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From the centre for investigative reporting in p r. Ex this is reveal a mallet dusting testing testing want war. We are just in nice boy, new national socialist movements, the Asia, some almost a year after the Unite the right rally, protest Charlottesville. We'll Carlist is in noon in Georgia, small town, it's about forty minutes. Car ride from Atlanta he's covering awaits premises rally held by the National socialist move. Only a few hundred protest is over there and NEO Nazis setting up there's a huge police presence. Helicopters are flying in the air military. Great vehicles patrolling the streets and right teams are on the ready, but the majority of the people at this rally are in fact

protesters to the hundreds of people just screaming at these NEO Nazis, while they were setting up their sound system and then proceeded to make a bunch of just incoherent speeches rambled on and pretty much covered the whole gamut of their hateful world view, but without any coherence or intelligence european, really quiet, first, we're going to learn them the commander other nationals, socialist movement- you can, here in the background members of the group shouting to this lady like hey. This is an aim and and and that really just summed up to me how kind of pathetic these guys really were, but this scene is ineffectual. As these white supremacist were on that day, a kind

what's the shift in your coverage right, that's right. I remember go back to my car and so taking a breath and calling up my editor and saying, like you know, we feel kind of uncomfortable about about coming in and and covering these guys, because that just not and Attack of the real problems that we have in America. When it comes to hate and extremism in that gets to the root of this. Our views is the second episode where we're looking at white supremacy in America. Last week we looked at the outward expressions of hate that everything that Wilson this rally, but this hour is about institutional racism, which is what will begin investigating after the rally, and he started by focusing on the police because most of us know the police are so well protected. In America. They have just Otto secrecy among please

departments, it so difficult to get disciplinary records from most apartments and, if that confidential, in a lot of states- and it's just really hard to find out what these people think what's going on behind that badge, but one of the places people go when they're, the least guarded is social media and what we found is tat. Facebook has these closed groups that a sort of secret discussion groups filled with racist and islamic phobic. An anti immigrant comments plus anti gay anti female comments. What we found a bunch of cops joy, these groups and posting in them, and so how did you get into these groups? We just joined the I mean we just used our real names. We answered the questions and, and often we were asked like pretty uncomfortable questions like you know, do you think Islam should

be banned in the United States or in this group is sometimes racist. Does that bother you and we just had to answer them truthfully, so we would say things like. I prefer to keep my politics to myself or something that we have as he didn't get into all these groups, who were directed by a lot of them, but we got into a few and were able to see some of the stuff. What was going on so I've been a part of private facebook groups before and these accountable this is where a year with like minded people, so therefore you just you talk in a way that may be little bit more guarded outside of those groups, will you hearing in these groups see inside low? The group's things like stereotype means you see stuff about jewish people, stuff about African Americans and an immigrants. You see people. You know posting pitches of Adolf Hitler Raw using happy the frog, which is that it

Mass gotten deity that these guys use- and you also just see people you know saying the inward and sang nasty stuff about people of color and and immigrants, and just being very, very open about it. You all- I see a lot of people using the kind of code language of the far right and vision to kind of saying this hateful stuff. Behind the closed doors of closed groups, wheels found some colleagues who are quite happy to say Riddy Hateful, a nasty things specifically about Islam, actually on the public Facebook pages, so we would just able to gun. Look at their facebook, page and you'd see people posting things like is law is the religion of the devil and means of roasting pigs on that they would post on the first day of Ramadan with the message happy Ramadan,

