot of the basic serve like conspiracy theories that that Cuba, people are home to our conspiracy theories held more generally by people in the far right I mean the one of them is the, for example, the our whole too, are conspiracy theories held more generally by people in the far right I mean the one of them. Is the oil, for example, the Clinton body out conspiracy, theory there are some cannot follow- should believe that Hillary Clinton, it was responsible for the tragic death of chafed K, Junior

in July nineteen I denied that conspiracy theory was sore breed when on are certainly do spread outside of the queue, and I can hear the. How did you get involved in studying and understanding of this? I was then he went on, are certainly do spread outside of the human eye community. How did you get involved in studying and understanding of this

That was her aware of Qanon for the first half of twenty eighteen. By far as a kind of a weird internet thing, I didn't pay too much attention to it. Cuz. I noticed that Charlie Kirk who's, a very popular conservative commentator who is like met the president to spare the Fox news. He speaks in college over the country. He started promoting these really bogus department of Justice Statistics, which claimed fall slave, that human trafficking arrests had skyrocketed under President Trump and when I survey track the source of these bogus human trafficking arrest statistics, I learned that they actually came from the Qanon community and they had slowly trickled up all the way to Charlie Crooks Twitter account and that worried me greatly, because it may be realized that this crazy, absurd conspiracy theory, which should stay at the bowels of

the internet, if it has to exist at all, is suddenly creeping into serve the highest reaches of conservative pundit tree, and so for that reason I started tweeting about more often and serve an attempt to make more people aware What was going on here as anything Dick, you and I had predicted it as it actually come. True. No I mean not really, and the thing is that very rarely makes good. Like really serve like solid predictions, he will imply that something it means nothing, but since the water cover seventy percent of the planet, there's going to be an event. That's news worthy of that somehow involves water and their kunaks meteoric. Sometimes point of that. So it's basically like the trick that you get from people who were reading your fortune, who make it so vague that pre much anything that you can imagine could fit into their box.

People who are breeding your fortune, who make it so vague that pretty much and saying that you can imagine could fit into their box yeah. This is a trees, old, cold reading trick. Elderly people used with crystal balls are palm raising our Carol cards, but the other. The principles are the same so this? They believed conspiracy, theory. You don't. I mean it basically builds Trump up to be a superhero, really amazing. Think about it, like all the things it like, they believed that he's done in our masters spy in his worked his whole life to like correct these big injustices that that he sees. How does this help him as a brain in an area as is outside of status. I mean Trump is definitely not the political status quo I mean yeah, this is really part of, I think trumps appeal,

play, Mikey generally also in the in the current community. I feel like people in the queue and community. They really feel like there is this political establishment that is just calcified Papa Strings is down and will never do anything to help people like them and trump. On the other hand, the sort of like the anti deep state is that doesn't seem like he's. Unpublished, strings is loud unease in these crazy and for that people feel, like he's a neo. I almost like a bomb, and so of the the establishment so yea? It really is sort of like it takes a sort of like his generals or of outside our status among the elites and just serve cranked up to a comic book level. Has a trumpet, ministration or trouble selfie, twitter or otherwise attempted to clear all this up and just denounce all the stuff or are they so No, no. The Trump administration has never done anything to significantly distance itself from

you're not anyway, in fact, Downtowns twitter account has retweeted or quote tweeted Q and on two counts more than twenty five times. In fact, Asia, Iqs Follower Name Stacy, dad This problem was famous for her role in the movie clueless What's on the as a co chair as the for the woman for Trump Coalition for the Trump two thousand and twenty campaign, so we are Q on follower is advising the Trump campaign. In addition to that, for the Yell August First Cincinnati Ohio, brolly. A lay co host of this life string called Patriot, soap box. It basically talk about calling on all day long was given the press pass and surf. Invited knows where was photographed with Brad par scale. The young chair of the Trump twenty twenty campaign against my question is: if Cuban on is, really, a small minority within the trunk coalition, What does it matter if he calls him out or not? I think it matters to the coup in our community,

because they bought me all that validation. They want basically trump himself to somehow acknowledge them in any way that they can buy. Thickets, your important? More broadly, because there was a intelligence Bolton from the Phoenix Field Office of the FBI, which warned about the threat of conspiracy? Theory Extremism and actually name cure specifically as a possible source of this extremism, and so Neil Kinnock is, I think, by definition, extremists, movement, and it would be helpful if the administration made it clear that they want no part of extremist movements. This is all reminded me of pizza gate, another conspiracy theory that sounds really similar. This was before you and I

