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to the season. Two trailer of Nova. Now, at the end of this part cast reveal is brought to you by progressive, we think more about how to tighten up your budget. These days, drivers who save by switching to progressive, save over seven hundred dollars on average and customers can qualify for an average of six discounts when they sign up a little off your rate. Each month goes a long way get a quote today at progressive Dotcom, progressive casualty, insurance company in affiliates national annual average insurance savings by new customers surveyed him. twenty twenty potential savings, will very discounts very and are not available in all states, and situations from this therefore investigative reporting in p r ex this is reveal I'm letting in of last year when the pandemic was first taking a grip on the United States. Then President Trump closed, the border to asylum seekers citing title forty, two of the public health

the restriction remains in place under President Biden, but with a significant exception, unaccompanied migrant children are now being allowed to enter by unexplained. the rationale? A few months ago, the idea that I'm going to say I would never do come trial ends up with the border, we're just let him desert stand. You ever saw No previous administrations, Daddy's except Trump Markham. Do it when kids around They get sent to cells near the border, then to government sponsored shelters where they were to be released to family members. Were sponsors, kids spend months sometimes years at these shelters, and they can be secret place. It's hard for elected official to gain access, and reporters usually only get inside, do an occasional, highly scripted tours, but a few years ago reveals out of a god, oh heard, the police were entering these.

Others, because the staff were calling nine one one for help with discipline migrants. children were getting arrested and even being prosecuted as adults. Reveals immigration team started to track down more information on individual cases and the UN body worn camera footage of events, Sixteen year old boy and a sound seeker from Honduras being teased by deputy sheriff in Texas Outer in her courting partner, lore Morel for supported, on the video in June NEWS outlets. See an end to local stations in San Antonio picked up the story. Migrating haze fire bear County shares gently inside of it was an example of over policing in a play where there are no bystanders to record a place. That's supposed to be taken care of vulnerable children,

outer is you'll, be now pay out here. So you got this body camps footage. Can you walk through what happens It's about three p m in the afternoon on May twelve, twenty twenty, when Sheriffs Deputy Patrick Divers, gets out of his cruiser at the South West, keep us a blank. I shall turn in San Antonio Texas. The shelter is funded by the Office of Refugee resettlement and just to be clear, this isn't an ice detention centre. It's for children who show up, border alone you acting really crazy, can break his thought and obvious. It's already asked why you super aggressive. Yes, yes, angry issues from the start. We, Your deputy divers drawing a conclusion about the child and about his behaviour before he even lays eyes on him die.

personal stuff, her walk inside the shelter which looks kind of old and institutional and the staff, member hell's divers, something pretty important right away: Spanish. He understands English. This is the of many times, deputy divers, is told the boy doesn't speak English divers and the shelter staffer walk down the hallway its crowded with lots of worried. Looking staff members wearing surgical mass, some of which are pulled down other chance. What amount about resolving educational class. the boy is sitting on the leader of a toilet in a bathroom he's wearing a Navy Blue t shirt. His hair is tied up in a top not were not used.

His name because he's a minor and we want to protect his identity as a child seeking asylum in the? U S. you're wrong. The boys immediately defensive, and the thing you need to know is that at this point the boys been in this shelter for about a week, but he's been in the refuge The agency sponsored shelter system for nine months and shuffled around between five different shelters. You can hear shouting and cursing and saying what are you gonna do to me and he's like take me see if I care and Jeff member answers were not taking you anywhere, bill. Other voice, you here speaking in Spanish to the boy, is regard those he snapped us he's the interim shelter director here at the time and he didn't want to speak to us for the story:

The boy is saying to cease NATO's touch me and see what happens and season illnesses. Reassuring him he's not going anywhere. No one's gonna touch him. I want you to stay here. Thus he tells the child Harry what you're going to get them. few minutes are tense. The boy nods towards the deputy and says I'm scared of you because you have that gun, divers, Keep watching but doesn't intervene, wait till my partner gets here. He says we'll take care of this two and a half minutes later. Partner, Deputy, Harold Shiner does arrive, divers pulls his taser and moves towards the bathroom door ready. I'm gonna take this kid. He says

standard underscore. How little divers has done up to this point according to sheriff departments. Own guidelines he's largely stew, in the hallway this whole time, rarely speaking to the boy at all and when he does its to yell and English, he hasn't tried to calm the boy down now he's pointing his taser at the boy whose standing in front of the toilet looking down as he ties that draw string on his pants and a quick warning. For our listeners. This next part, it's pretty hard to hear stand. you weren't they Do shoots the boy with the taser, an impressive against his body over and over again as the child files to his knees, divers pulses. Electric

occurrence into the boys arm into his shoulder into his back and into his leg for thirty five seconds, the child screw, aims as the deputies handcuff him behind his back Listen to that is so hard, and I have a kid. The same age You can't imagine him in in this situation with a grown up this case, be the way they are trained. Is it well, if divers? Actually found cause to arrest the child. He supposed swiftly try to get them to cooperate. That's not what happened here divers doesn't employ the spanish language speakers around him to help him communicate with the boy

either way we never see the boy resisting throwing hands or physically, even attempting to stop divers in any way in barracks, Ernie sheriffs deputies are supposed to try to verbally de escalate the situation before resorting to force. If that doesn't work there supposed to use or physical strength first before turning to a taser. after the teasing. The boy is bent over breathing heavily and groaning, and he asked The question will hear him ask repeatedly over the next fifteen minutes with no answer we're you're taking me. Where are you taking me yeah, and remember AL at this point he's been in five different or our shelters in California, Virginia and Texas

They met on the move, any abide he says. Tell me what you're taking me deputy divers, doesn't answer instead, his partner, but he Schneider insults him. In stoop either because the boy after the team, in divers picks up the remaining cartridge parts from the bathroom floor loses seem fair hand to root out the taser darts that punctured the boys body. I'm not sure where the bullets and shelter staff member, begins telling Deputy Schneider about the boys mental health history. Depression. Adhd looks to stand for. with the various medications the boy is taking, including something for insomnia it striking

that is not until after he states that we hear the deputies ask about the boys mental health. Remember diabetes. What the Why do the hallway with a hand on his arm? The boy curses at this Walter itself in yells that he is being taken back to unload us? you walk out into the rain and toward the deputies cruiser the boy gets. back see tonight. You're stands outside the car and talks to staff member. I gotta go Trust me man The Lord Jesus Christ is my my time in remember. Remember, of a global pandemic. A few minutes later, Team of E m t shows up and asks why the child was taste.

Fighting firing resisting, but that's but the video shows there is no fighting. There is no resisting the teased check the boy out clear him to be transported. Inside the shelter cease. Nato's, the director tells divers at the boy allegedly broke placards on the wall, storage bins and to bed frames, but there's none to see, there's no evidence of destruction. The room is empty, and we want the angels removed a lot of damage to prevent him from running right out. I just have to stop you there, Are they saying there worried, he's gonna use a broken bed, framed to hurt himself yeah they're saying it in passing, like it's no big deal here, a variety of medications. He has trouble sleeping, and you can really here here,

the stress in this next piece of tape, witches from Could he Schneider's body cam Schneider is still standing outside the police cruiser an he's talking with a staff member about the boy in English, while the boy- whales in the background, even that phaser It was fighting terrorism away. We had to give that a few times you guys are young this one here, he's gonna be a hand for when it gets older he's already. A handful of seventeen Schneider can't even get his age right. The boy is sixteen and hear him here calling for his grandmother he's crying. He sang and worthless. Mama, I'm not worth anything. This whether we like that it is used

is know what to expect. Their body gets used me are talking about him like he is an animal he's young in strong he's, gonna be a handful when it gets older. That's that's like something you say about a wilful puppy or or wilful horse for something I just and then the shelter staffer he's come The boy, a delinquent liquid or what basis on no basis. We have no evidence that this child has ever been arrested before and the circumstances under which he's arrested at this shelter have been called into question throughout the footage we here not only the kitties, but also shelter, staffers dehumanize, a child like you, said talking about him as if he's an animal,