So that's one area where these guys didn't bother going into closed groups. They just set it right there out in the open, and we find a handful of active duty cops who a posting stuff like that and then at several retired cops who are doing as well. So can you confirm that the people that you think or cops in these groups of the actually are police officers when it was a long process but ultimately were able to confirm almost four hundred active duty or retired law enforcement? Who are members of these extremist groups on Facebook? confirm this by looking at people's Facebook pages cause. You know some cops just list who they work, for this asserts through people's photos for peaches them in uniform, and when we needed additional information, we would call their department, and we also reached out to some cops themselves. I get him on the phone and just asked them about what they would

doing on Facebook and what did they say when you confront them, where they scared or where they defiant back across the board? I got a lot of defiance. You know, there's nothing wrong with what I'm doing and a lot of people saying I can post sort of anti muslim staff, or my facebook page or end of inside a face the group, but that doesn't mean that I'm really biased against Muslims is just a joke, or it's just or something. It's like a political view that I can separate out from What I do when I'm out and I'm where my badge and I'm doing my job, for example, this guy de familiar so who was a detective in Westchester? in New York, and I on him inside one of these car nasty dog whistling groups, I'm not a racist. I just happen a poster silly mean on what I think. My in my opinion is a humor website. So, first of all, what this guy describes as a humor website is absolutely

oh of racist, Anti semitic. Anti Islam means jokes, it's not a nice place is not a funny place. You go in there and within a few seconds, you'll find photos of Hitler. You'll find stereotypical images of african Americans, and I mean he wasn't just in the worst off on their, but he was posting things like a meme of a guy making thee now commonly used gesture of the o k symbol with his hand, underneath a racist joke about immigrants to the United States. I found him in their posting right under a Tucker Karlsson tonight story about how immigrants from Central America were were committing crimes in Mexico and he posted underneath ha ha ha ha ha f them. So, a few weeks ago, when I got this guy on the phone, I asked him about that.

If you found my name on it on a k, K, K website, you would be absolutely applauded. I would applaud you for going through. The names are on a website like that, then going through in finding the police officers. There's no place for a police officer, in my opinion in America, was a member of the cake eight. But this is it. This isn't harmless, that's disturbing because either he doesn't understand or he doesn't want to understand how implicit buys works. So if someone says stuff online, if deep down, they believe it negative, Allie interact with people in real life. For me, how could it not right- and I can't tell you like how many times I have this conversation, this sort of conversation with police officers- look, I might be like liking and Anti Islam, meme or member of a group called death to Islam

but I got no problem with Muslims. You know I got no problem with them with members of that community and I treat them completely fairly. I've heard that from cops all over the country like again and again again now, did you talk to this detectives superiors what they have to Yanina? We made a point of writing to all these departments to the superior officers, the police Chiefs, the sheriffs, if all the people that we found posting stuff so, for example, detective from you, so I can Westchester County the Westchester pleased opponent immediately launched in internal affairs investigation into his postings. They said that they are extremely concerned about them, wanted to look into them. He guess, while retired, like shortly after that got started and swears that the two things have nothing to do with each other. He also swears. He has a completely unblemished recalled that nobody's ever complained about him in any way, shape or form now across win, not able to find that out, because police.

Courts, are completely confidential in the state of New York. So we have no way of telling whether that's true or not, out of all the police officers that you found and those that you were able to find their superior officers and inform them about what they were doing was the outcome of that. Did these people get fired, Are they still working as police officers? So I'll go about that blanket a silent for a minute, because the honest answer is we don't really know what happened to a lot of these police officers to be reported to their superiors We sent their chiefs and sheriffs information. We sent them screenshots, we sent them. What these guys have been up to, but whatever happened to those investigations, we don't know I've been told by more than fifty departments that they ve launched internal affairs investigations, and we know in the case of at least one guy by the name of J T, Thomas or James Thomas, who was a detective in the Harris County.

Department in Houston. He got fired after we found him inside a group called the White Privilege Club and we actually found him posting some questionable stuff in their. So, for example, he posted the logo for the Black College Football Hall of Fame and he put two words as a caption. He puts seriously why question my basely questioning. You know why they should even be a black College Football Hall of Fame. The other thing he posted was this screen shot of an elderly african american aid being interviewed by a tv crew run after hurricane has gone through Houston and she's, been interviewed, cheese being asked how many churches were opened in the wake of the storm and she's, responding that she doesn't know, because she only eat up Popeye's. So just a clear reference