but it had some of the same elements. Top Democrats, including the Clinton's word, devil worshipping pedophiles. They used a pizza place in Washington DC to traffic children. Now all of this is totally false but one of the people who believed it ended up going to the restaurant with an eight hour, fifteen pointing at an employee even find shots at a locked door trying to save these non existent children. So do you see a connection between how this pizza gate conspiracy spread and cure non Obviously, there is also a love similarities in the theory that serve the world is a sort of controlled by Neil, a group of say, tat it child sacrificers, but in Well Pizza All of us are the evil activity was located or one location which was commenting now Peter Real Washington DC in cuban honest which were brought. This is the belief that is going on all over the world, old everywhere and basically everyone with any high degree

of power or influence our famous in on it. Thinking about pizza gate that ended up with you know, died or no, I got hurt, but definitely was a scary situation. What about you- and I do think that it'll take the same trajectory and people actually become radicalized by this, so what's very different about peace, a gate and cure on. Is that the worse incident, like you mention, was that a man walked into common ping. Pong fired a single shod inside of the peace area and is currently serving a four year sentence to another. Their hand, already has a body count in that comes in the form of the death of the mob boss, Frank Kelly, at the hands of a man named Anthony Camillo and Anthony Camillo, was a according to his defence attorney is a man who was very, very meshed in the queue and community and, in fact, try to form citizens. Arrests of many high profile figures are mentioned by

q, like congressmen, Adam Schiff, while he apparently try to perform a citizen's arrest of Frank Kelly and when this went wrong he wound up, shooting and killing him and I M as part of his defence in his secondary murder trial. His offense attorneys are basically arguing that he was so. The plea enmeshed in this key on fantasy world that he didn't understand what he was doing and he thought that he was doing the right thing because he so fully believed in the queue and on so ready Cuban on is more dangerous and deadly than Peter gave ever was So, yes, a pseudonym is because you're scared of what the cure non community What do they find out? Who you are, I am being perfectly honest, I'm not at worry. There are many other fantastic ask: journalists who cover q and on who are even more profit the me, but on the other hand, I do appreciate the extra level security that day pseudonym provides me. Ideally, I would prefer-

not too dark may not to know my my real name, but at the same time, I feel that threatened. If I were to be docks, but an added layer of protection. I appreciate those tribes, he'll writer and photos of acute, not anonymous podcast. So How should we be looking at what the President says or doesn't say of? I don't think it's just ran that he roles at a bed and starts tweet, I think he understands what will follow. That's coming up on reveal from the centre for investigative reporting, he or

from the centre for investigative reporting and p R. Ex this is reveal amount lessen. The term presidency has been a paradigm shift on so many loves. It shaken up the rules for how the press covers the office and how the president interacts with the press. In many instances, he's cut out the reporters in them works altogether, no matter what you do, no matter how good, no matter, how great it is a little before it in a positive fashion. So when I can reach whether it's ninety million or a hundred million or eighty million. However many people it may turn out to be when you everything up and then, of course, it gets disseminated from there when I can reach that many people, There is a wonderful thing for me because I get the word out. We wanted to dig into the president's twitter strategy with two people who think a lot about the role and responsibilities of the media and who also happens to be power: Twitter

users themselves. My name is J rose on, I teach journalism at New York, university J, also rights, a blog called press thing. This is so it out o Brien. I am an anchor and a reporter and sold at home a week. We show called matter of fact. We start talking about where journalists focus their attention. Trump uses twitter as a direct way to reach out to his followers and also to the american people just in general, and so we need does he's tweet storms in as is all of these controversies, it seems that the media tends to rush to the tweets their happening and begin. Putting on those and not on the actual policy decisions, being made away from his twitter handle reporter friends of mine would say all the time. They be working on a story and then all of a sudden you be in a forced to run off and cover some tweet. The lesson everybody twitter to reach out directly, that's the entire point of twitter. I think that

The media has not figured out how not to be used the bosses have We decided that they're gonna chase everything right. That's it that's a decision that comes from? Above someone says: no, no, you don't leave this and go chase that, and so that becomes the new narrative, and so you see on Twitter a lot reporters just quoting Trump, even when they know full. Well, that he's lying. That this quote is absolutely objectively fall. Sid is a lie that they will call you think they would quote. Present tromp says the moon is made of cheese and will feel perfectly fine. Yes, the president said that my argument would be, if you know it's a lie, You know this thing to be untrue and your elevating it as a truthful statement there, some, very wrong that your job is journalism and I think that's the big part. The problem, really amazing, so that that this statement is true, the most ports-

force from misinforming the american public is the president of the United States. Has the platform he continually desert penned. The wanton imposed is now up to twelve thousand. Forces are lies told from that platform, and this pattern takes advantage of the fact that free outrageous, divisive dumb. Uninformed, counterfactual explosive, ridiculous, absurd tweed from the President, as was his answers in and back and forth, with the press, our newsworthy by traditional definitions of news, and so really happen is that Trump has broken that system and its very difficult to get. People who have been working in one way to now reflect on a rule book that doesn't make any sense anymore. So there were three years into the term presidency. Do President Trump is strategically trade,