the time is, who was the boys led case manager at the time tells divers that, prior to being at this shelter, the boy was at a secure facility. secure, shelters, Dummy says or where they, where they send quote, and the security of the people who kill, but there's no, evidence at all that he's affiliated with a gang or has any criminal background. What we do have The answer is this boy's fragile mental state? Earlier the boy had asked He's going, and finally Burma's told him up, Thus it is simply not the juvenile detention centre. She said

ivory is getting ready to head out and Thomas tells him she's worried that the boy might hurt himself in the cruiser the rain. www out here, so it might be hard to hear worker protection I spoke. to them ass for the story and her tone with me on the phone was really depart. Sure from the dismissive tone that we here in this footage, She was so so sorry about what happened and she's. But she was shocked that a taser once used She would never call and I'm on one again in a similar situation with that promises come in, a little too late for the kid who was taste so why happens when he leaves the shelter divers

please the shelter with the boy in the back seat he too the music up and for the most part, it's quiet, but occasionally the boys speaks are lower, an hour and forty minutes after he, first arrived at the Casablanca shall turns divers and the boy arrive at Juvenile Hall Divers S, It's a boy toward a sinner block. Building boys, silent walking with his head down divers presses a button on an inter com outside a heavy metal door, I off. A prisoner. This boy for the country. As a refugee seeking asylum now he's a prisoner

the boy size. You can hear the faint clinking over freight train in the distance and the wind and the door open. And they walk inside? So what do we know about this boy? What's the story well We haven't been able to speak with him. It's nearly impossible for reporters to speak with migrant children in federal custody, but we did get a hold of his gun. Mother and undue. Does she? I don't wanna, be recorded, but she told me that when he was twelve, he began selling cocoanut water on the street to to help his family good bye. She said, gangs began hounding here. I'm trying to get him to pay taxes, he was beaten up pretty badly. You times and his money was stolen. She said, was terrified that he'd be killed, and so he decided to flee the country and head north at just fifteen years old. He got here before the pen

I make and now he's been intensity for two years. Where is he now after he was tat He was sent back to that secure facility in Virginia. Remember that and then back to a shelf in Texas and then transferred again to the Shiloh Residential Treatment Centre, which are listeners may remember, was forcibly dragging children from there He was sent to a therapeutic type of group poem in Washington State and now he's back at that Kenya Detention Centre. So what are the chances of this Boys gonna, be released from the shelter system. Kids are so post to be released as soon as possible. In fact, there's a federal settlement that requires this one's children turn. Eighteen, they can be picked up by ice, often on the morning of their birthday and placed into adult detention boy now has advocates who are worried. This could happen to him and are working to get him released ahead of his 18th birthday. I'm curious, if you have any idea

how this long term detention has affected. So the boy spend talking to his grandmother the whole time and he told me that he was always pretty sad after coming to the U S, but now he cries more on the phone his release here it being taste again- and she says They- He wants to be deported just to get out of the shelter system, but he's afraid of being sent back to undo the because he's afraid he'll be killed and since the tasting here also expressed a desire to end his life. So you and reporter Lore Morel showed the state to an adolescent psychologists. What does she have to say? Yeah her name?

His doctor Daisy Camacho Thomson she's a professor at Cal state outlay and she was like no. I absolutely don't think you need to call a police officer four times when a child can sues themselves wanting that could have been how all is, if they take a moment to breathe mindfulness meditation. You can have ten minutes, I'm gonna time you, so it still structured it still. You know, guided by the adult and then your to the child would have probably calmed down. I don't think you need. She said the Tuesday was just adding to the trauma. The boys already experienced. we also wanted to show the video to someone who has the power to do something about it. So we shared it with congressmen, quacking Castro he's from San Antonio we have talked a lot in this country about over policing in FR in situations, and this is clearly an example- over policing. With respect to asylum, seeking youth customers, so calling for a federal investigation. So what about the office of red?