turn old troop about African Americans that that he thought was pretty funny. Now we presented all of this to the Harris County Sheriff's office. We send them a letter with screenshots of him and he got fired as a result of what we send them. So the Harris County Sheriff's office has a clear social media policy and it says personnel who, through the use of social media, cause undue embarrassment or damage the reputation of or road. The public's confidence in the department shall be deemed to have violated this policy, and they ultimately decided that he done that. He brought sort of disrepute on the department. He did appeal his firing in a civil service commission and we were able to get a reporter in their while they were discussing the meat

that I mentioned area cannot be considered a racist joke about churches, supervised chicken, if you, if you remove the black female one, just read that what's racist about it, but that's the whole thing is- and I know about the same, if you remove likely Mount picture what's right, you can't move that feels like it. Wanted to which it is debatable, know why didn't? You was part of a screenshot, so if your testimony there's nothing racists about this are you familiar with Rachel stereotype of black people lacking Jane I've? I've heard of it? Yes, and when you posted this, you don't think that's what this was now well. We can take some soulless and the fact that the commission, in hearing the appeal did uphold Thomas, is firing so he's no longer the department, so you said at the beginning that you were looking into this as a way to

stand what was going on with police in police departments across the country, and we know that there has been a lot of issues between please departments and the communities that they serve. I'm wondering If you ve been able to tie any the police officers that you found posting MRS things on Facebook to actually you know taking that prejudice that that anger in applying it in the real world yeah I mean that that there was a tricky part of this point honestly and in most cases we just ran up against the wall of you know we couldn't find out anything about the police officers and we can't tell you whether this person is, you know, being racially biased on the beat, because we don't We can see what they're doing being the worst some examples like

this guy and Madison County, Mississippi by the name of will wizened burger, he's a member who have Facebook group called White lives matter, and we also went to look at his history and it turns out his hold. The parliament is actually being sued by the ac. Oh you for decades of systematic racial profiling and as part of that, Mr Wise and Burger was actually deposed and no admitted to, among other things, having like punched african american guy who was handcuffed in the face he admitted to using the end words. You know why he's working on, so we were able to again get a little peak in some cases as to what's going on, but it cases that veil of secrecy is just so hard to peek. Behind that that you, just you just can't find out we'll girl is governed. Extremism for real well. Thank you so much thanks out

Acacia wondering how he went about tracking down all these cops and extreme is Facebook groups. You can read about that at our website reveal lose dot. Org sometimes discussion. She isn't is blatant is what will found on Facebook, necks, we're gonna, look at how people of color are kept out of home ownership and we're talking about a structure that is a race based economy that the pathways by itself, without any added racist input necessary. That's next on reveal,

From the seller for investigative affording a p r ex, this is reveal analogy today, we're looking some of the ways racism has been institutionalize in America, sometimes in plain sight, like housing, discrimination, it was totally legal in the? U S until the early sixties and war, major way, a play down with red lining. That's where the federal government, fines on special maps and shaded, some neighborhoods red warning banks not to make loans there. They said it would be financially hazardous because some areas were- and I quote- infiltrated by negroes immigrants to and even though those red lines are officially gone, the lines of disparity are still intact, as part of an investigation we released. Last year, our team spent a year going through millions of mortgage records to find out

who can get a homo today and who can't reporters manual Martine as airing glance and producer gave him his gouty teamed up to find out what was going on and picks up the story in Philadelphia, I'm in a part of West Philadelphia. That's not far from the University of Pennsylvania. It's what real letters call a neighborhood in transition. There are blocks pockmarked with vacant lots and houses with peeling paint and sagging front porches. This part of West Philly is sleep. Black ants, cousins, grandparents often live right on the same block. Families have lived here for decades, settling as far back as the liking for but there's a lot of remodeling construction going on you coming

moving in attracted by the affordable price of housing and proximity to the university. Rochelle ferule was one of those young professionals and she was hoping to buy a house neighbourhood, I am from Brooklyn Eric ballet Barbadoes Rochelle had graduated from North Western and Burma Stint in the peace corps. She was an early thirties, teaching, computer coating, rector's university and renting an apartment here and Philip when she decided to buy a house, my mom and her siblings have been obsessed with homeownership. You know and just like in green this idea in and all of us. My brother and I my three cousins, no matter the cost by a home you and how determined Michel is, but here's the other thing she super organised and prepared. Her mom was a public school teacher, whose centre to an elite boarding school where shall scholarship and was one of the few African Americans there she's a high achiever, but It has turned out to be a lot harder than Rochelle expected. Her first stop was Philadelphia.