to dominate the new cycle, or are they just random thoughts, I dont think its strategic. I think it's the acting out of a malignant narcissists personality and the desperate need for attention now a strategy at all. I actually think all that describes a strategy I think there is a strategy when a toddler interrupt something there's a logic that a strategy that you know. I think sometimes there's an understanding that, if I do X Y will happen if I run into the dining room. All my parents are having their fancied better toddler, ladle your slaves and leave. It really is a toddler level sort of strata, That's not strategic great that, but that you know you can disrupt everything if you do acts, but I think his intention around it? I dont think its. Random that he roles at a bed and starts tweet. I think he understands what will follow and again. I think that

The true failure of journalism is that they reporters, then just follow. So how do we fix it, though, because it would seem to me that, because he is the president of the United States, that we do have to put some way by woody tweets At the same time, we have to keep pushing stories about what he's doing twitter and what the administrations doing as well. So how do you fix it? I think at every step, we would journalists are supposed to be providing. Is com, next I remember the very beginning of trumps presidency, arguing with a reporter from the New York Times. I said you know you don't have to cover the president's rallies and they were just stun like they couldn't even imagine a world in which you would not go and live cover the press its rallies. Only there's you just don't have. There's no real that says you have to, and I would argue if you know the person is spewing lies, doing a disservice, and I think a similar thing. I think you have to sit

and decide that there's something wrong with the way you're covering it. That's a big first step and then you have to say what we're going to add contacts were ever gonna, say the president says the moon is made of these. We will never do that were going to say the president inaction. We stated today at a press conference at the moon was made of cheese when scientists have said for the last excellent fears the moon is not right. Like you, you just have to do the work of providing context if you're gonna give it a platform so J, as of professor, whose teaching journalism, how do you talk to young students about about that issue in itself, I try to start with the stakes ass. I really think that journalism of the public practice a free press in countries around the world is under threat, is under attack and forms of politics that treat the press as a hate. Object are succeeding in

on the rise, not just in the United States around the world couple that, with business model challenges in journalism, couple that with the power of the platforms which dont have any journalistic responsibility and then add the rising mistrust of the present of journalists as professionals, and it should be cleared to students, whereas it is me that we can lose journalism. We can lose the press, one of the things that is is causing laws is it newsrooms though they knew they had to diversify. Never really did I believe everyone would agree with me on this, but I believe one of the problems. One of the reasons that it hasn't is that you, our people from different races backgrounds.

The theory there is that they're gonna bring their perspective to the new German is needed because, as is missing, then when they get there. They learn that they're supposed to leave their perspective at the door and just prove that It can be serious news people and that kind. Prediction is founded on the fact that bosses wanted a more diverse newsroom they said they did I also wanted to preserve the view from nowhere objectivity at the centre of that news from that objectivity from the centre of the newsroom, read that as air older. Why dude perspective right make sure if you're coming in that, you can figure out how to mimic that. How does a coverage in the dynamic change when the presidency is controversial, races, things that target communities? color. Listen at all, I can say, is early on. I knew that my personal strategy would be to call out race

when no one is willing to say the word lie or no one is willing to say the word races store. No one is willing to say that's bigoted, then everyone, sits around and makes up these words, but we all know wink Winkie racially charged racial, the charge, and I do think someone needs be the one to say so. This is bullshit and we're gonna call the assent, listen, I have zero too loose. I run my own come there's no one. You can pull my contract, so I feel very fortunate because I used to have to play a game and I dont I dont have to any more I really get to do would ever I want to do and my goal in doing, that is to say to other people. This thing I am saying is true and there's evidence around it, and so you can be free now to say it, or at least we're gonna insert this conversation into the public space Joe. What about you I am less interested in whether journalist call the present in a racist,

whether the label, an episode of racist, I think it's time for the journalists to just treat the Trump wave and his as I said, is coalition being built around a kind of racism other. Even then, is the trump reelect an effort? This is the Trump movement is it is the logic of their position. And I I would just rather than this, these kind of like explosions around the term racism and I would, a rather see racism incorporated as routine analysis and into how the trunk machine operates. I think journalists, though, have a hard time even saying The word like, I think, that's two more steps down from where many are, and so I think that what I have tried to do is to make people uncomfortable and it's actually very much fun to do right.