Few g resettlement mean they're, the ones who actually fund because a blank, a shelter right, we tried to get them to come and how we offer? The agency and opportunity to watch the video many opportunities to watch the video weeks ahead of the public? We asked them for comment. We try to reach out to secretary heavier Maceda. He leaves the department that covers our are nothing no one from our are, who is ultimately responsible for the child care will talk to us. He was taste in their custody, but they haven't said a word about it. What about the deputy sheriff? Who take the child from what you know? Does the sheriff's office thing? He actually did something wrong. It's hard to say with certainty right now with clear is that they didn't know At this teasing even happened. It was an until

we provided more details like the address of the shelter the day, the deputies name that the sheriff's office actually think us. Providing this information and told us that they would be. Launching an internal affairs complaint in the interim divers has been placed, on administrative leave and his partner deputy Schneider retired from the force in March, so were you able to talk to the deputy? How does he explained would have, Well, we called then left messages, but he never responded. We do know that he was supposed to fill out a taser deployment form to explain what happened. We ve asked the sheriffs Department for it. But in June the Bare County district attorney sent a letter to the Texas attorney general to bar that disclosure of any more documents related to this incident and a member of illegal team. Alexander Gutierrez, she sent me

Attorney general, a Texas, a letter objecting to the DA's reasoning and explaining to the attorney general why the records should be released under Texas LAW and one more big point. I really want to make your out there not only trying to withhold additional records from us, but they ve asked us to destroy them. Yeah it's at the centre of this story. You know it's one thing: to read that a child got taste, but it's really other thing to watch it and to hear it framed by frame and we're not in the business of destroying records were in the business of publishing and I mean the truth be known, Thank you out things out. Those revealed out of the God. Our story was produced by Emily guarantee. this, isn't the only video that out and Laura uncovered next on reveal

First call nine when one when there is no emergency, I wondered if I get a jail, commissioner, this is reveal

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Dot com sash reveal to start a free trial. That's o d, o o dot com sash reveal from zero for investigative reporting of pr eggs. This is revealed a melody before the break. heard congressmen, Joaquin Castro of Texas, say young people who come to the? U S seeking asylum are being over policed, it's happening shelters where the Office of refugee resettlement for all our places, kids and while the government looks for family member or sponsored to take them in, reveals out of a ghetto and lower Morel Helen covered several cases where a call, to police, resulted in severe consequences for kids. Lord, as we now with more paler, hey out. Ok, so, first of all how many kids are ending up in police custody

So we found that, since twenty fourteen, at least eighty four children held at shelters were turned over to local law enforcement, we have also learned that most of these arrests happened in two counties in Texas at one shot, her alone, there were seven arrests that we found in the span of a single month, including one kid who is just twelve years old. How did you out of find this out. We, tat to sue the federal government we got. Three hundred thousand records which gave us information on every migrant child, are our custody for a period of six years and in those record's we found this path. earn of arrests, that shelters and we decided to file public records, request to learn more about these individual cases, which is how we got nine one one how recordings fur shelters in Brownsville, Texas, Providence alone about an hour. One call was about two kids getting into a

and one of them end up getting a black eye junior an ambulance, I know that we have a medical department here in another incident, a boy acted out because he was upset that he wasn't going to go on an outing. I wondered if I know I said here or pressure- and a third one. Two boys had got in a fight earlier that day will from tomorrow we're gonna send someone you in here that she surprise that police are actually going to come to the shelter. I thought these is that now I will give the floor to report it. thermodynamic reported over the phone I carried by our parliament We can't get me one minute. I can fix my supervisor. this incident? No one was even injured, but we found out through the police report, The shelter is management actually staff they have to press charges and pull

he's ended up arresting this boy, in these nine one one cause we are starting to hear how kids involved in even minor incidents can sometimes end up in police custody, but the case but I really want to talk about happens on November tenth, twenty eighteen, so Browns, police officers are called to a shelter cards, gossip body and its run by this nonprofit southwest keep programmes and its actual, one of the largest shelters in the United States. It actually used to be a Walmart scene. I can help you out One of the programme for fear tat. We ve got a martyr to your profitable sectors. I wouldn't call because earlier we had an accident would but- and this is a case that Sir four dead as an assaults and which would make you think right that it's an urgent matter, but instead they're calling nine one one about three hours later now keep in mind.