Mortgage advisers. It's part of a new breed of independent lenders that are not banks. But are making an increasing share of the loans in the economic recovery. We're broken was a woman named Angela Tobin. Anybody works in mortgage arena here in Philadelphia, seems to know she is at first. The broker was enthusiast

for a male to Shell, were full of exclamation points. Angela reviewed were shells, credit score income and savings and told her everything was on track for then suddenly for shells, application was turned down, Rochelle wasn't on staff at Rutgers. She was teaching there on a contract. Angela told her. She hadn't been doing it long enough. She told her shell. She would have to wait two more years or get a full time. Job. We're Sheldon, think that was the real reason. I wanted to know what Angela thought. So I called her up a great errand harry you I'm doing well. Thank you for taking the time to talk. I appreciate it. First, I asked her about the camp. Pace, performance and Philly? The government keep track of who gets loans and who doesn't where we looked at the data. We found that your company Philadelphia mortgage advisers had made like two hundred fifty three hundred

conventional mortgage loans and twenty sixteen, and only ten of them the African Americans and unaware your dad is coming from, data is coming from the government, your company and every other company is filing information through the whole mortgage disclosure

and when we look at the data for your company, we see a much larger proportion of bar workers who are white and a much smaller portion of borrowers of color. I have only states that, because that is not at all my particular clients are, if you'd like to speak of coming to my office and happy to give you a contact information. I told Angela I'd be happy to talk to anyone from the company, but first I asked her about Russia application. Why had Angela turned her down? She was concerned that it might have something to do with her race that she was turned away. That's added! I carry. Why do you say that wealthy hung up on me after Angela hung up on me? I tried to set up an interview with an executive at the company, but no one would talk. Instead,

They sent a statement Philadelphia mortgage advisers didn't dispute. The numbers had had reported to the government, but they set an outside auditing firm had found. There was quote no elevated risk of unfair lending practices at the company we shall still wanted to buy a house as like? Ok, I need to get a full time. Job Rochelle got a job associate director of the South Asia Centre at the University of Pennsylvania ivy league institution. She manages a million dollar grant there. She found a two story house that needed some work and for all She went to suntan, DARE Bank the? U S, outpost of a spanish men, were there regional headquarters in Boston. Thanks balance was so horrible. The process dragged on for months. I had a fair amount of saving. Still, I had so much trouble just left and right, her loan officer

asking for new information, or sometimes information again. We're shall answered all the questions. Didn't matter, and none of it mattered? She felt like she was. The run around was real They sat a rubber there's one day largest, sat on the couch and was just like so defeated the process went on so long that eventually in paid. Electric Bell showed up on her credit report. It was for an apartment New York or we're Sheldon live anymore, she'd sublet it to another tenant. When Rochelle found out about the bill, she paid it right away, but it still plunged her good credit score down Fifty points in suntan dare said that was a deal breaker

for red lighting, was outlawed with fair housing act of nineteen sixty eight, this neighborhood, where she was trying to buy, wasn't shaded read, but it was shaded yellow the government said it was definitely declining because of the infiltration of jewish people and that the neighbourhood was quote threatened by negro encroachment. Rochelle wondered: did a race have something to do with the trouble she was having getting alone because after a year and a half of trying, she was still struggling. When I meet backup of her shall sheet tell me about her latest attempt to get a mortgage. It was with Santander Bank and again she was having trouble. I understandably was really upset because in I've been looking for a while, so I was like what do I do wish, always all her documents out on the table stacked in clearly labelled Manila folders. There

as are many long documents. Despite everything she's been through to buy a house, she hasn't lost her cool. She tells me she tried to bring on a co signed help get the mortgage approved. We're shows mom said she do it. Her mom is a retired school teacher who owns property and has a good pension, but the banks had now so we're shows partner, Hanukkah Franz suggested they apply together. The two had been dating for less than a year and Hanukkah didn't even have a full time job. I worked there in part time at this grocery store. I was there, but they decided to go for it because we shall had been trying to get alone for so long. Her credit score had taken a beating when a lender pulls credit report. The score goes down