It is asking someone. So what is racially charge me because you just wrote that what does it mean? What's racially charged, what why why are you hesitating call this racist? Have you ever get a satisfactory when when, when you ask somebody like what what is it me, yet, you really push. They still tell you. I just feel like we can't go all the way. I think I think the bar is extremely high when it comes to light. Going. Somebody erases like if someone in because nobody raises they will have. I've done, Dylan, roof type damage before someone says Lake. That's races, yes over years, usually or ending in a massacre? It's it's! Yes, the bar for calling someone a racist is very high, but do you think there is a value in forcing people to take a look. Literally what they're saying and is having them hesitate for the moment before they just write it. I'm curious after this whole big conversation, who do you guys think is getting

Right Lake in this twitter, Asia, wherein the trumpet minister, kind of flooding the zone what news organisations a you'd astern tune into? Who, who do you really think, stands out? I really reed and watch everything. As much as I criticise CNN, and I think they do many things really poorly. I think there's some really good reporting that's happening at sea. In it I love the Washington Post. I think they make some big mouth they do a terrible job handled things as much as I criticise CNN, and I think they do many things really poorly. I think there's some really good reporting that's happening at CNN. I love the Washington Post. I think they make some big mistakes sometimes I think everybody has some really really good moments and and then the unfortunately there's lots of operation please for mistakes, and I'm sure anybody who watch my show would say

watching matter of fact this week and I felt like soda did a good job on the first one, but the second one was conall aim and she could have done it better and the third one she came back and then I'm sure we're all like that during what about you, I would also add, I think, The Washington Post has done one thing particularly well. Today, do manage to describe. What going on in the term government in a more direct way than their competitors do, and I think that deserves to be recognised. But I don't think any news organization has figured out this puzzle that we ve been talking about, and so a source and read a national take on it, and then I think you get a pretty well rounded view now. You can't do that for every There are good, but there's no newsroom that I think has figured this out. I think there's some but interests you it's actually pretty easy today to follow thread of a story and sometimes that story gets developed over time and I would say, Rita,

local source media makes, I shall take on it and then I think you get a pretty well rounded view now can't do that for every single story? You lose your mind, but I think if there are issues that you care about, then you hop into both those individuals and the thread of the story that is suddenly interesting to you and and social media makes it very see to follow those threats we are already in the election season. I got a little scared, I'm not talking about gave for the countryman scared for the business of media news, yeah, yeah yeah, I mean it said, It's depressing. It is depressed. The first one goes on too long and everybody has given up any kind of ghost on the idea that it's about informing the public. It is a really good opportunity to run commercial, which you can charge a lot of money for which will make a lot of money for the network right, it's not about actually digging into policy or figuring out.

Really is making sense or who was actually has been proposed that are impossible to fund or anything like that right it it's. You know same old, same old, who looked better, who had the witty comeback, who had the it's just such a stupid way to judge leadership and that's to say yeah. When I look at this twenty twenty campaign, I approached with trepidation because one of the things I ve learned by some in terms of the press is that you cannot keep from getting sucked into his whirlwind of lies and hate, which is his agenda without an agenda of your and what I mean by an agenda is a set of priorities that you know resonate with the people you're trying to inform view, derive your agenda from asking the people you're trying to inform. What do you mean the candidates to be talking about as they compete for votes, not who even about four, which party to you favour

or which Canada do you like. But what do you want the candidates to be talking about as they compete for votes. Now, if you asked, question in a genuine way. People answered in a genuine way, they're not going give you the names of these issue, buckets that joint political journalists talk about thing. I talk about their lives and their the campaign coverage in the campaign itself is supposed to connect people's lives. The choices we make in politics, but the inside game and the horse. Races style of analysis, short circuits that process and we never to find out what the public agenda, for the campaign is so. I'm gonna make this prediction. The press cannot. Keep from getting sucked into trumps agenda unless it has won and possesses one of its own and articulated, and this is just so contrary to

the way that our major news organisations run. I don't think they're able to do it and that's why I approached this campaign would trouble. J, Rosamond Solidarity, Brian. Thank you. So much for join me today view Outflanks J rose and teaches journalism it, and why you and rights the blood pressing so it is a reporter. It hosted weekly, show a show matter of fact our producers for this week show I will call us achieve a meaning. And, ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome to our new producer priscus, nearly as the crab risk of that's the crowd, didn t and edited the show our production manders. Moody in a host are sound design team is a dynamic, do J, breezy, Mr Jim Briggs, and Fernando.

Man, Yo Aruba they held this week from Catherine Raimondo R C- illustrates the sharp birds miss Thompson is our editor in chief executive producers, Kevin Sullivan, I see music is by Colorado, lightning support reveals provided by the Raven David Logan Foundation, the John D in Kathmandu, Macarthur Foundation, the janitor Logan Family Foundation, the Ford Foundation, the hiding Simons Foundation, the democracy fund and the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation reveal is a co production in the center for investigative reporting and p r ex analysis, and remember there is always or to the store. These are last few shows of the year, and let me tell you in twenty twenty we are bringing the fire launching some of our most ambitious projects we ve ever done. I can wait for you to hear them reveal, is all about going deep, pulling on threads

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