Now that you know the Office of Refugee resettlement policy about. This is really clear. That shelters should all call nine on one for true emergencies like a child whose run away from a shelter or who needs to be hospitalized or in the event of a child's death, so called hours after an incident happens, doesn't really seem like an emergency wonders incident occurred. Did you call it in Goma, so I would never called in November they were falling, so officers get there and their greeted at the entrance by the shelters assistant programme director. This guy named said, healed with eagerness I, for my part in this, audio from the officers body, cameras, Rodriguez, the two officers who arrives that around twelve o clock that day there was an altercation

twelve to seventeen year old boys, and here you can hear that there is this whole review process around the decision to call the police. video tour supervisors in the name of two there by the word and end up being convening an end. They merited it that, yes, we are gonna, be colleague tv. So that's why I haven't advice, as we took a little while longer be stopped immediately but actually owl according to a police report, the boy just walks away on his own biggest shows the officers video of what happened- it's blurry, but you can see that one boy grabs another boy from behind as they pass each other in the hallway telling of something, and he just so you know my first and get away about five seconds suing finish

in the video and while others some confusion over exactly what happens. We know that no one got her and the whole thing was over and just a few seconds through that guess goes to get the kids and meanwhile, these officers are standing in the lobby now and their sort of making a plan to file charges against. One of the kids but he said I was joking. Looks like you or six hours. Elsie the shelter staff bring out the boy who is grabbed and he comes into the lobby. He sits on the couch and one of the officers walks over to him and starts asking him. Questions were bleeding out names because these boys were minors, at the time a classical did anything happening.

Swiss, the other kids before he grabbed you and the boy says now, and then You know the officer says I've seen the videos are causing us all He asked em you got out of class and then what did he choke? You ended her and he starts to answer the officers, questions about what happens and Ultimately, you know he does say. Yes, he choked me yes at her. Yes, I want to press charges and do they talk to the other two they do, but it's really short. He if this side of the story and says that he was reacting to the other boy, insulting him and then there's

exchange between him and one of the officers and the officer tells him. You know if somebody insult you out there for them, a bracelet Bremen, you can't hit then went out of the baron Vivian this quarter. If they haven't you, that's one thing, because it self defense valuable affair. But if these say something to you and you had them. That's considered assaults, chemical weapon. you're arresting him for assault yeah, he was take back by a too he sort of whispers back assault, and it's hard to hear him, but you can tell that he has this moment where registers for him what's going on and remember, he doesn't have a parent or adults to really advocate for him. and before the officers leave, you know they're looking through. Paper work talking with the shelter staffing there's this confusion,

who has authority over the seventeen year olds. Sort of Turning over the kids, sort of like that, because, since you, all heard Ross ones rearrested if you mustn't arrest Sergio seventeen, seventeen- I if you guys, still have rights over, because I don't know how that works and The answer is, in fact clear: I mean it's really the federal government right that has all to move these kids around, but the government contracts with providers to take care of them the officers placed a seventeen year old in handcuffs and they take him out to the squad. Car are gonna, go so costly river.