The unpaid electric bill hadn't helped either by the time we started the application, those in a ready to put an offer on the house they had done so many poles that micro scar dropped to six. Thirty five- and I love you, I love you so hard. But what was your credit score? I was high like seven, forty four something you have no money we do this I was a schoolteacher for four years quit. My job moved to Japan was making nine dollars an hour. Selling migration selling french fries Hanukkah's. Most recent pay track was only a hundred and forty four dollars, but she had something else going for her she's white adjacent as we shall puts it in her mothers shepherd knees and her father is white. Hanukkah identifies as Asia

but she wondered if the loan officer saw her that way. Legally. My first name is Mary and no He calls me marry, my email is honey. Go you know him, call me mare, and then what towards the end just completely stopped answering machine phone calls ignored all of that window, and then I called- and he answered by almost a media and is so friendly. At this point had been trying to buy a house for over a year, a few weeks after Monica signed on Rochelle finally got a mortgage Santander aloud. Means yet alone, because article came on This process in a lot of ways for me, was really disempowering humiliating, humiliating. That's a lot of my bitterness comes from. I was made to feel like I think that I was contributing. Was

a value. I got it matter, Santander the banks that eventually gave Rochelle alone after her partner signed on, wouldn't talk to us instead the company sent us a statement saying. While we are sympathetic with her situation, we are confident the loan application was managed fairly. Rochelle story fits into a larger pattern, When we analyze millions of mortgage records, we found six, You want cities where people of color, far more likely to be turned down for mortgage than white people, and when they made the same amount of money, tried to take out the same size loan and by in the same neighborhood. All this got me thinking, a mere sybarite around. She writes about the banking industry and how it drives. The wealth gap

There is a law professor at the University of Georgia, but she started her career working on the upper slope of that wealth gap. I worked on Wall Street at the bank regulation department of a big law firm, and I happened Be there you know from two thousand and five until two thousand and ten during the financial crisis, and so I guess I, like to say that I was radicalized on Wall Street. She live Wall Street, behind, went academia and started writing books about the ways that the? U S, banking system perpetuates, she'll inequality like denying loans to people of color. Now this is something the Congress has been working for years. There was the fair housing then, in the seventies Congress, pass the community reinvestment ACT or signore their alchemy remit. When access. If your bank and you have this brand location in an area you have to give loans to those who are disadvantaged groups mean a black and brown groups in that vicinity. Ok, but how do you get around it? You just close up shop in the vicinity he does move to.

Emily White Neighbourhood and those obligations are gone. That's all banks would do anyway, the merging their consolidating their being more efficient and to their it's easy to avoid this neighbourhoods, and this year re is really weak. As a response to Essentially, what was structural thing that created a white suburb and a black ghetto and and created white wealth? and black intergenerational families not own homes, and then those things tend to self perpetuate. So what happens in the void if their these banking deserts in black community leaves in letting communities across the country other communities, what what happens and that void if there's nothing there the if no one's lending money. How do people get by there is? quite industry, Andrews but they're, not banks and the reason this is significant, because banks are subsidized by the guy might there under written there, I'm guaranteed

deposits are insured, but what you get when banks leave, or as they have never come in you fringe. Under my alternative lenders, you'd get predatory loans. Title learns check Ashura me go to any neighborhood where there isn't a bank. You got any black, nay. And I and my students do this right. They go take pictures of the payday loans in the in the area and they're all in one place of tons of em, all sorts of high cost high interest high dead lending is a? U gotta that yeah! That's that's where I saw the other half banks. And in their paying more so so two years ago, I was working in an economically depressed community. I was working with kids, air and water other things. It really surprised me when I first started working there is that the parents would come in to pay the after school camp that went in there were warm pay and that much money it was subsidize, but they would come in with cashiers checks or cash