I said in a very worrying grabs was more force on over here. Buildings are not just the pain fuzzy cemeteries gonna go to see jail. I don't know what happened. Because it comes back and reason. So it's striking to me about this last conversation is that nobody is really asking you know what does this mean for this kid for his immigration case, he's facing a misdemeanor charge and he's being looked into a jail where he's going to be placed with adults that are much older than him with his offer means you things like this happen all the time, if you were anywhere else this way not turn into such a big deal. I mean the kids might resolve, abide either going

several ways or apologizing is shaken. Hands me who knows, but because the police were called into this shelter. The consequences are just so much Yeah, that's true and in this case the consequences, are really starting to settle and for this boy is he wants to know more about this assault charge and the officer tells him. You know it's not really a serious charge that it could have been a lot worse if he'd actually hurt the other boy and the boy says to the officer. Can I ask you a question How long will I be in jail, but it's going to cost and the officer says probably just one night but the teenager asked him again. Are you sure, and the officer tells them he's not sure, It offers a model for a moment. It is difficult to put in a lot of money,

but that's what I'm watching, but by living in did he spend just one. I do know he whispered into the jail. He was issued, two thousand dollar bond and events. Billy. He ended up pleading guilty to this assault charge and he spent close to three. ants in jail and We know from jail records and court records is that ice immediately after he's booked into the jail they place a hold on him and by the time he's released, the boy had already turned eighteen records, we of also show that ice picked him up and he was ordered deported to undo DAS by an immigration judge that August. So because of this outbreak Asia and the lasted a few seconds. This boy goes from being considered and unaccompanied child to being deemed a criminal, the eyes of the? U S government.

This is my blowing all of this set off by like a conflict that lasted seconds in a hallway. And now this kid has been deported and looked at, as you say, as a criminal Yeah, oh, and we ask everyone involved in this case, for an interview, o r r, wouldn't talk to us southwest key, sent us a written statement that says they train their staff to DE escalate, difficult situations and that staff members respect The authority of officers called the shelters, but they didn't answer my question. is about why they called police to begin with the Brownsville police department were the only ones who agreed to speak about the case. There are spokesperson told me that the safety of the victim came first and since the victim said he felt pain. That was enough for an assault charge. When I told them about the outcome of

Stiens case. He acknowledged to me that this chain of events was unfortunate. So Laura. What are these arrests due to a child's chance are getting asylum? I mean this kid who likely came to? U S for protection and I'm going to jail, gets deported all because of a minor fight. I only want to call it a fight because it really wasn't that. But what does that mean for other kids who might be in the same situation. While this is the kind of thing that could although a child's all the way through the immigration system This is Miriam. A from a group called first focus on children, which advocates for federal policies that support families typically when incidents like this occur in our custody, their put into a child's over our file. She told me that or are housed

notify immigration and customs enforcement, whenever a child's gets arrested and instead In cases that means that the government could use the arrest to argue against a child's asylum claim, and does he have any insight about what this pattern of getting the police involved can tell us about how old are our manages, shelters for migrant youth, yeah, she said that from you know her perspective. It says a lot about the way that shelters like us up all our structured children are subject to a really regimented routine, there's not a lot of flexibility. The staff that work there are shift workers. Are they. men every few hours and there's no personal relationship built. What's between the child and an adult and owl he's her teens in a new country alone, and often they don't really have a lot of information about how long they ll be there or whether the government has found their family members and

can really cause a lot of trauma and anxiety for these kids. So it's not surprising that they might act out, but Shelter, providers should be equipped to care for these kids. They get federal funding. South was key alone, gets hundreds of millions of dollars from the government to run its shelters and that's where Mary and others that I spoke to said that shelter providers should be training their staff to handle these situations without having to call nine one one. Laura thanks. So much those reviews, lore morale. Our story was produced by Rowan more Gary. When we back will hear about. What's happened since Laura, and now this first story was published, will also talk about the Biden Administration and what's changed under bite in we found it a lot harder to get any information listening to reveal from the centre for investigative reporting and p eggs,

reveal, is brought to you by progressive. We think more about how to tighten up your budget. These days, drivers who saved by switching to progressive, save over seven hundred dollars on average and customers can qualify for an average of six discounts when they sign up a little off your rate. Each month goes a long way. Yet a quote today had progressive dotcom, progressive casualty, insurance company in affiliates national annual average insurance savings by new customers surveyed in twenty twenty,