about had their own checks, and when I asked the woman that was run in the programme about it, she told me where most of the people here don't have bank accounts and I was shocked by them, you looked into this extensively. Why didn't? They have a big again because for several reasons. One is it the usually. Banks aren't in those Abrahams, and so there is a just convenience of it. The utter is that I'm banks, charge overdrafts, immediate, says free tracking, but it's not actually so get fifty dollar fee, and then you get another our feet rate. That's a hundred dollars gone from here. Your bank account immediately like it in a week cycle. Writes a lot of people would decide rather too just do in cash and what that means, though, that is you paying something like ten percent every time you do. A financial transactions, so, if you are paying here

water bill. If you're paying your phone bill, your electricity bill, your cable bill, you have to you, get paid less aigner check. You have to turn that into cash and turn it back into money, orders at each different location or go and pay cash people. I think, understand what poverty is like. Poverty is not you with less money. Poverty is a whole different ecosystem. It is exposure to violence, its exposure to its uncertainty. Its scarcity is a different mindset. It's per day Then it's you know the disgust of members of society. It shame it's it's! You know a lot of stresses any motions and psychological effects that that people, I think, unless you ve been poor. It's hard to understand. There's things the: U S. Government can help level the playing field, but

providing banking services through the post office. Yes is not necessarily the whole federal government. Our document as the Post office, so with the post office would do simple banking, so it would be. Here savings account, and we could do a lendings. I too, so here's a simple loan yeah ten percent interest still self sustaining its, not a subsidy, and it would be something that people could go two. If they had an emergency, but that savings account function, I think it's really easy and totally do and the reason I know it's doable is that we did it. The post office in the United States was a bank from nineteen ten until nineteen sixty six in every other country abroad, developed country, developing country, third, world country, whatever we call it now, they have postal Banking, India, China, Brazil, the UK, Germany, Japan, ITALY, France, This is not some crazy radically, the other. Sometimes when I talk about people think that it is, but it still

simple and and the reason why make sense for the post office do. It is because we tax by banking. As our charter banks choose not to be Post Office has always been there He came out with a red lining, episode, a lot of feedback from listeners it one of the nasty grabs I got. Basically from a gentleman who said that he been working in baking for twenty years and that he was not races. Any couldn't understand. And why anybody would behave that way, but also he was like you know. Like me, there was one guy who was kind of a jerk, but the rest of the office would correct for, like he didn't quite understand how institutional racism works. How would you describe institutional racism in banking to someone like this gentleman who did not believe it existed, Ashworth even start. I mean, I believe this gentleman, I believe, a people when they say that they're, not racist, of course or not, but we did he didn't redefine. What were saying

We have two different economies right turn a huge lending to the black people because they don't have the money because of a history of these programmes and deprive them of this money. It's out racism at least the way that we have to pick that word with the cartoonish villains, with moustaches and or even the clansmen or just nasty White Ladys, who say mean things that that's what we're talking about when we talk about racism, we're talking about a structure that is a race based economy that perpetuates by itself without any added racist put necessary Mercer Baronne. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you. So much for having this is great mere separate. Iran is a law professor at the University of Georgia and the author of how the other half banks one more thing about our investigation, wild modern day red lining remains provision. We found it Ninety nine percent of national banks still get satisfactory or outstanding grey,

under the community. Reinvestment act up next look at race on the big screen, white supremacy has banned prevalent throughout cinematic history, these troops are, are pretty consistent. It's been less overt. I think I think that's why you can have a move like green book when the Oscar for best picture in twenty nineteen, your listening to reveal from the centre for investigative reporting, p r eggs? This is reveal. I'm outlets Brook Obi grew up as one of only a handful of blankets in her small number

good town in the nineties, tv was a refuge at a time when young like stars were breaking out, there was Simone there with caution. Night polio, so I saw myself. Quite often, fresh prints story got always was able to see reflections of myself, even though I was kind of growing up in white, suburban areas where there were a lot of other black kids but ass, she got older. She started noticing things on tv. That didn't say bright with her. So I think it was really just like the absence of that. I would start to pay attention to. Like you know, watching Lord of the rings in high school media, there are no black p and then leave the demons. The demonic creatures are all like. Does it dark elves with very dark skin and the bad guys are dressed like people.