central savings will very discounts very and are not available in all states and situations. A loop aches risk on the Roger, a senior radio reporter and producer here at the open, we're a nonprofit news and we rely on support from listeners like you to become a member text. The word reveal two hundred and forty seven, four thousand seven hundred and forty seven standard data rates apply and you can text stop anytime again. Text reveal two hundred and forty seven, four thousand seven hundred and forty seven and thank you for supporting the show from the centre for investigative reporting and prx. This is revealed I'm a lesson we spent the less, our giving you a rare glimpse inside government shelters for refugee, kids and report, this law, morale and out of a god? Oh, are both here to talk with me now about their reporting, so you to turn of dozens of cases of

least being called and shelters working. to come here seeking asylum or criminalized by the system, whose responsible here I think there are so many institutions and agencies that overlap in this situation I mean, first of all, you have the administrations rate, the Obama administration, the Trump Administration and now there's the bite and administration, who, I think, it's incumbent upon them to investigate what happened to these kids and then you has this refugee agency o r r, that overseas this huge network of shelters and Those shelters are run by private contractors and then, on top of all that, you have this added layer of local law enforcement, who have the discretion the end of the day to decide who their arresting or not out. You been reporting on the treatment of migrant kids for more than a decade across three.

The administrations- and I know you reporting- has highlighted abuse and mistreatment in all of them, but I'm curious about what's changed during that time, from Obama to Trump and now Biden. Frankly, for me. As a rapporteur. I think a lot of the policies and practices that result in which children experience from the moment they arrive at the border. It's kind of sick local happens over over and over again. You know out the last time that I was talking to you on air. It was about a child who'd been in custody for seven years. Is she had been separated from her family at the border. When she was just a kid. She was ten years old that was under Obama, and she remain bouncing around from sheltered to shelter through two different administrations for seven years Harrison and finally, just pleaded to be deported back to undo us, and

a lot of what happens? It's not like, oh you're a child in your in custody, suddenly there's a new president, and you're out in the world. That's not at all what happen I think it's better to understand it as a system which can be swayed and can ultimately be changed in administration, should that administration a really take that challenge on the bridge. and was running for office. He promised really big changes. Have we seen any of those changes come into effect by then ran on this idea that he was going to create this humane immigration system. Out- and I have been known- Seeing some changes in some of the policy is left behind by tromp. There is also then changes and the use of language more humane language bite in ordered immigration agencies to stop using terms like alien or illegal alien from their community.

chance with the public and the press as well as their internal documents may actually still have some copies of older press releases and factual from the Trump Administration, where you would see the term Benito alien children, so so that is another difference that we're seeing yet, and there have been some changes to the policy. and some material changes for the kids that are seeking asylum, but the conditions that their being placed in art, sub par, to say the least, and so the top administrators change, but those A day managers, the people that are really running this bureaucracy and the people that are on the ground that pretty much stays the same and I think it's also worth noting that this might be really surprising. It feels surprising to me under I didn't we found it a lot harder to get any information out of our are out of the Office of Refugee resettlement, at least during the trumpet.

Illustration we'd have these emails back and forth. They never agree to. in our view on tape, but we could at least communicate with them. The trunk administration was Unusually, opening candid about its harsh treatment of migrant children out of the policies the trunk put in place, what's had a lasting impact. I think, first shirt: family separation will always be the biggest piece of trumps legacy on immigration and just to remind people of what happened, Then what it means out- and I both reported on this back in the spring of twenty eighteen, when the prompt administration started it's what they called the zero tolerance policy and what that man was that essentially asylum,

seekers immigrants coming to the border, they would be criminally prosecuted, so parents who came with their children, the parents would be put an adult attention and the children would be separated from them and placed within within the show. Her system during this this period. I think it was between April and June around three thousand children, were separated from their parents and to this day a out. Some of these children are still separated from their parents in many cases because the parents were deported while their children remain here in the. U S, so the Biden administration is still responding to the fall of that policy. Well, since the new administration needs to address not bitin, did start letting migrant cha and who are seeking asylum into the system. He may strong humanitarian case for that, and that was something that was expected and I think that that's a good