From the Middle EAST, and so you know I was just kind of. There was always a little bit of a demonization of on whiteness ears, Deborah whether weather black people were present in the movie or not Brook now the managing editor of the online magazine shadow and act reporting on help. Full of color represented on screen, and I wanted her take on how white supremacy plays out in Hollywood such some people who may listen to this conversation. My thank you know. She's movies. Is it's not a big deal like so what? If black kids don't see a black character on tv, they can always identify with captain. America's captain makes very everybody like. Why should it matter- and that sounds like somebody who has been used to seeing themselves

screen throughout their entire lives. You know, Captain America has a very specific look and there are people in America who look like Captain America and receive the benefits of somebody who looks like Captain America good luck- and that's just really do not acknowledge the fact that America is actually proven itself throughout history to not be a place for everyone so it is important. You know to have a black hair, There are even be called Captain Erika or to have black Panther, like we had last year for the first time to have this black superhero that was so well received in this huge studio movie? I make no bones about the fact that I am huge comic book nerd and sitting there watching black Panther with my boys, other here's, my son tell me stay at the end of it. I couldn't help it. I just

I wept and I've tried the lake hide it from my boys, mostly because I thought They really wouldn't understand what it means. I did talk to them about it, but I don't think that It would really understand in the moment what it meant to me right now: we were actually filling a similar where way, not just with black Panther, but also with a wrinkle in time. I remember Auditioning for a play in Nebraska of of a wrinkle in time and I'm going out for the role of MEG and basically being told that why would I think that MEG could be black, so I actually webs also the next month when dna, but our mingle in time and there's this beautiful black girl and she is MEG and she's the star of this movie and she is jumping through planets. I mean it really does you're right. I think children

today are not gonna understand, but for adults who remember what it was like to be children to not have those opportunities to see ourselves. There is a kind of a moment of catharsis. That's happening to. Let's go we back in time to wear like co. All this got started the movie that be the most famous example wait supremacy in cinema history, a birth of a nation. How did this movie come about so there is his D Griffith he's actually making the movie a abomination based on a book called the clansmen. And it's really just racist propaganda. There are white men who are In black face who are attacking white women its basis we showing like me, any BC old fashion in sexually aggressive and dangerous fashion,

and showing the KKK as heroes they KKK had pretty much died down, but after this movie came out and was so so popularized. And celebrated the KKK actually reemerged, and it was also movie that was the first movie shown in the White House. Woodrow Wilson showed this movie in the white. And so you had the seat of american power. Celebrating this races properly kinda? How did this movie reflect? The common racist troops of early american Cinema, so you ve, got the white Savior trope, which is you know, White people are the ones who are going to come in and correct what is wrong and save the day. You know you ve got a black and as dangerous. You ve got in a white women as damsels in distress who need to be rescued so that film is plainly races? How did wide support

See screen evolve in the user, follow continue, tray, said evolution a white supremacy has banned prevalent throughout cinematic history. Now, although these troops are are pretty consistent, it's been less overt. I think I think that's why you can have a movie. Like the help, be so celebrated, or you can have a movie like green book when the Oscar for best picture in twenty nineteen, so I dont think that its necessarily gone away, I think, what's changed. Over cinematic history is the ability of black people and other critics of color to be able to speak out about what's happening in these films and these tv shows I think you know we have access now too the internet, so I think that's what's really changed here is that we have an opportunity to call it out. I wanted diamonds,