I think these are children better fleeing horrific conditions. Something conditions that were partially made by the United States in those countries through different civil wars and climate change in all kinds of programmes. So that's important, but I dont think that this administration, properly paired for the amount of children that we're gonna come in? I think any reporter. Any immigration reporter could tell you. Oh yeah, whole bunch, kids are gonna. Come this year, and the vitamins administration didn't prepare properly. For that, and so there pudding, children in soft, cited tents by the hundreds and milk Terry bases or in in a fair ground or in a convention centre. Those are not place is that, are licensed to hold children. Therefore, they are not inspected by the state. So we don't even have that level of oversight and no one should be living like that, and yet by the most recent count, we ve got about fifteen

I was in migrant children in the custody of the federal government, and that doesn't have to be the case. So what do we do? Not know yet what are the both of you watching for well This administration, I think, is a little more responsive to public pressure For me as rapporteur, I am just trying to get the public to care about migrant kids again as little human beings that deserve a basic level of respect and care. You know for present I didn t certainly cared for the population while he was campaigning. he has shown some basic good faith efforts. It does mean something that children are being allowed in, but He also gotta make account in terms of the way that kids are being cared for, and so think we're looking out for first signal was that there is an actual intend to change the system as it exists to hire competent care. Take

whose, within these shelters to improve their rights, ratification rates and how fast kids are destroyed it's too sponsors. I think we'll get up a clear picture in the coming years by that sweat, that's what I'm keeping an eye out for an I'll just out of specific. Www too there's one case that you ve been following: a migrant childs being taste. I think for sure will be following on that internal affairs investigation to see what else it can shed but light on and in terms of what happened to that child that day and whether the sheriff's office takes any sort of responsibility, for it will be interested to know if there is an inspector Earl Investigation, that reviews this is well oh, and I think We are still hopeful that perhaps the Office of refugee resettlement and each of us will finally look into what

we're we're, reporting on and talk to us about what's happening and what changes, if any, they're making to make sure that this never happens again. louder and Lord. Thank you so much for your story, things out things out I leave the decision this week. Show is actually kind. Roger Savior, rigorous and Casey minor addition. Andy Donoghue is our digital thanks to Patrick. Those are the Vienna L. These Alexander Gutierrez David, a rigorous Melissa Louis for their help. With this reporting Vittoria Bear Nevsky is our general Council, our production Manders Amy, the great Mustafa original scorn sound designed by the dynamic dual J Breeze Mister Jimmy Briggs, Fernando my man. Your router then help this week from Steven Reign. in clear, see no moment or did you producer. Sarah Merk Interim CEO is any stable swimming. Agile walls are interim editor in chief and our executive produced Kevin Sullivan, RC, music

by Colorado, lightning support for it, those provided by the Raven David Local Foundation, the John Dene Catherine Timor guards. Foundation the jobs it Logan Family Foundation for Foundation, the housing, Simons Foundation, the helm and foundation, the democracy fund and we as much foundation reveal physical production of the centre for investigative reporting and people are Ex outlets, and remember there's always to the store. every day. There's so much news and headlines are sold, fickle, innocent

I will give you like word drowning in a sea of questions. Is the true the really out their king and mix vaccines in general? What can we expect this hurricane visa? How has covered impacted alcohol consumption over the last year, but one were wondering about questions like these. We two separate fact- well you're, not being injected with chips are being injected with. Is this incredible scientific breakthrough that keeps us safe? That's where we come in from the previous series Nova. This is Nova now by weekly podcast digging into the science behind the headlines. I'm a look Patel a physician, a medic, journalists and an all around loud mouth and the name of science. On this podcast, we pass the MIKE to brilliant people to get their perspectives in insights on pressing science topics that are impacting us right now. The science is ever more pervasive and the courts, where were you ve got learn, was how best to deal with

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