Will you just mention the help? What makes that movie racist cause. You know the promotion, for that movie is at its about black maids in the south who change. This young white woman's view The world and stood up for themselves, thus like a very positive Gauging message about african american women legs can be deceiving I'll, just say that You know you ve got a stone. She is

spunky young white journalist, and you know she wants to change the world, and so she is telling the audience the story of these black women through her eyes from her perspective as much about something from the point of view, the help these colored women raise with children and in twenty years those children become the boss. Look no made in her right mine is ever gonna. Tell you the truth: that's a hell of a risk to take in a place like Jackson, Mississippi, and so that's you know again, these black women don't have agency to tell like their own stories or to change their own lives or two even share in a what their personal journey. Is it's all through this, the framing? and the lines of this white young woman who people a fine to be a more acceptable narrator, specifically,

did a lot of these movies. Make way people feel more comfortable with the fact that they are not the raging races, that's wearing the clue, Klutz clan hat or the glucose clan good, absolutely, and so, therefore, it it's gotta be a good movie, because it reaffirms that I am a good person. I would definitely agree with I say we mean you look at a movie like green, but this is an opportunity to talk about Doktor, Donald Shirley. Who was this genius black musician? who invented his own genre of music, instead we get the story of his white chauffeur, this italian American driver he's very over we racist and mean, and then you know why people can watch then block. Well, I dont use those words. I would everything that a your I have more than one black friend and you know those kinds of things, and so it makes them it makes them comfortable

up until you grab some I've never had fried chicken like www abortion. A whole lot of brighter than the lurid colored greens and also you have a little bit of complicity there in the actual storytelling. You have the black character, who you know it so interested and invested in the white person being a better person in, and building, a friendship that it definitely let's the audience off the hook. So you know there's the backdoor tests, which is basically a litmus test. To see how well a movie treats its female characters. Does a couple different criteria. One of them being to female characters talking to each other, and their conversation has nothing to do with a man. Now, barely half of Hollywood films pass this test, but I'm curious, if you think maybe there should be sort of a backdoor test for african American

and people of color to see how they are being represented in a movie. Absolutely, I would like to create a white Savior infographic for peace so that they can know what a white Savior actually looks like in a movies a while their reading the scripts Dickens oh wow, we should probably avoid this. You know- are the black people of fully fleshed out? What makes the black friend trope, you know, that's the side character. Who is really really? vested in what their white friends are going through and really wants them to have the job they want the love they want, the life they want, but the like for an actually has none of those desires for themselves, so the That's a pretty common tropes leia, love for all of these troops to be put into a test so that people as their eggs, amending the use these groups as a writing. These groups. They can check it off and see. Am I making a stereotypical black character?

couple years ago April, rain started the asker, so white hashtag. Have we seen fruit from that labour that, that April in so many others have put forth while so, obviously, There are a lot more black people and people of color in general, who are now members of the academy as a result of the bad press, that the academy has received from Oscar so way round. These nominations, but I dont know that that has nest There were still seeing first right, so we still had Ruth Carter being the first black sand to win in the costume category. We have had a burglar being the first Peter, z, being the first. You know at the Oscars so fear, twenty nineteen. So there is change happening on a systemic. Oh, but you know we also for all of that progress for all of those black people that one you still.

Have green book that walked away with best picture tell me something that your excited about right now. Somebody that she's doing amazing work right now on them, so excited about is evident. You know she is putting out This amazing many series- I don't know if you ve, seen it it's called when they see us and it is about central part. Five, it tells the story. True story of these, I've, young men who were coerced by the police into confessing afford a horrific rape that happened in central park in nineteen. Eighty nine, you lived a child on by a guardian, all you with these men in this room hours, and she just give so much life to these boys

she gives so much warmth to their story and care, and you can tell that this noted tough subject matter. Made with so much love and I think, when we lift up artists like EVA you're out here doing work for our community and moving our culture forward and creating art that is healing we're going to continue to see more of that and we're going to continue to see what distinguishes art that's actually made for us from our perspective from a movie. That's no! That's not for us. You know that they can continue to make their white slavery movies if they once you, but we have these artists who are out here doing the work that is actually going to push our culture forward and push us forward as people in that's really really exciting. Brick obeys the managing editor of shadow enacted and the other of the book of Agnes Jaeger How shadow enact Facebook? Thank you so much

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